The Charlie Kirk Show - American Elites' War on White People
Aired: 2024-04-17
Duration: 43:08


=== War on White People (01:49) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk show, there is a war on white people, a provocative conversation with Jeremy Carl, The Unprotected Class, How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart by Jeremy Carl.
[00:00:11]  Check out his book today.
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[00:00:35]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:00:36]  Here we go.
[00:00:37]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:39]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
[00:00:41]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:00:45]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:00:48]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:00:49]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:00:50]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:00:57]  Turning point USA.
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[00:01:36]  Jeremy Carl, who's become a really good friend and he's terrific, new book out called The Unprotected Class: How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart.
[00:01:47]  Before we go into this conversation, everybody, you have to purchase this book.

=== Anti-White Racism Reality (10:14) ===

[00:01:50]  They're going to do their best to censor it, to smear it, to slander it.
[00:01:53]  Check it out.
[00:01:54]  The unprotected class.
[00:01:55]  Jeremy, welcome to the program.
[00:01:56]  Great.
[00:01:56]  Thanks so much.
[00:01:57]  It's wonderful to be on, Charlie.
[00:01:58]  Jeremy, you do some excellent research.
[00:02:00]  This is a significant accomplishment.
[00:02:03]  And this is really the topic you're not allowed to talk about.
[00:02:07]  I see, what, 50 pages of endnotes and footnotes?
[00:02:11]  Yeah, I think it's 70, actually, but it's huge.
[00:02:13]  I mean, I had, I think, a 970 or something citations, and that was because I knew they would come after me.
[00:02:19]  So I wanted to kind of have everything as buttoned up as I could.
[00:02:22]  So tell us about the book.
[00:02:24]  Well, so it's sort of looking at the rise of institutional anti-white racism in the United States.
[00:02:29]  And Charlie, you kind of touched on it.
[00:02:31]  This is a forbidden topic.
[00:02:33]  Verboten.
[00:02:34]  It is verboten, and you're only allowed to kind of talk about other types of racism.
[00:02:39]  And by the way, I'm not suggesting that there are not other types of racism that happen in the U.S., either past or currently.
[00:02:45]  But what I kind of argue in the book is that this is the fundamental type of racism that we are dealing with now.
[00:02:51]  It's the most important.
[00:02:52]  And I kind of document what that looks like in a variety of different areas, looking at everything from crime to the schools to immigration policy to kind of throughout.
[00:03:03]  And then I kind of tie it up all together in a bow and talk about what's motivating it and what we can do about it.
[00:03:09]  So to the moderate person looking at this, they say, anti-white racism, what is it?
[00:03:15]  So give us kind of four or five glaring examples, the institutional anti-white racism in our country.
[00:03:21]  Sure.
[00:03:21]  So, I mean, I think one example I talk about in the book, now a little bit addressed in theory by the Supreme Court, was around affirmative action, the Bakke case, and just this was the original case that was a California student or something.
[00:03:35]  Yes, a student who applied to UC Davis Medical School and is vastly, vastly more qualified than some other minority students, particularly African Americans, who were accepted.
[00:03:46]  He's rejected.
[00:03:47]  This goes to the Supreme Court.
[00:03:49]  Eventually, it's a really complicated case, and you have six different opinions out of the nine justices.
[00:03:54]  But basically, the long and short of it is affirmative action is upheld in that case.
[00:03:59]  And what happens is the kind of student who takes his place at UC, Davis, all these great stories are written about him.
[00:04:08]  And Ted Kennedy, the former senator, kind of does a big thing about how wonderful he is and says this guy is the epitome of why affirmative action is great.
[00:04:16]  And as I kind of relayed in the book, it turns out later, you know, he ends up killing some patients and kind of being losing his medical license for incompetence.
[00:04:25]  And it's quite a story.
[00:04:26]  And then he ends up dead by the side of the road eventually.
[00:04:29]  And there's some intimation, although I want to stress that we don't have any proof on this, that maybe there was a former patient involved or something like that.
[00:04:36]  But that's some of it.
[00:04:38]  On immigration policy, any sort of attempts by people to say, hey, you know, we might want to slow down the pace of demographic change, let alone if we mention something like the great replacement, then you're automatically Adolf Hitler too.
[00:04:53]  This is kind of seen as an illegitimate way to look at America.
[00:05:00]  That kind of bleeds into the fact that all these statues are being torn down, and we're not just talking about Confederate statues, we're talking about the statue of Thomas Jefferson being removed from the New York City City Council chambers after 187 years or things like that.
[00:05:15]  So you could just kind of go on and on.
[00:05:18]  I mean, again, I talk about different things.
[00:05:20]  In healthcare, you've got prioritization going on by race of treatments.
[00:05:25]  You've got white doctors being told you can't research in this area without a minority researcher working with you.
[00:05:33]  You've got discrimination against medical schools.
[00:05:35]  So again, it just goes on and on.
[00:05:37]  And that's really what the book is about: kind of documenting all of this in painstaking detail.
[00:05:42]  And I really didn't just write it for true believers.
[00:05:44]  I wrote it for people who, you know, you could give it to your mom if she's skeptical.
[00:05:48]  And I'm not trying to be the so-called edgelord here.
[00:05:52]  You know, I'm trying to write this for a mainstream audience and really make a good case.
[00:05:56]  So explain to me how a population that is a majority of the country can have so much racism pioneered again, like configured against them.
[00:06:08]  Yeah.
[00:06:08]  That doesn't really make a lot of sense.
[00:06:10]  It's a great question, Charlie.
[00:06:12]  And it's actually a little bit of that is what I made look at it a follow-up because I think it's we don't have a clear answer.
