| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
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| This is Washington Journal for Saturday, March 1st. | ||
| Yesterday, an Oval Office meeting between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky turned in to a shouting match. | ||
| Reaction to the heated argument between the two leaders, which played out in front of the news media, includes praise for President Trump, shock and astonishment, and concern about what it means for peace deal prospects. | ||
| To start today's program, we want to hear from you what's your reaction to the Trump-Zelensky Oval Office meeting. | ||
| Here are the lines: Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001, and Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can text your comments to 202-748-8003. | ||
| Be sure to include your name and city. | ||
| You can also post a question or comment on Facebook at facebook.com/slash C-SPAN or on X at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Good morning, and thank you for being with us today. | ||
| We will get to your calls and comments in just a few minutes, but first, want to give you a little more information and share some headlines that are in today's newspaper. | ||
| This from The Washington Post: Fury boils over in Oval Office Shocking Globe. | ||
| This is the front page of the Wall Street Journal. | ||
| Trump-Zelensky meeting implodes. | ||
| The secondary byline, Your Country is in big trouble. | ||
| That was a quote from President Trump during that meeting. | ||
| And this from The New York Times: Trump in Vance Scold Zelensky in Blow Up. | ||
| One of the articles on the front page of the New York Times, the subheadline is a visit abruptly ends, imperiling a deal for peace. | ||
| In part, it says the United States' relationship with Ukraine erupted in a storm of acrimony on Friday as President Trump and Vice President JD Vance berated President Vladimir Zelensky of Ukraine in an explosive televised Oval Office showdown and abruptly cut short a visit meant to coordinate plans for peace. | ||
| In a fiery public confrontation, unlike any scene between an American president and foreign leader in modern times, Mr. Trump and Mr. Vance castated Mr. Zelensky for not being grateful enough for U.S. support in Ukraine's war with Russia and sought to strong-arm him into making a peace deal on whatever terms the Americans dictated. | ||
| It was that meeting that exchange happened. | ||
| Here is part of the event. | ||
| Let's start from the beginning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| First of all, during the war, everybody has problems. | ||
| Even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now. | ||
| But you will feel it in the future. | ||
| God bless. | ||
| You don't know that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
God bless you. | |
| God bless. | ||
| You're not. | ||
| Don't tell us what we're going to feel. | ||
| We're trying to solve a problem. | ||
| Don't tell us what we're going to feel. | ||
| I'm not telling you. | ||
| Because you're in no position to dictate that. | ||
| Remember this. | ||
| You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. | ||
| We're going to feel very good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're going to feel very good and very strong. | |
| You're right now not in a very good position. | ||
| You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about you. | ||
| From the very beginning of the war, you're not in a good position. | ||
| You don't have the cards right now. | ||
| With us, you start having cards. | ||
| Right now, you're not playing cards. | ||
| You're playing cards. | ||
| You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. | ||
| You're gambling with World War III. | ||
| You're gambling with World War III. | ||
| And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, that's back to you far more than a lot of people said they should have. | ||
| Have you said thank you once in this entire meeting? | ||
| No, in this entire meeting. | ||
| You said thank you today. | ||
| You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. | ||
| Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country. | ||
| Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war you've been speaking loudly. | ||
| He's not speaking loudly. | ||
| Your country is in big trouble. | ||
| Wait a minute. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| You've done a lot of talking. | ||
| Your country is in big trouble. | ||
| I know. | ||
| You're not winning. | ||
| We're not winning this. | ||
| You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. | ||
| Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. | ||
| We've been alone, and we are thankful. | ||
| I said thanks for this cabinet. | ||
| You haven't been alone in this cabinet. | ||
| We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion. | ||
| You won't. | ||
| We gave you your military equipment. | ||
| And you met a brave, but they had to use our military equipment. | ||
| If you didn't have our military equipment, if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In three days. | |
| In three days, I heard it from Putin. | ||
| In three days. | ||
| This is something. | ||
| Maybe less. | ||
| In two weeks. | ||
| Of course, he has. | ||
| It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this. | ||
| I was going to tell you. | ||
| To say thank you. | ||
| I said it a lot of times. | ||
| Except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong. | ||
| We know that you're wrong. | ||
| But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. | ||
| I think it's very important. | ||
| That's why I kept this going so long. | ||
| You have to be thankful. | ||
| You don't have the cards. | ||
| You're buried there. | ||
| People have died. | ||
| You're running low on soldiers. | ||
| Don't listen. | ||
| Don't please. | ||
| Running slow on soldiers, it would be a damn good thing. | ||
| Then you tell us, I don't want to ceasefire. | ||
| I don't want to ceasefire. | ||
| I want to go and I want this. | ||
| Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop causing kills. | ||
| Of course, we want to stop the war. | ||
| But I'm saying you don't want to see it through you. | ||
| I want to cease guarantee because you'll get a ceasefire faster than anybody. | ||
| Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think. | ||
| Following yesterday's meeting, there was a statement posted to President Trump's Truth Social account. | ||
| It said we had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. | ||
| Much was learned that could never be understood without conversations under such fire and pressure. | ||
| It's amazing what comes through emotion. | ||
| And I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. | ||
| I don't want advantage. | ||
| I want peace. | ||
| He's disrespectful. | ||
| He disrespected the United States of America and its cherished Oval Office. | ||
| He can come back when he is ready for peace. | ||
| This first hour, we are getting your reaction to that Oval Office meeting. | ||
| Again, the lines, Democrats, 202-748-8,000. | ||
| Republicans 248. | ||
| I'm so sorry. | ||
| 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| We will start with Al in Florida, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Al. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'm old enough to remember that with the third Reagan term with Bush Sr., that disgruntled politics ended at the shore's edge. | ||
| That's not happening any longer. | ||
| In other words, foreign policy wasn't politicized. | ||
| Democrats now are using their smear machine again. | ||
| Putin invaded twice under Obama and under Biden. | ||
| Never happened under Trump. | ||
| It's been occupied only five weeks under a Republican administration. | ||
| Five weeks. | ||
| Number one. | ||
| Number two, it was Mitt Romney during the debate with Obama that said that Russia was our biggest problem. | ||
| Everyone laughed at him. | ||
| The left-wing media laughed at him. | ||
| So we can go on and on here. | ||
| This is a Democrat-cause problem, another issue that Trump has to handle. | ||
| And I want to remind the Democrats: you were the folks that wanted to end endless wars very badly. | ||
| You didn't want to get rid of Saddam Hussein, who had rape rooms, murdered, executed people. | ||
| Democrats politicized that, getting rid of Hussein. | ||
| They wanted to drive George W. Bush's numbers down. | ||
| So Democrats have caused this. | ||
| They own this. | ||
| And now Trump wants to put an end to this. | ||
| Clearly, what we saw yesterday, President Lizzie Lizinski was advised from Democrats to continue the smear machine. | ||
| This needs to end. | ||
| That was Al in Florida. | ||
| We'll go to Carolyn in Virginia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Carolyn. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I have been on here for a while, but I've seen the interview yesterday. | |
| I never seen such a speaker in my life. | ||
| I don't understand what he's thinking. | ||
| I knew he wasn't going to help him because he didn't want the president to help him at all. | ||
| But if Putin wins that country, he's going to march over to the other country. | ||
| I don't understand. | ||
| We got to get involved. | ||
| Trump acts like that's what he wants Putin to do because him and Putin are in here together and everybody's on his side. | ||
| Do you know it's going to affect their children and their grandchildren and affect this country bad? | ||
| And I just don't understand what's going on in people's head. | ||
| That man, did he know all these kids and children are going to be kids and Putin over there killing people now? | ||
| I just don't understand what is going on. | ||
| We're going to let one man come into our country and dictate to the people of the United States, take their jobs, stay home, and be hungry. | ||
| What is wrong with these people? | ||
| Do you know the Publicans, they're going to realize that they grandchildren, their children are going to be caught up in this stuff? | ||
| I just don't understand what's going on. | ||
| Are we going to be people letting him do what he wants to do? | ||
| Got your point, Carolyn. | ||
| We'll go to Sandra in Atlanta, Georgia, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Sandra. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| How are you? | ||
| Can you hear me? | ||
| Yes, I can. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, ma'am. | |
| Okay, I am an independent. | ||
| I didn't vote for Trump, and I didn't vote for Kamala. | ||
| But on this issue, and I call him the Don, on this issue, the Don is correct. | ||
| It's time to stop, you know, funding a war that can't be won. | ||
| You know, we need the money in this country. | ||
| And I think with Zelensky, you know, for people who want to help Zelensky, you know, what he really needs is boots on the ground. | ||
| And I want to know what size do you wear? | ||
| If you want the boots on the ground for yourself or your children, what size boots do you wear? | ||
| And so I'm in complete agreement with the president and what he did yesterday. | ||
| On the other issues with him, no. | ||
| But on this one, I have to agree with him 100%. | ||
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| That was Sandra in Georgia. | ||
| Let's hear from Tom in Ohio, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for the platform. | ||
| The whole situation yesterday was terribly embarrassing. | ||
| And I believe it was a setup. | ||
| And I think it played out just the way Trump wanted it. | ||
| Thanks for the time. | ||
| Bye. | ||
| Tom, you still there? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, sorry, Tom. | ||
| I was going to ask you, embarrassing for who? | ||
| Just wanted to get some clarification on that. | ||
| But we'll go to Eddie in Georgia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Eddie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, everybody. | |
| Yes, it's embarrassing with this president, this backstabber in office. | ||
| Trump ain't nothing but a backstabber. | ||
| He backstabbed all of us people, Republican, y'all wake up because I'm telling you that what he did yesterday to La Risky is disgraceful. | ||
| It wasn't, you know, we need them. | ||
| They need us. | ||
| Trump and Vans and all of them just showing off, you know, just like I'm glad. | ||
| I'm just glad we're in a money-grabbing, grumping war with the prices that we're going through with our rent. | ||
| And Trump ain't going to do nothing for us. | ||
| I'm telling you, Trump, we're going to be so bagged up, bagged up and in trouble. | ||
| We're going to be shaking with Trump in this office. | ||
| Trump ain't nothing but a backstabber. | ||
| Good point, Eddie. | ||
| We'll go to Kevin in Connecticut, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Kevin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| Good morning. | ||
| Yeah, I stand with our allies. | ||
| I guess everybody forgot about World War II, Pearl Harbor. | ||
| The OSHAs didn't stop those guys in 9-11, right? | ||
| 9-11, the OTIS didn't stop 9-11. | ||
| And for 25 years, our allies were with us in Afghanistan, in Iraq. | ||
| For 25 years, they were there. | ||
| Our allies didn't ask for nothing. | ||
| They were there when we needed them. | ||
| But now when our allies need us to help defend Ukraine, this country tells our allies to take a hike. | ||
| That ain't right. | ||
| We lost our allies yesterday because of King Trump. | ||
| King Trump is mental, our intelligence, our FBI agencies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We are in a bad shape as a country right now. | |
| And I tell you, in four years, Trump is not leaving that office in four years. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I think America better wake up. | |
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| That was Kevin in Connecticut. | ||
| It was President Zelensky who also responded after yesterday's meeting on social media, posting this on X. Thank you, America. | ||
| Thank you for your support. | ||
| Thank you for the visit. | ||
| Thank you at POTIS, Congress, and the American people. | ||
| Ukraine needs just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that. | ||
| President Zelensky also spoke yesterday after the meeting on Fox News during the interview. | ||
| He reflected on the meeting and what it means for the future of U.S. and Ukraine relations. | ||
| Here's a clip. | ||
| Thank the public spat in the Oval Office in front of the media served Ukrainians well today. | ||
| I think this kind of spat is, I mean, this, we have, I mean, this is not good for both sides anyway. | ||
| And I will be open, but I can't, you know, change our Ukrainian attitude to Russia. | ||
| And I don't want their killers for us. | ||
| You know, this is very, very clear that Americans are the best of our friends. | ||
| Europeans are the best of our friends. | ||
| And Putin, with Russia, they are enemies. | ||
| And it doesn't mean that we don't want peace. | ||
| We just want to recognize the reality, the real situation. | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Let's hear from Cindy in Norwalk, Connecticut, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Cindy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| It was very upsetting what happened yesterday. | ||
| I don't think that we're supposed to blame Trump for all this. | ||
| Zelensky shouldn't have started that in public. | ||
| He could have talked to President Trump in private. | ||
| This was a first step. | ||
| Security talks might have come later. | ||
| Let's remind people in 2014, you know, the Ukrainians have been attacking the Russian Ukrainians in the Donbass region where thousands of those people who want to be Russian have been killed. | ||
| So Ukraine isn't totally innocent in all this. | ||
| It's horrible what has happened. | ||
| No, Russia was wrong to invade. | ||
| But you know, there's been fighting over that Donbass region for decades. | ||
| And, you know, thousands, Ukrainians killed thousands of Ukrainian Russians. | ||
| People forget about that. | ||
| You need to go back and look at history, but everybody just wants to be on Donald Trump, who did not, who had nothing to do with this war starting. | ||
| Blame your ex-president for this happening with the talk of a little incursion, and that gave Russia the green light to go in. | ||
| The time to back Ukraine up. | ||
| And yes, I agree with that previous caller. | ||
| What Zelensky wants is our boys over there. | ||
| And I'm not sending my only son over there to die for this. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Cindy in Connecticut, Bobby in Oklahoma, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Bobby. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Mr. Trump needs to figure out one thing. | ||
| Everybody in the United States didn't vote for Donald Trump, and we sure didn't vote for Elon Musk. | ||
| And JD Vance is a clown. | ||
| Also, they made an ass out of themselves yesterday, talked to Lewinsky. | ||
| If I was Lewinsky, I wouldn't give them nothing. | ||
| Not nothing. | ||
| And these people that vote against this Medicaid bills, they are gone. | ||
| The Republicans in our state is gone if they vote against Medicaid. | ||
| That was Bobby in Oklahoma. | ||
| Let's hear from Tadaya. | ||
| Tadela in New York, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, good morning to you. | |
| Well, it was a disaster. | ||
| I can't say that. | ||
| Because I have never seen diplomacy run on television like that. | ||
| This could have been done, you know, as usual. | ||
| And you might hear about it as a leaking news or whatever. | ||
| But the problem is that, to be honest with you, Lewinsky didn't do anything. | ||
| He didn't disrespect the president. | ||
| He didn't disrespect the United States. | ||
| He defends his country. | ||
| That should be the case. | ||
| Whether you are a small country, whether a superpower, he is a people of Ukraine. | ||
| And he has to defend their interests. | ||
| He won't ceasefire with security guarantees. | ||
| What is wrong with that? | ||
| Tell me. | ||
| We have seen what happened from 2014 until now. | ||
| And Trump brought this issue as a domestic issue. | ||
| We know that. | ||
| The Russia afiasco, Ukraine, Russia. | ||
| Trump was accused. | ||
| All these internal problems yesterday boiled up and Trump was angry. | ||
| He was angry because of the past what they did to him. | ||
| It should never have been done. | ||
| I'm siding with Ukraine because Ukraine is saying we need guarantee and Trump doesn't want to take guarantee. | ||
| He wants to sign in the paper. | ||
| He said no. | ||
| Very sad, but it should not be a partition. | ||
| Now, Congress should say this is bad. | ||
| He shouldn't. | ||
| Somebody asked me, Zelensky should resign. | ||
| How dare? | ||
| Why should Zelensky resign? | ||
| For what? | ||
| We don't do that. | ||
| We are not bullying anybody. | ||
| United says, got it wrong. | ||
| Trump got it wrong. | ||
| Go back and discuss these things. | ||
| We should work with our alliance. | ||
| This is North America versus Ukraine. | ||
| It is the whole world. | ||
| United Nations is behind all these things. | ||
| We need peace, but we don't want any big country bullying a small country. | ||
| I don't agree with that. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| That was Tadela in New York. | ||
| It was yesterday after the meeting. | ||
| President Trump was leaving for Mar-a-Lago. | ||
| He stopped and spoke with press talking more about the reaction to the meeting. | ||
| Here's a clip. | ||
| We had a meeting today, as you know, with President Zelensky, and I would say it didn't work out exactly great from his standpoint. | ||
| I think he very much overplayed his hand. | ||
| We're looking for peace. | ||
| We're not looking for somebody that's going to sign up as strong power and then not make peace because they feel emboldened. | ||
| And that's what I saw happening. | ||
| I'm looking for peace. | ||
| We're not looking to go into a 10-year war and play games. | ||
| We want peace. | ||
| And it was just my impression that if we do that, if we sign up, he's looking for something that I'm not looking for. | ||
