Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
Source
Participants
Main
peter slen
cspan47:43
Appearances
adam schiff
sen/d01:32
brian lamb
cspan01:34
donald j trump
admin01:15
kevin hassett
admin01:01
pete hegseth
admin00:54
y
yvette clarke
rep/d01:00
Clips
barack obama
d00:02
bill clinton
d00:02
b
bill gertz
00:07
george h w bush
r00:02
g
george stephanopoulos
abc00:08
george w bush
r00:04
g
gwen moore
rep/d00:12
j
jeremy brown
00:02
k
kevin p miller
00:10
lauren chen
00:06
michael flynn
r00:10
tom homan
admin00:00
willie nelson
00:16
Callers
angela in florida
callers00:09
doug in south carolina
callers00:03
errol darts in unknown
callers00:08
jane in washington
callers00:30
justin in texas
callers00:33
michael in hawaii
callers00:07
sharon in pennsylvania
callers00:09
spacey in arizona
callers00:04
victoria in montana
callers00:04
?
Voice
Speaker
Time
Text
Start Doing Some Serious Praying00:09:20
unidentified
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Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll take your calls and comments live.
Then, the Wall Street Journal's Siobhan Hughes previews the coming week in Congress, including the latest on Republicans' budget reconciliation efforts.
And Schuyler Woodhouse of Bloomberg News previews the week ahead at the White House and News of the Day.
Also, the Cato Institute's Eric Smith discusses his views on DEI programs and efforts by the Trump administration to dismantle them.
And good morning and thanks for joining us on C-SPAN's Washington Journal.
For the next three hours, we'll talk about what's going on in Washington.
And most importantly, we'll be hearing your voices.
Now, we're going to start off this morning a little philosophically.
That's a tough assignment, I know, for 7 a.m. on a Monday morning, but I think you're up to it.
There's been a lot of social and economic and political changes going on all over the world right now.
A lot of uncertainty for some people.
And are you feeling unsettled?
Is what we want to ask you this morning.
Are you feeling unsettled?
And if so, why?
Do you consider these changes to be course corrections?
Is it chaotic?
What's your view?
Call in and let us know.
202 is the area code for all of our numbers.
737-0001 for Republicans.
Democrats, call in at 202-737-0002.
Independents, your number is 628-0205.
And once again, thanks for being with us.
You can also contact us via social media.
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Please include your first name and your city if you would.
And we are on Facebook and on X. Just remember, at C-SPAN or at C-SPAN, WJ are our handles.
And again, thanks for being with us this morning.
We're asking the question, are you feeling unsettled because of some of the political, economic, and social changes going on in the world today?
There's tariff policy, there's a reordering of the federal government, there's personal finance and retirement issues, China tensions, political protests, all that stuff is going on.
We just want to get your view on it, whether it's making you unsettled or if you're feeling, you know, that these are necessary changes, course corrections, that type of thing.
We'll be getting to your calls in just a minute.
We want to start off this morning, though, with the front page of the Wall Street Journal.
Stock market today is already down about a thousand points in the futures.
Asian stocks plunged as Trump tariff turmoil deepens is their headline.
Well, here was President Trump yesterday on Air Force One.
unidentified
And those tariffs next year will make us $1 trillion.
And that was President Trump flying back to Washington on Air Force One yesterday.
Arlene has texted in to us.
I am retiring at the end of the month.
Unsettled.
Doesn't fully describe the intensity of my feelings.
Let's hear from Andrew calling in from Virginia, a Democrat.
Hi, Andrew.
unidentified
Speak with you this morning.
Yes, sir.
I've never been so upset, so distraught over the direction of this country onto this lunatic that we have as our president.
The world, especially this country, seems to be diving into an abyss.
This man has single-handedly destroyed every democratic principle, every constitutional law that we have forged in the past couple hundred years.
He has destroyed so much, regardless of what Republicans say, along with the Republican enablers, have enabled the Russians, the Chinese, to basically we are at the most vulnerable point in our history, and the Russians and the Chinese are ecstatic.
Andrew, what do you think about the 79 million Americans who voted for President Trump in 2024?
unidentified
Well, to be honest, they were suckered.
They fell for the lives of a con man.
These people who voted because over the price of eggs, bacon, or whatever, they'll be lucky if they're not living out of their car in another four years.
What are some of those issues that could add up to a bad storm?
unidentified
The economy is going to crash because of greed.
Everybody's greedy.
Money is the root of all evil.
The economy is going to crash.
The global warming is going to continue.
You're not going to stop it.
It's in the Bible.
If you're not sure about the future, just pick up the book, wipe off the dust, and read, and it'll tell you everything you need to know about what's coming.
Hey, Ed, do you consider yourself to be a populist?
unidentified
I wouldn't think so.
I think what we should do is for the benefit of the country.
And I think he is doing it.
Longer term, the eradication of our industrial base.
Look at what has happened in the military sphere.
China now has the largest Navy.
I don't think they have the most capable Navy, but they have the largest Navy in the world, so that's manufacturing.
Now, it's done good things.
The economists would call convergence a good thing, which is where the developed countries grow at a slower rate than the undeveloped countries so that the wage gap, I mean, across the world, poor people are getting out of poverty.
I think like 5 billion people over the last 20 years have gotten from very poor countries to good.
The United States has grown at 2% versus the world growing at 4% and the aggressive countries, dynamic countries, growing at 7%.
So it doesn't take long before many countries pass us.
We think of ourselves as the richest country in the world, but this is not the case.
On a per-person basis, many countries have passed us.
And if we continue to grow at 2 percent and the rest of the world grows at 4 percent or 7 percent, many more countries will pass us.
Just to give you a little sense here, in his first term, President Trump signed 220 executive orders.
So far, he has signed 111 in the first 80-plus days of his administration.
President Obama in eight years signed 276 executive orders, and Joe Biden in four years signed 162.
Next call is Antone in Florida, Independent Line.
Hi, Antone.
unidentified
Good morning.
Very, very unsettled.
There are 73 million baby boomers who currently live on Social Security.
And now their retirement via IRAs, the stock investments, are being lost due to the Trump administration.
The stress on seniors are killing them.
And I personally lost a loved one due to that fact.
Seniors 80 years old, 1946, the baby boom generation, do not have time on their side to recover.
And honestly, I feel seniors that are dying from the stress of what has been created for them should be considered, like anything else, a wrongful death.
And they should be suing the Trump administration and make them accountable.
I just heard earlier, $23 million to bail out farmers in his previous administration.
What about $23 million to bail out seniors to save their lives?
Seniors have been hit by the 208 housing collapse.
Seniors have been hit by COVID.
Seniors have been hit by hurricanes.
And now seniors are being hit by the Trump administration with tariffs now costing them their retirement again, threatening their Social Security and Medicare on top of that.
There is something really, really wrong with this picture, and seniors need to band together and fight this administration before it ends up killing them.
Yeah, and that's why being an independent is important to me, because this thing, I'm a Republican, this thing, I'm a Democrat, and it doesn't matter whether what I'm doing is right or wrong, has got to go.
What has to matter is the issue at hand.
And the issue at hand here is we're killing senior citizens in this country based on what is going on up in Washington.
Joel Pollack in Breitbart writes about political realignment a little bit.
And here's his most recent article, Blue State Blues.
Trump is the greatest Democrat president since FDR.
President Donald Trump is the best Democrat to have held the office since FDR introduced the New Deal and fought the Second World War.
Obviously, Trump is a Republican and not a Democrat, at least not officially and not anymore.
But his policies are those that many Democrats used to champion and that many would still embrace, were it not for the fact that Trump and the Republicans are the ones backing these policies today.
Take, for example, Trump's reciprocal tariffs, announced on April 2nd, Liberation Day in the Rose Garden.
Until the Clinton era, union-friendly Democrats like Dick Gebhardt would regularly argue for tariffs and against deals like NAFTA.
Both of the major parties, in fact, were split on trade issues, but Democrats tended to lean toward protectionism.
Now they denounce Trump's tariffs predicting doom.
Or take peace with Russia and Ukraine.
Democrats, who long had a soft spot for communism, were easy to parody as pro-Russia during the Cold War.
When President Barack Obama came into office, he adopted an appeasement strategy toward Russia that predictably failed.