[00:06:20]  There's almost a psyop going on where people have sort of decided that this is okay.
[00:06:26]  But essentially, you've got a lot of minority political leadership that is unified around this idea.
[00:06:33]  They may want resources of various types for their communities or whatnot.
[00:06:37]  And then you've got this kind of bizarre left-leaning community of white liberals that, I mean, that just is kind of very anti-white.
[00:06:46]  And I think the question why is it's not really clear how we answer that.
[00:06:53]  Some of it is actual self-hatred, and you can actually see this really clearly in survey data.
[00:06:57]  I kind of showed that.
[00:06:58]  It's self-loathing.
[00:06:59]  Yeah.
[00:06:59]  I mean, you see that liberal whites uniquely among all kinds of demographics that you could look at, they have what's called an outgroup preference.
[00:07:09]  So liberal African Americans like African Americans a little bit more than other ethnicities.
[00:07:13]  Liberal Asian Americans, same thing.
[00:07:15]  Again, regardless of ideology, but liberal white people actually prefer non-whites and they think badly about whites.
[00:07:23]  Where does that come from?
[00:07:24]  That I don't, I don't know.
[00:07:26]  I don't have a clear answer.
[00:07:28]  And this is actually kind of, again, what I want to explore in a kind of follow-up book.
[00:07:33]  But there is a part that I do think we can say more clearly, which is there's another element of this beyond self-hatred that's about status.
[00:07:41]  Because if you've got $100 million, okay, it's very easy for me to say, yeah, hey, I don't care about like we should give a leg up to these other people or white people are privileged because guess what?
[00:07:53]  It doesn't really cost you anything or at least anything that you can't afford.
[00:07:57]  So in any way, these sort of conspicuous displays in this case are actually a way of saying, I'm really powerful, I'm really influential.
[00:08:05]  So that part of it, I think we can understand a little bit more.
[00:08:08]  So the self-loathing is always fascinating to me.
[00:08:12]  And so what do older Americans in their 60s or 70s not understand about the racial caste system?
[00:08:19]  That people in their, so if I talk to a 18-year-old, they say, of course, there's a war on white people.
[00:08:24]  Yeah.
[00:08:25]  But if I talk to a 65-year-old, they say, Charlie, you're being racist.
[00:08:28]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:28]  This is a fascinating thing, right?
[00:08:30]  And I think part of it has been, and again, I talk about this a lot in the book, the huge demographic transition that we've had since those senior citizens are kids.
[00:08:42]  And so, I mean, they're thinking about their own experience growing up where they grew up in an overwhelmingly white society.
[00:08:48]  And depending on how old they are, I mean, pretty clearly a time when white people would have been benefiting more, or at least certainly not discriminated against.
[00:08:56]  And so they kind of look at this.
[00:08:58]  And even still, they are predominantly in white communities in many cases.
[00:09:04]  So they're not seeing this.
[00:09:05]  Meanwhile, if you are the age of my kids, you know, my oldest kid is 17, or some of the folks that you're dealing with, this is a reality of their everyday life.
[00:09:14]  Every day they're told they're evil because of the color of their skin.
[00:09:16]  Yeah, no, absolutely.
[00:09:17]  And so it's not shocking to them.
[00:09:20]  And that's kind of the encouraging thing.
[00:09:21]  I mean, it's discouraging for the country, but it's encouraging in terms of when I talk about the book, because when I talk to younger people, they say, oh, yeah, I just, and I just got done doing my first few public talks about this book.
[00:09:33]  They're like, oh, yeah, of course.
[00:09:34]  So I don't have to explain it to them.
[00:09:35]  No, no, they live it every single day.
[00:09:37]  But the skeptics are the people that are in, you know, late 60s, early 70s.
[00:09:43]  They say, yeah, they're not a war on white people.
[00:09:46]  You know, affirmative action might be okay.
[00:09:48]  Right.
[00:09:49]  You know, but there also is this embedded, like, we're still the country in the 1960s, maybe?
[00:09:55]  Right.
[00:09:56]  And again, I write about this, that there's also this, and this is actually, here is the most challenging thing for this book, is that everybody, and I think particularly white people who were responsible with all the good and bad of largely building this country over time, it's just a demographic fact of who was here.
[00:10:15]  It's painful to admit a change in status or to complain about it is sort of seen as, oh, you know, I'm whining to the refs.
[00:10:24]  I'm saying I'm low.
[00:10:26]  And I'd say two things.
[00:10:27]  First of all, I'm not writing this to whine to the refs because the refs don't like us, okay?
[00:10:31]  I'm doing this to rally the troops.
[00:10:33]  And I'm not doing it in terms of, oh, white people should be getting special favors.
[00:10:37]  I'm demanding equal treatment.
[00:10:38]  Well, yeah, and when I'm on campus, you know who's repulsed by this also is Hispanics.
[00:10:42]  No one likes the anti-white racism that's bubbling up.
[00:10:45]  If you have a conscience, I mean, if you don't.
[00:10:47]  And in fact, I want to dive deeper into some of the biggest critics of your book are going to be white people.
[00:10:53]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:10:54]  And that's so bizarre.
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[00:11:59]  The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.

=== Legal Clarity Wins (04:04) ===

[00:12:04]  So if you read civil rights laws, they typically say that all forms of racial discrimination are illegal.
[00:12:09]  That would include anti-white racism.
[00:12:11]  Yet everyone knows that racism against whites happens in hiring, promotion, social admissions, and is so routine and blatant.
[00:12:17]  Why is that?
[00:12:17]  And if this is happening, why are we not able to stop it?
