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Jan. 2, 2025 11:59-13:09 - CSPAN

01:09:51

Public Affairs Events

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john mcardle

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henry olsen

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Again, we're going to try to get y'all as much information as possible so any additional information will be put out through press releases.
		Thank you so very much.
		Are we going to be making burden free industry only?
		Are we going to be allowing parties to throw production to make a new increase with this industry?
		We'll continue to bring you updates on the New Orleans attack on the C-SPAN networks as we take you back now to Washington Journal in progress.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Give me some of the base concerns that you could be referring to here versus the things he ran on.
unidentified		Yeah, there's no interest, for example, in the sorts of things Chip Roy wants to do in slashing the federal government.
		That's not what Donald Trump ran on.
		That's not what the American people want.
		If Donald Trump is going to pursue a Chip Roy strategy to the federal budget, he will throw away his advantage.
		There's no interest in fighting a religious conservative culture war.
		Protecting liberty, yes.
		Fighting against progressive excesses and things like transgender issues?
		Yes.
		Fighting a religious culture war to reestablish traditional Christianity as the social norm in the country, which is something favored on the right.
		No.
		So those are two examples of things.
		You want to walk down those paths.
		You're going to throw away your chance for a center-right political realignment.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How important is tomorrow's Speaker vote to Donald Trump keeping this realignment?
unidentified		You have to have a successful presidency, and that means you have to have control of Congress.
		If the Speaker's vote ends up whether Johnson wins or not, with the same sort of mess that we've had for the last few years, where there's no Republican majority that can push things through, that impedes Trump's ability to succeed.
		So if Republicans want a realignment where over time they will move the country to the right, they should stop fighting and start talking.
		And that means a uncontroversial re-election of Speaker Johnson, whether he's the perfect person or not, because the long-term interests of the party dictate a successful first term, and that means fighting together, not at each other.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Henry Olsen with us until 9.30 Eastern.
		So go ahead and get your calls in.
		202748-8000 for Democrats, 202748-8001 for Republicans.
		And it's 202-748-8002 for Independents as folks are calling in.
		What do you make about this inter-party battle over H-1B visas right now in the Republican Party?
unidentified		Yeah, well, there's a lot of tension within the coalition, as there always is.
		You know, when Abraham Lincoln created the Republican Party, he had to combine people who were immigrants and anti-immigrants into one party.
		The Know-Nothings and the German immigrants had to be in the same party.
		So there's always tensions within a party.
		But what we know from other countries is that if you're going to create a working-class party, which is what Donald Trump is doing, you have to lean into that realignment, which means that whether it's H-1V visas or not, you have to have a much more restrictive immigration policy than what you had before.
		If he's going to give the old guard, the Libertarian Guard, the H-1B visas, he has to be even tougher on the other aspects to keep this coalition together because the new voters he got are working-class voters who want actions on their issues, and that includes shutting down the border, having a tight labor market, and real growing wages for the lower middle class and the middle class.
		And you can't do that with a loose immigration policy.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned Obama in 2008 and then to 2010.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Are there other places where you see there was a realignment possible that did not happen, that was squandered in the middle of the moment?
unidentified		Is that Bill Clinton also ran as a uniter, not a divider, and then pushed things that his base wanted, most notably what was called Clinton care at the time, which was that era's version of dramatic federal government expansion in health care.
		He also pushed an increase in taxes, including an energy tax, the BTU tax that would have hit everybody.
		And what happened was Republicans drew even in party alignment and in some polls passed the Democrats for the first time.
		Even Reagan hadn't been able to do that.
		And then Gingrich takes in, and immediately moves to start cutting the budget, which is not what those former Democrats who were willing to give him a chance wanted.
		By the end of 1995, the Democrats have their partisan advantage again.
		Clinton wins an A-point reelection, and the chance for a mid-1990s realignment thrown away by recklessness.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Do realignments happen more often these days or the possibility of realignments than in the past?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And I'm thinking back to a very long period in which Democrats controlled the House and Senate here in Washington.
unidentified		Well, typically, realignments, for whatever reason, tend to happen at a 40-year cycle.
		That used to be almost exactly a 36-year cycle.
		And what we've been overdue for another realignment for quite some time, meaning that the old questions that drove the old party allegiances have faded.
		The new questions that drive new party allegiance become crucial.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		And neither party has taken advantage of it.
unidentified		And what we've seen is growing people, numbers of people who say they're independents, growing people who say they distrust institutions.
		What they want is a realignment.
		What they want is both parties to stop fighting their base wars and start answering the new questions that the people in the middle want answered.
		And the first party that does that will have the realignment.
		What we saw was that Biden chose to govern a little bit more from the base.
		His party lost.
		Trump has a new historic possibility.
		If he governs to answer those questions, he can give his party a multi-decadal gift.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Callers lined up for you.
		Henry Olson with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
		His podcast is Beyond the Polls.
		He's a columnist.
		C-SPAN viewers familiar with him.
		Susie here in Georgia is up first.
		Republican, go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I am very grateful for this speaker this morning because he is getting down to the basics, common sense.
		I do have a question, but before I ask it, I have a concern about give an inch, take a mile, the old adage.
		And we have been watching the current administration give everybody an inch and they take 10,000 miles.
		So I am concerned.
		But my question is, with this change coming from the Democratic view, more active in our government to a Republican conservative view, what is that going to do to the progressive agenda?
		We've had the progressives ruling us since for over 100 years now.
		Do you feel that is going to be fixed?
		Thank you very much.
		You know, what we're going to be seeing if Republicans are successful is establishing a new default definition of what it means to be American, what it means to the relationship between the state and the individual.
