Conspirituality - Bonus Sample: Has Nonviolence Been Debunked?
Aired: 2025-06-02
Duration: 04:56


=== Protesters: Lattes or Masks? (04:53) ===

[00:00:03]  Question.
[00:00:04]  What do you picture when I say the word protester?
[00:00:07]  Do you see a weekend tourist with a latte in one hand and a political sign in the other chanting with the crowd as they meander peacefully along the state-permitted protest route?
[00:00:17]  Or does your imagination conjure a nimble and defiant character dressed in black getting in the face of the magas, fighting cops, and causing tactically orchestrated mayhem and property damage behind the anonymity of a masked face?
[00:00:32]  A recent guest on our show, Benjamin S. Case, is the author of a 2022 academic paper titled Contentious Effervescence, which describes being swept away in the heightened state of euphoria, empowerment, and group identification from the experience of participating in riots.
[00:00:49]  In his book, Street Rebellion, Case presents research interviews on the subjective experience of rioters and concludes that their actions I'm quoting here, can play a nourishing role for radicals' will to resist.
[00:01:02]  He quotes one subject as saying, Now, we're all left of center on this podcast, and so are most of our guests.
[00:01:21]  But on the spectrum of political action that runs from smashing shop windows, setting fire to restaurants and cars, and actively fighting counter-protesters and police, to disciplined, peaceful protests based on the principles of nonviolence, I'm much more aligned with the latter.
[00:01:37]  Now, that's a preference.
[00:01:39]  And it's based on the kind of idealism that holds up the campaigns of Mohandas Gandhi.
[00:01:45]  Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela from my own home country as examples of what some theorists call people power.
[00:01:52]  And this stance says that when enough people join a movement that protests nonviolently against unjust laws and government actions, they will eventually prevail, due in part to holding a kind of moral high ground that both draws in new participants and succeeds at winning over public opinion at home and in other countries.
[00:02:13]  by serving as a peaceful foil to repressive state backlash.
[00:02:19]  For their part, anarchists and revolutionaries label the political attitude I just described as an unrealistic and ineffectual liberal moralism that hypocritically enables and tolerates state violence and oppressive capitalism while finger-wagging at those willing to fight against it on our behalf by putting their bodies on the line.
[00:02:40]  The idea that any of those 20th century heroes prevailed without the brave participation of armed and unarmed revolutionary militants is a deluded fantasy, they say.
[00:02:51]  Of course, these are all generalizations.
[00:02:54]  You could even say, I'm relying on stereotypes and vibes so far.
[00:02:59]  There's a lot to unpack.
[00:03:01]  nuanced arguments on both sides and a rich history of research.
[00:03:05]  So I hope you'll stay with me as I explore some of the central questions about violence and nonviolence that are on my mind and the minds of others who have recently commented on our feed regarding these topics.
[00:03:18]  Thanks.
[00:03:18]  you you you Welcome to Conspirituality.
[00:03:22]  I'm Julian Walker.
[00:03:24]  Today's episode will be a little different as it is in part a response to my friend and colleague Matthew Remski's double episode from last month.
[00:03:32]  That was an interview with a political sociologist named Benjamin S. Case, who is deeply critical of a kind of mainstream consensus that nonviolent resistance is not only more virtuous, but more effective at creating positive societal and political change.
[00:03:49]  For the purposes of my shorthand intro here, I don't think Ben would object to me saying that he is pro-riot.
[00:04:00]  I dug into the literature, immersing myself in it for the last couple weeks, and I found that Case has some really good points.
[00:04:08]  But that didn't change how deeply uncomfortable I felt with his arguments.
[00:04:13]  So I'm here to discuss, disentangle, and think about protest and political activism at a time when so many of us are sickeningly alarmed at the authoritarian direction of our own government and many other governments around the world.
[00:04:33]  You can also subscribe to our bonus episodes via Apple subscriptions.