The Charlie Kirk Show - Rise to the Occasion — Not To the Anger
Aired: 2024-04-02
Duration: 48:41


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[00:00:00]  Okay, everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk show, James Lindsay joins the program, author of an important new book that you should all purchase, Queering of the American Child.
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[00:01:52]  Dr. Lindsay, welcome back.
[00:01:54]  Hey, Charlie, good to see you.

=== Deliberate Provocation Tactics (12:10) ===

[00:01:56]  We text, I think, almost every day about some sort of different threat on the horizon.
[00:02:00]  You had a very smart Twitter thread, or at least a long tweet, X, whatever it's called, on the Trans Day of Visibility.
[00:02:08]  Walk us through it, James.
[00:02:10]  Well, I mean, so yesterday was Easter.
[00:02:13]  Yesterday was also Trans Day of Visibility.
[00:02:16]  And the Biden administration pushed this issue very hard.
[00:02:21]  He made the proclamation, as he has in 22 and in 21, and I guess 23 also.
[00:02:27]  He's done it every year since he's taken office.
[00:02:29]  He's made a proclamation that we're going to honor March 31st as Trans Day of Visibility in line with International Trans Day of Visibility.
[00:02:38]  But he made the announcement this year on Good Friday and he pushed it hard.
[00:02:43]  He mentioned absolutely nothing to do with any sensitivity toward Christians.
[00:02:47]  And so this creates an ambiguous situation.
[00:02:49]  And as I think you and I have talked about many times, an ambiguous situation is an ideal situation for an op.
[00:02:54]  In other words, an active measure.
[00:02:56]  And I think that the Biden administration, in this case, is trying to bait Christians into a reaction, an angry reaction based on this insult.
[00:03:06]  And it is an insult to the Christians in their high holy day.
[00:03:11]  And so what happened on social media all day yesterday is that the entire administration and its functionaries pushed this issue again and again and again.
[00:03:20]  Biden even went so far as to, well, whoever tweeted from his account, I should say, went so far as to say, you know, we see you transgender people.
[00:03:29]  You're the bravest people we know.
[00:03:31]  You're made in the image of God, he said, in fact, to them.
[00:03:34]  And so you can see that there's this intentional dabbling into the provocation against Christians.
[00:03:42]  And I think that the goal is, as I've said for over a year now, I think there's a goal that's growing to associate the right wing, to associate Trump, to associate conservatives and Republicans with not just Christianity, but with some virulent strain, some virulent heresy that does violent, crazy acts.
[00:04:02]  It's like Charlottesville all over again, or it's like January 6th in another fashion to try to discredit both.
[00:04:10]  well, three things, Trump, the so-called Agenda 2025, and conservative Christians overall.
[00:04:17]  So what does that look like?
[00:04:18]  And you said something really smart, which is the reaction is always the stated action, that they are involved in continual provocation campaigns.
[00:04:26]  And with that, James, I guess what you're saying is that this was intentional that they went as hard as they went on Easter.
[00:04:33]  Is that correct?
[00:04:34]  That's right.
[00:04:35]  It would have been very, so you are correct.
[00:04:37]  First of all, the rules for radicals, Saul Olinski said your enemy's reaction is your real action.
[00:04:43]  So the goal is always to provoke a useful reaction.
[00:04:46]  That's the old reflexive method or the dialectical method, problem reaction solution.
[00:04:51]  It depends on creating a problem and then utilizing the reaction to move to a desired solution every single time.
[00:04:58]  And so this is a known methodology.
[00:05:00]  It's in Rules for Radicals.
[00:05:02]  It's in Beautiful Trouble.
[00:05:03]  You can see it on Beautiful Trouble on their website, which is beautifultrouble.org.
[00:05:07]  It is one of their tactics and principles.
[00:05:10]  And so rather than acknowledging that this is likely to be upsetting to Christians as a true statesman and a true leader would do and say, hey, look, it happens that the Trans Day of Visibility falls on Easter this year.
[00:05:24]  And so we want to be sensitive to both our Christians, but we also want to acknowledge the trans, which I think is its own set of problems.
[00:05:32]  But that at least would have acknowledged that the administration was trying to thread this awkward needle one way or another at a minimum of provocation.
[00:05:43]  But there was nothing of the sort.
[00:05:44]  Instead, like I said, there was like this being pushed very, very hard from virtually every department in the federal government and lots of other Democrats, state governments copying it.
[00:05:55]  Whitmer, the NewJersey.gov account on Twitter put this out too, is going very hard on all of this with absolutely no acknowledgement whatsoever for Christians.
[00:06:07]  And so the methodology then they're employing is they want the outrage.
[00:06:12]  And outrage is justified here, but even more than that.
[00:06:15]  They want to try to get something that then solidifies themselves power, like a January 6th style event, right?
[00:06:21]  To try to build and build and build.
[00:06:23]  Because I'm outraged over this, James.
[00:06:25]  It's an insult.
[00:06:26]  I mean, that the entire regime would go so far in on this and so in such a pompous way.
[00:06:31]  Let's just play this.
[00:06:32]  For example, this is Miguel Cardona, who's the head of the Secretary of Education, who I know you've talked about before.
[00:06:39]  This is on Easter, PlayCut 11.
[00:06:41]  At the Department of Education, we know that all students do their best when they're seen and they're supportive.
[00:06:47]  To the many transgender students across the country listening on this Trans Day of Visibility, we in the Biden-Harris administration want you to know that we see you, we support you, and we celebrate you.
[00:07:00]  We also know it's not an easy time to be you.
[00:07:02]  Walking into a classroom should be an act of hope, not an act of bravery.
[00:07:06]  That every day you choose to show up as your true self, you make this world a more brave, more honest, and more free place.
[00:07:14]  In your gift for seeing things as they could be, I see the promise of America.
