CSPAN - Washington Journal 02/04/2025

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Feb. 4, 2025 06:59-10:10 - CSPAN

03:09:34

Washington Journal 02/04/2025

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Main

julie johnson

rep/d 08:40

mark krikorian

17:47

mimi geerges

cspan 32:44

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adriano espaillat

rep/d 00:30

chuck schumer

sen/d 02:00

donald j trump

admin 02:34

karoline leavitt

admin 01:22

marco rubio

admin 01:52

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jeremy brown

00:07

justice neil gorsuch

scotus 00:24

kaitlan collins

cnn 00:06

louie gohmert

rep/r 00:10

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al in delaware

callers 00:06

dawn in colorado

callers 00:11

john in unknown

callers 00:18

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Live today on C-SPAN, at 10 a.m. Eastern, the Senate Finance Committee will vote on the nomination of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be Secretary of Health and Human Services.
		Then at noon, the U.S. House will work on several bills, including a measure on the operation, security, and maintenance of the 9-11 Memorial and Museum, and another bill that would require the Agriculture and Interior Departments to evaluate the use of new aerial wildlands firefighting technology.
		On C-SPAN 2 at 9 a.m. Eastern, Politico hosts a discussion on tariffs and U.S. trade policy.
		Then at 11, Senate lawmakers will hold confirmation votes for Doug Collins to be Secretary of Veterans Affairs and Pam Bondi to be Attorney General.
		And on C-SPAN 3, live at 10:30 Eastern, the Senate Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing on a proposal to permanently classify fentanyl as a Schedule I drug.
		These events also stream live on the free C-SPAN Now video app and online at c-span.org.
		Coming up on Washington Journal, your calls and comments live.
		Then the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies, Mark Krikorian, discusses recent deportations and the broader Trump immigration policy.
		And Gregory Courtie of Bloomberg News on Elon Musk's role and his Department of Government Efficiency.
		Also, Texas Congresswoman Julie Johnson, president of the Democratic freshman class, on her legislative priorities and Democrats' approach to the administration and the GOP Congress.
		Washington Journal is next.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		It's Tuesday, February 4th.
		Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency moved to shutter the U.S. Agency for International Development yesterday.
		Thousands of USAID contractors have been laid off, employees put on leave, and programs shut down around the world.
		Also, the Treasury Department granted Musk's team access to the federal payment system, which handles trillions of dollars in government expenditures.
		The move sparked the resignation of the highest-ranking career official at Treasury.
		We're taking your calls this morning on Elon Musk's influence on government and his Doge actions.
		Do you support or oppose them?
		Republicans, 202748-8001.
		Democrats, 202748-8000.
		Independents, 202-748-8002.
		We have a line set aside for federal employees.
		That number is 202-748-8003.
		You can use that same line to text us, include your first name in your city-state, and you can post your comments on social media, facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and X at C-SPANWJ.
		Welcome to today's Washington Journal.
		We'll start with this article in USA Today.
		On the front page, it says, Musk puts employees at USAID on leave.
		Foreign aid agency heads to quote the wood chipper.
		The Trump administration moved swiftly Monday to dismantle the USAID, putting hundreds of employees on leave and terminating contracts after tech billionaire Elon Musk said he was in the process of shutting down the agency that oversees foreign aid.
		Musk claimed on social media early Monday morning that he ran the extraordinary move by President Donald Trump and had his full backing.
		It raised immediate objections from Democrats who argued Trump lacks the constitutional authority to eliminate USAID, which was established by Congress as an independent agency in 1998.
		And this is, let's take a look at what Secretary of State Marco Rubio said about closing USAID when he was asked by reporters during his trip in Central America yesterday.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		Well, my issue, as I said, is, yeah, there are things that USAID that we do through USAID that we should continue to do, and we will continue to do.
		But everything they do has to be in alignment with the national interest in the foreign policy of the United States.
		And the attitude that USAID has adopted over the years is, no, we are independent of the national interest.
		We fund programs irrespective of whether it's aligned or not aligned with the foreign policy.
unidentified		That's ridiculous.
unidentified		These are taxpayer dollars.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		Every penny that we spend in foreign aid needs to be in furtherance and aligned with the national interest in the national and the foreign policy of the United States.
		So this is not about ending the programs that USAID does per se.
		There are things that it does that are good, and there are things that it does that we have strong questions about.
unidentified		It's about the way it operates as an entity.
		And they're supposed to take direction from the State Department policy direction.
		They do not.
		Not only do they not take policy direction, they're completely uncooperative.
		When you ask questions, when you try to go in and find out, okay, what does this program do?
		Who's getting the money?
		Why was this funded?
		Why are we doing this?
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		Why aren't you coordinating with the embassy or the State Department?
unidentified		Their attitude is, we don't have to answer to you because we are independent.
		We answer to no one.
		Well, that's not true, and that will no longer be the case.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Secretary of State Marco Rubio, he is now acting head of USAID.
		This is the Hill, Marco Rubio, taking over as acting head of USAAD amid agency turmoil.
		And we are going to hear quickly just before we take your calls from Senator Andy Kim.
		He's a Democrat of New Jersey.
		He once worked at USAID and he talked to reporters.
		Here he is.
unidentified		About 20 years ago, when I first came to work for the federal government, I walked through these doors right behind me.
		I started off my career in public service at USAID.
		And I just had to say how proud I was to be able to serve the country, how proud I was to work for USAID, to be part of the foreign policy of this country.
		And I have to tell you, it was really tough today walking through these same doors 20 some years later, only to see it shut down to employees.
		Now, I gotten all weekend long, I was getting calls and phone calls from people that I worked with at USAID before, people that are there now, people who have been disrespected by this administration that pushes them to the side, basically calls in criminals, and tells them not to show up to work today.
		In fact, I went inside trying to speak to the acting administrator Gray.
		Unfortunately, I was not able to meet with him, and I'm going to continue to try today to be able to meet with the acting administrator because I want to hear straight from him.
		You know, these are the orders that he gave.
		You have mysterious people within this new administration sending out emails across the entirety of USAID telling them not to show up.
		I talked to the security guard.
		I talked to the security guard just in there.
		He said he has been given specific orders to prevent employees of USAID from entering the building today.
		And I just find that to be absolutely ridiculous.
		This is no way to govern.
		This is no way to treat public servants.
		And this is no way for us to conduct our foreign policy as a country.
		So I just had to show up today, see it with my own eyes, the chaos of this administration and just their attacks upon public servants in our country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That was New Jersey Senator Andy Kim, a Democrat outside of the USAID office building.
		In case you want to go to the website, usaid.gov, it has been taken offline.
		This is what you will get if you go to usaid.gov.
		Has been taken down.
		And let's start with calls.
		This is Matt in Maryland, a federal employee.
		Good morning, Matt.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Let's not sugarcoat what's going on.
		This is a coup.
		The richest man in the world has been given access to basically the United States main bank, the way that we pay people's Social Security, the way that we pay basically for everything.
		He's also been given the ability to take one of our most important assets for foreign diplomacy that keeps us out of war offline.
		Why?
		Who knows?
		But he's been given that access.
		With that access and access to the Office of Personnel Management, he has information that no one else has.
		He's a federal contractor.
		He has no security clearance.
		He couldn't get a security clearance.
		And here we are.
		He has access to all that information, giving access to all that information, our information that federal employees have tried to secure forever to other people who don't have that information.
		He's a federal contractor to us, but also he has contracts with China and I'm sure many of our other foreign enemies.
		This is a coup, and we need to wake up and say this is not normal.
		Even if you voted for Donald Trump, this is not normal.
		Wake up, everyone.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Matt, before you go, since you're a federal employee, can you tell us what's going on with you, with your agency?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What's happening?
unidentified		I work for the Department of Defense, and it's never been more precarious in my over 20 years of working in the federal government.
		Morale is terrible, which is the point.
		The emails that we received from some janky server that teenagers working for Elon Musk put together to try to encourage all federal employees to quit, we're not going to quit.
		We took an oath to the Constitution, the Constitution that Donald Trump does not believe in.
		And you haven't seen anything because the federal workforce cares about America, cares about America.
		It does not care about Vladimir Putin or whoever the heck Donald Trump and Elon Musk care most about.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And, Matt, have you been given that buyout option?
unidentified		Yes, we received it from what we thought was a phishing email, as we find out, sent from people who infiltrated the Office of Personnel Management on behalf of Elon Musk.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but that's a real offer that you're going to have to decide on, right?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Don't you have a.
unidentified		It's a real offer, but everyone that I've talked to has doubled down and said, I care about America.
		I don't trust anyone involved.
		This is a trap.
		And as details have sprinkled out about this, no one that I know, certainly no one who works for me or no one in my organization plans to take this because they don't trust anyone involved.
		And it doesn't seem legit.
		There are processes to do this kind of thing, and they're not following them.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it, Matt.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Ed in Lawrenceville, Georgia, Republican.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm glad I'm the second caller because that first caller that you just talked to doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
		Musk does not have any power at all.
		Everything that he's doing is suggesting him and his investigators report back to President Trump and they decide if that is good or bad.
		If it's bad and taxpayer money's being used for illicit purposes like giving condoms to the Middle East, I mean, just all the things that go on, billions of dollars wasted all over the decades.
		President Trump is putting an end to it.
		Musk is doing this absolutely free.
		He's not getting paid to do this.
		He's doing this on his own time.
		This man wants to help America.
		That guy's in the Defense Department, that first caller.
		Oh, my God.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, Ed.
		I just wanted to ask you, when you said that he's not making any money, which he's not making a salary, the concept of his contracts with the federal government.
		How do you react to that?
		Do you see that that could be a conflict of interest for Elon Musk?
		That he could make more money for his companies.
unidentified		Yeah, I think that his contracts is a legitimate thing.
		And they were approved and they were signed.
		And it doesn't change anything.
		All he's doing is going after the waste, fraud, and abuse.
		And he doesn't have the power to do anything.
		He's got to report to the president.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this is CNN.
		Elon Musk is serving as a, quote, special government employee.
		That's according to the White House.
		It says that he's officially serving under President Trump as a special government employee.
		The designation means Musk, who has been a force within the new Trump administration, is not a volunteer, but also not a full-time federal employee.
		According to a Justice Department summary, a special government employee is, quote, anyone who works or expected to work for the government for 130 days or less in a 365-day period.
		Musk is not being paid, a person familiar with his employment told CNN.
		Musk has a top secret security clearance that that official told CNN.
		He's the world's richest man, became an ardent supporter of Trump during the campaign, and has an office on the White House campus.
		Here's Jason in Alabama, Democrat.
		Good morning, Jason.
unidentified		Good morning.
		How you doing?
		Good.
		I think we need to be real about why Elon Musk is there.
		Elon Musk is there because he gave a bunch of money to Trump and bought Twitter to elevate everything Trump is about.
		The previous caller talking about, oh, he doesn't have any power.
		If Elon doesn't have any power, why is he there?
		He's there because he gave money.
		He's there because he wants to do.
		He's on a mission to do what Trump wants him to do.
		And as far as him not making money, he gets access to all the data of all of us.
		That's been the whole fight with all these government employees is giving him access.
		And as far as the buyout, the buyout is a tricky.
		Right now, the government funding is riding on a continuing resolution that ends in March.
		Any government employee dumb enough to believe Trump can buy them out until September when their funding ends in March is an idiot.
		Not to mention the maximum amount of voluntary separation incentive that can be given for government employees is $25,000.
		So the Mac Trump, even if he could pay them through September, he couldn't give them more than $25,000.
		And I would imagine the majority of the people he's trying to get rid of make more than $25,000 in eight months.
		So all of this is this sickly fantastic right-wing fever dream that the government is filled with demons.
		And the truth be told, they're regular people doing their jobs to make sure that things run well.
		And unfortunately, right-wing voters don't want the government to run well.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Maurice in Dunkirk, Maryland, Independent.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, I just wanted to say, I mean, using terms like it's a coup, you don't get a choice in a coup.
		The guys, I mean, if they're giving you the choice of a buyout or to leave, they're not making you leave.
		So why can't we just, I mean, the USAID was created in 1961 by executive order.
		So executive order is going to be turned over, and they're just basically putting on the brakes and stopping the crazy spending.
		You keep up the good stuff that it does, but you eliminate the bad stuff.
		So people want to make it about Elon.
		It's not about him.
		I mean, he's just doing his job.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I just want to clarify something.
		So yes, you're right.
		1961, JFK did create it by executive order, but it was in 1998 that Congress established USAID as an independent agency.
unidentified		I understand, but President Trump, as the executive, has the right to do what he's doing.
		But let's just check to see what's going on.
		And then we, you know, it's not totally eliminated yet, but it does help to be able to cut spending where you can, especially if it's wasteful spending.
		That's all I'm saying.
		I mean, people are just so emotional about it.
		But when you have a choice, choice and coup don't go together.
		But anyway, it's a good conversation to have.
		So thank you very much.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Maurice.
		This is Michael, a Republican in Smithfield, North Carolina.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mami.
		How's it been going?
		Good.
		Well, the holidays were very tragic, but I'll get right on to the topic this morning.
		You know, and I was talking about we've had one tragic event after another.
		It just seems like the country needs some healing right now.
		And I just want to just send a prayer out to everyone that's been affected by these terrible events that's happened with aviation and terrorism and things going on, school shootings once again.
		But once again, I'd like to see Bill Gates get involved.
		I don't understand why we only have just, you know, one or two voices coming out of the business world.
		If we could put politics aside, and I'm sure Bill Gates did not give money to the Trump campaign or CPAC or anything like that, I would just assume that was probably not the case.
		But if we could just put that aside, giving money, not giving money, voting for someone, not voting for someone, he's our president.
		And if he could just open the invitation to Bill Gates, I think that would cool a lot of heads on the left.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So, Michael, this is a Michael that used to be in Fort Oaks, North Carolina, right?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He's moving around and confusing me.
unidentified		No, I only moved once, Mimi.
unidentified		Come on.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're in Smithfield now.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
unidentified		Yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, got it.
		So let's go back to Doge Elon Musk.
		Were you, do you welcome the things that you've seen him do so far in these first two weeks?
unidentified		Well, on a national basis, yes.
		I know a couple of the first caller, I'm very concerned about what's going on, what he's saying.
		I hope things will get better for him.
		And, you know, I don't really know what to say about that.
		We're only being told, but so much and the results and things like that.
		And I would really wish the topic could have been on tariffs this morning because there's a lot of heat on tariffs.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is also going on.
		That's another big topic.
		You're right.
		So let's take a look at White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt.
		She was asked about whether Musk or anyone working with him had passed a background check.
		Take a look.
unidentified		Caitlin.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Can you confirm that Elon Musk is a special government employee?
		Yes, what kind of security clearance does he have?
		I can confirm he's a special government employee.
		I can also confirm that he has abided by all applicable federal laws.
		As for his security clearance, I'm not sure, but I can check back with you.
		Did he pass a background check?
unidentified		Do you know?
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about the security clearance, but I can check.
kaitlan collins ▲ ● ▼		And do you know about anyone who's on his team that was at USAID this weekend or at Treasury Department, whether they also have security clearance?
unidentified		I don't know.
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		But again, I can check on that for you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And now to Amanda in North Attleboro, Massachusetts.
		Democrat.
		Good morning, Amanda.
unidentified		Hi, how are you today?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Good.
		I'm calling because I'm concerned about how our Constitution was written and how our government is supposed to be run, our federal government.
		We have three branches of government: we have the legislative, executive, and the judicial.
		All three are separate.
		And Elon Musk is getting his hand into something that the legislative branch should be taking care of.
		If there is a problem with spending, it has to be done in the legislative branch.
		The money that he's holding on to is the money that our taxpayer money.
		On top of that, he now has access to every American who has received federal money or paid into the federal government, not only their social security numbers, but their bank account.
