Then George Mason University's Benjamin Clutze discusses efforts to bridge the political divide in the U.S., including his role in producing the documentary Undivide Us.
And Alexander Hefner, host of Bloomberg's Breaking Bread and PBS's The Open Mind, talks about his series featuring conversations with politicians in an attempt to forge political unity and civility.
Washington Journal is next live.
Join the conversation.
Good morning, everyone, and happy Thanksgiving on this Thursday, November 28th.
We are grateful to all of you that watch and support C-SPAN.
Thank you for that.
And this morning, our conversation with all of you is about your Thanksgiving dinner plans.
Will you talk politics?
Democrats, dial in at 202-748-8000.
Republicans, 202-748-8001.
Independents, your line this morning, 202-748-8002.
You can also join us in a text at 202-748-8003.
Include your first name, city, and state.
Or post on facebook.com/slash C-SPAN and on X with the handle at C-SPANWJ.
Good morning, everyone.
Pew Research recently did a poll asking Americans what they are likely to do this Thanksgiving year.
What are they likely to talk about?
Coming in first is watching sports or talking about work or school.
Third, 28% said they do plan to talk about the recent presidential election.
Do you plan to do the same today?
We want to know from you.
Here's some recent opinion pieces from around the country and newspapers, beginning with the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
And they write, don't let politics ruin your Thanksgiving.
Then there is also this piece on the Huffington Post.
My husband and his family voted for Trump, so I'm canceling Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Saying Andrea Tate saying she needed some space.
And then there is also this from the Sun Sentinel.
On Thanksgiving, let's eat the bird, not flip it.
And from the Bangor Daily News, go ahead, talk politics at Thanksgiving dinner.
And this is what they write in their opinion piece.
People in our lives have different values, perspectives, and opinions.
And that means that for us to live together, we must navigate those differences in a healthy, productive way.
If we are so interested in maintaining the peace that we simply try to avoid those differences, then we are not actually dealing with one another, but distancing ourselves from each other.
My preference would be to do the opposite.
We should deal with our differences by confronting them.
So I say we should bring up politics.
Talk about Donald Trump and Kamala Harris and whether you are happy or sad about the next four years.
Bring up religion.
Talk about your zealotry or atheism or general confusion about what you believe.
Bring up money.
Talk about how hard it is to afford college for your kids and how you're struggling with unemployment.
Bring up anything.
Talk about it all.
This morning we want to know, do you plan to talk about politics at Thanksgiving dinner?
Want to show you what the Vice President Kamala Harris had to say recently when she released a video, her first remarks post-election to her campaign supporters.
I just have to remind you, don't you ever let anybody take your power from you.
You have the same power that you did before November 5th.
And you have the same purpose that you did.
And you have the same ability to engage and inspire.
So don't ever let anybody or any circumstance take your power from you.
Look, this mission that we have, it takes hard work.
But as you've heard me say many times, we like hard work.
Hard work is good work.
Hard work can be joyful work.
And in doing our work, we will remain committed and intentional about building community, building coalitions, reminding people that we all have so much more in common than what separates us.
We will be armed with the faith and the fuel that tells us what is possible and then drives us to achieve it.
So let's continue to organize and mobilize and stay engaged.
And I thank you all.
I thank you all.
We are all in this together.
All right?
We are all in this together.
And on this practical eve of Thanksgiving, I wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving with the ability and to find the ability at this moment to just remember there is so much to be thankful for.
Vice President Kamala Harris's Thanksgiving message to supporters this week.
We want to know from you, do you plan to talk politics this Thanksgiving dinner today?
And another Thanksgiving message from the incoming president, President Trump on Truth Social.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, including to the radical left lunatics who have worked so hard to destroy our country, but who have miserably failed and will always fail because their ideas and policies are so hopelessly bad that the great people of our nation just gave a landslide victory to those who want to make America great again.
Don't worry, our country will soon be respected, productive, fair, and strong, and you will be more than ever before proud to be an American.
Raymond in Pensacola, Florida, Republican, let's hear from you first, Raymond.
Good morning and happy Thanksgiving.
Well, thank you.
Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
I will deflect if there's any conversation about politics because several years ago I went to visit my relatives in the Northeast and I have people of the opposite party, the Democrats.
They brought it up at the dinner table.
My wife says, we're not talking politics today.
This is Thanksgiving.
We need to be thankful for what we have and work to make this country better.
We have a lot of problems and I prefer to just be thankful for what I have and what we should have.
Thank you.
And that's how you deflected, you and your wife?
My wife deflected immediately when somebody said something about me personally because I'm a Republican.
Right.
Why not try to bridge the divide as the Bangor Daily News recommends?
Well, I do that quite a bit.
I mean, there's a lot of people right now.
They're talking about they're going to tear our new president to pieces, which means they're not going to work towards getting this country back to where it could be better.
All right, Raymond.
Robin, Cleveland, Tennessee, Democratic caller.
Hi, Robin.
Hey.
Hey, and of course, we're going to talk about it.
We are a multiracial family.
You know, I have biracial grandsons, and today is his birthday.
Happy birthday, AJ.
He turned eight today.
Yeah, and his mom is Greek.
And we'll talk about the fact that how people who claim to be so moral follow behind an immoral man, you know, and how the Bible talks about what God despises, and Trump is every last one of them.
So we'll try to make that make sense.
Robin, will anybody disagree at the table?
Well, we have millionaires in our family that do not follow Trump.
So no, nobody will disagree because, you know, we are a majority black family.
And so nobody will disagree.
We'll just be puzzled by the fact that I went to high school in Englewood, Tennessee.
I had eight white, black people in my whole class in 1986.
And we'll be puzzled by the fact that we were let down by the people that we grew up with.
We thought that they were better people than what they are showing that they are.
So we'll discuss that.
And so, you know, it'll be a good Thanksgiving and we'll carry on.
Black people are built for this.
This is not our first adversity, and we'll be able to power through this.
I just hope that Republicans get everything that they voted for.
Robin, will you discuss, since you're all Democrats around the table, will you discuss who your party should run in 2028?
Should the vice president stay in the fight, as she has said?
I'm not sure about that.
I don't know if America is ready for that yet.
I think she gave it a good try.
I think that if Joe Biden was that incapacitated, he might should have stepped out earlier.
But I don't think that they necessarily did Joe Biden right.
I think he did a good job with what he had.
And so, you know, a lot of it might be our own personal karma by not doing right by Joe Biden.
So, you know, we will talk about that too.
I mean, because to me, he did a good job.
Now we're going to talk about how all these prices that they claim was killing them, Trump is going to raise them threefold.
So, you know, like I said, we are built for this.
So we're not worried about what it's going to be.
We're going to grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.
That's all it's going to be.
All right, Robin.
Jeff in Indianapolis, Democratic College.
Jeff, are you talking politics today?
There may be some political discussions, but I'm just on a wait and see attitude when it comes to the new administration.
Of course, I'm a Democrat.
I didn't vote for him.
But I'm just taking the wait and see attitude.
Yes, there will be some political discussion.
Probably not much, but some.
So, Jeff, if you're going to take a wait-and-see attitude, you're going to talk politics today.
What policies would you bring up at the dinner table today that you're expecting from the Trump administration?
Well, they campaigned.
The two main issues that they campaigned on were the economy and the border.
He said he's going to fix the border.
We're going to wait and see.
And then he said he's going to make the economy better again, too, when the economy is already in good shape as far as I'm concerned.
So I don't know what he thinks he can do to make the economy better.
I mean, I just think he's telling people a false sense of security.
All right, Jeff Democratic College in Indianapolis says they could talk about the economy and the border today at the table.
Bill in Kiss me, Florida, Republican.
Bill, will you talk politics?
Well, actually, no, because this is like a whole year-round thing.
I can't talk with my wife about it.
She's on the other side.
And it's like, you know, you don't want to delve into this too much.
It's going to ruin dinner.
So you and your wife are opposite.
She's a Democrat.
Yes.
So, Bill, you may find this piece interesting.
Huffington Post, Andrea Tate wrote this piece.
My husband and his family voted for Trump, so I'm canceling Thanksgiving and Christmas.
The day after the election, when she woke up, she texted her husband saying, I can't do it.
I can't go to Thanksgiving and Christmas this year.
I need space.
Would your wife relate to that?
Well, a little bit, but she wouldn't cancel going to her and see her granddaughters or anything.
But it's been a rough year.
It was rough all year.
And then you had a non-primary where the leaders walked into the office and told Biden to get out.
And that's not, that's not the way it's done.
So you really ticked off a lot more people.
Yeah.
Bill, why was it?
Why was how did you and your wife navigate then that all year?
Did you just not talk about it?
It's like she's calling me curse words, everything.
You know, we're really against one another on politics.
So hopefully we're going to calm down here.
So today you're going to stay clear of it.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, what's his name?
Carvo and his wife.
Yes.
They stayed together.
So I guess we can't do it.
All right.
Well, in your case, it doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Yeah.
We'll go to Silver Spring, Maryland.
Democratic caller.
Help me with your name.
Silver Spring, Maryland, Democratic Caller.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Will you talk about politics today?
Well, the Okalito family, which is us, we don't have a, we have a code of conduct that says no politics at the Thanksgiving table.
If you want to talk politics, you have to go either in your room or excuse yourself from the dinner table and no politics allowed.
All right.
So anywhere else but the dinner table today?
Anywhere else but the dinner table.
It's not, I mean, it's not allowed.
We had it up.
We saw what happened on the media.
We saw what happened through C-SPAN.
We don't want to carry it at the dinner table.
Anywhere else but the dinner table.
Okay, and do you think that'll happen in other places of the house today?
It will maybe in other places of the house, but not at the dinner table.
I mean, maybe in the bathroom, maybe in the bedroom.
Okay.
All right.
Thanks, caller.
Appreciate that.
Will you or your family talk about politics this Thanksgiving Day?
That is our conversation with all of you this morning.
We're going to continue talking about bridging the divide over politics throughout today's Washington Journal.
Spruce did a poll about this as well.
And 64% of Americans said election-related stress is impacting their holiday plans.
23% said they are considering skipping Thanksgiving altogether.
59% are worried about political disagreements causing tension at their Thanksgiving gatherings.
49% want to have a total political conversation ban for all guests and family members, not just at the dinner table, but a ban.
And 52% have already had arguments with their family members over political differences.
Mark in Zachary, Louisiana, Independent.
Hi, Mark.
Hi, happy Thanksgiving and happy Thanksgiving to everybody in America.
Same to you.
And I want to say Thanksgiving is holiday.
The way I deal, the way everybody, I know there are a lot of people hurting and a lot of people are celebrating, but I wanted to put it this way.
I feel for those that are hurting and the way they can heal.
I lost both my parents to COVID a week apart, one week apart, funerals one week apart.
And the only way I could heal, and I was very angry and I was very hurt, was to always start looking out for others every day, some small act of kindness.
I don't care about, it didn't matter whatever happened in the election, whoever won, I wasn't going to let it change who I was.
In fact, I went to the schools.
I own a plumbing company, and I talked to them about, I wanted to just do something that I could be proud of, make me forget about all the hurt.
And they're going to start introducing the kids in high school to trades because COVID not only took away my parents, it took away our trades.
We don't have enough trades in our people who can come up and work and it's costing everybody.
So Mark, is that your advice today around the Thanksgiving dinner table?
Is that you instead talk about what each of you can do for others?
Yes, do for others, how to heal.
How can we heal from this?
And I can tell you how you can heal.
I'm 100% know how you can heal.
Look out for others.
Always do every day, always do some little thing.
It makes you feel good.
There's no, when you get angry, there's nothing you can do that's going to change that.
There's nothing you can do that's going to change what happened in this election.
But if you do that, people will gravitate to you and we can come together.
And we need, that's what we need to talk about.
How can we come together, even though we disagree on so many things?
Okay.
Understood, Mark.
And coming up in the Washington Journal, we're going to be talking with Benjamin Klutze, who's the executive director at George Mason University's Mercatus Center, about a movie, Undivide Us movie that he has been part of.
And I want to show you the trailer from this movie as we continue to talk this morning about politics on this Thanksgiving day.
For the left and its minions in the media.
Just how bad is the GOP?
You called it two Americas that are divided.
How do civil wars get started?
And how close do you think is the United States?
These screens that are in our homes and in our pockets, they put forth this story about America that we're on the edge of civil war, that we can't get along, and the danger is that we might start to believe that.
Perhaps if we created the opportunity for folks to come together, giving them an opportunity to talk and explore ideas on controversial issues.
Could you really get regular people from all kinds of different lives, really put them together and get them talking about hard stuff?
Like, is that doable?
I think we should try.
We've got just a remarkable opportunity to kind of create something special that nobody's ever done before.
We'll pick an issue.
We know there's dozens of controversial issues.
And then we'll go out and find people who are leaning one direction and we'll find folks who are leaning the other direction.
Leaning Democratic.
I'm independent.
I'm a moderate Republican.
Left of liberal.
I got them out.
How deep does it go?
Does the average person feel that anger all the time?
Or is it the political elites who profit from anger and division?
Are they the ones who are the problem?
Well, Ben, going to be bringing in some regular people and asking about some tough issues, and you're going to be there at the table with them.
If we don't get regular citizens talking again, disagreeing, and doing it respectfully, doing it way better than Washington does, it seems like there's a lot at stake.
If we don't figure that out, we're going to jump in together, my friend.
The Undivide Us documentary.
We'll talk more about that coming up on the Washington Journal with Benjamin Klutze, who was a producer of that documentary.
From what you just saw there, do you think that's something you could do at the dinner table today?
Danny in Yuma, Arizona, Republican.
Hi, Danny.
Will you talk politics?
Good morning, Greta, and happy Thanksgiving to everybody.
You know, honestly, Greta, it's just my dad and I take care of my daddy.
He's 92 years old when he's bedridden, and he can't see and he can't hear.
So to talk to him, you've got to scream at him.
So it's not really going to be, and we're both Republicans, so there's nothing really there to talk about.
But, Greta, I'm a little disappointed in C-SPAN.