		It's going to be one that is much more accommodative of helping people who need it and not helping people who don't.
		You know, when you have a state-driven system, what you find is a lot of people who get government protection or government subsidy who don't really need it.
		You know, you take a look at the millionaires who are getting the housing mortgage deduction.
		They don't need a tax cut to afford a house.
		You know, the big universities with $55 billion endowments who get taxed at the rate of 1%.
		You know, Warren Buffin says he doesn't think that his secretary should pay a higher rate than he does.
		Well, you know, he pays a 10 times greater rate than Harvard, but he has the same amount of wealth.
		Why is that?
		So a Republican-led solution will start to chip away at that sort of thing.
		It's not going to throw away the New Deal.
		I mean, Americans want an extensive government social safety net and protections.
		What they don't want is a cocoon or a blanket that suffocates them or that gives their money to people who don't need it.
		A Republican direction will chip away at that excess and return that to the average person.
		And that's one way in which what's happened over the last hundred years won't be eliminated because Americans want a lot of what's happened over the last hundred years.
		But you will stop seeing the progressive state-first government always solution being the answer.
		Instead, you'll look to does somebody need help?
		They'll get it.
		If somebody doesn't, we'll say no.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		To the first state, this is Edward in Dover, Democrat.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
		I'm calling.
		How do you respond to people who call in on C-SPAN, for example, today, and say that Donald Trump is the greatest president in American history since George Washington?
		How do you respond to that kind of ignorance?
		Well, I would call it exuberance.
		I think Trump and some of his fans are a little bit exuberant in their support.
		It's difficult to say that Donald Trump has had a more impactful presidency than the man who founded our country, than the man who saved it during the Civil War, and so forth.
		So I would call it exuberance rather than ignorance.
		And if a fan of Trump calls in and asks me, how can you say that, I'll respond to the question directly.
		But that's how I'll respond to this call.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a ranking of your top three or four favorite presidents?
unidentified		Oh, gosh.
		I think the top three or four most impactful presidents are the sort of people who created realignments because they solve the major political questions of our day.
		Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan.
		I think they're the five presidents who have ever had significant realignments.
		And I think anyone who looks at them would say, yeah, they really changed the direction of the country.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Felix in Montgomery Village, Maryland, Democrat.
		Good morning.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hi, Speaker.
		I hear your background is research as a senior fellow.
		And I wanted to get your input on policy changes for realignment, especially regarding immigration.
		So with stricter immigration, which is the direction it sounds like that the country is going to be heading into, in my profession in accounting, the AICPA recently changed from the American Institute of Certified Public Accounts to the Association of International Certified Public Accounts.
		So from a micro perspective, we're seeing this realignment sort of occur already with the licensure being offered overseas.
		So I was kind of curious how you would, how do you feel about that?
		Yeah, so immigration is clearly tied with trade, which is clearly tied with offshoring and the ability to not manufacture goods, but manufacture ideas overseas, which is the sorts of things that an accountant would do.
		And Donald Trump, a lot of Republicans in 2016 were talking about immigration.
		Only Donald Trump made the necessary connection of immigration and trade.
		You can't be free trade in goods and ideas in anti-immigration.
		You have to be both or neither.
		And I think what you'll see is, as Trump understands that, is that you'll see attempts to make sure that trade in ideas and goods only happens when Americans are already assured of rising job opportunities up and down the educational spectrum and rising real incomes up and down the income spectrum.
		And that'll be a sea change in economic thought.
		It'll be a direct assault on the post-1944 and post-1989 global consensuses.
		And if it is successful, it will produce a prosperous and socially cohesive America.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The caller mentioned your day job at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, a senior fellow there.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Explain what EPPC is.
unidentified		EPPC is a think tank, that unique Washington institution where we make policy recommendations and arguments that policymakers and thought leaders listen to and incorporate.
		We have a Judeo-Christian perspective, which is to say one informed by the anthropology of the whole human person.
		We think there's a body and a soul, not just looking at material concerns.
		And my particular expertise is politics and public opinion and how that shapes the sort of policies that can be considered and adopted.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And what do you talk about on Beyond the Polls?
unidentified		Beyond the Polls, what I usually talk about is elections.
		Try and dig really deep.
		If you're the sort of person who likes to look at crosstabs and precinct returns and understand polling methodology.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		And we have several that do.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we do.
unidentified		And this is the podcast for you.
unidentified		I'll also this year be looking at the intra-party fights that what is it, you know, we talked at, you talked about the H-1BVs.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to have Republicans from all sides talking about whither the new party.
unidentified		And I'll have Democrats on all sides talking about which direction should the Democrats go.
unidentified		And I'll be covering some international elections starting with Germany on February 23rd.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Anywhere you get your podcast, you can find Beyond the Polls.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much.
unidentified		I don't know of a platform that doesn't have me.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Tony in Houston, Texas, Independent.
		Good morning.
		You're on with Henry Olson.
unidentified		Yes, good morning, sir.
		So far, I've not heard anything specifically I disagreed with.
		I called in on the independent line, but I did vote for Donald Trump.
		I hope you're right in everything you've said.
		The insanity that we live under in this country each day has got to stop.
		It has got to stop.
		The government, something in the government, whether it's the deep state or whether it's the corporate interest, is bent on ruining this country.
		This is the only country that we have.
		We can't go anywhere.
		I turned on the TV yesterday morning.
		I see this insanity of this man.
		What is going on in this country?
		What is happening to America?
		This is a wealthy, powerful country.
		There is no reason for Americans to live this way.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Henry Olson.
unidentified		Yeah, I think the caller expressed the concern that's in part driving the realignment, which is that this is an economy that no longer works for everybody.
