Not just in America, but all over the world, young women have become far more left-wing, while men are staying the same or swerving right. What happened? An X user named Vittorio had a viral article explaining it that collected more than 30 million views. He joins to discuss the intersection of social media, smartphones, and social pressure that sent millions of young women off the deep end. Sean Davis discusses the left's all-out assault in Virginia and grades the first year of Trump 2.0. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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All right, welcome back.
Hour two of the Charlie Kirk Show is underway, and we have Sean Davis, co-founder and CEO of the Federalists, joining us.
Sean, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
Good to have you, my friend.
Good to be back.
Thank you.
I called you about this story because I am raising a five-alarm fire for the state of Virginia.
What is happening there, I think, is a precursor that portends ill for the entire country, especially with the midterms.
You get a lot of people talking about, oh, I don't feel good about the midterms.
I think we can win the midterms.
I think the economic numbers are going to give us win to our sales, but it's going to be an uphill battle.
Plus, you got the Senate races, you got House races that are going to be hotly contested, governor's mansions, all of those races in between.
Democrats In Power00:11:18
Tell us about Virginia.
You've spent a lot of time in Virginia.
Your partner Molly's based in Virginia, I believe, over at the Federalist.
And I mean, we all have a lot of friends there.
This is bad.
What they are doing in a matter of days, this is like the shock and awe first hundred days of the Trump administration, only Democrat style in a blue state that only went for Kamala Harris by six points.
With a legislature that will pass things.
With a legislature that will high-minded Democrats will actually pass things, unlike, you know, our rowdy bunch of congressional folks that are very independent-minded.
Sean, what do you make of this?
Yeah, Virginia is fascinating because yes, in presidentials, it's been blue, I think, since 08, but it's not that blue of a state.
So they just had a red governor in Glenn Youngkin for four years.
It's not uncommon for them to have red majorities in the state legislature in either house.
So this isn't a massive blue state like a Vermont or a Massachusetts or New York.
It's actually pretty purple.
A lot of people like to analogize it to Colorado.
It's not.
It's definitely more towards the center than Colorado, but it's faced a similar takeover.
And I think what's happening there is a major microcosm, a really important microcosm for what's happening in the country writ large.
And you're seeing it in this woman, Abigail Spamberger, a career Democrat, was a former CIA stooge.
She presents as a moderate.
Oh, look, I'm just like a pretty blonde, nice, moderate lady, when she is a radical left-wing ideologue.
And when she came in, despite Virginia not being a super blue state, she does what Democrats always do because Democrats understand power.
She's going in, and even though she only got, you know, we'll say like 55% of the vote, whatever it is, she's not saying, oh, we're only going to do 55% of what we want.
We are going to do 100% what we want because you can't do anything to stop it.
And it's scary because the Democrat Party's become so radical.
It's abortion on demand.
It's gutting a law that protected babies who survived abortions.
It's making illegal immigration enforcement illegal itself.
It's making the whole state a sanctuary.
It's banning guns.
It's doing speech crackdowns.
When Democrats get in power because they understand power, they wield it ruthlessly.
And quite honestly, as horrifying as I find what she's doing, I'm honestly jealous because I would love to have a party representing me all throughout Washington, not just in the White House, that understands power, how to attain it, how to maintain it, and how to wield it.
Because the Democrats are putting on an absolute clinic in what you actually do when you're in power.
Yeah, that's really well said.
Sean, we were talking during, so you've seen all the abortion stuff, but this really remarkable one that was introduced yesterday, which it would only, it's a simple bill to rewrite that when a state agency is administering federal funds, they are not allowed to impose a requirement on nonprofits to check whether anyone receiving a benefit is eligible for that benefit.
Which is remarkable.
So their lesson that they are gleaning from the Somali fraud scheme that has robbed U.S. taxpayers of probably anywhere between 10 and 19, 20 billion dollars and counting.
We'll see how big it gets when we start uncovering Washington.
