The Charlie Kirk Show - Letter to the American Church with Eric Metaxas
Aired: 2022-09-21
Duration: 35:24


=== Pushing Back Against Tyranny (11:09) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:00]  Today in the Charlie Kirk Show, Eric Metaxas joins us, who's the author of a great new book, Letter to the American Church.
[00:00:08]  As always, you can email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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[00:00:47]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:49]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
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[00:00:54]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
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[00:00:59]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:00]  His spirit, his love of this country.
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[00:01:29]  Never heard of this guest before.
[00:01:30]  I'm told he's kind of a diva.
[00:01:32]  Eric Metaxas joins us now.
[00:01:33]  Eric, how are you doing?
[00:01:37]  I'm doing great because you exist, my friend.
[00:01:42]  You are someone that gives me hope.
[00:01:44]  There are not that many out there.
[00:01:46]  And I think those of us who have a voice need to use it for God's purposes, for the purposes of liberty.
[00:01:53]  So anytime I get to talk to you, I'm doing all right.
[00:01:56]  And I am so happy that you're the father of a beautiful girl.
[00:02:00]  I can't even believe it, Charlie.
[00:02:01]  It's just like, weren't you just at a grade school yourself?
[00:02:05]  That's right.
[00:02:06]  Not that long ago.
[00:02:07]  Well, thank you, Eric.
[00:02:08]  That touches me.
[00:02:09]  You have a new book out, which I want to talk about, Letter to the American Church, which reminds me of kind of the church needs to push back against tyranny.
[00:02:17]  The church needs to push back against all this despotism.
[00:02:21]  And to kind of get us ready for that, let's play cut 40 of refusing to play along.
[00:02:26]  You're checked in.
[00:02:27]  Thank you.
[00:02:28]  Here's your AIDS ring.
[00:02:28]  No thanks.
[00:02:29]  You don't want to wear an AIDS ribbon?
[00:02:31]  No, no.
[00:02:32]  But you have to wear an AIDS ribbon.
[00:02:33]  I have to.
[00:02:34]  Yes.
[00:02:35]  Yeah.
[00:02:35]  See, that's why I don't want to.
[00:02:36]  But everyone wears the ribbon.
[00:02:38]  You must wear the ribbon.
[00:02:41]  What you are.
[00:02:42]  You're a ribbon bully.
[00:02:43]  Hey, where's your ribbon?
[00:02:44]  Oh, I don't wear the ribbon.
[00:02:46]  You don't wear the ribbon?
[00:02:47]  Aren't you against AIDS?
[00:02:48]  Yeah, I'm against AIDS.
[00:02:50]  But I'm walking, aren't I?
[00:02:52]  I just don't wear the ribbon.
[00:02:53]  Who do you think you are?
[00:02:54]  Put the ribbon on.
[00:02:56]  Hey, Cedric, Bob, this guy won't wear a ribbon.
[00:03:00]  Who?
[00:03:01]  Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?
[00:03:03]  But I'm wearing the ribbon.
[00:03:04]  He's wearing the ribbon.
[00:03:05]  We are all wearing the ribbon.
[00:03:07]  So why aren't you going to wear the ribbon?
[00:03:09]  This is America.
[00:03:10]  I don't have to wear anything I don't want to wear.
[00:03:12]  Eric, I just love the idea that you were able to do it.
[00:03:17]  You and I are both huge Seinfeld fans.
[00:03:19]  And I just got to say that before the world went utterly insane, mainstream comedy made fun of this kind of fascist bullying that has now become the norm all across America.
[00:03:33]  But Charlie, you understand every book I write, I write for everyone except this book, Letter to the American Church.
[00:03:40]  I wrote specifically for people who call themselves Christians because there are people out there who are convinced that their Christian faith means they should not be political.
[00:03:52]  What that really means is that they should not be political along the lines of, you know, MAGA, America-loving, whatever it is.
[00:04:02]  And it is, this idea has infiltrated the church.
[00:04:05]  It is just monstrous.
[00:04:08]  I talk in the book about how, because, you know, we can joke about you're a ribbon bully, right?
[00:04:14]  But that's literally how it started in Germany.
[00:04:17]  That's why I found it perfect, though, is I found that as kind of a comedic intro, right?
[00:04:21]  Of that kind of political egalitarianism, right?
[00:04:24]  It is, it starts that way that says, if you don't do this, there's something wrong with you.
[00:04:28]  I mean, look, in my book, A Fish Out of Water, I talk about when I was at Yale, this happened to me at Yale.
