The Charlie Kirk Show - Anthony Fauci Rewrites History with Rich Baris and Alex Berenson
Aired: 2023-04-26
Duration: 37:01


=== Bernie's Disaster for Biden (14:51) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:00]  Today at the Charlie Kirk Show, Rich Barris discusses the Tucker departure and also 2024 polling.
[00:00:06]  Alex Berenson talks about Fauci's return to public life.
[00:00:10]  Email us your thoughts as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.
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[00:00:55]  Here we go.
[00:00:56]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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[00:01:39]  Joining us now is Rich Barris, who is from Big Data Polls.
[00:01:44]  Rich, welcome to the program.
[00:01:46]  Let's talk about Tucker's departure.
[00:01:48]  How do you believe this affects conservative media?
[00:01:54]  Let's play this out.
[00:01:55]  If Tucker remains off the airwaves through Election Day 2024, which seems to be a possibility due to contracts, how does that impact conservative media and the 2024 election?
[00:02:08]  I think it's indisputably a loss for the American right if Tucker stays off the air.
[00:02:14]  He was the lone voice, Charlie, that would not just, you know, for a long time, Fox News was the only outlet for the American right, but they were never fully on page with the energy of their party.
[00:02:29]  In fact, they opposed it quite a bit.
[00:02:31]  That's how Republicans ended up with Mitt Romney, right?
[00:02:35]  Tucker was different because Tucker, his rise was in part because of the rise of MAGA, but also because he had long held more libertarian that evolved into these views that are so widely shared by a part of the public that doesn't identify with Republicans, but agrees with them on wide issues.
[00:02:57]  Like, I don't want to go to war with Ukraine.
[00:02:59]  I don't want to go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
[00:03:02]  If, you know, I will help Ukraine, but if it means getting into a great power conflict, that's stupid.
[00:03:07]  And I don't want to do it.
[00:03:08]  All right.
[00:03:09]  Who did the January 6th footage go to?
[00:03:12]  There's just so much down the line during the pandemic.
[00:03:15]  Initially, he was pretty pro-lockdown, but he was one of the first nightly voices to come around.
[00:03:21]  And of course, he was in 2016, even before his rise, his big rise, he was someone who heard what was going on in the country.
[00:03:32]  So I think it's a massive blow.
[00:03:34]  There's a reason why he was the most watched APM prime time hour.
[00:03:39]  And it's a problem.
[00:03:41]  It's a problem for the right.
[00:03:43]  Yeah.
[00:03:43]  And so I'm trying to understand, you know, is there even possible for a replacement?
[00:03:51]  Do you think part of Tucker's power was in the 100 million homes he was able to get into, or is it Tucker himself?
[00:03:58]  Think he was able over seven years to build such a loyal audience that wherever he goes, he's going to take a lot of that audience with him.
[00:04:06]  Yeah, I think, you know, Fox didn't, you know, Fox needed Tucker.
[00:04:10]  I don't think Tucker needed Fox.
[00:04:12]  And I do think part of it is Tucker.
[00:04:14]  It's that, look, Charlie, staring into the camera when someone's saying something stupid, that Tucker, look, people, he had an appeal, still does, obviously, that people loved, but he also had built a record where people could appreciate and trust him.
[00:04:29]  So he would wade into these issues.
[00:04:30]  Nobody else, look, the Pentagon is celebrating in Politico today.
[00:04:35]  They ran to Politico and they're celebrating Tucker being off the air because of his critique of foreign policy and the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
[00:04:46]  There are also quietly, apparently, Republican lawmakers who are for instigation, escalation.
[00:04:54]  They're loving this.
[00:04:55]  So, I mean, that should tell us all we need to know.
[00:04:58]  Do you think Fox survives?
[00:05:01]  I think they have a major problem since 2015, which shouldn't shock anybody because of how they treated Donald Trump during the primary.
[00:05:11]  They took a hit in what's called the brand index and they never fully recovered.
[00:05:14]  They had some nice periods of happy times during the Trump administration because for a period there, what did they do?
[00:05:21]  They promoted Tucker.
[00:05:22]  They gave Laura Ingram more time.
[00:05:25]  And at that point, Hannity was pretty MAGA.
[00:05:28]  So they were riding high and Trump would call in the morning show on Mondays.
[00:05:32]  But if you take that little part out, Charlie, then you really have a pretty big, serious downward trend for Fox News.
[00:05:41]  And right now, they're appealing.
[00:05:42]  And you and I talk about this when it comes to elections all the time.
[00:05:45]  MAGA is young.
[00:05:47]  It's more diverse.
[00:05:49]  They're not watching Fox.
[00:05:50]  So to say this brutally and as blunt as I can, Fox's audience is going to die.
[00:05:56]  I mean, I don't know how they renew that loyalty.
[00:05:59]  I don't know how they find it.
[00:06:01]  And Tucker was pulling in that demo more than anything else.
[00:06:04]  So that let's talk.
[00:06:06]  I now want to talk about the 2024 election.
[00:06:08]  So, Rich, feel free to disagree.
