The Charlie Kirk Show - De-Romneying Utah with Gunnar Thorderson and James Lindsay
Aired: 2023-06-19
Duration: 35:05


=== Utah Grassroots Republicans Rise (09:39) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey, everybody, fan of Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:00:02]  A young rebel running for RNC committeeman in Utah.
[00:00:06]  And Dr. James Lindsay joins the rest of the episode.
[00:00:08]  Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:10]  Get involved with TurningPoint Action Today, tpaction.com.
[00:00:14]  That is tpaction.com.
[00:00:16]  Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, Dan Bongino, Steve Bannon, Josh Hawley, JD Vance, Vivek Ramaswamy, Lauren Boebert, Megan Kelly, and more.
[00:00:23]  tpaction.com.
[00:00:25]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:00:26]  Here we go.
[00:00:27]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:29]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
[00:00:31]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:00:34]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:00:37]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:00:38]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:00:39]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:00:46]  Turning point USA.
[00:00:48]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:00:57]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:00]  Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.
[00:01:09]  We've been highlighting story after story of the grassroots starting to rise up to take back the Republican Party.
[00:01:17]  Every single one of you in the audience should be a precinct committeeman.
[00:01:19]  Every single one of you should be involved in the grassroots.
[00:01:21]  You can do that at tpaction.com.
[00:01:23]  I want to highlight somebody I've known for quite some time.
[00:01:26]  He was with the kind of one of the original hiring classes at Turning Point USA.
[00:01:30]  And he is now running in Utah for national committeeman.
[00:01:34]  Gunnar Thorson.
[00:01:35]  Gunnar, welcome to the program.
[00:01:37]  You are straight out of the grassroots.
[00:01:38]  You're not happy with the direction of the country or the RNC and you're trying to do something about it.
[00:01:43]  Tell us about it, Gunnar.
[00:01:44]  Well, first, thanks for having me on, Charlie.
[00:01:47]  It's always great to be here.
[00:01:48]  You know, I joke with my wife.
[00:01:51]  I've been involved with Turning Point in some form or fashion longer than we've been married.
[00:01:56]  So it's a long, long relationship that I've come to love.
[00:02:01]  And I think it was 11 years we just celebrated, wasn't it?
[00:02:04]  That's right.
[00:02:05]  So congratulations, man.
[00:02:07]  It's incredible what you've been able to accomplish with Turning Point USA.
[00:02:11]  And I'm just happy to be involved in some way, shape, or form.
[00:02:15]  But yeah, in Utah, I mean, I'm sure you've seen, we've been dealing with just the craziest situation where the grassroots just feel like we're completely disenfranchised.
[00:02:27]  You've got this sort of wing of the party, this rhino class that forcing stuff down our throats that nobody in Utah wants, like this woke flag, like porn in schools that has taken way too long to even get removed and it still hasn't been removed.
[00:02:45]  They're now trying to remove the Bible.
[00:02:47]  And it's just, it's issue after issue where the grassroots is like, look, this is not our GOP.
[00:02:54]  So no one's donating anymore.
[00:02:57]  It's just apathy all around.
[00:02:59]  And so I'm running in hopes that we can bring some trust back to the Utah GOP and show that, look, with this young representation and with the grassroots back in charge, people are going to start donating again.
[00:03:11]  And we're seeing that all across the country.
[00:03:14]  Yeah, so Gunner, let's talk about, you know, Utah in particular.
[00:03:19]  Obviously, we have Mitt Romney, and it is a predominant LDS state.
[00:03:24]  Are you starting to see trends or patterns that people in the LDS community want a stronger conservative agenda, not what Mitt Romney has been offering?
[00:03:34]  Well, yeah, I mean, a recent poll just came out.
[00:03:36]  His approval rating is lower than it's ever been.
[00:03:40]  There's just been things that have been happening recently, I feel like, you know, where people are starting to wake up.
[00:03:47]  You know, look, you can fool us once, but you're not going to fool us twice.
[00:03:51]  And the people of Utah have really woken up.
[00:03:54]  And we now have some people who are stepping in to run and some great people like Mayor Trent Staggs, you know, who are stepping up and people are getting behind.
[00:04:04]  So there's definitely some optimism to be had.
[00:04:06]  I'm certainly optimistic that Utah is not going to be fooled twice.
[00:04:11]  And the polls are really starting to show that.
[00:04:14]  Yeah, so within Republican circles in Utah, would you say that the grassroots is starting to gain more and more of a footing?
[00:04:24]  I mean, there's kind of a lot of several aspects here.
[00:04:28]  Rana, who runs the RNC, is LDS.
[00:04:32]  And so Utah, I believe, has kind of been a very favorable state for her.
[00:04:36]  And now you're running for committeeman.
[00:04:38]  What do you want to see nationally from the RNC when it comes to getting ready for 2024 and representing a grassroots agenda?
[00:04:47]  Good question.
[00:04:49]  So, yeah, I just got elected recently to the state central committee.
[00:04:53]  And, you know, we now have the most conservative state central committee that we've had in years.
[00:05:00]  And so the deck is certainly starting to lean more towards the grassroots, which is why I feel so inspired to run because the grassroots, I mean, there's just this overwhelming energy that we're leaving behind that Bush type Republicanism, that Cheney Republicanism that Mitt Romney and Spencer Cox and all these people represent.
