The Charlie Kirk Show - Who is REALLY Teaching Your Kids? Live from Dream City Church
Aired: 2024-05-19
Duration: 01:09:59


=== Charlie Kirk Show Launch (01:38) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey everybody, my conversation with George Barna.
[00:00:03]  How many people who are Christian are actually Christian?
[00:00:06]  The data is shocking and we have a question and answer segment with the audience that I think you'll really enjoy.
[00:00:11]  Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.
[00:00:15]  Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show and get involved with Turning PointUSA at tpusa.com.
[00:00:22]  That is tpusa.com.
[00:00:24]  Buckle up everybody.
[00:00:25]  Here we go.
[00:00:26]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:28]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
[00:00:30]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:00:33]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:00:37]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:00:38]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:00:39]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
[00:00:47]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:00:56]  That's why we are here.
[00:00:59]  Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
[00:01:09]  Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.
[00:01:16]  That is noblegoldinvestments.com.
[00:01:18]  It's where I buy all of my gold.
[00:01:20]  Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.
[00:01:24]  They are counting on your surrender.
[00:01:29]  If you give up, they win.
[00:01:31]  But what if we look back and we realize we were just inches away from victory and that's when we decided to give up?

=== Securing 100% Voter Turnout (04:44) ===

[00:01:38]  Join us and thousands of American patriots for the summer convention that all are invited to.
[00:01:46]  You're going to hear how we're going to win in 2024.
[00:01:49]  With the biggest speakers in the movement, featuring President Donald J. Trump.
[00:01:55]  We're going to fight and we're going to win.
[00:01:57]  Charlie Kirk, Devaik Ramaswamy, Governor Christy Nolan, Dr. Ben Carson, Steve Bannon, Candace Owens, Laura Trump, Senator Rick Scott, Congressman Matt Gates, Benny Johnson, Jack Pisovic, and more.
[00:02:19]  June 14th through 16th, 2024 is our final battle in Detroit, Michigan.
[00:02:25]  The great silent majority is rising like never before.
[00:02:28]  Join us for the People's Convention.
[00:02:31]  This is a new ballgame, everybody.
[00:02:33]  You send a message.
[00:02:34]  We play to win.
[00:02:36]  Register now at tpaction.com/slash peoples.
[00:02:46]  Hello, everybody.
[00:02:47]  Please take a seat.
[00:02:48]  Great to see you.
[00:02:49]  What great turnout for we're almost in the summer season.
[00:02:52]  That happened quickly.
[00:02:53]  Happy May, everybody.
[00:02:54]  We have an amazing guest tonight to talk all about worldview.
[00:02:58]  And it's more important than ever as we see what's happening at Columbia, Yale, UCLA, even Arizona State, which by the way, ASU didn't put up with any of that nonsense.
[00:03:07]  They cleared that out quickly as it should be to talk about worldview.
[00:03:12]  It's one of the most important questions, which is, how do you see the world?
[00:03:16]  Do you see it through a Marxist lens, a secular lens?
[00:03:19]  Do you see it through a nihilistic lens, a narcissistic lens?
[00:03:24]  Or do you have a biblical worldview?
[00:03:26]  Now, our guest tonight is a legend.
[00:03:28]  He has been known for multiple decades as the premier pollster, let's just say sociologist who does surveys and analyzes data to find out what does the church believe?
[00:03:43]  What do Christians believe?
[00:03:45]  How many people who say they have a Christian worldview actually do have a Christian worldview?
[00:03:52]  This conversation will shock you, motivate you, and then we'll talk about the path forward.
[00:03:58]  It is none other than George Barna.
[00:04:00]  You know that as the Barna survey or the Barna, let's just say polls.
[00:04:05]  For years, he has been trying to warn people that even though there might be more and more churches popping up in this country, are we creating disciples of all nations or are we just creating converts of all nations that then go away?
[00:04:19]  He is a total legend.
[00:04:20]  I loved speaking to him backstage.
[00:04:22]  And while we were talking, I said, I don't have much to add.
[00:04:25]  So before I introduce him, though, I want to make sure one quick announcement, which is for those of you that might be who here moved recently to this state in the last couple years.
[00:04:35]  Anybody moved in?
[00:04:36]  Okay, I see a lot of hands up.
[00:04:37]  We have to make sure that all of you are registered to vote, okay?
[00:04:42]  So if you are not yet registered to vote, we will share how to do that through an online resource.
[00:04:47]  And Mr. Barna will share the numbers that half of evangelical Christians are even registered to vote, and only half of those actually end up voting.
[00:04:55]  So we have resources for you in the lobby.
[00:04:58]  We'll share for a way that happens online.
[00:05:00]  And coming into this fall, Turning Point Action will help lead this.
[00:05:04]  We're going to be doing some really big Freedom Night events with some big speakers, Angel.
[00:05:08]  I'll tell you in a sec.
[00:05:09]  They're going to be huge.
[00:05:11]  And here is going to be the requirement.
[00:05:13]  We're going to make sure we have 100%, 100% of everyone who attends Freedom Night is voting.
[00:05:20]  And then you're not even allowed into the event in October if you have not voted early or if you not have a pinky promise plan to vote on November.
[00:05:28]  So we're going to make sure we have 100% voter turnout because we need Christians to vote.
[00:05:33]  So we just want to make sure you are registered.
[00:05:35]  That is the first step.
[00:05:37]  So if you are not registered, you move recently to the state.
[00:05:39]  We need you to do that.
[00:05:40]  It is incredibly important.
[00:05:42]  So now join me in welcoming the legend himself, George Barna.
[00:05:46]  Can't wait for this conversation.
[00:06:03]  Well, Mr. Barna, welcome.
[00:06:04]  And by the way, Mr. Barna is a professor at Arizona Christian University, which is a wonderful school here locally that we should really talk more about.
[00:06:13]  They do a great job.
[00:06:15]  They really do.
[00:06:16]  Well, and one of the distinctives of ACU is that our focus is we want everybody to have a biblical worldview.