[00:06:09]  I mean that.
[00:06:10]  I said yesterday Joe Biden is going to be hard to beat.
[00:06:12]  It's not about Joe Biden.
[00:06:14]  It's about a machine of ballot chasing, voter registration, billions of dollars of micro-targeted advertising.
[00:06:19]  And I just did a whole show the last hour about why the administrative state governmentally, from a policy perspective, likes Joe Biden.
[00:06:26]  Rich, I personally, I want to get away from polls.
[00:06:28]  I know that you do a lot of polls, but I think you would agree it's much more about ballot chasing and early voting operations and those sort of schematics.
[00:06:35]  Is that the way we should be thinking about 2024?
[00:06:39]  I couldn't agree more.
[00:06:40]  Yeah, I just couldn't agree more.
[00:06:41]  And this is why the number one question to me, because no matter who the Republican nominee is, Joe Biden is going to be extremely difficult.
[00:06:49]  I think it was very clear in 2022 that they did not give up.
[00:06:52]  This is like, I know a lot of Republicans think that this COVID ballot harvesting operation they had in 2020 was going to be temporary and that somehow that's not going to be that bad this time.
[00:07:02]  I think they're out of their minds and fooling themselves.
[00:07:05]  Democrats are going to turn out and they're going to turn out to vote for Joe Biden.
[00:07:09]  They're going to turn out because they have a machine to turn them out, because they're going to micro-target for ballots.
[00:07:14]  Because the voting window is so wide now, that doesn't require the physical work of getting human being A to polling place.
[00:07:24]  It just takes a piece of paper now into somebody's hands, which is illegal, but they do it anyway, or into a mailbox.
[00:07:30]  So they've basically shortened the logistical hurdle for the American Democrat Party.
[00:07:35]  And so, and then they have a 30-day window, and then they know in real time who is voting and who isn't.
[00:07:39]  Turnout is no longer really a thing, I think, anymore, Rich.
[00:07:42]  They're going to hit their benchmarks.
[00:07:44]  And if not, they'll just pour more money into it.
[00:07:46]  We saw it in Arizona.
[00:07:47]  When they were not hitting their benchmarks, they flew in 800 ballot chasers for Katie Hobbs.
[00:07:52]  And our strategy was like, well, I hope everyone shows up on election day.
[00:07:55]  It's not the way to victory.
[00:07:57]  That's right.
[00:07:58]  So no, Charlie, you and I are in total agreement with this.
[00:08:01]  Republicans, look, this is just my opinion.
[00:08:04]  Voters do what you're going to do, but Republicans fighting each other in a long, protracted primary is absolutely stupid.
[00:08:11]  It's that simple.
[00:08:12]  Yeah, so they don't know what they're up against.
[00:08:14]  A lab they don't understand.
[00:08:15]  So I call it.
[00:08:17]  Yeah, go keep going.
[00:08:17]  Fine.
[00:08:18]  I was just going to say they just don't understand what they're up against yet.
[00:08:22]  And I'm listening to some of these people talk about arguments, Charlie, like, oh, but this candidate will get these women in suburbs that don't like Trump.
[00:08:30]  And it's like, they are just like eight years too late.
[00:08:34]  You know, that's not what this is about anymore.
[00:08:36]  For me, the only way a Republican is going to beat Joe Biden, any Republican, is by having an appeal to a group of people that normally would not turn out for Republicans.
[00:08:48]  And then understanding that candidate has to understand that it's not just about persuasion anymore or galvanizing.
[00:08:55]  There needs to be infrastructure in place.
[00:08:58]  And I'm telling you right now, the argument about the suburban women, you're looking at nationally, maybe 6 million.
[00:09:06]  That's it, you know?
[00:09:07]  And this has been a problem for Republicans without Trump and before, actually.
[00:09:13]  This has been a downward trend in states like Arizona and Georgia for a while now.
[00:09:17]  So you need to inject a different voter into the electorate and you need to make sure you have the infrastructure to make it easy for them.
[00:09:24]  We actually went back and re-interviewed some people in Nevada.
[00:09:28]  Great example.
[00:09:29]  This guy who had said he was a Laxalt voter in Clark County, he said, and he still was a likely voter.
[00:09:36]  He had said he would vote for Laxalt if he voted and that he was likely, but not certain to vote, right?
[00:09:42]  And he had vote history.
[00:09:43]  So you got to include that voter.
[00:09:44]  He didn't go.
[00:09:45]  Yep.
[00:09:45]  Charlie.
[00:09:46]  He didn't vote.
[00:09:47]  And we called him back and we, you know, you're going to vote in 24?
[00:09:50]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:09:51]  And he's a Trump vote.
[00:09:53]  You know, absolutely.
[00:09:54]  And this is why the RNC is worthless, right?
[00:09:57]  They're completely worthless.
[00:09:58]  They had no early voting operation in Nevada.
[00:10:00]  They had no ballot chasing, but a lot of consultants made a lot of money on the grift.
[00:10:04]  We just call it the grift.
[00:10:05]  And it's an insult.
[00:10:07]  Adam Laxalt should be United States Senator.
