The Charlie Kirk Show - The Sovietization of America with Mark Houck and James Lawrence
Aired: 2023-02-02
Duration: 34:03


=== SWAT Team Against Pro-Life Leader (12:30) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey everybody, an entire episode on the FBI, the DOJ, and the Soviet country that we are now living in.
[00:00:07]  Mark Hauk joins us, and then James Lawrence talks about a pending trial that is really important.
[00:00:14]  Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:17]  Support our program at charliekirk.com/slash support.
[00:00:21]  Get involved with TurningPointUSA today at tpusa.com.
[00:00:25]  That is tpusa.com.
[00:00:28]  As always, you can email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:31]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:00:32]  Here we go.
[00:00:33]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:35]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
[00:00:37]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:00:40]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:00:44]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:00:45]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:00:46]  His spirit, his love of this country.
[00:00:48]  He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
[00:00:54]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:03]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:06]  Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.
[00:01:15]  I was fired up a couple months ago when the Biden Department of Justice decided to deploy a SWAT team to go after a pro-life leader.
[00:01:23]  And that same DOJ told us they can't find the Supreme Court leaker.
[00:01:27]  Sorry, just not interested.
[00:01:29]  Almost nobody arrested, from my knowledge, on federal hate crime charges for the firebombing or the arson of pro-life clinics.
[00:01:35]  But what they focused their attention on was going after a pro-life dad who's a pro-life activist, storming the home and trying to do a show trial to say that if you support pro-life ideas, if you are a pro-life activist, we are going to show the world that we're going to make you suffer.
[00:01:59]  Well, Mark Hauk was raided by the FBI, indicted by the Department of Justice, and has now been acquitted.
[00:02:04]  A federal jury rejected the government's intimidation against pro-life people.
[00:02:09]  And Mark Hauk joins us now.
[00:02:10]  Mark, welcome to the program.
[00:02:12]  Greetings, Charlie.
[00:02:13]  Thanks for having me.
[00:02:14]  Mark, tell us your story first, the situation that's in question, and then walk us through the day the FBI arrived.
[00:02:21]  Sure.
[00:02:22]  So all glory be to God for this opportunity.
[00:02:25]  And it all began on October 13th, 2021, which was the day that my son and I, my 12-year-old son at the time, were coming into the city of Philadelphia for our normal prayer vigil, our weekly prayer vigil.
[00:02:42]  We've been doing it for myself 20 years and my son for the last two years with me.
[00:02:46]  And on this particular day, the fall afternoon, after about 45 minutes of praying, there was an altercation between myself and a Planned Parenthood escort.
[00:02:59]  And that ensued to be, I guess, more problems with this man because that initial altercation where he was interfering with my First Amendment rights to give literature out to abortion-minded men and women who come and go from the facility led him to further harass me and my son.
[00:03:22]  He placed himself on that day literally about a foot or two away from my son and started to sling insults at me and try to coerce and manipulate my son's mind about his own father, basically harassing my son.
[00:03:36]  My son became very nervous, uneasy with the situation.
[00:03:39]  I could tell he was scared.
[00:03:41]  And I told the man to get away.
[00:03:42]  It's not the first time I told him to do that, but on this day I told him to get away.
[00:03:47]  He would not comply with that.
[00:03:48]  He continued to communicate with my son.
[00:03:51]  It got to the point where I walked him back to his post where he normally stands.
[00:03:56]  And I told him not to talk to my son.
[00:03:59]  He turned around.
[00:04:00]  I turned around thinking he was leaving.
[00:04:02]  And he continued to speak to my son.
[00:04:06]  As any good father, as any good dad, I turned around and I pushed him.
[00:04:10]  And that was the original incident.
[00:04:12]  Now, what followed from that, Charlie, is a private criminal complaint.
[00:04:16]  The DA, the Philadelphia Police Department, did not want to do anything with it.
[00:04:20]  They have bigger fish to fry, I guess.
[00:04:23]  And he filed a private criminal complaint.
[00:04:25]  It went to municipal court in Philadelphia.
[00:04:27]  After about four hearings, the man that accused me of these things didn't even bother to show up for court.
[00:04:35]  So it was dismissed on April 22nd, on April 20th, this past year, 2022.
