If you’ve spent one minute on social media in the last few months, you’ve probably heard that seed oils are extremely toxic, food dyes are the reason for rising obesity rates—oh wait, that’s glyphosate—and vaccines are still causing autism. Nevermind the fact that the supposedly criminal preservative, thimerosal, was removed from almost all vaccinations in 2001. Clinical research is irrelevant in MAHA, RFK Jr’s Make America Healthy Again MAGA ripoff.
Wellness acolytes have found a champion in Kennedy, who’s going to immediately end chronic diseases and reduce obesity rates by…checks notes…making sure every American has a gym membership. We’ve covered Bobby a lot on this podcast, so today our fearless correspondent, Mallory DeMille, returns to investigate one very vocal and very relieved cohort, the MAHA Mamas. They just know Kennedy is going to truly save the children, science be damned.
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Nobody listens to Paula Poundstone.
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This is comedian Paula Poundstone and her co-host Adam Felber, who's great.
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When I was on, they grilled me in an absolutely unique way about conspiracy theories and yoga and yoga pants and QAnon, and we had a great time.
They were very sincerely interested in the topic, but they still found plenty of hilarious angles in terms of the questions they asked and how they followed up on whatever I gave them like good comedians do.
Check out their show.
There are other recent episodes you might find interesting as well, like hearing crazy Hollywood stories from legendary casting director Joel Thurm, or their episode about killer whales and killer theme songs.
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Find Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Welcome to the I Can't Sleep Podcast with Benjamin Boster. - If you're tired of sleepless nights, you'll love the I Can't Sleep Podcast.
I help quiet your mind by reading random articles from across the web to bore you to sleep with my soothing voice.
Each episode provides enough interesting content to hold your attention and then your mind lets you drift off.
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Hey everyone, welcome to Conspirituality, where we investigate the intersections of conspiracy theories and spiritual influence to uncover cults, pseudoscience, and authoritarian where we investigate the intersections of conspiracy theories and spiritual influence I'm Derek Barris.
I'm Matthew Remsky.
I'm Julian Walker.
I'm Mallory DeMille.
Yay, Mallory's back.
You can find us at Conspirituality on Instagram and threads at ConspiritualityPod.
You can access all of our episodes ad-free, plus our Monday bonus episodes over on Patreon at patreon.com slash conspirituality.
You can also grab just our bonus episodes via Apple subscriptions.
I do want to make a note, however, because Apple has recently made some updates.
If you download the Patreon app through Apple, there is now a 30% surcharge because a trillion dollar market cap is not enough for Apple.
They have to take from independent media creators now.
So just letting you know, if you want to support us on Patreon, and we would love that, please just go to Patreon itself and download their app, and then you won't have that 30% surcharge on there.
Now, if you are an existing Patreon member, no matter where you signed up, that does not apply to you.
Sorry that's so convoluted, but welcome to our reality.
And as independent media creators, we really appreciate your support.
Also, if you are one of our Patreons already, you might have a friend or family member who appreciates your support in the form of filling their ears up with our bonus content because Patreon has rolled out gift memberships for the holidays.
You can choose the tier and the amount up to a year.
And so, guys, I think now we have to think about who these gifts might be going to.
Maybe to some Maha Mamas.
I think we're going to have to be very persuasive.
Conspirituality 235. Maha Mamas.
If you've spent one minute on social media in the last few months, you've probably heard that seed oils are extremely toxic.
Food dyes are the reason for rising obesity rates.
Oh wait, that's glyphosate.
And vaccines are still causing autism.
Never mind the fact that supposedly criminal preservative thimerosal was removed from almost all vaccinations in 2001. Clinical research is irrelevant in MAHA, RFK Jr.'s Make America Healthy Again MAGA ripoff.
Wellness acolytes have found a champion in Kennedy who's going to immediately end chronic diseases and reduce obesity rates by...
checking my notes here...
making sure every American has a gym membership.
We've covered Bobby a lot on this podcast.
So today, our fearless correspondent, Mallory DeMille, returns to investigate one very vocal and very relieved cohort, the Maha Mamas.
They just know Kennedy is going to truly save the children.
science be damned.
Today we're hanging out with the moms and the mamas.
This word might not mean anything specific to you, but in conspirituality communities, it's a pseudocode that quickly articulates your beliefs, how you plan on raising your children, and more recently, how you plan to vote in the 2024 American presidential election.
Moms everywhere are waking up today like it's Christmas morning.
It is because RFK Jr. is planning to attack All of our pharmaceuticals, all of our food, all of our water, he is planning to make America healthy.
You guys want to know what the silent majority was?
You want to know why women were voting for Trump?
This is why.
We know how unhealthy our world is for our children.
And I could not, I couldn't be happier.
I couldn't be happier.
When you start adding people of value, of actual value, to your team, it makes a difference.
It makes a huge difference.
And I know for myself and my family, I am so elated at the thought Look at that.
Gluten back in the spotlight.
All right.
Yeah, that one hearing it now in almost 2025 actually surprised me and also her saying that he's going to just attack water made me laugh.
Yeah, the attack word is really telling.
Yeah, attacking just water.
But before we get into the maha, I want to quickly talk about the mama bears.
When I started my all Instagram account around 2021 to track wellness influencers, I learned pretty quickly that the women who were advocating for anti-science approaches to health for their kids weren't just mothers, they were mamas.
Mama bears to be specific.
Based on my observations, to be a mama bear meant that you were anti-vax, anti-mask, you called processed foods poison, you were anti-fluoride, you leaned towards homeschooling, you probably wished they'd stop spraying the skies with chemicals, but overall, you were hyperprotective of your children and their health.