But after Russia made a fool of Obama by invading Crimea and after Democrats convinced themselves that Russia had stolen the 26 election for Trump, they turned into Russia hawks.
Trump, who was far tougher on Russia in his first term than either his predecessor or successor, campaigned in 2024 on ending the war with Ukraine after several years of stalemate.
Democrats have strenuously opposed his efforts to drag the two sides to the negotiating table, preferring instead to see the war continue apparently without end.
It is Trump, Joel Pollock in Breitbart writes, who has lifted the banner of peace once carried by Eugene McCarthy and RFK Sr.
That is in Breitbart.
We are asking you this morning if you are feeling unsettled with all of the political, economic, and social changes going on in the world.
We're going to put the numbers up on the screen.
202 is the area code, 737-0001 for Republicans, 737-0002 for Democrats, and 628-0205 for independents.
So I'm very, Bill, beyond the tariffs, when you look at the reordering of international relations, you know, U.S. and Europe, perhaps, the reordering of the federal government, China tensions, do you find those things unsettling?
unidentified
Nope.
I don't.
Not a bit.
Not a bit.
It takes a tough nation and a tough man to run it to get things done.
You know, we've got so much fat.
I mean, on everything that's got to do with the government.
I worked a contract store dealing with the government.
As President Donald J. Trump said, the operation is over, and now it's recovery time.
We have to go through this in order for our country to survive.
Our previous financial situation was not sustainable.
One more text.
This is Larry in New Jersey.
I feel extremely unsettled about the evisceration of the Internal Revenue Service and other important government agencies, including the military, and of the ability in the future to hold a fair election of any kind.
Next call is Joseph, Florida, Republican.
Joseph, good morning to you.
unidentified
Thank you very much for taking my call.
I've been a Republican my entire life, except for two times.
Both times, I did not vote for Donald Trump.
I had business dealings with him.
It is the most ridiculous, corrupt situation.
This person shouldn't be doing what he's doing.
But let me give you two real-time situations here, and I hope Republicans listen up because it's coming to your front doorstep.
One is personal.
My daughter has a very acute Lyme disease.
She was buying a, beside the prescription drugs, she was taking a supplement which was very effective.
It's called Bullock.
You can look it up.
She was able to buy it in the United States 60 pills for around $44.
Mr. Trump's tariffs, it's a Canadian pharmaceutical company.
She can no longer buy it in the United States.
It has to be bought in Canada.
And now the 60 pills is $184, a bottle.
So, Republicans, it's coming to your doorstep.
The second thing is, I play golf in Florida in a very Republican area.
There's about 40 of us.
Let me tell you something.
This 47% approval rating, watch what's going to happen next.
A couple of situations.
We never talk politics in this golf group.
It is all about politics, and it's all, I'm done with Trump.
The meal in the coffin was when this guy was out playing golf, and we have veterans in that group, and those soldiers were buried the other day.
The second thing is they have had it.
They are saying to us in conversations now, we have one golfer who said that he was going to, he's helped pay his two grandchildren for college, and now his money has been decimated, and he's now going to tell those children that they're going to have to take out loans.
This is the reality, Republicans.
And I beg you, Republicans, it's coming to your doorstep.
And please, if you think you're independent, and I find interesting is the people who say I'm comfortable.
Those people are probably independently, they don't have a lot of debt and things like this.
That's not the majority.
The average person in this country, retiree, has around $200,000 in savings.
That was two weeks ago.
Okay?
That ain't happening now.
Okay?
So I really, really beg the Republicans, before it affects your children and your grandchildren, to wake up.
I live in a Republican area, and it's right next door is a Democrat area.
So I have Republican and Democratic friends, and I'm feeling settled and unsettled.
First, I'm feeling unsettled because we're not getting the truth out for what Doge is saying.
I said, you don't see on these, I converse to different stations.
They don't bring up, you never see the Doge database.
You never see the Doge database with the savings coming out and what's happening.
Everybody knows, both sides of the fence know there's waste fraud and abuse.
But if it comes knocking on their door, they seem to have a problem with it.
Another thing that bothers me is we're, you know, I'm an independent.
Sometimes I vote Democrat.
Sometimes I vote Republican.
And you know what?
I'm an American.
We're all Americans.
This president, whether you voted for him or not, is our president.
He had the majority votes.
He took all the other votes.
I'm sorry.
I'm forgetting the name.
The electoral votes.
We stand behind them.
We're Americans.
Do you hear other countries objecting about what's going on?
You know, Americans, we're the stupid Americans that pay for everything.
I hate tariffs.
I hate tariffs.
Why doesn't everybody get off the tariffs?
Why don't we say to the Europeans, to the Asians, to the people across the world that have been ripping us off for 50 years, all of us drop the tariffs.
If Trump, for these people calling in saying Trump is wrong about tariffs, then you must hate the tariffs and the value-added taxes that the Europeans in other countries go.
Let's go zero tariffs.
And we're Americans.
You stand by your president.
We have our differences at the House, inside the House.
We have our differences, and we can argue.
But when you go outside our house, we're together.
We're Americans and we stick together and we stand by our president.
And that's the way it should be.
None of this stuff here.
We're cutting ourselves off at the feet.
Our president, we're making our president's job harder than it has to be.
I think people have seen their retirement savings on fire, and there he is out on the golf course.
That may end up being the most enduring image of the Trump presidency: that is the president out on a golf cart while people's retirement is in flames.
The Treasury Secretary is saying that people aren't looking at where the retirement savings are.
Maybe he doesn't have to.
He's got the wealth he doesn't have to.
Maybe the president with his wealth doesn't have to.
But what I'm hearing from Californians is those that have just retired, those are on the eve of retiring, they're terrified of this.
And I hope and pray we stay out of recession.
But if we head into a recession, it will be the Trump recession.
He will completely own it.
This is a completely self-destructive economic act that he's engaged in.
And it's not just the tariffs.
It's also the freezing of funds, the firing of people, the alienation of our allies.
In California, I'm hearing from farmers who still haven't recovered market share from the tariffs during the first Trump administration.
I'm hearing from people in the tourist industry.
You have people from other countries now who don't want to come here, most particularly Canadians.
I'm hearing from others, small business people, who are telling me that Canadians are saying, don't send us any more your products.
In fact, we're going to send you back what you've already sent us.
It's the whole range of Trump economic policies that are really hurting people.
38% of California voted for President Trump in the last election.
That's kind of the top line for Republicans in that state.
unidentified
Yeah.
Well, Biden only had about a 27% rating at the time, too.
So my 10% that I'm unsettled about, and I watched that thing on Saturday, and I was unsettled that all these people were ranting and raving against Trump personally, but none of them had a solution to the $36 trillion deficit.
And that's really unsettling.
You can go and you can tear down Trump all you want, but you better come up with a better idea to reduce this deficit and to pay down the national debt.
60 Years of Surfing00:03:07
unidentified
If you can't do that, you're just spouting hot air.
You can say everything in the world bad about Trump, but if you don't have a better plan, nobody's going to listen.
I'm 77 years old, and I started in the lumber business.
I started as a yard worker stacking lumber, and I ended up working into management.
I ended up going to a huge company, Warehauser Company, which is a brilliant company.
I ended up managing as a general manager of a wholesale lumber outlet, and then I was hired in L.A., and I managed one of the top five lumber yards in L.A.
I was shipping a million and a half feet a week.
I had 60 employees, and I ended up from being a poor boy through corporate, climbing the corporate ladder.
I ended up, I got a million-dollar house, and I got a million dollars in the bank.
And so I surfed, and I worked hard all my life, and I surfed hard all my life, and that's what I do.
Are you going surfing today?
I'm going sailing today.
I'm too old to surf.
I gave up surfing when I was 72, but I didn't want to drown.
But I'm a sailor now.
I got a 31-foot boat down in the marina, and I've been very successful in life because I'm really good at economics.
I'm really good at the commodity markets.
And I'll tell you right now: if you have any money, start buying in the stock market because earnings season is coming around, and you're going to see a lot of these companies posting really strong earnings.
So the private sector is not affected by it's the government jobs that are being cut, not the private sector jobs.
