CSPAN - Washington Journal 03/14/2025

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March 14, 2025 07:00-10:00 - CSPAN

02:59:58

Washington Journal 03/14/2025

Participants

Main

alexandria ocasio-cortez

rep/d 05:13

chuck schumer

sen/d 05:02

greta brawner

cspan 48:24

Appearances

bernie sanders

sen/d 00:49

brian lamb

cspan 01:18

donald j trump

admin 00:47

john thune

sen/r 01:30

marco rubio

admin 00:44

sarah mcbride

rep/d 01:01

susan cole

00:42

Clips

barack obama

d 00:02

bill clinton

d 00:02

george h w bush

r 00:02

george w bush

r 00:04

jimmy carter

d 00:03

meryl gordon

00:17

patty murray

sen/d 00:05

ronald reagan

r 00:01

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Speaker	Time	Text
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		MediaCom supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy.
		Coming up on Washington Journal this morning, your calls and comments live.
		And then we'll talk with Nadia Shadlow, former Trump Deputy National Security Advisor, about the Trump administration's approach to NATO and European security amid Ukraine peace talks.
		And we'll discuss Doge and other Trump administration actions impacting higher education in the U.S. with Ted Mitchell, president of the American Council on Education.
		Washington Journal is next.
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		Schumer folds, the party explodes.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		That's the headline in Punch Bowl News this morning as the Senate Democratic leader says last night that he'll support a stopgap funding bill that would avert a government shutdown.
		It's Friday, March 14th, 2025.
		Welcome to the Washington Journal, and we want to get your reaction to this debate in Washington over the continuing resolution that would keep the government funded through September 30th.
		The Democrats are split on how to move forward.
		Should they support this GOP bill to get it across the finish line and send it to President Trump's desk?
		Here's how you can join the conversation this morning.
		Democrats, dial in at 202-748-8000.
		Republicans, 202-748-8001.
		And Independents, 202-748-8002.
		And if you want to join us on Facebook, you can at facebook.com/slash C-SPAN.
		You can also post on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ.
		And if you don't want to call, you can text at 202-748-8003.
unidentified		Include your first name, city, and state.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll get to your thoughts in a minute.
		You'll recall Republicans control the upper chamber 53 to 47.
		They need Democratic votes to get this stopgap funding bill across the finish line.
		Eight Democrats would have to join with the Republicans to send this continuing resolution to the president's desk.
		That is because Republican Senator Ram Paul of Kentucky has already said he'll vote against it.
		Last night, the Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, leader of the Democrats in the chamber, went to the Senate floor and said that he would vote for it.
		The headline in Associated Press this morning, Schumer to advance GOP funding bill unwilling to risk government shutdown as deadline nears.
		Here's a little bit from the Democratic leader.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		President Trump and Republican leaders would like nothing more than to pull us into the mud of a protracted government shutdown.
		For Donald Trump, a shutdown would be a gift.
		It would be the best distraction he could ask for from his awful agenda.
		Right now, Donald Trump owns the chaos in the government.
		He owns the chaos in the stock market.
		He owns the damage happening to our economy from one end of the country to the other.
		The stock market is crashing.
		Consumer confidence is plummeting.
		Donald Trump is hoping for a shutdown because it will distract from his true agenda, delivering massive cuts to the rich, paid for on the backs of American families.
		He wants to gut Social Security, hollow out Medicaid, slap taxes on consumer goods through his reckless trade wars.
		In a shutdown, we would be busy fighting with Republicans over which agencies to reopen, which to keep closed, instead of debating the damage Donald Trump's agenda is causing the American people.
		Mr. President, I believe it is my job to make the best choice for the country to minimize the harms to the American people.
		Therefore, I will vote to keep the government open and not shut it down.
		There is nobody in the world, nobody, who wants to shut the government down more than Donald Trump and more than Elon Musk.
		We should not give it to them.
		And make no mistake, Democrats will continue to fight what Donald Trump is doing.
		Everything that Trump, Musk, and Republicans have done so far has a clear goal.
		Again, cutting taxes for billionaires, eviscerate Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
		This is the fight that matters most and the fight we must focus on.
		All the chaos we have seen, all the lawlessness, all the grift and corrupt behavior.
		It's all about rigging the system in favor of the ultra-wealthy at the expense of working Americans.
		This is the fight the American people need to see.
		This is the fight that Democrats will win.
		A shutdown will be a costly distraction from this all-important fight.
		I yield the floor.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		New York Democrat Chuck Schumer is saying that it's a costly fight and one he does not want to have on this continuing resolution.
		The continuing resolution is a stopgap funding bill.
		It keeps the government open, averts a shutdown, which would happen at midnight tonight, if not enough Democrats join with Republicans to support this funding measure.
		We are getting your reaction to this debate in Washington.
		It's your turn to tell the lawmakers here how you think they should vote.
		Take a look at some headlines from the Capitol Hill newspapers.
		Here's Politico.
		Schumer's shutdown surrender sends the left into a rage.
		Also from Politico this morning, House Democrats stew over Schumer's capitulation on GOP funding bill.
		And from Axios this morning, House Dems go into complete meltdown as Schumer folds.
		From Axios' reporting, a senior House Democrat said people are furious and that some rank-and-file members have floated the idea of angrily marching onto the Senate floor in protest.
		The Senate convenes at 10 a.m. Eastern Time.
		The vote is expected around 1 p.m. Eastern Time.
		You can watch our coverage on C-SPAN2, C-SPAN.org, or on C-SPAN Now.
		That's our free video mobile app.
		And of course, you can listen on C-SPAN radio as well.
		Gavel-to-gavel coverage on C-SPAN2 when that vote takes place this morning.
		From Axios' reporting, they go on to note that House Democrats are mad because almost by unanimous vote along party line votes, they voted against this Republican continuing resolution when it was on the floor.
		Only one Democrat joined with the Republicans to vote yes on it.
		Here's from Axios.
		People are pissed, one House Democrat told Axios in a text message.
		Several members, including moderates, have begun voicing support for a primary challenge to Schumer, floating Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Dan Goldman as possible candidates.
		One lawmaker even vowed at the House Democratic Retreat to, quote, write a check tonight supporting Ocasio-Cortez, that according to one senior House Democrat.
		Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, disagreeing with the minority leader, Chuck Schumer, here's what she had to say to CNN.
unidentified		Chuck Schumer, I guess the Senate Democratic leader, your senator, said at this meeting that he is going to vote for cloture.
		He is going to vote to allow there to be a simple majority vote.
		You think that's wrong?
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I believe that's a tremendous mistake.
unidentified		Why?
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I think, well, first and foremost, the American people, if anyone has held a town hall or has seen what has been happening in town halls, American people, whether they are Republicans, Independents, Democrats, are up in arms about Elon Musk and the actual gutting of federal agencies across the board.
		This continuing resolution codifies much of this chaos that Elon Musk is wreaking havoc on the federal government.
		It codifies many of those changes.
		It sacrifices and completely eliminates congressional authority in order to review these impulsive Trump tariffs that he's switching on and off.
		And on top of that, for folks who are concerned about effectiveness in government, this Republican extreme spending bill removes all of the guardrails and all of the accountability measures to ensure that money is being spent in the way that Congress has directed for it to be spent.
		This turns the federal government into a slush fund for Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
		It sacrifices congressional authority and it is deeply partisan.
		And so to me, it is almost unthinkable why Senate Democrats would vote to hand the few pieces of leverage that we have away for free when we've been sent here to protect Social Security, protect Medicaid, and protect Medicare.
unidentified		You think of the job that Chuck Schumer is doing, would you ever challenge him, do you think?
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I think that what we need right now is a united Senate Democratic caucus that can stand up for this country and not vote for cloture and not vote for this bill.
		And I think that the strength that we have is in this moment.
		Reconciliation and all of these, Republicans do not need Democratic votes for that.
		They need it for this.
		And so the strength of our leadership in this moment is going to demonstrate the strength of our caucus.
		And I cannot urge enough how bad of an idea it is to empower and enable Donald Trump and Elon Musk in this moment.
		It is dangerous and it is reckless.
unidentified		Well, you just talked about the strength of your leadership.
		Chuck Schumer just said that he's going to vote for cloture.
		Not only the Democrats can do it, but he's going to participate in it.
		Does that mean that you think he's a weak Senate leader?
		I think that that would be a mistake.
		But we have time between now and tomorrow, and I hope that individuals that are considering that reconsider it.
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I genuinely do.
		I don't think it's what New Yorkers want.
		I don't think it's what the country wants.
		This is genuinely not about Democrats or Republicans.
		This is about deep cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
		This is about the evisceration of the federal government.
		This is about codifying the looting that is happening at the behest of Elon Musk in order to pay for his tax breaks for billionaires.
		And we have a responsibility to stand up for it.
		That is why people elected us, and that is our responsibility to them right now.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on CNN applying the pressures to the pressure to Senate Democrats.
		How will they vote today around 1 p.m. Eastern Time?
		Watch gavel-to-gavel coverage on C-SPAN 2 of this Senate vote.
		The leader of the party says they should vote for it and avoid a government shutdown.
		We're getting your reaction to that.
		It's your time to tell Washington how you think they should vote, specifically these senators.
		Before we get to that, though, real quick, a headline for you this morning from CBS, the Russia president Vladimir Putin backs President Trump's push for Ukraine ceasefire in principle, but says there are issues to discuss with the United States.
		We're going to talk about this issue of the Russia-Ukraine war, this possible 30-day ceasefire, as well as NATO and the future of it coming up on the Washington Journal in our next hour.
		We'll be joined by a former deputy national security advisor for the Trump administration, Nadia Shadlow.
		She'll be joining us in the top of the hour.
		Let's get first, though, to your calls on this debate over the stopgap funding bill and a midnight deadline that senators face today.
		David in Irving, Texas, Democratic caller, you're first.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		Appreciate you taking my call and giving me this opportunity to have my opinion heard.
		And in my opinion, I think Chuck Schumer is making the wrong decision.
		I think that if the Republicans hold the House, they hold the Senate, they hold the executive branch, how can anyone say that it's the Democrats' fault because they don't want to stick together?
		And I mean, it's the only, it's the only recourse we have right now.
		This man has lost his mind, and America is in a whole lot of trouble.
		For the first time in my 61 history of life, I'll be marching today at the Dallas VA Medical Center.
		This is going off the rails.
		It's got to stop.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, so David, let me tell you, though, what choice did Chuck Schumer have, though?
		I mean, what could he have done?
		Because in the end, if there is a shutdown, Republicans turn to the Democrats and they say, you didn't support this.
		We needed your votes to get this over the finish line, and now there's a government shutdown because of the 60-vote threshold in the Senate.
unidentified		Well, just like I originally said, the Republicans have the capacity to put their bill across the finish line.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		But they don't.
		They don't in the Senate.
		They don't have a 60-vote threshold.
		They have 53 Republicans.
unidentified		But at the end of the day, we have to vote what's right for the people, for the American people.
		To allow Trump to have a flush fund is not what the American people want.
		We want Social Security to be protected.
		We want to make sure that Medicare and Medicare, Medicaid, Medicare, CHIP are all taken care of.
		We can't do that with the bill that the Republicans have put forth.
		It cannot stand.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		David and Irving, Texas, there with his thoughts.
		And he says Democrats would not be blamed if there was a shutdown at midnight tonight.
		According to a recent poll that was done, though, by Quinnette Piak, when they asked who deserves blame if there is a government shutdown, 32% of those polled said Democrats, 31% said Republicans.
		This is interesting.
		22% said it would be President Trump's fault if there is a shutdown, while 15% said don't know.
		Don and Floyd, Virginia, and Independent.
		Don, good morning to you.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm just calling in to say that I think they should go ahead and shut the thing down.
		I don't think the Democrats got any leadership, any plans, anything at this point in time.
		I just see a lost cause with them.
		And I say shut it down, see what happens.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean that they don't have any leadership?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What should they be doing?
unidentified		How should they lead on these days?
		They got no charisma.
		They got nothing.
		They just like they're lost in the wilderness, is what I see.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Patrick, Pittsburgh, Republican.
		Hi, Patrick.
		Your turn.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I have to tell you, I've never seen a greater tsunami of lies, deceit, manipulation by media that are selling the lie on television 24 hours a day.
		Here's the real deal why Democrats want to shut the government down.
		Elon Musk and the president have uncovered unrivaled theft, unrivaled fraud, unrivaled evil.
		And the only way that Democrats can achieve what they want to achieve, and that is to duck and cover.
		They don't want anything more to be exposed because the theft in the federal government is so great that they have to shut the government down.
		This is how evil the Democratic Party has degenerated into.
		It is so profoundly disturbing.
		And what they've gotten away with in destroying America's greatest inventor, the world's richest man, who literally sacrificed his company in order to save this country to protect the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the rule of law, he could have sat on his super yacht and done nothing.
		And what are we witnessing?
		The media sets the standard for evil.
		It's like information jihadism in order to destroy Elon Musk, who's done one thing, and that is to help in a caring and careful manner.
		And what we're witnessing is it's so disturbing.
		They are literally allowing Elon's facilities to be assaulted, to be, they're engaging in terrorism.
		These people should be charged with terrorism instead of which they're being underwritten with media organizations and assault groups that are so catastrophic to this country.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Patrick in Pittsburgh, his thoughts there.
		Let's listen to the leader of the Republican Party in the Senate, John Thune.
		He was on the floor, and this is what he argued about a potential government shutdown.
		The deadline is midnight tonight.
john thune ▲ ● ▼		It's time for Democrats to fish or cut bait.
		We have two days until government funding expires.
		Democrats need to decide if they're going to support funding legislation that came over from the House or if they're going to shut down the government.
		So far, it's looking like they plan to shut it down.
		The Democrat leader came to the floor yesterday afternoon and had the nerve to complain about the House bill.
		He wants yet another short-term piece of funding legislation to be, as he said, give Congress time to negotiate bipartisan legislation that can pass, end quote.
		Well, Mr. President, I'm not sure how long the Democrat leader thinks we should drag out the funding process for fiscal year 2025.
		Until fiscal year 2026, beyond?
		We are already nearly six months into the 2025 fiscal year.
		In other words, we are halfway through, halfway through this fiscal year, and it is past time to get fiscal year 2025 funding situated.
		You know, I'd like to suggest to the Democrat leader that if he has problems with the current situation, maybe, just maybe, he should have funded the government when he was in charge.
		The reason we're stuck here voting on a CR for the rest of 2025 is because the Democrat leader refused to consider appropriation bills last year.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Senator John Thune, the Republican from South Dakota, the leader of the Republicans in the Senate on the floor yesterday saying Democrats will get the blame if there is a government shutdown.
		The senators face a deadline of midnight tonight to fund the government and keep it open.
		They want to do so until September 30th.
		How will Democrats vote?
		Their leader in the party, Chuck Schumer, says they should vote for it and avert a government shutdown.
		That is causing an intra-party squabble as progressives, grassroots, some senators say they do not want to vote for this.
		Take a look at an Excel spreadsheet put together by CNN's Hallie Talbot.
		She notes that Fetterman from Pennsylvania, the senator, Democratic Senator, has been a yes.
		He's called this political theater.
		And now you can put Chuck Schumer in that column as well.
		There are several no's from Democrats already.
		Chris Kroons, Adam Schiff.
		The list goes on.
		There are several Democrats have already said they are not voting for this.
		Republicans' majority is 53-47.
		They need at least eight Democrats to vote with them because Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, says he's a no.
		Here are the undecided, and these are the people to watch.
		What does Dick Durbin do?
		Angus King, he's an independent, but he caucuses with the Democrats.
		Shaheen, who says she's not going to speculate.
		You have Lisa Blunt Rochester, a new senator from Delaware.
		The list goes on.
		These are the folks to be watching when the Senate comes in this morning at 10 a.m. Eastern Time and the vote takes place around 1 p.m.
