But also, you don't understand your own leverage in the relationship, what you can bring to bear that can maximize the chances that you have for advancing your own interests and doing so in a way that doesn't spiral into a direct conflict.
And that's particularly true in dealing with a nuclear superpower.
So, that is, in fact, something that we need to be able to do as we attempt to resolve the war in Ukraine on acceptable terms.
All right.
That's George Beebe, Director of Grand Strategy at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.
You can find more of his work at quincyinst.org.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you.
Welcome back to Washington Journal.
We're joined now by Adriano Espeot.
He is a Democrat from New York, also a member of the Appropriations and Budget Committees and Democratic Caucus Senior Whip.
Congressman, welcome to the program.
I will lead this here to take you live now to the White House, where President Biden is meeting with President-elect Donald Trump.
Live coverage on C-SPAN.
It's good.
Welcome.
Thank you, Jenny.
Thank you very much.
And politics is tough.
And it's in many cases not a very nice world, but it is a nice world today.
And I appreciate it very much a transition that's so smooth.
It'll be as smooth as it can get.
And I very much appreciate that, Joe.
You're welcome.
Thank you all.
I only talked about during the election cycle, but obviously impact families on a daily basis.
A lot's been made about Vice President Harris losing support from Latino men in particular.
Your heritage is Dominican.
Tell us what's going on in that voting block.
Well, I think that what's not being looked at is that she also lost support from President Trump really got the majority of the vote from white men, white women, and other sectors of the electorate, not just Latino men.
I think the Latino community.
But it has increased, though.
Yes, it has increased.
The Latino community often feels forgotten or ignored.
And when a population feels ignored or forgotten, they venture out and they look for alternatives.
And so we must engage Latino men hand-on, listen to, make sure that they feel they're at the table, that they are at the table, and that in fact they're part of the decision-making process that impacts their daily lives.
That's very important as we move forward in New York City, New York State.
We've seen how, for example, in New York County, a Latino judge has not been ascended to the Supreme Court in the last 10 years.
There hasn't been a Latino elected to citywide office ever in New York City, although the population is fairly high.
And in a place like the Bronx, which has the highest concentration of Latinos, there are no borough-wide electors there.
So Latino men feel left out, off the table, and they wander off from the original party that they had allegiance to, that they felt connected to because of many issues.
We must reconnect with them.
Do you think that the Republican messaging that illegal immigrants are coming to this country and taking your jobs, the legal immigrants, do you think that that resonated with people?
It may have resonated, but it wasn't exactly true.
Unemployment is very low.
In fact, 40% of agricultural workers are undocumented, and many other people may not want to do those jobs.
We're going to see the economy hurt if we indiscriminately begin to have a massive deportation policy.
Hurt in what way?
Well, we'll see some have estimated that the GDP could be hurt by just slightly over a trillion dollars, that the agricultural economy, which is dependent on folks, will be hurt.
That construction will be hurt.
We know that home building continues to be a major challenge for that industry, and they need a new force of labor.
And therefore, if we begin an indiscriminate policy of massive deportation, the economy could be hurt.
Now, they're not talking about indiscriminate deportation.
They're saying we're going to start with convicted criminals, et cetera.
What do you think of that?
Shouldn't that happen?
Do you agree with that?
I agree that immigration laws should be enforced within the parameters of the law.
But a massive deportation policy could get sloppy if not inhumane.
And so once you start splitting kids' children, little kids from their families, from their mothers, we know what happened last time.
We heard the little children cry in the middle of the night and how it shook America.
It hurt moms from both sides of the aisles.
Republicans and Democrats weren't feeling too good about hearing a little girl, a little boy shout for their mother in the middle of the night because they have been split apart.
My office was active in bringing families together.
Some mothers had to travel 3,000 miles to reconnect with their children in New York.
So I don't think that's what America is all about.
If you have somebody that's a convicted felon from another country, they should be deported back, absolutely.
But within the confines of the law.
And our guest is Edriano Espeat, a Democrat from New York.
If you'd like to join the conversation, you can do so.
Our lines are Democrats 202-748-8000.
Republicans 202-748-8001.
And Independents 202-748-8002.
Let's talk about government funding.
You're on the Appropriations Budget Committee.
What's the Democratic strategy for the upcoming deadline, government funding deadline, December 20th?
We should avert a government shutdown at all costs.
It doesn't help anyone.
It doesn't help Americans that are receiving social services.
The national security community will be heard as well as services will be interrupted across the board.
So we must avert a government shutdown.
There has to be a fair percentage of funding for social program and for the military complex.
Very often we see that the budget is bloated for the military and those programs for daycare services, for Social Security, for Medicaid, Medicare, for education are cut dramatically.
So we must have a delicate balance that protects both sides.
Let's talk to callers now.
Earl is up first, a Republican in Seneca Falls, New York.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Three things.
Why would the current, the president of Ukraine want to give up any more land with the so-called negotiations with Putin?
Two, what is this America first business?
My parents went through that in the 1930s.
And, oh, geez, now I forgot.
Okay, well, we got two things, Earl.