[00:04:33]  I don't think I ever told you this, but we were supposed to wear a ribbon at graduation to show that we were against apartheid in South Africa.
[00:04:42]  We were supposed to wear another ribbon.
[00:04:44]  It's in the book.
[00:04:44]  I don't remember the colors.
[00:04:45]  I think it was like yellow and green was the other one or gold.
[00:04:49]  And if you didn't wear it, people looked at you funny.
[00:04:51]  Like, what's why aren't you wearing the ribbon?
[00:04:53]  And this was, that was 1984.
[00:04:55]  And I remember the time, like the sheep that I was, I just went along.
[00:04:59]  It's like, well, of course I'm going to wear the ribbon.
[00:05:01]  And you realize that's how it starts.
[00:05:03]  And we are now in a place in America where, except for a few places like this program or my program, there are people going along with things.
[00:05:11]  And a lot of these people are going to churches where the pastors are being utterly silent on these issues that concern every American that concern the future of America.
[00:05:22]  And I wrote the book to try to reach those pastors that are being silent, to try to reach those Christians that are going to those churches or that are theologically confused as though this is the Christian thing to do.
[00:05:33]  This is not the Christian thing to do.
[00:05:35]  This is the evil thing to do.
[00:05:37]  But if you wrap it in some kind of fake theology, a lot of people will go along with it.
[00:05:42]  And again, the point is, this is what happened in Germany.
[00:05:44]  The church was persuaded to be silent and people went along with it, went along with it.
[00:05:49]  Bonhoeffer did what he could.
[00:05:51]  People really refused to hear him.
[00:05:53]  Oh, he's a hothead.
[00:05:54]  We're just going to go Romans 13, Romans 13.
[00:05:56]  We're not going to mention this stuff.
[00:05:57]  We know what happened in Germany.
[00:05:59]  It is a nightmare beyond anything we could imagine, but it actually happened.
[00:06:04]  And my thesis is that it is precisely what is happening in America today because of the silence of the church.
[00:06:11]  And so the book is called Letter to the American Church.
[00:06:14]  Everyone should pick up a copy.
[00:06:15]  It's a very important book.
[00:06:16]  And so you ask the question here: can it really be God's will that his children be silent at a time like this?
[00:06:24]  Decrying the cowardice that masquerades as godly meekness.
[00:06:27]  Eric Metaxas summons the church to battle.
[00:06:30]  Why is this even a question, Eric?
[00:06:32]  How is it possible that people that are filled with faith even struggle with this question?
[00:06:36]  Well, listen, Charlie, the problem is we're dealing with human beings, right?
[00:06:41]  That's always the problem.
[00:06:43]  And people, I can look at my own life, right?
[00:06:47]  When I was in my early 20s, I just mentioned it.
[00:06:49]  When I was at Yale, I went with the flow.
[00:06:52]  I didn't want to stick out.
[00:06:53]  I didn't want people to look at me and say, like, that guy's a fascist.
[00:06:55]  That guy's this.
[00:06:57]  I didn't know who I was.
[00:06:58]  I didn't have the confidence to say, no, that's wrong.
[00:07:02]  And there are many people in American life today.
[00:07:04]  There are many people in American churches today.
[00:07:07]  They're just like that.
[00:07:08]  They don't really know what to think.
[00:07:09]  They're afraid to say anything.
[00:07:11]  And so they're going along.
[00:07:12]  And I'm here to say, ladies and gentlemen, this happened precisely as it is happening now in Germany.
[00:07:21]  I'm not exaggerating the parallel.
[00:07:23]  It is exactly what happened.
[00:07:24]  Yeah, but it was.
[00:07:25]  Let me say, I don't, did you find that persuasive?
[00:07:28]  I'm just, I'm sorry to interrupt you because some pastors roll their eyes every time we mention Germany, but it's literally true.
[00:07:33]  Well, what I'm trying to say is I believe that there are some who can be reached.
[00:07:38]  I think there are some who couldn't care less.
[00:07:40]  They really couldn't care less.
[00:07:42]  They've inured themselves to anything unpleasant.
[00:07:44]  But the reason I wrote the book and the way I wrote it is to reach those who might be persuaded, who are confused enough to say, well, I'll see what he has to say.
[00:07:53]  And the reason I wrote it, Charlie, is because there are other people writing books saying exactly the opposite.
[00:07:58]  And it's astonishing to me that they are saying the church shouldn't be political.
[00:08:03]  I mean, just to get specific, it's a misunderstanding of what faith is.