Oh, and maybe you had a business opportunity you thought your friend from high school would be great at.
Turns out it wasn't just me randomly seeing women with a preference for the term mama bear.
It had become a code.
Meet Mama Bears Project.
Their Instagram bio reads, Mama Bears Project is a resource center for parents to help them navigate raising happy, healthy children.
And their website clarifies that they have a specific focus of protecting the innocence of children from the political agendas that seek to harm them physically and mentally.
According to their website, the six issues of paramount concern are gender dysphoria, regular vaccines, COVID-19 shot, internet safety, masks, and silenced experts.
Their linked child-related resources include organizations such as Raising Nature's Child, Moms for America, and RFK Jr.'s Children's Health Defense.
Mother Jones actually reported on the Mama Bears phenomenon in 2021 as it related to a Virginia governor election.
The article reported...
In his victory speech on Tuesday night, Virginia governor-elect Glenn Youngkin expressed gratitude to all the usual suspects, campaign volunteers, colleagues, and voters.
But afterward, as he made his way through the crowd at his campaign headquarters, Youngkin thanked another group.
Way to go, Mama Bears!
He said, you guys are awesome!
Youngkin wasn't just referring to a casual group of women supporters, the soccer moms of his race.
In the days leading up to the election, conservative Virginia parents coalesced around the phrase, mama bear, scrolling it on signs in support of the governor and posting it as a hashtag on social media.
Virginians aren't the only ones who've recently embraced this term, which refers to fiercely protective mothers determined to shield their cubs from harm.
Nationwide, it has gained a particular political dimension.
Self-described mama bears rail against what they perceive as government overreach in matters that concern children.
We are in the after Dobbs era, and part of what I'm wondering here is whether we're going to see a lot of weak or displaced versions of things Feminist or pseudo-feminist messaging in the sense of I may not have reproductive rights, but at least I have a say in food coloring, in cereal.
So I guess one question I have off the top, Mallory, is do you see any kind of feminism being pointed to in this stuff?
Is there an expression of strength here that's also cute?
And is it a strength that only revolves around motherhood?
And are mama bears married to papa bears?
Because, I mean, it also sounds really independent.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's no direct ties to feminism, though some of the mama bears do likely overlap with those who believe that feminism is actually a scam and that women should be embodying their femininity more and more of that like divine feminine, divine masculinity, you need that polarity.
I am sorry to report that there's no Papa Bears or any other Berenstain Bears characters for that matter.
Just the Mama Bears, who three years later after that article was written, the Mamas are still Mama-ing and just in time for the presidential election.
Listeners, today we're looking at the Make America Healthy Again or Maha Mamas.
I usually don't talk politics on here and If you ask me, I'm pretty down the middle, but one thing that I'm very happy about that Trump won is the fact that RFK endorsed him and that We are going to see major changes in our food supply and pharmaceuticals and especially the food for our kids.
So I personally have a bone to pick with this.
My daughter goes to preschool so I pack her lunch but they supply her with snacks and every day I ask her what do you have for snack and it is complete Junk.
It is refined sugary foods that she gets hyped up on that she's not used to eating at home, and I voiced my concern about this and nothing is done.
I get it.
It's cheap.
It's affordable.
It's funded by the government, but it is not okay.
Yes, I usually lean more towards the Democratic side, but with this topic, I am hardcore Make America healthy again.
Let's do what we need to do to keep our kids healthy, get them healthier, and get the junk out of our food supply, get the chemicals out of our food supply, and just really get back to the basics of what we should be consuming.
Man, I got to say, growing up Gen X, that is so different than anything.
My mom's like, got food, all right, peace.
But before we get into these mamas, let's look at the term a little bit to define it because it does have an origin story.
It's rooted in a sweat tent.
That's what Kaylee Means calls it.
A watch?
He's the former Heritage Foundation intern and business school graduate turned supplement salesman.
A lot of people know of him from his Tucker Carlson and Maha congressional experiences.
I think he meant a sweat lodge, Julian.
But accuracy isn't necessary when you're on the Joe Rogan podcast.
Kayleigh was in the tents with RFK Jr. and he said he had a vision of Bobby joining forces with Donald Trump.
Six months later, after the assassination attempt on Trump, Kayleigh said he called Tucker Carlson and they staged an intervention.
They influenced Bobby to go MAGA. Now, as Kayleigh tells it, there was no talk of polling or politics because Trump is famously not transactional.
No, Kayleigh said the two men were tear-filled as they talked about curing all the obese, diabetic children in America, and that is how If only Kayleigh could have had a vision of the assassination attempt.
He could have saved Trump's ear.
I love how everything has to come now from some revelatory and emotional spiritual experience with these people.
It's something we've noted for years with the conspiritualist influencers, where in lieu of qualifications or evidence, divine guidance is the go-to authority for their projects and their products.
But it's hard to know, too, right?
Because it's possible they're also just retconning the spirituality into very pragmatic business choices to market them in a particular way and feel better about them somehow.
Oh, I would bet anything on that.
I'm not arguing they're genuinely driven by spiritual revelations.
It's a branding choice.
Just like it is with other forms of charlatanry.
I don't think there's ever really been a dare there.
And the means do come from a family whose father, who was a very wealthy and successful businessman, ended up writing books about spirituality and business.
And he still runs a blog with that topic.
So intention aside, it's definitely been part of the lineage, at least for a while.
Now, in terms of Maha, it's not clear who coined the term, but merchandise was immediately available.
Along with Carlson and Means and Kaylee's sister, Casey, RFK Jr. toned down the anti-vax rhetoric and started cherry-picking ideas from this new ragtag crew of supplements pushers.