[00:05:24]  Now, look, as national committeemen, I'm going to stay neutral.
[00:05:28]  And I believe and I'm optimistic that the people of Utah are not going to be fooled twice and that they're going to elect really good Republicans in office.
[00:05:38]  And I'm fully prepared to support whoever gets our nomination.
[00:05:43]  And the party's waking up to support those who go through convention and instead of those that go and sort of circumnavigate the party, if you will, via the signature path.
[00:05:55]  And so in Utah, I feel strongly.
[00:05:57]  But nationally, to your second part of the question, I'm really concerned, Charlie, there's rumors going around that there's sort of plans maybe from the RNC to cook up some type of rule change to keep Trump off the ballot.
[00:06:13]  Any person under indictment may not be able to get the nomination.
[00:06:17]  I just want to make sure that we have strong conservative leaders who are going to be prepared to stand up and defend this country and defend people from the craziness that we're seeing from our DOJ and FBI.
[00:06:31]  And so that's why I think it's more important than ever that we have really strong, courageous voices on the RNC that are willing to step up and defend this country.
[00:06:41]  Yeah, amen.
[00:06:42]  And so has Mitt Romney made an announcement yet of whether or not he's going to run?
[00:06:51]  Yeah, I'm pretty sure he has.
[00:06:54]  Although it's one of those things that they're really trying to keep to the last minute.
[00:06:58]  Is he in?
[00:06:59]  Is he out?
[00:07:00]  And I really think they're trying to get the pulse on these polls.
[00:07:05]  But really, the only people that put out polls in Utah are very in-depth with that wing of the party.
[00:07:11]  So how reliable those polls are, I don't know.
[00:07:14]  But they try to show, hey, even though his favorability is dropping, we still think he has a really good shot at reelection.
[00:07:21]  But I think he knows he's in trouble.
[00:07:24]  And it doesn't seem like he's doing much at all to try to communicate with the grassroots or earn the base back at all.
[00:07:31]  And so I'd be shocked if he did run again.
[00:07:35]  It seems like almost everybody that I talk to here in Utah is convinced that he's not running again.
[00:07:42]  But we'll see.
[00:07:44]  It's something they could drum something up and then have him run again.
[00:07:48]  Or what could happen is he could drop out and then Spencer Cox would appoint his replacement until the end of the term, which is also something that happens a lot in Utah.
[00:07:58]  Spencer Cox is no good.
[00:08:00]  Gunner, I'm glad you're running.
[00:08:01]  There is a promising theme happening.
[00:08:03]  We just saw this in North Dakota of grassroots, strong conservative patriots that are running and winning for national committeeman, state party chair.
[00:08:14]  The moderates are being thrown out of the party, and MAGA, grassroots, America first, focused on the strong issues is ascendant.
[00:08:24]  Gunner, thank you so much.
[00:08:26]  Thanks, Charlie.
[00:08:27]  And it's important to reiterate: there is a significant disconnect between our elected leaders and the grassroots.
[00:08:35]  Massive chasm.
[00:08:37]  A significant disconnect.
[00:08:40]  And this is about closing that gap.
[00:08:44]  It's about giving the grassroots a voice and having the RNC be a people party.
[00:08:50]  Gunner, right there, him running for RNC committeeman in Utah, is a sign of things to come.
[00:08:55]  We want to highlight these stories as they pop up.
[00:08:58]  You too can run for state party committee, your state central committee.
[00:09:02]  You too can run for national committeemen.
[00:09:04]  You could support someone that is.
[00:09:06]  These matter so much.
[00:09:08]  We have to do this state by state by state by state.
[00:09:11]  Every state and territory have these races.
[00:09:14]  And usually it's just kind of typical RC insiders that dominate.
[00:09:18]  The grassroots are getting involved.
[00:09:20]  And it is really making the stakeholders of a failed RNC corrupt regime nervous.
[00:09:28]  The more people-centric, the more grassroots-centric the RNC is, it'll be healthier to hold our elected officials accountable and win.

=== Crushing Competitors With Strategy (06:13) ===

[00:09:40]  Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
[00:09:41]  Every day, the parallel economy grows bigger and bigger.
[00:09:44]  It's powered by everyday Americans who are sick and tired of all the woke nonsense being jammed into every product they consume.
[00:09:50]  Big mobile companies are no different.
[00:09:52]  For years, they've been dumping millions into left-wing causes, and we had to take it because you need a cell phone and probably thought that there was no alternative, but there is.
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[00:10:25]  Just go to patriotmobile.com/slash Charlie or call 878-PARTIOIT, get free activation today with the offer code Charlie.
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[00:10:37]  PatriotMobile.com/slash Charlie or call them at 878-PATRIOT.
[00:10:43]  Dr. James Lindsay is with us.
[00:10:45]  He's the author of several books.
[00:10:46]  He is prolific.
[00:10:47]  I don't say that lightly.
[00:10:49]  I read almost everything he publishes, from new discourses to Marxification of Education, race Marxism, and cynical theories.
[00:10:56]  Is that the whole canon?
[00:10:57]  That's the whole canon, yeah.
[00:10:59]  For right now, make sure you just get the mic right up there, James.