We start uncovering Maine.
I'm told there are new immigration crackdowns happening in Maine right now targeting the Somali community.
But their takeaway from this is that we want to block oversight.
We want to block accountability.
And I just cannot get over this, Sean, that anything we do, even if it makes sense, even if we cure cancer, their party's reaction is to run the other way and to just put their head in the sand, complete ostrich, act like it didn't happen, and defend what they think are their values.
What are their values here, Sean?
That they like fraud?
That they like misuse of taxpayer funding?
And there has to be a federal response to stuff that is this insane.
But I don't know if this is a psychological dilemma.
I don't know if this is something that needs to be studied from a sociological level, but this is patently insane.
And I cannot, for the life of me, look at what Donald Trump and the president, immigration, economic, what we're accomplishing, and see why they hate it so much.
Oh, I think it's easy.
It's an uncomfortable answer, but it's an easy one in that it's entirely spiritual.
If you look at something and you want to figure out which one is the good side and which is the bad side, look at the side that wants things to be ugly and chaotic and disorderly and manic.
That's the bad side.
Look at the side that wants to make things beautiful, that believes in order and putting things where they belong.
That's the good side.
And it's because the good reflects our creator who is perfect and good and orderly.
We worship and we were made by a God of order, not a God of chaos.
So I think it is absolutely spiritual at its very core.
And we're never going to get around that.
So often we try to talk around it and be like, well, it's about ideologies and philosophies and blah, blah, blah.
That's all downstream from your worldview, which is built on a foundation of where you see yourself in the cosmic order, whether you believe in a great creator, whether you believe in inherent good and inherent evil.
The Democrat Party is evil.
Let's just come out and say it.
It's evil.
It's why it wants to kill babies.
It's why it wants to eviscerate borders.
It's why it wants to eliminate mandatory minimum sentence for rapists, for child exploiters, for people who attack cops, for people guilty of manslaughter and murder.
And I will say on Spam Burger, again, Democrats understand power.
You'll hear Republicans when they get in power because they're terrified of wielding it say things like, well, politics is the art of the possible.
And they'll lecture you very smugly on it.
No, it's not.
Politics is about rewarding your friends and punishing your enemies.
And the Democrats do it brilliantly.
So the foreigners, the Somalis, the scamsters, the fraudsters, that is the Democrat Party's base.
That is who is being rewarded here.
The Democrat Party cannot exist without shipping these people in, making them rich, and getting them to use their fraud bucks to elect more Democrats.
So that's what they're doing.
And again, there is a lesson here for Republicans to learn.
I'm sure they're going to learn the wrong one.
But the lesson here is when you get in power, you wield it ruthlessly and you support the people who put you there.
Yeah, I mean, listen, you know, probably I'm naive, Sean, but when you say that politics is about punishing your enemies and rewarding your friends, there's like this part of me that, you know, remembers, you know, watching the World War II movies and the John Wayne movies and like, I gotta think, you know, that we as Americans can, you know, band together at some sort of elevated pitch than that because, man, that's that's a really dark reality.
I don't disagree with you functionally.
You know, I think of this in terms of the American empire, right?
Like, you know, listen, we're gonna, we're gonna exert our force abroad because we're the most powerful and we're gonna take care of our own our own people.
I totally get that.
But when you come to the domestic front, but you hope that it's gonna be different, but it's hard to disagree with you, man.
It's hard to disagree with you that when you are confronted by an ideological force that is so dark that is killing babies, that wants chaos, that wants criminals on its streets.
I mean, this is what they're doing.
They're defending criminal illegals that are child rapist.
They're very evil.
I actually will, I actually do a little disagree with this.
You hear this.
It's all about rewarding friends, punishing enemies.
It's this Carl Schmidt thing.
We can talk about him sometime.
You've sparked a debate here.
Oh, it definitely will.
It definitely will.
But I think it is important to message, like, don't be a wuss.
Don't be a coward.