You had the food babe providing rhetoric around the dangers of food dye.
The Meanses added in their discussion about metabolic health, although neither of them are trained in endocrinology.
And of course, everyone's favorite, the danger of seed oils.
So basically we have the pseudoscience influencer dream team on deck here.
I think the meme world would actually describe it as a nightmare blunt rotation.
Yeah, except it's going to blow up in the faces of the consumers, right?
There is another one that has emerged.
I just saw because Michaela Peterson or Michaela Fuller interviewed Bobby recently and he's going hardcore into allergies, but he's making new diagram connections that he hasn't done.
He's been on the peanut allergy thing forever.
and glyphosate, and I don't even know.
I couldn't actually follow it.
So Maha quickly got in front of Congress a few months ago, if you remember episodes on that.
It was thanks to Ron Johnson.
Then they held a poorly attended rally in D.C. a few weeks later.
Now, regardless, Bobby's instincts were right.
He was able to pull at least some of the anti-science wellness crowd right into MAGA, capitalizing on all the anti-vax capital that he's accumulated, which dovetails perfectly with many of the influencers you cover, Mallory, those who know something just isn't right with modern food production those who know something just isn't right with modern food production and distribution and who always have a natural solution to And now we're seeing the fruits of that labor with his appointment to run the HHS.
Yeah, I think these folks are very clearly very aware of the influence that Maha has had on mothers specifically.
Derek, you mentioned Kaylee Means, who on November 4th, so the day before the election, tweeted out, Maha moms are going to make a statement tomorrow.
To which a woman named Christine responded, not Maha women?
I'm not a mother, so I guess I'm not included.
Kaylee answered Christine's inquiry by stating, it was just a turn of phrase, didn't mean anything by it.
But Kaylee and crew aren't stupid, and I think he absolutely did mean something by it.
It was one last rally cry, looking to secure the votes of moms who exist somewhere in the crunchy to outright pipeline, and maybe even usher in a new segment of moms to this pipeline.
Yeah, and I feel like in terms of the timing, it also has echoes of all of that JD band stuff about only people with kids having a real stake in the country other than...
The childless cat ladies, as well as the trad wife BS about the true purpose and duty of womanhood is to have kids.
It also sounded like the latest phase of the same supposedly grassroots but actually think tank funded local politics activism of Moms for Liberty and all of those QAnon and COVID denialist types who were flooding school board and city council meetings in 2020. I'll also point out, you flagged it, Mallory, but Kelly has a history of social media boo-boos.
A few weeks ago, he tweeted at Dr. Andrea Love, who he's chosen as a foil after her criticism of the Maha congressional hearing.
And he was talking about the rising cancer rates in America.
And then Andrea clearly pointed out his methodological errors, and she supplied the correct data, but then he strangely stopped engaging with her.
Mm-hmm.
Oh my god, I'm so surprised.
Speaking of social engagements, though, it's pretty clear RFK Jr. has always spoken to mamas.
In researching this episode, I noticed a number of moms sharing one specific quote attributed to him.
It says, the last thing standing between a child and an industry full of corruption is a mother.
I did a pretty thorough search on that quote, and I found no evidence that Bobby said that.
It does show up on a number of posts, however.
But maybe Bobby will one day rival the Buddha for misattributed quotes.
Also, Derek, though, what hasn't he said?
On what podcast has he not gone?
You can't possibly have done.
We have to design an AI Bobby tracker, actually, that can pick everything out of the cloud and figure out what he's actually said.
There's some kind of new Gish Gallup kind of principle where if you just talk enough, eventually all of the letters in the alphabet will have been arranged into everything that could possibly be said.
It's the monkeys, the hundred monkeys, or the hundred worms with typewriters or whatever.
Okay, well, you can also look no further than RFK Jr.'s merch store to see the strategic focus on the mamas, where you can find various Maha Mamas Club pieces, ball caps, toques, t-shirts, and sweaters.
But there's no Maha dad equivalent.
So, sorry dads, you're stuck with teas that say, make frying oil tallow again.
Is that a joke?
Nope.
That's the real thing.
You can also get one that says, Make Earth Great Again.
Both men and women have options for chiropractors for Kennedy merch, though.
Oh, shit.
You found your Christmas present, Mallory.
I know.
First the Healy, then quantum coaching, and now this.
Yeah, yeah.
Antivax is strong with the chiropractors.
He knows his people.
So, Mallory, I think you're totally right that Bobby has always spoken to mamas, but this goes back to 2004 and the beginning of his vaccine fascination and all of these times that he's recounted the story of how, you know, these women would show up in the front row of his environmental talks and then they'd want to pull him aside afterwards and talk to him about autism.
What do you think the most important new addition to this Maha iteration is?
Compared to 2004, I mean, social media is the pretty obvious one.
Mommy Facebook groups.
I'm sure on Instagram, the idea of crank magnetism, where science deniers and conspiracy theorists don't tend to believe one wrong thing, they believe many wrong things.
That's amplified because you're being served by the algorithm and your favorite influencers, a predetermined set of beliefs.
Like, oh, if you are only buying organic for your family, then you should also believe in chemtrails and that seed oils are poison and that you need to detox and the vaccines are a no-no.
It's become highly predictable.
And if these are the beliefs you share online, it becomes a part of your brand, even if you're not trying to sell anything.
Right.
And if something becomes your brand, it can become part of your identity And I think that part, the this is my identity part, is what has in a way added fuel to this Maha fire.
There's also this idea in marketing that you advertise to mothers because they're the primary buyers in the house.
And so I think that makes sense to extend the idea where mothers are the primary decision makers in the house.
