CSPAN - NTSB Chair Testifies at Oversight Hearing

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March 30, 2025 13:45-15:35 - CSPAN

01:49:50

NTSB Chair Testifies at Oversight Hearing

Participants

Main

jennifer homendy

ntsb 43:36

rosa delauro

rep/d 12:52

Appearances

dale strong

rep/r 03:56

jim clyburn

rep/d 04:56

tom cole

rep/r 04:13

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Speaker	Time	Text
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		The chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jennifer Homindy, testified on oversight of the agency following deadly plane crashes, including the mid-air collision of an Army helicopter and an American Airlines jet in January near Reagan National Airport that killed 67 people.
		She declined to answer if diversity, equity, and inclusion policies played a role in the incident.
		Subcommittee will come to order.
		I want to thank all of you for joining us at this first hearing of the 119th Congress for the Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing, and Urban Development.
		It doesn't go unnoticed that today is the one-year anniversary of the collapse of the Key Bridge.
		And we will talk a little bit more about that subject in the course of this hearing.
		Many other things have happened that are under the jurisdiction of the NTSB that are also noteworthy and of recent importance.
		I want to recognize a couple of new faces on the dais this year.
		I want to welcome Ms. Stephanie Beiss, Vice Chair of the Subcommittee from the great state of Oklahoma and Alabama's Dale Strong, who's yet to arrive.
		I'd also note that Mr. Jim Clyburn, my ranking member, and Chair Emeritus and Dean of the House, Mr. Hal Rogers, are expected to join us for this subcommittee today.
		Albeit when they last served on this subcommittee together, we were solely tasked with the tea part of THUD.
		Today, we welcome Chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jennifer Homindy, to the subcommittee.
		Ms. Homindy, welcome.
		I want to thank you for appearing before us today and for your service to the taxpaying public.
		I want to start off by expressing on behalf of the entire subcommittee our heartfelt condolences to the families affected by the tragic American Airlines Army helicopter collision back on January 29th.
		This tragedy has been followed by several other incidents from crashes in Philadelphia and Nome, Alaska to the engine fire in Denver two weeks ago.
		Transportation safety has been top of mind across the nation as we look for answers and aim to mitigate the chances of future such incidents.
		Safety is a top priority for this subcommittee in our work to fund the nation's transportation network.
		It is our duty to ensure we provide appropriate levels of support to transportation programs that ensure the safety of our skies, roads, and railroads.
		It is also our duty on this subcommittee to support the operations of the National Transportation Safety Board, or NTSB.
		This critical independent safety watchdog helps ensure our world-class transportation system is as safe as possible, identifying the how and why of some of our most tragic accidents and puzzling events in civil transportation.
		We are proud on this subcommittee to provide the resources necessary for Chair Hamundi and her team to execute this mission.
		Most recently, I was proud to secure an anomaly to the FY25 full-year continuing resolution to help provide Chair Hammondy with the necessary resources for her team to accomplish their statutory mission.
		Be it the key bridge that we talked about earlier, the East Palestine Trail train derailment, or the aviation incidents that have occurred far too often in recent years, Chair Hammondy's team are some of the first on the scene.
		In 2025, we secured a 3.6 percent increase for the NTSB appropriation to $145 million.
		We know, Chair Hamundi, that you put these funds to good use.
		Under your leadership, the NTSB has dramatically reduced the average age of open investigations, getting reports out to the public faster.
		With that, it'd be appropriate to recognize when he gets here the ranking member of this subcommittee, the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Clyburn.
		In the absence of that, however, I'm going to recognize the chairman of the full committee of the House Appropriations Committee, my good friend from the great state of Oklahoma, Tom Cole.
tom cole ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Chairman Warmack, and thank you when he arrives to Ranking Member Clyburn.
		It's always good to be with my good friend, the ranking member of the full committee.
		So I'm happy to see you again.
		And Chair Hamanday, thank you very much for appearing before us today.
		Our nation's transportation systems are relied on by Americans and passengers from across the globe.
		We not only expect but demand that they reflect the gold standard and safety.
		Yet recent accidents in our skies, waterways, and railways have raised serious concerns and questions.
		From the mid-air collision at Reagan Washington National Airport, which my friend the chairman referred to, to the Francis Scott Key Bridge collision, these tragedies have brought devastating loss and underscored the need to ensure these situations are never repeated.
		The bottom line is when you get on a plane, drive over a bridge, or board a train, you shouldn't have to wonder if you'll make it to your destination safely.
		The mission of Chair Hamaday and her team at the National Transportation Safety Board is essential to that achieving that objective.
		They investigate why an accident occurred and identify measures to prevent it from happening again.
		They don't speculate.
		They find the facts necessary to uphold the highest standards of reliability and safety.
		It's for these objectives of improving safety and saving lives that we've prioritized increased resources for the NTSB and our FY25 and FY24 funding measures.
		During my time on this subcommittee, I secured an 8.2% increase to your funding, and I must say you put it to very good use.
		So you are an excellent steward of public money.
		And I'm very pleased that my friend the chairman built on that in 2025.
		Again, I greatly value our interactions and work together, Chair Amade, and I look forward to a continued engagement.
		This subcommittee, as it always has, under both Democratic and Republican stewardship, will continue to ensure safety as an utmost priority in the funding decisions we make.
		Your agency is a fulfillment of that priority.
		As we begin the FY26 appropriations process, I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to responsibly fund this critical safety mission and transportation infrastructure needs of the country.
		So thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		I yield back.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Cole.
		And now it is my great honor and privilege to welcome the ranking member of the full committee, gentlelady from Connecticut, Mr. Laurel.
		Floor is yours.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
		It's great to be with you here this morning and with the chairman and who is a dear friend.
		And I appreciate the opportunity to be here at this hearing.
		And I want to say a thank you to Chair Homandi.
		Really welcome to the committee.
		It's an important and very, very important hearing today.
		It's a topic that impacts every one of our districts, safety and the security of our nation's transportation systems.
		And it does come in the wake of several heartbreaking and deeply concerning tragedies in our nation's skies.
		In addition to that, what happened with the Key Bridge, as well as one in our skies, as well as involving American carrier at Toronto's Pearson Airport.
		Just let me just say a word.
		I've always so admired the NTSD to the point of I view that I spent a lot of time in the food safety area and we have 15 agencies at the federal level that deal with our food safety.
		Two primarily are the FDA and the USDA and wanting to have, for years and years and years, have wanted to consolidate and have one single food safety agency.
		The example I always use is the NTSB because when something happens, you go in, you get the facts, and then you tell us what happened and you make your recommendations instead of a whole bunch of agencies pointing fingers at one another.
		So thank you really for the strength of this agency.
		You're a small agency, but with a tremendously important mission, investigate, help Congress and the American people understand how and why aviation and other transportation disasters happen.
		The independence of the NTSB is critical to its mission.
		We cannot tolerate any outside pressure, political or otherwise, to influence the investigation of and the reporting on transportation incidents.
		However, broadly speaking, the current administration has shown limited respect for the independence of the agencies.
		I would like to know how we can continue to advocate the agency's independence in support of the NTSB's fact-finding and reporting abilities to Congress.
		Unfortunately, after 17 years without a fatal accident involving a U.S. carrier, 67 lives were lost in the Potomac River earlier this year when a PSA Airlines flight operating for American Eagle collided with a U.S. Army helicopter just seconds before attempting to land at Washington's National Airport.
		Two nights later, a medevac flight crashed into a populated area of Philadelphia, taking the lives of all on board and one person on the ground.
		And then in February, a Cessna caravan crashed in Alaska, leaving no survivors.
		With recent reports of near-miss incidents and runway incursions, the American people are deeply concerned about the safety of our aviation system.
		While we need to assure the American people that our commercial aviation system is the safest and the most reliable air system in the world, I am concerned with how the administration is approaching aviation safety and the conflicts of interest involved in billionaire Elon Musk pursuing FAA to contract his own Starlink service rather than engaging in a thorough safety-driven analysis.
		Cuts and decisions at FAA are out of your jurisdiction and beyond the purview of this hearing.
		But I do want to discuss how this administration has responded to recent incidents.
		NTSB's fact-finding abilities are helped by long-standing policies and an industry culture that encourages flight crew members and air traffic controllers to report any and all incidents that take place.
		Rather than placing blame before we know the facts, we need airspace operators to feel comfortable, compelled to self-report any incidents and diversions from procedures that take place.
		However, in the immediate aftermath of the Potomac crash, we saw the President, the Vice President, and the Secretary of Defense blaming, quote, DEI as a reason for the crash before any facts were known.
		We cannot afford to put the cart before the horse when it comes to aviation safety.
		We cannot lay blame on pilots or air traffic controllers or any other personnel until after the NTSB uncovers and reports on the facts.
		And the preliminary report showed no role for DEI.
		It's follow the facts.
		That is all we are asking.
		We cannot overstate the critical importance your agency plays in keeping our families, our colleagues, and our fellow Americans safe.
		I know you have a deep awareness of this, and I hope you will do whatever necessary to protect and defend NTSB's authorities and prerogatives when it comes to transportation safety.