[00:12:20]  Yeah, well, I mean, part of it is really a psyop, Charlie.
[00:12:23]  And I think what we've seen.
[00:12:24]  What do you mean by that?
[00:12:25]  For someone that doesn't know what that is.
[00:12:27]  There's an element of what we'd almost call like Stockholm syndrome, if you're familiar with that, the kind of idea of...
[00:12:31]  You fall in love with your captors.
[00:12:33]  Yeah, you fall in love with your captors.
[00:12:34]  And I think that's happened here.
[00:12:37]  And I think what's interesting, for anybody who doubts that this is really going on, I think the most effective group that has come out of the Trump White House is, at least to my mind, America First Legal, which is Stephen Miller's group.
[00:12:52]  He's great.
[00:12:53]  And I think it's just done outstanding work.
[00:12:54]  And really, the primary element of what they've been doing since they got out is just taking stuff that is blatantly illegal, discriminatory stuff against whites and hiring, promotions, and they're just suing on it.
[00:13:08]  And nobody had really been doing this.
[00:13:09]  I mean, they've done it idiosyncratically, but not at scale.
[00:13:12]  And what they're finding is they're winning a lot of this, and they're going to win even more of it because the law is actually clear.
[00:13:19]  But people were kind of so sort of intimidated, they weren't even challenging the law.
[00:13:24]  They just sort of accepted that's how things were.
[00:13:27]  Do you think, so have we seen evidence that the courts will rule in our favor with anti-white racism?
[00:13:32]  Yeah, I mean, I think we have.
[00:13:33]  And I mean, some of this is just, it's kind of open and shut.
[00:13:36]  And in fact, what you're seeing in many cases is with, especially with things like scholarships and things like that, they're just folding.
[00:13:43]  They're not even going to court because we sue them and they're like, oh, yeah, actually, you know, we're going to lose this case.
[00:13:49]  And they just stop the illegal behavior.
[00:13:52]  They stop the...
[00:13:53]  We should sue for damages.
[00:13:54]  We should make the pain significant.
[00:13:56]  Well, that's what we need to do.
[00:13:57]  And I'll tell you, one of the good examples of this that I talk about in the book is you may remember a few years back, there was kind of an infamous incident about Starbucks around where some young African Americans had been asked to leave a store, and this turned into a big firestorm of controversy.
[00:14:17]  And it was, you know, it was really, in my view, appropriate.
[00:14:20]  But of course, the Starbucks people wailed.
[00:14:22]  Well, it turns out they were making a commotion or noise or something.
[00:14:25]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:26]  They wailed and they gnashed their teeth and they shut down for racial training.
[00:14:29]  And ultimately, they fired the white regional manager.
[00:14:33]  But you know who they didn't fire was the African-American manager of that Starbucks store, who in my view, again, had acted totally appropriately.
[00:14:41]  So they're eventually the regional manager who's white, who had nothing to do with this directly in any way.
[00:14:48]  She sues for discrimination and she wins a $25 million verdict.
[00:14:51]  So I think that if we push on this, if we make it systemic and we need to make it 100 times what we're doing right now, I think we can win.
[00:15:00]  But according to either civil rights law and or federal hiring practices, if you fire a white person, it's not a protected class.
[00:15:10]  Well, no.
[00:15:11]  So, I mean, that's been the actual practice, yes.
[00:15:14]  In theory, white people are protected under these laws.
[00:15:17]  That's the great irony of it, right?
[00:15:19]  You really think so.
[00:15:19]  You think that if a white person put a claim against us at Turning Point, that the federal government would hear their claim?
[00:15:27]  Well, that's the trick, right?
[00:15:28]  Because especially, as I point out, the civil rights division of the Justice Department, under a Republican administration, it's liberal, and under a Democratic administration, it's far left, right?
[00:15:39]  So I think the Biden administration, the Justice Department would absolutely not, they'd find a way to deny the claim no matter what the law said.
[00:15:46]  And that's one of the reasons why the left has concentrated so much on controlling the administrative state, so much on controlling the judiciary.
[00:15:54]  Yeah, like the EEOC, which is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
[00:16:00]  If you're black or if you're Hispanic and you file one of these claims, they get accelerated.
[00:16:06]  They get taken very seriously.

=== Controlling the State (13:37) ===

[00:16:08]  Right.
[00:16:08]  And however, if you're white, they just laugh.
[00:16:10]  They're like, you got fired because you're white?
[00:16:13]  Like, tough life, man.
[00:16:15]  Yeah.
[00:16:15]  No, and it's, and I think one of the things that's interesting is we're kind of moving into this post-white America, as I call it.
[00:16:21]  I mean, just demographically, that's the reality.
[00:16:23]  And I think it's just, it's ultimately not sustainable, the current system we're on.
[00:16:27]  I mean, when whites are not even the majority anymore, like, why would we allow ourselves to be treated in a lesser way than some other group, right?
[00:16:36]  Like, these sorts of things could vaguely work when whites were a supermajority, but now they're just totally unviable, in my view.
[00:16:41]  Yeah, and then I want to talk about whites versus whiteness and where this idea of whiteness comes from.
[00:16:46]  Yeah.
[00:16:47]  You know, people remember the Smithsonian Museum, the African American Heritage Museum, History Museum, during Floyd Apalooza that came out and they said that speaking properly, using grammar, math, these are all attributes of whiteness, right?
[00:17:02]  You know, being on time.
[00:17:03]  And basically what they're saying is that Western civilization is whiteness.
[00:17:06]  Right.
[00:17:07]  And I guess my question is: are they right?
[00:17:09]  Right.
