The Charlie Kirk Show - Naturally Good or Naturally Evil?: A Conversation with Danica Patrick
Aired: 2024-06-02
Duration: 42:12


=== Fighting to Win (02:56) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey everybody, happy Sunday.
[00:00:01]  A wonderful conversation I have with Danica Patrick.
[00:00:04]  We talk about faith, conservatism, and why people want Trump in jail.
[00:00:08]  And if you want to listen to the entire podcast, go to her show, which is the Danica Podcast Pretty Intense Podcast.
[00:00:14]  Danica Patrick Pretty Intense Podcast.
[00:00:16]  So check it out, Danica Patrick Pretty Intense Podcast.
[00:00:20]  Have a wonderful Sunday, everybody.
[00:00:21]  Enjoy this podcast.
[00:00:22]  Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and get involved with TurningPointUSA at tp at usa.com.
[00:00:28]  That is tp at usa.com.
[00:00:30]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:00:31]  Here we go.
[00:00:32]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:33]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
[00:00:35]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:00:39]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:00:42]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:00:43]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:00:44]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:00:51]  Turning point USA.
[00:00:52]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:01]  That's why we are here.
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[00:01:21]  That is noblegoldinvestments.com.
[00:01:23]  It's where I buy all of my gold.
[00:01:25]  Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.
[00:01:30]  They are counting on your surrender.
[00:01:34]  If you give up, they win.
[00:01:37]  But what if we look back and we realize we were just inches away from victory and that's when we decided to give up.
[00:01:43]  Join us and thousands of American patriots for the summer convention that all are invited to.
[00:01:51]  You're going to hear how we're going to win in 2024.
[00:01:55]  With the biggest speakers in the movement, featuring President Donald J. Trump.
[00:02:00]  We're going to fight and we're going to win.
[00:02:02]  Charlie Kirk, Devaik Ramaswamy, Governor Christy Noah, Dr. Ben Carson, Steve Bannon, Candace Bowens, Laura Trump, Senator Rick Scott, Congressman Matt Gates, Benny Johnson, Jack Posobiec, and more.
[00:02:24]  June 14th through 16th, 2024 is our final battle in Detroit, Michigan.
[00:02:30]  The great silent majority is rising like never before.
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[00:02:36]  This is a new ballgame, everybody.
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[00:02:40]  We play to win.
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[00:02:50]  We should win, but there's no guarantee in the short term we will.
[00:02:54]  And the 20th century is the example.

=== Human Nature Flaws (03:47) ===

[00:02:56]  I don't know.
[00:02:57]  I think it is.
[00:02:58]  I mean, yeah, okay.
[00:02:59]  There's no guarantee.
[00:03:00]  I have a very low view of human nature.
[00:03:02]  I do.
[00:03:04]  Where's the pessimistic in you?
[00:03:05]  Where does this come from?
[00:03:06]  It's not, well, partially my religious views.
[00:03:11]  Secondly, I live to be disappointed because I think that human beings are rather primal at our core.
[00:03:19]  I do.
[00:03:19]  I don't think we're naturally good.
[00:03:21]  That's my.
[00:03:22]  God, I actually think the opposite.
[00:03:24]  I actually think that, you know, you were saying earlier about, you know, I'm going to use my words, like through our certain lens, we can justify any certain behavior and could say that it's okay or it's just how I am, or I believe in the good in this.
[00:03:40]  It's like, I actually believe that everyone does see life through their own lens and that everyone is unique and that probably even to some, even to the extent that someone, say someone murders someone, right?
[00:03:55]  They come up to the window, they like, they get scared, they shoot them, right?
[00:03:59]  That person may be scarred from something they experienced young in their life or something they've seen where they go into an emergency sort of trigger response, or they are like, I have to protect my child, this is what I do.
[00:04:13]  Something in them told them that that was a better option than the alternative.
[00:04:18]  I actually think that inherently everyone is good, but conditioned through their environment.
[00:04:25]  And I love psychology, so I don't know.
[00:04:27]  So, why do we have to teach kids goodness?
[00:04:29]  Do you?
[00:04:30]  Yes.
[00:04:31]  I have a daughter.
[00:04:33]  Is she inherently?
[00:04:34]  Manipulating, lying.
[00:04:36]  You don't think that she gets any of that from the proxy?
[00:04:39]  How did I teach her?
[00:04:41]  They say that the subconscious, which operates 95% of our life, the program that is run, starts to be established in the last trimester in the womb up until about six or seven years old, is when your subconscious is programmed.
[00:04:58]  So who's to say that she didn't hear, see, feel, get something programmed within her that happened at any one of those points that you think, well, she didn't hear that.
[00:05:09]  She didn't know that.
[00:05:10]  She could have literally been in the womb.
[00:05:12]  This is such like these are the things that we don't completely understand as human beings, like when this happens.
[00:05:18]  But the truth is, you do have to teach them good, but why?
[00:05:22]  Because we're not so good.
[00:05:24]  I think it's because we pick up things along the way and we don't know.
[00:05:28]  We just don't understand when that programming happens.
[00:05:30]  Yeah, I think humans are more of a blank slate tilting towards bad.
[00:05:34]  Again, my views of nature are rooted in scripture, but that outside, we look at, I'll give you an example, okay?
[00:05:46]  Have you heard of Yan Me Park?
[00:05:47]  She's terrific.
[00:05:48]  She's up in North Carolina.
[00:05:49]  Yeah, yeah, she has an incredible story.
[00:05:51]  If human beings were naturally good, then her story would be tough to understand because she said they would just walk over bodies asking for money or food, and there's nothing inherent about them to save them.
[00:06:06]  And she never learned either way, just, oh, that's just, you know, that's just a clump of cells, basically.
[00:06:12]  In tribes of Africa, all the time they'll leave just babies by the fire if they're unwanted.
[00:06:17]  So what I'm getting at is values that we, it's values that we have to try to pass down.
[00:06:22]  I think Left Her Own Devices were, as Thomas Hobbes would say, nasty, brutish, and short to one another.
[00:06:27]  I think we're awful.
[00:06:30]  I don't think human beings are naturally.
[00:06:32]  Look at the 20th century.