		Finally, I would like to know how working with agencies such as the Department of Transportation, who are operating under a continuing resolution rather than a full-year funding bill that addresses current and near future needs, affects your collaborative work, ongoing investigations, and the need to close out thousands of transportation safety recommendations in general.
		I wish that we had been able to finish the job on the 2000 on fiscal year 2025 funding bills.
		We were on the brink of a bipartisan agreement between the four corners of the appropriations committees when the House majority decided to upend the process and pursue a partisan bill that does not fully meet the needs of any department or agency across the government.
		And that instead have handed a blank check, in my view, to Elon Musk and to President Trump.
		I implore this committee to get back on track to work towards bipartisan consensus for this subcommittee's bill and the rest of the appropriations bills for 2026.
		Thank you, and I yield back.
unidentified		Thank you, gentlelady.
		The ranking member of the subcommittee has arrived and has informed me that he will waive his opening statement, and we'll go to questions here a little bit later on.
		With that, Chair Hammondi, we turn to you now for your opening statement.
		Your full written statement will also be included for the record.
		Chair recognizes you for five minutes.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and good morning, Chairman Womack, Ranking Member Clyburn, and members of the subcommittee.
		Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to provide an overview of the NTSB's activities.
		I also want to recognize that it was a year ago today that I got the call shortly after 1.29 a.m. about the collision of the Dolly with the Key Bridge and the fatally injured six construction crew members on the bridge, as well as two serious injuries, one on the Dolly and one on the bridge.
		And our deepest condolences I want to offer for the families and all the loved ones for this tragic event and our thoughts and prayers continue to go out to you as we pursue this investigation.
		I want to start by thanking you for your incredible support of the NTSB and our critical safety mission, including the increase in our FY25 funding to $145 million in the CR.
		The funding you provided is necessary to support the staffing, training, and technology we need to maintain our reputation across the globe as the gold standard in accident investigations.
		With your support, we'll be able to increase our agency size to 450 onboards.
		It's currently 427, which I can talk about.
		That would bring us closer to truly full staffing of about 500 personnel.
		The fact is the NTSB has hovered around 400 personnel over the past three decades.
		We need to grow to improve performance, meet increasing demands, and keep pace with emerging challenges.
		As you know, the NTSB is an independent agency charged with investigating and establishing the facts, circumstances, and probable cause of accidents and serious incidents in the U.S. in all modes of transportation.
		We also serve as the United States accredited representative under international treaty and lead the U.S.'s response to the investigation of hundreds of accidents that occur overseas annually.
		The NTSB also delivers a family assistance program, which focuses on facilitating the recovery and identification of fatally injured passengers involved in the accidents we investigate and communicating with families throughout the course of our investigations.
		Our current investigative workload includes almost 1,250 active investigations in all 50 states, including Puerto Rico, including in many of your districts, in addition to supporting more than 160 foreign investigations in over 50 countries.
		Throughout a typical year, we work on about 2,200 domestic and 450 foreign cases, and we expect the number of cases annually to remain high and continue to increase in complexity.
		I want to take a few moments to provide updates on two of our major investigations.
		Earlier this month, we issued a preliminary report and urgent safety recommendations to the FAA in response to the mid-air collision at DCA.
		I want to commend Secretary Duffy for his swift acceptance of these recommendations.
		The Secretary and the Acting Administrator of FAA have been tremendous partners throughout the course of this investigation and in many others, and I want to thank them for their focus on safety.
		Just last week, as part of our ongoing investigation of the DALI collision with the Key Bridge, we issued urgent safety recommendations to 30 owners of 68 bridges, which I also can discuss.
		There is still much work to be done in both of these investigations, and we'll keep this committee updated on our progress.
		Some investigations understandably get more public attention than others, but all of our investigations are critical for improving transportation safety.
		We owe it to the families of those involved, to the communities where accidents occurred, and to the traveling public to find out what happened, why it happened, to prevent it from happening again.
		In 2024, we issued 132 new safety recommendations across all modes of transportation, nearly 60% of which have already been implemented voluntarily by the recommendation recipients.
		This success rate demonstrates the value of our safety recommendations and our work with stakeholders to improve safety.
		And I think this is an important point that I want to emphasize.
		The NTSB doesn't regulate.
		We don't want to.
		The NTSB doesn't have enforcement authority.
		We don't want it.
		Why?
		Because our singular focus is on saving lives.
		And almost all of our safety recommendations we issue are dependent on voluntary action of the recipients.
		In other words, it's a true partnership on safety.
		Chairman Womack, you once said that we punch above our weight.
		That's true.
		We run lean with a highly skilled, highly valued workforce, many of whom are here today or watching online.
		To them, I say, I could not be more proud of you.
		It is an absolute honor, a privilege to serve you and the American people each and every day.
		I want to thank you for having me, and I look forward to answering your questions.
		And I'll just note that Vice Chairman Brown is here today as well.
unidentified		Fantastic.
		Well, we're delighted you're here and grateful for the leadership that you give this organization and the American people.
		Having said that, recognizing that they have a lot of other important things that they need to do, the ranking member and myself are going to delay our questions so that we can go straight to the overall chairman of the Appropriations Committee and then the overall ranking member of the Appropriations Committee, get their questions out of the way so they can go about their business and being respectful of their time and also understanding I know who I work for.
		So with that said, I'm going to recognize my good friend again from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole.
tom cole ▲ ● ▼		You also know how to get our nose out of your business as fast as you can.
		It's a pleasure to be back here and couldn't be prouder of this committee on both sides of the aisle and particularly this chairman, but also your agency.
		We really, really do appreciate you being there in really difficult times and helping us understand what happened and making sure it doesn't happen again.
		Toward that end, and you touched on some of this in your testimony, and I know we don't have a final report yet on the Francis Scott Key Bridge incident, but I think you released recently that there were a couple of electrical outages on the Dolly as it approached the bridge.
		And I'm curious if you can tell us at this point, number one, how did you detect that?
		Just out of curiosity for myself, but is this common on vessels like this, or was this a sign perhaps of negligence on the part of the crew?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That's part of our investigation that we are still looking into.
		There were two electrical outages and then there were electrical outages the day before.
		We determined those were unrelated and announced that in our preliminary report as the day before it was due to planned maintenance and that is not something that they would undertake underway in transit.
		But the electrical outages themselves were still looking into.
		That is part of our investigation.
		I do want to thank some of our partners at Hyundai for coming to help us.
		We got down to the component, subcomponent level and were on the Dolly for about a month with our team.
		So that does continue.
		And then we also have the bridge team focused on the bridge itself and safety.
tom cole ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything about the bridge you can tell us at this point?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So for the bridge itself, while it passed annual inspections, which really focus on the condition of the bridge, what we did is ASHTO, the state highway transportation officials, recommended in 1991 and again in 2009 that bridge owners conduct a vulnerability assessment of their bridges to determine if there's risk and to evaluate that risk and take action if warranted.
		That did not occur for the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
		And so we had asked MDTA if they had done the vulnerability assessment.
		They had not done it.
		And we looked for data for that vulnerability assessment.
		They didn't have the data, so we had to get the data over the course of, it usually takes about a year to do these vulnerability assessments.
		We did it in six months.
		We got a ton of data and then ran the calculations.
		And what we found was that the bridge was almost 30 times greater than the risk threshold that ASHTO sets for critical bridges.
		And the Pier 17, which was struck by the DALI, was almost 15 times greater.
		So we recommended as a result of that that 30 bridge owners of 68 bridges conduct a vulnerability assessment to determine risk and if warranted take immediate action.
tom cole ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for that.
		Let me turn quickly.
		We've obviously had some incidents in our air travel that are concerning to all of us.
		And you've made several recommendations over the past decade, frankly, regarding aviation safety management system or SMS.
		While the FAA, I'm told, has implemented requirements for major airlines.
		We continue to see delays in extending some of these requirements to other aviation sectors, including manufacturers, maintenance facilities, smaller operations.
		Which of your specific recommendations do you think would be most important to apply across the board to ensure the maximum safety for the flying public?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Well, for SMS in particular, which you stated, we have recommendations on SMS across all modes of transportation.
		But in aviation in particular, the focus has been on commercial aviation.
		And the commercial airlines have had SMS since 2015, but it's been a very piecemeal approach across the aviation industry.
		For aviation manufacturers, there was a final rule issued in May of 2024, and that doesn't go into effect until 2027.
		So Boeing, for example, is in the early stages of implementing that, but it's the very early stages.
		For other sectors, Part 135, that's the charter and air taxis.
		They began the process of SMS at FAA, but that hasn't been finalized.
		Maintenance facilities, there's no requirement for that.
		Part 91, which are the air tours, also do not have requirements for safety management systems.
