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unidentified
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Support C-SPAN as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy. | |
| Coming up on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, we'll take your calls and comments live. | ||
| Then the American Enterprise Institute's Frederick Hess and the Education Law Center's Robert Kim discuss the Trump administration and education policy. | ||
| And attorney Mark Zaid, who focuses on national security and federal employment, looks at current efforts to reduce the number of government workers. | ||
| Washington Journal starts now. | ||
| This is Washington Journal for Saturday, February 8th. | ||
| This week, federal judges temporarily blocked some of President Trump and Elon Musk's Doge efforts. | ||
| And the Senate confirmed two more members of President Trump's cabinets. | ||
| Also, President Trump signed more executive orders, including one banning transgender athletes from girls and women's sports. | ||
| Those are a few of the stories that made headlines this week. | ||
| And to start today's program, we want to hear from you. | ||
| What's your top news story of the week? | ||
| Here are the lines. | ||
| Republicans 202-748-8001. | ||
| Democrats 202-748-8000. | ||
| And Independents 202-748-8002. | ||
| You can text your comments to 202-748-8003. | ||
| Be sure to include your name and city. | ||
| You can also post a question or comment on Facebook at facebook.com slash C-SPAN or on X at C-SPANWJ. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| Thank you for being with us. | ||
| We'll get to your calls and comments in just a few moments. | ||
| But first, we want to give you some more information about some of the headlines that we've been following this week from overnight. | ||
| This headline from the Washington Post, federal judge blocks Musk's Doge from access to Treasury Department material. | ||
| The article says a federal judge issued an emergency order early Saturday prohibiting Elon Musk's U.S. Doge Service from accessing personal and financial data on millions of Americans kept at the Treasury Department, noting the possibility for irreparable harm. | ||
| U.S. District Judge Paul A. Inkelmayer decision ordered, also ordered Musk and his team to immediately destroy any and all copies of material downloaded from the Treasury Department's records and systems, if any. | ||
| The conditions are in place until another judge hears arguments on the matter on February 14th. | ||
| Says the ruling came hours after attorney generals from 19 states sued Musk's team from dealing with sensitive files during its review of federal payment systems, an unprecedented effort that skirted firm security measures and that permitted access to systems only to trained Treasury employees. | ||
| Also from the New York Times, this headline judge freezes elements of Trump's plan to shut down USAID. | ||
| It says, in part, a federal judge on Friday ordered the Trump administration to halt for now some elements of its attempts to shut down the U.S. Agency for International Development. | ||
| Judge Carl Nichols of the U.S. District Court, District Court for the District of Columbia, a 2019 Trump appointee, issued a restraining order pausing the imminent administrative leave of 2,200 USAID employees and a plan to withdraw nearly all of the agency's overseas workers within 30 days. | ||
| He also ordered the temporary reinstatement of 500 agency employees already on administrative leave. | ||
| The judge was ruling on a lawsuit filed on behalf of the largest union representing federal workers and the union that represents foreign service officers. | ||
| Judge Nichols said the union had established that the employees affected by the leave and withdrawal orders would suffer, quote, irreparable harm. | ||
| Judge Nichols ordered the pause in the administration's plans through next Friday to allow for expedited arguments to determine the legality of the actions and schedule another hearing for Wednesday. | ||
| Those actions happening, there is still more movement with USAID. | ||
| A couple tweets from reporters from Laura Barron-Lopez with PBS posting this photo saying USAID name is being covered with what looks like black duct tape on a sign outside of the Ronald Reagan building per photo shared by source. | ||
| And this one from Julia Jester with NBC. | ||
| It's a little hard to see, but she says currently, letter by letter, crews are removing the U.S. Agency for International Development Signage from its Washington HQ, a striking visual of the abrupt dismantling of USAID. | ||
| Yesterday, during a press conference with the Japan, Japanese prime minister, President Trump was asked about, was asked to respond to criticisms of Doge. | ||
| Here's some of his remarks. | ||
|
unidentified
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Mr. President, I wonder what you make of the criticism from Democrats that these staff reductions, the cuts that Elon Musk and Doge are doing are an unlawful power grab. | |
| Is there anything you've told Elon Musk he cannot touch? | ||
| Well, we haven't discussed that much. | ||
| I'll tell him to go here, go there. | ||
| He does it. | ||
| He's got a very capable group of people. | ||
| Very, very, very, very capable. | ||
| They know what they're doing. | ||
| They'll ask questions and they'll see immediately as somebody gets tongue-tied that they're either crooked or don't know what they're doing. | ||
| We have very smart people going in. | ||
| So I've instructed him to go into education, go into military, go into other things as we go along. | ||
| And they're finding massive amounts of fraud, abuse, waste, all of these things. | ||
| But I will pick out a target and I say go in. | ||
| There could be areas that we won't, but I think everything's fertile. | ||
| You know, we're a government. | ||
| We have to be open. | ||
| And as an open government, I don't know, I guess you could say maybe some high intelligence or something. | ||
| And I'll do that myself if I have to. | ||
| But generally speaking, I'll just say go. | ||
| But he will be looking at education pretty quickly, and he will be looking at military, too. | ||
| Doge efforts and the lawsuits filed in response. | ||
| Just one of his top stories that we are talking about this morning. | ||
| We want to hear from you and what your top story is. | ||
| Again, the lines, Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| We will start this morning with David in Inkster, Michigan, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, David. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| I'm going to make my comments real quick. | ||
| I think people need to get a grasp of understanding what's happening here. | ||
| Elon Musk has gotten Carp Blanc to go into the U.S. Treasury, looking at people's personal information, checking accounts, Faden's accounts, how much money they make, Social Security accounts, disability accounts. | ||
| TC has no business going into the U.S. Treasury. | ||
| And I know some of these Trump people are going to call in and agree with that, man. | ||
| Thompson, what's going on now in this country? | ||
| It's not right. | ||
| Elon Musk has no business with his 20 and 25-year-olds getting into the U.S. Treasury getting folks personal information. | ||
| But you know what? | ||
| This is what these guys voted for. | ||
| Good luck with Trump. | ||
| And thanks for taking the call. | ||
| This is my second time calling a C-SPAN, but people better understand what's going on here. | ||
| It's not good. | ||
| Thanks for taking the call. | ||
| We'll go to Jim in Bumpus, Virginia, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Jim. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| My top news story is the great job that Elon Musk and his crew is doing. | ||
| So far, just in a few days, they saved over $50 million to the United States taxpayers that are being robbed from the U.S. AD, where they're paying news organizations that are sitting in the White House defending Joe Biden, and they wonder why Trump wins in a landslide. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Albert in Kalamazoo, Michigan, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Albert. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, yeah. | |
| First, I got to correct that previous caller. | ||
| Trump didn't win in a landslide. | ||
| I think he won by, was it 1 million votes? | ||
| You know, he got 49% of the vote. | ||
| And it was under 50%. | ||
| And I think Hillary Clinton beat Trump by a larger margin, even though she didn't get the Electoral College in 2016. | ||
| But let me, my top news story would be the approval of Russell Vogt. | ||
| He was approved for Office of Management Budget. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| That is correct. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| I just want to make sure I got the right. | ||
| I know there's a lot of them. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, well, Office of Management Budget. | |
| So remember when we were debating about Project 2025? | ||
| And remember when Trump lied and said, I don't know anything about Project 2025. | ||
| We have nothing to do with it. | ||
| I've never run it. | ||
| I've never seen it. | ||
| I've hardly ever heard of it. | ||
| So Trump lied about that because Russell Vogt, it's my understanding. | ||
| Didn't Russell Volt write large portions of Project 25? | ||
| Can you fact-check that? | ||
| I mean, that was my impression. | ||
| He did. | ||
| Albert, I'll go ahead and I'll share this article. | ||
| It's from Roll Call. | ||
| The headline, Firebrand, Vote Confirmed is White House Budget Director. | ||
| And it says in part that Russ Vogt is a hard-charging fiscal and social conservative with a passion for downsizing government. | ||
| He became the budget director for the second time on Thursday when he was confirmed on a party line vote. | ||
| And he see, I'm trying to find the bit about him being included in the 2025 Project 2025, but he was one of, there we go. | ||
| He became a target. | ||
| The article says he became a target from the moment he was nominated months ago. | ||
| Democrats never forgave him for holding up aid to Ukraine during Trump's first term. | ||
| Their antagonism only grew during last year's campaign when Vogt helped author Project 2025, the Heritage Foundation's political playbook for how Republicans could overhaul the government. | ||
|
unidentified
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Exactly. | |
| Yeah, thank you for confirming that. | ||
| Just, I mean, so what that means is that money will be impounded. | ||
| And I'm talking to the Trumpers now in the audience there. | ||
| Russell Volt will break the law and impound money. | ||
| He doesn't care about breaking the law. | ||
| And so that means that he could block Medicaid. | ||
| He could block Medicare. | ||
| Maybe he could block Social Security. | ||
| He could block SNAP benefits, food stamps, daycare, federal health clinics. | ||
| So, I mean, If you look at a map, a lot of the red states are poor and they're getting federal aid and they're getting food stamps and Medicaid. | ||
| And Russell Vogt will break the law and impound the money. | ||
| I mean, that's what he's done in the past. | ||
| So, yeah, that was the most serious thing I think we had this week. | ||
| That was Albert in Michigan, Ed, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Ed. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, good morning. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| Yeah, I just want to say, I mean, as always, interesting tones for people's calls this morning. | ||
| Great cross-section, my fellow countrymen. | ||
| In terms of biggest news story of the week, I think mine personally is having a front seat to observe as the complete metastasization of the prion disease affecting my party takes a terminal state. | ||
| The gentleman who called and was trying to congratulate Elon Musk and his big ball boys for getting rid of $50 million in a couple of days. | ||
| How about this? | ||
| Get Congress in session, and I'll save a whole lot more money than that if you cut off the subsidies to Elon Musk. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| These people are performing an open smash and grab on our government. | ||
| Anybody who loves this country should be committed to making an investment that is concomitant with the worth of ourselves and our republic. | ||
| We should have the best people, like Trump promised, sitting at those desks waiting to answer them phones at Foggy Bottom and at the IRS and everywhere else. | ||
| These people don't want to spend money nowhere on nothing. | ||
| The only thing that Trump has ever promised us and delivered to him is that he was going to make hard times. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| And between him and Elon Musk, they can kick rocks barefoot. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I mean, it's Groundhog Day all over again. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| Let's hear from Jack in New Orleans, Louisiana, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Jack. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Yeah, this is, I've been watching this, and you know how Donald Trump tricked everybody when he said he was going to march to Washington? | ||
| I think what he's, he's a great manipulator, and I think what he's doing is he's getting rid of the Hispanics, and as people protest, they're going to end up in jail, and they're going to end up doing those black jobs he was talking about. | ||
| So my warning to everybody is to do not break the law. | ||
| Do like Martin Luther King, demonstrate peacefully. | ||
| Do not give them any reason to put you in jail because you will be doing those black jobs picking strawberries, cotton, and whatever else he wants you to do. | ||
| So that's all I got to say. | ||
| And you look lovely this morning. | ||
| That was Jack in Louisiana. | ||
| One of our callers, a couple callers ago, Albert, talking about the confirmation of Russ Vogt to be budget director. | ||
| Also confirmed this week was Pam Bondi to be Attorney General from the Associated Press. | ||
| It says that the vote fell almost entirely along party lines, with only Senator John Fetterman, a Pennsylvania Democrat, joining with all Republicans to pass her confirmation 54 to 46. | ||
| More confirmation hearings or votes will be held next week, including one for Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence and Robert F. Kennedy for Secretary of Health and Human Services, | ||
| mentioned that Senator Fetterman voted for, voted to confirm Pam Bondi from The Hill, this article saying that Fetterman says he'll vote against both RFK Jr. and Gabbard for their nominations next week. | ||
| It was during a hearing, or it was during an event last week, that Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pension Committee, explained why he will be voting yes for Kennedy. | ||
| Based on Mr. Kennedy's assurances on vaccines and his platform to positively influence Americans' health, it is my consideration that he will get this done. | ||
| As I've said, it's been a long and tense process, but I've assessed it as I would assess a patient as a physician. | ||
| Ultimately, restoring trust in our public health institution is too important, and I think Mr. Kennedy can help get that done. | ||
| As chairman of the Senate Committee with oversight authority of his position, I will do my best to make sure that that is what we accomplish. | ||
|
unidentified
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I want Mr. Kennedy to succeed in making America healthy again. | |
| His success will be tied to the health of our nation. | ||
| He has the opportunity to address the most pertinent issues affecting Americans' health. | ||
| We also need to reform institutions like FDA and NIH, and those, as already been indicated, are my priorities as chairman of the Health Committee. | ||
|
unidentified
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I look forward to his support in accomplishing this. | |
| If confirmed, I look forward to working together with Mr. Kennedy to achieve President Trump's mission of improving the health of all Americans. | ||
|
unidentified
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And with that, I yield. | |
| Back to your calls, hearing what your top news story of the week is. | ||
| We'll go to Gene in Louisville, Kentucky, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Gene. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes. | |
| Federal agents are pedophiles. | ||
| They are seror rapists. | ||
| They do a whole lot of stuff in the field. | ||
| Up at Washington, they have sex illegally and willing anytime they want. | ||
| They need to shut down the CIA or the FBI. | ||
| They need to shut down something because they are corrupt. | ||
| Trump was right. | ||
| They are corrupt. | ||
| He's been in there for four years and he's doing four more years. | ||
| He knows how corrupt they are. | ||
| He knows. | ||
| I mean, when you have little kids, you rape little kids and then say, join the FBI for telling little kids, join the FBI after you rape them for 10 or 20, 10 or 15 years. | ||
| Be like, that's all I have to say about that. | ||
| We'll go to Danny in Denver, Colorado, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Danny. | ||
|
unidentified
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I'd sure like to see Senator Whitehouse run for the presidency. | |
| The Republicans cannot be trusted anymore. | ||
| You can see they're dismantling our government, taking it apart. | ||
| You can see that when they negotiate a deal, they remake on the deal. | ||
| We had something for the immigrants, and the Republicans refused or shut it down after it already being negotiated. | ||
| You look at what the Republicans did when they took Obama's Supreme Court picks away from him. | ||
| They've hijacked our. | ||
| We know that 2025 Project Trump has lied about it. | ||
| And I used to think Trump was the Antichrist, but it's actually Elon Musk. | ||
| Dave in Adriana, Michigan, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Dave. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, sir, ma'am, ma'am, excuse me, for taking my call. | |
| I listen to C-SPAN every morning with the Washington Journal. | ||
| I find it very informative. | ||
| My item for the week, this USAID. | ||
| This is something that is really interesting that's come out, which is something has never done before with the government, is telling where our money is going and who is accountable for. | ||
| We, the people, it's our money. | ||
| And I think it's really great that we're finally getting somebody in there to run the government other than the people that have been there 20, 30 years and stuff. | ||
| But it's really, it's a good thing that they're doing this. | ||
| The biggest, biggest thing out of everything that they're doing is they're getting it out to the public as to what's going on and making our government accountable. | ||
| This is something I think is really needed for we the people. | ||
| So I appreciate you. | ||
| I love to listen to C-SPAN. | ||
| I watch all of your investigations that they have on the other channels and stuff like that too. | ||
| I love to listen to the hearings and get the rest of the story. | ||
| I think one of the biggest things with the American people is you don't educate yourself. | ||
| Read and listen to what other people have to say. | ||
| That's what I like about the Morning Journal is the fact that you get other opinions and stuff like that. | ||
| And what their reasons behind it. | ||
| You know, everybody, this is one of the freedoms of the United States is being able to express your opinion. | ||
| And I feel that's really a big thing that we need to do. | ||
| So thank you again. | ||
| You guys all do a good job. | ||
| Dave, thanks for being a C-SPAN fan and appreciating our mission. | ||
| We will go to Dorothy, I believe it's Dorothy in Vegas, Las Vegas, Nevada, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Dorothy. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes, hi. | |
| I just wanted to share with the viewers that when I was listening to C-SPAN's coverage of Maxine Waters and the Democrats at the Department of Education, they looked okay. | ||
| I'm sorry about this, but they looked a little guilty. | ||