=== The Disciple Gap Revealed (11:17) ===

[00:06:23]  So every course you take is taught from a biblical worldview perspective.
[00:06:28]  And when you graduate, the idea is, what do you do with a biblical worldview?
[00:06:32]  You only have it because you're called by God to be an agent of cultural transformation.
[00:06:37]  And so that's what we're trying to produce, is more agents of transformation.
[00:06:41]  I love it.
[00:06:43]  So why don't you introduce your body of work?
[00:06:46]  You've been doing this for quite a while.
[00:06:47]  You also have a new book that I want to make sure we all support, Raising Spiritual Champions, Nurturing Your Child's Heart, Mind, and Soul.
[00:06:55]  But just kind of break down for our audience what you've been doing the last couple of decades, what you've learned, and then we'll get into some of the details.
[00:07:02]  Okay, so about 40 years ago when I started doing all of this, there was really no research being done to help churches understand what was going on spiritually in America.
[00:07:12]  So back in the early 80s, we started the Barnum Research Group, started doing all that kind of work, and trying to work with pastors, parachurch ministries to get a grip on reality.
[00:07:25]  And it didn't go well.
[00:07:28]  They didn't like what they were hearing because they thought they were doing a great job, and we had the data showing they weren't doing a great job.
[00:07:35]  And so then we kind of shifted our focus to what would it take for them to do a great job.
[00:07:41]  And that's really what I've been focusing on for the last 35 years or so.
[00:07:46]  And so over the course of that, this is my 60th book.
[00:07:50]  When I do all this research, I try to put it in digestible formats so that people can get their hands on it and read it and think about it and then act upon it.
[00:08:00]  There's no value to having information for its own sake.
[00:08:04]  You've got to have data that will help tell a story about what's going on in society and what you as an individual can do to change it, to bring people closer to Christ.
[00:08:16]  That's the ultimate objective.
[00:08:18]  If we're not doing that, we're failing.
[00:08:20]  Amen.
[00:08:21]  So let's just right out of the gate.
[00:08:23]  How many Christians are there in America?
[00:08:26]  People that call themselves Christians?
[00:08:29]  And what number of those people are actually Christians?
[00:08:34]  Okay.
[00:08:34]  So this gets a little bit messy because of definitions, but people who call themselves Christians among adults in America, that's 66%.
[00:08:44]  If we look at how many people in America will say, I'm a Christian, though, because I know when I die, I'll go to heaven because I confess my sins, accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior.
[00:08:56]  That's my only way of having a place in heaven.
[00:09:00]  That drops it from 66% down to 33 to 34%.
[00:09:06]  Which, by the way, we've got more people than the 66% who actually attend churches.
[00:09:12]  So when you look at the proportion who regularly attend churches, roughly 7 out of 10, and then you look at the proportion who meet that last criteria, they're going to heaven because they confess their sins, accepted Christ as their Savior.
[00:09:25]  We'll call those people born-again Christian.
[00:09:28]  That means that most of the people in our churches are not born again.
[00:09:33]  Why do I bring that up?
[00:09:34]  Because if you want a mission field, go to church.
[00:09:38]  That's where they are.
[00:09:40]  Okay?
[00:09:41]  You've got tens of millions of non-Christians regularly walking into our churches.
[00:09:47]  The sad thing is our research shows that most of those people have been walking in and out of our churches consistently for at least 10 years.
[00:09:56]  So whatever we're doing in church, it's not bringing them closer to Christ.
[00:10:00]  In most cases, obviously there are great churches across the country that are doing phenomenal work.
[00:10:05]  But I'm a sociologist, as Charlie mentioned.
[00:10:08]  I work with data.
[00:10:09]  I deal with averages.
[00:10:10]  On average, we're not changing lives.
[00:10:14]  One of the things that I chide pastors about all the time is, come on, wake up.
[00:10:18]  The culture is changing the church more than the church is changing the culture.
[00:10:22]  So we've got to rethink what it is we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're doing it, and what constitutes success.
[00:10:30]  So to finish off answering your question, 66% call themselves Christian.
[00:10:34]  33 to 34% may be born again.
[00:10:38]  How many of those people are disciples in America?
[00:10:43]  Now, in the Bible, you probably don't know this because I haven't found a church yet that teaches this.
[00:10:49]  But in the Bible, there are six times when Jesus said, this is what makes somebody a disciple.
[00:10:56]  For me, that's the best definition possible.
[00:10:59]  And so you look at John 8, he said, you will be my disciple if you obey my teaching.
[00:11:04]  John 13, he said, you will be my disciple if you love other disciples.
[00:11:09]  John 15, he said, you will be my disciple if you produce a lot of spiritual fruit.
[00:11:14]  Luke 14, he had three consecutive verses where he talked about this.
[00:11:19]  14, 26, he said, you cannot be my disciple unless you love God far and away more than anything else in your life.
[00:11:28]  Luke 14, 27, you cannot be my disciple unless you pick up your cross and follow me.
[00:11:35]  By which he meant in that Roman context, you must submit to the prevailing authority.
[00:11:41]  Who's the prevailing authority?
[00:11:43]  God.
[00:11:44]  And then in Luke 14, 33, he said, and you cannot be my disciple unless you surrender everything for me.
[00:11:53]  So if you look at those six criteria, as I've done in the research, what we find is only 3% of adults in America qualify by Jesus standards as disciples.
[00:12:07]  So not to be cruel, but do a lot of people who then think they're going to heaven probably won't go to heaven?
[00:12:15]  I think that's a fair statement.
[00:12:18]  I'm not God, so I don't know who's going to heaven.
[00:12:20]  Well, just based on the biblical criteria, though, this is not my opinion in your opinion, just based on what the scriptures say.
[00:12:26]  Yeah.
[00:12:28]  Yeah, so you got the 33% or so who say they're going there because they confessed their sins, accepted Christ as their Savior.
[00:12:36]  But then what did he call those people to do?
[00:12:38]  Live it.
[00:12:40]  Live it.
[00:12:40]  Don't just get the eternal life insurance.
[00:12:43]  Actually convert it into a lifestyle where you are concerned about the lives of others.
[00:12:49]  You love God so much that you will do whatever you can to bring other people to the foot of the cross and have their lives completely transformed by Jesus.
[00:12:59]  And that will not happen, by the way, unless you are a disciple.
[00:13:04]  Who makes disciples?
[00:13:06]  Disciples.
[00:13:07]  They're the only people that can make disciples.
[00:13:10]  You can only give what you have if you don't have Jesus fully residing within you.
[00:13:18]  And if you're not living completely for him, you're not going to get other people to fully live for him.
[00:13:24]  And so disciples make disciples.
[00:13:27]  You want to make disciples?
[00:13:29]  Make sure you're a disciple.
[00:13:31]  So let's just break this down further.
[00:13:36]  Christianity has had a renaissance in this country.
[00:13:40]  It's one of the most popular.
[00:13:44]  You're laughing, but by all...
[00:13:47]  I missed it.
[00:13:49]  But by all objective measurements, let's just say tons of churches, buildings, no real Christian persecution as they know in the Middle East, such as almost every president has called himself a Christian.
[00:14:05]  Almost every lawmaker, 90% probably in the 20th century called themselves a Christian.
[00:14:12]  Founding fathers were Christian, and we have more buildings than ever before.
[00:14:16]  There are tens of billions of dollars raised for American Christianity every single year.
[00:14:23]  If you're painting then this grim picture where 66% of people say they're Christian, where we have more Christian music than ever before, we have more buildings and more infrastructure and more pastors and more social media followers.
[00:14:41]  Where did we go wrong?
[00:14:43]  Well, I would say there are three things that we've got to look very carefully at.
[00:14:47]  One would be, let's look at our churches themselves.
[00:14:51]  In our research, we asked a national random sample of pastors of Christian churches, is your church successful?
[00:14:59]  And more than four out of five of them said, oh, yeah.
[00:15:02]  We said, okay, great.
[00:15:03]  How do you know that?
[00:15:04]  What do you measure?
[00:15:05]  What's the evidence?
[00:15:07]  And what we found is that the typical church leader, typical pastor, measures five things.
[00:15:13]  How many people show up, how much money they raise, how many programs they have, how many staff people they've hired, and how much square footage they've built out.
[00:15:21]  Now, I'm a measurement guy, so I'm thrilled that churches are measuring what's going on.
[00:15:26]  But as a measurement guy, I know that if you measure the wrong stuff, you'll get the wrong outcomes.
[00:15:34]  Because you get what you measure.
[00:15:37]  And so we're measuring the wrong thing.
[00:15:39]  See, when I talk about those five things that most churches look at to determine if they're successful, Jesus didn't die for any of those.
[00:15:48]  He didn't die to fill seats in church.
[00:15:50]  He didn't die for a church to have the biggest real estate portfolio in the community.
[00:15:55]  None of that stuff that I named is important to him.
[00:15:58]  What did Jesus die for?
[00:16:00]  People's hearts, their souls.
[00:16:02]  That's what he died for.
[00:16:04]  That's what he wants.
[00:16:10]  And so the counter argument that one would say is, well, we measure how many people raise their hand and give their life to Christ at Easter.
[00:16:18]  Yeah, and my counter argument is, so what?
[00:16:21]  You know, I mean, it's nice that people come and they do something like that, but we find that more often than not, that's a show of emotion.
[00:16:31]  That's not a show of commitment.
[00:16:33]  Because commitment takes a long period of time where you're willing to completely change everything in your life to honor God.
[00:16:42]  And so even the act of coming to church, is that a bad thing?
[00:16:46]  No, it's a good thing, maybe.
[00:16:48]  And so that's not a problem, but that's not the solution.
[00:16:53]  Coming into a church building for a church event isn't the solution.
[00:16:58]  Giving your heart to Jesus is the solution.
[00:17:02]  And what that means is following those six standards that Jesus talked about of, you know, consistently obeying his principles, of loving other disciples, you know, not just smiling at them, but, you know, love is a much deeper commitment than that.
[00:17:21]  Producing a lot of spiritual fruit, not just coming and taking, but going back out into the world, whether it's on the church campus, out in the community, doing whatever you can with the gifts and the abilities and resources that God has entrusted to you, you're supposed to use those to build his kingdom.
[00:17:39]  It's not your kingdom.