| He's looking to go on and fight, fight, fight. | ||
| We're looking to end the death. | ||
| He's got to say, I want to make peace. | ||
| He doesn't have to stand there and say about Putin this, Putin that, and all negative things. | ||
| He's got to say, I want to make peace. | ||
| I don't want to fight a war any longer. | ||
| His people are dying. | ||
| He doesn't have the cards, just so you understand it, okay? | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Let's hear from Ron in Maryland, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Ron. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, good morning. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| It looks like President Trump is afraid of Putin. | ||
| You know, I wonder what would happen if he attacked this, if Putin attacked this country. | ||
| Would we just give up? | ||
| You know, just like the other callers have said, you know, our allies have supported us for years. | ||
| Now we're going to sit up and support Putin. | ||
| Putin is the first one that invaded Ukraine in 2014. | ||
| And them people, you know, that was their country. | ||
| And we should support Ukraine. | ||
| I just feel that this president's going the wrong way. | ||
| And I'll tell you one thing: if they cut our Social Security at Medicare, the Republicans are not going to be in office too much longer after 2026. | ||
| That's all I have to say. | ||
| I hope Americans stand up and watch what's going on because this president is taking us in the wrong direction. | ||
| And he's not doing anything. | ||
| He said when he was running for president on day one, he was going to cut the price of food. | ||
| Since they came in, grocers, they haven't done one thing to try to lower the price of groceries. | ||
| Not one thing. | ||
| Have me talking about it. | ||
| So Americans, we need to stand up and do what's right. | ||
| And I think the Republican Party, I don't know if it looks like they're taking us in the wrong direction. | ||
| Got your point, Ron. | ||
| We'll go on to Francia in North Carolina, line for Republican. | ||
| Good morning, Francia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I listen to everybody, but first of all, I just don't trust the line tongue. | |
| And that's all our president has been giving us. | ||
| And it was a disgrace what he did yesterday. | ||
| And if he was going to talk to another foreign leader, it should have been behind closed doors. | ||
| Everybody forget what he tried to do with Biden. | ||
| That was Francia in North Carolina. | ||
| Let's hear from Benny in Stockton, California, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Benny. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| This was the most embarrassing thing that I saw on television yesterday. | ||
| JD Vance interjected his opinion, insulted the president of Ukraine, and President Trump just lambasket the president. | ||
| He didn't disrespect America. | ||
| That's their talking point now. | ||
| I wish Trump could be impeached along with JD Vance. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| That was Benny in California. | ||
| Diane in Ann Arbor, Michigan, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Diane. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Yes, President Zelensky went into this meeting as his number one ask for was security, that Trump would guarantee that Putin wouldn't reinvade, wouldn't start up the war again, and break any treaties. | ||
| Trump would not give that to Zelensky, but Trump wanted the mineral deal. | ||
| And I think this was a shakedown. | ||
| This was a shakedown where he put, tried to put Zelensky on his back foot and was very abusive. | ||
| So was Vance. | ||
| It was a two-on-one. | ||
| I mean, what kind of policy can Zelensky expect when he's just jumped on like this? | ||
| I think Zelensky handled himself very well. | ||
| And I even noticed that Trump touched Zelensky. | ||
| Now, if Zelensky dared touch Trump, it would have been a big blow-up. | ||
| It would have been called an assault. | ||
| We have got to understand, it was like a father slapping down a son. | ||
| I mean, every time Zelensky tried to say something, Trump piped up louder and louder. | ||
| It was intimidation. | ||
| But I thought Zelensky was very strong, and he stuck to his ask to get security. | ||
| And even though Trump wouldn't get it, and I'm sure Putin is dancing in the street, and it really makes me even question what Trump is, whether he's a U.S. president or Russian operative, which it didn't look like a U.S. president, that's for sure. | ||
| So he has, they have to give Zelensky some security. | ||
| I wouldn't even say agreement because we backed out on Ukraine before. | ||
| But he has to put that in the contract that Putin will stay out of Ukraine if the U.S. gets the minerals. | ||
| This was embarrassing. | ||
| This was a disgrace from Trump and Vance. | ||
| Vance shouldn't even have been there. | ||
| I mean, it didn't even look right. | ||
| It looked cruel. | ||
| And if that is what is in Vance's, in Trump's heart is cruelty, that isn't even diplomacy. | ||
| He was just cleaning his, that was a laundry list that Trump branded. | ||
| And even when he was at the end of the meeting, Trump said, boy, that was good TV. | ||
| This was a setup for TV. | ||
| That's all it was. | ||
| And Zelensky went in being honest and sincere, and it was nothing but a show for Trump and Vance. | ||
| What cruelty. | ||
| Sorry, Plant Diane. | ||
| We'll go to Donna in Michigan, line four Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Donna. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Well, in watching that yesterday or watching the expert today repeat it over, I believe that people don't realize that this setup for this program thing to happen yesterday had already been discussed about what was going to happen. | ||
| They already knew that they were trying for a ceasefire. | ||
| So why would Zelensky come in and try to change the terms kind of? | ||
| Because the ceasefire only is to stop the war and then have the big discussions about what would happen with Russia and Ukraine after the fact. | ||
| So you've got to kind of take that into consideration that this was just to stop the war, as in stop the fighting currently, and then make all the negotiations between them all later. | ||
| So we have to remember that this was already, you know, decided currently. | ||
| That was Donna in Michigan. | ||
| Let's hear from Francis in Florida, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Francis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, and thanks for having me. | |
| I just want to reiterate, you know, I think that Delinsky forgot why he was there. | ||
| We understand that he's been at war for three years, but he needs to start to understand that America is not going to fund an endless war and that we will not put our boots on the ground in his country. | ||
| And there does need to be put in place something to stop Putin and his aggression. | ||
| Thanks for having me. | ||
| That's Francis in Florida. | ||
| Yesterday it was Secretary of State Mark Arubio. | ||
| He was also sitting in on that meeting with President Trump and President Zelensky. | ||
| He was on CNN last night talking about the meeting. | ||
| Here's a clip. | ||
| But what specifically do you want to see President Zelensky apologize for? | ||
| Well, apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became. | ||
| There was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic. | ||
| Look, this thing went off the rails. | ||
| You were there, I believe. | ||
| It went off the rails when he said, let me ask you a question to the vice president. | ||
| What kind of diplomacy are you talking about? | ||
| Well, this is a serious thing. | ||
| I mean, thousands of people have been killed, thousands. | ||
| And he talks about all these horrible things that have happened to prisoners of war and children. | ||
| All true, all bad. | ||
| This is what we're dealing with here. | ||
| It needs to come to an end. | ||
| We are trying to bring it to an end. | ||
| The way you bring it to an end is you get Russia to the table to talk. | ||
| And he understands that attacking Putin, no matter how anyone may feel about him personally, forcing the president into a position where you're trying to goad him into attacking Putin, calling him names, maximalist demands about Russia having to pay for the reconstruction, all the sorts of things that you talk about in a negotiation. | ||
| Well, when you start talking about that aggressively, and the president's a deal maker, he's made deals his entire life, you're not going to get people to the table. | ||
| And so you start to perceive that maybe Zelensky doesn't want a peace deal. | ||
| He says he does, but maybe he doesn't. | ||
| And that active, open undermining of efforts to bring about peace is deeply frustrating for everyone who's been involved in communications with them leading up to today. | ||
| And I think we should apologize for wasting our time for a meeting that was going to end the way it did. | ||
| It was Secretary Rubio who also tweeted after the meeting yesterday. | ||
| This is what he said. | ||
| Thank you, POTUS, for standing up for America in a way that no president has ever had the courage to do before. | ||
| Thank you for putting America first. | ||
| America is with you. | ||
| And in response to that post, Eric Swalwell, a congressman from California, tweeted, bro, did you write this? | ||
| We all saw you. | ||
| You tried to shrink in your chair. | ||
| You looked at Trump like he was some crazy pops who was embarrassing you on your first date. | ||
| Don't BSS, grow a pear. | ||
| Just a little under 30 minutes left in this first hour, getting your reaction to yesterday's Oval Office meeting between President Trump and President Zelensky. | ||
| Let's hear next from Terry in Atlanta, Georgia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Terry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning, everyone, and happy March. | |
| I have to say, as an American citizen, I expect my president to be diplomatic. | ||
| And what we saw yesterday, there was no diplomacy. | ||
| I have to say, the vice president in the past has never spoken out of turn the way that JD Vance did. | ||
| They looked like bullies on the playground. | ||
| You know, you can't tell me what to do. | ||
| You can't tell me what to think. | ||
| You don't know what we're going to feel. | ||
| And I think it was prescripted that they wanted to bring Zelensky in, President Zelensky in to the White House and belittle him. | ||
| Now, you have to look at the photos that have come out of Ukraine. | ||
| Ukraine is pretty much destroyed. | ||
| So let us say that he does want to end the war. | ||
| Let us all say factually that Ukraine did not start this war. | ||
| Russia attacked Ukraine. | ||
| Ukrainians were minding their own business. | ||
| Putin attacked them. | ||
| And I am not hearing anyone talk about the fact that President Putin attacked Ukraine viciously. | ||
| They have viciously continued to kill people in Ukraine, and the sycophants around Donald Trump are just giving him glory. | ||
| Oh, he's wonderful. | ||
| Oh, apologize to America. | ||
| Well, JD Vance was one of the people who voted against aid to Ukraine, and he's in there saying, you know, you should be grateful to us for giving you this aid. | ||
| They weren't part of that. | ||
| They didn't support that. | ||
| And I don't think they support it now. | ||
| We want, T.E. Zelensky wants peace. | ||
| It seems everyone wants peace except the man who started this war. | ||
| So let's bring an end to the war and then let's try and help the Ukrainians get back on their feet. | ||
| Not with U.S. funding. | ||
| No. | ||
| We've given them enough funding already. | ||
| I think Europe should step in. | ||
| The Europeans should step in and they should begin to help the Ukrainians to get back on their feet. | ||
| But the first thing that has to happen is Putin has to be stopped. | ||
| He has to be stopped. | ||
| His troops need to be pulled out, sent home, and this war needs to end. | ||
| And thank you very much. | ||
| I hope that our next president brings diplomacy back to the White House. | ||
| Everyone, have a great day. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Terry in Georgia. | ||
| Let's hear from Arlene in New York, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Arlene. | ||
| Arlene, are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I'm here. | |
| Hi, Arlene. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I'm reading the television and I don't see that I'm on. | ||
| But what I want to say is that if the Democrats are looking for a moment for the Republicans to implode, well, it was yesterday. | ||
| Trump did it. | ||
| And he had no right to treat Zelensky that way. | ||
| Yes, Zelensky wants peace, but at what price? | ||
| A ceasefire that Putin will not stand up to. | ||
| Why Trump is aligning with Putin is beyond me. | ||
| Putin won't break the ceasefire because I'm Trump. | ||
| Please. | ||
| He's using the Nebel Chamberlain playbook. | ||
| That's all I have to say. | ||
| Thank you for my call. | ||
| That was Arlene. | ||
| Let's hear from Brad in Ohio, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Brad. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, I just won't tell you all. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| I hope you're having a great day today. | ||
| I just want to reiterate a few things about history and the truth, frankly, that Zelensky was trying to speak about. | ||
| First of all, the Budapest memorandum put in there that we are supposed to protect Ukraine with the UK from any attack on their sovereign territory. | ||
| And Russia was part of that agreement. | ||
| And that's all Zelensky was telling them was the truth. | ||
| And so if everyone has such a problem with the truth, then maybe they shouldn't be in a position where they wouldn't have to hear it or handle it. | ||
| Because really, he was only telling them and even showing pictures of what's happened to his own people. | ||
| They bombed a children's hospital, a cancer hospital. | ||
| And Vladimir Putin is a murderer. | ||
| And anyone that appeases him or thinks that they're going to get him to change his mind, even all the Rubio and all those people, they know better. | ||
| They're hypocrites or something. | ||
| I can't figure it out. | ||
| But anyway, I hope they ask for forgiveness and maybe start looking at things a little clearly through the truth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| That was Brad in Ohio. | ||
| Other members responding to yesterday's meeting include House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York. | ||
| He was on CNN yesterday. | ||
| Here's what he had to say: Do you believe, Leader Jeffries, that the relationship between the Trump administration and President Zelensky can be salvaged? | ||
| Has to be salvaged for the good of the free world if America is going to continue to play that role. | ||
| And again, our leadership of the free world in the aftermath of World War II to create a rules-based society all across the globe is in America's national security interest. | ||
| It's designed to keep our people safe and secure and free of the type of global conflict that cost so many lives, including American lives, during World War I and World War II. | ||
| And so it certainly is the case that we'll need to see some mature leadership from the Trump administration. | ||
| You think there will be some mature leadership from the Trump administration? | ||
| Congressional Democrats in both the House and the Senate will urge that this breach be repaired and that we stand by the Ukrainian people for the good of the American people, for the good of our national security, for the good of the free world, and our continued leadership in that regard. | ||
| We should not be bending the knee to Vladimir Putin and Russia. | ||
| Putin is a sworn enemy of the United States of America. | ||
| It's not in our national security interest to be supportive of him. | ||
| It's in our national security interest to support the Ukrainian people and our allies in Western Europe and throughout the free world. | ||
| Other members responding include this from Senator Bernie Moreno. | ||
| He says, finally, we have a president who will speak the truth and stand up against Washington's endless wars. | ||
| American taxpayers have been funding this war, and it's time to stop the killing and stop risking World War III. | ||
| And this from Representative Mark Takano. | ||
| He says, watching Trump advance service Putin's mouthpieces in the Oval Office was one of the most shameful moments in American diplomacy. | ||
| Every Republican must publicly condemn it, every single one. | ||
| Just about 20 minutes left. | ||
| We'll go back to your calls. | ||
| Let's hear from Cynthia, Detroit, Michigan, Lineford Democrats. | ||
| Hi, Cynthia. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, family. | |
| I'm going to give you a good example. | ||
| I'm going to use families in reference. | ||
| The Republicans are Ukraine, the Democrats are Russia, and the independents are on their own. | ||
| And I would like to know when someone attacks your family, you just protect it, right? | ||
| So you don't have enough strength to protect your family. | ||
| So you get and ask for the USA help. | ||
| You do. | ||
| Yes, I believe Ukraine should pay us back the money we spent. | ||
| We pay them with interest. | ||
| And if we need more help, we pay them the same way with interest. | ||
| What is your president trying to rip this country off of? | ||
| And that would be a solution to solve the problem. | ||
| And what Trump did to this man yesterday was not right. | ||
| And I have one more something to say. | ||
| Everyone go and read what the Republicans pass. | ||
| They're going to strip us out of Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, and everything else. | ||
| Don't listen to what your people are saying. | ||
| My husband says, read, read, read, read for yourself, and you will see, as Republicans, Democrats, and independents as what Congress passed last week. | ||
| Got a good point. | ||
| Cynthia, we'll go to Richard in Tulsa, Oklahoma, line four Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Richard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, how are you? | |
| I'd just like to say people need to look at the Budapest Agreement that was signed by President Clinton, Prime Minister John Majors of Great Britain, the president of Ukraine at the time, I think his name was something like Luca, and Putin, where they agreed, | ||
| Ukraine agreed to give up their nuclear weapons if the United States and Great Britain would guarantee their sovereignty. | ||
| We did. | ||
| We signed the agreement saying that Russia wouldn't be able to invade, and of course they did in 2014. | ||
| In 2014, we should have responded at that time. | ||
| We did not. | ||
| That just told Putin that the United States is not going to follow up on our mutual defense treaty and that they can come back again. | ||
| So he did. | ||
| And now he's taken a big chunk of more of Ukraine, including their strategic mineral areas. | ||
| It is unrealistic to ask the president of Ukraine, Zelensky, to say, yes, sign away your rare minerals to us, and we'll get back with you later about how much of your country you get to keep and how much the Russians get to keep, and we'll have a ceasefire. | ||
| No, if that was the United States and China invaded the West Coast and took part of our country, we would not be willing to say, well, let's just have a ceasefire and you guys keep the land that you've got, including our strategic minerals, and we'll worry later about how we stop the war. | ||
| We would never do that. | ||
| We have to allow other countries the same leeway we claim for ourselves, which is first we get the bad guys out of our country and we get them stopped and with an agreement that they can't come back in unless our mutual defense treaty partners come to our aid. | ||
| They lost their nuclear weapons because of us. | ||
| Got your point, Richard. | ||
| This headline in the Wall Street Journal, Today, Future of Ukraine Peace Deal is in doubt. | ||