[00:10:09]  You get 5,000 to 10,000 low-prop voters to go vote early in Washu, in Elko, Nevada, in Clark County.
[00:10:15]  You're trying to tell me those.
[00:10:16]  You just told me about one of them.
[00:10:17]  We know about a lot of them.
[00:10:18]  Producer Andrew is Mr. Nevada.
[00:10:20]  He was there.
[00:10:21]  And I'll tell you, a lot of these people they're not communicated with.
[00:10:23]  Meanwhile, Cortez Masto and these Democrats were going door to door, ballot chasing, ballot harvesting.
[00:10:29]  And our side said, oh, no, everyone show up on election day.
[00:10:32]  We will lose the country and lose every election with that mentality.
[00:10:36]  I'm calling for an end of the Republican primary.
[00:10:38]  It's over.
[00:10:39]  It's done.
[00:10:39]  Now, of course, you got to go through the motions, but everyone else should drop out.
[00:10:42]  We should put all of our money in a ballot chasing, ballot harvesting.
[00:10:45]  Trump is going to win either by 50 or by 15 or by 20.
[00:10:49]  You might hate that, but you know what?
[00:10:51]  I hope you hate more?
[00:10:52]  Joe Biden getting another four years because that's the likely scenario right now.
[00:10:59]  Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.
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[00:12:02]  So, Rich, let's build this out a little bit more.
[00:12:04]  Looking at this completely objectively, Rich, I want you to walk through the downside of a long, expensive Republican primary.
[00:12:13]  Because we have Nikki Haley, Asa Hutchinson, you know, potentially Ron DeSantis, who does look like he's going to run.
[00:12:20]  So, it's safe to assume there's at least $200 million of F you money out there that donors are going to spend because they personally don't like Donald Trump on the right.
[00:12:31]  I know some of these donors, you know some of these donors.
[00:12:33]  I'm not going to say their names, okay?
[00:12:35]  They donate to some good things and to some bad things, but they really hate Trump, right?
[00:12:39]  A lot of them are in Palm Beach.
[00:12:40]  A lot of them are in Aspen.
[00:12:41]  A lot of them are in Big Sky, and a lot of them are in New York, right?
[00:12:44]  $200 million, right, that they're going to do is F you money.
[00:12:48]  And they say, I don't care.
[00:12:49]  It's just out of principle.
[00:12:50]  I'm going to spend the money because I hate Trump.
[00:12:53]  Walk us through analytically and objectively why that is a bad thing if we want to win the White House in 2024.
[00:13:02]  So there are historical considerations, and then there's the new, which is what we have been talking about, which is that things have changed now.
[00:13:10]  It's, you know, people used to say things like, well, having a competitive primary is a good thing and it'll make the candidate that emerges ultimately stronger.
[00:13:20]  That never really has been true, especially when it comes to incumbents.
[00:13:24]  And I actually think that in this situation, you would consider Donald Trump an incumbent almost, because the bottom line, Charlie, this is why the DNC is keeping everybody off the debate stage.
[00:13:35]  This is why they're moving South Carolina before Iowa and New Hampshire.
[00:13:39]  History, whether it's Herbert Walker or Bush, whether it's Jimmy Carter, when there's a known candidate, a known president, and they are run through the primary, they're run through the ringer, and they're battered by their opponents, making attack lines that are going to be used later.
[00:13:52]  They are weakened by it and they lose.
[00:13:54]  Everybody in my business knows that.
[00:13:56]  Primaries are not good unless you have a slate of new candidates.
[00:14:01]  That's the only time when they'll emerge.
[00:14:03]  And that's, by the way, Hillary Clinton, it didn't work out for her in 08, right?
[00:14:07]  So, and it didn't again in 16, when she was a known quantity, a known candidate, and Bernie beat her up a bit.
[00:14:13]  And then a huge chunk of Bernie's voters actually voted for Donald Trump and it cost her Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.
[00:14:19]  So that's number one.
[00:14:20]  Number two, this operation that we're talking about is going to cost a fortune.
[00:14:26]  The only and that, and it's, and it needs to start now.
[00:14:29]  It can't be in, there's not enough time.
[00:14:32]  It's half a billion dollars minimum in three states.
[00:14:37]  Yeah, minimum, minimum, Charlie, because wouldn't it be great if we had time, if we started now to really go into other states to give us some cushion, to give us some a little bit more effort?
[00:14:47]  When Democrats did this in 20, they started months before.

=== Billion Dollar Primary Fight (02:42) ===

[00:14:52]  That was the whole point of why the primary that Bernie was losing, I mean, that Bernie was winning turned out to be such a disaster for them because they really had started to put some of this stuff in place for Joe Biden before.
[00:15:04]  And it took them, they have unions, the right does not.
[00:15:07]  So there's a lot of organizational concerns that the right needs to address now.
[00:15:12]  And they need to, you know, there's just not enough time after a primary is over to pivot to a general.
[00:15:19]  So let's say we have this $200 million super PAC war chest of just any candidate but Trump, right?
