Charlie's brief three-day visit has set the UK on fire. Charlie talks to Ben Leo of GBNews about his stops at Oxford and Cambridge, as well as his viral interview where he labeled Islam as incompatible with Western civilization. Josh Hammer of Newsweek discusses the strategic merit of Trump's battle with Harvard University. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at chariekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.
The downfall of the UK.
What if I told you that there is a movement coming across continents?
Ben Leo helps summarize my trip to the United Kingdom and the shockwaves that it made.
Then Josh Hammer joins us to talk about Harvard and President Trump's war on Harvard.
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Buckle up everybody.
Here we go.
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
I want to thank Charlie.
He's an incredible guy.
His spirit, his love of this country.
He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
That's why we are here.
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Is Ben Leo, GB News presenter and host of Ben Leo Tonight.
I really enjoyed joining his show in London.
It was a great surprise and he was the most respectful of almost anybody I had a chance to chat with in the UK.
Ben, great to see you.
Thank you for taking the time.
Charlie, you left the UK so quickly.
Is it something we said?
Well, you know, I tried my best to get arrested and I failed.
But it's hard for me to stay anywhere for more than two to three days.
I move very fast.
I had a lot of urgent stuff in the States.
But yes, we had quite an interesting time.
I want to play this piece of tape here from our conversation on GB News.
I'm told it went very viral.
You could tell me after we play it.
Play Cut 154.
The question is, is macro-Islam compatible with Western values?
Macro.
Of course it's not.
There are three major reasons why.
Islam does not believe in freedom of speech.
Islam does not believe in freedom of religion, and Islam does not believe in separation of mosque and state.
Those three things are antithetical to the West.
In a Muslim-majority country, most Muslim-majority countries, you cannot criticize the Prophet Muhammad.
In most Muslim-majority countries, you do not have the same robust freedom of religion protections.
And finally, whereas we in the West are very careful to try to intermix religion and state, they are commanded to actually go into the state and try to change the state to be more Islamic around the core pillars of Islam.
And the last thing I'll finally say is I cannot see a single Western country that has become more Islamic and has become a better place to live that is happier or freer.
So, Ben, did anyone watch that interview?
Yeah, thank you for doing it, because it was a ratings hit.
It went viral online, as you know.
millions and millions of views on YouTube, across all social channels.
Because what you said, Charlie...
And for a lot of Brits, at least, we don't know, I know, and lots of conservatives know and GB News viewers know, but most people, I'd argue, don't know about the limits on free speech here until it takes a friend from the US like yourself to come over and say, Hang on a minute, guys.
Something's not quite right here.
And what you said about Lucy Connolly specifically, you mentioned that you're going to give Marco Rubio from the State Department a heads up about Lucy's case.
I mean, that absolutely blew up.
We had a lot of people, a lot of sort of liberal lefties saying, well, hang on a minute, we don't want Americans coming over here and interfering in our politics, which is fine.
And I understand that Obama did it back in the days of the Brexit vote.
And we said, you know, we don't want Americans over here doing that kind of thing.
I think you even contested that.
I even said that, though.
I even I even, you know, I was actually looking at it from an American perspective.
But please continue.
Yeah, but I was going to say the difference between now and the Obama days and the Brexit days is I think we're in an existential threat to the future of the West.
And the scenario is different.
This isn't just a vote on Brexit and whether the UK is part of the EU or not.
I think it transcends borders and it transcends countries.
It's the West against a tyrannical globalist future.
And when we have allies and friends in the United States, albeit from a foreign government, at least...
And indeed, you mentioned 30 Brits a day, and you're absolutely right, 12,000 Brits a year being arrested for words they post on the internet, which is absolutely insane.
It was much welcome.
As I said, there was a cohort of people, mostly militant leftists, who were saying, you know, what right does Donald Trump's associates and MAGA conservatives have to come over here and talk about free speech, saying that Trump was clamping down somehow on free speech in the US?
But I've argued many times on the air since then that, look, it's more than just foreign interference.
It's the future of the West.