[00:06:34]  It used to be much more brutal.
[00:06:35]  You know, 120 million people died under the guise of doing good.
[00:06:41]  You have more hope in humanity.
[00:06:42]  I don't.

=== Faith and Goodness (10:09) ===

[00:06:44]  You know, it's very interesting.
[00:06:45]  And again, I totally respect your views because it's rooted in optimism, which I love.
[00:06:50]  Somebody asked me the other day, they said, Charlie, how could you still believe in God after the Holocaust?
[00:06:56]  Sure.
[00:06:57]  And I said, well, I still believe in God.
[00:06:59]  I just don't believe in humanity.
[00:07:00]  Well, what is God?
[00:07:01]  Then this is an interesting way to get into the conversation about religion because I know it's very important.
[00:07:05]  It is, yeah, it is.
[00:07:06]  And it's a core tenets of your being and your moral compass and why you do what you do.
[00:07:12]  The big question that launched me into, just as my background goes, I really didn't go to church growing up.
[00:07:19]  At one point in time, became a Catholic, then went to Baptist church, then got much more into spirituality.
[00:07:25]  So I would call myself what would be, I don't even know if it's an actual term, but an omnism, which is the belief that no one religion is true, but there's truth in all of them.
[00:07:38]  I generally am very curious about the nature of God and what that is.
[00:07:43]  So that was the first question that really dove me into excavating more of the nature of reality and spirituality.
[00:07:49]  And so what is God?
[00:07:51]  That was the question that I was answering.
[00:07:53]  I believe in the God of the Christian Bible, or you could say the Old and New Testament, which is a God who is omniscient, omnipotent, all-knowing.
[00:08:02]  In the scriptures, there is a phrase, I am who I am.
[00:08:06]  So it transcends time, transcends being.
[00:08:09]  In Christianity, we believe God manifests in three separate ways, the Spirit, the Father, and the Son.
[00:08:15]  But God is love at its core.
[00:08:18]  And we see that.
[00:08:19]  I'm happy to explain if you'd like.
[00:08:21]  Keep going.
[00:08:22]  In the scriptures, we say that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
[00:08:27]  So God predated creation.
[00:08:28]  Creation was an act of will by God.
[00:08:31]  He created what we know as the natural world.
[00:08:33]  He created all the physics, the DNA, and then, of course, he created humanity.
[00:08:38]  We see this play out where God has many, let's just say, attempts at trying to get humans to live morally, whether consciousness didn't work out very well, divine revealing teaching to Noah, to the Noah covenant, eventually to the transmission law, to Moses on Mount Sinai.
[00:08:59]  And essentially, the story of the Old Testament can be really summarized in lots of rebellion, lots of strife, lots of struggle, and kind of perpetual struggle, where the New Testament picks up and changes the whole ballgame, which makes Christianity different than any other world religion.
[00:09:18]  And again, I have total respect for all people's views, but I would say Christianity is different, and I believe it is true, is that Christianity argues that we do not ascend to God, but God descended to us, where God actually took human form.
[00:09:33]  Buddhism, for example, would never grasp this because they believe human beings to be so dirty, so separate from the divine, that the divine actually taking temporal earthly flesh would be a foreign concept to Buddhism.
[00:09:47]  So we believe that Jesus came on a rescue mission, if you will.
[00:09:51]  For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only begotten Son that whoever live in him shall not perish but have eternal life, as it says in John 3.16.
[00:09:59]  So love is a very important word.
[00:10:02]  We overuse it in the West.
[00:10:05]  There are four Greek words for love.
[00:10:07]  And so I want people to try to entertain this for a second.
[00:10:10]  There is storge, which is the love in Greek which would be between a parent and a child.
[00:10:18]  There is phileo, which is brotherly love.
[00:10:21]  So like between friends, like very close, Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, phileo.
[00:10:26]  There is eros, we get the word erotica, where is a romantic love.
[00:10:31]  And then there is agape, which is a completely different term that we don't use in the West, and we should, or in English, which is sacrificial love.
[00:10:39]  So let me repeat that verse by using a different word, agape, which means I love you so much, I will stand in front of the train for you.
[00:10:47]  I will take a bullet for you.
[00:10:49]  I will die for you.
[00:10:50]  So imagine now for God so agape the world that he sent his one and only son.
[00:10:56]  So now all of a sudden we in English-speaking cultures can have a better understanding of the significance of that verse.
[00:11:02]  So we believe in the incarnation.
[00:11:04]  God took human form, which I understand is a faith statement.
[00:11:08]  Some people have trouble understanding it.
[00:11:10]  But he lived a perfect life to show us how to live, committed miracles, did an amazing ministry, died an unjust death, and then defeated the cross after three days, defeated the grave after three days so that we may have life.
[00:11:24]  Most things in life you earn, this is the one thing you don't earn that's given to you for free, is purchased at the cross.
[00:11:30]  And it's the ultimate sacrifice.
[00:11:31]  It goes back to normative Christian theology, which is that we are flawed, we are sinners, and that we are in need of a salvation and redemption.
[00:11:40]  I loved hearing all this.
[00:11:41]  So I can't, of hearing about love.
[00:11:44]  I've heard some of those.
[00:11:45]  I've heard of agape.
[00:11:46]  I've heard of Eros.
[00:11:47]  Really know what they, I like can't identify the exact definition, but that was cool to hear.
[00:11:52]  That I know that language is such an important thing too in general, and that there are other languages that do a better job of having far more variations of being able to get across the exact feeling that you're looking to because there's more words for it.
[00:12:10]  Trying to sort of like isolate more in on God, Jesus, love.
[00:12:15]  So I'll just say what I think it is because I'll see if it resonates.
[00:12:20]  I'm not offended at all.
[00:12:21]  Trust me.
[00:12:21]  You could be as blunt as you want.
[00:12:23]  Yeah, I know that about you.
[00:12:24]  I love that about you.
[00:12:25]  This is the way it's supposed to be to have a conversation.
[00:12:28]  I think of it in the framework of energy.
[00:12:31]  And so something that's omnipresent isn't energetic.
[00:12:34]  It's available at all times, all places, right?
[00:12:38]  And that love is a frequency as well.