		And we don't even know if it's secure.
		And I just want to tell Republicans, for those who voted for him and disagree with this, please go to fivecalls.org, number fivecalls.org, and put your zip code in and call your representatives, your U.S. senators, representatives, and tell them this is not right.
		My personal information is no longer secure.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Amanda, and this is in Hayward, Wisconsin, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Rick, you're next.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		I fully support this Doge effort.
		I think that we have to start somewhere.
		You know, I get it that, you know, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, Democrat, Republican, whatever.
		That first caller, he was just AWOL, if you ask me.
		But don't we need to start somewhere with the exactly what it says, Department of Government Efficiency.
		That's why we have so many problems in the country because we're inefficient.
		I was for Vivek also.
		Unfortunately, he got put in the back seat or something, and now he wants to run for governor, whatever.
		He's a very smart man.
		You know, I don't care.
		If he was a Democrat, I would still think he was a very smart man.
		So I just don't understand why we draw the line on what party you're from.
		I've called before, and I voted for Obama back in those days, and I voted for Trump.
		You know, I'm independent.
		I don't think that it's right that there's a Democrat and Republican.
		And a lot of times, C-SPAN spins us into racial issues.
		And that, I think, is wrong because there should be some effort to try to keep people from bringing race into these things because I don't care if you're black or white or Native American or whatever.
		Anyway, you guys do a great job, but I feel like I need to know.
		Sometimes it's hard to know what subjects are coming up.
		Do you only take calls like once from each person in a 30-day period, or can you call whenever you want?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		No, it's every 30 days, Rick.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Just to give up.
unidentified		Yeah, I'll take it.
		Because I've had a hard time getting through sometimes.
		And this goes back to when Vivek was.
		Anyway, go ahead.
		Take your other calls.
		Thank you.
		Have a great day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is John in California, Republican Line.
		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		Everybody is all excited about Elon Musk.
al in delaware ▲ ● ▼		Almost every president has had outside advisors that were friends or acquaintances or college roommates.
unidentified		Or in this case, a guy that had done real well in the private sector.
		They used to call it the kitchen cabinet.
		But the man that said Musk doesn't have any power is exactly right.
		He goes to Trump.
		He tells Trump what's going on.
		In this case, he said this isn't just a bad apple.
		It's a bowl of worms.
		And what happens with this aid?
		Number one, it goes to a lot of countries that absolutely hate the United States.
		Number two, it goes to a lot of despots and dictators, and it doesn't get to where it belongs.
john in unknown ▲ ● ▼		Number three, and this is the big scandal about this foreign aid and whatnot, is it goes to governments and it'll come back in the form of political donations to our politicians.
unidentified		It needs to be put under the auspices of the State Department and it needs to be overseen by the Secretary of State, whether he's a Democrat or a Republican.
		It doesn't need to be this little agency that's going to decide where these billions and billions of dollars go.
		We are 37 trillion in debt.
john in unknown ▲ ● ▼		We are not going to be able to tax the rich, as the Democrats keep preaching, out of this.
unidentified		It's going to sink the country if we don't change it.
		There is a huge amount of waste in almost every segment.
		The Defense Department guy that called, what about all these G12 level employees of the government making $150,000, $200,000 a year that weren't even going to work during the last four years since COVID?
		Is that kind of wasteful?
		I think it is.
		And that's what Elon Musk has petitioned to try to clean up.
		He's going to check it out.
		He's going to check back with Trump.
		And as the guy from Massachusetts said, we've got to start somewhere.
		We cannot continue.
		The guy from the Defense Department that said, oh, morale is very low.
		Well, who's been running the country for the last four years if morale is so low?
		The federal government is bloated beyond belief.
		Money goes where we don't know.
		And we've got to change that.
		It's got to change.
		We will sink in this $37 trillion debt if we don't.
		And yeah, a lot of people aren't going to like it, but that's just the I would rather do that than die under this $37 trillion in debt.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it, John.
		And here's Newsweek about USAID.
		It says this is the map.
		It shows where it spends the most money.
		And this is the map right here.
		You can take a look if you'd like to.
		You can press on each one and see.
		It says that the U.S. is by far the world's largest provider of humanitarian aid.
		USAID administers billions of dollars in humanitarian development and security assistance in more than 100 countries.
		The U.S. spends less than 1% of its budget on foreign assistance, a smaller share overall than some other countries.
		And this is Taylor in Knoxville, Tennessee, Democrat.
		Taylor, you're next.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		Okay, so first, for any moderates or conservatives, I suggest you invest in some earplugs because you're going to hear the weeping and wailing like you've never heard from the left.
		All right.
		Second, these people's gravy train with biscuit wheels has hopped the tracks.
		Their livelihoods are at stake.
		It happens in the private sector all the time, not so much in the federal government.
		They're going to have to go get jobs.
		Frank Zappa had a song called Wind Up Working in a Gas Station.
		I suggest you give it a listen.
		It's a good one.
		Elon Musk and Doge, I think I'm not super up to date on what he's doing, but if it's exploratory, great.
		And these people probably have a SpaceX t-shirt in the back of their closet because he was a darling of the left about five to ten years ago.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this is the Washington Post with this.
		It says, Trump preps order to dismantle Education Department.
		It says President Trump is preparing an executive order aimed at eventually closing the Education Department and in the short term, dismantling it from within, according to three people briefed on its contents.
		The draft order acknowledges that only Congress can shut down the department and instead directs the agency to begin to diminish itself.
		These people said, it said that that work is underway already.
		The new administration has been trying to reduce the workforce by putting scores of employees on administrative leave and pressuring staff to voluntarily quit.
		Roughly 20 people with Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency, known as Doge, have been working inside the Education Department, looking to cut spending and staff.
		And it says at least some Doge staffers have gained access to multiple sensitive internal systems, including a financial aid data set that contains the personal information for millions of students enrolled in the federal student aid program.
		That's at the Washington Post if you'd like to see the rest of that.
		And this is Mary Independent in Richland, Washington.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi.
		What aggravates me so much is the people who call in and don't realize that everything, the democracy is going away.
		The people that hold the purse is the Congress.
		When Elon Musk got all of that information, that's all of your social security numbers, all your information on yourself, the people before you, your grandchildren.
		And he, the only reason he got it was because he paid $390 million to get Trump elected.
		And sure, there's other people in there that are giving him, oh, well, how can I say it?
		Like information, this and that.
		But as the first person that they didn't like called, Elon Musk makes his cars in China.
		He's been to Russia, and who knows where he goes because he has his own private claim.
		He's the richest man in the world.
		And the other thing is, he doesn't have it.
		I don't know where in the Constitution or in the legislature, in any of the papers, but I thought that he had to be voted in, not just given permission.
		And then they fired the guys that wouldn't give him access to our top security.
		So everybody that doesn't read or doesn't pay attention needs to pay attention.
		It's only been two weeks and people are going broke.
		It's crazy.
		You know, read that paper on 2025.
		It'll scare the hell out of you.
		And he's doing just what he said.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That's Project 2025.
unidentified		Huh?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Project 2025?
unidentified		Yeah.
		And I really, you know, when Trump says something, like he said, you know, he was going to be a dictator.
		I took him, you have to take him for what he says.
		You know, I don't know what these other people hear, but that's the way I feel about it.
		And I think that the Congress and the senators and the people that love this country and my father and my husband and all those who fought for this country, I think this is a dogma and shame.
		And I don't want to lose my democracy.
		And I don't want to get all the people in the world mad at us.
		We've never taken countries from other people about Greenland and the other stuff.
		But I'll get off the phone, Mimi.
		You have a wonderful day.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mary, let's hear from President Trump.
		He was asked about the legality of unilaterally shutting down an independent agency of the government.
		Here's what he said.
unidentified		We'll take an act of Congress to do away with USAID or people in the U.S.
unidentified		I don't know.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		Not when it comes to fraud.
		If there's fraud, these people are lunatics.
		And if it comes to fraud, you wouldn't have an act of Congress.
		And I'm not sure that you would anyway.
		But we just want to do the right thing.
		It's something that should have been done a long time ago.
		It went crazy during the Biden administration.
		They went totally crazy what they were doing and the money they were giving to people that shouldn't be getting it and to agencies and others that shouldn't be getting it.
		It was a shame.
		So they're tremendous fraud.
		But we'll be doing a report.
		We'll be giving you that report at the appropriate time.
unidentified		Yeah, on the first term, though, USAID was something that you liked in some respects.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		I love the concept of it.
unidentified		Yeah.
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		I love the concept.
		But they turned out to be radical left lunatics.
		And the concept of it is good, but it's all about the people.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Back to the phones now to Mark, a Democrat in Westwood, New Jersey.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Mark.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for C-SPAN.
		I just want to give people a heads up because they voted for Trump because prices are so high.
		Well, they're about to get a lot higher, folks.
		These tariffs are a ridiculous idea.
		And giving, you know, an oligarch like Elon Musk access to all our information, access to the Treasury Department, that just seems insane to me.
		I mean, you don't do things like that.
		But, you know, this is what people voted for.
		And they're going to have a very rude awakening because they never want to cut the things that need to be cut, like the ridiculous waste of the bloated Pentagon.
		They always want to cut education and Medicaid and food stamps and things that help people.
		I mean, it's just a crying shame that Americans, you know, voted for a crooked businessman, and now he's got all his other crooked businessmen friends in there to Go ahead and remake this country into their kind of utopia where they can do anything they want.
		It's a fact that Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos have hundreds of lawsuits against them because they've hurt their employees, won't let them organize, and that's all going to go away.
		And that's what it's all about.
		They've bought access.
		And our government has been for sale to the highest bidder for a long time.
		And it's just now it's an overdrive.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Aaron in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Dale Trump, Mimi.
		I think it is wonderful what Musk and Trump are doing for our country.
		It's a genetics here to see the government operating, you know, with full transparency and faith of the American people, the USAID, the terrorists.
		It's all great.
		I don't think we're doing enough.
		They're not doing enough.
		They need to address these school shootings in America.
		I think these American parents are absolutely betrayed for sending their kids to school every day where they have to exist in the threat of the deer of death from their school days.
		We need to address that.
		We need legislation that's going to address school shootings in America.
		Dale Trump, America.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		There was some conversation about Elon Musk's level of security clearance.
		And this is what is in the Guardian.
		This is from December of last year.
		It says that Elon Musk will not receive the highest level government security clearance.
		SpaceX had been advised to not seek the same, that top secret clearance over his drug use and contacts with foreign nationals.
		It says he's unlikely to receive government security clearances if he so applied, even as his SpaceX launch company Blast Military and Spy Agency payloads into orbit.
		According to a report, he is the first person to exceed $400 billion in self-made personal wealth.
		We'll find more information about that as far as what he currently holds as a security clearance, if it's a top secret or not.
		And we'll talk to Anthony in Newport Ritchie, Florida, Independent Line.
unidentified		Good morning, Mimi.
		Thanks for taking the call.
		I am a younger guy.
		I'm an independent with some very strong left-leaning tendencies when it comes to American force projection and other international policy, but I'm pretty fiscally and socially conservative.
		So I often don't really like where the national conversation goes around the Doge questions and the shutting down of USAID.
		I really didn't know what this agency did.
		It's taken a long time for me to read and research a bit so that I understand a little bit more.
		And the one bit of context that I've found that has helped me kind of understand what's going on here and evaluate with a bit of a cooler head was that USAID was part of American power projection overseas.
		They've been involved in attempts to destabilize the Cuban government.
		There were some very unsavory things done with the sterilization of indigenous folk in Peru.
		At the same time, that type of aid went out to completely legitimate causes as well, causes that I definitely think are well worthwhile.
		So, I mean, for folks who are a little bit worried about, you know, neo-imperialism or neocolonialism, I wonder why there's so much outcry over this agency being reined in a bit.
		At the same time, I understand because I think that the shutting down of USAID Kind of has an overlap with the tariffs, where we kind of see a global trade order starting to become more regionalized and more focused on trade protectionism.
		We're entering another season of that.
		And America, as many listeners know, has had a long history of trade protectionism, particularly in the early 1900s.
		And tariffs can work in the long run, and they can also make things really tough in the short run.
		I would encourage folks to go check out an Economics Explained YouTube channel where Can Tariffs Actually Work is the title.
		It was informative to me, and it's just helping me kind of think through a lot of these issues in a way that's, I don't know, everyone's freaked out right now, and I get that.
		But I think, you know, now's the time to recommit to democracy and to becoming, you know, informed citizens as best we can.
		And I think that means trying to see the good in things.
		I didn't vote for Trump.
		I dislike him, but I'm trying to see the good in what he could possibly be doing instead of just demonizing.
		So thanks for taking my call.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Anthony, can you tell us how old you are?
		You said you were young.
		How young?
unidentified		I just turned 30, so not as young as I used to be.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And a couple of some information for you on USAID.
		As far as the mission, it leads international humanitarian and development arm of the U.S. government, established in 1961.
		The workforce totals more than 10,000, with approximately two-thirds of that workforce serving overseas.
		In 2023, USAID provided assistance to approximately 130 countries.
		That's according to the Congressional Research Service.
		Regarding the budget of USAID for the, so this would be fiscal year 2023, $40 billion in combined appropriations, representing more than one-third of the funds provided in the fiscal 23 Department of State Foreign Operations and Related Programs Appropriation, and international food aid provided in the agriculture appropriation.
		This is Kathleen in Georgetown, Delaware, Democrat.
unidentified		Good morning, Amy, and everybody out there.
		I have a concern.
		I saw something that was kind of odd.
		I don't know if anybody else happened to see this, but there was a rally.
		And at the end, everybody wasn't certain that Eli Musk gave the Nazi salute.
		And it was kind of, I saw that, and it sure did look like one.
		But recently, I saw a rally that was going on, I believe it was in Germany.
		And he was up on stage, jumping up and down in his arms waving as a neo-Nazi celebrator or whatever.
		A neo-Nazi, Elon Musk.
		Now, it makes me wonder: do we have a Nazi in the White House with access to everybody in the country's surface and financial information?
		There's everything about us.
		I don't think there's ever been a president who ever took the authority to go and gather all this kind of information on the citizens of this country.
		Now, like I said, I'm not Elon Musk.
		They've given Trump $3 million, whatever.
		And then all of a sudden, they're all buddy-buddy arms over arms.
		So Elon Musk interjects himself into the White House.
		Trump makes a position department specifically for him.
		And then it's like, where is this guy coming from?
		He just decided and jumped.
		It's like that's so buddy-bunny.
		Their minds think alike.
		Money, money, money.
		How to save it, how to send it, how to make it.
		And the thing, like I said, he's a friend of neo-Nazis jumping up and down crazy wild, like real happy about it.
		He did give the Nazis salute at that rally here.
		And it's like we might have a Nazi in the White House gathering up all the information he can on every citizen in this country.
		So I don't know if anybody else taught that.
		A lot of people love him and anything, but I'm a little bit leery of what's going on.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Kathleen.
		And I'll just remind people that we do have a line set aside for federal employees.
		That is 202748-8003.
		If you work for USAID or you're a contractor for USAID, especially, give us a call.
		We'd like to hear your impressions of what's going on.
		This is the Senator Elizabeth Warren, a Democrat of Massachusetts, wrote a letter to Treasury Secretary Besant.
		And here's a portion of what she wrote to him about what's happening at the Treasury Department.
		She said this: The Musk team's unprecedented demand for total access to the system reportedly caused serious concern at the department, particularly given that the system has historically been closely held because it includes sensitive personal information on millions of Americans and sends out virtually every federal payment, including payments that are critical for the economy and for national security.
		Controlling the system could allow the Trump administration to, quote, unilaterally and illegally cut off payments for millions of Americans, putting at risk the financial security of families and businesses based on political favoritism or the whims of Mr. Musk and those on his team who have worked their way inside.
		That's Senator Elizabeth Warren writing to Treasury Secretary Besant.
		We'd like to hear your thoughts on that and the influence of Elon Musk of Doge.
		Do you support it?
		David, in Minnesota, Republican, what do you think?
unidentified		Well, I think we've got to kind of set back and realize what's going on.
		When you sit down and think on this USA aid is that he is?
		They're looking to see because, like they say, that there's money being spent to what was done for the wrong purpose, and it's been going on for years.