And if we don't do something about it and protect the very nature of free speech, and free speech for me, if you come down to it, If you're tiptoeing around on eggshells and concerned about what you're saying or how you'll deliver it because you're concerned about the consequences, that's not free speech.
A couple thoughts on this.
So first of all, I even conceded.
I said, look, I hate when foreigners come to America and tell us what to do.
I was looking at it first and foremost from an American perspective.
We call you guys allies.
We are sibling nations.
And we give you guys military aid, support, NATO.
And under that idea is that we are all in alignment against authoritarianism.
And in pursuit of quote-unquote liberal democracy.
So what then ends up happening when we're not in alignment on the big stuff?
And we're paying for it as Americans.
And so, by the way, it wasn't just the bluster.
I sat down with Marco Rubio yesterday and we chatted about a bunch of stuff.
It was his birthday, by the way.
Happy birthday, Marco.
By the way, Marco has been a 10 out of 10. He has been exceptional.
He has been amazing.
I'm a huge Marco Rubio fan.
And the bandwidth that that guy has is incredible.
And I said, look, you're keeping your—I told him about the Lucy Connelly case.
I said, we're just there.
He says, we're all on it.
We know it.
And, you know, he didn't reveal his cards any further than that.
But it's well known now in the highest levels of the American government the attack on freedom of speech happening in the United Kingdom of what is happening of 30 people a day being arrested.
Ben, you want to chime in, please?
Yeah, I was just going to say, many people here, as I said, they're so, and indeed, they've been brought up in this country.
They know no different.
I remember, I'm mid-30, so I just about remember the time when But there's especially young university students who have grown up in this era of tyranny and so-called free speech.
They think free speech exists, but you only have to look to yourselves and America and the First Amendment.
That is true free speech without consequences.
And when it comes to Rubio, I mean, amazing.
When the story came out over here, it was blowing up in the news that the facts of the State Department, it wasn't just a source said from the State Department, we're looking at this.
It was an official statement from Rubio's State Department saying we're monitoring the situation.
And I always say, though, Charlie, I think we're about, I reckon, five years behind the US politically, culturally.
I think we're going through our Biden era at the moment.
And it's always the darkest before the dawn.
And I think you need to, I said before Labour got elected in July last year when the Conservatives or the fake Conservatives were still in power, I said, look, I think we need a Labour government to really drag this country into the gutter before a lot of, So I think we're going through our Biden era at the moment.
We're probably about five years behind you, but I remain, although you have a grave assessment of your visit to the UK, Charlie, I do remain hopeful and faithful that we will soon be on your coat.
I think you're right.
And, I watched the debate, the full Cambridge debate.
Yeah, I'd love your thoughts on that.
It was an ambush attack, to say the least.
But we went through it with a smile.
But this is what's important.
I just wrote a piece for The Spectator that I encourage everyone to check out.
While I saw that your government has now been taken over, now that you have Mohammedans that have basically infiltrated all parts of the United Kingdom and of London, I do see that kind of bubbling up of the everyday man.
I would be going through restaurants in London, and people would be asking me for pictures saying, we love you, we need to have a big fight here.
And it wasn't just the Cosmopolitans.
It was also...
That was what was so interesting, is that the working class of Britain was asking for selfies with me.
I'm like, okay, that's very interesting.
We call them the muscular class in America, and they're largely forgotten.
They do not vote.
Many of them did vote in Brexit, though, which was the highest turnout election in history.
Can you tell our audience, how is Nigel Farage's Reform Party?
No, it's not bluster.
They are absolutely smashing it.
They are destroying it.
We had some elections three weeks ago, so there's So the winning party becomes the governing body.
And then you get local elections as well.
So that's when people in their local vicinity vote for local councillors and councils, local authorities.
They handle things such as school funding, local rubbish, trash collections and so on and so on.
So more of the sort of nitty gritty stuff at those local elections.
Three weeks ago now, reform.
Absolutely smashed it.
Hundreds of councillors, dozens of council, control of councils.
There was a by-election, which is basically, it was an individual race for one MP constituency seat in the north-west of England.
