Do you think he has a place in the future of the Democratic Party?
Well, I think Tom has played a number of really crucial roles throughout his time, right?
He ran for governor.
I was part of that campaign.
He then turned right around after not winning the primary and spent the entire next nine months making sure that Democrats would win the general election and campaigning tirelessly for Democratic candidates up and down the ballot.
He's really invested in the nuts and bolts of party building, and he's also really invested in the kind of communication and approach to politics that helps people hear and see that you are
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Leah Greenberg, the co -executive director of Indivisible.
Appreciate your time this morning on The Washington Journal.
Thank you.
This is Michael Robbins.
He's the president and CEO of the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems, talking about the recent news concerning drone sightings in the United States.
Mr. Robbins, thanks for your time.
Thanks so much for having me, Peter.
What's your organization?
Yeah, so AUVSI, as you said, the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems International.
We represent companies that work in the uncrewed system space, so that's the air.
Sure, absolutely.
The public is saying and legislators are saying versus what your folks are saying.
Yeah, so we view this as an opportunity to talk to the American people and have a conversation about the beneficial uses of drones, of which there are many.
Drones are an awesome tool for public safety, precision agriculture, medical delivery.
There are many use cases that are being employed right now, including in New Jersey where there's lots of infrastructure inspection happening.
Roads, bridges, pipelines, power lines, drones are doing inspection of all those things on a regular basis.
So there's a lot of positive use cases for drones.
But at the same time, there are some pretty serious gaps in both drone enabling policy as well as in the policies that enable UAS detection and mitigation, or drone detection and mitigation.
So we view this as an opportunity to start having that conversation or continue a conversation we've been having.
What do you think of the level of concern that has been expressed,
not only about the vehicles themselves, but the origin of the vehicles?
And where's the truth in what's being said?
We're good to go.
And I think what we're seeing is that a lot of people are maybe looking up for the first time and sort of paying a little bit closer attention to what's in the sky at night and misidentifying what is maybe a crewed aircraft, maybe it's a star,
maybe it's a satellite, and sort of thinking, well, that's there at night, it looks a little different, it's not moving really fast, it must be a drone, and often that's not the case.
That's not to suggest that there aren't some...
You know, legitimate, compliant drones operating along the eastern seaboard at night.
There are.
I mean, there are lots of missions that drones are undertaking compliantly and within the law.
But I think what we've seen from the videos posted online, the overwhelming majority of them are either a hoax or just people misidentifying aircraft, including some very legitimate officials, members of Congress and others,
who think they saw something that they misidentified as a drone.
What misinformation have you heard?
Yeah, so there's definitely been people, like with anything that happens in the news, where people are trying to take advantage of the situation and suggesting that, you know, whether it's, you know, the government is controlling these drones and, or, you know,
I'm not going to repeat all the various hoaxes and myths, but there's definitely been a lot of misinformation.
And look, that comes with any situation, right?
When we had, you know, dramatic hurricanes earlier this year, you know, people suggested that...
Michael Robbins joining us for this conversation.
If you want to ask him questions about drones and their use, 202 -748 -8000.
If you live in the eastern and central time zones, 202 -748 -8001.
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And you can also text us at 202 -748 -8003 if you want to post your, and you can also post your questions on Facebook and on X.
When it comes to oversight of how drones are operated, how much comes from the federal government?
Yeah, right now, drone, all airspace is federal.
So let's clarify that.
So all aircraft, whether it's a drone or a commercial aviation aircraft or general aviation, Only federal authorities are regulating those aircraft once they take off.
Local state officials do have some say around where they take off and land with zoning, permitting, and things of that nature.
But once the aircraft is airborne, it's entirely federal authority.
And so then who exactly, what branches of the government deal with their regulation or their oversight?
Yeah, so it's primarily the Department of Transportation and more specifically the Federal Aviation Administration.
On the safety and operations side, and on the security side, there's also a role for the Department of Homeland Security.
According to, this is from the FAA, saying 792 ,000 registered drones in the United States this half of October.
Is there enough being done, or is there enough manpower being done to make sure proper oversight is done on how these drones are used?