So, beyond my reading Breitbart this morning, Renee, what else are you unsettled about?
unidentified
About where our country's going, how Russia, everything came to true, came true about them turning our people against each other.
And it's so sad.
I mean, they've used the religion and the news, politics, you know.
Usually, our mainstream media, even though Fox News is seen by more people than anybody, even though they aren't a news, how they don't have to, you know, have facts.
And it's just sad.
And I feel sorry for people that have been led down that path and don't know what's coming because I unfortunately probably watch too much news around the world.
And I feel like I see what's coming, and it's really sad.
And I don't know how we get out of it unless we get a Congress that works.
But they're all part of it, they all came from Fox News.
21 people in our administration came from Fox News.
From the Washington Post this morning, Trump, Team Trump, defends tariffs as bipartisan opposition grows, markets slide.
Trump administration officials blitz television networks on Sunday to defend the president's massive tariffs that have caused a sell-off in the stock market and triggered recession fears, arguing that the import taxes are already forcing dozens of countries to come to the bargaining table.
Well, Kevin Hassett, who served in the first Trump administration, is now the National Economic Council director, was on this week on ABC.
On the one hand, you're saying that the countries are really angry and they're going to have to retaliate.
On the other hand, you're saying that consumers are going to bear the costs that it's going to drive inflation up.
But if U.S. consumers are bearing the costs, there's no reason for the countries to be angry.
So the fact is the countries are angry and retaliating.
And by the way, coming to the table, I got a report from the USTR last night that more than 50 countries have reached out to the president to begin a negotiation.
But they're doing that because they understand that they bear a lot of the tariff.
And so I don't think that you're going to see a big effect on the consumer in the U.S. because I do think that the reason why we have a persistent long-run trade deficit is these people have very inelastic supply.
They've been dumping goods into the country in order to create jobs, say, in China.
And George, also, I promise you, I'll answer your questions directly about filibusters.
So I'll stop with that.
unidentified
Well, where do you base your conclusion that you're not going to see an increase in prices?
Just about every economist who's looked at this said you are going to see an increase in prices, including Goldman Sachs, including J.P. Morgan, including the chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Well, there might be some increase in prices, but the fact is that if there were going to be a heavy burden on the U.S. consumer, then this trade deficit that for 30 years we've seen really since China entered the WTO would be something that would have gone down.
I'm sure for calling in, and we appreciate your time this morning.
Now, if you can't get through on the phone lines and you want to talk about whether or not you're feeling unsettled by some of the political and economic and social changes going on in the world, you can also send a text message, 202-748-8003.
If you send that text message, please include your first name and your city if you would.
Here's a text message.
This is an X.
This is a tweet.
Are you feeling unsettled?
And this person, Cloud Spitter, it looks like, or Splitter, says no, just trying to figure out which stock I'm going to buy at these prices.
I do have concerns about the next generation and all these new implementations he's putting in.
He's making us vulnerable in so many ways.
I hear now that he's gotten rid of the cybersecurity people, which means they can, you know, invade our internet, invade our hospitals.
And, you know, this is why is he firing so many needed people and replacing them with so many incompetent people, or maybe not even replace them at all?
I don't understand this.
I mean, we have so many open ways that things can be done to this country.
You know, they put, you know, military secrets out there on the internet or accessible to social media.
And how do normal people see this man as working for our government?
People are using his words as need and as God.
They don't want to pursue anything other than what he says.
This man is not reliable.
He's not a reliable resource for truth.
You saw it in the debates when he lied about people eating cats and dogs.
He does not tell the truth.
So what makes you think he's going to tell the truth about the status of our country?
All you people out there that are scared to death, they're paper losses.
unidentified
Don't sell if you're scared.
And like many people say, now's a good time to buy.
The market's going to continue to drop for a little while longer.
There's going to be great buying opportunities for people that have brains.
And as far as on the world stage goes, these tariffs, they've already brought 25 countries to the bargaining table to zero their tariffs against America.
It's working.
It's going to be painful for a while.
And I've called in before, and I mentioned this several months ago that it's going to be painful.
But it's the only way to save our country from bankruptcy.
And I originally grew up in California, like the surfer called in from Ventura.
I grew up in Seal Beach.
I was on the high school surf team, the college surf team.
I've lived all over the world.
One of my favorite places to live is in Indonesia.
Everybody's heard of Bali, of course.
There's a little island down there that I also building another retirement home down there at a little place called Roti, which is off the Timor coast.
What's your message to people who aren't billionaires and perhaps are living on their social security and living with Medicaid, et cetera?
unidentified
Well, they've repeated over and over and over.
They're not going to touch Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security.
And we have to make these dramatic course change.
We have to make a dramatic course change.
Otherwise, we are heading for the dollar is going to collapse.
The country's going to go all these programs, these 1,100 agencies in D.C., in five or six years, if we don't make major changes, they'll cease to exist.
So if you still have comments you want to make about being feeling unsettled by world events, get ready for that.
That's a little bit later.
But coming up next is Siobhan Hughes.
She's with the Wall Street Journal a little bit later then.
Eric Thomas is going to join us and he is with the Cato and he's going to be Eric Smith, I apologize.
And he's going to be talking about DEI.
So that's what's coming up this morning on The Washington Journal.
unidentified
This week on the C-SPAN Networks, the House and Senator in session.
The House plans to take up the revised Republicans 2025 budget resolution following its passage by the Senate.
Also, Jamison Greer, the United States Trade Representative, testifies on the president's agenda after he imposed tariffs on several U.S. partners.
First, on Tuesday, before the Senate Finance Committee, and then on Wednesday before the House Ways and Means Committee.
Watch live this week on the C-SPAN networks or on C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app.
Also, head over to c-SPAN.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on demand anytime.
C-SPAN: Democracy Unfiltered.
If you ever miss any of C-SPAN's coverage, you can find it anytime online at c-SPAN.org.
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These points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos.
This timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in Washington.
Scroll through and spend a few minutes on C-SPAN's points of interest.
C-SPAN's Student Cam competition challenged middle and high school students nationwide to create documentaries with messages to the new president.
Our panel of judges evaluated over 1,700 thought-provoking student films on their use of multiple perspectives.
C-SPAN awarded $100,000 in total cash prizes, and our grand prize of $5,000 goes to Dermot Foley, a 10th grader from Montgomery Blair High School in Silver Spring, Maryland.
Congratulations to all our winners.
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What this does is it gives instructions to different committees as to how much in spending cuts they are supposed to achieve.
It's going to tuck something else in there, instructions for a debt ceiling increase, and then some special instructions to tax writing committees for how much they can cut in taxes.
And what is the outlook for this budget resolution, which is not a budget?
unidentified
This is as bumpy and rocky as it gets in the House.
And you already started to see that yesterday at a conference call that House Speaker Mike Johnson put together.
My Wall Street Journal colleague Olivia Beavers got inside of that, and there were a lot of concerns being expressed about the structure of this bill.
And there are two different wings.
Well, the loudest voices on that call were really the fiscal conservatives who looked at what the Senate passed and said, wait a minute, we noticed that you are instructing the Senate committees to cut spending by $4 billion.
And we're not convinced that we can actually support this.
There is another coalition of Republicans, and they've been a bit silent, but I would expect to hear from them by midweek who are terribly concerned about what this means for the Medicaid program and cuts to the Medicaid program.
Because buried inside this budget resolution is a number, $880 billion.
That is how much the House Energy Committee is supposed to come up with in cuts.
And guess what that committee oversees?
Medicaid.
And as Senator Susan Collins put it to us, the only way you can get to that level of cuts is if you go after Medicaid.
And that was why she voted against the budget resolution over the weekend.
Well, that's one issue that the Congress is bringing up this week.
We're going to be talking about some other issues as well.
With Siobhan Hughes of the Wall Street Journal, numbers are up on the screen.
If you want to dial in and talk about what's coming up in Congress or how Congress is doing, 202-737-0001 for Republicans, 202-737-0002.
For Democrats and Independents, you can call in at 202-628-0205.
We'll also put up our text number and our social media accounts.
So, in case you want to participate that way, you're more than welcome to.
Well, so much of the talk this morning and the past couple of days, since April 2nd, has been about tariffs.
Has there been reaction from the Republicans?