=== Living Out Biblical Beliefs (14:34) ===

[00:17:41]  You're not even here for your own purposes.
[00:17:43]  He created you for his purposes.
[00:17:46]  And so you need to understand what that is and dig in and go for it.
[00:17:52]  What percentage of young people, teenagers, have a biblical worldview?
[00:17:57]  We did this study last year in writing this book, Raising Spiritual Champions.
[00:18:01]  We did research with teenagers and with pre-teenagers, and we were measuring their worldview.
[00:18:08]  And right now, only about 1% of America's teenagers, it's between 1% and 2%, but a little closer to 1% of America's teenagers have a biblical worldview.
[00:18:20]  What is a biblical worldview?
[00:18:22]  What it basically means is that you're able to think like Jesus.
[00:18:26]  Why is that important?
[00:18:28]  Because if you want to be a disciple, what does that mean?
[00:18:31]  That you live like Jesus.
[00:18:33]  How would you get to live like Jesus?
[00:18:35]  That's where the connection is.
[00:18:37]  You do what you believe.
[00:18:40]  You do what you believe.
[00:18:42]  So your beliefs are vitally important.
[00:18:45]  Why?
[00:18:46]  Because you do what you believe.
[00:18:48]  And so if you want to live like Jesus, you want to be a disciple.
[00:18:53]  First, you've got to think like Jesus.
[00:18:55]  And that's why a biblical worldview is so important.
[00:18:58]  That's what a biblical worldview is.
[00:19:00]  Believing the same things that Jesus believed.
[00:19:03]  How do we know what he believed?
[00:19:05]  It's what he taught us in his ministry.
[00:19:08]  It's what he passed down to the disciples who then showed us those things.
[00:19:14]  We've got that all in the Bible.
[00:19:16]  The Bible is the guidebook that shows us what a biblical worldview is.
[00:19:20]  So can you break down further the criteria of how you measure that?
[00:19:23]  Because I'm sure some skeptics say, come on, it's got to be more than 1%.
[00:19:27]  But you've been doing this for multiple decades.
[00:19:28]  You are the gold standard of this.
[00:19:30]  You also have tons of, you have so much data that you can then use crosstabs on over so you know you're accurate.
[00:19:38]  To see trend lines is what I'm getting at.
[00:19:40]  And I hope you understand that when you do something for multiple decades in sociology, you start to see trend lines.
[00:19:47]  For example, if one year he says 1% of teenagers have a biblical worldview, and the next year it's 11%, well, then something's off, right?
[00:19:54]  So, can you speak to that eventually too?
[00:19:56]  Because I'm sure there's some critics of your data.
[00:19:58]  I think his data is spot on, because when you do it over a long period of time, you realize that you can't fake the trends because you're surveying different people and therefore you're getting this almost the same result.
[00:20:07]  But can you talk about what is the criteria of how you measure a biblical worldview?
[00:20:12]  We have about 40 different questions that we utilize to look at different aspects of a person's personal beliefs, but also their behavior.
[00:20:22]  Because again, you do what you believe.
[00:20:24]  Now, a lot of people have beliefs that may be in harmony with the scriptures, but they don't live them out.
[00:20:32]  Which says to me, well, then they don't really believe that.
[00:20:35]  Because if they did, they'd act on it.
[00:20:38]  You only act on the things that you think are real and right and proper and appropriate.
[00:20:44]  And so that's why we have those checks and balances built into this, both beliefs and behavior.
[00:20:50]  And there are eight different categories that we measure of beliefs and behavior: Bible, truth, and morals, the character and nature of God, sin, salvation, and eternity.
[00:21:01]  I mean, all these different things that we look at in terms of what is the nature of your belief structure.
[00:21:07]  So that's what we've been measuring over time.
[00:21:10]  And you're exactly right, Charlie.
[00:21:11]  I mean, when we study the numbers after a survey is done, we compare it to what came before to make sure that not only did we get a good sample, a representative sample, but that we can see what's going on over the course of time.
[00:21:26]  Each of these surveys is kind of like a photograph.
[00:21:30]  But if you think about your family, think about your children, if you have children, grown children in particular.
[00:21:36]  If you look at the photographs of them over the course of time, it tells a story.
[00:21:42]  You can see how they've changed over time.
[00:21:44]  And our surveys are exactly like that.
[00:21:46]  We can see what's happening over time.
[00:21:49]  I can see that with young people.
[00:21:50]  I can pull out men versus women.
[00:21:53]  I can pull out blacks versus whites versus Hispanics versus Asians.
[00:21:57]  And we do all of that.
[00:21:59]  If you're interested in any of this, I put all this for free on our website at Arizona Christian University.
[00:22:05]  It's culturalresearchcenter.com.
[00:22:08]  You can download all the reports.
[00:22:10]  But you can see what's going on in our culture.
[00:22:12]  And for the last 35 years, I started doing this with Chuck Coulson back in the early 90s.
[00:22:19]  And Chuck was a mentor of mine.
[00:22:21]  And we get together and he said, you know, I'd love to know more about worldview.
[00:22:26]  And you've been studying beliefs for it was about 10 years at that point.
[00:22:30]  He said, could you do a study for me where we start looking at world view?
[00:22:34]  And we did, and he was appalled.
[00:22:35]  And that's why his last major book was How Now Shall We Live, which is a takeoff on Francis Schaefer's book, How Then Shall We Live.
[00:22:43]  Two great books about worldview.
[00:22:46]  So it's imperative that you be measuring the same things over the course of time so that you've got an apples-to-apples comparison, that you've got a good sampling of the public, and then you can really tell the story.
[00:22:59]  So, Lynn, let's look at the photograph just in the last couple of years.
[00:23:02]  What does the succession of photographs, to use that metaphor, look post-COVID?
[00:23:06]  Has America become more religious?
[00:23:08]  Have we become more serious about our faith?
[00:23:10]  How does the church look differently with that succession of photographs in just the last four years?
[00:23:17]  I think one of the most harmful things about the lockdowns was that most Americans spent an enormous amount of time paying attention to media, arts and entertainment media, and information and news media.
[00:23:33]  Why do I say that's harmful?
[00:23:36]  all the research that I've been doing for the last 20 years on what influences the way that we think and the way that we live indicates that the arts and entertainment media have a majority of the impact on what we choose as our beliefs and our lifestyle.
[00:23:54]  And the problem with that is that as you study the messages that are being sent through those media, what we find is that there's no consistency.
[00:24:03]  I'm not a big conspiracy guy in terms of, oh, there's a media conspiracy to destroy the worldview of Americans.
[00:24:11]  But I'm praying for him, so it's okay.
[00:24:14]  There's definitely a conspiracy to destroy the country.
[00:24:17]  Oh, no, there are conspiracies.
[00:24:19]  I'm not saying there aren't conspiracies.
[00:24:20]  Oh, no, no, I'm giving you a hard time, by the way.
[00:24:22]  Well, I'm being serious.
[00:24:24]  Okay.
[00:24:28]  But in the media, I mean, their lust is power and money.
[00:24:33]  Okay, and so they'll create anything that gets an audience because it gives them power and money.
[00:24:41]  But what does not give them an audience?
[00:24:43]  Well, in their minds, glorifying God, raising up the Savior, you know, promoting biblical truth.
[00:24:51]  They don't think any of that would sell.
[00:24:54]  And so instead, what we're getting are the ideas that they feel comfortable with, which is Marxism, secular humanism, postmodernism, Eastern mysticism, nihilism, Wicca, Satanism.
[00:25:08]  And I'm not just throwing these out.
[00:25:09]  I study these things.
[00:25:10]  We have research data on these things.
[00:25:14]  And so I know that's what's in media.
[00:25:16]  And during the COVID period, people were more intensely exposed to those kinds of messages.
[00:25:24]  And they became increasingly comfortable with those kinds of messages.
[00:25:30]  And so you ask, have we become more religious?
[00:25:33]  No.
[00:25:34]  What we found is since COVID, there's been a significant decrease in people's church attendance, a significant decrease in people's Bible reading, a significant decrease in people's praying, a significant decrease in the proportion of Americans who say that they will take time during the week to praise and worship and thank God.
[00:25:56]  A significant decrease in the proportion of Americans who would say that they spend time intentionally seeking to know God's will for their life.
[00:26:06]  Well, when you have that kind of a trend line in all of those critical dimensions, I mean, you can't help but conclude we're definitely on the wrong path.
[00:26:17]  So let's kind of get into the part of, was there ever a time in your research where you saw a change of trend for the better, whether it be a short period of time?
[00:26:28]  I don't know the answer to this.
[00:26:30]  If yes, what would that be for?
[00:26:32]  For example, after 9-11, did you see any change in the data of how people came together or we de-radicalized for a short period of time?
[00:26:43]  9-11 didn't do that.
[00:26:44]  Okay.
[00:26:45]  What we found was that for the four weeks right after the attack, church attendance zoomed.
[00:26:54]  But after four weeks...
[00:26:55]  It didn't stick.
[00:26:56]  Yeah, there was no sustenance to it.
[00:26:58]  So let me ask, sorry to interrupt, but like the great recession of 2008, 2009, did we see any spiritual development trends there?
[00:27:05]  No.
[00:27:05]  No.
[00:27:06]  So basically, your research has just been a basically the photograph is just like a slow-motion collapse of everything good.
[00:27:14]  At the end of the 80s through the mid-90s, we saw a little period of time where more people became interested in Jesus.
[00:27:22]  So why was it the climax of Billy Graham?
[00:27:25]  I'm interested of...
[00:27:27]  I don't know why.
[00:27:28]  To be honest.
[00:27:29]  Yep.
[00:27:30]  But we also know that by 1994, 95 in that range, then it went back down to the previous levels, and then it's slowly declined since.
[00:27:40]  It's been down the downward slope ever since.
[00:27:43]  Yes, sir.
[00:27:43]  So the book is Raising Spiritual Champions.
[00:27:45]  Let's get into this.
[00:27:47]  So this is very heavy stuff.
[00:27:48]  Some people would say it's awfully depressing.
[00:27:50]  What can we do about it?
[00:27:52]  And what in your research is the single or the two or three most hopeful data points?
[00:27:58]  in all of the very negative, understandably negative, yet real stuff we've talked about.
[00:28:04]  All right, let me answer that this way.
[00:28:06]  There are three things that I think we need to pay real close attention to.
[00:28:11]  First and foremost is family.
[00:28:14]  We've got to look at parents.
[00:28:16]  Parents in America, 2% of the parents of children under the age of 13 have a biblical worldview.
[00:28:24]  2%.
[00:28:25]  Remember what I said before, you can't give what you don't have.
[00:28:28]  And so when I talk about the fact that only 1% of teenagers, 1% of preteens have a biblical worldview, to me it's not surprising.
[00:28:37]  Depressing, sure, but it's not surprising because who's influencing them?
[00:28:44]  Well, the top influence, as I mentioned, is the arts and entertainment media.
[00:28:48]  The second influence would be their family, their parents in particular.
[00:28:53]  Neither of those groups is going to lead them to a biblical worldview.
[00:28:57]  The third one is church.
[00:28:59]  Now, we find that in America today, churches aren't even in the top 20 entities in a person's life that are having influence.
[00:29:09]  Churches just aren't having influence.
[00:29:11]  Can you list the top five?
[00:29:13]  I'm not a quiz.
[00:29:14]  I'm just curious.
[00:29:15]  Like, what would they be?
[00:29:16]  Like, employer, maybe?
[00:29:17]  I'm an old man.
[00:29:17]  I don't have much memory.
[00:29:19]  Have mercy on me.
[00:29:20]  I'm guessing, like, employer, spouse, celebrity figure.
[00:29:23]  It's finals week at ACU.
[00:29:25]  I feel like I'm taking my final, you know?
[00:29:29]  And I didn't study.
[00:29:31]  Yeah.
[00:29:32]  Okay, so the top six are arts and entertainment media, family, peers, schools, news and information media.
[00:29:46]  It's five.
[00:29:47]  Five out of six.
[00:29:48]  Can I get a B?
[00:29:49]  Yeah, that's good.
[00:29:51]  Maybe employer.
[00:29:52]  I don't know where that falls.
[00:29:53]  No, that's not on the list, okay?
[00:29:55]  Oh, gosh.
[00:29:56]  But religious figure is not till 20 is what you're saying.
[00:29:59]  It's actually lower than that.
[00:30:01]  Yeah, I was trying to be kind.
[00:30:03]  Okay.
[00:30:04]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:06]  And there are other ones.
[00:30:08]  But what that says then, okay, if we want to turn it around, the bad news is it's a mess.
[00:30:15]  The good news is, but we know what's causing the mess.
[00:30:18]  Parents are not concerned about the spiritual development of their children.
[00:30:24]  And when they are, they use something I refer to in the book as the outsourcing approach to parenting.
[00:30:32]  And what that means, this is the most common approach to parenting in America today.
[00:30:36]  Parents love their kids so much, and yet they're so busy and overwhelmed, they say, you know, I don't really have time to do it.
[00:30:44]  I don't think I could do a good job with the time I have, with the lack of training I'm suffering from.
[00:30:50]  So what I'm going to do, I'm going to go out and hire all the best people I can find to raise my child for me.
[00:30:58]  And so we hire coaches, we hire tutors, we drop kids off at churches, we put them in private schools.
[00:31:04]  We do all these things that are geared to giving our kids the best developers that we can find based on the world's standards.
[00:31:15]  Now, as I did the research on that, what I discovered is that that's problematic.
[00:31:19]  It's nice that you love your kids.
[00:31:21]  It's nice that you're willing to spend the money on them.
[00:31:23]  The problem is almost all of those developers have non-biblical worldviews.
[00:31:31]  And so all the people who are raising them in your stead are giving them an entree into the world.
[00:31:39]  They're teaching them that what the world says is right is right.
[00:31:43]  And so that's problematic.
[00:31:45]  So parents, number one, have to recognize that the Bible teaches the single most important thing that you will do in your life is love Jesus Christ with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul.
[00:31:56]  The second most important thing that you will do is raise your children to do the same thing.
[00:32:03]  And then the third thing that you can do is bring that to other people.
[00:32:06]  But we've forgotten all about that mandate to raise our children to be disciples of Jesus.
[00:32:14]  And so what do we do?