Sure.
Well, when it comes to drone policy, I think we can look at it two different ways.
One, there's the sort of enabling regulations.
That's what's allowing people to fly in the airspace right now.
And I would suggest that the policies that are in place right now...
We're good to go.
So many great use cases, but a lot of that is limited because the rules for enabling drones to operate at scale are not yet in place.
And I think that's part of what this challenge is, is people are seeing maybe drones and they're like, oh, that drone, should it be there?
Because they're not used to seeing them all the time.
And when drones become more commonplace, when the rules are in place to allow for drones to, oh, I need an onion for dinner, I'm just going to order one on my phone and it's going to be delivered seven minutes later.
Instead of having to get in my car and get on unsafe roads, when things like this start occurring more regularly, people won't have the same sort of reaction that they have now when they see a drone in the air, particularly at night.
Because it is still somewhat new and novel, despite the number of drones that are in the airspace.
On the other side, Congress hasn't updated the federal authorities for UAS detection and mitigation since 2018.
So a long time has passed, more than six years.
Since Congress last addressed federal authorities for UAS detection and mitigation.
And right now there's no authority for state, local, tribal, territorial governments at all.
So it only resists the federal level, and even that authority is extremely limited.
The Department of Energy, the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Defense are the only four agencies that have that authority.
And it's not a standing authority.
In order to actually use that authority, they need to get...
uh approval at a fairly high level of of those different agencies, with the exception really, of DOE protecting some critical infrastructure um, like nuclear sites, as well as Department OF Defense um, you know, sort of having airspace awareness around its, its uh the military bases um.
There has been a national action plan released in uh by the, by the administration, in april of 2022.
We're good to go.
I think?
This is Michael Robbins of the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems.
He serves as their president and CEO.
Our first call is from Susan from New Jersey.
Okay, great.
Susan, good morning.
You're on with our guests.
Go ahead.
Good morning.
Thanks for taking my call.
I have a call for Mr. Robbins.
Question.
If you're having dinner with your family outside, your kids and your grandparents, and a person literally sitting on a drone, or a drone who you don't know, came and hovered right next to your table, how would you feel?
Because I see that coming, and right now I found out that under U .S. law that's totally allowed, and the police would not even be able to make that drone leave.
Because in 2016, the FAA took control over all airspace, including the air just above your backyard grass, and there's nothing to stop drones from flying over there.
I live in New Jersey.
I spend a lot of time outdoors.
I watch the birds.
I watch the stars.
I understand the companies you represent are working on dedicated drone corridors to support delivery routes.
We all like delivery convenience, but will those routes be over my house?
You know, Europe has already figured this out.
They have geo -zones and countries worked out, you know, where industry, local governments, real people, they have an organized system, and drones can't fly over your house unless they get permission.
And we don't have that yet.
And, you know, I think people need to think about, do I want drones over my backyard?
How close at all?
And to speak out, because right now, I think big tech is...
Susan, we'll leave it there for our guests to answer those concerns.
Great question, Susan.
And certainly, I respect the perspective that you're bringing to this conversation and a very thoughtful question.
Currently, whether it is a drone taking pictures of you or someone using binoculars or a cell phone camera or a telephonic lens, all of those have privacy violations.
A drone is just a tool no different than a camera phone that I have in my pocket and that you likely have at home or binoculars that you have.
And if someone is spying on you and invading your privacy, the same privacy protections that protect your home from a cell phone camera...
I don't know.
We're good to go.
They go out of their way to meet with the community and sort of dispel myths and concerns that the community may have.
And certainly at times there is a little bit of trepidation because this is new and people don't necessarily understand what these drones do and what they don't do.
But what we have found overwhelmingly is that once drones start working in the community, again whether it's for delivery or public safety or infrastructure inspection, they are very much welcomed.
And in fact in certain areas of the country like in North Texas where drone delivery has really taken off, We're good to go.
What drones do and what drones don't do.
So thank you Susan for that question.
She talked about airspace over houses.
Do you have a certain amount of privacy that way as far as the airspace over your house?
Sure.
So again, all airspace is federally regulated.