unidentified		And then there's Rafael Warnack of Georgia.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		He hates it, but he's not saying how he's going to vote.
		He said he'll tell reporters later.
		They have also not heard from several senators here on the list.
		Maisie Harano of Hawaii, et cetera.
		Those folks are also ones to watch when this takes place on the Senate floor, this vote, again, around 1 p.m. Eastern Time.
		Watch Gabba Gabba coverage on C-SPAN2, C-SPAN.org, C-SPAN now, or C-SPAN Radio.
		Stephen Ulster Park, New York, Democratic caller.
		Stephen, what do you want these senators to do today?
unidentified		I want Chuck Schumer and the Democrats to understand this.
		You fight and you lose.
		Your supporters don't call you a loser.
		They call you a fighter.
		You capitulate with evil.
		Your supporters consider you a coward.
		And there cannot be any political party where people follow cowards.
		You won't fight for us.
		You won't fight for yourself, but you expect us to fight for you.
		That's not how the world works.
		You fight, we'll back you up.
		You sit down, we stay home.
		That's the way the world works.
		To Senator Schumer, capitulation turns Democrats into independents.
		Senator Schumer, we are officially in a war to save our country.
		You look like you're in a war to save your next steak and lobster dinner.
		Get in the fight or get out of the way.
		We're dying out here.
		What do you want to have to say?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Stephen, you're in New York.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Should a Democrat like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez challenge Chuck Schumer in a primary?
unidentified		I don't care who challenges Chuck Schumer in the next election.
		Yes, somebody should.
		Somebody should, because we're tired of capitulation.
		We actually are suffering out here.
		And Chuck Schumer is playing it politically, looking for his next political consequence instead of the fact that people are losing their health care.
		People are losing their Social Security.
		People are losing their jobs.
		People are terrified out here.
		He has to stand up for us now.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		The emotion that you hear in Stephen's voice, Punch Bowl News says that Democrats did this to themselves.
		They say essentially Democrats tried to have it both ways.
		They spent the last few days, which included three long and contentious lunch meetings, warning each other in private about the grave dangers of forcing a government shutdown.
		But in front of TV cameras, they were trashing the House GOP CR and insisting they wouldn't vote for the funding measure.
		This won them praise from progressive and activist groups and House Democrats.
		But then Schumer came out yesterday, took a public position last night.
		And when he said Republicans didn't have enough Democratic votes to pass the CR, he basically threatened to filibuster earlier.
		And in the meantime, Senate Democrats pushed for a short-term CR, intended to buy them more time for a bipartisan funding deal that was never going anywhere.
		So this set up the Democratic base for disappointment for seemingly no reason.
		And you heard it in that caller's voice.
		Harry in Norcross, Georgia, an independent.
		Harry, good morning.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, C-SPAN.
unidentified		Well, I'll have to say, I disagree with Chuck Schumer, but I think what he's worrying about is that if the government closes down, that'll just give Musk and Trump more power to fire.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's exactly what he said.
unidentified		I think this will all turn around when people, when the knowledge of a couple of courtroom rulings come out that people hear about, one in California, one in Maryland, decisions made in the courts that say the Office of Personnel Management has no right to fire anyone outside their own agency.
		So that's going to turn around.
		In fact, they're demanding the hiring of all these fired employees, government employees, back.
		And I think that'll turn Chuck Schumer around, too.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So you think that Chuck Schumer is going to change his mind from last night?
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		When he hears about these court rulings and the demand that all these fired government workers be hired back, I think that's going to turn the whole mess around.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Harry, here are those headlines you're talking about from the Hill newspaper.
		Federal judge rules Trump must reinstate many fired federal employees.
		And then there is this from Politico.
		Judge orders sweeping rehiring of fired workers at 18 federal agencies.
		The order by the U.S. District Judge James Bridar was even more broad than a similar ruling earlier in the day from a different federal judge.
		So those are the two decisions we just read to you from these headlines about reinstating these federal workers.
		That caller thinks that this is going to change Democratic leader Chuck Schumer's mind, who last night told his party and the American citizens that Democrats should vote for this.
		We're getting your reaction to that and this midnight deadline that senators face.
		Steve in San Jose, California, Republican.
		Hi, Steve.
		Good morning to you.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'd like to make three quick points.
		Fox News is replaying the remarks of Pelosi and Schumer regarding shutdowns and how every time that a shutdown was considered by the Republicans, they were strongly opposed to it.
		Point number two, I challenge you and your staff or your Democratic callers to point out the page in the paragraph regarding cuts in Social Security and Medicare in the bill.
		I throw this challenge out because I know there is none.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Steve, I think what the leader was referring to, Chuck Schumer, and his floor remarks yesterday, was that that fight over Medicaid Medicare cuts comes later when the Republicans try to pass the president's tax cuts and the border spending in a budget reconciliation.
		So a whole other process.
		It does take a simple majority, and that's why they want to use the reconciliation process, meaning they just have to get to 50 in the Senate.
		And so he's saying, let's wait and fight when that reconciliation bill comes to the floor.
unidentified		Point is, there is no mention of Social Security or Medicare in the bill.
		Point number three, when the books are written about the USA aid fraud and the EPA fraud and abuse, the Dims will not come to power again for 10 years.
		I can't wait for the books because the news media, the newspapers, they are all refusing to print what is being found by Elon Musk and the Doge boys.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Steve Spotts there in San Jose, California, a Republican caller.
		The leader for the Democratic Party, Chuck Schumer, after he delivered those floor remarks, his office then issued this guest essay in the New York Times opinion pages this morning.
		Trump and Musk would love a shutdown.
		We must not give them one.
		Duane in Westbrook, Maine, an independent.
		Duane, good morning.
		What do you say?
unidentified		Good morning, Greta.
		Great call so far this morning.
		To the caller who was talking about Elon Musk, how great he is and how he's uncovered so much fraud and abuse.
		Look, no one elected Elon Musk to cut Social Security.
		He said, he stated on numerous occasions that is his goal.
		Trump was elected saying he would protect Social Security.
		So we do not want to empower people like Elon Musk.
		He's not some combination of people act like he's some combination of John Galt and Tony Stark from Marvel Comics.
		This is the level of the mentality here.
		That is the reason why people say that people who love Elon Musk so much are in a cult.
		And I can guarantee, this is the problem the Republicans always have.
		It's governance.
		When they get into power, people see what they're actually standing for and they reject it completely.
		I guarantee Trump will be blamed up and down if there's any cuts to Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid.
		That is going to happen.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And Duane, you are an independent?
unidentified		I am an independent, and I'm going to be calling my senator, King, and I'm going to be imploring him to vote against Schumer, because for Schumer to capitulate today is complete and utter cowardice.
		He's got to fight Trump, not bend the knee to Trump when Trump wants to do things that he promised not to do, betraying even the voters who voted for him, of course, and completely the whole Democratic constituency that put Schumer into office.
		So Schumer has to put the welfare, the benefits of his own constituents ahead of his own political expediency, and he's got to stand up and show his spine because this is the reason why Democrats lose elections, because they're always willing to capitulate.
		And then once they get out of office, they're full of all these great platitudes.
		They stand up so strong and pretend they care so much about their own voters.
		When they're in office, they betray us.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Dwayne, were you once a Democrat and now you're an independent because of what you just expressed?
unidentified		Exactly.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Duane and Maine.
unidentified		What happens when you have Democrats who are voting for war, whose virtue signal with identity politics?
unidentified		They get into office, they support corporations, they support tax cuts, they support welfare, the destruction of the welfare state, as they call it, which is Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dwayne, I'm going to jump in.
		Duane explaining why he is now an independent after supporting Democrats.
		He says Democrats need to fight.
		Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, the leader of the party in the Senate, says they need to fight another day.
		He is calling for support of this continuing resolution that would avert a government shutdown.
		The government funding runs out at midnight tonight.
		Whether or not to support it is tearing apart the Democratic Party.
		Listen to Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, caucuses with the Democrats, a progressive, as all of you know.
		He was on the floor on why he's voting no on this GOP funding measure.
bernie sanders ▲ ● ▼		And let's be clear: the House CR that was passed in an extremely partisan vote, I think they won by three or four votes.
		One Democrat out of 200, whatever, 15 voted for it.
		The House CR and the Trump administration are doing everything they can to lay the groundwork for more tax breaks for billionaires paid for by massive cuts to Medicaid, nutrition assistance, housing, and education.
		So you're looking at a one-two punch, a very bad CR, and then a reconciliation bill coming down, which will be the final kick in the teeth for the American people.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Senator Bernie Sanders arguing why he will vote no today, 1 p.m. Eastern Time, is when this vote will take place on moving forward with a continuing resolution.
		It's a closure vote, a procedural vote.
		Will Republicans get some Democrats, eight of them, if it's what they need, to vote with them to move the bill forward toward final passage?
		Congressman Senator Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia, he was also on the floor on Thursday, making the case that the Republican funding bill could impact national security and urging his colleagues to support the CR, a 30-day CR.
		Excuse me.
unidentified		If the chairman of the Readiness Subcommittee says the CR hurts defense, then let's get it right.
		And the good news, Mr. President, is we have an opportunity to get it right.
		It is not completely clear as I stand on the floor, but it looks likely that there could be a vote today or tomorrow on an alternative that I'll call the getting it right alternative.
		What is the getting it right alternative?
		We would extend the current spending level for 30 days and then finish the budget.
		We would decide we don't want to drive looking in the rearview mirror.
		We want to drive looking in the windshield.
		And we would get an appropriations deal that wouldn't hurt our readiness.
		And I'm just talking about one priority.
		I could have other colleagues stand here and talk about how this CR hurts education priorities, health priorities, mental health priorities, transportation priorities, emergency response.
		We don't have to accept that.
		And frankly, to earn the label U.S. Senator, we shouldn't accept it.
		We should do the get-it-right alternative.
		And the get-it-right alternative, which has been proposed by Senator Murray and others, is to do a simple 30-day extension of existing spending, no amendments, no adjustments, no anomalies, no quirks for 30 days, and then get an appropriations deal done that can pass this body and pass the House, and we can do it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Senator Tim Kaine, Democrat Virginia, pushing for a 30-day CR instead of this CR push by Republicans put together by the majority, the Republicans, that would fund the government through the end of this fiscal year, September 30th.
		From Punch Bowl News Analysis, they say, let's be blunt here, Democrats picked a fight they couldn't win and caved without getting anything in return.
		We'll also note that it's more than five months into the fiscal year 2025 already.
		Even with another month of negotiation, what Democrats were asking for, it's still not clear that they would have notched any wins.
		They said during this whole fight, Democrats never managed to put Speaker Mike Johnson, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, and Trump in a tough spot.
		There are plenty of policies House Democrats could have asked for in this continuing resolution.
		More money for certain programs, for instance, that would have placed Republicans in a bind, but they never made the case publicly for anything like that.
		Sylvia in Alexandria, Virginia, Democrat, what do you think of your party this morning, Sylvia?
unidentified		I am quite upset.
		I would vote no.
		I think the Democrats should vote no on this.
		And I've been listening, and I have to say, people brought up Musk and say he's trying to do a great job.
		Well, I think he's demonized the federal workers.
		He's demonized programs.
		They have shown no compassion for what they're trying to do.
		They have just lumped all the federal workers and saying, these are awful people.
		Yes, if they vote no, and if that gives them the capability, the Republicans, to cut programs even more, that is what they want to do.
		And we have to stand up.
		It's up to us to stand up to this.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So, Sylvia, you're saying vote no on the CR, but conceding that then that gives the president more power to make more cuts in the federal government.
		he's going to make those cuts anyway it's time so by sylvia by voting no senate democrats by voting no and then potentially shutting down the down the government at midnight tonight What does that do?
		What message does that send, do you think?
unidentified		Well, first of all, we're not on the whole country is not on the same page.
		There's different things that we want for our country to do.
		And the other party, the Republican Party, want to cut programs that we find that are necessary in the lives of American citizens.
		Okay.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Anthony, South River, New Jersey.
		Independent Anthony, let's go to you.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, Grant, thanks for coming in.
		Just, you know, your hosts are great.
		And thank you for this opportunity to speak.
		It's getting tougher with our divide for your hosts, and I really appreciate your efforts.
		So here's the thing.
		You opened the show with AOC's interview with CNN, and she had said that they were going to have drastic cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
		This bill does no such thing.
		It just keeps the government open at current funding levels.
		You know, Rand Paul is not going to vote for it because it adds over $2 trillion to our debt.
		And it just really keeps the government open.
		And also, let's talk about the talking points.
		Like AOC was saying, you know, she says this is dangerous and irresponsible and reckless.
		We always hear that every day.
		Okay.
		We always hear that our country, the United States, is the richest country in the world.
		Well, Google all the countries' debt in the world.
		The United States has like three times the debt of any other country on the planet.
		So we're not the richest country in the world.
		We're the one with the highest credit card bill.
		And let's look at another fact.
		Okay, we're talking about the Social Security, you know, is cut.
		The plan is from our Congress, who controls the purse, the plan is, is around 2035, everybody receiving Social Security, myself included, is going to get a one-sixth to 25% cut in our checks.
		That's the current plan.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, unless Congress and the President do something on this.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		But that has nothing to do with this bill, which AOC said at the beginning of your program.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Anthony, I'm going to show our viewers some details of this continuing resolution.
		It funds federal agencies through September 30th.
		That's the end of the fiscal year of 2025.
		It increases defense spending by $6 billion to $893 billion, while it decreases domestic spending by $13 billion to $708 billion.
		This is below 2024 levels.
		Jesse in Florida, Republican.
		Jesse, welcome to the conversation.
		What do you want to tell Washington this morning?
unidentified		Well, I'm a guy who has never believed that we should shut down the government.
		I just don't think that's a proper thing to do.
		But what we have right now is we have a government that's out of control.
		We have an economy that has been wrecked.
		And that we have if this signing, agreeing with this bill gives Trump the idea that we are supporting what he's doing, then I think that's the wrong thing to do.
		And I think it's worth shutting the government down to send a message to Donald Trump.
		You've got to reverse course because you are ruining our economy.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jesse, you are a Republican.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Did you vote for President Trump?
unidentified		No, ma'am, I did not.
		The Marlarco and the January 6th were enough to convince me that I could not vote for Donald Trump, but I am a Republican.
		I do believe in the same basic beliefs that they do.
		I believe we have to control the border.
		I believe we have to pay down the debt.
		I believe that war in Ukraine is something that has to be stopped.
		So there are a lot of policies that most of the policies that Trump's following, I agree with.
		But I just do not agree with the way it's been done.
		Laying off these guys that are on probation, that have just started their job and they don't have any evaluations against them.
		And suddenly somebody comes in and says, okay, this is low-hanging fruit.
		I'm going to get rid of it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jesse, what do you make of the emotion that we're seeing in the country across the country?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Town halls, where numerous people are showing up where they would not see normally crowds like that, these members of Congress at these town halls.
unidentified		It's because the Republican congressmen don't have the guts to stand up for what they know is wrong.
		I mean, you have these guys that are fiscal conservatives, and yet they're turning this guy loose.
		It's wrecking our economy.
		Just look at what's happened.
