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Then, at 4 .45 p .m. Eastern, author Elizabeth Reese, with her book Marquis de Lafayette Returns, recounted the 1824 -1825 trip Lafayette took through the young United States when he returned after the Revolutionary War.
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This weekend, speeches by Franklin Roosevelt in 1933, Harry Truman's 1949 address, and Dwight Eisenhower's 1953 address.
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Good morning.
It's Sunday, December 28th, 2024.
We're days away from the end of the year and just a few weeks away from the start of a new era of Republican -run Washington.
But despite the unified control of all three branches of federal government, the country itself is anything but.
So this morning, we want to hear your thoughts on America's political divide.
What's behind it?
How serious is it?
Can it be fixed?
Our phone lines for Republicans, 202 -748 -8001.
For Democrats, 202 -748 -8000.
And for Independents, 202 -748 -8002.
If you'd like to text us, that number is 202 -748 -8003.
Please be sure to include your name and where you're writing in from.
And on social media, we're at facebook .com slash c -span and on X at c -span WJ.
Now, there are some who think that America's political divide might not be that much of a problem.
Among them, Andy Kessler, who has an op -ed in the Wall Street Journal that ran on December the 22nd, which says, in part, This country is strong precisely because we don't all think the same way.
New ideas come from new ways of thinking.
When you vote, you get some of what you want, but not everything.
Life is about compromises.
The extremes...
...of the left and right make the most noise, but we're still governed from the center.
Our political divisions today might seem like the Grand Canyon, but pre -1989 Berlin was about real and quite literal divides.
Ours are wafer -thin in comparison.
For those who don't like Donald Trump, get over it.
Stop threatening to leave.
Many didn't like the Obama years.
I cringed with every utterance of the socialist concept of equity during the Biden years.
People dealt and moved on.
It isn't in any politician's interest to heal divides, so we get the vast right -wing conspiracy and own the libs.
Division is here to stay.
The rest of us need to learn how to deal with it.
Now, on the other hand, there are many who believe that America's political divisions are a problem and should be reconciled.
Among them include Senators Warnack and Lankford.
As pointed out in this Axios article, Senators Warnack and Lankford call for unity in a polarized America.
Senators Raphael Warnack, a Democrat of Georgia, and James Lankford, Republican of Oklahoma, compared U .S. political polarization and fatigue to family dynamics in an interview with NBC's Meet.
Absolutely, and, um... I can tell you that for me, and I'm sure Senator Lankford would agree, bipartisan work is as basic as the American covenant.
E pluribus unum.
Out of many, one.
And so, you know, we have differences of opinion, but the issue is our humanity and trying to build and strengthen the American family.
That's the spirit with which I come to this work.
It's informed by my years as a pastor.
I still lead my church.
And I'm deeply honored to work with Senator Lankford and this week and in recent days we've been Trying to think about ways we can do more work together.
Senator Lankford, tell me about some of those conversations.
How do you start the conversation of how you can do more work together?
So what's interesting is I really don't think of this as bipartisan work.
This is just American work.
Most people don't think of themselves first as Republican, Democrat, Independent.
They think of them first as just human beings and neighbors and people that work and in families.
And so really what we're talking about is how do people who disagree sit down and figure it out?
We're good to go.
We're supposed to figure out how to solve problems.
And two people that disagree, or 100 people that disagree, or 435 in the House that disagree, have got to be able to sit down, be grown -ups, and say, let's talk this out.
Let's figure it out.
Do you feel like you're in a minority of people who care about figuring it out right now in Washington?
Because certainly across the country, as we're saying, relationships, conversations are fractured.
Yeah, conversations are fractured.
I don't think I'm in a minority that want to figure it out.
I think I'm in a minority that has hope we will figure it out.
I think a lot of people just lost hope this gets better, and I think that's the emotion of the country, is they want it to be fixed.
But they can't figure out how it's going to actually happen.
The latest poll I saw was over 70 % of the people in the country don't like the direction of the country.
That's not a political statement.
It's an emotional statement, like what's happening to us as Americans?
And my basic statement is, well, Americans are all made up of individual Americans.
When each person decides they're going to do a different, America decides they're going to do a different.
Senator Lankford there on Meet the Press, along with Senator Raphael Warnock, mentioning some polling about how Americans see political polarization in this country.
There's additional research from the Annenberg School of Communication with a new study showing that political polarization between Americans stays consistent before and after elections.
Finding that during that new study from the Annenberg School of Communication, researchers Neil Fass...
Thank you.
Thank you.
Let's start with Danny in Yuma, Arizona on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Danny.
Good morning.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you guys at C -SPAN and all around the country.
As I see it, this is only my opinion, which I think is pretty good.
I used to be an independent prior to the 2016 election until I saw with my two eyes what these Democrats are all about.
These are not the Democrats of... JFK, these are not the Democrats of your grandparents' generation.
And what they are doing to these cities with the lawlessness that's going on, which was so recently done,
was where that illegal alien burned that poor lady to death on the subway in New York City.
Now that's just one
So Danny, what do you think might help deal with political polarization in the country, or do you think it's an issue?
Well, right now, I think it's an issue because nobody listens to each other.
Like I said, these Democrats right now, of the AOCs and all these other ones, they're all these...
Oh, what's the word I'm looking for?
I can't think of it.
But anyways, they've got their own agenda going on, and they want to change this country.
They don't like America.
They want to change it into Venezuela, and this and that.
And I think that politicians have to sit down and not talk at each other, but listen to each other.
Okay.
Paul is calling from England in the United Kingdom on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Paul.
Morning, morning.
I think we're going in politics.
They're not the best country, I think, in Britain.
They don't listen to each other.
Looks like we lost Paul.
Let's go with Tom in Mauritius, New York on our line for independence.
Good morning, Tom.
Good morning.
Thank you very much.
I'd like to just say that the law breaking in this country is just beyond belief.
And it was all created by the Democrats.
Donald Trump had the border secured and they just went and just completely crushed it.
They're selling our border wall for five cents on the dollar.
It's a joke.
My company was put out of business by illegal immigration and the people that don't pay taxes.
How does this country function without everybody playing by the rules?
I don't understand.
It's just not right.
It's not fair.
And the Democrats created it.
And I think they should be.
I think they should just be disqualified from being in politics.
The Democrats are just, they're real dirty.
What they did to Donald Trump for the last nine years, lying.
Russia, Russia, Russia.
Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine.
And then you find out Joe Biden and his kid have just been robbing this country left and right.
And the Democrats all stick up for him.
And they conceal his corruptness.
So Tom, what you're describing sounds a lot like some of the feelings around political polarization in this country.
Do you see any solutions to sort of bridging that divide, or do you think the divide should be bridged?
I think we need to have the rule of law back in this country.
Everybody needs to abide by the rule of law.
If we can't agree on that, we'll not agree on anything.
Because people just can't keep breaking the law and getting away with it while we pay the taxes and we pay their bills.
We're paying for people to come into our country, break the law, they're murdering people, and no one seems to care.
And I do.
I'm tired of it.
I'm very tired of it.
I'm glad Donald Trump won, and I hope he takes care of the illegal immigration problem.
That will go a long way to solving the problems in America.
Thank you very much.
James is in Sebring, Florida on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, James.
Happy New Year.
Thank you.
So James, several previous callers have brought up illegal immigration as one of the issues leading to political polarization in this country.
Do you think that's one of the major causes as well?
That's part of the cause.
But most of these people, the 10 million people that went across the South border, asked for political asylum, and there's a due process by the Constitution of the United States.
Every person had the right to apply.
And I don't understand why independent Republicans So what do you think is the solution to political polarization in the country?
Okay.
Bryan is in Waco, Texas on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Bryan.
It's like the two sides are on a different planet.
I mean, this guy just said that 10 million people are eligible for asylum.
The only reason they're saying they want asylum is because they know that's the way they can get in.
I mean, this country is more divided and probably always will be since the Civil War.
You take abortion, there's no middle road on that.
You take national defense, there's no middle road on that.
And I'm a Republican.
And I have friends in other parts of the country.
I mean, I can't even communicate with them.
Not on politics anyway, but even on other subjects.
People are just divided, and it's something that this country will be for the rest of its being.
Thank you.
Brian mentioned that this is some kind of consistent state of America.
There's an essay in Bloomberg called How Political Polarization This is by Jennifer McCoy,
and it finds that...
As Americans digest the result of this was back closer to the election, this week's presidential election, and wonder about the future of their country and its politics, they must reckon with the fact that political polarization seldom simply abates with a change in leadership.
In fact, history indicates that democratic backsliding is a frequent outcome, and sustained depolarization has usually occurred after a major shock to the political system, though shocks are often violent.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Gilbert is in Ohio on our line for independence.
Good morning, Gilbert.
Hi.
So you just need to turn down the volume on your TV and then go ahead, Gilbert.
I'm going to try to come back to you when you get your line together.
Let's hear from Helen in California on our line for Democrats.
Hi.
I think something that people should be aware of is the truth.
Nobody wants to believe the truth even when it's the truth.
I'm a Democrat, and the Republicans, every time I want to talk to them about the truth or show them the proof of the truth, they don't believe it.
They won't accept the truth because it doesn't fall into their M .O., how they view the truth to be.
And part of that problem is the politicians aren't telling us the truth.
I would say more the Republican.
I mean, that's what we're doing, right?
I mean, we've made a decision.
We have...
Alright.
Thank you.
On X, D. Harry McGee says, What would unity even look like?
It's not something that ever existed.
Can anyone point to a period in which there were not opposite poles of opinion?
Going back to that Bloomberg piece looking at other periods of polarization around the world, the chart here finds that only 27 of the 105 cases that the authors looked at involved at least short -term depolarization without regime change.
We're good to go.
I think?
We're good to go.
I think?
Steve is in Webster, Massachusetts, on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Steve.
Good morning, Kimberly, and I'm wishing you a happy New Year.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I think the nature of democracy is a divide.
It's human nature in a democracy to debate, okay?
And you look at history, for example, you look at our revolution versus the French Revolution.
There's so many cases of this, okay?
And we know that the War of 1812, the Federalists did not want to go to war.
They almost seceded from the Union.
Adams was the last Federalist president.
John Locke, I think, is the basis of, well, he spoke of life, liberty, and property, which is the basis of our country of sovereignty.
You compare this to the French Revolution.
They found the philosophy We're good.
We're good to go.
I wouldn't say the root of all evil.
Trump sees China as a threat.
They do more trade with Latin America than the United States.
On the other hand, Trump values cheap labor.
We need to talk about the issues.
We also need to realize the difference between the political divide and political polarization.
Even polarization, people tend to really...
Steve, can you say more about that, what you mean about the distinction between the political divide and political polarization?
Well, polarization is merely extremes, okay?