[00:04:41]  On April 27th, five days later, I was given a target letter saying that I was a target of a federal grand jury investigation and that my attorney should contact the assistant U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Philadelphia.
[00:04:54]  We did do that.
[00:04:55]  We complied with all that.
[00:04:58]  Thomas Moore Society was representing me at the time.
[00:05:00]  Matt Hefron, my attorney, was a former federal prosecutor.
[00:05:04]  And he said to Anita Eve, the AUSA, that you have no case.
[00:05:09]  There's case law against this.
[00:05:10]  But if you want to indict my client, no reason to bring an agent out to his house, we'll come down peacefully and present him.
[00:05:19]  About six months go by, five actually.
[00:05:22]  My attorney reaches out to me and says, have you heard anything from the AUSA?
[00:05:26]  I said, no.
[00:05:28]  He said, me neither.
[00:05:29]  She won't return my phone calls.
[00:05:31]  Next thing I know, Charlie, 6:45 in the morning, Friday, September 23rd, about two dozen federal agents and PA state troopers were on my doorstep, banging on my door, demanding me to open the door, full SWAT gear, full SWAT, heavily armored vest, ballistic shields, ballistic helmets, M16s, battering ram, ready to break down my door if I didn't open it up, which I calmly did,
[00:05:59]  and proceeded to have dialogue with them.
[00:06:02]  They said they were going to arrest me.
[00:06:06]  And my wife asked for a warrant.
[00:06:08]  They said we're taking him with or without a warrant.
[00:06:11]  And then eventually, after about 15 minutes of reckless behavior, scary moments for my children and my wife, I was put in custody and taken down to the federal building in Philadelphia.
[00:06:23]  And so you just recently had your trial.
[00:06:25]  It seems as if this was a very quick timeline between the raid and the trial.
[00:06:30]  And so was there a reason for that?
[00:06:33]  That's a good question.
[00:06:35]  I think, you know, you look some of these things up.
[00:06:37]  Whenever there's a minor involved in a trial like this, they try to expedite it so that the child isn't further traumatized.
[00:06:44]  No one communicated to me that that was the reason.
[00:06:47]  We were just first up, couldn't believe it was four months after the David DeLeidon's case and he's still in court and waiting his trial for many things and it's been years.
[00:07:01]  So you just recently had your trial and they were, this is the federal government, right?
[00:07:05]  So there was a, is it fair to say there was a federal prosecutor that was arguing to try to put you in jail?
[00:07:12]  What law were they alleging that you broke?
[00:07:16]  So I was I was charged with allegedly violating the FACE Act, which is a 1994 federal law that was enacted sponsored by the late Senator Ted Kennedy and Chuck Schumer.
[00:07:30]  And basically it was designed in the 1990s to deal with pro-lifers who were performing public sit-ins and civil disobedience called the rescue movement.
[00:07:40]  And they effectively did that under Bill Clinton's administration.
[00:07:44]  It has been resurrected to come after pro-lifers.
[00:07:47]  Basically, the act stands for federal access to clinic entrances and it protects those.
[00:07:52]  Those acronyms drive me crazy.
[00:07:53]  Sorry, continue.
[00:07:54]  That's okay.
[00:07:55]  It protects those that are coming into and out of an abortion facility, or it even protects those trying to get into a pregnancy resource center, believe it or not.
[00:08:04]  In this case, it's being applied widely to against pro-lifers and not being adequately or equally applied to the violations against people with intent to go to pregnancy resource centers or violence against pregnancy resource centers.
[00:08:19]  But in this case, it was applied to me.
[00:08:21]  They had two counts with three to four elements under each.
[00:08:25]  And basically, it was a violation of the FACE Act that held up to 11 years in prison and $350,000 in fine.
[00:08:34]  And so the government spent their time on you and these two charges.
[00:08:38]  And thankfully, the system that our founding fathers established of having a jury of your peers and presumption of innocence and representation and a speedy trial and this legal system inherited by Blackstone and from biblical principles, you're now exonerated.
[00:08:58]  Do you have plans, though, to counter-sue the government for going after you?
[00:09:03]  Yes, I mean, people need to be held accountable.
[00:09:06]  On that day, my wife and children were terrorized and to this day still feel the effects.