[00:15:25]  30 million here, 10 million here, because billionaires are richer than ever.
[00:15:28]  The oligarchy has had a really good run, right, in the last five years.
[00:15:32]  A lot of cheap money flows upwards, right?
[00:15:35]  It goes upwards.
[00:15:36]  Those streams go up.
[00:15:37]  And so these billionaires are going to say, okay, I'm going to spend this money.
[00:15:40]  So, Rich, even though Trump is going to win, what does that do for Trump's name idea in these states?
[00:15:45]  What does that do for, you know, and by the way, that's money that can't then be spent, right?
[00:15:52]  And by the way, it could be more than 200 million.
[00:15:54]  This could end up being a $500 million primary because you're talking about some of these donors that have serious FU money that are just going to say, like, yeah, you know, I hate Trump, $250 million.
[00:16:05]  I'm going to put $250 million into a super PAC because I hate Trump that much.
[00:16:08]  That's Republican on Republican-friendly fire.
[00:16:12]  Rich, we could be in a place where we could be having to like tie up the primary a year from now in delegate counting in March and April.
[00:16:19]  We're like, well, this is a waste of time.
[00:16:20]  Meanwhile, Democrats will be chasing ballots and registering voters and running negative ads on Republicans fearmongering for nine months straight.
[00:16:28]  The only one who wins, the only people who win through a bitter primary on the Republican side is the Griff.
[00:16:35]  You know, if I lump them all up into one category, it's called what you're calling it, the Griff.
[00:16:40]  The consultants who feel like, and that's another part of this, Charlie, they want this fight, not the voters necessarily.
[00:16:46]  They want it.
[00:16:47]  They want to convince the voters to have it because they're out.
[00:16:50]  They're out right now.
[00:16:51]  They're not making the money that they would make without Donald Trump.
[00:16:55]  So you have the consultants, you have, frankly, politicians who are looking out for themselves before the party and its ability to beat Joe Biden in 2024.
[00:17:05]  And if they don't, it's because they put all of those selfish concerns first.
[00:17:10]  It really is that simple.
[00:17:12]  You know, I mean, that's, I don't know how else to put it.
[00:17:14]  He should be beaten.
[00:17:15]  And they had plenty of time to put together this infrastructure.
[00:17:18]  They got to start putting that before they, you know, put their own concerns and access, you know, questions about access, you know, ahead of what it takes to win.
[00:17:27]  Thanks so much, Rich.
[00:17:28]  Appreciate it.
[00:17:28]  All the best.
[00:17:32]  Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

=== Selfish Concerns Over Solutions (14:40) ===

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[00:18:34]  Joining us now is the great Alex Berenson.
[00:18:37]  I'm a little disappointed in a weird background here, I know, but hopefully it's okay.
[00:18:42]  No worries, Alex.
[00:18:43]  I always enjoyed seeing you on Tucker.
[00:18:44]  So I'm sad that that venue is no longer there for you, but you're always welcome here.
[00:18:49]  So you do a wonderful job.
[00:18:50]  You could check out his sub stack, Unreported Truth Substack.
[00:18:53]  So, Alex, you got to wonder why all of a sudden is Fauci back on a media tour?
[00:18:57]  Is there something coming?
[00:18:58]  Usually, this stuff isn't out of nowhere.
[00:19:01]  Am I speculating too much?
[00:19:03]  Is this, it seems communicating.
[00:19:05]  It could be something as simple as a book deal.
[00:19:08]  And he's, you know, that he's got, you know, a couple offers out there and he wants a couple million dollars extra.
[00:19:15]  You know, it made me sad to read the comments that were posted at the bottom of the New York Times interview with him.
[00:19:21]  I mean, the interview itself was his usual, you know, nonsense and lies, but all these people on the left, they just, they don't get it.
[00:19:29]  They think, I mean, they still believe in him.
[00:19:34]  It's amazing to me that, you know, we're three years into this.
[00:19:38]  Basically, governments have given up on the vaccines.
[00:19:41]  Companies have given up on the vaccines.
[00:19:45]  I shouldn't say companies, but governments have certainly given up on the vaccines.
[00:19:48]  People have given up on the vaccines.
[00:19:49]  But if you read the New York Times, these people, there's this hard group of 20 or 30% of the United States that believes that without Fauci, we all would be dead.
[00:20:00]  And without the vaccines, we all would be dead.
[00:20:02]  I mean, he said so many crazy things in that interview, but the craziest thing he said was that he thought the vaccines had saved 5 million lives in the United States.
[00:20:10]  Unbelievable.
[00:20:12]  It's just made up out of thin air.
[00:20:13]  I mean, it's.
[00:20:15]  And so it might be, it might be a book deal, or it could be that there's some sort of negative new.
[00:20:20]  I mean, I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but sometimes when you see these profile pieces, at least this was the case with Andy McCabe, and this was the piece with Peter with Peter Strzok.
[00:20:29]  They're trying to get ahead of something.
[00:20:30]  But maybe I'm out here.
[00:20:32]  It could be just be pure narcissism, which is to be expected from him.