[00:07:19]  Today, we at the Department of Education want you to know that your school, your community, and your country are better because you're a part of it.
[00:07:27]  You don't just belong here.
[00:07:28]  We need you here.
[00:07:30]  That's on Easter, James.
[00:07:32]  Yeah, it is.
[00:07:33]  And Biden said the same thing from his Twitter account, or whoever runs it did, saying that they're the bravest people he knows, which were made immediately.
[00:07:40]  I thought that's when he said Hunter is the smartest person he knows, is the most preposterous thing I've seen in a while.
[00:07:47]  But like I said, I think this is a deliberate provocation in order to get a reaction.
[00:07:51]  You are absolutely correct.
[00:07:52]  Outrage is warranted.
[00:07:53]  I'm outraged, as a matter of fact, that this theosophical cult posing as some kind of a support group or whatever, the queer theory being the doctrine of this cult, is being pushed from the highest offices of our country on Easter with absolutely no attempt to make any kind of sensitivity to the awkwardness and the contradiction that's happening there.
[00:08:22]  It's truly outrageous.
[00:08:24]  But what I finished the rest of my kind of long tweet or post or whatever they're called with was an admonition to, you know, get grounded, pray for, first of all, these poor people caught up in this, and I mean the kids that are getting sucked into this cult, but also to pray for your enemies that they, you know, repent, that they stumble, that they make the mistakes, that this opens eyes.
[00:08:51]  And I actually advised people to spend time on Easter or throughout the entire weekend.
[00:08:56]  I think I put it on Saturday to read Matthew 10 in particular as guys.
[00:09:03]  It's not gentle as doves.
[00:09:05]  Right.
[00:09:05]  But more importantly, not just do you need to be discerning, which is wise as serpents, but also gentle, which is extremely important.
[00:09:12]  It's not nice.
[00:09:13]  You need to be gentle.
[00:09:14]  You need to be thoughtful in how you approach these things.
[00:09:17]  You need to not go forth in anger and be rash and whatever else.
[00:09:22]  But he goes on to say, you'll be persecuted.
[00:09:24]  You will be rounded up by the authorities.
[00:09:26]  And when you are asked to speak, don't worry about what you're going to say.
[00:09:30]  If you have faith, don't worry about what you're going to say.
[00:09:32]  The words will be given to you.
[00:09:33]  And so I want people to, I wanted people to take the time to slow down and back up into their faith.
[00:09:39]  Think about what the, because it's a time where people's emotions are running very high.
[00:09:44]  Yes.
[00:09:45]  Think about what the kind of godly way to approach that would be and to trust that the right words and the right attitudes and the right demeanor would come out so that it actually moves the needle.
[00:09:56]  Because the key thing here is they are trying to play for a reaction to play against Christians.
[00:10:02]  And if Christians don't take the bait and they rise to the occasion instead of to the provocation, then they'll make a demonstration that will open eyes.
[00:10:10]  Rise to the occasion instead of the provocation.
[00:10:13]  I love that.
[00:10:13]  I'm going to write that down.
[00:10:15]  This is really important, everybody.
[00:10:16]  They want you to be not angry, but they want you to act in the anger.
[00:10:20]  Those are two different things.
[00:10:21]  The anger is totally justified.
[00:10:22]  I'm right there with you.
[00:10:24]  But I don't make good decisions when I'm angry.
[00:10:26]  And the question is, how do you then react?
[00:10:28]  Do you organize?
[00:10:29]  Do you build coalitions?
[00:10:30]  Do you try to get involved in politics?
[00:10:33]  Or do you do something that they want you to do, which is they are yearning for another, let's just say, moment of outrage?
[00:10:41]  And the two biggest that have changed public opinion, number one, was Charlottesville.
[00:10:46]  Remember, that was Joe Biden's reason for running.
[00:10:48]  And then January 6th.
[00:10:51]  Joe Biden, in his original reason for running, he said, I'm running for president because of Charlottesville.
[00:10:56]  Because of a hoax.
[00:10:58]  You want to riff on that?
[00:10:59]  That the two kind of, let's just say, ops that they run on is Charlottesville and January 6th, both of which are people that were outraged about something that then took to the streets and were either infiltrated, provoked, or brought to levels to do things that they would regret, where a small minority of people did things that, you know, were violent, don't like, that then got represented as a movement whole.
[00:11:20]  Can you walk us through that?
[00:11:21]  I mean, that last piece is really the dynamic that people need to understand is that it will be a very small number of the worst actors that will be taken as representative of the entire group if people can't contain themselves.
[00:11:34]  And so, you know, a lot of people think that when I say this, I'm saying don't act.
[00:11:38]  What I'm saying is that they're setting up pretext for what they want you to do so that when you do it, like Joe Biden said, that's his reason for running.
[00:11:48]  And then January 6th has been nothing but a nightmare for conservatives and especially the people who, I guess, not even went into the Capitol, but went within a few hundred feet of the Capitol or something now for several years.
[00:12:01]  And it has justified so many of their things that what I'm calling for people to do is to take judicious action.
[00:12:08]  I mean, to invoke another Bible verse, it's the turn the other cheek first, which I don't think is very well understood.
[00:12:14]  A lot of times I'm even seeing people that claim to be Christians running around on the internet saying that turning the other cheek is kind of how we got here.
[00:12:20]  And it means kind of getting run over and bullied.
[00:12:24]  What in the world would Jesus be instructing people to let people bully you?
[00:12:28]  That's not, it can't possibly be what he's saying.
[00:12:31]  But what it does mean is that if somebody offers you an insult, say, point out the fact that they've insulted you and say, go ahead and insult me again.
[00:12:38]  Yes, that's exactly right.
[00:12:39]  I can abide.