[00:11:02]  So, happy Juneteenth, James.
[00:11:04]  Is that what today is?
[00:11:06]  Is that true?
[00:11:07]  Yeah, it is Juneteenth.
[00:11:08]  I forgot.
[00:11:10]  It's not important to me, so I forgot.
[00:11:12]  And I think that this is an attitude, right?
[00:11:16]  I feel like these kind of fake holidays.
[00:11:18]  I mean, Juneteenth is a real holiday in Texas.
[00:11:20]  Yes, but I mean, we know what this is.
[00:11:22]  We know what this is.
[00:11:24]  And so, having forgotten that it exists, I think, is kind of a key mentality that I think a lot of Americans should have.
[00:11:32]  You know, speaking of forgetting that things exist, I'm sad to admit to our audience that as a family, we use Amazon more than we should.
[00:11:41]  When you have a young kid, it's almost unavoidable.
[00:11:43]  However, it's interesting.
[00:11:45]  You know, I had to go pick something up at Pottery Bard and Kids, and I had to leave gay stuff everywhere, Pride, all that.
[00:11:52]  By the way, Trevor Project, go donate.
[00:11:54]  They have the A is for Activist book.
[00:11:56]  Have you seen that little baby book?
[00:11:57]  A is for Activist?
[00:11:58]  Yeah, I actually have a copy of it.
[00:11:59]  I wanted to get your thoughts on.
[00:12:00]  Totally out of control.
[00:12:01]  And then I was just interested.
[00:12:03]  I said, okay, went to Amazon.com and then Whole Foods.
[00:12:06]  If you walked into Whole Foods, which I hate to say, they do a good job.
[00:12:10]  They really do.
[00:12:11]  Their produce is excellent and all that, even though it's run by an oligarchy.
[00:12:15]  Not one thing, James.
[00:12:16]  Is there something to this?
[00:12:18]  Not an employee with a Pride badge, not a flag, not a mention, not a you could donate to the chemical castration of a poor kid in Mississippi poster.
[00:12:27]  What's going on here?
[00:12:29]  Well, that's interesting.
[00:12:31]  That's a really interesting feature of reality today, Charlie, because it seems like, you know, it's everywhere, but then there's certain places it's not, which we see what happens where it's everywhere, right?
[00:12:43]  Like but lights getting crushed, targets getting crushed.
[00:12:48]  Target is a competitor to places like these.
[00:12:50]  Target's getting crushed.
[00:12:51]  Amazon's not getting crushed.
[00:12:52]  Amazon's not doing this.
[00:12:54]  So you can kind of see that there's this game being played that may be pushing people towards certain vendors.
[00:13:01]  I would suggest that that's probably part of the strategy.
[00:13:03]  You know, let's create a kind of a hunger game situation for corporations, if you will.
[00:13:10]  Make corporations fight and say, well, if you want your ESG score, if you want your corporate equality index, then you have to do XYZ.
[00:13:17]  You have to put out this flag.
[00:13:18]  You have to put Dylan Mulvaney.
[00:13:19]  You have to do all this crazy stuff.
[00:13:21]  You have to alienate your customer base.
[00:13:22]  By the way, Amazon's not doing that.
[00:13:25]  Well, it's weird, right?
[00:13:26]  So you would think that one of the main kind of vessels for this woke virus, the delivery system, would be Amazon, right?
[00:13:35]  You would think so.
[00:13:36]  And in years past, I mean, headquartered in Seattle, all this, I'm on Amazon.com right now.
[00:13:40]  Again, we're not paid by Amazon, okay?
[00:13:42]  So they're going to get all these emails.
[00:13:43]  I don't see an iota of Pride anything, James.
[00:13:47]  And Google, of course, went all in, Super Trans.
[00:13:50]  I mean, not anything, not like here's your Pride deal, like wear your Pride thing.
[00:13:54]  You would not know it's June.
[00:13:56]  Is it conceivable that there was a top-down order from Amazon of knock it off?
[00:14:02]  Well, probably, but knock it off why is the question, right?
[00:14:06]  Because profits were in jeopardy because their stock price is not what they want it to be.
[00:14:10]  Well, that could be true.
[00:14:11]  It could also be we're crushing our competitor target right now, so let's just be the boring thing that doesn't offend anybody in the meantime while our competitor gets absolutely savaged by this thing.
[00:14:22]  Yeah, and so what you're trying to see is actual market forces like de-wokify the country.
[00:14:28]  Is that finally what we're seeing?
[00:14:29]  Oh, I don't think that that's the case.
[00:14:30]  I think we're seeing a game of large-scale corporate consolidation into the players that have been maybe ordained or chosen because they're already the big purveyors.
[00:14:39]  They're already in on the system.
[00:14:41]  On the other hand, though, we did see what was it, Starbucks kind of backing off a little bit.
[00:14:45]  Yes, and headquarters is saying, no, we didn't block Pride.
[00:14:48]  But I could tell you right now, the Scottsdale Starbucks that I walk by last year had the trans flag, the whole thing.
[00:14:53]  They have nothing in there.
[00:14:55]  Their employees are not wearing the buttons.
[00:14:56]  They're not doing any of it, James.
[00:14:58]  Well, I think last year was the last real Pride.