[00:12:40]  So it's like an energetic frequency.
[00:12:43]  And that's why at certain times in your life, you're able to access that deep feeling, but it's only at an elevated state, right?
[00:12:51]  It's only when you get your frequency higher, your energy higher, you feel something far more positive.
[00:12:58]  You get into those elated, joyful states where you're overwhelmed by this feeling of could be called love.
[00:13:04]  And so I think of God as an energy, and that's why it's omnipresent.
[00:13:09]  And it can be within you as the body, around your Ka body, or even the ethereal, the energy, spirit, or beyond.
[00:13:20]  So I don't believe that, but that's very Eastern.
[00:13:24]  It's a way to bring it into like a tangible.
[00:13:26]  No, I hear you.
[00:13:27]  And I'm not by no means an expert.
[00:13:31]  What makes Christianity different is that in that same chapter of John 3, it says that you must be born new.
[00:13:40]  And so to use your description, the energy or the life force enters you when you are born again with Christ.
[00:13:49]  And Paul writes this extensively in the epistles, where when you are born again, you're a completely new person.
[00:13:57]  And so, yeah, I don't believe that.
[00:13:59]  Is he able to identify that being born as a baby or being born at any point?
[00:14:04]  It would be born again is the idea that you have one birth when you actually are born with your mother, and you're born again when you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
[00:14:14]  And so I haven't thought that deeply about the energy part of it, but I think in my view, God is bigger than just an energy force.
[00:14:22]  God is an intimate creator who loves us and knows us.
[00:14:27]  The scripture tells us that He knows how many hairs are in your head.
[00:14:29]  He knows the plans that He has before you.
[00:14:32]  I knitted you when you were in the womb.
[00:14:34]  But I'm sure energy is a component of God.
[00:14:36]  I haven't thought that deeply about that, though.
[00:14:38]  Well, this plays into a little bit of you thinking that inherently we're all bad and I think that we're all good, and that they actually, it might be not an or but an and.
[00:14:47]  And that another belief, if you're looking more from a spiritual energetic perspective, is that source being a singularity, a single point, God, whatever you want to call it, fraction, the Big Bang, broke apart in an effort to know itself.
[00:15:07]  That's Kabbalah teaching.
[00:15:09]  I'm familiar with it.
[00:15:10]  And that we essentially all are the one, but a part of the one expressing.
[00:15:17]  No, I don't believe that.
[00:15:18]  So and that we can't see ourselves in this individual way too.
[00:15:23]  If you were just one, you couldn't really identify what was going on because it's just you.
[00:15:27]  Same thing actually with our human experience.
[00:15:30]  Like, I actually see myself through you.
[00:15:34]  You're mirroring.
[00:15:36]  When I'm triggered, I know now something about myself.
[00:15:39]  When I get excited, I know something about myself.
[00:15:43]  This is all information about myself.
[00:15:44]  I can't actually see myself, but this is why as we get older and go through time, we start to recognize patterns and we start to recognize when we have reactions to things.
[00:15:56]  We don't when we're young because we're so in it, but then as soon as we sort of pull back and like get a little bit more perspective, a little bit more calm, a little bit more patterning, we can see it because we're seeing it as a reflection from someone else.
[00:16:10]  It's interesting.
[00:16:11]  I have to think about that.
[00:16:12]  Do you like psychology at all?
[00:16:14]  I do.
[00:16:14]  Yeah, I think most of it is bunk, but I do like, yeah.
[00:16:17]  I mean, I think there's a lot of just like treachery that's happened in modern psychology.
[00:16:23]  Well, it's fair because it's fair to say that because that, the reason why I feel like this conversation ended up going in this direction is because we're talking about colleges and you're talking about professors that get these different ideas that are, you know, they deconstruct.
[00:16:38]  And, you know, there's a lot about what I'm talking about that would sort of point in the direction of deconstruct down to.
[00:16:46]  Well, I mean, just not all ideas are made equal, right?
[00:16:49]  And so, like, child sacrifice is wrong, but the Aztecs would disagree.

=== Moral Hierarchy Rules (09:47) ===

[00:16:53]  Right.
[00:16:53]  So, I mean, at some point, you have to develop a hierarchy of morals and values.
[00:16:58]  And I would say about, you know, in Christianity, just to be clear, that we were made good, but in normative Christian theology, that there was a decision made in the garden to rebel.
[00:17:11]  And I'm sure you know this audience does.
[00:17:14]  And at that moment, there was a man's heart was wicked from the time he was born, as it says later in Genesis 6 or 7, which I do believe plays out.
[00:17:23]  I do believe that we're awfully treacherous.
[00:17:25]  Now, some people would take, hey, I think we have good in us.
[00:17:29]  I think that there are elements of goodness that can pop up.
[00:17:33]  I mean, as destructive as my daughter can be, she can be super sweet and angelic at times, right?
[00:17:39]  But we're talking about what is your fundamental nature, absent teaching of values, absent education.
[00:17:48]  I do believe it's, I would say, the word sinful from our birth.
[00:17:53]  Where do you think value-wise, we getting back to more of an overall country perspective and how this country should be run and how you believe it should be, I should say?
[00:18:04]  Like, where have we lost our way?
[00:18:06]  What are the values that have been lost that are leading us so astray?
[00:18:10]  This will sound like overly religious, but I think I would love anyone even not religious to tell me why this is a bad list, the Ten Commandments.
[00:18:19]  It's very simple.
[00:18:21]  And you shall have no other gods before me.
[00:18:22]  You might say, well, that doesn't apply to me.
[00:18:24]  Well, sort of, think about it.
[00:18:26]  Are there some things that should be left holy in your life?
[00:18:29]  Are there some things that should be prioritized?
[00:18:32]  You should not make any craven images.
[00:18:33]  You should honor your mother and father so you live long in the land of which you are in.
[00:18:36]  You shall not murder.
[00:18:37]  You shall not covet.
[00:18:38]  You shall not steal.
[00:18:39]  I think these are rather good pillars for a society.
[00:18:42]  You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor, which politicians do for a living.
[00:18:46]  And so we need rules for life.
[00:18:48]  Jordan Peterson has really ran with this idea and done it really well.