=== Raising Children as Disciples (03:22) ===

[00:32:15]  We drop them off at church.
[00:32:16]  We say, church, you deal with it.
[00:32:18]  You're the religious professionals.
[00:32:20]  We're outsourcing this to you.
[00:32:22]  Here's the dirty secret about what's going on in children's ministry in churches.
[00:32:27]  Only 12%, one out of every eight children's pastors in America, has a biblical worldview.
[00:32:36]  So what that means is in seven out of eight cases, we're doing more spiritual damage to children by bringing them to church than by keeping them at home.
[00:32:47]  It also says that if you're a parent and you want the church to help you, because the church does, local church, does have a role in this.
[00:32:54]  And by the way, there are some great children's ministries in America, you know, about one out of eight, but, you know, there are some great ones.
[00:33:02]  So I'm not saying it can't be done.
[00:33:04]  I'm just saying you, if you're a parent, if you're a grandparent, you've got to do your homework.
[00:33:11]  Shame on you if you just bring a kid, bring your child or your grandchild to a church that's fun.
[00:33:20]  They're not there to have fun.
[00:33:22]  They're not there to meet other kids.
[00:33:24]  They're there to meet Jesus Christ and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
[00:33:32]  So you've got to take that responsibility seriously.
[00:33:36]  I was interviewed today on some radio show and they said, well, you know, how do you do that?
[00:33:41]  It's like you make an appointment with the children's pastor.
[00:33:44]  You sit down and you interview them.
[00:33:47]  And the host said, well, but they probably aren't going to like that.
[00:33:50]  Say, good, get up and walk out.
[00:33:52]  I mean, if they can't take a parent interviewing them about what do you think you're going to do with my child, if they won't tell you that, looking you in the eyes, walk out of that place because it's dangerous.
[00:34:07]  If you like what you're hearing from the pastor, then ask to see the curriculum that they're using.
[00:34:13]  Because there's a lot of awful curriculum in churches across the country that's non-biblical.
[00:34:19]  It's happy talk.
[00:34:21]  And your children don't need happy talk.
[00:34:23]  They need truth.
[00:34:25]  And so you've got to make sure that the curriculum being used is biblical.
[00:34:30]  Thirdly, ask them, show me the agenda for what you do during the hour you have my child.
[00:34:35]  If it's filled up mostly by games and singing and puzzles and crafts and all this other stuff, wrong place.
[00:34:43]  They get them one hour a week.
[00:34:45]  We've got to maximize that time.
[00:34:48]  They want to make friends, do it somewhere else.
[00:34:50]  You want to have fun?
[00:34:51]  Go out in the backyard with them after church.
[00:34:54]  Okay, but when they're there, make sure they're getting a heavy dose of Jesus.
[00:34:59]  Now, the other thing to keep in mind is that the only reason that a children's ministry exists is to support parents in raising the children.
[00:35:10]  It's not to do the job for you.
[00:35:12]  It's to help you do the job, which means they better be willing to communicate with you throughout the week because you're the one responsible.
[00:35:22]  They're there to help you.
[00:35:24]  So those are just some thoughts.
[00:35:26]  So what gives you hope again?
[00:35:27]  So then I'm an old man and I'm going home soon.