[00:15:00]  I think it actually, they went over the top.
[00:15:02]  They did the full blast drag queen thing.
[00:15:03]  I said this last year.
[00:15:04]  I looked it up on Twitter.
[00:15:05]  I actually said this is going to be the last Pride at June 30th.
[00:15:08]  I said, well, that's the end of the last Pride month.
[00:15:10]  And this month actually has been, as they say in Britain, a damp squib, a firework that got wet and didn't blow up.
[00:15:16]  They've really not gone as crazy as we might have predicted.
[00:15:20]  And we look at what just happened at Dodger Stadium.
[00:15:22]  That was a complete catastrophe for them.
[00:15:24]  So I think they realize, though, that America is getting very much done with this, and they've got a new environment to navigate.
[00:15:32]  So as the last Pride might have happened, what changed from June to June?
[00:15:38]  Did we get stronger?
[00:15:39]  Are we fighting better?
[00:15:40]  Are we isolating them for what they actually are?
[00:15:43]  I think that that is definitely true.
[00:15:45]  I think they also wore out their goodwill with the American people.
[00:15:48]  And every one of these movements depends on them having a cash of goodwill.

=== Wearing Out Public Goodwill (09:55) ===

[00:15:53]  And they spend it down.
[00:15:54]  Now it's virtually gone.
[00:15:56]  Yeah, they're in a debt with the American people.
[00:15:58]  And so I want to talk about this term groomers.
[00:16:01]  You like calling them groomers.
[00:16:02]  I've never seen a group of people lose their mind as much as when you isolate groomer, but you've actually read in the literature, initiation is actually part of.
[00:16:13]  Is it Marxist or whatever?
[00:16:15]  Queer theory.
[00:16:16]  Queer theory.
[00:16:19]  Look, it is time to consider a rollover of that 401k into an IRA.
[00:16:25]  The investment world is completely different in 2023, and you cannot do the same thing as last year.
[00:16:30]  Woke companies are aggressively implementing ESG.
[00:16:34]  Interest rates are going up and inflation is still lingering.
[00:16:37]  If you have over $150,000, now is the time to move your money to a biblical responsible investing strategy with my friends at PAX Financial Group.
[00:16:45]  Here's how you can connect with PAX.
[00:16:47]  Text Charlie to the number 74868.
[00:16:50]  That's it.
[00:16:50]  Just take out your phone.
[00:16:51]  Text Charlie, C-H-A-R-L-I-E to 74868.
[00:16:59]  So take out your phone.
[00:17:00]  Text Charlie to the number 74868 for biblical responsible investing.
[00:17:05]  Text Charlie to 74868.
[00:17:11]  Dr. James Lindsay continues with us.
[00:17:14]  So, so, James, you and I were talking in the break.
[00:17:17]  How do we win?
[00:17:17]  How do we beat these people?
[00:17:19]  The Marxists, one of the ways is mockery.
[00:17:21]  Yeah.
[00:17:22]  Why?
[00:17:22]  Well, they don't like to be made fun of, Charlie.
[00:17:25]  It actually, they put themselves on a pedestal that they're better than us.
[00:17:28]  You and I have talked in the past.
[00:17:29]  I don't want to get too heady that they're kind of elite, elect Gnostic geniuses.
[00:17:34]  They know you don't know.
[00:17:35]  That's the basic principle.
[00:17:36]  They know the secrets of the universe, so they get to be in charge.
[00:17:38]  They're the stakeholders.
[00:17:39]  Believe the experts, blah, blah, blah.
[00:17:41]  So if you make fun of them, this pomp that they've given themselves, this pedestal they've placed themselves on, they fall off of it.
[00:17:47]  That's one huge reason why mockery is so powerful.
[00:17:51]  They have to look important.
[00:17:52]  They have to look serious.
[00:17:53]  They have to look like they have the grandest, smartest ideas.
[00:17:56]  And if you just kind of point at that and you make one of those memes with like, you know, the bell curve with their stupid argument at the top and the smart guy, the Jedi and the moron agreeing, no, they're just grooming kids, you know, it cuts right through all of their pomposity.
[00:18:11]  Secondly, though, when you can teach people to laugh, if you want to get people over, you know, if they say somebody's doing something like being woke or being racist or something like this, it's, you know, generally shameful.
[00:18:22]  They're not going to come out and just like admit that they were wrong.
[00:18:27]  But if you can get them to laugh at themselves and laugh about it and laugh with other people about it, when comedy is a vehicle for this, they'll overcome those prejudices and biases.
[00:18:36]  They can let their mistakes go.
[00:18:38]  It's a kind of a non-religious pathway and a very light pathway to looking for kind of self-forgiveness.
[00:18:43]  And I think it's extremely valuable because imagine being caught up in woke and all of a sudden you have to come and like come clean with yourself.
[00:18:50]  It's really going to be hard to admit, wow, I got sucked into thinking that cutting the genitals off of kids was a good idea.
[00:18:55]  That's going to be hard to just confess, but you start making fun of it and you can kind of let it slide into your past, reckon with it on your own.
[00:19:02]  And if we can learn to laugh and joke about these things, as a population, I mean, they have nothing to stand on because people will forgive themselves for the guilt and shame cycles that they keep themselves in.