		This is a social culture war that's been going on that makes millions, tens of millions of Americans feel like they're strangers in their homeland.
		And increasingly, we feel unsafe, whether we feel unsafe in the New York subway system because somebody throws somebody under the bus or lights them on fire, or we feel unsafe on our streets because somebody makes a right turn onto Bourbon Street and plows them down.
		And that's the questions people want solved.
		And they don't want the base concerns solved.
		They don't want ideological concerns solved at the expense of their concerns.
		And that's what Donald Trump was elected to solve.
		And if he does that, he will bring in a Republican realignment.
		And if he doesn't, he won't.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		The editorial board of the Wall Street Journal, we have it here somewhere amid this pile of papers, makes the point today that Donald Trump has said that Syria should not be the United States' problem.
		In the wake of this terror attack, they make the point that this question of whether the United States should have bases in the Middle East as a place to keep terrorism from forming and eventually coming overseas.
		We need to rethink this and possibly have that foothold in Syria and think about this in other countries as well.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the question I will pose to the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board indirectly through you is, what size of the American military do we need in order to do that?
unidentified		America made a series of commitments during the Cold War that was undergirded by defense spending of between 6 and 12 percent, depending, you know, more in the 1950s, less in the 1980s.
		It made additional commitments during the war on terror.
		What size military do we need if we're going to have bases in Syria and a robust presence in Europe and bases and military forces in Africa to fight the terrorists there and a force that can fight Iran and in the Middle East and a force that can rise, contain China.
		What size of the military do we need?
		To say we should have these actions without specifying the ability to fulfill all of these desires is imprudent.
		And if the Journal Editorial Board wants to advocate for these things, they should be responsible and tell us what the means are necessary to fulfill the ends.
		Nobody does that.
		And what Donald Trump points out is, and many of the people he has appointed to positions, is we don't have a military that can afford bases in Syria and bases in Africa and a NATO that is like 1985 and face China's rise and have two carriers stationed in the Indian Ocean at all times so that we can strike Iran.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		We don't have that military.
unidentified		So if you want to do what the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board does, they should tell us what it's going to cost and they should have the sorts of public opinion mobilization that they employ for things like lower taxes towards defense spending increases so that the ends hit the means.
		Because right now they don't.
		And when Donald Trump says Syria is not our problem, it doesn't mean he thinks that Syria is something he should just never take a call about.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		What it means is it's not worth the expenditure of American troops and American money that are better deployed elsewhere.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		If the Wall Street Journal and their allies think differently, they should tell us what we need to fight their battles.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Fort Lauderdale, Florida, this is Melvin.
		Mine for Democrats.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		First of all, I want to start off with his opinion about Reagan being the top five.
		Everyone wants to forget that Reagan tripled the debt and the deficit in his eight years in office and also did away with a lot of expenditures that the regular homeowner was using at that time for tax purposes.
		And then we're going to get to Trump.
		He has also spent twice as much as any president in eight years has spent.
		He spent that much in four years.
		Lastly, he was talking about Obama changed his, he had to change his administration, what he was planning on doing when he came in office.
		Yes, he did, because George Bush had taken the country into the second worst financial disaster in the history of the country, and therefore businesses were going bankrupt in a lot of the other places that they would have followed with some of the information that came up in the meeting that him and John McCain had to attend before the election was even finalized.
		That's how bad the situation was.
		And he's trying to talk to, say that Obama didn't keep up with his initial promises in the election.
		No, he had to change it.
		And luckily he got in there when he did because a lot of these other programs or these companies would have been out of business.
		And he took a lot of flat from helping the financial disaster, I mean, the financial banks and the also the automobile dealership.
		So letting me answer these questions.
		I'm tired of hearing this Reagan stuff with a man triple the debt and deficit.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Mr. Olson.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		What I was trying to say with my top five was the impact they had on America, is that, you know, if a Republican called in, the Republican could say, what are you talking about with FDR?
unidentified		He changed the direction of the country.
		He increased the power of the state.
		Some people would say he threw away America.
		But no one can deny his impact.
		America was a different place.
		And that's what I was trying to say with Reagan.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		I happen to like Reagan.
unidentified		I understand that many callers, like, many people like the caller, don't like Reagan.
		But the fact that he's so agitated about it demonstrates, again, Reagan's impact.
		Nobody's agitated about Gerald Ford.
		With respect to, all due respect to a very decent man, no one, when you look at Obama, would say that Obamacare, although at the time he said health care is economic care, none of the problems that the caller was talking about, the collapse of the economy, the financial problems, and so forth, were addressed by Obamacare.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		None of them.
unidentified		That was the American Recovery Act.
		That was things like Dodd-Frank.
		That was things like the implicit or explicit bailouts through loose monetary policy of our financial institutions.
		Had Obama stuck to that, he might have gotten his realignment, but he didn't.
		And that's the point I wanted to make.
		Yes, Obama had to adopt a number of policies to help stabilize a global economy.
		But he was said by, there's an article that I quote in my Reagan book that Timothy Geithner, the Treasury Secretary, says that he's going to be judged by avoiding a second Great Depression.
		And Obama supposedly says, that's not good enough for me.
		Well, he got what he wanted, but he threw away the Democrats' chance for multi-decadal realignment in the process.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		We're going to see a state funeral next week.
		We are going to see a lion state in the Rotunda at the Capitol.
		What's Jimmy Carter's legacy?
unidentified		Jimmy Carter was a decent man who was a poor president.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		I can't say he was a poor politician because here's a man who pioneered the modern presidential campaign model, you know, before Jimmy Carter.
unidentified		You didn't start your campaign two years before the convention.