Reform won that against the odds.
It was a massive Labour stronghold.
They won three morality races.
So they got three new mayors across Great Britain.
So they destroyed it.
And do you know what?
Keir Starmer today, the Prime Minister, reformed, by the way.
Over the past six months or so, Labour and the government and Keir Starmer have been mocking reform, saying that they could only fit their MPs in the back of a taxi, for example, because they're so insignificant.
Today, Keir Starmer gave a massive speech at some industrial centre in the north of England.
He talked for a little bit about the reason why he was there, and then he launched into some obsessive rants about Nigel Farage, about reform, and so on and so on.
So he's completely rattled, and he's also changing.
I call him a political chameleon.
He's changing his rhetoric off the back of this surge from reform, who are polling now at 31%.
I think a new poll came out today.
Labour down on 23%.
The Tories, I mean, they're just long gone.
They're forgotten.
That's the price you pay for being fake conservatives.
But yeah, the momentum is there.
It's three, four years to go until a general election, so there's a long way to go.
But reform do have all the momentum.
And it echoes, I'd say, of 2016.
With Trump, I remember that race in 2016 with Hillary.
And it was the working class.
It was the Rust Belt.
This end, we call it the Red Wall.
The Red Wall is traditional Labour voters, working class voters.
Labour used to be the party of the working man.
Now they're the party of champagne socialists and big corporations.
Funny that.
But that's what reform are tapping into.
If they can win that red wall, which they did at the local elections, I think maybe in three or four years we'll see Prime Minister Farage.
And my hope is for...
That is my hope.
And to no longer be a sad husk of its former self.
Charlie Kirk here.
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Continuing with us is Ben Leo from GB news.
So Ben, You haven't seen Oxford yet, but the kind of impression you had from an American going to the best universities in Britain.
Well, I had a question for you, first of all.
I watched the full debate earlier, and some of it I was absolutely howling off my chair.
It was so ferocious it was funny.
Not ferocious from you.
You handled them expertly.
Particularly the young lady in the U.S. flag jumper, the last guy at the end, the Prince Harry lookalike, who for some reason was bouncing up and down.
I wanted to know how these students compare to the students that you frequent in the U.S., Charlie.
Yeah, so they're definitely, let's say they have a higher intelligence quotient.
They are definitely smarter book smart than your everyday state school in America.
But they have no wisdom.
And this is what's very important.
And this is the point, is that they are the least wise group of people that I've ever come in contact with.
Ever.
And wisdom is the knowledge of things that never change.
They know a bunch of facts.
They could get high test scores.
but their lack of understanding of human nature and our relationship to one another.
And honestly, I will say that...
They have some high rhetorical ability, but they were still resorting to their pre-prepared AI-generated remarks reading from a phone or shaking like a leaf.
your thoughts, Ben?
Yeah, I've said for many years now, even before watching your sort of debates over the years with university, college students, I've always said, I think university now these days is a hindrance to a young person's development because there is no expectation There is no sharing of ideas.
It's infiltrated by Marxist ideology.
And I've got two young boys myself.
I've always said, unless things change, I don't want them going to university.
And in actual fact, when I used to work at, I was a reporter at one of the, well, the biggest newspaper here in the UK for seven years.
We regularly used to have people coming in for work experience or what you guys would call internships, right?
So you get young journalists coming into the office to get some experience.
They'd come straight from university with...
They'd done three, four, five years, got in hundreds of pounds worth of debt.
And they couldn't even look somebody in the eye or pick up the phone or knock on the door, which is essential as a journalist, and say hello or ask a question.
It was just insane.
They have no social skills.
They spend their time, unfortunately, heads buried into screens.
And these days, I've always argued, and I think I'm absolutely correct in saying it, I'd rather hire somebody who had one or two years on the job.
Who could speak to somebody and look them in the eye and behave as a human being, be empathetic and just be a normal person than somebody, some academic with, as I said, degrees and qualifications coming out there is.
The students you spoke to at Cambridge, as I said, I was completely laughing at my chair.
