While speaking on Steve Bannon’s podcast, The War Room, Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts recently stated, “We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless—if the left allows it to be.”
Roberts is the mastermind behind Project 2025, Heritage’s 920-page “presidential transition” agenda that seeks to implement authoritarian power in America. The text combines the anti-regulatory stance of libertarianism, laissez faire capitalism on steroids as espoused by conservatives, and the heinous and anti-democratic religious dogma of Christian nationalists, and it’s finally receiving a lot of attention.
Derek and Julian look beyond the “bloodless” comment to hear what else Roberts and crew have in store for America should Donald Trump regain the presidency. As you might imagine, it has nothing to do with democracy.
Show Notes
Taraji P Henson Calls Out Project 2025 at BET Awards
‘Complete and utter B.S.’: Trump DEFINITELY knows his own team authoring Project 2025
Kevin Roberts on The War Room
Conspirituality 187: Project 2025: An Authoritarian Conspiracy
Project 2025's Disdain for Public Education
The GOP Thinks Food Stamps Are the Real Problem
The GOP Takeover of Media
The Plan to Dismantle Health Care
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All right, Julian, we've been covering Project 2025 since late last year on this podcast.
And since we found out about this nearly a year ago, we knew the threat that this document presented to American democracy.
So I'm pretty happy that this 920 page agenda, which combines the anti-regulatory stance of libertarianism, and I know some libertarians have been on our feed saying, this isn't libertarian.
And I would just say, first off, read the fucking document.
And second, Read the history of the libertarian movement since the 1970s, because it very much is rooted in that.
It also combines this laissez-faire capitalism on steroids, as espoused by conservatives, and the heinous and anti-democratic religious dogma of Christian nationalists, all under the rubric of the Heritage Foundation.
And it's finally receiving a lot of attention.
Yeah, we've been warning about this for a while.
It's suddenly everywhere.
I think it's in light of the tear of what the SCOTUS has been doing in the last few months, especially with this crazy presidential immunity decision, but also that perverse bump stock reversal, which seems to only guarantee higher death counts when lunatics go on killing sprees.
So good job on that, Christians.
And then most recently, the Chevron ruling.
News outlets are finally connecting the dots on the realities of this court and the people around Trump and the plans already in place, as outlined in Project 2025.
And these are all very intimately connected.
Giving broader immunity to the president really clears the way for him to dodge any current legal obstacles to both retaking the White House and then enacting this radical authoritarian agenda.
And that's not hyperbole.
This is the tough thing about this.
It also significantly weakens the separation of powers that guards against tyrannical abuse while gaslighting us that SCOTUS is trying to protect against tyrannical abuse.
Oh, and yeah, it blunts the process of holding January 6th insurrectionists accountable.
Now as to the Chevron ruling, that overturns precedent established in 1984 that requires the court to defer to the career and academic experts in government agencies.
So bottom line, the conservative majority with ties to the GOP billionaire donor class can now overrule measures that protect the environment and the public from completely unfettered capitalism.
It's one of those dismantling the administrative state goals, which Steve Bannon identified back in 2017 from the CPAC stage.
And it's coming to pass even as he begins a four-month jail sentence.
So that's a little preview of what we'll be unpacking.
So stay tuned, everyone.
You mentioned bump stock reversals.
I'll be sharing after we record this, actually on our Instagram, a clip of RFK Jr.
telling Dr. Phil that the uptick in shootings is because of antidepressants.
He said this before, but it's now back in circulation.
He just did it again.
And it's pretty amazing to see Dr. Phil, of all people, fact check him in real time and his response.
So people can go to our Instagram to see that.
But back to Project 2025.
I think a big part of the reason it is getting attention is because of the actress Taraji P. Henson, because she recently said this in the middle of the BET Awards.
Time for us to play chess, not checkers.
It's about making decisions that will affect us as human beings, our careers, our next generations to come.
Did you know that it is now a crime to be homeless?
Pay attention.
It's not a secret.
Look it up.
They are attacking our most vulnerable citizens.
The Project 2025 plan is not a game.
Look it up!
Okay, amazing job.
So happy that that received that much attention and good for her.
And a few days after that happened, Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts spoke on Steve Bannon's The War Room podcast, and this one was hosted by former Virginia Congressman David Bratt, since, as you mentioned, Julian Bannon is doing time in jail at the moment.
And I'll get to those comments in a few moments, but after Roberts' not-so-veiled threat was published, Trump and his associates like Stephen Miller and VP Pick Me Marco Rubio immediately distanced themselves from Project 2025, and Trump said he knew nothing about it.
But let's hear Ali Velshi break down the reality of that.
So we set out to debunk it.
And honestly, I thought there might be a little more legwork involved in spelling out the web of connections between Donald Trump and Project 2025.
But then I realized, all you have to do is look at the table of contents of Project 2025.