		You didn't hang out in Iowa trying to win the caucuses.
		He changed American politics.
		He got himself elected at a time in 1975, if you had had Washington Journal then.
		Only the nerdiest of nerds would have even known who Jimmy Carter was, yet he's the president a few years later.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		But the fact is, on Jimmy Carter's watch, the Soviet Union, which was then a serious power, was expanding.
unidentified		Unemployment was high.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		Inflation was growing.
unidentified		Energy prices were going through the roof.
		People had to stand.
		Nobody under the age of 50 remembers this anymore.
		But we had such a shortage of gasoline that you had to park in line for hours just to fill up your tank.
		Americans saw this was a failure.
		And I haven't even mentioned the Iran hostage crisis, which was an unbelievable humiliation of the greatest nation on earth.
		His failure set up the stage for Ronald Reagan, because Ronald Reagan then successfully answered all of those questions.
		He answered the problems and solved the problems Jimmy Carter exacerbated and helped create.
		And he's an incredibly decent man, well-intentioned, great polit, or good to great politician in some respect, but a poor president.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		By the way, on Reagan, you mentioned your book, but you didn't, you missed the opportunity to say the title.
		The Working Class Republican, always say the title.
		Ronald Reagan and the Return of the Blue Collar Conservatism.
		Henry Olson, with that book, 2017?
unidentified		Yes, 2017.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Back to Calls.
unidentified		It's available on Amazon.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Back to Calls.
		Ted in New Hampshire.
		Republican, good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		My thing on the way these presidents get elected, especially this past one when Trump and Kamala Harris was running, is all the bickering and all this tack ads on TV.
		You know, these people are setting examples for our children in high positions.
		They jam our mailboxes with all kinds of junk mail, and every five seconds on TV, they bash.
		What is the voter and the people supposed to expect from these leaders that want to run the country when they have this kind of attitude?
		It's almost, you know, you talk about in the world all the hatred.
		Well, you're seeing it right on TV.
		If they can stop this and work together and really focus on the policies and stuff, this country would be far better off because, you know, if you badger a kid enough, he's going to be awful angry at you and just not pay attention.
		And you may see that at the polls.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Henry Olson.
unidentified		Negative advertising and attacking often annoys and bothers people.
		But people do it because it's effective, particularly in a bipartisan system.
		You know, if we had a system like many European countries where you get the number of seats that you get the share of the vote and there's like six or seven parties, there's a lot less negativity there because if A attacks B, the voters who get angry might go to C.
		And that's why you see less negativity in presidential primaries until it gets to the end because you don't know where the voters you get angry are going to go.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		But this is just part of politics.
unidentified		If you go back and take a look at the most famous speech in Lincoln's career was the House Divided speech, the one that arguably set him on the course for the presidency.
		And if you read the House Divided speech, what you find is that he was accusing the current president, the past president, the prospective nominee of the Democratic Party, his opponent, Stephen Douglas, and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, of a conscious conspiracy to bring slavery to the North.
		There is nothing that anybody said in the last election on an attack at that is more negative than what Abraham Lincoln accused those people of doing in the House divided speech.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		This is part of politics.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel about ranked choice voting?
unidentified		I am not, I don't think it's a panacea.
		I don't support multi-candidate general elections that, you know, like some of ranked choice voting say we'll have a top four primary regardless of party.
		I don't favor that.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		But in party primaries, you know, we have a lot of states with runoffs where the top two go on and then you have another election.
unidentified		Ranked choice voting would get rid of the need for a runoff.
		And in the general election where you already have gone through the primary process, I would have no problem with ranked choice voting because then if people wanted to cast a second vote, you know, say, well, yeah, I'd rather have X, but I don't between Y and Z, I'll choose Z.
		I don't have a problem with that.
		But it's not going to solve the problems that ranked choice voting advocates say it will solve.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Less than 10 minutes left with Henry Olson.
		This is Linda in Massachusetts.
		Good morning.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I live in a very liberal state, Massachusetts, and I'm a retired teacher.
		I've been listening to what you're saying about past things that have happened in the country that had a big impact like the gasoline lines, Vietnam War you didn't mention, but all the things that have happened in the country over the years that I've been alive.
		But I've never seen the country as divided as we are now.
		We are losing family members, friendships, relationships due to the division in politics.
		It's not just politics any longer.
		What do you think about the chance or the possibility of perhaps becoming two different countries or three different countries at this point?
		I don't see peace being possible.
		Thank you.
		Well, that is something people talk about is if the country is too divided, maybe different halves or different parts should go their own way.
		What that would require is a general acceptance of both sides, which is to say you have going to have a red America and a blue America, or you're going to have blue Americas or red Americas.
		I think that's highly unlikely because we have a 200 and something year history of getting along.
		But I study history and the sort of battles that we have now are often solved by separation.
		Two sides go their own way.
		Or victory, one side wins, suppresses the other, which is also really hard in a democratic system.
		Some type of federalism where you have a weak central government and a strong regional government so that you can basically live on your own.
		Or, and this is what America has always done, the creation of a new idea that unifies people.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		And I think that's what Americans want.
unidentified		They want to get beyond red and blue into red, white, and blue.
unidentified		And the party leaders over the last 30 years continually fail to do that because instead of building a new coalition that answers new questions with new solutions, they keep fighting old wars with old solutions, and that just makes the battles harder.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		And that's Trump's opportunity.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		If Trump doesn't do that, then he'll have a failed first term.
unidentified		More people will be independents.
		They'll be looking for that.
		Americans are looking for that person.
		And if they can't find it in the two-party system, they will form a third party.