[00:12:39]  No, it disempowers what otherwise would offend you.
[00:12:43]  That's exactly right.
[00:12:45]  You don't always have to do it.
[00:12:45]  That's right.
[00:12:46]  Christians are called.
[00:12:47]  Yes, keep going, please.
[00:12:48]  Well, they're just called to so many actions in the gospels that make it so easy to turn a tyrant's misbehaviors and misdeeds and misfecins back against them in the court of public opinion, where, you know, Jesus says his kingdom's not of this world, but we live in this world, and this world is not exactly a perfect heavenly world.
[00:13:11]  And the court of public opinion may or may not be just, but it is where people tend to get judged.
[00:13:16]  And so Christians have an enormous amount of excellent advice in the Gospels guiding them to make judicious decisions in circumstances like these up against tyrants, whether those tyrants are the kings spoken about in the gospels, whether it's Pilate or whether it, you know, in the Romans or whether it's the administration and its global functionaries that we're dealing with right now.
[00:13:40]  James, I love how you're quoting scripture.
[00:13:42]  It makes it gives me great joy.
[00:13:44]  And so we're going to keep diving into this.
[00:13:46]  I hope everyone understands the profundity of what James is saying here, which is that how we respond is going to determine the future of the civilization.
[00:13:55]  And understand, we can use this as fuel to build our ranks to show really what they believe and why they're doing it.
[00:14:01]  But the response is the total key.
[00:14:03]  And James, they will try to infiltrate groups, will they not?

=== Connecting Charlottesville and January 6th (06:54) ===

[00:14:06]  They will try to turn up the volume recklessly.
[00:14:10]  And by they, I mean the federal government, FBI.
[00:14:13]  Yeah, look what they did with the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer in Michigan.
[00:14:18]  And the only quibble I have with what you just said, Charlie, is you said they will infiltrate.
[00:14:22]  No, no, that's incorrect.
[00:14:23]  They have already infiltrated.
[00:14:24]  No, that's true.
[00:14:24]  That's true.
[00:14:24]  It's past tense.
[00:14:26]  The infiltration is here.
[00:14:27]  The infiltration is among us.
[00:14:30]  The infiltration is often not very savvy because it glows and you can kind of learn to see it.
[00:14:35]  But the infiltration is already here.
[00:14:37]  And the goal will be to push us off a cliff and then to snap the trap as we go.
[00:14:44]  Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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[00:15:48]  So, James, I'm going to mention three events, and I want you to tell me what they all have in common: Charlottesville, the death of George Floyd, and January 6th.
[00:15:56]  No, those were all setups that they used to move the ball an awful lot.
[00:16:02]  Charlottesville created the pretext to where people were able to believe that Trump, you know, was praising white supremacists and thus building out the whole America's a secretly white supremacist nation.
[00:16:14]  And then you move into the death of George Floyd, which was a mass line.
[00:16:19]  Actually, all three of these are mass line events against the American people as well.
[00:16:23]  But the mass line on George Floyd is the absolute biggest one that they've run, with the possible exception of COVID-19.
[00:16:30]  And they ran an operation to get the United States to completely change its policy in this reflexive environment where people believed the incorrect take on what was going on due to yet another hoax.
[00:16:43]  And then January 6th is the same thing.
[00:16:46]  It was a setup and then it was blown completely out of proportion.
[00:16:49]  And they have milked that thing.
[00:16:51]  I mean, I don't even know how to quantify how much milk they've been able to squeeze out of that tiny, tiny little cow, but it's unbelievable.
[00:17:00]  And the goals have been to run mass line attacks against the United States and its people and its constitution so the Democrats can seize power.
[00:17:08]  So, James, Charlottesville, Floyd, January 6th, these are three isolated events that then kind of become narrative and mythologized, right?
[00:17:17]  So they're constantly mentioned, they're constantly shown, they're constantly utilized for different purposes.
[00:17:23]  Charlottesville, race politics, George Floyd, BLM.
[00:17:27]  So similar to race politics, but the Charlottesville thing was like, oh my goodness, look at all the white supremacists around Floyd, obviously, BLM, and police brutality.
[00:17:35]  January 6th, about how this movement's going to try to overthrow the government.
[00:17:38]  All three of those made the national security state and the regime more powerful.
[00:17:44]  They use these events as justification, as dare I say, mini 9-11s, how it shocks the nation, give us power.
[00:17:53]  Shocks the nation, gives us power.
[00:17:55]  I want to play this tape, though, to prove my point.
[00:17:57]  This is before George Floyd.
[00:17:59]  This is before January 6th.
[00:18:01]  This is when Joe Biden was not to be considered a candidate that was going to go anywhere.
[00:18:04]  Remember, he was installed and implemented.
[00:18:06]  He really didn't win very much.
[00:18:07]  He was appointed during COVID and it looked like Bernie Sanders is going to win.
[00:18:10]  But he played on the mythology of Charlottesville because his handlers know the power of a big lie.
[00:18:17]  PlayCut 23.
[00:18:19]  Charlottesville is also home to a defining moment for this nation in the last few years.
[00:18:29]  It was there on August of 2017 we saw Klansmen and white supremacists and neo-Nazis come out in the open.
[00:18:38]  Their crazed faces illuminated by torches, veins bulging and burying the fangs of racism, champing the same anti-Semitic bile herd across Europe in the 30s.
[00:18:53]  And in that moment, I knew the threat to this nation was unlike any I had ever seen in my lifetime.
[00:19:00]  That's why today I'm announcing my candidacy.
[00:19:03]  Boom.
[00:19:04]  So there you have event, action, event, action.
[00:19:08]  Event, action.
[00:19:10]  James Lindsay.
[00:19:11]  No, that's pretext.
[00:19:12]  And by the way, Biden's looking an awful lot healthier back then.