Like what does our family eat and not eat?
And do we get vaccines?
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Listeners, meet Kendra Needham.
Online, she goes by The Holistic Mother.
She has 362,000 Instagram followers and her bio reads, Wife, Mom, Holistic Health Practitioner, Nuanced Health Information.
We're kicking off with Kendra because a November 8th, 2024 post of hers offers a good starting point for understanding the Maha Moms.
Text on top of a photo of two children reads, Maha moms aren't a cult.
We are a group of mothers who are tired.
Tired of being the thing standing between the government and our children.
Tired of raising awareness.
So we voted.
Accordingly.
Now we can do it with a little help.
Scrolling back, it appears Kendra has always made content that speaks to mothers about, again, what her Instagram bio describes as nuanced health information.
A January 2020 post, and what looks to be like the beginning of Kendra's content pivoting in a more official way, has a caption that reads, Mama, I see you doing the work, the research, asking the questions.
Unlearning and relearning is hard enough, so I'm here to remind you that you don't need to explain yourself while lifting the veil.
Trust the reasons you were led to research and ask these questions in the first place.
Thank the universe for bringing you the opportunity to become more aware.
Honor your listening.
This caption also includes hashtag Believe Mothers, hashtag Motherhood, hashtag Medical Freedom, and hashtag Healthy Living.
A year after this post, so January 2021, she would reach 10,000 followers and celebrate with a giveaway.
Mallory, I have a question which is, I would expect...
You know, the phrase or the sentence, we are a group of mothers who are tired, to sometimes refer to the fact that being a parent is tiring, but that's not what they're saying.
Do they refer to the stress of just parenthood as well, or are they just fine with parenthood, they're doing that perfectly, and really it's the government that's the problem?
I think that the use of the word tired, given the context of the rest of the post, is very clearly directed at tired of being the thing standing between the government and our children.
I don't think it's a general use of the word tired.
I think it's very of the context.
So they're emphasizing something, which is, I would be fine, this would all be fine, if I didn't also have to do this.
Perhaps, yes.
Yeah, Julian and I are laughing.
Parenting is the most natural thing in the world, and without the government getting in the way, you probably just do it by intuition and following the teachings of the Bible.
The thing I find fascinating about this is that so much of that post is content-free.
She could be talking about Welcome to my show!
Yeah, and speaking of Kendra's kind of like waking up, if you flip through her content between 2020 and 2024, you'll see natural remedies for various ailments, photos of her children and husband, the usual COVID misinformation suspects, and a few different flavors of fear-mongering.
Her pronouns are human being.
Oh, snap.
So smart.
And ads for holistic type products.
And honestly, it's all pretty cookie cutter.
Then on October 31st, 2024, Kendra made a political announcement.
The caption accompanying an Ace Ventura meme reads, My first year voting Republican.
The last time I voted was for Barack Obama in 2008, but I no longer align with the Democrat Party and haven't for quite some time.
I then went through a long period of voting doesn't matter.
So I didn't vote in the last couple of elections, even though I definitely have conservative values.
This year, I'm using my vote.
American flag emoji.
For the most part, her comment section was supportive, with some sharing a similar sentiment about their own pivot in parties.
This very much tracks with what we've identified long ago, well before this podcast, that just as wellness proliferates in privileged communities that can afford the products and services that you're talking about, the cookie cutter strategy.
Politics are also seen as something you may or may not engage in, which is honestly a privilege.
Tuning out and complaining is a lot easier than grappling with the very real and often boring realities of bureaucracies that affect people's everyday lives.
So switching from Obama, which we should note was during a peak moment in American politics in terms of marketing, you know, the Hope poster designed by Shepard Fairey was everywhere.
And in switching from him to Trump is not that surprising when you consider the emotional tone of these campaigns.
Yeah, that's something I've actually thought about a lot over the years.
Was the Obama energy that we all were so thrilled by was at the beginning of this kind of charismatic energy?
All of this is of a piece with our work over the last almost five years, but I think that the natural living and alternative medicine pseudoscience being so centered here means that alongside those who've been swayed by culture war rhetoric to trend rightward, The bigger chunk of the health and wellness crowd than I kind of thought would be moved by this Maha thing are increasingly going to feel that this new government under Trump is finally in alignment with their beliefs.
I don't think the turn, Julian, just happened with Obama.
You had Clinton and saxophone moment.
You had George Bush on the rubble of 9-11.
It's more like a media evolution in some ways.
It was definitely accelerated during that time, but the hope poster was right before social media.
The Obama moment in 2008 felt like it was the arc of the moral universe bending towards justice.
It was epic.
Yeah, yeah, agreed.
I also want to note that Trump won the white women vote in 2024 by 7%, so 53% to 46%.
A lot of the focus was on conservative religious white women.
We've covered it often in the Christian nationalist episodes.
But the crossover with the privileges of wellness participants is pretty glaring to me.
And it's certainly represented in the data because the overall women's vote went to Harris by the same margin, 53% to 46%.
The wellness world is filled with people who can enjoy the privileges of society without engaging in the silly politics of it all, not realizing how they've benefited from the system.
Same thing goes for public health, for example.
And this mindset seems rampant in the crossover between wellness and politics, where white women are beneficiaries of a system designed to benefit them, not nearly as much as white men, but still outsized when compared to other groups.
I think all of that is true, but I also want to acknowledge that we don't know yet all of the class realignments involved here with this movement.
It's going to take a while to figure that out.
And well-off privileged people, they can afford to check out of politics.
We've covered that for a long time.
It does characterize a lot of folks who can afford yoga and go to Whole Foods and whatever, but If Maha is a harbinger of a more populist movement and time, it may be more diverse than we know.