You're going to have extremists on both sides, and you need to listen to them.
Somewhere in the federal papers, I forget which one it is, they spoke about democracy is rule of the majority, however, it is also the...
I was just quickly looking.
I believe you're referring to Federalist paper number 10.
Thank you for your call, Steve.
Steve was giving quite a bit of historical context to some of the political divisions in America.
C -SPAN spoke with retiring members of Congress from both parties about what they think it would take to make Washington work better, and here are some of their answers.
I think part of the problem with the place is that it's a reflection of what's happening in our society.
If somehow we could deal with this issue of the splintering of information, the fact that people get a narrative that reinforces whatever their bias might be.
And so very often we find ourselves at odds because we have a different set of facts that are the foundation of the conversation.
That has to change somehow.
And this place ought to be one of the places where we can at least agree on a common set of facts.
We're supposed to be smart people that aren't.
A downhill, there's a descent into money, money, money, money in politics.
I have authored, co -sponsored every last form of campaign finance reform.
The Supreme Court certainly didn't help with Citizens United and cases before that.
But Citizens United has allowed all of this dark money.
It's a system that we would associate with banana republics.
We need to spend more time really...
I always try to lead by example and set a good example for my colleagues and people back in Delaware who follow or watch what I do.
I think the other thing is actually to have leaders who understand what leaders are all about.
A mantra, a speech I give about leadership that would fill up the rest of this interview.
But we need leaders who bring all the right qualities to the job and demonstrate that.
Leaders are humble, not haughty.
They have the heart of a servant.
They understand their job is to serve, not be served.
Leaders surround themselves with the best people they can find.
And when their team does well, the leader gives the credit to the team.
Those were some retiring members of Congress sharing their ideas for what could help ease some of the partisan acrimony in Congress.
Let's go to some of your comments from social media.
On Facebook, Ralph Hess says that one solution to political polarization in this country could be to create laws that will prevent lobbyist donors from throwing money at elected officials.
These politicians are all bought up except Trump.
Christian Clark says, "No, not as long as Trump and the MAGA movement remains entrenched in American society." This is in response to the question, "Can it be fixed?" "They just caused too much hate and division in our country.
Once their movement has been disavowed and discredited, only then can we all start to work together again as one nation." And Michael Thornton says on X, "The political divide is irrelevant.
It's the economic divide that needs to be addressed."
Hello.
Hello.
What do you think of political polarization in this country?
On Washington Journal book reviews, a real disservice to the public.
I mean, the man is extremely brilliant.
I'd love to see his book featured.
But on the topic today, even the great Barbara Jordan could not convince people to vote their particular way in today's society.
And you, coincidentally, you just showed Anna Eshoo, I believe she's from California, who just made my point for me, which I was about to say, is that political divide begins with hate.
Eliminate hate and call it out.
And Anna Eshoo mentioned the Supreme Court, which is going to be my point.
When you go out in society, who do you respect?
I mean, for me, I respect large families, especially...
Women with large families walking around in the grocery store, as an example, it is rare, expensive, and demanding.
So when you have an individual like Amy Coney Barrett with seven children who becomes a nominee for the Supreme Court, she's a mother of seven, but she's also brilliant.
She was first in her class at Notre Dame.
And immediately thereafter, Chuck Schumer comes out.
Thank you very much for the topic.
Okay.
Noah is in Tuscumbia, Alabama, on our line for independence.
Excuse me, for Democrats.
Good morning, Noah.
Good morning.
Can you hear me okay?
Yes, I can hear you just fine.
Okay, thank you.
Well, you know, most of the division, you know, like Congress, Democrats, Republicans, they...
They get this money.
It's not just from lobbyists and stuff.
I mean, it's like the Visa lady, they call her now.
Nancy Pelosi dumped her stock, you know, right before an investigation was launched.
They get heads up on everything.
They play by different rules.
And I'm not just talking about Democrats.
Republicans do it, too.
Like, they got that $17 million payoff for stuff like that.
Gates down in Florida, the Republican, with the sexual stuff, you know, comes out.
And Democrats do it, too, if they released all the settlements they got.
See, they get these things that we don't have.
And as far as illegal aliens are coming across the border...
I mean, we should have a plan like the Martha's Vineyard Deportation Act, where they only stayed on Martha's Vineyard for 24 to 48 hours.
And boy, they was out of there.
So Noah, given those things that are kind of contributing to the political polarization, what do you think should be done about it, if anything?
We're good to go.
All right, let's hear from Jerry in Richmond, Indiana, on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Jerry.
Good morning.
Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do, you had the lady from California who said the truth, that Republicans can't recognize the truth.
If Democrats would tell the truth now and then, you know, it might help things a little bit more.
You know, we've been lied to for the last four years.
No problem at the border.
Crime is down.
Joe Biden is sharp as a tack.
You try one guy for supposedly having classified documents.
The other guy, you say, is too senile, so you're not going to try him.
He's too senile, but you're going to run him again for president until the debate.
And you already know that he's too senile to be president.
So, you know, every now and then if you tell the truth, it might help.
And, you know, all they want to holler about is Trump lies, Trump lies, Trump lies.
Well, I think we've seen more lies the last four years from the Democrats than we've ever seen before.
Okay.
EJ is in Miamisburg, Ohio on our line for independence.
Good morning, EJ.
Hey, good morning.
I enjoy a spirited, philosophical debate, but...
To answer the question directly, and I want everybody to just sort of dwell on this, the fix would come with term limits.
Because every politician, the day after he's elected, what is he doing?
Okay?
He's trying to get reelected.
And this just goes on and on, and if you want to end corruption, it all comes down to the money end of it, you know.
But if you want to end the corruption, you would just set reasonable term limits.
And, you know, I've been around for a really, really long time.
And since Kennedy.
And I've seen the ups and I've seen the downs.
And I've heard the lies on both sides and recognize that I am an independent.
Fact of the matter is, if we had significant term limits, We're good to go.
I'm an old white man, but I'm so sick and tired of old white men on both sides saying everything that they are.
Term limits.
Think about it.
Thank you.
Pete is in Duxbury, Massachusetts on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Pete.
Hi there.
Yeah, hey, we've always had political divide, but obviously it's at a fever pitch right now.
And we just aren't that shiny city on a hill anymore, are we?
So, I think both parties are relatively evil.
I think the Democrats are just a little less.
But I would like my MAGA, what's left of the Republican Party, to ponder, what do you think Musk is all about?
He is an evil, self -serving person.
Do you think he cares one iota about you?
Do you think RFK does?
I mean, we already know Trump.
I don't know.
I'd like people to focus on these individuals that he is trying to bring in, not even in the political spectrum, six months ago.
His behavior is beyond reprehensible.
He may be smart, but he's a very evil guy.
And I would like people to focus on that.
Jim is in Hudson, Florida on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Jim.
Good morning.
I think one way to kind of cut down on the fear of fraud is to, on election day, have all the polling places open for 24 hours.
And if you're a local resident and you can't get there in 24 hours, then you shouldn't vote.
Now, my wife and I, we've been residents of Florida for over 12 years.
We've always gotten a ballot, mailed it back for the presidency.
And we're voting for people in Louisville that are mayors and that we should be voting for them.
But then we should be able to go to a local polling place here in Florida, show our residents that we live in Kentucky, and they give us a ballot that we can only vote for the president of the United States.
And I think that would help.
I feel if you can't go to the polls in 24 hours, if you're a local resident, then you shouldn't be able to vote.
That would cut down on all this.
I think everyone should have to go to the polls personally, get a ballot, vote, put it in the machine, and that's it.
And if you can and you live outside, you should be able to vote for the presidency.
You go to a poll here in Florida, show them your Kentucky license.
Barbara is in Oklahoma on our line for independence.
Good morning, Barbara.
Hi.
I just don't understand why people don't see what's going on now.
I mean, he put the swamp in charge.
Who do they think that Musk is?
He's the swamp.
There's nobody more swampy than him.
And all billionaires are the swamp.
And that's who's running this country right now.
Who is the he you're referring to?
President -elect Donald Trump?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
And all he teaches is hate, fear, vengeance.
So, given that perspective, Barbara, how do you think we can bridge political polarization in this country if there are a lot of people out there who might think like you do?
He didn't take his salary.
He took his salary.
He said, "They made me take it, but I gave it to charity." So Barbara, do you think there's anything to be done about political polarization in the United States?
Yes.
Get rid of people like that.
Don't suck it up to someone who's destroying your country.
He's destroying everything we have here.
Okay, so...
There have been quite a few spirited debates over political polarization and differences of political opinion here on C -SPAN over the years.
Perhaps one of the most famous when two brothers came on and had a phone call that resonated with many people.
It's written about here in the Carolina Journal.
Oh God, it's Mom.
The phone call heard around the world ten years later.
And this was ten years ago this week.
Joyce Woodhouse made a phone call that was heard around the world.
And this was when two brothers, Brad and Dallas Woodhouse, were on political strategists on opposite sides of the political spectrum, were on C -SPAN, but they also joined us this past week,
this week.
A minute ago you mentioned your mother.
It was about this exact time when you were appearing on this program in the last hour of the Washington Journal, ten years ago that your mother called into this program.
Joyce Woodhouse is her name and this is that moment from ten years ago.
Is this really your mother?
Yeah, we were not together this Thanksgiving.
We are most years.
I would really like a peaceful Christmas, and I love you both.
December 16th, 2014, Dallas Woodhouse.
You mentioned your mom.
How is she doing?
I mean, she's still sharp as a tack.
She doesn't quite get along as, you know, as good as she did, but neither do Brad and I.
And I'll notice that on that clip, She said she loves us both.
She didn't say she loves us both equally.
Just for the record.
We know that the glorious Brad comes from a town you've never seen anything like it.
One thing I want to say about that clip that's interesting is I always remember it is it did not sound to me at the time like it does when you play the clip.
In other words, Steve Scully says Interrupted like an animal.
So, so shocked.
So Dallas Woodhouse, who was just speaking there, wrote about this for the Carolina Journal, and among the things he said, "Brad and I used our fleeting fame to encourage people to discuss politics in a measured and respectful way with their families.
We believed, and continue to believe, you can have sharp disagreements without believing the other side is evil.
Yes, you can disagree without being disagreeable.
Brad and I have strived for that.
We have succeeded more than we have failed." Back to your calls.
John is in Oneida, New York, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, John.
So what
do you think should be done about political polarization, John?
Okay, so let's hear now from Rebecca on our line for Republicans from Fort Smith, Arkansas.
Good morning, Rebecca.
Well, no.
Let's see, three times more Republicans than there are Democrats.
That election proved that.
Joe Biden is going to go down as the biggest lying president in modern history.
That's already been talked about.