[00:20:36]  So I want to play a couple pieces of tape here because now he's back on a media tour out of nowhere.
[00:20:40]  He's crawled out of his hole with Caitlin Collins.
[00:20:43]  This is an amazing one, Alex, because it involves you, right?
[00:20:46]  And so Cut 49, Fauci says that America has a free spirit and they don't want to be told what to do.
[00:20:52]  And we need to do a better job of convincing.
[00:20:54]  They were never in the business of convincing, Alex.
[00:20:57]  They never wanted to talk to us.
[00:20:59]  They censored you.
[00:21:00]  They censored me.
[00:21:01]  They've not in the business of convincing.
[00:21:03]  They use the hammer to shut us up.
[00:21:06]  Play Cut 49.
[00:21:08]  You know, Caitlin, I don't want to say a mistake, but I think we really need to remember next time we're confronted with this, that when you have a situation where there's doubt in the minds of some people about whether something works or not, we better try to reach out and be a better explainer of why we feel these things are important.
[00:21:28]  Because whenever, particularly in our country with our free spirit, which we all embrace, that people being told what to do very often has the opposite effect.
[00:21:38]  That's what I was referring to in that interview.
[00:21:40]  Yeah, you said I said, I mean, Alex, we all embrace the free spirit.
[00:21:45]  I can't stand this guy.
[00:21:46]  Okay.
[00:21:47]  I mean, from look, the reason people stopped taking the vaccines is because the vaccines fail.
[00:21:54]  Okay.
[00:21:55]  This idea that there's this huge anti-vaccine hesitancy in the United States, it's a lie.
[00:22:01]  Okay.
[00:22:01]  Look at the data about childhood vaccines in the United States in the last 10 years.
[00:22:06]  Okay.
[00:22:07]  I mean, I'm talking pre-COVID.
[00:22:08]  I'm talking pre-the mRNA debacle.
[00:22:10]  Okay.
[00:22:11]  Most people got their kids vaccinated.
[00:22:14]  Yeah, there were places, and frankly, those places were mostly on the left where, you know, people had questions about, let's say, the MMR vaccine.
[00:22:22]  But for the most part, people listened.
[00:22:24]  Okay.
[00:22:25]  The reason people didn't want to take these vaccines.
[00:22:29]  And by the way, if you look at data on people over 65, there's very, actually very little difference between the United States and Europe in people over 65 on the mRNA vaccines, the COVID vaccines, even, I mean.
[00:22:43]  Okay.
[00:22:44]  The difference is that Americans heard from me and heard from you and heard from Tucker.
[00:22:50]  And some younger people realized this is probably not in our interest.
[00:22:53]  This doesn't, you know, this, this COVID is just not that dangerous for us.
[00:22:57]  And frankly, I don't think I'm going to be protected from it even with the vaccine.
[00:23:01]  I don't think I'm going to be protected from passing it to somebody else.
[00:23:04]  These people, Coney Fauci in particular, but all of them, instead of early on saying, you know what, we're going to target this at the people who might actually benefit from it.
[00:23:14]  And we're going to let everybody else make their own decision about it, decided it became a fight.
[00:23:19]  It became, we're going to shove this down your throat.
[00:23:22]  And one of the reasons they got to that place was because they had scared so many of those New York Times readers, those 40-year-olds living in Brooklyn who hadn't let their kids out of their apartments for a year.
[00:23:33]  They had to have some solution.
[00:23:34]  And this vaccine was going to be the magic solution.
[00:23:37]  And the fact that people like me and you were raising questions about it, they couldn't have that.
[00:23:42]  So that's what happened.
[00:23:44]  But I will say one other thing.
[00:23:45]  Okay.
[00:23:46]  There are two arguments here, right?
[00:23:47]  There's a philosophical argument.
[00:23:48]  And even if the vaccine had been completely effective and had no side effects, it would have been wrong to force healthy adults to take that.
[00:23:56]  Okay.
[00:23:57]  It's not right to make people, to take away people's medical autonomy.
[00:24:02]  That's a core American, a core Western value.
[00:24:05]  The fact that the vaccines don't work and may be dangerous are the icing on this, you know, Wano case.
[00:24:12]  Yeah.
[00:24:12]  And it's so frustrating, Alex, because there's this whole. component that is still ignored and was ignored, which is, is there any treatment that might be able to reduce the hostility of the virus against your body?
[00:24:28]  Is there any, I mean, maybe, maybe not, maybe ivermectin, maybe hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D levels.
[00:24:32]  That's an interesting one, right?
[00:24:34]  Maybe if you have a really low vitamin D level.
[00:24:36]  So Alex, that is still ignored in the telling of this history.
[00:24:42]  Well, it's funny.
[00:24:43]  I mean, people get mad at me.
[00:24:44]  Paxlovid actually does work.
[00:24:46]  There's good clinical trial data on that.
[00:24:48]  But, you know, you're right about the bigger question here, which is Tony Fauci in the 1980s wanted an HIV vaccine.
[00:24:55]  And it was only actually when really the gay community, gay activists came to him and said, you're killing us.