=== Engaging the Confused World (16:22) ===

[00:35:37]  Fair enough.
[00:35:39]  I do want to get to some questions here, but let's talk about some action.
[00:35:43]  Sorry, let me do one more thing.
[00:35:44]  I understand that things are falling apart.
[00:35:48]  I do this to everybody I'm with.
[00:35:49]  Yeah.
[00:35:50]  What gives me hope?
[00:35:51]  What gives me hope is scripture, okay?
[00:35:53]  Because I read that, and what I see is that God often changed entire cultures, entire cities, entire city-states, you know, depending on the polity of the age.
[00:36:07]  But what we found is that God never waits until he has majority to completely revolutionize a community.
[00:36:17]  Okay?
[00:36:18]  We find, in fact, Gideon's a great example.
[00:36:22]  So Gideon's going up against the Midianites.
[00:36:24]  Midianites have 135,000 people in their army.
[00:36:27]  Gideon's got a much smaller army.
[00:36:29]  I don't remember the number, but I think it was about 30,000.
[00:36:32]  And God looks at this, and Gideon says, okay, are we ready to go?
[00:36:36]  And God said, no, you know what?
[00:36:38]  Get rid of half your army.
[00:36:40]  And then, you know, okay, now are we ready?
[00:36:43]  They go through this until finally Gideon's left with 300 people.
[00:36:47]  And God says, now you're ready.
[00:36:50]  300 against 135,000 who were ready to slaughter Gideon and his men.
[00:36:56]  And Gideon and his men won.
[00:36:58]  Why?
[00:36:59]  Because they had God on their side.
[00:37:00]  So it's not about numbers.
[00:37:05]  This may be one of the few times that you'll ever hear me say it's not about numbers, okay?
[00:37:12]  But the key is we've got 3% of adults in America who are genuine disciples of Jesus.
[00:37:21]  We can turn this country upside down with that 3%.
[00:37:24]  If that 3%, if that 3% is willing to get out of the armchair and go out into the world and be Jesus to a hurting, suffering, confused, distracted world, we are the solution to their problem because we have Jesus living within us.
[00:37:45]  We have the Holy Spirit empowering us.
[00:37:48]  We have the truth of God in his word.
[00:37:50]  We've got the armor of God protecting us.
[00:37:53]  We have no excuse for not getting out and saying, this is nothing.
[00:38:00]  We can do this.
[00:38:01]  We serve the living God who's sending us into battle in this culture.
[00:38:06]  Every day when you wake up, you are waking up as a spiritual warrior.
[00:38:11]  So go get it.
[00:38:13]  Amen.
[00:38:14]  Let's start lining up for questions, guys.
[00:38:17]  And it was 3% of the American colonists that led the American Revolution.
[00:38:24]  3%.
[00:38:26]  3%.
[00:38:27]  So that's fitting, that number.
[00:38:29]  That's the exact percentage based on multiple historical analysis.
[00:38:34]  97% of Americans during the Revolutionary War wanted nothing to do with it.
[00:38:40]  Now, 33% were sympathetic.
[00:38:42]  Similar number.
[00:38:44]  Right?
[00:38:44]  33, 34.
[00:38:46]  33% were sympathetic.
[00:38:48]  33% were loyal to the crown.
[00:38:51]  And 33% said, I want nothing to do with it.
[00:38:54]  And out of the 33%, 3% were the actual movers and doers.
[00:38:59]  And we defeated the greatest empire the world had ever known and created the freest society the world has ever known.
[00:39:06]  So some nice parallels with some numbers there.
[00:39:09]  All right, yes, ma'am.
[00:39:11]  Just let's keep the questions short.
[00:39:13]  We didn't do questions last month because we had Dr. Grossman, which was the right move to let her talk, which is so deep, so great.
[00:39:19]  So let's get to a lot of questions.
[00:39:20]  I know there's a lot waiting.
[00:39:22]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:39:23]  Sure.
[00:39:24]  So there's a range of about 49 to 51% of American adults are single right now.
[00:39:30]  We're living in a crazy dating crisis.
[00:39:33]  And so my question is, you use an example of the mission field of our churches.
[00:39:39]  I think a lot of the people that come in and out are currently single.
[00:39:42]  Is that on your radar for research or do you have any feedback for us?
[00:39:46]  I'd love some numbers to bring to congregations and see if we can get something going.
[00:39:51]  Yeah, we do see that in the data.
[00:39:52]  We see that number growing.
[00:39:54]  We see the number of people who say they don't want to get married increasing.
[00:39:59]  We have a majority of people in America now who believe that sex without marriage is morally acceptable.
[00:40:06]  We have a growing proportion of people who say they never want to have children.
[00:40:11]  And so you put that all together along with almost seven out of ten who say that, you know, people of the same gender marrying each other is legitimate marriage.
[00:40:24]  You know, so yeah, I mean, we've got a real mess on our hands with that.
[00:40:29]  And it is right now getting worse.
[00:40:32]  Could it change?
[00:40:33]  Absolutely.
[00:40:34]  Everything that I've talked about, everything that I study is changeable.
[00:40:38]  But again, we've got to have the change agents who are informed, who are committed, and who invest themselves in the change process.
[00:40:47]  Yeah, and just to expound on that, number one, the fertility rate is the lowest it's ever been in America.
[00:40:52]  So we are having less babies than ever before in the history of our country.
[00:40:56]  And it will go down significantly from here.
[00:40:58]  We have just started to see the plummeting.
[00:41:02]  It's below replacement level numbers.
[00:41:04]  It's at 1.7.
[00:41:06]  Replacement is 2.1.
[00:41:08]  And so we are going down, down, down dramatically.
[00:41:11]  Having children is no longer something that is a value.
[00:41:16]  This is what's very important.
[00:41:17]  And we learned this because in human history, we considered reproduction to be a norm and that everyone wanted to have children.
[00:41:25]  No, that's not correct.
[00:41:27]  What people want to do is to have the pleasure that you get from having a child.
[00:41:33]  And if you have the technology to prevent you from having that child, they will decide not to have the child.
[00:41:38]  And that's what we've learned in the last 20 years, which is mind-blowing, which is that children are an inconvenience to the West.
[00:41:46]  And you see that in the data.
[00:41:48]  We do.
[00:41:48]  And also, we can make a political link here between immigration.
[00:41:53]  Exactly.
[00:41:53]  That's why they want open borders, because they'll say, we're going to allow the third worlders to have kids for you, because we don't want to have kids.
[00:42:02]  Secondly, I would say the vast majority of young Christians that I talk to do not believe that premarital sex is wrong.
[00:42:11]  The vast majority of churches we work with do not even teach against premarital sex.
[00:42:16]  And the majority of Christian schools here in Scottsdale, I had a mom come up to me about a local Catholic school, and she says all the girls by age 16 or 17 except the couple have all lost their virginity, basically.
[00:42:29]  So it is standard operating procedure if they're not lesbian or gay or whatever, which by the way is one out of three kids in most urban areas are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender.
[00:42:39]  45% of kids at Brown University are gay.
[00:42:42]  And so, yeah, I mean, this is not uplifting, but it is true.
[00:42:47]  And then, yeah, I mean, marriages can, so young men increasingly don't want to get married because they could just watch artificial intelligence pornography.
[00:42:54]  You know, talking to a woman is just too much work.
[00:42:56]  Why do that?
[00:42:58]  And we've calculated, not we, but the, I'm sure your data is better than all of it, but it's about five to six men, five to six million men that have just disappeared.
[00:43:07]  They've just checked out, basically.
[00:43:08]  They're not getting married.
[00:43:09]  They don't really have jobs.
[00:43:10]  They kind of live with their parents.
[00:43:11]  They might do a little bit of side hustles here or there.
[00:43:14]  And they've just gone off the grid.
[00:43:16]  We don't know where they've gone or what they're doing.
[00:43:18]  And they want nothing to do with society.
[00:43:21]  Yes.
[00:43:23]  I was involved in a campus Bible study for a lot of years, and they preached a message pretty similar to what you're preaching here tonight.
[00:43:31]  They would always specifically highlight Matthew 16, 24 and Mark 8, 34.