The last several days, I've been waiting for you guys to cover what's going on down here at the border.
And Tom Horman getting death threats and whatnot for securing our book, going to secure our border.
I mean, we still have a huge colossal problem down here, and it seems like you guys are staying away from it for some reason.
Not at all.
I mean, we've definitely covered the border issue a lot here on C-SPAN, and we will obviously be covering it under this new administration.
So, you know, if you are interested in how much we've covered the border, go to our website, c-span.org.
Put in that key word, border, or southern border, and you'll find how much we've discussed it here on C-SPAN hearings that we've covered, etc.
David in Cherokee, North Carolina, an independent.
Hi, David.
How you doing?
Good morning.
Will you and your family talk about politics today?
Yes, we will.
We'll be discussing the things that's going on and how America is just not America anymore.
In what way?
And I was growing up.
I'm in my 50s.
And for us to have grown up in the late 70s, all from the 70s up, I mean, it's just, you was proud to be that American.
You know, you was proud to say that.
Today, we're so divided into the right-wing, left-wing thing, to which it's to me, it's all the same bird.
You know, it's one bird.
And for us to not be able to sit down and discuss and be open-hearted and minded to issues, because while we're all at each other, then these other countries around us and the surrounding waters and air, I mean, things can happen.
And here we sit arguing and fighting and fussing among each other to where, you know, I mean, we got to be aware of those things.
But like I said, to grow up in between now and when we were in the 70s and 80s, it's just, it's different.
All right, David.
Well, you may find this article interesting.
Political divide not new to Americans.
A history lesson for all of you in the Washington Post this morning.
A humble gourd's divisive role in a nation at war.
Red and blue may be the sides many Americans pick to divide ourselves today, but in the 1800s, it was pumpkin pie versus sweet potato pie that signaled political and cultural discord.
There was a huge plum pudding, custards and pies of every name and description ever known in Yankee land, yet the pumpkin pie occupied the most distinguished niche.
Sarah Joseph Hale, an abolitionist and the 1800s version of a lifestyle influencer, wrote in 1827: Hale championed the pumpkin as a symbol of Yankee virtue and small, sustainable farming that didn't rely on enslaved labor.
It was an intentional contrast.
And the article goes on to write this: while the pumpkin pie was an iconic part of New England cooking, the South went another direction.
Quote, to this day, they eat sweet potato pie for Thanksgiving instead of pumpkin pie because it just meant something different.
Sweet potato pie was what African American women under enslavement and then afterward made because sweet potatoes are an African plant.
If you're interested in the article, you can find it in the Washington Post this morning.
John in Mankato, Minnesota, Democratic caller.
Hi, John.
Oh, hi.
Well, we already had our Thanksgiving, but we were all Democrats, and it was wonderful to be around such highly intelligent, well-informed people, I could say.
But also, I just wanted to tell you a couple of little things.
One is one of the cousins told of her four-year-old child who, right after the election, was having bad dreams about Donald Trump.
And I just want children to know what's going on at some level and it's affecting them.
And the other one was the 10-year-old girl, my niece, who was at the dinner table, and we were all talking about some subject.
And all of a sudden, she says, Well, I saw on 60 minutes, I saw on 60 minutes about how they're building houses for the homeless.
And it was so wonderful to see that some young people are tuning into, you know, the ability to learn things that are truthful and then that they're interested in the world and what's going on.
Okay.
And that was very encouraging to all of us.
All right, John.
Related to what you're saying, here's a headline: one-third of adults under 30, those young people, say they are likely to get into an argument about politics on Thanksgiving.
Keith, Madison, Wisconsin, Independent.
Hi, Keith.
Hello.
Good morning.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Will you talk politics today?
No, I'm not going to be talking politics because I won't be visiting my family.
They are all MAGA fascists.
And I've had a text, I was in a group text with them, and I pointed out some things to them, which they should have known if they were paying attention, if they were observant political persons, and they would have understood some things.
Number one, Trump pushed fake scientific solutions to the pandemic and spread the pandemic and caused over 400,000 deaths.
He led a coup in 2020.
He has scapegoated immigrants, called them poisoning the blood of our nation, channeling the very rhetoric of Adolf Hitler.
He held a rally at the Madison Square Garden, which the American Bund did in 1939.
And this was after he was called a fascist by two of his generals, or it was reported that he was called a fascist by two of his people.
Keith, you sent this to your family.
Yeah, I texted them, and I told them that he nearly started a war with North Korea.
He told his generals, he told one of his generals if it was possible to nuke North Korea and blame it on another country.
Keith, any response from them?
Nothing.
Okay, so you're not going.
Canceling Thanksgiving.
I won't even associate with them anybody who supports this monster.
Okay, that's Keith's opinion in Madison, Wisconsin, an independent caller.
We're asking if you're talking politics at your Thanksgiving dinner table today.
Mary in Michigan, Democratic caller.
Good morning, Greta.
I feel like I won a lotto to get in today.
Well, I haven't listened to your show in a couple weeks, like three, four weeks, but I've been volunteering five days a week as a grandmother at the local school.
And believe me, being around young people and young children will change your attitude of this country.
People need to get off social media.
They need to get off the news or whatever.
What we will be discussing today as a family is local news and state news.
And it's been that way for a while.
We can argue all day over the school board and what our township is doing here.
And my unique, not unique, well, my situation is I'm a retired RN, and I worked for a year during the pandemic, and I just had to retire.
And luckily, I was financially able to do it.
I'm 60, I just turned 65.
But due to the mismanagement or whatever, I belong to a group, and it's been like the 1st of January, of retired medical people.
And we actually are in therapy because of what I would call post-traumatic stress disorder from working during the pandemic.
And it's gotten a lot better, but just seeing Donald Trump on TV, that night I will have a massive panic attack or whatever.
So going to this, working with young people in that school.
But I've had within the last year, and it happened last summer, I had two nieces move back to Michigan.
One lived in California.
Her husband was in the Navy long-term, well, they're in their 40s.
And they moved back to Michigan.
And then I had a niece that lived in the Washington, D.C. area, and they moved back.
They moved back to Michigan.
And the reason was because of the cost of living and just a whole lot of social reasons or whatever.
Okay.
So is that what you will talk about today?
Yes, I'll see how things are going.
I mean, they don't live up here.
I'm in northeast Michigan.
They're in southern Michigan.
They're down in Grand Rapids in Ann Arbor.
One is a nurse and one is a teacher.
Now, the teacher in Virginia, if her husband didn't have a really good, he has a really good job, but she made, I have a sister that's also getting ready to retire as a teacher.
She made a third of what my sister makes here in Alpena, Michigan as a teacher in Manassas, Virginia.
And their housing was twice as much.
Okay.
So it sounds like economic issues is what you'll discuss today.
Mary in Michigan, Democratic caller, thank you for the call.
Here's some headlines to share with all of you that may come up at the dinner table today.
This is front page of the New York Times.
China releases three U.S. inmates in an exchange.
Three Americans who were detained in China have been released in a prisoner swap with Beijing.
The Biden administration said on Wednesday one of the men had been an FBI informant, according to senior U.S. officials.
And then here is the front page of the Washington Times this morning with two headlines.
Migrants scramble for havens before Trump's inauguration.
Activists plead with Biden to protect his legacy.
And next to that is dangerous threats target several Trump appointees, FBI investigating home swattings and bomb claims.
Those made news.
That made news yesterday around the country.
That's the front pages of those two newspapers this morning.
Inside the Washington Post, there's this headline: President-elect Trump's pick, critic of the coronavirus will lead the NIH.
Here is the president's pick at Stanford University in 2020.
He wrote an open letter known as the Great Barrington Declaration and a critic of the COVID response at NIH.
And then there's also this in the papers this morning: vaccine rates stall ahead of likely peak for COVID, flu, and RSV.
That is also in the Washington Post this morning, some related headlines.
We'll get more headlines in this morning as we continue to talk to all of you about your plans for this Thanksgiving day.
Does it include talking politics?
Bernie in Howard Beach, New York, Democratic Caller.
Hi, Bernie.
Good morning.
Good morning to you.
And the answer to your question is absolutely no.
There will be no discussion of politics.
We're going to be talking about silly things.
We're going to enjoy ourselves and make it very light.
Talk about the grandchildren, our inadequacies, make fun of ourselves, and just play.
Besides that, I'd like to say that I believe the problem with the nature of politics in this country is the language.
The language is atrocious.
People have to get along to sit down and negotiate.
And you can't negotiate with someone who's called you a moron.
You can't negotiate with someone who's making fun of you.
Get rid of that language.
Treat people alike.
So we need civility in order to talk about politics.
And that has left in this election.
And I'd also like to say I'm a Democrat, but Republicans are intelligent.
They're not stupid.
Most people are average, you know, and as far as intelligence, some of them are not as well-informed as others.
I'm 82 years old.
I've seen a lot of garbage over my life.
But I'm totally upset about the nature of the language we use.
It's insulting to me.
And I would think that the person who utters that kind of language ultimately will think about it.
I mean, it's not sleepy Joe.
You know, his name is President Biden.
Bernie there in New York calling for civility.
On a lighter note this morning, I want to share with all of you: astronauts aboard the International Space Station recorded this Thanksgiving message yesterday.
Greetings from the International Space Station.
Our crew up here just wanted to say happy Thanksgiving to all our friends and family who are down on earth and everyone who is supporting us.
Thanksgiving is typically a holiday where family and friends get together.
Sometimes that can't happen to physically be around each other.
But today's age, you can virtually tie in to your family and friends.
And one of those big traditions is having a Thanksgiving meal together.
And so we're going to celebrate that tradition up here, though our meal may look a little bit different.
Dawn, if you hold the mic.
So we've got a container here of all the things that we're going to enjoy on Thanksgiving.
It is a feast.
Let me see.
We've got Brussels sardines.
Brussels sprouts, butternut squash, apples and spice.
Smoked turkey.
And smoked turkey.
It's going to be delicious.
It's true we have much to be thankful for.
On a professional sense, I mean, there's not many places that you can be that you can actually lay on the ceiling.
And this is one of them.
We're thankful for zero gravity.
It's fantastic.
And, of course, on a personal sense, our family, our friends, those that are lifting up prayers for us and have been, we're grateful for that.
We're grateful for a nation that is a space-faring nation that lets us live free, say what we think is important to say, and so many other things.
So much to be thankful for in this season, to be reminded of that, to have a holiday that celebrates that.
That's something to be thankful for as well.
And so from all of us on the International Space Station, happy days.
Thanksgiving message from the astronauts on the International Space Station.
We're asking you this morning: do you plan to talk politics when you all gather around the table later today?
Robert in Oregon, Republican.
Robert, will you talk politics?
Well, good morning.
I'll be with one of my twin daughters that graduated soon down in Cottage Grove, Oregon, and it'll be a wonderful reunion.
I would ask that, I mean, I don't have to insist, but sometimes you do.
There will be no texting while we're eating.
There will be no, there will be discussions.
The country, unfortunately, has defaulted to texting and emails, virtual discussions as opposed to the true exchange of ideas.
And that's a good place to start when it comes to any discussions.
What's happened to the family?
What has happened to the original idea of Thanksgiving?
I might read the Desiderata to my daughter.
I mean, she knows it.
And those are good words to live by.
And they're timeless.
And that brings us together.
And we talk about anything.
If politics comes up, we'll discuss what issues might exist.
But it'll be in something that we genuinely feel rather than something that we get from a secondary source.
Okay, Robert, that's what we're going to do.
All right.
Robert, a Republican in Oregon.
We'll go to Kent, Ohio.
David, an independent.
Hi, David.
Hi.
And good morning, Greta.
Good morning.
And happy Thanksgiving.
Same to you.
Yes, I will be talking politics.
And I'm 70 years old.
I cut my political teeth, if you will, on the Vietnam War.
And I was, you know, very much listening to what the media was saying about the war.
But when I began to do research, I began to discover the colonial history behind what was happening in the whole world.
I mean, we ourselves were born out of a rebellion against colonialism.
So we must never forget the values that are right in our Declaration of Independence.
You know, and I'll just briefly state them.
We hold these truths to be self-evident.
All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inequal rights.
Among these are love, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
So we must never forget that.
And this was written at a time when our African-American brothers and sisters were called less than whole people.
They weren't given their freedom.
And then women, women, obviously very intelligent, just as intelligent as men, were not allowed to vote until 1920.
So we have to realize that we set these ideals, we set the bar high, which is good.
But the reason we fall short is not because our ideals are wrong, but because the hearts of men haven't changed.
I'm talking about human beings.
And we would do well to remember the words of Jesus who said, you can't serve two masters, God and money.
Now, when it comes to the civility, I think that's very important that we be civil with people who may not agree with us.
But civility starts at the top.
So we have to ask ourselves if somebody's calling, you know, for example, just because I'm anti-greed from Wall Street doesn't make me anti-American.
I think it makes me pro-American because I'm trying to be an American who lives up to high ideals.
So the two streets in America, Main Street, where the work gets done, and Wall Street, where the power is, that's the problem.
But it's not an American problem.
Again, it's a human problem.
Each and every country deals with this, you know, the greedy hearts of people that they have to.
Understood, David.
So later on in the Washington Journal, we're going to talk with Alexander Hefner, who's host of Bloomberg's Breaking Bread and PBS's The Open Mind.
On his series, Breaking Bread, he features conversations with politicians in an attempt to forge political unity and civility.
I just want to show you one conversation that he had.
Here's a clip of him talking with Governor Mark Gordon, Republican of Wyoming, about partisanship over steak and potatoes.
Rodeo is a big deal here.
And is it like a baseball game?
You have a hot dog or something like that or chili.
Yeah, you know, I think, yeah, people come and have hot dogs, hamburgers, drink a lot of beer.
And it's good to entertain.
In fact, Tom Glaus, who runs the pro rodeo, told me that he'd just seen some metric that rodeo is the only sport that's growing.
And maybe that's a little bit because of the shows that are on TV.
But, you know, cowboys, cowgirls, there's an ethic to them that I think is about humility.