| That's following this meeting. | ||
| It says, for Zelensky, the blowup ruined a critical opportunity to secure stronger backing for Ukraine's long-term defense. | ||
| For Trump, it was a setback to his goals of forging a peace deal between Kyiv and Moscow. | ||
| Both leaders have a stake in salvaging their relationship or at least papering over their differences. | ||
| Ukraine wants a deal that returns much of the country's seized territory and removes Russian troops from the battlefield. | ||
| Zelensky also wants security guarantees that deter Russia from launching a renewed attack, which even he says would be most efficient if they came from the U.S. Trump needs Kyiv to agree to stop fighting as part of a peace agreement, although he also said he would meet soon with Russian President Vladimir Putin. | ||
| Trump has insisted for weeks that Putin is genuinely interested in peace, alarming Ukraine and transatlantic partners who fear the White House was preparing to negotiate a peace deal closer to Moscow's terms than their own. | ||
| The display of disunity between Trump and Zelensky, even before the planned peace talks are underway, risked embolding Putin, who has voiced support for halting the fighting, but on unacceptable terms for Ukraine and its allies. | ||
| The article goes on to say Trump didn't rule out another meeting with Zelensky, but didn't back off his sharp criticism of the Ukrainian leader. | ||
| So Zelensky wanted to return to the White House on Friday, but was rebuffed. | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Marianne in Maryland, line for independence. | ||
| Hi, Mary Ann. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| Hello? | ||
| Go ahead, Marianne. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, hi, thank you for taking my call. | |
| I'm incredulous at what my eyes saw yesterday at the body language exhibited. | ||
| I had the volume muted and was just watching. | ||
| And oh my gosh, the body language that was exhibited, the staggering amount of finger-pointing, it was like it was aggressive. | ||
| It was invading his personal space. | ||
| It was a violation and putting his hand on him. | ||
| That's what it appeared like to me. | ||
| An open palm, like almost like pushing him back. | ||
| That's all I have to say. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| This is Mary Ann in Maryland. | ||
| We'll go to Gary, Charleston, West Virginia, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Gary. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, and thanks for taking my call. | |
| And I want to say the president is right on most part. | ||
| And same time, we need to get Putin off out of Ukraine. | ||
| Look at him, say, pull your troops out, and then we're going to look at Ukraine and say, let's do a ceasefire. | ||
| You got your country back. | ||
| We will support your country. | ||
| But economically speaking, we need some money to reimburse us because if we don't get our money back, it's like everybody is America's piggy bank. | ||
| We cannot continue supporting economically. | ||
| Look at our economy. | ||
| We cannot economically support the world. | ||
| We need to get peace and look at Russia and say, back off, or we just need to go over there and do our thing. | ||
| It's one of the two. | ||
| Gary, what do you mean, do our thing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
We mean go to war with Russia. | |
| I'll say it straight up. | ||
| If we're going to support Ukraine, let's go over there. | ||
| Let's take over Russia. | ||
| Let's take over Ukraine. | ||
| And him, that'll end it all. | ||
| That was Gary in West Virginia. | ||
| Let's hear from Joe in North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just wanted to say wherever you are on the political spectrum, Russia is a significant threat to our security. | ||
| He's not anyone's buddy. | ||
| Friends don't have nuclear missiles pointed at each other's cities. | ||
| And as a supporting Ukraine, I believe, significantly deteriorates Russia's ability to carry on a war. | ||
| There's nothing to say that we shouldn't have economic relations with Russia. | ||
| That strengthens everybody, but whoever is in charge of Russia needs to know that their aggressiveness is not going to be we just cannot have that in the world. | ||
| It threatens Europe and the United States and our way of life. | ||
| So I'm just saying that if they were friends, they would act like him, and I don't see them acting like friends. | ||
| That's what I had to say. | ||
| That was Joe in South Carolina. | ||
| Yesterday's meeting, it was Vice President JD Vance, who was also there. | ||
| He, during the meeting, asked the Ukrainian leader if he'd be open to diplomacy and said he should be more thankful for American support. | ||
| Here is a clip of that. | ||
| For four years in the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. | ||
| The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. | ||
| We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending that the President of the United States' words mattered more than the President of the United States' actions. | ||
| What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. | ||
| That's what President Trump is doing. | ||
| Can I ask you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Yeah? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea. | ||
| So he occupied it on 2014. | ||
| So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about Jose Biden, but those times was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump, and God bless, now President Trump will stop him. | ||
| But during 2014, nobody stopped him. | ||
| He just occupied and took. | ||
| He killed people. | ||
| You know what the contact was. | ||
|
unidentified
|
2015. | |
| 2014. | ||
| 2014 and 2014. | ||
| 2014. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So Joe's not here. | |
| Yeah, but yes, but during 2014 till 2022, was the situation the same? | ||
| People have been dying on the contact line. | ||
| Nobody stopped him. | ||
| You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, multilateral conversation. | ||
| And we signed with him, me, like a new president. | ||
| In 2019, I signed with him the deal. | ||
| I signed with him, Macron, and Merkel. | ||
| We signed ceasefire. | ||
| Ceasefire, all of them told me that he will never go. | ||
| We signed him with gas contract, gas contract. | ||
| Yes, but after that, he broke the ceasefire. | ||
| He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. | ||
| We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. | ||
| What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. | ||
| Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. | ||
| Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. | ||
| You should be thanking the president for having to bring it into this country. | ||
| I have been told that the story is what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. | ||
| Do you disagree that you've had problems? | ||
| Like bringing people in your military have problems. | ||
| And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to try to prevent the destruction of your country? | ||
| Just about five minutes left. | ||
| We'll go to Yuri in Laurel, Maryland, Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Yuri. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| I appreciate for giving me this opportunity. | ||
| We have to know the history before in the Cold War, Cold War time, the Russians and the Americans understand that Russians want to change their system to capitalism. | ||
| And they allow every country to be part of whatever they want. | ||
| So they allow the East Germany and the West German to unify and allow Czechoslovakia or Alsa to be an independent country. | ||
| But the West are pushing toward Russia, the NATO. | ||
| The Warsaw Pact is already dead. | ||
| There is no alternative. | ||
| So the West and Bill Clinton and all that, they are pushing Poland or this to be part of NATO. | ||
| And the Russians told them, we have agreed not to push NATO toward us. | ||
| We want peace, but we want to live together. | ||
| So the West pushing, pushing, and now they want to push Ukraine to be part of the NATO. | ||
| And the Russians said this is not right. | ||
| We don't want to see this. | ||
| Look at in the Kennedy time when the Soviets want to establish in Cuba a military base. | ||
| What did Kennedy said? | ||
| You, if you come, we'll start the Sub-World War. | ||
| And the Russians, they push back and peace up. | ||
| So why the Western countries' establishment want to push toward Russia into war? | ||
| The Ukraine war started because they wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO. | ||
| And the Russians said no. | ||
| It is in our not interest. | ||
| It is not our peace. | ||
| So the war started. | ||
| Got your point, Yuri. | ||
| We'll go to Cindy in Pennsylvania line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Cindy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Hi. | ||
| How are you? | ||
| I'm calling to say that I think President Trump did an awesome job yesterday. | ||
| That man was not thankful. | ||
| He had billions of dollars, of course. | ||
| I'm a taxpayer. | ||
| I want that money back. | ||
| It's not fair. | ||
| And I know people's getting killed and stuff, but President Trump has to be really strong, just like John F. Kennedy was during the Cuban crisis. | ||
| You have to be tough. | ||
| You can't be a limp. | ||
| And he isn't. | ||
| And I know he wants peace, but he has to. | ||
| Everything was all settled. | ||
| But this guy's backing out. | ||
| He's a little dictator. | ||
| And I really believe that. | ||
| And he doesn't really care that much for his people. | ||
| I think he would sign the agreement and start the process. | ||
| Because we need money for our country. | ||
| Our country's falling apart right now. | ||
| I'm poor. | ||
| I'm not rich. | ||
| And I paid all the tax dollars in. | ||
| And Biden gave billions away, billions of our money without our consent. | ||
| I don't think that's right. | ||
| And I really appreciate what President Trump is doing. | ||
| And God bless America right now. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Cindy in Pennsylvania and our last call in this portion of the program. | ||
| Teresa in Roanoke, Virginia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Teresa. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Yes, thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I felt like this was a disgraceful display. | ||
| President Zielinski was trying to speak for his people when they would let him speak. | ||
| Trump speaks for himself. | ||
| And then he concludes this is good TV. | ||
| These are Ukrainians' lies. | ||
| This man's country is destroyed. | ||
| Trump calls Mark Arubio Little Marco. | ||
| And now to hear Arubio say Trump in diplomacy, I saw nothing diplomatic. | ||
| The Republicans' response is, Trump showed strength when it comes to this. | ||
| No, there is no strength here. | ||
| He's a bully. | ||
| There's a short distance between strength and ignorance. | ||
| And then JD Vance speaks up. | ||
| Oh, well, by the way, he is in Washington. | ||
| He chimed in just to get a moment of Trump's attention. | ||
| I was surprised Musk wasn't there. | ||
| What are our allies? | ||
| What are they thinking? | ||
| Look at what they just witnessed. | ||
| And then in conclusion, a minor point I'm sure to some Republicans, when that reporter asked President Zielinski, who had just been berated, he was set up and we all know it. | ||
| When that man asked President Zelensky if he owned a suit, you can put a bully in a suit, but they're still a bully. | ||
| This was just disgraceful. | ||
| This was just a moment for the Republicans and TV. | ||
| That's all this was. | ||
| But we know Putin has no intentions of a ceasefire here. | ||
| He won't honor it. | ||
| We know that. | ||
| And I'm just surprised that the Republicans don't. | ||
| I'm just very embarrassed by this. | ||
| And we need a president who's going to act like a president. | ||
| And we need leaders who are going to speak up against this kind of, this isn't diplomacy. | ||
| That was Teresa in Virginia in our last call for this portion of the program. | ||
| But next on Washington Journal, we are going to continue our discussion of yesterday's Oval Office meeting between Presidents Trump and Zelensky with Max Bergman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. | ||
| And later on the program, KFF Vice President Robin Rudowitz will join us to discuss the state of Medicaid and the impact of potential cuts to the program as House Republicans seek to offset the costs of their budget plan. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
American History TV, exploring the people and events that tell the American story. | |
| This weekend, on the Civil War, historian Kelly Hancock talks about the lives of Mary Todd Lincoln and Verena Davis, the wives of the Civil War leaders. | ||
| A visit to the College Park Aviation Museum in Maryland with collections curator Luke Perez to explore the history of the world's oldest continually operating airfield and artifacts within its museum. | ||
| Watch American History TV series First 100 Days as we look at the start of presidential terms. | ||
| This week, we focus on the early months of President Lyndon Johnson's term in 1963 following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. | ||
| Johnson addressed Congress shortly after Kennedy's death and called on members to pass civil rights legislation. | ||
| On Lectures in History, University of Southern California sociology professor Brittany Friedman on the formation and evolution of American prison gangs in the 20th and 21st centuries. | ||
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| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us now to discuss yesterday's Oval Office meeting between Presidents Trump and Zelensky is Max Bergman. | ||
| He is with the Center for Strategic and International Studies. | ||
| He's the Europe, Russia, and Eurasia Program Director there. | ||
| Max, thank you so much for joining us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for having me. | ||
| We will jump right in and I'll start by asking you: if you had to judge by yesterday's event, by yesterday's meeting, to what degree is the Trump administration standing by Ukraine? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I think it's pretty clear that they're not. | |
| And I think President Trump made that clear where he said that they weren't on any one side. | ||
| The United States is on the world side. | ||
| And really the big shift that's happened here is the United States has moved from being a steadfast ally and partner of Ukraine to being essentially a neutral arbiter. | ||
| We've gone from having the Ukraine jersey on to putting on the referee's jersey, and if not, taking more of the side of Russia and seeing an opportunity to potentially have a better relationship with Russia. | ||
| So the United States is not pretending, I think, to be neutral or to pretending to be Ukraine's partner in this conflict. | ||
| And that was abundantly clear yesterday and the president said it directly. | ||
| And President Zelensky was here in Washington. | ||
| He was expected to not only have a press conference, but also sign or at least talk more about a mineral deal. | ||
| And neither of those happened. | ||
| Instead, it was this very heated conversation between those two and Vice President Vance. | ||
| What do you think fueled the sharp comments? | ||
| What made it take that turn? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, a lot of people are trying to analyze this. | |
| I just think that ultimately, the United States, the Trump administration, President Trump, JD Vance, do not want to be supporting Ukraine anymore. | ||
| They sat down with the Russians in Saudi Arabia and I think realized that there is no quick negotiated fix to this conflict and that they have leverage over Ukraine, but have almost no leverage over Russia, except if they were willing to put more money in behind Ukraine. | ||
| And so I think they saw the writing on the wall that negotiations aren't really going anywhere. | ||
| And with that, they wanted Ukraine to agree to something it wouldn't agree to. | ||
| And I think what you saw is the United States being ready to just essentially walk away from these talks and a degree of hostility towards Zelensky that I think President Trump has had for a while. | ||
| JD Vance brought up Zelensky's visit to Pennsylvania ammunition factory in September when he came to the United States and viewing that as a partisan activity. | ||
| So, there was a lot of acts, there were some axes to grind. | ||
| And normally, in a diplomatic meeting, you don't grind those axes publicly. | ||
| And I think when JD Vance saw and the president saw that Zelensky was pushing back, not even that strongly, but a little bit, I think they then saw, didn't hesitate in order to kind of start grinding those axes that they had with Zelensky. | ||
| It's a little bit like two, you know, two colleagues that don't really like each other, that then are sitting at the conference room table. | ||
| And then instead of it just sort of being a passive-aggressive conversation, gets aggressive. | ||
| And that's not what Zelensky wanted. | ||
| The minerals agreement that you mentioned was not something the Ukrainians were desperate to sign. | ||
| The United States had pushed that agreement in a direction that they didn't want. | ||
| Frankly, Ukraine proposed the idea hoping that it would entice the United States to provide more military aid to Ukraine. | ||
| And then when that became not in the cards, they just decided to sign it. | ||
| But this is not something Ukraine really wanted. | ||
| It's also very hypothetical. | ||
| There would have to be peace in Ukraine in order for any of these minerals to be extracted. | ||
| So I don't think either side was that upset by not signing this agreement. | ||
| And the agreement was sort of intended, I think, for the Ukrainians' part to signal United States support for them. | ||
| So after a meeting like that, there's no real point in signing such an agreement. | ||
| Max, I want to share an opinion piece that was in today's Wall Street Journal is by Daniel Balsin. | ||
| He is the director of public engagement at RASM for Ukraine. | ||
| The headline, most Trump supporters also back Ukraine. | ||
| It's talking about some recent polling that they did. | ||
| Said majority said that agreed Russia is the aggressor at 69%, would support continued weapons assistance under certain circumstances, that's 60%, and say that they are more likely to support aid for Ukraine when told Russia has kidnapped more than 19,000 Ukrainian children. | ||
| That was 71%. | ||
| What is the potential impact of President Trump's actions yesterday among when it comes to Republicans who do support Ukraine? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I think it won't be positive for their support for President Trump, but we shall see. | |
| Foreign policy politically tends to not be a top-tier issue. | ||
| I think the Ukraine-Russia war broke through in 2022 because it was so ghastly. | ||
| A country in the middle of the night being invaded, children being woken up from their beds and parents fleeing, families being separated as mothers and children fled across the border into the European Union, while the men stayed back and fought, and now many thousands have died. | ||
| This is an atrocious conflict. | ||
| Really, not since World War II in Europe have we seen anything on this scale of destruction. | ||
| So I think many Americans see that, many Republicans, many Democrats. | ||
| It was incredibly bipartisan in Congress and in support of Ukraine. | ||
| And we saw that Republicans in Congress were incredibly critical of the Biden administration for what they described as weakness for delaying certain delivery of weapon systems. | ||
| But then with Trump sort of re-emerging onto the political scene in late 2023 and this time last year, the Republicans have become more divided in their support for Ukraine. | ||
| And indeed, this time last year, the Republican Congress was not passing a Ukraine military supplemental support package. | ||