[00:08:07]  It's a misunderstanding of what Romans 13 says about how we're to obey the governing authorities.
[00:08:11]  There are various misunderstandings that are, here's the key, the precisely the same misunderstandings of the German church in the early 30s.
[00:08:20]  So you have to forget about what happened for a second in Germany, and you have to go back to where it was before they knew this could ever happen.
[00:08:29]  Good people, Christians, pastors who love God, whatever, were persuaded that silence was the right godly option.
[00:08:38]  And the reasons they were persuaded that are the same reasons people are persuaded today.
[00:08:43]  When you see those parallels, that's when you'll think, oh, oh, well, then I guess it could be happening right now.
[00:08:50]  So you have to see what the parallels are.
[00:08:51]  So we're going to buy a bunch at TPSA Faith and we're going to distribute them.
[00:08:54]  We have to.
[00:08:55]  This is so important.
[00:08:57]  And, Eric, I mean, you've, you're, you're a bestseller after bestseller.
[00:09:00]  I mean, the amount of books you put out is unbelievable from the Bonhoeffer book, which obviously was the big home run.
[00:09:06]  But you wrote a great book on William Wilberforce.
[00:09:08]  You have everything you always wanted to know about God, the Jesus Edition.
[00:09:13]  You, of course, have seven men, seven more men, seven women, miracles, Martin Luther, you know, is atheism dead, fish out of water.
[00:09:21]  But you've said this book is very unique in that kind of canon of work.
[00:09:26]  Well, I hate to say it, but without any question, without any question, this is the most important book I've ever written.
[00:09:33]  It's probably the shortest.
[00:09:35]  And I wish I weren't right, but I think the message in this message, it is a clarion call.
[00:09:41]  I beg people who are still open-minded to see what I have to say because everything is at stake.
[00:09:48]  The nation is at stake.
[00:09:49]  Some people say, okay, I want to speak out, but what does that mean?
[00:09:51]  I mean, come on, it doesn't mean I have to be a Republican, does it?
[00:09:54]  And so that's the question, right?
[00:09:55]  And then I'm going to read some of the objections from people in institutional corporate Christianity that write these things comfortably smug as the evil unfolds again in front of our very eyes.
[00:10:07]  Only the church could rise up and stop this.
[00:10:10]  If the church does not rise up, it is all over.
[00:10:12]  It collapses from within.
[00:10:14]  And the book, the book is called Letter to the American Church.
[00:10:18]  You guys can find it at ericmetaxis.com.
[00:10:20]  That's probably the best way to just have people start, right, Eric?
[00:10:23]  EricMetaxis.com.
[00:10:25]  EricMetaxis.com, Letter to the American Church.
[00:10:28]  Very important.
[00:10:28]  I give Eric a very hard time and he gives me a hard time, but it's because we have such respect for each other.
[00:10:34]  And I could tell you, this is one of the most important books out there right now.
[00:10:36]  And it is rage-inducing when I see churches that have been so blessed with big buildings and huge staffs and they say, well, we don't do that around here.
[00:10:43]  We're just going to let the society decay and the civilization crumble.
[00:10:46]  We're not going to do anything.
[00:10:50]  Right now, Bank of America has just lowered its 2022 forecast for the SP 500 by a whopping 900 points to 3,600.
[00:11:00]  Saying we're headed for a recession this year, it said the new year target is the lowest on the street.
[00:11:05]  This is not good news for those of you stuck in equities or anything tied to stock markets.

=== The Cost of Silence (03:10) ===

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[00:11:48]  Hey, Eric, uh, what do they call a quarter pounder in France?
[00:11:53]  Uh, oh, oh, it's like uh deluxe or something, it's a royale with cheese, you know, because they're on the metric system.
[00:12:04]  All right, so uh, we have I'm here, I'm here till for somebody who's on the spectrum, you seem very normal.
[00:12:12]  I just want you to know that, yes, missed an interval of um intervention this morning.
[00:12:17]  You were challenging me before that whenever you bring up the Nazis, people go, Oh, yeah, the Nazis, Nazis.
[00:12:23]  Look, they're always going to be people, and it's useless to try to argue with them.
[00:12:28]  They're not interested in hearing the truth.
[00:12:31]  They want to use a label to shut you up, they'll call you a white supremacist or a Christian nationalist or a racist, or you're being political.
[00:12:39]  They just want to use words to shut you up.
[00:12:41]  But if there's anyone interested in the truth, I just turned to the page in my new book, Letter to the American Church, where Bonhoeffer himself, it's amazing that he wrote these words.