Let's literally go through it.
The author of each section is listed right here, and I'm just going to list them.
Forward, a promise to America written by Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation.
Trump has name-checked the Heritage Foundation several times, including just a few months ago when he wrote that Roberts, quote, should keep going and get the word out.
Chapter one on the White House office was written by Rick Dearborn, Trump's former White House deputy chief of staff.
Chapter 2 on the Executive Office of the President of the United States was written by Russell Vogt, who is Trump's former director of the Office of Management and Budget.
Chapter 3 on managing the bureaucracy was co-written by former advisor to Ronald Reagan, Donald Devine, along with Dennis Dean Kirk, a Trump nominee for the chair of the Merit Systems Protection Board, and Paul Danz, a Trump appointee to the U.S.
Office of Personnel Management.
Paul Danz is the director Now, this entire clip I just borrowed from is four minutes.
You should really watch all of it.
It only took a little bit of it.
And I've linked to it in the show notes because this was just a taste.
Now, the seeds of Project 2025, if you aren't aware, were planted in 2021 when Kevin Roberts assumed the role of president of the Heritage Foundation.
And the document has four pillars.
So, pillar one is a mandate for leadership.
It's a 30 chapter, 920 page downloadable document that features contributions from over 450 conservative and religious authors.
And the document lays out every policy and agency change the group aspires to implement.
It is anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ+, anti-healthcare, anti-education, anti-labor organizing, anti-democratic, to say the least.
Now, we covered this entire document with a broad overview in episode 187 in January, and Julian, you and I have broken down four individual chapters on Patreon, and we have two more coming up in the coming weeks.
Pillar two, people are policy.
This is the administration selection process, which involves vetting people who will serve under the next conservative president without question, implementing all of their directives, or if you hear Robert say it, all of his directives.
It also involves turning non-partisan government roles into partisan roles in order to fire thousands of employees and then put in lackeys.
And we read the questionnaire on episode 187, and that's the questions that they ask people to make sure they're on board with what Heritage is pushing.
They want absolute, complete, unquestioning loyalty at every level of government, essentially, right?
Yes, correct.
If you answer these questions incorrectly, you will not get the call back for the job.
That is true.
Now, pillar three is training, which is after the vetting process, these selected candidates will undergo training to make sure they're in lockstep with Heritage every step of the way.
And Pillar 4 is the Executive Orders, and Project 2025 relies on a debated legal tactic called the Unitary Executive Theory, which in short means that they claim the Constitution grants all power of government in America to the president or the executive,
and that all laws they want passed should be accomplished through executive orders, bypassing
the other branches of government.
We'll get to that in a few moments. So Kevin Roberts, who created the concept of Project
2025, is getting a lot of heat for recent podcast appearance.
And during the clip that a lot of people have heard, he says, we are in the process of the second American revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.
Oh, mask off, just mask off, right?
Yes.
I just read that because it's pretty much been everywhere since.
And that's a lot, but there was another like 12 to 14 minutes in that podcast appearance, and he revealed some key points about Project 2025, which you and I will now unpack.
So after asking Roberts to unpack what Heritage is doing to protect America, Roberts then talks about Trump v. United States, which is the recent SCOTUS ruling, which grants immunity to any former president That Supreme Court ruling yesterday on immunity is vital.
And it's vital for a lot of reasons, but I would go to Federalist No.
Trump immediately seized on this ruling to basically claim that anything he's ever done
70.
in his life is an official act.
So here's Roberts.
That Supreme Court ruling yesterday on immunity is vital and it's vital for a lot of reasons,
but I would go to Federalist number 70.
If people in the audience are looking for something to read over Independence Day weekend,
in addition to rereading the Declaration of Independence, read Hamilton's number 70 because
there, along with some other essays in some other essays, he talks about the importance
of a vigorous executive.
You know, former congressman, the importance of Congress doing its job.
But we also know the importance of the executive being able to do his job.
Yeah.
I mean, these guys rely on a lot of pious legal and historical posturing around the founding documents, while actually cynically contradicting the actual lines of reasoning, the spirit of those documents in terms of what they represent.
The checks and balances that have allowed American democracy not only to last as long as it has and to be an inspiration to so much of the world, despite the many imperfections and problems, But to also evolve and improve over time.
And these require limiting the kinds of power held by a monarch or a pope so as not to be vulnerable to authoritarianism.
But as with any flawed and outdated scripture, power-hungry ideologues like the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society and Roberts here can always advance interpretations that fit their agenda.
And I just want to add here that the strategy we've been witnessing now, it really goes quite far back.
I mean, we can say 2016, we can say even earlier than that, is to continuously accuse Democrats and people on the left of doing exactly what they're doing.
They're going to say, you want to steal the election?
Then they try to steal the election.
You want to overthrow democracy?