[00:09:13]  I mean, I have seven children aged 14 at the time, 13 down to three.
[00:09:18]  And my wife and children need and deserve justice and they will get justice.
[00:09:25]  And myself, now that I'm acquitted, will be a part of that.
[00:09:28]  And we will sue the federal government, the Department of Justice.
[00:09:32]  We actually will probably be pursuing other lawsuits against planned parents.
[00:09:37]  I would hope so.
[00:09:38]  Yeah, I mean, and just I know a lot of people did pro bono work for you, but I mean, it just should be a law somewhere that if the government loses, they should have to pay your legal bills.
[00:09:50]  I mean, they get to use the public treasury.
[00:09:53]  I'm sure you had to spend some money, but I know a lot of groups stepped up and defend you.
[00:09:57]  Any thoughts on that?
[00:09:58]  Yeah, sure.
[00:09:58]  Thomas Moore Society, the Calvary, right, for us as Pro-Life America, they came and they were gracious and generous.
[00:10:05]  So, yeah.
[00:10:07]  That's great.
[00:10:07]  Not every, especially with the January 6th defendants, they don't have access to legal representation.
[00:10:13]  And it's a tragedy.
[00:10:15]  Stay right there, Mark.
[00:10:16]  I want to ask you a couple more questions.
[00:10:19]  I want to tell you guys about COVID tax relief.
[00:10:23]  COVID Tax Relief is an amazing service that exists for you because of Washington, D.C.'s addiction to overspending.
[00:10:31]  Again, I'm not a fan that this money exists or that's out there or that it's available, but as they say, it is what it is.
[00:10:37]  Look, COVIDTaxRelief.org got a small retail business, almost $80,000.
[00:10:42]  COVIDtaxRelief.org got a manufacturing business, nearly $250,000.
[00:10:47]  COVIDtaxRelief.org got a large distribution business, almost $900,000.
[00:10:51]  If you run a business, church or nonprofit, and paid your employees through all or part of the pandemic, you could qualify for up to $26,000 per employee through the Government Cares Act.
[00:11:01]  COVIDtaxRelief.org receives a low commission, very reasonable, only after you receive the money.
[00:11:05]  So go to covidtaxrelief.org.
[00:11:07]  That is covidtaxrelief.org, covidtaxrelief.org.
[00:11:11]  Check it out right now, covidtaxrelief.org.
[00:11:17]  Pro-life centers were firebombed across the country.
[00:11:20]  They tried to kill Brett Kavanaugh.
[00:11:22]  The leaker was never found, but their focus was on Mark Hauk.
[00:11:26]  And Mark, what did you do?
[00:11:28]  You were praying outside of a clinic and some paid agitator probably tried to come up to your kid.
[00:11:34]  I mean, did the government show any remorse or hesitation throughout this entire prosecutorial process?
[00:11:40]  This is the federal government of the United States.
[00:11:42]  Yes.
[00:11:44]  Well, the gentleman that you allude to, he's been there, a volunteer for 20 years.
[00:11:48]  So, you know, that kind of puts that to rest.
[00:11:52]  The government, how they handled this and how they treated me is interesting and something we'll hopefully take before Congress.
[00:12:00]  When they came to my house that day, again, if you know anything about a federal agent coming to your home to serve a warrant or to arrest somebody, usually it's one or two people.
[00:12:13]  Now, the FBI does their homework and they do tremendous research over who they're going to go out and bring this paperwork to.
[00:12:21]  On that particular day, I had over 20 plus agents and PA state troopers that were at my house with long guns and full SWAT gear.

=== Cuffed and Shackled in Federal Building (03:50) ===

[00:12:31]  I'm surprised someone didn't get shot that day.
[00:12:33]  I'm surprised one of my children weren't shot.
[00:12:35]  We do have some airsoft guns in the house.
[00:12:38]  But if one of my children thought this was interesting, a little five-year-old or four-year-old, they would have been shot.
[00:12:43]  So it was extremely reckless.
[00:12:46]  Once I was put in custody, I was not told that I would be returning to my family.
[00:12:51]  I wasn't told anything.
[00:12:53]  Again, they said they were going to take me with her without a warrant.
[00:12:56]  They did have a warrant, but that's how they communicated to my wife.