[00:12:51]  He wrote, He says, He was so disgusted with the German church.
[00:12:56]  This is in the mid-30s already, that he said it is high time we broke with our theologically based restraint toward the state's actions, which after all is only fear.
[00:13:10]  He was calling out the German church, and he saw that they had these theological reasons for saying nothing while the world is going to hell, while Jews are being rounded up.
[00:13:21]  And they say, Well, sort of not my problem.
[00:13:23]  I'm just going to go into my church and worship my God and preach my weak little gospel.
[00:13:28]  And I have to say, every one of the parallels is the same today.
[00:13:33]  Charlie, it's astonishing and it is horrifying to hear people say exactly what German Christians said then because we know the results.
[00:13:42]  We know what happened in Germany.
[00:13:44]  We're not making it up.
[00:13:45]  It's not what could happen.
[00:13:47]  And it's not just Germany, it's the Soviet Union, right?
[00:13:50]  I mean, so the church in the Soviet Union was paid off.
[00:13:52]  It was a little bit different, but it was very similar.
[00:13:55]  Well, here's the thing: of course, it's similar, but it's only because I know in detail the German story, because my family lived the German story, and because I spent a lot of time researching that, that I know that what happened is so dramatically similar because Germany was a Christian nation.
[00:14:14]  The church in Germany absolutely had the power to push back against the Nazis.

=== Preparing for What's Coming (03:38) ===

[00:14:20]  That's what people need to know.
[00:14:22]  They had the power, they refused to use it.
[00:14:25]  They said, But we don't do that, we just want to preach the gospel.
[00:14:28]  We don't want to get in trouble.
[00:14:29]  What do we need to do?
[00:14:30]  Hang out a swastika flag, say, tell me what to do so I don't get in trouble.
[00:14:35]  In other words, they were not concerned with being heroic, standing for God and God's truth for the sake, not just of their fellow Germans, but for the Jews in Germany and the Jews.
[00:14:46]  They didn't care.
[00:14:47]  They just wanted to know how do I keep doing business as usual?
[00:14:50]  How do I keep my church so that we don't lose any money?
[00:14:54]  We don't start to bleed parishioners because we did a big campaign and we need to make the money up and we want to keep it.
[00:15:02]  They basically made the bargain with the devil that we will be silent on these issues if you just leave us alone.
[00:15:08]  And what happened is history.
[00:15:11]  And I am making the claim, and I think backing it up with facts, that it is precisely what is happening in America today.
[00:15:18]  The silence of the church in America today, the same reasons, the same result.
[00:15:22]  It is going to be the same result if we don't wake up.
[00:15:24]  And again, I wrote the book to reach those who might be reached, those who need a little encouragement.
[00:15:30]  Like, no, it is God's will that you speak up.
[00:15:32]  This is not just, you know, some conservative talking point.
[00:15:35]  This is what God is trying to say.
[00:15:38]  Everybody, email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:15:40]  Eric, we're getting a lot of emails in, and I'm going to ask you to some of these devils advocate.
[00:15:43]  And then I've actually pulled some quotes from some people that say the church should be less political and all that.
[00:15:48]  And I want to just kind of work through it because our audience hears all this.
[00:15:51]  In fact, someone just said right here, Charlie, I need you to help me out.
[00:15:54]  My pastor does not believe in being vocal.
[00:15:57]  I go to a biblical church.
[00:15:58]  They teach verse by verse, but very little brought up about current events.
[00:16:02]  So even though we have good theology and are biblically faithful, should I expect more?
[00:16:08]  Hey, everybody.
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[00:17:31]  Fabulous book, Letter to the American Church.
[00:17:33]  All kidding aside, everyone should go pick up a copy.
[00:17:36]  And by the way, here's the call to action.
[00:17:37]  Everyone, go buy a couple copies and give one to your pastor.
[00:17:42]  Give one to your entire elder board.
[00:17:44]  Eric, this is written persuasively.
[00:17:47]  Walk us through that.
[00:17:48]  The style of what you write, you're trying to get people to do something.
[00:17:52]  Well, I'm trying to get people to see that this is not really complicated.

=== Speaking Truth to Power (15:04) ===

[00:17:58]  In other words, there is no doubt that when we see evil, we in the church are obliged by God to speak against it, to work against it, to do what we can.
[00:18:10]  There's a false message out there that we're hearing a lot, that we're only supposed to quote unquote preach the gospel, only stick to gospel-related issues.