And when it comes to checking out of politics, people who are overworked or lower down on the income scale, sometimes they don't have any choice.
So there's that too.
Yeah.
I mean, we don't really know.
There may be a class realignment, as you're saying, in terms of certain people who maybe can't afford the goods and services of Maha.
Of alternative medicine having sympathies, right?
But at the same time, I think the bespoke lifestyle choices of organic food and alternative medicine, spending a lot of time following these kinds of influences online, being able to purchase pseudoscience products, going to the Conscious Life Expo, for example, as the real sort of diehards, Even being actively disruptive in local school board and city council politics, all of it suggests disposable income to some extent, and not having to give all your time and energy to working two jobs to keep the lights on.
Also, none of what any of these Maha influencers sell is really marketed to poor people, and that continues a legacy that we've observed for a long time.
So purely by its capitalist architecture, I think the demographic is dominated by those who are able to be viable consumers.
Plus, we're kind of circling around the same argument to me.
If you're too overworked to check in on politics, but you're spending your free time being indoctrinated into Maha propaganda, that's a science and media literacy problem.
It also makes me think of just where you get that info, meaning I saw a video of someone on the street interviewing not white people in the Bronx who are all blue collar workers, talking about why they were voting for Trump and they were all basically repeating a lot of Maha talking about why they were voting for Trump and they were And I don't think they're scrolling social media, but that's how it infiltrates.
And as for diversity, I was flipping through a book called Who is Wellness Forum?
in Powell's and reading it by Faria Roshin.
And her argument is that the wellness industry was built for white people on the backs of black, brown, and indigenous people.
And we can easily see that in social media circles with the majority of the crossover between wellness and Maha all leaning white.
Yeah, I mean, I think all of that is well established.
I'm also thinking about income and education diversity, because I don't think you have to spend your free time being indoctrinated when you can listen to a shitty podcast that hits all of the right grievance notes while driving to your second job.
And I'm saying this because I lived in two rural U.S. communities alongside a ton of late hippie-styled single Gen X moms and their daughters.
These were white people, but they were poor, and they worked in the service industry or on farms, and they were already in anti-vax territory 20 years ago.
So they would have been some of the people showing up at Bobby's environmentalism lectures.
And if Maha represents a broadening of the wellness demographic into a larger political movement, where maybe it's not about people who will afford supplements, but they really want him to take the fluoride out of the fucking water— I'm just holding out the possibility that poorer folks are signing on too.
And if they are, that's a more complicated demographic to talk about.
For instance, I'm going to bet that a bunch of the Midwest women that Jane Marie talks about in the Dream podcast who lost all of their money to MLMs think that Maha is just great.
And they're not the ones who are going to expos or Joe Dispenza events.
They may be trying to do another MLM supplement, but it's a losing proposition and it's not about having money.
It's about trying to get by and figure out what your political values are.
out what your political values are.
I think you're exactly right that it trickles down to the poor in the way that, actually in the way that Reaganomics sort of reflects in a bad way.
I think you're exactly right that it trickles down to the poor in the way that actually in the way that Reaganomics sort of reflects in the bad way.
But I think that recognizing where this wellness speak is coming from a predominantly white and wealthier audience, however, it trickles down.
There was a great conversation this morning on the news that is just saying like, if the Democrats are going to keep targeting every single, like playing identity politics with every single possible categorization, they're going to keep missing the forest for the trees.
So I don't think there's a problem recognizing that at the top it's coming from this particular demographic, which we can easily see by all the people we're featuring on this today, and then understanding that its tentacles are going to reach out and down, and you have to speak to all layers of those crowds in a way that's going to be inclusive and not always categorizing.
On election day, Kendra articulated in a very text-heavy post the various reasons why she voted.
These reasons include what's in our food and water, the V schedule, V mandates, because she had been on the receiving end of censorship when her views didn't align with the agenda, and because moms in local mom groups are saying they have no money.
The end of the accompanying caption states, it's not just about Trump.
I voted for the circle he surrounds himself with.
Dream team.
American flag emoji.
I feel like this represents something I've seen in this space where Trump embracing RFK Jr. and his Make America Healthy Again movement allowed a lot of folks to hide behind kind of like a Maha shield.
And maybe not the case with Kendra specifically, but I think for many Maha mamas, it's a lot easier to say and for your followers to digest that you're supporting Making America Healthy Again versus straight up voting for the convicted felon.
You can see direct evidence on Kendra's profile indicating the influence that Maha likely had on her endorsement, including this post that lumps Trump and RFK Jr. as one entity.
Derek, do you mind reading what the post says?
Okay.
Just a heads up.
Since we know Trump and RFK plan to bring awareness to the dangers of...
V, at sign, CC, exclamation point.
Vaccine.
And hold PH, and hold pharma accountable for their actions.
Don't be surprised when the media all of a sudden starts reporting on the increase in V, preventable illnesses.
This will be to create fear and dependence on their product and to make the good guys look like the bad guys.
Don't fall for the headlines.
Read the details.
Why is it every time someone says not to fall for the headlines, it turns out they fell for headlines from activist propaganda outlets?
Yeah, you're just going to have to stop trying to be logical because it's not going to work here.
It seems now the mama bears who had been standing firm behind the phrase, I don't co-parent with the government, really want to co-parent with the government now.
I wonder if we'll see them wearing the shirts they had maize with that phrase on it as much this year as years prior.
That's such an interesting phrase.
I hadn't heard it before.
And I'm wondering, is it also a dig at separated or divorced or queer or oddly organized or unconventionally organized families?