| They were so upset when there's only an audit going on. | ||
| So that's just was, I just wanted to share that that was my opinion. | ||
| They just looked too upset when, just like the caller from Michigan was saying, we want transparency. | ||
| We want to know where all of our money is going. | ||
| So anyway, just wanted to share that. | ||
| Have a wonderful day. | ||
| That was Dorothy in Nevada. | ||
| We'll go to Bill in Brunswick, Ohio, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Bill. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, hi. | |
| But Elon and all that, I was wondering, everybody's worried about their info being released. | ||
| Why does the government have that info to begin with to be released? | ||
| If there was no income tax, the government would not need to know your information. | ||
| If we had a national sales tax, everybody would pay taxes. | ||
| And that's just my thoughts. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bill, I think some of the information is also tied to Social Security, Medicaid, those types of programs. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay, yeah, no, that stuff should be private through HIPAA and all that. | |
| That was Bill in Ohio. | ||
| Sheila, also in Ohio, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Sheila. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| I'm listening to everybody else's comments. | ||
| And first of all, there is no mandate because we had so much voter suppression to begin with. | ||
| He did not win by a landslide. | ||
| Anybody needs, everybody needs to watch that movie by Greg Palast, Vigilante Incorporated. | ||
| And they'll see that Kamala should have won. | ||
| But now we've got oligarchs in charge, and they're dismantling everything. | ||
| And it's a coup that's plain and simple to see. | ||
| So if the Democrats are not going to stand up and put a stop to this, I don't know if they're in cahoots with it or not, then fine. | ||
| Let it all fall. | ||
| Let everybody stand in a soup line. | ||
| And then maybe we'll get some social justice in this country. | ||
| And that's all I got to say. | ||
| Now, Sheila in Ohio. | ||
| Another story from this week. | ||
| The headline from the Associated Press: Trump signs executive order intended to bar transgender athletes from girls and women's sports. | ||
| The article says that he signed the executive order on Wednesday. | ||
| And the order titled Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports gives federal agencies wide latitude to ensure entities that receive federal funding abide by Title IX in alignment with the Trump administration's view, which interprets sex as the gender someone was assigned at birth. | ||
| It was Wednesday, just before President Trump signed that order that he spoke. | ||
| Here's some of those remarks. | ||
| With my action this afternoon, we're putting every school receiving taxpayer dollars on notice that if you let men take over women's sports teams or invade your locker rooms, you will be investigated for violations of Title IX and risk your federal funding. | ||
| will be no federal funding. | ||
| So this will effectively end the attack on female athletes at public K-12 schools and virtually all U.S. colleges and universities. | ||
| I don't think we've missed anything, but if we do, we'll make it up very quickly with an order. | ||
| We're just about through the first hour of this morning's Washington Journal. | ||
| Our question to you, your top news story of the week will go to Lewis in Salisbury, North Carolina, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Lewis. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| You know, it's a shame how some people's heart can be so cold concerning the USDID. | ||
| You know, charity covers a multitude of sin, and we do know America have a lot of sin. | ||
| But to give things to people in need and to stop it because you're worrying about where the money, you got to look at how the process is working. | ||
| They're not doing it lawfully. | ||
| They're doing it unlawfully. | ||
| They're doing it to a way that you have to have court orders to do these things. | ||
| There's no more rules and regulations when it comes to President Musk. | ||
| President Trump is going to say, I didn't have nothing to do with it. | ||
| It was all his doing. | ||
| And concerning the DEI, can I say something about that? | ||
| There is on the labor board area concerning the DEI recipients. | ||
| And there's like five, six categories. | ||
| And the very first one on that list is white women. | ||
| The second one on that list is CEO white men's. | ||
| And then it goes down to Hispanics. | ||
| It goes to Native American. | ||
| Then gays and disability. | ||
| And you know the last one on that? | ||
| It's African American. | ||
| And the first thing that Trump said when that plane, that helicopter hit that plane, oh, they must have been DEI. | ||
| Have you heard anything else about that? | ||
| He found out that they was all white pilots and he shut his mouth. | ||
| People get ready. | ||
| Buckle up. | ||
| Chaos is begin even more. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Lewis in North Carolina. | ||
| Rick, Nashville, Tennessee, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Rick. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| There's so much to cover when you watch C-SPAN. | ||
| But I want to say one thing. | ||
| I'm 70 years old. | ||
| My mother raised two boys. | ||
| She had to move from a little town to a city to find work. | ||
| She's about to turn 90. | ||
| She never got on Welfare or Food Stamps and she never had anybody to help her with anything. | ||
| Some help would have been nice, but she didn't believe in that. | ||
| And when you look at all the money that's being spent, whether you think it's a good thing or a bad thing, but money spent outside this country, whether it's all the things you've seen listed, Elon Musk and what he's doing, whether you think it's right or wrong, is irrelevant. | ||
| But I want you to think about that. | ||
| My dad left my mom when we were eight and nine years old, never to return. | ||
| And when she had to raise two little boys and work three jobs, and she came out of it by hard work and saving her money and not getting what she wanted, but only what she needed. | ||
| And I would like to see some of that money go towards the teenager that got pregnant, the young woman who had to raise kids because the young man wasn't there. | ||
| I want to see that money go to helping food stamps and welfare, people who truly need it in this country. | ||
| That woman is left now that's 60 or 70 or 80 years old that's only living on $600 to $1,500 Social Security and that's all she's got. | ||
| And the government tells her she makes too much money to get qualified for any benefits from the government, whether it be city, county, state, or federal level. | ||
| And when that's your mother or your grandmother and you're having to see them struggle because of their plight and lies, that's who I want to help. | ||
| So when you look at all the money going around the world and all the crooked politicians, the crooked businessmen, whomever it may be, you may like them, you may dislike them, but at the end of the day, when it's your mother, your grandmother, and they're having to struggle on just a pittance of income every day, that's where we're, that's where our God, with whoever you believe, that's who we need to be helping. | ||
| Because those people are just wasting this money that could be going toward our indigenous in this country. | ||
| So whether you're black, white, of any ethnic background, you need to be concerned about those that are elderly, that can't work anymore, that won't be hired by any corporate company because they're too old to work or they're hurt or they're having medical problems or they've had to file bankruptcy. | ||
| That's who we need to help, not the ones that's out here just feeding off the system. | ||
| And when that stopped, then we can all come together as one people because America is great. | ||
| We have all ethnic backgrounds in this country. | ||
| And that's a good thing. | ||
| And go to another country and see what happens. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was Rick in Tennessee, William in Ruston, Louisiana. | ||
| Line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, William. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I agree totally with a gentleman from Tennessee. | ||
| The big thing, but my question is, I mean, my first comment is: God didn't make any mistakes. | ||
| I totally agree with Trump and everybody with a gender deal. | ||
| Second thing is, our Republican senator down here, Mr. Cassidy, is going to have a hard time getting reelected because I've heard him several times and several other ones, and I think it ought to be investigated totally more than a lot of other stuff going on is Social Security. | ||
| How many billions and billions of dollars have they taken out of our Social Security out of our retirement fund that's supposed to be our retirement? | ||
| That's the reason why our Social Security is so low. | ||
| Can anybody in the United States, I don't care how the situation is, live on $1,688 a month with three people in the household? | ||
| There's no way possible. | ||
| It's just, our house is too far, and it's still barely, barely, barely getting by. | ||
| With the prices going up the way they are, everybody wants to blame Trump for the prices of eggs and everything. | ||
| Biden's the one that had the chickens killed. | ||
| And if you look back on history, it takes two to four years to overcome what the last president done. | ||
| Have a nice day and appreciate everything you're doing. | ||
| Let's hear from Donald in Golden Valley, Arizona, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Donald. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning out there. | |
| You know why he's doing all this stuff, don't you? | ||
| You know why he's getting all this government money. | ||
| He wants to give all of these rich buddies a big tax break. | ||
| And I'll tell you one thing, too: this information that Elon Musk is getting, it's worth millions to one of our enemy governments overseas. | ||
| And I'll tell you what, all you people out there that want to be a flunky for Trump, he's going to throw you under the bus just like he's done all the people who's worked for him and done everything for him. | ||
| So just a warning. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| That was Donald in Arizona. | ||
| One of the other stories making headlines this week is efforts to fund the government. | ||
| This headline from ABC News: House GOP rushing to produce Trump's big budget bill with tax program cuts. | ||
| It says that House Republicans are working overtime after a lengthy White House meeting to meet President Donald Trump's demands for a big budget package. | ||
| That includes some $3 trillion in tax breaks, massive program cuts, and possible extension of the nation's debt limit. | ||
| Speaker Mike Johnson had GOP lawmakers working late into the night ahead of a self-imposed Friday deadline to produce the package after having blown past an earlier timeline, earlier timeline to draft the contours of a bill that would begin making its long journey through Congress to the president's desk. | ||
| It says Trump's message as he popped in and out of the nearly five-hour meeting Thursday at the White House was simple, get it done. | ||
| It was yesterday that House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries responded to a question about where the budget negotiations stand. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Earlier today, Speaker Mike Johnson said that Democrats have been unresponsive over the last couple of days with respect to government funding negotiations. | |
| Can you update us on where things stand? | ||
| What's your response? | ||
| Projection. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm sorry, can you clarify that? | |
| Because he's alleging that Democrats are trying to set up a potential. | ||
| Rosa, first of all, first of all, first of all, Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the presidency. | ||
| They have every vote that they need as we've been lectured to do whatever the heck they want to the American people. | ||
| Let's be clear about that. | ||
| It's not Democrats saying that, that's Republicans. | ||
| That's the whole idea behind the so-called budget reconciliation process. | ||
| Republicans have told America repeatedly, we can do whatever we want because we control the House, the Senate, and the presidency. | ||
| Republicans have been saying that. | ||
| So I think my initial response, projection, should speak for itself in that context. | ||
| But what also is clear, as Rosa DeLauro has stated publicly, Democrats continue to negotiate with our Republican colleagues. | ||
| We want to find Bipartisan common ground in funding the government to meet the needs of the American people. | ||
| Rosa DeLauro, who was leading our effort as a top Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, has been trying to get Republicans to respond to her for weeks. | ||
| Weeks. | ||
| In fact, she's had the opportunity to actually speak with Senate Democrats and Senate Republicans. | ||
| It's projection. | ||
| We want to find bipartisan common ground. | ||
| We are working hard to reach a spending agreement that meets the needs of the American people in advance of March 14th. | ||
| I'm hopeful that Republicans are actually willing now to sit down at the table and reach a spending agreement in the best interests of the American people, not in the best interests of their billionaire donors. | ||
| More on efforts to fund the government, this headline from the New York Times. | ||
| The Senate GOP unveils its own budget plan, teeing up a fight with the House. | ||
| The article says that Senator Lindsey Graham on Friday unveiled a budget plan that would increase spending for the military and border security measures in a move aimed at expediting President Trump's agenda as House Republicans remained divided over their own massive fiscal package. | ||
| Mr. Graham, Republican of South Carolina and the chairman of the budget committee, has long argued that congressional Republicans should pass Mr. Trump's domestic agenda in two bills: one that could be quickly passed to take early action on border security and defense, and another measure extending the 2017 tax cuts. | ||
| That approach has been largely rejected by the House, with top Republicans arguing that their razor-thin majority has left them with the political capital to only pass one bill. | ||
| House GOP leaders have been laboring in recent weeks to put together a huge legislative package taxing cuts, slashing spending, and slowing immigration that can win the support of the entire conference. | ||
| But with House Republicans divided over issues, Mr. Graham announced that Senate Republicans who will dine with Mr. Trump on Friday at Mar-a-Lago would not wait for their colleagues across the Capitol to get their act together. | ||
| Back to your calls asking your top news story of the week. | ||
| We'll go next to Rick in Gaffney, South Carolina, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Rick. | ||
| Rick, are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Hi, Rick. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, what I'd like to see is must go after the Republican senators and the congressmen and investigate them and their kickbacks that they're getting and the fraud waste that they do. | |
| Also, the Democrats, too, and must to go in Trump's backyard and investigate him. | ||
| He's already been convicted of fraud. | ||
| So, you know, that's the way I feel about it. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| I love C-SPAN. | ||
| That was Rick in South Carolina. | ||
| Raquel in Roseville. | ||
| I'm sorry, Roselle, New Jersey, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Raquel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| Everything that's been happening this week, I know that there's been a lot of chaos, you know, with Donald Trump and Doge and Elon Musk. | ||
| I think what Elon Musk is doing is amazing. | ||
| This needs to be exposed. | ||
| He is not taking personal data. | ||
| He's doing an audit, okay? | ||
| And the Democratic Party is freaking out. | ||
| Like, you're going, you know, to the Board of You're going to the Education Department and you're screaming outside, demanding to come in. | ||
| But what happened? | ||
| Like, decades and decades, they never went there and worried about our school system. | ||
| They didn't care. | ||
| They didn't go there and make this scene. | ||
| And you're sitting there screaming. | ||
| Why are they so going so crazy? | ||
| This rhetoric is what caused President Trump's life to be almost taken. | ||
| This rhetoric is unacceptable to the Democratic Party. | ||
| You don't see the Republicans screaming, yelling. | ||
| Like, this is crazy. | ||
| They lost. | ||
| They need to accept it. | ||
| And we all need to come together to make America better. | ||
| It's not, it's like cat and dogs. | ||
| You can't get along. | ||
| You can't, you know, work together. | ||
| Both parties need to come to an agreement. | ||
| We need to make this country better. | ||
| You lost. | ||
| The Democratics need to take the fact that they lost. | ||
| President Trump is elected president right now. | ||
| He didn't pardon anybody, but let's talk about Biden. | ||
| He pardoned a whole lot of people and his entire family. | ||
| They are looking so guilty. | ||
| Why are you guys going so crazy? | ||
| He's only auditing. | ||
| I don't care if Elon Musk goes into my taxes and see. | ||
| I want to know where my money went. | ||
| I want to know what the government is spending my money. | ||
| I would love to know. | ||
| So what they're doing is amazing. | ||
| Continue doing. | ||
| 80% of Americans are for everything that Donald Trump and Elon Musk is doing. | ||
| Less than 20% is on the Democratic side. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| They need to stop acting like the way they're acting because they're just losing their minds. | ||
| We're going to win. | ||
| Like, Chuck Schumer Sooner, we're going to win. | ||
| We got to fight. | ||
| You got to fight. | ||
| You are just starting a rhetoric to cause chaos, to cause protesting, violence that we do not need. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You don't see that happening with the Republican Party, but you do see it with the Democrats. | ||
| Why are you guys losing your minds so bad? | ||
| What is so bad? | ||
| Because the corrupted people don't want to be exposed. | ||
| I need to see who is all these corrupted people. | ||
| The American people. | ||
| Got your point, Raquel. | ||
| We'll show you this headline from the Washington Post. | ||
| Americans flood lawmakers with calls about Musk. | ||
| It says that senators' phone systems have been overloaded. | ||
| Lawmakers said, with some voters unable to get through to leave a message. | ||
| It says that Senator Lisa McKowski, Republican of Alaska, said the Senate's phones were receiving 1,600 calls each minute compared with the usual 40 calls per minute. | ||
| Many of the calls she's been receiving are from people concerned about U.S. Doge service employees having broad access to government systems and sensitive information. | ||
| The callers are asking whether their information is compromised and about why there isn't more transparency about what's happening, she said. | ||
| It also says it's a deluge. | ||
| It's a deluge on Dodge, said Senator Tina Smith, Democrat of Minnesota. | ||
| Truly, our offices have gotten more phone calls on Elon Musk and what the heck he's doing mucking around in federal government than I think I've ever, than I've gotten in 10 years. | ||
| People are really angry. | ||
| The article also says lawmakers, including Republicans, have asked for clarity from the White House about the scope of Musk's team's access to data, including classified and personal information this week. | ||
| Some also expressed confusion about what is going on. | ||
| Just about 15 minutes left in this first hour asking what is your top news story of the week. | ||
| We'll go next to Denny in Columbus, South, or I'm sorry, Columbus, Ohio, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Danny. | ||