		And the biggest thing is that first thing out the left was, oh well, he's going to affect social security and he's going to affect this, and social security has nothing to do with U.s aid.
		So I don't know where they come up.
		There's too much, there's too much hatred in this country to the left and right.
		And how do we, how can we actually unite people to get into the facts of how much money is being wasted or spent for things, what we shouldn't even be spending it on?
		And yes, there is.
		We have our checks and balances in government, but it's like the tariffs to Canada and Mexico.
		Already Canada and Mexico backed off and Mexico has to control their border coming in.
		Why should these people be allowed to come into Mexico to go to the United States?
		They could stop the flow there.
		In Canada, the same Thing.
		People can fly to Canada and then they come across our border in the United States.
		So there's the tariff part of it is that these countries can control a lot for the United States to prevent this.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, David.
		And here's Joe in Baltimore, Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		It's interesting you mentioned Elizabeth Warren because I wanted to ask just everyone who's listening, has this ever happened to you?
		You file your taxes.
		You're going around trying to figure out what to sign up for.
		You're going on TurboTax for other websites.
		It's frustrating that you have to pay for it.
		And you say to yourself, why do I have to figure out how much I owe the IRS?
		They're going to get mad if I don't pay an amount.
		They already know how much I have to pay.
		Why don't they just tell me how much I have to pay?
		So a couple years ago, the IRS started doing something they called direct file, which is a system that will just tell you how much you have to pay so that you don't have to go use TurboTax and pay additional money to file your taxes.
		Now, Elon Musk and his Doge boys have gone in and they've shut down Direct File.
		And what I want to know is what about this is governmental efficiency.
		We had an agency that was using its data and connecting that data to people directly so that they could save money.
		And now that's shut down.
		And they talk about how they're getting rid of trans comic books in Ecuador or something, but it's like social issue bread and circuses while they're doing things of economic significance that they're hiding.
		TurboTax Intuit gave a million dollars to Trump's campaign.
		And so all I'm seeing is patronage here for corporate welfare queens.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And this is a federal employee in Alexandria, Virginia.
		Mike, good morning.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		I'm flabbergasted, man.
		This whole thing that Elon Musk is doing right now is just on its face, so illegal.
		And just as a Fed, I am trained to do the ethical and right things because, you know, we took an oath.
		Where's his oath?
		This guy came in.
		He's a special government employee in quotes.
		He's got a max capacity of 130 days to do all the damage that he can do before he has to leave.
		But on what legal authority is he doing all of this stuff?
jeremy brown ▲ ● ▼		We're getting harassing emails from an email address we all thought was spam.
unidentified		And it just, there's no signature block, so he's violating digital and any communication laws that we have right now.
		Like, he's running around unchecked, and I don't hear a freaking thing from my elected officials.
		I don't hear anything other than, well, guys, we're just going to evaluate.
		And then you have heads of agencies dictating payment policy and saying that Congress is going to.
		How can you say that?
		How can you honestly look people in the face?
		This is their livelihood.
		How can you just overtly lie to people like this?
		That's my question.
		My call is out to the.
		Yeah, go ahead.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		No, I was going to ask what do those emails say?
		You said we're getting harassing emails.
		What are they saying?
unidentified		So, yeah, the fork in the road.
		The very first one that we got said, hey, reply to this email by hitting yes.
		And we all thought it was spam.
		We sent it to our cybersecurity folks.
		They didn't know what was going on.
		And then we get one that just starts out saying, hey, guys, you should go ahead and take a vacation.
		You are authorized to work a second job.
		The verbiage is on the internet.
		It's telling us to break the law.
		It's saying you can go out and you can open a second business.
		You can have another job.
		Don't worry about it.
		We're going to pay you through September.
		Yeah, because this guy's track record over at Twitter where he did the exact same thing and stiffed over 800 people is going to hold up.
		I cannot wait for the reckoning.
		I cannot wait for the lawsuits and leading this guy out in handcuffs.
		Honestly, I'm flabbergasted.
jeremy brown ▲ ● ▼		I'm beyond angry.
unidentified		And I don't speak for all the federal employees here.
		I really don't.
		I speak for me.
		But I can tell you the sentiment right now is we are angry.
		We are so upset that this is happening.
		Can you tell us what agency you're at?
		I'm in a DOD entity, and I work in D&D.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So what do you think of- Okay, so let me ask you this.
		And I know you can't, you can just answer for yourself.
		But what do you think would be the impact if a lot of people took the package in your agency, in your office?
		Would the mission change or would it just be a huge savings in taxes for the American people?
unidentified		Man, I wish I could say it would be a huge savings, but I can tell you the line being put out right now is if anybody takes that resignation, their position will go away.
		So if you have somebody that's managing a program that has a lot of impact on something and they go away, that billet gets absorbed back into the system.
		They may or may not backfill it.
		And here's the other thing to think about.
		As people decide if they want to take this resignation lie or not, whenever they leave, I don't think everybody understands what the federal hiring process is like.
		So to backfill somebody who's managing, let's say something that it's infrastructure related, right?
		These are the guys that are in charge of safety for infrastructure projects around the country or whatnot.
		And he leaves, well, they have somebody that's like maybe qualified to get in there, but they have to backfill that position as soon as they can because otherwise it's just going to be this unmanned thing.
		So no, the impact is you're going to have a diminished workforce and it's going to be backfilled with a bunch of yes men that maybe or may or may not be qualified.
		And it's just so frustrating.
		And I just, I cannot see.
		And here's the thing.
		Here's one more thing.
		And I'm sorry.
		I'm a conservative and I cannot wait to vote blue.
		I really can't because of just the overreach that this is happening.
		I am.
		Yeah.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mike.
		Well, keep us updated.
		Like, call us back in like 30 days and let us know what's happening, okay?
unidentified		Okay.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Donna in Salem, Missouri, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, everyone.
		I am on the older side, so I've witnessed pretty much in the way of different political parties over the years.
		And, you know, I've been where I've lived paycheck to paycheck, and I've lived where I've been a little bit more on the affluent side.
		But, you know, most people have to realize the government is on a budget, just like every one of us, unless people are extremely wealthy and they don't have to worry about budget.
		But the majority of the people have to worry about budgets.
		So why shouldn't our government?
dawn in colorado ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand how people are getting upset because the new administration wants to get rid of spending that does not help the American people.
unidentified		This U.S. aid organization.
		Too much waste.
		All Doge is trying to do is go in and expose the areas that the government is abusing our tax dollars.
		I don't understand why Americans, I don't care if you're party affiliation, don't understand that we have to get rid of that excess spending.
		The American people are very big-hearted, and we contribute a lot to charity when we can afford it.
		So if we can get our economy back to tip-top shape, then the American people have these big hearts, and they will go out and fund the organizations that they feel will help people that aren't as privileged as Americans.
		So again, if you don't have to live on a budget, well, good for you.
		But the majority of us people do have to live on budgets.
		So please just keep that in mind.
		And the gentleman that works for the government or possibly laid off now, you know, I feel really bad for him.
		I do.
		Nobody likes to lose their job.
		Again, if you've ever worked in corporate America, which I didn't prefer to.
		I liked small businesses.
		I did accounting.
		But if you ever work for corporate America and a new CEO comes in, what are they going to do?
		They're going to put people in that they trust, that they know, that they also know can do the job.
		So again, they're just coming in.
		They're putting in the people that they trust.
		They already know they're going to do the job for them.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's take a look at what President Trump said when he was asked about Elon Musk and his team getting access to that Treasury Department payment system from yesterday.
unidentified		Mr. President, why is it important for Elon Musk to have access to the payment systems at Treasury?
donald j trump ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's got access only to letting people go that he thinks are no good if we agree with him.
		And it's only if we agree with him.
		He's a very talented guy from the standpoint of management and costs.
		And we put him in charge of seeing what he can do with certain groups and certain numbers.
		The numbers, some of the numbers are horrible of what he's found.
		A hundred, think of it, a hundred million dollars on condoms to Hamas, condoms to Hamas, and many other things that are frankly even more ridiculous.
		And they're finding tremendous waste, really waste more than anything else, I think you could say.
		Probably fraud and abuse can be added to it.
		The more standard waste, fraud, and abuse.
		But they're finding tremendous amounts of really bad things, bad spending.
		You've been reading about, you've been writing about some of it, frankly, and some of the things that they've been doing is just terrible.
		Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval.
		And we'll give him the approval where appropriate.
		Where not appropriate, we won't.
		But he reports in and he it's it's something that he feels very strongly about and I'm impressed because he's running obviously a big company.
		It has nothing to do if there's a conflict that we won't let him get near it.
		But he does have a good natural instinct.
		He's got a team of very talented people.
		We're trying to shrink government and he can probably shrink it as well as anybody else if not better.
		Where we think there's a conflict or there's a problem, we won't let them go near it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Now, the White House has mentioned that USAID sent $50 million for condoms in Gaza.
		The Washington Post fact checker has looked into that claim, says there is no evidence for that claim.
		It says that that figure would rain 1.5 billion condoms on an area only double the size of the District of Columbia.
		It says last year the State Department launched a five-year $50 million program to improve health care in Gaza, but the contractor said it was not supplying condoms.
		You can read that at the Washington Post.
		Here's Connie and Tacoma, Washington, Democrat.
		Hi, Connie.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		The reason I'm calling is I'm kind of curious on what USAID, what that costs us versus what our military is costing us.
		Because I look at our efforts with USAID as soft power versus our military power as hard power.
		And I think it's important to provide goods and services to the world and supplies to these developing countries.
		I think it is in our best interest for national security for on down the line.
		And I'm wondering, all of these people that want to hamper our efforts in that way, I am a Christian, and I'm wondering, where are our values?
		I look at this as we are a wealthy nation.
		I pay taxes.
		I work full-time.
		I am more than happy to help less fortunate people around the world.
		That is what my values, my Christian values dictate.
		I think, what would Jesus do?
		That's exactly what he would have me do.
		So I don't understand where we are hurting ourselves, that we're hurting ourselves in our long-term security interest and our own personal values.
		I look at this administration as trying to gut Uncle Sam, and it breaks my heart.
		He sows hate, fear, and division.
		That's all I see.
		And I wish he could see the positive power that he has in the world and use that effectively.
		That's really all I have to say.
		But if you give me the numbers on the military versus USAID, that would be great.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Yep, USAAI is $40 billion for fiscal year 2023.
		Department of Defense, I don't have it offhand, but it is in the, I want to say the 800 to 900 billion range.
		But we need to, don't quote me on that.
		We'll find that for you.
		And this is Chris in Elgin, Illinois, who sent us a text.
		Musk is a billionaire private citizen with his own agenda and with a blatant conflict of interest, considering the multi-billion dollar relationship between SpaceX and the U.S. government.
		He was not vetted.
		He was not elected.
		And the only qualification he has for this invented post is his slavering loyalty to Trump.
		Everyone in the USA should be outraged at this.
		And this from John in Ventura, California.
		USAID is like a dead tree with roots that must be pulled.
		Reminder to all, the national debt is $35 trillion and unsustainable.
		And that is the time that we've got for this segment.
		More to come.
		Next, we'll discuss President Trump's approach to legal and illegal immigration with Center for Immigration Studies Mark Krokorian.
		Later, Bloomberg reporter Greg Corty on the Elon Musk-led Department of Government Efficiency and its influence at USAID and the Treasury Department.
		We'll be right back.
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mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We are joined now by Mark Grocorian.
		He's Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
		Mark, welcome.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So just start by telling us about the Center for Immigration Studies and what position you take on legal and illegal immigration.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		The center is a think tank.
		We've been around 40 years.
		This is our 40th anniversary.
		And our mission is to critique current immigration policy and make the case for tighter enforcement and lower levels of legal immigration.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So even legal immigration, you would like to see that reduced.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Why is that?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Large-scale immigration is incompatible with the goals and the characteristics of a modern society.
		In other words, conditions have changed from 100 and 200 years ago.
		We're a post-industrial knowledge-based economy.
		We have a welfare state.
		Advances in transportation and communication have shrunk the world.
		All of those things mean the situation we're in is fundamentally different from anything we faced before.
		And large-scale immigration is just creates problems and is inconsistent with the kind of society we have now in a way that wasn't necessarily true 100 or 200 years ago, even though immigration even then was a challenge, but it was easier to deal with back then than it is today.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what data do you point to to come to that conclusion that we're at a point now in our country's history where we just don't need as much legal immigration?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		We're a continent-spanning country with a third of a billion people.
		We don't actually need any immigration.
		The issue is, are there particular groups of people whose admission is so compelling that we let them in anyway?
		And that would be husbands, wives, and little kids of American citizens, which is actually more than you think.
		That's 300,000, 400,000 people a year.
		A handful of real geniuses, Einsteins, and a handful of humanitarian immigrants who literally have nowhere else to go and no other options.
		You add that up, it's something like half or less than the current level of 1.1 million immigrants that we take today.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And when you look at the economy, are there certain jobs, for instance, in agriculture, for instance, in health, home health care, that are predominantly staffed by legal immigrants?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If that were to go away, would that impact the economy and the services that Americans expect?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		First thing to keep in mind is that any changes in immigration policy, whether it's enforcement or whether it's legal immigration policy, will result in a process of change, not an overnight event.
		In other words, you don't wake up overnight and then all the immigrant workers are gone.
		The issue is how do we sort of adjust to a different situation?
		And in a market economy, there's no such thing as jobs that Americans won't do.
		There are jobs that Americans won't do at particular wages, in particular ways, with particular benefits.
		And the fact is, almost all categories of jobs that people think of as immigrant-dominated, in fact, native-born Americans do most of them, whether it's janitorial work, whether it's construction work, all of those kind of things.
		There's only a handful of relatively narrow slices of the job market that are immigrant dominated.
		Picking fresh fruits and vegetables is one of them.
		But there aren't that many people who do that.
		And there are technological solutions to that, to mechanize that work.
		So there's still people involved, but fewer people.
		And the incentive to move to that kind of higher productivity economy are undermined when we take in lots of people from overseas.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to join our conversation with Mark Krikorian about immigration, you can do so.
		Our lines are bipartisan.
		So Republicans 202748-8001.
		Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202748-8002.
		Let's talk about President Trump's immigration raids.
		What has been your reaction for these first two weeks?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		We really needed this kind of restart of immigration enforcement because immigration enforcement was, for all intents and purposes, stopped under the Biden administration, especially inside the country.
		And so what Tom Homan, border czar Tom Holman, has done and he said is we're going to go after the worst first.
		They're going after criminals, but they're also going after people who have had final orders of removal, it's called.
		In other words, they've been ordered, deported, and they just ignored it.
		They're fugitives.
		There's close to a million and a half people like that.
		So the idea that we're now restarting immigration enforcement, that if you just ignored an order to leave the country, you don't just get away with that anymore.
		And it's essential to end that kind of impunity.
		So I mean, I applaud what they've been doing so far.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You said a million and a half.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Close to it.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		I think it's 1.4 million is the last number I saw.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do we have an idea of how long those immigration raids would last for those 1.5 million people?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, you can't, I couldn't come up with a number.
		I have no idea.
		And part of the reason, part of the strategy, of course, is not just to arrest everyone they need to arrest, but also incentivize people to go home on their own.
		In other words, that they're not going to be able to get away with this anymore.
		The party's over and it's time to pack up and, frankly, leave on your own terms in a more kind of dignified way so that you pack up the car, pack up the family, and leave ahead of ICE coming to get you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And do we know if that's happening?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		It's definitely happening.
		We don't know the magnitude of it, because it always happens to some degree.
		Heck, even under the Biden administration, there were illegal immigrants who left.
		There's always churn.