He's lied about everything for four years, and the Democrats have listened to this garbage, and everything's the Republicans' fault.
That is such garbage.
Y 'all have a good day.
Sean is in Florida on our line for independence.
Good morning, Sean.
Would be in 1850s, 1860s during the Civil War.
I don't see any way.
I'm open to discussions, but to be quite frank, I have friends of mine here and loved ones who are on the opposite end politically, and we don't discuss these points because as much as we love each other, as much as we respect each other,
we don't think that love and respect would last through the discussion.
Anyway, thank you for taking my call and have a good morning.
Independent Senator Kristen Sinema, in her farewell address last week, spoke about political division and cautioned against the risks it poses to our country.
You know, we've worked together and cleared the way for historic settlements, land transfer deals, water deals, economic certainty, all by listening to one another.
Not to debate or to rebut, but to understand.
It's this very marketplace of the diversity of ideas that makes our country great.
The knowledge that with dialogue and competition, we are driven to be more thoughtful and more creative.
And that is why, despite the challenges facing our country, I remain hopeful.
America is still the freest, most creative and innovative place in the world.
We are the birthplace of emerging technologies in medicine, artificial intelligence, energy, robotics, all revolutionizing our global economy.
And the opportunities created by American ingenuity are limitless.
And we must not let our politics hold us back.
For America is still the shining city on the hill.
And it is up to each of us to protect it and to strengthen it.
We cannot afford To let political differences stand in the way of what tomorrow may bring.
We must hold firm to those guardrails, our shared commitment to the principles that our forefathers built this great country upon and the ability and the willingness to see the decency in each other, our fellow citizens.
We must choose the better angels of our nature.
Back to your calls on the political divide in this country and whether it can be fixed.
Ted is in Ocean View, Hawaii, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Ted.
Good evening.
I'm sorry, it's still evening.
Yes, good evening.
Apologies.
Middle of the Pacific and all.
You know, I've been listening to a lot of these people, and I think the most important thing is that people vote.
So many millions of people that just don't vote, and I've talked to a lot of them myself, and I go, my goodness, we need to make our voices heard and vote.
There's going to be divide, and I don't think we can really get away from that.
You could talk about it for 50 years, but if you vote, and the votes are counted and tallied, and the winner wins.
And being a Democrat, I'm not feeling all that great right now because I know a lot of people didn't vote.
And if those people would have voted, we would not have the president we have to, well, next month.
And I think that's really important that people need to activate their emotions and get out there and really vote.
It's going to make the difference.
Trying to change the divide.
I've watched it and I've watched it tear apart families and I think people need to vote.
I've never missed a vote since 1972 when I was in the Vietnam War and Richard Nixon was up for president and that was my first chance to vote and I've always voted and I think everybody needs to do that to keep our country going and that's most important is make your voice heard.
Vote.
Don't argue.
Vote.
Okay?
Angela is in California on our line for independence.
Good morning, Angela.
Good morning.
How you doing?
I want to say that I feel the question political divide in the United States.
This country started as Republican when you talk about your forefathers, and then it split into Democrat.
What is the political divide?
This is one country, 51 states.
If we don't address What the divide is, and like the man said, we're going to end up in civil war, but civil war was to free the slaves.
What is this next civil war going to be about?
What should we politically write it on?
Congress needs to sit down and hold a closed -door meeting and get it together.
You have all these races coming in, and races, when y 'all say races, I go, what?
There's only one race, there's a human race.
It's ethnicity that's the issue in this country.
You keep going about the immigrants, but you haven't dealt with the black slaves.
I'm an immigrant of a black slave born in Louisiana on a plantation.
You haven't dealt with that yet.
And to me, that's what your political divide is about.
You give the Asian refriations, they bomb Pearl Harbor.
You let the Chinese in here, and they're talking about bombers, too.
Lee is in Alexandria, Virginia on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Lee.
Good morning.
I think that everyone has blind spots and when you interact with people who are different from you, often you can learn something and remember that peace begins with you.
I think we all have different strengths and weaknesses, and often the loudest voices in the room are not necessarily the smartest or the ones with the best ideas.
I happen to be kind of a shy person, and you know, if someone is bullying me, I'm just going to walk away.
I am reminded of the song "City on the Hill" by Casting Crowns in 2011.
If you look at the lyrics of that, it really talks about how people can learn from other people who are different from them.
And it starts off, did you hear the city on the hill said one old man to the other?
It once shined bright and it would be shining still, but they all started turning on each other.
I think that's where we are.
And, you know, this was in 2011, so this is an old story.
And we need to be patient.
Listen to other people and learn from each other.
All right.
Curvin is in Nogadoches, Texas, on our line for independence.
Good morning, Curvin.
Good morning.
I always start off, I love everybody.
I love my Lord Jesus Christ.
And I believe the problem is there's not enough people that say they love Christ, love Christ.
Our Constitution is really the Bible.
Even though unjust man wrote it, because it addressed everybody as equal.
That's what my Lord died for us, all of us to be equal.
There's no Democrat, Republican, or Independent in heaven.
It's only Christ -like.
And my Lord said if enough people will repent, turn away from their ways, then He'll restore this land.
And the problem from that is man don't want to seek God.
They want to have a man to be their king or their savior or whatnot.
And the Bible speaks bad about that.
Man puts faith in man.
So I don't care if you're Democrat, Republican, whatnot, because if you do something wrong on one end, it amazes me how if you're a Republican or a Democrat and you do the exact same thing, it's evil,
only it's another party.
And then people vote against their own interests just to save their party.
It's amazing.
My lawyers say always be aware of all things.
Keep your eyes open.
Be awake.
What they teach you today, being woke is bad.
And then...
Well, Kirvan, we're going to be discussing the concept of wokeness, actually, in our next segment.
So stay tuned for that.
Let's hear from John in Santa Paula, California, on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, John.
Good morning, Kimberly.
Thanks for taking my call.
I'd like to say that one way to solve the political divides is to solve the problems.
We've had four years where the border has been a festering problem not being solved.
And everybody's fighting over it.
If somebody can just step in and just completely solve that problem.
So you have a decisive person like Trump.
And I think the more problems he solves, the more we put him behind us, the closer we're all going to get.
Like he says, success will solve a lot of things.
So one more thing I wanted to say.
You know, I'm really excited about the cabinet as being one of the solutions.
A lot of these cabinet members are Gen Xers.
The young people are going to start getting more involved.
I think that's a very good solution.
So I think all in all that Trump is up to solve problems and I think that will help fix the political divides because there won't be any issues to argue.
They'll be done.
And I think we can move into the future with some new ideas.
And I think that it's like Bob Dylan says, the times are changing.
You don't criticize what you don't understand.
So all in all, I'm pretty optimistic that once Trump gets in there and he's decisive and makes good, strong moves, that a lot of these political divides will be reconciled.
I think solve the issues of crime, the border.
So a lot of things.
So I'm hopeful.
Jean is in Detroit on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Jean.
Good morning.
I wanted to say that for me, one of the ways to begin to solve things, because I feel like so many problems are caused by the love and pursuit of money and power.
You know, I grew up when all businesses were closed on Sunday.
So we had a lot of family values, and I think that we need, especially professing to be a Christian nation, honors Sunday as the Sabbath day,
that we need to restore the Sabbath so all of us can be off the same day and have family connections.
And if we so desire to go to church, but if we don't, we still have the same day of rest.
and can interact with one another and just one thing too for me a lot of this rancor and dissension began with in my lifetime anyway with newt gingrich out of georgia prior to that the representatives and senators when they were elected they would move their families to washington I'm going to have to stop you there because we're about out of time for this segment.
Thank you to everyone who called in to share your perspectives on the political divide in the U .S.
Coming next, we're going to continue with this week's Holiday Authors series on Washington Journal.
We're in the midst of eight days of conversations with America's top writers from across the political spectrum on a variety of public policy and political topics.
And so after the break, we'll be joined by author Frank Buckley.
American History TV,
exploring the people and events that tell the American story.
This weekend, author Stephen Puglio, with his book, The Great Abolitionist, discusses the career and life of abolitionist and politician Charles Sumner,
who represented Massachusetts in the U .S. Senate from 1851 until his death in 1874.
Then, author Elizabeth Reese, with her book Marquis de Lafayette Returns, recounted the 1824 -1825 trip Lafayette took through the young United States when he returned after the Revolutionary War.
And lead up to Inauguration Day, American History TV looks back at famous inaugural speeches.
This weekend, speeches by Franklin Roosevelt in 1933.
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Our marathon continues on Monday with Tulsi Gabbard, and then on Tuesday we'll hear from Dr. Mehmet Oz and Mr. Trump's nominee for FBI Director, Kash Patel.
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Welcome back.
We're joined now by Frank Buckley, who is the author of The Roots of Liberalism, What Faithful Knights and the Little Match Girl Taught Us About Civic Virtue, as part of our Holiday Author Series.
Welcome to Washington Journal.
Thank you for having me.
So, the main title of your book, The Roots of Liberalism, can you define liberalism in your book's context?
Well, that's the whole point.
I don't think I can.
I mean, look, I'm an academic, and I get really tired of theories.
So I started to look at liberalism, because that's kind of the American tradition.
And what I discovered first of all was that, you know, definitions, theories weren't going to cut it.
But what I had to do instead was look at stories in our culture, people in our culture, and that told me what I was looking for.
So it was a matter of instinctively reacting to things that we regard in our culture as noble, as uplifting, as liberal, in short.
So then let's talk about the subtitle.
Who were the faithful knights and why the little match girl?
Well, yeah, the point is, you know, those stories take you to weird places.
So one of them was like knights in shining armor, okay?
And I'll tell you a little story.
After the first Gulf War, Colin Powell was called to testify before Congress.
And he was told, he was asked, why didn't you go to Baghdad?
Because we didn't the first time, right?
And what Powell said was, well, at that point, the entire Iraqi army was destroyed.
There was nothing left.
The way to Baghdad was open.
We could have gone there.
I mean, it was just a highway of death.
But he said, in the circumstances, doing that would have been unchivalrous and un -American.
And so I thought, there's a tradition of chivalry that's built into the US military and, you know, British military, you know, modern militaries.
And that goes all the way back.
It goes back to, for example, The story I looked at was the Black Knight.
So this is like 1370.
And he's led an English raid in France.
And he's surrounded by the French army.
He's got a small force.
And he defeats them all.
And he captures the French king and all the French nobles.
And at night, the captives are served dinner by the Black Prince, the son of Edward I.
And that's a proto version of the Geneva Convention.
We have an excerpt here from your book.
Can you just read this little portion about it, which gets to this idea of chivalry?
On the first one?
Okay.
Liberalism is not an abstract theory, but a tradition of virtues and customs embedded in our culture.