[00:19:14]  No, I know.
[00:19:15]  He looked like a spring chicken back then.
[00:19:18]  Yeah, he looks quite young, as a matter of fact, by comparison.
[00:19:22]  But no, it's exactly what you said.
[00:19:24]  It's reflexive pretext.
[00:19:26]  The goal is to get people to believe this mythology and then to actualize some kind of power grab off of that mythology.
[00:19:35]  So there you had this event, whether that was organic or not, or to what degree it was organic, to what degree it was infiltrated is perhaps an open question.
[00:19:44]  And it became a defining moment that set up Joe Biden running for president, almost like a TV show.
[00:19:49]  And then you have George Floyd die, and it's the same kind of thing.
[00:19:53]  Nobody quite knows what's going on, but there's the narrative that we all have to run with.
[00:19:57]  And in each case, what you see is that there are massive shifts in their ability to advance their agenda.
[00:20:04]  And finally, with January 6th, here's a little piece of funny evidence that they're connected.
[00:20:09]  As many people know, I have an extremist profile on the Southern Poverty Law Center website.
[00:20:13]  And if you go look at it, the second thing they say about me is that I made a series of jokes mocking George Floyd on January 6th.
[00:20:22]  Why on earth would those two things be connected enough to where that's the second thing they have to say about me?
[00:20:28]  But it's obvious that the reason is because they're all part of this broad mythology that they're using to justify their take for power.
[00:20:36]  And in the same way in Christian theology, we have stories that build our faith, the binding of Isaac, the parting of the Red Sea, the transmission of the Ten Commandments on Sinai.
[00:20:47]  The current regime has myths that they need to repeat and tell to pass down to their infantry, to pass down to their activists.
[00:20:57]  They say, remember when all those white supremacists brought the Tiki torches to Charlottesville?

=== Mocking Floyd to Justify Power (15:22) ===

[00:21:00]  Do you remember where that poor black man was, you know, put the knee on the neck?
[00:21:04]  Do you remember when they tried to overthrow our government?
[00:21:06]  And remember, each one increases in their ferocity of action against us.
[00:21:10]  James Lindsay, he's over the mark here.
[00:21:12]  I really like it.
[00:21:13]  So, James, I don't know how much time you spent with Dr. Miriam Grossman.
[00:21:17]  I'm here to promote your book, not her book, but I've been intimately studying her book, and it is fantastic.
[00:21:24]  Yes, she's very good.
[00:21:25]  And I know it's a sister book to your book in the sense where almost you could sell it as a combo pack.
[00:21:31]  She handles it from a completely different perspective, from a medical perspective, right?
[00:21:35]  She's a clinician.
[00:21:36]  But the queering of the American child, what is it?
[00:21:40]  Tell us about how you wrote this book.
[00:21:41]  And you also have a co-author that I know you want to shout out.
[00:21:44]  Yeah, so we'll start with the co-author because this is how we wrote the book.
[00:21:46]  His name's Logan Lansing.
[00:21:48]  He is just a dad.
[00:21:49]  He is a dad who started planning to have a family.
[00:21:52]  He has two very young children.
[00:21:54]  So he started planning a few years ago with his wife.
[00:21:56]  And he said, well, I'm going to look and see.
[00:21:57]  He's vaguely aware of what's going on with the so-called culture wars.
[00:22:01]  And he wanted to look into what was going on in the schools.
[00:22:04]  And he saw all of the sexuality stuff, the comprehensive sexuality education and the queering of the American child, as we came to call it.
[00:22:11]  And he became concerned and he started to study queer theory.
[00:22:14]  And he took up a lot of my podcasts and my writing.
[00:22:17]  And he studied a lot of the papers and the books on his own that I hadn't read.
[00:22:21]  And he got in touch with me.
[00:22:22]  We shared information.
[00:22:23]  Eventually, he handed a manuscript to me and said, what do you think of this?
[00:22:26]  And I said, let's build this bigger if you want and turn it into the book that it became.
[00:22:32]  And so we worked on it together for a few months.
[00:22:34]  And we basically, what I loved about the book, besides its accessibility, how easy it is to read, how clear it is about the subject, is that right from the beginning, from the very first sentence, he pulls zero punches.
[00:22:46]  He said that the American schools are in the grip of a religious cult in the first sentence.
[00:22:51]  And I thought, wow.
[00:22:52]  Okay.
[00:22:52]  So now we're ready to talk about this issue the way it needs to be talked about.
[00:22:56]  And so we ran with that angle.
[00:22:58]  And so the book is about queer theory, how it made it into schools, how it's practiced in schools.
[00:23:03]  But ultimately, what its thesis is, is that queer theory is the doctrine of a religious cult that's based in sex and based on Marxism.
[00:23:11]  It primarily targets children.
[00:23:13]  And it has very little to do with gay people.
[00:23:16]  And they hide behind gay people like human shields to move their agenda.
[00:23:20]  And it so far has been extremely successful.
[00:23:22]  It's been out for a month and people are giving me the most incredible feedback.
[00:23:26]  I feel so blessed to get to help people understand the world that they're having to deal with and face.
[00:23:32]  James, it's a remarkable work that you've done here.
[00:23:35]  I haven't read it yet.
[00:23:36]  I've read almost all your books.
[00:23:37]  Race Marxism is an incredible contribution to knowledge.
[00:23:40]  Do you get the joke?
[00:23:41]  That's true.
[00:23:42]  It is.
[00:23:43]  It's a very important contribution to knowledge.
[00:23:46]  It will definitely not win an award for excellence in scholarship.
[00:23:50]  Just so everyone knows, Dr. Lindsay, his claim to fame before all this stuff, and I'm glad that you've added to the bio, but it's just amazing.
[00:23:58]  He wrote a series of fake academic papers.