| That eventually passed. | ||
| But I think what we'll see is that we're a very partisan country. | ||
| I think some Republicans will view what happened yesterday as a real stain on Americans' global leadership and a sort of a betrayal of a country that we were backing. | ||
| And others will see it as, and I think you had some callers say this, that the United States has been doing too much in the world and that it's sort of time for us to stop spending a lot of money. | ||
| I think there's some threads of importance to both of those comments. | ||
| But when I look at this politically, I think what we're ultimately seeing, though, is the United States really pivoting to a more isolationist approach to the world. | ||
| Maybe not intentionally, but when I look at European reaction, the reaction of European leaders, when you look at the headlines of European papers, there is a deep sense of betrayal and that Europe is on its own. | ||
| So I think what happened yesterday in the Oval Office actually has a much broader impact on U.S. foreign policy. | ||
| It's not just about the few billions that we're providing to Ukraine, but also about how our other allies and partners around the world see us. | ||
| And frankly, it makes them very on edge and they don't see us as a reliable partner. | ||
| And in Trump's perspective, that may be a good thing because maybe we can extract more. | ||
| But I think it also means that our allies and partners will begin to hedge, look to other friends or other potential deals that they can make, perhaps with China, perhaps with some other U.S. adversaries, that we may not like as much. | ||
| So I think we're headed in a very new and complicated direction globally. | ||
| Our guest for the next 35 minutes or so is Max Bergman, Europe, Russia, and Eurasia Program Director for the Center for Strategic and International Studies. | ||
| If you have a question or comment for him, you can start calling in now. | ||
| The lines for this segment are broken down by Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| Max, I wanted to get your reaction to what President Zelensky tweeted yesterday after the meeting. | ||
| He said, thank you, America. | ||
| Thank you for your support. | ||
| Thank you for this visit. | ||
| Thank you, POTIS, Congress, and the American people. | ||
| Ukraine needs just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that. | ||
| President Zelensky saying, talking about efforts to come to a peace deal, how have they done so far in that regard? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I think first, just, you know, JD Vance, the vice president, accused Zelensky of not being thankful. | |
| And you could argue he could have been more thankful to the U.S. in his Oval Office meeting. | ||
| But let's be clear, he has come to the United States a lot. | ||
| He spoke to a joint session of Congress, I believe in December 2022, where the entire message was thank you to the United States. | ||
| And I think where Zelensky was deeply concerned about the direction of the Trump administration was this shift from the United States being a firm supporter of Ukraine, a partner for Ukraine, preserving Ukrainian democracy, providing really vital military assistance to Ukraine, to then positioning itself as a negotiator, | ||
| as a neutral arbiter in the conflict with Russia, but then also meeting with the Russians, but not with the Ukrainians. | ||
| That if you remember that meeting in Saudi Arabia, it was the U.S. and Russia across the table with each other, and Ukraine wasn't there. | ||
| And normally, when the United States engages in sort of diplomatic talks directly with an adversary, whether it's the Iranians, whether it's the Russians, which the Obama administration did as well, and sort of over the heads of our European partners, we then seek to reassure them. | ||
| We then seek to go back to our allies and partners and say, don't worry, we have your back. | ||
| We're looking out for your best interests. | ||
| That has not been the approach of the Trump administration. | ||
| So I think what Zelensky was after in this White House meeting was a degree of reassurance that the United States wasn't going to proverbially stab them in the back. | ||
| And I think what he got was in some ways the opposite, was the United States directly telling him sort of a stab in the front that, no, we're not going to back you and support you. | ||
| So this meeting was a disaster for President Zelensky. | ||
| That is not what he was after. | ||
| And I think what you see with those tweets and other expressions of gratitude is that, you know, he didn't mean to not say thank you. | ||
| He has said thank you in the past. | ||
| And in some ways, he's trying to a bit of damage control or damage mitigation, because even if the United States, if the Trump administration does not go back to Congress and ask for more military funding for Ukraine, there's a lot of other things that the United States could do to really undermine Ukraine's war effort. | ||
| And I think there's a degree of concern right now in Kyiv that the United States won't simply be neutral in this conflict. | ||
| And what I mean by that is the United States will stop providing aid to Ukraine, but the aid that has sort of been obligated, where the contracts have been written, that will continue to flow. | ||
| But that what the United States will begin to do is to become an adversary of Ukraine. | ||
| Whether we'll sanction the Ukrainians, whether we'll remove sanctions against Russia, I think is of deep concern to Ukraine because we could make it a lot easier for Russia to fight this war. | ||
| And I think what Ukraine wants at the very least is if the United States isn't going to support it, that it doesn't take actions to undermine Ukraine's war effort and to enhance Russia's. | ||
| So I think President Zelensky is in some ways trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. | ||
| But I think for Zelensky, he never saw negotiations going very far. | ||
| Ukraine engaged in negotiations with Russia for years prior to Russia's invasion. | ||
| They agreed to a settlement in the so-called Minsk process in December 2019, only for Russia to do a full-scale invasion. | ||
| I think what they see is Russia wanting to end Ukrainian democracy, to subjugate Ukraine, and that those broader goals haven't changed. | ||
| And a temporary ceasefire that would allow Russia to continuously rearm while Western aid would probably dissipate for Ukraine was a situation where we're only setting up this conflict for a round. | ||
| The first round being Russia's initial invasion and seizure of Crimea in the eastern parts of Ukraine in 2014, round two being this latest war from 2022 to now. | ||
| And then you could have a ceasefire for a few years, but if Ukraine is outside of the European Union, outside of NATO, if it's not able to receive the same levels of Western support, its ability to build its armed forces might be curtailed. | ||
| While Russia really has a war machine going right now with its defense industrial base that is really aided by China. | ||
| And Ukraine doesn't like those odds of freezing the conflict. | ||
| And then in a few more years, Russia comes back. | ||
| And I think that leads to a lot of insecurity in Ukraine. | ||
| And I think that was one of the major problems that Zelensky had with the Trump administration, wanting a quick ceasefire. | ||
| And Ukraine does not see a quick ceasefire as being in its interest. | ||
| We have callers waiting to talk with you. | ||
| We will start with Donald in Hillsboro, Ohio, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Donald. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| And thank you for taking my call this morning. | ||
| What I would like to say is he came to the United States with a good heart and wanted something fair for his people. | ||
| And your Trump administration, you know, let this man down. | ||
| And what I believe is the European Union should go ahead and get together, put up a defensive line, and stop the Russians from taking over the Ukraine. | ||
| And also, the only thing that the Russians got that can stop them, because I feel that they're, you know, really beat now, is nuclear weapons. | ||
| And I'm tired of living under somebody's boot heel that's, you know, keeping the people down and taking the freedom from this country and other countries. | ||
| And I thank you for listening to me and Wake Up America. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Well, thank you for that comment, Donald. | ||
| And I think what you're seeing in Europe is, well, we're waiting to see what will happen in Europe. | ||
| I think the events, not just yesterday, I think yesterday was confirmation for many Europeans of what they saw after the Munich Security Conference. | ||
| It's this big grand jamboree of security officials where JD Vance spoke at. | ||
| And also the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, when he went to Europe, said that the United States was going to reduce its forces in Europe. | ||
| And, you know, there's two ways to sort of look at this. | ||
| On the one hand, I think the American perspective on Europe is that, you know, these are free riders. | ||
| Europeans haven't gotten their act together. | ||
| They're not spending that much on defense. | ||
| And we're sort of tired of taking care of European security. | ||
| And I think that's not just a Trump administration perspective. | ||
| In some ways, that's very bipartisan. | ||
| But the other way to look at it, and this is how Europeans look at it, is, look, the United States has actually told Europe not to get its act together on defense, that the European Union does not do defense because the United States, in large part, has told it not to for the last 35 years. | ||
| The European Union was created in 1993. | ||
| There was a big conversation about the EU creating its own military in the 1990s. | ||
| There's been some movement in that direction, but the Clinton administration ultimately told the Europeans not to. | ||
| And that has been bipartisan American foreign policy for a very long time. | ||
| What we have wanted is for everything to go through NATO. | ||
| And why we have wanted that is because we are central to NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, in that we essentially do everything at NATO. | ||
| Europe is dependent on us. | ||
| While we want the Europeans to spend more, to spend more than 2% on defense, ultimately, we want the European militaries to dock into the U.S. | ||
| And this has been the grand bargain, where Europe is dependent on the U.S. for its security. | ||
| And as such, the Europeans follow us around in our wars. | ||
| In Afghanistan, NATO was there. | ||
| In Iraq, there was division within the Europeans. | ||
| But many European countries were in Iraq fighting alongside of us. | ||
| That was not because they were very enthusiastic about invading Iraq. | ||
| It was because they felt this degree of loyalty to the United States. | ||
| And when we go to Europe now and say, look, we are concerned about European technology getting to China and helping the Chinese military, we turn the screws on the Europeans and the Europeans follow through to immense economic detriment to many of European companies. | ||
| They have followed through, followed us on many of our sanctions and export controls. | ||
| So and then we have this ready-built coalition that whenever we want to do something in the world, the Europeans are there with us. | ||
| And we have more influence in Europe than any other region in the world. | ||
| So that has been the grand bargain where Europe remains dependent on us for security, but the Europeans basically follow us around and tend to do what we want when we have a real priority. | ||
| Of course, there's some differences on economic and trade issues, but those tend to be rather small. | ||
| And so what we're seeing now is whether Europe will go in a new direction, whether the European Union will begin to have more of what is described as a defense identity. | ||
| I wrote a recent piece at CSIS saying, look, if you're going to create an EU army, which has been talked about since the 1950s, and in fact, it was the Eisenhower administration that was a huge supporter of creating a pan-European army. | ||
| Here are some of the ways that you would go about it. | ||
| You wouldn't get rid of the French military, the Polish military, the German military, but maybe you'd create an additional EU military. | ||
| So these are some of the conversations that the Europeans are having. | ||
| But the one last point I just make is that it is true, and this is where I think I give the Trump administration credit, that the Europeans can do more. | ||
| They have been doing more than us in support of Ukraine, but the EU is an economic superpower. | ||
| Their economy is the same size as the United States and China. | ||
| Europe has the capacity to, I think, step up and step in should the United States step away from Ukraine. | ||
| Now, the issue is they can't do it instantly. | ||
| They have to ramp up their industrial production. | ||
| They have to really have a real change in direction. | ||
| So I hope if we're pulling back from Ukraine, we do it rather slowly. | ||
| But the Europeans can do more. | ||
| And I think what we're waiting is to see is what comes of all these meetings and other things that are happening in Brussels. | ||
| Do they allocate much more funding from the EU level? | ||
| So there's a lot at play in Europe. | ||
| And there's a lot of, I would describe it maybe as do something energy right now in the European Union. | ||
| Our guest, Max Bergman, just mentioned one of his recent pieces that he has written for CSIS. | ||
| If you would like to find those or look at more of his work, you can find it at csis.org. | ||
| Let's hear from John in Grove City, Ohio, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So if we're just going to focus on this White House meeting, I think the biggest problem has been is that the only thing that previous callers and people in the media or Democrats and perhaps your guests, they only saw the five or 10 minutes of the video when it went off the rails. | |
| And the 30 to 40 minutes before that was Zelensky pontificating and throwing pictures in Trump's face. | ||
| And I'm not a big Trump fan, but the statements that it was an ambush by JD Vance and by Trump, if you watch the entirety of the video, that's not what happened. | ||
| So I don't know how much of the video that your guest saw. | ||
| Maybe he saw the whole thing. | ||
| But if he didn't, it's a disservice to everyone. | ||
| And thank God for C-SPAN for showing that video last night through the middle of the night because I actually saw what happened because it doesn't look like Trump and Vance were bullies. | ||
| It looks like they were ambushed by Zelensky. | ||
| So that's my statement. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Well, no, thanks for that, John. | ||
| And I think you're right that the entire meeting, you know, this was the last, everyone's looking at the last 10 minutes of the meeting. | ||
| This was the last question. | ||
| And I think what you saw was the tension sort of building. | ||
| And Zelensky was trying to make a case for himself, a case for Ukraine throughout the entire meeting. | ||
| And, you know, look, all senior level politicians have great belief in their persuasive capabilities. | ||
| And I think what Zelensky was essentially trying to do in the first part of the meeting was to show President Trump and Vice President Vance directly what was happening in Ukraine and to demonstrate that Ukraine was the victim of this conflict and needed U.S. support. | ||
| And I think that was grading on Vice President Vance and the president. | ||
| And as I think said earlier, that this is sort of two colleagues, effectively, that don't like each other, that probably talk about each other behind each other's backs in the hallways with their other colleagues. | ||
| And then in the meeting, there's sort of maybe a lot of, it's a very passive-aggressive meeting that eventually explodes. | ||
| And what people are going to focus on is the explosion. | ||
| I think what I would say is I don't quite understand why all of that was being made public. | ||
| You know, most of these Oval Office sessions where the press comes in are very quick, right? | ||
| They are, you know, there's one or two questions to, you know, British prime minister, are you enjoying being here? | ||
| And in some cases, I very much appreciate President Trump and the transparency and keeping it open to the public. | ||
| But I think in this case, it was sort of in some ways too transparent. | ||
| It would have been better, I think, for that, for the U.S.-Ukraine relationship, for Ukraine in particular, if that meeting was more behind closed doors. | ||
| But I think also there was an intentionality to it. | ||
| I don't want to call it a trap that JD Vance laid or anyone laid. | ||
| I don't think they went into it with that intention. | ||
| But I also think that they also were not that concerned about creating a real rift in the relationship. | ||
| Normally, diplomacy is oftentimes about sitting on your hands, not saying the thing that you were thinking. | ||
| I've been in many diplomatic meetings at my time in the State Department where, man, I wanted to give it to the other person, maybe, but that wasn't going to be the right diplomatic thing to do at that moment. | ||
| So I think what we saw was a very undiplomatic meeting. | ||
| And you can really accuse both sides of doing that. | ||
| And I think Zelensky got this wrong. | ||
| And then the Trump administration, President Trump and JD Vance, were willing to create an open rift in the relationship in public. | ||
| And so I think you're right. | ||
| Viewers should go back and watch the entire meeting. | ||
| Unfortunately, people don't have that much time, don't have as much time as perhaps you and I. | ||
| But the last 10 minutes are what the news media is going to show because it's frankly what history is going to show. | ||
| That's what history is going to focus on. | ||
| And that last 10 minutes was historic. | ||
| I think it will be the moment that historians look at where there was a real shift, not just in U.S. support for Ukraine, but also perhaps in the direction of the transatlantic alliance. | ||
| And wanted to let our audience know that if you have not seen the entire video and you'd like to, you can find it on our website, cspan.org. | ||
| It's just under 50 minutes, as Max pointed out. | ||
| Maybe you don't have the time to dedicate, but the event program is broken down. | ||
| If you look at the stars, it does highlight key points during that meeting if you want to look at it that way as well. | ||
| And Max, I wanted to ask you about the relationship, not only between what this means for the relationship between U.S. and Ukraine, but what it could mean for U.S.-Russia relations. | ||
| It was earlier this week that President Putin praised Trump for reopening and trying to repair relationships with the Kremlin. | ||
| What do you think President Putin and Russian leadership, how do you think they're viewing yesterday's meeting? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I think they're fairly ecstatic. | |
| You know, I think one of their goals, and I've been quite cynical about the potential, about the prospect for peace negotiations resulting in a lasting peace, because I haven't seen any signals or signs that Vladimir Putin has shifted from his penultimate goal of subjugating Ukraine, of ending Ukrainian democracy, and bringing Ukraine back into Russia's orbit and Russia's control. | ||
| I like to sort of note that Vladimir Putin is in sort of his late stage, something that I'm going through and I think lots of older American men go through where they become obsessed with history. | ||
| And prior to the war, he wrote a whole treatise about how Ukraine was actually part of Russia. | ||
| And he has been the leader of Russia for 25 years. | ||
| And I think is really thinking about his place in history. | ||
| He wants, I think, to be called Vladimir the Great. | ||
| He wants to be perceived as this great Russian czar. | ||
| And I think in order for that to happen, he's got to win this war. | ||