And, like, actually think about what you're able to do because Republicans love to just be inert.
They're kind of lazy.
It's like, think about all the DEI departments that just sat around and read states forever.
That's not, you don't need to frame that in terms of, oh, reward allies punish enemies.
You just frame that in terms of don't don't be an idiot.
Don't do things that are obviously against your values.
But they're not lazy.
Ask Zelensky how lazy they are.
They will shovel bucks at America into that little midget's mouth faster than you can blink.
They're not lazy.
They're cowards.
And they have a very different idea of who they're supposed to be serving than we are.
And I think that's the main problem.
Yeah, and by the way, Sean, I completely agree with you.
This is a spiritual war.
I've got a clip from Charlie teed up that we're going to play on the other side of his break that underscores your point.
And I completely agree.
At some level, the insanity just becomes so brazen and so, you know, nonsensical that it's what it has to be.
It's demonic.
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All right, Sean Davis, just to underscore your point, you are the co-founder and CEO of the Federalist, great publication.
I check it every day.
That is not a lie.
You guys are doing amazing work.
Huge service to our country.
I'm going to play, this is Charlie with Tucker talking about this exact thing, 351.
This is why your faith is the most important thing.
Because for those of us that are Christians, you actually see what's going on, which is that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and darkness and spirits, that there is a spiritual war here.
There is a God, and we are not him.
That there is an entire dimension of angels and demons and spirits that are constantly struggling around us, and that there is a supernatural dimension.
Charlie was super tuned into this.
I think we are as well here, Sean.
So I totally agree.
I don't know how else you explain the insanity that we've lived under.
And it almost feels like in the era of Trump, it's like the demons are shrieking.
And so now they're just, it's like total mask off.
The veil is torn.
They're out in the open amongst us.
Year in Review: Nuke the Filibuster00:05:08
Because how else do you explain the radicalness and the brazenness of a D plus six state going full Marxist, going full Marxist?
But I digress.
Sean, unless you want to chime in on that.
But I do want to talk about the year in review.
For me, kind of the, it was made obvious as the whole trans thing reared its disgusting little head.
If you can't agree on just the basis of reality of whether boys or boys are girls and girls, clearly there's something going on, but beyond the conscious rational level, and it can only be spiritual.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so that's the bad and the ugly, but there is good happening.
One year in review of President Trump.
Let's just play part one of this, 347.
Our sovereignty will be reclaimed.
There have been 92 people charged in this fraud scheme in Minnesota.
Maduro, Venezuela, what they're doing, they're trying to kill our kids.
They're trying to bring drugs into our country.
It's not going to happen.
We're going to come after you.
Captured Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro sits in the federal jail in Brooklyn, escorted by Drug Enforcement Administrator Terry Cole.
Thanks to the relentless work of our prosecutors and our federal agents, El Mayo will spend the rest of his life behind bars.
Our safety will be restored.
Murders in the U.S. are on pace for the largest one-year drop.
Metro police say homicides and robberies are at multi-year lows.
The numbers released by DC police show a safer year for the city in 2025.
And that's just part one.
There's a part two that the administration put that out.
I thought it was fair and it kind of highlighted and reminded me of some things.
RFK Jr. was on with Jesse Waters last night on Fox.
He said that, you know, he was asked, what was your number one accomplishment?
And it kind of surprised people.
And he said, what was actually most favored nation?
Drug prices are dropping.
Trump used tariffs to leverage as leverage to negotiate with European partners and drug companies.
A lot of good stuff is happening.
Sean, in a historic sense, put this, put Trump's one year in office in context for us.
How good has it been?
What would you like to see more of?
Well, I think it's been spectacular.
You know, Trump has been putting points on the board across the board.
He's completely sealed the border.
He's fixed the border.
He's dealing with immigration.
He's doing mass deportations.
He's made America safer, number one, by not doing stupid nonsense everywhere.
And number two, by actually going and dealing with threats discreetly as he finds them and then just leaving it at that.