We learned magnanimity from the code of chivalry, and we're taught that brutishness is liberal from the code of the gentleman.
Through the stories of Hans Christian Andersen and the novels of Charles Dickens, kindness became a liberal virtue.
So that was my idea.
It's not a grand theory.
I mean, virtues are not something you define as a theory.
But liberalism, that which is roughly noble in our culture, is found not in theories, but in All those stories and people in our culture.
And you know, your prior program was on kind of curing the political wounds in our society and I thought what better way would there be to do that than for all of us to recognize that we're all part of that tradition right, and that civilizes us and teaches us how to behave to people on the other side?
You describe in your book the confusion surrounding the real meaning of liberalism.
What do you mean by that?
Well, it's a term which is hijacked by partisans left and right, and I was looking for a kind of liberalism that's neither left nor right, but that embraces both.
I'm going, you know, look, so I've got a few years on me, more than you.
I go back to Koonskin caps and hula hoops in the Eisenhower era and I'm remembering a time when everybody was a liberal and we disagreed about certain things but they were technical things and reasonable people were permitted to differ but on basic questions right there was no disagreement and that it seemed to me had been missing in recent years so when I wrote the book I wrote it Kind of against the grain,
I wrote it at a time when a lot of people seemed to be giving up on the idea of liberalism, both right and left.
And that, I thought, was dangerous.
And I thought the way to cure, to heal our political wounds would be for us to recognize that which we have in common, which is our liberal tradition.
Now, sometimes you hear and you mention that the term has been a bit hijacked by partisans.
What would you use to distinguish liberalism from progressivism from another term that's very popular, wokeism?
Well, you know, I don't like to get hung up on terms, in part because I think it's kind of boring to start dumping on people, but it's a lot of that going on, you know.
We don't need more of that, right?
So uh yeah, i'm in favor of progress and i'm in favor of a whole bunch of things that uh, you know uh, diversity and so on.
I don't see anything particularly wrong with that.
Um, everything taken to the extreme becomes positively evil.
So we don't want to do that.
But with the spirit of moderation, we could probably all agree on most things.
So I'm not going to get hung up on labels particularly except that when I got started this I realized wait a minute these guys are not liberal.
And let's try to get back to that.
Who is these guys?
These guys.
You're pressing me.
Sorry.
That's your job.
Well there is an intolerance strain particularly in recent years I thought on the left.
And people who were self -satisfied, smug, censorious, and all of that, all of these things they used to accuse the right of being.
And they had become that themselves.
So let's get away from that.
As for people on the right who wanted to give up on liberalism, you know, maybe they should realize that if they're objecting to the censoriousness on the left,
They're asserting the primacy of liberal values.
They're saying, you guys are a liberal.
Well, okay, that means you like liberalism.
In fact, in America, there's just a liberal tradition.
There's not a conservative tradition.
There's a liberal tradition.
It goes back to the founders.
It goes back to the Declaration of Independence.
It goes back to speeches by Abraham Lincoln.
That's what unites us.
Indeed, that's what makes us Americans.
To the extent you don't believe in that, you're less than American.
Would you mind reading that next excerpt from your book?
Okay, you're putting me to work.
I am.
Liberalism rests on a foundation of civic virtue and the desire of citizens or public officials to promote the common good.
The antonym of civic virtue is public corruption.
It's not corrupt to favor a subset of society where it's just to do so, for example, to alleviate poverty or to correct a historical wrong.
But that apart, the voter or official who unjustly favors a part only of society is corrupt and reveals himself to be a liberal.
He is in the public realm like the faithless employee in the private realm who steals from his employer.
I guess I'm making a point about something that's special about liberalism and that's the idea of a universal ethic, right?
So, the alternative to that is tribalism.
The alternative is only my tribe counts, or only my gender counts, whatever.
And that's not even a moral theory, right?
To count as a moral theory, it seems to me you have to say something like everybody counts as one, nobody counts as more than one.
So, in taking a look at the common good, I think we have to pay particular attention to people who are left behind.
Let's place your book into the context of the presidential election.
Your views on President -elect Trump and his promise to make America great again and the context of this discussion around liberalism.
I don't think there's anything particularly liberal about the desire to make a country great.
In fact, that can be the source of illiberalism.
Historically, it has been.
It's a sort of thing which propels a Napoleon to invade all of Europe and all of that.
But there's another side to liberalism and our liberal tradition.
Historically our tradition of equality in the Declaration, which is liberal, and the idea there is that if you're liberal, you should be feeling a sense of brotherhood,
at least to everybody else in your society and your nation.
So there's a kind of liberal nationalism Where you look at people who are left behind and you say, now this has got to be fixed.
So, you know, if you see someone who desperately needs help of one kind or another, you could say it's not just that that should happen.
We should try to fix that.
But you'll get more mileage, both politically and morally, I think, if you want to say it's not just that an American should live like that.
Let's listen to a bit of President -elect Trump's election night victory speech.
We're going to make our country better than it ever has been.
When I said that, many people have told me that God spared my life for a reason.
And that reason was to save our country and to restore America to greatness.
And now we are going to fulfill that mission together.
We're going to fulfill that mission.
The task before us will not be easy, but I will bring every ounce of energy, spirit, and fight that I have in my soul to the job that you've entrusted to me.
This is a great job.
There's no job like this.
This is the most important job in the world.
Just as I did in my first term, we had a great first term, a great, great first term.
I will govern by a simple motto.
Promises made, promises kept.
We're going to keep our promises.
Nothing will stop me from keeping my word to you, the people.
We will make America safe, strong, prosperous, powerful, and free again.
And I'm asking every citizen all across our land to join me in this noble and righteous endeavor.
That's what it is.
It's time to put the divisions of the past four years behind us.
It's time to unite.
And we're going to try.
We're going to try.
We have to try.
And it's going to happen.
Success will bring us together.
I've seen that.
I've seen that.
I saw that in the first term.
When we became more and more successful, people started coming together.
Success is going to bring us together.
And we are going to start by all putting America first.
We have to put our country first for at least a period of time.
We have to fix it.
Because together we can truly make America great again for all Americans.
Now, I'd like to contrast that speech for you with a portion of Vice President Harris's concession speech last month where she advised her supporters not to despair,
especially the folks who think that the nation is entering a dark time.
Let's listen to that and then I'd like to get your thoughts.
You have the capacity to do extraordinary good in the world.
And so to everyone who is watching, do not despair.
This is not a time to throw up our hands.
This is a time to roll up our sleeves.
This is a time to organize, to mobilize, and to stay engaged for the sake of freedom and justice and the future that we all know we can build together.
Look, many of you know I started out as a prosecutor and throughout my career I saw people at some of the worst times in their lives.
People who had suffered great harm and great pain and yet found within themselves the strength and the courage and the resolve to take the stand to take a stand.
To fight for justice.
To fight for themselves.
To fight for others.
So let their courage be our inspiration.
Let their determination be our charge.
And I'll close with this.
There's an adage and historian once called a law of history.
True of every society across the ages.
The adage is, Only when it is dark enough can you see the stars.
I know many people feel like we are entering a dark time, but for the benefit of us all, I hope that is not the case.
But here's the thing.
America, if it is, let us fill the sky with the light of a brilliant, brilliant billion of stars.
The light.
Now, I know that traditionally, especially in the political narrative that we have, people would associate what Trump was saying with conservativism and what Harris was saying with liberalism.
If we apply your framework, where do those two speeches fit?
Well, I didn't see either of them as being representative of...
You know, one thing or another, these were simply partisan politicians, period.
You know, when I went through my little rambling tour of our history, one thing that struck out was something called the investiture crisis, which is 800 years ago.
And the idea was that was a signal moment when there was a separation of church and state, right?
And I'm on the side of that separation in the sense that I want to say that it's important to have something other than politics to guide your life.
So one of our problems, it seems to me, has been the relative disappearance of religion as a way of going through life and reflecting upon your place in the world and your conduct.
Right.
Apart from politics.
So that's what you just...
Put on the screen.
Doesn't define me one way or another.
Let me say one other thing on the subject of, this is Trump now, and prosperity.
Liberalism is on the side of prosperity I think.
There is that connection historically.
I mean liberalism has meant free markets and the like.
It's meant the abolition of slavery.
It's meant the abolition of things that prevent people from bargaining with one another and getting ahead.
And there are two aspects to prosperity that are important.
The first is that when people are prosperous, they're making each other better off, and that's a good thing.
And the second thing about a prosperous society is a welfare system is the kind of a luxury good for a rich society.
If you want to have a decent welfare state, you want to have a rich society, right?
And so you have to be on the side of prosperity yourself.
That, therefore, should be something that unites us.
We are ready to take your questions for Mr. Buckley on his book and on the topic of liberalism more generally.
Our number for Republicans, 202 -748 -8001.
Democrats, 202 -748 -8000.
And Independents, 202 -748 -8002.
We're going to start with Lou in Highland Park, Illinois, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Lou.
Good morning, Mr. Buckley.
Hi, Luke.
I'm wondering if you could be totally and 100 % specific when you discuss liberalism as far as money, taxes, education, healthcare.
I think a lot of people in our country think in terms of how much we have to give one side and take from the other.
I'd like you to maybe expound on some of that.
Well, one thing you're not going to get from me, I'm sorry, is 100 % precision.
I mean, you realize that's impossible.
I think that what one tries to do is have a society which both is prosperous and which can afford the kind of social programs you're describing.
So there's a balancing that goes on here.
Veer too much on one side.
For example, there was a thought four years back, we could spend as much money as we wanted and we wouldn't have such a thing as inflation.
And right, with the benefit of history, that's been disproven.
So we work our way kind of murkily through all of these things without any kind of clearer guidance as to where we're going, but with a vague goal at the end of it all.
And we don't get better than that, I don't think.
You know our caller mentioned sort of the role of money in politics a bit and I want to direct your attention to an article in the Atlantic by Franklin Fuller about the what is referred to here as the unique danger of a Trumpist Oligarchy,
a corrupt cabal of billionaires but entangle themselves with the Trump administration and form a double -barreled threat to the American system.
I'll read a bit of that.
This was back in...
That's going to happen immediately, isn't it?
I mean, like, the day after the inauguration, it's all over.
I think the thing about pundits is what you have to realize is, number one, they tend to be totally partisan, and number two, they tend to be completely chiliastic, right?
The end of the world is happening.
So I noticed that what Four mentioned were, you know, buzzwords meant to inflame his constituents, I suppose I could call them.
Right?
I mean, you have to mention Russia somehow in all of this.
And you have to talk about dark money.
And you have to talk about the threat to democracy.
And you put it all together, and you have a kind of a word salad which is, which roughly represents pretty much everything everybody on the left has said in the last eight years or so.
And forgive me, but, you know, I'm going to just wait and see what happens.