[00:12:59]  As my children were screaming and they took me away, they wouldn't allow me to get a pair of pants, to get a sweatshirt on a cold day, to put socks on, wouldn't allow me to brush my teeth, wouldn't let me put antiodorant on.
[00:13:11]  It was 6:45 in the morning.
[00:13:15]  Normally, when an agent comes to your house, they might say, you know, sure, we're going to take you downtown, finish your coffee, you know, get your stuff together.
[00:13:22]  We'll wait for you.
[00:13:23]  But that didn't happen.
[00:13:24]  On this day, I was rushed out of my home, taken to the federal building about 100 yards from Independence Hall, where our rights were established.
[00:13:31]  I was cuffed, shackled in my waist and on my feet in the federal building.
[00:13:37]  I was chained to a table for over six hours with my hands and shackled.
[00:13:42]  I had bare ankles, tightly, the cuffs were tightly put on my ankles.
[00:13:47]  And for six hours, I just prayed and entered into a deeper union with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
[00:13:55]  Now, during that process, while I was praying and entering into that piece of that space, they manipulated and coerced me to give over information that they told me I didn't have to give.
[00:14:07]  And they did the same to my wife.
[00:14:10]  Eventually, we were given a bond.
[00:14:12]  If we fulfilled all the requirements of the bond, we would be released on our own recognizance.
[00:14:16]  And I submit to you today, Charlie, that the government had every intention of releasing me that day.
[00:14:22]  What their goal was was to humiliate me, intimidate me, instill fear in me, my wife, and my children, and pro-life Americans.
[00:14:31]  The movement, that's exactly right.
[00:14:33]  They wanted this was a show trial.
[00:14:34]  This is a Soviet tactic where they will drag an opposition political leader through the streets and they'll well-publicize it and they'll put you in prison and arrest you.
[00:14:44]  And they'll say, Hey, for all of you out there there that think you can challenge the regime, look what happened to Mark.
[00:14:49]  That's right.
[00:14:50]  Well, you know, and it continued, a pre-trial hearing.
[00:14:53]  And then eventually they moved me to the U.S. Marshals.
[00:14:58]  Now, you got to know in Philadelphia in the federal building, the U.S. Marshals are in the same building.
[00:15:03]  So they kept me in shackles the whole time.
[00:15:07]  As I walked to the U.S. Marshals, or I should say, shimmied my feet, there was no need to keep feet shackles, ankle shackles on me as I was going to be released at the U.S. Marshals.
[00:15:20]  I asked why that had to be, and I got no answer.
[00:15:23]  I was treated like an animal.
[00:15:25]  I was talked to like I wasn't innocent.
[00:15:27]  There was no presumption of innocence.
[00:15:29]  It was guilty as charged, criminal.
[00:15:32]  And this is exactly how I was treated.
[00:15:36]  Finally reunited with my family about 10 hours after the initial arrest.
[00:15:40]  After the repeal of Roe versus Wade, the pro-abortion lobby was out for blood.
[00:15:45]  They bombed abortion centers all across the country.
[00:15:47]  We have some B-roll of this.
[00:15:48]  And there was a list.
[00:15:50]  And these bloodthirsty savages had said, you know what?
[00:15:56]  We need to go arrest anybody that has any sort of, that has like anything in the atmospherics of committing a crime, which of course you didn't.
[00:16:05]  And they went after you and they went after so many other people because they need to make a public example of this.
[00:16:11]  Look at the firebombing here we're showing on air here, one after the other, after the other.
[00:16:16]  And I'm glad you got acquitted, but you should never have gone through that.

=== Support Good Ranchers for American Meat (02:22) ===

[00:16:21]  And I think you should sue the federal government.
[00:16:23]  Of course, no one will be fired from the federal government.
[00:16:25]  For them, it's all the same.
[00:16:26]  They get their pension.
[00:16:27]  They get paid, you know, when they raid people's homes and they do whatever they want to do.
[00:16:31]  This is so wrong.
[00:16:32]  It's so terrible.
[00:16:33]  I'm pleased it ended well, but it shows that we are living in a country that is very similar to the Soviet Union.
[00:16:39]  And it pains me to say that.
[00:16:40]  Mark, thank you so much.