| So I don't think he's really shifted in his grand ambitions. | ||
| And I think what he wanted to achieve in Saudi Arabia looks like he's achieved it, which is effectively to sideline the U.S. from this conflict, to have the U.S. pull back from its support from Ukraine, that the United States is Ukraine's most important and pivotal actor. | ||
| And if you can get the United States to turn off the taps to Ukraine, the sense is that Ukraine will grow rather thirsty. | ||
| That what we saw last year without aid to Ukraine, that the Ukrainian military began to really shrink, had to really begin rationing its ammunition and artillery. | ||
| And that gave Russia a real military advantage in the war. | ||
| So I think he'll be quite ecstatic because what he just saw was a real rupture. | ||
| And I will give Vladimir Putin real hope that he can win this war. | ||
| So I think what we saw yesterday is Putin is likely to double down and to continue to go forward. | ||
| What I would just say is I think there is a wrong analysis about where Ukraine is, though, in this conflict. | ||
| Ukraine right now is producing more than a million drones a year. | ||
| They have immense capacity to hold back the Russian military. | ||
| One of my colleagues at the Carnegie Corporation, Daramasico, described the Russian military right now as a car that's had its transmission blown. | ||
| So it can rev up the engine, it can maybe get to 20 miles an hour, but it can't do the kind of effective combat operations to be able to punch through Ukrainian lines to move forces very rapidly. | ||
| So this is a war of attrition, and the Ukrainians are on the defensive, and the advantage goes to those who are on the defensive. | ||
| So I expect what we'll see is Ukraine both doubling down on its fortifications and in its own drone production. | ||
| And I think what will give Vladimir Putin some concern is I think what he was hoping for was kind of a years-long negotiation that didn't really result in much, but then led everyone to be talking about what happens when there's peace, when I don't think there was going to be. | ||
| And the Europeans then don't really step up to fill the gaps left by the Americans. | ||
| But I think what we're going to see over the next few weeks is the Europeans doing a lot more, allocating a lot more money potentially to try to fill the gap left by the U.S. | ||
| They won't be able to do it fully, but I think he's going to be concerned about the counter-European reaction to what is being seen in Europe as an American betrayal. | ||
| And that will strengthen Ukraine's ability to continue on fighting. | ||
| Let's hear from Larry in Wilson, North Carolina, Line for Independence. | ||
| Hi, Larry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right, good morning. | |
| Yes, I want the guest's opinion on this. | ||
| you know, the statement I'm giving here, but I challenge Trump, first of all, and the Democratic leaders to invite Putin the same way that they did Zelensky on TV and ask him questions that the American people have for him and parade him like they did Zelensky. | ||
| I don't understand why Trump always meet with Putin in private. | ||
| The one time he did meet with him on TV, he embarrassed himself. | ||
| He agreed with Putin over his own intelligence agency. | ||
| So I see why he always secretly with Putin, but then he wants to come out here and downgrade and begrade Zelensky. | ||
| And you can see right through it. | ||
| Another thing is Trump, President Trump, is he always get other people like Musk and people to do his dirty work. | ||
| And he just sits back in the background. | ||
| That's just the way a mob boss does. | ||
| And that keeps his hands from getting dirty. | ||
| And it lets all the other people's hands get dirty. | ||
| And I wish the Democrats would really point these things out because he is so crafty. | ||
| He is so crafty at doing these things that it is just a shame. | ||
| And no one is calling him out. | ||
| Thank God for Ms. Harris. | ||
| She came out and told the truth, but the American people was just fools. | ||
| She was the only one, I think, that really came out and put Trump in his place. | ||
| And I don't see why the American people didn't respond. | ||
| God bless her. | ||
| Larry, let's get a response from Max. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, thanks for the question, Larry. | |
| I think this is you're pointing at something that a lot of our allies and partners around the world are asking themselves. | ||
| Because what they're feeling is a lot of heat from this administration, a lot of browbeating, a lot of criticism, you know, President Trump calling the European Union adversaries. | ||
| And it's all been quite shocking. | ||
| And then they see how the president and his team have been engaging with Russia and with America's adversaries. | ||
| And they're really confused because it looks like they're getting the lashings while the adversaries are getting praise. | ||
| And I think some of that you could put down to we have a lot more leverage over our European partners than we do Russia. | ||
| That there's, I think, you know, we don't really have much leverage over Russia. | ||
| We've sanctioned them quite considerably and quite comprehensively. | ||
| We've been supporting Ukraine militarily. | ||
| So I think there's a lot of confusion about why our allies and partners are being treated as adversaries while America's traditional adversaries are being treated more as potential partners. | ||
| I didn't respond to one of the questions, but what is in a U.S.-Russia agreement? | ||
| And I think this is also quite perplexing to some degree because economically, on the one hand, you could say, okay, Russia is a much bigger country than Ukraine. | ||
| There must be a lot there for the United States and Russia to cooperate on. | ||
| Well, Russia's major economic product is oil and gas, which the United States now has in abundance. | ||
| In some ways, Russia is one of our major economic competitors just in the fossil fuel sector. | ||
| But Russia has pivoted to its other major sector, which is defense production, where Russia is one of our main competitors globally when it comes to arms sales. | ||
| And while Russia is a relatively big market of 100 million people, or 100 million or more people, it's not that prosperous an economy. | ||
| Its economy is about the size of Italy. | ||
| And I think there's very little indication that American businesses are eager to get back into the Russian market because they would be very nervous that in five years, 10 years, that there would be another war between the United States or between Russia and another country, that their assets could be seized just like they have been over the last few years. | ||
| American businesses were in Russia. | ||
| And so I don't think Russia is a particularly promising investment destination for American companies. | ||
| So I think that there's a lot of confusion about what is the economic gain here. | ||
| Why is President Trump really seeking a deal with Russia when there's not much to gain? | ||
| And so then that leaves our allies very confused about why they're getting that treatment. | ||
| And I think, frankly, it's very hard for me to see President Trump giving Vladimir Putin the same treating Putin the way he's treated Zelensky because I think he sees Zelensky effectively as a subcontractor, not as an ally and partner. | ||
| And so I think it's, I think, a very different worldview in how the president sees Ukraine and Russia. | ||
| Javin in Columbus, Ohio, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Javin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for having me. | ||
| Go ahead, Javin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, you know, you did talk about Mr. Bergman discussed Putin and his kind of czar desire to be a big czar. | |
| You know, with that in mind and with Kiev being a really important cultural area for the Russian identity and Putin, it seems apparent to me that Putin will not cease to try to target Ukraine in the near future. | ||
| But my question to you is, if there is a ceasefire today with the current amount of aid from the U.S. now, who will a ceasefire benefit the most, Russia or Ukraine? | ||
| It's a really excellent question. | ||
| So I think one of the challenges for Ukraine, right, is that if there is a ceasefire, and let's make a distinction between a ceasefire where you're putting down the guns, or you're not shooting at each other, but you don't put down the guns in a peace agreement where you're putting down the guns and there's sort of confidence on both sides that both sides are going to stick to it. | ||
| And that would enable Ukraine, frankly, to turn toward Europe and Russia to turn toward itself or turn back to China. | ||
| And that would be more long-lasting. | ||
| A ceasefire, I think, could be in Ukraine's interest. | ||
| In fact, you could make an argument that Ukraine would need a ceasefire more than Russia because Russia is more on the front foot in this war than Ukraine. | ||
| And Ukraine does have manpower issues, as JD Vance has highlighted. | ||
| It's a society that is exhausted. | ||
| I was in Ukraine last April. | ||
| And, you know, the middle of the night, there's air raids going on because Russian missiles are flying. | ||
| And just think about it. | ||
| If you have kids and you're told to shelter in the bathroom in your apartment, much like you would during a tornado. | ||
| And that's happening just about every night. | ||
| So every night you're having to wake up your kids, move to the bathroom. | ||
| And a lot of kids and a lot of people in their 20s aren't doing it. | ||
| But if you're a parent, you're probably doing it. | ||
| And so parents are exhausted. | ||
| People are exhausted. | ||
| There's a real sense of wanting this war to end in Ukraine. | ||
| So I don't think we should say the Ukrainians are just bloodthirsty and wanting to keep fighting. | ||
| I think they would appreciate a ceasefire. | ||
| But, Gavin, you really highlight it that they need some assurances that they're not going to be left on their own. | ||
| And I think what they're concerned about, so what they're concerned about is two things. | ||
| One is that the Western aid, both from the U.S. and Europe, really starts to go down. | ||
| And so then what you would have is the Russian military rebuilding itself while Ukraine kind of is not able to. | ||
| And they're trying to get their economy going again. | ||
| But because it's a ceasefire, are Western businesses going to invest in Ukraine, get the economy going? | ||
| Some will, and some have, actually. | ||
| But there would still be a lot of concern that you, you know, let's say build one of these mines in Ukraine. | ||
| That's a fixed target. | ||
| The Russians have missiles that would target it. | ||
| Are you going to then pay for air defense to protect it? | ||
| So it's not a great investment destination if you're worried about Russia coming back in round three. | ||
| So what Ukraine is looking for, I think, is two things. | ||
| One, a continuation of military aid, a commitment, a long-term commitment to Ukraine's military so that it can rebuild its military. | ||
| This is what we have done with Israel. | ||
| We do not have security guarantees with Israel. | ||
| If Israel gets in a war, the United States military is not obligated to come to Israel's defense. | ||
| The U.S. is not obligated to. | ||
| But what we have done is provided Israel every year with $3.5 billion a year. | ||
| Israel has been our largest recipient of military aid, and that has built, helped build an incredibly strong Israeli military so that other countries in the regions do not want to pick a fight with Israel. | ||
| And so that's one path for Ukraine. | ||
| And the other path is this concept of security guarantees, which would effectively be the United States or NATO or other European countries saying that if Russia violates a ceasefire, they're not just picking a war with Ukraine. | ||
| They're picking a war with the United States of America, with Europe, with NATO. | ||
| And that would be a deterrent to Russia continuing provoking a round three. | ||
| Now, the problem with that is that what if Russia does provoke a round three? | ||
| Then you have a much bigger war. | ||
| The Trump administration has said we don't want to provide security guarantees. | ||
| And actually, there's a third thing here: the Europeans have been talking about putting peacekeepers on the ground, European forces, to sort of deter Russia from provoking a round three so that they would start firing. | ||
| You know, if they started a war, they would start killing French and British and other European forces. | ||
| Well, the Europeans want some guarantees that if that happens, that the United States has their back, that the United States essentially would come and defend them. | ||
| And that's not what the United States is willing to do under the Trump administration. | ||
| And I think would have really struggled to do that under the Biden administration as well. | ||
| So Ukraine is looking at a ceasefire and saying, well, we could really be left out to dry here while Russia strengthens, we'll stay, we'll struggle to match where they are. | ||
| And then in two years, three years, four years, five years, Russia will come at us again, but this time with a much better invasion plan and will be playing for keeps. | ||
| And so Ukraine is thinking about their long-term survival, not just, man, we're really tired in the middle of the night. | ||
| So you see the public not wanting a ceasefire that would be damaging for Ukraine's long-term prosperity. | ||
| They're willing to continue through the sleepless nights and the casualties that they're facing because they recognize that to not do that would endanger them perhaps in the long term. | ||
| Let's talk with Paul in Palm Harbor, Florida, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Paul. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hello. | ||
| I thought this was to be a mineral deal signing. | ||
| Zelensky wasn't going to sign the mineral deal, because that's what I kept hearing that this meeting was about. | ||
| Why did he come? | ||
| Why also, why is he trying to talk to the American people over Trump? | ||
| And another thing about protocol, when I saw a clip of when Trump saw Zelensky and he told him, oh, you're sure dressed up. | ||
| And then the Ukrainian ambassador hanging down her head in shame. | ||
| This guy, he's trying to, he's trying to, seems to me, trying to out Trump Trump. | ||
| He wants to be a star. | ||
| He wants to look at me and hash these things in public. | ||
| And our senator, I forgot, he said that he told, I forgot which senator it was now, but he told him, listen, don't be back and forth fighting with Trump. | ||
| And Trump has been the best friend that Zelensky had. | ||
| Biden and Obama, Obama made him give up his nuclear weapons. | ||
| And Biden was so weak that Russia was goaded into, hey, let me get in there and attack these people. | ||
| So I think Zelensky is misreading Trump. | ||
| And Europe is not stepping up. | ||
| And Trump is trying to get Europe to step up. | ||
| He had meetings with, I think, France and England to step up their protection of the area, their own area. | ||
| Paul, we'll get a response from Max. | ||
| We're short on time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, so thanks for the question, Paul. | |
| Look, I think the focus on Zelensky's dress, you know, it's legitimate critique. | ||
| I think what Zelensky would say, and this is, is that he's a wartime leader. | ||
| His country's at war, so he's adopting the dress of a wartime leader, and that when the war is over, he'll put his suit back on. | ||
| I think there was a little bit of a, you know, Zelensky's English isn't perfect. | ||
| He's been learning over the course of this war, in particular, it's been getting a lot better. | ||
| But the term costume, as he said, I think struck people off, but oftentimes that is the, I think what he was meaning, saying was suit, and sometimes that word costume could mean suit, that he put a suit back on. | ||
| And we've seen people like Churchill and others adopt a different dress during a wartime. | ||
| And so part of what he's trying to convey is that Ukraine isn't a normal country right now and is a country at war. | ||
| And Trump pointed that out. | ||
| And then there was a question in the White House about why do you wear this? | ||
| And Zelensky tried to explain himself. | ||
| But I guess what I would say, I think the dress is really, it depends on whether you're sympathetic to Ukraine or not. | ||
| So if you're not sympathetic to Ukraine, I think you see this as potentially disrespectful as a reason not to like Zelensky. | ||
| And then if you like Ukraine, you, I think, understand the logic. | ||
| So it's sort of an avatar for that issue. | ||
| I think what we also have to remember is that Zelensky and the Ukrainians are very proud. | ||
| They have been fighting Russia on their own. | ||
| They have been aided by the U.S., yes, but there have been no U.S. boots on the ground. | ||
| The Biden administration refused to provide the United States, put U.S. forces into this conflict. | ||
| Early on, there were talks of no-fly zones and other things. | ||
| European countries are not on the ground. | ||
| So it has been Ukraine versus a global military superpower. | ||
| And Ukrainians are holding their own. | ||
| And after getting really punched in the face in the first few weeks and months of the war, the Ukrainians fought back, gained a lot more territory, and now they're in this really tough attritional war. | ||
| And so, you know, if you start, if you're a wartime leader, you never want to show weakness. | ||
| You never want to bend the knee to anyone. | ||
| So there's a degree of pride here. | ||
| And I think it's worth, I think it's potentially reasonable to say Zelensky could have been more obsequious. | ||
| He could have been more deferential. | ||
| He could have said, thank you, thank you, thank you a lot more. | ||
| And he has in the past, but I think here he was trying to show that Ukraine isn't weak in the sense that, and I think it's very hard to know what was the right path, right? | ||
| Do you sort of bend the knee? | ||
| But then Trump tends to not respect countries that look weak, or do you look strong and you're going to stand up for yourself in the Oval Office? | ||
| And I think I could have totally seen, if you're an advisor to Zelensky, arguing both ways before the meeting, and then if you argue to, you know, be a little strong, stand up for yourself. | ||
| And then after the meeting, you're like, oh, well, maybe that was terrible advice. | ||
| I don't know if there was a way to salvage the meeting. | ||
| What I would say is the silver lining here is I think it demonstrated where the Trump administration wants to go, which is that it doesn't want to support Ukraine. | ||
| And now the cards are on the table. | ||
| And so if the Ukrainians view this as a stab, you know, that the United States was going to stab it in the back, it's better to be upfront and tell them that we're not going to be supporting you and to make that clear to the Europeans. | ||
| And to the caller's point, I think what we'll see is that the Europeans hopefully will step up. | ||
| And then if so, President Trump, having taken the actions over the last month and the rhetoric that he's used, will have, you know, will be a reason for that. | ||
| Now, I think it will have long-term damage to the transatlantic relationship. | ||
| It comes with cost, but I think it could result in Europe really stepping up. | ||
| Max Bergman is the director of Europe, Russia, and Eurasia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. | ||
| You can find his work online at csis.org. | ||
| Max, thank you so much for being with us this morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you so much for having me. | |
| Still ahead this morning on Washington Journal, Robin Rudowitz with KFF will join us to discuss the state of Medicaid and the impact of potential cuts to the program as House Republicans seek to offset the cost of their budget plan. | ||
| But first, it's open form. | ||
| You can start calling in now. | ||