[00:24:00]  What was the one that was the dogs getting raped or something, or which one was it?
[00:24:04]  Yeah, dogs getting raped.
[00:24:06]  So we assess that human beings can find out how much rape culture people accept by watching whether or not they accept dog rape at the dog park.
[00:24:15]  So if they went to the dog park and saw dogs humping each other and they were favorable to it, which we claim straight men were, but as long as it wasn't gay dog rape, in which case straight men were not.
[00:24:25]  You could find out all kinds of things about people's attitudes about rape.
[00:24:28]  And so then we concluded that we should train men the way that we train dogs out of obedience manuals and with leashes and things, if only we could make it politically feasible in order to overcome rape culture.
[00:24:39]  And this was accepted by a leading feminist geography journal and given an award for excellence in scholarship in 2018, which was pretty exciting.
[00:24:49]  And then they said it was a contribution, like a wonderful contribution to knowledge.
[00:24:54]  That was a much more gross paper that was called an important contribution to knowledge, which is more up the queering of the American Child alley.
[00:25:01]  We claimed it's straight another paper, which is accepted by a high-level sexualities journal called Sexuality and Culture.
[00:25:08]  We claimed that straight men are primarily transphobic because they don't practice putting things up number two.
[00:25:14]  And if they practiced, they would become more feminine, more feminist, more sensitive, and much less homophobic and transphobic.
[00:25:23]  And that was called an important contribution to knowledge.
[00:25:26]  This is the state of the academy, everybody.
[00:25:28]  The book is The Queering of the American Child: How a New School Religious Cult, and I'm going to ask James about that in a second, poisons the minds and bodies of normal kids.
[00:25:39]  Ooh, using the word normal, James.
[00:25:42]  How dare you?
[00:25:43]  That is a transphobic word.
[00:25:45]  There is no such thing as normal.
[00:25:47]  There is only queer.
[00:25:48]  We're going to talk about that sort of tension, though.
[00:25:50]  The idea of a normal kid.
[00:25:52]  It says here: American children are learning a lot about sex, gender, and sexuality in schools.
[00:25:57]  District administrators, teachers, and even librarians are obsessed with pushing inappropriate topics onto kids, all in the name of inclusion.
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[00:26:46]  So, James, in your book, Queering of the American Child, you say how a new school religious cult poisons the mind.
[00:26:53]  So, I want to dive in on this word religious.
[00:26:55]  So, if it is a religion, what is their central text?
[00:27:00]  What is their belief in the afterlife or the divine?
[00:27:04]  What do they worship?
[00:27:05]  So, what I'm doing, James, is I'm analytically using the criteria of how we determine something to be a religion, and I want to start to go through those boxes.
[00:27:12]  So, please, let's start with those two.
[00:27:14]  What is their core text or texts that would comprise the doctrine of queer theory, and what do they worship?
[00:27:23]  So, what I would tell you, the core texts would be, and it's not a single text, it's a body of literature, would in fact be the queer theory literature and its antecedents in the postmodern and critical theory literature.
[00:27:35]  For example, over the weekend, because of this provocation against Christians that we saw on Easter, I've been sharing from Paulo Fready, the Marxist educator from Brazil, a page out of his 1984 book called The Politics of Education.
[00:27:49]  It's in the 10th chapter.
[00:27:50]  It's kind of far into the book, but he says that what's actually necessary to be on the side of the oppressed is a death and rebirth, in fact, a resurrection.
[00:27:59]  He says it's in fact an experienced personal Easter that you have to go through, and that the Easter of the calendar is actually just dead rhetoric with no hope of resurrection.
[00:28:09]  And that's how he explains it.
[00:28:10]  So, this is a body of literature from the critical theory approach and from the postmodern view of the false structure of reality leading into the queer theory, which also, of course, has all of its roots down in Karl Marx, whether it's the manifesto or whether it's the economic philosophic manuscripts earlier than that, which is a very religious text.
[00:28:33]  In those cases, that body of literature produces the religious texts of this cult religion.
[00:28:43]  What was the second part?
[00:28:44]  Well, I said, What do they worship?
[00:28:46]  Oh, they worship themselves.
[00:28:47]  It's one of the most extraordinarily narcissistic cults in history.
[00:28:51]  The queer theory aspect of this is pretty unabashedly the worship of very much so the individual self.
[00:29:00]  If we look back a little further, though, and we understand that this derives from Karl Marx, and we make that argument very well in the book, Karl Marx worshipped man, man as a collective, man as a being that sees itself and understands itself to know that it is its own creator, and in fact, a creative species.
[00:29:18]  And in other words, a species that's able to do acts of creation.
[00:29:23]  And in particular, he creates himself.
[00:29:26]  He creates himself by creating society, and then society in turn indoctrinates or socializes man to be who he is.
[00:29:33]  Marx believed that happened through economic conditions.
[00:29:38]  But as a matter of fact, the queer theory cult believes that happens through the definition of normalcy and legitimacy.
[00:29:44]  What conditions do we use to qualify something as being normal and acceptable, or on the other hand, perverse or degenerate?
[00:29:52]  So the question, let's keep on going through kind of just agreed upon criteria of religious.
[00:29:59]  How do they then expand their ranks?
[00:30:02]  I mean, not every religion has evangelism as a core tenet.
[00:30:06]  For example, in Judaism, they will accept converts, but it is not a core tenant of Judaism to go and seek converts of all nations.
[00:30:15]  In Christianity, it is not just suggested it is a primary focus of activity to try and spread the good news, the gospel, to make disciples of all nations.
[00:30:25]  Is it in queer theory the idea to expand, to proselytize?
[00:30:30]  And if so, how?
[00:30:31]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:30:32]  They fundamentally believe that everybody is intrinsically queer and people have adopted an ideology or mythology of normalcy that prevents them from experiencing their intrinsically queer nature.