		But we're not there yet.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		We're not there yet.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Be it Trump or some other president down the road.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What is the new idea that you think Americans want to build on?
unidentified		What's that thing that unites?
		I think they believe in the innate human dignity of every individual.
		It comes from our Declaration of Independence, that we believe in certain truths, that all men are created equal.
		That's the first truth the Declaration starts.
		And I think what you find is that the division is over people who say, you're not treating me equally.
		You're not treating me equally if you're outsourcing my job and importing labor because you don't care about me as an American.
		You're not treating me equally if I'm a non-traditional person who doesn't want to live according to 1950s morality.
		Or on the other side, you're not treating me equally if you try and take away my children or suppress my ability to talk because I want to live that way.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		I think libertarianism then?
unidentified		No, not libertarianism.
		It is Americanism, which is Americans want a limited but active federal government.
		They want a federal government that steps in to remove barriers that they can't handle on their own.
		And then they want it to get out of the way.
		And this is the problem of both parties faces.
		One side wants it to get out of the way all the time, and the other side wants it to solve all or most of the problems.
		And Americans want what they've always wanted, a limited but effective federal government that removes barriers to them living dignified lives they can't deal with on their own.
		And then they want to get on with their life.
		When they get that, the divisions will cease to be as violent.
		They will cease to be as intense.
		And we'll go back.
		Now, there's always going to be sharp opinions in politics, but they won't be divisive in the way that today's are.
		And I think we are moving in that direction, but it may take us a while to get there.
		Got two callers that have been waiting a while for you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		First, Joseph in Florida, Republican.
		Go ahead, Joseph.
		Thanks for waiting.
unidentified		Thank you.
		I've got one question for Mr. Henney here.
		I'm 80 years old, and I lived just about all that 100 years you've been talking about prior.
		And I'm from the South.
		I was raised in the Southern Baptist Belt.
		And as I go through life, I've seen it change dramatically.
		The standards have dropped and everything else.
		But my main question is: why do the government, why does the government divide the country like it has?
		The standards, Christianity standards, and this other standard that's trying to invade our children and everything else.
		How are you going to, you said just your prior call that there was a medium in there somewhere.
		Us people, we don't see a medium in it.
		I was a Democrat for 50 years.
		I was a union, I carry a union card for 60 years.
		So I've always voted Democrat, but the standards of the Democrats have dropped so low that the Southerners, and you know that for a fact, you've checked it all out, we've changed our minds about the standards that we have to live with.
		How do you solve that problem?
		Well, that's one of the great problems that America faces is, you know, first of all, what you have to recognize is that Americans are not uniformly Christian anymore.
		That the median voter in America is a person who says they're Christian but also says they never go to services.
		Okay, that's a different country than one that says they're Christian but attends services relatively frequently, which is where we were in the 1950s.
		So a modern American morality has to reflect that.
		It doesn't mean that you need to have a world that oftentimes Christians find progressives adopting, which is we're going to disregard your beliefs and we're going to force you into public professions of faith about things that you find contrary to your religion.
		But it doesn't mean the contrary, which is we can return to the 1950s.
		We can't because the public opinion that undergirded the 1950s and the 1920s isn't there.
		I think it's interesting that the gentleman talked about being a Democrat and holding a union card, but presumably he wouldn't want to overturn the Social Security Act.
		Presumably he wouldn't want to overturn a lot of the reasons why he was a Democrat for all those years.
		And that's another thing we have to recognize is that Americans don't want the Chip Roy Barry Goldwater government.
		Ronald Reagan didn't offer them that.
		That's what my book was about.
		It explains how Reagan was an interpreter of Franklin Roosevelt, not his Goldwater-esque opponent.
		And so I think we can see if we understand that all Americans are created equal and that progressives and Christians have rights of conscience and action, and that they're not the enemy, they're just a different type of American, and we understand that the federal government has a role in protecting all of those rights, economic and social, that's where Americans are.
		That's the median ground.
		That's where Donald Trump is getting to.
		And I think that's where JD Vance is.
		And I think if they can have a successful first term, you'll start to see that more clearly by the end of the term than you can see it now.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		No, we're a little past time.
		Can we take Chris?
		He's been waiting for.
unidentified		We can do whatever you all want.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		In New Mexico, Democrat.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, Chris.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I've been absolutely appalled by the anti-immigrant rhetoric on the part of Mr. Trump and people like Steve Benn and Stephen Miller.
		I was a post-war kid.
		I got a lot of information about what happened in Germany before and during World War II.
		And I see extremely close parallels between anti-immigrant, especially undocumented immigrant propaganda and what Germany was doing to the Jews.
		Is that consistent with the Judeo-Christian tradition in America?
		This kind of demonization, dehumanization, and scapegoating.
		There are many, many people who agree with the caller.
		It's one of the big dividing lines between partisan Democrats and the center of America.
		I think what we have to recognize is that over the last few years, the influx of illegal immigrants, what the gentlemen and people on the Democratic Party called undocumented immigrants, has changed public opinion.
		If you take a look at exit polls, exit polls have many years asked the question: do you favor a pathway of citizenship or deportation?
		In 2016 and 2020, it was about three to one in favor of pathway to citizenship.
		Now it's 60-40.
		When Donald Trump left office, a majority, a firm majority of Americans were opposed to his idea of building a wall.
		Now a majority favor it.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		And I think what you have to recognize is that Americans aren't anti-immigrant, but they want the laws respected and they want the number of immigrants who are admitted to this country to be done according to American interests, American decisions, and through the legal process.
		Donald Trump is saying more of that than he did when he started.
		And I think that is where he is moving towards.
unidentified		When he says, I want immigrants, but I want them legally, he favors H-1B visas.