Have you seen splintering from the Trump side with the Republicans?
unidentified
So, we absolutely have seen splintering from the Republicans.
And it's not overt.
Nobody is poking a direct finger in Donald Trump's eye, but it's unmistakably there.
And we see it in a couple of different ways.
Number one, we saw Chuck Grassley from Deep Red Iowa come out and unveil a bill that would basically say within 60 days, Congress has to approve any tariffs.
And then you saw Don Bacon on the House side say he was going to introduce a companion measure.
And so, what that tells us is that some Republicans already want to put Trump on a leash and give him a timeframe, give him 60 days.
Beyond that, you are hearing some voices now step out and express concerns.
We saw Ron Johnson in an interview with, I believe, a CBS reporter, express some concerns.
Ted Cruz from Texas, who has a very big voice because of a podcast he has, sort of said 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
But if this goes on for too long and there's a recession, that is a problem.
And boy, is there going to be a backlash in the 2026 elections.
And to put a fine point on this, you don't hear Republicans challenge the president that openly.
And so when Republicans are out there making these arguments, that is a big deal.
Siobhan Hughes, I'm old enough, unfortunately, to remember the 90s and Dick Gebhardt, the Democratic leader, protectionist when it comes to trade and tariffs and anti-NAFTA.
It's really kind of flipped, hasn't it?
unidentified
Yes and no.
So rhetorically, at this leadership level, it has flipped.
And you are hearing Democrats talk about inflation, about the damage to Americans' pocketbooks.
And all of that is real and true.
But I will also say I was on a call last week with Debbie Dingell from Michigan, who did talk about how she supported tariffs generally, that it's a way to bring manufacturing back to the United States.
But, but, but there's a big caveat here.
What Democrats, the ones who are still embracing tariffs, say is this does not seem to be thought through because if you want to bring manufacturing back to the United States, that is not a short process.
There is permitting, there is locating.
And they say this is a process that at its very, very best and quickest would take about three years.
Are you hearing from, and again, we're hearing from the Democrats, but are we hearing from Republicans about Doge and the cutting of the federal government?
unidentified
We're hearing from Republicans in very, very quiet ways about this.
And part of it is they don't want to challenge their president.
Another part of it, and it's amazing that this is true for some Republicans as well as some Democrats, there is a terror about damaging one's own constituents by being too overtly opposed to the Doge cuts.
There are a lot of programs that Republicans are trying to save, and they're concerned that if they're not a little bit politic, they take away their ability to help their constituents by rolling back some of these cuts.
You know, this is a really, really interesting week because we are already seeing the early damage from the tariffs take hold.
And depending on what public sentiment does, are people going to be a little bit more open?
But this is probably Mike Johnson's biggest test yet.
He has, a lot of people would say, been really masterful in how he's managed the relationship with Donald Trump.
He has had really one big insight, which is that to get all of this across the finish line, the person he needs to persuade is Donald Trump, who then calls into the House.
What do you think about Mitch McConnell essentially voting down every big initiative that the president has had in the past since he retired from leadership?
Is this an image thing or is this sincere?
unidentified
My reporting indicates that this is really sincere: that this is Mitch McConnell unchained.
He no longer has to, as the face of the party, go along with the president, and he can be a little bit more himself.
Siobhan Hughes with Wall Street Journal is our guest.
We're talking about Congress.
Matt is a Democrat in Virginia.
Please go ahead, Matt.
unidentified
So, first, I'd just like to comment quickly since I heard the polling, please Chuck Schumer retire, let someone else take over.
But my question for the guest is: you know, looking at what's happened to the stock market, looking at how disorganized this rollout of tariffs is, and how extraordinary in terms of the history of tariffs in terms of blanket tariffs on everyone based on strange numbers, how long do you think the Republicans give this president before they go,
Long Process Reckoning00:14:46
unidentified
this emperor has no clothes, he's crazy, this is destroying our economy?
So, what they've stated, at least, is it's maybe something like 60 days.
If you look at the number that's in the Chuck Grassley bill, Ted Cruz on his podcast gave it even less time, about 30 days.
The one opportunity they're holding out to Republicans is that maybe some other countries will start negotiating and the tariffs can come down quickly.
But boy, I've got to tell you, it's hard to see this lasting very long.
Well, Matt brought up the Chuck Schumer AOC issue.
Washington Post this morning, younger Democrats push for a changing of the guard.
They go through and list several examples across the country where younger Democrats are essentially challenging longtime members of Congress.
unidentified
Yeah, and you're seeing it a lot on the Democratic side.
And a piece of it, nobody has ever stated that, but don't forget, Joe Biden was essentially pushed out of the presidential election last year because of his age.
And very quietly, you are starting to see a lot of the older senators step down or announce they're not going to run again.
And so there is, whether it's stated or not, you are seeing Democrats sort of retreat from the scene, the long-serving ones, and in a way making space for the others to rise up.
We are still not there yet.
Don't forget that AOC had wanted that committee chairmanship and Jerry Conner.
Is Mike Johnson and is Hakeem Jeffries, are they accessible to the media?
unidentified
I would say Mike Johnson probably a little bit more accessible to the media.
We can get him walking in the hallways to votes and from votes.
He's very controlled in the outlets to which he is willing to grant interviews, I will say.
And Hakeem Jeffries sort of has always come across as a much more controlled politician, somebody who will talk at press conferences, but really has a message that he wants to stick to.
And so it's very, very hard to get him in a free or revealing moment.
I'm going to take this opportunity to just say that Siobhan Hughes is on the news side of the Wall Street Journal, the editorial page side, which is separate from the news side, usually conservative and pretty consistent about that.
But they have been, and they have been negative on President Trump, especially with the tariffs issue.
unidentified
The editorial pay, yes, has really been critical of Trump's moves on tariffs.
And, you know, one could also think about the history of the paper being a business paper and maybe them channeling some of that thinking.
I got a couple of quick points to make regarding Trump's policies on a tariff.
I'm going to address them to Siobhan.
Trump's policies are normally business friendly.
I mean, he lowers the regulations and he, I'm sure, provides tax incentives.
One question I have: wouldn't this be advantageous to us?
I mean, instead of having these companies, if they're overtaxed and over-regulated, move out of the country and go to places like China, Mexico, Ireland, South America, and like that, and thus keeping jobs in the country.
One of the things I noticed that with this huge influx of immigrants, this is going to weigh heavily on our financial situation.
We're going to have to provide all kinds of services for this.
And it's just going to add to the process of being unsettled or the feeling of being unsettled that, Peter, you had on earlier.
But another thing I'd like to talk about, I'll do this as quickly as I can, regarding tariffs.
You know, I see tariffs as being protective, reciprocal, and punitive.
I mean, Trump has mentioned using the tariff to keep Mexico and Canada from allowing fentanyl in the country.
So in a punitive sense, I think maybe another course of action could be taken other than using a tariff.
But one of the things that concerns me and why I think Trump is on the right track, these tariffs could be protective and reciprocal.
I just don't understand how countries like Canada, the European Union, who are our friends and profess to be our friends, can have tariffs and non-tariff restrictions like VATs and things of that nature and keep American products out.
It's just counterintuitive.
I just don't understand that, and people get upset.
Thank you very much, Siobhan Hughes of the Wall Street Journal.
unidentified
Well, first of all, you're speaking my language.
I am from Western New York, and actually, when I followed the rise of Trump back in 2016, I remembered that the sentiment in favor of tariffs was really pretty pronounced up there.
Manufacturing got hit hard.
So, what you're saying is essentially the Trump argument, the Republican argument, the Peter Navarro argument that this country has got to do something to bring down tariff and non-tariff barriers around the world because, as Trump says, the U.S. has been essentially ripped off.
You know, but it's also true that the supply of low-cost goods into this country has been something that a lot of Americans have really, really liked.
And the Democratic argument, and some of the Republicans say this too, that bringing manufacturing back to this country is a long process that, you know, maybe has not been thought out with this quick imposition of tariffs.
That's a real point, too.
And so there are a lot of different things to weigh here.
They literally shut the House down because of this issue?
unidentified
The House was shut down because of this issue, because Anna Paulina Luna essentially had enough votes to pass this discharge petition to allow for proxy voting for parents.
I think it was up to 12 weeks.
Mike Johnson essentially closed down the House.