A good example there would be the Iran nuclear threat, which he dispatched, and then going in and kidnapping the dictator of Venezuela like he's some sort of historical artifact in a Nick Cage heist movie.
Then you have the Maha stuff.
You have RFK Jr. kind of resetting these insane vaccine schedules that we had for babies.
He's fixed the food pyramid, which for decades was nonsense and was just telling people, yeah, yeah, you need to be just gorging yourselves on carbs because that's what your body needs.
So we've seen changes on that.
Where I think we've really been lacking, and this isn't a Trump problem at all.
It goes back to what we were talking about earlier, is total inaction and an unwillingness to do what needs to be done in the Republican Congress.
And what we've learned is that having a great president is great.
It's indispensable.
You can't get things done without a great president.
But you need more than just a president doing stuff as the head of the executive branch.
You have to have people making everything he's doing permanent law.
You have to have them going and permanent.
So nuke the filibuster.
But nuke the filibuster if you can pass stuff.
But to your point, it would actually make a zombie Congress actually do stuff again.
It would.
It would make Congress real.
But that, well, it might be that you make Congress real only so people can really very clearly see the members of their own party who are.
It's like you put on the they live glasses and see what the reality is.
But at least we have the veto with President Trump right now.
I mean, so if they pass crazy stuff, okay, we get the veto.
And then, you know, hopefully by 2028, we regain some mojo.
You know, I don't know.
I'm becoming way more convinced that the only way to make this fake, you know, democracy kind of thing that we've got going on right now, where it's basically ruled by executive order and Congress is completely paralyzed, is you got to nuke the filibuster.
Let the cards out on the table.
Let's see where things lie.
I mean, I know there's risk in that, but there's no other option to get immigration fixed.
There's no other option to get voter ID fixed.
Sean.
Well, yeah, so I agree.
I think in a vacuum, you know, it's easier to pass things with 50 plus one than it is with 60.
But the problem is the composition of that 50 plus one.
And I think if we were to go in and nuke the filibuster today, I don't think they would pass anything.
I really don't.
I think the composition of Republicans in Washington is such a huge problem that what we actually would need if we wanted to get things passed was move the threshold down to about 35.
I think then you could actually get Republicans to do stuff.
WhyReFi and Republican Races00:02:23
And so I think it's really, really important, especially as we're heading into a primary season.
Republican voters have to wake up.
It's not enough to send a Republican to Washington.
You have to send the right Republicans to Washington.
And if you don't, it doesn't matter what your vote threshold is.
They'll find a reason to not do anything.
Sean, what we need to do is we need to have you back on with Tyler, and we need to go through a list of the races and give people direction on it.
Honestly, we need to go race by race.
Let's do that soon, my friend.
All right.
Love it.
Thank you for making the time.
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Vittorio, you are joining us now.
You had, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show.
It's great to have you.
We talked earlier this morning, just prepping for this.
There was a Bill Ackman tweet where political scientists, DataQuants, have been telling us this for a half decade.
Women have moved radically leftward at a scale and speed with no modern precedent, while men have, on the whole, remained largely steady and unchanged.
Men and Women React Differently00:15:21
You, and Bill Ackman, asked the question, why?
And you responded.
And you wrote this really amazing article that went viral across the internet.
I'd never seen your account before that, but now I've seen you multiple places.
You're now in the algorithm everywhere.
So congrats on breaking through.
And so please, welcome to the show and tell us, give us the basis of your thesis here.
Well, thanks for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here.
My thesis, I don't know.
Personally speaking, I don't think I've enlightened people.
I mean, I just tried to put together things that I thought were known.
But first, I'm really glad that it was well perceived and well received.
But my core thesis is that because of some reason, there was this convergence of different technologies that allowed this to happen.
And the reason for this happening is that men and women are just fundamentally different.
And we can't really do anything about this.
A shocking statement.
We evolved under different apparently, yes, but biological men, biological women are fundamentally different.