And I'm skeptical about doomsayers.
I am sympathetic to people who talk about money and politics, although I think we should recognize when, before we start talking about the evils of dark money, for example, you know,
the Democrats vastly outspent the Republicans in the last election in terms of dark money.
So it's not the case that anybody has moral standing here to complain.
The pretension of moral standing You know, the sneer on the lips of people who tell you that they're pure and you're not.
I've kind of had enough of that.
So yeah, I'd like to see...
I'm not a fan of American campaign finance laws, but that's simply the road we've gone down.
And what has happened, I mean this is a legal question which we're not going to get into, but there's kind of a trade -off here between corruption and liberty.
Alright, and we've taken the stand in favor of liberty, and we're going to accept a certain amount of corruption.
I wish it were otherwise, but then that's just the way it is.
Alright, let's hear from Henry in Fort Gratiot, Michigan, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Henry.
Good morning.
Mr. Buckley, I think, is kind of like a little bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you look at his last name, it's Buckley, so that might tell you a little bit about him.
No, it doesn't actually tell us anything about it.
What's your question, Henry?
Okay, I digress.
I'd like to do a little simple exercise and try to distill this a little bit more, Mr. Buckley.
I'm going to mention some phrases, little words or phrases from the Constitution of the United States.
And I want you to tell me if that word or phrase comports...
You want yes or no, huh?
Does that sort of define your world?
So, Henry, can you maybe give us the direct point that you're trying to make, or a specific question?
I understand the exercise you want him to go through, but what are you trying to share?
What's your perspective here?
Henry, if I can answer you, the more perfect union was a reference to the Articles of Confederation of 1781.
Can I speak?
Can I speak?
I only get 30 days to call, and most of the time I can't even get in.
You got a guy from the UK that gets in every other day.
So I'm just trying to show the difference between liberals and quote -unquote conservatives or confederates.
Now, I consider myself a liberal.
I was raised to respect all people, to love as many people as I can possibly through religious beliefs that I have.
You have made me digress away from what I was trying to do.
All men are created equal.
Does that comport more with Democrats or Republicans?
I'd like to think both, actually, but I certainly don't disagree with the sentiment.
You'd say both.
Okay.
All right.
So we're not going to go line by line through the whole thing, Henry.
I want you to make your larger point if you have another, and then we're going to go to some other callers.
Okay, let me make this last point.
Mr. Buckley mentioned campaign finance rules, and you read that beautiful, beautiful passage from the article about oligarchs and the evils of money in politics.
Our judicial system is broken.
Our executive branch is broken and our legislative branch is broken because of money and politics, because of this coming oligarchy,
because the United States has elected a criminal who is a rich man, who has rich people behind him.
And this is not liberalism.
This is not conservatism.
This is pure evil.
I think we've got your idea.
Did you have any response?
Maybe I'm a little thick here, but it seems to me you don't like Trump.
Is that the case?
I don't know.
Look, I'm not going to get into the raw politics of it all, but it seems to me that besides Democrats and Republicans,
there's something else going on here, and that's the American voter.
And I think generally the American voter gets it right.
I mean, yeah, they've gotten it wrong on occasion, sure, but if I go through, you know, elections in the last century, mostly it turned out okay, right?
When people, you know, veer off too much in one side, there's a correction administered by the voters.
So I see the voters as the repository of liberal virtues in all of this.
They're a third party.
I'll put my faith in them.
All right.
Ryan is in Orange, Massachusetts on our line for independence.
Good morning, Ryan.
Hi.
I think your book's very interesting, but does your book differentiate between modern liberalism, like near the recent election, and liberalism as thought in like the 1930s?
Because what I've noticed is a huge change in the Democratic Party.
Now, I'm a former Democrat turned independent.
I voted for Trump in the last election.
And personally, I think that the Democratic Party should go back to the values of FDR and not the values of woke, transgender, etc.
I'd like to know your thoughts on that.
Before you give your thoughts, would you mind reading that last excerpt from your book, which I think kind of gets, yes, directly to it?
Okay.
Forget labels.
Sorry, I've been directed to read this.
The Wokorati call themselves liberals but are anything but that if there's any content to the word.
They decry prejudice but perpetuate stereotypes about white males and evangelical Christians.
They tell us that you have to become a racist to oppose racism.
They imagine themselves standing up to Joe McCarthy but practice McCarthyism when they call millions of Republicans fascists and demand that they be silenced.
They tell us that they value free speech.
Go on.
There were differences, but there were differences that made people hate each other.
I think what happened in the last election was the American voters delivered a bit of a corrective to the Democratic Party,
and my hope is that they learn and adjust accordingly, because if they don't, we may be looking at a long, long period.
Good morning.
I just want to make a statement.
Inherent in the very definition of liberalism are seeds of conflict.
The ideas of progressivism, individualism, Free market economics and Christian theology are all used in the definition of liberalism and they do not harmonize with each other.
This definition limits the possibility for the conceptualization of a clearer and more expansive and comprehensive view of what liberalism is and how it should be manifest.
The execution of the ideas expressed in the definition of liberalism cannot peacefully coexist.
Can you comment on this idea?
What is, I think, basic to liberalism is a continuing discussion about how we get to where we want to go.
Liberals may have a broad agreement about goals, but as to the means to get there, there is plenty of room for disagreement.
So I think here it's important to recognize one of the things that liberalism requires is tolerance for the other side and a willingness to learn.
And a measure of uncertainty and self -doubt about your own righteousness and your own knowledge and your own ideas.
There was this great moment in the Framers Convention in 1787.
Right at the end, Benjamin Franklin is there, and Franklin wants a constitution.
And this is the last day.
And there were some people...
We're going to opt out.
Some people are not going to sign the document.
And what Franklin says is essentially, you know, have some self -doubt about your own righteousness, about your own clarity, your own moral clarity, right?
You know, admit that you might possibly be wrong and other people might be right.
And if you do that, you'll sign the document.
I like that.
That was an element of liberalism.
All right, let's hear from David in Memphis, Tennessee, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, David.
Oh, hi.
Good morning.
And Mr. Buckley, I wanted to say I think you're muddying the waters, and that disturbs me.
I'd have to read your book to confirm it.
But my understanding is that any word that ends with ISM means it has an overemphasis.
For example, communism has an overemphasis on the collective.
Capitalism, it's an overemphasis on the exploitation of capital.
And you have some presidents in your history that I also liked.
I think, well, Truman and Kennedy were nationalists, and militarism characterized their budget plans,
but they were not isolationists.
To my knowledge, to the way I've read my history.
And so you have those terms that I do believe can be attributed to Trump and the MAGAs, isolationism, nationalism, and militarism.
And to Harris and the Democrats, I think you have progressivism and liberalism, but I think you've muddied the waters by not determining that anything that ends with ISM
Well, David, I loved everything.
I loved your beginning, but then the word but, you know, emerged.
I hate it when people do that, okay?
But you know something?
On the subject of isms, I think, you know, you're largely right, but how about the word moralism?
I mean, you got a problem with that?
I don't think so.
So it's not the ISM, but things that go before it.
Your point is, I think, however, valid.
The point is, you take anything and you push it too far and it goes off the rails.
And I think that's true.
So one of the complaints that people on the right have made about liberalism is they identify it with the idea that, you know, anything anybody does is okay.
While we're talking about "isms" you've also discussed in your book or We're good to go.
I think?
I've always looked at things a little differently, perhaps, than some.
To me, politics is not really left or right or liberal or conservative.
It's really about whose side you're on.
It's about whom you're willing to fight for, whom you're willing to stand up to.
That's what true populism is all about.
True populism lifts all people.
True populism doesn't tear others down.
True populism doesn't play to race and division.
True populism is essentially about the dignity of work, putting workers at the center of all we should be doing.
When I talk about workers, I mean all workers, whether you swipe a badge or punch a clock, whether you work for tips or whether you work on salary, whether you're going to school.
We're good to go.
We know this.
We should be challenging this.
For half a century, the stock market soared.
Executive compensation has exploded.
Corporate profits have risen dramatically.
Worker productivity has increased, but workers' wages have been comparatively flat, and costs keep going up.
Until we solve the fundamental problem in this country, until hard work is valued, until everyone has a path to the middle class, and the stability and security of a good -paying job, our work in this body, my work as a private citizen come January, That work is unfinished.
If you want to know why so many workers think the system's rigged against them, just look what happened three weeks ago in East Texas.
To little fanfare, a single judge appointed by President Trump at the behest of the Texas Chamber of Commerce struck down a Labor Department rule which guaranteed overtime for workers making $35 ,000 or $40 ,000 a year.
That ought to be a fundamental principle.
If you put in extra hours, you ought to earn extra pay.
You did the work, you earned it.
One judge, one decision, four million workers lost their overtime.
One judge, one decision, four million workers lost their overtime.
That's why we make this fight.
Well, I agree with everything that Senator Brown said, with the exception of that last bit about that judge in Texas, because I didn't follow that, frankly.
I don't know what the issues are.
But apart from that, I agreed with absolutely everything.
I only have one minor quibble about the word populism.
I don't like it because of its historical associations in this country.
With a lot of nasty people, you know, 120 years ago.
Can you elaborate just for folks who don't know?
Oh yeah, so Jim Crow laws were something associated with the populist movement back then.
So yeah, I have problems with that.
But the modern interpretation?
Oh gosh, well, I don't know what the word means apart from that.
There are plenty of terms in American politics which almost seem to be devoid of content when you look carefully at them.
That may be one of them.
Gina is in Alexandria, Virginia, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Gina.
Good morning, Kimberly and Mr. Buckley.
I was trying to learn about your book to see if I want to purchase it or not, but however...
I would just like to know, America has some kind of problem with the Muslim culture, which it surprises me that people aren't more curious because the Ottoman Empire lasted over 600 years.
I don't believe America's culture is going to get to that because they were inclusive.
They pulled in Christians, they pulled in And it seemed like the rest of the world has been watching America waiting
to pimp us out.
But once they saw us doing it to ourselves, we're just a joke now.
And it's all about money.
Once Citizens United got in there, it's workable.
Gina, your point about other historical traditions around chivalry and rules, is that what you're asking him about?
I'm asking him, does he think America...
I don't make those kinds of predictions, actually, Gina.
But, you know, on the subject of immigration, I'm an immigrant, okay?
So I came here from Canada.
I became a citizen 10 years ago.
So I'm necessarily on the side of...
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
Who are descendants, you know, flesh of the flesh of the people who fought in the revolution, you know.
But then he said, you know, there are other people here in this room who weren't, right?
And, you know, they have names like Helmut or Jean -Pierre and, you know, their ancestors weren't here in 1776.
But it doesn't matter, he said.
It doesn't matter because what makes you an American is...