| Denny, sorry. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Hi, Denny. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| You hear me okay? | ||
| Yes, I do. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| The big top story to me was what Trump has plans for the Gaza Strip. | ||
| And I would say that this is a movie that as a country we've seen before. | ||
| It's called Occupation. | ||
| And it has worked out so well. | ||
| Bar Senator Rock or I've been going back to Vietnam. | ||
| And the idea that we would occupy the Gaza Strip is just, I can't understand it. | ||
| Well, thank you very much. | ||
| That's Denny in Ohio. | ||
| Shaz in Nevada, Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Shaz. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, good morning. | |
| Before I get to my top news story, I will C-SPAN to do, if you could please do a story on federal subsidies that go to corporations. | ||
| I can tell you that since 2000, over $100 billion, that's B as a boy, billion dollars have gone to corporations. | ||
| And if Elon Musk wants to save some money, he could start right there with some low-hanging fruit. | ||
| But my top news story is Russ Bolt. | ||
| Russ Bolt, if you could play the video of him where he says he wants to traumatize employees so bad that they don't want to come to work, well, people are already being traumatized. | ||
| I've received phone calls of people crying. | ||
| People from USAD have been abandoned where they couldn't call the government. | ||
| They couldn't hit their panic button. | ||
| Russ Bolt said, get in their faces. | ||
| Well, let me tell you something. | ||
| You're going to get in the face of the wrong one. | ||
| You've got people working for the federal government with PTSD. | ||
| They've killed people in wars. | ||
| They've seen people get killed. | ||
| You've got people with schizophrenia, bipolar. | ||
| They are only getting by because they love their jobs and they're on medication. | ||
| This is not going to end well. | ||
| This constantly threatening people. | ||
| There's a woman in the state working in the state office. | ||
| They cut up the LIHEAP for heating expenditures. | ||
| Now, a judge said to turn that money back on, but they're ignoring the judge's order. | ||
| And they told her that she better not say anything and better not speak ill of Elon Musk. | ||
| All of this, you can look, AP, Reuters, all this stuff is out there. | ||
| But I'm telling you, this threatening people, this is not going to end well. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Nobody's going to probably do anything to him, you know, like in the office. | ||
| But you have some folks who are not wrapped too tight. | ||
| And I'm telling you, they're messing with some people, you know, their minds, military folks, past military. | ||
| This is bad. | ||
| But that's my top news story. | ||
| I thank you for my time. | ||
| Now the Shaz in Nevada will go to Stephen in Santee, California, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Stephen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, where do we start here? | |
| With Donald Trump, four years prior, well, truthfully, at the end, even during his term, his first term, all he did was lie. | ||
| They counted like 4,000 lies. | ||
| And here we go again. | ||
| We're at it again. | ||
| The thing is that the Democrats and the people who are being affected, and it's everybody, because the people in the Red States have voted for this guy, and he's taken away some of their ability to even survive. | ||
| They need to be on the phone with your congressman. | ||
| I spent my time with Darrell Issa leaving messages, hoping I get a response. | ||
| But when you're dealing with a congressman, it's the richest guy in this Congress with $460 million. | ||
| It's kind of difficult to even get an answer. | ||
| I'll wait to see if I get one. | ||
| The thing about Gaza, that's another occupation. | ||
| I'm an ex-Vietnam veteran. | ||
| I spent three tours in Vietnam. | ||
| It wasn't a pleasant place. | ||
| And what is going to happen is if they have, if his intent is to make it a Riviera, he would have to put troops in there. | ||
| And that would be sitting ducks because look what happens to the Jews right now. | ||
| They're surrounded by Muslims. | ||
| That was a big mistake in 1946 to give them that territory. | ||
| The only reason they gave it to him was because of the holy lands that are there for all religions. | ||
| But look, look what's going on. | ||
| And now Netanyahu and Trump are partnered up again, and it's going to be nothing but problems over in the Middle East again. | ||
| And I don't see Saudi Arabia and the rest of these, who are supposedly friends of the United States, being happy about this. | ||
| I appreciate you taking my phone call. | ||
| That was Stephen in California. | ||
| And Stephen, and another caller earlier this morning talking about Gaza, this headline from The Hill, Trump says Gaza will be given to U.S. by Israel. | ||
| The article says that President Trump on Friday asserted that Gaza will be given to the U.S. by Israel, expanding on his plan for an American takeover of the war-torn region that he suggests involves the permanent relocation of Palestinians. | ||
| The controversial proposal stands to upend decades of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. | ||
| It says when asked of the proposal on Friday, the president told reporters that Gaza, quote, will be given to us by Israel and said that his proposal to take responsibility for the Gaza Strip currently under Hamas control has been very well received. | ||
| From Tuesday, here is President Trump alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu making the announcing his plans for Gaza. | ||
| I also strongly believe that the Gaza Strip, which has been a symbol of death and destruction for so many decades and so bad for the people anywhere near it, and especially those who live there, and frankly, who's been really very unlucky. | ||
| It's been very unlucky. | ||
| It's been an unlucky place for a long time. | ||
| Being in its presence just has not been good. | ||
| And it should not go through a process of rebuilding and occupation by the same people that have really stood there and fought for it and lived there and died there and lived a miserable existence there. | ||
| Instead, we should go to other countries of interest with humanitarian hearts, and there are many of them that want to do this and build various domains that will ultimately be occupied by the 1.8 million Palestinians living in Gaza, ending the death and destruction and frankly bad luck. | ||
| This could be paid for by neighboring countries of great wealth. | ||
| It could be one, two, three, four, five, seven, eight, twelve. | ||
| It could be numerous sites or it could be one large site, but the people will be able to live in comfort and peace and will make sure something really spectacular is done. | ||
| They're going to have peace. | ||
| They're not going to be shot at and killed and destroyed like this civilization of wonderful people has had to endure. | ||
| The only reason the Palestinians want to go back to Gaza is they have no alternative. | ||
| It's right now a demolition site. | ||
| This is just a demolition site. | ||
| Virtually every building is down. | ||
| They're living under fallen concrete that's very dangerous and very precarious. | ||
| They instead can occupy all of a beautiful area with homes and safety and they can live out their lives in peace and harmony instead of having to go back and do it again. | ||
| The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too. | ||
| We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings, level it out, create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area. | ||
| Do a real job, do something different. | ||
| Just can't go back. | ||
| If you go back, it's going to end up the same way it has for 100 years. | ||
| I'm hopeful that this ceasefire could be the beginning of a larger and more enduring peace that will end the bloodshed and killing once and for all. | ||
| With the same goal in mind, my administration has been moving quickly to restore trust in the alliance and rebuild American strength throughout the region. | ||
| And we've really done that. | ||
| We're a respected nation again. | ||
| A lot's happened in the last couple of weeks. | ||
| We are actually a very respected nation again. | ||
| About seven minutes left in this first hour taking your calls and asking what your top news story of the week is. | ||
| We'll go next to Mike in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Mike. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks for taking my call. | |
| Yeah, I'd love to hear foreign policy from America's number one independent tax loser of all time and our commander-in-chief. | ||
| And I love to wake up every day and hear these folks talk about military spending as if it's unimpeachable and argue about government funding while some ketamine adult bozo who's unelected and fails in every business he takes his hand in and is basically scaled upwards the same as Trump basically continues to cut our government to the bone and just basically enact some sort of sick fantasy on everybody. | ||
| This is absurd. | ||
| Listen to this man. | ||
| He just called a genocide bad luck. | ||
| We do ask our callers to watch their language. | ||
| We know there's a lot of passion out there, but we still want to be respectful. | ||
| We'll go to Valerie in St. Louis, Missouri, Line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Valerie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, good morning. | |
| Can you hear me? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Hi, Valerie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, thank you so much, thank you so much for taking my calls on Cease Staying and thank you for what you're doing. | |
| My top story was when I read about Senator Cassidy from Louisiana. | ||
| And he was talking about, he was talking about how he was not going to confirm JFK. | ||
| And then he went to a scripture of Joshua and he talked about the courage. | ||
| Then I read that he, I think he met with JD Vance and he met with President, I mean, you know, JD Vance and some other people. | ||
| And he said that they promised that JFK was going to do AB and C and whatever he was going to do. | ||
| I sent him a message. | ||
| And what I saw in Senator Cassidy, I mean, yes, Senator Cassidy, was his heart. | ||
| And my concern in all of this, as I've been watching, I've always been attuned to what's going on. | ||
| And in my prayer, I'm saying, God, what are you saying? | ||
| What I am seeing is the heart of America. | ||
| Everybody said during the election, it wasn't about them versus us, it was about our country. | ||
| And my neighbors, and where I live here in St. Louis, no matter whether they're black, white, Republicans, Democrats, they're concerned that one of my neighbors was crying on my shoulder, saying she didn't know where, you know, what is this country? | ||
| We are America and we're patriots. | ||
| And my concern with Senator Kennedy Cassidy is when I know I've been praying for God to touch the heart of their people. | ||
| And I have told him and others in Congress. | ||
| If anyone hears, I sent a letter to the wife, to Trump, to Johnson, to the senators. | ||
| We're not going to be accountable to one another. | ||
| We're going to be accountable to God, our Creator, no matter what your religion, your preference, it's the heart. | ||
| And they got to him and changed his heart. | ||
| It's not that we don't like, it's not about liking President Trump. | ||
| It's not about liking Judging MACA. | ||
| It's about our country. | ||
| And what I don't know, what we don't know, is what it is that they're holding over their head. | ||
| Are their eyes blinded? | ||
| When I hear President Trump talk, I was one of the biggest advocates of, you know, we pray for our president. | ||
| We pray for our government. | ||
| It's about his heart, the hatred and the lawlessness and the evangelical that stands with him. | ||
| What God are you serving? | ||
| So, Valerie, we'll leave it there. | ||
| We want to get a couple more calls in. | ||
| We'll go to Gina in Pikayun, Mississippi, Lion for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Gina. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Before I forget it, I would like to point out to all of the people who are always calling in and talking about the tax cuts that they didn't get one, and it's all given to the top people. | ||
| I'd like to point out that 50% of the nation pays no, and I mean no, zero federal tax. | ||
| So if you don't pay any federal tax, you don't get a tax cut. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Please try to remember that. | ||
| Do a little studying and see what you're saying. | ||
| Second of all, I want to say that about five calls ago, the last Republican call that was taken, I agree with everything that lady said. | ||
| Anybody who does pay taxes in this country should want an investigation to what is happening to all of our money. | ||
| It is absolutely telling when you object to that. | ||
| I mean, it means that your main goal is the hatred of Trump and not the good of the United States of America because we are $37 trillion in debt and eventually all of these freebies that we're giving out, even Medicare and Medicaid, will come to an end because we will be out of money bankrupt. | ||
| And that's all I have to say this morning. | ||
| I wish everybody well, and thank you very much. | ||
| Gina in Mississippi will go to Diana in Matthews, Virginia, Line for Independence. | ||
| Good morning, Gina. | ||
| Or I'm sorry, Diana. | ||
| Oh, we lost her. | ||
| We'll go to Deborah, South Bend, Indiana, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Deborah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| In my world, this is what we're concerned about. | ||
| Now, when President Trump first came on, no one really understood how things would work out for him because not any of us knew anything about trusting the government. | ||
| We already was a little dissatisfied with the government. | ||
| But after seeing everything that they sent him through, and he got back in the second term, in my world, all we want him to do, overhaul every agency that has to be in his company, that has to work with him, who has to protect him. | ||
| Donald Trump does not walk around with a weapon. | ||
| Those people have a G at the back of his head. | ||
| Who can he trust unless he overhaul everyone in that government agency? | ||
| They all have to be replaced. | ||
| We don't trust them, and he don't trust them. | ||
| We got to fix that trust. | ||
| If we don't fix that trust, trying to keep somebody that's been there, it's not going to work. | ||
| Because in my world, we don't trust not any of them. | ||
| That was Deborah in Indiana in our last call in this portion of the program. | ||
| Sandra in New Hampshire, Line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Sandra. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Hi, Sandra. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I have a couple of questions and an opinion. | |
| I keep listening to the Republicans saying that why isn't this a good thing? | ||
| It is a good thing that we should look into where our money is going. | ||
| However, I don't think they realize that it has to be done through Congress. | ||
| You can't just make up a agency without votes from Congress. | ||
| Am I right? | ||
| I could be wrong. | ||
| Also, I'm concerned about PBS and NPR. | ||
| I believe that he wants to cut funding for that. | ||
| I think that's suppression. | ||
| And I'm not sure why Republicans are saying that the Democrats are all up in arms. | ||
| I mean, that's what this country is. | ||
| We get to speak our opinions. | ||
| And we listen to Republicans and Democrats. | ||
| I agree a lot with the Republican policies. | ||
| I also agree a lot with Democratic policies. | ||
| But we have to do this the way the Constitution Says we should do it. | ||
| And once you rescind on our Constitution, it's not America anymore. | ||
| Thank you for taking my call. | ||
| It was my first call. | ||
| Have a good day. | ||
| Sandra, first call in to C-SPAN, our last call for this hour. | ||
| But next on Washington Journal, two perspectives on education policy and President Trump's plans to dismantle the Education Department. | ||
| Rick Hess of the American Enterprise Institute and Robert Kim of the Education Law Center will join us for that discussion. | ||
| And later, a conversation with Mark Zade, an attorney who specializes in national security and federal law employment, will discuss the Trump administration's efforts to reduce the federal workforce and what legal protections the workers have. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
American History TV, exploring the people and events that tell the American story. | |
| This weekend, historians discuss President Lincoln's views on race and slavery. | ||
| Then we'll talk with four new media creators on sharing history topics on TikTok, YouTube, podcasts, and Substack. | ||
| Watch American History TV's series First 100 Days as we look at the start of presidential terms. | ||
| This week, we focus on the early months of President Andrew Jackson's first term in 1829, including his policy agenda and controversies surrounding his cabinet. | ||
| And on lectures and history, Louisiana State University journalism professor John Maxwell Hamilton talks about the U.S. government propaganda efforts during World War I. Exploring the American story, watch American History TV every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/slash history. | ||
| Book TV, every Sunday on C-SPAN 2, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. | ||
| Here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. | ||
| At 6:15 p.m. Eastern, Angela Merkel, who served as German Chancellor from 2005 to 2021, discusses her memoir, Freedom, with former President Barack Obama. | ||
| And at 8 p.m. Eastern, former Georgetown law professor Ilya Shapiro argues that there's a decline of intellectual diversity, academic freedom, and civil discourse at elite law schools, creating a climate of intolerance. | ||
| He's the author of the book, Lawless. | ||
| Then at 10 p.m. Eastern on Afterwards, Omo Moses, son of civil rights organizer Robert Moses and author of the book The White Peril, talks about being black in America through the voices of three generations of the Moses family. | ||
| He's interviewed by University of Maryland Baltimore County Emeritus President Freeman Rabowski. | ||
| Watch Book TV every Sunday on C-SPAN 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. | ||
| Democracy. | ||
| It isn't just an idea. | ||
| It's a process. | ||
| A process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. | ||
| It's where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. | ||
| Democracy in real time. | ||
| This is your government at work. | ||
| This is C-SPAN, giving you your democracy unfiltered. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Joining us now to discuss the Trump administration and education policy is Rick Hess. | ||
| He's a senior. | ||
| He is Education Policy Studies Senior Fellow and Director at American Enterprise Institute. | ||
| And Robert Kim, Education Law Center Executive Director. | ||
| Robert and Rick, thank you so much for joining us today. | ||
| Good to be with you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Likewise. | |
| Rick, I know that you have joined us on the program before. | ||
| Remind our audience about AEI and your work there. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I'm a director of education policy studies at AEI. | ||
| Started out, and this is a very long time ago as a high school teacher, then a college professor. | ||
| AEI is a think tank which deals with a whole range of issues. | ||
| Our core values relate to opportunity, promoting civil society, and generally supporting constitutional and limited government. | ||
| And Bob, you are Executive Director of the Education Law Center. | ||
| Tell us about the mission and who you work with. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Yes, the Education Law Center is a nonprofit organization, a national one, that works to protect and strengthen public education and the rights of students. | ||