		My RA has been cut by probably about 5%.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Jesse, let me stop you there because yesterday, Senator Chuck Edwards, he's a Republican of North Carolina.
		He decided to hold a town hall, even though, as you recall, news reports that Republican leadership asked their rank and file to not hold these town halls in person, do teletown halls.
		He did hold one in Nashville, Asheville, excuse me, North Carolina, yesterday, and we covered it here on C-SPAN.
		There were several tense moments between his constituents and the lawmaker.
		Take a look at this one.
unidentified		Do you support the annexation of Canada and or Greenland?
		And this is a yes or no question.
		I don't want you to wander off into the woods.
		I don't want to hear about your latest week in your office.
		Okay, so I'm trying to get your opinion on this as a yes or no.
		Do you support Trump on annexing Canada or Greenland?
		And do you like the way he treats the Premier or the President of Canada, calling him governor?
		Is that the way you do as a diplomat?
		Is that the way the United States should act to our closest neighbors?
		You know, is this and I'm still I've still got a little more time.
		Do you enjoy the way he's tried to extort minerals from the Ukraine?
		Do you like bullying people that need your help?
		Do you go for kicking the guy when he's down?
		Do you support Trump in these things?
		This is a yes or no.
		The no's in there.
		Let me answer the first one.
		And then there was one that really stuck out that I'd like to also answer.
		I believe your first question that you wanted, yes or no, is do I support annexing Greenland in Canada?
		The short answer to that is no, I do not.
		There was another question in there.
		I think it was, do I support a deal, I'm going to paraphrase it a little bit, a deal with Ukraine in obtaining minerals and helping the United States taxpayer recoup the $140 billion or so that we sent over there.
		The answer is yes.
		I do support that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Congressman Chuck Edwards, a Republican from North Carolina in Asheville yesterday, courtesy of WLOS television there, C-SPAN.
		We show that on our networks, and you probably, if you were watching the Washington Journal, saw most of that this morning before we started our conversation here.
		If you missed it and you want to see more, you can go to our website, c-span.org.
		Now, the congressman, he put out a statement after that town hall yesterday saying he will hold another one, but it will be a teletown hall.
		From the Hill newspaper, Democrats set to host town halls targeting vulnerable House Republicans.
		So going into their districts and holding town halls.
		Governor Tim Walz, the vice presidential candidate on the Democratic ticket this last time around, he's going to do the same thing across the country.
		He is starting today in Des Moines, Iowa.
		And we will have coverage at 4 p.m. Eastern Time on C-SPAN, on our free video mobile app, C-SPANNow, and online on demand at c-span.org.
		Also happening today, President Trump will be at the Justice Department.
		He'll be giving remarks on immigration and crime policy.
		You can watch live at 3 p.m. Eastern Time on C-SPAN, C-SPANNOW, or online at c-SPAN.org.
		Also up on Capitol Hill, C-SPAN coverage of Dr. Mehmet Oz's confirmation to serve as the Medicare and Medicaid Services head.
		He will be there testifying before the Senate committee, and our coverage of that begins live at 10 a.m. Eastern Time right here on C-SPAN.
		You can also follow along on our free video mobile app, C-SPANNow, or online at c-SPAN.org.
		Back to our conversation with all of you about this midnight deadline that senators face.
		They need to approve a continuing resolution or there could be a shutdown tonight.
		Now, Senate Majority Leader, the Democrat of the party, says they should vote for it.
		Eight Democrats would have to join all the Republicans to get it over a procedural hurdle to move forward with the bill.
		That procedural hurdle vote takes place around 1 p.m. Eastern Time.
		Watch our coverage on C-SPAN 2.
		It'll be gabble-to-gabble, uninterrupted, unfiltered, and you can watch on C-SPAN now or online at c-span.org.
		Alan in Brooklyn, Democratic caller.
		Good morning, Alan.
		We've been asking Democrats this morning throughout the hour, what do you want your party to do today?
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you.
		First of all, the way you framed that last point, I think it might be incorrect.
		You said eight Democrats must vote with all Republicans to get this over the line.
		So my understanding is that Soon has a problem because even though they are nominally the majority party in the Senate, some of their members are not going along with this and they're looking for Democrats to fill the gaps left by people who are not following the leadership.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Senator Ram Paul of Kentucky has said that he's not going to vote for it because of the debt issue.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So if it's only Rand Paul that opposes, then they would need eight Democrats to join all the Republicans.
unidentified		All right.
		Now, my feeling is that I would like to see the media treat Schumer on this question the way they're treating Soon.
		No one is blaming Thune for the fact that he has renegades in his party who are not doing, quote, the right thing.
		I would like to see Schumer given the same kind of respect for trying to do the right thing as leader of the party and have respect for the fact that there are still renegades like AOC and like Sanders and like Cain who would like to do something different and give them the room to give Trump about Schumer negotiating energy on the table with Republicans to force some changes along the lines of Tim Kaine's
		suggestion.
		Because if he just goes in and actually gets all of the people rank and file on the Democratic side to get behind him right now, there'll be no room for bargaining at all.
		And we have to have a good cop, bad cop situation where Schumer can play the good cop with Soon and say, look, if you're going to get my other people on board, you've got to give them something.
		And have AOC and Sanders and Kane push for a compromise like the one that Kane was suggesting.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, Punch Bowl News says that Democrats didn't do that, that they should have been doing that, but they haven't called for concessions publicly.
unidentified		Also, I believe that there needs to be a lot more use of Democratic media time to educate the public because media are not in general, except for C-SPAN and public broadcasting, giving the public full information about what's happening here.
		And the fact we have so much misinformed MA support reflects the fact that we have basically propagandists in place of journalists running a lot of the media in the country today.
		And the legislators need to play more of the role of educators to fill in that gap.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		How do they do that?
		How do they do that, Alan?
		Where do they go?
unidentified		Giving more lecture-style presentations on plain facts instead of remaining silent.
		There's been very little in the way of Democratic senators or congressmen getting up in front of microphones with no rhetoric, simply correcting the record, correcting the law, correcting the facts, and getting people to understand that we're not here to propagandize.
		We're here to inform you until the media is either diligent enough or relieved enough of the kinds of threats that Trump has made against the media that is forcing them to act irresponsibly.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Alan, let me go to Gloria, who's in Tennessee in Independent.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Gloria, what do you say?
unidentified		Well, I think that everyone that's elected into office, from the president all the way down to our representatives, when they sign up to run for office, they should be sent to a private room by themselves and given a test on our Constitution.
		If they can't pass a test on our Constitution, they don't need to be defending us.
		And I really believe too many people are strictly party affiliated and not even listening to what's going on.
		And it's terrible.
		All right, Gloria.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		That's Gloria's suggestion.
		Get in a room and work it out.
		Juanita in Pennsylvania, Democratic caller.
unidentified		Good morning, Greta.
		Good morning.
		Yeah, I like what that lady had to say at the end.
		I hope they vote no.
		The Democrats vote now on the cloture and on the CR due to the fact whatever happened to of and by and for the people, they are not listening to us.
		Neither the Democrats or the Republicans.
		They are not listening to us.
		They hold these town halls.
		We try to call into their offices.
		Those things on the telephone do not work because, believe me, I was on one before, and you get shut down real quick if you don't agree with what they're saying.
		They're going in there, they're voting on party lines, what they want to do, what the president wants to do.
		They're not listening to us.
		You see it all the time on these town halls and everything.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So Juanita, let me run this idea by you because we told you all this at the Top Punch Bowl News or Axios reporting that some Democrats are contemplating lawmakers, that is House Democrat lawmakers, going over to the Senate chamber today and going on the House, the Senate floor to protest and stand there as their Senate colleagues feel the pressure physically to vote no.
unidentified		Okay, but what did you ask me at the beginning, honey?
unidentified		Because I was talking.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I missed it.
		I'm wondering what you think about that idea.
		Do you want to see more of that from your party?
unidentified		Yes, I do.
		Yeah, go tell them not to do it.
		But the thing is, what are the Republicans going to do to these House Representatives that come over and do that?
		You don't know because as far as shutting the government down, what do you think Musk and Trump are up to?
		They're losing in the courts, but they're making a mess of the government as it is.
		If they vote no on this, it gives them a chance to fight another day.
		I mean, put this in the hands of the House and the Senate, the Republicans, and Trump to do something.
		You know, if the government shuts down, it's in their hands to get that government back up.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Because they're in the majority.
		Juanita's argument there that this is in the hands of the Republicans because they control both chambers and the White House.
		More calls coming up.
		I will first want to show you another moment from yesterday, C-SPAN's coverage of the House Democrats retreat just outside of the nation's capital.
		They were gathering there to talk about their party strategy.
		And Sarah McBride, the Democrat from Delaware, responding to a question on Democrats' decorum at the party's annual retreat.
		She, the Congresswoman McBride, from Delaware, standing there with other House Democrats, and here's what she had to say.
		We posted this on TikTok, by the way, and it had over a million views.
sarah mcbride ▲ ● ▼		We will not take a lecture on decorum from a party that incited an insurrection.
		I appear to live rent-free in the minds of some of my Republican colleagues.
		I wish that they would spend even a fraction of the time that they spend thinking about me, thinking about how to lower the costs for American families.
		I wish they would spend a fraction of the time that they spend thinking about me, figuring out how to make government actually work better, rather than making it work worse in order to prove that government can't work.
		They are obsessed with culture war issues.
		The Republican Party is obsessed with culture war issues.
		It is weird and it is bizarre.
		And the American people deserve serious legislators, serious elected officials who are focused on bringing people together to deliver real results for the American people.
		Not to play games and not to engage in schoolyard taunts.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Representative Sarah McBride from yesterday's Democratic Retreat, and you can find what she had to say and others on our website, c-span.org.
		Follow us as well on TikTok, on X, on Facebook.
		Alia in San Diego, California, Republican.
		What do you think should happen with this continuing resolution and the stopgap funding bill to avert a shutdown at midnight tonight?
unidentified		Hello, my name is Aliyah, and I thank you for letting me to speak in your program.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I think we have a great president who is helping people.
		And Mr. Musk has done a lot of work for this beautiful country.
		And for the first time, I see Mr. Schume make the right decision.
		I think if they don't want to vote and they like to see the government to be closed, they could donate their salaries for six months to the people if they really care.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Aaliyah's idea there.
		She says she's seeing the right decision by the Democratic leader Chuck Schumer.
		Bruce in Lexington, Kentucky, Independent.
		Bruce, what do you say?
unidentified		Well, I hate to see the government shut down, but I really don't care.
		And I'm on Social Security, by the way.
		The fact of the matter is, and this is a fact, the Democrat Party and the Republican Party have bankrupt our country.
		This back and forth about shutdowns and this spending and that spending is all a bunch of bally who.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Ray in Ithaca, New York, a Republican.
		Ray, what do you say?
unidentified		I think Chuck Schumer is correct on this.
		This is only going to give more power to Musk.
		It seems like the Democrats are hurting themselves.
		We already see the stock market is down.
		This is only going to hurt it.
		If you guys have got Trump on the rope, why are you giving more power by not being logical and keeping the government open?
		This is a party that's hurting themselves by doing this.
		I don't understand it.
		I think Chuck Schumer, which is my senator, is 100% correct.
		I think John Fetterman is correct.
		We need to work together.
		It's never good when the government shuts down.
		My side gets blamed a lot on this in the past, and they probably deserve that blame.
		But this time it's going to turn around on them.
		This is cutting off your nose and spite your face.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ray there in New York, a Republican caller.
		That closure vote, procedural vote that they have to overcome to move forward on the stopgap funding bill takes place at 1 p.m. Eastern Time.
		They need 60 votes.
		With Republicans having 53 senators and Democrats 47, they will need support from some Democrats to get it over the finish line.
		Watch C-SPAN 2's gabble-to-gabble coverage around 1 p.m. Eastern Time.
		Today, you can also go online at c-span.org or our free video mobile app, C-SPANNOW.
		We'll return later on the Washington Journal to hear more from you on this debate over the spending measure.
		We're going to take a break and we come back, a conversation with former Trump Deputy National Security Advisor Nadia Shadlow about the future of NATO and the latest in the Ukraine-Russia peace talks.
		And then later, we'll be joined by Ted Mitchell of the American Council on Education, the major coordinating body for the nation's colleges and universities.
		We'll talk about Doge cuts impacting higher education and what's next for that former Columbia University student and pro-Palestinian activist detained by immigration officials this week.
		Stay with us.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This weekend, C-SPAN's Book TV will be live from the Tucson Festival of Books.
		You'll see discussions on a variety of topics, including America's changing political landscape and global competition for natural resources, plus viewer call-ins with some of your favorite authors.
		Beginning at 1 p.m. Eastern, Saturday's highlights include Juan Williams, Jason DeLeon, Kate Conger, and Rosanna Xiao.
		And then on Sunday at 1 p.m. Eastern, we'll feature authors Jonathan Turley, Amanda Becker, Clay Risen, and Paola Ramos.
		The Tucson Festival of Books, live this weekend beginning at 1 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN 2.
		Next week, C-SPAN continues our new Members of Congress series, where we speak with Republicans and Democrats about their early lives, previous careers, families, and why they ran for office.
		On Monday, at 9:30 p.m. Eastern, our interviews include Arizona Democrat Yasemin Ansari, the Democratic freshman class president.
		I am the proud daughter of two Iranian immigrants.
		So my parents came here in the 70s.
		My dad came to go study civil engineering at the University of Oregon, always with the intention of going back home.
		My mom has a little bit different of a story when the revolution hit Iran in 1979.
		They had grown up in a monarchy in Iran, but with more freedoms.
		A theocratic regime, the Islamic Republic, took over, and my mom's family was at risk.
		Her father was imprisoned for supporting the prior government and being anti-the new regime.
		And so she fled Iran by herself and was able to come to the United States.
		Watch new members of Congress all next week, starting at 9.30 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN.
		And on Friday, starting at 8 a.m. Eastern, join us on C-SPAN 2 for a special 24-hour marathon, featuring more than 60 of our exclusive interviews with the newest members of the 119th Congress.
		Mr. Speaker, on this historic day, the House of Representatives opens its proceedings for the first time to televised coverage.
		Since March of 1979, C-SPAN has been your unfiltered window into American democracy, bringing you direct, no-spin coverage of Congress, the Supreme Court, and the White House.
		Is this Mr. Brian Lamb?
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		It exists because of C-SPAN founder Brian Lamb's vision and the cable industry's support, not government funding.
		But this public service isn't guaranteed.
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patty murray ▲ ● ▼		To the American people, now is the time to tune in to C-SPAN.
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		Donate now at c-span.org/slash donate or scan the code on your screen.
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		Washington Journal continues.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Nadia Shadlow is on your screen this morning as she's a foreign policy senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and also former Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategy with the first Trump administration.
		Nadia Shadlow here to talk about the future of NATO and Trump foreign policy agenda.
		Let's begin with the headline on Ukraine and Russia.
		This is from CBS News.
		Vladimir Putin backs Trump's push for Ukraine's ceasefire in principle, but says there are issues to discuss with the United States.
		Nadia Shadlow, what do you think about your reaction to the Russian president saying there are issues that need to be worked out?
		What's the strategy here?
unidentified		Hi, Greta.
		Well, it's great to be here.
		Thanks so much.
		Well, you know, I think the devil is in the details, right?
		I think yesterday was a great sign.
		The meeting between the new NATO Secretary General Mark Rute and President Trump went really well, I think.
		You know, you really saw a lot of personal rapport, which, as we know, with the president, that's important.
		You saw enthusiasm for NATO and for what the Europeans are doing in terms of increasing their contributions to NATO, which has been a key theme of President Trump since his first term, and it's continued into his second term.
		And you saw, I think, what Secretary of State Marco Rubio said, which is essentially, you know, now it's in Russia's court.
		Now it's up to Russia in many ways to respond and to do its part in creating a sustainable ceasefire.