[00:16:42]  Charlie, thanks for having me.
[00:16:43]  And God bless you and your audience.
[00:16:45]  God bless you.
[00:16:46]  Thank you for your faith.
[00:16:49]  All right, everybody.
[00:16:50]  I had Good Ranchers send me a box of meat.
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[00:17:06]  How do you say I love you?
[00:17:07]  Flowers, chocolate?
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[00:18:36]  With us now is James Lawrence.
[00:18:38]  James Lawrence is a lawyer and he's on Douglas Mackey's legal team.

=== First Amendment Defense Fund (15:20) ===

[00:18:43]  So first, James, welcome to the program.
[00:18:45]  Let me introduce the story of Douglas Mackey.
[00:18:47]  We've talked about this before.
[00:18:49]  This story fires me up, as it should our audience, and it really hasn't received the coverage that I think it should.
[00:18:56]  So Douglas Mackey, for lack of a better term, was a, let's just say, a talented internet voice in 2016 and started to make memes.
[00:19:07]  He's a meme maker, okay?
[00:19:08]  And he's a comedian.
[00:19:10]  He made memes in the fall of 2016, making fun of the ridiculous Hillary Clinton advertisements and posters, and some of which that said, we could put it up on the screen, avoid the line, vote from home, text Hillary to 59925.
[00:19:26]  Obviously a joke, silly.
[00:19:28]  And there were other, or how about this one?
[00:19:29]  Join Hillary to fight Russia with our greatest asset, diversity.
[00:19:32]  Hilarious.
[00:19:33]  However, the Biden administration doesn't find this to be very funny.
[00:19:37]  They are now trying to put the meme maker himself, Douglas Mackey, in jail and criminalizing comedy.
[00:19:45]  And James Lawrence is part of the legal team trying to fight the government on this.
[00:19:48]  James, again, welcome to the program.
[00:19:49]  Walk us through it.
[00:19:51]  Hey, Charlie.
[00:19:52]  First of all, thanks so much for having me.
[00:19:54]  Thank you for taking the time to really address a case that goes to the heart of the First Amendment and really who we are as a country.
[00:20:03]  So thank you for having me again.
[00:20:06]  This case, as you mentioned, really does present an unprecedented prosecution by the federal government against what we believe to be constitutionally protected speech.
[00:20:18]  My client, Mr. Mackey, is accused of violating 18 U.S.C. 241.
[00:20:26]  And I want to take a second and just explain what that statute stands for.
[00:20:32]  It was passed originally, Charlie, in the aftermath of the Civil War to guarantee the right of newly freed slaves to vote and to protect them and to prevent recalcitrant forces in the South from interfering with, again, the right to vote, the right to exercise constitutional rights.
[00:20:57]  And the statute speaks specifically of barring conspiracies to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in connection with the exercise of those rights.
[00:21:14]  And up until Mr. Mackey's indictment just days after President Biden took office, to our knowledge, it's never been used in this way to really tackle what would otherwise be constitutionally protected speech, as we've argued in the motions and the pleadings that have been made in the case to this point.
[00:21:44]  And so the government's position, and this is why this case is so important and could have such a chilling effect on free speech, is that what Mr. Mackey is alleged to have tweeted out on Twitter could end up with him facing down not only a felony conviction,
[00:22:08]  but 10 years, up to 10 years in prison for the meme specifically you mentioned the draft of otters, which is mentioned in the government's indictment, but also the tweet that which we maintain is satirical, the tweet about being able to text your vote for Hillary Clinton.
[00:22:31]  And so that's where we stand right now.
[00:22:33]  And the case is set to go to trial in the middle of March in Brooklyn, New York.
[00:22:41]  So the government's argument is that they think this meme, specifically the one with texting your vote, was misleading to people to such a great extent that it might have materially moved votes.
[00:23:00]  From my memory, that's a very weak argument.
[00:23:03]  Is the government going to be able to prove that?
[00:23:05]  That somebody did not vote or was disenfranchised because of a meme?
[00:23:10]  Well, Charlie, it's a great question.
[00:23:12]  Now, the government's argument, I think, is that they don't have to, in their view, show that any particular person did not vote as a result of viewing this meme, right?