[00:17:11]  It's a profound question.
[00:17:12]  I mean, I think historically, I mean, first of all, the whole category of white is a little questionable.
[00:17:18]  It's a little catch-all, right?
[00:17:19]  Right.
[00:17:20]  I mean, because even though in 1790 when we had a naturalization law and it referred to white people, it was really clear who that meant.
[00:17:28]  But the reality is you had British and you had Germans and you had Irish.
[00:17:31]  And the idea of white comes from Caucasian, which is actually the Caucasus.
[00:17:37]  Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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[00:18:40]  I have so many thoughts here, but let's dive into white versus whiteness.
[00:18:44]  What does this mean?
[00:18:45]  Sure.
[00:18:45]  Well, one of them is kind of almost a cultural category, whiteness.
[00:18:49]  And then white is more of an ethnic category, which is, again, a catch-all for a lot of people that would have been seen as similar in some contexts, but very different in others in American history.
[00:18:59]  But as you pointed out, whiteness is kind of used as an overall category to often just talk about things that a lot of us would just consider pro-social.
[00:19:11]  And of course, shouldn't be limited to any one race at all.
[00:19:14]  And in fact, aren't.
[00:19:15]  Yeah, that should be colorblinds.
[00:19:17]  Yeah.
[00:19:17]  But in fact.
[00:19:19]  I'll read off the list, but keep going.
[00:19:21]  Yeah, to stigmatize those things is seen as stigmatizing whiteness.
[00:19:26]  And it's not a coincidence, as I write about in the book, that when we begin to get our first kind of looks at white privilege, that term, it actually doesn't occur at a time, you know, 100 years ago when there would have been white privilege in the United States.
[00:19:41]  It happens in the 1980s with an academic at Wesleyan who uses that term.
[00:19:45]  This is right around the time that anything resembling white privilege is dying.
[00:19:49]  It's just sort of like if you're living under Kim Jong-un, you're not going to talk about Kim Jong-un's power.
[00:19:54]  It's only if you're safely away, then you can criticize Kim Jong-un.
[00:19:59]  The taxpayer-funded National Museum of African American History said that family structure, having a family is white culture.
[00:20:07]  Nuclear family, father, mother, two or three children is the ideal social unit.
[00:20:12]  This is the black history museum.
[00:20:14]  Wife is a homemaker.
[00:20:17]  That is whiteness.
[00:20:18]  Children should have their own rooms.
[00:20:19]  That is whiteness.
[00:20:21]  It is white.
[00:20:22]  Emphasis on scientific method.
[00:20:24]  So objective, rational, linear thinking, cause and effect.
[00:20:28]  Quantitative emphasis.
[00:20:30]  History based on Northern European immigrants' experience in the United States.
[00:20:36]  Protestant work ethic.
[00:20:38]  Status, power, and authority, meaning that you have to respect authority.
[00:20:43]  That is a white symptom.
[00:20:44]  Following time is being white.
[00:20:48]  Justice, protecting property and entitlements is white.
[00:20:54]  Competition, meaning if you believe in competing, you're white.
[00:20:58]  Communication, meaning written tradition, being polite.
[00:21:03]  These are all white culture.
[00:21:06]  If that's white culture, it actually sounds pretty.
[00:21:08]  Yeah, I'm about to say, I mean, I wrote this book.
[00:21:09]  I didn't realize.
[00:21:11]  I actually kind of want to deracialize the conversation.
[00:21:13]  Reading that list, I can't help but wonder: do they use like hyper-tribal tactics as a means to destroy Western civilization?
[00:21:21]  Meaning they do hate white people, but they've come to hate white people because they actually hate what white people might represent, or at least some would, which is the remnant of the West.
[00:21:31]  I think that's right.
[00:21:32]  And in many ways, this erasure of history that I write about is because they need to create something that they feel like they own as opposed to something that, in my view, they should participate in, which is great, and we want them to participate in, but that they would perceive as white zoning.
[00:21:49]  And just to kind of pick up, I mean, I could have done a number of things from that list you just read out, but just to sort of show the absurdity of some of these claims, you hear a lot about kind of the breakdown of African-American family structure as a legacy of slavery.
[00:22:02]  Well, if you go back 80 years, 85% of African-American parents were married.
[00:22:08]  That's okay.
[00:22:09]  Much, much, much closer to the time of parents.
[00:22:11]  Much higher percentage of white parents than are white parents being married today.
[00:22:15]  So what we've actually had is a full-scale cultural collapse that is really a product of leftism in very many instantiations that is being blamed on whiteness.
[00:22:25]  It's just nuts.
[00:22:26]  Yeah.
[00:22:27]  And when, so on campus in particular, that is like the origination point.
[00:22:32]  So white privilege, you said, started in the 80s, this idea of white privilege.
[00:22:36]  Jeremy, how do you then respond to people that would say, but whites have more money, whites get arrested less, or so on and so forth?
[00:22:46]  The disparate income disparities.
[00:22:48]  I deal with this on a daily basis.
[00:22:51]  And an activist on campus or a professor would say, how dare you say there's anti-white racism?
[00:22:57]  Whites have it great.
[00:22:59]  Yeah.
[00:22:59]  Well, again, I mean, there's, of course, a million different examples you can give throughout histories and cultures of groups that are discriminated against that have strong cultural ties or whatever else and are still doing very well.
[00:23:12]  It doesn't mean the discrimination doesn't exist.
[00:23:16]  I mean, the fact that Jews have been phenomenally successful in the United States doesn't mean that we've never had anti-Semitism, right?
[00:23:21]  So that's true.
[00:23:23]  That's like one trivial way of doing it.