		I think that is where he is moving towards.
		I do not see parallels between what Donald Trump is doing and what the American people want.
		And with the rampant anti-Senitism and murderous intention of the Nazis, I think that is a gross inaccuracy and a calumny against Trump and against people who sincerely want to protect American interests and America's nationality and national ports.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Henry Olson is a senior fellow with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		His podcast, if you want to take a listen beyond the polls available wherever you get your podcasts, always appreciate the time.
henry olsen ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for having me.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		About 25 minutes left in our program.
		In that time, we'll be taking your calls.
		It's open forum.
		Any public policy issue, any political issue that you want to talk about, the phone lines are yours to do so.
		We'll put the numbers on the screen.
		Go ahead and start calling in, and we'll get to those calls right after the break.
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		Washington Journal continues.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Here's where we are on the Washington Journal this morning.
		About 25 minutes left here for open forum.
		Any public policy, any political issue that you want to talk about.
		Now's your time to call in.
		A note that today at noon on C-SPAN 2, there'll be a brief Senate pro forma session.
		There will be, that will be one of the final ones of the 118th Congress.
		The House and Senate will come in tomorrow just before noon to officially end the 118th Congress.
		And then at noon Eastern time in the House and Senate, it's the start of the 119th Congress.
		We'll be with you all morning long tomorrow on the Washington Journal leading up to the beginning of the 119th Congress.
		We'll be taking your phone calls.
		We'll be talking about the new Congress, the issues, the road ahead.
		Hope you join us tomorrow morning for that.
		But still, sometime this morning for you to call in for any public policy, any political issue that you want.
		Ben's up first out of Connecticut and Independent.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning and happy new year to all.
		My question was the people voting for Trump were wearing these hats called Make America Great Again.
		In my opinion, American has been great all the time.
		What they should replace it with is Make Americans Great Again.
		It's the 49.9% of the people who voted for Donald Trump, who is obviously we all know his resume.
		And he's the one who has now managed to get us from a democracy to a khaki stroke called khaki dostrophy.
		Basically, we are now in a situation where we're no longer democratic.
		We're being dictated by the richest of the world and all the millionaires and cillionaires who are in his cabinet.
		Thank you.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Ben.
		This is Steve out of Illinois, Sheridan, Illinois.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, John.
unidentified		Happy New Year.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Same to you.
unidentified		It's always good to see you, bud.
		I would think that yesterday's terrorist attack might have been prevented had the police put a vehicle on that sidewalk instead of leaving a space for that truck to do what it did.
		It's just deplorable that they didn't have better security there.
		And I know everybody's saying it's a terrorist attack.
		The police said it's pure evil.
		And I'd like to just state a Bible passage, Isaiah 45, 7.
		I form the light and create darkness.
		I make peace and create evil.
		I, the Lord, do all these things.
		So if you're wondering how this happened, God made it happen.
		Have a great day.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Steve in Illinois.
		A story in the Washington Post today on how that truck got onto Bourbon Street.
		A key piece of the protective infrastructure that was on that street was undergoing repairs in New Orleans when that driver slammed into the crowd of New Year's revelers in the city's famous French quarter.
		New Orleans began to install new vehicle bollards around its most famous streets and hotspots ahead of the Super Bowl in February, according to the mayor.
		And the short, sturdy posts made of metal concrete and wood often lie in the perimeters of public plazas and spaces or the entry points of famous streets.
		They're meant to block vehicles from accessing those buildings.
		Terrorism experts say bollards are among the most reliable means of preventing assailants from using vehicles to run down members of the public.
		A story on that aspect of this attack from today's Washington Post.
		This is Dan in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, Independent.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, John.
		Thank you for taking my call.
		In my opinion, until we get rid of Citizens United, we overturn that because unlimited money into politics is going to keep up the biggest war, which is the war on poverty or a war against poverty, so that they can promote corporate welfare.
		It's like socialism is okay in our country for corporations, but they don't want any handouts for people.
		And as long as money's in there, they're going to control the strings of what's going on, and our politicians are always for sale.
		So I just wanted to say that, and I thank you, and have a great day.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Dan in Ohio.
		This is Greg in California, Republican.
		Go ahead.
		Open for him.
unidentified		Yeah, I just, I wanted to ask your guest there.
		He said that he doesn't see any similarities between Hitler and Trump.
		And I was just wondering how he would respond to his propaganda and statements such as that people are eating cats with being, that that's not a truth, and making statements about gold star families having their wives having to walk behind them and other statements like that he could,
		that he could shoot somebody on Fifth Street in New York and he wouldn't lose one vote, or how he would respond to that.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Greg in California, our guest, Henry Olson, no longer with us this morning.
		He'll probably be back down the road though, if you want to call in the next time he's on.
		This is Robert in Ohio, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Morning.
		I got my comment about Mr. Olton himself.
		He's talking about everybody's being treated equally in this country.
		I don't see how he can sit there with a straight face and say, is everybody been treated equally in this country?
		This country has had a history of discrimination ever since the first black man put his foot on this continent.
		That's all I have to say.
		Have a good day and God bless America.
		Jordan in New York, Independent.
		Good morning.
		Good morning.
		Thank you for taking my call.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's on your mind, Jordan?
unidentified		My question is: with the recent attacks in New Orleans, there were reports, I'm sorry, the senator was talking to the media and was talking about holding the FBI accountable.
		Do you think that was a smart idea to talk about this early on in the process?
		Because in response to that, multiple news anchors were talking about a possible division caused from calling out the federal government instead of unifying.
		Do you think it was a good idea, Jordan?