[00:18:20]  And this is sophistry.
[00:18:21]  This is, it's, it's devilish sophistry because think about this.
[00:18:26]  They told Wilberforce to shut up.
[00:18:29]  We don't care about the slave trade.
[00:18:32]  We don't care about slavery.
[00:18:33]  And stick to the gospel.
[00:18:35]  Let's just focus on that.
[00:18:37]  And we may have someone in our audience who owns slaves or is making a ton of money off the slave trade.
[00:18:42]  We don't want to offend them.
[00:18:43]  And I think to myself, there's nothing new under the sun.
[00:18:46]  People today, many progressive Christians or many moderate Christians would say, oh, I agree with Wilberforce.
[00:18:53]  Of course.
[00:18:53]  It's obvious that that's, I have to speak up against slavery.
[00:18:56]  I don't want to be a racist.
[00:18:57]  It's super easy to celebrate the fruit of a tough struggle, but when you're in the struggle, Christians run away.
[00:19:03]  I mean, well, that's the point is that everyone today says, I would have spoken up if I was in Wilberforce's day.
[00:19:09]  I would have spoken up if I was in Bonhoeffer's day.
[00:19:12]  It's total baloney unless you're speaking up now.
[00:19:16]  And the issues are the same because when you see evil happening, we don't even, we hardly know where to start when we talk about evil happening.
[00:19:25]  Five million strangers coming across our border.
[00:19:29]  We don't know what's happening in the country.
[00:19:31]  We don't know who's leading the country.
[00:19:33]  We have cultural Marxism infiltrating our schools, infiltrating the culture.
[00:19:39]  If the church of Jesus Christ doesn't speak against these evils, God will judge us.
[00:19:46]  We don't get off the hook.
[00:19:48]  He doesn't say, well, you're a nice religious person.
[00:19:50]  He condemns us.
[00:19:52]  In the book, I actually talk about how that safe religious path, it's like when the Gestapo comes to your door and they say, are you hiding a Jew in the basement?
[00:20:01]  And you say, well, I don't want to lie because then I might get in trouble with this, you know, fake God that I claim to worship.
[00:20:08]  And so I'm just going to say, yes, I'm hiding a Jew.
[00:20:11]  Come help yourself and murder the Jew.
[00:20:13]  As though God is that kind of a God, that he just wants us to be fussy, religious, not to care about what his heart cares about.
[00:20:21]  When we see people struggling, when you see, let's talk about communities of color.
[00:20:26]  If you care about them, you will speak against Black Lives Matter, this organization, critical race theory.
[00:20:32]  Why?
[00:20:33]  Because you love those people and you don't want them to be deceived by this Marxist atheist ideology, which is crushing that community.
[00:20:41]  But a lot of white evangelicals say, well, who am I to even talk about that?
[00:20:45]  What do I know?
[00:20:46]  And they'll say the same thing about transgender.
[00:20:48]  I haven't lived through that.
[00:20:50]  You know, I have a neighbor whose daughter is going through that.
[00:20:52]  That is exactly why God commands you to speak up, because truth is truth and because it will bless those people, not because it will hurt those people.
[00:21:01]  It will bless those people.
[00:21:02]  So if you're going to a church that shrinks from talking about these things, first of all, I would say consider finding another church.
[00:21:08]  But if your pastor is reasonable, I've written this book for reasonable people that they would read it and say, you know what?
[00:21:16]  I didn't know that.
[00:21:17]  I've never heard that because they're hearing the blather that you're getting from places like Christianity today or whatever it is, which is frankly deceiving millions.
[00:21:27]  It is, it's a nightmare, Charlie.
[00:21:28]  It's an absolute nightmare.
[00:21:30]  The church, the silence of the American church is the reason we are where we are in America today.
[00:21:37]  I say this as a Christian.
[00:21:39]  I lay the blame of where we are in this nation at the foot of the church in America.
[00:21:46]  If the church were vocal on these issues and brave and understood our duty to speak truth and to be a voice for the voiceless and to be the conscience of the nation, if we lived that out fearlessly as God commands us to do, we would not have an America that's going down the tubes.
[00:22:03]  We wouldn't be in this battle.
[00:22:04]  So some people will say, got it, Eric, we got to do something.
[00:22:07]  But what to do?
[00:22:08]  Because the Republican Party's awful and we obviously don't like the Democrats.
[00:22:12]  And so they kind of take the third path, right?
[00:22:15]  So what is it to do?
[00:22:16]  What is the call to action then, Eric?