		Now, whether or not that happens, that's the question, right?
		I mean, President Trump and his team are not naive about this.
		They understand that the details will matter.
		The Europeans and the Ukrainians are concerned, as far as I understand, that a ceasefire means time for Russia to regroup, to attack again.
		So we want to avoid that, and we want to set conditions to avoid that.
		But overall, I was encouraged yesterday by the turn of events, and it's pretty remarkable how different things look, you know, a week after the initial, you know, a week or 10 days after the initial Oval Office blow-up with President Zelensky.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of Zelensky, the Ukrainian president reacted to Putin's response saying that this is typical and he's slow walking this.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ukraine has agreed immediately to this 30-day ceasefire, but by not doing the same, the Ukrainian president is arguing that Russia is just dragging its feet to no.
unidentified		We'll see.
		I think it's important to see how things play out.
		As I said, I think the Americans are really committed to working to find a deal that is sustainable, that will hold in the long term.
		The Russians right now, I think, are waiting.
		They want, as far as I understand, to see a complete secession of aid to Ukraine to prevent the Ukrainians from regrouping should Russia continue its aggression.
		So I think we'll see all of these details play out, hopefully behind the scenes, which is really where negotiations should take place.
		Although, of course, obviously I understand the public side of negotiations also creates a set of conditions that's important too.
		But yeah, I think we just need to wait and see and know that now at least the Ukrainians, the Russians, and the Americans are talking, and the Europeans are doing the planning that they should be doing to create a sustainable settlement as well.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And those negotiations are taking place.
		The President's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, at the Kremlin, here's a headline from the New York Times.
		Vladimir Putin met with the U.S. envoy in Moscow.
		The diplomatic efforts signaled that Russia was keen to keep negotiating with the United States about a ceasefire in Ukraine.
		You mentioned the alliance, the NATO alliance, and the leader of that at the White House yesterday with the president.
		want to show our viewers a portion of what the NATO Secretary General had to say to President Trump and the media ahead of their one-on-one meeting.
unidentified		You originated the fact that in Europe we are now spending, when you take it to aggregate, 700 billion more on defense than when you came in office in 2016, 2017.
		But that was Trim 45.
		But then when you look at Trim 47, what happened the last couple of weeks is really staggering.
		The Europeans committing to a package of 800 billion defense spending.
		The Germans now potentially up to half a trillion extra in defense spending.
		And then of course you had Kier Starman here, the British Prime Minister and others all committing to much higher defense spending.
		We're not there.
		We need to do more.
		But I really want to work together with you in a run-up to the DeHegue Summit to make sure that we will have a NATO which is really reinvigorated under your leadership.
		And we are getting there.
		And we also discuss defense production because we need to produce more weaponry.
		We are not doing enough.
		And not in the US, not in Europe.
		And we are lacking behind when you compare to the Russians and the Chinese.
		And you have a huge defense industrial base, Europeans buying four times more here than the other way around, which is good because you have a strong defense industry, but we need to do more there to make sure that we are hand-putting the production and kill the red tape.
		So I would love to work with you on that.
		And finally, Ukraine, you broke the deadlock.
		As you said, all the killing, the young people dying, cities getting destroyed.
		The fact that you did that, that you started the dialogue with the Russians, and the successful talks in Saudi Arabia now with the Ukrainians.
		I really want to commend you for this.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Nadia Shadlow, what did you hear there from the NATO Secretary General about defense spending in Europe?
unidentified		Yeah, I heard a lot of good things, a lot of excellent trends and trends that President Trump has been pushing for since 2016.
		If you go back and look at his statements since that time, and I have, a consistent theme has been sort of shared responsibility and NATO increasing its contributions to NATO defense spending consistently.
		He has consistently said he supports NATO.
		He believes NATO is important.
		But he's also just as clearly said he expects the Europeans to do more.
		And now we are really seeing the Europeans do more.
		The circumstances are unfortunate in that partly it took a war in Europe to do that, but it's a good thing.
		I think the Europeans are serious this time.
		The Germans, for the first time, are going to spend billions of dollars on defense and increase their defense budget substantially.
		The Poles have already doing a lot, I think 5% of GDP on the Polish side.
		But I think it was a very positive meeting.
		I think Mark Rute is really a good Secretary General to have at this time with President Trump.
		They get along quite well.
		The president was clear in his meeting about how he had preferred Mark Rutte above other candidates.
		So I assume behind the scenes the Americans were really pushing for him.
		So I think it's positive.
		I think the developments are positive.
		Now, as in anything in government, we need to see execution, right?
		We need to see implementation in real time.
		The problem with government is that it takes so long for the U.S. government, but also the Europeans, if not more, to get things done.
		So we need to measure these accomplishments, you know, in months, in years, but not too many years.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I just want to show our viewers, BBC put together the percentage of GDP by NATO countries in Europe and how much they were spending on defense.
		And as you noted, Poland was one of the countries that was spending the most.
		I think you said 5%.
		And they're listed here as 3% and above.
		Can see, along with Latvia and Estonia, that they're spending more than the bigger countries, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France.
		They're around 2.5% to almost 3%.
		And so are we hearing from the NATO Secretary General that those countries are stepping up?
unidentified		They are stepping up.
		And if you look at why, in some ways, to your point, Greta, about the Baltics and the Nordic states, you know, look at a map and look why.
		They're worried.
		They're really worried with good reason, right?
		Russia has a history of aggression, especially toward that region of Europe.
		So they're worried.
		They're stepping up.
		They're planning.
		They're looking at their operational plans.
		They want to be able to defend their countries should they need to, and hopefully they will not need to.
		But they're taking it seriously.
		And they also are taking seriously the weaknesses over the past few years.
		So the Estonians, for instance, have been quite open about saying, look, we need to do better.
		We could be overrun in a matter of days or weeks should the Russians decide to act.
		So I think all of these trends are good trends.
		They're the kinds of trends that will be important for keeping the transatlantic alliance intact, which is something I think this administration does want to do.
		I think just on different terms, being more realistic and asking the Europeans to do more and to be more realistic as well.
		So I'm feeling positive, actually.
		And I think if I could just say, you know, it's important for your listeners to know, it's not as if the U.S. has, I bet, you know, I don't know, do you know how many troops we have in Europe, Greta, American troops?
		I'll mention it.
		It's about 100,000, right?
		That's not that much, right?
		That's less, about 9%.
		The U.S. has about 1.1 million active duty military, over 770,000 reserves.
		So 100,000, give or take, is not a huge amount in terms of American troops on the ground.
		And those troops get a lot out of being there.
		We can talk about that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Nadia Shadlow here with us this morning.
		She'll take your questions and comments about the president's foreign policy agenda, the future of NATO.
		She served in the first Trump administration as a former, as a deputy national security advisor for strategy.
		Let's get to calls.
		Matt and Falls Church, Virginia, Democratic Caller.
		Good morning to you.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Before I ask my question, I wanted just to get, I think, a clarifying question for the guests first.
		What reason did Russia invade Ukraine?
		Yeah.
		I mean, Russia said, you know, it's a long history between Russia and Ukraine, but Russia essentially said it invaded Ukraine to prevent Ukraine.
		It was very concerned about Ukraine becoming a part of NATO.
		And Russia did not want the Ukrainians to become a part of NATO.
		Russia invaded Ukraine a long time ago as well, 2014 most recently, taking over the eastern, you know, many of the eastern portions of Ukraine.
		So there's a long, complicated history between the Russians and Ukrainians.
		The Russian rationale was that it felt threatened by Ukraine's possible entry into NATO.
		That's the Russian rationale.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Matt, your follow-up?
unidentified		Follow-up is with Trump's pretty much derision of NATO as an organization, why should Ukraine really trust anything Donald Trump says in terms of having a peace treaty when without NATO's protection, Russia's just going to keep gobbling up more of Ukraine as soon as maybe the next president comes in?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Matt, let's take that question.
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, I would dispute The point about derision of NATO, as I said, since 2016, and you really can go back and look on the record, all the statements, many, most all of the statements Trump has made has focused on support for Ukraine, provided, I'm sorry, support for NATO, provided that the Europeans do more.
		Not even provided, that sounds like a quid pro quo, support for NATO, but wanting the Europeans to do more.
		And I think that has been consistent, and I think that's where we're now, where we've seen we're ending up, right?
		So I think that's a good thing.
		And as I've said, I think the meeting yesterday reaffirmed Trump's support for NATO and for having a good relationship with the Europeans, but wanting the Europeans to do more of their fair share.
		I don't think Ukraine is headed toward being part of NATO.
		That has not been the position of the Europeans either.
		So looking for a way to keep Ukraine strong and secure in different formulas and different approaches, I think that's the challenge now going forward.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ms. Shadlow, your response to this Axios reporting Trump's stunning string of Putin-friendly moves.
		President Trump's decision to suspend all military aid to Ukraine is the latest in a string of moves that could have plucked, that he that could have been plucked from Vladimir Putin's personal wish list.
		Trump is also considering sanctions relief for Moscow and hinting at regime change in Kiev.
		The Moscow-friendly streak comes as he seeks to foster peace in Ukraine and better relations between nuclear-armed superpowers.
		Your reaction to that?
unidentified		Yeah, I think it's overstated.
		We saw a two-day suspension, essentially, we saw a short period of suspension of satellite coverage for the Ukrainians.
		Continued aid is now part of the whole negotiation process.
		I think it's an exaggeration.
		I think that we're now looking, as I said, as the Ukrainians and the Russians coming to the table to talk about a ceasefire in a way that hasn't happened before.
		I think Trump wants to see peace in Europe.
		I think he does want to end the killing in Europe.
		He made that clear yesterday again.
		I think his relationship with Putin is one driven by a sense that he can negotiate, he can get the deals that he thinks are the best for the United States.
		We'll see.
		I hope so.
		But, you know, as other presidents have tried, they've often been duped.
		I hope that's not the case going forward.
		But I think the report's exaggerated.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll go to Hyattsville, Maryland.
		Bob, independent.
unidentified		Yes.
		When Trump demands and forces the NATO and other allies to constantly spend more and more for their military, the phrase, be careful for what you wish for, comes to my mind.
		Because I tell you, when the U.S. allies become more and more militarily strong, at some point, you know, they're not going to follow along with the leader of the U.S. because the whole idea behind creating NATO was to keep Europe weaker than U.S.,
		okay, so that U.S. will have the leverage and the power for any kind of conflict that may arise.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Bob, let's take that analysis.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, the reason why NATO was created after World War II was to prevent a Soviet attack on Europe, right?
		It was a defensive alliance during the Cold War to prevent a Soviet attack on Europe, to deter the Soviet Union from attacking Europe.
		And essentially, as NATO has evolved, it remains a defensive alliance designed now to deter Russia if necessary.
		Hopefully, that is not necessary.
		It remains a defensive alliance.
		And increased European defense spending and a shared responsibility for that task is what Trump's calls for increased spending are about.
		The Europeans should share responsibility to make that defensive alliance actually real, right?
		It's important that NATO deter, and to deter, you have to have the capabilities to deter.
		Deterrence is a combination of will and a combination of capabilities.
		So Trump has been trying from day one to increase those capabilities.
		I think that's a good thing.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kerry in Colorado Democratic Caller, your turn.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Okay, in regards to NATO, Donald Trump is ruining our standing with the other countries.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		In what way, Kerry?
unidentified		Just in the way he's treating us, treating them, doing sanctions against people, and the tariffs, and all of that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's take that point, Kerry, because we haven't talked about it yet.
		This back and forth over trade and what that does to an alliance like NATO.
unidentified		I think Trump is seeking fair and reciprocal trade, right?
		He's seeing, he is looking around the world and creating, working to create new trading alignments.
		His view is that the trade, the playing field is not level for trade, that the Europeans, the EU, have tariffs on American goods that should not exist, right?
		So that's, I think, I think looking at Trump's trade policies, the term fair and reciprocal is really important in understanding that.
		And I do actually suggest that viewers look at his February, his recent February statement.
		It's on the White House about fair and reciprocal trade to give you a sense of how he's thinking about trade.
		Alliances always have tensions.
		It's a natural part of alliances.
		British Prime Minister, I think, Harold Macmillan said, you know, alliances are not held together by love.
		They are held together by fear, meaning that we have shared threats.
		We need to work together to counter those threats.
		So there are differences, of course, in the U.S.-European relationship.
		I think, you know, Vice President Vance created a bit of a stir in Europe with his speech in February at the Munich Security Conference.
		But overall, I think we, you know, the transatlantic alliance is a strong one.
		It can overcome perceived slights and arguments.
		And Trump has a lot of good relationships with leaders across Europe, including Prime Minister Maloney, in a good relationship with Macron, with the British PM who came recently was in Washington, and they had excellent meetings as well.
		So I think the picture is actually a good one.
		And I think he's looking to build on that.
		There will be, as I said, blips.
		There will be tensions over tariffs, over looking at how that will all unfold.
		But we're looking at now a set of new trading alignments and relationships.
		And hopefully the Europeans can come to the table to help create those new structures.
		I think that's the key.
		Coming to the table to help us as we work to create these new alignments.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		From NBC's reporting, the president considering major NATO policy shifts.
		The president has discussed possibly favoring members of the alliance that spend a set percentage of their GDP on defense.
		What would that do to the alliance?
unidentified		I think there's lots of room in NATO for reconfiguring NATO in all different ways, thinking about where troops should be deployed across the alliance, thinking about which allies should bring which capabilities to bear across the alliance.
		I think all of that is good, right?
		The alliance shouldn't look today as it did in 1960, as it did in 1970 or 1980.
		There's room to maneuver within the alliance to create the best possible configuration so that we can deter Russia.
		So I think all of that remains open, and that's a good thing.
		We want to be talking about how to best modernize NATO to keep it relevant and to keep it capable.
		We'll go to Andres in Gates-Mills, Ohio, Republican.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the conversation.
unidentified		So thank you very much for allowing us to speak once in a while on these subjects.
		And this one in particular for your wonderful guest.
		I have a couple of questions for her.
		One of them has already been touched, but if you're a European and you're dealing with a Mr. Trump that throws 25 and then 50 and then 100 and then 200% tariffs out of thin air, okay?
		You talk about a new trading relationship.
		Our major trade deficit, if you haven't noticed, happens to be with China, okay, not our European allies.
		Okay?
		And the urinating contest that's going on right now is between the U.S. President, who claims a mandate of all of 1.5% of 50% to the vote that he needs to rearrange trading strategies.
		What does that have to do with our trade deficit?
		What does European defense spending as opposed to the misnomer your ex-boss likes to use, which is they need to pay more?
		They need to pay more.
		They need to contribute to their defense to a certain level.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ms. Shadlow, your response.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I think from the day Trump was elected, there's always been a discussion and a debate about taking every single thing he says literally versus looking at the full range of activities that unfolds after.
		So I believe that Trump's using tariffs and threats of tariffs as points of negotiation, as points of leverage, to create what he believes is a fairer and more reciprocal set of arrangements for the United States.
		So from his point of view, for instance, he questions, which he did yesterday in Mark Rutez' meeting, but also in this February statement that I mentioned about fair and reciprocal trade, that the U.S. doesn't sell cars to Europe, right?
		And why is that?
		He points out that the Europeans have high tariffs on American cars.
		So he's seeking to bring down some of those barriers using tariffs and threats of tariffs as negotiating points of leverage.
		I think it's important to keep that in mind and watch what arrangements actually unfold.