[00:23:29]  That the conspiracy and the intention of a defendant in Mr. Mackey's alleged circumstances is sufficient in the government's view to support a conviction.
[00:23:42]  Therefore, I suppose it's incumbent on your legal team to just prove that he's a satirist then.
[00:23:48]  How do you prove that?
[00:23:51]  Well, and Charlie, there's certain things I can't get into.
[00:23:55]  No, I know, I'm just speculating out loud.
[00:23:57]  I'm not asking.
[00:23:58]  I'm not trying to make your job harder, but yeah.
[00:24:00]  Right.
[00:24:01]  No, and much appreciated.
[00:24:03]  But certainly, if one goes back in time to the 2016 election, there were quite a few of these kinds of memes that were floating around in the Twitter sphere to include memes that were targeted toward Trump supporters.
[00:24:21]  In fact, there's a similarly situated meme that's still on Twitter to this very day that invites Trump supporters to vote by mail.
[00:24:33]  And so there were these efforts that were going on.
[00:24:36]  There were conversations that were taking place and being had.
[00:24:42]  But again, the government hasn't alleged that a single vote was moved because of Mr. Mackey's memes and its read of the statute is it's not something that it has to prove.
[00:24:56]  But then it just has to improve, you have to prove intent of what.
[00:25:00]  I'm just trying to make sure I understand this.
[00:25:01]  So they have to prove that the intent, the deep-seated private beliefs of what he did was to try to disenfranchise blacks.
[00:25:13]  I mean, is that what you to interfere to interfere with to interfere with the right to vote, to do what the statute says is barred, to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person with respect to exercising their right to vote is the theory that the government has advanced.
[00:25:36]  And again, this is my synopsis of paper.
[00:25:40]  And Charlie, as you can probably surmise, if this prosecution stands and this theory has legs, the implications for other speech are dire and they're troubling.
[00:26:01]  Regardless of whether or not one agrees with Mr. Mackey's speech, regardless of your political ideology, left, right, center, whatever it might be, this prosecution has significant and in our view, troubling implications for First Amendment rights.
[00:26:25]  And that's why we really are asking people who want to help with this effort to consider giving to support Mr. Mackey's legal defense.
[00:26:38]  And you can learn more about that at memedefensefund.com.
[00:26:45]  And if you feel led, you can donate and support the effort here.
[00:26:50]  Because again, this is larger.
[00:26:52]  And in our view, just his speech.
[00:26:56]  So this is one of the more dangerous prosecutions that could set a precedent to go after any commentator or political actor.
[00:27:06]  And I also just can't quite wrap my head around this idea of interference because they're going to say, oh, look, he was a pro-Trump activist.
[00:27:15]  Therefore, look at all these memes he was obviously trying to do.
[00:27:18]  This, but hold on.
[00:27:19]  But then is you're able to indict somebody for political advocacy?
[00:27:23]  I mean, that's where the line doesn't make any sense to me.
[00:27:29]  Well, and from our perspective, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to the defense team's perspective either, right?
[00:27:39]  But we do have, and Doug, my client in particular, does have, you know, not one, great faith in God, first of all and foremost.
[00:27:50]  And for a lot of your viewers who are asking what they can do to partner, I've already mentioned meme defensefund.com as a way to help.
[00:28:01]  But we would ask for prayer, truly.
[00:28:03]  We would ask for prayer for the case, for Doug, for the defense and for justice to be done in this case.
[00:28:12]  Because again, the implications are so, from our vantage point, so significant and the stakes are so high for the First Amendment.
[00:28:23]  And the ability of people, regardless of political ideology, really, to use satire, to use memes to criticize the powers that be in our society.
[00:28:38]  That's what we see as being at stake in this prosecution.
[00:28:44]  I think you're going to win.
[00:28:45]  I don't know if you'll win in the jury.
[00:28:47]  I have no idea, but I think you're going to win the court of public opinion.
[00:28:49]  I'm certain of that.
[00:28:53]  The website is meme defensefund.com.
[00:28:57]  I'm working with our team at Turning Point USA.
[00:28:59]  We're going to do a matching type grant that if a certain amount could be raised, then we will match it at Turning Point USA up to a certain amount.
[00:29:07]  We're going to figure that out and make an announcement because this is one of the more important cases and trials.