[00:18:52]  And we currently don't have an agreed upon central moral contract in the West.
[00:18:57]  It used to be the Ten Commandments.
[00:18:58]  If you walk into the halls of Congress, literally back in the 1800s, they built all of this.
[00:19:02]  Like Moses is in the Capitol Rotunda, where they do the votes.
[00:19:07]  Back 1800s, they built it there.
[00:19:08]  Moses of the Ten Commandments.
[00:19:10]  And because he was the administrative of the law, right?
[00:19:13]  He was the transmission, the law which was transmitted through Moses.
[00:19:17]  So I think it's a great list.
[00:19:19]  I think that it's also built the West.
[00:19:20]  So if you have a better list, I encourage people to send it to me.
[00:19:23]  So this beautiful civilization we have was really foundation.
[00:19:27]  The foundation was the Ten Commandments.
[00:19:29]  I agree that rules are necessary, and I'll give you my experience of it.
[00:19:34]  Have you heard of Burning Man?
[00:19:36]  Oh, yeah.
[00:19:36]  I have no plans to.
[00:19:38]  I can't imagine you'd want to go to that.
[00:19:39]  Yeah, that's the end.
[00:19:40]  Like, not my scene.
[00:19:41]  At all.
[00:19:42]  That's okay.
[00:19:44]  See, I don't care about people's private lives.
[00:19:46]  Exactly.
[00:19:46]  Right.
[00:19:48]  So I've gone the last couple of years, and what is crazy about it is you'd probably think to yourself, Burning Man, anything goes, that place has got to be wild, like no rules at all.
[00:20:05]  It's actually the rules that create the freedom.
[00:20:08]  It's this amazing dichotomy of a situation or paradoxical situation where there's these 10, I think there maybe is 11 now, but there's these basic 10 rules that you have to abide by.
[00:20:21]  One that always feels very current and like you have to think about all the time is let's say there's no littering and leave no trace is essentially what it's written as.
[00:20:33]  And it's crazy, there's nothing on the ground for them.
[00:20:36]  You don't find any, you're not even allowed to dump water on the ground.
[00:20:39]  Like unless it's, you can't do anything.
[00:20:42]  So you don't, there's no cups anywhere.
[00:20:45]  You have to bring your own cup for someone to pour in.
[00:20:48]  Like it's these, and there's obviously many others that are important, including respecting others' prior, you know, and what they want to do and, you know, very consent, of course.
[00:20:59]  Consent is definitely one.
[00:21:01]  So, but it's these 10 rules that create this incredible freedom to anyone for anyone to be by themselves, be themselves.
[00:21:11]  And so it's powerful.
[00:21:13]  It really is.
[00:21:14]  And in this, what you'd think would be absolutely obscene environment.
[00:21:18]  Without the rules, how would it be?
[00:21:20]  I think it would be chaos.
[00:21:22]  Exactly.
[00:21:22]  So there you go.
[00:21:23]  Exactly.
[00:21:24]  You need order for liberty.
[00:21:25]  And that's why we've lost the order, so we don't have liberty.
[00:21:29]  And again, I'm not that familiar with Burning Man culture, but it's 11, not 1,011 rules.
[00:21:37]  Yeah.
[00:21:38]  And the more laws, the less justice.
[00:21:41]  Again, if it was 1,011 rules, you'd be like, forget it.
[00:21:45]  Probably.
[00:21:45]  No one would be like, excuse me.
[00:21:46]  And then it creates many, what I call micro-tyrants.
[00:21:49]  This is what happened during COVID, right?
[00:21:51]  Probably, yeah.
[00:21:51]  So then you have all these people that enforce Rule 888.
[00:21:55]  But a crisply written list that everyone can look at, remember, and abide by.
[00:22:00]  Digestible, too.
[00:22:00]  Who enforces them at Burning Man?
[00:22:03]  Oh, there are rangers everywhere.
[00:22:05]  Really?
[00:22:05]  So the police, there's rangers that do the 11 that.
[00:22:09]  And each other.
[00:22:10]  That's the answer I was going to say.
[00:22:11]  And each other.
[00:22:12]  So within your own camps, there's a lot of accountability.
[00:22:16]  So in the scriptures, there was a time when the Jews lived in the wilderness for 400 years without a standing army or a police force, and they all self-enforced the 10 countries.
[00:22:23]  Exactly.
[00:22:24]  The law was at the center of society, and these are our rules.
[00:22:27]  And if you don't follow them, we're going to then punish you if you violate one of these 10 rules.
[00:22:33]  And so I think that you need rules.
[00:22:35]  You need a moral-centeredness.
[00:22:36]  We don't have it in our society right now.
[00:22:38]  So I love that example.
[00:22:40]  Yeah, because it's so extreme, right?
[00:22:41]  No, it proves my point, because it's like these are people in the state of nature.
[00:22:44]  Literally, right?
[00:22:46]  That's right.
[00:22:46]  There's nothing on the nature.
[00:22:47]  But you do need rules.
[00:22:48]  That's exactly right.
[00:22:50]  You can't even be in the state of nature and just be like, you know, pure anarchy.
[00:22:55]  Because we're all inherently bad.
[00:22:56]  That proves my point.
[00:22:58]  See, I'm like, open it.
[00:23:00]  It proves my point because if absent rules are something transcendent, something that you believe there's a punishment for, then someone might go and steal or someone might violate the consent or they may, you know.
[00:23:12]  So that does prove my point, which is, and so Thomas Hobbes who came up with this view of nature.
[00:23:18]  There's three social contract theorists, which you have Jean-Jacques Rousseau, John Locke, and Thomas Hobbes, and they were all like within a short period of time.
[00:23:25]  And they all have three different views of human nature in nature.
[00:23:29]  So I'll get to Hobbes the last because I agree with him the most.
[00:23:31]  But the first is Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who believed that human beings were naturally born good and corrupted as they grow up.
[00:23:38]  Okay?
[00:23:38]  And he's my guy.
[00:23:40]  Yeah.
[00:23:41]  He did influence Marxism.
[00:23:43]  Oh shit.
[00:23:44]  No, it's okay.