What about Gina's question related to some other historical systems that had kind of No,
this was hard enough.
You want me to do more work?
No way, man.
No, I wanted to look at stories that I thought would be familiar to readers.
We didn't actually get earlier to your story of the little match girl and why that was relevant.
Yeah, let me tell that story.
It's a story by Hans Christian Andersen and it's written at a time when Europe is becoming, in his case Denmark, really wealthy.
But at the same time, you're seeing pockets of great, great poverty.
And the contrast between the great wealth and the great poverty produces something novel, which is an instinct of kindness.
It's like the invention of kindness.
And it's told by Hans Christian Andersen in this little story about a girl, penniless, who survives by selling matches.
And she's outside a restaurant, and she looks inside the window, and she sees everybody eating.
Right?
It's Christmas time.
We're having these great meals and she's starving and she's out in the cold and she lights a match to look inside and to warm herself.
And then she lights all her matches.
She freezes to death.
Right?
So, impossible I think to read that story or have that story read without being moved and recognizing A duty to take care of people who aren't doing so well in your society.
That's a part of liberalism too.
Michael is in Gainesville, Florida on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Michael.
Yes, hello.
I have two quick questions and two quick statements of fact.
What is your opinion on prosperity and trickle -down and what is your opinion on scientific racism?
And my two quick statements of fact that I think you may be missing that influences your answers to those two is, first, neither competition nor evolution optimize.
That's a scientific fact.
And also, lawyers teach, which you're in a law school, that truth is what you can convince a jury of.
I wonder, I think you're teaching how many of your students have become politicians because when they become politicians,
So Michael, before we get Mr. Buckley to respond, I just want to make sure that we understand what you mean by scientific racism?
Mr. Buckley spoke of his concerns about and he used the word censorship and he referred to wokeness.
What he's talking about is this gentleman coming and being able to speak freely and the students at those schools who pay money to attend those schools and they don't want people speaking untruths.
For example, if you want to talk about how evolution shows that white people are superior, that isn't even how evolution works.
Well, I think scientific racism is an oxymoron, right?
It's like, you know, military music, the two things don't go together.
So I agree with you to that extent.
I also am a believer in what one can get out of evolutionary theories.
I think that's important, and I don't disagree with that in any way.
As to my teaching politicians, no.
I teach people how to take security interests in personal property.
All right.
Robert is in Brooklyn, New York, on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Robert.
Good morning.
I could understand the context of what you are saying and I really love the way you use the word.
I think the problem is the manipulation of the English language.
Take for instance, Obamacare.
It's done with the personal concept of doing good.
When you have lawyers and dark money in politics, millions of people lose their job because they decide to go private with insurance.
That's one concept I'd like for you to answer for me.
The second concept is, take for instance, foreign money.
The Israeli government could kill off millions of Palestinians, and then they come over here, put on their heels, and their shoes, and their jackets, and then they say anti -Semitic, anti -Semitism.
So I'm trying to figure out, what do you think about people manipulating the English language to justify the concept of what they do?
You know, somebody who wrote Good stuff on that was George Orwell on the way in which the English language is used in such a way not to promote moral clarity but to do just the opposite, to muddy things up.
So we've talked about that in the last hour.
We've talked about how terms get thrown out and they have a lot of baggage attached to them, and sometimes a word is tossed out and they're really trying to slip in a lot of baggage that doesn't belong.
So Yeah, I agree with you.
Look, I don't want to respond about the particular political points you made.
Okay?
All right.
Donna is in Texas on our line for independence.
Good morning, Donna.
Yes.
I'm here to talk about liberalism.
And as in liberalism, when you talk about that, you talk about advocating the freedom of the individual.
And I want to talk about how, as an individual, like myself, America needs to see about people with disabilities,
people with mental health issues.
How can we really exercise liberalism, the freedoms of the people, if we're not reaching out to all of the people, black people, all races, all mental health,
all disabilities.
And also think about how So this gets at the point you were making more about the role of sort of an inclusive society in the concept of liberalism.
You don't do that.
Yes, sir.
Well, I do know the name, Buckley, way, way back.
I'm a 70 -year -old guy and everything.
I'm not sure if we're in the same family or not, but I do know that you're a professor at the Scalia School.
So just to help folks understand what you mean, Mr. Buckley is a professor at the Scalia Law School at George Mason University.
So go ahead, John.
What's your question?
That he felt that we would do better if we were, you know, in the schools that we were traditionally in years and years and years ago and everything.
And he might have been right on something with that because we gave up a lot when we integrated the schools because...
So, John, we're just about out of time for this segment.
I understand that you're talking about Justice Scalia's perspective on segregation in public schools, but did you have a question specifically for Mr. Buckley today?
Yes, I would like to know his opinion on that.
Okay.
On segregated schools, I'm McGinnis.
All right, let's go to Roland in Glen Burnie, Maryland, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Roland.
Thanks for taking my call.
I like, you know, of course, that the professor, you know, said something a little bit, because he said the conservative or the Republican religious associates, you know, they subscribe to this philosophy,
I got mine, you get yours.
You know, it's all about, you know, the whole during the election, you know, during the campaign, it was all about, you know, gas prices.
It brought me prizes, and I'm pretty sure there's not much, you know, Trump is going to do about it.
And I'm trying to understand, you know, since they always confuse, sometimes it's all about exclusion and racism with being conservative.
Because if you look at it, what exactly has, what do you call it, West Virginia brought into...
Roland, just because we're just about out of time, I want to make sure I understand your point clearly.
Are you asking Mr. Buckley about the association of conservatism with some of these things that you're talking about?
Okay, I think we have your idea.
I'm going to let Mr. Buckley respond.
Well, you know something?
Like I mentioned before, I go back a ways.
So, rather than fixate on current politics, I tend to see myself as an old -fashioned Eisenhower Republican.
You know?
Or maybe a JFK Democrat.
I don't know.
I think the point of my book was not to talk so much about where we are today, but where we came from.
All right.
Well, Frank Buckley is the author of The Roots of Liberalism, What Faithful Knights and a Little Match Girl Taught Us About Civil Virtue.
Thank you very much for your time.
Thank you for having me.
Great.
And we're going to be right back after this with some open forums.
So our phone lines are going to be on your screen, and you can call in.
We'll be ready to hear your thoughts and opinions on the political news of the day.
We'll be right back.
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Welcome back.
We're an open forum ready to take your calls on your thoughts on the news of the day or of the week.
Our line for Republicans, 202 -748 -8001.
For Democrats, 202 -748 -8000.
And for Independents, 202 -748 -8002.
Before we get to your calls, a couple of the headlines that we're following this morning.
Here, domestically, as is reported in the Washington Post, Conflict over work visas tests Trump's coalition.
Far -right activists clashed online with billionaire Elon Musk and other supporters of President -elect Donald Trump over the need for a skilled worker immigration program that has long been a lifeblood for Silicon Valley,
signifying a potential rift between Trump's core nationalist base and technology executives who have come to support him.
This fight that spilled into public view over the We're good to go.
An investor who was born in India as his senior policy advisor on artificial intelligence.
She pointed to Krishnan's previous support for removing some caps on green cards and easing the ability of skilled foreign workers to come to the United States.
The policy is in direct opposition to Trump's agenda, Loomer wrote.
The critique sparked a broader debate about immigration in the tech industry, which relies heavily on a visa program that allows foreigners with technical skills to work in the United States for up to Six years under H -1B non -immigrant status.
Moving over to international news, there's more updates on that plane crash in Kazakhstan and the fact that the United States has attributed some responsibility for that to Russia.
This is the latest from the New York Times.
Putin apologizes but stops short of taking responsibility for Kazakhstan crash.
President Vladimir Putin of Russia told the Azerbaijani leader I don't know.
President Vladimir Putin of Russia Saturday apologized for the crash of an Azerbaijan Airlines plane this past week, breaking the Kremlin's three -day silence on the accident that claimed the lives of 38 people.
He did not explicitly acknowledge Russia's responsibility for the crash.
The Kremlin said in a statement that Mr. Putin offered his apologies for the crash in a phone call to his Azerbaijani counterpart, Ilham Aliyev.
Mr. Putin told Mr. Aliyev that the tragic incident
Good morning.
This country has always had a boogeyman.
It was the blacks, the Chinese, the Mexicans.
I mean, everybody is a boogeyman.
I mean, white people have no reason to be poor.
They've been in this country and they've been running things for 300 years.
If you poor, that's your fault.
Thank you.
Vincent is in Duncan, Oklahoma, on our line for independents.
Good morning, Vincent.
Yes, I'm a 72 -year -old man.
When I was able to register to vote, I couldn't wait to vote.
But then by the 1980s or so, I quit voting because I was so tired of the politicians.
Saying one thing to get elected and then doing whatever their backers wanted them to do.
And I am not against any of Trump's nominees because I'm sick and tired of politicians.
I voted for Trump because he's a businessman, not because of anything else.
And I'm talking about the first time.
I was so sick and tired of politicians.
I actually began voting again, registered to vote and began voting again so I could vote against Hillary, not because she was a woman, because she was a politician.
And I wanted to see what a businessman can do.
And I want to see what these businessmen can do that Trump is nominating.
I don't care how much money they have or what their past is.
I just like the idea of having businessmen taking care of our country instead of these self...
Okay.
Debbie is in Virginia on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Debbie.
Good morning to you, and how are you?
Doing well, thank you.
I've been sitting back watching and listening and all that, and I think that the American people, when it comes to our government, we have taken a lot away from them through the years.
Okay.
Stephen is in Kingsford, Michigan, on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Stephen.
Hello.
I've been watching C -SPAN for, oh, I don't know how long it is, since 1980.
And I primarily watch C -SPAN 2 and seeing how this is an open forum.
C -SPAN 2 has changed their format of showing a speech or something that previous had they had or is on c -span .org while there's a roll call vote in the Senate and I mean I have a widescreen TV and I can't see and I really can't hear I like to hear what they're saying and I also like to see what they're doing when when they're what what they're
David is in Independence, Louisiana on our line for Independence.
Good morning, David.
But I just want to talk about two things real quick.
The mega -millions.
Last night, another millionaire in California won.
And it's just unbelievable that it's like no one has ever won in Louisiana.
I don't see how that's possible.
But, you know, Trump talked about no taxes on chips, no taxes on this and that.
Why don't we have no tax on a lot of winners?
Like the 51st state of Canada.
I hear that they, uh...
They have a little style and class, and they let their people keep the money.
What else can you do with it except spend it?
They're going to get it back anyway.
And I want to say, if it's mathematical odds, they tell you the odds of winning, but what would be the odds of no one winning ten times in a row?
It would seem like it would be higher.
And the next thing is concerning daylight savings.
All my life, I don't think I've ever met a person.