		The goal is to have fewer people come in illegally and more of the people who are here illegally leave, either on their own or, you know, under in custody.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this new center that's being built in Guantanamo Bay, can you explain what that is and who would be there and who would be detained there?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		This is actually just restarting something that we've done a number of times under the Clinton administration, other administrations, where we would detain illegal immigrants of one sort or another at Guantanamo.
		I mean, it's a big place.
		It's not like they're going to be with the terrorists.
		This is its own facility.
		And the way the Trump administration has talked about it is that's where they're going to put the criminals that their own countries aren't taking yet.
		In other words, it'll be sort of a holding facility while the administration applies pressure to what is called recalcitrant countries, countries that are not honoring their international obligations to take their own people back.
		And there's a lot of countries like that.
		Venezuela was one of them, but the president seems to have, you know, persuaded them, either with carrot or stick or both, to comply with their international obligations.
		There are still other countries that aren't doing that.
		And so as I understand it, that's one of the main reasons they're setting up this Guantanamo facility so they can get people out of the United States until they can get the paperwork and the travel documents and et cetera to send them home to their own country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And is there information about how many people they'll be able to hold ultimately or for how long?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the capacity they've reported is up to 30,000.
		And frankly, in earlier crises back 30 years ago now, there was a Cuban-Haitian rafter boat people crisis.
		They held more than 20,000 people there at one point or another.
		So, you know, it would be a moving target, but as I understand it, there would be maximum capacity of 30,000.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And there was, of course, President Trump was threatening tariffs against Mexico.
		That's been halted for 30 days.
		What do you think of that as a method of decreasing illegal immigration flowing over that southern border?
		And can that be, is there more that you think should be done?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Mexico is what you would call a gatekeeper country for us.
		In other words, it's the country that illegal immigrants pass through to get to our country, like Turkey is for Europe, for instance.
		And they play an essential role in limiting illegal immigration into the United States.
		Mexico never used to care too much about it because they were mainly Mexicans and they're not going to start their own people, stop their own people from traveling.
		But most illegal immigrants are not Mexican anymore.
		And so Mexico actually has an interest in working with us to stop third country illegal aliens coming through their own country.
		And in fact, even politically in Mexico with regular voters, they've kind of, they're sick of foreigners using their country as a doormat.
		And so I think there really is a confluence of interest here in both stopping illegal immigration, but also drugs, which is the other top thing, even though that's not my area.
		That's the other thing that the president has stressed.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk to callers.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this is Rob, a Republican in Deedham, Massachusetts.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		How are you doing?
		Mr. Kikorian, very familiar with your organization.
		Both Jessica and Todd Bensman have swung to Boston for Bostonians against sanctuary cities, and Lou Murray says hi to you.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Anyways, we're in the middle of ground zero here with Michelle Lou and Governor Healy.
		And we have all these convoluted laws that have been basically bastardized to support all these people.
		And we're all full here.
		And the problem is, I think personally, that the reason why they want all these illegals here is to basically fill roles again for all the other Massachusetts people who left.
		They need a new congressman, sir, besides all the collateral damage that these people judge.
		What do you think?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think there's actually that kind of strategy behind either sanctuary cities or, you know, at the national level when the Biden administration was allowing massive illegal immigration.
		I think their perspective is that immigration controls are immoral, that stopping anyone who wants to come here is simply not allowed.
		It's not acceptable morally.
		It's racist, it's oppressive, et cetera.
		And so everything kind of follows from that.
		I'm not really sure.
		I really don't think there's sort of a thought-out strategy about why they're doing this.
		It's just a kind of natural reaction to their rejection of the very idea of immigration limits.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		President Trump made changes to the CPB1 app, which was a way for asylum seekers to ask for a hearing in front of a judge.
		That's gone away.
		There are reports that even those appointments have been canceled.
		Can you tell us what's happening with that and what your view is on asylum seekers in the United States and what should happen to them?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		The CBP1 app was developed actually during the first Trump administration, but it was just a traffic management thing for like bus lines and truck lines to smooth out the traffic at the border.
		The Biden administration turned it into a tool for illegal immigrants or potential illegal immigrants to schedule their illegal immigration is kind of what it amounted to because these are people who are inadmissible.
		They have no right to enter the United States.
		And so the Biden administration...
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Including asylum seekers?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Yep, they have no...
		Asylum seekers...
		Asylum, a request for asylum is a defense against deportation.
		You're an illegal alien and then you say, I want asylum, please don't deport me.
		So nobody from overseas or across the border has a right to enter the United States illegally just to make an asylum claim.
		But the Biden administration was using this tool, CBP1, as a way for people who have no right to come here to come in and then ostensibly to make an asylum claim.
		So it was, frankly, the administration, the Biden administration, was violating the law.
		The people coming in with the CBP1 app were actually not breaking the law.
		They weren't jumping the border illegally.
		It was the administration that was breaking the law for them by letting them in.
		It had to be ended.
		And frankly, this is a whole other show, but asylum is a surrender of sovereignty.
		The illegal immigrant says, you have to let me in.
		You have to let me stay.
		That's not sustainable, and we need a bottom-up reassessment of what our asylum policy is.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that those who are already in the country who are seeking asylum should have their case heard in front of a judge and determine whether or not they should be allowed to stay based on that asylum claim?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're in the pipeline.
		Yeah, we end up having to inevitably give them their day in court.
		The problem is the law requires that everyone making that kind of asylum claim has to be held in detention until a decision is made.
		The previous administration just let them go.
		The problem is, if they don't show up to court or if they get a negative finding, as most, almost all of them will, then what do you do with them?
		That's why they're supposed to be detained.
		The Biden administration just let them go, and it's going to be hard to find all of those people.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So would it be your organization's policy to continue that, but to detain them as they're waiting for, because sometimes, given that there's not enough judges, it's six years, ten years where they're waiting for that hearing.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		The law requires that they be detained.
		Now, a lot of the people who came in with this app haven't even undergone the initial screening interview.
		It's called a credible fear interview.
		And the point is to screen out the people who really have obviously, you know, meritless cases.
		That has to be done.
		And yes, they need to be taken into custody so that when they get a negative finding, they can be removed rather than just disappear into the country.
unidentified		All right.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Jay in Washington, D.C. Democrat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Jay.
unidentified		Hi, thank you for C-SPAN.
		I have a few things to say.
		First, you gave the numbers about USAD, but AID, but the country needs to understand the matter of scale.
		USAID only makes up 0.4% of the federal budget.
		And what Elon Musk has access to now is the entire Department of Treasury, including everyone's tax returns.
		Concerning Guantanamo, a $30,000 increase to house actual prisoners in Guantanamo would equate to the largest private prison project in the history of this country.
		The largest prison in this country can only support 8,000 people.
		I'd be curious to hear what the guest has to say about Marco Rubio's recent trip to El Salvador in terms of taking not only illegal or undocumented immigrants from their country, but also from other countries, and to take the possibility of criminals from the United States.
		So that is American citizens being deported to another country for their prison term.
		I would also like to say if anyone feels that this is too much and they feel that this is an overreach by bureaucrats, which Elon Musk is, there are protests around the country today, including today at 5 o'clock at 1500 Pennsylvania Avenue at the Department of Treasury.
		Thank you very much.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		The Salvador thing is the only thing I'm, I think, qualified to talk about.
		And the idea of sending aliens who are prisoners to a different country to be imprisoned is fine.
		The idea that American prisoners would be sent there, as I understand it, is something that President Bukele of El Salvador just brought up.
		I have no idea whether that's actually part of it or not.
		But obviously, not only Salvadoran prisoners to be returned to Salvador, as I understand it, to finish out their sentences, but also criminal aliens from other countries sent there to finish out their sentences.
		If their own countries wouldn't take them back, that's actually a great idea, and I'm delighted to see it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, here is John in Arlington, Virginia, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		Hi.
		The 14th Amendment, according to Trump, was only for the descendants of American slaves.
		Will that is that does your guest concur with that?
		And is that the overriding factor?
		I mean, how does immigration, and also how does this really help black unemployment?
		I mean, it's a good thing for black people that I'm talking about indigenous black people, American citizens, that these immigrants are being deported and that maybe black men could really get jobs in the construction area.
		So those are the two things that I'm concerned about.
		The 14th Amendment and how will this affect black unemployment?
		I'll listen to your response.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		The 14th Amendment issue is this birthright citizenship issue.
		And it says that everybody born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States is a citizen.
		The whole point of it, it was a post-Civil War amendment, was to make sure that the southern states, once the army withdrew, didn't strip citizenship of the newly freed slaves.
		It was essential.
		It was an important post-Civil War amendment.
		It had nothing to do with illegal immigration.
		Nothing to do with tourists coming here to have children, because that's a widespread phenomenon.
		Nothing to do with foreign students or foreign workers having kids and getting citizenship.
		So yes, that was obviously and specifically intended to ensure that black Americans weren't stripped of their citizenship.
		The other question was, what is the effect of immigration on black workers?
		And it's been quite serious over the years, over a long time.
		In fact, in 1986, Congress, for the first time ever, prohibited the employment of illegal immigrants.
		In 1990, Senator Ted Kennedy and the National Council of La Raza tried to undo that and make it legal again to hire illegal aliens.
		But they failed because Coretta Scott King, Martin Luther King's widow, got an open letter with other black leaders and said, under no circumstances should that law be changed because it's important that we preserve opportunities for black Americans.
		And that's clearly something this administration is also concerned with.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		On the Republican line, Charlotte in Walden, New York.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		My concern is with these studies that your industry is doing, with all the immigrants that came into this country, didn't you send any red alarms to the president or to anybody about this inhumane situation that would happen to all these people, where they go, who did it impact?
		And secondly, that now we have a situation where all these people have to, especially the criminals, have to be gathered up and be taken away to, you know, to be out of our arm's way.
justice neil gorsuch ▲ ● ▼		But do you pose any, I guess, I want to say, contributing factors to this with your not being on top of this situation for the Bidens to just have this flow come, and now we're paying the terrible impact of it.
unidentified		I'll wait for your response.
unidentified		Thank you.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, there's just no question that when you have years of bad policy, it's difficult to undo.
		And in immigration, it's even more so because if you have, say, tax policy that you don't like, whether it's too high or too low, in your opinion, whatever it is, you can always change that.
		And it will have effects, but it's easier to kind of turn around.
		Immigration is about people.
		And if you have an administration like the Biden administration that led in, consciously, took into custody and then just led into the United States millions of illegal immigrants, that's harder to undo because people don't just disappear with the snap of a finger.
		So yes, absolutely, bad policy has long consequences that have to be dealt with.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Renee in Raleigh, North Carolina.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		So I wanted to go back to the term undocumented immigrants.
		And the question I have or the statement I have is that when we look at people coming here for asylum or for immigration, they have the right and it's in the laws that they can come to the land, come on land, and then ask for asylum.
		There are also people who seek asylum prior to coming to the U.S. There's a whole application process.
		And so the app that you were referring to that was shut down actually supported those before, those people who were seeking asylum before they actually land on U.S. soil, as well as those ones who show up first and then ask for asylum.
		And so what do you suggest as a support for those who have done the proper documentation to seek asylum prior to coming?
		Now they don't even have an app to track their progress or the other different administrative sweeping judgments or taking away a lot of their options.
		That stalls that whole process when they actually have true and in fact reasons for seeking asylum and they've done it the proper way.
		That affects everything.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Just to be clear, no one has the right to enter the United States without prior permission.
		No one.
		Just because you're going to make an asylum claim, that doesn't give you the right to enter the United States.
		An asylum claim is a defense that an illegal alien makes who has already broken the law about why he shouldn't be returned.
		And the fact is that there are no numerical limits on asylum.
		And easily, two, three, four billion people around the world could, under some interpretation of the law, qualify for asylum.
		This is why asylum was created after World War II and after the Red Army takeover of Eastern Europe.
		And it was supposed to be a narrow thing, a narrow exception for, and I'm only exaggerating a little here, a handful of Russian ballerinas.
		That was it.
		It has become a vehicle for mass illegal immigration, not just here, but in Europe, in Australia, in Israel.
		And it needs to be fundamentally rethought.
		You have no right to come here just because you say you're going to claim for asylum.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I want to play you a clip of a recent interview with New York City Democratic Representative Andreano Espayat.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		He talks about concerns about immigration raids in his cities, and then I'll have you respond.
unidentified		Well, first and foremost, everybody should be afforded due process in our nation.
		I don't think we should compromise due process for anybody.
		But if you committed a violent crime, you're going through due process.
adriano espaillat ▲ ● ▼		If you're found guilty, there are already laws in the book that allow for you to be arrested, convicted, and deported.
		We are concerned about the broader picture, a casting out of a broader net where folks that jumped a turnstile that were involved in a minor offense, a nonviolent offense, could be scooped up and deported as well.
		These folks may be fathers, mothers, they have families, and we're concerned that this is going to hurt New York City and the country.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Deportation is not a criminal punishment.
		It is simply an administrative action to return you to your own country because you don't have a right to stay here.
		So everyone whose presence in the United States is not authorized by the government of the United States is deportable at all times.
		So due process, if you're a criminal, even if you're an illegal immigrant, you get the same due process rights as anyone else because that's a criminal process.
		You get a Miranda rights.
		You can have a government-funded attorney, the whole thing.
		Deportation is a different thing.
		And due process in deportation matters, as the Supreme Court has said, is whatever Congress says it is because it's an administrative process and we've set out certain rules.
		If you're illegally here, even if you're not committing a crime, the clip referred to people, say, who jumped a turnstile and somehow came to the attention of police and they shouldn't be deported is what he's saying.
		Well, if they're illegal immigrants and they came to the attention of police, of course they should be deported.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		This is Tom in Spring Hill, Florida, Republican.
unidentified		Good morning, sir.
		I got three questions.
		One, these illegal migrants or undocumented workers, even if they're documented, would you feel AI is sufficient enough and the technology of AI that's constantly growing will replace them so that these workers that come in will be obsolete?
		My second question is: housing these people, these illegals, criminals, will it be cheaper, cost-effective if they're housing Guantanamo instead of these liberal federal facilities or state facilities or county facilities?
		And my last question was: I'm trying to think what was this question I was going to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That's okay, Tom.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We can take the first two.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, those two are plenty.
		As far as AI and not even just AI, but just generally technological advancement replacing a lot of low-skilled jobs, this has been happening, obviously, for hundreds of years, and AI may well accelerate that process.
		And this is why the idea of bringing in less skilled workers at a time when technology is eliminating the need for as many less skilled workers is kind of crazy.
		And we have an enormous untapped workforce in the United States.
		The share of working-age men who are not working is higher than it's ever been.
		And this is a problem we need to deal with.
		Bringing in foreign workers, they're perfectly normal people.
		It's not that they're somehow bad, it's that it removes any incentive for us to grapple with this basic issue.
		And as far as the cost of deportation or detention, the whole point should be to reduce the cost by getting these people home.
		So whether it costs less or more in Guantanamo or in some ICE detention facility or a county jail, it's an important management question, but the main thing is to get them out so it doesn't cost us anything.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Before we let you go, I want to ask you about the H-1B visa program.