[00:19:11]  They thrive on moral superiority when it's really moral depravity and they take themselves so unbelievably serious.
[00:19:17]  I'm talking about the woke intelligentsia.
[00:19:19]  That's right.
[00:19:19]  And humor mockery is incredibly effective to build consensus to delegitimize their institutional power.
[00:19:29]  I mean, I go around and I talk about all of the crazy, scary words Klaus Schwab has said.
[00:19:34]  You know, he points out we're going to move from an economy of production and consumption to an economy of caring and sharing.
[00:19:40]  And you're like, oh my God, that's communism, right?
[00:19:42]  And people are kind of like, what?
[00:19:44]  But then you say he wears a spacesuit, and people just lose it, and all of a sudden he's not a serious character anymore.
[00:19:50]  And it's really funny.
[00:19:52]  We make the meme of him wearing the spacesuit, saying crazy things.
[00:19:54]  That goes viral.
[00:19:56]  And all of a sudden, his authority is cut out from under him.
[00:19:59]  It pierces the zeitgeist far more effectively.
[00:20:03]  And there's a reason why Stalin and totalitarians lock up comedians.
[00:20:08]  Yeah.
[00:20:09]  Because they could build consensus and weaken your regime.
[00:20:13]  I mean, they can tell truth while getting you to laugh so you'll accept the truth and you don't get caught again in that shame.
[00:20:18]  You don't get caught.
[00:20:20]  It looks like you're not calling somebody out, as the phrase goes in Wokeland.
[00:20:25]  And it's this kind of soft way to deliver truth, but that gets it in.
[00:20:29]  This is going to be the pride flag in 2030, James.
[00:20:31]  Did you see this?
[00:20:32]  What do we got here?
[00:20:33]  You see?
[00:20:34]  Put it up.
[00:20:35]  Oh, yeah.
[00:20:38]  Created by Microsoft.
[00:20:40]  Every single...
[00:20:41]  That's not enough identities, though, James.
[00:20:43]  No, it's not.
[00:20:44]  So there's something to that.
[00:20:45]  Let's dive into the philosophy of it.
[00:20:46]  Why is it that the pride flag constantly has to be changing?
[00:20:50]  Well, first of all, that is the progress flag.
[00:20:53]  So the name tells you why.
[00:20:55]  They've moved from pride to holistic.
[00:20:57]  Is that correct?
[00:20:57]  Yeah, that is technically.
[00:20:59]  When did that change?
[00:21:00]  I don't know, a year or two ago is when I stumbled on it.
[00:21:02]  Who knows?
[00:21:02]  So when they started to do, you know, so it's like a colonizer's flag as it is.
[00:21:06]  And now the colonizer's flag is being colonized by this angry triangle moving in from the side.
[00:21:11]  But it represents, in their own words, progress.
[00:21:14]  Well, progress doesn't end, or more technically, the dialectic doesn't end.
[00:21:19]  So that's how the dialectic progresses is, well, we've got to look at this next more granular issue.
[00:21:23]  We've got to look at this next more granular issue.
[00:21:24]  How does it mix when you're demi-romantic, but you're asexual?
[00:21:28]  What does that mean?
[00:21:28]  And so this becomes its own secret identity.
[00:21:31]  And so, well, we need three more colors for that.
[00:21:34]  And there's no bottom to this because, first of all, it's all made up.
[00:21:37]  Second of all, it's narcissistic self-exploration.
[00:21:41]  And so as widely variable as personalities can be, there's going to have to be colors for everything.
[00:21:48]  So I wrote this when I was studying Leviticus the other day, which it came to me about kind of democratized scripture for all of humanity, that the left thrives on secret society language written in a way only their people can understand.
[00:22:02]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:22:03]  Why is that significant, what I just said?
[00:22:05]  Well, there's a lot of things that are valuable to that, but it allows you to signal to other people that you're talking the lingo.
[00:22:12]  It allows you to say things out loud, kind of like, you know, H.G. Wells had the open conspiracy was the title of his book.
[00:22:18]  Well, you can do an open conspiracy.
[00:22:19]  We can sit here and talk.
[00:22:20]  And if I'm talking in what the left always says, it's dog whistles.
[00:22:23]  If I'm talking in code, then I can say things to you that you and I know what they mean, but everybody else doesn't know.
[00:22:28]  So it looks innocuous, but actually contains an agenda.
[00:22:32]  And that can be easily weaponized in policy.
[00:22:34]  I can say, hey, I just wanted to say we should acknowledge diversity in this policy document.
[00:22:39]  And I think we just acknowledge it.
[00:22:41]  But I mean something really specific, which means you have to have training and critical race theory.
[00:22:46]  Or the gnosis.
[00:22:47]  Yeah, well, the gnosis.
[00:22:48]  That's right.
[00:22:48]  The secret mind.
[00:22:49]  That's right.
[00:22:50]  Be able to understand.
[00:22:51]  Otherwise, I'm not going to take you seriously.
[00:22:53]  Right.
[00:22:53]  Well, I mean, that's what Gnosis is about, is that you know the secret meaning beyond the regular meaning.
[00:22:58]  I just came across a thing the other day, and it's talking about, you know, this is talking about bringing the sustainable development goals into people at the next level.