| So we do that work through, we work in core areas, including school funding advocacy, protecting the publicness of public schools, and also working to advance students' civil rights. | ||
| And we'll get to the news why we are talking about this today, and that is that there were reports this week that President Trump is finalizing plans to dismantle the Department of Education. | ||
| Rick, do you agree with that effort? | ||
| I mean, you know, there's a lot of moving parts here. | ||
| What do we mean by dismantling the department is the first one. | ||
| But sure. | ||
| I mean, first off, it's important for your viewers to understand a big distinction between the department in terms of a building with 4,000 bureaucrats, none of whom are educators, none of whom actually run schools, and the federal programs that Congress has authorized, Pell Grant, Title I of Every Student Succeeds Act, the Funding of Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. | ||
| So whether or not the department exists doesn't actually have a direct impact on whether those dollars are going out to families and schools. | ||
| Yeah, I think it's perfectly reasonable to abolish the department. | ||
| It was created in 1979 by Jimmy Carter to fulfill a promise he had made to the nation's largest teachers union. | ||
| It has, you know, what the department mostly operates as is a mega bank with a trillion-dollar portfolio that's been poorly run, that's been losing taxpayers' money, with a small K-12 policy shop, which is most known for writing extraordinary numbers of rules and regulations around things like time and effort reporting and supplement not supplant regs, which tend to drown school leaders and school district leaders in red tape. | ||
| Now, do I think the administration will be able to abolish the department? | ||
| No, because that would require an act of Congress. | ||
| But I do think they will be able to downsize it, reduce its ranks, and probably reorganize it in important ways. | ||
| And I think that would be all to the good. | ||
| And Bob, your reaction to that news? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, I agree that only Congress can take steps to change or alter the course of and the future of the Department of Education. | |
| So it's not something that the executive branch can do unilaterally. | ||
| But I think it's actually a very damaging and extreme move to take steps to dismantle an important federal agency such as the Department of Education. | ||
| I used to work there during the Obama administration, so I have some understanding of the different parts and components of it. | ||
| And there are some very important functions that go on in that department. | ||
| It's more than just a mega bank, I would offer. | ||
| There's important supports to states and districts in the delivery of pre-K through K-12 and career technical education. | ||
| A lot of help to students all over the country to access and afford college. | ||
| There's students and families being helped to ensure their civil rights and to protect their privacy. | ||
| And there's important research and data collection that goes on. | ||
| Only the federal government has that ability to monitor and evaluate research and trends of how we're doing as a nation in terms of the delivery of education and whether we're doing a good job. | ||
| So that and those functions, in addition to the overall accountability that we need in our country to ensure standards of quality and efficiency in how taxpayer dollars are being spent, those functions are very important for there to be a federal role and department governing education. | ||
| So I think that it's a damaging move and one that ultimately has both a symbolic effect that's saying that education is going to be deprioritized at the federal level, and it also has a substantive policy effect as well. | ||
| Our guests for the next 45 minutes or so are Bob Kim, Executive Director of the Education Law Center, and Rick Hess, Education Policy Studies Senior Fellow and Director at American Enterprise Institute. | ||
| If you have a question or comment for them, you can start calling in now. | ||
| I want to let you know the lines for the segment are a little bit different. | ||
| The parents and students, you can call in at 202-748-8000. | ||
| If you're an educator or administrator, the line is 202-748-8001. | ||
| All others, you can use 202-748-8002. | ||
| And of course, you can continue to send us text messages at 202-748-8003. | ||
| Rick, you mentioned that some of the programs wouldn't change even if the Department of Education were to shut down. | ||
| Are there programs that would be targeted? | ||
| Yeah, and you know, I mean, I think, again, this is where the media narrative has made it hard to have a thoughtful conversation. | ||
| Because there's some points Bob made, some of his points, I actually think we might be on the same page. | ||
| He's, for instance, he is right about the data collecting capabilities of the U.S. Department of Education. | ||
| We want somebody who's administering the National Assessment of Educational Progress. | ||
| We actually want the National Center for Ed Statistics to have data on school spending. | ||
| And in fact, abolishing the department would not abolish, for instance, the Institute for Education Sciences. | ||
| You know, for instance, Senator Mike Round's bill, which has been introduced in the Senate, What it would do is you would move the statistical and research operation somewhere else in the federal government. | ||
| The Office of Civil Rights, to which Bob alluded, would move over to the Department of Justice. | ||
| The trillion-dollar student loan portfolio would move to Treasury, which has not failed three consecutive audits, and which did not have three years to simplify the federal student aid form and make a complete hash of it. | ||
| So, part of the argument here for abolishing the department is frankly, there is, I think, real grounds for being skeptical that the department has executed its mission in a competent or apolitical fashion, and that part of the dismantling is an opportunity to move entities to a place where they will be better run. | ||
| Now, that said, so for instance, to your question, the programs that Congress has authorized, special education, for instance, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, spends, you know, $15 to $20 billion a year. | ||
| Those dollars would still be allocated. | ||
| They might be allocated out of the Department of Health and Human Services. | ||
| Those funds go to local education agencies through states to serve eligible children who've been identified as having special needs. | ||
| All of that will continue as is. | ||
| It might have fewer rules and regulations layered atop, although probably not. | ||
| Title I, about the $15 to $20 billion a year that goes out to serve low-income schools with high concentrations of low-income children under the Every Student Succeeds Act, those dollars would still continue to flow. | ||
| Pell Grants. | ||
| So all of these will continue. | ||
| What would be discontinued for the most part if you start to dismantle or rearrange the department are the discretionary programs, the grant programs which exist at the discretion of the department, for which the Biden administration put a heavy thumb in terms of its particular passions for DEI and DEI-aligned priorities for which the Trump administration obviously is going to have a different set of priorities. | ||
| Frankly, it seems to me that if we want to depoliticize education and start to back away from some of the national culture clashes, reducing the ability of an executive, you know, of the executive to put a heavy thumb on the scale for their particular priorities and agendas is probably a healthy thing. | ||
| We will go to calls. | ||
| We have several people waiting to talk with you. | ||
| We'll start with Tiffany in Vero Beach, Florida. | ||
| She is on the parents and students sign. | ||
| Good morning, Tiffany. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| So my question was to special education particularly. | ||
| I think there are a lot of parents around the country that are concerned that if the Department of Education goes away, that somehow their children's funding will be affected. | ||
| Are there other mechanisms that the President or Secretary McMahon can take or Congress can take in order to really give parents the money directly so that they can make the best decisions for their child, especially when we're dealing with a child with special needs? | ||
| Bob, would you like to respond? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great question. | |
| And special education is one of the most important duties that the federal government has some role in in terms, and the department in particular. | ||
| Not only is there a dedicated special education office there to enforce a congressional act called the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, but there's also a civil rights office that enforces federal civil rights laws, including the ADA, including the Rehabilitation Act. | ||
| And these are laws designed, set forth by Congress to ensure that students with disabilities have equitable access, that they're receiving a free, appropriate public education, that IEPs in school districts around the country are being established and followed. | ||
| And so those are really important laws. | ||
| And every school district in this country has students with disabilities and could use the federal support to ensure that those students' needs are being met. | ||
| So I do think that this is an important topic. | ||
| It also relates to civil rights in general, which is a very important role of the federal department to ensure civil rights, not only for students with disabilities, but also students of color, also students on the basis of sex. | ||
| And so I think that those important functions without a strong federal presence there, that civil rights could be jeopardized around the country. | ||
| Now, you know, Mr. Hess was mentioning that these functions could be redistributed, you know, to other agencies, so forth, or pushed down to state and local responsibility. | ||
| But I think that that would be very damaging to do. | ||
| Like, let's remember when the Department of Education was established in 1979, there were problems at that time. | ||
| The education functions, including special education, were distributed across a half dozen other agencies. | ||
| And there was a lot of sentiment at that time that there was fragmentation of efforts, duplication and inconsistency, inefficiency across government. | ||
| And so the public was not being well served. | ||
| And frankly, the president was not, the White House was not being well served by educational functions being dispersed in such a haphazard way across multiple different departments. | ||
| So that was what led to the creation of the Department of Education. | ||
| There was a recognition that it was important. | ||
| The world was changing and we needed a centralized location to focus on education not as one part of many other functions or sectors of government, but as its own priority for the United States. | ||
| And so that's what led to the creation of the department. | ||
| And I think special education is just one component among many across pre-K to K-12, career technical education and post-secondary, that we need a federal direction. | ||
| We need there to be a federal focus and a prioritization in the White House that education and public education are super top priorities for the nation to be competitive with the world to ensure our economy is secure. | ||
| And frankly, also to ensure that lack of education doesn't become a national security concern down the road. | ||
| Rick, I'll give you the opportunity to also respond if you'd like. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| You know, I think Bob and I could have a very interesting conversation about the history of federal special ed law and the history of the department. | ||
| So we probably won't, I won't, I won't try to inflict that on your viewers. | ||
| It's less relevant at the moment. | ||
| Let's just say that Bob and I, I think, would explain how we got here very differently. | ||
| I would just, two empirical facts that I think are really useful to people who don't spend all day following this stuff. | ||
| One is when we're talking especially about K-12 education, it's important to understand that Washington only pays about 10 cents on the dollar. | ||
| 90 cents on the dollar for K-12 education comes from states and communities. | ||
| So when people hear that we might abolish the department, First off, abolishing the department doesn't mean those federal funds are going to go away. | ||
| But also, Washington is a very, plays a very minor role in financing education. | ||
| And in fact, of that $80 billion, only about $35 or $40 billion that Washington spends. | ||
| So only about $0.04 or $0.05 on the dollar actually winds up directly in classrooms. | ||
| A lot of it is school lunch and these other kinds of programs, which are run, for instance, out of the Department of Agriculture. | ||
| The second thing that I think it's important to keep in mind is, you know, Bob alluded to the fact that we need a Department of Education because it keeps our eye on the ball. | ||
| It provides federal leadership. | ||
| You know, I would submit that it has done anything but. | ||
| We just saw the new National Assessment of Education progress results last week. | ||
| They were abysmal. | ||
| We've been in a 12 or 13 year stagnation or swoon. | ||
| The worst served children are the kids who are low achievers. | ||
| Our high achievers are at least treading water. | ||
| It's our low achievers where the bottom's falling out. | ||
| And yet, for instance, during the past four years, Secretary Cardona's main point of emphasis with schools seemed to be, spend all the money we're giving you because I promise I'll get you more. | ||
| He offered a backdoor conduit to the teacher unions so that they could review and slow efforts to reopen schools. | ||
| The Department of Education wound up conspiring with the National School Boards Association to ask the FBI to investigate parents who are protesting school boards because of prolonged school closures and masking. | ||
| So not only am I skeptical of the notion that the department is providing leadership on, you know, in this national security dimension, making sure our schools are effective, but one of the reason, one of the reasons I think you see such passion for downsizing or abolishing the department in Trump II that wasn't there in Trump I is because a lot of parents and policymakers, | ||
| especially on the right, have come around to the conclusion that the Department of Education is not only not providing that leadership, but it's actually actively undermining that kind of focus for our schools. | ||
| We'll hear next from Amy in Fleshing, New York. | ||
| She's on the line for educators and administrators. | ||
| Good morning, Amy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I've been a special education teacher for over 40 years, and I also work at a homework help service after school. | ||
| So I'm extremely dedicated to my students. | ||
| And I understand the points of both our gentlemen. | ||
| I see that we do want to make sure the federal government has a role to make sure that our children are needed, are serviced equitably across the 50 states, though it can look different in each state. | ||
| But I also think that we do need to streamline the services because I spend, I'll just give you an example, over an hour a week just taking attendance when I could be planning or working with my students. | ||
| There have been so many bureaucratic mandates and different things that really we have to battle against in order to help our students. | ||
| And if we can also streamline the money so the money goes to provide more teachers, so we have less people on the administrative level and more people actually in the classroom working with our students. | ||
| Not only the teachers, but our paraprofessionals, they work so hard with their kids. | ||
| And the more we can get that money back into the actual classroom in whatever way possible, I just wanted to hear either of your suggestions for that. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bob, we'll start with you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I can take that. | |
| You know, it's true that in terms of school funding that states and districts provide for most of the education, the federal role in terms of school expenses is relatively low compared to states and districts. | ||
| But I will say that it varies state by state. | ||
| So, you know, the percentage of revenue that comes from federal sources that goes to schools and classrooms is actually the highest in what we might consider the states that predominantly supported President Trump. | ||
| You know, South Dakota, Mississippi, and Montana. | ||
| Those states receive upwards and close to one-fifth of their school funding comes from the federal government. | ||
| And the lowest spending states in terms of the federal contribution to public schools are states like New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and so forth that have like almost under 5% of funds. | ||
| But by and large, states and districts already control the spending for most of what goes on in schools around the country. | ||
| So we have to sort of place it in context. | ||
| I'd also like to say that, you know, to the point about the country going down in terms of our test scores and performance, that's all the more reason not to dismantle the federal department, which is trying to improve educational performance and standards and achievement across the country. | ||
| If there are problems with that, if the federal government hasn't done a good enough job with that, the answer is not to blow it all up and dismantle the federal government and the department, but instead to come up with a vision and a real plan to help states and districts educate their children, to educate the neediest among the children, the most disadvantaged. | ||
| And that's what the federal government and the department primarily are set up to do is to help states and districts educate students living with poverty through the Title I program, to educate students with disabilities through the IDEA grants, to educate the homeless, migrant students, foster students. | ||
| And really, so it's the most, also there's a division that helps with students learning English. | ||
| And that's a big challenge for districts around the country is to how to integrate English learners into the school environment and into our society. | ||
| Helping millions of students go afford college and go to college through student loans. | ||
| And so this is the role of the federal government and the department is to help states and districts do this work. | ||
| It's not to micromanage them. | ||
| The federal government does not control school curricula. | ||
| It's actually legally prohibited from controlling or influencing school curricula. | ||
| And so schools are already run by states and districts. | ||
| And the federal role is primarily to help to give a boost through funding for the most challenging at-risk students and to create equity and equality between the states because the states frankly vary a lot in terms of both their ability to pay for schools as well as their effort and commitment to ensure equity and quality and excellence in schools. | ||
| And so even with this decentralized system that we have in the United States, the answer is not to dismantle a federal program that's designed to help, but in fact to improve that, take steps and let's like actually roll up our sleeves and figure out how we can better support states and districts in meeting the needs of all their students. | ||
| Rick, do you have any response? | ||
| You know, first off, I am, you know, I admire Bob's passion and vision. | ||
| And honestly, if I thought that the Department of Education was hewing to the vision he has sketched, I think I would feel differently. | ||
| I love the vision. | ||
| It is completely unrecognizable in terms of the department, with which I'm familiar. | ||
| The Department of Education employs a little over 4,000 people. | ||
| 1,400 of them work on student lending. | ||
| Student lending was federalized. | ||
| The banks were closed out of it during the Obama administration. | ||