The one young lady you spoke to with the American flag on, she's here now on screen, you were making the point that Western women on the whole were unhappier than decades ago.
I agree with that.
The studies show that she, with respect to her, And unfortunately, my assessment is that a lot of these young people, and I don't blame them personally.
I blame the system because we've had people now struggling to get homes.
They can't have or won't have families until they buy houses or own a property.
The cost of living is sky high.
So I kind of understand why they don't want to settle down and do that.
predominantly just given an absolute lie over the years of feminism and told they can have it all.
This kind of person, this lady here, with respect to her, she's a prime example of somebody I would argue would be a lot happier getting out of that university environment, stop reading stuff online and studies and this and that, and just go and enjoy the beauty and the happiness of life and children.
She would be much happier if she got married and had kids.
She's a deeply unhappy person.
But look, the Oxford students, they were long on wit, but they were short on wisdom.
And that's what matters most.
Wisdom.
The wisdom of the working class of Britain has a lot more than anything at Cambridge.
Ben, thank you so much.
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you Let me see if my story is in here.
The Wall Street Journal.
Let me see.
It might be here because it's a great segue.
I actually meant to see.
There was a whole story that they did on Harvard.
Or just that school in Boston.
I went to school in Boston.
You're not fooling anybody.
Doesn't have the allure it used to.
Trying to find this story here.
I think it's here somewhere.
Let me see.
Anyway.
Should be on the front page tomorrow.
Front page story.
In the story, which is online, it will soon be printed.
In the print copy.
I am quoted by saying, Charlie, every time he sees President Trump, reminds him to, quote, crush these universities with every power that he has.
That is true.
That is not fake news.
In fact, yesterday when I was with President Trump, I mean, he was already there.
I'm not taking credit for it.
But I was certainly affirming it.
I said, you need to crush Harvard in its current form.
And he says, oh, I am.
And I plan to.
Make an example out of them.
Joining us now is Josh Hammer, host of The Josh Hammer Show, senior editor-at-large at Newsweek, author of Israel and Civilization.
Don't tell me you went to Harvard, too, Josh.
I mean, come on.
Did you?
Charlie, I am not a Harvard man.
I did not go to school in Boston, as they said.
As they school in Boston.
There's many elements of this, but first, let's talk about what is wrong with Harvard.
For someone that is just tuning in, and they say, why is Trump waging war on our best university?
What is the contention?
Write the indictment, Josh Hammer.
Okay, so the fundamental indictment against Harvard University, I mean, the way you framed it is actually quite perfect, because you want to make an example of the worst actor, the most prestigious institution when it comes to layman prestige across the country.
The Ivy League in general, Charlie, has been out of line with American Western values for far longer than you or I have been alive.
A point that I like to remind the listeners and viewers when this topic comes up.
Let's think back to William F. Buckley Jr., the founder of National Review.
He found the National Review in the 1950s, literally before he even found the National Review.
He wrote a book called God and Man at Yale.
It was the first book that Buckley ever published.
He wrote that shortly after he graduated from Yale.
1951, barely after victory against the Nazis in World War II, when William Buckley is already writing about leftist, socialist, secularist, atheist decadence in the Ivy League ivory tower.
So this has been a problem for a very, very long time.
I mean, the rise of the 1960s Frankfurt School of Cultural Marxist Campus Radicals has been very well documented.
Chris Rufo had a great book on this just about a year and a half, two years ago or so.
And I think what we've seen since October 7th is this just take on an unavoidable When you see people tearing down American flags on Harvard University, which, by the way, they've done.
They're putting up the PLO flag, the Palestine Liberation Organization flag there.
People chanting not just terrible things about Jewish people, but also just about the United States.
You know, the so-called Students for Justice in Palestine chapter at Columbia literally calling to eradicate Western civilization.
Harvard, Charlie, lest I need to remind the viewers here.
Harvard was also sued badly, and they lost badly when it came to affirmative action.
That's exactly right.
I hate to interrupt, Josh.
This is what we're not talking about enough.
This is the smoking gun.