And we evolved under different kinds of selection pressure, under kind of evolutionary pressure that were very different.
And that's because we're biologically different.
I mean, we are a dimorphic species.
We evolve as men and women.
And we have very different kinds of characteristics, like just, I mean, on a very simple level in terms of strength.
And so women need more defense.
And men don't necessarily have this.
So women to be protected, they need something that keeps them safe.
And once the safety lacks, because they don't have, I would say, strong, a good man in their life, then they need to find protection and safety into the group.
And this, when technologies as like social media and smartphones are available, then the consensus comes from the group.
Like the group gives you the consensus, gives you this protection.
And so it's much more easy for them to be polarized because they need to be in agreement with the group to feel a sense of belonging.
Yeah.
And you say, you describe social media, the rise of social media, as basically the triggering event.
And I thought, this is something that I've thought for a long time.
So to your earlier point, these are ideas that I've sort of known and I've been thinking around, but you concisely put it into this one article.
And it's basically like you got Facebook launched in 2004.
It was college until 2006.
The iPhone launches in 2007.
But then in about 2012, 13, and 14, you have mass adoption of smartphones.
And that's about when you start seeing this really radical divergence.
And it's not just an American phenomenon.
This is what you point out in graph 355.
This is, I believe we showed this graph when Charlie was around with us, and he marveled at this as well.
So South Korea, US, Germany, UK, you get this massive divergence between men and women.
Now, this graph sort of makes it look like men are getting more right-wing, but actually the data shows that men are sort of staying stable.
Women are becoming more radicalized.
But you describe the forcing function as that the internet is a giant algorithmic consensus builder.
What do you mean by that?
And why does that affect women more than men?
Well, because I so it's it's common to blame social media and people who design social media, Facebook or whatever.
But I don't think that social media wants this to happen, or at least the owners of social media want this to happen, is that the platform have to be optimized for engagement and time spent on the platform.
So like if you want to create revenue as a business, you need to optimize the time that people spend using your business.
And in case of social media, they need to spend time on it.
And men and women react differently to different news.
And women are like, this is known that we have different personalities.
Women are more empathetic.
Women are more agreeable.
Women have a higher neuroticism.
So a news and an event that makes them feel more empathetic and present some kind of suffering resonates more with women than with men.
And still going back to the fact that women are physically weaker than men, women are easier to complain than men.
Like we grew up and like it's always been known that if a man was complaining, he had to grow a pair and just men up.
Women are allowed to complain and they do complain more on social media.
So social media wants to keep the audience, keep their client and their users.
And so like, I think it's just inevitable that if the technology is not aligned with the substrate of humans, which is biology, this happens.
But that's, I think, the natural follow-up, Vittorio.
So if this is driven by smartphones, which are not going away, and if it's driven by social media, which is not going away, is there a solution to this?
Or are we essentially, are we kind of screwed?
Are we basically going to be dominated by whatever ideological contagion sweeps through with the algorithm and takes a majority of women along with it?
And they're half the voter base.
I don't know if I should blackpill or white peel, but I think that like we saw, and there is another graph in the article that shows that married women don't respond in this way.
And women with children tend to be more conservative and less radical.
So one solution would be to bring back families and to have more kids, because the biggest problem is that, again, women are more empathetic.
And so once you show them the suffering that is happening at 10,000 miles away, they will feel as if it's happening to them or close to them.
But once they're married and they have good men in their life, then they tend to follow.
And if once they have kids, then they tend to focus more on the kids.
And that's just, again, it's natural, it's evolutionary for them.
So by, I don't know, pushing more for marriage and bringing back the marriage institution, which is not just a legal document that you can sign and just null the next day and making like, I don't know, I'm Christian.
And so for me, marriage is sacred and is an oath that you make in front of God.
So you cannot go back to your word.
And I also do think that that's the reason why it was set up in that way, because you should not be allowed to go back from your promise.