[00:23:25]  The other way that often these arguments work, and again, I write about this, is it often erases Asian Americans because Asian Americans are the inconvenient minority.
[00:23:34]  Because pretty much any one of those metrics, Charlie, that you just read out, Asian Americans would be higher than white people.
[00:23:40]  But they say it's the model minority.
[00:23:42]  Right.
[00:23:42]  And I laugh.
[00:23:43]  I say, of course it is.
[00:23:45]  I mean a group that stays loyally married, doesn't commit crimes, cares a lot about schooling, and invests in their culture, saves money.
[00:23:53]  That is a model.
[00:23:54]  That's a model group for all people.
[00:23:56]  Right, right.
[00:23:57]  And that's really the answer.
[00:23:58]  And it's sort of like, and even among groups, right?
[00:24:00]  Like I talk about the Igbo or Igbo, which is a subset of a lot of Nigerian Americans.
[00:24:07]  If you were to look at them, higher educational attainment than the average white American, higher income, et cetera, et cetera, down all the sort of list of good things that you'd want.
[00:24:17]  So if we've got sort of systemic racism against African Americans, why did it just skip over them, right?
[00:24:23]  I mean, it's just, you know, these things don't stand up to kind of empirical scrutiny.
[00:24:28]  Yes, that's right.
[00:24:29]  And I mean, for example, there's plenty of Haitians in Florida that are doing fine.
[00:24:34]  Yeah.
[00:24:34]  And it's not a racial thing.
[00:24:37]  However, there's something that happened in the 50s or 60s with the collapse of the black family.
[00:24:42]  Right.
[00:24:42]  Where now today, and when I say this to activists on campus, they've never heard this, the left-wingers.
[00:24:47]  I say, what do you think?
[00:24:48]  How many blacks are being raised by a two-parent household?
[00:24:51]  They say, why does that even, first they say, why does it even matter?
[00:24:53]  Yeah.
[00:24:54]  Secondly, they'll say, I don't know, 60%.
[00:24:56]  I say, try 25%, and it's probably lower than that.
[00:25:00]  It's probably lower than that.
[00:25:01]  So 75% of kids, black kids in America, are raised without a father around.
[00:25:06]  75%.
[00:25:08]  So let's get back into the anti-white racism.
[00:25:14]  How do we then best fight back and withstand the criticism where they're going to say this is just a white lash or this is just you being a white nationalist?
[00:25:23]  Right.
[00:25:24]  Well, I mean, the simple answer to the white nationalist question is I'm just, I'm not.
[00:25:28]  You know, I'd tell them if I were, right?
[00:25:30]  But I'm just not.
[00:25:32]  So that's really easy.
[00:25:33]  I mean, there should be a backlash against the fact that they're being racist because that's good.
[00:25:38]  I mean, you shouldn't be able to be racist without accountability.
[00:25:43]  So I don't have any problem with that.
[00:25:45]  But I think there's lots of different tactics, whether it's lawfare, whether it's and kind of a creation, I think, over time of kind of getting, we need to really re-look at how we've enforced civil rights laws.
[00:25:59]  And again, I'm not saying that because I think we need to re-litigate the wisdom of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
[00:26:05]  It was put in at a particular time to solve I've criticized it.
[00:26:10]  Yeah, but it's Caldwell's thing.
[00:26:12]  Yeah, I mean, yeah, and Chris Caldwell is a colleague of mine, and I think it's, you know, it's fine to do that.
[00:26:18]  But I think just as a political strategy, I think if people want to say, hey, there were absolutely real problems that it was addressing, whether you think it did it in the perfect way or not.
[00:26:29]  But we're as far from that time right now as they were from the Wright brothers.
[00:26:34]  So there's a lot of things that have changed in American society.
[00:26:36]  We're not worried about people not being served at lunch counters anymore.
[00:26:39]  Yeah, and the Civil Rights Act, though, let's be clear, created a beast, and that beast has now turned into an anti-white weapon.
[00:26:46]  Yeah, and that's the reality.
[00:26:48]  And so we just need to fundamentally re-look at a lot of our civil rights legal regime.
[00:26:53]  And without that, even though I don't think it's sort of the magic bullet, but I think without that, there's limits to the amount of progress we're going to make.
[00:27:00]  Let's talk about discourse and dialogue.
[00:27:04]  This topic would have been even more forbidden four or five years ago, but it's now becoming in more and more mainstream circles.
[00:27:11]  Is that because the problem is becoming worse, or but our side is more courageous to confront it?
[00:27:16]  I think it's both, Charlie.
[00:27:17]  And I'm going to commend you in particular and Tucker and guys like Matt Walsh.
[00:27:23]  There's like three of us.
[00:27:24]  Yeah, it's really, you guys are the big three, but not the only ones, but definitely that have something to lose.
[00:27:31]  The big three who've really come out and talked about this.
[00:27:33]  So I think it's been a combination of things are getting worse, and that's actually put pressure.
[00:27:38]  And then that we've had a few folks like you who have been willing to speak forward.
[00:27:42]  And I'm really appreciative, or have people like me on the show to discuss it.
[00:27:46]  It's a no-brainer.
[00:27:47]  This is not controversial to me.
[00:27:48]  This is real.
[00:27:49]  I know it.
[00:27:50]  We live through it every single day.
[00:27:52]  Well, it helps because you're spending so much time with young people, Charlie.
[00:27:55]  So you see it.
[00:27:56]  You see it in a way that some of the older people are.
[00:27:58]  Well, and I want to also say, again, the liberal media is not going to cover all this, but if you have unapologetic, ferocious anti-white racism.