| This was supposed to be a revenue maker for taxpayers. | ||
| In fact, it was part of how President Obama was going to help pay for the Affordable Care Act. | ||
| In fact, it loses money partly because during the Biden administration, President Biden, without legal authorization from Congress, wound up giving away $400 billion from taxpayers to borrowers who weren't repaying their loans, who didn't want to repay their loans, mostly for graduate school, before the courts were able to stop them. | ||
| There's 89 people who work in the communications office. | ||
| Look, if I thought the department actually had people who were educators, who were skilled, who were helping with English language learning, that'd be one thing. | ||
| That's not what's going on. | ||
| So the caller, special educators, in the past, we don't have good data on this because unfortunately education research too rarely asks the questions that we really need answers to. | ||
| But providers in this space have done surveys and there have been estimates that special educators spend 30%, even 40% of their time filling out federally mandated paperwork. | ||
| So we've got, we're always, you know, special educators are always at a premium. | ||
| We never have enough folks who actually have the skills and training to make a difference for kids with these special needs. | ||
| And when we have these folks, they are spending inordinate amounts of time not just designing individualized education plans and then diagnosing student needs and then providing support and intervention. | ||
| They're spending an extraordinary amount of time on their laptop filling out paperwork. | ||
| When you spend time with school principals or with district Title I coordinators, they are terrified to zero out even ineffective programs because federal guidelines, for instance, about supplement not supplant, | ||
| mean that they risk encountering what they call an audit exception, getting in trouble with the regulators if they cannot, if there's a suspicion that even an ineffective staff member or an even ineffective program is somehow being terminated without federal permission. | ||
| And this is in districts where there's Title I dollars or perhaps three pennies on the dollar that the district's spending. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So look, love Bob's vision. | |
| Aspirationally, that makes sense. | ||
| I think in practical terms, one of the huge problems is that Congress is authorizing these dollars to serve children, to serve schools serving low-income kids, to help low-income students go on to college via Pell Grants, to help students with special needs. | ||
| I support that. | ||
| I think you found that most Republicans in Congress have consistently voted for those funds. | ||
| The problem with the Department of Ed is that it's not actually giving those funds. | ||
| What it is doing is suffusing them in paperwork and rules and red tape and not really adding much in the way of value. | ||
| And I think the argument here is let's send those funds out to schools or to families and certainly into classrooms rather than creating paperwork. | ||
| But here's the most basic point. | ||
| Since No Child Left Behind in 2001, nationally, U.S. student enrollment is up 5%. | ||
| Central office staffing is up 90%. | ||
| What we are doing is creating paperwork 18 times as fast as we're adding students. | ||
| And I think when you talk to educators in the field, there's a sense, and I think a proper sense, that a lot of this is originating in Washington. | ||
| We'll go next to Danny in Hampton, Virginia. | ||
| He's on the line for parents and students. | ||
| Good morning, Danny. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Yes. | ||
| Most of you have missed. | ||
| There's an executive branch, a legislative branch, and a judicial branch. | ||
| I don't believe in the executive order dismantling what's been set up since 1979. | ||
| My parents were educators. | ||
| My mom was in the art and music department. | ||
| My dad was in history. | ||
| They spent hours and hours and hours, but they didn't get paid for. | ||
| Now they're talking about dismantling. | ||
| I think we need to go back to the legislative branch. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Bob, your background is in, you have a legal background. | ||
| What can you tell us about potential challenges to President Trump's actions? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, well, as we said at the top of the hour, only Congress can determine the future of the Department of Education. | |
| So, you know, we will be watching, as will many others, to evaluate whether or not decisions around the department are going through the proper channels. | ||
| There's a separation of powers here, you know, one of the founding principles. | ||
| And so I think that as a legal matter, you know, we and others are watching to make sure that the White House is not acting unilaterally in extreme ways to fundamentally alter or reshape not only the department, but other agencies as well. | ||
| And, you know, which raises a point here, and I think we should all be clear about this, that this rhetoric around dismantling the Department of Education, it's not simply to redistribute, you redistribute these functions to other agencies or to localize educational spending in the states. | ||
| It's really part of a broader goal of this White House to shrink or eliminate the federal government as well as shrink or eliminate education funds for states and districts and instead to enhance the privatization of education throughout the 50 states. | ||
| So this larger agenda here to shrink education, the federal government overall, And privatize education, it's clear throughout the Project 2025 playbook, as well as it's clear through other executive actions and orders that have already been released by the White House in the first few weeks that not only relate to education but relate to other sectors of government as well. | ||
| So, really, we're not talking about simply the existence of a department. | ||
| We're talking about the future of this country in terms of whether we will have strong or viable public schools throughout the states and whether the federal government will play a role in supporting states and districts to ensure not only that there's funding, at least from the federal contribution, but also to ensure that states themselves are supporting publication, public schools, and not diverting funds to private and religious schools. | ||
| Nothing against private and religious education. | ||
| Those are also important components of the education sector that many families rely on. | ||
| But the problem here is that we need strong public schools. | ||
| Any industrialized nation that hopes to have a bright future for itself, its economy, its security, needs strong public schools in every state. | ||
| And the federal government has a role to ensure that that happens, that civil rights of students are being protected, and that students have equal educational opportunity. | ||
| These are the goals that Congress set forth in the 60s during the civil rights era: to ensure that students living in poverty were not left behind, to ensure that all students had a chance to have a high-quality public education and to go to college, which, as we know, is becoming more and more expensive. | ||
| There needs to be a program to ensure that students can afford to go to college if they choose to do so. | ||
| And so, these are things that it's important for the federal government to play a part in. | ||
| And yes, there's bureaucracy. | ||
| Yes, there's a lot of paperwork. | ||
| Nobody likes that. | ||
| I don't like the paperwork on my desk at all. | ||
| But that's not the answer to that, is not to jettison these important functions of the federal government. | ||
| It's to look at them and to say, how can we enhance and better support states and districts to help more students experience equal educational opportunity? | ||
| We'll go next to Marie in Silver Spring, Maryland, and she's on the line for educators and administrators. | ||
| Good morning, Marie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| I am very concerned about gutting programs, SCOG grants, work study, and student loans. | ||
| As a person who is middle class today, because I was able to get a program, live at home, go to CUNY to the University of New York, get a bachelor's and a master's degree. | ||
| Are we cutting off the pipeline for students whose parents can't write checks for them to go to college? | ||
| And are we now doing this now that the majority of kids who are going to college are black and brown? | ||
| Rick, I think this is something that you spoke to earlier. | ||
| Yeah, no, I think it's a fantastic question. | ||
| And again, you know, this is where I urge your viewers to just treat the narratives on both sides with some caution, because I think a lot of what you would think the debate's about, if you just read the headlines, misses a lot of what's actually going on. | ||
| Look, there's actually a lot of agreement, a lot of bipartisan agreement, which I think is enormously healthy, that we want, we need to do a much better job of ensuring that when folks finish high school, they have a range of options that make sense to them. | ||
| One of the frustrations I think you feel among a lot of Americans of every economic class is that you have to go buy a college diploma in order to be able to compete for a good job. | ||
| That's a problem. | ||
| It's a problem, especially because, as Bob mentioned, we've seen massive price inflation. | ||
| And I think what you've seen is you've seen a raft of ideas on both the right and left about how to help combat this. | ||
| On the right, the argument is, look, the kind of loan forgiveness that President Biden tried to do, even after Nancy Pelosi said the president doesn't have the authority. | ||
| And then President Biden tried to give a trillion dollar in taxpayer funds to borrowers. | ||
| One of the problems is it says to colleges, hey, it's free money. | ||
| You might as well raise your price. | ||
| So what you saw in the House last year, for instance, was the Republican House, Virginia Fox, chair of the Education Committee, passed out a committee something called the College Cost Reduction Act, which says, look, what we need to do is we need to ensure that if students are borrowing money to go to colleges, they're not getting ripped off. | ||
| Rather than forgiving money on the back, let's make sure colleges are offering students decent value. | ||
| So that means programs at a college have to demonstrate that, you know, you're not making less money with your degree than you would have made without it. | ||
| Otherwise, you're not eligible for student aid. | ||
| It requires that colleges share the risk. | ||
| If their student borrowers default, it doesn't all fall on taxpayers. | ||
| The colleges which pocketed the money would also have to pay part of it. | ||
| This is very, these provisions are very likely to be written into the reconciliation bill that's likely to make it out of Congress this year. | ||
| So it's not about closing the spigot. | ||
| It's about ensuring that the risks move from taxpayers to the colleges that are taking the money so that they have skin in the game and so that they're not fleecing students who are going to programs which have no return. | ||
| Pell grants. | ||
| Pell grants aren't going away. | ||
| You have strong support on the right and the left. | ||
| There's a lot of interest in what they call short-term Pell. | ||
| Right now, it's hard to use or it's impermissible to use Pell Grants for a lot of shorter higher education options that aren't traditional degrees. | ||
| So if you want to go to a coding boot camp and they're coding boot camps where you do three months or six months and you're starting somewhere at a salary of $80,000 or $90,000, the argument's that there ought to be more flexibility for students to use Pell Grants in that way. | ||
| So, you know, I think one of the things here is that abolishing the department is about us disagreeing about whether Washington is well situated to provide leadership, about the, you know, the problems that Washington creates through red tape and rulemaking. | ||
| A separate question is making sure that we have those ladders of opportunity out there and that we are providing those funds in a sensible way that creates healthy incentives for the folks who are serving post-secondary students. | ||
| And there, I think, when you get, when you dig a couple inches under the headlines, you find that there's more important, more interesting conversations going on between lawmakers than you might have guessed. | ||
| We'll hear next from Andrew in Perland, Texas, line for educators and administrators. | ||
| Good morning, Andrew. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| Thank you so much for having me on. | ||
| I am an educator. | ||
| I work at a public school here in the Houston area, and we are a Title I school. | ||
| We also receive free lunch and free breakfast for our students. | ||
| And so I have a student who has muscular dystrophy. | ||
| He's in a motorized wheelchair. | ||
| He cannot use his hands. | ||
| So he has an aide that is with him all day long. | ||
| And I, and she and I have spoken about this. | ||
| We are afraid that if the Department of Education closes, and as Mr. Hess says, if these funds are allocated through some alternative way other than being directly allocated from the federal government to the states and then to the school districts, that this child is going to lose his aid and that some of our paraprofessionals are going to be cut. | ||
| Some of our secretaries are going to be cut. | ||
| We have a paraprofessional who acts as a safety liaison. | ||
| He goes around every day and checks doors, locks, makes sure the school is secure. | ||
| He's not law enforcement, but to my understanding, his position is mostly paid by federal dollars. | ||
| I also want to say something about what Mr. Kim said about this Republican and conservative push to privatize schools, or not privatize schools, but to defund public schools and be able to send tax dollars to private and parochial schools. | ||
| And that's about to happen probably here in Texas. | ||
| The Texas Senate has already passed it. | ||
| For the past two years, we have not really received spending increases because our governor, Governor Abbott, has held those increases hostage until he gets his way on the school voucher issue. | ||
| And, you know, I looked up the cost of a private school here in Houston called St. John, and the average cost is $29,000. | ||
| So to me, this lie that doing these school vouchers would help poor and low-income kids be able to attend private schools is totally false. | ||
| This thing is going to help already attending students, their families, their rich families, to be able to get a discount for them to go to these private schools. | ||
| So I'm very, very wary of all of this. | ||
| And I don't think shutting down the department is the right thing to do. | ||
| I think, like what Mr. Kim said, get somebody smart, get somebody who is motivated and has a vision to go in and run it. | ||
| And I don't think Linda McMahon, an ex-wrestler, is the person to do that. | ||
| Thank you both so much. | ||
| I appreciate y'all. | ||
| Bob, we will start with you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, a lot of good points made in there. | |
| I mean, the federal support, again, for the types of services and personnel that the caller was mentioning are in part supported through the very critical IDEA federal funding. | ||
| And it's not just the funds themselves, but it's the technical assistance and yeah, a little bit of requirements and enforcement to make sure that that money gets used by states and districts for the purpose intended by Congress, which is to ensure that services, related aids, and related services and supports for those students are being used, the dollars are being used to ensure that free, | ||
| appropriate public education by students with disabilities. | ||
| So these attempts to either block grant or to get rid of and provide unfettered discretion to use those funds in other ways, I think, is a concern from a disability rights standpoint, from an efficient and proper use of federal funds standpoint. | ||
| So I think those are concerns that we should all be having. | ||
| As to the point about Texas and the proliferation of our desire in states to privatize education, that we know is happening around the country. | ||
| As we were getting through the pandemic, we went from zero to 13 states around the country that have universal voucher programs, which means that any student, whether or not they ever went to public school, including wealthy students, can take advantage of taxpayer dollars meant for public education and attend a private school or a school run by a church, a religious school. | ||
| And those, so that critical funding, and we already see the siphoning of public education dollars in states like Florida and Arizona and other states around the country, that's profoundly damaging to the public education system in states around the country. | ||
| So this is part of what the Trump administration is signaling that it wants to do is to eliminate the department to send money with unfettered discretion to states, many of which want to shrink their own public education systems, further reduce their spending, and to move that to the private sector. | ||
| Now, what happens when you move all of your education systems and increasing thousands of students to private schools? | ||
| Well, then you lose all sense of accountability whatsoever. | ||
| You don't have accountability over teacher credentialing, over civil rights laws, over basic standards in private education in terms of what they teach, and to ensure that they teach everyone, that the school is open to anyone, no matter what religion they have or no religion, no matter what sexual orientation or gender identity they may have, not to mention the other civil rights categories. | ||
| Students with disabilities, for example, does a private religious school is it subject to the federal civil rights laws? | ||
| No. | ||
| So this is part of a bigger, slow-moving, you know, and some might say in the last several weeks, not so slow-moving, attempt to infuse and change the way that public education is, | ||
| and education writ large is delivered in this country with contrary to far less oversight, with no oversight, no accountability, and no adherence to civil rights and other education laws set forth by Congress over multiple decades. | ||
| So this is what we're entering into, and it's a cautionary tale. | ||
| And the dismantling of the public education is only one facet of this broader agenda. | ||
| Rick, your response. | ||
| There's a lot there. | ||
| First, let me just again and try to reassure viewers that, look, special ed funding, the administration tried to do this freezing $6 trillion in outlays. | ||
| There was a court injunction by the end of the day. | ||
| It could try to do an injunction on the $17 or $18 billion in special education funding. | ||
| I think you'd have an injunction by the end of it. | ||
| And look, this is a president who has promised, unfortunately, not to make any effort to rein in Medicare or Social Security. | ||
| For folks out there concerned that they are going to try to eliminate or downsize special ed funding, I would suggest that is highly unlikely. | ||
| And they don't have the votes in Congress to do it, even if they wanted to. | ||
| And I see no indication they want to. | ||
| So just at a practical level, that student's aid is not going away. | ||
| Look, more fundamentally, let me talk for a sec. | ||
| Let me respond to the caller and to Bob's claims about public education. | ||
| Look, to my mind, there's two ways to think about public education. | ||
| One is that we spend $800 billion a year in taxpayer funds on K-12 so that we can give it to the employees who run traditional public school districts, and it's their $800 billion. | ||
| For 50 million kids, so we spend about $16,000, $17,000 per kid, and they get to do what they want with it. | ||
| The other way to think about this is that we spend those funds because we want to educate the public's children. | ||
| And there are many mechanisms. through which we might choose to educate them. | ||
| Starting back in 1991, Minnesota enacted something called a charter school law. | ||