[00:23:45]  It's interesting because you think about it, you could easily become a Marxist, not you, because then you have to blame something for why people are bad.
[00:23:51]  They blame capitalism, they blame society.
[00:23:53]  I'm not saying you do, but.
[00:23:54]  This is where I have the Buddhist approach, where I realize that the only way to fix it is myself.
[00:23:57]  Yeah, and so then you have similar.
[00:24:01]  Rousseau is right about a lot, but Marx was a huge Rousseau guy.
[00:24:05]  He was like, oh my goodness, totally true.
[00:24:07]  So Rousseau would value the primitive over the civilized, the infant over the adult.
[00:24:11]  Then you have John Locke, who believed in something, and I'm going to butcher the Latin, tabula rasa, which basically is blank slate.
[00:24:17]  You're neither good nor bad at birth, and you're completely formed by your environment or the values.
[00:24:21]  And then you have Thomas Hobbes, who wrote a book called The Leviathan during the English Civil War.
[00:24:27]  And so you understand, everyone is always a product of their environment.
[00:24:29]  I do agree with that.
[00:24:31]  And so we should just try to create a good environment, which is why I try to do that.
[00:24:34]  Thomas Hobbes grew up in one of the bloodiest times in European history, right?
[00:24:37]  It was the English Civil War.
[00:24:39]  All he knew was bloody death destruction.
[00:24:41]  And so he wrote in The Leviathan that human nature was nasty, brutish, and short.
[00:24:46]  He's like, human beings are awful because he saw people do the worst things, human, you know, decapitations and rapes and kidnapping.
[00:24:53]  And meanwhile, Rousseau lived like an opulent life in Geneva, Switzerland, and really didn't have much stress or pressure.
[00:25:01]  You could believe that everyone's naturally good and all that.
[00:25:04]  So I'm not saying that everyone who believes in that does, but those are basically the three social contract theories.
[00:25:10]  So my viewpoint is that absent rule.
[00:25:13]  So Thomas Hobbes came to the conclusion: if you do not have strong order, people are going to rip each other apart.
[00:25:20]  And I got to be honest, Annika, look at San Francisco.
[00:25:22]  Look at Chicago.
[00:25:23]  Oh, man.
[00:25:24]  And there might be something to, you know, this.
[00:25:26]  What happens when you take police away?
[00:25:27]  No, exactly.
[00:25:27]  And there might be something like the subconscious molded them and all that.
[00:25:31]  But even more so, I think it's less about their environment that creates crime and it's more about who they naturally are within them.
[00:25:39]  Meaning that if you don't, what do you do if you think you can get away with it?
[00:25:44]  I have a theory that human nature is to do the minimum.
[00:25:47]  To be lazy.
[00:25:49]  Whatever the minimum is.
[00:25:51]  So if I were to tell you about my childhood, my dad was incredibly hard on me.
[00:25:55]  There was a lot of discipline.
[00:25:58]  And so my minimum was high, it felt like, right?
[00:26:02]  Someone else's minimum.
[00:26:04]  I think this is why sometimes in generational wealth families you see less and less ambition at times because the minimum gets lower, right?
[00:26:13]  There's always a catch net.
[00:26:15]  There's really nothing they have to do, right?
[00:26:16]  This is just an example.
[00:26:18]  But I do have the belief that human nature is to do the minimum.
[00:26:22]  Yeah, and I. Like deadlines, right?
[00:26:24]  Like the deadline is over here.
[00:26:25]  So you wait for it, right?
[00:26:26]  And again, just so everyone understands my view on human nature, how did I come to this?
[00:26:31]  Well, spending time around so many high school and college kids, you realize that unless you repeat it and discipline on it and repeat it and discipline on it, then a behavior is formed.

=== Voting Dynamics Explained (14:20) ===

[00:26:40]  Right?
[00:26:41]  And so.
[00:26:41]  That is how you create programming.
[00:26:43]  Yes.
[00:26:43]  That's how you use a programming system.
[00:26:44]  And not all programming is bad.
[00:26:45]  I mean, I'll give you an example.
[00:26:47]  So if you take a child, like my 20-month-old, she has no manners.
[00:26:52]  I hope to program manners.
[00:26:54]  Right.
[00:26:55]  I mean, she doesn't use the restroom.
[00:26:57]  She doesn't, you know.
[00:26:58]  She drools.
[00:26:59]  Exactly.
[00:26:59]  So some programming is actually really good.
[00:27:01]  It keeps us free because without that, it would be like a super unpleasant society, right?
[00:27:06]  Everyone would smell all the time.
[00:27:08]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:09]  But some programming can be super bad.
[00:27:11]  Yeah.
[00:27:13]  That's exactly right.
[00:27:14]  So then you have to decide what is good or bad.
[00:27:16]  Yeah.
[00:27:16]  And that's what we're here.
[00:27:18]  So how do we establish the right framework moving forward with our country based on sort of where we've gone astray?
[00:27:25]  Like, what do we need to do, and who do you think is going to be able to accomplish that job in the best way?
[00:27:31]  Well, I think it's Trump right now.
[00:27:33]  I think we're in a total crisis.
[00:27:34]  I think the civilization is in free fall.
[00:27:37]  And I just ask people this: put aside everything you think about Donald Trump.
[00:27:40]  Were the four years under Trump, were you making more money, more stable?
[00:27:43]  Were you flourishing greater?
[00:27:45]  Did we have more peace, which is a moral good?
[00:27:47]  Or the four years of Joe Biden?
[00:27:48]  And it's not even a question.
[00:27:49]  I can go through three.
[00:27:50]  Economically, we were better.
[00:27:51]  Foreign policy, we were better, and we were better at the border and/or immigration sovereignty issues.
[00:27:57]  You can put all your other opinions aside.
[00:27:59]  I don't think they matter nearly as much.
[00:28:01]  With Joe Biden, your dollar is worth less, and inflation has crushed people.
[00:28:05]  Foreign policy, we have wars with Russia and Ukraine.
[00:28:07]  We have wars with Israel, Gaza, and possibly Iran.
[00:28:10]  China is on the march.
[00:28:11]  The world is, the planet is literally falling apart.