It's about being tough in difficult circumstances.
And it's maybe something that America remembers.
Integrity.
Yeah.
Something you aren't credited with, but you go to state capitals and break bread with governors.
I think there's more appreciation of that ethos.
Yeah.
Well, I'm specifically interested in your insight into this as someone who isn't financial expert.
It must infuriate you when partisan labels get in the way of making a budget so much so that we are at risk of default or actually default.
It is very frustrating.
And I think we met at a Malcolm Wallop thing a long time ago.
Malcolm was a senator from Wyoming, dear friend of the families.
Al Simpson, terrific guy.
Dick Chini, when he was there, you know, certainly.
These were strong Republicans.
But Mike Kenzie, one of our greatest senators, was dear friends with Ted Kennedy.
And in fact, they were trying to work on how do we reform health care.
It seems to me that there was a time when Republicans and Democrats could sit down and they could have their arguments, but then they would say, we have a job here to do.
You know, instead of product, it's posture.
And frustratingly, it feels like there are pieces of our political apparatus that sort of believe the only way that I can win is if you lose.
From Breaking Bread, Alexander Hefner, who is the host of that show for Bloomberg, he'll join us later on on the Washington Journal to talk about the political divide in this country.
Another clip from that series, here he is talking with Senator Maisie Hirano, Democrat of Hawaii, about working across the aisle.
And this is what she had to say.
Your first bill as a U.S. Senator involved reaching the heart or attempting to reach into the heart of one of your colleagues, right?
Senator Sessions.
You said you.
Oh.
Jeff Session helped me get my first bill through the Senate.
And it was a bill that would help the people of the Philippines because they had had a huge hurricane that struck.
And I wanted to have a bill that would enable people to send money to them and be able to get a tax break from it, even if it was the following year.
So I had to get it done in a pretty fast time.
And I couldn't get the bill out on committee, so I just went to the floor to get a unanimous consent to bring the bill out.
And all it takes is one Republican to come to the floor and object.
I saw Jeff Sessions coming to the floor and he was the designated objector.
But what I did was I went into the Republican spoke room.
We rarely go into each other's cloakroom because that's where we sort of get to make phone calls and do various things.
But I said, Jeff, I know you're here to object to my UC request, but here's why I think this is really important for us to do.
And there's a precedent for this.
And I asked him, why are the Republicans objecting?
He said, well, we don't like these kinds of bills or something like that.
It was pretty lame.
I knew that he thought he would just come down and say, I object, and he would go off.
And then he says something like, well, we need to be consistent.
And I said, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
And I said that why it was important.
But what was really telling was that I literally touched his heart.
And I said, Jeff, something like, Jeff, I know that there's something there, you know.
I'm speaking to this.
He was surprised.
And he said, well, maybe we can work something out.
And we did.
You know, I was touched by that story and felt as though if you made more frequent trips to the Republican cloakroom, you will be warmly received.
You think?
Well, in time and with the kind of commitment that you demonstrated.
But do you think?
It's a little harder these days.
It's quite divisive.
From the Breaking Bread series, Alexander Hefner talking with Senator Maisie Hirano over Japanese food there.
An effort to have a conversation with politicians about civility and unity.
That is what the series is all about.
We'll talk more about it coming up here on the Washington Journal.
Part of that conversation this morning is with all of you as well.
Do you plan to talk politics?
And if so, what's your strategy for talking politics on this Thanksgiving Day?
Chuck in Monroe, Connecticut, Democratic Caller.
Hi, Chuck.
Hi.
We actually have two Thanksgiving dinners, one today and one tomorrow.
Okay.
Today there probably won't be too much talking about politics.
It'll be sports and maybe the Godfather trilogy.
But tomorrow there will be.
We're all Democrats.
My mother died on November 22nd of this year.
And she was a lifeline Democrat.
She voted for FDR.
She was 98 when she died.
And one of the problems that she always had is the Republican presidents right before the Depression raised the terrorist, Coolidge and Hoover.
And that is what triggered, in many people's minds, the Great Depression.
So because it curtails international trade.
And the more international trade there is, the healthier the world economy is.
And so we're all singing out the same hymn book tomorrow, but not so much today.
So we won't really bring that topic so Chuck, I'm sorry to hear about your mom.
When you think about her this Thanksgiving day, what about our government would she be thankful for?
She would be thankful for helping to kill the Nazis.
My father fought in World War II.
And he fought in the Japanese theater.
But the Nazis she took personally, that's the reason her family moved here was because of anti-Semitism in Europe.
So she would be thankful for that.
She would be thankful for America being on the right side and helping to defeat the Nazis.
Chuck in Monroe, Connecticut, Democratic caller.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Vincent in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Republican.
Hi, Vincent.
Hello, Greta.
Hello, Greta.
Morning.
Can I ask you a quick question?
We have to moderator, Jesse.
Jesse.
Black man.
Yep.
I know who you're talking about.
Yeah, he doesn't work here anymore.
He was a guest host.
Oh, a guest.
Well, here's my answer to the question.
It could go either way.
It could be verbal arguments going on, but I've already discussed it with the fee people.
We're having three Thanksgivings, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
Okay.
And it shouldn't be too bad, but we've already discussed it.
So what did you discuss?
Do you have ground rules?
No, that I voted for Trump and Jennifer voted for Kamala.
Okay.
So you've already discussed who you voted for.
You don't think this will get in the way of your Thanksgiving dinner then?
No.
All right.
Leo, Scottsdale, Arizona, Independent.
Hi, Leo.
Leo in Scottsdale.
It's your turn.
All right, Leo, mute that television, all right?
All right, I'll move on to Rhonda, who's in Johnston, Pennsylvania, independent.
Yes, our family, our whole family, voted for Trump this year.
And we'll be everyone left at the dinner table because my daughter died of fentanyl.
And she had substance abuse during the Trump administration.
And he made it easier for her to get treatments.
And when Biden and them got back in the administration, they had more fentanyl and they made it seem like it's okay to do drugs.
And now our family is going to die.
My daughter, because of the Biden administration, and she died from substance abuse.
But when Trump was there, we were hopeful because she looked at it like it was a bad thing.
And we got her in treatment when Trump was in.
And Trump gave us hope.
My son got a really good job when Trump was in.
And we're just very thankful that Trump's here.
And our families did awful under the Biden administration.
And my kids were having problems in school over the Biden administration with the DEI stuff and fights in school.
And Trump's finally bringing hope to the world.
Rhonda.
Not God.
We're thankful for Jesus.
Rhonda.
Trump is bringing everything back.
Rhonda there in Pennsylvania.
I'm sorry to hear about your loss, Rhonda, to you.
You and your family.
Understood.
Alfonso in Virginia, independent caller.
We'll hear from you next.
Alfonso.
Hello, how are you doing?
Morning.
Good morning.
I was amused when I saw the lady in the space shuttle with a hair flying.
That is a wonderful hair, I wanted to see.
That's all.
All right.
Well, Alfonso, are you planning to talk politics today?
No, ma'am.
I disagree with all that stuff here.
I can't do it.
Okay.
And why not?
Because I'm independent.
You're independent, so you don't talk politics?
Well, I was between a rock and a hard place between Trump and Camela Harris because I don't believe in all this stuff.
They need to get together like everybody's talking about.
We don't need that aggravated attention.
Let's enjoy ourselves.
I'm having corn and shin for Thanksgiving.
I can't afford a turkey.
You can't afford turkey.
Well, there's a piece.
Yeah, you might be interested in this piece in the New York Times this morning.
A turkey for $95.
Why it's so costly.
That turkey, the turkeys that Trollbridge Farm in New York sells for Thanksgiving, broad-based whites, and most weigh between 16 and 19 pounds.
They cost $5 per pound.
And this is the New York Times this morning.
The farm buys the turkeys from a hatchery as babies for $10 each.
They spend their first five weeks in a brooder that keeps them warm and heats them up.
Electricity costs about $60 each month.
It costs about $18 to $25 per week on the farm for bedding.
There's a lot of work involved is the quote here from the farmer.
I'm not getting paid $15 to $20 an hour to do this.
That cost per bird, it doesn't pay me minimum wage.
So what goes into the costs of your turkey?
The New York Times breaks it down this morning in the paper.
Kyle in Clearwater, Florida, Democratic caller.
Kyle, happy Thanksgiving to you.
We're talking about politics.
Will it be discussed today at the table?
Happy Thanksgiving to you, and thank you for being here.
I think so.
I think politics, there's nothing wrong with the discussion of these things.
I think it's how we talk about them.
And I would say seeing if we go back to that Trump statement on Thanksgiving where he accused half the country of being fascist, idiots, whatever he calls it, and people think that we're going to come together, I think are being misled because people voted for the fight.
So I think let's accept the fight, but let's learn how to fight better.
So that's kind of the goal.
All right.
So is that what you'll discuss at the Thanksgiving table?
Is how to do that?
Limited audience that would be inflamed by it, but we certainly celebrate our neighbors who have very different views.
Although we can't bring it up because it usually becomes actually another story, but we'll enjoy Thanksgiving.
All right.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Let's go to Los Angeles.
Democratic caller there.
Hello.
Hi, how are you today?
Doing well.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Happy Thanksgiving to you.
Yes.
We will be discussing politics at the table because it is imperative that we see the reason why Donald Trump won was white supremacy.
That is more important to get brown people out of the country than to make their lives better.
That white supremacy.
How do you know that that's the motivation of everyone that voted for President Trump?
They have been manipulated.
This goes back to the beginning of this country that the rich have always manipulated the poor and stopped black and brown people and white people from working together so they can manipulate them.
And if we work together, it's more of us than the rich.
So we would have an advantage.
So the rich are always working to keep the poor at odds with each other.
Okay.
And we'll leave it there, caller of the Washington Times, this morning with a couple of pieces that you may be interested in.
This one on the border from the front page of the newspaper and inside to the jump page, they write, Mr. Trump has been less overt about his plans for DACA that is known as the deferred action for childhood arrivals.
It protects some 600,000 illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and who have pursued an education and kept a relatively clean record.
In his first term, Mr. Trump tried to phase out DACA, but at another point, he proposed granting DACA recipients full citizenship rights as part of a deal with Congressional Democrats to fund his border wall and change the legal immigration process.
So the Washington Times this morning taking a look at the President-elect's plans on border and immigration policy.
There's also this from the Washington Times politics section this morning.
Mexico says the President-elect's tariff plan would kill 400,000 jobs in the United States.
Washington Times, if you want to read more.
George in Georgia, Democratic caller.
George, good morning to you.
Will you talk politics today?
Good morning.
Yes, we will be talking politics, religion, before the table, at the table, watching the games.
But for those that prayed that Trump would become president, I pray that God would open their eyes and their hearts and their minds to the truth about Trump.
Unfortunately for me, God answered both our prayers.
I guess in order for them to realize who Trump really is, he has to be president again and show us.
George's thoughts there.
Democratic caller in Georgia.
Paul is in Terryville, Connecticut, independent.
Hi, Paul.
Hi, dear.
Now, why would I want to talk politics with my best friends and neighbors when I have C-SPAN?
True.
You can get it out.
You can get it out all now before you go to the dinner table.
No, I'm still left over from yesterday's question.
No to loyalty tests.
No to leaders who sympathize with sex abusers.
No to Juliana's face on recruitment posters.
Leadership starts at the top.
However, politics are all politics are local.
Well, most are.
I mean, if you have someone polluting your river, you know, outside your door and you're sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner like the pilgrims, and, you know, your health is going to be and your safety is going to be compromised.
Is that politics or is it pure survival?
So, you know, we can't, linguistics are a terrible thing because it makes us think, I think the question makes us think we shouldn't be talking about issues that affect us like, you know, the war machine, the out-of-control, militaristic opinions that come into our local communities and then it's replicated.
I mean, people, vigilanteism is alive and well.
If we don't stand up to it, it doesn't matter whether you're sitting down for dinner or standing and eating on the run or not having food at all to eat.
Does that be, is that a political issue or is it a survival issue?
All right, Paul Spots there in Connecticut.
Eric in Washington, D.C., Democratic caller.
Hi, Eric.
Good morning.
Morning.
Young lady, I just want to say is, I mean, you remember when John McCain told that elderly lady at that town hall that, no, ma'am, that's not true.
You could have said that to that lady that kept blaming her daughter's addiction on the Biden administration.
Your addiction is your addiction, and that's not right for you to just sit there and let that lady do that.
That's not fair.
You know, I mean, we have to speak the truth.
You know, when people got COVID, they got COVID because they didn't follow the rules on how to stay away from it.
And I just don't even think that's right.
You know, because we have to speak the truth.
All right.
So, Eric, will you speak the truth today at the dinner table?
My family, we're all supporters of Harris.
So we're just going to stand and see what happens, man.
All you can do is go out and vote and do what you feel is right.
Is it too early to talk 2028 at the table today?
No, because it's not, we still got to stop.
We got to still have to deal with the four years this great come down the pipe.
And the thing about it is, once you make your bed, you got to lay in it.
We choose to go the route of our country choose the route to go with Donald Trump.
And we just got to see what plays out on it, man.
You know, with the immigrants, man, it's so many people work in these industries that there is no way we will survive.
You know, so just let it play out.
You know, but please, you know, all right, Eric, I'm going to leave it at that point.
We're going to take a short break on this Thanksgiving morning.
We're going to stay on this theme of bridging the political divide with our next two guests.
Coming up, a conversation with Ben Klutze, Executive Director of George Mason University's Mercatus Center.
We'll talk about his work with the center's program on pluralism and civil exchange and his role in producing the documentary that we showed you, Undivide Us.
And then later, television host and author Alexander Heffner discusses his program, Breaking Bread, which seeks to promote civility among politicians and Americans one meal at a time.
We'll be right back.
According to Brown University professor Corey Brettsnyder, the following presidents in history threatened democracy.
Here are his words from the introduction of his book, The Presidents and the People.
Quote, John Adams waged war on the national press, prosecuting as many as 126 who dared criticize him.
James Buchanan colluded with the Supreme Court to deny constitutional personhood to African Americans.