But by making it so like no-fault divorce and so easy to rescind, then people are like, if it's just a piece of paper, what's the point of doing that?
And so I do believe that by bringing back and trying to re-establish the institution of marriage and pushing for more kids, which again, this is the black pill because the next problem is that people are not having kids.
But I do think that in terms of the radicalization, there is a solution.
Now, the solution has its own problem.
Yeah.
So, Vittorio, I love this part.
So, listen, our audience, we have a lot of Christian conservatives that may not even ascribe to evolution, right?
So, I'm not even getting into that, but the way you word it, I just wanted to preface that.
You could just believe that God made men and women different and for different functions and forms.
And this, this, your point still works.
You said men face different pressures, hunting parties, gone for days, exploration, combat.
You had to tolerate being alone, disliked, outside the group for extended periods.
Men who could handle temporary exclusion without falling apart had more options, more risk-taking, more independence, more ability to leave bad situations.
And you said, But women evolved in environments where social exclusion carried enormous survival costs.
You can't hunt pregnant, you can't fight nursing.
Survival required the tribe's acceptance.
And so, what you're doing is you're sort of showing that there's just form and function between male and female are different.
And, Blake, I love this because I instantly thought of you when I was reading this because you were the one that kind of solidified this even with Charlie: that women's part of women's social roles are norm enforcers, consensus builders.
This is sort of the way that they're hardwired.
And then, when you combine that natural form and function with an algorithm that pushes them and builds consensus further and further and deeper and deeper, this is where you start seeing the two sexes diverge and depart, and this chasm is formed.
And I just think it's a really powerful explanation.
And then you pair that with Helen Andrews and the radical feminization of the workplace and other things, you start seeing why these larger cultural trends are taking root.
If you agree, Blake.
It's very interesting because I just kind of funny.
It's like, how do we fix this?
Well, we just have to fix marriage.
Yeah, no-fault divorce.
Yeah, just get rid of no-fault divorce.
It's very tough, and not the least because the people we kind of need to save with us, I think, are the most likely to fight against that.
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What we're talking about, this divergence of the sexists, is of paramount importance for the future of Western civilization.
That's why this understanding its root causes, how to fix it, how to address it, is so critically important.
And it's something that Charlie talked a lot about as well.
This is Charlie at December 2024 Amfest.
Let's go ahead and play Cut 352.
Young men are the most conservative they have been in over 50 years.
50 years.
Think about that.
Now, a reporter asked me, they said, Charlie, can you try to explain this phenomenon?
Listen, yeah, it's very simple.
Young men want to be part of a political movement that doesn't hate them.
In fact, let me go a step further.
That thinks they're essential to a future of a country.
That we need strong men and strong women.
That we're sick and tired of hearing about toxic masculinity when we are drowning in toxic femininity.
And he kept on that theme because we have another clip here, and this is one of the last hits he ever did on Fox.
Let's play 353.
What is going on with women and not wanting to prioritize family?
Yeah, this is a pattern that I've seen time and time on these college campuses where young men are ordering their life correctly.
They want to first and foremost have children, get married, and then have a nice job or to be able to travel.
If you look deeper into this data, it's completely consistent with other data we've seen the last couple of years.
Young women, they don't value having children.
And this is one of the reasons why we are seeing a fertility collapse in the West.
If you play out the liberal worldview, the Kamala Harris worldview to its furthest possible logical point, you have a country with literally no future.
When you play out the logical endpoint of President Trump's agenda of where young men voted for him, you have one of lots of children, increasing communities, and you also don't have a need then for mass immigration.
So, Vittorio, one thought I've had, maybe this could bail us out, is we are seeing this fertility collapse.
We are seeing far fewer people get married, far fewer people having children.
Could this basically be a transitional phase where for all of human history, basically everyone had kids because that was what you did, natural biological impulse.
And now we're just going to go through this one generation where basically all the people uninterested in having kids poof out of the gene pool, and the people who don't value marriage poof out of the gene pool.