[00:28:14]  And then finally, the border, we have 10,000 to 15,000 people a day coming across the southern border.
[00:28:18]  And so, I'm not the one that says that Trump is going to heal the country, but he might save the country.
[00:28:24]  Every president has a role to play.
[00:28:26]  And Donald Trump goes in to break things and to change standard operating procedure and the order in front of us.
[00:28:33]  And I find the accusations that people throw against them to be silly and short-sighted.
[00:28:38]  And we don't have to wonder what type of president each person running is.
[00:28:41]  We now know.
[00:28:42]  That's true.
[00:28:42]  It's the first time in American history where you can see these four years versus this four years.
[00:28:47]  Which one?
[00:28:48]  Usually it's this four years against somebody's vision or two visions running against one another.
[00:28:54]  No, this time it's totally different.
[00:28:55]  It's four documented years, four documented years.
[00:28:58]  And Donald Trump's, the country was in a far better spot.
[00:29:00]  I want to get that back.
[00:29:04]  Why do you think that Trump, do you, first off, do you think that Trump was really elected president last time, but was cheated through the voting system and through mail-in, through manipulation?
[00:29:16]  The one I focus on is the manipulation of consumption of information, where Twitter colluded with the FBI and we weren't allowed to talk about Hunter Biden laptop and the social media companies suppressed any sort of dissident information.
[00:29:28]  That alone was information warfare.
[00:29:30]  The entire election was decided by 41,000 votes.
[00:29:33]  We had the highest voter turnout that we had in 60 years.
[00:29:37]  Well, Trump got even more votes than he did the year before the term before.
[00:29:40]  It was 20 million more votes cast than any other election in American history.
[00:29:43]  And we had, let me get this right, 81.
[00:29:46]  156 to 160 million total votes cast, and the election is decided by 41,000 votes.
[00:29:52]  Before we get into manual.
[00:29:53]  And how many people have come across the border?
[00:29:55]  What are we at?
[00:29:55]  12 million right now?
[00:29:56]  Yeah, that we know of.
[00:29:57]  Yeah, I think it's like 9.5 million.
[00:29:59]  It's going to be a bit of a calculation.
[00:29:59]  It's an influential amount of votes.
[00:30:01]  Thank God people have to use their IDs now, right?
[00:30:03]  Isn't that a new rule, finally?
[00:30:04]  Well, it depends.
[00:30:05]  You have to have proof of citizenship, which is separate.
[00:30:08]  Shit, are they going to get that?
[00:30:10]  It depends on what state, not in California.
[00:30:12]  I mean, do you think this is part of why the border is open to manipulate the illegals that are currently voting, but I do think it changes the demographics, and I think that their kids become citizens immediately?
[00:30:27]  Because if you have 9 million people and they have four kids per family, you're talking about 36 to 40 million people.
[00:30:32]  Right.
[00:30:32]  So then, and then all of a sudden, now, mind you, Hispanics are not a monolith.
[00:30:36]  A lot of Hispanics are voting Republican, voting conservative.
[00:30:38]  They want a free society, but they generally do end up voting more Democrat than Republican.
[00:30:42]  But it's more than that.
[00:30:43]  It's an intentional, what's called the Cloward-Piven strategy.
[00:30:46]  These were two political philosophers and thinkers in the 70s that said you destroy America by three things.
[00:30:50]  You do three things.
[00:30:51]  And they were Marxists.
[00:30:52]  They were communists.
[00:30:53]  Again, if you look it up, your audience can fact-check me.
[00:30:55]  Cloward-Piven strategy.
[00:30:56]  You destroy America through destroying the currency.
[00:30:59]  So you borrow a bunch of money that you don't have.
[00:31:01]  You build a fourth branch of government that is a deep state bureaucracy.
[00:31:05]  And then you overwhelm the country with third worlders and you effectively destabilize the public infrastructure and the trust of the culture and the country.
[00:31:13]  So you're living through all three of those right now.
[00:31:18]  Wow.
[00:31:19]  That seems pretty cut and dry.
[00:31:22]  Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
[00:31:28]  Actually, that reminds me of something that people talk about.
[00:31:31]  I personally don't see how Trump does not become president.
[00:31:34]  Oh, I see how he can't.
[00:31:36]  But one of the questions is, do you think that they would murder him?
[00:31:41]  They might.
[00:31:42]  Yeah.
[00:31:43]  I think that assassinations post-Bobby Kennedy are logistically harder, A, because of Secret Service protection.
[00:31:48]  And B, I think that...
[00:31:49]  But he doesn't have it.
[00:31:50]  Well, Trump has it.
[00:31:51]  Oh, sorry, Russia.
[00:31:52]  They might try to kill RFK too.
[00:31:54]  But Trump has secret service protection.
[00:31:55]  I mean, of course they might try to murder him.
[00:31:57]  I mean, what else do they have left?
[00:31:58]  And people say, oh, they're not going to try.
[00:31:59]  I mean, assassination is built into the history of the West.
[00:32:03]  From Julius Caesar to Abraham Lincoln to JFK to Bobby Kennedy to MLK to Malcolm X.
[00:32:09]  They were all assassinated.
[00:32:10]  We have not had a successful high-profile assassination since Bobby Kennedy.
[00:32:15]  We've had the last successful presidential attempted assassination was Ronald Reagan when he was president, I think in 1982 or 83.
[00:32:23]  And I think that the people, I believe the government killed JFK for the record.
[00:32:28]  And I don't think that's up for debate.
[00:32:30]  Yeah.
[00:32:30]  Exactly.
[00:32:31]  But I think that the government would rather assassinate you financially, reputationally, than put a bullet in you.
[00:32:38]  Because I think that what comes next, the destabilization that would follow, I think they don't want.
[00:32:44]  It's a cleaner kill for them.
[00:32:46]  Do you think that because people would, okay, to put him in jail or to get the population to have him lose, right?
[00:32:54]  Because theoretically, if Trump were to be assassinated, God forbid, I hate even talking like this.
[00:32:58]  Right, right.
[00:32:59]  I can't imagine that the country will be stable the next day.
[00:33:03]  I pray it would be, but I mean, you have 30 to 10, you have probably 15 million people that look to Trump and they're like, this is the one vessel that we believe that can save the country.