I never got that impression from it.
Yeah, this thing about the shift has really been blowing my mind lately because all of these supposed anti-government mavericks are now going to have their outsider perspective represented by the completely unqualified grifters handing down official agency policy.
And those of us who've maintained allegiance to scientific method and educated qualifications are now about to be the outsiders, complaining about corruption and incompetence, threatening the health of children.
It's this real mirror world inversion.
I know we shouldn't overuse that, but this really is it.
Yeah.
And Kendra, before we move on to our next main character, hasn't just been looking to recruit votes though.
Like many of the women I follow, Kendra is involved in a multi-level marketing company, Oliveira to be specific, which we do not have time to get into today.
But let's just say it sells beauty and skincare products made with various olive extracts.
And they have a page on their website where you can hear and feel the healing and balancing sounds of the olive trees 24-7 in real time.
That's awesome.
Awesome.
Totally awesome.
Yeah.
But at least Kendra, you know, in her MLM doesn't have a post that tries to compare MLMs to childhood immunizations.
Am I right?
Okay, so 10 days after the election, Kendra posted this to her feed.
And Derek, do you mind reading this again?
What Kendra has written on top of a photo of her dog?
Okay.
That is a cute dog.
Okay, if you're worried about pyramid schemes and an influencer selling skincare for an AMLM company, make sure you look into the biggest, most lucrative MLM of all time, the Childhood Vaccination Program.
I love how she crosses out vaccination, redax it.
They need their safe spaces from certain words.
Aren't they trying to not be censored?
I think so.
Yeah, I was kidding.
Okay, all right.
Your child, the consumer, the doctor, the consultant distributor, and pharma crossed out.
The network marketing company, what makes this the worst and most lucrative MLM? It is designed to create permanent customers and you can't get a refund.
So the top comment on that post, for me at least, says this is going from holistic page to a far right-wing page.
Disappointed.
And while some followers of holistic pages will be disappointed in the right-wing pivot and exit stage right, or maybe stage left, others might find themselves curious about what the hell their favorite influencers are talking about and start to do their own research.
I think social media influencers who have had this air of relatability still are fascinating when it comes to actually influencing, or at the very least nudging folks' beliefs.
But it is hard to ignore the larger media personalities, especially during election season.
We have a crisis of reproduction ability in this country.
It's horrifying.
Doesn't matter how somebody feels about abortion.
If you can't get pregnant, abortion is not an issue.
Vote based on who you feel is really going to do the most around health.
Poison is not partisan.
Serial killers, parolees, and kids with behavior issues in public school all have something in common.
They brag that they live on junk food.
This is the key factor, I think, to violence in America.
I am hellbent on making sure that every mom in America knows this.
Empowered moms create healthy kids.
This is what today's guest has believed for decades now as the leading activist in the country fighting to get GMOs out of our food supply and educate moms specifically about toxins in our food.
If you want to feel absolutely fired up about this election and why the current health crisis should be one of the top issues for you while voting.
Listeners, the clip you just heard is from the podcast Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark where she's interviewing executive director of Moms Across America, Zen Honeycutt.
The title of the episode is How Crunchy Moms Will Revolutionize America, The Health Vote.
It was released on November 5th, 2024, so the day of the election.
Alex Clark is an American media personality and podcast host associated with Turning Point USA. And if you find her voice familiar, it might be from this viral ad.
What if it could symbolize your commitment to values like freedom, individuality, and self-reliance?
Freedom to owe water isn't just about what's inside the bottle.
It's about the message it sends with every sip.
With labels like, this water isn't free, but your speech is, it's not just refreshing.
It's rebellious, and it's unapologetic to drink this in public.
Can you freaking believe it?
But that's where we are.
It's a reminder that even the most ordinary acts, like taking a sip of water...
Can be infused with meaning and purpose.
By choosing to drink Freedom 2.0, you're not just choosing a brand.
You're choosing to stand up for what you believe in.
Try Freedom 2.0 and tag me in your Instagram story for reposts.
Hold on, drink break!
Is this another running theme, Mallory, that you're going to express your highest values through consuming the wellness product?
You almost acknowledge that it's a cringey ritual.
It sounds like she's even making fun of her own mottos.
Kind of, yeah.
I think that's just a part of her personality.
She's just loud.
And I don't say that in a bad way.
I think women can and should be loud, but she's just who she is.
And I also think that you can express your highest value through consuming or purchasing any product.
There's...
There's a number of platforms and folks now dedicated to highlighting what brands you should avoid because they've gone too woke, what brands align with your right-wing values.
There's new companies springing up that seem to have political leanings as their core foundation.
What was that smoothie shop with the huge American flag and the eagle?
Oh, that was in California.
Freedom.
But anyway, that seems like it sprung up just with political leanings as its core foundation.
And to me, it all kind of feels like it's somewhere on the cash grab spectrum.
There's also a new credit card called COIGN, C-O-I-G-N, that is specifically targeting conservative spenders, basically.
And they give part of the profits every month to conservative charities and action groups.
And it's very popular.
Their customer base, right before the election, Rose something like more than it had in the three months prior.
So people are definitely looking for these sorts of brands right now.
So while Freedom Water wasn't a sponsored product, in this particular episode of Culture Apothecary, Masa chips were.
Masa chips are a seed oil-free tortilla chip that has become very popular with influencer favorites.
And fun fact, they DM'd me once upon a time and asked if I'd be interested in working with them.
Crunch, crunch.
I never got back to them, but instead I took a screenshot of the message and posted it to my followers asking if I should become a fucking sellout.
Masa, make America salty again.
The CWF free sponsors aren't a surprise.