Andrew Johnson urged violence against his political opponents.
Woodrow Wilson nationalized Jim Crow by segregating the federal government.
And finally, Richard Nixon committed criminal acts ordering the Watergate break-in.
Corey Bretschnider teaches constitutional law and politics at his Providence, Rhode Island-based Brown University.
Brown University professor Corey Bretschneider with his book, The Presidents and the People, Five Leaders Who Threatened Democracy and the Citizens Who Fought to Defend It on this episode of BookNotes Plus with our host Brian Lamb.
Book Notes Plus is available on the C-SPAN Now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Attention middle and high school students across America.
It's time to make your voice heard.
C-SPAN Student Cam Documentary Contest 2025 is here.
This is your chance to create a documentary that can inspire change, raise awareness, and make an impact.
Your documentary should answer this year's question.
Your message to the president.
What issue is most important to you or your community?
Whether you're passionate about politics, the environment, or community stories, StudentCam is your platform to share your message with the world.
With $100,000 in prizes, including a grand prize of $5,000, this is your opportunity not only to make an impact, but also be rewarded for your creativity and hard work.
Enter your submissions today.
Scan the code or visit studentcam.org for all the details on how to enter.
The deadline is January 20th, 2025.
Washington Journal continues.
Welcome back to the Washington Journal.
We are talking about the political divide in this country and how to bridge it.
Joining us this morning is Ben Clutze, Executive Director with George Mason University's Mercatus Center.
Mr. Clutze, you're also a producer of a documentary, Undivide Us.
Tell us about this project.
Well, thanks for having me.
Undivide Us is a documentary that's a collaborative effort, actually.
Christy Kendall, who's a filmmaker, Carrie Conco, who is at Iron Light currently, and Tony Woodleaf, who is at the State Policy Network.
And, you know, we started to talk about this idea about a year and a half ago when I was working on, you know, pluralism and civil exchange at the Mercatus Center.
Tony had written a book called I Citizen, which challenges the narratives around ways in which, you know, people talk about our levels of polarization in the country.
And as we were talking, we both got connected to Krista Kendall, who's a filmmaker.
And she said, hey, this would look like the kind of thing that we should maybe test out.
You know, how truly divided are Americans.
And so we set out to go across the country.
We go to Pittsburgh, we go to Atlanta, we go to Phoenix and talk to average Americans and see if we can talk about some of the most difficult issues of our time, whether it's the Second Amendment, education, immigration, abortion, or what have you.
And it was a fascinating discovery.
At the Mercatus Center, you know, I ran the program on pluralism and civil exchange.
And the goal is to explore the question, how can we live together and coexist amidst the deep divides and differences.
So this project was really an effort to explore that question more and more.
Let's show our viewers who may have missed it in our first hour the trailer to this documentary, Undivide Us.
for the left and its minions in the media.
Just how bad is the GOP?
You called it two Americas that are divided.
How do civil wars get started and how close do you think is the United States?
These screens that are in our homes and in our pockets, they put forth this story about America that we're on the edge of civil war, that we can't get along and the danger is that we might start to believe that.
Perhaps if we created the opportunity for folks to come together, giving them an opportunity to talk and explore ideas on controversial issues.
Could you really get regular people from all kinds of different lives, really put them together and get them talking about hard stuff?
Like, is that doable?
I think we should try.
We've got just a remarkable opportunity to kind of create something special that nobody's ever done before.
We'll pick an issue.
We know there's dozens of controversial issues.
And then we'll go out and find people who are leaning one direction and we'll find folks who are leaning the other direction.
Leaning Democratic.
I'm independent.
I'm a moderate Republican.
Left of liberal.
I got them out.
How deep does it go?
Does the average person feel that anger all the time?
Or is it the political elites who profit from anger and division?
Are they the ones who are the problem?
Well, Ben, going to be bringing in some regular people and asking about some tough issues, and you're going to be there at the table with them.
If we don't get regular citizens talking again, disagreeing, and doing it respectfully, doing it way better than Washington does, it seems like there's a lot at stake.
If we don't figure that out, we're going to jump in together, my friend.
Undivide us, a new documentary starring Ben Clutze, who's on your screen right now this morning, and he is here to take your questions and your comments about political divide in this country.
Mr. Clutze, how divided are Americans?
That's a very interesting question.
I think that when political scientists talk about, you know, polarization or the extent to which we are divided, I think there are different categories.
There is political polarization, which is the ideological distance between the two parties.
And sometimes these can be stark, whether it's pro-life or pro-choice, pro-Second Amendment or not.
And over the past, you know, couple of decades, I think there is some interesting data that shows that Americans have not differed that much on these.
And if anything at all, maybe we've moved a little bit closer on some of these issues, especially on things like the Second Amendment and things like climate change.
But what has really changed is what political scientists call affective polarization.
And that is how we feel about each other has changed.
It's no longer that, you know, you hold those views and I disagree with them.
And that's quite all right.
We can still move along and get along.
But it's that your views are dangerous.
You're a threat to my existence.
And so I ratchet up by the level of extremism of my views.
And we get into this very, very difficult sense that, you know, you might be a threat, you might be an enemy.
And I think that's where the difficulty is.
And across the board, our polarization is affecting how we can engage and do things together.
It's affecting how much we trust each other.
I think across Western democracies, the United States has seen the steepest decline in social trust.
And I think that that is a very difficult place to be.
So with Undivide Us, did you seek out to try to bridge this divide?
And what did you find out?
Yeah, so when we walk into these conversations, we say to them, and we truly mean this, that we're not trying to change people's minds.
We are trying to understand where Americans are across the board on issues.
And it was really interesting to discover that people from very different backgrounds, very strong views and opinions on issues, come into these conversations with a little bit of trepidation, a little bit of fear about what they might get into.
And then after about two hours of talking, folks don't want to leave.
They are relieved and excited and still engaged.
And it seemed to me that people are yearning for these kinds of conversations.
So I was really thrilled with what we discovered.
When we watched that trailer this morning, you heard Anderson Cooper ask the question, are we close to a civil war in this country?
How would you answer that?
I'd say some experts say that the levels of polarization are pretty close to where we were during the previous wars in the country.
But I think that that's not the case.
I don't see that we are close to civil war at all.
If anything at all, I see Americans, most Americans, 70 to 80% of Americans, who want to look for ways to engage across differences and connect with other Americans across the aisle.
Now, definitely, there are some of us who have very, very strong views.
We don't want to be in the same room with others who have different beliefs, but that's not the majority of Americans.
And so I'm hopeful.
So what is at stake if we can't come together?
I think that there are so many important decisions for us to make, so many policy questions for us to address.
If we cannot come together, I think it just makes it difficult for us to solve our problems that will affect the next generation and generations after that.
So we have to try.
And are you talking about the big policy debates in this country?
That's right.
There are national issues.
There are local issues.
I think that sometimes we get too consumed with national issues that we neglect what's happening locally.
I think there are so many important issues and questions at the local levels that we can all get involved with and engage and participate.
Let's get our viewers involved in this conversation.
We'll go to Karen, who's in Alabama, Republican.
Hi, Karen.
You're up first.
Good morning.
Hey.
Hey, good morning.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
And I just have to say, I disagree with everything that you just said the last 15 minutes while I was on hold.
But what I wanted to point out was I don't think it's to divide so much of the American people.
I mean, it is, but what's dividing us is what the political and global elite in D.C. are telling us.
And if people would just, if the American people would realize that if we come together, because we are the ones who are supposed to be running this country, and tell our representatives, here's what we want you to do, I think it would be a lot better.
But as a Republican, I voted for Trump.
We have been called everything you can think of in the last four years, trying to tell us Trump was a racist, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
You know the name.
So I think if people would just understand that he's an outsider, he's not part of that group.
And he's going to come in and fix America.
That's my belief.
But I think if we just give him a chance at the end of all this, he's going to help the American people.
And remember, he has a family, too.
So he has a stake in all this as well.
All right, Karen, let's take the first part of your comments when you talked about the political and global elite in Washington, D.C. Mr. Klutze?
Yes.
Karen, I don't disagree with you on that first point about the ways in which politicians are fostering divisions across the board.
And not just politicians, but in certain elite circles, obviously in journalism, there's a lot of polarization there as well.
But when you talk to regular Americans, the thing that you see, the challenge that you see is that we are overestimating how extreme we are because of what we're getting with our information and what we are seeing with the political class.
And we see the fights they have in Congress.
We see the fights they have on our TV screens.
And we all have this sort of distaste for it.
And I completely understand that.
But when regular Americans come together and they actually have real conversations, they realize that they actually do have a lot more in common.
What role did misinformation or disinformation play in the conversations that you had for this documentary?
I think it plays a big role.
People have, you know, they go to different places for their information.
And the different, you know, places and channels that we tune into, you know, prioritize different things.
They highlight different things.
They gin up different things.
And oftentimes when people are referring to issues from those places, they're talking past each other.
And that becomes a big challenge.
That was the case, especially on the topic of education that came up a lot.
What are kids being taught in schools?
You know, depending on where you get your news and information, you're going to have a different impression about that.
So yeah, it definitely plays a role.
I'd say our information ecosystem does affect how we see the world, how we see each other.
How was it addressed in the conversations that you had?
Yeah, I think we take a step back and try to explore what people have experienced themselves.
So, you know, a teacher will talk about what they are experiencing in the classroom.
And, you know, someone else will talk about what their friends are saying or what their kids are experiencing.
And because I think it's difficult to sort of fact check every single avenue and platform that someone cites.
But the goal was to really just have the conversation and listen to one another.
And, you know, we go through our rules of the game and our principles.
And that always provides a good sort of framework for having a robust conversation.
Andrew in Perlin, Texas, Democratic Caller.
Hi, Andrew.
Welcome to the conversation.
Hi, good morning.
Thanks so much for having me and happy Thanksgiving to you both.
Same to you.
I called to just share a little experience and make a couple comments.
So I live here in Texas.
My surrounding area is sort of Democrat in the Houston area.
But as you all know, Texas is a deep red Republican state.
I've been a Democratic voter since the George W. Bush days, who lived here in Texas.
And Texas people were very proud of him.
So I've kind of been entrenched sort of my whole life.
One of the things that I've done to kind of cope with the political divide and bridging that divide is just to find things in common with people other than politics, you know, whatever that may be.
One of the things that we've drifted into as a nation is not just political divide, but cultural divide based on politics.
So if you're a conservative, then you like X, Y, and Z.
And if you're a liberal, then you like X, Y, and Z.
And I think one of the things you mentioned earlier, sir, was that people are so much more dynamic than that, and that we have to look past that and look at each individual person.
You know, we're Americans, and individualism is a huge deal to us.
So I think we have to not let folks divide us, and we have to find some way to come together.
And if that means moving past politics and getting into policy, then I think that would be good for everybody.
Let's take that differentiation that you just made, Andrew: politics versus policy.
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
We are seeing our divisions along political lines far more than any other time in our history.
If you take marriage, for instance, I think from the 1960s, 70s up until now, we've seen a 50% decline in inter-party marriages.
You know, negative attitudes towards inter-party marriages is higher than interfaith or interracial or anything else.
And so politics is becoming a more magnified sort of identity for a lot of people, increasingly so.
And as our caller said, the more you get into the real issues, the questions, the policies, again, not only at the national level, but at the local level, you begin to realize that, you know, there are a lot of things that we share in common, and, you know, we have solutions that might work for all of us.
We also have to learn to do things beyond politics and policy.
I think that one of the things that we could do is to foster more civic friendships, do things with other people that sometimes have nothing to do with politics or that our politics are not important in those circumstances and experiences, whether it's some volunteering activity or something like that, sports.
I think that it's important for us as citizens to get together and do things to learn more about each other.
We'll go to Warren, Ohio.
Jack is watching us there on our line for Republicans.
Hi, Jack.
Hello, hi, and happy Thanksgiving to both of you guys.
Good morning.
Okay, good morning.
Hey, I just want to ask this man.
I'm a foundational black American, and I want to know: did he go Jack?
We're listening to you.
Just go ahead.
Don't listen to your television, please.
Okay, I'm a foundational black American, and I wanted to ask this black man.
Did he go talk to Chicago, black Chicagos, and to Sister Carter Trust in Chicago?
All those foundational black American and Black American women there.
Did he go to New York City and find out what's going on with the foundational black Americans there?
We are called aka FBAs and listen to Black Alpha Network.
But I want to ask him, you know, we are tired of people looking like him not come and asking a real question.
When he knows, what are the real questions, Jack?
The real questions is he should have been going talking to all these black mayors that's been selling us foundational black Americans out all over this country.
You know, and they're just not putting in.
It's these politicians, what they're doing.
They're the ones that are dividing us.
And they're not doing right by us.
And we want to be treated the way we need to be treated.
But we got people like this black man is not coming and acting and reaching.
Well, hold on, Jack.
You don't know that.
Hold on.
Let's give him a chance to respond to you.
Mr. Klutze.
Right.
I think, so no, I did not go to Chicago, but we went to Atlanta.
We went to Phoenix.
We went to a number of other places.
And I've gone across the country.
I just got back from Milwaukee speaking to people of all racial groups and backgrounds.
And I think that it is, you know, he makes an important point about politicians, you know, fostering a lot of divisions.
You know, honestly, there's just plenty of blame to go around.
And we have to get to a place where we can foster more civility across differences.
We have an opportunity to engage with each other, especially on Thanksgiving.
It's an important tradition where Americans come together, families, communities, loved ones come together.
It's a real opportunity to talk about some of the things that we care deeply about.
It doesn't always have to be about politics, but it can go there.
And we can do that respectfully and with civility.
Alex in Brooklyn, Democratic caller.
Hi, Alex.
Good morning.
Thanksgiving.
Thank you for taking my call.
Yeah, I don't even know where to begin.
I mean, we could just talk about the last caller, you know, foundational black man, you know, and his frustrations.
You know, I hear people talk about, you know, that we're better than this, that we are somehow, you know, we should be beyond politics and we should find civility.