And we'll just have a new society of the people who actually select for those things.
And could we fix it that way?
Are we going to see this huge, I guess, political and social divergence caused by who actually shows up for the future?
I mean, this, you see it already happening.
I mean, conservative families have more children than liberal families.
I spoke time ago about this, and I do think that there is a problem here because the institutions that then educate and raise your kids, schools and media and TVs, are captured instead by the other ideology.
And that's why they care so much about it, because by not being able to have their own kids, they need to indoctrinate someone else's kids so they can perpetrate these views.
So to your point, I do agree that they will self-select out, but only if the kids that then are being had, like, they're protected.
So that's another problem.
I'm looking at the numbers here to remind myself.
So if you looked at the average number of kids for a woman over 44, so they finished their child breeding window.
In 1982, liberal women had more kids than conservative ones on average.
And even as recently as 2018, for women over 44 completed fertility, they had about the same number of kids, liberal versus conservative.
For women below that threshold, it's widened to the point where it's almost a full child per woman gap between liberal and conservative women in the U.S. That's a lot.
That maybe doesn't sound like a lot, but that's a huge gap.
But to your point, that, you know, listen, we've said more striking things, I think, before in the past, but there is this tendency with people that do not procreate to then recruit or groom.
Italy's Fertility Dilemma00:03:35
And that is a huge problem with our institutions.
That's why school's choice is so fundamentally important.
That's why classical school education is so important.
Vittorio, you are, I would presume, maybe you're Christian, Protestant, but you're Italian, correct?
And one of the countries that has experienced in the West the most dramatic fertility collapse is Italy.
Are there lessons from Italy that you could share that shed light on this?
Well, what Italy learned is like what you can learn from Italy is what not to do.
Like it's, I don't know.
Again, it's a worldwide problem, the fertility crisis.
And there are several probably reasons that can be both political, biological, cultural.
But I think that at the very bottom is just an extremely individualistic culture.
And everyone just think about themselves and for themselves.
They want to have money for their own.
They want to be successful on their own.
And no one cares anymore about what will happen to them.
There is not anymore some kind of overarching principle and guiding reality that pushes them to have a lineage in the future.
So I think it's still a collapse of meaning.
I think ultimately it's a value fight, and that's tough because values are tough to change.
I had a friend who was just in Israel and he was saying it was so jarring to see.
It's not just that there's kids everywhere compared to the U.S. or anywhere else, but that it so aggressively comes up.
When you talk to someone, they're rapidly going to brag.
Oh, yeah, I have four kids already.
I have five kids.
It's such a point of pride.
It's so baked into everything.
That's what drives it.
You're right.
Israel is this lone standout in the world right now.
Because people think about sub-Saharan Africa as this massively fertile area.
And historically, they would be correct, but they are seeing dramatic drops in fertility in sub-Saharan Africa even.
This one standout is very fascinating.
That's Israel.
And because Israel is a value-based country, right, where people are there often because of their religion, because of their ethnicity.
And what's really fascinating about Israel is the group that's losing fertility rates right now are the Muslims within Israel.
The people that are sustaining their fertility rates are the Jews.
It's a very fascinating, which just underscores that it's a value proposition.
Exactly.
Man, it's bleak, Vittorio, I have to say, because it does feel like when it's a problem that's almost everywhere in the world and the ones that are defying it are so unique compared to the U.S. or Europe, it's tough.
But we're very thankful for you for laying it out in a clear-cut way.
I think there is rising awareness of the nature of the problem.
Thanks to Elon Musk.
And others, Charlie.
Yes.
And I think we are going to have to make the push for a revolution in values in the West.
And it's kind of the only way I think you can turn it around.
And this push about individualism.
We are not individualists.
We are more community-based.
We're not collectivists.
We're not individualists.
We're about community.
We're about shared meaning as a community, as a local community, as a church community.
Vittorio, really fascinating stuff.
Thank you so much for your contribution to this discussion.