Well, regarding Ukraine, I mean, Europe is expecting to see what's going to happen next in Ukraine.
Everybody wants peace, but we all know that Vladimir Putin has a gluttony for moving forward.
And now it is the Ukraine, and tomorrow could be Poland or any other European country.
So the European Union and its economy are bracing to see what happens next.
We must play a constructive role in making sure that Ukraine is protected, that their sovereignty is protected, that the European Union is held together, and that the economy of the European Union, which is so directly connected to our economy, is healthy and strong.
And we've got a call from England on the line for Democrats.
Paul, good morning.
And I'll let you guys know.
And that's the question I want to ask.
The question is, do you think the Democrats win again in a few years' time?
Do you think when it comes to the next election?
Do you think?
Do you think they win again?
Do you think?
In the next presidential election, Paul?
That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, first, in between that, we have the midterms.
So the tradition has been that there has been a change of leadership in the midterm elections.
There's sort of like sleepy elections where voters get to decide whether or not their local representatives and senators are doing a good job in their respective districts.
And so we will begin to rebuild and focus on the midterms to make sure that we regain, if we don't keep the majority in the House of Representatives, that we regain the majority.
It is important to have all voices heard in a democracy.
In this case, this past election, it seems that the voters favor Republicans, but I am sure that in the midterms we'll have some substantial gains.
Let's talk to Gina in Decatur, Alabama, Republican.
Hi, Gina.
Hi, how are y'all?
I just have a couple of questions.
I'm 100% first-connected disabled veteran, and I go to Huntsville, VA for my care.
And we've been going outside for town in the private sector, and it's been a lot better.
And my son's current military, and I have two questions for you, sir.
I'm Gen X, and he's Gen Z.
And would you consider voting for Man Census Social Security for people within 10 years of retirement?
Because I don't think Lauren Buffett needs a Social Security check.
And I noticed you gave the military a 19% raise in the House in the budget.
And then now the Senate, that's Virginia enlisted soldiers.
My son makes Penins.
And they took it down to like 5% in the Senate.
I would like to know what you do about Social Security and giving the military junior soldiers a raise so they don't have to draw food stamps.
Okay, so the question about Social Security and then junior soldiers giving them a raise.
I believe in giving soldiers better pay.
I also believe that the Social Security system should be held together, should be stronger.
We should do everything we can to ensure that there are no future pitfalls in our Social Security system, that generations are protected as you continue to pay in, that the future is not compromised.
That will require, obviously, more responsible budgeting.
That is why it's so important that we avert a fiscal shutdown on December 20th and that we continue to be fiscally responsible as well as socially responsible with our veterans that put everything on the line so that we could enjoy our democracy.
We must, for example, also, Mimi, address through a supplemental, the Hurricane Selene and Milton that devastated many parts of the country.
We should have a supplemental to ensure that those countries, those sectors of those states are rebuilt and that people get on with their lives.
So that is an additional piece of budgeting that we should do, as well as the farm bill.
I think we have the opportunity before the end of the year to pass the farm bill so that we have not only agricultural policy in place, but food security measures put in place to ensure that everybody eats and no one is hungry across America.
Brenda, Manchester, Washington, Democrat.
Hi, Brenda.
Hello.
Good morning.
I have so many thoughts.
It's going to be hard with them swirling all around to get them on.
First, I want to say all the Democrats and to you, Mr. Representative Esfiat.
I hope I'm saying your name correctly.
Yes, you did.
Stop all the hand-wringing.
Stop all the hand-wringing.
We had an excellent candidate.
The thing that Republicans do is they insist that they are great at governing and bad at messaging.
It's the other way around.
We're the bad messengers and excellent at governing.
That is true.
We lost to a marketing genius that is a master manipulator.
That's hard to beat.
When you have integrity and character, you're not going to win against someone like that.
That's that.
Also, as far as a mandate to all the Republicans out there, 2008 was a mandate.
That was a mandate.
And Barack Obama still came in and said he wanted to govern for everybody.
These Republicans that win on these very slim margins, that is not a mandate.
That's not a mandate.
And one last thing, to everybody that insists that Donald Trump is doing this for the people because he's so rich, he doesn't have to do it.
He milks the government.
Look at the contracts.
Look at how they stay at his hotels where he even jacks up government rate.
How is that possible?
He ran to stay out of jail.
And sadly, I do believe he's going to be successful.
And look at the people he's putting in, all the sycophants, the people.
He's got TVs up at Mar-a-Lago.
He is judging everybody on how they speak of him.
That's his only qualification.
How much do you like me and how well will you serve me?
I always want every president to succeed as I do this one, but I am very fearful that it's not going to happen.
And once again, Democrats are going to be expected to mop up another Republican mess that no one's going to remember.
Thank you.
Thank you, Brenda.
I do agree that we must do better with our messaging.
And I also agree that it wasn't a total, although at the end of the day, Republicans may control all three branches.
It wasn't really a blowout in terms of the percentages of the votes.
So we do have hope.
The Democratic Party is a party of hope.
We will engage with the voters again, and we will recalibrate our messaging to ensure that we are speaking to working class and middle-class America.