		I think in terms of increased spending, he wants shared responsibility.
		He wants shared responsibility among the U.S. and the Europeans.
		He sees there is a trade imbalance with Europe, not as much as with China, of course, to your point.
		But he sees the U.S. initially spending more in Europe, but getting a trade imbalance for that.
		He just wants to create a fairer, more level playing field across the U.S. and its various allies and partners.
		And I'm optimistic we can get there.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Nadia Shadlow is our guest this morning, former Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategy in the First Trump administration.
		And a headline to share with all of you: CNN out with a new poll today.
		Most Americans disapprove of President Trump's approach to the Ukraine war, doubt it will yield peace.
		From CNN's reporting, half of Americans think that Trump's approach to the war between Russia and Ukraine is bad for the United States compared to only 29% who think it's good.
		Now, this breaks along party lines, with the majority of Republicans supporting the president, while the majority of Democrats saying they do not think peace is a likely outcome.
		Andy in Arlington, Virginia, and Independent, we will hear from you next.
unidentified		Good morning to you both.
		Thanks very much for C-SPAN for 40 years of wonderful service to the country.
		I want to make a comment and ask a question.
		I think your guest's statement earlier that essentially President Trump is supportive of NATO is almost laughable on its face, given the record, his record.
		He, in recent days, has said that the European Union is hostile to the United States.
		Yes, Vice President Vance goes to Munich and chides the Europeans for their enemy within.
		I think the Axios reporting that you cited earlier is absolutely on the mark.
		Look at the record.
		Look at President Trump's actions in office.
		Yes, we do take our president literally, and that is contrary to the essential suggestion by your guest that it's okay for presidents to lie 30,000 times in his first term in office.
		My question is this: Earlier this week, Senator Merkley of Oregon asked a guest, I believe it in the Senate Armed Services Committee, with a very straight face, very seriously: is President Trump a Russian asset?
		And I think I can't believe that I'm saying this, but it certainly appears that way, that President Trump somehow is coerced by Russia to act in their interest.
		And I'd be interested in your guest's response.
		Thank you very much.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ms. Shadlow.
unidentified		The President's frustration with the EU is mainly a trade-oriented frustration.
		He perceives the EU as, and not just perceives the EU, has created an unfair trading environment in many respects for U.S. goods, right?
		I mean, as I said, are there any American cars in Europe?
		Very, very few.
		So he sees the EU as having instituted unfair trade barriers vis-a-vis the United States.
		It's not directly about NATO.
		Secondly, JD Vance's speech was about asking the Europeans what constitutes the West, what constitutes the West as a set of democracies.
		The EU itself has been critical of itself.
		The EU report in the past year, there's an excellent report by a former Italian prime minister, Mario Draghi, wrote a scathing assessment of the EU.
		The Europeans lack, are behind on innovation, entrepreneurship, economic flourishing, huge problems.
		The EU being not being essentially a highly bureaucratic organization in the center of Europe that has contributed to separating European citizens from their states.
		So this is a broader problem.
		And having Vice President Bance and President Trump call out these problems hopefully is a first step toward resolving them, toward addressing some of the problems, I think actually will be good for the transatlantic alliance and for strengthening those relationships.
		And I think it's ridiculous to call the president a Russian asset just because you're willing to negotiate with Putin to decide that you're going to try a different personal approach.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I think it's ridiculous.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Aaron is in New York, Democratic Color.
unidentified		Hi there.
		How are you?
		Morning.
		Morning to you guys.
		I find this very interesting, this guest that you have on.
		I don't know if there's anything that she is defending at this point.
		We have a good relationship with the European Union.
		There was no issue.
		If you want to add tariff to these things, then you should do it in a more pragmatic way.
		This is not a will-in-nilly.
		If you're a leader and you care about the free world and what has been going on for 80 years in these organizations, so if that's your argument as for free trade, what about Canada and Mexico?
		Are those our neighbors?
		Those things should apply to those places as well.
		So the idea of you going to another foreign country when you don't have the house in order, speaking of JD Vance, to lecture people about what's going on in their own country when you're not doing your job in your own, I think it's embarrassing, okay?
		And there's nothing here for you to defend.
		Thank you so much.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ms. Chaldeau, your response.
unidentified		Thank you.
		I mean, as I've said, I think tariffs are being used by Trump currently as points of negotiation.
		And in fact, they've resulted in he initially wanted the Canadians and the Mexicans to work harder on securing borders.
		That is happening now in cooperation with Canada and with Mexico.
		The President's relationship with the President of Mexico is a good one.
		Tariffs are a point of negotiation, a point of leverage for the president.
		So I think it would be useful to have many of these conversations in a few months from now to see where outcomes actually end up.
		We're in the middle now of a series of negotiations over sets of issues that are in realignment.
		And I think, you know, in a couple of months, I'll come back, Greta, if you want me, and we can see where we are on these points.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's listen to President Trump earlier this month telling reporters that the U.S. might not come to the defense of a NATO member if they haven't contributed enough to the defense spending.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've said that to them.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I said, if you're not going to pay, we're not going to defend.
unidentified		I said that seven years ago.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		And because of that, they paid hundreds of billions of dollars.
		I said, if you're not going to pay your bills, we're not going to defend you.
		And it also went for the attack.
		But if they got attacked, they said, well, does that mean you won't defend us?
		I said, are you current or are you delinquent?
		They said, if we were delinquent, would you?
		I said, nope, I would not.
		And because of that, as you know, hundreds of billions of dollars came into NATO.
		You wouldn't have NATO right now if I weren't there.
		And your previous Secretary General has said that.
		He said he's never seen anything like it.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The President in the Oval Office there.
		Yeah, go ahead.
		You can respond.
unidentified		I mean, that statement has been from the campaign.
		It's one that's repeated over and over and over.
		And as I've said, hopefully it won't be tested.
		But right now and since 2016, Trump has consistently also said as many statements that I could bring to bear or have you repeat, which is reinforced his support for NATO and making it stronger by getting the Europeans to do more of their share.
		That's what this is about.
		And that's what statements like that are about.
		And for the first time in decades, the Europeans are increasing defense spending in ways that are way higher than they ever have before.
		And that provides a good basis for transatlantic cooperation going forward.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And we heard that from the NATO Secretary General in the Oval Office yesterday.
		And if our viewers missed that, they can find it on our website, cspan.org, online on demand, whenever you want to watch coverage of Washington, D.C. Andrew in Ormond Beach, Florida, Republican.
		Good morning.
		Andrew in Ormond Beach, Florida.
		All right, let me move on to Robert in Texas, Lake Jackson, Texas, Independent.
unidentified		Good morning.
		My question has less to do with Putin and Ukraine, but more to do with NATO member states, specifically their sentiments and possibly fears about, well, I wanted to link back to yesterday's segment regarding Mahmoud Khalil, particularly the circumstances surrounding his arrest and detention.
		I want to know if NATO member states people there think that they might be seeing this as something of a nach du Nedel directed moment in akin to Nazi Germany's nine-value decree of December 1941 because his family was kept unaware of his kept in it were ignorant of his whereabouts and well-being until the media broke news that he'd been remanded to a detention facility in Louisiana.
		And seeing as Trump has threatened to pull us out of NATO before, are they wondering if are they worried that that might be what they're seeing?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we'll leave it there, Robert.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Nadia, Chadla?
unidentified		Yeah, I mean, as I've said, I think NATO members are looking now at opportunities to strengthen the alliance, and we're working toward that.
		So I'm not really sure that they're making a connection between some of what's happening here in other spheres, specifically with the caller's question.
		So I'm not sure NATO members are making that connection or drawing further analogies.
		I think they're focused now on what they can do with their own militaries to make the alliance stronger.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to Denise, who's a Democrat in LaGrange, Illinois.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Denise?
unidentified		Good morning.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		My question is about NATO funding.
		So the member states are pledged to spend a certain percentage of their GDP.
		That's correct.
		Defense funding.
		And is the U.S. over typically and the European countries under?
		Is this like the basis of the problem is my question?
		Yeah, that's a good question.
		I mean, there isn't a mandated percentage amount.
		So historically, NATO members, at least I don't think there is.
		I don't think the treaty itself says you have to spend a certain percentage of your GDP on defense.
		But historically, members have spent anywhere from under 1% to most less than 2% and now creeping higher and higher.
		And as I said, the polls are spending close to 5%.
		The U.S. is not spending 5% of its GDP on defense, right?
		At home, we're actually now having this fight, too, about how much we should be spending on defense.
		So the amount varies.
		But I think to the caller's question, it's an important one because while the percentage does matter, what also matters is what you end up getting for that money, right?
		And the actual capabilities.
		What can you actually do given the amount of money spent?
		And that's a whole separate issue.
		And it's also worth, you know, that's a whole separate program.
		But it's important to keep both in mind, I think.
		It's not just the percentage or the amounts, the dollar amounts or equivalents, but also what you're getting for the money.
		What kinds of capabilities do you need to make sure that the alliance can continue to deter?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And in case Denise and our other viewers missed it, here's a map put together by BBC.
		Defense spending by NATO countries in Europe as a percentage of their GDP.
		And as our guest was saying, you can see Poland, Estonia, and Latvia spending more than the other European countries.
		No coincidence because of their location next to Russia.
		Let's hear from Steve in Ormond Beach, Florida, Republican.
unidentified		Hello, Nadia.
		Thank you very much.
		I believe Trump is doing everything possibly he can to create peace.
		I believe Trump has created peace in the past, and we've seen that.
		And I believe you're doing a good job, and I thank you.
		And President Trump is all doing a very good job.
		And I just want to say, do you believe that his first term, he created peace?
		I think his first term was a success.
		Yeah, I mean, he didn't, wars didn't break out in his first term.
		I think that there is something to his comments, which he states a lot now: is that, you know, Russia didn't invade Ukraine when he was president.
		So I think he did a good job in setting the foundations for peace in his first strength, peace through strength, right?
		Recognizing that a strong America is a foundation for peace and that perceptions of weakness or signs of weakness are destabilizing.
		So I think going forward, peace through strength hopefully will remain a key theme, not just a theme, but also in practice, a key part of what his administration seeks to achieve going forward, the current term.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jack in Maryland Independent.
		Good morning.
		Question or comment?
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for the good work you do.
		And mainly a comment to the fellow listening audience.
		In regard to whether or not we should take Trump seriously all the time, should we take him seriously if we jump on our way back, Michigan, and go to 1987 and look at the trip that he took to Moscow on the Kremlin's dime and then turned around and came home and took out front page ads and newspapers basically saying that we need to get out of NATO.
		Thank you.
		That's all I've got.
		Yeah.
		Well, I think it's important to say literally, right?
		So I think it's important that literally, not every single word means that we have to focus days and days on every single word of the, which is what I think the media and what generally many, many people do.
		Instead, look at outcomes, look at how the actual policies evolve, and look at where we end up.
		I'm not familiar with his 1987 trip to Moscow and what happened after that, but I will go back and look.
		Thank you for highlighting that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Nadia Shadlow, a senior fellow on foreign policy at the Hudson Institute, former deputy national security advisor for strategy with the first Trump administration.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for the conversation this morning.
unidentified		Thank you so much, Greta.
unidentified		It's been a pleasure.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll take a break.
		When we come back, we'll be in open forum.
		Later on in the Washington Journal, we'll be joined by Ted Mitchell of the American Council on Education, the major coordinating body for the nation's colleges and universities.
		We'll talk about Doge cuts impacting higher education and what's next for the former Columbia University student and pro-Palestinian activist detained by immigration officials this week.
		When we come back, actually, we'll return to our question that we asked all of you in the debate happening here in Washington with government funding running out at midnight tonight.
		How will Democrats vote in the Senate?
		Start calling in now.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Sunday on C-SPAN's Q&A.
		New York University journalism professor Meryl Gordon with her book, The Woman Who Knew Everyone, talks about the life of socialite and democratic fundraiser Pearl Mesta, dubbed the hostess with the mostist.
		She was close to three U.S. presidents during the mid-20th century and was known for throwing parties that brought political elites together.
		Social climbing is a lot easier if you have money.
meryl gordon ▲ ● ▼		And Pearl quickly realized when she went with her husband to Washington, who was an advisor to President Wilson during World War I, Pearl realized there was a huge dichotomy in Washington between people and influential government figures who had no money, but a lot of power.
unidentified		And she discovered if she gave, she bought boxes at charity galas, if she gave debutante parties for the daughters of the underfunded, she could have a lot of really influential friends.
		Merle Gordon, with her book, The Woman Who Knew Everyone, Sunday night at 8 Eastern, on C-SPAN's Q ⁇ A. You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on our free C-SPAN Now app.
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jimmy carter ▲ ● ▼		Democracy is always an unfinished creation.
ronald reagan ▲ ● ▼		Democracy is worth dying for.
george h w bush ▲ ● ▼		Democracy belongs to us all.
bill clinton ▲ ● ▼		We are here in the sanctuary of democracy.
george w bush ▲ ● ▼		Great responsibilities fall once again to the great democracies.
barack obama ▲ ● ▼		American democracy is bigger than any one person.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Freedom and democracy must be constantly guarded and protected.
unidentified		We are still at our core a democracy.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		This is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		As a follow-up to our recent podcast regarding the life and times of Anne Frank, we asked author Alexandra Ritchie to tell us more about the horrors of World War II and Poland.
		Ritchie, a citizen of Canada, now lives in the city which is the title of her book, Warsaw.
		Her focus is on 1944 and what was called the Warsaw Uprising.
		In her introduction, she writes, Himmler and Hitler had decided that the entire population remaining in one of Europe's great capital cities was to be murdered in cold blood.
		Himmler referred to Warsaw as the Great Abscess, which was to be completely destroyed.
unidentified		Author Alexandra Ritchie with her book Warsaw 1944, Hitler, Himmler, and the Warsaw Uprising.
		On this episode of BookNotes Plus, with our host, Brian Lamb.
		BookNotes Plus is available on the C-SPAN Now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts.
		Washington Journal continues.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to the Washington Journal.
		All eyes on the Senate as those members face a midnight deadline to fund the government or there will be a shutdown.
		We're getting your thoughts on the debate happening here in Washington about whether or not Democrats will move forward and should with supporting this Republican bill that keeps the government funded through September 30th.
		The stopgap measure called a continuing resolution and the vote to move forward on it in the Senate takes place around 1 p.m. Eastern Time.
		You can watch our coverage, Gabble the Gabble on C-SPAN 2 on our free video mobile app, C-SPANNOW, online, on demand at c-SPAN.org or listen along with C-SPAN Radio.
		What do you think the senators should do?
		Democrats dial in at 202-748-8000.
		Republicans 202-748-8001.
		Independents 202-748-8002.
		Punch Bowl News headline this morning, Schumer folds, the party explodes.
		The minority leader, the leader for the Democratic Party in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, went to the floor last night to say that he thinks Democrats should support this GOP spending bill.
		Associated Press headline, Schumer to advance the GOP bill, warning unwilling to risk a government shutdown as the deadline nears.
		Let's listen to the Democratic leader on the floor yesterday.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		President Trump and Republican leaders would like nothing more than to pull us into the mud of a protracted government shutdown.
		For Donald Trump, a shutdown would be a gift.
		It would be the best distraction he could ask for from his awful agenda.
		Right now, Donald Trump owns the chaos in the government.
		He owns the chaos in the stock market.
		He owns the damage happening to our economy from one end of the country to the other.
		The stock market is crashing.
		Consumer confidence is plummeting.