[00:23:07]  And it's talking about this eight-stage process.
[00:23:10]  It's called the human dignity score or the dignity index.
[00:23:13]  It's called the dignity index from Unite Ed, which is United, which is spelled, but it's Tim Shriver's project to push into education, to bring spirituality to the menu.
[00:23:23]  We went to MSLDC this morning.
[00:23:25]  Education.
[00:23:25]  And so they have this dignity score.
[00:23:28]  And you look down and it's like score of one is like this really horrible stuff.
[00:23:31]  Everybody's prejudiced.
[00:23:32]  Score of five is all men are created equal and so on.
[00:23:35]  Then there's three more levels where it's you never disagree with anybody or whatever.
[00:23:39]  You know, honor everybody's personality and whatever they say at level seven or eight.
[00:23:42]  And so, what you see, though, is that the true theme of truth and equality and, you know, a fair and equal society is level five, but they've got three more levels.
[00:23:54]  They know the secret sauce to get past, say, the American experiment and take it into some brave new world.
[00:24:00]  So, that is exactly why they use coded language is because they secretly know the secret meaning that the Constitution contained.
[00:24:09]  They know the secret meaning that the Bible contained.
[00:24:11]  They know the secret meaning, and you don't.
[00:24:13]  So, you can confirm more powerful.
[00:24:15]  Yeah, so what they'll do is they'll point to people and say, Look, level five, this is what you think is being a really good person.
[00:24:21]  This is human dignity, but there's three more levels past that.
[00:24:24]  Did you know?
[00:24:24]  Come join our cult.
[00:24:25]  We'll teach you level six.
[00:24:26]  This is how cults operate.
[00:24:27]  This is how cults operate.
[00:24:29]  And this is how all of their stuff works.
[00:24:31]  We know, you know, the Bible.
[00:24:32]  You know the Bible really well.
[00:24:33]  Well, did you know that in such and such there's this meaning?
[00:24:35]  There's this other meaning to the Jonah story.
[00:24:38]  Come here, I'll tell you.
[00:24:39]  We know your thing a little better than you do.
[00:24:41]  And the reason, but you don't know it.
[00:24:42]  You have to pay a tithe or give us your time in order to get to that secret.
[00:24:47]  And you can't trust your priest or your pastor or your religious leader or yourself because they don't want you to know it because they are keeping you down.
[00:24:55]  The American system is keeping you down.
[00:24:56]  Just talking practically, the proliferation of the widespread reading of the scriptures was a challenge to secret gnosis.
[00:25:05]  Yeah, of course.
[00:25:06]  Of course, it is.
[00:25:07]  If you can read the scripture press, if you will.
[00:25:09]  Yeah.
[00:25:10]  If everybody can read the scriptures in their own vernacular language, by the way, speaking of something that was a capital crime, they killed people for printing Bibles in languages people could read.
[00:25:18]  They killed Tyndale for translating the Bible.
[00:25:21]  They did.
[00:25:21]  In the early 1600s.
[00:25:23]  And so this was a death sentence to do this because they didn't want people to be able to read and find out for themselves.
[00:25:30]  You know, I don't think it says that.
[00:25:32]  And this is what Martin Luther is very famous for having noticed.
[00:25:35]  It doesn't say some of the things.
[00:25:37]  And then Martin Luther got caught up in his own thing.
[00:25:39]  By the end, you know, there's this fight about baptism.
[00:25:41]  And he says, well, somebody came to him and said, well, I don't think it says this.
[00:25:44]  And so what did they do with him?
[00:25:45]  Martin Luther was like, ah, and threw him in a well and left him to die there.

=== Rogan Hotez Meltdown Debate (09:16) ===

[00:25:48]  So this tendency, which is the desire for power, can corrupt you in this way.
[00:25:54]  And then you have your secret understanding of things.
[00:25:57]  So even the guy that saw the corruption in the late Catholic church, late medieval Catholic church, couldn't resist the temptation for the corruption himself when he had the power.
[00:26:08]  So we have this secret gnosis or mind.
[00:26:11]  You can call them philosopher kings, the credentialed class.
[00:26:15]  And you must have the certificate from their club.
[00:26:19]  Otherwise, you cannot mention.
[00:26:21]  That's right.
[00:26:22]  But if you do not think in the orthodoxy of the club, then we're going to destroy you.
[00:26:27]  These are class defectors or academic, like you're an academic defector, right?
[00:26:32]  That's right.
[00:26:32]  You have the credential, but you don't share the orthodoxy.
[00:26:35]  Right.
[00:26:35]  And that's what we just saw from this Victor She, sure.
[00:26:38]  I don't know how I pronounce his name, this Democrat.
[00:26:41]  He's like 19 or something.
[00:26:42]  This young Democrat operative.
[00:26:44]  He's big on Twitter.
[00:26:45]  He came out of nowhere, probably just straight up a psyops.
[00:26:48]  Probably a Fed, right?
[00:26:49]  Yeah.
[00:26:49]  And so this guy is like going off about this Joe Rogan, Peter Hotez, you know, meltdown that's going on.
[00:26:56]  I call it the Hotez meltdown, as a matter of fact.
[00:26:58]  And I have a mug of Peter Hotez mug.