[00:43:38]  They kind of say the same thing.
[00:43:39]  Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me.
[00:43:44]  I like to think of it as the start of every day.
[00:43:47]  You know, you're praying in the morning.
[00:43:49]  That's kind of your humbling and self-denial.
[00:43:52]  And then you get going into the world and you pick up your cross, you start your day, you go out into the world, and you follow and you share.
[00:43:59]  I'm just wondering to you, of those three things, deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me, is there a level of importance to those things in the way that Jesus said them?
[00:44:10]  And another question, just when did you realize that there was kind of a fake version of Christianity 40 or so years ago?
[00:44:18]  At what age did you realize that?
[00:44:20]  Yeah, I have no idea if Jesus had a hierarchy of priorities with those three things.
[00:44:26]  But I would say that he mentioned all three things because they all matter.
[00:44:31]  So it's not up to me to choose which matters.
[00:44:34]  I'm not saying you do that, but clearly all three of those matter.
[00:44:38]  At what age did I figure out that things were going in the wrong direction?
[00:44:42]  Pretty soon after I started doing research.
[00:44:46]  So the age, I was 30 when I started my company.
[00:44:51]  So by the age of 31, I realized there was trouble.
[00:44:57]  Thank you.
[00:44:58]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:44:59]  Two real quick questions, I think, real quick.
[00:45:02]  One is Bible versions.
[00:45:05]  We were talking about, say, Sunday school being games, not really getting down to business.
[00:45:13]  Are some of the Bible versions watered down too much to be effective, or is that all the Holy Spirit?
[00:45:20]  Second question, my husband and I are frustrated by our Democrat Christian friends who seem to be okay with, oh, there are gay people and abortion, you know, the poor girl, that stuff.
[00:45:38]  Can you talk to that?
[00:45:40]  Yeah, I'm happy to start.
[00:45:41]  So I've said this before and I got in a lot of trouble.
[00:45:45]  So I'll repeat it again clearly and I will say it more lovingly than I said it previously.
[00:45:56]  I do not believe you can be an actual Christian with a biblical worldview and vote for the Democrat Party in America.
[00:46:06]  I do not believe you could do that.
[00:46:08]  Now that does not mean that if you vote Republican, you're a Christian or you get points in heaven.
[00:46:15]  But I do not believe that you can call yourself a Christian with a worldview that is rooted in Scripture and vote for a party that mutilates children, that there's a million abortions every single year, is eradicating our southern border, and has on Easter Sunday, they call it Transgender Visibility Day and not a proclamation of the Lord's Day.
[00:46:42]  So I don't know if that will be awfully persuasive for your friends, but they might call themselves Christians and it's probably futile to dive into it.
[00:46:50]  And this is, again, we're just going based on this entire conversation of are you actually a Christian?
[00:46:56]  If you call yourself a Christian, by the fruit you will know them.
[00:47:00]  And based on what scripture says, I do not believe those two things can harmonize.
[00:47:03]  So what can we do to respond to those people?
[00:47:06]  Well, at first, let me just kind of go through the ones you mentioned.
[00:47:08]  First, they say, well, there are gay people.
[00:47:10]  Well, yeah, there are adulterers, and there are gamblers, and there are fornicators.
[00:47:15]  We don't doubt that there are people that struggle with sin.
[00:47:19]  The question is, do you create a new civil rights category for every sin?
[00:47:24]  Oh, you know, we have an entire month of July just for adulterers.
[00:47:31]  We have the month of August just for embezzlers.
[00:47:37]  And the month of September is for all the people that covet.
[00:47:41]  And we're going to have pride for that.
[00:47:43]  So we recognize that they exist, obviously, and we have love for those people.
[00:47:47]  The question is, is that your identity?
[00:47:50]  There are only two identities that matter to the divine, saved or unsaved.
[00:47:55]  That's it.
[00:47:55]  Those are the only two identities that matter.
[00:47:59]  And if you play into this idea that your identity is in your sexual behavior, well, then you're falling short of the glory of God.
[00:48:07]  Secondly, on the abortion thing, they say, oh, you know, poor woman or whatever.
[00:48:13]  Okay, well, 50% chance that it's a woman in the woman.
[00:48:17]  So poor woman that you're terminating, that you're throwing into a trash can.
[00:48:21]  Number two, which is, wait a second, poor woman, where's the sympathy for the being that isn't there?
[00:48:28]  And how did she get pregnant in the first place?
[00:48:32]  Again, less than 1% of all abortions are by rape and incest.
[00:48:36]  She made a decision to engage in the act of having a child, right?
[00:48:42]  Which there's kids here, so I'll be a little bit, you know, cryptic, vague.
[00:48:47]  And you have made that decision, and we're now supposed to allow you to intervene and terminate another sovereign life made in the image of the divine so that you can go have orgasms without a consequence.
[00:49:01]  Like, if it's your body, your choice, then take responsibility for your pleasure.
[00:49:08]  You want to go to this?
[00:49:12]  You can see why I get myself in trouble.
[00:49:14]  What was the first part of your question?
[00:49:15]  I don't remember.
[00:49:18]  Bible versions, yes.
[00:49:19]  So I think Mr. Barna knows this better than I do.
[00:49:22]  But yes, we did an entire podcast on this, laughing and reading from the message translation.
[00:49:30]  And it is so awful.
[00:49:32]  And I'm not trying to make you feel bad if you read the message, but you have to stop reading the message if you're reading it.
[00:49:37]  It is so, I'll give you an example.
[00:49:39]  I'm paraphrasing, but there's a Bible translation out there where they say, Jesus went with his friends to go plan a picnic, and they ran out of food.
[00:49:48]  And next thing you know, Jesus made some magic happen and the 5,000 had food.
[00:49:54]  You think I'm kidding?
[00:49:56]  That's where Bible translations are going.
[00:49:58]  I'm a stickler for one of two translations, the King James or the New King James or the ESV.
[00:50:03]  Those are the three that I use.
[00:50:05]  Not because I believe I know the Koigne Greek better than others, but almost every major revival that we have used the New King James Version.
[00:50:15]  There's something about that translation that speaks to the heart, that gets people to repent and leads to revival.
[00:50:22]  Do you have thoughts on that?
[00:50:24]  Yeah, I mean, there are three different types of Bibles that get used.
[00:50:27]  There are literal translations, there are paraphrases, and there's some other term for the message.
[00:50:34]  I forget what it is.
[00:50:35]  Yes.
[00:50:36]  It is, you know.
[00:50:37]  It might be crap.
[00:50:38]  I don't know.
[00:50:38]  Yeah, there you go.
[00:50:39]  Yeah.
[00:50:41]  It's just screenwriting at some point.
[00:50:43]  Yeah, I mean, it's a creative writing class, basically.
[00:50:46]  Yeah.
[00:50:47]  So, you know, when you choose a Bible, I mean, there are guides that will help you figure out how accurate they are to the original texts that were in the Greek or the Aramaic or Hebrew or whatever the fragments were that we found archaeologically.
[00:51:05]  And so if I were you, I mean, that's what we do, is we look at, okay, how accurate are these according to the original manuscripts?
[00:51:13]  That's what you want.
[00:51:15]  I mean, only because we don't read the original biblical languages, do we have to use the translations that come to us today?
[00:51:23]  But we want translations that are as close to the original as possible.
[00:51:27]  Thank you.
[00:51:28]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:51:29]  I have a question for, I'm like, just what's the percentage of the church that has false teaching?
[00:51:37]  What is the percentage of the church that holds to God's teaching?
[00:51:39]  That holds to false teaching.
[00:51:41]  Holds to false.
[00:51:42]  That's a great question.
[00:51:42]  So her question is: what percentage of churches will engage in what you would call false teaching?
[00:51:51]  It's a difficult question for one reason for me.
[00:51:56]  And that's because it's not black and white.