Culture Apothecary sells itself as a health and wellness podcast, sharing raw, unpasteurized truths.
Scrolling through their episodes, it feels like its 2024 rebrand was made for Maha.
In fact, their merch is almost exclusively Make America Healthy Again, including a tote bag with the phrase and little images on it.
The images include a steak on a plate, butter on a plate, a Bible, wedding rings, one band with a diamond and one without, and a carton of raw milk, to name a few.
Unpasteurized truths is pretty interesting as a phrase.
Like, does that come up often?
I haven't heard a kind of explicit crossover between unprocessed in food and then sort of the notion of directness or authenticity in conservative media.
I actually think it's more directly tied to Alex's newfound love of raw milk.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I noticed, too, the steak on the plate, the butter on the plate, where there's like a keto kind of cultural reference point there.
I think...
This unpasteurized truth thing is fucking fantastic because it literally means truths that haven't been tested under heat or had the E. coli removed.
Like, raw unpasteurized truths literally means there's cow shit in the milk we serve.
Yeah, well, it's also not bureaucratized.
It's not going through stainless steel factories.
It doesn't have any of those sort of processing aesthetics of modernity.
And it reminds me of how many of these folks will say like, well, Alex Jones fucks a lot of stuff up, but often enough he's brilliant and really they're talking about somebody who speaks like an Old Testament prophet.
So I think this is a tagline that is really going to work for people who are willing to put up with chaos in their news if they feel they're getting that prophetic quality with it when they believe institutional journalism is sterilized really in their words.
Yeah, it's something that I'm really obsessed with right now.
Now it's driving me nuts.
This whiplash, which has been to use the bugaboos of censorship and cancellation to now mean that there's really no mistake too big.
There's no statement too insane.
There's no fact checking too embarrassing to tarnish the charisma.
There's no legal ruling too severe to tarnish the charisma and the occasionally accurate takes of a demagogue or an influencer.
Because as an individual, you can always decide on your own that Alex Jones was full of shit about Sandy Hook, right?
And so you'll be okay with separating that bit of E. coli out from his stream and taking the rest of it.
It's a very individualistic, sort of like consumer-based approach to media, right?
While some of Alex Clark's guests are the usual suspects, like Paul Saladino and Matt Walsh, most guests are women with a very Maha-heavy social media presence, also speaking to mothers.
This includes Lauren Johnson, who on Instagram goes by Natural Nurse Mama, has 520,000 followers, and whose bio reads Family Nurse Practitioner, Natural Remedies, Holistic Health.
A November 15th post on her feed stands out.
It just says, a worried mother does better research than the FBI. Yeah.
This also includes Courtney Swan, who goes by Real Foodology on Instagram, has 477,000 followers, and whose bio reads, On a Mission to Change America's Broken Food System, MS of Science in Nutrition and Integrative Health.
Courtney's merch simply says, Make Food Real Again.
She has an entire highlight dedicated to Maha, and her primary focus as of late seems to be cereal ingredients.
Which I think we can all agree is ultimately a conversation about mama bears and children and not actually about cereal.
I think it's merely a gateway to bigger talking points like vaccination.
Brett Cooper, who is another conservative media personality and buds with Alex Clark, articulates it succinctly and quickly in a September 2024 episode on her The Comment Section YouTube channel.
Brett is a fast talker, so buckle up.
Obviously, we talk about it a lot on the show, but women especially are waking up to big food and big pharma and the impact that it's had on their health and the knowledge about what's going on in their bodies.
And now, things that I used to say are things that I learned growing up with my very black sheep mother.
Things that were once fringe that she literally got attacked for and mocked for doing with her kids are now commonly discussed online.
And sometimes I'll see these in, you know, the crunchy corners of the internet with the crunchy moms that I follow.
And sometimes they're coming from the political conservatives that I follow.
But these days, those corners of the internet, those lines seem to be getting increasingly blurred.
But again, I want to go back to this idea of a mama bear and her cubs and a mom's instinct to protect her children.
I mean, one of the first decisions that a new mom has to make is about infant vaccines.
I mean, women go from knowing virtually nothing on the subject to having to become experts overnight in an attempt to know what's best for their babies and to be able to advocate for them in the face of these relentless doctors, relentless nurses, relentless medical industrial complex, and their all-knowing family members who are then going to shame them for vaccinating or not vaccinating their kids.
And as a result, more and more women are stumbling down this big pharma rabbit hole.
For me, beneath the terror of what's ahead, there is a deep curiosity to see what this Maha movement propped up by women and mamas accomplishes, for better or worse.
I think this Maha focus on mamas isn't just for current moms.
Half the folks I mentioned today aren't mothers themselves.
It's also for folks who want to be mothers, grandmothers, folks who know mothers, maybe folks who are married to mothers.
But it's not actually about any of them or even the mamas.
It's actually about the kids.
What kids unknowingly participating in this movement are fed, exposed to, protected from, not protected from.
Listeners, meet Amber Lee Skye, formerly Amber Lee Spears, and my understanding is that her and JP are currently in the middle of a very lengthy and expensive divorce.
Amber posted in late October about her son having whooping cough.
Amber, who is likely familiar to a lot of listeners of this podcast, has 64,000 Instagram followers and is someone who was certainly mega before, but has totally embraced the Make America Healthy Again movement, which I think completely makes sense.
On Instagram stories, she shared how her son had been battling whooping cough for six weeks and had contracted RSV that week.
She detailed how air that had escaped his lungs was mistaken for swelling, how his lungs were damaged and needed to heal, but they can't heal quickly because of the cough, how the slow-moving recovery was extremely frustrating, how there was a nationwide spiking whooping cough impacting kids, and how it's extremely aggressive.