		That is for highly skilled foreign tech workers.
		Where do you stand on that?
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		It's actually not all that highly skilled.
		There are a handful of genuine top talents who come through that program, but it's mainly a vehicle for tech companies to import cheap labor.
		Now, people say, well, they're not cheap.
		They're getting paid, you know, $80,000 a year.
		Yeah, but given their jobs and where they are, it's cheap labor.
		That's all it is.
		And the craziest thing about it is that we give out those visas by lottery so that anybody who applies, you've got a big pool of people, most of whom are kind of middling at best, and yet we pick them by lottery rather than the reform that I think we're going to see in this administration.
		They tried it last time and failed.
		Give it to people based on the highest salary offered so that the businesses who value the workers the most are the ones who are likely to get the people.
		And that's, you know, not a perfect solution, but it's a real solution that will improve the program.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Mark Gregorian, Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
		They're online at cis.org.
		Thanks so much for joining us.
mark krikorian ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Up next, the Elon Musk-led Department of Government Efficiency is making news all over Washington.
		We'll talk to Bloomberg's Gregory Cortee with the latest.
		And later, you'll meet Democratic freshman class president Julie Johnson and learn about her priorities in Congress plus concerns over actions of the Trump administration.
		We'll be right back.
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mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We're joined now by White House and Politics Reporter for Bloomberg News, Gregory Corty.
		Welcome to the program.
unidentified		Good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So let's start with Elon Musk.
		He has spoken more broadly about his efforts and plans for Doge beyond what just happened at USAID.
		What have you learned about his plans?
unidentified		Well, he's really sort of systematically going through the federal government agency by agency and trying to get access to data about how they're spending their money and looking for examples of what he sees are a great egregious waste of taxpayer money and trying to turn off the spigot.
		Now, President Trump yesterday was asked by reporters in the Oval Office what kind of access Elon Musk has.
		The president said, look, he can see everything, but the decision on whether to halt a particular payment is still up to the president and to the appropriate government officials.
		But it's really a wide-ranging, broad mandate to look throughout the federal government for waste, fraud, and abuse.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's look at a portion of that executive order that created Doge.
		So it says this.
		This is part of what it says.
		It says, establishes the Department of Government Efficiency to implement the President's Doge agenda by modernizing federal technology and software to maximize government efficiency and productivity.
		This seems more like a technological change, not a we're shutting down a department, we're cutting off email to all employees, you are not allowed in the building, the website has gone down.
		What do you make of that?
unidentified		Yeah, it's a very rapidly evolving mission.
		So let's go back to last August when Trump first floated this idea.
		This is something that Musk had talked about, a Department of Government Efficiency.
		It's not really a department because only Congress can create departments, but the idea was to rein in regulations, the spending, and make government more efficient.
		When we got this executive order that President Trump signed on Inauguration Day, it did have what appeared to be a more narrow mandate.
		So leveraging technology to modernize government operations, to implement the president's Doge agenda.
		It never really defined what Doge agenda is, but a separate executive order also put Musk in charge of hiring and coming up with a federal hiring plan to ensure that, as the words of the executive order was that government employees had American values and interests.
		So it's really a broad mandate and Musk doesn't appear to be limited by the four corners of that executive order.
		Executive orders are binding on the executive branch of the government, but they're really the presidents to enforce.
		And so if the president is giving Musk more leeway to go beyond the charter of Doge, as long as he has the president's support, he can do that.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So there's something more in the executive order that I wanted to bring up.
		It says agency heads shall take all necessary steps in coordination with the USDS, which is the United States Doge Service Administrator, and to the maximum is sent consistent with law to ensure USDS has full and prompt access to all unclassified agency records, software systems, and IT systems.
		First, what is the USDS?
		Now it's the United States Doge Service.
unidentified		Yeah, it used to be known as the United States Digital Service.
		And this was an office that was created in the aftermath of that healthcare.gov debacle of, what was a decade ago, a little bit more maybe, where people went to sign on to get health care plans under Obamacare.
		The website crashed.
		And so this was an office within the Office of Management and Budget that was going to kind of help with these kinds of systems to get things, to use technology to modernize federal systems.
		Now the president has rebranded the U.S. Digital Service as U.S. Doge Service.
		That appears to be sort of the working staffing part of this Doge.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That's what I wanted to ask you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Is it rebranding or are all those employees now working for Doge?
unidentified		It's unclear, but it may well be that they are different employees than the ones that work for the U.S. Digital Service.
		Musk has brought in people from the outside.
		There's also a related organization.
		The other part of that executive order is to create Doge itself, which is a temporary organization.
		And that's a particular term of art in the law that until now has only been used in the national security arena to create high-level study groups.
		We've had them to study the military draft and military aviation safety.
		This is the first time it's been used outside national security.
		But what it does is it allows the president to circumvent the civil service laws, competitive examinations, those kinds of things, and hiring up really quick, allowing him to accept volunteer help.
		Usually there's a ban on having volunteers work in the federal government.
		And it makes Musk what is known as a special government employee.
		So we don't know if Musk is taking a salary.
		It's probably irrelevant to him because he's the world's richest man.
		But it makes him subject to all the conflicts of interest law that a regular employee would be subject to, but with a couple of different exceptions.
		One is that he has to file a financial disclosure, but that is not public.
		And he also does not have to divest his considerable wealth in order to join the federal government.
		So it appears that Musk himself is Doge, and then the U.S. Doge Service is the staff that helps him to implement this agenda.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Because we've been hearing about like Musk allies, Doge teams.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do we know who these people are, how many they are, what kind of salary they might be taking, what kind of conflict of interest they might have?
unidentified		Yes.
		So the third component of this, beyond USDS and Doge itself, are these Doge teams.
		And those are at least four officials at each federal department and agency that are the teams that go out to the agency and help to implement this agenda are the liaisons back to Elon Musk at Doge.
		We know some of the names of these people.
		They tend to come, a lot of them, from Tesla, SpaceX.
		These are companies that Musk owns.
		So they are people that are loyal to him.
		And there's a little bit of a culture shock going on right now because they don't necessarily understand how government works.
		They understand how technology works, certainly.
		But you have a culture shock on both ends because you also have these agencies with people coming in from Silicon Valley sort of imposing different ways of doing things on them in a very short period of time.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to join our conversation with Gregory Corty, he's White House and Politics Reporter at Bloomberg News.
		You can call in now.
		The lines are Republicans 202748-8001, Democrats 202-748-8000.
		And Independents 202748-8002.
		Explain to us what happened over the weekend with the Doge team at the U.S. Treasury Department.
unidentified		So Elon Musk has been trying to get access to the Treasury payment systems.
		There's a very old and complicated system of databases and computer networks at Treasury that ensure that the government can process tens of billions worth of transactions a day.
		These are everything from Social Security benefit checks to tax returns to contractor payments, employee payroll, that all of the agencies in the federal government will send to the Treasury Department for processing.
		It's up to the agencies to determine whether it's a legal payment and that the appropriations are there from Congress to actually pay it.
		But if you wanted visibility into every single cent that was coming in and going out of the federal government, you would want to do that at Treasury.
		That's where everything happens.
		And so the senior career official who was in charge of those systems, a guy by the name of David Lebrick, resigned suddenly last week.
		He had been the acting Treasury Secretary for a short period of time after Trump was inaugurated and before Scott Besent came and took the reins.
		But he is a career Treasury Department official who understood how all these systems work.
		He resigned suddenly and we now understand.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Why did he resign?
unidentified		He did not give a reason in his resignation letter, but the timing obviously coincided with Musk's takeover or at least access to these federal payment systems.
		Now, the president said yesterday that Musk has visibility into all this, but isn't able to actually modify any of this payment data.
		There are members of Congress and others who say they have reason to doubt that's true.
		They think that Musk has his finger on the button.
		And Musk hasn't disabused anybody of that notion.
		He was on Twitter all weekend talking about payments that he was stopping.
		He has talked about delete, delete, delete.
		He wants to go through these federal payments and stop them because he believes they're illegal.
		The president says he has the final authority on that, but Musk is acting as if he's the one in charge.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		And wanted to ask you also about what that would kind of indicate as far as privacy.
		So there's a lot of information in that system as far as people's Social Security numbers and all kinds of things like that.
		Could that, I mean, are we sure that that's still secure or is that now in the hands of the Musk team?
unidentified		There's certainly a lot of concern about that, both from members of Congress, from federal employees, and from others.
		There's been a lawsuit, at least one lawsuit, over Musk's access to this.
		And you're right.
		These systems, in order to process the payments, need people's Social Security numbers, taxpayer ID numbers, both of taxpayers and of federal employees.
		There may be sensitive information to contractors in when and how they get paid.
		Beneficiaries of Medicare and Social Security programs all have their data at the Treasury Department.
		The executive order that Trump signed did say that Doge would have to put in place information security protocols to make sure that that information isn't privatized.
		But there's still some concern about the world's richest man and his team of brand new federal employees having kind of overnight access to some of the most sensitive, unclassified information the government has.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we're going to just, I'm going to play you a clip of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer introducing legislation to prevent Elon Musk from meddling with that Treasury Department payment system that we're talking about.
chuck schumer ▲ ● ▼		The Treasury Secretary must revoke Doge's access to the Treasury payment system at once.
		If not, Congress must act immediately.
		That is why Leader Jeffries and I are working together on legislation which we will introduce to stop unlawful meddling in the Treasury Department's payment systems.
		We must protect people's Social Security payments, their Medicare payments, tax refunds from any possible tampering by Doge or any other unauthorized entities.
		Let's be very clear.
		Doge is not a real government agency.
		It has no authority to make spending decisions.
		It has no authority to shut programs down or ignore federal law.
		To give Doge a chokehold on Treasury payments is outlandishly dangerous.
		It's like putting a tiger into a petting zoo and then hoping for the best.
		It's impossible to overstate that this is playing with fire.
		The Bureau of the Fiscal Service, which oversees these Treasury Department payments, executes over $1 billion billion transactions a year worth $6 trillion.
		If these payments were ever intentionally or even accidentally halted or manipulated, it could paralyze our economy if we're not careful.
		One mistake, and people's Social Security benefits could freeze.
		Disability payments, aid to veterans, loans to small businesses, they could all be endangered.
		The Treasury Department is already using extraordinary measures to ensure we do not default on the debt.
		If Doge's careless meddling caused us to default, it could trigger a worldwide financial crisis.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Gregory, what do you think about the possibility of that legislation passing?
unidentified		Well, I mean, we all know what the math is in Congress right now.
		The Senate and the House are both controlled by Republicans, but by relatively narrow margins.
		So you would still need a small number of Republicans to join into any kind of effort to restrict or rein in Doge.
		And it's one of the President's top policy initiatives, right?
		So I can imagine that Republicans would close ranks around the President on something that the President feels is very important.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to callers, and we'll start with Annie in Texas, Independent Line.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I have a question.
		So they are going in there getting all this information on people who's doing Social Security and what else.
		We have no financial information on Elon Musk.
		We have no financial information on the president and his family.
		I don't think that's fair.
		And that's all I have to say.
		Yeah, well, President Trump has defied the tradition.
		It's not a law, it's not a requirement of presidents to divulge their tax return information.
		There has been some information that's leaked out over the years that he's been in public life.
		We do know a little bit about his assets.
		Those are required to be disclosed.
		And we also know a lot about Elon Musk's considerable holdings just because he owns or he's the CEO of one publicly owned company.
		And the names of his companies are sort of household words in America today.
		SpaceX, X, formerly known as Twitter, XAI, maybe less known, the Boring Company.
		He's the richest man in the world.
		But the point that Colin makes, I think, is a legitimate one in that he wields considerable influence over the executive branch, and he has many conflicts of interest because his companies are contractors with the federal government.
		$20 billion worth of contracts with SpaceX, with the Department of Defense, and NASA.
		And also, his companies are regulated by federal agencies.
		Tesla is regulated by the National Highway Safety Transportation Administration.
		The FAA helps to regulate SpaceX.
		So there's a whole lot of interests that Elon Musk has that are implicated by this powerful position that he now holds.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Ed in Danbury, Connecticut, Republican.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'm somewhat interested in the Treasury oversight of grants to states.
		I think recently in one program that was granted to the states, $180 billion was stolen by organized crime.
		And yet I think this year we're going to grant another trillion dollars to the states.
		It seems to me that there is significant room for improvement in oversight.
		And I think those might be helpful in that respect.
		Yeah, I'm not sure about, I just don't know the details of that specific criminal case that you mentioned, but there's a lot of different grant programs to states.
		Some are formula grants where Congress says that the amount of money the states get is dependent on their population or the number of highway miles in the state.
		There are others that are more competitive grants where states have to come up with programs that meet the criteria and apply, and then some federal agency decides which states get the money.
		Those are all, there is some oversight.
		There's varying oversight depending on the nature of the program.
		Some are less restricted.
		Some are on a reimbursement basis.
		There are federal auditors who look at how that money is spent.
		But the nature of audits is that sometimes they can be spotty, that you can't audit everything.
		You have to kind of pick the highest risk programs and prioritize those.
		And it's actually been a priority for Republicans for quite a while to spend less from the federal government and use more block grants to states.
		Let states decide how to implement programs in a way that makes the most sense for their states.
		So while there is this government efficiency push, this idea to limit the size of the federal government, there are also some who believe that the government should be spending more on block grants to states and not less.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What's the status, Gregory, of those federal grants?
		So given the OMB put out a memo and then rescinded it, the courts put a hold on it.
		So are those grants flowing now or are they frozen?
unidentified		It's unclear and it probably depends on the nature of the grant program.
		So what the Trump White House has said is that they are revoking that OMB memo that put a temporary freeze on all grants.
		But the president's also signed a number of executive orders that limit grants and prohibit grant money from being used for what he calls gender ideology programs, DEI programs, other programs that he thinks are against the policies that he would like to promote as president.
		And so anything that smacks of those kind of Biden era policies, I would put reproductive health or abortion programs in that bucket as well.
		Those continue to remain frozen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll talk to Linda in Missouri, line for Democrats.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You're on with Gregory Corty.
unidentified		Good morning and good morning, Gregory.
		I'm just calling because I am totally opposed to Elon Musk running, making a muck of our United States of America.
		I am 70 years old, and I have never seen anything just so crazy in all my life that you can go into a system and you can just pull all of our information, all the data.
		You haven't been elected for anything.
		You are not even a citizen, but yet this is what you are able to do.
		You can go in and fire people because they did their job and found Trump guilty of things that he actually did commit because they were assigned these cases.
		They didn't have to be fired.
		This whole thing is just super duper crazy.
		I have never seen anything like this in my life.
		And I will support anything that's going to improve our systems.
		But this just sounds crazy.
		And then act like this man just quit his job all of a sudden.
		He quit his job because he was forced out of his job.
		If there were issues with things, then you need to try to correct them.
		You don't need to go in and do that.
		You haven't even had time to investigate to see what needs to be improved and how to improve it before you start letting all these people go.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Comment?
unidentified		I'd correct the colour on one thing: my understanding is that Elon Musk is an American citizen.
		He's a naturalized citizen.
		He was born in South Africa, but he does have all the rights of citizenship.
		But there is a legitimate point, I think, from this caller that Musk's power and influence in the government seem to go beyond what you would expect from a member of a president's kitchen cabinet.
		Presidents always get advice from people in industry, outside of government.