=== Leading to Truth Through Relationships (04:33) ===

[00:52:00]  What I find is that churches that engage in errant biblical teaching also sometimes provide biblical teaching.
[00:52:11]  And that's what makes it even more insidious, is that I can go and for four weeks I can hear biblical messages and then week five.
[00:52:21]  My pastor might be off the wall scripturally, but he's kind of built up my trust level, which is one of the great reasons why I shouldn't be relying on the teaching of somebody else when it comes to scripture.
[00:52:40]  I need to know it well enough that what that person in the pulpit is doing is reminding me or challenging me, but not informing me.
[00:52:52]  I should know it well enough that I can tell when they're wrong.
[00:52:58]  Thank you.
[00:53:00]  Yes, ma'am.
[00:53:01]  Hi.
[00:53:02]  In this society that has a what I like to call a feed me mentality, feed me your truth, feed me your opinion, feed me your absolutes, what can we do to say, skillfully say, hey, here's the knife and the fork.
[00:53:19]  You need to cut the meat and see what's wrong, see what's wrong with it.
[00:53:23]  In other words, how do we give a relevant absolute truth in a world that says absolute truth is not necessary, nor does it exist?
[00:53:32]  Well, one of the things that we've been studying for the last couple years, I'll have a book on it coming out next year about discipling people.
[00:53:39]  And that's basically what you're saying.
[00:53:41]  How do you disciple somebody who doesn't accept truth?
[00:53:44]  Where do you start?
[00:53:45]  What do you do?
[00:53:46]  And it's important, I think, to understand how discipleship works.
[00:53:50]  It doesn't happen in small groups.
[00:53:53]  It doesn't really happen in church services.
[00:53:55]  It happens through relationships.
[00:53:58]  That's the way that Jesus discipled people.
[00:54:01]  You know, that's how disciples were made in the early church.
[00:54:03]  So it's all about developing a relationship where the person trusts you and where you have the opportunity to share time and experiences with them.
[00:54:15]  And then the key is what I refer to as Socratic dialogue.
[00:54:22]  The way that Socrates taught his students, he didn't come in and download information to them.
[00:54:28]  He came in and he asked them questions.
[00:54:30]  What do you believe about the sun?
[00:54:32]  Why do you believe that?
[00:54:34]  You know, what would the evidence of that be?
[00:54:36]  So he wasn't telling them, no, you're an idiot if you believe that.
[00:54:40]  Let me tell you the way it works.
[00:54:42]  He let the person come to that conclusion simply by asking them questions.
[00:54:48]  And what happens so often, particularly spiritually, because there is truth, we know truth when we encounter it.
[00:54:56]  Now, we may choose to reject it, but God's truth is God's truth.
[00:55:00]  It doesn't change, and it's not going away.
[00:55:02]  So when we have these Socratic dialogues with people, if somebody wants to become a disciple or you want them to become a disciple and they're not sure and they're on the fence, just by having these kinds of conversations with them where you get to ask them, really, you believe abortion is acceptable?
[00:55:20]  Why do you think that?
[00:55:21]  And then going through, taking what they say and just asking more questions and going deeper and deeper and deeper, more times than not, what you discover is that that individual hears their own answers and actually comes to the conclusion, wow, I'm going to keep on this train because I don't want to embarrass myself.
[00:55:41]  But when I leave here, I realize how stupid my point of view is.
[00:55:47]  And then they start rethinking some things.
[00:55:49]  Now, they're not going to turn like that necessarily, but you've started the train moving in a different direction.
[00:55:56]  And that's why that relationship is so critical, because you keep sharing experiences and conversations and ideas with them.
[00:56:05]  And eventually you get to lead them to truth without having to beat them over the head with the Bible or tell them that they're idiots for not buying it outright at first.
[00:56:15]  And I'll just say one quick thing.
[00:56:17]  They say they don't believe in absolute truth.
[00:56:20]  Ask them if they believe that absolutely.
[00:56:24]  Next question.
[00:56:26]  Thank you, Professor Bron, for being here.
[00:56:28]  I really enjoyed the talk, and I'll definitely be getting your book tonight.

=== Exposing the College Scam (03:13) ===

[00:56:33]  Charlie, my question is actually about the college scam.
[00:56:37]  So I read this book a couple years ago.
[00:56:39]  I've given it, you know, as gifts to friends, and it helped us.
[00:56:42]  Our son actually will be attending Arizona Christian University in the fall.
[00:56:48]  So thank you.
[00:56:49]  We used it as a guide.
[00:56:51]  But what I have noticed, and I have a few in my circle that are turned off by the title.
[00:56:57]  So could you just give me your 30-second commercial of without the title?
[00:57:03]  But like why someone should read this book?
[00:57:05]  It's amazing.
[00:57:07]  I understand people can be turned off the title.
[00:57:09]  I mean, because they're protective of college, you know, they're protective of college more than anything else, more than the church.
[00:57:15]  It's a holy institution because, you know, a lot of parents don't want to see their kids become plumbers.
[00:57:23]  But we love plumbers, right?
[00:57:25]  I'm just speaking truth.
[00:57:25]  You know that.
[00:57:26]  Parents be like, how dare you call college a scam?
[00:57:28]  My kid's not going to become a welder.
[00:57:32]  Right?
[00:57:32]  And so, but I will stand by.
[00:57:34]  So we thought about what can we call the, you know, should we say that college is a bad idea?
[00:57:38]  Should we say that college is overrated?
[00:57:40]  You get it.
[00:57:40]  So I stand by the title.
[00:57:41]  But yes, here's my shtick.
[00:57:44]  41% of kids that enter college will not graduate.
[00:57:47]  They just won't graduate.
[00:57:49]  Of those that do graduate, only half will end up getting a job that requires a college degree.
[00:57:54]  So the whole four years are for nothing.
[00:57:57]  Outside of that, you have to navigate all the rubbish that they have to learn unless they go to ACU, all the nonsense, all the polluted worldviews, turning them into nihilistic activists.
[00:58:07]  And even beyond that, let's ask the question, are we developing kids of good character and of wisdom?
[00:58:13]  Are we just creating a bunch of highly credentialed, entitled 22-year-olds to go around and act as if the whole world is theirs because they have a piece of paper after they got a degree in North African lesbian poetry?
[00:58:30]  I think we know the answer to that.
[00:58:32]  There are 11 million job openings that pay over $75,000 a year in this country that do not require a college degree and require six to eight weeks of technical training.
[00:58:44]  Let me say that again.
[00:58:46]  This is according to the Department of Labor, the Bureau of Label Statistics, and three independent studies.
[00:58:52]  There are 11 million job openings that pay more than $75,000 a year that do not require a college degree, That takes six to eight weeks of technical job training.
[00:59:04]  Why are there so many job openings?
[00:59:06]  Because I'll end how I started.
[00:59:07]  Because upper middle class parents in the country look down on the working class.
[00:59:12]  And they want their kids to be in the laptop Zoom class, not in the muscular class.
[00:59:18]  They say, God forbid that my kid will have to shower before work and after work.
[00:59:23]  He's going to go stay crunched in the corner at a data center in Tempe.
[00:59:28]  making sure he doesn't mispronoun his colleagues earning $68,000 a year with a degree in computer science with $60,000 of debt from ASU because college is wonderful.
[00:59:39]  At what point are we going to wake up and realize this is a racketeering operation that is impoverishing a generation?

=== Blessing Jewish Friends for Jesus (02:32) ===

[00:59:47]  So anyway, I love the question, Denise.
[00:59:49]  Thank you for promoting the book.
[00:59:50]  You're the best, and Anderson's going to do great at ACU.
[00:59:53]  God bless you, man.
[00:59:54]  Yes.
[00:59:55]  Hi, my name's Denine.
[00:59:57]  My question is for those of us that have our Jewish friends, I brought a Jewish friend last time.
[01:00:04]  It worked out beautifully by the grace of God with all the Jewish writing and Dr. Grossman.
[01:00:10]  And now the conversation that I've been praying for for years has opened up to offer her more information about Christ.
[01:00:18]  One of the things she said to me that blew me away was, I haven't been told anything negative about Jesus.
[01:00:23]  I haven't been told anything at all.
[01:00:25]  And I about fell over because I made the assumption all these years that they were just against him.
[01:00:33]  So I'm happy to respond.
[01:00:35]  So how serious is she in her Judaism?
[01:00:38]  For the Jewish people that I'm the woman.
[01:00:41]  Yes, she's very serious.
[01:00:43]  Great.
[01:00:43]  So there is a forbidden passage in Israel that could get you basically arrested if you talk about it.
[01:00:50]  And it's the one you should definitely talk to her about.
[01:00:52]  It's Isaiah 53.
[01:00:55]  Isaiah 53 is the thermonuclear weapon of the Old Testament of prophecy.
[01:01:00]  And it by to the letter, prophecies prophesies the entire life of Jesus in the Old Testament scriptures.
[01:01:08]  At a root of dry ground, he was pierced for our transgressions.
[01:01:11]  I'm paraphrasing part of it.
[01:01:12]  And it is without a doubt the most powerful and successful and most censored Old Testament verse in serious Jewish circles.
[01:01:21]  Now, you thought that some Jews don't like Jesus because in the Talmud, there are some very, very nasty teachings about Jesus, right?
[01:01:29]  That he's in hell with a bunch of feces, right?
[01:01:32]  And not every Jew believes that, but it is in the Talmud, which in some circles would be considered to be the Jewish New Testament.
[01:01:38]  But here's the cool thing, is that a Jewish woman, as you say, who's ready to open her heart to Jesus is one of the most important things because Paul said we must bless the Jews, right?
[01:01:49]  To bring a Jew to Jesus, I think, is one of the most incredible things that anybody can do.
[01:01:53]  And I've witnessed it myself.
[01:01:55]  It's remarkable.
[01:01:56]  And you have to understand she's searching for the Messiah.
[01:01:59]  She has an empty chair at the Passover Seder waiting for that Messiah.
[01:02:05]  You just have to remind her the Messiah has come and is living and rose from the dead.
[01:02:11]  And his name is Yeshua, Jesus Christ.
[01:02:13]  So we'll be praying for you and praying for your friend.