No legislation could pass, and it was really unclear what was going to happen with that.
And yesterday, we saw the congresswoman post a tweet that they have reached an accord on this and the house is going to be able to open up back up.
And, you know, getting back to the point of Mike Johnson, he seems to have found a way through this.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't mispronouncing it there.
So, Carl's in Maine, Democrat.
Carl, please go ahead with your question for the Wall Street Journal, Siobhan Hughes.
unidentified
Yeah, well, first, I'd like to make a point.
I'm a 72-year-old disabled veteran.
I live about halfway up the coast of Maine.
And what's happened in my life in the last two days is my little, I live on Social Security, $12.37 a month, and I get a $300-a month pension, $15,995 a year.
And it's hard to get by on that.
And since Donald Trump took office, here's what happened to me in one day: my IRA account, I've lost over $1,000 in it.
I went to buy food, prices never went down, like he promised.
I went to pay my oil bill.
Oil in Maine is up to $380 a gallon.
I keep it on $67,500 a month out of my little income.
Then I see all my bills going up.
I go to a free meal at the church, which Rockland has been provided to us for poor people and the disabled.
Now, why on these news channels when we're watching that, instead of paying these politicians on both sides all day to say it's on there and it's not on there, why don't we put a simple movie screen up and have them actually turn to the page so they can be transparent and show the American people.
Thank you for calling in and sharing your story with us.
Siobhan Hughes, what's your response to him?
unidentified
Two things.
First, thank you for sharing your story.
In a nutshell, that is what Democrats see as the problem.
Number two, I am going to tweet out the budget resolution that passed.
It is true that the word Medicaid is not in that resolution, but it's also true that there is that number $880 billion for the House Energy and Commerce Committee to come up with cuts.
And all of their reporting suggests that the only way to get to that number is to cut into Medicaid.
And so that's why the word isn't in the bill, but why there's so much consternation about it on the Hill.
And I will tweet that out so you can look that up for yourself.
As a follow-on to Stuart Banner's History of the Supreme Court, this week's Book Notes Plus podcast features a 2002 interview with Dennis Hutchinson, a University of Chicago law professor emeritus.
The subject matter, forgotten memoir of John Knox, a law clerk to former Justice James McReynolds, a native of Kentucky.
Knox's year was the term beginning October 1936.
In history, it is very rare that a law clerk at the Supreme Court has published an insider's view of the court or of a justice.
Professor Hutchinson gives the background on where he found the memoir, which hadn't been published before.
Justice McReynolds, as you will hear, was, according to historians, arguably one of the most disagreeable justices ever to sit on the bench.
unidentified
An interview with University of Chicago law professor Dennis Hutchinson on the forgotten memoir of John Knox on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host Brian Lamb.
Book Notes Plus is available wherever you get your podcasts and on the C-SPAN Now app.
The cherry blossoms are in season and we're marking the occasion with our cherry blossom sale.
Going on right now at cspanshop.org, our online store.
Save up to 25% on our entire cherry blossom collection of t-shirts, sweatshirts, and drinkwear.
Scan the code or visit c-spanshop.org during our cherry blossom sale.
There is a lot of chaos and concern in the country right now.
There's a lot of divisiveness, and a lot of it goes back to Trump.
I believe if Trump could just answer three questions, it would vilify the country and get rid of a lot of the divisiveness if they understood where he was coming from.
My first question to him would have been, do you believe in the Constitution?
Well, tell you what, that's a pretty big first question that you asked there.
So we will leave it there.
Art, maybe next time we talk to you, you can give us questions two and three.
Let's talk to Dee in Wisconsin, Independent line.
Hi, Dee.
unidentified
Hi.
Yes, I'm very unsettled with all these tariffs and Social Security.
I'm worried about Canada.
They're our closest ally.
And I've heard on the news that they, you know, that people are selling their real estate from, you know, trying to get rid of, I mean, they're boycotting us completely.
And that's very, very unsettling because, you know, they're our closest ally.
And then the Social Security is terrible.
You know, with the Medicare, and we don't know for sure what he's doing.
I don't think he knows what he's doing.
He keeps saying that both of those are not going to be cut, but he's cutting everything around them.
So that's, you know, pretty much what I'm unsettled about.
Next call is Steve in New Jersey, Independent Lines.
Steve, with the political, economic, and social events going on around the world today, are you feeling unsettled at all?
unidentified
Well, as an independent, I really feel unsettled because I feel like there are two mobs, if you will, fighting with each other, going at war with each other, and they're destroying my country.
I mean, I'm looking right now.
I have the sound off from your on the TV.
I have the sound off, and I'm looking at all these signs, ridiculous, horrible signs.
I mean, it's amazing.
You have a governor of Minnesota clapping because an American company might go bankruptcy.
I mean, there are literally politicians right now in glee, in glee, because the market's going down.
So now they have a new Pearl Cup clutching moment about Trump.
It is absurd what's going on.
And I have to say, the media is not helping.
It's not helping.
So, like, as an independent, am I unsettled?
Yeah, I'm unsettled because we have two factions going to war and they're destroying our country.
And no one is sane enough to say, we're destroying our country.
So, Jasmine, would you say that you are unsettled because of Donald Trump?
unidentified
No, not him so much.
There are many people who are mentally unstable.
I'm unsettled that the people are turning him into some kind of prophet.
Many people have challenges.
We don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
What we do is look for people who have more virtues, values, who are at least trying to bring us together to have a higher calling other than their ego.
But when people are mentally unstable, you can't blame them.
But I'm wondering what's going on with the people who are voting for people who are worshiping this person.
So far, in the first 80 days or so of his administration in his second term, he signed 111 executive orders.
In eight years, Barack Obama signed 276.
Joe Biden signed 162.
From the Washington Times this morning, Kennedy reveals HHS will rehire some fired workers.
HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said some of the department's 10,000 workers who were fired last week will be rehired and certain programs will be reinstated.
Mr. Kennedy told reporters his overhaul of HHS, which entails streamlining agencies and reducing the workforce, resulted in some mistakes.
Quote, there were a number of instances where studies that should not have been cut were cut and we've reinstated them.
Personnel that should not have been cut were cut and we are reinstating them and that has always been the plan.
The layoffs began on Tuesday and will ultimately shrink the health and human services workforce by 25%, including another 10,000 workers taking buyouts.
The cuts are part of President Trump's pledge to reduce the size and cost of government.
Joan, political, economic, socially, all those issues going on.
How are you feeling?
unidentified
I am feeling stressed out, and I have high anxiety.
And I think that we're not even thinking about the amount of anxiety that this is causing people.
The thing I'm most stressed out about is the Constitution.
The Constitution has always made me feel very secure being an American.
And everything that I see happening and the Constitution is not being adhered to.
And then we have to run to the courts to dispute the Constitution.
That just doesn't make any sense to me.
If something is illegal, it's illegal.
Why can't we stop it there?
Why do we have to then keep going to the courts to make a decision on something that's already protected by the Constitution?
So that's one thing I'm really stressed out about.
The second thing I'm having anxiety about is I've been listening this morning.
I heard the couple of people who call the billionaire who has 50 different homes and the millionaires and whatever.
I make a good living.
I work on Wall Street.
I pay an average of $50K in taxes.
And my husband and I still have to pay taxes after that.
And I'm not complaining about that because this is a country where we help each other up.
And if I pay an extra $10,000 or $12,000 more to the $50K that we've already paid, and it goes to feed someone and it helps a hungry child in Africa and it helps feed someone somewhere else and put clothing, because I'm doing better.
So Elon Musk, someone said he paid $30 billion in taxes.
Yeah, the White House sent out quite a few people yesterday to the morning shows, didn't they, to talk about tariffs?
Did they get their message out?
unidentified
Oh, yeah, I mean, they have to get their message out.
I mean, if you just look at, if you pull up the financial index, the markets are all over the place right now.
So, you know, the administration, they have to sort of get in front of the markets right now.
Things are not looking great for the administration.
Just the S ⁇ P, everything is plummeting right now.
So, you know, they're trying to get out there to sort of calm, you know, to ease everyone's concern, let people know that, hey, things might be a little, you know, not great right now, but it's only a short-term problem.