		Sometimes they even bring them into government.
		The temporary organization statute that Trump used to create Doge envisions a study project, something that looks at and studies a problem as opposed to what Musk appears to be doing, which is actually actively rolling up his sleeves, going into the agencies and, in some cases, locking the doors, shutting people out of their email accounts, and making policy.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		On the Republican line in West Virginia, Diane, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes, I have a kind of a statement and then a question.
		Okay, we're 37 trillion in debt.
		Our deficit is $2 trillion every year, which means we're spending $2 trillion more every year than we're bringing in.
		Now, where is that money?
		Where's that money?
		Where's that 37 trillion?
		I didn't get any of it.
		None of it's benefiting me.
		Doesn't seem to be.
		It's definitely not $37 trillion, wise.
		So maybe it's a good idea to go through every single pocket in Washington, D.C., and find out who's got the money, where did the money go?
		And if you said going into a pocket that's against America, couldn't we freeze that?
		I mean, instead, we've picked out an enemy, Elon Musk, because he doesn't need the money.
		It's the bureaucrats in D.C. that are putting the money in their pockets and giving it to their friends and having it be washed overseas and then brought back to them.
		Not Elon Musk.
		Could we quit making enemies, please, of the people trying to help?
		And would Democrats please just sit down?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Diane.
unidentified		She said she had a comment and a question.
		I'm not sure I ever heard the question.
		So I don't know if there's anything for me to answer.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I want to add this.
		This is a text.
		What will the Trump administration do with the extra money?
		For example, do they want to pay down the $35 trillion debt or will it go to fund their tax cuts?
unidentified		Well, I mean, that is an interesting question.
		The money that we're talking about right now is appropriated by Congress.
		Congress, as we all know, has the power of the purse.
		Congress has said there's a certain amount of money that we spend on, for example, foreign aid programs.
		Just because the Trump administration isn't spending it right now doesn't mean that that money doesn't exist.
		And presumably, that money will be reprogrammed or reallocated towards programs that the president does agree with.
		Now, there is this looming battle over impoundment, which is the theory that the president has the ability to not spend money that's appropriated by Congress.
		It's a controversial constitutional argument that's been made.
		Congress back in the 1970s passed the Anti-Impoundment Act to prohibit the president from withholding money that's duly appropriated by Congress.
		Trump said during the campaign he's going to challenge that statute and reassert the presidential control over spending.
		That's where I think this may rear its head.
		But yeah, in the meantime, if the president can find efficiency, certainly Congress would love to have that in its pocket to balance the budget, to cut taxes, whatever their priorities are.
		But it is ultimately Congress's decision.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's Gregory Corte, White House and Politics Reporter at Bloomberg News.
		You can find his writing at bloomberg.com.
		Thanks so much for joining us.
		Thank you.
		Coming up next in a half an hour, actually, you'll meet Democratic Freshman Class President Julie Johnson as she discusses how she sees her role with a Republican-controlled Congress and White House.
		But first, it's open forum.
		You can start calling in now: Republicans 202748-8001, Democrats 202-748-8000, and Independents 202-748-8002.
		We'll take your calls right after the break.
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		On Thursday, Trump U.S. Trade Representative nominee Jamison Greer will be on Capitol Hill for his confirmation hearing.
		Mr. Greer has worked in international trade law and previously served as chief of staff to the U.S. Trade Representative during the first Trump administration.
		From the Senate Finance Committee, watch live at 10 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN 3, C-SPAN Now, our free mobile app, or online at c-span.org.
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		These points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos.
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		Washington Journal continues.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back to Washington Journal.
		We're taking your calls in open forum.
		But before we do, a couple of programming notes for you.
		At 10 a.m., so right after this program here on C-SPAN, members of the Senate Finance Committee will vote on whether to recommend the nomination of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as Health and Human Services Secretary.
		If approved, his nomination would go to the Senate floor for a vote.
		That's live, 10 a.m.
		It's right after this program here on C-SPAN, also on C-SPANNow and C-SPAN.org.
		Then at 10.30 over on C-SPAN 3, the DEA and Congress have temporarily listed fentanyl as a Schedule 1 drug under the Control Substances Act.
		This listing expires in March.
		There's a hearing on the need for a permanent scheduling of fentanyl featuring advocates, physicians, law enforcement officials.
		The Senate Judiciary Committee will have that live, and we will cover it live at 10.30 a.m. Eastern on C-SPAN 3, also on C-SPANNow and c-SPAN.org.
		Also, just a quick update on the news about tariffs.
		The New York Times has this on its front page.
		Allies step back from the brink of a trade war.
		Trump delays tariffs.
		Mexico and Canada vow to stem the flow of drugs and migrants.
		That's on the front page of today's New York Times.
		And this is Jane in Olympia, Washington.
		Republican, good morning, Jane.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I would like to, I'm calling in about the USAID controversy.
		What most average citizens don't know is that it's been documented that it's a and the agency itself is rogue.
		The people there spend money like they they don't have any accountability to the executive branch.
		And that they've actually, the USAID money, which is supposed to be foreign, it's documented that they have spent money and funded domestic things such as funding the Soros prosecutors.
		It's documented on Twitter under the Mike Benz cyber account.
		There's some information there.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Say that again, the Mike Benz?
unidentified		Mike, M-I-K-E-Benz, B-E-N-Z, Cyber, C-Y-B-E-R.
		He was a former State Department official in the first Trump administration.
		And he's had lots and lots of videos and documents, things online with his subscribers documenting the flow of money from U.S. AIDS to different groups.
		So if people are interested, that's where they can find that documented information.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And here's Michael in Florida, Line for Democrats.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
		I called in because that guy, Gregory, had a comment that I wanted about Elon Musk.
		But I don't know if people realize what's going on.
		They don't remember, but they need to be reminded what happened in Germany when Hitler took over.
		Safety things happening here.
		They're taking control of the persons.
		They're going to put people under their thumb.
		And that's what's going to happen.
		He's doing exactly what Hitler did.
		And that's what he reads Hitler.
		He follows other Trump does.
		That's what they're doing.
		People need to wake up.
		Republicans need to wake up.
		And they need to stand up against them.
		Republican senators and Congressman D. Stand up.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Edward in Manhattan, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Edward.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, Nina.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		I noticed that President Bush is saying we're sending troops, National Guard, to the border.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		President Trump?
unidentified		You know, all of this sounds really good, but the reality is the cartels pretty much run the seven northern states of Mexico.
		And they generate between somewhere between $75 and $100 billion a year in revenue from their drug business, fentanyl business, and the travel business, which has been very profitable for them in recent years, as we know.
		You know, that's not going to do it.
		Sending troops to the border.
		Biden did that.
		He said, oh, we're sending troops to the border.
		The National Guard ended up going to the border to do paperwork for CBP.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Edward, what do you think of Mexico sending troops to the border, to their border?
unidentified		Yeah, thank you.
		That's what I'm really getting at.
		I think what would really be necessary, because I don't trust the Mexicans, the Mexicans love the dollar reserves that are coming out of the cartels' businesses.
		You know, what would work would be a joint operation, the U.S. Army and the Mexican Army, Mexican Marines, whatever force they have, to go into the seven states and kick you know what there and get the cartels under control because it's a shadow government.
		I mean, there's almost anarchy there.
		There's a shadow government, and the Mexican government has allowed them to operate unimpeded for decades, you know.
		And the other thing I'll say is that everyone thinks about the drugs coming to the states, right, coming north.
		Well, for all the drugs coming north, you have to move cash south.
		The cash moving operation is just enormous.
		And I never hear anybody focus in the media on that very much.
		So I'd like to just draw attention to that.
		And they know that a backpack carries about $600,000 in cash from what they've captured.
		But they have all kinds of methods and ways of getting this.
		The border is very, very porous.
		And unless we have an incursion, I call it an incursion of U.S. combined U.S. forces and Mexican forces into the seven northern states, I just don't think you're going to see any improvement at all.
		The cartels also, by the way, have their own armies with weapons.
		And weaponry is just very sophisticated in those armies.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, nearest Monique in Washington, D.C., Line for Democrats.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		I'm going to try to make this as quickly as possible.
		Haven't called in in a while.
		I have two issues.
		To the lady in West Virginia, the reason why Elon Musk is in the Treasury Department, because he received $20 billion in funds from the United States.
		And the DEI, to all the people who are making it seem as if the DEI is a big issue for African Americans, we literally can adjust just to any cultures.
		The true recipients of the DEI are white women.
		The second is Latinos and Asians.
		LGBTQ.
		African Americans are the last people on the list for any type of DEI initiatives.
		The DEI is not specifically for us.
		It is to ensure that everybody within that specific work organization knows how to communicate with each other because you don't want to say the wrong thing to your Asian co-worker or your Latino coworker because you don't want to do things like that.
		So the purpose of the program is to ensure that we all have respect for each other.
		We understand each other's cultures.
		And I'm just confused.
		I'm shocked.
		We have to do better.
		This company has to stop looking at race and culture and everything else and making it seem as if that's the number one thing that's bad within the United States of America.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Monique.
		And also for your schedule, Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu is in town.
		This is CBS, Trump, and Netanyahu to hold a joint press conference at the White House Tuesday, which is today.
		And we will cover that here on C-SPAN.
		It's scheduled for around 5 o'clock, but be watching our network for more information on that so you can watch that live.
		And here is Mary Joe, Montrose, Pennsylvania, Republican.
		Hi, Mary Joe.
unidentified		Good morning.
		You know, I was thinking why nobody has brought up term limits for Congress.
		It seems like, you know, they get elected.
		I don't know how much work gets done because then they're back on the campaign trail trying to get reelected again.
		So I wondered why nobody brought up term limits for Congress.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What would you like the term limit to be?
		How many years?
		Or how many terms?
unidentified		Maybe two.
unidentified		I think that's fair.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So for the House, that would be four years.
unidentified		Excuse me?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So for the House, that would be four years?
unidentified		Yes.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what about for the Senate?
unidentified		Maybe three, two or three.
		But, you know, it wasn't set up for somebody to make a career.
		You know, you serve your country by being a senator or Congress, and then you return to private life, you know, like the president.
		You know, it's not made to be a career.
		But a lot of politicians have made it that way.
		And I think that a lot more work would get done and people would focus on the job at hand if they didn't have to worry about getting reelected every few years for Lord knows how many decades.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Mir Scott in Independent in Florida.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Scott.
unidentified		Hey, good morning.
		I've enjoyed listening the last couple weeks as we've been watching what the new administration has been doing.
		And it's been surprising to all of us.
		But most people who are calling in, and I'm sure listening to this, are older like me and have seen that this country is a country that swings on a pendulum.
		It goes back and forth, back and forth.
		And the country in the last four years became exhausted by what was happening with the current administration, with that administration, and the country voted them out.
		And now everyone calls in, and I don't know who's right.
		I don't know who's wrong.
		No one here knows who's right or wrong.
		But the scorecard, the report card will happen in the midterm elections.
		And so if you are upset what's happening right now, if in the midterm elections America says, let's keep it going, then that means what Trump and the administration are doing is just fine.
		If the midterm scorecard says no, we want the Democrats in control, because if they do get in control in the midterms, you can guarantee there'll be impeachment.
		You can guarantee there'll be a total shutdown of any progress in our government.
		That at that point, America is saying, hey, enough of that as well.
		So let's just let Mr. Trump and his administration do what they were asked to do, and then let's let the midterms decide what we think.
		Thanks a lot.
		You have a great day.
		Me too.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And Linda in Massachusetts, Line for Democrats.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I think I agree with the previous caller about the pendulum.
		I have been trying to reassure friends of mine with that comment.
		But this is not a pendulum from Republican to Democrat.
		It's Democrat to what people are now honestly saying Nazis.
		I was taught for 37 years.
		I am a liberal person, but I raised my sons to honor our country.
		Three of my sons are Eagle Scouts.
		When I was a kindergarten teacher, I always taught the kids a patriotic song, a different one every month.
		So proud to be an American.
		No longer that.
		I also put the picture of the president up in my classroom.
		And I couldn't do that now as a teacher.
		I wouldn't be able to.
		I'm retired.
		Couldn't do it because how can we admire someone who is in it for his own personal and his family's financial gain, who mocks our laws, just mocks everything about what our country has been established with with the Constitution, and putting Elon Musk, who parades his little tiny child around as like a decoration on his shoulders, yet expect people to go back to the office on a week's notice.
		Are they going to be able to bring their children to their meetings as he's doing?
		Our country is in such a mess and it's so embarrassing.
		And I wish the pendulum, my dear, was as simple as that, but I don't think it will be.
		I think we are headed for a change in our structure of our country where we're going to have no longer 50 United States.
		Thank you.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Here's Mary Jean in Edgewood, sorry, Edgewater, Maryland, Republican.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I kind of am building on some of the comments from the former people, former callers.
		And I was a 43-year government employee.
		I went to Georgetown University.
		I'm not, you know, I'm on the Republican line, but I, you know, I sometimes feel a little sad that our country's come to the point where we label people Nazis and things like that.
		But my concern is that when anybody, as a GS2, when I first started out in the government, I had to take an oath of office and swear to support and defend the Constitution.
		And I do have a lot of friends.
		I've been Democrat most of my life.
		I voted for Obama twice.
		I was really disappointed when Hillary lost, but I think the pendulum swung a little bit too far off.
		And the strength of this country was always that it's not what we do, it's how we do it.
		And we were all supposed to support and defend the Constitution.
		And I don't know if Elon Musk took the oath of office.
		I don't know if his employees took the oath of office.
		I don't think he was confirmed by Congress.
		So I'm wondering, are we bypassing the the Constitution here, and that's all I have to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And let's talk to Benjamin in Alabama, Independent Line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I'd like to make a statement.
		To lie, to make truth-telling a criminal offense, to discourage the sharing of the basic necessities for living and cooperation, to deny justice, to make exploitation of others a legal and lawful practice, the endorsement and foundational support for the exploitation of human beings,
		to worship, honor, and epitomize the manifestation of selfish greed, the use of cruelty, violence, and genocide to achieve power over other societies.
		These things can make a nation a leader of an evil empire, having its chosen paradigms for greatness to be Nazi Germany or the Zionist government of Israel and the culture of America's plantation system, including the means by which America acquired its land from the indigenous inhabitants.
		How one defines greatness is very important, keeping in mind the actual relationship between means and ends.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Benjamin.
		And here's Jill in Woodward, Iowa, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, I find it interesting that you knew I was a Democrat because they never even asked me.
		So I don't know.
		Are you guys keeping track these days or what?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		You called on the Democrats' line.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		That's how we know.
unidentified		Oh, well, my big thing is this is all going back to Citizens United because we have so much money in politics.
		It's all the money in politics is why, you know, the Congress has been completely made irrelevant because, you know, Trump will threaten to primary anybody and he's got the money to back him to knock anybody out that he wants.
		Until we get the money out of politics, nothing will ever, ever, ever get fixed.
		And now that the professional grifters are actually in charge of everything, it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon.
		And for all those people who, you know, they keep talking about the weaponization of government and everybody went after Trump and they just made stuff up about him.
		The problem is he's a lawbreaker.
		He just continually breaks laws.
		Everything that he got was what he earned.
		And already he's broken two laws for sure in terms of he when he fired the IGs, there is a law about how he had to notify Congress.
		He didn't do it.
		And now he's breaking the impoundment law.
		Congress made a specific law that the president could not refuse to spend money that Congress had already allocated.
		And now he's breaking that one.
		And he's just going to continue to break laws because there's no way to stop him with a government that has been bought and paid for by millionaires.
		And I just think it is so disgusting that the richest man in the world is now taking the food out of the mouths of the very, very poorest, well, and medicine out of the sickest people in the world.
		And I'm sorry, Elon Musk's worldview was formed in apartheid South Africa.
		He may be an American citizen, but we were his third choice.