Then they try to overthrow democracy.
You want Biden to be able to weaponize the justice system?
Oh, we're going to weaponize the justice system.
You think Biden shouldn't be held accountable for his crimes?
Well, we're going to, we're going to make sure that Trump never gets prosecuted for his crimes.
One of the chapters we're breaking down in the coming weeks on Patreon is the Department of Labor chapter.
It was written by Jonathan Berry from the Federalist Society.
And this chapter, they want to do away with overtime pay.
They like forget unionizing and any labor rights.
And that's just that's just part of it.
But in the intro to that chapter, Barry references Genesis and the Bible as being the work ethic of America.
So yes, these guys are always looking back.
I mean, the Federalist Papers were written in 1787 to 1788, and men like Barry and like Roberts get such a hard-on for those errors when civil rights weren't a thing, feminism wasn't even dreamed of, and the mad rush to colonize this land was just beginning.
I kind of want my understanding of reality and society to evolve, however.
But this idea is important to note because the premise of Project 2025 is the implementation of the Unitary Executive Theory, as I referenced.
Granting a president immunity from potential war crimes and potential domestic crimes fits into this ethos of an authoritarian ruler.
So next up in the podcast, Robert's remarks on the Chevron decision, which effectively defanged government agencies from instituting regulations on the environment, on the healthcare, basically on any regulations.
As momentous as the Dobbs decision of a couple of years ago, because what it is going to do, the result it is going to have, Is that it is going to return the power to the people.
It is going to devolve power from Washington, D.C., not just to the states, but to individual Americans.
And I think of all of the Supreme Court sessions in my lifetime, obviously the one where Dobbs was passed is number one.
This is the second most important, and it is vital to the survival of this republic.
We ought to be celebrating this this summer.
Wow.
So just like overturning Roe versus Wade was an empowering decision that brings everything that brings power back to the people in the same way Chevron does this.
Now, this is, you know, we get kind of wonky with this kind of stuff.
It's really important for you to understand this has Very real world implications for real people.
What he's saying is absolutely false.
Revoking the Chevron decision does not return power to the people, unless by the people, we mean the oil companies and other corporate interests who don't want climate measures.
Or other environmental concerns getting in the way of more record profits as the world burns.
It means more interference by a court system now stacked by Leonard Leo, and I've covered this in some bonus episodes, and the smoothly oiled alliance of ultra conservative libertarian cash rich think tanks that often are funneling money through through shell companies and doing all the kind of dark money maneuvers to get their influence in place.
And this is all about their influence on policies and legislations that impact everything from gun regulations to air and water quality to childhood vaccine requirements.
It renders the recommendations from the FDA and the CDC on supplements, on new drugs, on how to handle, say, the next pandemic if we have one, absolutely toothless in the face of challenges from political and financial interests.
Even the name Chevron tells you what it's about.
And on this Monday, we're covering the chapter on the Environmental Protection Agency.
And surprise, it was written by a climate change denier.
So it's a lot of fun to read.
I know you're looking forward to this one, Julian.
So, let's get into the last clip.
It is about the separation of church and state, or as Bratt puts it, the supposed separation of church and state.
This one is a little longer, but I really feel that it's worth playing in full to hear just how detailed this plan is.
That's the concept of a strong moral fiber for this country.
We all know the famous phrases, this republic was built On the understanding that we had a Judeo-Christian tradition in place and that it required a strong moral people to sustain itself.
And so now we're at a point where the left is just going histrionics on overreach stories about SEAL Team Sixes and whatever.
There's no trust.
They have no trust.
Uh, in anyone anymore.
And I think that hints to, you know, the 40 or 50 year project in academia, where they have gutted Judeo-Christian religion cannot be taught whatsoever.
There's this supposed separation of church and state.
But even more problematic, there's no morality whatsoever.
If you're in a K-12 school, there's no moral system that's taught.
And so, what's the role of the Heritage Foundation in your messaging on the absolute necessity of having a strong moral people to continue this great republic?
The Heritage Foundation would lean on Alexis de Tocqueville, who 200 years ago said, to paraphrase him, if you have a problem with politics in the United States, don't look at the structure of government as the problem.
In fact, America's constitutional republic is about as close to perfect as you can get on this side of
heaven, but instead look in the mirror, which was his way of saying that the only way you can
secure the promises of that constitutional structure is if you live a life in virtue. And one of the
key ways, the key way, we believe in the Judeo-Christian tradition to live a life of virtue is
to know God.
And obviously, in the United States, we're religiously pluralistic.
People can worship as they would like.
They can go to the church of their choice.
But we're all united by not just our monotheism, Dave, as you know, but by the belief, as the ancient Hebrews showed us in Jerusalem, that God's law can, in fact, be a huge influence on the civil laws that we pass.