I mean, President Trump did say this, he's been saying this for a while, that there could be some short-term pressure.
But now the moment is here.
So it's really going to be interesting to see how the administration navigates this.
Because when you think about it and when you start looking at the markets, you know, I'm at Bloomberg, so we cover this up all the time.
But, you know, when you start playing with people's money, it raises the question of, okay, what is the administration going to do to sort of help ease the pressure?
Hey, what's going on with the trade advisor Peter Navarro and Elon Musk?
Is there tension there?
unidentified
I think the White House is they've been riding the honeymoon phase since taking office in January, and now they're being presented with real challenges that they have to address, everything from the Doge cuts to the tariffs to the financial markets.
So you could say things are maybe a little high stress right now here at the White House.
There's a lot going on.
Obviously, this is a place where big decisions are made.
And so when you're making these big decisions at such a rapid pace, you know, it's only a matter of time before there maybe starts to be some tension, you know, between, you know, colleagues, as you might say.
But, you know, it's interesting to see sort of how the two are working together.
I mean, the question that's been on everyone's minds since Elon Musk sort of entered Trump's orbit is, you know, how long will he be around?
unidentified
How long can we expect him to sort of keep going with Doge?
And it seems like maybe we are sort of reaching that moment where his role could be taking a step back.
But again, it's only a matter of time.
And if anything, we know with this administration is President Trump is the decider, and he will be the one to sort of make any sort of personnel decision.
Hey, Skylar Woodhouse, can you give us some insight on the briefing room, the seating there, the relationship between the media and Caroline Levitt, and the accessibility of the president?
unidentified
Yeah, I mean, look, the president's been very accessible to the press.
I've been down to Palm Beach a few times with the president, and we've had access to him.
He's come back to us on Air Force Swan.
He's spoken with us.
I do think to be the president of the United States, he's pretty generous with his time in terms of, you know, taking questions from the press, whether that's in the Oval Office, on Air Force Swan, doing a press conference.
You know, when you sort of just compare the administration to the Biden administration, you can very, you know, the differences are almost night and day.
We're expecting a press conference today with Prime Minister Benjamin Yetanyahu, and President Trump is expected to, you know, they have the Oval Office bylaw.
So maybe that could be two opportunities today for press to be in front of the leaders.
So, you know, the administration, you know, it's definitely an interesting time.
Obviously, you know, we have all seen the reports and sort of the changes that are happening among the White House press pool.
But, you know, still within that, we're still, you know, having opportunities to talk with the president.
And we are back to our question that we have been asking all morning, which is, are you feeling unsettled with the political, economic, and social changes going on in the world?
Got about 15 more minutes to take your calls, and then we're going to switch topics.
We're going to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion with Eric Smith of the Cato Institute.
That's coming up in about 15 minutes or so.
But in the meantime, how are you feeling with all the things going on in the world today?
Do you consider them to be course corrections?
Do you consider them to be chaos?
202 is the area code for all of our numbers, 737-0001 if you are a Republican and want to dial in.
And from the other end of the country, Israel is in Florida, Independent Line.
Hi, Israel.
unidentified
Hey, how's it going?
Thank you.
Thank you for letting me in.
I have some things I have to mention, and I think they're very important, and I think it's going to shed light to a lot of things that are going on.
All of this stuff is being orchestrated beyond the White House and the presidency.
There's elites that are controlling and orchestrating everything.
A lot of the stuff that they present in movies like iRobot are the stuff that Elon Musk has been doing in this present day.
And so it doesn't surprise us.
And that's an antichrist approach.
So Trump, while he's releasing all the good people, he's keeping all the antichrist personnel around his circle instead of inviting godly principles into the nation and united the nation.
Because there's a new world order that they're trying to do.
Because if they can keep everybody combating, fighting against each other on a racial war and an economic war, then they're sidetracking from who the real victims are.
And if everybody unites as a nation, black, white, or whatever you are in this nation, and rise up against them, then that releases them of the power that they have over us because what they're doing is witchcraft over this nation.
And a lot of people don't understand that the godly principles.
He was a counselor to the Treasury Secretary in the Obama administration.
He's done well in business as well.
And here is his op-ed.
Few of us ever imagined he would go this far.
Mr. Ratner writes, in the 50 years I have been immersed in markets and economic policy, I've never before witnessed a signature economic policy initiative that was met with such unalloyed criticism.
What's worse, the damage was entirely self-inflicted.
He goes on to say that privately, several chief executives told him that they recognized that imposing the tariffs, as well as Mr. Trump's intractable support of them, was a potentially cataclysmic mistake.
Quote, few of us ever imagined he would go this far, one told me.
He could well bring down the economy and himself.
The Trump-supporting business leaders I've spoken to, Mr. Ratner writes in the last few days, don't yet regret their votes, mostly because of their intense distaste, if not hatred, for the Biden-Harris administration.
And they remain broadly supportive of the efforts of the tech billionaire Elon Musk to reform the federal government, even if they acknowledge that his Doge team may be going too far in its slashing of spending and personnel.
But I wonder how some other major Trump-supporting leaders whose stock prices have been particularly hard-hit feel right now, like Steven Schwartzman, CEO of Blackstone, down 15% in two days, and Safra Katz, CEO of Oracle, the database company, down 12%.
Mr. Trump's actions aren't the only problem.
Almost as important is the lack of clarity as to what policies he is pursuing and why.
That's a little bit from Steve Ratner's op-ed this morning in the New York Times.
Donna, North Carolina Democrat.
Good morning, Donna.
You feeling unsettled these days?
unidentified
Good morning.
You know, I am not unsettled.
The reason why I'm not unsettled is because Kamala Harris and Tim Walz explained to us throughout the campaign what would happen if this man was to return to office.
There were so many callers that I wanted to respond to, but after listening to Mr. Ratner's op-ed in the paper, I mean, he is, of course, on point.
So I can say even, I don't even know why the gentleman in Kansas spoke of the Democrats being unhinged.
America should be unhinged due to the fact that our Constitution is being attacked, like the lady was speaking of in New Jersey.
All right, Frank in Georgia, thank you very much for calling in.
Here is a text.
This is from David in Brooklyn.
Good morning.
I am 82 years old, retired professional woodworker.
I receive my Social Security payments on time every month, deposited directly into my bank account.
I am unsettled about widespread anti-Semitism and destruction of Tesla dealerships and their cars.
I would like to suggest C-SPAN have Mark Levin on as a guest speaker.
Thank you.
Again, that's David in Brooklyn.
And this is from the Wall Street Journal this morning.
Columbia's former president undergoes heated government questioning in closed-door session.
Closed-door government questioning of Columbia University's recently departed interim president indicates the Trump administration's relationship with the school remains strained as they negotiate over federal funding.
Katrina Armstrong, who stepped down as Columbia's interim president March 28th, was questioned by a government attorney in D.C. this past Tuesday for about three hours as part of the Trump administration's investigation of anti-Semitism on campus.
The deposition offers a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the relationship between elite universities and an administration taking extraordinary measures to reset their campus cultures.
Armstrong told officials during questioning that she wasn't aware of allegations that classmates had spit on Jewish students, nor did she know the names of faculty alleged to have distributed materials justifying the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel.
She said she didn't recall learning that students were calling for the destruction of the state of Israel.
Quote, I'm just trying to understand how you have such a terrible memory of specific incidences of anti-Semitism when you're clearly an intelligent doctor, Sean Keveney, acting general counsel of the Department of Health and Human Services, said about halfway through the deposition.
If you want to read more, it's in the Wall Street Journal this morning.
Kathy, Florida, Independent Line.
Kathy, are you feeling unsettled by world events?
unidentified
Oh, yes, very much so, ever since Trump was elected.
And I'm in Trump territory.
He's a criminal.
He bankrupt most of his company.
And now he's bankrupting our country.
The price of groceries are astronomical.
Drugs are high.
And I'm worried about Social Security and Medicare.
And I really feel terrible about Musk closing the USAID overseas, helping hungry people.
But here, he claims, the president claims he care about this country.
But since he's been in office, I haven't heard him say anything or address anybody about the floods in this country, about the hurricanes in this country, about the fires in this country.
But he cares.
I don't see it.
I don't understand it.
I think he is a glorified, rich thug going in our country.