She quickly followed that Instagram story slide with another that said, P.S., Anyone can catch whoop and cough no matter their vaccine emoji status, just like many other 100% safe and effective shots.
This highlights what I can't stand about these influencers.
No one ever said any vaccine is 100% effective.
That's never been the case.
Credible scientists never claimed it was the case.
This is purely an influencer and contrarian talking point, not a scientific one.
So let's look at this for a moment.
When it comes to the DTaP vaccine, the P standing for pertussis or whooping cough, that vaccine protects about 98% of children who get all five doses.
In adults, the TDaP booster protects about 70% of people who receive it.
And a few hours after this episode recording, I'm going to get mine because I haven't gotten boosted in a while, so it reminded me that I need to.
And yeah, the names between the child and adult ones are slightly different because the formulation is different.
DTAP stands for depteria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis, while T-TAP is tetanus, depteria, and acellular pertussis.
Tdap is for use by people 7 and older, and the naming conventions highlight that Tdap contains lower doses of diphtheria and pertussis components compared to DTaP.
This reduction is appropriate for older children and adults who have already built up immunity from childhood vaccines and only need a booster to maintain protection.
So when these influencers say, I don't have time to do the research, there you go, 60 seconds, now you know what the fucking boosters are for.
Now, before the vaccine became available in the 1940s, pertussis was a leading cause of childhood illness and death in the United States.
In the early 20th century, it killed five out of every thousand children before their fifth birthday.
Once vaccines were introduced, that number fell by 90%.
So once again, the influencers spouting this nonsense are beneficiaries of a public health initiative that has saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives over the last century, but they don't have to even realize that, which is why, as with so much in wellness, it is a blind privilege.
Yeah, and just to add to that, Derek, not only is it a fallacy, is it a false claim that anyone is saying all vaccines are 100% effective, there's also a flattening of the field.
Some are more effective than others.
Some have been wildly successful in saving millions of lives over time, like the one you just mentioned.
And I also have to say, from now on, my nickname for you is DTAP. Yeah, and the privilege you're leaving off with, Derek, I think is particularly sort of visible when we're talking about Amber Lee, And I hope their child recovers quickly.
Who, you know, when all is said and done, does have the resources to have that hospital stay.
You know, even though maybe the precautions weren't taken before.
But, you know, as we round up, Mallory, you've compiled great material once again.
I wanted to just sort of flag something that came up, I think, in the second clip.
I forget what her name was, but it's part of a trend that I just wanted to comment on before we leave.
And that's that, and, you know, you spoke to this in your last statement, Mallory, that when the concern revolves around children, I think it's really important to look at how the children are spoken about and,
And one of the things that really kind of alarms me about this discourse is the usage of anecdotes about the kids that really kind of prove the nobility of the mama bear, but with a kind of super simplistic reasoning.
So I forget who it was who talked about primarily being motivated to vote for Trump because she was otherwise politically ambivalent because she didn't like the grocery store snacks that the public school provided for her daughter.
And so she made this claim that we hear over and over again that these foods aggravate the children.
They hop the children up.
They give them a sugar rush.
Now, I am not the science person on this podcast.
I don't know enough about the science of all of this to speak to the chemistry that they are assuming is the problem.
And I think, you know, they're overblowing it or it's, you know, misinformed entirely.
But what I do know is that reasons for children to be agitated are literally infinite.
And many of them have to do with the attunement of their caregivers.
You know, is the kid dysregulated by red dye?
Or was it the crushing boredom of school?
Or was it some weird kind of bullying she can't process?
Or, you know, a wrangly sibling?
Or when you picked her up, were you impatient as you yoinked her to piano lessons and then on to ballet?
Like we don't know anything about the actual situation in any of these homes, except what the influencer wants to tell us that she's found to be the root of the trouble in something about food dye or, you know, it could be sugar or no weight.
It's vaccines, which is really easy to complain about.
And if you elect Bobby, you can do something about it.
And what bothers me is that I think there is a growing accumulation of displaced worry targets about kids who may actually be telling us something else about their experience of relationships and social pressures and maybe even the rush of capitalism itself.
I mean, I just want to add, sorry, Mallory, that is political demagoguery and populism as it appears in health discourse and as it appears in parenting discourse.
Let's come up with the simple answer that we can all rally behind for why the kid is not being the way that we think they're supposed to be being.
I just want to say here too, Matthew, that what you said about Amberlee Skye...
And having the resources.
She has those resources for her kid to be hospitalized.
And yes, hopefully to get better really quickly.
Ironically, because of all of the misinformation that she has participated in spreading that is probably endangering other kids who may not have those resources.
Like her and JP Sears have become millionaires on their very lucrative spread of Disinformation and conspiracism.
And that's why her kid will probably survive.
And that really gets my goat.
While the Maha movement attracted folks from every walk of life, it's hard to ignore how it seems to be made for mothers.
Sorry, mama bears.
Instagram content creator Echo Unafraid articulated this in a November 15th post of this year that says, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was not Trump-appointed.
He was mother-appointed.
This has been years in the making and we have fought tooth and nail to get our voices heard.
You try and mute us and we get louder.
You come between us and our children, we get fierce.
There's then a photo of a lion and a cub, which, surprise, is another animal comparison used in this space.
For me, again, behind the heartbreak is a deep curiosity to see how this all unfolds for them.
The mama bears, maha mamas, mamas and their cubs.
What lies ahead for them?
And maybe more importantly, what actually lies ahead for their children?
Thank you for listening to another episode of Conspirituality.
We'll see you here next Thursday for another main feed episode.