But again, in the same way that if someone was invading your privacy with a cell phone camera, those same privacy protections would extend to someone using a drone invading your privacy as well.
Let's hear from Wayne in Pennsylvania.
Go ahead.
Yes.
I don't know how many classes they send these people to to learn how to answer these questions, but 850 ,000 drones and it's just funny that we haven't seen any of them or any reports for forever.
Now all of a sudden there's thousands of them in the skies and I understand there's a container radioactive material missing in New Jersey and they could be looking for those.
So, thank you for that question, Wayne, from Pennsylvania.
So, according to FAA data from about 2023, so it's a little bit dated right now, on a daily basis in New Jersey, for example, there are about 1 ,400 to 1 ,500 flights per day.
That's a lot of drone flights.
And you're right.
Maybe people didn't really pay attention to them anymore.
Drones are very, very small, typically.
They're very, very quiet.
And when they're operating at day or night, most of the time, people don't even notice that they're there.
So now, I think what we're seeing in New Jersey is maybe a few drones were spotted, particularly at night.
The drones that have been identified as actual drones certainly were operating compliantly.
They have lighting on them, indicating that they're not seeking to be there secretly, not seeking to be there stealthily.
If you were seeking to do some sort of nefarious mission, you wouldn't have navigation lights and strobe lights on your drone.
So I think people, to my point earlier, are just starting to maybe look up and pay attention a little bit more.
And then clearly there's been a lot of misidentification of other aircraft or stars or...
I think that tells you that an overwhelming majority of those sightings were not...
In those conversations with federal officials, what are you asking?
What are they saying?
You know, a lot of your callers are asking, and the American people are asking, you know, what is happening?
Is it, as it seems, which, you know, to me, which is that there are a few compliant drones, maybe some uncompliant drones, or is there something, you know, larger going on here?
And by and large, you know, the overwhelming response has been, you know, no sightings of any uncompliant drones.
What about other countries?
Are they flying these drones?
Have you heard anything on that front?
You mean here in the U .S.?
Yes.
I have not heard anything on that front.
We are certainly aware of other forms of intrusions into our nation, whether you have individuals seeking to break into military bases.
We certainly have a very serious cyber problem that's been well reported in the news.
You know, Volt Typhoon, Salt Typhoon, where foreign adversaries are, particularly the People's Republic of China, are probing our networks into our telecommunications, into our water, into our electrical infrastructure.
Those are all very serious problems that we...
Let's hear from Michael in Florida.
You're on with our guest, Michael.
Go ahead.
I feel that it's an insult to the American public to say that, oh, in general, you look up, you really don't know it's a drone, we're not used to looking up in the sky.
I don't buy that.
I think that within a day that the federal government could find what these drones are and just not find what they are, where are they originating from and what are they doing?
That's my statement.
My question is, I hear that they may be looking for radiation exposure.
That may be true or not, but I just feel that a general question and a general statement saying that the American public doesn't really know what a drone is.
A drone, it flies so slow, or it doesn't have a lot of space when it's going over a certain neighborhood.
And the size of these drones.
I just feel it's such a downplay to the intelligence of the American population to say that they don't really, usually a public does not look in the sky.
They don't really know what they're seeing.
I feel that it's a little bit more just because of the actual quantity and the actual size of these drones.
What do you think about that?
And one more thing.
How many deliveries are...
You doing at 9, 10 o 'clock at night.
Do we have deliveries going on at that time of the hour?
Okay, Michael.
Thanks.
Yeah, great questions, Michael.
So I'll address your last question first.
There's not a lot happening on the drone delivery side at night, but certainly there are a lot of other missions that are occurring at night, whether it's public safety, most crime occurs at night, so a lot of local law enforcement use drones as tactical first response.
The governor of Maryland.
Certainly a well -informed individual.
We're good to go.
What he was actually viewing were commercial aircraft on approach and landing.
There's something in the night sky called the parallax effect.
When you're looking at a light, it's very hard to tell how far away it is, how fast it's moving or not moving at all.
There's optical illusions with lights at night.