He has disrespected the people who work in this country, pretty much all of us, by saying, oh, I don't think people would mind missing a payment of Social Security.
unidentified
Wow.
I know a lot of people who depend very heavily on that just for basic survival.
And I'm wondering if it may be the Democrats and Republicans aren't in cahoots to disrupt and enslave, not the Democrats and Republicans, excuse me, the oligarchs, the American oligarchs are not in cahoots to enslave the American people.
Carrying the Big Stick00:00:54
unidentified
Trump is acting like a tyrant.
He should be acting like a statesman.
He should be speaking softly if he's carrying that big stick.
I was really happy that he was going to carry that big stick.
I didn't think he'd go bashing our friends and our allies in the face with insults and yelling at them and treating them like second-class citizens.
Washington Times this morning, deportations could cost health care industry more than 1 million workers.
The Trump administration's aggressive deportation strategy could cost understaffed U.S. health medical providers.
providers more than 1 million non-citizen workers, including a third who are undocumented.
The analysis of Census Bureau data in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 3.4 million out of over 20 million U.S. healthcare workers in 2024, roughly 17% were foreign-born.
That included 2.3 million naturalized citizens, 697,000 documented non-citizens, 366,000 illegal aliens.
If you want to read more of this study, it's in the Washington Times this morning.
Well, we're going to turn our attention to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Our guest is Eric Smith.
He is with the Cato Institute and he has founded a group called Free Black Thought.
We will be right back.
unidentified
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c-span democracy unfiltered democracy is always an unfinished creation Democracy is worth dying for.
When you were testifying in Congress recently, you said, quote, contemporary DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, is not an extension of the civil rights movement.
It is undergirded by a quasi-Marxist ideology called critical social justice.
Well, the Congressional Black Caucus, which has been around for 50 or so years in Congress, is currently chaired by Yvette Clark of New York, Democrat from New York.
And recently she spoke about DEI and the Trump administration's efforts in that regard.
You can tell we're talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, and DEI initiatives and the Trump administration's plans to get rid of DEI initiatives, not only in the federal government, but across the country.
Numbers are up on the screen.
Go ahead and dial in, divided by Republican, Democrat, and Independent.
Just as a founder of Free Black Thought and talking about being politically black and DEI is an industry?
unidentified
Yes.
Well, that's a very long story.
I'll try to truncate into a few seconds.
I realized in my field of rhetoric and composition, I'm a former professor, that there was a lot of illiberal sentiment going on, a lot of brazen statements about how the point of education is to take down civil society, not to perpetuate it.
I had an issue with this, and because I had that issue, I was attacked.
And that opened my eyes to exactly how ingrained critical social justice is in academia.
And then eventually I found out how much it was ingrained in other institutions.
Yeah, you write that on the Cato Institute's website that you emailed a client, why is this, basically, when you were told when you were working in academe that you needed to stand up to X for racism reasons, and you said why.
unidentified
And yes, well, I mean, one of the things that was talked about is the idea that teaching standard English to black students was a form of racism, right?
We're denying their African-American vernacular or something like that.
When in reality, students are not paying tuition to not learn.
They're there to learn the standard English, so they have that tool.
However, learning that standard English would help them be successful and fulfilled in contemporary society.
But these professors, many of them, not all of them, think that contemporary society is the problem.
So there's a conflict of interest there that I think is not talked about enough.
You write that it was so white that you could be used as a landmark.
unidentified
Yes.
Yes.
If you're lost, take two blocks that way.
You're going to see a black kid.
Turn left.
Yeah, that's how rare black guys are.
And how did that impact who you are today?
It made me a staunch individual because when I went to high school in that same region, the high school was much more diverse than my elementary school and middle school.
And I thought I'd be finding my people and I wouldn't be such an outcast, right?
No, I was also an outcast to them because I was too white, having grown up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
So I had no click.
And having no click, I was forced to embrace individuality, and I'm glad I did.
Individuality and not group consciousness is the major unit in the society, and it should be.
What do you think about what the Trump administration has proposed via executive orders mostly when it comes to DEI initiatives?
unidentified
I'm somewhat confused because in the first administration, Trump's first administration, he had a similar EO prohibiting discrimination in any way, race, sex.
And he had a section that said, here's what I'm saying.
We're not saying you can't talk about race.
We're not saying you can't teach these ideas.
We're saying you can't coerce people and you can't put people in boxes that they don't want to be in.
That caveat doesn't seem to be present in the current EOs, which is why diversity, equity, inclusion is being attacked from many different directions.
It's not just attacking critical social justice, right?
Also, people who are not doing critical social justice but are trying to do DEI the right way, the civil rights way, right?
They're also being attacked too.
And I think that's somewhat unfair, but it might be the cost of doing business here.
The civil rights way is DEI that's focused on classical liberal values.
And what I mean by that is it focuses on individuality, the primacy of reason.
It focuses on free speech, free association, all these different things.
And it also focuses on colorblindness, right?
Now, in contemporary DEI, the kind undergirded by critical social justice, colorblindness is a bad thing because it's seen as not seeing somebody's race and therefore not seeing that person's struggles.
As if you know a person's struggles just by looking at them.
The civil rights movement of the 60s did not do that.
It did the total opposite.
Judge me by my character, my merits, and not by my skin color.
That's been flipped right now.
And I think that's the problem.
And I'm glad the Trump administration is doing something about it.
But I want to acknowledge that there are people out there who do not abide by critical social justice and are trying to do things the king way.
Obviously, you have to take into consideration the struggles people might have had because of their race or their sex or something like that.
Hiring Based on Merit00:15:20
unidentified
But ultimately, we should hire people.
We should promote people based on their merits and what they can do, how they can do the job and things like that.
I'm not saying that there aren't issues.
I'm saying that the issues should be taken care of long before somebody gets into a job interview or something like that.
Outreach programs to middle schools and high schools, for example, they're working very well.
The Hidden Genius program, which is focused on STEM, goes into black communities and shows students what it means to be a chemistry major, what it means to be an engineer or something like that.
It gets them started early so that by the time they're in college, it's not a kosher shock or something like that.
The Take Charge program in Minnesota, started by Kendall Qualls, something similar.
These things are happening.
And nobody is saying racism doesn't exist.
They are saying that the current ways of dealing with it are flawed.
I don't know if you've seen this or not, but the National Park Service has removed Harriet Tubman from the website.
It edits the history exhibits.
She has been removed, as you can see here.
We'll show you the original up here in the red.
Move up a little further.
Great.
That was the original from the website.
I am the conductor of the Underground Railroad, and it has her name, of course.
And then now you come down.
Here's what the green is, and this is the new website.
What do you think about removing Harriet Tubman from the National Park Service on the Underground Railroad?
unidentified
I don't understand why it was necessary to do that.
And this is, again, the downside of getting rid of DEI.
Some things that shouldn't be attacked are being attacked.
And things like this, to be frank, are happening all over the country.
In South York County right now, there was a black chemist who was going to visit the school district and talk to the students about chemistry, all students.
It would have been wonderful.
That visit was canceled because of fear that she might talk about political issues.
I've been following politics for quite a long time.
I guess the days of Watergate got me interested in it.
But I got to tell you, if I was a black man, I would be insulted.
I mean, there are so many black people in history, you just named a couple, who made it possible for you to be where you are, to get an education, to vote.
And then you join the Cato Institute, which basically wants to have a plan to rewrite the Constitution, which is in line with what Project 2025 wants to do.
Aristotle's definition is kind of the standard, although that's being attacked right now because he's a dead white male.
But his definition is rhetoric is the ability in any given situation to discern the available means of persuasion.
So if I'm talking to you, I would do well to know who you are, what your interests are, things like that, so I can make references that you would understand, as opposed to references that you might not understand because of who you are, right?
So that's a very simple explanation of it.
Of course, you can scale it to societies, nations, ethnicities, and how they understand and talk about the world and things like that.
Okay, so it might be a question leading into a statement or a statement leading to a question, but here it goes.
Education has always been based on zip code.
You had a better result when school choice was allowing you to live in one area and go to school in another, which allowed you to separate from your environment you lived in and study in one you could equip yourself to be at least a blue collar in any industry.