[00:33:18]  And if that too gets robbed from them after their factory jobs got robbed from them and if their best friend overdosed on fentanyl, I'm not sure what comes next would be pleasant.
[00:33:28]  And I hope it would be.
[00:33:29]  I don't want unrest.
[00:33:30]  I think it's awful.
[00:33:31]  So I think the Intel agencies know that.
[00:33:33]  I think that the people that are the masters of society, but they might get desperate and they might put a bullet in them.
[00:33:39]  I hope not.
[00:33:39]  I pray not.
[00:33:40]  I mean, as far as an ideal outcome in the end, Trump president then.
[00:33:44]  Yeah, and that's just the beginning of the fight.
[00:33:46]  What about his VP?
[00:33:47]  We'll see.
[00:33:48]  Tulsi Gabbard's getting talked about here.
[00:33:50]  I see some goods and bads.
[00:33:51]  It looks good and bad about that.
[00:33:53]  But I think that it would be a formidable ticket.
[00:33:56]  I was kind of hoping for RFK if he, like, as an option, but he had some.
[00:34:01]  Nicole Shanahan, he went way to the left.
[00:34:03]  But he did, right?
[00:34:04]  Then he just posted some social media posts coming down on.
[00:34:08]  Yeah, it's totally crazy.
[00:34:09]  Yeah.
[00:34:10]  I actually love that RFK.
[00:34:11]  Because a lot of people that were going to vote for him were probably quite Republican.
[00:34:14]  Correct.
[00:34:14]  And that were upset about the COVID stuff and he didn't like Trump's embrace of the vaccine, all that.
[00:34:20]  I think that RFK is running for the Democrat nomination in 2028.
[00:34:24]  That's my current theory, is that he wants to try to rebuild the Democrat Party as being an old-school Democrat Party, which I think would be a great thing.
[00:34:30]  I was going to say, I think that's not a bad thing.
[00:34:32]  It would be a moral good for the country.
[00:34:33]  I wouldn't agree with them on everything, but at least I would be like, okay, if they ever got their hands on power, they wouldn't destroy this place.
[00:34:40]  You know, like a Democrat Party that believes in borders.
[00:34:42]  They might have differences of me on abortion, but they're going to be de-radicalizing that.
[00:34:46]  They don't want the trans stuff.
[00:34:47]  Like, you know, the Democrats of the 60s or 70s.
[00:34:49]  I think that would be great.
[00:34:51]  So I think Bobby Kennedy's, if that's his goal and his mission, I think that's great.
[00:34:56]  Who Trump should pick, I don't know.
[00:34:58]  I like JD Vance.
[00:34:59]  He's from Ohio.
[00:35:00]  Probably makes sense to have a female given some of the dynamics that Trump is up against.
[00:35:05]  Because he's criticized so much for things.
[00:35:07]  Oh, no, just abortion and the female vote is going to be so powerful and so potent.
[00:35:12]  I think that we as conservatives or free thinkers do believe in biological differences between men and women.
[00:35:19]  I definitely do.
[00:35:19]  Yeah, I know.
[00:35:20]  Exactly.
[00:35:20]  I love those.
[00:35:21]  And you go to campuses and you're like, what is a woman?
[00:35:24]  And they're like, well, this shouldn't be hard.
[00:35:27]  No, this shouldn't be that hard.
[00:35:28]  So I, yeah, look, we'll see what he ends up choosing or selecting.
[00:35:32]  I have no special insight, but I hope he chooses to be able to.
[00:35:36]  Where does he come into the picture?
[00:35:37]  I would love a Vega.
[00:35:38]  I don't know if he's currently in the running, unfortunately.
[00:35:40]  Yeah.
[00:35:40]  I would love to see someone, though, that's chosen for their merit, not just for what box that they select.
[00:35:46]  Well, then it can't be a girl, because you're saying it's for a box then.
[00:35:48]  But no, there's plenty of qualified girls.
[00:35:49]  Yeah, of course.
[00:35:50]  I mean, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, you know, there's so many that are terrific.
[00:35:53]  So Christine Noam is great.
[00:35:55]  So I just, I want someone who is the most qualified, and if they happen to also, you know, choose a box then, or pick a box, then that's fine.
[00:36:02]  What about you in the future?
[00:36:04]  I mean, there's no way that you haven't either been asked or thought about political office in any way.
[00:36:09]  I love what I get to do.
[00:36:09]  I get to speak my mind.
[00:36:11]  Okay, Tucker Jr. I also love organizing, though, too.
[00:36:15]  So I love the turning point side of it.
[00:36:16]  And so, yeah, but if I can have the impact of a Tucker or of a Rush, what a great life to live.
[00:36:21]  In some ways, you're more impactful than politicians.
[00:36:23]  You can speak your mind.
[00:36:24]  That's true.
[00:36:25]  You could spend time with your family every night.
[00:36:27]  You could travel.
[00:36:28]  Being a politician feels like so dirty and just like, ugh.
[00:36:32]  I'd rather have other people go do that.
[00:36:33]  After I, I agree.
[00:36:36]  After meeting Bobby and, you know, spending a little bit more time with him, I saw him over New Year's and he got this hair-brained idea that I should run for Congress and told Amaryllis, who works with him, to talk to me about it.
[00:36:50]  And so I had a phone call and she was like, Bobby called me last night.
[00:36:54]  He's like, have you talked to Danica yet?
[00:36:57]  And I was like, this is the most crazy idea I have ever heard.
[00:37:02]  But when she was explaining the whole situation about why you do it and the history of politics and especially in a more local way, is that it's generally just people speaking up for the community and what they believe.
[00:37:17]  And that after, of course, I was like, yeah, there's a very low likelihood, no, I'm not going to do this.
[00:37:22]  Is that, you know, people would say, they would say, that's exactly why you should.
[00:37:27]  The reason why you should is because you don't want to.
[00:37:31]  I find it just to be repulsive.
[00:37:34]  Like to have to go to be decent.
[00:37:36]  Tucker says the same thing.
[00:37:37]  I mean, he literally says, like, I hate politicians, I think I've heard him say.
[00:37:40]  Yes, I mean, there's some that I like, but they're very rare.