		Donald Trump is hoping for a shutdown because it will distract from his true agenda, delivering massive cuts to the rich, paid for on the backs of American families.
		He wants to gut Social Security, hollow out Medicaid, slap taxes on consumer goods through his reckless trade wars.
		In a shutdown, we would be busy fighting with Republicans over which agencies to reopen, which to keep closed, instead of debating the damage Donald Trump's agenda is causing the American people.
		Mr. President, I believe it is my job to make the best choice for the country to minimize the harms to the American people.
		Therefore, I will vote to keep the government open and not shut it down.
		There is nobody in the world, nobody, who wants to shut the government down more than Donald Trump and more than Elon Musk.
		We should not give it to them.
		And make no mistake, Democrats will continue to fight what Donald Trump is doing.
		Everything that Trump, Musk, and Republicans have done so far has a clear goal.
		Again, cutting taxes for billionaires, eviscerate Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
		This is the fight that matters most, and the fight we must focus on.
		All the chaos we have seen, all the lawlessness, all the grift and corrupt behavior.
		It's all about rigging the system in favor of the ultra-wealthy at the expense of working Americans.
		This is the fight the American people need to see.
		This is the fight that Democrats will win.
		A shutdown will be a costly distraction from this all-important fight.
		I yield the floor.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The Democratic leader, late Thursday, with that public announcement, a lot of arrows pointed now at the Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, from his colleagues, criticizing him for saying that Democrats should support this stopgap spending measure, giving cover potentially to Democrats to support this GOP spending bill.
		As you know, Republicans control the upper chamber.
		53 Republicans, 47 Democrats.
		Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, says he's going to vote no against it because of what it does to our nation's debt and deficits.
		That means eight Democrats would have to go along with Senator Chuck Schumer there, including the leader, and vote for this in order for it to move forward in the Senate chamber.
		Again, that vote taking place at 1 p.m. Eastern Time today.
		Watch on C-SPAN 2, C-SPANNOW, or online at c-SPAN.org.
		Take a look at the headlines.
		Politico, Schumer's shutdown surrender sends the left into a rage.
		Politico also, with this headline, House Democrats stew over Schumer's capitulation on the GOP funding bill.
		And then from Axios this morning, their headline on this as well: House Dems go into complete meltdown as Schumer folds.
		Axios reporting that some House Democrats are considering going over to the Senate floor during this vote in protest, angrily marching onto the Senate floor, is what Axios is reporting this morning.
		Theodore in Florida, Republican, what is your message to Washington over this debate?
unidentified		I agree with the progressives.
		He poor spoonum.
		Out of the many there are one.
		Out of the midst of chaos comes opportunity.
		I think that there needs to be the coherency of the caucus because we are the public trusted servants of the Constitution and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to out through the ballot box, out and get out.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And Theodore, you're calling on the Republican line.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Are you a Republican?
unidentified		I am.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying this, that the Democrats need to vote no?
unidentified		I'm bilateral.
		I believe in, I'm an Eisenhower to Colin Powell, General Powell Republican.
		But I believe, as when you had the other day, that they'd have Republicans, I would be a value-centered socialist progressive.
		And with spirituality, I believe in the Constitution, and I will fight to defend it, although I'm too old.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Theodore in Florida, let's hear from Tom in Baltimore, Democratic caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Tom, what do you want your party to do here?
unidentified		Good morning, C-SPAN.
		First, I'd like to request that C-SPAN Priest provide a telephone number so those of us that would like to support C-SPAN can make a donation.
		And also, I'd like to make a comment that I think that it's time to go ahead and let things go.
		You see, if you're lost in the woods, you don't want to keep wandering in the wilderness.
		You want to stop and reconnoitre and see where the hell you're at.
		I think it's time to stop.
		Also, too, if your computer locks up, what do you do?
		You turn it off and you reboot it.
		I think it's time to reboot.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what does that mean, Tom?
		So, what action do you want your senators to take then?
		If you want them to stop, it sounds like you think the party is lost.
		So, they're in the woods.
		You want them to stop.
		What does that mean for today in the vote?
unidentified		Maybe we should let it shut down.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Laura, Keene, New Hampshire, Independent.
		Laura, good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Greta.
		You know, I just listened to Chuck Schumer, and I think it's really ironic that he sums up everything that's wrong, and then he wants to go along with it.
		I think to give them a nine-month continuing resolution is a huge mistake.
		If he wants to avoid a government shutdown, I know the one-in-two-month CRs are a pain, but if he wants to keep it open, they need to work with Democrats, not just a Republican-only bill,
		extend it for a month, get a better bill in, because he's not giving voters enough credit if he thinks that we're going to turn against the Democrats for not supporting this nine-month CR.
		And one more thing: this is a huge risk to Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare.
		They can say that it's not, but they're lying about that.
		They do want to cut these programs, and a lot of people are going to be hurt.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so Laura, you're referring to the budget reconciliation proposal when it comes to Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.
unidentified		I just think if you give Trump and Musk another nine months, we're not going to have anything left by the end of that time.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Well, how does a government shutdown stop them, though, with going forth on their agenda?
unidentified		They need to renegotiate an agreement with the Democrats.
		They need to maybe give them a month.
		This is what I'm saying.
		Give them a month or two and renegotiate a reasonable agreement, a reasonable budget with the Democrats.
		This needs to be bipartisan for them to just get together and come up with this continuing resolution with no Democrat input whatsoever is not the way this country should be run.
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Laura, they're in New Hampshire making the point that Republicans crafted this stopgap spending bill without Democrats, so they should pass it then without Democrats.
		More of your calls coming up here, though, but we're going to go to the House floor for a quick pro forma session.
		The House will gavel in, they'll gavel back out, and we'll pick up our conversation.
unidentified		And frankly, the defense of America when it comes to an unlawful court, that the United States, THE House,
		will be in order.
		The chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker.
susan cole ▲ ● ▼		The speaker's rooms, Washington, D.C., March 14th, 2025.
		I hereby appoint the Honorable Adrian Smith to act as Speaker Pro Tempore on this day.
		Signed, Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House of Representatives.
unidentified		The prayer will be offered by the guest chaplain, Reverend Daniel Carson of St. Peter's Catholic Church, Washington, D.C. Holy and gracious Lord, you are the fullness of light and peace, and you have made each of us for good and freedom.
		We praise you for your glory and all your abundant gifts.
		As a nation, we look to you for your guidance and divine providence.
		Be our shepherd and strength, we beseech you.
		Send forth the grace of your wisdom and justice to shine in all the proceedings of our government so that they may tend to the promotion of good and just society and the blessings of equal liberty.
		Help us to live up to the nation's highest principles that we might be agents of hope and goodness.
		We ask this in your holy name, O Lord.
		Amen.
		Pursuant to clause 13 of Rule 1, the Journal of the Last Day's Proceedings is approved.
		The Chair will lead the House in the Pledge of Allegiance.
		Please join me.
		I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
		Chair lays before the House a communication.
susan cole ▲ ● ▼		The Honorable, the Speaker, House of Representatives, sir, pursuant to the permission granted in Clause 2H of Rule 2 of the rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, the clerk received the following message from the Secretary of the Senate on March 12, 2025 at 11:10 a.m. that the Senate passed Senate 960 appointment, Senate National Security Working Group.
susan cole ▲ ● ▼		Signed sincerely, Kevin F. McCumber, Clerk.
unidentified		Under Clause 5D of Rule 20, the Chair announces to the House that in light of the passing of the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crijalva, the whole number of the House is 431.
unidentified		Pursuant to clause 13 of Rule 1, the House now stands adjourned until noon on Tuesday, March 18th, 2025.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The House gaviling in after a quick pro forma session this morning, House lawmakers back in their districts this week after they passed a continuing resolution along party lines.
		All but one Democrat in opposition to the continuing resolution when it was brought up on the House floor.
		All the Republicans except for one supported it.
		It is now before the Senate today.
		And at 1 p.m. Eastern time, the Senate will move forward with a procedural vote that will determine whether or not they can take up the continuing resolution.
		It needs 60 votes, which means Democrats would have to support it to get this continuing resolution, stop gap spending bill, across the finish line.
		You can watch our coverage on C-SPAN 2 of the Senate gabble-to-gabble as well as online at c-span.org or C-SPANNOW, our free video mobile app.
		As we said, Axios and others reporting intra-party squabble over Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer's decision to support this complete meltdown is their headline as Schumer folds.
		And they say that House Democrats are mad because they voted almost unanimously to support it.
		Now they feel like Senate Democrats have left them out in the cold.
		Several members, including moderates, have begun voicing support for a primary challenge to Schumer.
		Floating Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Dan Goldman as possible candidates, according to three House Democrats telling that to Axios.
		Listen to what Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had to say about Schumer's decision in an interview with CNN yesterday.
unidentified		Schumer, I guess the Senate Democratic leader, your senator, said at this meeting that he is going to vote for cloture.
		He is going to vote to allow there to be a simple majority vote.
		You think that's wrong?
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I believe that's a tremendous mistake.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Why?
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I think, well, first and foremost, the American people, if anyone has held a town hall or has seen what has been happening in town halls, American people, whether they are Republicans, Independents, Democrats, are up in arms about Elon Musk and the actual gutting of federal agencies across the board.
		This continuing resolution codifies much of this chaos that Elon Musk is wreaking havoc on the federal government.
		It codifies many of those changes.
		It sacrifices and completely eliminates congressional authority in order to review these impulsive Trump tariffs that he's switching on and off.
		And on top of that, for folks who are concerned about effectiveness in government, this Republican extreme spending bill removes all of the guardrails and all of the accountability measures to ensure that money is being spent in the way that Congress has directed for it to be spent.
		This turns the federal government into a slush fund for Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
		It sacrifices congressional authority and it is deeply partisan.
		And so to me, it is almost unthinkable why Senate Democrats would vote to hand the few pieces of leverage that we have away for free when we've been sent here to protect Social Security, protect Medicaid, and protect Medicare.
unidentified		You think of the job that Chuck Schumer is doing, would you ever challenge him, do you think?
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I think that what we need right now is a united Senate Democratic caucus that can stand up for this country and not vote for cloture and not vote for this bill.
		And I think that the strength that we have is in this moment.
		Reconciliation and all of these, Republicans do not need Democratic votes for that.
		They need it for this.
		And so the strength of our leadership in this moment is going to demonstrate the strength of our caucus.
		And I cannot urge enough how bad of an idea it is to empower and enable Donald Trump and Elon Musk in this moment.
		It is dangerous and it is reckless.
unidentified		Well, you just talked about the strength of your leadership.
		Chuck Schumer just said that he's going to vote for cloture.
		Not only the Democrats can do it, but he's going to participate in it.
		Does that mean that you think he's a weak Senate leader?
		I think that that would be a mistake.
		But we have time between now and tomorrow, and I hope that individuals that are considering that reconsider it.
		I genuinely do.
alexandria ocasio-cortez ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's what New Yorkers want.
		I don't think it's what the country wants.
		This is genuinely not about Democrats or Republicans.
		This is about deep cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
		This is about the evisceration of the federal government.
		This is about codifying the looting that is happening at the behest of Elon Musk in order to pay for his tax breaks for billionaires.
		And we have a responsibility to stand up for it.
		That is why people elected us, and that is our responsibility to them right now.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez applying the pressure to Senate Democrats today.
		They are feeling it from her, from progressives, from grassroots supporters to vote no on this stopgap spending bill.
		Senators facing a midnight deadline to act or there will be a government shutdown and CNN reporting 900,000 federal workers furloughed.
		You are part of the conversation this morning here on the Washington Journal.
		Walter and Butler, Indiana, a Republican, what do you say?
unidentified		Well, good morning, Greta.
		And every time I turn the TV on, you're more beautiful than the day before.
		So whatever you're doing, keep it up.
		Now, after listening to Ms. Cortez for a few seconds, I've actually lost a few brain cells, but there's not much left.
		Hey, I have an idea, Greta.
		I was born in 1956.
		I think we should go back to the size of government, the scope of government, the duties in the departments that they had in 1956, shut it all down, let all the politicians go home and go back to what their real job was.
		I've had the privilege of voting for the greatest president twice, Donald J., well, three times, Donald J. Trump.
		And what's amazing is when you have a president coming in trying to slash, you just said there's 900,000 government employees.
		900,000.
		Look, the balloon has gotten so big.
		It's gotten so fat.
		It has to pop.
		And so why don't we just go back to 1956, send these politicians home.
		And if you go and go home, then you don't get paid.
		You might have to get a real job and produce something, like run a business or do your job.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Walter.
		You mentioned AOC, the Congresswoman.
		And as I said, the reporting this morning that people, folks are, her colleagues are encouraging her to primary Senator Chuck Schumer there because of his decision publicly yesterday to say Democrats should vote for this.
		Now, the minority leader from New York is 74 years old, and he's next up for reelection in 2028.
		He's been serving in the U.S. Senate since 1999.
		Bill in Delaware, Independent.
		Bill, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I thank you for taking my call.
		I feel like the this is.
		I've lived through many of these, what I consider to be sham shutdowns, and I think that this time, I think that the the Democrats, have to have to stand up and say, no, we're not going to allow a billion dollars to be taken out of the, the DC budget.
		No, we're not going to allow an increase in in defense spending at this time because they can still not balance the budget, their budget, all right, bill.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Take a look.
		Take a look at previous shutdowns.
		This is from USA Today.
		In 2019, the government shutdown during the Trump administration lasted 35 days, cost the economy about 3 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
		Then, in 2018, there was another shutdown lasted several hours.
		In 2018, there was another one that lasted three days.
		And then in 2013, under the Obama administration, a government shutdown that lasted 17 days.
		As you noted, Bill, we've been here before.
		Senators facing a midnight deadline tonight.
		Randy, St. Louis, Missouri, Democratic caller.
		Hi, Randy.
unidentified		Hi, how are you?
		What I think is a good idea, but I don't know that it can be done, but we can use the time of, say, shut down the government unless you want to agree to address this unilateral decision-making by reining in Trump, the vice president, and Muskrat.
		And do not allow any of that.
		Just don't allow for some period of time any decisions to be made without three Democrats sitting at the same table for the purpose of negotiating and reaching agreements that are hopefully Pareto optimal, meaning everybody gets something better than they had, but nobody gets it all because that seems to be the problem.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Randy.
		And when the House came in for a quick pro forma session, you heard the speaker there talk about the House and where the party, where the total number of House members serving right now, referencing Congressman Raul Grijalva, who passed away at the age of 77.
		He died yesterday after a battle with cancer, the longest serving congressman from the state of Arizona.
		And this is the Arizona Central's headline this morning.
		Kathy in Dearborn, Michigan Independent.
		Kathy, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning, Greta.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I'm always bothered when our government has to talk about shutting down.
		It's a shame that we can't figure this out and come to better budgets.
		But for the first time, I feel like the Democrats need to actually finally grow a backbone and shut it down because when Trump took office, he just started spending and cutting things that he wasn't supposed to to stuff that was passed by our Constitution and by our Congress and stuff before.
		And he has destroyed a lot of programs.
		That's hurting a lot of people around the world, not just here in the U.S. All right, Kathy.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And you're seeing across the country a lot of emotion about the first few days of the Trump administration and people showing up at town halls.