All of that to say, one of the main problems, in fact, I would argue the main problem facing the United States as it enters This really pivotal period is that we have a decline in religiosity and I tell not just broad audiences but even conservative audiences around the country that if you want to save this country, there is going to have to be a third Great Awakening.
We've had two in our country's history and for people who don't like the sound of that because they don't like organized religion, it's the only way we're going to be able to save this republic.
Yeah, once again, false.
It's amazing hearing this kind of Christian apologetics this close to the halls of power.
The founding documents explicitly required separation of church and state.
Yes, it means you're free to believe that you have to know God in order to be a good person and have a strong country, but you can't teach that in schools.
You can't make it a requirement to serve in government.
You can't impose it on the rest of society.
Which is exactly what these Christian nationalists want to do, as we've already seen in Louisiana, requiring official posters of the Biblical Ten Commandments to be on the walls in every classroom in the state.
You know, Derek, we have a lot of discussions on this podcast about religious belief and the real world impacts of various kinds of religious metaphysics.
Are there reasonable and tolerant religious people?
Why, of course.
But the emergence and the persistence of religious tolerance and pluralism is only possible in societies with separation of church and state.
So, actual Enlightenment values defang theocratic power and its political and financial dominance, which used to be enacted by a monarchy.
Historically, the Pope and the King were two sides of the same coin.
The Enlightenment-inspired tenets of America's founding documents defang that power and make provisions for moderate religion within civil society, where no one is imposing their faith on anyone else.
Regarding calls for another Great Awakening, Let's not forget that this meme was already resurrected by QAnon adherents and by prominent conspiritualists, as we've covered, like Dr. Christiane Northrup.
It's actually in the title of Mickey Willis's third Plandemic film, Plandemic 3, The Great Awakening.
It actually has an important historical reference point, and this is what Robert is getting at here.
I've done a lot of work for our Patreon and Apple subscription supporters on the earlier Great Awakenings of the 18th and 19th centuries, that's what he's referring to, and their links to today's political religion.
And there's two things that I really want to say about that.
First, if you spend even 10 minutes looking into it, the really significant second Great Awakening in 19th century America actually starts off as very politically progressive.
They wanted to abolish slavery.
They wanted to give women more power and equality, which is ironic to say the least given what this court is trying to do.
Because they believe that we need hundreds of years, at least, of Christ-like love and peace before he would come back to Earth.
And then second, for reasons that people can find out about in those bonus episode deep dives if they want to go have a look... It's pretty amazing that the guy who called for revolution against the state would require centuries of love before returning, since his entire thing is reforming society.
Yeah.
Now, second, for reasons that people can find out about in those bonus episodes that I've been referencing, if they want to have a look, the Second Great Awakening ended up being characterized by not only charismatic prophecy and a kind of hysterical religious fervor, but also the kind of apocalyptic messaging which actually seeks to hasten a glorious cataclysmic holy war that cleanses the world with fire.
to usher in God's kingdom.
It's a different mood than the mood of like, we need hundreds of years of peace and love.
It's like, no, bring an axe, bring the fire, cleanse the sanctuary, right?
And this is why so many American fundamentalist Christians support Israel passionately.
It's not because of Judeo-Christian values and their respect for the Old Testament.
It's because they believe that the prophecy of Christ's second coming requires a massive war in Israel.
And also that all Jews will be destroyed unless they convert when the Savior finally returns.
So bottom line here, Chief Justice Roberts is not just talking about more people embracing love thy neighbor, you know, nice strong moral values and a kind society and go into their local church in a pious way on Sunday when he uses this language.
He's evoking something a lot more ominous.
So dozens of organizations, which you can read in the very first pages of Project 2025.
As I mentioned earlier, 450 contributors and authors thought about this document and added to it.
It's really important to note that they all unified to do this because there are some very basic fundamental principles that they agree on.
And that's pretty scary because that is the consolidation of power that leads to authoritarian rule.
And I know that Democrats are having a moment right now of existential crisis.
It kind of frightens me when I see people say, don't entertain the any idea or talk of it not being Biden.
Because from what I've seen and read, most people just want to defeat the very thing we're covering today.
And there's no there's no guarantee on and any person can do it at this moment.
But The fact that people are having a vigorous debate about what the best path forward is, is a mark of democracy.
You might not agree with Biden getting out of the race, you might want to see him out of the race, but either way, these conversations are the antithesis of what's happening here in Project 2025, and we can't lose sight of that.
Four months, as Jon Stewart said earlier this week, is an eternity.
The reason we think it's so close is because we basically have politicians who are in election cycles every moment of every day, and that's part of the problem.
So, if we want reform, let's at least entertain conversations wherever you happen to fall on it, because the opposite of that is what we've spent so much time covering here, and this just blind allegiance and adherence to these projects, like Project 2025, will be what brings down democracy, and we can't fall victim to that.