[00:30:43]  So it's their goal to go reawaken people to who they really are.
[00:30:47]  And that requires things like trans day of visibility.
[00:30:50]  You have to make it very visible to make people wonder about it and ask questions about it.
[00:30:54]  You have to attach a very, frankly, divisive value set called inclusion to where you're a horrible person if you're not participating according to the dictates of the cult.
[00:31:04]  And frankly, it recruits through grooming.
[00:31:07]  And we're very clear on that in the book.
[00:31:08]  And I mean cult or ideological or religious grooming.
[00:31:11]  I don't necessarily mean sexual grooming, though in this case, they happen to overlap.
[00:31:16]  What I mean by grooming is that they are, In their own words, a guy, Kevin Kumashiro, we quote, makes it very clear.
[00:31:23]  They are inducing trauma.
[00:31:25]  They are inducing personal crisis and then structuring the environment around children through queer education, specifically so that they resolve that crisis in the direction that makes them more open to queer theory.
[00:31:37]  The verbiage in the Drag Queen Story Hour paper you and I have talked about in the past is explicit as well.
[00:31:42]  They call Drag Queen Story Hour a, and I quote, preparatory introduction to alternate modes of kinship.
[00:31:49]  And they reference that it's family friendly, and this is their words, family-friendly in the sense of the queer family that you find on the street.
[00:31:58]  So it's very explicitly that they are introducing the ideas, and then they are traumatizing children and sometimes adults into accepting these ideas under the view of inclusion or of self-worth.
[00:32:11]  And then they engage in practices like love bombing.
[00:32:15]  They go through the entire what they call trauma bonding spectrum, as we outline in the book, to bring people in.
[00:32:21]  But evangelistic isn't quite the right word, but it is definitely a strongly proselytizing.
[00:32:30]  But they look to expand their ranks, right?
[00:32:32]  And so I want to go to everybody.
[00:32:34]  I want to go through some of the language here.
[00:32:35]  I wrote this down.
[00:32:37]  So would it be fair to say that their theology is original queer, not original sin?
[00:32:43]  That you are originally queer at the foundational level and that you've suppressed it through all of the Western society, Anglo-Saxon sort of practices, and that we have to try to reignite what has then been stifled.
[00:32:56]  Is that part of their belief?
[00:32:58]  That's close.
[00:32:59]  It would be that human beings are intrinsically, we're made, as Joe Biden said, in the image of God, to be queer.
[00:33:06]  God would be considered queer for sure.
[00:33:08]  And so your state, your unfallen state in the garden would have been queer.
[00:33:14]  But then with the advent of the idea of certain people asserting a concept of normalcy or legitimacy to human expression or behavior, all of a sudden the man fell and he became ashamed of how he behaved.
[00:33:30]  He became ashamed of who he was, especially if he was perverse and the other people shamed him.
[00:33:35]  And we fell out of that ideal state.
[00:33:37]  And so the goal would be to bring people back into knowledge.
[00:33:40]  This is identical to Marx.
[00:33:42]  He believed that we were a fundamentally social species that had forgotten it because of the introduction of private property that estranges us from one another.
[00:33:49]  Here, it's the exact same thing.
[00:33:51]  We are a fundamentally queer, limitless, no rules, no limitations species being, and that we have lost track of that due to the social strictures and norms that come with polite society.
[00:34:07]  So this is where it goes full circle, James.
[00:34:09]  That idea is not new.
[00:34:11]  In fact, it's ancient.
[00:34:15]  And it's Gnostic Hermeticism.
[00:34:17]  You're the only one to ever put these dots together, where it goes all the way back to an idea from Egypt.
[00:34:25]  What is this?
[00:34:26]  Yeah, well, that's the Hermetic idea.
[00:34:29]  And just to be very clear, queer theory is extraordinarily hermetic in its orientation.
[00:34:34]  Hermeticism is an ancient, I would say, evil religion of transformation.
[00:34:40]  It believes that there is a total unity to all existence.
[00:34:46]  Everything in the universe is God.
[00:34:48]  I think the formal word for that is either pantheist or panentheist.
[00:34:52]  I forget which one.
[00:34:53]  And everything is actually God embodied, but it's shards of the divine trapped within the shape of the mundane.
[00:35:03]  And so what you have to do is undergo practices of alchemy to find the truly divine aspects of things or yourself and bring them back together.
[00:35:14]  And when all of that has been accomplished, then we will return to the unity of God and we're all part of that unity of God.
[00:35:21]  So in other words, we'll all return to the Pleroma or to heaven or whatever.
[00:35:25]  The plenitude of God is what that means.
[00:35:27]  And so in this case, being queer for the queer theorists or being a socialist for the Marxists is in fact the divine spark hidden inside of your mundane form.
[00:35:37]  And the goal is to bring that out by criticizing away the lead so that that spark of gold can blossom.
[00:35:45]  And so that's the idea, and that's why it's totally critical is they're constantly criticizing everything that they believe stifles the Gnostic imperative that they think is divinity at their heart.
[00:35:57]  And of course, you see this as they did the I Joan thing at the Globe Shakespeare Theater where they readed Joan of Arc and it was non-binary and trans.
[00:36:05]  And the actor comes out looking like Harry Potter and says, trans people are sacred.
[00:36:10]  And you hear that rhetoric all over the place because that's actually what they believe.
[00:36:13]  They believe that they are freeing the divinity inside of themselves that has been imprisoned by the mundane world and the requirements of other people in society.

=== The Gnostic Imperative Critique (11:00) ===

[00:36:23]  So James, I've asked you this question before, but I'm going to ask it again.
[00:36:27]  And maybe you might have a different answer the more that you've been reading the scriptures, which I love.
[00:36:31]  What is it about Christianity that is such a threat to the queer theory religion?