[00:27:00]  It says Hotez Mad on it and a picture of him looking really angry.
[00:27:03]  And the other side says, fuel your anger.
[00:27:04]  That's the mockery we have.
[00:27:05]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:27:06]  And so I have this, I literally got a custom mug.
[00:27:09]  But he says, well, we have these fools like Joe Rogan that don't have degrees, RFK, he's a conspiracy theorist.
[00:27:16]  We don't listen to them.
[00:27:17]  We need to listen to the people, the MDs, the doctors, the people.
[00:27:20]  The hypnosis stuff.
[00:27:21]  Exactly.
[00:27:21]  And then in this next tweet, though, he's like, well, there are people with PhDs that are saying the other stuff, but we don't listen to them.
[00:27:26]  And so that means they get to arbitrarily decide.
[00:27:28]  Yes, that's exactly right and who doesn't.
[00:27:31]  When you layer a society not on wisdom or practical judgment, prudence or temperance, the great classical virtues, and instead you order society on credentialing, then you get to decide who gets to speak.
[00:27:44]  Now, yes, if you have a PhD in mathematics and we're talking about quantum theory, I'm going to take what you say very seriously, unless it's bunk.
[00:27:52]  Yeah, well, if I come out here and tell you that like four plus five is six, you can correct me, even though I have a PhD.
[00:27:58]  At the same time, there has been unspeakable terror done to humanity by people with PhDs that were unchecked by the common ordinary person.
[00:28:07]  Like lobotomies.
[00:28:09]  Well, yeah.
[00:28:09]  Just one that comes to mind.
[00:28:11]  Gender-affirming care.
[00:28:12]  Or concentration camps or euthanasia.
[00:28:15]  Frustrated academics are the most dangerous people in the universe.
[00:28:19]  You put that on a bumper sticker.
[00:28:21]  Frustrated academics are the most dangerous people in the universe.
[00:28:25]  They know a lot of facts.
[00:28:27]  They might have a lot of knowledge, but they don't have a lot of wisdom.
[00:28:30]  And they don't know what is good or evil.
[00:28:32]  They don't even believe in such things.
[00:28:33]  I'm just in charge because I'm an academic.
[00:28:35]  Who is this, Dr. Hotez?
[00:28:37]  So, Peter Hotez is a, well, he's a big vaccine, COVID pusher.
[00:28:41]  The vaccine peddler, right?
[00:28:43]  He is one of the biggest peddlers.
[00:28:44]  He works in Houston at one of these medical centers down there, Texas Children's Hospital.
[00:28:49]  Yeah, I've forgotten all of his other details, some tropical something or another with viruses.
[00:28:53]  But he is one of the biggest COVID vaccine peddlers.
[00:28:57]  And so RFK just went on.
[00:28:58]  Rogan is why he's suddenly famous.
[00:29:00]  And RFK said a bunch of RFK stuff about the vaccines.
[00:29:04]  And so Hotez goes after it on Twitter.
[00:29:06]  So Rogan's like, was Hotez mentioned in the episode?
[00:29:09]  I haven't listened to him.
[00:29:10]  I don't think so.
[00:29:10]  I haven't listened either.
[00:29:11]  So he just imparted himself.
[00:29:13]  Well, he went on Twitter and was like, this guy's a crank.
[00:29:15]  RFK is a conspiracy theorist.
[00:29:16]  This is blah, blah, blah.
[00:29:17]  And so Joe was like, come debate him and I'll throw $100,000 at charity.
[00:29:21]  And now it's like over $1.5 million or something like this.
[00:29:24]  No, this guy's kind of become a meme of himself.
[00:29:25]  By the way, if you've seen a picture of him, he's the whole character of the bow tie, the whole thing.
[00:29:30]  It's out of control.
[00:29:31]  RFK Jr. goes on Rogan, who I really like Rogan, and then he comments on Twitter.
[00:29:37]  But let's actually go through this, James.
[00:29:39]  Okay.
[00:29:40]  In a broader, more macro sense.
[00:29:44]  The fact that you can have a podcast discussion between two dudes, not on CBS, ABC, or NBC, and then have a reaction on it on Twitter significantly move the zeitgeist and the national conversation.
[00:29:57]  That's not, that's not what happened a couple years ago.
[00:30:02]  We have a whole new way of challenging pre-existing orthodoxies now.
[00:30:06]  Well, I think that that's because for the last two, three years, people like us, if I might give us a little credit, have gone around, dedicated a lot of time and energy to trying to wake people up.
[00:30:15]  And the trust level that our society has for these experts is sort of abysmal, sort of bad.
[00:30:22]  Now, it wasn't people just like us, though.
[00:30:24]  I mean, the COVID thing was a catastrophe from the get-go.
[00:30:27]  People were starting to see through it quickly.
[00:30:29]  Pretty quick.
[00:30:30]  Pretty quick.
[00:30:30]  And it's just kind of, it's been this shambling, you know, I picture like a bus going down the street, pieces falling off the wheels.
[00:30:37]  This thing skidded to a halt a long time ago.
[00:30:40]  And people's trust in things like the CDC, FDA, public health in general.
[00:30:47]  It's all gone.
[00:30:48]  And it should be gone.
[00:30:49]  It should be gone.