		It should be one level of safety for passengers.
		That's what we believe.
		And the piecemeal approach isn't working.
tom cole ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		I yield back.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you, Mr. Cole.
		Now the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Laura.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		And let me just follow up a bit on the findings by the 30 owners of the 68 bridges and the potential risks there.
		And I'll have more questions for the USDOT about their work to address your key findings.
		And I think it's critical to underline the important state-federal partnerships at work here.
		That includes collaboration by the board, USDOT, and other federal agencies, and state departments of transportation.
		What more can this committee do to make sure that we are supporting the collaboration and improving our oversight of these specific bridges?
		And there are a number of members here who have key bridges.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		For bridges itself, and a lot came out since our preliminary report, including a report from Johns Hopkins, and then we had a report on infrastructure showing bridges got a C-rating.
		It's not a matter of if, it is a matter of when something happens.
		Vessel collisions happen all the time with bridges, and we have to take proactive measures to ensure safety, whether it's Federal Highways Administration and partners with the bridge owners.
		In this case, for hardening bridges, it could be anything from dolphins, it could be fender systems.
		After our investigation of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Tampa, Florida in 1980, they made substantial improvements to their bridges, but that was also a vessel collision with a collapse and 35 people died.
		There were a lot of lessons learned there, and as a result of that investigations, a lot of improvements came, but now these bridge owners need to ensure that they're safe.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		I just would say I think it would be helpful if we could understand or make recommendations as it has to do with State Department of Transportation.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		In other words, to prevent rather than to react when something's significant as a loss of lives, you know, here or the 35, you know, and so I think that that focus would be helpful.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of our recommendations for these bridge owners, a lot of them are either in some cases the federal government, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in other cases, State Departments of Transportation.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me get to that question.
		I want to hear more about your experience with federal agencies, including obviously the U.S. Department of Transportation at this time.
		We have seen a termination of employees in the agencies.
		For DOT, 790 employees terminated.
		340 were from the FAA, 170 from Federal Highway Administration.
		More than 20 employees terminated from DOT's Office of the Inspector General, which we all know is a watchdog for waste fraud and abuse and who has had a hand in transportation as well.
		Although the majority of the investigations are conducted by the NTSB staff, you have to call on the expertise of other federal agencies to deal with fact-finding efforts, making recommendations to agencies such as DOT, as well as the, you reference the Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Coast Guard.
		What are some of the trade-offs that you see with these agencies during times of uncertainty where field and regional staffing become strained and operations may become overall unpredictable?
		Are you concerned about our ability to close out the thousands of transportation safety recommendations as there is a, in my view, an indiscriminate approach to cutting the federal workforce?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		It would be difficult for me to, as the chair of the NTSB, to understand the positions of these individuals for the Department of Transportation.
		We have 427 employees, and I will say that we didn't lose one probationary employee.
		We got hiring exemptions from the administration.
		We got an exemption from deferred resignation program.
		We got tremendous support and we continue to get support from the administration as a result of the hard work of our workforce.
		So we have not experienced any of that and I've maintained our work.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		I would love to, because you know my time will run out shortly, but that to understand what this means in terms of your relationships with the other agencies with which you need to do business to get information, et cetera, where you haven't had that experience of the laying off of employees.
		Other agencies have, which you directly relate to, which may have an impact.
		The other piece of this is whether or not you are prepared, you have an authorized level of funding, but no one could foresee some of these efforts which have happened.
		Would very much like to know what this means in terms of the resources that NTSB needs in order to be able to address the significant issues that have come your way.
		They weren't planned, but they've come your way and how you're going to be able to deal with it.
		That would be important for us to know.
		Thank you.
		I yield back.
unidentified		Thank you, gentlelady from Connecticut.
		Chair Hamandy, you mentioned in your testimony that it is your mission to basically advise, take data from serious incidents, and then make recommendations, though you have no authority to implement those.
		You have no authority to enforce such a recommendation.
		So let's go back to the mid-air collision that happened back on January the 29th.
		It involved a helicopter, and we have, up to that point, had had a lot of helicopter traffic up and down the Potomac, and particularly on what we now know as Route 4.
		But there had been recommendations, I'm assuming, made previously about the combination of helicopter traffic and passenger jet service flying into and out of Reagan National Airport.
		Had there been recommendations on helicopter traffic, specifically with regard to Route 4, which is right across the Potomac?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We had not issued any recommendations regarding Route 4, but certainly as part of this investigation, that is one of our big focus.
unidentified		So when you did your investigation, there were some pretty alarming conclusions made.
		Perhaps most alarming to me was the number of times, and I think this went back to like 2021, I can't remember, but four or five years, that the number of times where the separation horizontally and the separation vertically was very dangerous.
		And as I understand it, in vertical separation, less than 75 feet.
		So can you speak to the conclusions that your team has come up with in researching serious incidents prior to?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and what we did is we looked at FAA surveillance data and then voluntary reporting system data.
		So that's reporting from pilots, reporting from air traffic control.
		Those are voluntary reporting systems.
		And then there's a mandatory reporting system for occurrences and air traffic control.
		And what the data showed us is that there were 15,214 close proximity events from 2021 through 2024 at DCA between helicopters and planes.
unidentified		When federal agencies respond to your recommendations across the spectrum of them, not just particularly this case, what are the hesitancies involved in because I'm assuming they don't accept all the recommendations.
		They don't implement all of the recommendations.
		What are the various, and I'll use the word excuses, but what are the various reasons why many of the things that are recommended by the NTSB never find their way into certain protocols?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes they'll use cost.
unidentified		Cost.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That they'll say the cost is not justified by the benefits.
		I will say one thing that we're looking at as part of this investigation is ADS-B out and ADS-B in.
		ADS-B out is required for commercial aircraft and has been since 2020, but ADS-B-IN is not required.
		We've been on record since 2008 that ADS-B in should be mandated, but the FAA has used cost as a reason not to mandate that.
		What that would have done or could have done, and we'll look at that as part of this investigation, is the CRJ, the plane, had ADS-B out.
		It did not have ADS-B in, though American does have some Airbus planes that do have ADS-B in, that could have provided them some information about the helicopter positioning and flight path, but that information was not available to them.
		We'll look at how ADS-B in could have helped as well as out, including an air traffic control throughout our investigation.
unidentified		Of all of the data-driven conclusions that were made, including the vertical and horizontal separation, what was most alarming to you?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I think what is most alarming to me, well, two things, that you had reporting over years.
		In fact, there was data going back to 2011 that traffic collision alerts were going off monthly as a result of close proximity to helicopters, and that's from 2011 through 2024.
		And so for me, all this data is being collected by FAA from operators, from others, from voluntary reporting systems.
		Where is that data going to trend potential accidents and incidents in the future?
		The next accident is in the data right now.
		And what are we doing to figure out what that is?
		The other most alarming to me is how nobody figured out, based on the glide slope going into runway 3.3, that if you look at the helicopter route that there's only 75 feet of separation between a plane coming in to runway 3.3 max.
		That's 75 feet max.
		That route doesn't have lateral boundaries.
		So and and in fact in this case the helicopter was to the right of the route, so it's a very small margin if for error.
unidentified		Thank you, mr Cliburn.
		Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Chairman Cole, Ranking Member De LaRoe, and members of the committee.
		Thank you all so much.
		And thank you very much.
		I want you to note on last evening I submitted my opening statement that I would hope that will be entered into the record.
		But there's one particular thing in the opening statement I would like to emphasize.
		But let me first join you in welcoming the chair here today.
		I always stumble over pronouncing her name.
		Thank you so much.
		And Board Member Brown, it's good to see you, a longtime friend.
		And as we say down south, homeboy, thank you so much for being here.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		In fact, the part of my opening statement I want to emphasize here just for a moment is this.
		My belief that safety is non-negotiable is not a nice thing to have, but rather a bare minimum as a necessity.
		And private profit should not be at the expense of the public safety and security of our transportation systems and the American people.
		Now, I travel back and forth to South Carolina weekly, and I become very familiar with your board in large part because often I shared the seat with Chair Sumwalt, who chaired this board through several administrations.
unidentified		And we talked a lot about your duties and responsibilities.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		And particularly, I'm concerned about this whole question of efficiency.