| Here are the lines: Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Book TV, every Sunday on C-SPAN 2, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. | |
| Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. | ||
| At 8 p.m. Eastern, Ross Dalthick, author of Believe, and Jonathan Rauch, author of Cross Purposes, examine the decline of religiosity in America and what it means for the health of American democracy. | ||
| And then at 10 p.m. Eastern on Afterwards, Kevin Fagan, with his book The Lost and the Found: A True Story of Homelessness, Found Family, and Second Chances, reports on the underlying issues of homelessness in America, tracing the experiences of two unhoused persons in San Francisco. | ||
| He's interviewed by former Obama administration Housing and Urban Development Secretary Sean Donovan. | ||
| And at 11 p.m. Eastern, Pagan Kennedy, with her book The Secret History of the Rape Kit, recounts the development of a forensic tool to collect evidence in crimes of sexual assault, now known as the Rape Kit. | ||
| Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. | ||
| Next week, on the C-SPAN networks, the House and Senate are in session. | ||
| The House will vote on legislation to repeal Biden administration energy and environmental rules. | ||
| The Senate continues voting on President Trump's cabinet nominations, including Secretaries of Education and Labor. | ||
| Both chambers are facing a March 14th government funding deadline. | ||
| The House could begin voting on legislation to extend funding to the end of September to avert a shutdown. | ||
| On Tuesday, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee considers a nomination of Matthew Whitaker, former acting attorney general during President Trump's first administration, as U.S. Ambassador to NATO. | ||
| And Tuesday evening, President Trump delivers an address before a joint session of Congress. | ||
| Wednesday, the mayors of Boston, Chicago, Denver, and New York City testify before the House Oversight Committee on the policies of sanctuary cities. | ||
| And C-SPAN continues our comprehensive coverage of confirmation hearings for President Trump's leadership nominees. | ||
| The Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee will hold hearings for two nominees. | ||
| On Wednesday, Stanford University professor Dr. Jay Bhattacharya as director of the National Institutes of Health. | ||
| And on Thursday, Johns Hopkins surgical oncologist Martin McCarry as commissioner of the FDA. | ||
| Watch live next week on the C-SPAN networks or on C-SPAN Now, our free mobile video app. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on demand anytime. | ||
| C-SPAN. | ||
| Democracy unfiltered. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back. | ||
| We are in open form for the next 20 minutes or so. | ||
| We'll start with Jeff, Little Rock, Arkansas, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Jeff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, ma'am. | |
| How are you today? | ||
| I'm doing well. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Great. | |
| I just want to make mention: it's a sad day for the United States. | ||
| I know there's a lot of people supporting Trump, but I'll tell you what, I've never seen such a tag team bully match in my life. | ||
| Maybe Musk should have been there to keep peace. | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| God bless America. | ||
| Let's hear from Larry in Texas, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Larry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, you there. | |
| Yeah, hi, Larry. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| Just try to keep it as simple as possible. | ||
| Zelensky, if you'd look back over the past few weeks, Zelensky had opportunities to address this rare earth minerals deal, and he chose not to on a couple of different occasions. | ||
| And now he ends up in the White House, and we end up with this confrontation. | ||
| The thing is, the United States and Russia are both superpowers. | ||
| In order to make any kind of deal between superpowers, you have to move very carefully, step at a time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Zelensky is wanting to try to call out all the details and try to dictate to the United States how he wants it to go, rather than taking it a step at a time. | |
| Just saying this. | ||
| If he wants something truly from the United States, he needs to be able to work within the framework that we can present for him. | ||
| And I guess that's about it. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| That was Larry in Texas. | ||
| Let's go to Thomas in New York, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Thomas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| You see, I had never, I had been bullied. | ||
| When I was a child, I was bullied. | ||
| And I saw the difference today between a bully and a brave individual. | ||
| You know, you have to fight against bullyism. | ||
| And this is exactly what it was. | ||
| You had Daniel going into a den of lines where he was outnumbered, trying to state his love for his family, his country. | ||
| And here we have a Quid Pro Crow president who was impeached. | ||
| Why was he impeached? | ||
| For trying to give a quid pro-Crow previously. | ||
| So if you give up dirt on Joe Biden, then we will provide you with the money. | ||
| And this is it. | ||
| You are providing aid, betting, and assistance to a dictator, a murderous individual who plants his bombs, who sends his missiles to children's hospitals in Ukraine. | ||
| Mr. Zelensky, President Zelensky, you're not a dictator. | ||
| You are one of the bravest individuals I have ever known in my life, like a George Washington who would be willing to be hanged and not be known as a tyrant like Donald Trump and his trumpanzees. | ||
| And that's all I have to say. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Thomas in New York. | ||
| Robert in Cincinnati, Ohio, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Robert. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I seen the conference between Ukraine and Donald Trump, President Trump. | ||
| And I felt that Donald Trump was very disrespectful for how he presented himself to Ukrainian president. | ||
| Ukraine is a buffer between Russia and the Western European. | ||
| If Russia conquer Ukraine, the next they're going to go to Poland. | ||
| Then we will be in World War. | ||
| We have to continue to support Ukraine. | ||
| If not, we're going to have World War III. | ||
| Thank you for your time. | ||
| And God bless the United States and God bless Ukraine. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Robert in Ohio. | ||
| Wanted to share some other news. | ||
| This from today's Wall Street Journal. | ||
| Trump to declare English official language. | ||
| The article says that the president's expected to sign an executive order. | ||
| It would rescind a federal mandate issued by former President Bill Clinton that agencies and other recipients of federal funding are required to provide language assistance to non-English speakers. | ||
| Officials said agencies will still be able to provide documents and services in language other than English, according to a White House summary of the order viewed by the Wall Street Journal. | ||
| The summary of the order said the goal of making English the national language is to promote unity, establish efficiency in the government, and provide a pathway to civic engagement. | ||
| The article goes on to say that though the U.S. doesn't have an official language, applicants must pass a test demonstrating an ability to read, write, and speak English to become naturalized citizens. | ||
| According to the U.S. Census Bureau, most Americans, more than 78%, speak only English at home, but millions of Americans primarily speak other languages, such as Spanish, Chinese, and Tagalog. | ||
| Dozens of Native American languages are also spoken in the U.S. More than 30 states have passed legislation designating English as their official language. | ||
| Back to your calls. | ||
| Let's talk with Bill in Albany, New York, line for Republicans. | ||
| Hi, Bill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| You know, looking objectively at everything, and I watched your C-SPAN before the Washington Journal. | ||
| You had the whole thing on from start to finish. | ||
| And it seemed like everything was going well, and President Trump was being very, you know, congenial with President Zelensky. | ||
| And things were going good. | ||
| I think the way, from the way I see it, using common sense, what touched off President Trump was when President Zelensky said that things could happen here in America. | ||
| He said the ocean was protecting us, and he says it will happen here to you. | ||
| And you could see all of a sudden Trump turned from being very polite and very, you know, that really got him. | ||
| In other words, what Zelensky was saying was that you're going to be attacked by the United States is going to be attacked by Russia. | ||
| And that's when Trump went off the, you know, flew off the handle and said, you can't tell us what's going to happen to us. | ||
| We know what we have, and we're strong. | ||
| And that's really what did it. | ||
| Because he was, you know, he brought him here. | ||
| They were trying to negotiate, trying to get peace, trying to stop the shootings. | ||
| And I think that's the thing. | ||
| If anybody goes back and looks it up, you'll see at that point was when it happened, when he said that the ocean keeps us from being invaded and that it will happen here. | ||
| And that's when President Trump got upset. | ||
| And probably, in a way, rightfully so, because he was saying that we were going to be, you know, attacked, I guess. | ||
| And I just wanted to make that point to people. | ||
| If you just watch it and look at it objectively from that point, you'll see it. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| That was Bill in New York. | ||
| Peter in North Conway, New Hampshire, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Peter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'd like to offer the following background on the disputed areas between Russia and Ukraine. | ||
| 270 years ago, Catherine the Great annexed that area in order to get a warm-water port, giving them access to the Mediterranean and the Atlantic during the winter. | ||
| And they built a naval base there comparable to Pearl Harbor. | ||
| Following Stalin's death in 1953, Khrushchev wanted to become premier and he wanted to get Ukraine to support him. | ||
| He gifted the Donbass and Crimea to Ukraine. | ||
| Following the fall of the USSR in 1995, the United States and Russia provided, agreed to provide security to Ukraine if they would move their nuclear weapons back to Russia. | ||
| They did that within a year. | ||
| Donbass and Crimea is largely occupied or populated by Russians. | ||
| Putin believes that the 270-year history is more important than the 70 years since 1953, and that Donbass and Ukraine and Crimea, Crimea, should revert back to Russia. | ||
| That's the fundamental reason for the war. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Peter in New Hampshire, Nancy, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Nancy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I want to address quickly one thing to a previous caller who said that you need to watch the whole entire video. | ||
| Well, I watched the whole entire video. | ||
| And this was absolutely an ambush. | ||
| With the Russian media there filming live, it was embarrassing and appalling what I saw on the world stage. | ||
| Trump and JD trying to bully Zelensky into making a deal, signing a deal. | ||
| The Democrats always knew that Trump would be, Dictator Trump would be the one to give up Ukraine to Putin. | ||
| Although Ukraine is trying to do the right thing by giving up 50% of his minerals, his country minerals, and all he's asking, which is a huge deal, is to make sure his country has security. | ||
| He doesn't trust Putin and Russia, so why should we? | ||
| We should not trust them neither. | ||
| I don't understand why the country won't open their eyes to see that what Trump is and what he's doing is showing weakness, not strength. | ||
| I've never felt so unsafe in my own country or abroad as I do now. | ||
| And if we don't wake up soon, we won't have a country. | ||
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| That was Nancy in North Carolina or South Carolina. | ||
| A headline from this morning's New York Times in show of force, China puts Pacific on notice as U.S. priorities shift. | ||
| The article says that China has in recent weeks staged military drills off Australia and Vietnam, sending pointed warnings near and far. | ||
| Neither was a full-fledged exercise, but taken together, China's recent show of force, experts say, said, convey a message. | ||
| The region must not ignore Beijing's power and claims. | ||
| Three Chinese naval ships, including a cruiser with 112 missile tubes, showed up in the waters near Australia last month, only announcing plans to fire artillery for practice after the exercise had started. | ||
| A few days later, on Monday, Chinese forces held Li-Fire drills in the Gulf of Tonkin after Vietnam pressed its territorial claims in the Gulf. | ||
| Meanwhile, Chinese military aircraft buzz the skies near Taiwan almost daily. | ||
| While Washington is consumed with other matters from Ukraine and the Middle East to budget cuts at the Pentagon, China keeps pressing. | ||
| The exercises, while relatively brief, highlight that China's military reach is likely to keep growing regardless of whether the Trump administration ultimately tries to confront China or pull it into some kind of deal. | ||
| Just a few minutes left. | ||
| Let's hear from Sharon in South Carolina, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Sharon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I'm on the line for Democrats. | |
| Anyway, the comment that I want to make is that the meeting on yesterday, it was appalling. | ||
| It was disgusting for Trump and Vance to carry on and bring out the way they were. | ||
| And it's President Zelensky was there to make peace. | ||
| He was there to get some questions answered and to get some clarification. | ||
| That's what he was there for. | ||
| Now, my thing is, and I wanted to ask the previous guests that you had, why isn't Putin there at these meetings? | ||
| Why isn't he there to answer these questions, confront Zelensky together, him and Zelensky get together and put an end to this ceasefire? | ||
| Why does Trump feel he has to stand in the middle of what they need to do for their country to make peace? | ||
| Okay? | ||
| He wants to be a dictator, Mr. Trump. | ||
| Well, you know what? | ||
| You better watch it because you may bring him on this country here, okay? | ||
| And then you'll probably be ready to hide in your bunker with your family. | ||
| But please be careful of what Donald Trump says and what he does. | ||
| He's showing it right now. | ||
| But my thing is, and I wanted to ask the previous guest, why can't Sabensky and Putin come to the table together? | ||
| Got your point, Sharon. | ||
| Let's hear from Sean in Idaho, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Sean. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Okay, so here's the deal: We have two million hungry children in America, and we are giving away billions of dollars, billions of dollars to Ukraine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
My best friend is Russian, and I have another really good friend that is Ukrainian. | |
| My friend from Ukraine is a doctor. | ||
| He was a doctor there. | ||
| He had to flee that country because that country is the most corrupt country in Europe. | ||
| And until Biden got into office, we all considered Ukraine to be the most corrupt country in Europe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And we are giving away all of our money where we can save our hungry children here in the U.S. | |
| This whole thing, and Trump is, Trump is protecting us, is what the deal is. | ||
| If Russia takes over Ukraine, they're not going to, they will not invade any other country. | ||
| This whole thing is ridiculous, and the media is plain that Ukraine is some great country. | ||
| They're the most corrupt country in Europe, and we're giving away all of our money. | ||
| Got your point, Sean. | ||
| Wanted to give you a programming note for the upcoming where President Trump is scheduled to address a joint session of Congress next week. | ||
| That's happening on Tuesday. | ||
| He'll lay out his priorities and a vision for the country during his second term. | ||
| We will have live coverage beginning at 8 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN with a preview, and that will be followed by the president's speech at 9 and the Democratic response following that. | ||
| We'll also take viewer calls and get reaction on social media. | ||
| Again, you can watch that live on C-SPAN, C-SPAN now, and that's our free video app or online at c-span.org. | ||
| Let's hear from Kevin in Connecticut, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Kevin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hi, Kevin. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, I just want to say if people really watched what happened yesterday, they had an agreement to sign a deal. | |
| And once Zelensky got in there, he started trying to add to the deal by asking for the security. | ||
| But that wasn't part of the original deal. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| And it was Kevin in Connecticut. | ||
| Tom, San Jose, California, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And good morning. | |
| I think it's so funny that Trump can accuse Zelensky of being the dictator and invading Ukraine when we all saw Russia invade Ukraine. | ||
| And yet, his followers, oh, they believe him whatever he says. | ||
| I think it's so funny. | ||
| And now all the Republicans are such cowards that they're not even doing town halls because they can't handle the heat because so many people are upset with what's going on with Trump. | ||
| Even after they gave praise to Zelensky, these Republicans praised him, and we have these shots of them shaking hands with Zelensky. | ||
| After Trump and Vance ambushed him, they took all those down. | ||
| What a bunch of cowards Republicans are. | ||
| They're going to just put their tails between their legs and hide. | ||
| And if we don't vote these guys out, they're going to take over our Medicaid. | ||
| They're going to take away all of everything that we have fought for. | ||
| And I'm saying, you know, you cannot convince his followers that their own eyes saw Putin invade Ukraine. | ||
| They just believe whatever Trump says. | ||
| It's disgusting. | ||
| They're cowards. | ||
| And Graham is a grunt. | ||
| Give me a break. | ||
| That was Tom in California. | ||
| Mike in Florida, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, how you doing? | |
| Doing well, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Hello, how are you doing? | ||
| Yes, I'm glad to see what's going on. | ||
| I know I see Kalinsky, he's doing the right thing, and I know Trump's just bullying him and everything like that. | ||
| But I want to say this: people in the Red State voting for Trump. | ||
| I want to say this. | ||
| When Trump and Lelon must go after that Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and everything, they're going to regret who they voted for. | ||
| They still think Trump's great and everything like that. | ||
| But once he started, when they tag team taking the government programs away, we're going to see how they're going to react and what they're going to do then. | ||
| I want to see, especially in the Red States, because they praise Trump and say, hey, Trump, this and that. | ||
| But when they start coming after all those programs, we're going to see what happens then. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Mike in Florida in our last call in this portion of the program. | ||
| Daniel in Florida, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Daniel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I just want to say Donald Trump is the best thing that's ever happened to the United States. | ||