So when you have that parallax effect occurring, things that could be mistaken as drones are clearly now being mistaken as drones when they're actually something very, very different from drones.
Take those two examples from two very well -respected elected officials and extrapolate that many, many times over throughout the American public.
And I think that is what's leading to this sort of...
Yes, thank you so much.
I really appreciate this segment.
So I was actually just wondering, there's been obviously a lot of videos circulating online.
There's videos of potential drones or UFOs over the Capitol.
I wanted to see if you have any tips or suggestions for citizens to remain literate around as more of these videos circulate.
Can they be generated by AI or are they real videos?
Are there any suggestions you have for that?
Sure.
Yeah, great question, Shannon.
Thank you so much.
I know that some social media sites do designate a video if it's clearly been used, generated with AI so that folks can make informed decisions.
I have seen a few videos myself that are very clearly altered or fake.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
Everything should be looked at with a certain degree of skepticism when it's posted online.
Particularly, you know, not from verified sources.
If the authority for drone operation ultimately comes from Congress, what should Congress offer to clarify what's going on currently and to resolve some of the issues that are going on currently?
Yeah, I think there's a couple things Congress should do.
One, they should hold the FAA accountable for instituting the rules that will normalize drone operations so that...
We can get past this sort of, you know, this is rare, this is unique, and drones become part of our regular everyday lives like many other forms of technology and many other forms of transportation so that we don't have this sort of skepticism of drones in the future.
Congress needs to update UAS detection and mitigation policy.
As I mentioned, it's been since 2018 since those rules have been updated.
A lot has changed since 2018.
And that is leaving a lot of state, local, federal, state, local, tribal, territorial We're good to go.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
We are under -investing and investing in some cases in the wrong things with our national airspace.
Whether it's our air traffic control towers or our air traffic controllers using paper strips to control air traffic the way they did in the 1960s, 95 % of air traffic controllers are still controlling air traffic using paper strips in 2024.
That's wild.
And I think it's indicative of the fact that we're spending a lot of money on our air traffic organization keeping...
This is Don from Wyoming.
Hello.
So my questions are this: I'm a Part 107 license holder, and part of my curriculum pointed out, highlighted that in order to operate a drone over traffic, over public spaces where people were present,
you had to file a flight plan with the air traffic control, request an exemption for flying over traffic,
Or over the public, and where the public is involved, you would have to notify the public that they're entering that operation area.
So I'm baffled by the notion that we don't know where these drones are coming from, because if the flight plan isn't approved by the air traffic control or the exemption granted by the FAA, then the drones indeed, are flying illegally and putting the population At risk.
And I'll take the response off the air.
Good morning.
Thank you, Don.
Yeah, Don, first, congratulations on getting your Part 107 certificate.
What is that, by the way?
For those that don't know, that is essentially the license to be able to operate drones in the U .S.
Beyond sort of just the recreational flying, you're really doing some sort of a service, a commercial drone operation.
So congratulations to you.
I think you're absolutely right in that there are certain segments of the airspace.
We're good to go.
I think?
Compliant operators like yourself, 107 operators, are following the rules and they are doing things the right way, which is giving federal authorities the ability to understand what's in the air and have airspace awareness.
I think where there is a shortcoming is when you do have people that are not operating under 107 or are not seeking LANCE authorization and they're flying in airspace where maybe they shouldn't.
I think that happens very rarely.
It's not something we hear happening on a regular basis despite this current speculation that drones are doing more than what they really are.
In those cases, you do need to have the UAS detection and mitigation technology.
And policies in place that I've been discussing to give all levels of government better airspace awareness.
AUVSI .org, the website for the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems.
Michael Robbins, serving as the president and CEO.
Thanks for your time.
Thank you, Pedro.
CQ Roll Call Budget and Appropriations Reporter Aidan Quigley discusses the latest on negotiations to avoid a government shutdown on Friday.
And then a conversation on federal spending, the incoming Trump administration, and congressional news of the day.
First, with Republican Missouri Congressman Mark Alford, a member of the Armed Services and Agriculture Committees.
And we'll also talk with Democratic Texas Congressman Al Green, a member of the Financial Services Committee.