		And as the chair will tell you, I'm a stickler for effectiveness.
		That's the E that I'm particularly concerned with.
		And so, in view of the fact that in order for you to effectively do your job, there must be interactions with other agencies.
		We had a roundtable in here yesterday when all the talk was about silos.
unidentified		You cannot operate in a silo.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		If I were to take the home county of Mr. Brown Beerfoot, the Marine Air Station is located on one side of a bridge.
unidentified		Paris Island is on the other side of the bridge.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		The Naval Hospital is two or three bridges.
		So, in order for you to do your job, you've got to interact with several other agencies.
		And so, when we start talking about buildings of efficiency and getting rid of staff, it seems to me that you are going to be challenged or could be challenged very significantly in Carnot's duties and responsibilities.
		So, if you could tell me just a little bit about staffing in your agency, I know that you have not had to reduce anybody, but have you made any projections as to what's going to be required going forward, what it's going to cost for you to interact with these other agencies, to step outside of your comfort zone a little bit to add safety and security to your job,
unidentified		the results of your job.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		Have you done any of that in your preparations for the future?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yes, so right now, at the end of the year, we had 440 employees, and I brought that up from high 300s when I came in as chair.
		But since the end of the year, we've lost some employees to retirement or they went to the private sector, so we're down to 427.
		You've given us the ability to go up to 450, and we're hiring.
		We have a hiring exemption right now, and 14 jobs currently that are posted on the USA jobs to bring in personnel.
		The hiring exemption currently applies to our investigative staff and maybe a couple of staff outside that, like training specialists.
		But in order to bring in people, I still need the support team at the NTSB.
		I can't lose them.
		I need people in the CFO.
		I need people, chief financial officer, I need people in CIO for information technology.
		I need people who can hire.
		I need people who are focused on the safety and health of our employees.
		So that support team, I don't have that hiring exemption for them at this time, but it's something that I can request.
		Right now, our focus is on the investigative staff because we have a pretty big workload and we have hiring exemptions there.
		But to get to full staffing, we really need to get to between 485 and 500 personnel.
		That would get us to full staffing, which is why we have requested for FY26 more funding than we're currently authorized for.
		So we're authorized for 148.
		We are hoping for 156 or as close as we can to it because we need to get to that higher level because we have such a we run lean, we have a short bench.
		I mean, Clint Cruikshanks behind me, he is a structural engineer.
		He was at the door plug 1282, DCA.
		He's got one backup.
		We are looking to hire two more, but he has a caseload of 20 other cases.
		So what we risk, first of all, I will say when we hire, these are highly skilled professionals.
		These are experts in their field.
		And so getting them is a challenge.
		Retaining them is a challenge if they're burning out because they're on duty 365 days a year and constantly missing family engagements, holidays, you name it.
		We had a number of investigators that spent Thanksgiving overseas.
		So our biggest risk right now, because our personnel makes us the gold standard for accident investigations, our biggest risk is not having that redundancy in our personnel.
		And that's what we're looking to accomplish and growing.
unidentified		Before I go to thank you.
		Before I go to Sheriff Rutherford, just anecdotally, and life comes at your members, your staff, just like life comes at all of us.
		And as it is in regard to your structural gentleman behind you, he lost his mom right in the middle of this whole aircraft investigation incident over the Potomac.
		So and you don't just hire people like this gentleman off the street.
		It does take some time to have their credentials.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		It also takes about three to five years in training to get the new hires up to be able to take over a major investigation.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That is a significant investment on our part.
unidentified		Sheriff Rutherford.
		Thank you, Mr. Chair, Chairman Cole, and Ranking Member Nalara.
		And thank you, Chair Hamindee, for being here this morning.
		And I'd be remiss if I didn't point out and say hello to my former mayor, Alvin Brown.
		Great to see you again, Mayor.
		I want to go back to the report that you released in the middle of the Francis Scott Key investigation.
		Because that to me is highly unusual for you all to do that, which means you're thinking there's a real serious issue here that we need to be paying attention to.
		And so when I look at this report, it becomes even more important to me when I see one of my major bridges, the Dames Point, the Napoleon Bonaparte Dames Point Bridge, is on that report, and it's part of the I-295 infrastructure.
		Hundreds of cars sit on that bridge every day, twice a day.
		And I see under the classification, it's critical and essential.
		And so can you tell me, is that a description of the bridge's function or is that a classification of the bridge's danger?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That's a classification that ASHTO, the state highway transportation officials, give to bridges.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		In their guide, in their standard, they designate bridges either as critical, essential, meaning passengers have to get, it's a key corridor, it's a key route.
unidentified		So it's more of the use than the.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		And then there's others that are typical.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		But there's also a tremendous amount of exposure on this bridge because it sits in between, it cuts right through our Jacksport operation, which is shipping coming in and out all day, every day, and it literally splits the port.
		So I'm really going to go back and get with FDOT after your testimony and find out what we're doing in regards to that.
		So I thank you for that.
		Are there any critical next steps that you think we in Congress can do to expedite the number of, what, 68, 69 bridges that haven't been evaluated yet?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Just to encourage bridge owners and to work with the Federal Highway Administration and the U.S. Coast Guard and Army Corps of Engineers, who we also recommended to help provide guidance and assistance to the states in order to do their vulnerability assessments.
		We're not saying these are bridges that are at risk of collapse if there's a vessel collision.
		What we're saying is to figure it out.
		Look and see if it is at risk.
		Do those mathematical calculations.
		And if you determine there is, then you have that information where you can take proactive action before something terrible occurs.
unidentified		Let me ask, as a former first responder myself, I've worked closely with your team on several severe incidents that occurred in our jurisdiction.
		But I never, and sometimes it was fits and starts, it depended who showed up, how smoothly everything went.
		Is there any type of training that we could support for NTSB to work with some state and local first responders on how we can prepare scenes for you before you show up, those sorts of things that we can be a force multiplier for you before your investigators do show up?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Well, Eric Grossoff, who is our Chief of Special Operations, is going to be really happy you asked that question because he in particular, he runs our response operations center, and his entire focus is reaching out to law enforcement and firefighters to educate them on what the NTSB's process is and how they can be helpful.
		My dream would be, or my goal would be to give him additional personnel, four or five people, so that he can split up the country and they could be very focused in regions on helping train first responders to be able to be to work with them on the initial stages of an accident.
		We do that now.
		I actually speak at a course at the FBI training center in Quantico that is focused on law enforcement officers in hopes of developing that relationship before something tragic occurs.
unidentified		Very good.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Also, it's the four or five people would be, we estimate with training about 200,000 per employee because of travel and everything else.
		That's not there.
		That's not how much they make.
		So it's a small investment with a big payoff.
		We appreciate that.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Mr. Chairman, I see my time is up.
		I yield back.
		But I will tell you, I think that's something that we really need to look at.
		Talk about bang for your buck.
		Before the NTSB even gets there, we can be working for them.
		And so I'd appreciate a look at that.
		Good point.
		Thank you, Sheriff.
		Ms. Watson Coleman.
		Thank you, Chairman, and thank you very much for the work that you all do.
		You had indicated that there had been 1,500 near collisions near the airspace around the Reagan airport.
		Is that for the last couple of years?
		Did I get that right?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		15,214 close proximity events.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That doesn't mean that they were near collisions, but close proximity events where the vertical and lateral separation was too small of a margin.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		That was dating back to 21?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		21 to 2024.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Were you, did your organization make observations about how to improve those particular threats of safety?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We just issued urgent recommendations to the FAA, which they did swiftly adopt, to prohibit helicopter traffic while planes are landing or departing on runway 15 and runway 33, and to determine an alternative route that could be in use while aircraft are coming in on that runway.
unidentified		May I ask, when were those recommendations made?
unidentified		Was that after this particular collision?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That was on March 11th.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We issued urgent safety recommendations as a result of our investigation.
unidentified		So that's after the collision?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Even though this has been a problem, this sort of proximity issue has been a problem since at least 2021 that we've been tracking.
unidentified		Is that right?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We were not tracking that.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		As part of our investigation, we got that data from FAA as part of our investigation, and that's what we were able to begin basing our urgent safety recommendations on.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Total out of the box question.