		And I don't think he did swear an oath to the Constitution, and he sure as hell is not following it.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Lee in Burlington, Vermont, Republican, you're next.
unidentified		I think I live in a state that is very, very blue.
		And I've been a Republican my entire life.
		And I have to say that I found that people's shock and his approach in the last two weeks, that people's shock and awe, has a lot to do not only with the people that he has chosen to surround himself with, including Musk, but also the people he is choosing to run the agencies.
		He's chosen a vaccine denier to be in charge of our health care system.
		He's chosen a person who has called the biggest leaker and traitor in our history, Snowden, in charge of our intel community.
		And he's chosen somebody who's never served in law enforcement as our FBI director.
		These are insane choices.
		They're insane picks.
		And I don't care what side of the aisle you are.
		These are people who should not be in charge of these agencies.
		And Musk is a whole nother level of crazy.
		What is he doing?
		Why is he there?
		And I agree with the callers before that this man has not been confirmed by Congress.
		What is his position?
		I'm asking you to explain it to me because I've read article after article after article after article from various sources.
		And I still don't understand a thing that he's supposed to be doing.
		So I would like to see him hold before our Congress and our Senate and have an actual hearing about the man and what his intentions are.
		So that's all I have to say.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Lee.
		Brenda in Michigan, Line for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		First of all, United States is being destroyed within.
		We have a gangster in the White House.
		We have our Supreme Court is wicked.
		And Elon Musk, I was always told that you must be born in the United States in order to hold a government job.
		And why is that?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So you have to be an American citizen.
		By the way, Brenda, we're going to just take a look at the right outside the White House.
		This is Caroline Levitt, the White House spokesperson.
unidentified		Prime Minister Net Yahoo, do you know if you've seen that, Mr. Hunter?
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		I have not heard that report, nor have I been made aware if the president has seen that or not.
		But I can check.
		And as for Mr. Witkoff, I think you'll be hearing from him out here today.
		We're going to try to make him available to talk to the press.
unidentified		Great.
		And also, just about China and tariffs.
		One, is there any update on when the president is expected to speak with President Xi and also any reaction to their 10 to 15 percent tariffs that they now impose in retaliation?
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		I don't have any updates on when that call will take place.
		As you heard from the president yesterday, it is being scheduled and will happen very soon.
		But the president made it very clear with the 10% tariff on China that he is not going to allow China to continue to source and distribute deadly fentanyl into our country.
		That was the reason for this tariff.
		It was a retaliatory tariff on China for the last four years of their unprecedented distribution of fentanyl into our nation's borders.
		So, well, when that call happens, we will provide a readout like we always do.
unidentified		What do you expect from Nedan Yahoo's B-Cid?
unidentified		Why isn't that part of Senator Confident that the truth should be called?
karoline leavitt ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you'll hear more from both President Trump and the Prime Minister later this afternoon.
		And I think the fact that this is the first working visit from a foreign leader here at the White House shows that President Trump will continue to stand strongly with Israel, and he is wholeheartedly committed to ensuring all of the hostages return home and standing with our Israeli allies.
		Thank you, guys.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And back to the calls.
		We are in open forum.
		William is calling us from Anderson, South Carolina, Independent Line.
		Hi, William.
unidentified		Hi, Minnie.
unidentified		How are you this morning?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Listen, I'm 67 years old.
		I've been a student of politics and history my whole life.
		I was in the first grade when JFK was assassinated, and I followed through Vietnam and the riots of the 60s and Watergate and the whole bit.
		I've never been more fearful for our country than I am right now.
		We have, as was previously stated, we have a criminal in our White House, and things are out of control because he's got the Supreme Court evidently in his pocket as well.
		And all the Republicans in Congress are failing in their oaths and showing nothing but cowardice.
		I hope the American people will wake up, raise hell, call their congressmen, and put a stop to some of this bullishness.
		They're throwing due process, the Constitution out the window.
		Trump's gone crazy with his crypto stuff.
		He's a total violation of the emoluments clause with his, you know, how many conflicts of interest we can't even count.
		And people have got to wake up and raise hell.
		I mean, our leadership is failing us.
		So it's up to we, the people, I believe.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Janine in North Manchester, Indiana, Democrat.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Well, if the people rise up now that they have our financial information, are we concerned that they are going to cut off our funds, our Social Security, all our benefits?
		I mean, they know where to get us in our homes now.
		And it seems to me that Guentanimo Bay would make a great Auschwitz.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		John in Bossier City, Louisiana, Independent Line.
unidentified		Yes, thank you for taking my call.
		I've never called in before, but I've been listening to C-SPAN for a little while now.
		And I'm just, I guess, more or less concerned about the hysterics that I hear from Republicans and Democrats.
		You know, the proof has always been in the pudding for me.
		I'm a 70-year-old man, and I've watched a lot in my life.
		And I'm just really concerned about the hysterics and the vitriol that come from both sides.
		And I believe it's brought on by the media, and it's brought on by what we listen to instead of our trust in God and our faith.
		And I wish more people would stop and take consideration.
		And I know that we don't all worship the same God, but I do know that peace is a tenet of about every religion.
		And the proof's in the pudding.
		Give the man a chance.
		We gave Biden a chance for four years.
		I didn't argue about that either.
		Didn't like some things.
		But you know what?
		I just wish America would wake up.
		And so, John, you mentioned the media.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What kind of media do you watch?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Where do you get your news?
unidentified		I really watch it all.
		I kind of watch all the networks pretty much.
		What I don't watch live, I sometimes DVR it.
		And I just, it's amazing the differences of opinions on the same exact subject.
		You know, somewhere involved is truth.
		And I don't think it's available much anymore.
		But I do think if we'll sit and be patient and pray, be a praying people, a people of faith.
		And, you know, the Bible tells us that God puts leaders in positions at the time he puts them there.
		And there are reasons for it.
		And I just, I pray for America.
		I pray for the divisiveness.
		And I hope that.
		We could come together and be a godly people again, regardless of the God you worship.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, John.
		And that's it for Open Forum.
		Up next, we've got Democratic Freshman Class President Julie Johnson.
		She joins us to discuss not only concerns she and other Democrats have about the Republican agenda, but also the actions of the Trump administration.
		Stay with us.
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mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		We are joined now by Representative Julie Johnson.
		She's a Democrat of Texas and a member of the Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security Committees.
		Welcome.
unidentified		Thank you so much.
unidentified		It's great to be here this morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So tell us a little bit about your background and what your priorities are for Congress.
unidentified		Well, I come from the state legislature.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		So I served three terms in the Texas House on judiciary, insurance, and appropriations, focusing a lot on health care policy.
unidentified		Unfortunately, you know, Texas leads the nation in some very undesirable statistics.
		We lead the nation in maternal mortality.
		We lead the nation in infant mortality and lead the nation in persons without access to health coverage.
		So that was something I focused a lot on in the state legislature, and I hope to do that in Congress.
		And I'm a lawyer.
		I practiced law in Dallas for 33 years.
		I'm married and have two sons.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And how's it been so far?
		You've got a month in.
		How's the first month been?
unidentified		It's crazy.
		It's been a fire hose for sure, getting used to it.
		I think having the legislative experience from the state really does give a leg up to those of us that have that experience.
		And in the freshman class, I'm really amazed at how many of us come from the state legislature.
		I think we have one of the most capable, experienced freshman classes coming into the Congress, and it really has made a difference.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And so a lot of my staff has been with me for a long time, understand the process, just getting used to DC and trying to figure out my way around those tunnels.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		It is confusing.
		I mentioned that you're on the Foreign Affairs and Homeland Security.
		You recently took a trip to New Orleans, which is where the Super Bowl is going to be played this Sunday.
		Tell us about that trip.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, so the Homeland Security, I'm on the Emergency Management Subcommittee, and they had organized a trip down there to inspect the area where the attack had occurred on January 1st and make sure that security measures have been remedied to prepare for the Super Bowl.
		It's a Sierra 1 security level event, meaning that it's the top level of security and that the federal government on all levels are involved in that.
		But the thing that was really disturbing to me was that the FBI special agent in charge for New Orleans was terminated as opposed to Trump's wholesale clean the house of the FBI and destruction of that.
unidentified		And right before the Super Bowl, after years of planning, I think that was irresponsible and reckless on his part.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So who's in charge now of security for that event?
unidentified		There's folks in the Department of Homeland Security and they're doing a great job.
		You know, people have been planning, but it's a multi-governmental event.
		You know, there's multiple agencies.
		They all have pieces.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And as you know, whenever there's a weak link in any of it, it exposes all of it.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		I was just really disgusted at the complete disregard, dismantling of the FBI, the agency that's responsible for homeland terrorism investigation and many other things, and that they would remove somebody who was so critical to that mission to keep the people safe in New Orleans.
unidentified		I just think that was irresponsible on part of the Trump administration.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		If you'd like to join our conversation and ask Representative Julie Johnson, a Democrat of Texas, any questions, you can do so.
		Our lines are Republicans, 202-748-8001, Democrats, 202748, 8000, and Independents 202-748-8002.
		Your website says that you're the first openly gay member of Congress from the South.
		So I want to ask you about a couple of things.
		The first is the Trump administration's revoking of the order to allow transgender troops to serve in the U.S. military.
		Tell us about how many people that would affect as far as active duty and Guardian Reserve and what impact you think that might have.
unidentified		Well, it's my understanding that it affects about 10,000 servicemen and women.
		And again, we have people who are willing to put their life on the line for this country, who are willing to put themselves in harm's way, to defend the values of equality for all, for everyone.
		And the transgender members serve with valor.
		They serve with distinction.
		They serve with honor and bravery.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And to just unilaterally, wholesale dismiss them is disrespectful to our men and women of the military, all everyone that serves.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		To say that you can be just summarily discharged from our military service, even though you have served with exemplary honor, just because the president doesn't like a characteristic of you has nothing to do with the quality of your service.
unidentified		It's just disrespectful to everyone that serves.
		And it's really unfortunate.
		We don't have enough people wanting to serve our country in that role.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And to start filtering out a whole segment of folks, not because of their abilities, not because of their qualifications, but because of a political ideology that has nothing to do with their service is really unfortunate in my opinion.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So how do you think the Congress should respond to that?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Advocates who disagree with that and other orders related to LGBTQ plus issues, how do you think they should respond in today's Washington?
unidentified		Well, I think we need to pass legislation.
unidentified		We need to pass the Equality Act that confirms that the LGBTQ community cannot be discriminated against, that we deserve full equality and not bigoted biased policies just based on who we are.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		The other thing that is really disturbing about this whole situation is that the Trump administration has just summarily removed transgender and queer people from all government websites, travel advisors, everything.
unidentified		If you go now on the government sites, it used to say LGBTQ, and now it just says LGB.
		They just took it off.
		And it is so irresponsible, bigoted, discriminatory, and biased.
		It's just outrageous to me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And what are the chances of that Equality Act passing in a Congress-dominated majority Republican?
unidentified		Probably not very high, you know, unfortunately.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, there are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer people, LGBTQ people in every single district across this country.
unidentified		Every single member of the United States Congress represents people in the LGBTQ community.
unidentified		And they have an obligation to represent all their constituents, in my opinion.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		I want to ask you about tariff policy since you're from Texas.
		In 2023, Texas exported about $130 billion worth of goods to Mexico.
		It's also home to the nation's largest port in Laredo, among the southern border.
		What do you think of the tariff policy so far?
unidentified		I don't agree with it.
		I think the tariff policy will increase prices.
		It'll make life harder for people in this country, for people in Texas.
		It'll make groceries expensive.
		We import vast amounts of our produce from Mexico.
		Texas is the ninth largest economy in the entire world, more than many other countries, just the state of Texas.
		And Mexico is our largest trading partner.
		And so these tariffs will wreak havoc on our markets.
		It'll increase prices on a variety of issues and of areas and areas where people just can't afford it.
		They couldn't afford it before, and they're certainly not going to be able to afford it now.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And so for a party who supposedly campaigned on lowering prices, his policies are going to do everything.
unidentified		But I thought it was interesting that after he announced his tariffs, the stock market plunged and was on a deep dive and only it was the stock market that forced that correction.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And the Mexico tariffs have been paused for 30 days.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that this is a good negotiating tactic for Trump?
unidentified		To pause the tariffs?
unidentified		I think Trump.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Well, to say that we're going to put tariffs, get concessions, pause them, maybe get more concessions.
unidentified		Well, he hasn't gotten any new concessions that the Biden administration didn't already have.
		He's not getting concessions.
		What happened is he responded to an uproar of a stock market crash because his financial policies were going to be destructive to our economy.
		And recognizing that this tariff policy and trying to bully Mexico is just not responsible governance.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to callers.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		We'll start with Betty, an independent in Bowdoin, Georgia.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I am totally in favor of equality as long as it includes everyone.
		However, my question to you is: why should we believe what any Democrat tells us when the same people are telling us that never questioned Biden's cognitive abilities and told the American people he was fine and approved of everything he did?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
unidentified		I was trying to hear exactly.
unidentified		I couldn't hear very well.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		So she was saying, why should we trust the Democrats when they were not forthright about President Biden's cognitive abilities and telling us that he was fine?
unidentified		Well, I believe she said she agreed with everything he did, right?
		And so the thing is, is that, yeah, you agree with his policies.
		And the reality of it is we're not his medical providers.
		You know, I agree with many of what President Biden did.
		I thought the infrastructure bill was transformative for our country.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		He certainly didn't show cognitive decline in that.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think the President Biden had great policies that really turned our economy around.
unidentified		If you look at our economic indicators, our economy did better under the Biden administration than it did under the previous Trump administration.
unidentified		And so I think that that demonstrates that he was able to manage the government just fine.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And this is Mark in Pennsylvania, line for Republicans.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Mark, go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, I just wanted to ask you, you have these, like the lady said, how do you trust these Democrats?
		You just had this lady on talking about transgender and they're going to get rid of 10,000.
		What about Trump's appointees?
		How about Richard Grinnell?
		How about the Secretary of Treasury?
		Do you ever talk about them?
		Do you know they're two openly gay men that are married that have children?
		I don't know about the sexual orientation of those two individuals that you referenced.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		I can only look at what the Trump administration is doing policy-wise towards the LGBTQ community by removing all transgender service members from the military, by erasing whole swaths of the LGBTQ community from governmental websites and programs.
unidentified		That's what I'm looking at, and I find that to be very discriminatory and bigoted towards our community.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Joseph in Florida, Independent, you're next.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, Joseph.
unidentified		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling because I have two questions.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		The first question is in reference to federal funding and the responsibilities of our federal republic insofar as normal citizens, when they own property, they have a right to cover themselves by paying for homeowners' insurance.
unidentified		What I don't understand is why our taxpayer funds are being used.
unidentified		Yes, it's a shame when there's a tragedy such as a hurricane, et cetera.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		But should we make normal American citizens pay for others who don't take the responsibility to have, like, say, homeowners' insurance?