[00:28:08]  then young whites are going to find some very radical political positions.
[00:28:11]  Right.
[00:28:12]  And I don't want that, actually.
[00:28:13]  No, absolutely.
[00:28:14]  I mean, I didn't write this book to de-radicalize people, okay?
[00:28:17]  But I actually think that if people read it, they will understand.
[00:28:20]  If you're a white person and you're like, man, I'm just, I'm at the end of my rope and I don't know what I'm going to do.
[00:28:26]  But that's where a lot of the young white men that we speak to on campus, I sometimes have to kind of bring them back into like free society.
[00:28:35]  Like, let's calm down because they say everyone's against us.
[00:28:38]  We need to create our own identity politic group.
[00:28:40]  And I actually don't think that's a good idea.
[00:28:42]  I don't think more tribalism is the answer to tribalism.
[00:28:45]  But I see why they believe that.
[00:28:47]  I sympathize with it.
[00:28:49]  The media then says, how dare you sympathize with people that want to create their own identity group.
[00:28:54]  But can you speak to that, Jeremy?
[00:28:55]  It's like you can only push a group into a corner so much until they kind of say, I'm not going to take it anymore.
[00:29:01]  Yeah.
[00:29:02]  And I think that's what's happening.
[00:29:03]  And I think that's, you know, you're seeing this ferment and that's the left kind of loses its mind because they refuse to deal with the consequences of what they've created.
[00:29:11]  I do think that there's an element in the same way that Martin Luther King Jr., who we talked about before of the show, but he wasn't, you know, plus or minus, he wasn't kind of, he wasn't a black nationalist in the way that early Malcolm X was.
[00:29:25]  He was trying to organize black people, however, without apology.
[00:29:29]  I think in the same way, like, we've had a lot of airy appeals to equal rights, and it sort of hasn't gotten us anywhere.
[00:29:36]  We need to organize people, not in a way to kind of create racial identity politics, but to show that, like, these are the people being discriminated against, so they have to organize against it.

=== Left Loses Its Mind (03:15) ===

[00:29:46]  Actively.
[00:29:47]  And it is without a doubt the only group in the country that you're not allowed to say that you're even part of that group.
[00:29:55]  Right.
[00:29:56]  Let alone that you're being mistreated.
[00:29:58]  Right.
[00:29:59]  Why do you think that is?
[00:30:01]  Is it just that everyone's so afraid of being called a racist?
[00:30:03]  I actually think that simple explanation is the deep one.
[00:30:06]  Yeah, I think that's right.
[00:30:07]  That being called a racist is worse than being called a rapist in American society.
[00:30:11]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:30:12]  And you'll see even people who would be considered very, very far to the right, and they will disclaim, or they will feel like they've been slandered if that is used against them.
[00:30:23]  And you seem to get over it because ultimately, if you're being effective in this world right now, you're going to be called a racist by the left, but they don't even know what a woman is.
[00:30:30]  How would they know what a racist is?
[00:30:32]  That's right.
[00:30:33]  I get called racist every day.
[00:30:34]  And it's easy to say, why are you so terrified of being called a racist?
[00:30:37]  But there are huge consequences for being called a racist.
[00:30:40]  Of course.
[00:30:41]  Unless you have your own stuff and unless you're very unique and you're willing to punch through it and punch through it and punch through it and punch through it.
[00:30:48]  And then you come to the other side and you have intellectual purity and freedom.
[00:30:51]  But that's a small group of people right now because they might have employers and agreements and advertisers.
[00:30:57]  And we have advertisers.
[00:30:59]  But they're very supportive of the positions we take.
[00:31:02]  So I get it.
[00:31:02]  I get when people are, I don't want to say afraid, but cautious.
[00:31:09]  Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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[00:31:27]  Naturopathic Dr. Dennis Black has invested everything into bringing our dog's food to life.
[00:31:32]  He created rough greens, not dog food.
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[00:31:40]  You don't have to change your dog's food.
[00:31:41]  Just adding rough greens to their existing diet will be the best decision you ever made to improve their life.
[00:31:47]  Mr. Briggs has more energy, plays longer, and is overall the best version of himself.
[00:31:52]  Dr. Black is so confident that this will change your dog's life, he is providing a free jumpstart trial bag so your dog can try it.
[00:32:00]  You just cover the shipping.
[00:32:01]  Head to roughgreens.com/slash Kirk.
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[00:32:13]  I want to quote a friend of yours and a teacher of mine, Michael Anton.
[00:32:19]  It's not happening, and it's good that it is.
[00:32:22]  Probably one of the most powerful pieces I've seen on the American mind in the last couple of years.
[00:32:27]  Michael Anton writes this piece, that is how the left responds.
[00:32:30]  So, Jeremy, the country's becoming less white.
[00:32:33]  They say it's not happening, but it's good that it is.
[00:32:36]  What are the consequences of the great replacement?
[00:32:39]  Well, I think they're profound, and we're just beginning to see them.
[00:32:44]  I mean, again, it's sort of we've had a history in the U.S. starting from well before we were even a country of a kind of European-focused civilization, and we're now kind of moving into something that is going to be something different.
[00:33:00]  So, that is pretty profound.

=== Consequences of Replacement (10:05) ===

[00:33:02]  I think when whites also have a lot of resources that other people might like, that I argue that in the book, that that's one of the real motivators behind a lot of this politics: you need what's called, the sociologist C. Wright Mills called a legitimating ideology.
[00:33:17]  So, you can't just like take stuff from people.
[00:33:20]  You need to have a reason why it's good that you're taking it.
[00:33:23]  And so, I think.