And Democrats always talk about, you know, if they go high, we go low.
But the reality is that this is what we are.
And I think that what Trump was able to do is go down to the base level of what people really are.
And people are really just transactional.
I personally feel, and I think this is the reality, people don't care about democracy.
Excuse me.
People in this country really don't care about what democracy actually means.
We've become an attention economy, an ultra hyper-individualistic society where people just don't care.
What I care about is how cheap my eggs are, the bit of comfort that I get from the life that I have.
I don't really care about my privacy.
People give up their privacy with TikTok and Facebook and the comfort of online banking.
And so people just don't care.
All right, well, let's take that notion.
Ben Klutze, would you say after having these conversations across the country that this is who we are, he said.
That's his quote.
This is who we are.
We're transactional.
We don't care, really care about democracy.
I think that it's a big country of 330 million people, and people care about lots and lots of different things.
And I think that it's very difficult when someone votes for a particular politician, they are voting for different combination of things that we may not always know.
That's why I think having important conversations with people is helpful.
We can stay curious about one another and learn more from each other.
So it's hard to say.
Now, he makes a good point about to what extent do we care about engaging in the political process?
When you look at primary elections, Maybe about 20-25 percent of Americans participate in primaries.
That's unfortunate.
I think we could encourage more people to participate in primaries to vote for more options across the board.
But I think it's separate from saying that Americans do not care at all.
I think people care.
We just care about different things and we prioritize different things.
And because we, you know, especially at the national level, we only have two options, or, you know, we have some third-party options as well.
But in many ways, those are few.
So they end up putting all their chips in either one or two options.
So.
Ben Klutze, for those at home who are gearing up for the conversations that will come later today about politics around the Thanksgiving table or are dreading them, what's your advice?
Well, I would say that, you know, enjoy each other.
Enjoy family.
Enjoy friends.
Thanksgiving is one American tradition that brings people together.
So have fun with friends and family.
If you must talk about politics or anything that is controversial, here are three principles that I think would be helpful.
The first is respect.
And the idea is that we're one another's dignified equals.
As a country of self-governing equals, we have to engage each other with respect.
The second is authenticity.
We can't mask our views.
We can't pretend to be something we're not.
We all have very strong views and opinions.
We should be able to share those, but do that respectfully.
And finally, curiosity.
We want to treat each other as interesting mysteries to uncover and ask questions, fundamental questions, not in a combative way, but in ways that foster curiosity and allow us to learn a lot about each other.
So engage with respect, with authenticity, and with curiosity.
Yeah, that I believe will help foster good conversation.
John in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, independent.
Hi, John.
John, in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, independent.
You are on the air.
Good morning to you.
Yes, thank you, Greta, and happy Thanksgiving to the both of you.
Living in Wisconsin and being a hunter, it's that time of season where we partake in our annual deer hunting season up here in the northern part of the state.
I'm in the southern part right now.
But I hunt with people who have differing political views than I have.
And when I walked into our place where we meet every day and spend our days breaking bread, there was a signposted on the door in all capital letters saying, this is a political free zone.
There will be no discussion about politics on this premise.
Thank you for your respectful understanding.
And I spent four days, and I'm going to spend more time after Thanksgiving in that atmosphere just discussing things that are not political.
And that's what I think.
I don't think that the country is near a civil war.
I think the biggest thing with bridging the political divide is we have to do something about the media on both sides.
I consider myself right-leaning, independent.
And the people that put that notice on the door, I think, are farther to the left than I am.
But we can get together and discuss things without politics coming up.
Now, when I go to Thanksgiving dinner today, if the subject comes up, my brother will say enough, and it just will not be discussed.
We'll talk about football and my hunting experiences and all the animals I saw and didn't see, and I'll have a good day.
John, when you say it's the media on both sides, what are you talking about?
You know, like on MSNBC and CNN, which I watch, you know, they, you know, Trump's a Nazi, you know, and if I voted for Trump, I'm an uneducated, deplorable.
And on the other on the opposite side, you know, the Fox News side and that, which I partake more of in, they overplay, overplay their hand a little bit slightly too on both sides.
I mean, the thing with the people around here, the far right, I'm so against that, marching down the streets with their flags, with their swastikas, and that kind of thing.
And I'm the same on the other end.
I'm a free market capitalist person who paid off my house and I'm living the American dream and just I did not overspend.
I want the government to cut money.
And John spending.
And is that your driving force behind voting for Republicans and President-elect Trump?
I believe it was.
It was the price of goods because I'm retired.
I retired early and was counting on like a 2% annual increase in inflation.
And three weeks after Joe Biden got elected, everything prices started going up.
Illegal migrants started coming towards the country.
So come January 20th, they could walk right in.
And I think things just fell apart.
Okay.
John, I'm going to leave it there in Wisconsin.
Ben Klutze, he says it's the media on both sides.
Yeah, he makes a very good point.
I think that increasingly Americans are actually tracking news and just following the media less and less because they feel like there's just so much negativity and it's not objective anymore and it's just disheartening for them.
So they just completely stay away.
But he made a really good point earlier on about, you know, what he does with folks where politics is, you know, is not talked about, going hunting with friends.
I think that's, you know, to do not hunting necessarily, but you can do anything, bowling or, you know, whatever it is that volunteering to teach kids how to read, what have you.
Anything that allows you to share an experience with other citizens that just has nothing to do with politics or that politics is not relevant in that context is always useful.
And we get to learn a lot more about each other that way rather than learning about each other on the news.
Daytona Beach, Florida.
Cheryl is a Republican, and it's your turn.
Good morning to you.
Hi, good morning, Greta.
Thanks for taking my call.
First of all, the gentleman talks about misinformation, but it's always one way.
Is it not misinformation to call President Trump, his family, and supporters, Nazi, fascist, racist pigs?
So that aside, life is about a heck of a lot more than politics, and I'm really disappointed in C-SPAN, once again, wanting to become this platform.
You could have taken today to spend the entire time talking about the thousands of volunteers out there spending their day, their time, and sometimes their money feeding homeless, all of those poor people suffering in the freezing cold in western North Carolina from these horrible hurricanes.
There are thousands of people in this country who have literally nothing.
They could care less about politics.
They just would like a warm meal and a warm shelter.
And there are thousands of people who go above and beyond that.
And the organizations like the Salvation Army and Franklin Graham, Samaritans Purse, and the thousands of nameless, faceless volunteers who get up every day and help their neighbors.
And I think that's what C-SPAN should have spent a day celebrating those people, not politics.
Well, Cheryl, thanks for the time and have a happy Thanksgiving.
Same to you.
All those across the country who give of themselves and get out of their own heads.
Same to you, Cheryl, and thank you for the feedback.
John in Florida, Independent.
Hi, John.
Hello.
Hi, it's my first time.
Anyway, I think that what we need to focus on is that as in democracy, according to etymology, you have to know your history in order to know your present or your future.
And what happened is that we haven't learned our history.
And it all originated with the Mayflower Compact, where we united.
John, I missed that last part.
What united us?
Yeah, the Mayflower Compact, when they got off the street, they were on the ship.
Everyone on the ship signed the Mayflower Compact so that everyone would live interdependent and independent so that they would have this responsibility.
So what happened is the Indians knew about this.
So that's why they were embracing us.
And we need to embrace what today is all about, is about being with the native Indians who embraced us, and we need to reciprocate.
And a lot of people wouldn't even know.
They just know it's the Indians.
They don't know the tribe because they want the knowledge.
And they brought most of the food.
And the other thing, too, is that people don't know is that Franklin, Benjamin Franklin, was inspired by the Iroquois Indians who were feuding against each other.
And they finally made a treaty amongst themselves.
And that's what inspired Franklin to unite by bringing the colonies together.
All right, John.
Ben Klutze, he says history needs to inform our future.
What would you say on that?
Yeah, it's a good point.
We need to understand our history, you know, the good, the bad, and the ugly, because I think that when we remember certain things, we learn to not repeat the bad stuff.
I agree with that.
But I also think that we have to, you know, figure out how to move forward and move past some of our difficulties, especially so when it comes to Thanksgiving, when we're having our dinners and our conversations while we reflect on the past, I think we also have to talk about how we can increase our bonds of friendship, strengthen our bonds of friendship and community as we go forward.
I think that's really important.
Our guest this morning, Ben Klutze, Executive Director at George Mason University's Mercatus Center, focusing on pluralism and civil exchange in this country, a producer and stars in a new documentary, Undivide Us, about the political divide in this country.
Our guest this morning, and he's taking your questions and your comments.
What surprised you, given all the work you've done in this area?
What surprised you when you did this documentary?
The thing that surprised me the most was the extent to which Americans are yearning for this experience to talk to people who are from different backgrounds and perspectives.
And as I say in the movie, it's almost as though they had had a cathartic experience.
And every time I do this, not just with folks across the country, but with students as well, I do facilitate a lot of conversations with students across the board.
And it's the same experience where they linger, they stay, they exchange phone numbers, they exchange their Twitter handles and Instagram handles and so on, so that they can continue having conversations.
And they connect with one another after these conversations are done.
And it just tells me that there is so much hunger in the country for those types of engagements.
And so I definitely would encourage people to do this, to talk to people who are of different backgrounds and perspectives from you.
And you learn a lot.
They will appreciate you.
You'll appreciate them.
What will people learn about how to talk to one another from this documentary?
Well, one important process or format is reflective listening.
And I think oftentimes we're listening to respond right away, to counter what someone says, but we can listen to understand what someone else is saying.
I think that always makes for a productive conversation.
One thing that we do in the film is to have one person reflect on how someone might come to a different conclusion on a particular issue.
So the facilitator might ask, hey, Greta, why do you think Ben loves dogs?
And so you will truly, really, really try to get in my head a little bit and appreciate how a dog lover loves dogs.
And the same question, vice versa.
Hey, Ben, why do you think Greta loves cats?
And so we get into this place where we try to put ourselves in each other's shoes.
And I think that we can do this beyond these settings.
And you can say to someone, am I hearing you correctly that you're saying that the reason you're for your pro-choice is because of X, Y, and Z.
And make sure that they actually know that you've understood what you're saying.
It doesn't mean you agree with them, but that you actually understand where they're, or at least you see how they're connecting the dots, even if you disagree with them.
Lance, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Democratic Color.
Good morning, Greta.
Good morning, Ben.
Happy Thanksgiving to you both.
Good morning.
I think there's a lot of this in the way we're raised, both the way we're schooled at home and in our institutions.
I mean, I was taught as a child that you don't really know a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
And I believe that's true.
And I found that in my experience, when I was a young man, when I was 16, I left home and traveled around the country.
And around that time, there was a movie that came out called Easy Rider.
And I don't know if you remember it.
I'm a little older than you.
But at the end of it, the two long hairs, which I was, my hair has always been down past my shoulders, are murdered by southerners.
And all my friends were very worried about me.
They said, you're going to get killed.
People are horrible down south.
People don't, those rednecks will kill you.
And I said, no, they're not.
They're just people.
And I traveled all over.
And when I needed a place to stay, I'd walk up to a farmhouse and go, excuse me, sir, I'd like to run some space in your barn if I might, just for a night or so.
I'm traveling around.
And they always invited me into the house to have been with them because I treated them with respect and I met them on their own level.
And we found that we were different in some ways and alike in others.
I think people are too quick to be so sure they're right.
When I'm, you know, it's that old Murphy's law that you think you know what's going on, you think everything's going well, you don't know what the hell's going on.
I mean, if you're so sure that you know what's going on, I think you should examine what you're doing and go, well, maybe I didn't see it all.
If you approach it that way, and if we taught that more in school, that the idea that the ends justify the means is never correct.
How you do things is just as important as what you do.
I think we get a better outcome.
I mean, winning is nice, but it's not the only thing.
And the only thing that really matters in life is people and the relationships you make with them.
All the other things may bring comfort or may bring happiness, but the thing that brings the most joy is relationships with other people.
And I think if people try to realize that even though you disagree with others, that there are real reasons in their lives that have affected them, and this is why they believe that, and not assume that you know it all, I think we'd be much better off.
And I'm wondering if Ben found that in the sessions he had with other people.
I'll take my answer offline and hope you have a great day surrounded by those you love and who love you.
Same to you.
Thank you.
Mr. Klutze.
Yeah, you make great, great points.
Honestly, where you sit is where you stand.
Sometimes our views and perspectives are shaped by our experiences.
And that's something that I think each of us should recognize as we are talking to people and engaging in conversations with others.
It is true that focusing on relationships helps.
That's why at the top I mentioned that you can talk about politics if you want to, but you don't have to.
It's a rare opportunity to come together as family, as loved ones, relatives, what have you.
Focus in those moments together and do the things that you cherish together.
And if politics comes up, by all means, talk about them, but with respect, authenticity, and curiosity.
And folks can also sign the Undivide Us Pledge for Respect.
What is it?
And where can they find it?
It's on the website, undivideusmovie.com.
And you can find the pledge right there.
It just basically says that, you know, you pledge to be respectful in conversations with others.
Ben Klutse, thank you so much for the conversation on this Thanksgiving Day.
We appreciate you and you coming on to talk to our viewers.
Thanks for having me.
Have a good one.
We're going to take a short break.
When we come back, we're going to return to the question we asked all of you earlier.
Do you plan to talk about politics at the Thanksgiving dinner table?
We'll get to that conversation.
Then later, television host and author Alexander Hefner discusses, talks about his program, Breaking Bread, which seeks to promote civility among politicians and Americans one meal at a time.
We'll be right back.
Sunday, on QA, Jochen Jack Werfel, author of My Two Lives, talks about surviving Nazi Germany as a half-Jewish member of the Hitler Youth, the steps taken to conceal his identity, and the day his Jewish mother was arrested by the Gestapo.
As we got out of the subway, which was right around the corner from where my mother lived, where we lived with my mother, I saw all kinds of Gestapo and SS cars in front of the building.
Now, this was a large building.
There were many families in there.
And my brother and I decided that better than going in and going there with all these SS and Gestapo people, we waited on the corner and watched it from there.