		C-SPAN covered a town hall yesterday with Representative Chuck Edwards, a Republican of North Carolina.
		He held one despite leadership saying Republicans should not do them in person.
		There were a lot of tense moments, and that is re-airing right now on C-SPAN 3 this morning.
		If you want to tune in and watch that, if you want to catch it later, you can find it on demand online at c-span.org or our free video mobile app, C-SPANNow.
		We're going to take a break.
		When we come back, we'll be joined by Ted Mitchell of the American Council on Education, the major coordinating body for the nation's colleges and universities.
		We'll talk about Doge cuts impacting higher education and what's next for that former Columbia University student and pro-Palestinian activist detained by immigration officials this week.
		Stay with us.
brian lamb ▲ ● ▼		As a follow-up to our recent podcast regarding the life and times of Anne Frank, we asked author Alexandra Ritchie to tell us more about the horrors of World War II and Poland.
		Ritchie, a citizen of Canada, now lives in the city which is the title of her book, Warsaw.
		Her focus is on 1944 and what was called the Warsaw Uprising.
		In her introduction, she writes, Himmler and Hitler had decided that the entire population remaining in one of Europe's great capital cities was to be murdered in cold blood.
		Himmler referred to Warsaw as the great abscess, which was to be completely destroyed.
unidentified		Author Alexandra Ritchie, with her book, Warsaw 1944, Hitler, Himmler, and the Warsaw Uprising on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host, Brian Lamb.
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greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Joining us this morning is Ted Mitchell.
		He's the president of the American Council on Education.
		He also served in the Obama administration as U.S. Undersecretary of Education from 2014 to 2017.
		Mr. Mitchell, thank you for joining us.
		First, let's begin with the American Council on Education.
		What is your group and its mission?
unidentified		Sure, Greta.
		Thanks for having me this morning.
		So American Council on Education, ACE, we call ourselves, has been around for over 100 years, and we've been the coordinating body for two-year, four-year public and private institutions.
		And we work very closely with the federal government to try to create policies and procedures that expand opportunities for American citizens and make sure that American higher education is serving our broader democracy.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We are watching the Senate chamber today, as you know, Ted Mitchell, because they face a midnight deadline to fund the government.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		What does this continuing resolution, which would fund the government until September 30th and avoid a shutdown, what does it mean for higher education?
unidentified		Well, as you mentioned earlier today, we've been through this several times before, so this won't be a surprise.
		It will be difficult for many of our sub-grantees of the federal department of education to continue to do their work.
		A lot of the money will be frozen.
		Hopefully that money will be restored after any shutdown.
		But the transactions between the people who administer these programs and the people on the ground who use the money, that's certainly going to be disrupted.
		We have our eyes, of course, on federal student aid.
		That's one of the essential elements of what the Department of Education does.
		And in the past, federal student aid has continued to flow, and we expect that to be the case, even if there is a government shutdown.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And what about the most recent moves by the Education Secretary, Linda McMahon, and their impact on higher education?
unidentified		Well, it's very clear that the layoffs that essentially took out about half of the department's employees will and already are having an impact on services.
		Again, we spend a lot of time thinking about federal student aid and making sure that the aid goes to the right place and frankly, that aid doesn't go to the wrong place.
		I'm very worried that the cuts that have been made to the Education Department and to federal student aid eliminates the units that are responsible for monitoring for waste, fraud, and abuse.
		That could lead to a lot of fake Pell applications and money flowing to criminal enterprises that we can't allow to have happen.
		So I'm worried about that.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		How will this, though, specifically impact the loan program?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		I mean, without those people there, get into a little more detail for our viewers to understand because most people consider waste, fraud, and abuse happens when you have too many employees.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And I think that that's one of the points that I'm trying to make is that a lot of the work done by the federal government in financial aid, in Title I appropriations across the board is to prevent waste, fraud, and abuse.
		And without that in place, I'm worried that it's going to be a wild west.
		But to answer your question specifically, let's remember last year there was quite a debacle with the federal aid form, the free application for federal student aid, or FAFSA.
		Well, these are the same people who run the FAFSA program, who are now out of work, who now don't have their hands on the machinery to make sure that the application is up, that they're being processed, that the information between universities and institutions and the federal government flows well.
		So we could be looking at another year of significant delays in students getting the money that they have earned and deserve and institutions being able to properly apply those against the bills that students incur for tuition in room and board.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We are talking with Ted Mitchell this morning about the Trump administration's approach to higher education.
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		Before we get to calls, Ted Mitchell, let's talk with the Trump administration this week canceling some $400 million in federal grants and contracts to Columbia University for what the administration says is its failure to address anti-Semitism on campus.
		Your reaction.
unidentified		Well, I think it's a horrible piece of public policy.
		I think it's a threat.
		It has nothing to do with supporting Jewish students on the Columbia University campus and everything to do with punishing the university or seeking to punish the university for a broad range of issues where Columbia and the Trump administration have been at odds.
		I think it's a non-sequitur to say we're going to close down biomedical research that's saving people's lives because we don't like the way that you might or might not have dealt with the pro-Palestinian protests last spring.
		This makes no sense.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		And your reaction to the arrest of Mahmoud Khalil, a former Columbia University student, the administration says played a prominent role in Columbia University's protests against Israel.
unidentified		Yeah, I think that it's both complicated and clear.
		The clear part is that it appears that he's been arrested for expressing First Amendment freedoms.
		He's a green card holder and expressing First Amendment freedoms in an open way.
		And I think that this one we'll read about in the law books for the next 20 years.
		The complicated part is that universities walk this very, very tightrope between free expression and discrimination and harm.
		Title VI, for those who are keeping score versus the First Amendment.
		And last spring was a wake-up call to our institutions.
		And I think many, many, many institutions, including Columbia, began to understand that their procedures, their policies were outdated and not up to the moment.
		And so universities were overwhelmed.
		And so I think over the summer, institutions have taken steps to change their codes of conduct, to change their judiciary processes.
		And I think in some ways, the continued noise about anti-Semitism is fighting last year's battle.
		I'm interested to see it's now a list of 60 institutions that's going to be investigated.
		I'm pretty confident that most of those institutions have done what they needed to do to protect Jewish students while at the same time continuing higher education's robust tradition of dissent and active dialogue.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		NBC reports on those 60 colleges.
		Education Secretary Linda McMahon warns 60 colleges over anti-Semitism on campus.
		I want to show our viewers what the Secretary of State Marco Rubio had to say with reporters Wednesday on Mahmoud's arrest.
		And he says it's not about the First Amendment.
unidentified		Which is what a visa is, which is how this individual entered this country as on a visitor's visa.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		You are here as a visitor.
unidentified		We can deny you that visa.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		We can deny you that if you tell us, when you apply, hi, I'm trying to get into the United States on a student visa.
		I am a big supporter of Hamas, a murderous, barbaric group that kidnaps children, that rapes teenage girls, that takes hostages, that allows them to die in captivity, that returns more bodies than live hostages.
		If you tell us that you are in favor of a group like this, and if you tell us when you apply for your visa, and by the way, I intend to come to your country as a student and rile up all kinds of anti-Jewish student, anti-Semitic activities, I intend to shut down your universities.
		If you told us all these things when you applied for a visa, we would deny your visa.
unidentified		I hope we would.
unidentified		If you actually end up doing that once you're in this country on such a visa, we will revoke it.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		And if you end up having a green card, not citizenship, but a green card as a result of that visa while you're here in those activities, we're going to kick you out.
unidentified		It's as simple as that.
		This is not about free speech.
		This is about people that don't have a right to be in the United States to begin with.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		The Secretary of State yesterday, responding to a reporter's question, Ted Mitchell, do you have a response, reaction to the Secretary of State?
unidentified		With due respect to the Secretary, I think that lumping an application for a student visa with a green card holder is a little bit fatuous.
		And I think that that's where we'll see this discussion take place.
		The administration's been clear that they will double down on their inquiries about students' backgrounds as they apply for student visas.
		And I think that that's something that is certainly within their right and is, in fact, part of their responsibility in looking at student visas.
		And so in that sense, I Understand and agree with making sure that we're bringing people into the students who bringing people into the country who have our best interests at heart as well as their own aspirations.
		But a green card, a green card holder does have a different status.
		And that will be the big part of the conversation going forward.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's get to calls.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Amy, Shelbyville, Indiana, Republican.
unidentified		Hi, thank you for taking my call.
		I had a comment about the FAFSA application.
		When my daughter was about to graduate from high school, it was mandatory, mandatory.
		Her school made it mandatory, and she came home to me, oh, we've got to do it the last day.
		But we weren't anticipating taking out any loans.
		We were going to pay her way through college.
		And all the questions on it were so personal to our family and our finances.
		And I can't remember all the questions.
		Some related to military or ethnicity.
		Of course, finances.
		And it took, had to coordinate with our income tax returns for the last year.
		I found it very invasive.
		We didn't need it.
		We did end up getting a letter because we had to do this.
		And we got a letter that she could get some loans that were, the interest would start immediately or something like that.
		It wasn't anything that we were interested in doing.
		So I think for it being mandatory for everybody, I thought was just not, didn't feel right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted Mitchell, is it not, some colleges even, they just request that you do the FAFSA.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		They make it mandatory that you fill this out.
unidentified		Right.
		It's interesting.
		So there is no federal law about filling out FAFSA.
		And there were several states, Louisiana, for example, had a statewide requirement.
		They turned that back last year.
		And yes, some schools and school districts have used mandatory FAFSA as a way, not to necessarily gather personal information, but to encourage people to go to college.
		So I think that those debates are the kinds of debates that will happen locally going forward.
		I think the government's responsibility is to make sure that the machine works right.
		What I didn't hear in your description was that she was turned back by a system that didn't work.
		There was blah, didn't work, was shut down.
		So, you know, great that you actually got it all through.
		But your point about collecting personal information is an important one because it connects back to the question that Greta asked at the beginning.
		Once again, the people who are responsible for keeping your data, my data, my kids' data safe are the very people who are being eliminated from their positions.
		Add to that the seemingly willy-nilly and sort of wanton dash through financial data systems by the Musk team.
		And I think you've got the recipe for a lot of our private information being used in ways that it was never intended to be used.
		And I see that as one of the major problems with the approach that this administration is taking.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted Mitchell, how do you know, though, at this point, that that data is vulnerable?
unidentified		Service, we know it's vulnerable because we're hearing reports of the Doge people in the financial aid system looking through those bits of information.
unidentified		And I'm not sure what they're doing with it, but I know they're there.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Dave in McKinleyville, California, Independent.
		Hi, Dave.
		Question or comment about higher education.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		You know, there are limits to the right to freedom of speech.
		I think most of us have heard the rule that you don't have a right to shout fire in a crowded theater.
		Well, that same principle should apply to someone who incites hatred and violence against Jewish people.
patty murray ▲ ● ▼		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Never mind the fact that, Dave, I want to take that point.
unidentified		Dave, 100% agreement.
		And I think that this is exactly the way in which a lot of our universities were overwhelmed last spring by people who may have started out in a mode of sort of peaceful protest, articulating points of view and moved rather quickly into whether it's violence against property, violence against people, harassing Jewish students, not giving them free access across campus.
		That's not right.
		And those things need to be limited.
		And when I mentioned sort of the reset in colleges and universities, we don't have it perfect, but I think that there has been much progress made in identifying and defending the line that you drew.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		We'll go to Greg in Trumbull, Connecticut, Democratic Color.
unidentified		Hi, delighted to be on.
		Thanks so much.
		I had a situation, a question, a suggestion.
		The situation is I've got like massive parent-plus loans, put three kids through college, the state college.
		We're talking upwards of $140,000.
		So I would probably have to live to maybe $100,000 before I get that damn thing paid off.
		And I have an opposite suggestion.
		Instead of closing the Department of Education, beef it up, only pay for what you owe.
		Maybe just pay the principal.
		Maybe pay 1%, 2% interest, cover the cost.
		And kind of like the commercial insurance, only pay for what you need, that kind of thing.
		And, you know, maybe go that way.
		I'm not looking for forgiveness.
		I just want to pay for what I owe.
		And, you know, that's my comment.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's take your comment.
unidentified		Great.
		Greg, thanks for that.
		And I thank you for doing everything that you could do and more to help your kids through college.
		And, you know, you raise a question which I see as actually an opportunity with this administration.
		I think that we at the American Council on Education, most of our institutions, and the administration understand that the student loan system itself is overburdened by very different programs with different requirements, different payouts, and so on.
		And it's time for a real refresh there.
		And so I think we should start over.
		I think we should start over with a program that is based on a graduate's income and would be graduates would be responsible for paying back their loan over a period of time according to how much money they make, not according to any sort of one or five or nine different programs that we've got going.
		That would simplify it.
		It would reduce the costs of administering it.
		And it would create opportunities for people to continue to pursue those lower paying jobs that we need in our society, the social workers, the elder care, teachers, police officers, firefighters, and to do that without separate applications and so on.
		Retroactively, I think that there's probably a roll-up to be done and some way of creating, again, a single repayment plan that would allow you to take a look at not the Capitalized interest over 40 years, but to look at that principal that you owe, and I like your idea of some sort of nominal interest rate, but sort of clean the books and spend the next three to four years cleaning the books of that $1.3 trillion of student loans.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted Mitchell, how does that address the high cost of colleges and universities?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		If there's going to be a restart, why isn't there focus on the colleges and universities and the amount of money that they are charging?
unidentified		Yeah, it's a great question, Greg.
		And I think it's, this is on us.
		It's on us in two ways.
		I think that we have let costs rise in ways that have been not as thoughtful as they need to be.
		We need to be thinking about how can we provide the highest quality product at the lowest possible cost.
		And I think that that needs to be sort of the order of the day.
		The other thing that's on us is this very, very weird pricing system we have.
		The geeky answer to your question is the cost of college has actually been going down.
		But there's a really good reason why nobody knows that.
		And nobody knows that because of the way we price.
		We establish a sticker price for higher education, which has gone up and up and up and up.
		So if you're looking to apply to college, you see that this year it's more expensive than last year.
		Well, what happens in the middle is that colleges discount their tuition according to the ability of students to pay.
		So the average discount rate for an independent college in the country, private college, is nearly 50%.
		So the average student pays 50% of that sticker price.
		We need to, there's an article in the Atlantic magazine about we need to, that's a number we need to lose.
		We need to lose that.
		We need to be able to talk with people honestly and directly about how much it's going to cost over the four or five years of a student's enrollment.