Keep the language clean.
Alright, well David was referring there to the Mega Millions jackpot which NBC News reported that the winning ticket for 1 .2
Hey, first off, you do a wonderful job.
I really appreciate how you've morphed into your position.
Earlier today you were talking about ways to make a difference.
I'm going to give you two suggestions.
So I'm going to give listeners two suggestions.
First suggestion is if you watch television, and a lot of people use television as to how to communicate, most television programs are geared towards talking at people and not engaging in dialogue.
And I think, you know, stop the drama and learn to talk to people, not at people.
But if you're sitting with somebody or a group and you want to figure out how you can work towards common ground, create three lists.
One federal, one state, one local.
And write down what do you see as the top roles or the top priorities for each of those branches.
And then compare notes in terms of what people's perspectives are in terms of what is the role of government.
And then don't work on what your differences are, but take those lists and try to determine where there is common ground, because what is missing is discussions.
I'm sorry, what we have are discussions on the extremes and not discussions on where we have common ground.
I'm going to hang up and listen to the rest of the program.
And again, I truly appreciate your professionalism.
Thank you for your comments Lawrence.
He was talking about ideas to help bridge the partisan divide here in Washington and C -SPAN spoke with some retiring members of Congress from both parties about what they think would actually make Washington work better.
Here are some of their answers.
I just think that there ought to be a notion of people ought to treat others the way they want to be treated.
I want When a new Congress sets up the rules, I want the old Congress to set up the rules before they know who's actually going to be in charge.
I think that there are opportunities for us to have a more humane schedule.
I would put my foot down in terms of people, and I don't know how you do this by rules, but have people who are hired just to be political flacks.
And not do actual policy work.
But part of that can come from the top, having legislative leadership in both parties taking a firmer line about performance and individual members of Congress not supporting people for leadership positions who are not providing the leadership that we think need to happen.
And it's easy for you know a geezer who's got one foot out the door to pontificate, Because I know this is hard.
And I know the politics are serious and the stakes are high, particularly in a time of Trump.
But I think there's more we could do to humanize it.
And I think there is more work that rank and file members can do to enforce norms that are More civilized.
We need to make it okay for members to have their families here with them in D .C.
Families serve together.
Families serve together.
So members of Congress get elected and it's their spouse, oftentimes, is the one staying at home and on a random Tuesday night getting yelled at at the grocery store because their spouse voted one way or another.
You had families here.
You then see the human element that is so missing from our current dialogue and debate of understanding when you're dropping your kids off at daycare and you have the courtesy of your friend telling you that your child just got sick on your shoulder,
on your suit that you just put on, they know that you're a human being.
And missing that piece of it?
Here means that we just come here, we battle, we put our armor on and we battle, and we don't know who's on the other side.
What are they concerned about?
What are they fighting for?
What's a little bit of understanding of their life that you might be connected with?
And just because they're liberals versus conservatives doesn't mean that there isn't this human element where you can actually work on something.
Something that affected your life that affected their life, or that your constituents have unified.
I think campaign finance reform would help a lot because one of the reasons why senators on Thursday afternoon tend to scatter is that senators are leaving for One of maybe two or three purposes or some combination of these.
Trying to get home, which is understandable.
I certainly like being home, if I could, on a Thursday night or a Friday night, and being home for part of the weekend.
But a lot of it is senators are leaving to raise money.
That's the reality of American politics today.
That was not the case 25, 30 years ago, and dramatically so before that.
Not the case.
We need campaign finance reform so senators and House members don't have to spend as much of their time raising money.
That adversely impacts the Senate.
Some ideas from retiring members of Congress on how to make Washington better.
Ron is in San Clemente, California on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Ron.
Yeah, good morning, Kimberly.
Thanks so much for taking the call.
A couple of things.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
It's going to be started on January 20th.
First of all, there won't be anybody to work on roofing or to do construction.
There won't be anybody to do your gardening.
There won't be any people in this country to take care of your children.
And you know what?
You're going to put 500 ,000 people in concentration camps.
Well, they're having this mastery of permutation go on and cost our country a fantastic amount of money just in repairs.
Think about North Carolina and how much it would cost to put on their roof if you had to use all white guys that came in at daylight and worked until night and worked for $125 or $150 an hour.
I mean, it's crazy.
Number two, tariffs.
We're good to go.
I think?
Thank you.
Bye.
Ron was referencing the difficulty in finding many types of workers in the event of mass deportations as President -elect Trump has said he would do.
There's a story about this in Politico to this effect.
These MAGA farmers could be ruined if Trump follows through with mass deportations.
California's farm owners bet on President -elect Donald Trump and won.
His campaign promise of mass deportations could ruin them.
California farmers could soon enjoy bumper crops thanks to President -elect Donald Trump's pledge to lift water restrictions, but who will pick them if he follows through on his deportation threats?
The country's largest agricultural constituency backed Trump in November, bucking California's deep blue electorate over his campaign promises to open the faucet and deliver more water to the state's parched, conservative -leaning Central Valley.
But now it's reckoning with an uncomfortable contradiction.
Yes.
Good morning.
Happy holidays to you.
Thank you.
And to all the C -SPAN listeners.
I just want to just cover three just really quick things this morning.
It's a couple of times a week that people call in saying that the Russian investigation was a hoax.
And none of your people ever called them on that.
Bob Mueller, longtime, lifelong Republican, came up with multiple -digit charges of things, of infractions and crimes that Trump had committed.
But it was his newly appointed Attorney General Bill Barr Who said that a sitting president, by his interpretation of the Constitution, cannot be charged with a crime.
So the Russian investigation was not a hoax.
It's just that he was not charged with a crime because Bill Barr gave us a history lesson, because he's right.
America was founded in crime.
So is it really surprising that a criminal becomes president?
America is a criminal nation.
And those people that call in about affirmative action, affirmative action never did anything to help black people.
It didn't help black farmers.
It didn't help black builders, black carpenters, black brick masons.
It didn't do anything for them.
The biggest winners of affirmative action was white women.
Under affirmative action, white women's salaries skyrocketed.
And they got huge positions that they were overlooked before.
And so if white women are the biggest winners, guess who the second biggest winners are?
The white men who marry them and date them.
Affirmative action was introduced as opposed to being able to close the wage gap, but underneath it, it exploded the other way.
So get that stuff out here about affirmative action.
When affirmative action was ended, you didn't see black folks out protesting because they know it never helped them.
And nobody plays the victim role.
Hubert is in Indiantown, Florida on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Hubert.
Good morning, Mustafa.
Thank you, Kimberly, for that correction.
And I also believe you're doing a wonderful job.
Happy New Year.
Even though you cut off a previous foundational Black American caller in the previous segment on the discussion of political divide.
So I will try and articulate her point real quickly.
So as a proud U .S. Army veteran and a proud foundational Black American whose ancestors built this country, I assert there has always been a political divide.
Stemming mostly from anti -Black racism.
So with the influx of more illegal immigrants who are even more anti -Black racist than the dominant society, the political divide will continue based on anti -Black racism.
And then lastly, if you'll allow me, excuse me, I would implore you and your listeners to please stop referring to foundational Black Americans
Gary is in Indianola, Mississippi on our line for Democrats.
Good morning Gary.
I'm a military veteran as well.
I'm trying to find out how is it that you can't be in the military and have a felony,
but you can run for president and be a felon.
That doesn't make sense.
And where do we find the space to have people like Elon Musk, who's not a Okay.
Troy is in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Troy.
It was a political thing with the prosecutions and stuff that happened.
That's why they're disappearing now, now that he is the president.
With the immigration, our country, I mean, we're at, I think, 360 million people.
You know, we can't have open borders.
So that's why he's trying to shut the border down.
With taking Panama back, he cuts the route.
So people coming from down in South America would have to come through the Panama Canal.
That's cutting them off.
And then the tariffs, when NAFTA came into play, it pushed a lot of jobs either north or south.
So what he's trying to do is he's trying to bring the jobs back.
And I was watching the segment we were talking about.
Eric is in Surprise, Arizona on our line for Independence.
Good morning, Eric.
Good morning.
I was just watching the clip that was talking about the amount of immigrants that do the farm work and just kind of had this idea it would have to be a lot of other worked out,
but it suddenly dawned on me.
We've got homeless people across America all over the streets, people in halfway drug houses.
If we start orchestrating somehow a nationwide thing, Where the government's involved and they're financing it and we put them on the farms doing all the work and it gets them on their feet and a way to work out of the homelessness or whatever it is they're in and the drugs gets them up in the morning,
gets them busy doing stuff as opposed to being on the street just asking for money and doing drugs.
So that's just a thought.
Would that program would you suggest be voluntary or non -voluntary?
It would have to be organized and it would have to be something where like I said there's a lot of details it was just an idea to start with.
I think it has a lot of room for people to figure out what you just asked.
I think if there's a government program that actually would have to round them up of course volunteer terribly but where they are going to Be taken out to the farms and then put to work.
And it's like a step up back into society.
It's better than just sitting on the street doing drugs and panhandling.
It gives them a stepping stone to, yeah.
Eric was talking about homelessness and we received new data on homelessness this week.
As reported here in the Associated Press, U .S. homelessness up 18 % as affordable housing remains out of reach for many people.
The United States saw an 18 .1 % increase in homelessness this year, a dramatic rise driven mostly by a lack of affordable housing as well as devastating natural disasters and a surge of migrants in several parts of the country.
We're good to go.
I think?
Happy New Year, Kimberly.
Thank you.
I'd like to address just a couple of things that the press seems to overlook.
Every day.
First that Mr. Musk is a guest of the United States compliments of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and I suggest as a project for him that Mr. Trump ask him to go back to his native South Africa and help them correct an economy.
Where 35 % of the adult population is unemployed.
Second, when it comes to Mr. Ramaswamy, perhaps he could don an American Peace Corps shirt, return to his ancestral home,
and help them build a reliable national electric grid.
Now, Rob, both of the gentlemen you just mentioned, Musk and Ramaswamy, are U .S. citizens.
Why do you think they should be focusing their efforts in other countries?
I do believe Musk is a US citizen, but I'll double check.
You know, in a law book.
I just want to follow up on your point about Elon Musk.
This is reported here in the Washington Post.
Because this particular article is about the student visa he had before working on an H -1B visa, which the Washington Post and others have reported that he worked in the U .S. illegally when immigration enforcement was more lax.
But he is currently a U .S. citizen.
Oh, okay.
But he started with an H -1B visa.
Mm -hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
And also that point on a presidential executive order.
Not being a law of the United States.
Okay.
Thank you.
Ray is in Tennessee on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Ray.
Yes.
One of the gentlemen before said that the Russian was not in the hopes that he was a felon.
He didn't tell you what felons that he committed.