And we decided to ask our mother as to why these cars were there and what the Gestapo was doing there once they were to leave.
We would go home and ask our mother.
Well, after a while, all of a sudden, to our surprise, it was my mother.
They were bringing out of the building, put her in one of the Gestapo cars, and they took her away.
Jack Werfel with his book, My Two Lives, Sunday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on C-SPAN's QA.
You can listen to Q&A and all of our podcasts on our free C-SPAN Now app.
Are you a nonfiction book lover looking for a new podcast?
This holiday season, try listening to one of the many podcasts C-SPAN has to offer.
On QA, you'll listen to interesting interviews with people and authors writing books on history and subjects that matter.
Learn something new on Book Notes Plus through conversations with nonfiction authors and historians.
Afterwards, it brings together best-selling nonfiction authors with influential interviewers for wide-ranging hour-long conversations.
And on About Books, we talk about the business of books with news and interviews about the publishing industry and nonfiction authors.
Find all of our podcasts by downloading the free C-SPAN Now app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Washington Journal continues.
Good morning, everyone.
Happy Thanksgiving as we continue here on the Washington Journal on this Thanksgiving day.
We're wondering if you're going to dish up politics at the Thanksgiving dinner table today.
If you are, tell us how you will manage that conversation.
And if you don't want to talk politics, if you're going to avoid it, tell us why.
The phone numbers are on your screen and you can start dialing in.
Before we get to that conversation, Pew Research did a poll and they asked folks: besides eating, what do you plan to do on Thanksgiving this year?
The biggest answer, the largest answer, 35% said they'll watch sports, while another 35% said they'll talk about work or school.
Politics came in third.
26% said they plan to talk about the recent presidential election.
If that includes you, call in this morning and tell us what you plan to talk about with your family.
While we wait for your calls, I want to show you from earlier this week.
President Biden pardoned two turkeys named Peach and Blossom ahead of the Thanksgiving celebration.
This is an annual ceremony.
Here he is from the South Lawn.
The two turkeys are named after a Delaware state flower, the Peach Blossom.
And by the way, Delaware has a long history of growing peaches.
In fact, the peach pie in our state is one of my favorite.
It's a state dessert.
And peach blossom flowers also symbolizes resilience, which is quite frankly fitting for today.
This White House tradition began when turkey was presented to President Truman.
And that president, then President George H.W. Bush, began pardoning turkeys.
In the last four years, I've had the honor to continue that tradition by pardoning peanut butter and jelly, chocolate and chip, Liberty and Bell.
And today, Peach and Blossom will join the free birds of the United States of America.
Born this past July at the Zimmerun Family Farm, raised by the, yeah, I hear you.
Peach wants to speak a little bit here.
Raised by the family with the help of neighborhood children who helped the turkey get ready for this very moment.
According to experts, Peach weighs 41 pounds and loves to eat hot dish and tater chots and cross-country skis.
President Biden from the White House earlier this week, by the way, this annual tradition can be found on our website.
If you go to c-span.org, click on the box at the top of where it says Thanksgiving to read more about the turkey pardoning tradition and see videos of presidential pardons throughout the years and many, many bad presidential puns.
Bobby in Missouri, Democratic caller.
Bobby, will you talk politics today?
Well, we usually talk about everything, but we never get into fights about politics.
And how do you manage that?
Well, I've lived through five Democratic presidents and five Republican presidents.
And whoever wins is your president.
And due the years, haven't had any problems.
What will you discuss about the next administration and the policies that you're expecting?
Which ones?
Well, most people work every day and they're not concerned about all the issues and so forth other than making enough to take care of their families.
So the economy.
The economy.
All right, Bobby in Missouri.
Ron, San Clemente, California, Republican.
Hi, Ron.
Hey, happy Thanksgiving, Greta, and the whole C-SPAN team.
Thank you.
As usual, you guys have done a tremendous job through the whole years, and thanks so much for what you do.
Well, okay, let's first of all say that and qualify it by saying I'm an outlier Republican.
I'm an old Reagan Republican.
So when I say these things, I hope that everybody takes them with The message is supposed to be there.
Number one is congratulations to those that voted for President Trump.
You now have four years of which to figure out whether you did right or wrong.
And the thing about this election, which was interesting, was the fact that there are issues coming up that have nothing to do with name-calling or labeling or anything else.
They have to do with the real world.
And one of the things that we have to worry about is AI taking over on January 31st and the loss of many, many jobs, humanoid robotics, and so on.
That's just one thing.
Then the second thing is cryptocurrency.
If anyone's been following that at all, they know that in the last 12 months, Bitcoin has gone from $25,000 of Bitcoin to $110,000 of Bitcoin.
That's why you see Elon Musk jumping up and down with the Trump administration.
So we may be going away from American currency completely.
The third thing, of course, is going to be what impact this tremendous tariff concept by the Trump administration is going to have on our whole society.
We may wind up paying $10 a roll for toilet paper because of these tariffs.
Who knows?
Maybe it'll all come out fine.
Then we've got the immigrant issue, and they're going to get rid of all these immigrants and so on.
And when they do that, we have problems getting our crops in.
So it goes on from there.
And then, of course, you know, if you think about these issues, these are issues that really have nothing to do with whether you're a Republican or Democrat.
It has to do with common sense.
So I'm hopeful, you know, I mean, even an eight-day clock is, a broken eight-day clock is still right twice a day.
So maybe the Trump administration will be lucky.
Although they're putting Chucko the Clown in charge of FEMA or somewhere, I have no idea what they're going to do.
And that's kind of an in-your-face thing that's a bothersome issue.
But having said all that, I'm really hopeful for the next four years.
I want all the people that voted for Trump to take responsibility for that vote.
And we're very happy about it.
All right, Ron, Washington Times, Mexico says Trump's tariff plan would kill 400,000 jobs in the United States.
While tariffs hurt foreign countries by making their products more expensive and harder to sell in the United States, foreign countries don't pay the tariffs directly to the United States Treasury.
Companies pay the levies and decide whether to pass along the cost to consumers in the form of higher prices.
It is unclear if Mr. Trump will follow through on his threat or if he is trying to compel policy outcomes before he is inaugurated.
Washington Times this morning.
Mustafa and Jackson, Michigan Independent, good morning to you.
Are you talking politics today during Thanksgiving?
I am happy Thanksgiving.
Firstly, though, as a proud U.S. Army veteran and a proud foundation of black American ancestors whose ancestors built this country, I didn't appreciate you cutting off the FBA caller earlier.
I think the previous FBA caller's point was the dominant society like yourself has figured out if they put recent immigrants with melanated skin to speak for FBAs, they can manipulate our narrative.
But they do not speak for us.
As far as talking politics today, if politics come up, I'll steer it towards three issues.
Excuse me.
Those are lineage-based cash reparations for a foundation of black americans, an anti-black hate crime bill, and lastly, stopping and deporting the Harris Biden illegal economic aliens.
Illegal immigration is genocide for the FBA community.
Thank you for taking my call.
We'll go to Charlotte, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Republican.
Your turn.
Good morning.
Thank you.
Good morning, Charlotte.
At our house, we talk more about history of things.
And for example, the Republican Party was created in 1854 as the Anti-Slavery Party.
And the first 23 black representatives were all Republicans, 21 in the House and two in the Senate.
And the first black Democrat was not voted in until 1934.
And also, our family was doing research, and we found out that the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery, was supported 100% by Republicans and 23% by Democrats.
The 14th Amendment, which gave citizenship to freed slaves, was supported 94% by Republicans and 0% by Democrats.
And the 15th Amendment, the right to vote for all, was voted on 100% by Republicans and 0% by the Democrats.
And the Democrats were the ones who created the Jim Crow laws, the KKK, and Planned Parenthood, which were done to exterminate the blacks.
This is history, and these are things that I wish some of your minority callers would understand.
The Republicans are not against the minorities.
The Republicans were the ones that gave you the abolished slavery, gave you the right to vote and citizenship for the freed slaves.
All right, Charlotte there in Indiana talking about history, and that is what she plans to talk about at the Thanksgiving table.
Gary in Minnesota, Independent.
Good morning, everybody.
I just say hello to all the veterans and all the ones that were fighting and all the ones that are overseas and all and stuff.
Happy Thanksgiving.
And we're going to talk a little bit about how the voting came out and stuff.
And I just like to say that I hope Trump does okay.
I'm independent.
I wore for common sense.
Like when Biden was letting all these people, I think I was terribly wrong because they should have just made some kind of a law that they make so many can come in every year because there's not that many people that need jobs.
I know we need jobs, but we don't need thousands and millions of people coming in at one time.
And I think tell everybody happy Thanksgiving.
I like this channel and I watch it every day.
Thank you very much.
Well, we are grateful for that, Gary, for all you and others that watch C-SPAN here every day, including the Washington Journal and those that call in.
And even if you don't, if you just watch us every day, we certainly appreciate that and are grateful for your support.
Coming up on the Washington Journal, Alexander Hefner is going to be with us.
He's the host of Bloomberg's Breaking Bread and PBS's The Open Mind.
And he'll continue this conversation that we're having with all of you today about the political divide.
From his show, Breaking Bread, I want to show you a recent conversation he had about national security with Senator Jerry Moran, a Republican of Kansas.
They were talking over chili and milkshakes.
We live at a time when there are simultaneous geopolitical crises.
And you've appropriated monies for the military and defense.
And you also sit on the intelligence committee.
From just a domestic security perspective, are you concerned we're more vulnerable now than we were at any point since 9-11?
As, you know, if Americans, lay people, if I were to read the intelligence report that you have access to, would I be freaking out?
Our national security is at risk.
The future of our country and what our children, grandchildren, and people we don't even know will experience is determined by decisions we make today.
It's been a long time in our nation in which the forces against us are so well allied.
Russia, Iran, terrorism, China.
It just comes together with a real threat.
It's one of the arguments I make to my colleagues and one of the suggestions I offer to my constituents is maybe this is the time to set aside some of those differences that we fight about and work together because our nation is in jeopardy from a national security perspective.
The world is a very challenging place.
Those reports, if you could read them, I think would, just like they do me, keep you awake at night worrying about what we face.
Does it make you feel like we're in 1940?
Yes, we have been a superpower for a long time.
For a while, we were the really only superpower, particularly after the demise of the Soviet Union, although we discovered that they were not as super as was thought.
And now China is what they call a near peer, meaning that we're close in their capabilities and they are devoting a lot more resources to their national security, or maybe it's to their ability to change the world than we are to defend ourselves or to protect the world order.
And by that, I mean freedom, liberty, democracy.
From the series Breaking Bread, it's conversations with politicians in an attempt to forge political unity and civility.
We're going to talk more about it coming up here on the Washington Journal.
But do you agree there that when it comes to national security, or should that be the motivating issue that brings us together, that unites us in this country because of the threats that we face from countries like China?
Mike in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, Independent.
Hi, Mike.
Hi, how are you this morning?
I'm doing well, Mike.
You have got to mute that television, all right?
All right, let me do it right now.
All right.
Then go ahead with your comments.
Well, first and foremost, I'd like to say happy Thanksgiving to America.
I'm an avid T-Spam follower, and I love this platform.
What I would like to say, I don't plan to bring up politics during this holiday season and dinner.
What I plan to do is what I do during the course of my life.
I'm a Vietnam-era veteran.
I'm a black man.
And in my business, I deal with all types of people because I'm in the car industry.
And what I try to do is when I talk to people, I try to sit down and say, hey, listen, if you can have enough patience to sit down and talk to people long enough, you'll find out that you have a lot more in common than you have differences.
And I think that's what America should try to do.
Just sit down and talk to people regardless of what color you are, what history you have, whether you're Democrat, Republican, or Independent, and just have a common sense.
And you find out that you have more in common than you have differences.
And the main thing that I'm going to express to my family is: regardless of who's in power or who's the president, I'm a God-fearing man, and I believe that I'm going to teach my children to pray for that person, pray for our leaders, and pray for the entire world that good decisions will be made for the common good of all man.
And I'd just like to say happy Thanksgiving, America.
All right, Mike.
DeAndre in Baltimore, Republican, your turn.
Good morning.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you for taking my call.
So the main thing I'm going to talk about at the dinner table tonight is basically APAC, track APAC.com.
And the pro-Israel lobby that basically hijacked our entire government and is basically going to set the whole world on fire on behalf of Israel.
What evidence do you have of that?
Setting the whole world on fire.
Why do you believe that?
Why is that your opinion?
So these groups of people from Israel basically have hijacked every country and government and are basically against the United States.
How do you know?
What evidence do you have of that?
Crack APAC.com.
And Benjamin Netanyahu himself in 1991 had an interview, and it was recorded.
And he said that, you know, America is a golden calf that we will use up, chop it up, sell it off until there's nothing left piece by piece, make it the world's largest welfare state.
And then this is what we do to countries that we hate.
We destroy them very, very slowly.
This is Benjamin Netanyahu's word himself.
Israel was responsible for 9-11, the assassination of the people.
Okay, all right, all right.
We're going to leave it there.
That is DeAndre's opinion there.
Mike in Bethesda, Maryland, Democratic caller.
Hey, how are you doing?
Great show.
Listen, apologies for misdialing.
I'm really an independent patrician capitalist pig, but I called because I have to correct the record of the Will I declare Republican woman who went on and on about the racially magnanimous Republicans of the 19th century.
It's ridiculous.
You know, those Republicans are, you know, they've morphed into Democrats, and the Democrats of yesteryear, of the 19th century, are the Republicans today.
So, you know, they just switched parties, you know.
She ought to look up the Southern strategy, you know, under, I think it was Nixon.
Okay.
So there was nothing magnanimous about the White Southerners back in the 19th century.
They hated the idea of blacks getting the right to vote, et cetera.
Okay?
The rights for freedom.
So, you know, let the record stand corrected.
All right, Mike, will you talk about politics today?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, how can you have Thanksgiving without talking about meaningful stuff?
All right.
And I just pity, can I say this?
I just pity the working class, the middle class, the flyovers, the magical thinkers.
They're screwed.