=== Restoring America's Future (07:39) ===

[01:02:19]  All right, we have time for one or two more.
[01:02:21]  We'll go to our very impressive young man here.
[01:02:24]  Hello, I'm a big fan of you.
[01:02:28]  So we just had a podcast about inflation, and since it's rising a lot, I'm wondering if I can still have a good life like my mom and dad.
[01:02:39]  I love that.
[01:02:40]  How old are you, and what's your name?
[01:02:42]  I'm Max, and I'm 10 years old.
[01:02:44]  How impressive is that?
[01:02:45]  Getting up in front of all these people.
[01:02:47]  It's great.
[01:02:50]  The answer is, yes, you can have a great life, but you also, your future is being stolen from you.
[01:02:56]  You have never voted.
[01:02:57]  You're 10 years old, and you have leaders that hate you that are using your credit card without your consent to impoverish you and destroy your dollar, your purchasing power, and your future.
[01:03:07]  But despite that, though, you and me, because we're going to be in this for a while, I'm 20 years older than you.
[01:03:12]  We're not going to use that as a reason to be negative or to overly point fingers.
[01:03:18]  We're going to overcome all of it and we're going to build a better future.
[01:03:21]  And I believe that's going to start in November, to be honest with you.
[01:03:24]  We're going to.
[01:03:25]  And so, great question, my friend.
[01:03:29]  Final question?
[01:03:30]  Yes.
[01:03:31]  Is that your brother?
[01:03:33]  Yeah, that's my brother.
[01:03:34]  That's awesome.
[01:03:36]  Now, what's your name, and how old are you?
[01:03:38]  I'm Will and I'm 12.
[01:03:40]  Awesome.
[01:03:40]  Terrific.
[01:03:41]  What's on your mind?
[01:03:43]  So, me and my brother are part of Gen Alpha.
[01:03:46]  And we have a podcast about conservative values.
[01:03:51]  And we think that the government is stealing our future from us.
[01:03:57]  So I'm wondering, what advice do you have for Gen Alpha?
[01:04:01]  First of all, what's the name of your podcast?
[01:04:03]  I'd love to subscribe.
[01:04:04]  It's Programming Lions.
[01:04:06]  Programming Lions.
[01:04:07]  Yeah, it's me, my brother, and my dad.
[01:04:09]  We should all subscribe to that.
[01:04:11]  What do you guys think?
[01:04:11]  We should make it.
[01:04:17]  Your question was, you believe your future is being stolen.
[01:04:20]  Yeah.
[01:04:20]  And then what can we do about it, essentially?
[01:04:22]  Yeah, what's your advice for Gen Alpha?
[01:04:24]  Well, first of all, to you, and I mean this non-sarcastically.
[01:04:28]  So at Turning Point Action, we're going to be knocking on hundreds of thousands of doors here in Arizona because we want to see Arizona become red, obviously.
[01:04:36]  And I deal with people all the time that are apathetic, and they're like, what's the point?
[01:04:39]  I'd love to have them talk to a 12-year-old that cares more about the country than a 65-year-old.
[01:04:44]  Is that right?
[01:04:44]  I mean, I think that every person that says it doesn't matter, I'm not going to vote, you know, the election is stolen as if, okay, you're a real tough guy for not voting because the election's stolen.
[01:04:55]  Like, go look a Generation Alpha kid in the eyes and tell him that.
[01:04:59]  Tell him that his life doesn't matter and that his advocacy is irrelevant.
[01:05:03]  And so what you can do is that I think you are both super articulate.
[01:05:07]  You need to go talk to as many people that can vote as possible and remind them you're actually the reason why they should vote is to believe a free society in a strong country for you.
[01:05:20]  And I'll close with this and then I want Mr. Barna to close this out here with some thoughts, which is that far too often we realize the stakes of the game are higher than they should be.
[01:05:36]  Have you ever seen a chance where a 10 or 12 year old feels convicted to create a podcast?
[01:05:41]  Why do you think that is?
[01:05:42]  Because at some fundamental level, they realize that things are falling apart and collapsing, that at 10 or 12 years old, they're effectively taking up arms in this culture war to fight for their country.
[01:05:52]  That should motivate you, but also it should disturb you.
[01:05:55]  Like, no offense, you guys shouldn't be that interested.
[01:05:58]  Like, this country should be a lot more organized than it should, that you could be worried about like regular 10 or 12-year-old things.
[01:06:04]  But you know, it's not because you two have more responsibility than most of your elders do.
[01:06:09]  And I hate to say that.
[01:06:10]  It's just the way it is.
[01:06:12]  And honestly, it gives me hope.
[01:06:13]  I've said this for a while.
[01:06:14]  Gen Z, Gen Alpha, the young people who deal at Turning Point USA, we're going to have to fix a lot of the mess that has been left us.
[01:06:21]  And we're going to do that.
[01:06:22]  And both of you guys give me great hope.
[01:06:25]  God bless you guys.
[01:06:25]  Thank you.
[01:06:26]  Final thoughts.
[01:06:32]  Yeah, you know, Charlie's asking me to give you a final thought.
[01:06:34]  Let me just say this.
[01:06:37]  Christianity was never meant to be a religion.
[01:06:40]  Okay, it's supposed to be a movement.
[01:06:43]  A movement of people who love Jesus and are willing to follow him in everything they do, no matter where he takes us.
[01:06:52]  I'm a sociologist.
[01:06:54]  One of the things I do is I study movements.
[01:06:56]  And I can tell you that there are movements that have radically changed today's America that have had 1% of the population behind their ideology.
[01:07:07]  Take the gay movement.
[01:07:09]  Okay, 1% of the population has now completely twisted the minds of the rest of the population because they had a vision, they had passion, they had commitment, and they never gave up.
[01:07:26]  The Christian church in America gave up long ago.
[01:07:30]  And so we've got to restore that sense of calling that God has given to us, that understanding of who Jesus is and what a magnificent privilege it is that we have to know him, to love him, and to serve him.
[01:07:47]  We can't just sit back and watch other people steal that away from us.
[01:07:53]  We can't allow them to tell us, no, we can't have God in this country.
[01:07:58]  It's his country.
[01:08:00]  And so we have the privilege of serving him.
[01:08:03]  I'm praying that everybody who's here tonight is going to go back and think about what priority is it in your life to be part of a movement of people who pledge to restore America to the heart of God.
[01:08:20]  That's what the church, capital C, is meant to be.
[01:08:24]  Don't get all wound up in church small C.
[01:08:28]  Okay, nothing wrong with it.
[01:08:29]  It's fine.
[01:08:30]  But church capital C is what it's about.
[01:08:33]  That's about the community of believers who share that common love for and service of God.
[01:08:41]  You need to be part of that.
[01:08:43]  But it can't just be lip service.
[01:08:46]  You've got to be willing to take some hits for it.
[01:08:49]  Jesus promised that you will be persecuted when you do his work.
[01:08:54]  If you're not being persecuted, maybe you're not doing his work.
[01:08:58]  Okay?
[01:08:59]  So, you know, don't be afraid of that because he'll also protect us.
[01:09:04]  He'll strengthen us through that.
[01:09:06]  And you know what?
[01:09:08]  If you die serving God, praise the Lord, what a way to go.
[01:09:12]  Okay, there's a lot worse things you could hope for.
[01:09:16]  So if we're going to restore America, the only way America gets restored is not by Republicans.
[01:09:24]  It's not by any of these other groups that we could name.
[01:09:27]  It's by those who know, love, and serve Jesus Christ, putting it all on the line for him.
[01:09:34]  God bless America.
[01:09:36]  Thank you.
[01:09:37]  One more time for George Barna.
[01:09:39]  Thank you.
[01:09:40]  And we will see you on June 5th, which is the 12-year birthday of Turning Point USA.
[01:09:44]  So we'll see you on June 5th, everybody.
[01:09:46]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[01:09:47]  Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[01:09:50]  Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
[01:09:55]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.