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		And then another question that ties a little bit into it is constantly I'm hearing a lot of representatives, journalists constantly saying we are a democracy.
unidentified		Now, while it is true that we vote democratically when we vote officials into office, but we are actually a constitutional federal republic that votes democratically.
		And the responsibility of the government is simply to protect individual rights.
		It's not supposed to interfere so much into our private lives.
		And that's where, of course, with our new administration coming in, I am an independent, but I'm happy that Donald Trump got in.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		But the main problem I have is that there's too much today interference into the private lives of our citizens, including federal spending and all that.
marco rubio ▲ ● ▼		When are we going to go back to being a country of individuals where our lives are private again instead of being exposed?
unidentified		Now, the government does have the right to protect individual rights.
		So when individual rights are being violated, yes, then the government has a right to step in.
		But to force people to pay for others to our taxes, to get involved in people's lives, whether they're, say, for example, have a different sexual orientation.
		That's their business.
		That's their business.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Joseph, let's get an answer on those two things.
unidentified		Well, let's talk about insurance first.
		You know, yes, we have private insurance.
		They're private markets.
		We have private insurance companies.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		They measure risk and they decide whether or not they are going to accept a risk and insure appropriately for that.
unidentified		A lot of times, though, there are some areas where there are not insurance carriers or they choose not to engage in a market.
		An example of that is the Texas Gulf Coast.
		We have the Texas Windstorm Insurance Association, TWIA, which is sort of a collaboration of reinsurance to make sure that people can have affordable insurance.
		We have the National Flood Insurance Program.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		We as the richest country on earth have a society where our government is not going to let thousands and thousands and thousands of its citizens suffer due to a natural disaster.
unidentified		It's too destructive to our life of our country.
		It's too destructive to our economy and our overall production.
		And it's not the moral values that we have.
		So oftentimes insurance will act as sort of a reinsurance, as an extra backstop to cover a lot of the things that regular private insurance won't cover.
		And I think that as a society, that's something that we all want.
		And it is the right thing to do.
		With respect to our democracy, we are a democracy.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I agree with you in that there are certain aspects of life that you either want privacy, you want privacy in your bedroom, you want privacy and sanctity of the physician-patient relationship.
unidentified		I think there's a lot of governmental overreach with abortion access and that kind of thing, trying to regulate how physicians practice.
unidentified		And those are fundamental differences in the two parties that we have right now, with Republicans and Democrats.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		I think Democrats believe in those privacies that you advocated for in terms of not being able to invade LGBT people, not be able to invade the doctor-physician relationship with women seeking health care.
unidentified		And I think that's a big distinction on the parties right now.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Helen in Toledo, Ohio.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Democrat, you're on with Representative Julie Johnson.
unidentified		Well, I'm kind of in a pissle here because I've been trying to get through and thank you for a month or so.
		And I'm just going to hit bases at a few things.
		I'm 85 years old, and I've listened to a lot of them in my age group.
		And what I am so appalled at, in fact, my heart's beating quite fast right now, is that I've lived through 13 administrations and I am so afraid for this country and mainly my children and grandchildren.
		And one of the most things that have got me so in a turmoil is J6.
		That was the most deplorable thing I've ever seen to say.
		It was not a Boy Scout outing.
		It was disgusting.
		And the fact that we as Americans is accepting that is unbelievable.
		And also, people need to reread the Constitution because we're taking it as a joke.
		And this is serious.
		This is why other countries are laughing at us and think we're now at the bottom.
		We're getting at the bottom.
		And the confirmations, they're a joke.
		Are these men so afraid of another man?
		And this is all in the line of dictatorship, fascism, and the whole nine yards.
		This is unbelievable.
		And I'm so concerned.
		Like I said, I've lived through quite a bit.
		My eyesight may be getting better, but I certainly can see through BS.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Ellen.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Congresswoman.
unidentified		Oh, you know, Ellen, I agree with you.
unidentified		I think the January 6th pardons were outrageous.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		You know, we had people who attacked our country, who were seeking to overthrow our government, who were seeking to execute members of our political leadership on both parties because they didn't like the election results.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		They were trying to steal an election.
unidentified		And the fact that, and Capitol Police served with honor, bravery.
		They got injured.
		They were attacked violently.
		We lost one.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And the fact, and then these people were duly charged, convicted by a jury of their peers in our court system, and which is one of the best legal systems of structure in the world.
		The fact that we have an independent judiciary and an independent judicial process, and they were all convicted.
		And for the fact for President Trump to come in on day one and absolve them all is so disrespectful to our court system, to the values of democracy, to the rule of law.
		He's trying to diminish the value and the import of the rule of law in this country.
unidentified		And once we see fall into the abyss of absolute and utter lawlessness, where are we?
		To your point, it is one of the most concerning aspects of the last 30 days.
		And unfortunately, Republicans have been silent.
		Where are they?
		Why are they not standing up?
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		How can you be a party that claims you back the blue?
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		That you support law enforcement and support the pardons of the January 6th rioters who viciously attacked Capitol Police.
unidentified		It's inconsistent.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		So I think that one of the takeaways from here is that Democrats are the ones that truly support our law enforcement.
		We want law enforcement to have the tools they need.
		We want the rule of law that they are seeking to enforce to be upheld, to be enforced, and to be respected.
unidentified		And the Republicans have clearly abandoned all fidelity to law enforcement in this country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And CBS News is reporting FBI is distributing questionnaire probing agents' work on January 6th and the Capitol Riot cases, according to sources.
		What's your reaction to that?
		And is there anything you are going to be doing about it in Congress?
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		It's just horrible.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		You know, I know that members of the Judiciary Committee that have that jurisdiction are certainly looking into that and figuring that out.
unidentified		I wish I served on that committee to get square in the middle of that as well.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		But I think that the fact that leadership of the FBI is, of the president of the Trump administration, is coming in and trying to purge anyone in the FBI that had anything to do with the January 6th investigations is outrageous.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And it's something that we should all be screaming about.
unidentified		It's undermining an agency that's sole mission is to enforce law and order, prosecute dangerous criminals in this country, and keep us safe.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And to be able to weaponize the FBI in such a political fashion is nothing like we have ever seen in this country.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And again, if you value law enforcement, if you value the bravery, if you value our judicial system that's supposedly free from corruption and intimidation, then you need to be outraged by this.
unidentified		There are countries in the world that have a corrupt judicial system where people cannot get a fair trial, a fair prosecution in the system.
unidentified		And when you start undermining and politically weaponizing a major branch of law enforcement, it's really destructive to our country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Jonathan, a Republican in Wilton, Connecticut.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, good morning.
		Thank you, Congresswoman, for serving.
		You know, look, the worst crime we see in this country is in these sanctuary cities.
		And, you know, California has the common sense to finally pass some laws to prosecute people going into stores and just ripping stuff off.
		You know, I think, you know, one of the biggest things you didn't mention is the powers these presidents have is too much, right?
		I mean, President Biden dismisses two, you know, his brothers for possible graft.
		That is more outrageous to me than anything.
		I mean, during COVID, $250 billion was stolen from the American taxpayer.
		Again, this is from AP News, if you don't believe me.
		So, yeah, we're upset about all these things going on, but this country's been run to the ground since NAFTA, Clinton allowing Wall Street to control our economy.
		The Dems have sold out to money.
		So we've elected a guy that's very sketchy.
		Do we want the billionaires running the country or all the Dems and Republicans who are looking for the money running the country?
		You know, this country is, you know, and then, I mean, you look at, I ran away to San Francisco.
		I know the gay thing.
		Okay, so 1972, the mine shapped in New York City.
		I'm tired of watching.
		We've got to bring some morality back to this country.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jonathan.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Any response?
unidentified		Well, there's a lot going on there in that.
unidentified		Let me just address the immigration part of all of that that he put out there.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's no doubt that our immigration system is broken in this country, and it needs to be fixed.
unidentified		Our border has been a mess.
		We can't have people coming to this country swimming a river and being smuggled into back of trucks.
		The system must be overhauled.
		And I think it's going to take a bipartisan coalition of people.
		I'm hopeful to be part of that.
		I just got assigned to the Border Committee of Homeland Security.
		I'm excited about that.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		But what we need to do is we really need to address the visa system and the work permit system.
unidentified		There are a lot of businesses in this country that need labor, that don't have an adequate workforce.
		There are a lot of people that want to come to this country and work, but our visa structure has not been overhauled in decades.
		And we need to really revise the ability for people to come and work here legally, go back, have seasonal back and forth.
		In Texas, we have a lot of need for seasonal agricultural work for people to come in and work and then go back home.
		And we make it very, very difficult for people to do that.
		We have a chronic shortage of employees across a variety of sectors of our workforce.
		And our immigration population has always filled a need in our economic structure for that.
		And so I do think we need to look at strengthening border security.
		We need to have a fair, fast, and final immigration system where people can get processed in a very timely way.
		We need to deploy more resources to making sure that people can get a hearing within 60 days, not six years.
		It shouldn't take, you know, a physician I know in Dallas, it took her 16 years to get a citizenship.
		16 years.
		That is outrageous for people to have to wait.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Congresswoman, you said that there's an economic need for immigrants in your state.
		Our previous guest from the Center for Immigration Studies said we have enough people in this country to handle all those jobs.
		It's just a question of paying them fairly and under the right circumstances.
		How would you respond to that?
		Weren't there Americans to take those jobs?
unidentified		Well, that's not what the industries are telling me.
		You know, when I meet with businesses and I meet with industry groups, what is one of your biggest needs?
		Workforce development is one of them.
		For example, the Hospital Association.
		I've met with many of them.
		They're having a heck of a time getting floor nurses in our hospital.
		And we have nursing programs, but they're not wanting to do that work.
		Working in nursing homes.
		I've meet with hotel chains.
		They have a hard time finding people to do cleaning and to clean rooms and to help do all that kind of work.
		I mean, there's a lot of work in this country that needs to be done to keep our economy moving.
		That's hard.
		It's not glamorous.
		It's not sexy.
		It's not stuff that people necessarily want to do, but it's still work that needs to be done.
		And these industry groups, when I meet with them, they're saying they have a huge shortage and a huge need for increased workforce.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk to Nancy in Connecticut, Democrat.
		Good morning.
		Yes.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		The Republican voters voted in a convicted felon, and shame on them.
		Now, I call the Republican Party the party of takeaway party.
		Please give an example of what the Democrats have done for us over the years.
		Thank you.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you can, you know, I think a great example is making sure that we have our social safety nets.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		We need Social Security and Medicare to stay functioning.
unidentified		It is a critical part of the morality of our country that we're not going to have our seniors live in abject poverty.
		I think that I think also the Biden's infrastructure bill most recently.
		Our national infrastructure has been crumbling.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		We need resources, investments in our airports, our bridges, our roadways, our cybersecurity.
		All of those issues are fundamental to our national security, to our quality of life.
		And I think Biden has in the infrastructure bill and the CHIPS Act trying to bring in manufacturing of really key computer equipment and chips that really are propelling our country forward was very significant that happened in the recent time.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Tom in West Baldwin, Maine, Republican, good morning.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing today?
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		I've been paying attention to all this back and forth between Democrats and between Republicans and all this and that.
		You know, I watched where Jeffries sat back and said, it's going to be a smooth transition.
		Everyone's going to get along.
		We're all going to do the best for this country.
louie gohmert ▲ ● ▼		And then two hours later, he's on there saying how they're going to be fighting in the streets and they're going to be fighting in the government to stop Trump.
unidentified		Okay.
		It's really sad that they're doing this because Trump is trying to turn this country back around so that we can get back on our feet.
		And the conviction they made on him was all lies and the government knows it.
		And everyone just turns their back.
		And I think the government needs to shut their mouths and tend to the country, stop fighting and acting like children.
		You know, maybe we'll give them all lollipop or an ice cream.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right, Tom, let's get to a response.
unidentified		Well, Tom, I disagree with you.
		I think that Trump was duly convicted.
		Again, the rule of law worked there in that instance.
		And, you know, the Democrats are.
		We are willing to.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I've worked in a very bipartisan fashion in the Texas legislature as a Democrat.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		I've passed a lot of the legislation and worked very productively with my Republican colleagues on bills that were rational, that made sense, that helped the American people.
unidentified		And I think Democrats are in that space.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		We've always said, if we can come together and work to lower your grocery prices, to make cars more accessible, to make it easier to get a mortgage, reduce some of the regulation in that space, improve our country, we're all here for it.
		But what we're not here for is an unconstitutional power grab where he is trying to take the power of the purse and power of the Congress away from the legislative branch and consolidate even more power in the executive branch.
		He has no legal authority at all to not put out the funding that was duly appropriated by Congress in previous sessions.
unidentified		His wholesale cancellation of USAID is unconstitutional.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		His putting in Elon Musk, a private citizen, to take your confidential security financial data out of our treasury database is alarming and not okay.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		And he's trying to redirect the power of the purse and consolidate all of that power and really dismantle our constitutional protections that our framers have put in place that have kept this country strong for over 200 years now.
unidentified		And so what he's doing is absolutely amoral and wrong.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Marcus in Brownsburg, Indiana, Democrat, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
unidentified		So really, I just had a question.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		Real quick, Marcus.
unidentified		Okay, as far as dysfunction in our country, it all boils down to money and politics.
		And I just have a question for the Congresswoman.
		Do you take corporate PAC money?
		If so, from whom?
		Yes, I take corporate PAC money.
julie johnson ▲ ● ▼		I think corporate PACs are made up of employees who work for companies who give $20 a month out of their paycheck to see to it that they have a better life.
unidentified		Most of these employee PACs want equality for all people.
		They want good access to health care.
		And I'm representing those values in the United States Congress.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Representative Julie Johnson, Democrat of Texas.
		Thanks so much for coming in.
unidentified		My pleasure.
unidentified		Thanks for having me.
mimi geerges ▲ ● ▼		And that'll do it for us today at Washington Journal.
		We're back again tomorrow morning at 7 a.m.
		And we're going to take you right over to the Senate where senators are gathering for a Senate Finance Committee vote on the nomination of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. As Health Secretary.
unidentified		On this Tuesday morning in Washington, D.C., waiting for the Senate Finance Committee meeting to get underway.
		Coming up in about 10 to 15 minutes, we're expecting lawmakers to vote on whether RFK Jr.'s nomination as Health and Human Services Secretary to the Senate floor for consideration.
		Here's how we think things will play out this morning.
		First, we'll hear from Committee Chair Mike Crapo of Idaho and the top Democrat on the panel, Ron Wyden of Oregon, each expected to speak for about five minutes.
		And then the vote, and afterwards, there'll be statements from any other members of the committee who wish to speak.
		Now, one lawmaker we could hear from is Senator Bill Cassidy.
		Now, last week, the Louisiana Republican said that he was struggling with the nominee's reticence to publicly support vaccines despite the overwhelming evidence that they're safe and effective.
		Republicans' one-vote edge in the finance committee means that Senator Cassidy could ultimately keep RFK Jr. from getting a favorable recommendation from the panel should all the Democrats vote against him.
		We're now waiting for Chairman Crapo to gavel the meeting into session.
		You're watching live coverage here on.

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