Well, Mike, what will you talk about?
You said you have to talk about important things on Thanksgiving.
So what will you talk about?
How to invest our money under the Trump administration?
Do we go commodities?
Can we take advantage of the impending inflation that's coming away by having so much ridiculous tariffs?
Also, the other record that needs standing correcting is don't flyovers understand about how tariffs work.
Americans pay tariffs.
Only Americans pay tariffs.
You get that?
And that gets passed off to the peasantry who buys products and services that are manufactured abroad and brought to America.
All right, Mike, I'm going to go on to Martin in Chicago, Independent.
Martin, good morning.
Good morning.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Happy Thanksgiving.
I want to talk about history, too.
As that lady said earlier, the Democrats were the party of slavery.
What was the Democrats' ideology back then?
Yeah, it was conservatism.
That's why slavery took place in the South.
Now, Republicans love to claim that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.
What was his ideology?
He was a liberal.
So, Martin, you'll talk about this today at the Thanksgiving table.
I don't like cutting me off when I'm trying to make a point.
Liberal means a person concerned with one's individual rights.
That's why Abraham Lincoln was a liberal, a pot-smoking lawyer from Illinois, seeing everybody as equal in America.
So don't try to claim him as a conservative.
And yes, I will be talking about that with my family because they watch opinionated news shows instead of watching C-SPAN, so you go right to the source.
Okay.
Appreciate that, Martin.
Michael in Frederick, Maryland, Democratic Caller.
Hi, Michael.
Good morning.
How are you doing?
Morning.
We talk about politics every day.
I believe that's why we have so many misinformed and ignorant people in this country because they don't talk about politics, meaningful politics.
And I mean that to say that politics to actually affect your day-to-day life.
So what will you?
So give us some specifics, examples.
What will you talk about today?
You can talk about local politics as far as the legislation being passed that will affect or won't affect your life, as well as national politics.
What the impending administration, as well as the effectless House of Representatives, Republicans that will have the majority, slim majority again, would do nothing for two more years,
which will affect a lot of people because when you have an administration as ineffective, unfocused, ill-equipped,
unqualified as this administration is going to be, you need levers that will halfway protect, as did the, what was it, the 118th with Nancy Pelosi in charge, the last time that As-Clown Trump was in office?
117th.
Last Congress, this Congress is the 118th.
If not for the Democrats, the 117th, you had individuals sitting at home during COVID, which was exasperated by the ineffectiveness of the Trump administration, which I find so amazing that people just let that two years by and then punish the Republicans and him for.
But I believe politics is very important.
I don't think people.
All right, Michael, I want to get some other voices in.
The 119th Congress will convene in January, and Republicans will have a majority in the House and in the Senate, and President-elect Trump at the White House.
From the International Space Station yesterday, the astronauts aboard there had a Thanksgiving message for Americans.
Here it is.
Greetings from the International Space Station.
Our crew up here just wanted to say happy Thanksgiving to all our friends and family who are down on earth and everyone who is supporting us.
Thanksgiving is typically a holiday where family and friends get together.
Sometimes that can't happen to physically be around each other.
Today's age, you can virtually tie in to your family and friends.
And one of those big traditions is having a Thanksgiving meal together.
And so we're going to celebrate that tradition up here, though our meal may look a little bit different.
Don, if you hold the mic.
So we've got a container here of all the things that we're going to enjoy on Thanksgiving.
It is a feast.
Let me see.
We've got Brussels sardines, Brussels sprouts, butternut squash, apples and spice.
Smoked turkey.
And smoked turkey.
It's going to be delicious.
It's true we have much to be thankful for.
On a professional sense, I mean, there's not many places that you can be that you can actually lay on the ceiling.
And this is one of them.
We're thankful for zero gravity.
It's fantastic.
And of course, in a personal sense, our family, our friends, those that are lifting up prayers for us and have been, we're grateful for that.
We're grateful for a nation that is a space-faring nation that lets us live free, say what we think is important to say, and so many other things.
So much to be thankful for in this season.
To be reminded of that, to have a holiday that celebrates that, that's something to be thankful for as well.
And so from all of us on the International Space Station, happy days!
A Thanksgiving message from the astronauts aboard the International Space Station.
We're going to take a break.
When we come back, continue this conversation about the political divide in this country.
We'll be joined by Alexander Hefner.
He'll talk about his program, Breaking Bread, which seeks to promote civility among politicians and Americans one meal at a time.
We'll be right back.
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The event features several clips from the film.
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Sunday on Q&A, Jochen Jack Werfel, author of My Two Lives, talks about surviving Nazi Germany as a half-Jewish member of the Hitler Youth, the steps taken to conceal his identity, and the day his Jewish mother was arrested by the Gestapo.
As we got out of the subway, which was right around the corner from where my mother lived, where we lived with my mother, I saw all kinds of Gestapo and SS cars in front of the building.
Now, this was a large building.
There were many families in there.
And my brother and I decided that better than going in and going there with all these SS and Gestapo people, we waited on the corner and watched it from there.
And we decided to ask our mother as to why these cars were there and what the Gestapo was doing there once they were to leave.
We would go home and ask our mother.
Well, after a while, all of a sudden, to our surprise, it was my mother.
They were bringing out of the building, put her in one of the Gestapo cars, and they took her away.
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Washington Journal continues.
Welcome back to the Washington Journal.
Joining us this morning is Alexander Hefner.
He's the host of Bloomberg's Breaking Bread and PBS's The Open Mind here to talk about bridging the political divide.
Alexander Hefner, just describe the goal.
What is the goal of this series?
Well, the goal has been to incentivize civil discourse and more pragmatic thinking about how we can achieve a functional democracy.
So about two years ago, we started having meals with elected governors and senators across the country from the plain states, the Dakotas, Kansas, Oklahoma, to Alaska and Hawaii, to major urban centers in New Jersey and North Carolina.
So 22 plus episodes later of Breaking Bread, we've endeavored to forge consensus in talking about issues in a humanizing way and in a way that incentivizes elected officials to forge consensus and compromise in the deliberative process of our democracy.
So in short, there aren't so many media channels that want to promote how to be effective in governing across the aisle, and we tried to do that.
How are you forging consensus?
Are you encouraging these politicians to do so?
And if so, how do you do that?
Well, I think it starts with being introspective and reflective.
There are a lot of media channels where folks will pontificate and analyze ad nauseum.
But when you ask electeds about who they've had successful working relationships with, it's often illuminating and I think insightful to think about where we can find common ground, whether that's improving our electoral processes or individual issues like health care, immigration, the issues that are on the minds of the American people.
Overall, the goal was to demonstrate this fact, which is pretty indisputable.
Every state of our union is purple.
There aren't blue states and red states.
If you really think about it, every state, and I think I've said this on your air before, is a collage, is a smoothie of red and blue, because even in states that might certify their Electoral College votes for the Republican presidential candidate, President Trump, or would have for Vice President Harris, there are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who think differently.
And that's the beauty of democracy, of free speech, of pluralism, the coming together of ideas in a way that can navigate public policy effectively.
And that was the goal.
And I think we provided that stimulant to electeds when talking about issues that are important to their constituencies, whether it's Senator Warnock in Georgia or incoming Majority Leader Thune in South Dakota.
But that platform doesn't exist.
You have the Republican caucus meetings and the Democratic caucus meetings.
And I think it's incumbent upon all Americans now, after an election, even if it was and it was divisive and difficult to bear, to reset.
And that is, in effect, what we have endeavored to do on Breaking Bread is to reset the discourse and dialogue to be more constructive.
So why politicians?
Well, I've always taken an interest in elected office and specifically public policy because I view politics as not some fanciful idea, not some political science abstract concept, but I view it as the art of survival, and the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness every day as Americans and our vehicle to achieving that.
So I've always been fascinated by that question of how we wrestle with disparate definitions of achieving life, liberty, and happiness across the landscape of our country.
And it seemed like a natural constituency of elected office holders who were often motivated by the extremes of the ideological agenda in order to win the primaries that they then will be elected to be considered for general election in November.
And to me, ever since I hosted a radio program in high school calling up local and national elected figures, this has been an accessible area of political life.
And that's why this seemed like the idea of bringing food together over meals, disarming and humanizing our discourse in that way.
It just seemed like a natural fit.
For me, again, politics has not been jaded and tainted in the way that I think many of us who want to think of it only as a polarizing or cruel thing.
And it can be something that is life-affirming if we make it so.
I want to show our viewers a recent conversation you had with Tammy Baldwin, the senator from Wisconsin Democrat, about the political makeup of her state.
Here's what she had to tell you.
One thing that has confounded me is how a state like Wisconsin or any state in the Union would elect a senator with your values and also Senator Johnson, whose values clash, ostensibly.
I mean, I'm sure you work together in some regards, but how do you describe a state in that sense that would vote in those polarizing directions?
We have so many elections that have been decided by a couple thousand votes statewide.
And that's happened in presidential years.
That's happened with governor's races and U.S. Senate races.
So, you know, these are slim margins we're talking about in a fairly evenly divided state.
But I would also look at the longer arc of history in Wisconsin and think about the folks who have held the U.S. Senate seat that I am honored to hold.
And well over a century ago, there was a guy named Fighting Bob LaFollett Sr., who was a Republican who founded the Progressive Party and the Progressive Movement.
His son succeeded him, and then there was McCarthy.
I mean, that's your seat.
That's it.
And then, yeah, and so it and so it evolved.
But just to think about the idea that you have a state who would go at some point in time from a progressive maverick to McCarthy and then, you know, continue to move from there.
I also think that from year to year, you have different headwinds and tailwinds and sometimes a slightly different electorate who shows up to the polls.
Alexander Hefner, you were enjoying beer, cheese curds, and fondue.
How do you pick the food?
Well, I really defer to the electeds or their staff.
So I asked them what they would like.
You know, in the case of Thorpe, Wisconsin, it was a no-brainer for Senator Baldwin.
She said she wanted to do the classic cheese in a place, a farm that she was familiar with and had some past experience enjoying their food and sharing it with her constituents.
So I really lean on the electeds, whether it's chicken and waffles in Savannah with Senator Warnock, or in the case of Senator Baldwin, the cheese curds and fondue platter.
There is something inviting about indulging in a food that makes you feel like you're home and you are home.
And so in all these instances, I wanted the electeds to invite us to join them in what was a natural habitat for them to enjoy food.
You called it disarming.
So as folks get ready to gather around the Thanksgiving dinner table today and enjoy food at their home, how can they use that to have civil conversations?
Well, I think the prerequisite is to be fed in a timely way.
And I know that that can be a source of debate in households about what time you're eating.
So having some consensus around that before you arrive at a home might be a good idea.
And also having your turkey and some robust offerings of sides that are to everybody's liking, have a pretty robust culinary setup.
So that I think is the starting point.
And then I think it's about humanizing the conversation.
We just had this election.
It shouldn't be about the people who were elected as much as how our lives as Americans are going to be impacted by that election.
And I know it's important to be evidence-based, but it's also important to listen.
And the first ingredient of listening, not just in deliberative democracy, but in life, I think, is having a degree of empathy for one's perspective.
And I think it's fine to vet the facts about someone's experience as you continue a dialogue.
But my suggestion would be to hear the perspective of someone on how this election is going to impact them and then just listen.
And it might not be the presidential election.
It might be who was elected Senate.
I'm happy to say all of the participants in Breaking Bread over two seasons now who have won their re-election, including Senator Baldwin.
I think that says something about the kind of people who want to engage in that discourse and incentivize not just among the viewers, the American people, but among their colleagues, those values of consensus building.
But that would be my advice.
It would be to humanize the conversation and make it about the person you're talking to and the trajectory that their life or their neighbor or their neighborhood is on as a result of elections to a school council, a county executive, or in the case of federal office, a senator or the president.
We're talking about bridging the political divide on this Thanksgiving morning.
Here's how you can join the conversation.
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Text us if you'd like.
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Alexander Hovner, what do these politicians tell you after they have this conversation with you about their takeaway?
Well, you asked the important question of kind of what goes on in the green room, but it's the post-green room, right?
When in television, when folks are waiting to go on TV, they might have more candid conversation before they see the cameras.
Again, we tried to create a climate where they could speak openly, playing basketball with Senator Thune, flying in a plane with Senator Kelly.
So I think the conversation has been about the continuity of change.
And we are hopeful that in a third season of Breaking Bread, that we can bring two of our guests together, like Thune and Kelly or Murkowski and Hirono, and actually over the course of a few meals, maybe that is three meals or five meals, find some policy solution, craft a solution to a public policy challenge or problem.
And we've seen reality TV in American life and in that culture in every respect, whether it's business, The Apprentice, whether it's love and romance, Bachelor.
And this idea that reality TV is fictional or fabricated or something is not really true, or at least that's not how Americans experience it.
There are people who go on that show, Love is Blind on Netflix, and they end up married or divorced or what.
Likewise, President Trump was on the apprentice demonstrating business acumen and his process, and now he's president of the United States.
So, this idea that we could not have a conversation that is having an output and a process that delivers a result is not true.
We could have that.
So, the conversation usually ends at a point where I say to Senator Thune or Senator Murkowski, let's do this in real life, not on a single episode.
Part of Breaking Bread is about exploring the culture and geography of all 50 states.
So, we've done that now in 20-plus states.
The proof of concept will be if in this new administration and this new Congress, there can be a reflection of that reality that I mentioned, that we're all purple states, that we are govern amongst and we represent liberal and conservative values.
And it's a challenge to see if this government, and it's worth pointing out that President Trump's cabinet part two has more diverse perspectives and viewpoints, is more ideologically heterogeneous.
That might help in presenting to Congress an agenda that is going to be more inclusive of both parties.
And that's what we tend to talk about as we conclude our meals and episodes.
What's next?
What can we do next to advance the cause of sound bipartisan leadership in America?
So, do you think Senate Majority Leader John Thune will bring, as he said, pizza and ice cream to the Senate floor and make people more happy?
Well, I think he genuinely would like a less divisive climate.