They still have defied the Supreme Court's order on this.
They are in blatant violation of federal law.
Please continue, Josh Hammer.
Yeah, so they lost badly in the Students for Fair Admissions versus Harvard case.
They were singled out.
By the way, Charlie, one of my best friends in the world, a brilliant lawyer by the name of Adam Martara, he was actually the trial lawyer against Harvard in this case.
So I know this case actually quite well.
Harvard's admissions policies, when it came to the Students for Fair Admissions case, were blatantly, overtly discriminatory.
They were clearly, clearly violating the 14th Amendment, violating the Civil Rights Act, Title VI, when they were discriminating against white people.
And the key part for present purposes, Charlie, is that the Trump executive order, probably the single most important executive order that Trump has signed into law, and he signed a lot of good ones, but the single most important, the executive order that I said essentially achieved a Cold War victory without firing a single shot for our side,
the forces of civilizational sanity, was where, among other things, back on January 20th, he interpreted this case, the Students for Fair Missions versus Harvard case, as also requiring an end to DEI and everything else that smacks of anti-white, anti-Asian, anti-American, anti-Western bigotry on campuses.
Harvard has flagrantly stuck their middle fingers at this there.
So it's far more than just anti-Semitism.
It's not...
I'm glad you said that.
Yeah, and so, I mean, look, here's where I think we can potentially make a little bit of a misstep.
I hate anti-Semitism.
You do too.
I mean, I fight it all the time, right?
However, you're allowed to be critical of a certain foreign policy decision.
Free speech, you're allowed to do that.
What is the contention, though, of where they're in violation of federal law when it comes to this or federal guidelines?
Can you help contextualize that?
Because I don't want to get to a place where Am I understanding that correctly?
Yeah, so there's numerous things, right?
So first of all, there's a Trump executive order from 2019.
This is one of his executive orders that was produced by the Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights back then when Ken Marcus was leading it there.
And back then, they interpreted Title VI of the Civil Rights Act for the very first time to apply to Jews.
And one of the things that they did as part of this executive order that Trump signed six years ago now was he said that anti-Zionism constitutes anti-Semitism for purposes of Title VI.
Now, Charlie, it's important to define terms.
There's a lot of confusion as to what anti-Zionism is.
Simply criticizing the policies of a democratically elected government is obviously and transparently not anti-Semitism.
Anyone who's ever met Trump.
I mean, literally going back to the Talmud and so forth, right?
But what is anti-Zionism is calling for the destruction of a country.
What is anti-Semitism is to use such genesis.
That would fall outside of constitutional free speech limits.
It is a fine line.
I don't pretend this is kind of a bright line ruled one way or the other there, but there have been judicial rules given by courts over the years, and the line ends up being somewhere in that gray area right there.
Yeah, and so let's play Cut 362.
This is President Trump talking about Havid yesterday.
Play Cut 362.
Columbia has been really, and they were very, very bad what they've done.
They're very anti-Semitic and lots of other things.
But they're working with us on finding a solution.
And, you know, they're taking off that hot seat.
But Harvard wants to fight.
They want to show how smart they are, and they're getting their ass kicked.
Okay, so how do you think Harvard is going to react to all this?
Do you think they're going to give in and surrender at some point?
They're in a very, very difficult position.
Well, I'll tell you who I don't think is going to surrender.
I don't think that Donald Trump is going to surrender because this is a politically winning fight.
I mean, let's hold the policy, the law aside for a second, Charlie, just focusing on the brute politics of this.
What an amazing political operation, an amazing political move by Donald Trump and his whole administration.
I mean, they're literally making an enemy of one of the least popular institutions in America.
Higher education in general is not very popular.
Harvard University is definitely not popular.
They are making the Democratic Party, which once upon a time purported to be the bastion of the working class in this country, the old white working class there.
You know, they are making these people bend over backwards to defend Harvard University, to tell people earning, you know, 30, 40, $50,000 a year.
They're putting that Democrats in a position to tell these folks, these hardworking men and women, that your taxpayer dollars should go fund these ivory tower socialist Marxist Jew-hating America-hating lunatics on the Charles River in Boston.