[00:29:13]  The implications for freedom of speech are wide-ranging and significant.
[00:29:19]  And the Biden regime knows, and of course they're doing this in Brooklyn, obviously.
[00:29:22]  They wouldn't do this in Oklahoma City.
[00:29:25]  They're doing this as a way to try to set a precedent.
[00:29:28]  With this is James Lawrence, who's part of the legal team here.
[00:29:31]  Can you just elaborate a little bit more on the far-ranging implications here?
[00:29:36]  This is political speech that was done satirically with a comedic spirit.
[00:29:41]  This could very well set a precedent where if you say something that we don't like, we could put you in prison.
[00:29:50]  Well, yeah, Charlie, yeah, again, that's our view of this case from the defense side of the table, that if this prosecution stands and if the federal government using the statute,
[00:30:04]  this well-intentioned statute, which again was passed to protect the rights of free slaves in the post-Civil War South, if this can be weaponized in this way to attack an individual's right to use memes to critique the powers that be in our society in this context,
[00:30:27]  again, regardless of whether or not one agrees with the content, then one could see it being used not just to prosecute people who are accused of spreading disinformation about the method and ways of voting,
[00:30:42]  but about the actual candidates that are on the ballot as well, conceivably, because it could, in an attenuated way, interfere with the person's ability to cast a vote for a desired candidate.
[00:30:58]  This is the Pandora's box that the government's prosecution of Douglas Mackey invites.
[00:31:05]  And we are committed on the defense team to shutting the door to this, which will be to the redown and the benefit really of all Americans, regardless of political ideology.
[00:31:17]  This is chilling to all speech.
[00:31:19]  And I mean, I can't imagine that this would withstand an equal protection appeal.
[00:31:26]  I only say this because I know for certain that there is a voluminous records of people on the political left that use this sort of tactic.
[00:31:38]  I mean, is that at all in your calculus or is that a separate issue?
[00:31:42]  Well, you know, Charlie, one would expect that the most venerable civil liberties organization in our country would be standing up to the plate.
[00:31:53]  Yeah, where's the ACLU?
[00:31:55]  They're too bad.
[00:31:57]  Why are you talking, Charlie?
[00:31:58]  Why are you talking to a person who spent most of their career as a complex commercial litigator from Raleigh, North Carolina? about a case like this?
[00:32:10]  Why aren't you talking to somebody, again, from our nation's most respected and venerable civil liberties organization?
[00:32:18]  No, the ACLU is too busy trying to make sure kids could chop off their private property.
[00:32:23]  One has to make the argument.
[00:32:24]  I will say this, you know, Charlie, I had the privilege.
[00:32:28]  I had the opportunity in April of 2020 to stand shoulder to shoulder with working class people and moms who were trying to go out and protest our governor's lockdown orders here in North Carolina.
[00:32:40]  It was work that the ACLU would not do.
[00:32:42]  It's a privilege to stand shoulder to shoulder with Douglas Mackey and defend him in this case.
[00:32:50]  I'm honored to be a part of the defense team.
[00:32:53]  And again, my message to your viewers is support this effort at meme defensefund.com.
[00:33:00]  But even more importantly, really, I believe in the power of prayer.
[00:33:04]  James 5.16 says that the prayers of the righteous avail of much.
[00:33:08]  And I know there are a lot of people that are listening to this broadcast right now that are righteous.
[00:33:14]  And I would ask for them to pray for Doug, to pray for me, to pray for the defense team, to pray for justice to be done.
[00:33:21]  It really is the most important thing you can do.
[00:33:24]  We're going to keep our eyes on it.
[00:33:25]  We're going to announce a modest matching opportunity, but at least something to help get some money through to the Meme Defense Fund.
[00:33:33]  They're trying to chill and criminalize speech, and it's happening in front of our very eyes.
[00:33:38]  It's right here.
[00:33:39]  So check it out, meme-defensefund.com.
[00:33:41]  Thank you so much, James.
[00:33:43]  And I pray that you are successful.
[00:33:45]  Thank you, Charlie.
[00:33:46]  God bless you.
[00:33:47]  Thank you.
[00:33:50]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:33:51]  Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:33:54]  Thank you so much for listening and God bless.
[00:33:59]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.