He's not a divisive person, and he's already established that the legislative branch is a co-equal branch, and it will have a role in the participatory democracy and representative democracy of our country.
And he's also demonstrated he wants to enact the Trump agenda.
And I think that both things can be true and still taking a conciliatory diplomatic approach.
And it's just as much incumbent upon leader Schumer or whoever the Democrats elect as their minority leader in the Senate to do that, to show that they are resetting.
Trump won was Trump one.
Trump two can be a different specimen insofar as legislation that is not like the landmark bills we've seen in the most recent Congresses.
So, whether it was the Obama administration, whether it was the Trump administration or the Biden administration, the big ticket legislative victories tended to be ones that had a majority of one-party vote and nearly none or totally devoid of Republican or Democratic support, the opposite party support, whether it was the Affordable Care Act or the Inflation Reduction Act.
The point is that Senator Thune, to me, strikes me as someone who not only would like to play basketball with his Democratic colleagues, and he mentions a few in the episode, but would like to get down to business and demonstrate that type of leadership in the Senate again, which is camaraderie and collective action as opposed to one-party rule.
He goes on in that episode to talk about divided government and the merit of divided government.
But now, can you bring together ideas from both parties to legislate?
In that episode, he seems committed to doing that.
We're talking with Alexander Hefner this morning about his series, Breaking Bread, a conversation with politicians about bridging the political divide.
And we want to know your thoughts on that this morning.
Michael in Gainesville, Florida, Independent.
Yes, hello, Greta.
Hello, Mr. Hefner.
I would love to see Elon Musk, as would many, I think, in a discussion with you.
And should that occur, I would hope that you would be able to sit back and look at him and look at it from a scientific perspective and share with him some of what you've learned.
The brains of the elite are changed by their success, just like you're changed by trauma.
Those changes, in fact, are identical to the changes of trauma.
And you, because you discuss things and see the minds of so many successful people, you're in a particularly good position to see this evolution.
But that's not the thing to talk to him about.
You might get in trouble with that.
When you talk to Musk, his focus is on optimization and efficiency, which is basically growth in GDP.
And this is where science comes in.
Evolution is not a synonym for survival of citizens or competition.
Evolution works by cooperation.
So in our society, you know, from colonialism onward, our whole focus is that evolution optimizes and competition, free market competition optimizes.
And that is factually untrue.
So if you were to sit down with Bernie and discuss universal health care, the brains and the culture would change to become more abundance versus more scarcity oriented.
And you could see the GDP grow by 10, 20%, unbelievable numbers by our current sense of how things work by moving into that abundance mindset that is enabled by Musk embracing the fact that cooperation helping the least amongst us enables us to.
Let's give Alexander Hefner a chance to respond.
I appreciate that.
I think the marriage of efficiency and cooperation is vitally important, what you allude to.
You know, there is a question today about whether our politics can be inclusive.
And I think it can be, and I think it can still be merit-based.
And that's a discussion that is ongoing on X and that Musk is having with political leaders about what it means to be an American, what it means to govern the country.
And I think you really identify the most important thesis in taxation with representation, right?
That idea of efficiency, soundness of policymaking, married with collaboration, collegiality.
And it's one thing to have a platform like X now that has open the floodgates to all speech.
And it's another thing on X or off X to incentivize values of cooperation.
And that's what we're struggling to do as a country, whether it's in our presidential elections, campaigns, or the act of governance.
And that really is, I think, the single most important question now.
I think we should be compassionate towards each other, but it has to be an informed compassion that is seeking to have real tangible objectives in the political process.
Robert, you're next.
Burnsville, North Carolina, Independent.
Good morning.
Good morning.
I'm a little bit off topic here, but I'm up here in Western North Carolina, and I hear the word compassion.
And we've got people up here that are living in tents and in their automobiles because their homes were washed away.
And we're talking about having meals with politicians who don't suffer at all.
I think Bloomberg could do a lot better job if they get out with the people in these areas, talk to some of these people, talk to these volunteers that are up here trying to help.
Let's take that point, Robert.
Alexander, have you?
No, Robert, I appreciate that point.
And I think that devoting ourselves to the rescue and recovery and care for impacted people by any natural disaster at any point is crucial and the humane thing to do.
I'll just note that we filmed season two prior to that most recent hurricane.
I do know firsthand, living through Superstorm Sandy, what it means to experience a natural disaster of that magnitude.
But illuminating the lives impacted by natural disasters is really important.
And it's important when electeds want to make political hay out of it and say that, well, we don't experience this type of disaster in this corner of the country.
No, again, we're a union, and whether it's extreme heat or tornadoes or superstorms, hurricanes, that is who we are as a country.
And to think that your perception is there's not help or not sufficient help in the mountains, I would want to know why, why that hasn't happened,
because whether it's the Florida coast or the coast of Staten Island in New York, help should be on its way and should be actively engaging in those communities.
And to think it's not is troubling.
I want to show another conversation from this series.
This one is when you sat down with Senator Misi Hirano, Democrat of Hawaii, over Japanese food, and you were talking about legislation that she had for folks to help those in the Philippines.
Interesting conversation.
We'll talk on the other side.
Your first bill as a U.S. Senator involved reaching the heart or attempting to reach into the heart of one of your colleagues, right?
Senator Sessions.
You said you.
Oh.
Jeff Session helped me get my first bill through the Senate.
And it was a bill that would help the people of the Philippines because they had had a huge hurricane that struck.
And I wanted to have a bill that would enable people to send money to them and be able to get a tax break from it, even if it was the following year.
So I had to get it done in a pretty fast time.
And I couldn't get the bill out of the committee, so I just went to the floor to get a unanimous consent to bring the bill out.
And all it takes is one Republican to come to the floor and object.
I saw Jeff Sessions coming to the floor, and he was the designated objector.
But what I did was I went into the Republican spoke room.
We really go into each other's cloakroom because that's where we sort of get to make home calls and give various things.
But I said, Jeff, I know you're here to object to my UC request, but here's why I think this is really important for us to do.
And there's a precedent for this.
And I asked him, why are the Republicans objecting?
He said, well, we don't like these kinds of bills or something like that.
It was pretty lame.
I knew that he thought he would just come down and say, I object, and he would go off.
And then he says something like, well, we need to be consistent.
And I said, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
And I said that why it was important.
But what was really telling was that I literally touched his heart.
And I said, Jeff, something like, Jeff, I know that there's something there, you know.
I'm speaking to this.
He was surprised.
And he said, well, maybe we can work something out.
And we did.
You know, I was touched by that story and felt as though if you made more frequent trips to the Republican cloakroom, you will be warmly received.
You think?
Well, in time and with the kind of commitment that you demonstrate.
But do you think?
It's a little harder these days.
It's quite divisive.
Alexander Hefner, your question to her or your suggestion that she make more trips to the Republican room off of the Senate floor, same with Republicans going to the Democrats, I assume, as well.
Why did you make that suggestion?
What was the takeaway?
Well, it seems to me that all these electeds should have space for their private calls to family and friends, but they should also have spaces for that consensus building.
And so I don't know if it's the cloakroom or some other room that they might design for brainstorming as Americans, not Republicans and Democrats.
But that's the point that I was trying to convey that I feel like in days of less polarized and polarizing politics, that those types of visits to the opposite party cloakroom were not frowned upon.
And that motion to Senator Sessions' heart, that that is the type of human nature and body language that fosters the personality of equanimity, the personality of being togetherness.
So to me, Senator Hirono, who is a thoughtful and persistent person, is also someone who is seeking mutual ground.
And that's something that can be repeated.
One thing that Senator Booker mentioned in season one of Breaking Bread, and you can watch it on the Open Mind website, is the policy proposal of baby bonds.
So for any prospective parent, he and some of his Republican colleagues want there to be these baby bonds for new parents to have access to childhood care, medical supplies, what a new parent might need and might not have access to because of inadequate health insurance, no health insurance,
or not having disposable income to help their kids at a formative stage.
And to me, that's just a really well-regarded, strategic, bipartisan idea that you could have these baby bonds accessible to prospective parents when population growth is in decline, when there's a feeling of malaise and lack of affordability for the critical things that people want and need to parent and nurture their children.
So it's that type of thing where you can appeal to someone's heart.
And it's not a big government bonanza.
It's something at a formative stage that we can feel represented in public policymaking.
And it's not a massive program that is hard to track the expenditures and not transparent.
It is a check going to every prospective or soon-to-be parent.
We'll go to Lee, who's in Oklahoma, Democratic Caller.
Hi, Lee.
Hi, how are you?
Morning.
We're talking about bridging the political divide.
Your thoughts?
Yes.
Well, I would say that tweet you just read from our ex-president that will be our next president, that is a dividing Thanksgiving message because he called us the radical lunatic left who run this country.
Do not think that's dividing.
What about that, Alexander Hefner?
The message at the top.
Yeah, no, I mean, it's a fair point.
And I think that the American people have viewed positively so far the transition.
And I think part of it is the diversity of perspectives.
But also, it's because there hasn't been as much appearance of the invictive, vindictive, vicious kind of trolling on social media.
And that may pause and it may resume.
And it's certainly not conducive to the health of our citizenry.
And this is the newly reelected, non-consecutively president of the United States demonizing anyone in the country in cultivating a legacy that is going to be broader than his base is not a useful strategy.
And I think there is really a question here about whether President Trump governs and behaves more like President Reagan and President Nixon.
I'm thinking about policies as they became more peace-oriented in Reagan's second term, looking to not engage in militaristic rhetoric with the Soviets, but actually find some treaties and counterproliferation measures.
Trump was elected on a platform of ending forever wars, specifically the conflicts that were unleashed with millions of people dead in the Middle East and in Russia and Ukraine.
The proof will be in the pudding, as they say, as to whether the president-elect is capable of fixing those crises.
If he is, and there is a downturn of violence, a decline, decrease of violence in those regions, even if he is tweeting, as you just described, there will be an objective reality that the atrocities that were being committed over the last four years are coming to a halt.
Now, that remains to be seen, but I think this is a case where you look at the vicious rants of any person, including the former president, on social media, and then you look at the governance of what are the outcomes, and you see how they might vary.
So, my point to the caller from Oklahoma, and it's a good point, is that there is the capacity of both an electorate and a president to reset.
And President Reagan also made jokes, and sometimes those were jokes about the Soviets.
But he had a personality that, at least historically, has been viewed as a sunny disposition, a happy disposition.
And if he was calling the Democrats names, it was a loyal opposition.
It was not that they are trying to ruin the country.
He just didn't speak that way.
And whether it's Reagan's second term or Nixon's whole term, Nixon became ensnared in a political scandal of his own volition.
However, this is the father of the Environmental Protection Agency.
This is someone who governed from the center right, who believed in environmental protections, who was more socially center than a majority of the Republican Party today.
And so this is the question.
Does Trump inform his second presidency by some of the successes of former presidents, the late Nixon?
And Reagan, it could come out differently, but he'll have to get off X or Truth Social more and more and instead point to the American people.
Here are lower prices.
Here is a decline in global conflict.
And if he can point to those outcomes, what's the need of tweeting that way or posting that way?
There is none.
Mr. Hofner, Steve from Florida says that we're divided because we're drowning in a sea of manufactured subliminal disinformation.
If we put down our devices for a week, we may rediscover ourselves.
Yeah, I think that's astute.
We need to put down the devices.
As much as it may not seem this way, television and why we make Washington Journal and breaking bread is because it's a different mode of learning too.
It's not the tit for tat.
It's really giving people the ability to have a platform to speak in sentences and not have the expectation that you are always going to prove yourself to be correct.
I love Washington Journal and always have since I was in college appearing on your air for the very first time in 2008, I think, because of the questions, because of the people who wake up and want to be part of this great experiment that is our republic.
And the great questions from Florida to Oklahoma to yours, Greta, that's what this is about.
And the phone, at least the social media apps, they don't present themselves to be generating that kind of emotional intelligence when Senator Hirono puts her heart on Senator Sessions and says her hand on his heart and says, let's make something happen.
That's really not what this is conducive to.
It just isn't.
Sally Sue wants to know, have any politicians turned down your invitations?
Yes.
You know, there have been yays and nays, and I'm, you know, constantly looking for new opportunities to engage in this type of discourse.
I am hoping that members of the new administration will join me, whether that's eggnog in the coming weeks or opening the new year when President Trump's cabinet is voted on and there is a 47th administration.
But yeah, no, there are people who've said no, and there are frankly surprising people who've said no.
We've interviewed, as I said, some of the self-described, most conservative governors and senators in the country or self-described progressive liberals.
I mentioned Senator Booker.
I joined Senator Thune.
Governor Stitt is an example in Oklahoma of someone who describes himself as extremely conservative and has extremely conservative policies.
And it's not necessarily what you would expect.
Governor Stitt saw a state in Oklahoma that had per capita the highest rate of incarceration and saw the opioid crisis manifesting around the country and in Oklahoma and said, I'm going to do something about that.
And so put in play legislation that would increase economic output and decrease the prison population.
And he has shrunk the prison system.
So this idea that there aren't issues on which you can find unity, there are.
And the ideological stripes of people can sometimes bolster the case for justice reform as an economic incentive.
If you bring economic opportunity to the dispossessed and disenfranchised in your state, are you not creating a positive capitalistic outcome in a state?
So yeah, I think that there are people who said no, including people who speak to the center of our politics.
And I am left wondering what is their definition of centrism or the center if they don't want to break bread.
I mentioned, Greta, that every one of the 22 plus who have appeared with me now in two seasons has won reelection, a streak that I hope continues among breadbreakers.
And we're showing our viewers the website.
If you could just say it for folks, because Jay Sanders tweeting in wants to know where they can view these discussions that you've had.
Yeah, go to 13.org/slash the openmind or theopenmind.com.
So that's 13.org slash openmind or theopenmind.com, and you'll find all these exchanges that we've had to date and future ones there too.
Alexander Hefner, thank you for your time on this Thanksgiving.
A happy one to you.
You too.
And that does it for today's Washington Journal.
On behalf of everyone here at C-SPAN, we want to thank you for supporting and watching our network.