It's a brilliant, brilliant political move.
So for that reason, among others, I simply don't see the Trump administration giving in here.
I think that Harvard ultimately is going to be forced to blink first.
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I want to play this piece of tape here as we welcome back Josh Hammer, the great Josh Hammer.
Let's play Cut 365 from Bill Ackman.
Harvard is in a very bad place.
And what they should be doing is they should have We know that his strategy, negotiating strategy, is to ask for, you know, get the headlines with a crazy ask, and then he wants to make a deal.
And they should have said, you're right, President Trump, we're hiring Alex Partners, a restructuring firm, and we're going to do a zero-based budget of what the administrative expense of Harvard should look like.
We're going to restructure our organization.
You're right, we've done a horrible job.
Protecting students from hate and allowing pro-terrorist protesters to interfere with education and we're going to stop it now and we're going to enforce our code of conduct which Harvard has not done.
So Josh, can we talk about the brilliance of the politics here?
Most of America is not college educated.
Most of America has not gone to any college.
Even those that are college educated, they don't necessarily look at delight, at the smugness, the pomposity, and the elitism of Harvard.
In many ways, this is a populist fight, one that the workers of this country say, you know what, why do they have $55 billion?
What good are they doing anyway?
Josh, comment on the politics of this, and then I have one devil's advocate question, please.
Yeah, so this is a perfect issue for the MAGA America First Nationals Populist Coalition.
I mean, it is a truly pitch perfect issue.
I mean, Donald Trump has been talking for years.
Senator Tom Kahn has actually proposed legislation about taxing the Ivy League endowments at a much higher rate.
By the way, Charlie, Harvard's endowment is taxed at a 1.4% rate.
1.4%.
I mean, are you kidding me right now?
Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, many others have spoken for years about trying to tax these endowments and try to redistribute them to trade schools, electrician schools, plumbing schools there.
It's not just good politics.
It's also good public policy.
It is a beautiful Venn diagram overlap sweet spot here where it really kind of checks all the boxes.
But I remember it was back during the campaign, back when Barack Obama was still on the campaign trail as a Kamala Harris surrogate.
And this is when kind of the anti-Harvard rhetoric started picking up from the Trump-Van side of the ledger.
And Barack Obama, who was a Harvard Law graduate, started defending Harvard University.
I mean, could you imagine better politics for the Republican Party and the MAGA coalition than forcing Barack freaking Obama to defend Harvard University?
I mean, it's amazing.
I mean, this is probably a 95 to 5 issue.
This is probably up there with deporting Mahmoud Khalil.
I'm with you really quick.
So about a minute remaining, though.
Is there any fear that we are going to be neutering our best research institutions?
That is what some dissenting voices that I trust are cautioning.
Charlie, this country is 30-plus trillion dollars in debt, okay?
And at some point, you have to start trying to make sure that this money is serving the common good.
That is the only reason that higher ed ever gets favorable tax treatment, all this fiscal taxpayer largesse in the first place, is that we once upon a time thought that they produced sound citizens inculcated in the good virtues to conduce to the common good.
they drop their end of the bargain.
If Harvard wants to stop discriminating against Americans, against white people, Asians, Mormons, Jews, all of the above, if they want to stop doing that, You know, then we can have that conversation.
But unless and until that happens there, I see Donald Trump should raise them to the ground and salt the ashes.
Very good.
Josh Hammer, please plug your stuff so our audience can follow you.
Yeah, you bet.
So my show is The Josh Hammer Show.
I'm on X, Josh underscore Hammer.
And my book right behind me is Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West.
Yeah.
And Josh, I want to have you back on about the Israel topic because it's very hot.
It is, in some ways, dividing at least the online.
I don't know how much it is outside of that.
But it's definitely dividing a lot of conservative information.
influencers.
And I seek to try to find reconciliation.
I think we actually have more in common on this issue than people realize.
I mean, there's there's the fringes, but I think there's actually when it's properly presented more agreement than I think is always understood.