[00:37:44]  Do you think that every politician is a narcissist then?
[00:37:47]  No, I don't think so.
[00:37:48]  I think there's some really decent people that end up running.
[00:37:50]  They're a majority narcissist.
[00:37:51]  Some are sociopathic.
[00:37:53]  Some are like the 5'8 version of the student council president that always wanted to be important.
[00:37:59]  In fact, that's like a majority of DC.
[00:38:02]  They're all short.
[00:38:03]  No, I'm just, I mean, again, I'm kind of tall.
[00:38:04]  I'm nothing against short people.
[00:38:05]  You are.
[00:38:06]  You're what?
[00:38:06]  6'2?
[00:38:06]  No, no, no.
[00:38:07]  I'm like 6'2, whatever.
[00:38:08]  But no, I will say nothing against short people.
[00:38:11]  I have something against short men who wish that they were tall and they're bitter that they're not tall.
[00:38:14]  Yeah, of course.
[00:38:15]  Right, I think you agree.
[00:38:15]  That's a psychological.
[00:38:16]  Exactly, exactly.
[00:38:18]  What would you, I mean, being close to Trump, it feels like his seemingly narcissistic way of communicating and the way that he delivers can be a very big turnoff.
[00:38:30]  And I find that even in my experience, it seems to be a really big turnoff for women, especially.
[00:38:35]  It seems like a very big trigger for them.
[00:38:37]  And that if he would just turn the volume down, like I was, I would say, like, if it would have been down like 20%, he would have been fine.
[00:38:44]  I'm going to click on that.
[00:38:44]  And I feel like it's down.
[00:38:46]  I'm going to say, Mr. President, Danica has a message for you.
[00:38:49]  And I feel like it's down a little, but would you recommend that to me?
[00:38:53]  Or I don't know, because look, he knows his base really well.
[00:38:56]  What some would call narcissism, other people call confidence.
[00:39:00]  I get it.
[00:39:02]  And I'm kind of out of the world of like Trump should improve because the man is facing 700 years in federal prison.
[00:39:10]  And I would probably be acting crazy.
[00:39:12]  I would say this, though, that, and I'm not saying he's acting crazy, but like however people portray him.
[00:39:16]  He could.
[00:39:18]  Here's what I will say, is that if it's less about how people view Trump's behavior and more about the excellent job he did as president, I think it's a blowout.
[00:39:29]  It's a no-brainer.
[00:39:30]  And I have no idea.
[00:39:32]  People ask me all the time, Charlie can get Trump.
[00:39:33]  I just come, no, I can't.
[00:39:34]  I'm sorry.
[00:39:34]  I can't.
[00:39:35]  I can't get him to do it.
[00:39:36]  I'm sorry.
[00:39:36]  But I will defend him.
[00:39:38]  And I think he was.
[00:39:39]  Here's what I will say: is that I go on so many of these shows and people talk about all the negative stuff about Trump.
[00:39:44]  He has some amazing virtues.
[00:39:45]  And if you're raising a child and they say, well, yeah, I want a president that my child can look up to.
[00:39:51]  Like, okay.
[00:39:51]  So you want like a boring, cut out, like a corporate shill?
[00:39:54]  Or do you want someone that when their back is against the wall, that they keep on fighting and they keep on slugging?
[00:40:00]  I think that's amazingly appealing.
[00:40:02]  I think it's virtuous, actually.
[00:40:04]  So I hear you, Danica.
[00:40:06]  I hear from women all the time.
[00:40:07]  If he would just, if he would just, like, I don't get triggered, I got nothing for you.
[00:40:11]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:40:12]  Like, I got nothing.
[00:40:13]  And I'll say, he can fix the country.
[00:40:16]  You know what I'd say?
[00:40:17]  That it probably has to do with some of their past experience in their life.
[00:40:21]  Danica, you said it.
[00:40:22]  The psychology of it.
[00:40:24]  If I say that, woo!
[00:40:26]  No, it's totally, it's in that.
[00:40:27]  And that's why I think it's more of a female trait to be triggered because it's more manipulation and it tends to be a more massive, men embody more narcissism because they are bosses and in charge.
[00:40:41]  And it's just kind of like the less connected to their feelings.
[00:40:44]  Women are more.
[00:40:45]  There's just generalities with men and women and how it would go.
[00:40:48]  And I think that's why.
[00:40:49]  So I would say that it probably is because some of their programming gives them access to information about themselves that they have.
[00:40:57]  Again, I would use the word confidence.
[00:40:58]  I want someone with confidence when they're dealing with Xi Juping.

=== The Role of Listening (01:11) ===

[00:41:01]  Amen.
[00:41:02]  Right?
[00:41:02]  I want someone who believes in himself, who can assert himself.
[00:41:05]  I'm with you.
[00:41:06]  I'm with you.
[00:41:07]  And I'm also with you if you go down the political route or maybe speaker of the house?
[00:41:12]  Like, is there a role for a really incredible speaker?
[00:41:17]  If I could just have an impact that reaches millions of people every day.
[00:41:20]  Maybe someone that has integrity to run the either run the RNC, right?
[00:41:24]  I'm not doing that.
[00:41:25]  No, I want to build some.
[00:41:26]  I'm an entrepreneur.
[00:41:27]  I love building.
[00:41:28]  I love taking risks.
[00:41:29]  I also, I can't censor myself.
[00:41:31]  I just, I can't do that.
[00:41:33]  I just tell the truth.
[00:41:34]  And I feel like we're making an impact, I think.
[00:41:37]  As a last question, then how do you want to be remembered?
[00:41:40]  I know you're very young and you've accomplished a lot, but I think this will, this is like an end of life.
[00:41:44]  Yeah, like how do you want to, you know?
[00:41:46]  Faithful Christian, loyal husband, good father, and proud patriot.
[00:41:52]  That's my tombstone.
[00:41:53]  I'm going to put it on there.
[00:41:56]  Truth teller.
[00:41:57]  And truth teller, yeah, at the bottom.
[00:41:58]  Truth teller.
[00:41:59]  I like it.
[00:42:00]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:42:01]  Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:42:04]  Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
[00:42:08]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.