[00:36:36]  I mean, the primary thing that the threat about Christianity is a threat to it is that the first commandment, you'll have no other gods before me.
[00:36:46]  When people truly believe that, it's a real problem for believing that there's this transformational religion of remaking yourself into who you really were, or that we're actually already gods or God in unity that doesn't realize it.
[00:37:02]  That's simply not possible.
[00:37:04]  So the line between arrogance and humility really is the first thing, but the most threatening aspect of Christianity overwhelmingly to the queer theory cult is the forgiveness through repentance for anybody.
[00:37:17]  So you take your own selfish action and you repent of it and you can be forgiven and you are valid and valued and in fact regenerate.
[00:37:27]  You come back into the fullness of your being through basically repentance of your selfishness, which is an arrow of death to these fundamentally narcissistic religions.
[00:37:41]  An arrow of death.
[00:37:43]  And it really does seem to be a tension.
[00:37:47]  And this is James' words.
[00:37:49]  If there was a Satan, queer theory would become from the pit of hell.
[00:37:53]  Think about it.
[00:37:53]  You have everyone walking around that you are God and that you have to just go through a process of metamuffé, metamorphosis in Greek, transformation into who you really are.
[00:38:04]  Not that you should honor God, but that you are God.
[00:38:08]  Think about the implications of that.
[00:38:11]  You're living through, actually, the implications of that.
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[00:39:05]  So, James, we have a listener here who I really respect who texted me, clip that right there, clip it, alchemy.
[00:39:12]  Most people don't realize what, realize when they believe this.
[00:39:15]  He explained that so well.
[00:39:16]  So, riff a little bit additionally on alchemy.
[00:39:18]  That got a big response from someone who I really, really, really love.
[00:39:22]  There's so much that could be said about alchemy.
[00:39:24]  Alchemy is the objective of turning something that is not into something, or sorry, something that is into something that is not.
[00:39:32]  It is a magic spell.
[00:39:33]  I just read Alchemy and Finance by George Soros last week, so I could actually spend a lot of time talking about this.
[00:39:39]  But it's a process of transformation of the mundane into the divine, whether that's turning a mundane metal like lead into gold, whether that's turning death into life through the elixir of life, whether that's just meant in a spiritual capacity where we're taking our lower level self and elevating to some astral understanding of ourself or cosmic consciousness or whatever they want to call it.
[00:40:03]  The idea is that you are doing something magical to weave in some of a lie about what's divine into the truth of what we really are, which is that we're people.
[00:40:18]  There is no turning lead into gold.
[00:40:20]  There is no turning death into life.
[00:40:22]  If that's possible, that's not for us.
[00:40:25]  And we don't have that capacity.
[00:40:27]  But the idea of alchemy is it's come about in critical theory and these critical methods or what would be called negative theologies or apophatic theology is that in fact, the shard of the divine is always trapped within the mundane form.
[00:40:43]  And the goal is to tear apart the mundane form.
[00:40:46]  Or in other words, in Herbert Marcuse's language, the neo-Marxist, to criticize those aspects of the current society so that the ideal society that is contained within it can come out.
[00:40:57]  And so it's an idea of magical transformation or as you said, metamorphosis or transmutation.
[00:41:03]  That's the word.
[00:41:04]  Yes.
[00:41:05]  From, yes, transmutation of substance to take a allegedly fallen and mundane substance and liberate its divine aspect and actualize it in reality.
[00:41:16]  And what happens when you try to practice alchemy in reality is in the physical sciences, it's impossible and it fails.
[00:41:23]  And in the social sciences, you're engaging in manipulation that eventually creates tremendous calamity and discord.
[00:41:29]  And speak on this, James.
[00:41:31]  The promise is liberation, but in reality, it is slavery.
[00:41:35]  It doesn't make people more free.
[00:41:36]  It makes them easier to control and far more tortured and tormented.
[00:41:41]  And we could just look at that empirically, but talk about that philosophically.
[00:41:45]  It doesn't liberate people.
[00:41:46]  It does the opposite.
[00:41:48]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:41:48]  It does not liberate people.
[00:41:50]  C.S. Lewis was really clear on this, and he talked about, you know, he actually did this really great thing where he compared it to the Tao so that it wouldn't get caught up in the world.
[00:41:59]  It's an abolition of man.
[00:42:01]  That's where he talks about that.
[00:42:02]  That's right.
[00:42:02]  Yeah.
[00:42:03]  Which I read Flying Out to See You in Phoenix a few weeks ago.
[00:42:06]  That's great.
[00:42:07]  And so it's a beautiful book.
[00:42:08]  Yeah, it's what I said is that if I had the capacity to say this about this topic, it's what I would have said, but I don't have the capacity to write like Lewis.
[00:42:17]  And so there is a right way to live.
[00:42:20]  There is at least some right ways to live.
[00:42:23]  And when you live those ways, you can govern yourself and you don't have to be controlled.
[00:42:29]  When you decide to, and what queer really means is to throw away limiting principles, to throw away all of the Tao or the way of living or righteousness, is to throw it away in pursuit of your own selfish desires.
[00:42:44]  And when you live that way instead, what happens is things start to go wrong.
[00:42:48]  You don't have the capacity to govern yourself against the realities of the world.
[00:42:53]  And so what you have to start doing is beseeching or claiming power in order to control the world around you.
[00:43:01]  It's the exact inversion of the old advice.
[00:43:04]  The old advice is to prepare the child for the road, not to prepare the road for the child.
[00:43:09]  But when you decide to liberate yourself of all limiting principles, the only thing you can do is prepare the road.
[00:43:14]  Prepare the child for the road.
[00:43:19]  Who said that, James?
[00:43:20]  Oh my gosh, that's so old.
[00:43:21]  I wish I knew.