[00:33:24]  Or at least a story.
[00:33:25]  Right.
[00:33:25]  And that's what this is: say, well, if white people are systemically racist and horrible and they've been oppressive for the entire X hundred years, then of course, you know, to make things equal, we have to take things from them.
[00:33:36]  So, I think some of that's going on.
[00:33:37]  So, it's a means to property confiscation.
[00:33:39]  Absolutely.
[00:33:40]  And it's a speculative argument, but it is.
[00:33:42]  No, it's 100% true.
[00:33:43]  Well, good, because that's what I say in the next to last chapter of the book.
[00:33:47]  But that's what they, at the core of, I hate to say Marxist because it sounds cliche, but it's true, of Marxist philosophy is the destruction of private property, the destruction of the family, and the destruction of any sort of belief in the transcendent or the divine.
[00:34:01]  Yeah.
[00:34:01]  And anti-white racism is a means for property confiscation, otherwise known as reparations.
[00:34:06]  Yeah.
[00:34:06]  And I talk a lot about reparations in the book.
[00:34:08]  Talk about it now.
[00:34:09]  Yeah.
[00:34:10]  So, I mean, you've got this, it's a sort of thing where a lot of things that the left does, and we laugh about it on the right.
[00:34:17]  And then, you know, I think of Gavin Newsom doing his illegal gay marriage ceremony, and everybody was like, this is insane, and he's going to pay this huge political price.
[00:34:27]  And then 11 years later, I'm going to...
[00:34:29]  Remind people about this.
[00:34:30]  He was the mayor of San Francisco.
[00:34:32]  Right.
[00:34:32]  He broke the law and still officiated and or convened homosexual, quote-unquote, marriage.
[00:34:38]  Correct.
[00:34:39]  And then everybody's like, this is insane.
[00:34:41]  And even in San Francisco, he may pay a political price or certainly would end his career in California.
[00:34:45]  11 years later, Supreme Court makes it the law of the land everywhere.
[00:34:49]  So in a similar way, Tanahisi Coates, who's a kind of prominent African-American intellectual, he writes about a decade ago a piece on how white people need to give reparations to African Americans, primarily for slavery.
[00:35:02]  And everybody kind of freaks out and says this is crazy.
[00:35:06]  And now what you have is even, you know, a decade later, you've got San Francisco and California and Boston and these other places.
[00:35:14]  By the way, invariably places where there was no slavery for any meaningful period of time, kind of beginning to really go down this reparations rabbit hole.
[00:35:25]  And I think if you don't think that this is going to be coming down the pike in a much bigger way, you're kidding me.
[00:35:30]  So the typical response I hear then from the audience is, but what does someone like Gavin Newsom think?
[00:35:37]  Won't he also be swept up in the reparations?
[00:35:41]  Can you explain that?
[00:35:42]  We only have a minute remaining on this radio, but help me explain to other people.
[00:35:47]  I see it clearly, which is all about power.
[00:35:49]  They think they'll be exempt.
[00:35:50]  They're in the oligarchy.
[00:35:51]  Is that the proper way of thinking about this?
[00:35:53]  I actually think it kind of is.
[00:35:55]  They do think they'll be exempt.
[00:35:56]  And in many ways, I think it's for my enemies, the law, for my friends, whatever they want.
[00:36:04]  Basically, there's a phrase.
[00:36:06]  And so I think the left, and you saw this with COVID, right?
[00:36:09]  Gavin Newsom was expert at getting out of his own COVID restrictions and going to fancy restaurants.
[00:36:14]  So I think they think they can get their way out of it.
[00:36:16]  They might be right, but you and I and everybody else, we're going to suffer from it.
[00:36:20]  Yes.
[00:36:20]  And the law need not apply.
[00:36:23]  The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.
[00:36:27]  This is going to be a very censored book, a very banned book.
[00:36:30]  Yeah.
[00:36:31]  And I'm sure the left is going to really come after it very aggressively, but I think this is really important.
[00:36:37]  This is a conversation we can't run away from.
[00:36:39]  People say, well, it's uncomfortable.
[00:36:40]  It's uncomfortable for me to even talk about it.
[00:36:42]  I didn't want to.
[00:36:43]  I went through a whole long list of time where I was sort of like Jonah, not listening to God and saying, you know, I'm going to run away.
[00:36:49]  Go to Nineveh.
[00:36:49]  I don't want to go to Nineveh, right?
[00:36:51]  I want to go to Spain and just have my vacation.
[00:36:54]  But we have to talk about it.
[00:36:55]  And we have to talk about this not just because of white people.
[00:36:58]  Every race has an interest in avoiding the kind of cliff that we are running toward and making sure that we don't fall off it as a society.
[00:37:05]  So, Jeremy, where does the anti-white thing come from as far as is it easy just to say it's Marxism, critical theory?
[00:37:12]  Can you just give us some of the philosophical roots, thinkers, authors that were the genesis of this?
[00:37:20]  Yeah, well, I think certainly critical theory is part of it.
[00:37:26]  I do sometimes get a little bit wary of these cultural Marxism explanations because I think it kind of folds in a very 20th century or even 19th century arguments about property and sort of attempts to sort of shoehorn it in this place on a 21st century debate where it doesn't totally fit.
[00:37:45]  But I think certainly those thinkers are a key component.
[00:37:50]  Folks like Ibram Kendi, Ibram X. Kendi really kind of Henry Rogers or, and I'm just blocking out her name, the woman who kind of wrote about white fragility.
[00:38:05]  Yeah, there's Robin DeAngelo.
[00:38:06]  Robin D'Angelo, thank you.