[00:25:01]  Find us some drugs that work.
[00:25:04]  That's what made HIV treatable.
[00:25:06]  Okay.
[00:25:07]  It wasn't Fauci.
[00:25:08]  Fauci was lucky.
[00:25:09]  People pushed him into doing the right thing.
[00:25:11]  And, you know, 35 years later, he made exactly the same mistake.
[00:25:16]  He wanted vaccines for a, for, in this case, for a respiratory virus that you basically can't really treat with vaccines or prevent with vaccines instead of good treatments.
[00:25:25]  You are exactly right, Charlie.
[00:25:27]  And, you know, the problem is the people who were telling him this, we, you know, we weren't sympathetic to the media in the same way that, you know, gay activists were sympathetic to the media or the media was sympathetic to them in 1989.
[00:25:40]  And so we got demonized for really trying to get him to look the right way.
[00:25:46]  So, and we have here, we're pulling the advertisement.
[00:25:49]  I personally get really triggered when I see these Paxlovid ads, not because of the efficacy or not efficacy.
[00:25:55]  I'm not an expert on that, but the fact that now we're allowed to talk about treatments, like, oh, really?
[00:25:59]  After you've mandated the vaccine, I mean, again, I know for certain that, hey, if we would have had a national thing, say, hey, if you lose 10 pounds, you're going to have a better shot of surviving this virus.
[00:26:09]  If you go for a walk outside, if you get some vitamin D exposure, get your vitamin D level above 50, right?
[00:26:14]  Vitamin D is abundant, not just in the sky, but all throughout Walgreens and CBS.
[00:26:19]  I mean, you could just, you could supplement it.
[00:26:21]  It's also really good for your bones.
[00:26:22]  It's super cheap.
[00:26:23]  I mean, and not to mention maybe baby aspirin can help, right?
[00:26:26]  Alex, it's just we never were able to even have a conversation about it.
[00:26:30]  Well, I mean, the first thing Tony Fauci pushed was remdesivir.
[00:26:34]  Now, remdesivir does not work.
[00:26:36]  And it's savage on your body, too.
[00:26:37]  Remdesivir.
[00:26:39]  Yes.
[00:26:40]  That's exactly correct.
[00:26:41]  So, you know, why did the U.S. have worse outcomes than Europe?
[00:26:44]  By the way, we didn't have much worse outcomes, but we did overall have worse outcomes than Europe.
[00:26:48]  You're exactly correct.
[00:26:49]  It's not because of vaccine differences.
[00:26:52]  It's because we're an unhealthier population, unfortunately.
[00:26:54]  We're more obese.
[00:26:56]  We don't exercise as much.
[00:26:57]  We don't eat in the same, you know, they eat more healthily in Europe.
[00:27:02]  Those are the things we should have been talking about.
[00:27:04]  Instead, Tony Fauci and the public health establishment locked people, including kids, in their houses for a year, made them more depressed, made them fatter.
[00:27:13]  Yeah, of course we had terrible outcomes from this.
[00:27:15]  Yeah, I mean, again, if we would have, but it's politically incorrect, right?
[00:27:18]  There's a couple of things, like, for example, I'll never forget when Fauci stopped short of, you know, not saying, okay, everyone needs to be locked down with a mask, but he didn't go after hookup culture, right?
[00:27:27]  Remember, he was asked that about, because that's a sacred cow.
[00:27:30]  It's a piety you can't make fun of.
[00:27:31]  The same thing with obesity.
[00:27:33]  You cannot tell the American body politic you're 15, 20 pounds overweight, right?
[00:27:37]  Can't do that.
[00:27:38]  Or 15 pounds overweight or 100 pounds overweight.
[00:27:40]  Oh, but you can't protest except if you're a protest.
[00:27:43]  100%.
[00:27:44]  Now, we're hitting on something though, right?
[00:27:46]  Which is, it's a pandemic of hysteria unless there are some central pieties and some holy elements of your society that actually matter more than quote unquote the pandemic, which is social activism, you know, obesity, which I think is an interesting one because it was in front of us the whole time, right?
[00:28:05]  Instead of public health awareness of, you know what, let's all as a country try to get our BMI down 10%.
[00:28:10]  Can we do that?
[00:28:11]  Yeah.
[00:28:11]  You know, could you imagine the backlash?
[00:28:15]  Yes, right.
[00:28:16]  I mean, it's the option.
[00:28:17]  You're shaming the whole country.
[00:28:19]  You're fat-shaming the country.
[00:28:21]  Yeah.
[00:28:21]  You know what?
[00:28:22]  The country does need to be fat-shamed.
[00:28:24]  Yeah.
[00:28:25]  So instead, there's a new, you know, there's a new drug, Ozempic.
[00:28:28]  Now, look, I have not looked at all at the Ozempic clinical trial.
[00:28:31]  Clearly, it works.
[00:28:32]  It helps you in the sense that you do lose weight.
[00:28:34]  But let's not be surprised if in 10 years there's some next side effects out of Ozempic that, you know, that nobody's even predicted, because this is what happens when you rely on a medical cure for everything instead of helping people or encouraging them to be healthy.