		My understanding is that there is a concept called single pilot operations, and that there are European countries that are considering this.
		This results in reducing crew operations during cruise.
		From a safety perspective, do you have a position on this?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We have not issued a recommendation on two pilots.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		However, in the Austin Near Miss investigation, we had a finding that said the pilots in the FedEx plane, which were two, it was the two pilots and the fact that there were two pilots that really saved the day that day and prevented a collision and potential fatalities.
unidentified		So, some of us who are like being told all the time flying is the safest way of traveling, we're scared right now, actually.
		One last question that I want to understand: was there the President of the United States made a really very poor, unsubstantiated lack of evidence comment about this particular collision at Reagan, and he said that it was related to DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion?
		I know that's crazy, but did you find anything in the investigation thus far that would support that notion that this accident happened because of diversity, equity, and inclusion?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I was in the Oval Office that morning and met with the President and the Vice President and Secretary Heckseth and Secretary Duffy and the FAA administrator.
		And I did go to the press briefing.
		The president held a moment of silence.
		He talked about the focus on safety for the investigation.
		He talked about having a report quickly.
unidentified		Because my time has expired.
		I just need you to answer that particular aspect of my question.
		Was there a legitimate reason for the president to associate the tragedy that took place with diversity, equity, and inclusion, which means that we weren't holding pilots to be all white, straight males?
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Yes or no.
unidentified		Yes or no is the answer.
unidentified		Was there anything?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I can't speak for the president, and we haven't finished our investigation.
unidentified		Okay, well, I do hope that when you finish your investigation that there was a preliminary report.
unidentified		Did your preliminary report include anything about that?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We still have to evaluate all training and qualifications documents.
unidentified		Let me just tell you, this is not the time to allow these misstatements to be made and to be unaccounted for because it negatively impacts both what the general public thinks and is concerned about, but it also impacts the people who are trying to do their jobs.
		And there's nothing that we have found that diversity, equity, and inclusion has created negatively in people doing their job.
		On the contrary, loyalty and sick offense seems to be the order of the day, and it's definitely negatively impacting this federal government doing its job.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I do yield back.
		I try to be very generous in how I preside.
		But it's time to move on.
		Ms. Beisch.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Chair Hamindi, for being with us this morning.
		I first want to start out.
		You mentioned that you had issued an urgent safety recommendation to close Route 4 on March the 11th.
		There was a previous recommendation to close Route 4 through the end of March, as I understand it.
		How long is this urgent safety recommendation going to be in place?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So the Route 4 closure was actually FAA's decision.
		That's something that Secretary Duffy did voluntarily to address safety once this collision occurred.
		That was going to be in place until March 31st, and he was waiting to get our preliminary report to see what we came up with.
		So we were in close communications, and as a result of that, we did identify some serious safety issues and issue that urgent safety recommendation to close that.
unidentified		And do you know, is that in effect in perpetuity or what timeframe will that be in effect?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Secretary Duffy has adopted the recommendations, and my understanding is right now it is permanent.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		But certainly it is up to them if they want to look for an alternative route.
unidentified		Great.
		I had the great pleasure of visiting with you and your staff, and I was so incredibly impressed with the job that you and your team are doing, and particularly Clint, your investigative lead there, who is really phenomenal and such a wealth of knowledge.
		And I think that leads me to maybe a follow-up line of questioning as it relates to employees and staffing.
		The people that work at your organization have such incredible experience.
		It takes time.
		I believe Clint is a structural engineer by trade, if I remember correctly.
		And so taking that knowledge and being able to utilize it to examine these accidents and figure out how to keep the public safe is time consuming.
		You talked already a little bit about staffing issues.
		Tell me, what is your plan to try to hire more of these folks with this specialized background and keep them in your organization?
		This is a very stressful job.
		It is time consuming, as you mentioned, with families, but they're seeing a lot of really terrible things.
		And so what are you going to do to be able to not only recruit folks to join your organization, but to keep them?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Well, we do a lot of outreach.
		We work with different parties.
		So part of our investigative process and how we work collaboratively on safety is our party process.
		And what that is, is anyone that can provide technical expertise in an investigation becomes a party to the investigation to help us develop the facts.
		Part of that working relationship, a lot of people find that they want to come to the NTSB.
		We're a great workforce.
		We're a great place to work.
		We want to keep them.
		We also want to prevent burnout as well, which I think is a real concern.
		My ideal would be able to have a situation where Clint or Sean, who runs our recorders division, or Sarah, who is part of the family assistance team, can take time off to be with their families and not be in rotation and have a backup, some redundancy there so others can come in so that we can keep them at the NTSB.
unidentified		Is there a request from Congress that will allow you to be able to do that?
unidentified		Is it just additional funding, or are there other things that we could do to be helpful in that way?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		What would be helpful, 70% of our budget is our workforce.
		And so, a lot of agencies need billions of dollars.
		What I need for FY26 is between $150 million and $156 million.
		$156 million is what I asked for, million, not billion, M, not a B, M.
		And that will help us get towards that full staffing level that helps keep our workforce that is highly skilled.
		They could go anywhere and make millions of dollars.
		Don't do it.
		But they could, and that's what we lose.
		I mean, frankly, during telework, we were losing a bunch of employees to other agencies that had more flexible telework programs.
		Now we're able, now people want to come to us.
		So I think that speaks very highly of our workforce, but we do need funding.
unidentified		And one last quick question before my time expires.
		You mentioned there's currently over a thousand open recommendations that you all have made as a result of your investigations.
		Can you tell us how the NTSB coordinates with DOT and other agencies on these recommendations?
		You said you don't have enforcement authority nor do you want it, regulatory oversight, but tell us how you make sure that these recommendations are actually being adopted.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So we have a safety recommendations team.
		Actually, most of our recommendations don't go to federal agencies.
		Most of them are to the entities that may be involved with our investigations, or say a local fire department or state responders.
		There might be state police.
		So we issue recommendations to many different entities.
		And throughout the investigation, our biggest hope is we don't issue a safety recommendation that they improve safety through the investigation.
		But we do have an entire team focused on implementing our safety recommendations.
		And they meet quarterly with, say, the federal agencies to figure out how they're meeting them.
		One thing people don't realize is just because we issue a safety recommendation doesn't mean you're stuck with that safety recommendation.
		We are open to an alternative.
		FIMSA, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration and DOT, is an expert at this.
		They come back and say, we can't do this because we're not going to be able to implement it this way.
		How about we do it this way?
		And then we reconsider the recommendation and say, great, that's an alternative that will meet the intent of that recommendation.
		So we actually encourage, when we talk about cost, we encourage agencies and others to come back to us with some alternative.
		It doesn't mean we know everything about their operations.
		They may know something we don't know.
		So please tell us.
		Is there a different way to do it?
unidentified		Mr. Chair, I appreciate the extra time, and with that, I yield.
		Mr. Joyce.
		I want to switch a little bit on you, if you don't mind.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Oops.
unidentified		I got it.
		I got it.
		Thank you very much.
		Glad someone's looking out for me.
		Thank you for being here.
		But my question goes back to Chairman.
		A little over two years ago, the Norfolk Southern Train derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, spilling the toxic chemicals, as you know, that continue to affect the health of the local communities today.
		Your investigation in the vent and burn of all five derailed VCM tanks addressed the communication and decision-making processes that led to the vent and burn and the availability of sound criteria for when a vent and burn is appropriate.
		Can you give the committee an update on your recommendations for ensuring the proper assessment of when to use vent and burn procedures in the event of an emergency?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		That recommendation is still being implemented by Norfolk Southern, and we continue to follow up.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		It's not something that they have fully developed yet, but it is something that we are monitoring and encouraging them to implement.
unidentified		Now, have you seen any of these recommendations implemented by other rail systems and or their contractors since your report was released last June?
		No.
		Thank you.
		Recognize East Palestinians and surrounding areas have obviously growing concerns that there will be long-term health effects because of the exposure to these chemicals.
		Recognizing that your staff has incredibly demanding schedules, therefore time constraints, how long does staff work with families impacted by disasters like East Palestine?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So we currently are working with 1,187 families with active about 470, I think, right now, cases.