| Charter schools use public funds to authorize schools that are not necessarily geographically configured to serve kids. | ||
| There's about 7,000 charter schools today. | ||
| States can also do something that we've been doing since the Great Society with vouchers. | ||
| In the case, there, the initial insight was instead of just building public housing, why don't we give those same public funds to families as a voucher so that they can find an apartment or a home that makes sense for them. | ||
| Look, the logic of education savings accounts, the voucher programs, is that the public, a given state's Democratic representatives, are saying, gosh, our public schools aren't serving our kids well. | ||
| As Bob noted, a real inflection point here was the pandemic, when suddenly lots of parents said, hey, we have counted on these schools forever and they are refusing to open. | ||
| And yet, right over there, there are private schools which are running full-time instruction. | ||
| There are charter schools that are open. | ||
| We see micro schools springing up. | ||
| Why should my ability to get my kid educated be held hostage to the politics of a school district reopening when there are other schools that are interested in serving my kid? | ||
| And so I think an important piece of this is to understand that what Bob thinks of as privatization, somebody like me thinks of as empowering families to make sure they're finding the right learning environment for their kid. | ||
| Because those schools don't belong to the school board and the school superintendent. | ||
| They are there for the purpose of educating the public's children. | ||
| And if the parents are concerned, the schools are doing a lousy job or not doing the job at all, I'm interested in ensuring that they have alternatives. | ||
| Now, as far as the caller raised this question of this $29,000 a year Boston private school, excuse me, Houston private school, sure. | ||
| And I forget what Houston Independent School District currently spends. | ||
| I'm guessing it's about $19,000 or $20,000 a kid if you look at the total outlay over kids. | ||
| Now, keep in mind that the average cost, for instance, of a parochial K-8 school in the U.S., so a Catholic school, is more in the $6,000 to $9,000 range, whereas the average public school is spending about twice that. | ||
| And in New York City, for instance, this year, the New York City public school district is spending $38,000, $39,000 per child this year. | ||
| So it's important to understand that, in fact, outside of a handful of these super duper fancy private schools that you hear about that serve the kids of the elite, most private school options are actually cheaper, in many cases significantly cheaper, than what public school districts are spending per child. | ||
| We have just a couple minutes left. | ||
| We want to get in. | ||
| One last call. | ||
| We'll go to Suzanne in Washington, D.C. She's on the line for others. | ||
| Good morning, Suzanne. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Just briefly, the perspective I'm coming from is I'm from California. | ||
| My family are all educators. | ||
| My father is one of the creators of Head Start. | ||
| So he's like a federal standard guy. | ||
| He's in his mid-90s. | ||
| But, you know, I've seen firsthand the grants and the, you know, just how it really works and where the money really goes. | ||
| And at this point, I'm without a party. | ||
| I can clearly understand how incredibly frustrated everyone is. | ||
| The problems in all the departments are intractable. | ||
| There seems to be no curiosity to really do research that would actually benefit anyone or, you know, just fix anything. | ||
| It is bloated and it doesn't work for anyone. | ||
| Like if this system doesn't work for me, you know, it's not working for anyone. | ||
| I've never been able to work and go to even junior college. | ||
| And I'm 56 years old, you know, and that's my family, you know. | ||
| Yeah, I just, I understand the anger and it's how crazy what is happening is right now. | ||
| It's like in direct proportion to, you know, how really frustrated everyone is. | ||
| Suzanne, we'll get a response. | ||
| We're short on time. | ||
| Rick, we'll give you one of our last two minutes first, and then Bob will give you our last minute. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I think the callers, I think that's spot on. | ||
| I think so much of what everyone is dealing with. | ||
| And, you know, one of the problems, you know, in a lot of our debates, I think is, I think, this conversation about abolishing the department is in many ways emblematic. | ||
| It is real easy to go from what the caller put her finger on, this frustration, this sense that, you know, things are bloated and bureaucratic and ineffective. | ||
| And abolishing the department has, I think, for both parties, kind of become symbolic. | ||
| And I think whether or not you want to abolish a department, and again, I think it's perfectly fine. | ||
| But for me, actually, the bigger issue is not just abolishing the department, but fixing the problems that exist at the department. | ||
| The fact that we have a broken student loan system, which is costing taxpayers a fortune and not serving borrowers well, that we are making the lives of educators out in the country far more difficult than they need to be with the rules we've imposed. | ||
| That the Department of Education, that the Office of Civil Rights was weaponized not by following through on congressional statute, but by using half-baked, off-the-cuff guidance to force scholars to strip due process from folks alleged of misconduct in the Obama years or to force schools to weaken discipline. | ||
| So look, let's talk about abolishing the department and we'll take our, well, you know, Bob and I can disagree, but let's also make sure that we're delving into the actual problems that we're worried about and let's make sure we don't lose sight of them. | ||
| And Bob, we'll give you the last minute or so. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, I think, you know, just concluding this segment out, it really is important to understand that public education is under attack from many different vantage points. | |
| And what we really need is a strong federal role in preserving and supporting, preserving public education and supporting states and districts to deliver a high quality public education. | ||
| Public schools are key to the economy and to our democracy. | ||
| They are engines of social mobility, civic engagement. | ||
| They help us compete with other nations economically, and they're really the center of communities. | ||
| And so we need a president. | ||
| We need a Secretary of Education who believes in public education and will work to support states, districts, and families to increase the quality of public education and to help more students go to college, afford college, or whatever other pathway they want after they graduate from high school. | ||
| That's what we need, not shots out of the dark to eliminate whole federal departments without any other alternative plan on how to help states and districts and struggling families to educate their children and themselves and secure a better future for themselves. | ||
| Our guest, Rick Hess, Education Policy Studies Senior Fellow and Director at American Enterprise Institute. | ||
| You can find his work online at AEI.org. | ||
| And Robert Kim, Executive Director of the Education Law Center, you can find his work and others at edlawcenter.org. | ||
| Bob and Rick, thank you so much for being with us today. | ||
| Hey, thanks for having us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Next, after the break, a conversation with Mark Zaid, an attorney who specializes in national security and federal employment law, will take a closer look at the Trump administration's efforts to reduce the federal workforce and what legal protections the workers have. | ||
| But first, here's a portion from this week's, this past week's oversight committee hearing entitled Right-Sizing Government. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Our government was designed to be by, of, and for the American people. | |
| It's made up of civil servants who take an oath to serve the American people and to support and defend the Constitution. | ||
| More than one in three federal workers is employed by either the Postal Service, ensuring every American can get mail, or the Department of Veterans Affairs, providing care to our veterans in VA hospitals, clinics, and nursing homes. | ||
| Almost one in three federal workers is a veteran, and more than 85% live outside the DC metropolitan area across every state and serving every community in America. | ||
| One in three Americans and half of all American children are enrolled in a government program. | ||
| Our government provides the support these Americans are counting on, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, Head Start, the National School Lunch Program. | ||
| We depend on our government to safeguard our food supply and to ensure life-saving medication is safe to consume. | ||
| We depend on our government to provide alerts about extreme weather to the National Weather Service, which you know all too well from the tornado that devastated your community, Mr. Chairman, a few years ago. | ||
| And to provide disaster relief to communities where it's needed, such as in Los Angeles of the devastating fires of the last few weeks. | ||
| This is the so-called deep state that President Trump and his acolytes continue to demonize, and these are the programs and services sitting on Elon Musk's chopping block right now. | ||
| For decades and on a bipartisan basis, members of this committee have lamented the inefficiency of the federal bureaucracy. | ||
| We fought never-ending battles against the waste, fraud, and abuse the bureaucracy generates during both Republican and Democrat administrations. | ||
| One byproduct of this inefficiency, according to GAO, is the near quarter trillion dollars in annual improper payments the government issues. | ||
| But now that President Trump is taking action to drain the swamp and expose how the federal government is spending taxpayer money, which he was elected to do, Democrats are hyperventilating and sensationalizing it. | ||
| Over the past few days, we've heard wild claims from Democrats that we are, quote, at the beginning of a dictatorship, end quote, and we are in a constitutional crisis. | ||
| This kind of theatrical rhetoric is exactly what the American people rejected in November. | ||
| Americans know that Washington needs reform, and Doge is taking inventory to bring about change and steward taxpayer dollars entrusted to the federal government. | ||
| Real innovation is not clean and tidy. | ||
| It's necessarily disruptive and messy. | ||
| But that's exactly what Washington needs right now. | ||
| And it's what the American people voted for in November, a departure from the broken status quo. | ||
| This committee intends to work in partnership with Doge. | ||
| We want to reinforce its efforts and not blunt the momentum it's generating for needed change to the federal bureaucracy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Washington Journal continues. | |
| Joining us now to discuss the Trump administration and federal employment is Mark Zaid. | ||
| He's a national security attorney and also co-founder of Whistleblower Aid. | ||
| Mark, thank you so much for being with us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Tammy. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| I just mentioned that you are a national security attorney. | ||
| Explain who you work with and what kind of issues. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| So I have been practicing law in Washington, D.C. for over 30 years. | ||
| In essence, I'm an employment lawyer, but I'm a spy lawyer. | ||
| Unfortunately, the malpractice insurance companies don't know what that means. | ||
| Well, what that means is I represent predominantly individuals who work inside the intelligence community, often in classified environments, even for me as the lawyer, law enforcement like the FBI, which we'll discuss, and the military. | ||
| But I handle all sorts of employment avenues and areas dealing with terminations, investigations, a lot of security clearance cases. | ||
| I also represent a lot of journalists. | ||
| I've represented major media entities, the Wall Street Journal, the Daily Caller, Politico, Daily Beast, mostly for Freedom of Information Act litigation and trying to force disclosure of documents from the U.S. government, as well as advising on Espionage Act concerns. | ||
| And I also do a lot of whistleblower work, which is why it was mentioned I co-founded Whistleblower Aid almost a decade ago, which is a nonprofit that provides free legal representation to whistleblowers. | ||
| So we helped work on the Trump first impeachment case, not the impeachment part, but the representation of the whistleblower who filed the complaint, the Facebook whistleblower, the Twitter whistleblower. | ||
| We run the gamut. | ||
| We do a lot of great work in that area, and we expect to be very busy. | ||
| And one of the issues that we are talking about, we will talk about the FBI, but we want to start with President Trump offering federal employees a chance to leave their jobs. | ||
| We've heard the terms buyout. | ||
| We've heard deferred resignation. | ||
| Explain exactly what was offered to who and what the judge's temporary block means for that plan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| So let me first be the good lawyer to say I'm not giving anyone legal advice in doing this. | ||
| I'm giving them my opinion on some of the legal analysis and an update of factually where we stand. | ||
| This is, as we're going to discuss, a very complicated matter that is unprecedented. | ||
| That means a lot of the lawyers that people are going to talk to honestly aren't going to know the answer because there isn't a known answer yet. | ||
| I want to give you just a quick example so people understand what I'm talking about. | ||
| You live near a highway that's 55 mile an hour speed limit, and you've been traveling it for years. | ||
| You even know the cops who patrol it, and you know that even though the speed limit's 55, you can go up to pretty much 75 and no one's ever going to bother you and pull you over. | ||
| Then all of a sudden, the cops start enforcing and pulling people over for going 57 miles an hour, maybe even 54 miles an hour. | ||
| Well, that 57 miles an hour, you know, the norms and practices have stopped. | ||
| And that is totally proper and lawful for the cops to pull you over for 57. | ||
| Might not be efficient, might not make sense. | ||
| The judges may be upset. | ||
| The 54, hey, that's something we can do about. | ||
| But that's where we're at right now, where so much of what this administration is doing is one, unprecedented. | ||
| But there are policy arguments, and people can debate reasonably on both sides. | ||
| Does it make sense to do this or not? | ||
| The big issue that's happening is how quickly it's being done, how harshly it's being done, how opaque it's being done, you know, lack of transparency. | ||
| And that's why we're seeing all this litigation that so far has been predominantly successful in federal judges, many of whom were appointed by President Trump in his first administration, are pushing back and issuing injunctions, at least or temporary restraining orders. | ||
| So the fork in the road, as it's been called. | ||
| It's been called that because essentially the language that was sent out a week or so ago by the Office of Personnel Management and gone through all the agencies so that federal workers were receiving it either on their phone or in their email box. | ||
| That fork in the road was a message that Elon Musk sent out to his company in 2022. | ||
| And it very much mirrored it. | ||
| And essentially was this generic offer that said, you can resign right now. | ||
| You can quit. | ||
| And if you do so, we will pay you through September of this year. | ||
| You don't have to come to work. | ||
| We might bring you back to work if we really need you, but we'll basically pay you to go on vacation. | ||
| But you have to give up a bunch of rights. | ||
| Like you can't challenge us for enforcement of this offer, which is an issue. | ||
| We can talk about that more further. | ||
| They were supposed to tell the federal employees were supposed to respond by Thursday evening. | ||
| A federal judge extended that. | ||
| So right now the deadline is midnight, Monday to Tuesday morning. | ||
| They were expecting or hoping for at least 10, 20% even of the workforce to accept this. | ||
| Last number I saw was about 2% of federal employees, which was something like 40,000 employees. | ||
| You know, so it's a very complicated, there are a lot of legal issues with it. | ||
| I have seen arguments on both sides. | ||
| Is it lawful? | ||
| Is it not lawful? | ||
| And we can definitely dig down on it further if you'd like. | ||
| Our guest for the next 30 minutes or so is Mark Zaid. | ||
| He is a national security attorney and co-founder of Whistleblower 8. | ||
| If you have a question or comment for him, you can start calling in now. | ||
| Again, the lines for this segment, they're going to be a little bit different. | ||
| If you are a federal employee, you can call 202-748-8000. | ||
| All others, your line 202-748-8001. | ||
| And Mark, you were talking about the buyout numbers, the 2%. | ||
| That is the same number that I saw the most recent. | ||
| There was an email sent out to employees, another email sent out to employees this week from the USA Day, the headline, Trump to federal employees, take the buyout or face possible furlough if they don't accept the buyout offer. | ||
| Under what circumstance are employees furloughed, and how is this different than the offer that's being made? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So there's a lot of issues to dig down on that. | |
| Another term we're hearing is RIF reduction in force, which happens in every administration, but there are procedures as to how it can be implemented. | ||
| Right now, things like that aren't going to be followed. | ||
| What I have seen when I've been receiving lots of emails from people, friends, people I don't know, federal employees who get these email messages such as you referred to. | ||
| I tell you the one thing in the initial reaction they're going is how insulted they are. | ||
| Because if you read through the language, you could easily interpret it, rightly or wrongly, as if like you're the bad guy on the recipient side and you should leave the government. | ||
| Now, you know, many people would love to see the government reduced in size, and there are very good reasons for that. | ||
| Many people would like to see the budgets reduced, very good reasons for that. | ||
| It's the procedures that are happening right now. | ||
| You know, we have internal regulations in the agencies that have to be followed. | ||
| That's why a lot of the litigation brought so far has been under what we call the Administrative Procedures Act from 1946, which allows you to challenge agency actions that are either final or that are arbitrary, capricious, against the rule of law. | ||
| That gives the judges the opportunity to challenge what the agencies do. | ||
| And in fact, we heard, and I'm sure your program covered, the Supreme Court case dealing with the Chevron decision, which used to stand for that deference would be given to agency decisions by the courts. | ||
| Now, ironically, that works now the other way, where because that was essentially struck down, the courts can second guess the agencies and all of these policies that are being decided and attempted to be implemented so that these injunctions can be issued. | ||
| We have callers waiting to talk with you. | ||
| We'll start with Em in Dayton, Ohio, line for federal employees. | ||
| Good morning, Em. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| My remark is all these federal employees that they are trying to get rid of all have been doing their jobs for as long as they've been federal employees. | ||
| How come they don't go after the House or the Senate that has not done their jobs in the last 16 years that I know of? | ||
| All they do is fight. | ||
| They're not doing anything. | ||
| They're not passing anything. | ||