[00:28:48]  I can't believe that this is a conservative position.
[00:28:51]  Well, it's not my position, but I agree with you.
[00:28:53]  I have said for a while that the American right embraces obesity culture way too much.
[00:28:58]  Alex, tell us about you going to Rumble.
[00:29:00]  Telling people, telling people to be healthy.
[00:29:02]  How did that become a conservative?
[00:29:04]  How did telling people not to be fat become something that is a politicized point of view?
[00:29:08]  It's because we're, as you well know, we are purchased and owned and operated by corporations that make a lot of money, not just off of getting you fat, keeping you fat, and then selling you medication to subsidize you being fat and overweight.
[00:29:21]  When you get healthy, when you're taking the right supplements, you're happier, you're less depressed, you're less likely to be on benzos, less likely to be on SSRIs.
[00:29:27]  It's not a total thing, but if you get back your autonomy and get back into a healthy lifestyle and you eat kind of local and you're not getting processed foods and not GMOs, all of your hormone markers go in the right direction and you become less profitable for these ridiculous pharmaceutical companies.
[00:29:44]  I just want to say, you know, I think the word you used was autonomy.
[00:29:48]  You have more bodily autonomy and it gives you more political autonomy.
[00:29:51]  That's the connection.
[00:29:52]  You are more independent in every way.
[00:29:55]  And there are people who don't, I guess, don't like that, or at least think that you should be more reliant on the government and less on yourself.
[00:30:02]  That's the connection.
[00:30:02]  I think there's a psychological fear people have, right?
[00:30:05]  Because they want to be taken care of.
[00:30:06]  Deep down, I think there is a yearning in the soul and the programming of who we are as human beings to be taken care of.
[00:30:11]  And that scares them.
[00:30:12]  They're like, are you sure you can't just provide me what I need?
[00:30:14]  Alex, tell us about Rumble.
[00:30:16]  You're going to Rumble.
[00:30:17]  Tell us about your journey.
[00:30:18]  No, I'm not.
[00:30:19]  No, no, I'm not going to Rumble.
[00:30:21]  I have an offer from Rumble.
[00:30:23]  They want me.
[00:30:24]  They really want me to go on locals.
[00:30:26]  You know, look, I have a face that's made for radio.
[00:30:28]  I'll leave, I'll leave TV to pretty people like you.
[00:30:31]  Oh, yeah.
[00:30:32]  But, but no, so Rumble, and the reason this came out is because I wrote something about on my Substack yesterday.
[00:30:39]  So I have the Substack, the unreported true Substack, and I've got, you know, I've got a pretty decent sized audience.
[00:30:43]  I got a quarter million people who subscribe.
[00:30:45]  Most of those people don't pay.
[00:30:47]  And as I always tell people, you basically get the same product whether you pay or not.
[00:30:51]  But enough people pay that it's a good, you know, it's a good earning.
[00:30:55]  You know, it's my career at this point.
[00:30:57]  And so Rumble came to me and said, hey, we'd like you basically to move your product over to locals.
[00:31:03]  I mean, it was really locals.
[00:31:04]  You know, locals is a subscription arm of Rumble.
[00:31:07]  And, you know, we'll make it worth your while.
[00:31:10]  And we'll offer you, you know, we'll offer your subscribers the same, basically the same product that they see on Substack.
[00:31:16]  And I sort of felt, look, this is a big deal.
[00:31:20]  You know, Substack has become this sort of voice of free speech.
[00:31:23]  And I know Rumble and locals believe in free speech too.
[00:31:26]  So I actually thought to myself, look, the readers are the ones who pay my bills.
[00:31:30]  The readers are the ones I'm writing for.
[00:31:31]  Let me ask them what they think.
[00:31:33]  Would they rather I stay on Substack in the ecosystem that has Matt Taibbi in it and has Barry Weiss in it?
[00:31:40]  Or do they not care?
[00:31:41]  And maybe I should take this deal from locals and switch over.
[00:31:44]  And somewhat to my surprise, so I posted this last night.
[00:31:48]  More than 10,000 people have voted in this poll, and they pretty overwhelmingly want me to stay on Substack.
[00:31:55]  Now, that doesn't mean I have to listen to them, but it does mean I hear them.
[00:31:59]  And it's been striking to me.
[00:32:03]  The fight for free speech continues.
[00:32:04]  How is your lawsuit against Twitter?
[00:32:07]  Is that still ongoing?
[00:32:09]  Twitter, the Twitter lawsuit is settled.
[00:32:10]  Berenson v. Biden is ongoing.

=== Masks and Free Speech (03:59) ===

[00:32:14]  And so the Pfizer executives, they have a lawyer now.
[00:32:20]  And Andy Slavet, I believe, assuming he is the same lawyer who responded to us last year, has a lawyer.
[00:32:26]  These are very, very high-paid civil defense lawyers.
[00:32:30]  And the Department of Justice is going to get involved.
[00:32:32]  So against this, I have my genius lawyer in North Carolina, James Lawrence.