		And we're working hard with our colleagues to come up with a way of explaining price and cost in a way that's transparent, honest, and clear.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So if parents can afford the sticker price, they have to pay it because the parents that can't have to pay or are paying much less.
unidentified		Exactly.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Sarah in New Hampshire, Independent.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you.
		I got a couple comments and a question.
		So Donald Trump wants freedom of speech and Musk on their X platform, but then deny it to college students.
		And my statement is: I am not anti-Semitic.
		I voted for two Jewish presidential candidates.
		I dated a nice Jewish boy from New Jersey.
		But to differentiate between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, Judaism is a religion that obeys the Ten Commandments of God.
		Thou shalt not kill, love thy neighbor, and thou shalt not steal.
		Zionism is a genocidal political ideology, which I don't agree with.
		So to blur the line between these two things is ridiculous.
		And my question is: Donald Trump threw out the DEI thing, so it's okay to be prejudicial against candidates of color and women, but not, oh, God forbid, if Jewish students get their rights trampled on.
		And to be pro-Palestinian is not pro-Hamas.
		I'm not against, I'm not for terrorist organizations.
		That's why I do not support Netanyahu, who I believe is the biggest terrorist in the Middle East.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Sarah, I'm going to jump in.
		We heard your point.
		We'll take that, Ted Mitchell.
		I mean, how do colleges and universities deal with this, though?
unidentified		Yeah, so Sarah, I think you've just described really eloquently the situation that our colleges and universities are in.
		We want to protect free speech.
		It's absolutely essential to testing ideas against each other in an academic environment that hopefully the truth emerges from that friction, or at least understanding emerges from that friction.
		At the same time, universities will not support terrorist activities.
		They will not support and cannot support discrimination against students of any stripe and can't support the antagonism toward any tornado student group.
		Against that, I think you see all of these waves crashing, the anti-DEI wave.
		Well, we have yet to figure out what anti-DEI really means.
		There's a lot of rhetoric about that.
		But how can you support students who are different from each other in their difference without it being discriminatory?
		I think that that's one of the things that we're figuring out as we go.
		The other point that you make about differentiating between ideas that are provocative versus ideas that are harmful is that's an age-old question in America, and we'll continue to work that out.
		But the basic thing that I think I take from your comment is that you can't be for freedom of speech as long as it agrees with you.
		And I think that that's where we're this administration is leading us.
		You can have free speech as long as it doesn't disagree with a number of the things that we care about.
		And I'm not just talking about Zionism or anti-Semitism.
		I'm talking about climate change.
		I'm talking about gender research.
		Those things are now off limits because this administration doesn't believe that they're worth asking about and thinking about.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted Mitchell is the president of the American Council on Education.
		They represent 1,600 of the nation's colleges and universities, related associations, and other organizations in the U.S. and abroad.
		He's also a former U.S. Undersecretary of Education in the Obama administration.
		Roger in North Carolina, Democratic caller, let's hear from you.
unidentified		Yes, thank you for taking my call.
		I agree with everything Mr. Mitchell just said.
		He stated my point exactly.
		And what I was going to say is they arrested this guy from Colombia.
		He was just voicing his opinion in support of Palestinians.
		He was not supporting.
		I never, and they can never show where he said he was pro-Hamas.
		Everything Mr. Rubio said, they cannot produce any evidence against anything that he said.
		And also, I saw Mr. Mitchell, he brought up DEI.
		We need to start saying the whole what DEI stands for because it's become an acronym for anti-black, anti-color, against that.
		So if we can say diversity, inclusion, and equity, I think we'll have a better understanding of what that's all about.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mr. Mitchell.
unidentified		Well, thanks for the comment.
		And if you ever want to come and work at ACE, give me a call.
		You know, this is a really, really critical point about DEI.
		DEI has become a thing independent of any definition.
		And it just has this penumbra of badness in some circles.
		It's exactly right that we need to go back to the vocabulary.
		Diversity, what's that mean?
		Let's have an academic environment in which different points of view are represented, different backgrounds are represented.
		Because putting that together is the magic of American education, whether it's K-12 or higher education.
		Bring people together so that they can learn from each other.
		Inclusion, let's make sure that people don't feel like they are outsiders.
		And by the way, this isn't just black and brown.
		This is veterans.
		This is student parents who are trying to manage going to college while raising a family.
		It's adult people who are working and going to school part-time.
		We need environments where they all feel included.
		And equity, let's make sure that people have the resources that they need to succeed.
		So we've been talking a lot at ACE about talking about getting rid of the D and the E and the I and talking about student success.
		What do we need to do in our environments to create the opportunities for student success?
		And so let's remember the veterans.
		Let's remember the handicapped students.
		Let's remember the working parents.
		They are every bit a part of diversity, equity, and inclusion as black students and brown students and others who have been underrepresented in higher education.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Claude, Frederick, Illinois, Republican, welcome to the conversation.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		I have one quick question.
		I'm a 91-year-old, 91-year-old retired military veteran.
		I don't have any claim against the VA, but my question for your guest there is: if we have an American Council on Education, why do we need a Department of Education?
		And I'll take my answer offline.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All righty.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thanks for the question.
		The answer is that we have no policymaking power.
		We have no money.
		We have no authority to press our ideas, but we believe that it's important.
		In fact, we were started by the federal government shortly after World War I as a way of encouraging higher education to make more room for veterans of that conflict.
		And so we see ourselves as aiding in the creation of opportunity for veterans and others rather than regulating.
		We'll go to Assam in Florida, Independent.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Good morning to you.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I am a product of good higher education in this country.
		I came to this country 50 years ago and I did my higher education studies, PhD, taught in universities.
		I always respected the beauty of freedom of speech, research, expanding the horizon of our students, particularly the ones that we bring from overseas, and I'm one of them.
		And I saw the last 10, 15 years major deterioration in that concept.
		A lot of the students go now to China to do their PhDs in English.
		They go to Australia, they go to Canada.
		And part of it is we don't stop and think in the long term to how important higher education is.
		It's to make us think and make intelligent decisions.
		And I see that is deteriorating.
		And any excuse now for stopping students of expressing their opinions is very harmful.
		And then the funding.
		Most universities now, public institutions, are heading to rely heavily on philanthropy.
		Have we ever thought about that?
		How much there's a tremendous wealth being stored in some of these universities, and it's not helping us to recruit some bright students from other parts of the world.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we'll take those comments.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted Mitchell?
unidentified		Great comments and great, great observations.
		And I would agree with you that we're, in a way, looking at the international student issue through the wrong end of the telescope.
		Let's remember that for generations, the very best, very brightest students from around the world wanted nothing more than to come to our universities to study and to learn.
		And many, many, many of them, like you, have stayed.
		And they've gone on to pursue advanced degrees, to do research, to start businesses.
		That's a part of America's strength is our ability to attract the best and the brightest from everywhere.
		So I think we need to flip this narrative that all international students are actually nefarious foreign agents and they want to hurt America.
		That's not been my experience.
		That's not been the experience of the nation.
		And we need to be as open and as welcoming to international students, to the very best and the very brightest, as we ever have been.
		Maybe more, maybe even more so, as the competition with China, the competition with other nations increases in areas of biomedical research, AI, et cetera.
		This is a national security issue, as well as providing opportunities for individual students.
		We need the very best researchers on our shores doing our work, protecting our nation.
		And the more we can open that door again, the better off we will be in the short run and the long run.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to Michael in Racing, Wisconsin, Democratic Color.
unidentified		Hi, thank you for taking that call.
		I want to echo what Sarah said earlier about her definition between Judaism and Zionism.
		And I couldn't agree with her 100%, I couldn't agree with her more.
		And to the black gentleman who called earlier and said, DEI is nothing but a buzzword for anti-black and brown.
		That's exactly what Trump, the Trump administration, and those who are on the right use it for.
		I worked at a small private institution, and we had DEI, and it had nothing to do with black and brown.
		It had to do with everybody, as Mr. Mitchell has said.
		It had to do with students with disabilities, it had to do with veterans, it had to do with single mothers, who may have had issues trying to afford this private institution, and things that we could do to help them.
		It had to do with white women.
		It had to do with all different kinds of folks.
		So everyone who thinks DEI is like an affirmative action thing, that's because we've allowed the right to demagogue it.
		And they always do that.
		Now, my point about the financial aid form, this is something that we dealt with a lot in our institution because a lot of our kids had to fill it out.
		We made it.
		I know one caller said something to the effect of it being mandatory, but I don't think it wasn't mandatory.
		But we told a lot of our kids to fill it out because we had scholarships that we could offer them, although we couldn't offer athletic scholarships, but we had other institutional scholarships that we could offer students based on ethnicity, based on if it was male or female.
		We had all these little scholarships in the institution that we could give these kids if they filled it out.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ted Mitchell?
unidentified		Great, great, great, great point.
		In addition to, as you say, in addition to qualifying students for federal aid, a number of states, for example, use the FAFSA form to determine eligibility for state grants in aid, state loans.
		And absolutely correct that many, many independent institutions use the FAFSA form as a way of identifying need that they could then meet through their institutional scholarships or perhaps scholarships that alumni have made available.
		It's in a funny way, we talk a lot about efficiency.
		In a funny way, FAFSA is a very efficient tool because it allows families to make one stop, create an information file that can then be used by a number of different agencies to look to fill their financial needs.
		So it's a very, very good reminder.
		Thank you.
		Go to Pennsylvania.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Robin, a Republican.
unidentified		Go ahead, Robin.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Question or comment?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Robin, good morning to you.
unidentified		And Hughesville, Pennsylvania.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, moving on to Jim in Parsons, West Virginia, Democratic caller.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Jim, are you ready to go?
unidentified		Yes, ma'am.
		Good morning.
		I was just sitting and listening to the conversation on my phone, and I thought the woman from New Hampshire explained a lot of that situation with that fellow, the green card holder that took part in the protests.
		He's supposed to be expelled from our country.
		I thought she expressed that very well.
		And what Mr. Mitchell makes some excellent points without getting any political bias.
		But tragically, it feels like America's being subjected to rampant politicization of everything.
		And I would just say that the Republican Party has they ridicule education and intelligence, people even thinking it is very sad.
		Somebody else spoke that it's narratives that are put out there.
		Everybody wants a quick, instant narrative they can attach to within five or ten seconds without an understanding or an explanation.
		For example, understanding the history of what land should be the Palestinians, what land should be Israel's.
		The Trump administration ignored all that completely, and it's Abraham Accord's pursuits.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jim.
		I'm going to move on to Linda, who's in North Carolina, Republican.
		Linda, your turn.
unidentified		What land should be Republican?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Linda, good morning in Besselmere City, North Carolina.
unidentified		Trump administration.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Linda, Republican in North Carolina, one last call for you.
		All right, Howard, Salisbury, North Carolina, Democratic caller.
		Howard.
unidentified		Yeah, talk of the morning to you, C-Span.
		Morning.
		You know, it's very interesting the way that let's get back to the DEI.
		I remember when the military helicopter had crashed into that private plane and killed all those people and the pilots.
		And the first thing that came out of Trump mouth was DEI hired, right?
		And as soon as he found out that, and as tragic this was, as soon as he found out that it was white people, he didn't say anything else more about the DEI.
		And the family members didn't even push back on him making that statement without even having any kind of humanity or whatever.
		But look, I got a question.
		Do you believe that the Republicans, the GOP, when they voted for Trump, do you believe that this is what they voted for?
		And if not, and if so, why are they not complaining if not?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ted Mitchell, you want to take that?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Political question.
unidentified		Yeah, way out of my way out of my skill area and above my pay grade, but I'll take a shot at it.
		I think that you hit the nail on the head when you talked about looking for very simplistic solutions.
		And this is where higher education is sometimes in trouble because we don't live by simplistic solutions.
		Higher education is by nature, it tries to complexify things.
		So the caller, earlier caller, think about the history of the Middle East, the history of Palestine.
		Those are the kinds of things we deal with in higher education.
		They are not really open to very simplistic, cut-and-dried answers.
		It's very frustrating for people who want cut-and-dried answers.
		And so I think that a lot of voters in November were really looking for people to blame, things to blame, quick answers, easy fixes.
		And the Trump administration did a very good job of packaging all of those up, using slogans, using DEI to mean things that it never meant, but creating that sense of we can solve all of your problems really quickly if you just vote for us.
		I think that that's what people were looking for.
		And I think that they're now maybe not opposed to what's happening, but they're seeing what the consequences are of applying a sledgehammer to very, very complicated issues that probably need a microscope to deal with.
		And I think higher education is caught in those crosshairs.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Stephen in Northampton, Pennsylvania, Independent, we are talking about higher education this morning.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I've been following a lot of things since I was a little kid.
		In third grade, they introduced a metric system to us in math, and they destroyed the math in this country like they did with this new math they have.
		Plus, following the First Amendment through history and government classes.
		Now, following all the situations up until this time in the news and current events, there's been a sort of type of programming of the American people in one way or another.
		Back in the 70s, it was hiring other people of races and colors over the people who were qualified to take positions.
		And the Department of Education tried to introduce many things over the past 53 years or more.
		Now, I'd like to know why everybody is totally against with the revitalization of this country back to the Constitution, which is specific.
		All right.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		So, Ted Mitchell, are you following this?
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		You have a response?
unidentified		Yeah, so look, I think I was no fan of new math, and I think that we move forward not in a straight line, but in kind of gaining knowledge over time.
		And I think that that's one of the reasons why the research function of higher education is so essential and why I'm so worried about some of the current bludgeoning of the research enterprise.
		But you also raise the point that we kind of lurch from one kind of indoctrination to another.
		And I take issue with that.
		I think that there are different ideas that there's a pool of ideas that different emerge at different times as potential solutions to a problem of the day.
		There's no question that higher education, American enterprise, had been closed off to a lot of subgroups, women in science and engineering and manufacturing as an example.
		So I think we've tried to correct, sometimes we over-correct.
		But I think that this is an example at minimum of an over, over, over-correction.
		It's throwing out babies and bathwater and the bathtub itself in an effort to sort of bring us back to some sort of golden age.
		Our first caller talked about, let's go back to 1956.
		That's also my birth year.
		There was a lot right about America in 1956, but there was a lot that we have helped to fix since then.
		And let's be careful that we don't surrender incredible gains that we've made in civil rights, incredible gains that we've made in science and technology, incredible gains in the growth of our economy and the average standard of living.
		These are not all incidental.
		These are all a part of what happens when we do open ourselves to new ideas and to new ways of thinking and acting.
greta brawner ▲ ● ▼		Ted Mitchell is the president of the American Council on Education.

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