| He realizes our country is sitting on huge amounts of natural gas and oil that we can make our country great if we would stop the bureaucracy to lend the democracy. | ||
| The near people out there that don't see that we're $37 trillion in debt and don't realize what Trump is trying to do, like trying to get that money and put it towards the Americans, like the one gentleman said about those children starving in America. | ||
| Let's put America first and let's break the corruptness and the bureaucracy in Alaska that has kept people from drilling and producing hordes of oil and gas from Anwar and all over Alaska. | ||
| The money is just sitting in the ground wasting away. | ||
| We're $37 trillion in debt. | ||
| We spend most of the year working to pay taxes to pay off debt. | ||
| When are these Democrats going to wake up and realize Trump is the best thing that's ever happened to America and they should just do a little bit of reading, a little bit of studying to realize it would be a lot better to be prosperous than poor. | ||
| Thank you for your time. | ||
| That was Daniel in Florida. | ||
| Next on Washington Journal, Robin Rudowitz of KFF will join us to discuss the state of Medicaid and the impact of potential cuts to the program as House Republicans seek to offset the costs of their budget plan. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Book TV, every Sunday on C-SPAN 2, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. | |
| Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. | ||
| At 8 p.m. Eastern, Ross Dalthick, author of Believe, and Jonathan Rauch, author of Cross Purposes, examine the decline of religiosity in America and what it means for the health of American democracy. | ||
| And then at 10 p.m. Eastern on Afterwards, Kevin Fagan, with his book, The Lost and the Found, a true story of homelessness, found family, and second chances, reports on the underlying issues of homelessness in America, tracing the experiences of two unhoused persons in San Francisco. | ||
| He's interviewed by former Obama administration Housing and Urban Development Secretary Sean Donovan. | ||
| And at 11 p.m. Eastern, Pagan Kennedy, with her book, The Secret History of the Rape Kit, recounts the development of a forensic tool to collect evidence in crimes of sexual assault, now known as the Rape Kit. | ||
| Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. | ||
| Sunday on C-SPAN's Q&A, we'll talk with National Geographic Explorer Tara Roberts, who travels the world documenting underwater wrecks of some of the 12,000 slave ships that operated during the Atlantic slave trade. | ||
| In her memoir, Written in the Waters, Roberts discusses the training and preparation required to undertake the diving missions and the work done by the nonprofit organization Diving with a Purpose, which is primarily composed of African-American divers. | ||
| When I saw this picture in the museum, these women, and it turned out that they were a part of this group called Diving with a Purpose, and that they spent their time searching for and documenting slave shipwrecks around the world. | ||
| I was like, oh my God, there are people who look like me who are living a life of adventure. | ||
| Maybe this could be for me too. | ||
| Tara Roberts with her book Written in the Waters Sunday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN's Q ⁇ A. You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on our free C-SPAN Now app. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us now to discuss the state of Medicaid and impact of potential spending cuts is Robin Rudowitz. | ||
| She is with KFF, where she's the vice president and also director for the program on Medicaid and the uninsured. | ||
| Robin, thank you for being with us. | ||
| Thank you for having me. | ||
| We'll just jump right in. | ||
| When we talk about potential cuts to the program, the House this week approved a budget that extends expiring tax cut, but that means that they are going to have to cut about $880 billion. | ||
| The committee that oversees Medicaid is the House and Energy, I'm sorry, the House Energy and Commerce Committee. | ||
| They're the ones who oversee Medicaid. | ||
| So it could be up to them to reach that goal. | ||
| Is it possible? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, that's a good question. | |
| So certainly there's the House budget resolution, as you said, has passed and the Energy and Commerce Committee would then be charged with coming up with the very specific proposals to meet that target for the committee. | ||
| And we know that Energy and Commerce, the largest piece of what they have jurisdiction over, is Medicaid and parts of Medicare. | ||
| But Medicare has been largely off the table in terms of seeking federal cuts. | ||
| So we know that a large portion of those cuts are likely to come from the Medicaid program. | ||
| And we're going to have to see how the committee, what policies they might look at to try to reach that target. | ||
| Just to give our audience make sure that we're all on the same page, how many and what kind of Americans who's on Medicaid and what's at stake if spending is cut? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure, so Medicaid is a pretty complicated program in our healthcare system. | |
| It has many roles in the healthcare system. | ||
| So it is a big piece of coverage for people in the country. | ||
| So one in five Americans are covered by the program. | ||
| It's about 80 million people, particularly children. | ||
| So four in 10 children and eight in 10 children in poverty are covered by the program. | ||
| It's also an important program for people with disabilities. | ||
| So one in three people with disabilities are also covered by the Medicaid program. | ||
| It also has a number of other roles. | ||
| So it's really important for low-income Medicare beneficiaries. | ||
| It helps Medicare program work for those people. | ||
| It provides help paying for premiums and cost sharing and services that Medicare doesn't cover. | ||
| So long-term care services in particular. | ||
| So Medicaid is the largest payer of long-term care services. | ||
| So nursing homes and people that get home care. | ||
| Medicare doesn't pay for that, so Medicaid pays for that. | ||
| And five in eight people in nursing facilities are covered by Medicaid. | ||
| And when we talk about Medicaid and the number of people who are covered by it, and you mentioned some of the programs there, in general, what are the requirements for someone to receive Medicaid? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So it's the program for people who are low income. | |
| So people need to meet an income requirement. | ||
| And generally, people need to be just over the poverty level. | ||
| So that's about $20,000 annually for an individual or about $25,000 or $30,000 for a family of three annually to meet the income criteria. | ||
| There are some higher level incomes for people, for kids and for people during pregnancy, but pretty low, you need to meet pretty low income standards to be on the program. | ||
| Your organization, KFF, recently did some polling on Medicaid. | ||
| Tell us about the findings, how Americans view Medicaid and the potential cuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, so the program is really popular, and that's across political parties. | |
| So consistently, our polling has showed that, you know, large majorities, so three-quarters of Americans have favorable views of the program. | ||
| And the statistic that really always is shocking to me is that we ask about connection to the program, and we know that two-thirds of Americans have some connection to the program. | ||
| Either they themselves or a family member or a close friend have direct experience with the Medicaid program. | ||
| So that's pretty broad connection to the program. | ||
| We also know that nearly half think that, you know, as we're about to go into the debate about cutting Medicaid, we know that about half of Americans also think that the federal government doesn't spend enough on the program. | ||
| So that is some of the views from our polling that as we go into this debate to keep in mind. | ||
| Our guest for the next 35 minutes or so is Robin Rudowitz with KFF. | ||
| She's director for programs on Medicaid and the uninsured. | ||
| If you have a question or comment for her, you can start calling in now. | ||
| The lines, Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| Wanted to let you know that for this segment, we also have a line for Medicaid recipients, and that is 202-748-8003. | ||
| And Robin, this is something that has been talked about in Congress, and it was something that Speaker Mike Johnson spoke about on Tuesday, specifically the need to root out fraud and waste in Medicaid when it comes to spending cuts. | ||
| I want to play the clip, and we'll get your reaction. | ||
| Yeah, so look, let me clarify what we're talking about with Medicaid. | ||
| Medicaid is hugely problematic because it has a lot of fraud, waste, and abuse. | ||
| Everybody knows that. | ||
| We all know it intuitively. | ||
| No one in here would disagree. | ||
| We had a hearing in budget just last week, or week before last, and they asked the experts, and the estimate is, I think it's $50 billion a year in fraud alone in Medicaid. | ||
| Those are precious taxpayer dollars. | ||
| Everybody is committed to preserving Medicare benefits for those who desperately need it and deserve it and qualify for it. | ||
| What we're talking about is rooting out the fraud, waste, and abuse. | ||
| Every taxpayer, it doesn't matter what party you're in, you should be for that because it saves your money and it preserves the programs so that it is available for the people who desperately need it. | ||
| That's what we're about. | ||
| And that's what you're going to see happen. | ||
| We want to make sure that illegal aliens who do not qualify are not on the rolls. | ||
| And we know that they are in many places. | ||
| We can achieve a lot of savings with that. | ||
| We can eliminate all these fraudulent payments and achieve a lot of savings. | ||
| What you're doing with that is you're shoring up the program and you're making sure that the people who rely upon that have it and that it's a better program. | ||
| That's what we're talking about. | ||
| You've heard the president say that. | ||
| You've heard members of the House Republican Conference say that. | ||
| And no one else has said anything else except the Democrats who have ads out that are lying about the intention here. | ||
| That's the fact. | ||
| The leader just held up the resolution. | ||
| Do a word search for yourself. | ||
| It doesn't even mention Medicaid in the bill. | ||
| So that's the important part. | ||
| So Republicans arguing that Medicaid spending can be cut simply by rooting out this waste and fraud. | ||
| To what extent is that true? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, we certainly have heard the speaker say that, and President Trump also talks about fraud in the program. | |
| I think, and as the speaker said, I don't think there would find you would find many arguments that people don't support fraud in our federal programs. | ||
| I think when we look at fraud in Medicaid, there are a few things that we know, and we know that there are no good estimates of how much fraud there is in the program in Medicaid, Medicare, private insurance, the health sector is a large program. | ||
| We know it's not zero, but we also know that there's nowhere near $880 billion in fraud to meet those spending reduction targets. | ||
| We also know that the Congressional Budget Office, so the scorekeeper of evaluating the cost savings for legislative proposals, is not likely to score a lot of savings from anti-fraud measures. | ||
| And we often hear this talk about error rates or a lot of fraud in the program, and that is referring to some of these error rates. | ||
| And that is not a measure of fraud. | ||
| So, those are usually a result of lack of documentation or paperwork problems. | ||
| So, I think sometimes just be we should all be listening for when we hear about those improper payments or error rates because that is not a measure of fraud. | ||
| I think when we do our polling, people also support addressing fraud, but there was also concern that those efforts would reduce benefits for people. | ||
| And I think we're just going to have to watch to see how the debate unfolds and how some of the reductions in spending to achieve those targets might be reframed or recast as addressing fraud and abuse. | ||
| We will bring our audience into the discussion. | ||
| We'll start with Rudy in Leavenworth, Kansas, Lyon for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Rudy. | ||
| Rudy, are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Hi, Rudy. | ||
| You're on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, are you ready for my question? | |
| Yes, go ahead, Rudy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Donald Trump, when he was campaigning, said he didn't know anything about Project 2025. | ||
| That turned out to be untrue. | ||
| And he's also said recently that he's not going to touch Medicaid. | ||
| And if that's the case, do you believe him? | ||
| Or do you think he should just simply ask Congress to take that portion out of the budget? | ||
| thank you very much. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| It looks like we lost our caller. | ||
| We will go to Michael in Las Vegas, Nevada, who is on the line for Medicaid recipient. | ||
| Good morning, Michael. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| Good morning, Robin. | ||
| I've been on Medicaid for about eight months because my kidneys start working. | ||
| I'm on the, I hope to go on the kidney transplant list so I could go back into the workforce. | ||
| But I've been paying into Social Security since I was 11 years old. | ||
| And if there's fraud and abuse in Medicaid, of course, get it out. | ||
| But we know it's something deeper. | ||
| The Republicans have been after Medicaid since its inception in the 1930s. | ||
| And it's one of the best-run programs in the world. | ||
| So are they going to get it this time? | ||
| Go ahead, Michael. | ||
| Say it one more time for our guest, Robin. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, hello, Robert. | |
| I've been on Medicaid for about eight months now because my kidneys are not working and hopefully I can get back into the workforce. | ||
| I've been paying it to the system since I was 11 years old. | ||
| The Republicans have hated this program since its inception in the 1930s. | ||
| It's one of the best run programs anywhere in the world, really. | ||
| And are they going to get it this time? | ||
| Well, that's a good question. | ||
| I think we're going to have to watch the debate, but I think your experience on Medicaid, we've just recently done some focus groups and we have over the years and we know that many people on the program really value the coverage and are getting the services that they need, including treatment as well as medications and are concerned about cuts that would affect those benefits. | ||
| Let's hear from Peter in Vermont, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Peter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| My question is, are Medicaid benefits paid out to non-United States citizens? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| That's a great question. | ||
| And Medicaid is, there are no, Medicaid does not cover undocumented immigrants. | ||
| So, you know, when this speaker was talking about fraud, there's only, you know, there's no coverage for undocumented immigrants. | ||
| There are a few options for children and pregnant women who are lawfully present immigrants who are able to be covered by the program at state option. | ||
| And when we talk about the Medicaid and people who are covered, tell us what the budget for Medicaid is right now, where it stands, and also explain how it's financed, the state versus federal role. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| So Medicaid spending is about, shockingly, about $880 billion in the most recent estimates of total spending. | ||
| But that spending is shared across the states and the federal government. | ||
| So when the program was created in 1965, there were a few foundational pieces of that. | ||
| So one is that it's an entitlement to enrollees, but it's also a guarantee to states in terms of matching dollars. | ||
| So when more people enroll or when costs go up, states pay more, but the federal government matches those dollars. | ||
| And the program was also set up that states have a lot of flexibility to administer their programs within these broad federal rules. | ||
| So everyone always says if you've seen one Medicaid program, you've seen one Medicaid program because all states operate them differently. | ||
| But again, that financing is shared and the federal government pays overall about 70% of all the pieces of Medicaid for the traditional Medicaid program. | ||
| So for kids and pregnant people and elderly and people with disabilities, the program and the share that the federal government pays varies across states and that is based on states per capita income. | ||
| So poorer states, the federal government pays a higher share of those costs. | ||
| Let's hear from Mike in Oak Harbor, Oak Harbor, Washington, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I would like to just weigh in here in regards to my personal experience with Medicaid. | ||
| My wife and I are 76. | ||
| We're healthy. | ||
| We're middle class. | ||
| I'm a retired school teacher. | ||
| We are caregivers for our daughter who is 48, who's had extreme seizures for many years, 44 of those years. | ||
| And Medicaid for our family has been a real lifesaver because her medications are extremely expensive, up to $3,000, $4,000 a month. | ||
| And so for us as a middle-class family, we would be in a world of hurt where we have to live on a very low level of income taking care of her. | ||
| So we are extremely thankful for Medicaid, and we're thankful also for the ease with which we were able to get that for her, which was probably around 20 years ago. | ||
| So that is really the bulk of my contributions here to the conversation. | ||
| There are people in our situation where the family may not be destitute, but certainly the loved one is and would be in a world of hurt were it not for Medicaid. | ||
| So just thank you for listening to me. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| Thank you for calling. | ||
| And I think your experience represents there are 4.5 million people who get home care services through the Medicaid program. | ||
| And that involves care for individuals and also support for caregivers, often family caregivers in similar circumstances to the caller. | ||
| Walk us through some of the alternatives Republicans could pursue to reduce the size of Medicaid besides just spinning cuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, there were a number of options that were on the table. | |
| Recently, you know, the Speaker and the President have moved away from some of those options that had come up, but so we don't know if those will be considered, but I think some of them that had been on the table are sort of caps on per enrollee spending. | ||
| So again, right now, the federal government doesn't have a cap on spending, and it varies by the needs of the people who are covered and how many people are on the program and increasing in costs. | ||
| So one policy is that the federal government caps that amount that they would send to the states in terms of dollars per enrollee. | ||
| There's also some provisions that have been floated around to address the enhanced matching rate for the expansion population. | ||
| So as part of the Affordable Care Act, there was an expansion in Medicaid coverage. | ||
| And as part of that legislation and deal, the federal government is paying 90% of the costs for that expansion population. | ||
| So there have been some proposals to reduce the federal share for that population and payments for those people. | ||
| Let's talk with Bill and Pennsylvania Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Bill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| You hear me okay? | ||