		I think it was a strong idea because it's important to hold them accountable because he mentioned past incidents in which the public opinion showed they were less accountable.
		So I think it was strong to hold them accountable early to show his point of view and how he's supporting the citizens.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Jordan in New York.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		This was Senator John Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana, yesterday at one of those press conferences in the wake of that terror attack in New Orleans.
unidentified		Here's what I want to ask from the federal government: catch these people.
		Catch these people and then tell the American people the truth.
		Now, I don't want you to tell us yet anything that's going to interfere with your investigation.
		And there's things that I've been told that I think are true that I'm not sharing with you today because it could interfere with your investigation.
		But after we get to the bottom of this, they need to tell the American people the truth.
		And the people of New Orleans the truth.
		And the people of America the truth.
		I think the mayor and the governor are very wise to postpone this ballgame for 24 hours.
		There's just too much stuff we don't know.
		And it's just not worth it.
		But I guess my final point is: I will promise you this: I will, when it is appropriate and this investigation is complete, you will find out what happened and who was responsible.
		Or I will raise fresh hell.
		And I will chase those in the federal government who are responsible for telling us what happened like they stole Christmas.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Senator John Kennedy, yesterday, that's the front page that folks in New Orleans are waking up to this morning.
		The Times Picayune act of terrorism is the banner headline: truck slams in a crowd, killing 15, injuring dozens.
		Driver shot and killed by police.
		FBI says explosive devices found at the New Orleans scene.
		This is Mary in Virginia, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Happy New Year to everyone.
		Live like it, love like it, and keep grace in your living.
		And most of all, keep peace.
		All of us, God loves us all.
		It's not according to the grace of the color.
		God loves us all.
		Amen.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Mary.
		This is Maynard in Louisiana.
		Good morning.
		You're next.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, I would like to just make three points about the next administration or the next people going to be in charge of our citizens.
		Number one, make education our top priority.
		An educated citizenry is very hard to deal with if you're a person in power and like to manipulate the system.
		Number two, a flat tax system.
		Flat tax remove all of the tax loopholes that corporations and rich individuals, powerful people use to their advantages.
		And number three, term limit.
		Mr. Trump mentioned term limit back in 2016, but that's the last time I heard of it.
		Term limit would be very, very powerful thing to push, and I think the American people would go for it.
		And one last final thing is push the points about no one above the law.
		No matter what your position is, no matter how much money you have, no one in this country should be above the law.
		And those are the three points, four points that I like to make.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate it.
		On term limits.
		On term limits.
		Term limits for who?
		Members of Congress, Supreme Court justices, both?
unidentified		Congress, U.S. Senate, and we got it on the president.
		We got a lot of it on our governors and our senators, state senators.
		Why can't it be for the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate?
		Why should those guys get in there and go in with several hundred thousand in their bank account?
		20 years later, they come out of there with $200,000 or $300 million in their bank account.
		There's something wrong with the system.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's a fair term limit for a member of Congress, Maynard?
unidentified		I would say two terms, no more than three would be plenty.
		Very sufficient.
		If you're going to do something, that's passionate about serving your community and your people.
		No more than three terms ought to be plenty.
		Then give someone else a chance to go in and serve.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Three terms in the Senate, Maynard, is 18 years.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Is that too long?
unidentified		No, I don't think so.
		I mean, if we make it short, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 18 years wouldn't be too long.
		That's plenty of time to get your programs in place and push what you think you're passionate that you're strongly about and push those issues through.
		And 18 years is plenty of time.
		And then you can come out and do your own job, work for a living like the rest of us, and abide by those same laws that you push and pass by.
		We can go a little further and talk about investment on the senators and representatives' part.
		Limit those things that their friends and families can have influence with.
		We need to limit that kind of action as well because right now the U.S. government is geared toward making individuals very, very wealthy, and the masses will be being taken advantage of.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Maynard, Louisiana.
		This is Richard in Brooklyn, Independent.
		Good morning.
		Go ahead.
unidentified		Well, good morning, thank you for taking my call.
		I would like the American people to get their heads out the sand because for the life of me, I cannot comprehend why it is that we keep calling this a democracy.
		This is not a democracy.
		This is a republic for the people and by the people.
		So just by virtue of people constantly using the term democracy, that tells me, you know, you're an enemy to your country right there because this is supposed to be a republic for the people and by the people.
		And the second thing I want to address is this Doge thing with Elon Musk and Vivac.
		Is that going to allow these individuals to operate outside the Constitution, which the president takes a sworn oath to uphold that Constitution?
		And it seems like in this country, they are no longer respecting that.
		And I think the American people need to pay close attention to what's happening because these people that's advocating democracy, these people are actually open enemies of this country because this is supposed to be a republic.
		Biden said it, and other presidents have said it as well.
		So why do we keep calling this a democracy?
		And I understand.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Richard, how do you define a democracy?
unidentified		Democracy is controlled by the wealthy, the aristocracy.
		And I also want to add that I understand that they have a doge of digital coin that they're supposed to be rolling out.
		The elected officials are not informing the people that they're supposed to be rolling out a digital currency that's connected with blockchain that's going to be monitoring the masses of the people in all the transactions that you're doing.
		And I think people need to be aware these things.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Where did you hear that, Richard?
unidentified		Excuse me?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Where did you hear that?
unidentified		Oh, they mentioned it on one of the news programs that I was watching it, that they were going to roll out a digital currency, which is going to be attached to blockchain, which is going, they're going to be monitoring everything that the American people do with this electric currency, and they could shut the currency down.
unidentified		Now, you can fact-check it for yourself.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Richard, New York.
		This is Miguel in Gambrils, Maryland.