[00:32:38]  And, you know, we have some people kind of helping us quietly advising us.
[00:32:45]  And we're not going to run out of money.
[00:32:46]  I've raised some money for the suits.
[00:32:48]  So we're in a strong position on that.
[00:32:50]  And we'll just go.
[00:32:51]  I mean, I think we have a really good case.
[00:32:53]  I think people, some people who've read the case who I think didn't know exactly how we were going to frame it have been surprised by the strength of it.
[00:33:02]  But, you know, we'll take our chances.
[00:33:04]  Very good.
[00:33:05]  So, Alex, I want to play another piece of tape here of Anthony Fauci talking about masks.
[00:33:12]  And again, this is never is he pressed about the social cost of masks.
[00:33:16]  Look, my whole stance on masks the entire time were they probably don't work, but it's bad for conversation.
[00:33:24]  It makes a nastier society.
[00:33:25]  It's bad for kids' language development.
[00:33:27]  That's always been my take on masks, is that the cost socially is way greater than any benefit.
[00:33:33]  And probably there is no benefit because no one wears them correctly.
[00:33:36]  Play cut 48.
[00:33:37]  If you read very carefully what I said, if you look at the broad public health effect when you have masks that are so-called mandated or supposed to be worn, because so many people don't wear them, even though they're in an arena in which masks are supposed to be worn or they don't wear them properly from a public health standpoint on the cohort of people, the effect can be only marginal.
[00:34:02]  And as we mentioned, it was 10, 13% or so.
[00:34:05]  But for the individual who religiously wears a properly fitted mask, the effect is much, much, much better than that.
[00:34:14]  It's 85, 90% or more.
[00:34:18]  Alex, and then we're supposed to act as if when we went through airports with, you know, these, I mean, these pieces of cloth that they were going to do something?
[00:34:29]  I can't.
[00:34:30]  I'm sorry.
[00:34:30]  I can't stand this.
[00:34:32]  Okay.
[00:34:33]  He's he, first of all, he's not telling the truth.
[00:34:38]  Okay.
[00:34:38]  He's talking about N95 masks.
[00:34:40]  Okay.
[00:34:41]  That would cost about $2 billion a day every day to have Americans quote unquote properly wear N95 masks, which most people can't tolerate for long periods of time anyway.
[00:34:52]  And, you know, there are several bucks and you'd have to swap them out.
[00:34:54]  So from a realistic point of view, it's a joke.
[00:34:57]  Okay.
[00:34:58]  So what he's really saying is we told you to wear masks, but the way we actually told you to wear them, they're useless.
[00:35:04]  And he's admitting that.
[00:35:06]  So it's all downside.
[00:35:08]  It's everything you said about masks not being effective and being sort of damaging socially.
[00:35:16]  And that's the point.
[00:35:17]  Yes, exactly.
[00:35:18]  Yeah.
[00:35:19]  So, so, so, so, and by the way, he's even wrong about the 85 or 90 percent.
[00:35:23]  When you actually look at the benefits of N95s against respiratory virus, it's minor when you can find it at all.
[00:35:30]  So he's just not telling the truth.
[00:35:32]  And, you know, he's done this thing now repeatedly in, you know, in a couple of dimensions, school closures, masks, lockdowns, where he said, well, it wasn't me.
[00:35:40]  I didn't really tell anybody to do anything.
[00:35:42]  I'm not the president.
[00:35:43]  I'm just Tony Fauci.
[00:35:44]  I just gave advice.
[00:35:45]  We have a quick tape.
[00:35:46]  That's such nonsense.
[00:35:47]  We have a quick tape.
[00:35:48]  Go to 61.
[00:35:49]  Look at his lies.
[00:35:50]  I wonder if you would recommend locking down schools if you had to do it all over again.
[00:35:56]  Well, you know, again, it's first of all, I didn't recommend locking anything down.
[00:36:01]  You're asking me questions.
[00:36:02]  You're talking about.
[00:36:04]  It was a decision to make a recommendation to the president.
[00:36:07]  I recommended to the president that we shut the country down.

=== Fauci's Truthful Defense (00:47) ===

[00:36:14]  Alex, I mean, there's one.
[00:36:15]  He was the most after the other after the other.
[00:36:18]  He was the most powerful person in this country in 2020.
[00:36:21]  He loved it.
[00:36:22]  He loved the hero, you know, the hero worshiping.
[00:36:25]  He loved throwing out that ball at the, you know, at National Stadium in 2020.
[00:36:29]  And for him to walk away now and pretend that we didn't do all this stuff, basically because he did it.
[00:36:34]  He knew he knew that if he resigned, Donald Trump would be impeached.
[00:36:38]  Okay.
[00:36:38]  He had that power and he used it.
[00:36:41]  Got to go.
[00:36:42]  Alex, check out his sub stack, Unreported Truths.
[00:36:45]  Thanks so much, Alex.
[00:36:46]  Charlie, thanks for having me.
[00:36:48]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:36:49]  Email us your thoughts.
[00:36:50]  As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:36:53]  Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
[00:36:57]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.