I think it's important that we must listen to and speak to those folks that are concerned about pocketbook issues.
She did mention cabinet positions, and it's expected that President-elect Trump will name Senator Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.
As you know, Senator Rubio's parents are Cuban immigrants.
How significant is that for the nation's Hispanic community?
Well, it's a first.
His concentration has been in Latin America and the Caribbean.
Obviously, a Secretary of State has to deal with a broader scope of international politics.
I hope he's up for the job as we continue to engage with worldwide crisis in the Middle East, in the Ukraine, and other parts of the world.
It's a very, very compelling and demanding job.
You know, he has served in the Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate, so he has some experience.
But this is a big and demanding job.
I hope he's up for the job.
We've got a question for you on text from Doug in Florida.
He says, on Meet the Press, Senator John Varazo said, quote, after cutting taxes, money coming into the Treasury actually went up.
Is that really the case?
Well, if we cut taxes for the very rich, we will see a decrease in revenue and an increase in our deficit.
That has been the characteristics of the strategy applied by the Republican administrations to cut taxes for the very rich, for the 1%.
And we see how that contributes directly and disproportionately to a growing and ballooning deficit that continues to be a major problem.
We want to see some tax relief for middle-class America, for working-class America.
We want to see how we perhaps entertain the child care tax credit that was very important to working families that are struggling on a daily basis and not to the multi-millionaires that are relying on cushion tax cuts that will not contribute to additional revenue for our government.
Pat in Stockton, California, Republican.
Good morning.
Pat, are you there?
I'm here.
Yes, I'm here.
Go right ahead.
So my question is, he keeps saying that people will be deported that are agricultural manufacturing and housing and building.
Those people have green cards.
They are not committed to court it.
So why do you keep saying that people will be deported that are doing important jobs when they're actually green card holders?
According to the USDA, the undocumented population in the agricultural sector is 41%.
That was back in 2018.
And the American Immigration Council estimates that the GDP will be impacted by $1.1 trillion if this massive deportation strategy is implemented.
And so these are the numbers.
These are just the numbers, and that's how they are.
You know, we never seen prosperity in our history, at least at a substantial level, unless there's immigrant labor there.
So yes, some industry, such as the agricultural industry, will be directly impacted if this is applied.
This method of massive deportation is applied.
There are concerns that in the process, even U.S. citizens that may be typecast or maybe profile could find themselves on the deportation track.
Congressman, we got a question for you from Kristen in Portland, Maine, who says, an earlier C-SPAN listener today suggested Biden be bold and pardon the DREAMers.
What do you think of that?
I believe DREAMers should be given an opportunity, absolutely.
DREAMers are young people that are here.
They came to the United States when they were one, two years old.
Many of them are nurses.
Many of them are teachers.
They're homeowners, small business owners.
They contribute to America, to our economy.
And with the exception of that card, that green car, they're everyday Americans.
Can President Biden do something about that without Congress?
He has considered the DACA initiative that has been shut down by the courts.
But that is a consideration.
And President Biden, I'm sure, will consider many actions before he leaves.
I suggest and I encourage that that be one of them.
Steve in Freeland, Maryland, Democrat.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Mr. Espianado, this is for the entire legislative branch.
We have 535 members that make up the legislative branch.
All of them are egomaniacs.
You have an approval rating year after year of less than 14%.
You have the inability to pass 12 appropriation bills.
I think one of the reasons that is because you guys are off, not in session.
You're off, if we call it recess, more than you're on.
We can't keep the lights on.
I mean, that's just the basics.
We can't even keep the lights on.
We're going to print another $10 trillion this year.
It doesn't matter who the president is.
Because if we do not reduce the size of our federal government, we are never going to make headway.
That means the people that administrate, the people that work there, we have become just too big.
We really need to try.
And I know that's not going to happen.
I'm 60 years old.
I've seen this time and time again.
This is why I get so upset when people think a president's going to change it.
The way we're going to change this country is through the legislative branch.
If we cannot work together, 535 members work together to move common sense policy forward in this country, we are going to bankrupt.
And we talk about this every year.
This will be the next topic on C-SPAN.
The federal budget, the deficit.
But nobody wants to address what needs to be done.
All right, Steve, let's get a response.
Well, I do believe that government is a force of good, that veterans get services through government, that moms that have to go to work get daycare services through government, that the Medicaid program and the Medicare program that are the ones that provide access to health care for seniors and for families get their services through government.
We were able to cap insulin at $35 a month this past session.
We saw the positive impact of that new policy.
That was done through government.
As we brace to see whether the Department of Education will be dismantled or not, we feel very strongly that Title I, which provides additional funding for those districts that have high percentages of families living on the poverty level, that's done through government.
So government could be and is a force of good.
And so I don't believe in dismantling government.
I am not an anarchist.
I don't believe that we should have no government.
I believe in a republic.
And yes, I am an appropriator, and I agree with you that through the appropriation process in a bipartisan way, the American people want us to work together to ensure that we pass a budget that's responsible, that is balanced, and that addresses the deficit.