[00:43:22]  It sounds like a Chinese proverb.
[00:43:25]  So let's talk about abolition of men and how that connects to your book.
[00:43:28]  In Abolition of Man, C.S. Lewis starts kind of strangely criticizing a child's book, saying, Yes, that's right.
[00:43:36]  The child's book says that the waterfall is nice or whatever, but not sublime.
[00:43:41]  Who is to say that the waterfall, if I'm drawing from memory here many years back, who's to say that the waterfall is sublime?
[00:43:47]  And he dives in basically saying Western civilization will die if this is played out.
[00:43:53]  It was like the God.
[00:43:54]  It's like the God is dead warning cry.
[00:43:56]  And talk about how that connects to your book.
[00:43:59]  And he eventually gets into a non-religious statement where he says, look, you could draw from the Asians or draw from Judaism or Christianity the Tao or the way.
[00:44:08]  If you do not have an agreed upon way to live, then you're going to have some form of despotic totalitarianism and darkness.
[00:44:17]  James, I'd love to have you riff on that and connect it with your book.
[00:44:19]  No, well, what's going on, at least as we're exposing it and queering of the American child, is that the queer theory literature really advocates for individuals.
[00:44:32]  And I want to put a caveat on this, but go with me.
[00:44:35]  They want individuals to act however they want.
[00:44:38]  So everybody's way is the right way.
[00:44:40]  There is no wrong way.
[00:44:42]  The only thing that's actually wrong is anything that supports what's considered normal.
[00:44:47]  And I know you honed in on those words on the cover earlier, normal kids.
[00:44:50]  What in the world?
[00:44:50]  How dare you, James?
[00:44:52]  Normal.
[00:44:52]  What do you mean by normal?
[00:44:53]  As a matter of fact, when I put this book out, my father-in-law texted me almost immediately and was like, how are you going to define normal kid?
[00:45:00]  And I'm like, uh-oh, you know, here we go.
[00:45:03]  But the fact of the matter is, is that we're not, we don't have to define normal.
[00:45:06]  We define normal as not queer because queer defines itself as whatever, literally whatever is opposed to the normal.
[00:45:14]  He explains, David Halperin, who defined queer for the first time in 95, explains that what's meant by queer is nothing essential to the person.
[00:45:23]  In other words, it's a purely political stance.
[00:45:25]  So a normal kid could be a tomboy, could be a kind of, you know, a feminine boy.
[00:45:30]  It could be a normal boy.
[00:45:31]  It could be a, you know, whatever.
[00:45:33]  It doesn't matter.
[00:45:34]  They're boys and girls and they're fine like they are.
[00:45:36]  But what being queer means is having adopted this politics, that it has adopted this kind of this radical rejection of normalcy.
[00:45:46]  And so a normal kid is any kid, no matter how they act, who has not accepted a radical politics of destroying everything around them.
[00:45:55]  Now, Lewis's point was that that kind of a disposition follows from having essentially no heart put into you through understanding that there is something far more deep than this kind of presentation in the children's book, which is all very, you know, anodyne.
[00:46:10]  Oh, the waterfall is nice and you can't make any value judgments about it.
[00:46:15]  He's saying, no, no, no, you have to be able to make value judgments.
[00:46:18]  And so when you make value judgments, you have yourself kind of filled up and thus resistant to this.
[00:46:25]  But when you are in this kind of nihilistic emptiness, at that point, the only thing to fill yourself up with is yourself, which is this vicious circle because it's ultimately empty.
[00:46:36]  And what you end up doing is pursuing your own self.
[00:46:39]  But with queer theory, what it's saying is it's what's being, not what Lewis is saying, but with queer theory, how it attaches this, is that what you're filling yourself up with is hatred for everything that makes things work.
[00:46:54]  And that's what it means to be queer.
[00:46:56]  So normal kids are however they want to be.
[00:46:58]  But the fact of the matter is, is that they haven't adopted an intention.
[00:47:01]  Imagine this, though, a child adopting an intentionally oppositional politic, because that's what it means to be queer.
[00:47:08]  And if there isn't the, so if we could venture so far to say the Tao is the normal, it's the way, that if you stray off the way, then you aren't normal.
[00:47:21]  And we should, is that fair to say?

=== Straying from the Righteous Way (01:17) ===

[00:47:24]  Well, yeah.
[00:47:24]  And then, I mean, we can tie that back to the Bible, of course, which is that when you stray off from the righteous way, what's going to happen is bad things are going to befall you, and you have to be called back to that.
[00:47:36]  Again, we come back to why repentance is like the core enemy of queer theory.
[00:47:41]  It's setting yourself aside and trying to get back onto the, as Jesus said, straight and narrow way rather than the wide path that leads to destruction intentionally, because when we do that, when we're called back to the righteous way, we flourish.
[00:47:58]  James, it is the queering of the American Child.
[00:48:00]  I feel like we're just getting warmed up.
[00:48:01]  So you're doing great.
[00:48:03]  Final question, James.
[00:48:04]  What part of the Bible are you reading right now and are you enjoying it?
[00:48:07]  Well, I am enjoying it, but I'm still in Matthew, actually.
[00:48:10]  Matthew 7, 10, I got pulled into 26, which is the parable of the talents.
[00:48:15]  We've talked about the parable of the talents before.
[00:48:18]  I didn't realize that's what it was.
[00:48:19]  It's my favorite story in the Bible.
[00:48:21]  But I'm really getting a lot out of Matthew 7 and 10.
[00:48:25]  We'll have to talk more.
[00:48:26]  God bless you, James Lindsay.
[00:48:27]  Excellent.
[00:48:27]  As always, by his book.
[00:48:28]  Thanks so much.
[00:48:29]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:48:30]  Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:48:33]  Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
[00:48:37]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.