[00:38:07]  I can't believe I just forgot her name.
[00:38:09]  So you've got these folks, and it was interesting.
[00:38:11]  I mean, these are not marginal figures who like 15 intellectuals are reading.
[00:38:16]  In the wake of George Floyd, these were the number one best-selling books in all of categories in the country.
[00:38:22]  Yeah.
[00:38:22]  So, I mean, these are reaching huge audiences, and they have their roots in the academic left, but they've spread far beyond that.
[00:38:30]  So the call to action is both legally and culturally, we need to put a stop to this anti-white racism.
[00:38:36]  Right.
[00:38:36]  And you lay out a blueprint of actually how to stop it.
[00:38:39]  My personal opinion, though, is that this stops the minute that white people stop allowing themselves to be abused.
[00:38:46]  I agree.
[00:38:47]  And Charlie, I'm so glad you said that because that is the key thing.
[00:38:51]  I'm not whining to the refs here.
[00:38:52]  I'm not saying, oh, you know, please don't.
[00:38:54]  No, we, you know, the fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves, as they say in Julius Caesar, we have to stop allowing ourselves to be treated that way.
[00:39:07]  And if you're listening to this show, I just hope you say, hey, you know, I'm not going to put up with this.
[00:39:12]  It's not right.
[00:39:13]  And as soon as we decide that we're not going to put up with it, it will begin to go away.
[00:39:18]  If you change the attitude on anti-white racism and stop cowering.
[00:39:23]  Yeah.
[00:39:24]  And can we also just talk about there's a lot of poor white people in this country, too.
[00:39:27]  Sure.
[00:39:28]  There's a forgotten underclass of white people.
[00:39:30]  Right.
[00:39:30]  This idea that every white person is rich and successful and has a debt-free life and a perfect home with a picket fence, that's not supported in reality or data at all.
[00:39:40]  No, absolutely not.
[00:39:41]  And in fact, I talk in the book about so-called deaths of despair, and there's a Nobel Prize-winning economist named Angus Deaton, who's at Princeton, and his wife Ann Case, also an economist, who have written about this, how you've seen particularly an explosion among middle-aged white Americans.
[00:39:58]  who are kind of middle and working class, who are sort of seeing the collapse of a lot of these systems around them, who are feeling that as whites, they're kind of at the bottom of the status totem pole.
[00:40:07]  And we've seen a huge growth in suicides, in drug overdoses, particularly localized to these groups.
[00:40:14]  So that's where you've seen the growth.
[00:40:16]  And I think they're sort of giving up.
[00:40:18]  And I want to encourage these folks not to give up and that we can stand up for ourselves and things can get better.
[00:40:24]  The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.
[00:40:28]  Jeremy, anything we didn't discuss you want our audience to be aware of that, I mean, we covered a lot of ground.
[00:40:34]  Yeah, I mean, I think the centrality of immigration, we did touch on it, obviously, but I just, I think it is without kind of getting control of the border, which is obviously a huge issue right now, we can't begin to solve any of this.
[00:40:47]  Because if we do create, there's a fancy scholarly term called ethnogenesis, which means essentially you're creating a new ethnic group that may have a variety of different racial origins, but sort of sees itself as one people.
[00:41:00]  The necessary thing to do that is that you've got to get control of the border.
[00:41:06]  You've got to give us some breathing room and some time so that we can begin to reconstitute our culture and be a people.
[00:41:13]  Yeah, be one people again.
[00:41:14]  That's a different thing.
[00:41:15]  E pluribus unim.
[00:41:16]  They don't believe in e pluribus unim.
[00:41:18]  They don't believe in the American trinity of in God we trust, liberty or e pluribus unum.
[00:41:22]  Nope.
[00:41:23]  In fact, I think that anti-white racism goes after every single one of those things.
[00:41:29]  The important component that I hope people realize from this conversation, and Jeremy's really putting himself out there, is we must be unafraid to speak about these topics openly.
[00:41:38]  And if they call you racist, just laugh it off and keep on fighting.
[00:41:43]  You know who you are.
[00:41:45]  You know what you believe.
[00:41:47]  And they throw around the bigot label like a frisbee because they can't have substantive conversations about these things.
[00:41:54]  Absolutely, Charlie.
[00:41:55]  And if I can kind of make a plea for folks to purchase this book, if you know anything about the economics of books, I'm not going to get rich, sadly, from you.
[00:42:04]  You buy this book.
[00:42:05]  Unless this becomes white fragility.
[00:42:06]  Right.
[00:42:06]  Unless this becomes white fragility, then I'll get rich.
[00:42:08]  But what it does do is if this book sells enough copies, it tells publishers, oh, you know, there's an audience that wants to read about this stuff.
[00:42:17]  And it will encourage other people to write about it.
[00:42:19]  It will encourage publishers to publish about it.
[00:42:22]  So purchasing this book, reading about it, telling your friends it's a force multiplier, just like Charlie, you speaking out so courageously on this issue is.
[00:42:29]  If you have white grandkids, you have to educate yourself on this.
[00:42:32]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:42:34]  I mean, we are entering a sinister, I don't want to say, I don't want to even say Jim Crow, but the same sort of idea pathogens that created the evil policies that we learned about in the 50s or 60s, they're re-emerging.
[00:42:47]  In fact, many of them are already here.
[00:42:49]  Yeah, that's absolutely right.
[00:42:50]  The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.
[00:42:53]  Jeremy, thanks so much.
[00:42:54]  Thanks so much for having me on, Charlie.
[00:42:55]  God bless, man.
[00:42:56]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:42:57]  Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:42:59]  Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
[00:43:03]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.