He just said he was a felon.
That's easy to do.
You can say what you want to say, but it don't mean it's the truth.
And, look, we've just come through four years of a Democrat politician that did do nothing for 40 years,
and then we put a woman as vice president who her own state didn't want her to run for president, couldn't even get the votes for her, put them in for four years.
This country has been a mess for four years.
Now, here's...
Sarah is in New Hampshire on our line for independence.
Good morning, Sarah.
Good morning.
I'd like to remind everybody that the day before the election, our inflation was down to 2 .1%.
Gas was $2 .99 a gallon.
We had dropped 75 points on interest rates.
We have more jobs than people to fill them, according to unemployment rate.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
The executives from GT went up 50%.
And the biggest influx of immigrants into the state of New Hampshire?
Indians.
Donald Trump ran into the ground, not managing COVID when he was in office.
Shut down.
Huge amounts of money, PPP money.
We're giving Donald Trump another chance.
Let's not care.
Put him in the office.
Line in his pockets.
Musk, I think, gave him $400 million.
Minimum wage.
Republicans can line their
pockets.
Okay.
So let's now hear from Mick Lowes in Fairfax Station, Virginia, on our line for independence.
Good morning, Mick Lowes.
So I do believe if you're referring to President -elect Donald Trump, he's only been convicted of 34 felony counts at this point.
I tell folks all the time, we need to refer to him as not President Trump.
He is a felon, right?
Felon President Trump.
That's how we need to talk to him.
When you get on a talk show and people ask him questions, they need to all say, felon President Trump.
What do you think about Germany?
And they need to keep doing it because he needs to be reminded that he is a felon, regardless if they put him in office or not.
The guy is a convicted felon.
He can't overturn that with his power he has.
And people need to realize that he doesn't care about those poor white people that put him in office.
He doesn't care about black people that put him in office or the Latinos.
When the black guys that voted him in office, when the policemen started shooting them more and arrested them more, and the white, the Spanish people that put him in office, they're going to be, half their family is going to be deported out of this country because of Trump.
They need to realize they voted the wrong man in, and they're going to pay for it.
That's all I have to say.
Ronnie is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Ronnie.
Yes.
Say, I'm a disabled veteran.
I was wondering on the cost of living raise this year, we got $100 on our VA checks.
I was wondering why, well, last year we got $250.
So I was wondering why.
And I'm on Social Security also.
I'm a disabled vet.
I'm not able to find that information for you quickly, but usually the cost of living adjustments are related to the overall rate of inflation.
And so since the rate of inflation has gone down, that could be one of the reasons.
Did you have any other points you wanted to share, Ronnie?
I'm sorry.
In the walls over there in Monroe.
And I've lived it, you know.
And we'd be better off just to let them do their time in prison.
But then they put them in protective custody so nobody can get to them.
But...
So, Ronnie, I was able to find a little bit more information about those cost of living adjustments that you were referencing earlier.
This is from military .com, back from October, where it says military retirees and disabled veterans will receive a 2 .5 % increases to their monthly paychecks for 2025, thanks to the annual cost of living adjustment,
or COLA, tied to inflation, while 2 .5 % may look low compared to recent years COLA adjustment.
The CPI...
Well, thank you for your extra effort.
I appreciate you.
Yes.
Good morning, Kimberly.
Happy New Year.
Thank you.
Listen, I'm going to be very short.
Donald Trump, the Democrats lost the Congress and the presidency simply because of one person, and that was Merrick Garland.
Merrick Garland took his own good time bringing charges against Donald Trump.
Donald Trump shouldn't have even been on the ballot.
All right.
Rose is in Batavia, Illinois, on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Rose.
And like advisors to President Trump.
They're not going to change any laws or do anything.
And Trump will handle everything that they advise him on.
And they're much like Alexander Hamilton, who advised President Washington.
And Alexander Hamilton was a foreigner who came from one of the islands, who was a mulatto, who was very smart.
And he was very needed at the time.
I think God sent Alexander Hamilton to this country.
And I think he did the same by giving us Elon Musk and Ramaswamy, people that we need to advance our country to make it great, not to keep pushing it in the marshes like the Democrats have been doing with all their sexual deviancies and ruining our children with sex.
Well, there are other bad things that they do.
I think that we need to get ahead, we need to be civilized, and we should honor people no matter what rankings they have in this country, whether it's the president or an immigrant.
Now, as far as I'm concerned, most of these immigrants that are coming in, I see them on TV, they're sitting on the streets collecting food and shelter from us.
And there's no place for them to have jobs, and a lot of them don't want to have...
When I see the pictures of New York, I never want to go to New York.
It's just the thought of going to New York makes me want to vomit.
That's how bad I think it is.
So if you can't run this as a good civilization for all the people that are citizens here, then you shouldn't be running it at all, which was Biden.
So thank you for listening to me.
David is in Chicopee, Massachusetts on our line for independents.
Good morning, David.
Good morning, Kimberly.
First of all, and I am an independent, but I'm a little bit more on the conservative side.
And I have trouble with the Democrats who are so hypocritical, especially that woman from New Hampshire.
You know, we need people here.
We need immigrants, but not from India and not from Africa.
And it's like, really?
So you're going to pick and choose where these people can come from.
And in the past, we've had incredible people come from all those countries here and really help make our country what it is.
But the biggest problem I have overall with this whole political thing that happened this year was on the issue of abortion.
You are sitting here today because you were born.
I am here because I was born.
And yet the Democratic Party believes In being able to destroy unborn children up until nine months.
I mean, there's something wrong when we lose respect for the most vulnerable among us.
So when we lose that, why not worry about anybody else?
Like President Biden, he just took away the people that were supposed to be killed in jail and pardoned them, yet they killed somebody.
And yet every day people have an abortion and kill a human being and they look the other way.
So I just I don't know.
You know, hearing all the callers, it looks like we are still totally, probably for the next four or five years um, separated in what we believe in this country and I don't think it's gonna get any better unfortunately, um.
But I think you do a good job sitting here I watch you with your hand waiting to knock somebody off, which is funny sometimes, and I don't blame you, But I just appreciate what the Washington Journal does.
Thank you.
Tom is in Greenridge, New Jersey, on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Tom.
Yeah, good morning.
Happy holidays.
I just have two things to say.
The lady from New Hampshire, she gave a long rant telling every American this and that, and that's the reason, everything she said was the reason why I voted for Donald Trump.
She said, let's see, unemployment or homelessness is up 50 % in New Hampshire.
Well, that was under the person she put in office, right?
Kamala and Biden.
So that lady must have been still living on the farm in the back somewhere behind near the horses.
But I just want to say, I'm a man of color, and I'm white.
And I hear people complaining, if you don't like it here in America, Get on an airplane and head back home to where your family is probably from.
Thank you.
Mark is in Cloverdale, Indiana on our line for independence.
Good morning, Mark.
Good morning.
This is Mark.
I'm calling in.
First of all, I'd like to make a couple short comments.
My doctor is from India and she's a lady of probably about 50 years old and she's featured on the front of the Indianapolis Beautiful gal, wonderful doctor and I thank India for every doctor that they send here.
Another thing I'd like to mention is we have had the discussion earlier and I didn't manage to get in on the discussion on polarization in America and so forth.
I've driven a truck up into Canada many times and I've met the Canadian people and they're just wonderful people and if they would become part of the United States I would welcome with open arms especially those that are from Alberta and Manitoba.
They're just like the center of the country.
The polarization is always around cultural issues.
It used to be the Democrats and Republicans could get along.
Real well with each other when it was just how you divide the economic pie.
But since it brought in abortion and perversion on children, there's no way that this country can ever come together because those involve moral issues of evil and good.
And you can't bring evil and good together.
Do appreciate your taking my call and wish you the best today.
Alan is in Mississippi on our line for Republicans.
Good morning, Alan.
Hi there, Alan.
Go ahead.
Hello, ma 'am.
Am I on?
Yes, you are.
Go ahead, Alan.
Okay.
Just a first thought about American politics.
Now, Clinton...
Are you referring to Clinton?
Because I believe he was in Arkansas.
That's all right.
It's the capitalist country and I understand that.
His wife, who was Secretary of State, travelled the world.
She's worth $140 million.
Now, all these people, three and a half carat diamonds, go into the family of Bidens.
For what reason, goodness ever knows.
Well, we all know, but nobody admits it.
Now, with President Trump, the difference is that he's a self -made man.
He did not take any salary for what he does.
He has no shares.
And this man is feared because he's not in anybody's pocket.
Carla is in New York City on our line for Democrats.
Good morning, Carla.
Good morning.
Thank you, Kimberly, for taking my call.
I'd like to respond to that lady from Illinois who's had such negative things to say about New York City.
I am sick and tired of people dumping on New York City.
I am a 66 -year -old single cat lady who has done very well here.
I love living here.
If I thought it was this safe cesspool, I would have been out of here yesterday.
And I'd like to remind her of something.
Your fearless leader, Trump Tower, is like the jewel in his crown.
If it's so terrible, why doesn't he just sell it and give it to some...
I think New York is a lot better place since he no longer resides here on a permanent basis.
Although the people from Florida do have my sympathy, I do have to say.
And I just want to say there was an other lady from New Hampshire and I thought what she had to say was very eloquent.
I wish I could be as articulate as she was just outlining all the things that she's experienced throughout her life.
I really hope that she does well on Social Security.
And that's pretty much all I have to say.
It's just that I think New York City is a great place to live.
It is the capital of the world for a reason.
Thank you and have a good day.
Well, and I hope everyone has a good day.
That is where we're going to end the show today.
Thank you to everybody who called in to share your questions and comments on Washington Journal.
We'll be back with another edition of the show tomorrow at 7 a .m. Eastern.
We hope you'll tune in.
Have a great day.
Next, from the C -SPAN archives,
a look at President -elect Trump's nominees in their own words.
You'll hear from Senator Marco Rubio, who has been tabbed to be the next Secretary of State, and Pete Hegseth, Defense Secretary nominee, among others.
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And later, former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta discusses the role of civics education and its implications for U .S. democracy.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
And President Dwight Eisenhower.
We sense with all our faculties that forces of good and evil are masked and armed and opposed as rarely before in history.
Watch historic inaugural speeches Saturdays at 7 p .m. Eastern on American History TV on C -SPAN 2.
In his latest book, LBJ and McNamara, Peter Osnos' dedication reads this way.
To those on the Vietnam wall, on the mall, and their countless Vietnamese counterparts, it did not have to happen.
Unquote.
In his role as publisher at Public Affairs Books, Osnos spent numerous hours working with former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara for his 1995 book, In Retrospect, The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam.
Osnos writes, this book describes what happened in the years between 1963 and McNamara's last day as Secretary of Defense in February of 1968.
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