		But we, from the initial stages of the investigation, when we are on scene, we are meeting with the families within when they arrive.
		It could be within 24, 48 hours, but we begin that communication and we carry that through the course of the investigation.
		Anytime there are updates, they get notice first.
		Anytime there are recommendations prior to the final report, we talk with them and meet with them.
		And then sometimes families become advocates for safety and want to work with us to implement our safety recommendations.
		And so they'll work with us for years to implement those safety recommendations.
		And we really cherish those relationships.
unidentified		We've certainly seen that in East Palestine.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in East Palestine, in the conception dive boat in California, where the families of the 34 who died are still working for change.
unidentified		So if I'm hearing you correctly, then your agency doesn't stop when the report is issued.
unidentified		It continues to work through as they receive further information.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yes, so well past preliminary report through the final report.
		And then once the final report is issued, family members, some want to become advocates for safety, some don't.
		And then our safety advocacy team will work with them to coordinate for implementation of our recommendations.
unidentified		I want to switch up again on you.
		Though 34 states have changed their laws regarding legal marijuana, it's still illegal everywhere to drive while intoxicated.
		In a 2022 report, your researchers found that current testing practices and protocols need to be improved to better detect a driver's drug use and accurately report the prevalence of drug-impaired driving.
		The lack of a standardized drug testing and reporting hinders understanding of the issue and development of policies that can reduce impaired driving as well as treatment options for those with substance abuse disorders.
		We need to be doing more research, especially in the development of tools that will help identify the presence of drugs in drivers and themselves and others by them operating these vehicles endangered the motoring public.
		What does the NTSB recommend other federal agencies and state governments do to address the rise in drug-impaired driving accidents, especially as more communities across the U.S. are beginning to legalize recreational marijuana and be subjected to this?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we have long worked against drug-impaired driving.
		We work with states.
		We recently did an investigation in Oklahoma where some teens died and it involved drug-impaired driving.
		And actually, we had found that there, and this is really across the United States.
		I'm sure you all remember that when we all went to school, we had driver education as part of our school curriculum.
		And it was pretty robust.
		Today, that education doesn't occur.
		So for teens that died in Oklahoma, we had found that that driver education around drug-impaired driving did not occur.
		Now they put that back in place, but that doesn't occur across our country.
		What's very interesting is that organizations have done some research and have found that for teen drivers in particular, teen drivers, a third of them think it is legal to drive after intaking marijuana.
		25% of adults usage has gone up significantly, and we need to do a number of things, including testing protocols, training for law enforcement officers so they can detect drug-impaired driving, increased enforcement, and then training itself for the public.
unidentified		I wholeheartedly agree with you.
unidentified		And what's even more disturbing is the crap that they sell at local gas stations to underage kids without any regulation that creates much worse effects and puts these kids out on the motoring highway with no concept of what's going wrong.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I have a 17-year-old.
		I understand.
		And I worry about it all the time.
		And usage has gone up significantly.
		It was not too long ago.
		I believe I saw five years ago, it was 20 million Americans were using American marijuana.
		Now it's up to 64 million.
		The usage has skyrocketed.
		And meanwhile, we have drivers who think it's legal.
		I mean, we've all been at traffic lights in D.C. where somebody pulls up and you can smell it.
		It's awful.
		And a terrible, terrible tragedies that we have investigated over and over again involving marijuana, other drugs, and then alcohol, of course.
unidentified		Thank you very much for your work.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Mr. Strong.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Chairman Womack and Ranking Member Claiborne for holding this important hearing today, as well as Chairman Homity for your continued commitment to public service and safety.
		Chairman Homity, Alabama is currently assigned to the NTSB's Eastern Regional Office, whose headquarters and personnel are based in Washington, D.C. My colleague Mr. Rutherford mentioned working with first responders.
		How does the NTSB ensure that its investigators working in regions like Alabama are fully familiar with the local governance, geography, and other factors that impact investigations?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Well, first, I'm pleased to tell you that my daughter's number one is a college in Alabama right now.
		So I was just in Alabama visiting a few of them.
		I might not say which one because I'm not sure which side you're on there.
		But for our investigators, we have investigators in the headquarters, but we also have a number of our investigators that are stationed around the United States.
		And I will specifically look on Alabama to see who might be in that area.
		But where we can, our regional investigators that do the regional investigations, we do have others across the country.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		In North Alabama, the most recent NTSB investigation required close coordination with several local agencies, including the Scottsboro City Fire and Police Department, Hollywood, Alabama Fire Department, and Jackson County Emergency Management.
		How frequently does NTSB conduct joint training exercises or professional development initiatives with state and local agencies to ensure both investigators and first responders are well prepared to handle emerging incidents and are fully integrated into the investigative process?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I would have to get you exact figures, and I can do that for the record.
		However, we do a lot of training with law enforcement and fire personnel, and we would like to do a lot more.
		We think it's critical.
		Right now, we'll have first responders who call us and report accidents and say, what should we do here?
		Others who have developed relationships with us.
		So we do think it's critical.
		I'll get you figures.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Chair Homody, in your written testimony, you highlighted the importance of enhancing the NTSB's use of data to drive greater effectiveness and innovation.
		Huntsville, Alabama is the largest city in the state of Alabama, 40 years as a firefighter, assistant chief, emergency medical technician.
		Over the years, we've worked well with NTSB to investigate airplane crashes, helicopter crashes, and even a school bus crash that critically injured 31 teenagers on one of our interstates.
		When an accident occurs, is there a centralized system or shared database where all relevant agencies, including the NTSB, can access and review the same data?
		How does the NTSB ensure that there is no overlap of work and prevent duplicative efforts in data review?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So the NTSB for aviation accidents, we are the holders.
		All aviation accidents are reported to the NTSB and we take that information and we include them in a database.
		We also have a database for all the other modes of transportation that the public can access and we're always looking to make improvements and get input on where we can make improvements.
		It's not duplicative.
		It's very focused on our investigations, the ones that we conduct.
		For aviation, it's all of them.
		For the other modes, it's only the ones that we're conducting.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		When conflicting data arises between agency, who has the final say on which information is considered the most accurate and reliable?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I would have to say it depends on which data you're referencing.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		As you mentioned, the National Transportation Safety Board relies on highly skilled staff to conduct accident investigations.
		As the NTSB investigators near retirement age, what strategies does NTSB have to incentivize, recruit, train, and retain the next generation of investigators to carry out the mission effectively?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We do have strategic plans.
		One thing that we would like to do is human capital planning.
		In order to do that, it would take that and a skills assessment.
		It would take about $1.5 to $2 million, which is pretty significant for us, but it's something that we do want to undertake.
		We have looked across the modes and all the offices to figure out where the biggest gaps are and gotten input from all the directors for that.
		But we can do a better job.
		We can do a better job.
		And we want to do a better job at recruiting, training, and retaining our workforce.
		When I say that we need more resources, it comes with we have to make improvements as well.
		We have to be accountable for making those improvements, and that includes being able to have the best workforce out there.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		In closing, I want to thank you for your leadership, the NTSB board members, and the entire team for their faithful service to our country.
		I remember well a quote made by former board member Deborah Hershman at a critical scene that I was at at a tragic investigation that we worked together.
unidentified		She told the media, we will investigate what went right that will lead to what went wrong.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		I thank each of you for the job that you do.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		And my daughter graduated from Auburn in May, and my son's a junior at Auburn, but we would like them Crimson Tide to get away from the family.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I did get some good lemonade there.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I did get some good lemonade there.
unidentified		Tomorrow's corner.
		Honestly, I expected him to put in a plug for Athens State University.
		He's a proud bear.
		So, but in this I can tell you, he's going to be rooting against BYU on Thursday, and he's going to be rooting against Michigan on Friday.
		I can only hope that late Thursday night he'll be rooting for my Razorbacks.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Very informative hearing, and thank each of you for what you do for our country.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you, Dale.
		Welcome, by the way, to the subcommittee.
		Ms. DeLauro, we're going to do a lightning round.
		Let's go two or three minutes.
		And any remaining questions?
		Sure.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