| Yes, go ahead, Bill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, thank you to C-STEN for giving me the opportunity to speak. | |
| I am driving to Philadelphia at this moment to visit my six-year-old granddaughter. | ||
| She has endured in two surgeries, 13 hours of surgery for a tumor in her brain that has been removed. | ||
| Fortunately, it is benign, but it had to be removed. | ||
| She's been in the hospital for a total of 11 days. | ||
| The bills are certainly going to be in the hundreds of thousands for this surgery. | ||
| And I just want to say, we've been told that Medicare will cover, I mean, Medicaid will cover this surgery because she's a child. | ||
| And if it does not, somehow, it would be devastating for her health and for the financial well-being of her family. | ||
| So this issue is very dear to my heart, let me say. | ||
| Yeah, thank you for sharing. | ||
| And I hope your granddaughter is okay. | ||
| And again, your experience is similar to many other people on the program with particularly for children. | ||
| Medicaid provides a lot of broad coverage for children, many children with special health care needs and very complex medical conditions. | ||
| And the program does provide that coverage, which does provide financial protection for families that are getting that care and coverage. | ||
| Debbie in Waterford, Michigan, line for, she's on the line for Medicaid recipient. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hi. | ||
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I always watch this show, but this one really hits the heart. | ||
| I am a recipient. | ||
| I'm 66 years old, and I've been on Medicaid for about a year and a half. | ||
| And I'm actually thinking a lot of the fraud and abuse could be in the billing. | ||
| I know I actually was able to go to a doctor visit for the first time in 10 years, and they billed almost $3,000. | ||
| And then I just don't understand this. | ||
| If the bills weren't so high, they wouldn't be getting hit so hard. | ||
| And I'm just so grateful for the help because, like I said, it's been over 10 years since I could even go see a doctor. | ||
| Anyway, thanks for listening. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| Thank you for calling. | ||
| And yeah, it is, there's always a little bit of a disconnect between the bills that providers charge, and I think that's in Medicaid, Medicare, and private insurance, and how those relate to cost is very, very confusing. | ||
| You know, there are some bad actor providers that, you know, are trying to extract financial gain from the overall health care system, and that could include Medicaid and Medicare. | ||
| But often, just as we know, health care bills are very expensive. | ||
| We know that, again, in private insurance as well as the Medicaid and Medicaid program. | ||
| Neil in Minter, Ohio, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Neil. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, hi, good morning. | |
| I'd just like to know if the people that collect Medicaid, do they pay into it? | ||
| Because I pay into Medicare, and I've been paying into it for 45 years. | ||
| Every week they take money out of my paycheck, and I've never been able to collect anything. | ||
| And now that I'm older, they're going to make me pay another $200 a month just to be on Plan B or whatever for Medicare. | ||
| So I don't see, because I've made a couple dollars more barely, that I get nothing. | ||
| And Medicaid and welfare, they get stuff for free their whole lives. | ||
| I don't understand that. | ||
| And that's all I'd like to say about it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, thanks for calling. | ||
| So there is no dedicated portion of payroll tax that's devoted to the Medicaid program. | ||
| It is supported by federal government revenues as well as state revenues. | ||
| And individuals do need to meet income standards. | ||
| Many individuals on the program are working and are working in low-wage jobs and therefore are eligible for coverage. | ||
| And there are, as I mentioned, a number of low-income Medicare beneficiaries where the Medicaid program helps people who do have low-income pay for those premiums for the Medicare coverage as well. | ||
| The caller asking about Medicare reminder audience, the difference between those two similar sounding programs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| So Medicare is the primary program for seniors, so people over 65, and again, people pay into the program, and for also people with disabilities. | ||
| So Medicaid also covers some of those people. | ||
| So those are the people who are duly eligible. | ||
| But the Medicare program really focuses on acute care services, so hospitals, physicians, now prescription drugs, and the Medicaid program wraps around those services and provides things that Medicare does not cover for those individuals like long-term care. | ||
| And Medicaid also covers children, people during pregnancy, as well as working adults through the Medicaid Expansion Group. | ||
| Clyde in Queens, New York, Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Clyde. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hey, good morning. | |
| You played the clip of the House Speaker. | ||
| I'm an independent. | ||
| He's Republican. | ||
| I used to be a Republican many, many years ago. | ||
| They are very strategic in their work. | ||
| They got pumped in there on using dog whistles and what have you like that to get the mass of mega people to vote for them. | ||
| And this is what they voted for. | ||
| And they didn't know because most of the mega people are uneducated poor whites. | ||
| And unfortunately, they voted for this thing and now they're going to get hit the worst. | ||
| And Robin, he's trying to tell you, and she's trying to be nice about it, but she knows it's going to hit the red states real bad. | ||
| That's pretty much what I have to say. | ||
| I mean, I would just follow up to say that we just did some focus groups with Medicaid enrollees, both individuals who voted for President Trump and individuals who voted for Vice President Harris. | ||
| And I think a lot of people didn't hear very much during the campaign about health care more broadly and particularly about Medicaid. | ||
| So across voting preferences, individuals on the program valued their coverage. | ||
| And when the topic of potential cuts came up, we're very concerned that those cuts would result in loss of coverage or loss in benefits for themselves or other kids that are covered on the program. | ||
| And many just didn't hear about that. | ||
| They were voting on economic issues and did not think that their health coverage would be part of this discussion. | ||
| The potential cuts, the budget's in the early stages. | ||
| Like you mentioned, we don't know what cuts could look like, how this could impact Medicaid down the road. | ||
| But you also mentioned your polling and that it is popular with across political parties. | ||
| If it were to make it into a budget potential cuts, is it likely those cuts would actually be put into effect? | ||
| Would they pass? | ||
|
unidentified
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Well, I think the cuts at the federal level are one discussion. | |
| So again, if the Senate adopts this budget resolution and committees are charged with coming up with policies to meet those reductions, I think that's going to be hard given the popular support and given the people who are covered on the program and the providers, so nursing homes, hospitals, rural hospitals that all rely on revenues from the program. | ||
| But if that does happen, what happens then is cuts in federal spending on Medicaid then get shifted to the states. | ||
| So because states administer their program, then states are left with really hard decisions and states might make different decisions about how to respond to less federal money. | ||
| And states don't have good options either. | ||
| They can either raise revenue at the state level, so increase state taxes. | ||
| They can cut education, which is the biggest piece of state dollars and state budgets, or they could decide to make reductions to the Medicaid program. | ||
| That could mean loss of coverage, lower provider rates, restrictions and benefits. | ||
| So it's really the states that ultimately will wind up making these hard decisions about how to manage their state programs with less federal money. | ||
| Jack in Georgia, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Jack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| I just want to ask, I think what the United States has is an old people problem. | ||
| And Medicare, we think of it as covering old people, and we think of Medicaid as covering poor people. | ||
| But you mentioned long-term care, but the people who, especially the MAGA people who complain about Medicaid, they're imagining the old Reagan welfare queen. | ||
| And you must have the numbers of what fraction of Medicaid is spent on old people. | ||
| In addition to long-term care, I know plenty of old people who are poor who Medicare doesn't, they have A, but they don't have Part B. | ||
| They can't afford it. | ||
| So Medicaid is covering. | ||
| So, I mean, I have a gut feeling that at least half of all the Medicaid spending is spent on old people. | ||
| And last thing, the Veterans Administration is also spending a whole bunch of money on old people, and there's probably fraud and abuse there as well. | ||
| And all these veterans, you know, people can't touch, you can't touch the veterans, but there's a bunch of veterans getting health care the same kind of way that they're getting Medicaid. | ||
| And do they deserve, like this guy who called earlier, I paid into the system, I paid into the system. | ||
| You know, we paid into Social Security, we paid into Medicare, but we're getting higher benefits than we paid in, many of us. | ||
| And same with the veterans. | ||
| I mean, half the veterans never left the country. | ||
| They worked in cubicles and then they go get all these benefits. | ||
| So do you have numbers on how much we have an old person problem? | ||
| Jack, let's get a response. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, thanks for pointing out that statistic. | |
| And it's one that I often make in explaining the Medicaid program. | ||
| The large majority of people on the program are kids and adults, but the large majority of spending, so over half of the spending on the program, is for people who qualify on the basis of a disability or because of age, so over 65. | ||
| So that is where the large majority of Medicaid spending is, even though it represents a small number of enrollees. | ||
| And it is because those individuals have higher needs, higher health care costs, and use long-term care services, which are very expensive. | ||
| Again, nursing facility and home care services. | ||
| Just a few minutes left. | ||
| Let's go to Laura in Spokane, Washington, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Laura. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I'm calling to ask: now, with an $880 billion cost to our country, how it is that you can come to the opinion that there's not very much fraud going on. | ||
| I mean, and then that is what the Republicans are looking for, is fraud. | ||
| They are not looking to cut the services of Medicaid or Social Security Internet. | ||
| They're looking for the fraud. | ||
| And there is a massive amount throughout our government. | ||
| And we have been not been, I mean, Democrats really did a number on us with their funding of everything and everybody for everything, you know. | ||
| So my question is, if you haven't read the bill, how can you say that there's going to be cuts? | ||
| That's my question. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So there is no bill yet. | ||
| So there are these spending targets, which are the $880 billion over 10 years that is part of the House budget resolution that was passed. | ||
| And now the committee, so the Committee on Energy and Commerce, again, if this is adopted in the Senate as well, will need to come up with those specific proposals about how to hit those targets. | ||
| So addressing fraud could be one of those options. | ||
| And there could be policies that are targeted and aimed at doing that. | ||
| It is unlikely that those policies will get to the $880 billion. | ||
| Let's talk with Alfonso in Goodyear, Arizona, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Alfonso. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I have a couple questions, kind of following the last lady that spoke. | ||
| Okay, if it's not in the bill yet, which the Speaker of the House said it was, if the term Medicaid is not in there, where are we finding these issues for fraud, waste, and abuse? | ||
| And if they do come to fruition, how long after the bill is passed will we start to see these cuts in Medicaid that everybody's up in arms about? | ||
| Basically, that's it. | ||
| If it's not in there, why are we having this discussion? | ||
| And if it is for abuse and fraud, why are so many people against it? | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| I think that's a good question. | ||
| And the way that the budget resolution works is it is true that there is no mention of Medicaid in the budget resolution. | ||
| So the target is for the Energy and Commerce Committee. | ||
| And we just, you know, understand that the Energy and Commerce Committee has jurisdiction over Medicaid. | ||
| And if they need to find spending reductions, that that is the program that makes up the large piece of what they have to work with. | ||
| So it's just a math issue, particularly if parts of Medicare that are under the committee's jurisdiction are off the table. | ||
| So I think in terms of when people or when the effects of policies might take place, that $880 billion is a 10-year target. | ||
| So if policies are enacted, they may not start tomorrow. | ||
| But then, you know, the spending targets are over a 10-year period. | ||
| Jim in Goldenrod, Florida, on the line for Medicaid recipient. | ||
| Good morning, Jim. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I got a quick question for Robin. | ||
| My sister was on Medicare and Medicaid, I guess. | ||
| Anyway, they send her a bill. | ||
| She just had a hysterectomy and not much else. | ||
| And I'm on Medicare. | ||
| They've been doing me all right and Medicaid. | ||
| But the thing is, when she went in, she turned around and got a bill just for a hysterectomy and they reset her bladder. | ||
| 248,000. | ||
| She was in a hospital one day. | ||
| There's got to be a problem with fraud somewhere between the providers and Medicare. | ||
| They got to sort that out. | ||
| It's terrible. | ||
| 248,000 for one day in a hospital. | ||
| Can you explain it? | ||
| Yeah, it's hard to comment on a specific bill. | ||
| And if that's Medicare or Medicaid and the hospital bill or what's in there. | ||
| Again, most hospital bills are really big, and the insurance does protect and insulate individuals, both Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance, from those high bills. | ||
| And without insurance, many people go into and face very high degrees of medical debt because they don't have an insurer that helps pay for those costs. | ||
| But I can't comment on that specific bill. | ||
| We have time for one last call. | ||
| We'll go to Robert in Virginia, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Robert. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| My question is about Medicaid. | ||
| When they mention the numbers for fraud, waste, and abuse, are they talking about over the lifetime of the program or this is something that's happened within a year? | ||
| And how much fraud, waste, and abuse has actually been identified and the money's been recouped? | ||
| Yeah, and that's a good question as well. | ||
| You know, so both states and the federal government oversee broad program integrity in the program. | ||
| So a lot of that is preventing fraud from happening in the first place. | ||
| So there's credentialing of providers and making sure that there's data analytics to look for weird billing patterns and trying to address fraud before it happens. | ||
| But then there's also Medicaid fraud units that go after potentially fraudulent activity in providers that may have occurred and recover those funds for the program. | ||
| So I think both things are going on. | ||
| Again, it is impossible to root out all fraud, I think, in Medicaid, Medicare, overall health care system, but there are a number of systems in place, both at the state and federal level, that are overseeing and doing audits of broader program integrity in the program. | ||
| Do we have an idea of when we could know more about potential cuts, what they look like, and also what are you going to be keeping your eye on between now and now and then? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Well, I think the next step is really what happens in the Senate because the budget resolution that the Senate passed doesn't match what happened in the House. | ||
| So I think the next step is to watch and keep an eye on what the Senate might do in taking up or looking at the House budget resolution. | ||
| And then if that is passed and if there are these broader targets, it would be the Senate Finance Committee in the Senate that would be working on the specific proposals and the Energy and Commerce Committee in the House. | ||
| We would need to watch over the next several months to see what policy proposals rise up in terms of the much more specifics and how the Congressional Budget Office, that scorekeeper in Washington, scores any of those policies in terms of meeting those overall targets. | ||
| Our guest, Robin Rudowitz, with KFF, you can find her work and more information online at kf.org. | ||
| Robin, thank you so much for being with us this morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you for having me. | |
| That does it for this morning's Washington Journal. | ||
| We'll be back tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern, 4 a.m. Pacific, with another program. | ||
| Until then, enjoy your night. | ||
| enjoy your day. | ||
|
unidentified
|
C-SPAN's Washington Journal, our live forum inviting you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy from Washington, D.C. to across the country. | |
| Coming up Sunday morning, syndicated columnist Cal Thomas will talk about recent Trump administration actions and bring us the news of the day. | ||
| And then former National Security Council European Affairs Director Alexander Vinman on his book, The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine. | ||
| C-SPAN's Washington Journal. | ||
| Join in the conversation live at 7 Eastern Sunday morning on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at c-SPAN.org. | ||
| Up next, a look at a heated exchange between President Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, and Vice President JD Vance in the White House Oval Office. | ||
| And then debate on the House floor before approval of a budget framework for President Trump's domestic policy agenda. | ||
| Later, live coverage of the pre-launch news conference for SPEREX, the agency's newest telescope, and its ride share, PUNCH, a mission to study the sun's solar winds. | ||
| This afternoon, NASA is holding a news conference to discuss the upcoming launch of two space missions aiming to better understand solar wind and distant stars and galaxies. | ||
| We'll have the news conference live from NASA TV at 3.30 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at c-SPAN.org. | ||
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| Buckeye Broadband supports C-SPAN as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. | ||
| A heated conversation broke out between President Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, and Vice President JD Vance in the White House Oval Office. | ||
| The confrontation occurred before a deal was supposed to be signed between Ukraine and the United States in which Ukraine would give the U.S. critical minerals in exchange for some unspecified help in dealing with Russia's invasion. | ||
| This is about 50 minutes. | ||
| Well, thank you very much. | ||
| It's an honor to have President Zelensky of Ukraine. | ||
| And we've been working very hard, very close. |