| They're not stopping anything. | ||
| And I do not think that Elon Musk has the right to go through any of our stuff at all. | ||
| He has no right. | ||
| He's not a federal employee. | ||
| This program, Trump, just brought up out of his mind. | ||
| And everybody in there is nothing but for the rich, and they don't care about the hard-working, taxpaying federal employees or the people that depend on Social Security after they've worked for 30 to 40 years of their life. | ||
| Marketing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, some good points. | |
| So a federal judge agrees with you about the Doge so far. | ||
| In fact, early this morning, a federal judge issued an injunction regarding Doge access to the Treasury records, all of our financial records, IRS records, Social Security payments, et cetera. | ||
| So we'll see how that case goes. | ||
| The Congress, in its infinite wisdom over history, exempts itself usually from many federal laws. | ||
| So I mentioned the Freedom of Information Act, which I sue the executive branch all the time. | ||
| Congress, which wrote the act and passed it almost 60 years ago, exempted itself from that. | ||
| So the President of the United States, any president, doesn't have much control over Congress, especially hiring decisions. | ||
| What can the president do? | ||
| Well, what was done, I think it was yesterday, where members of Congress were blocked from entering the Department of Education by security of that building. | ||
| But, you know, the issue on the federal workers, 100% true. | ||
| Many of these people have worked. | ||
| They're career civil servant. | ||
| They're not partisan. | ||
| They're not political appointees. | ||
| They might have voted Democrat. | ||
| They might have voted Republican. | ||
| Heck, they might have voted communist. | ||
| Who knows? | ||
| That's not a question that is asked of them. | ||
| And many of the people who are being impacted, again, you can raise legitimate questions about has that employee performed work properly? | ||
| Has that employee performed in the way or manner in which we hired them to do? | ||
| And have a process to get rid of and maybe fix that process, reform it so it's easier to terminate employees. | ||
| But I'll give you one quick example. | ||
| I don't want to go into the debate of DEI good or bad, how should it be implemented. | ||
| That's not the issue. | ||
| A new president and administration came in. | ||
| They have policy differences than the one prior, and they want to run the government in a different way. | ||
| That they can do as long as it's lawful. | ||
| But many of the employees, especially in the intelligence community where I often work, who are working DEI cases or offices, they're just doing so on a rotational basis. | ||
| I mean, they've been at the agency for 18 years working on all sorts of stuff, and then a new rotation comes up and they went into this new office that was created just to, you know, experience something different. | ||
| They weren't trying to promote that as a policy necessarily. | ||
| They weren't doing anything in creating policy. | ||
| It was just a new job, like so many federal employees do. | ||
| Normally, what would happen when those, if that office would be shut down, is they would be reassigned to other offices or go back to their home office. | ||
| What we're seeing now in this administration is those individuals are all being suspended and being threatened and we anticipated to be fired. | ||
| Now, that's not what normally is supposed to happen. | ||
| Mark, I want to ask about another point that was in the email that employees got this week. | ||
| It said that it warned that many could be stripped of civil service protections. | ||
| What protections are currently in place and how difficult or easy would it be to remove those? | ||
|
unidentified
|
So it varies very widely. | |
| There is something called the Civil Service Reform Act. | ||
| It's been around since the 1970s, if I'm recalling correctly. | ||
| But it exempts certain agencies, like the FBI, like the intelligence community. | ||
| But often we see if we sue for those individuals, it's very strange. | ||
| The act applies, but it doesn't apply. | ||
| It's called a right without a remedy. | ||
| The act applies, strips them of protection, but they have no ability to challenge what is being done. | ||
| FBI employees can't go generally to the Merit System Protection Board, where a lot of employees in the federal government can go to challenge an adverse action that is in excess of 14 days or a suspension, something of that sort. | ||
| That's an administrative body, pointed terms for these judges, but it's excluded. | ||
| Same thing with the intelligence community. | ||
| Probationary employees that we're going to hear a lot of, because there's a threat, in fact, that the Trump administration is going to fire, already has, I believe, within some prosecutor positions within the Department of Justice. | ||
| But we're being told that 1,000, perhaps, FBI probationary employees may be fired as recently as this coming Monday. | ||
| Probationary employees generally don't have many, if any, rights to be able to sue. | ||
| So it really depends on your posture, what your position is in the federal government, what your grade scale might be, as we call it. | ||
| GS is the level. | ||
| If you are a senior executive in an agency, how long you've been in that position, what agency you work for. | ||
| But typically, there would be an internal process that would be available to you to challenge an action. | ||
| There could be an administrative body process to challenge, and there could be a federal court ability to challenge as well, or maybe all three, depending on who you are. | ||
| Let's hear from Tom in Richmond, Virginia, line for federal employees. | ||
| Good morning, Tom. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Morning. | |
| How y'all doing? | ||
| Good. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| My question was: I was hoping you would be able to get a little bit more into the legal arguments of how Musk and his team are able to do this. | ||
| We're hearing a lot from Democrats that this is illegal and potentially unconstitutional. | ||
| Whereas for Republicans, we're hearing that they're essentially behind this and they're willing to allow this to continue forward. | ||
| So, for someone like myself who might not have studied, spent their time studying law, I was hoping that you could kind of break down the two sides of that legal argument if this were to ever go to court. | ||
| Sure, I'll try. | ||
| I appreciate the question. | ||
| And it is going to court for several of the agencies. | ||
| So, so far, from what we've heard, Musk and Doge, sometimes we've heard SpaceX employees, the other Elon Musk company, you know, the Doge, Department of Government Efficiency, which it's not a government agency, but it may be special government employees, that that's all up for grabs. | ||
| But there have been already lawsuits involving OPM, Office of Personnel Management, USAID, Agency for International Development, the Treasury Department that I mentioned already. | ||
| We've heard about Doge individuals inside even some of the intelligence systems, as well as inside the FBI, at least we've heard of some SpaceX individuals. | ||
| Now, a lot of what I always say in my world is it depends, because facts matter. | ||
| Now, there's a difference between these individuals having access one to unclassified systems and two classified systems. | ||
| Obviously, if it's a classified system, they are required to have a security clearance. | ||
| It is unclear for many of these whether, in fact, that is the case. | ||
| Now, some of these Doge, I'll say employees in air quotes because we don't know exactly what they are. | ||
| Some of them appear to be actual federal employees from certain agencies who have, they're walking around the hallways of these agencies with badges issued by other agencies to show that at least they might have some authorized access or a security clearance. | ||
| But some of the more controversial Doge employees, like the 19-year-old, the 25-year-old that people are starting to hear about, the odds are that they have a security clearance, at least through the normal process, probably pretty slim. | ||
| Now, again, with the caveat that the President of the United States can just issue someone a security clearance as they want. | ||
| No background investigation, nothing what we would normally, and I've held clearances at the highest level as an attorney doing the work that I do. | ||
| I go through background investigations. | ||
| I fill out forms. | ||
| I answer questions. | ||
| I go through interviews, all sorts of that stuff. | ||
| So there's significant issues surrounding many of these systems where the systems and the internal regulations sketch out who's allowed to have access. | ||
| So some of these treasury systems of which the court ordered the injunction this morning, those systems are held incredibly closely to only a small number of people for the obvious reasons of what data is in those systems. | ||
| You know, our social security numbers are sometimes our very most personal PII data. | ||
| So there's restrictions on it, but what we've been seeing so far is that they've been getting access widespread. | ||
| I mean, I've even heard from individuals who have firsthand, so secondhand for me. | ||
| I've even heard of individuals, they were blocked properly by security in some of these agencies, but then they got in the system and they removed the blocks to be able to continue to draw access. | ||
| It's hard to say, it's complicated to go into the legal issues of, you know, yay or nay, can this be done or not, other than to say that so far the legal challenges to say they are not allowed to have access have been successful for a temporary restraining order. | ||
| Now those cases will go to what we call a preliminary or even permanent injunction, which is a higher standard to see whether or not the law has been met. | ||
| And we'll have to see obviously what the government does in response to those orders because it could be that a TRO temporary restraining order is issued, but a preliminary or permanent injunction is lost. | ||
| It depends on the facts that happen in between those two briefings. | ||
| And Mark, that the hearing is scheduled for Monday. | ||
|
unidentified
|
In the one, yeah, I think in the one case that we've talked about. | |
| Okay, I'm going to confirm that. | ||
| We'll hear next from Karen in Illinois, also on the line for federal employees. | ||
| Good morning, Karen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Thanks for taking my call. | ||
| Hi, Mark. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| I'm just really mad. | ||
| I'm just, I work for, first of all, I'm an Army vet. | ||
| I actually had a secret clearance. | ||
| I was a Spanish linguist interrogator for the Army for a few years, and I worked for the VA, and I was directly affected by the Mission Act, Accountability Act. | ||
| And it took five years to get the money back that was owed to me. | ||
| So that I wanted to bring up because it just goes to show how long it takes to get, even if you went through legal process, you know, to defend yourself, it takes forever. | ||
| And now I work, well, I don't say what agency you work for. | ||
| Okay, so thanks. | ||
| So I got the fork in the road email, and I responded, and I hit resign. | ||
| And now, since there's a block, I'm worried that I made the wrong decision. | ||
| So now I'm wondering, my question is for you: is you know, can I rescind that? | ||
| And is it even worth it? | ||
| You know, I'm just, I feel like everything is just falling apart, and I don't know who to turn to. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| And thank you for your service from both in the military, but as a civil servant as well. | ||
| I mean, none of us could function without people like you. | ||
| So it's appreciated very much. | ||
| You know, these are difficult decisions. | ||
| And you shouldn't have to make them on your own or by what the government is sending you. | ||
| So do not hesitate to reach out to me. | ||
| You can Google my name or they'll say my email address. | ||
| Some of this, like some of this, again, is a little bit outside of my area with respect to the kind of in the weeds of the fork in the road. | ||
| But let me just highlight some of the things that you need to consider. | ||
| This is what we don't know. | ||
| There are arguments, and I have heard both sides, and I do not know, honestly, which is the correct one, because again, unprecedented, someone will sue. | ||
| We'll find out. | ||
| The notion of is there an anti-deficiency act violation. | ||
| Now, I'm sure most people are going, I don't know what that act is. | ||
| Most lawyers don't know what that act is. | ||
| Maybe C-SPAN listeners know that act because it's such a kind of in the weeds act, and people have probably talked about it. | ||
| Essentially, it means the argument is the budget is funded right now through March. | ||
| The buyout is the fork in the road goes till September. | ||
| So the March to September funds haven't been authorized by the Congress, the Congress that controls the funding of the U.S. government. | ||
| That's part of the give and take of our system and the branches of government. | ||
| I know that Democrats have been arguing that the Anti-Deficiency Act is being violated because the president cannot offer a buyout for money that has not yet been funded. | ||
| I've heard legal arguments to say that that just isn't accurate. | ||
| I don't know the answer on that. | ||
| What I do know is that at least by the terms of what's in this fork in the road offer, that if you take it, and I'm saying you generically, if you take it and something happens along the way, it indicates in the documentation that you can't sue. | ||
| You've waived any claims. | ||
| So you've waived enforcement ability for something that you've agreed to. | ||
| Now, you know, in a normal contract, you know, for any party and the government can enter into contracts, you can sue for a breach of that contract. | ||
| So that's a serious issue that needs to be resolved as to whether or not if someone accepts this, can you enforce it if something happens along the way, whether it's something that was out of your control or if they find that you committed misconduct and they decide instead to fire you. | ||
| The notion of rescinding, I imagine you can, but I think that's something you want to talk to a lawyer about directly to get legal advice. | ||
| And if I can't do that, I'm happy to put you in touch with someone who I know can. | ||
| So anyone who's listening can just email me, and I'm happy to do that. | ||
| We'll go to Darius in New Hampshire, line for others. | ||
| Good morning, Darius. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Morning, Tammy. | |
| Good morning, Mark. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| So my question is, I heard that the Board of Education was not enacted by Congress. | ||
| It was done by an executive order. | ||
| I was wondering if that was true. | ||
| And also, if it is, I mean, if it isn't, what can Trump, the President Trump do with the executive order? | ||
| As far as for the Department of Education, or I think I heard you say the Board of Education? | ||
| Yeah, the Department of Education. | ||
| Department. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So obviously, we're seeing two departments that are under intense attack. | ||
| The USAID, Agency for International Development, that does a lot of our work overseas with foreign aid programs and the Department of Education. | ||
| The Department of Education, right, not a new issue. | ||
| We heard that in the 2016 presidential election debates about whether or not Ed should be dismantled in some way. | ||
| My understanding, and I'm telling you this not as an expert on this particular area. | ||
| My understanding was that a president of the United States couldn't dismantle an agency that had been created by Congress. | ||
| That there, you know, there may be ways to do it, but you can't just say, as actually we saw, I think it was yesterday, it's hard to keep track of really days of the week now, where literally they took the flag down from USAID and they took the letters off the building. | ||
| Just literally took them all down and told everybody not to come to work. | ||
| And those people were going into the building and screaming. | ||
| I had that from people firsthand, screaming at them and threatening them to bring the U.S. Marshals Service, not quite sure how that would work, but bring the Marshals Service into the building to physically remove them if they didn't go. | ||
| We're starting to see a little pushback even from Republican members of Congress on that, which is good because it should be. | ||
| I mean, this shouldn't be a partisan exercise. | ||
| It should be one that is thought through in an informed manner to make sure that, again, the federal employees, as so many of you are, are taken care of properly, are either given the opportunity to resign with enough time to decide, not just days. | ||
| That's not how the government works. | ||
| Maybe it's private sector, but not the government. | ||
| And do it in a way that doesn't harm a lot of people. | ||
| Like some Meals on Wheels programs were being impacted by what was happening. | ||
| I saw some comments by some Doge officials quoted in the press that they wanted to even stop some federal payments to Americans, you know, just to kind of make their point. | ||
| No, that's not how it works. | ||
| So I think the short answer to your question is, no, I'm not aware that that's how it's supposed to work. | ||
| It ultimately may go that route if a president, a president helped build up the Department of Ed, create it, right? | ||
| A lot of these departments for our lifetime has existed, but not in the history of our country, right? | ||
| The Department of Energy has only been around since the Carter administration. | ||
| I think even the Education Department, if I'm remembering my history, a lot of the programs we have today, Social Security, that's the Roosevelt administration 90 years ago, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, not Teddy. | ||
| So that's 90 years ago, all right? | ||
| We're about to celebrate our 250th birthday next year. | ||
| So Clearly, these programs were created and they can be dismantled. | ||
| The question is how. | ||
| Mark, I want to ask you about a headline in the Washington Post, Judge Barrs, publicly naming FBI agents who investigated January 6th cases. | ||
| This was something that you were involved with, the lawsuit. | ||
| What can you tell us about it and what the judge's ruling stipulates? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, so Judge Cobb, who's been on the bench since 2021, it was ironic when I was arguing this case with a number of phenomenal lawyers. | |
| It's a real group effort. | ||
| I said the last time I appeared before her was in a case also against the FBI where I was suing to require the disclosure of information by the Bureau. | ||
| And now here it is I'm standing before, also suing the FBI in order to prevent the disclosure of information. | ||
| There was a requirement by the acting deputy Attorney General Emil Bovais ordering the FBI to provide the names and identifying information of all FBI personnel, not just agents, analysts, examiners, staff people, support people who worked on the January 6th prosecution and also an Hamas case, | ||
| a Hamas criminal case up in the Southern District of New York. | ||
| I still haven't heard a good reason why that case is part of this gathering, but it's in that requirement. | ||
| So at first, the FBI, they compiled all the information over the weekend, and on Monday, they sent the information to the Justice Department, but only gave them identifying employee numbers. | ||
| The Department of Justice was very perturbed about that. | ||
| In fact, said that the acting director of the FBI was being insubordinate. | ||
| And while we were in court on Thursday to try and get a TRO to prevent these names from being released, because what we were being told was that these individuals were going to be fired and their names would be released alongside of the notices of termination, | ||