		Republican, good morning.
unidentified		Hi, how's it going?
		Thanks for having me.
		Yeah, I guess, you know, my first point is about this guy in Louisiana with this, you know, ram in his car.
		I think this has a lot to do with multiculturalism.
		You know, it's becoming a failed trajectory for our country.
		You know, when you bring all these people together, it doesn't cause happiness and people coming together.
		It causes conflict.
		You know, you got different relationships.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		So, Miguel, what are you advocating for?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of ethnic separation in this country?
unidentified		Well, yeah, in a way.
unidentified		I think that people should be allowed to make those choices on their own.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		All right, that's Miguel.
		This is Mary Ellen, Homestead, Pennsylvania, Democrat.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, good morning.
		I think many Americans, certainly not all, but I think disproportionately Trump voters simply aren't honest or unable to admit the truth about their racism.
		The southern gentleman that called in and said he was a Democrat all his life and he's changed.
		He changed when Johnson decided that all of us had to be or more of us had to be treated equally.
		And these so-called Christians, there are reports and even postcards that show that these people would leave churches and attend lynchings.
		Trump, a man who has, what, five different children by three different women, if Obama had done that, if Obama had had 34 felonies, you know he would never have been elected president.
		And those are the kinds of things that many of us see.
		Racism is embedded in the cultural fabric of America.
		And until we realize about the indigenous genocide and the slavery and decide to treat everybody equal, until we realize we're all Americans, it's going to be pretty hard to change things.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Ed Troy, North Carolina, Republican, good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, John.
unidentified		How are you?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Doing well.
unidentified		Well, you're doing good this morning.
		The comment I've got to make is that guy in New Orleans and the one in New York last night that drive by.
		As long as we've got people like Governor Cooper, President Biden, that do not believe in the death penalty.
		Crime is never going to get no better.
		I remember my granddad, he was born in the mid-1800s.
		He saw one hanging, And that lasted him the rest of his life.
		When people are going to do this crazy stuff and not have to pay for it, they go to jail, they get to stay in jail, have better medical care, and all the stuff like that, than people like me that has worked hard all my life, and it's not going to get any better, John.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		Ed, Louisiana is a state that has the death penalty still.
		There are some states that no longer have the death penalty, but Louisiana is not one of them.
		The red states on that map, this is from the Death Penalty Information Center, are states that still have the death penalty.
unidentified		Yes, North Carolina is one that still got the death penalty.
		And you saw what Cooper did yesterday, and Biden did the same thing.
		Why should the American people have to pay for somebody, say they get incarcerated in their 20s, they lived through in their 80s?
		Why should the people of the state of North Carolina and the United States of America have to use taxpayer money to keep these people up all these years?
		I don't see nothing wrong with minor convictions of either people doing their time or get paroled.
		But when it comes to deliberate, I mean deliberate murder, and they are guilty whenever they get arrested, we should not have to keep them up the rest of their life.
		And a lady a while ago said something about us Trump Republicans.
		I am the least racist person, probably, in the United States of America.
		When I was in high school, back in the early 70s, I had the bus routes for the colored kids, both elementary and high school.
		Yes, we went through a walkout, everything else.
		I had police escorts carrying those kids home in the afternoon.
		But me, being a 72-year-old man, my best friends and a man that helped me more than my own daddy was a black man.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		What's Ed in North Carolina?
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		This is Virginia in Houston, Texas.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Yes, I was just calling to answer the question to a guy that called earlier and says, what's happening to this country?
		What's happening to this country is we have people coming over here expecting us to change our America to their needs, to what they want.
		America has one rule of law, and that is under God we trust.
		And when people are staying out of their churches and not bringing their children up to know the way that they should live, then we are always going to have trouble and confusion, hate, and everything else that goes with it.
		We have to get back to the American way.
		And if people don't want to do that, go back where you come from.
		This is America for freedom.
		And God we trust.
john mcardle ▲ ● ▼		That's Virginia in Texas, our last caller in today's Washington Journal.
		We will be back here tomorrow morning.
		It's a five-hour program tomorrow ahead of the start of the 119th Congress.
		Hope you join us then.
unidentified		In the meantime, have a great Thursday and looking ahead at our live coverage
		coming up this afternoon here on C-SPAN.
		At 2 p.m. Eastern time, President Biden will be delivering remarks from the White House on his 235th confirmed federal judicial nomination.
		And then at 5, the president will award the Presidential Citizens Medal to 20 recipients, including former Wyoming Republican Representative Liz Cheney and Mississippi Democratic Representative Benny Thompson, who led the January 6th Committee.
		You can also watch these events live on the C-SPAN Now app or online at c-span.org.
		Experience history as it unfolds with C-SPAN's live coverage this January as Republicans take control of both chambers of Congress and a new chapter begins with the swearing in of the 47th President of the United States.
		On Friday, don't miss the opening day of the 119th Congress.
		Watch the election of the House Speaker, the swearing in of new members of Congress and the Senate, and the first day of leadership for South Dakota's John Thune as the new Senate Majority Leader.
		On Monday, January 6th, live from the House chamber, witness Vice President Kamala Harris preside over the certification of the Electoral College vote, where this historic session will officially confirm Donald Trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election.
		And on January 20th, tune in for our live all-day coverage of the presidential inauguration as Donald Trump takes the oath of office, becoming the 47th President of the United States.
		Stay with C-SPAN throughout January for comprehensive, live, unfiltered coverage of the 119th Congress and the presidential inauguration, C-SPAN, Democracy Unfiltered, created by Cable.
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		Jimmy Carter has died at the age of 100.
		Here are some of the events and services that will lead up to his burial.

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