Lastly, I think with the new restructure of the human services, which usually handle disability cases, it seems like that should be a better result and equip states and schools with straight communication from the science world of that diagnosis of that development and how you can equip that and incorporate that in schools in any environment so that all can thrive.
And then lastly, with everything that's going on, I'm glad that the gentleman, Mr. Smith, was saying it's not a black and white issue.
I think that's what got our country here after the new deal of Roosevelt with using immigrants to get that change, that money up into Social Security, and they wasn't going to get, but it was helpful to our common den exporting them back out.
It's the same thing that's different day.
I just hope that moving forward, and I'll end it here.
I hope that moving forward, we do, we just allow a matrix to be examined from a smaller scale to make a big impact, especially in the court systems.
We have so many people that are being tried with not the facts just to get grants to say war on drugs or war on.
I support actions and not necessarily people or administrations.
So whether I voted for an administration or not, I will judge them on their actions.
And there are many times where a president I voted for did not do things quite well, and I was very vocal about it to my friends and family, of course.
But I was very vocal about it.
I like the idea of revamping the Department of Education.
Some of those things can go other places.
And I think the state should have more say in what's going on.
I like that.
I like the prohibition of DEI to an extent.
It may go a little too far, as we talked about a little bit earlier, but we need to get the critical social justice out of higher ed pedagogy and secondary pedagogy, really.
So these things I like.
Fortunately for me, the things that I'm not super keen about are things that are not in my wheelhouse.
So, you know, it doesn't matter anyway.
I don't know.
I'm not a professional.
I'll leave that to the professionals.
But what I do know about education, civil discourse, DEI, it's mostly good, a little bad.
I just learned about free black thought, but isn't providing a platform for black viewpoints not in and of itself a form of equity?
Question mark.
Is your point of view against DEI being a government mandate versus DEI in general?
unidentified
I'm against government mandating many things, and DEI is one of them.
The point of free black thought is not so much equity, right, as it is getting people to know that there's more than just one voice coming from black Americans.
That's really the gist of it.
And we are founded in classical liberal values, as I talked about before.
And we want to put the individuality and colorblindness back into DEI.
So DEI in that sense is not something I'm against.
DEI in the critical social justice sense, I am against.
And that doesn't belong anywhere, whether it's the federal government, education, churches, whatever.
And my point is to everyone in this country, there is no such thing as a race.
The only race of people that I'm familiar with since I've been on this planet has been humans.
No one else.
When you categorize yourself and have you thinking that somehow there's something wrong with you, then that's a problem.
We all came from each other.
Anything white are considered white.
Always have to go through a process to become that way.
We are family on this planet as human beings.
And first there was affirmative action.
That didn't work.
Now there's DEI.
And I want to remind everyone who's listening, who's commenting, DEI is the entire planet.
We can't get away from DEI.
It's diversity, equity, and inclusion.
So if you're not going to include everybody, you should put up a sign like they have in South Africa back in the days or in this country, as a matter of fact, that says white only.
And then you can take the list of these so-called people that you put on your job application.
You can remove the list and base that an only qualification.
I'm more than qualified for a lot of things that I've done a job in my life, but no one sees my resume until they sit down and talk to me.
So I would love to have this conversation.
I can casually walk down the street with no care in the world and have a cup of coffee and don't have people bump me and do this and call me the N-word, but they have no idea my education level and how impactful I have.
I am if they can just sit down and talk to me as a human being.
And that's our problem.
Until we solve that problem, we're always going to keep digging ourselves in our hole and keep moving back and back, which does not make any sense.
Just for edification, do you experience incidences of racism on a regular basis?
unidentified
Oh, my goodness.
Where do I start?
I went to Massachusetts in a pretty good school.
I worked my ass off.
Excuse my language.
I can have conversation with everyone, my professor, all of this.
But when it comes down to me having a conversation with some of the people who somehow think that I wasn't that insightful until they start talking to me, then they realize that I'm not a dumbass.
They resort to that, you know, that whole, oh, you're a black guy, you're this, you're that.
That's the out.
That's their out for people who can't deal with people like me and who are challenged for people like me.
Because if you level the playing field, trust me, we can go and get ours.
And I want to remind everyone, Jackie Robinson, that did a lot for who we are in this country, and I'm proud of that.
And let's also talk about Jesse Owens.
Let's bring that man up for change and just him alone.
So imagine if we had this level playing field that we're fighting so much to get.
Imagine if all of the stuff was equal for everybody in this country.
Where would we be?
And where would it be as black people, as colored people, as native?
Where would we be at this point as a country if we have leveled the playing field?
All right, Aaron, before we let you go, I want to show you this one article.
This is on Breitbart this morning.
New York State Education Department refuses to eliminate its DEI practices.
What do you think about that?
unidentified
I think it's excellent, but we should stop using the word DEI because diversity, equity, and inclusion should not be, that's exactly what it is.
It's the exact of that for all the masses of people in different countries and different culture that comes into all of our education system, every one of us.
I'm just wondering, I know the young man's educated institute.
I'm much older than him, and I understand that.
I have concerns with people that I know he's trying to right a wrong or make a situation work out, but Cato Institutions and the institutions like that that are primarily right-leaning, they are doing underhanded things to disallow everybody from voting.
I mean, black people and poor white people as well, but mainly black people.
James, you're saying that the Cato Institute is actively preventing people of color from voting?
unidentified
In the thing, if you read the things that they put out from their individual writers or whomever, they are doing things like, well, for instance, okay, trying to get voting rights for people to have IDs, certain IDs.
We'll get a response from Mr. Smith, but I would also note to you that in Wisconsin, they elected the liberal Supreme Court justice, but they also voted overwhelmingly for voter ID laws as well in that state.
unidentified
Right.
It's a mistake to think that somebody is purely in this box or this box.
You can have some conservative views, some liberal views.
And I think one of the biggest falsehoods in the current culture war is the idea that anti-DEI sentiment is only coming from the right.
It's coming from the left as well.
Traditional liberals do not like this stuff.
Why?
Because it demonizes critical inquiry.
It demonizes critiquing anybody who is black or minority or something like that, which is the opposite of critical thinking.
So there are a lot of people on both sides of the aisle who don't like this stuff.
And as you just said, I mean, there are whole states who can say, we want this, but we also want this.
Steve, New York City, or New York, I should say, Republican.
Hi, Steve.
unidentified
Good morning.
I'm a black man, and I'm listening to this brother here speak.
And the other day, C-SPAN had the man on from the Heritage Foundation, a Cuban, speaking against DEI.
His job, him having his job, is DEI.
You're speaking for the Cato Institute, a white institution.
You having your job is DEI.
The opposition to MLK, the people who were busting heads on the Edmund Pettus Bridge, they weren't liberals who wanted to get along.
They were the same white conservative movement that you speak of and speak for.
So I don't think black people should be given anything, but you're a black man sitting here speaking against the people who gave their lives for you to be in the position that you're in currently.
Now, the Heritage Foundation, they'll tried out a Cuban to speak against black and white issues in America when that Cuban and his family had no dog in the fight between black people and white people.
And I don't think black people and white people should be segregated or enemies just because of their skin color, but black people have been given unfair treatment simply because of their skin color.
And you sit here and you speak for the same people that you said made a sport out of being racist to you.
We're going to get a response from our guest, Eric Smith.
unidentified
It's amazing what people think about the Cato Institute and what we are.
His description couldn't be further from my experience in that institution.
Regarding being a black person who is speaking out against DEI, again, I'm not speaking out against diversity, equity, and inclusion in the original meanings of those words.
And he went back to the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Alabama talking about the civil rights movement in the 60s.
So saying that you're standing on their shoulders.
unidentified
Right.
And I acknowledge that because I'm standing on my shoulders, I'm saying, standing on their shoulders, I'm saying what I'm saying.
That's precisely why I'm saying what I'm saying.
They went through things that we can't imagine.
So somebody who is black today, who has all these advantages and opportunities, to sit there and think and talk like they have as bad as those people did on that bridge, right?
I think that's the insult, right?
Because of what they did for me, I'm going to make them proud.
As a follow-on to Stuart Banner's History of the Supreme Court, this week's Book Notes Plus podcast features a 2002 interview with Dennis Hutchinson, a University of Chicago law professor emeritus.