| which it had happened a few days earlier on January 31st, when eight senior officials in the FBI who still had civil service protection were told to either quit or you will be fired. | ||
| And that memo was released. | ||
| Don't know how it was released. | ||
| It was sent from the acting deputy attorney general to the acting FBI director, and someone in the government released it so that these names, these individuals, were stigmatized. | ||
| And in fact, I told the court that notwithstanding my working on FBI cases for 30 years, I didn't know who any of these names were because they just weren't public names, which goes to show the impact that the release of the names could have. | ||
| So we sued narrowly to simply protect the names. | ||
| So while we were in court, the Justice Department reordered the FBI to produce the names, and reluctantly the FBI did. | ||
| We didn't know that till Thursday night as we were negotiating with the government to enter into what we did, a consent agreement yesterday, which the court adopted, that effectively gave us the relief we wanted. | ||
| That the U.S. government is not allowed to release the names of the people on the list, which is thought to be, according to the FBI internal documents, 5,000 to 6,000 people who touched upon the January 6th prosecutions and can't release them without 48 hours or two business days, realistically, to give us an opportunity to come back into court. | ||
| In the meantime, assuming they don't change their mind to release the information, and this goes back to the earlier question of what role Doge has, is it government, is it not? | ||
| We are assuming for purposes of this motion and the consent decree that they are part of this, that they are held to the terms of this, that we are now going to brief a preliminary injunction over the course of the next month, and we will be back in court on March 27th to argue for the preliminary or permanent injunction to block the names. | ||
| Now, it's not to say that the FBI can't fire individuals or the Justice Department. | ||
| There's now these weaponization committees that have been ordered first by an executive order of the president, then by the now Attorney General Pam Bondi. | ||
| We don't know what the standards are that apply to that. | ||
| They talk about seeking out corrupt FBI personnel and whether or not people disobeyed orders when they were pursuing their investigations, which to me sounds fantastical because anyone who understands how the process works, you know, an FBI agent just doesn't open up a case on their own. | ||
| And then they have to go to superiors and then they have to bring the case to the U.S. Attorney's Office. | ||
| They have to go to a grand jury. | ||
| They have to then go to a federal judge. | ||
| I mean, there's so many layers to this case to think that an FBI agent was corrupt in initiating the case, which most likely became known to them because of social media postings that the actual defendant posted, you know, online and then was then turned in is kind of crazy in my view, but we'll see. | ||
| But right now, we have this order in place, so it was a successful effort, and we'll see what the government does in the meantime as we prepare for the preliminary injunction. | ||
| We have time for one last call. | ||
| Pam in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, line for federal employees. | ||
| Good morning, Pam. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I am one of the people that are considering taking that resignation, but I'm told that my pension and my annual leave could be impacted because it's not spelled out there that it's safe to take this without them being impacted. | ||
| Hey, that's a great question, Pam. | ||
| And thank you for you got that far. | ||
| So I know that means you've worked for the U.S. government for a long time. | ||
| So, right, excellent question. | ||
| And people wouldn't normally know this if you're not a federal employee. | ||
| You build up annual leave. | ||
| You build up sick leave. | ||
| There's a dollar value assigned to all of that. | ||
| Can be significant, especially depending on your grade level and how long you've built it up. | ||
| And when you retire, you don't lose all that just because sometimes you hear loser leave. | ||
| I'm trying to remember the phrasing on an early Saturday morning. | ||
| Meaning sometimes there is certain leave, you know, at the end of the year. | ||
| If you don't use it for vacation or whatever, you lose it. | ||
| But most of it accrues. | ||
| And then that dollar value gets assigned, and that gets paid out to you when you leave federal service. | ||
| Same thing for the sick leave. | ||
| Now, the question that Pam raises is an excellent one, and it's what I've been seeing in a lot of the Trump administration executive orders and policies that come out. | ||
| They're not thinking through things sufficiently enough because they're acting too quickly. | ||
| There's an easy answer to Pam's question if they addressed it, but they didn't. | ||
| So, if she accepts this or anyone, does she get her leave paid out? | ||
| Of course she should get her leave paid out. | ||
| Of course, she should get her pension that she's earned. | ||
| But because it's not spelled out in this offer, that question is open. | ||
| And that's why the lawyers need to be involved in the courts to make sure that that question is answered. | ||
| But because there's no answer right now, you know, you got to kind of throw your hands up because it's not likely worth it to risk losing that until you get an answer. | ||
| So please contact a lawyer who's experienced in that. | ||
| Again, don't hesitate to email me. | ||
| I'll help you find one because that wouldn't be me. | ||
| But you're absolutely entitled to having that question factually and legally answered so that your service to our country is properly compensated. | ||
| Our guest is Mark Zade. | ||
| He's a national security attorney. | ||
| You can find him online at markzade.com. | ||
| He's offered a couple times to help anyone who wants to reach out to him, either find another resource or help how he can. | ||
| But Mark, we appreciate your time this morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, Tammy. | |
| We really appreciate it. | ||
| C-SPAN is a wonderful institution. | ||
| We are wrapping up today's program with Open Form. | ||
| If there's a public policy issue or topic you'd like to discuss, you can start calling in now. | ||
| The lines, Republicans, 202-748-8001. | ||
| Democrats, 202-748-8000. | ||
| And Independents, 202-748-8002. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Saturdays, watch American History TV's new series, First 100 Days. | |
| We'll explore the early months of presidential administrations with historians and authors and through the C-SPAN archives. | ||
| We'll look at accomplishments and setbacks and examine how events impacted presidential terms and the nation up to present day. | ||
| Today, we'll look at the first 100 days of Andrew Jackson's presidency. | ||
| Andrew Jackson was elected president in 1828 in a rematch with John Quincy Adams from the 1824 election. | ||
| Mr. Jackson came to office with a vision for the country, but his agenda was stalled by controversy. | ||
| Early issues during his term included states' rights, payment of national debt, tariffs, and treatment of Native Americans. | ||
| Watch American History TV's new series, First 100 Days. | ||
| Today at 7 p.m. Eastern on American History TV on C-SPAN 2. | ||
| Next week, on the C-SPAN networks, the House and Senate are in session. | ||
| The House will consider legislation establishing new penalties for evading U.S. Border Patrol agents in car chases. | ||
| The Senate continues voting on President Trump's cabinet nominees, including Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as Health and Human Services Secretary. | ||
| The chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, will give the semi-annual monetary policy report before two committees, first on Tuesday before the Senate Banking Committee, and then on Wednesday before the House Financial Services Committee. | ||
| Also, C-SPAN continues our comprehensive coverage of confirmation hearings for President-elect Trump's cabinet nominees. | ||
| The Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee will hold hearings for two cabinet nominees. | ||
| On Wednesday, former Oregon Republican Congresswoman Lori Chavez-DeReamer, the nominee for Secretary of Labor. | ||
| And on Thursday, for former businesswoman Linda McMahon, who's a nominee for Secretary of Education. | ||
| Also on Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee will vote on the nomination of Kash Patel for director of the FBI. | ||
| Watch live on the C-SPAN networks or on C-SPAN Now, our free mobile video app. | ||
| Also, head over to C-SPAN.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on demand anytime. | ||
| C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered. | ||
| Washington Journal continues. | ||
| Welcome back. | ||
| We are in open forum until 10 o'clock. | ||
| We will start with Saleh and Beverly Hills. | ||
| Good morning, Saleh. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Thank you for pronouncing my name correctly. | ||
| It's not an easy one. | ||
| I am actually familiar with Mark Zade's work and applaud him on many of the issues where he has stood strong. | ||
| National security is such an important thing. | ||
| The situation going on now that's under so much debate, it seems to me incomprehensible that our American citizens cannot understand the fact that we overspend so dramatically that there will be no future if we keep going in the same direction. | ||
| You can follow the yellow brick road right off the cliff, and that's exactly what's happening. | ||
| As a Harvard-trained economist, an international investment advisor, a professional negotiator, an ambassador. | ||
| In fact, I was on Fox News throughout 9-11 because of also being a Middle East expert and ambassador of goodwill. | ||
| I take very, very strong objection to fighting against ourselves. | ||
| And it seems to be something quite unfortunately that we're doing constantly. | ||
| And it's built into our system. | ||
| Unfortunately, it's built into our system. | ||
| I think the founding fathers, most of whom were quite rich, really wanted the laissez-faire system, and they did construct a government that fights itself. | ||
| But let's understand that the most important word in the United States of America is the word united. | ||
| Let's unite together. | ||
| Our president was elected. | ||
| He does have powers, extraordinary powers. | ||
| Obviously, he is using them. | ||
| And even though people don't seem to like Elon Musk, they quote him as saying, move fast and break things. | ||
| We have a president who moves fast and maybe sometimes breaks hearts and blows minds, but he gets things done. | ||
| And I think that is one of the reasons people so strongly supported him despite many invitations not to do so. | ||
| So let's unite together. | ||
| Let's show respect. | ||
| And let's stop bashing Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg. | ||
| These are people who created their American dream, and it was not easy. | ||
| Anyone studying their lives understand how much they suffered, how much they risked. | ||
| They stuck with it. | ||
| They persevered. | ||
| And we should be grateful that their genius minds are helping us. | ||
| So thank you. | ||
| Thank you for taking the call. | ||
| I applaud anyone who involves themselves in the process because that is what America is about. | ||
| It's about us uniting together and running this country because after all, it is our country, our country of the people, by the people, for the people. | ||
| I would really love if our country was renamed into the United People of the United States. | ||
| We'll move on to Valerie in Michigan, line for Democrats. | ||
| Good morning, Valerie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning. | |
| You know, it's kind of hard to make sense out of all this ridiculous nonsense. | ||
| Everything that lady said is just the opposite. | ||
| She worked for Fox News. | ||
| What other news channel had had to pay out that much money for lies and misinformation? | ||
| And as far as our country, that's right. | ||
| Musk didn't create Tesla, whatever that car company is, and he didn't create the space. | ||
| He got hold of those companies through our tax dollars. | ||
| If they love the country so much like they say in Five the Flag, why do we have corporations on welfare, but we corporate welfare, but we so mad about a mother of two getting food assistance or feeding kids lunch, free lunch, or any of the things. | ||
| It's a shared responsibility. | ||
| It shouldn't go up. | ||
| It should go both ways. | ||
| Spread it out. | ||
| When are we going to see Donald Trump's tax receipt? | ||
| They just treat us like we're stupid. | ||
| We just see and know what's going on. | ||
| Elon Musk was not elected to tear this country apart. | ||
| Trump didn't say he was going to tear the country down. | ||
| He said he was going to trim off the fat in agency, and he got rid of every person responsible for doing that. | ||
| And then they said, well, he don't get to be held accountable for the economy because it's Biden's economy for the first two years that he's got to fix. | ||
| Obama gave him a good economy and he took credit for every positive scene. | ||
| That was Valerie in Michigan. | ||
| Tony in Chapel Hill, Tennessee, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Tony. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, fellow Americans. | |
| Thank you, Tom. | ||
| Thank you, my call. | ||
| I shouldn't want to talk to Mr. Zayd, but I wanted to ask him what he said. | ||
| Snowden was a criminal. | ||
| Tony, we're having a hard time hearing you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, how about now? | |
| There you go. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Better? | |
| Okay. | ||
| Can you still hear me? | ||
| Yes, go ahead, Tony. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, wonderful. | |
| I wanted to ask Zayd if Snowden or Kelsey Manning or any of him were traitors, or did he think they were whistleblowers? | ||
| See, I don't get that because when you give out information from the government that everybody should know, you're a whistleblower. | ||
| And if you're giving away real secrets, that's something else. | ||
| One more thing I'd like to say, and I hate for our country to be so divided. | ||
| I spent a year in Vietnam fighting for what I call freedom. | ||
| Not knowing what the war was really about. | ||
| I still, my heart was in saving my country. | ||
| And all the veterans that are ever in the service, that's all they had in their heart, was to serve their country and do the right thing. | ||
| Now, we've had an old dictator, I'm calling him, because we have no spine in the Senate or the Congress to put this man aside and make him do the right thing. | ||
| So one more thing I have to say. | ||
| I am really, really sad about my country going down here. | ||
| And I'm a 75-year-old man with COPD and my lungs are messed up. | ||
| I'm Agent Orange. | ||
| However, I still love my country, and I wish everyone would get together and think about what's really going on. | ||
| I'm so embarrassed. | ||
| I hate to tell somebody I'm a Southerner. | ||
| Southerners are so uneducated. | ||
| And I don't mean to be detrimental to their attitude or their personalities, but you got to get out there and live and find out what's really going on in this world. | ||
| And I think we lost Tony. | ||
| Wanted to show you a headline from the Washington Post. | ||
| Trump plans to fire Kennedy Center board members, appoint himself as chair. | ||
| This was an announcement that President Trump made last night on Truth Social, saying, at my direction, we are going to make the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., great again. | ||
| I have decided to immediately terminate multiple individuals from the Board of Trustees, including the chairman, who do not share our vision for a golden age in arts and culture. | ||
| We will soon announce a new board with an amazing chairman, Donald J. Trump. | ||
| Just last year, the Kennedy Center featured drag shows specifically targeting our youth. | ||
| This will stop. | ||
| The Kennedy Center is an American jewel and must reflect the brightest stars on its stage and from across, from all across our nation. | ||
| For the Kennedy Center, the best is yet to come. | ||
| Just a few minutes left. | ||
| We'll go to Sue in Virginia, line for Republicans. | ||
| Good morning, Sue. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| I have a comment regarding USAID. | ||
| They just completely ruined their reputation with some of these ridiculous expenditures. | ||
| I was listening to Warren Buffett the other day, and he said that with his companies, you can take a loss in revenue, a loss to the bottom line, but you cannot take a loss to your reputation if the workers there and the Democrats felt so protective of the good programs. | ||
|
unidentified
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And I think they're probably, I'm certain there are good programs within USAID. | |
| They would have maintained the highest standards, the highest ethical levels to protect those programs. | ||
| It is a death knell to any charity in the private sector that comes out and has a corruption scandal like this. | ||
|
unidentified
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People will stop contributing. | |
| They really risk everything when they get sloppy and they lose their reputation. | ||
| Thanks for letting me call. | ||
| Now, Sue in Virginia. | ||
| Valerie in San Antonio, Texas, line for independence. | ||
| Good morning, Valerie. | ||
|
unidentified
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Good morning. | |
| Thank you, C-SPAN. | ||
| I really enjoy all your programming. | ||
| I actually have some hope with the situation because a lot of people aren't happy with it, but they will have to become we the people to change things. | ||
| And I'm seeing about ranked choice voting. | ||
| And people are looking at methods used by McGandy to push back. | ||
| I mean, if they could push back the British Empire, if this is too horrible, the American people, we the people have the power to do something. | ||
| And I hope that the people that want change bad enough will do it. | ||
| That was Valerie in Texas and our last call for this morning's Washington Journal. | ||
| We appreciate our guests and callers who contributed to the conversation. | ||
| We'll be back tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern, 4 a.m. Pacific with another program. | ||
| Until then, enjoy your day. | ||
|
unidentified
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Coming up Sunday morning, the president of Citizens Against Government Waste, Tom Schatz, will talk about government efficiency, waste in federal spending, and efforts by the Trump administration and Elon Musk to overhaul the federal government. | |
| Then, Sky Perryman, President and CEO of the progressive group Democracy Forward, on the legal efforts to challenge the Trump administration's agenda. | ||
| C-SPAN's Washington Journal. | ||
| Join in the conversation live at 7 Eastern Sunday morning on C-SPAN, C-SPAN Now, or online at c-SPAN.org. | ||
| Next week, on the C-SPAN networks, the House and Senate are in session. | ||
| The House will consider legislation establishing new penalties for evading U.S. Border Patrol agents in car chases. | ||
| The Senate continues voting on President Trump's cabinet nominees, including Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as Health and Human Services Secretary. | ||
| The chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, will give the semi-annual monetary policy report before two committees: first on Tuesday before the Senate Banking Committee, and then on Wednesday before the House Financial Services Committee. | ||
| Also, C-SPAN continues our comprehensive coverage of confirmation hearings for President-elect Trump's cabinet nominees. | ||
| The Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee will hold hearings for two cabinet nominees. | ||
| On Wednesday, former Oregon Republican Congresswoman Laurie Chavez-DeReamer, the nominee for Secretary of Labor, and on Thursday, for former businesswoman Linda McMahon, who's a nominee for Secretary of Education. |