[00:30:50]  We had a high trust society where we were so comfortable that we trusted things that took advantage of us.
[00:30:57]  And the trust was not earned.
[00:30:59]  Right.
[00:31:00]  That's right.
[00:31:00]  So one of my rules of thumb is the more power something has over me, the less I trust it.
[00:31:05]  They have to keep earning my trust.
[00:31:06]  Yes.
[00:31:07]  Continually earn.
[00:31:08]  They don't get it by.
[00:31:09]  You have to continually renew the trust.
[00:31:11]  That's right.
[00:31:12]  And when you make not just one misstep, but if they're missteps or not is a deeper question, but 500 errors from masks to lockdowns, kids in schools, so many errors that it's not possible that it was statistically random that they got the wrong answer to every single thing.
[00:31:30]  I believe one of the main, so I think the middle ground explanation, because most of our audience says, okay, they're evil and they wanted to abolish all of humanity.
[00:31:38]  All right, could be.
[00:31:39]  People try to do it before.
[00:31:40]  Some people say, oh, no, they just didn't mean well.
[00:31:42]  I think that is actually, there's a third explanation, James.
[00:31:45]  Okay.
[00:31:46]  When you are not studied in wisdom or in the ideas of right or wrong, you do not know how to answer the big questions.
[00:31:55]  So for example, CDC was posed with moral questions.
[00:31:59]  For example, should you lock down your young?
[00:32:03]  That's not a question for a scientist because their scientists are like, well, their question is we must stop the virus at all costs.
[00:32:09]  But then the question is the moral question, which is, well, childhood development actually matters a lot more than almost anything else.
[00:32:16]  Yeah, the weighing of two different.
[00:32:20]  But this is what the Roman emperors and the classics teach you, which is to be studied in the question of temperance and prudence and how do you balance one thing against the other.
[00:32:30]  Sure.
[00:32:31]  The different levels of ethics, as Aristotle would say.
[00:32:35]  And our leaders would say, but I'm just commanded to get rid of the virus.
[00:32:38]  And who's to at all costs?
[00:32:42]  That's why we know about ordinary men just doing my job.
[00:32:46]  We've got to get rid of this thing at all costs.
[00:32:47]  We've got to do this.
[00:32:48]  This is what the scientists said.
[00:32:49]  Of course, they unleashed a model, and the model doesn't make any sense.
[00:32:51]  They said everybody in the universe was going to die.
[00:32:54]  And they use this as justification.
[00:32:56]  Now, I think there are more cynical and present that found themselves in it, but the vast majority of people peddling it.
[00:33:02]  Sure.
[00:33:03]  Yeah.
[00:33:03]  But they're also following some of these people.
[00:33:05]  For example, Randy Weingarten was using closed schools as a bargaining chip to get a trillion dollars for the hostage situation.
[00:33:12]  That's right.
[00:33:12]  And to get Joe Biden elected.
[00:33:13]  And she said so.
[00:33:15]  So this isn't like I'm conspiring.
[00:33:17]  And Blue States did this as a way to get bailouts.
[00:33:19]  J.B. Pritzker and Gavin Newsom did it as a way to get a federal government bailout.
[00:33:22]  Huge amounts of money and all that printed money.
[00:33:23]  Now they get inflation.
[00:33:25]  So they have a new crisis.
[00:33:26]  They get to milk.
[00:33:26]  Yes.
[00:33:27]  Why do they always need a crisis?
[00:33:29]  Well, when you have a crisis, you can justify taking extraordinary steps, emergency powers or whatever it happens to be.
[00:33:35]  So a crisis freaks people out and you say, well, normally I wouldn't consent to this, but we're in a crisis.
[00:33:39]  Normally, I wouldn't run fleeing from my house and leave it unguarded, the door open, but it's on fire.
[00:33:45]  When there's a crisis, people allow for different behaviors.
[00:33:50]  That 30 seconds, what is one practical step we could take to weaken these people?
[00:33:56]  You already said it.
[00:33:56]  It's mockery.
[00:33:57]  Anything that lowers, you want to think generally, anything that lowers the public trust level in these people.
[00:34:03]  So mockery, exposing when they lie, exposing when they say they want to control us, exposing when they say that they want to force behaviors like Larry Fink did.
[00:34:11]  Get a lot of mileage out of playing that one little clip of Larry Fink over and over and over again.
[00:34:14]  Well, people have to have their behaviors forced.
[00:34:16]  They won't put women on their boards if we don't force them to, so we're going to force them to.
[00:34:20]  Any of this, anything that lowers that trust level, that raises the suspicion level and takes away the power of their fake credentials, I think is the key.
[00:34:30]  I feel as if we have a little bit of momentum right now, don't you?
[00:34:33]  We are gaining momentum.
[00:34:34]  We have to keep the pressure on everybody.
[00:34:36]  We are living.
[00:34:37]  I think truly, in the next 18 months, we could deliver a death blow of the woke.
[00:34:41]  We're not there yet.
[00:34:42]  Things have to fall in line, but we are at a place right now where these people are finally running for the hills.
[00:34:48]  James, we're out of time.
[00:34:49]  Thanks so much.
[00:34:50]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:34:51]  Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:34:55]  Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.
[00:34:57]  Okay, these ads, and then you can come in.
[00:35:01]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.