Bonus Sample: Public Theology and Hospice Care (w/Jude Mills)
In this Listener Stories episode, Matthew sits down with Jude Mills, an old friend from the yoga world, to hear her story about growing up in an anti-theist home in hyper-sectarian Scotland, but feeling the inexorable call of religion. So started a long journey toward her vocation as a hospice chaplain at the height of COVID.
They discuss the needs of the dying, regardless of beliefs, and how losing dignity to institutional abuse does not necessarily mean losing faith. In discussing how some former believers feel excluded from community life, Jude says something remarkable: “Everyone has a right to a sacramental life.”
Jude has a Master’s degree in Public Theology and research interests which include: podcasting as a medium for theological reflection and enquiry; narratives of spiritual and religious abuse and harm and issues of disabled, neurodivergent and LGBTQ+ inclusivity in church contexts. Her podcast 'Fkd Up By Faith' will be the research subject for her PhD.
Show Notes
Jude's website
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
To support independent media, access our entire catalogue of bonus episodes, and listen to everything ad-free, please visit patreon.com slash conspirituality.
You can also access these full bonus episodes on Apple Podcasts.
Thank you for your support.
And then there are the things that, in my experience, everybody seeks.
As they approach the end of their life, whether they're religious or not.
And that's why good spiritual care, I'm a real, such an advocate for good spiritual care.
The first thing is confession.
This is almost universal.
People want to tell you things.
I would have a chaplain's badge on, so whether they were religious or not, people told me stuff that they never told anybody else.
Wow.
If they were religious, that might be bringing in a priest for the sacramental aspect of that.
But I do believe that confession has a sacramental element, whether You know, there's a guy there with a collar and anointing oil or not.
The other aspect of that, of course, is the absolution, is the forgiveness, or more importantly, I think, finding a way to let the person offer that to themselves.
And then there's the, which is something which is rather overlooked when we talk about spiritual care, is that people when they're dying do actually really want to talk about big stuff.
So, you know, Quite complex theological stuff.
Where am I going?
What's death like?
Am I going to heaven?
Am I going to hell?
Why would God let this happen?
Which was never my favourite question, but we tackled it anyway.
And all of those questions require a depth of theological training.
And this is another reason why I went on to do that graduate degree.
I need to understand this stuff better.
It needs something that a counsellor or a death doula, God bless them, just doesn't have.
You know, if somebody said, Am I going to hell?
I mean, you might be able to have a good stab at it coming from a Catholic background, but if you didn't have a religious background, you might be inclined to say, of course not.
But if that person fundamentally believes, because of their upbringing, that that might be a possibility, I need to be able to tackle that in a way that's theologically sensitive and explore it, because that person really believes that thing, even if I, in my heart of hearts, know that hell isn't even a thing.
This is very profound because what you're saying is that this is not a place, it's not a site of proselytization.
Absolutely not.
No.
And actually most places have a policy against it.
But in either direction?
That if you come across somebody who is tortured by the theology that they were inculcated with at the end of their life, that actually they're not going to be helped by having it sort of hand-waved away.
Absolutely not.
It has to be engaged somehow.
And it would have to be engaged by the chaplain regardless of whether the chaplain felt okay about it or not, I suppose, right?
Like that's the real therapeutic task.
Wow.
I've been asked all sorts of things that I'm not I'm not OK about.
But, you know, it would be abdicating my responsibility to walk away from it.
Or to imply, oh, you're wrong to ask that.
Yes.
Or there isn't a hell, which is what I believe.
I mean, that's what I believe.
And I might relay that to the person at some point during the conversation.
I might say, I personally don't believe in such a place.
But I understand that, you know, this is where you've come to and let's talk about it.
Let's talk about what that means and why you think that that might be a possibility for you.
And that, you know, it doesn't just require pastoral sensitivity.
I understood very quickly when I was exposed to that that I needed to know the theology.