		And just a couple of points and then a question.
		I just wanted to make reference to the comment by the President, Vice President, Secretary of Defense on DEI as responsible for the crash, and which is, let's take a look at who the air traffic controllers are.
		16% of them are women, 36% of them are veterans.
		If you want to maintain morale and you want to maintain the commitment, the dedication, and the knowledge, et cetera, then you just don't make offhanded comments that talk about DEI as being responsible for a crash which killed 67 people.
		It's just unbelievable that that would be the statement.
		Secondly, I want to just get back at the issue of staffing.
		I understand that there are 554 open recommendations for DOT and the various modes.
		And aviation, there's 188.
		And on the highways piece, it's about 187.
		So those are the two biggest pieces.
		And what I asked earlier on: 790 employees terminated, 340 from FAA, 170 from Federal Highways Administration.
		If you are working with these agencies, we have to understand and know what those terminations of that staffing.
		You talked about your staff and those who are protected, not protected, but we have to know from you because it's saving lives.
		This is not a matter of buying a helicopter and so forth, but this is saving lives.
		But if there is an impact on your agency with the loss of personnel in these other places that help you do your job, which you do very well, it's a gold standard, but it was a gold standard with a full complement of people working there.
		That is information that we really need to have.
		And I'm asking you, I'd like to get, we can speak offline or we can talk about this, but I think it's critically important for us to know what is happening with the terminations in this area that affect your ability to save people's lives.
		Now, the other piece of that, if you can answer, are we then now transferring this effort, which you do, to states to close out the recommendations?
		Are we saying we can't, the state departments of transportation have to do that so that we're not then saying the federal government isn't going to be there, but we're going to rely on the states.
		A lot of that is happening in this area.
		So a lot of that pushing stuff to the states is what's on the agenda.
		So with regard to that and what you do and those recommendations, how are they going to get carried out?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		It depends on the recommendation, but for our recommendations, right now, we are working with personnel at the Department of Transportation, other federal agencies and state agencies.
		We have not seen an impact on our investigations at this time or our recommendations.
		However, if there is one, I will commit to notifying the committee if we see any sort of negative effect.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		What role is the state taking on?
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Are you pushing things to the state to deal with regard to the recommendations?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		You said we're not pushing anything to the states, but we might have recommendations to states to improve state laws in a certain area.
		I had mentioned Oklahoma with the drug-impaired driving.
		We encourage the state of Oklahoma to make improvements to teen driver education, and they made that through their efforts through the State Department, their Oklahoma Department of Transportation.
		Those are the types of state initiatives.
		Drunk driving, we have a long-standing recommendation for states to go to 0.05 instead of 0.08.
		That is something for a recommendation that goes to all the states.
rosa delauro ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Mr. Chair.
unidentified		Thank the gentlelady.
		My final question: I'm reminded of the famous movie, The Wizard of Oz, when Dorothy was talking about lions, tigers, and bears.
		Oh my, the threats that she perceived that she was facing.
		I can only imagine what your break room is like when new technology, emerging technology, and I'm talking about things like drones, vertical takeoff and landing, driverless cars and trucks, things that could pose, could pose a threat to the transportation safety of this country and the world.
		Can you look into your crystal ball and tell us where the next real threats are going to come from that could cause your agency to have to be spun up and conduct another major investigation?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it could really happen in any mode of transportation.
		Certainly, there are emerging technologies in each mode of transportation, many of which you mentioned.
		But our agency is ready.
		We have technology ourselves, but we're constantly evolving as new technology comes out.
		We have needs there as well.
		We're making sure that our employees are ready from a standpoint of training.
		We do want to increase our investment in training for our employees.
		But it's tough to say in my crystal ball because I look across all modes of transportation and see that there could be significant disasters in any of those modes.
		What I will say, and I know there's been a lot of focus on aviation, our biggest contributor to fatalities right now in transportation is on our roads.
		Over 40,000 people are dying on our nation's roads every year, millions injured.
		You know, we talk about transportation accidents as single accidents, but every day, an average of 112 people are dying on our roads.
		112 people, and we don't blink an eye.
		There is so much we have to do to improve road safety across the U.S., and we have so many recommendations on that.
		If we can get that number down, that would be significant.
		That's 95% of all transportation fatalities.
unidentified		Mr. Clyburn talked about silos, how agencies perform in silos, and I think it's wise for an organization like yours that's going to be on the receiving end of the next tragedy that's going to happen for you guys to be invited into some of those silos to help forestall maybe or prevent some of the future tragic accidents from happening.
		Mr. Clyburn.
		Well, let me extend on that silo business for a moment.
		I'm going to be hopping on this for a long time.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Chairman, I made the mistake of spending some time with air traffic controllers.
unidentified		I'm never going up in one of those things again.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		I met with them two days ago, turned down all invitations because I really, really feel that not enough focus is placed on air traffic controllers.
unidentified		I think they're tremendously understaffed.
		I know where the training takes place.
		And I'm all right with that.
		We need to expand, either they need to build one in South Carolina or expand that facility in Oklahoma, wherever it is.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that you're reporting on your studies.
unidentified		Well, let me just put it this way.
		I'm haunted by the fact that talked about tragedy in Washington here.
		There was only one controller in the tower when it happened.
		That's the reporting.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea whether or not that's true, and I understand from the reporting that that was not unusual.
unidentified		But you talked about two pilots.
		I don't know.
		Is it true there's only one at the time?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		No, there were five at the time in the tower.
		There were nine on duty.
		What you might be referring to is the combining of positions.
		There were six at one point during the day before 3.40 p.m. where actually it could have been seven because they combined the position for clearance delivery and flight data, which is not uncommon, but they did combine positions for the helicopter position and the local traffic position into one.
		The person didn't leave, so it went down to five controllers at the time of the accident.
		That combined position was at 3.40 p.m.
		It stayed that way.
		The person went on break, came back into rotation at 4.27 p.m.
		But in total, there were nine people on duty that day.
unidentified		There were nine people in the tower?
unidentified		I'm not sure.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Five.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Five in the cab.
unidentified		At the time of the accident.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
unidentified		Okay.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know why that reporting is out there, but it's been out there pretty extensively, and I've been haunted by that.
unidentified		In talking with them, air traffic controllers, they tell me that they are tremendously understaffed.
unidentified		Tremendously understaffed.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand how this country will tolerate air traffic controllers being tremendously understaffed.
		There's a problem with that that I would hope that in your reporting of your studies that you will take a look outside of your silo and see what is happening with air traffic controllers and make some recommendations as to what we ought to be doing.
		That to me is a very serious problem.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		We have a number of investigators that focus on air traffic control at the NTSB.
		As part of this investigation, we have an entire investigative group focused on air traffic control.
		They're going to be looking at everything from staffing to changes in staffing over time at DCA to whether there should be more staffing.
		They'll look at operations at DCA in total and over time.
		So they are former air traffic controllers that are working on this, and it will be part of our investigation.
unidentified		Mr. Meisch, you have a comment?
		Yeah, I just want to say, first of all, thank you to Secretary Duffy for coming to the FAA facility, Mike Monroe Air Nautical Center in Oklahoma, looking at the facility, recognizing that part of the challenge is technology, that we need to be investing in technology, and he has made a commitment to FAA that that is going to happen.
		And secondly, you know, one of the challenges we have is recruiting and retaining these FAA air traffic controllers because it's a very long process.
		It can take five months to two years just to clear medical training.
		Then you have the training itself.
		Then you are assigned to an airport and you have to work your way up.
		We have not done the best job, in my opinion, of filling that pipeline adequately.
		And I do think that Secretary Duffy is very on target with his plan to try to address this issue quickly.
		And I welcome the expansion of the FAA Center in Oklahoma City.
		With that, I yield.
		And with that shameless plug, we're going to go back to the sheriff.
		Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
		Just briefly, I will say, because this has been brought up, the President's remarks about DEI hiring having created some of the shortfall of the air traffic controllers.
		There's a class action lawsuit about this issue.
		And in fact, under the Obama administration, they changed their assessments from a skill-based assessment to a biographical assessment.
		They have now gone back as a result of actions by this Congress, well, not this Congress, but the one before.
		And so that 3,800 shortage that the FAA is looking at in ATS controllers is a result of qualified people being denied employment for DEI reasons.
		And that's why I think the President made that reference.
		I yield back.
		Mr. Joyce.
		Get our mic going.
		We're going to switch to topics on you yet again.
		According to your recommendation related to the Baltimore Bridge collapse, Ohio has five bridges that require an assessment of their vulnerability to vessel strike-related collapse.
		What were the most common issues or inconsistencies with the current vulnerability assessment requirements that led the NTSB to identify the 68 bridges in need of evaluation?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So we looked, we worked with the Federal Highway Administration to determine our list of bridges.
		We started with a much bigger list and focused on ocean-going vessels in navigable waterways and then began limiting that list and came down to 68 that had not done vulnerability assessments of their bridges prior to recommendations by ASHTO in 1991 and 2009,
		which those recommendations were to look at your existing bridges and to do a vulnerability assessment.
		The vulnerability assessment was created in 1991 and updated in 2009.
		And at the time, they said for existing bridges that they should go back and do those vulnerability assessments.
		So we're recommending out of these 68 bridges that they go back and do that assessment.
		And there's pretty substantial data that they're going to have to put into that assessment.
		Some of the states may have done it and we don't know, or I'm sorry, the bridge owners may have done it and we don't know yet, but we know that they need to, we felt so strongly about this that we issued an urgent safety recommendation so that they would determine risk and report that back to the NTSB and then take proactive measures to ensure safety.
unidentified		Do you foresee the NTSB then issuing further guidance on how bridge owners can reduce their risk or should bridge owners wait for guidance and risk education system from the Federal Highway Administration, the Coast Guard, or the Army Corps?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So there is a guidance already out there by ASHTO, the state highway transportation officials that's that's there, including how to do the method two calculations.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		The assistance would be helping them in getting the data, which is where the Federal Highway Administration, the Coast Guard, and the Army Corps of Engineer can be most helpful.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Ms. Meisch.
		Mr. Strong.
		Mr. Strong, bring us home.
dale strong ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		And I'm going to bring it home quick.
		Number one, I wouldn't jeopardize an investigation under any circumstance, but the facts are 67 people lost their life at Reagan National.
		Greater than 850 takeoffs and landings happen every day at Reagan National Airport.
		My understanding, an air traffic controller is or was designated to solely do air traffic control for helicopters until 9.30 p.m. nightly.
		Was this air traffic control helicopter air traffic control in their position the night of the crash or had they left their post?
		The final report will answer most of these questions and we await the completion of your investigation and I think that will answer all the questions that members of Congress and the families that lost loved ones have.
		Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
unidentified		Yeah, thank you.
		In a good way to bring this hearing to a close.
		In the report that will come out, we can all have great confidence that it's going to be a highly professional, thorough, very detailed, conclusive report.
		And to that, Ms. Homindy, we are eternally grateful for what you and your team do.
		I want to ask you one final question.
		What did we not ask you today that we should have?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Would you like to be an NTSB investigator?
		Because that is always the last question that we ask in all of our interviews.
		Would you like to hear what we need again for FY26?
unidentified		You know, you're talking to the people who will ultimately, I mean, we'll get a budget.
		We'll be presented a budget.
		And we know what happens to most of those presidential budgets, but eventually the Appropriations Committee, if in fact we can get back to regular order, will have to make some of the tough calls.
		So I think it's certainly within.
		The answer was $156 million.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		$156 million.
		We do need to get to full staffing.
		We need to provide the ability for our workforce.
		I'd like to increase training funds for our workforce, increase outreach to law enforcement and to firefighters, but that takes resources.
		We are very good stewards of our resources.
		I've gone through every single contract that we have to determine is there anything here that we need to change.
		But, you know, our and I will say, I did look at the cost for government requirements is going up.
		The cost alone for government mandates is $6.4 million to the NTSB from 2024.
		We looked across the agency.
		$6.4 million is pretty significant for a budget of $145 million.
		So, but here's what I will say.
		When we ask for increased funding, we know that we also have to improve performance.
		We always strive to do better.
		When I came in as chair, I met with all stakeholders and all modes of transportation, not to figure out what we were doing right, to figure out what we were doing wrong and how we could be better.
		And we've looked at our risks proactively, and we know what we need to address.
		We are not perfect, but we strive to do better every day for our workforce, for the taxpayer.
		I think it's critical.
		There are a lot of agencies right now that are maybe need to look at right-sizing agencies.
		But for the NTSB, we do run lean, and we are good stewards of our resources, but that comes with a requirement that we need to be held accountable as well for delivering our accident reports.
		Our recommendations, when I came in as chair, as you started, we had over 400, close to 480 accident investigations that were over two, three, four years old.
		We are now down to, well, we're down to, it fluctuates.
		Some days it will be five over, but it's usually for something that is not in our control.
		But we are down to zero.
		We eliminated that backlog because we invested in our workforce and we said we had to be held accountable for delivering on safety.
		And we take that very seriously, our role.
		I will say in closing, that this committee has been very supportive of the NTSB.
		Your staff has been incredible to work with.
		Each of you as members has been really supportive of our agency.
		And we really appreciate all your work.
		We know you have a difficult job to do.
		You have to balance a number of priorities.
		We just ask that you consider us among those priorities because an investment in us will save lives.
unidentified		Well, it's easy to invest in an organization that's highly capable, highly competent, and well-led.
		Mr. Claverne, final remarks?
		Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
		Let me just say this.
		I'm not much of a moviegoer.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		Every Christmas I do show a sort of a historical movie to a group that I spend the holidays with.
unidentified		And one of those this past Christmas, Six Triple H.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		I would recommend that my colleague take a look at that movie and see what DEI is all about.
unidentified		I didn't see The Red Tails, which was the movie made about the Tuskegee Airmen.
		I think we have to, DEI is something we ought to be very, very careful about.
		Those Tuskegee Airmen gave service to this country.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		And most people you talk to coming out of World War II said that a lot of those fighter pilots would not fly unless those Tuskegee airmen were flying with them.
jim clyburn ▲ ● ▼		John Glenn would not go up on his flight in the safe in the space unless those four African American women signed off on it.
unidentified		So DEI is something we ought to be very careful about.
		And on that note, we thank you again for your time today, for your staff, for the work that you do on behalf of a grateful country.
		Thank you so much.
		This hearing is adjourned.
		We're a little cramped.
		Laurence.
		I tried to call you.
		I tried to call you.
		He's good.
		Yeah.
		Because I was just going to be like.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		So I'll grab your number.
unidentified		There's no doubt, as was expressed here today by a number of my colleagues, that air traffic control is a vital part of the safety of the North Flying Pilot.
		And nobody on this subcommittee and nobody in Congress should want to be responsible for a purge of the qualified people that do this kind of work.
		So I want to hear the proposal.
		And look, it's not just people.
		I mean, we're talking about technology and technology is moving much faster than the pace of Congress.
		So we need to get this right.
		And It needs to be completely and to ensure that we're getting the very best thing for our buck.
		The people deserve that, they expect that, and it's our job to deliver.
		Is there a number that Congress would be willing to spend?
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Because I know he said he wants the money.
unidentified		Look, think about what we went through in open up to the CR.
		We couldn't get agreement on top-line numbers.
		So, I can't even begin to speculate what the top lines are going to look like for FY26.
		I'm just promised, I'm promised by leadership that we're going to try to move back towards regular order.
		And I've made it clear to my leadership that I expect regular order because we control the three levers right now.
		And we don't have an excuse now as to why we can't come to agreement on those top lines.
		Getting a 302A is one thing, and then getting sub-allocations from that 302A is going to be a totally different subject.
		So, whatever I have in my allocation spread across all modes of transportation and housing, I'll do the very best I can to honor the request being made by the Cabinet Secretary.
		But I'm sure his request is probably going to mirror what the President's budget is going to be asking for.
		At least I would think so.
		So, I'm looking forward to getting that.
		But you haven't gotten from the Secretary yet, have you?
		Haven't.
		Sean and I have talked a couple of times.
		We haven't had an in-depth discussion, and we will, and we'll have him in the hearing next month sometime, I think, end of April.
		We'll have the Secretary here.
		So, some of the questions that came up today will best be answered, like yours, will best be answered by the Secretary's appearance and his posture here.
		When are you going to get the budget?
		Do we know that yet or not?
		I have no idea.
		I have no idea.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		There'll be food and drink.
		Yes.
		Thank you so much.
		We're going to have time.
		You probably want to stop in with my parents.
		We've got another one tomorrow.
		Oh my God.
		I mean, I'm like...
		I hope that's the end.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I had a house reading yesterday.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I was at the house tea briefing yesterday today.
unidentified		Today was a good prep for smarts like Philadelphia.
		You know, thank you for that.
		Yeah, let's hope that's as easy as it's retirement.
jennifer homendy ▲ ● ▼		I'll think about it next.
unidentified		Appreciate it.
		That was great.
		Yeah.
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