[00:22:18]  Because some pastors would say, you know, the Christian community can't possibly get behind a political party.
[00:22:25]  Well, first of all, that is nonsense.
[00:22:27]  Like that's absolute nonsense.
[00:22:28]  First of all, actually, let's go backwards.
[00:22:30]  Who cares about political parties?
[00:22:32]  There are plenty Republicans that are utterly useless.
[00:22:36]  They are more despicable to me than Democrats.
[00:22:40]  They are useless.
[00:22:41]  They're gutlets and gutless.
[00:22:43]  And they are the reason we are here.
[00:22:46]  They did not stand up to China when they might have.
[00:22:49]  They did not stand up.
[00:22:50]  They don't care about anything.
[00:22:51]  They care about power just like their Democratic colleagues care about power.
[00:22:55]  So this is not a party issue.
[00:22:57]  This is an issue of what is right, what is true.
[00:23:00]  And if you say, oh, they're all corrupt, that level of cynicism, folks, is not God.
[00:23:07]  Okay.
[00:23:07]  If you do not do what you can, just because the party and politics is messy and whatever, when you start playing that game, you're playing into the enemy's hands.
[00:23:18]  You say, you know what?
[00:23:19]  Why should I fight?
[00:23:20]  It's all corrupt.
[00:23:22]  It's all over.
[00:23:23]  We're being judged.
[00:23:24]  Who cares?
[00:23:24]  Any kind of cynicism like that, it's the opposite of what God calls us to fight.
[00:23:28]  Bonhoeffer was willing to fight to the end.
[00:23:31]  He went to his death knowing that, first of all, as an actual Christian, he knew something that Christians are supposed to know.
[00:23:40]  He knew that Jesus had defeated death.
[00:23:42]  That's not a nice idea.
[00:23:43]  It's not a fairy tale.
[00:23:44]  And if you believe that, you don't fear death.
[00:23:46]  And you fight for what is right and true.
[00:23:49]  And he tried to get the church to hear what he's saying.
[00:23:52]  And they said, not yet, not yet.
[00:23:53]  You know what?
[00:23:55]  We just want to stay out of trouble.
[00:23:56]  We want to keep moving along, moving along.
[00:23:58]  It's preposterous.
[00:24:00]  There are a hundred ways that we can do something about this.
[00:24:04]  And when people say, like, I'm afraid of being allied to a political party, where do you draw that line?
[00:24:10]  Are you afraid of being called a Satanist?
[00:24:13]  Like, what label do people throw at you to shut you up?
[00:24:16]  And the fact of the matter is that if that's all people need to do, if that's all evil needs to do, is to get you to say, oh my goodness, I can't, I don't want to sound like I'm for one political party.
[00:24:26]  If one political party is for the butchering of children, if one political party has opened the door to godless cultural Marxism and to transgender and to bringing incredibly perverse ideas to little children in school, if you don't have the guts to speak against this, it is obvious you don't believe what you say you believe as a Christian.
[00:24:48]  If you really believe what the Bible says and the truth of God, you're not going to worry so much about what people say about you.
[00:24:54]  You're going to worry about the people who are suffering, just as Wilberforce cared about the African slaves.
[00:24:58]  And so he spoke out despite people coming after him.
[00:25:01]  If you love people, you're going to speak out against this.
[00:25:04]  And people are more worried about making a little mistake or saying something or being accused of something than they're worried about people suffering horrors, which is exactly what is happening now and will continue to happen if the church continues to remain silent.
[00:25:18]  It's not biblical.
[00:25:19]  It's not God's will.
[00:25:21]  And, you know, I'm going to shout this from the rooftops with the idea that there are some who can be persuaded.
[00:25:27]  And if it's enough, we don't need everyone, but we need more people to know: wait a minute, our silence is sinful.
[00:25:34]  God will not hold us guiltless.
[00:25:36]  Silence in the face of evil is itself evil.
[00:25:39]  These are facts.
[00:25:40]  We've seen what happens.
[00:25:41]  The question is, will we make exactly the same mistake?
[00:25:44]  We are currently making exactly the same mistake as the German church made back then, and we saw how it turned out.
[00:25:51]  So I'm just going to read from one of your detractors.
[00:25:54]  I'm not going to say his name because I actually have a meeting upcoming with him, but you'll be able to figure it out.
[00:26:00]  And so there's actually a book that is completely the opposite that's just been published on this.
[00:26:05]  Okay.
[00:26:05]  Completely the opposite.
[00:26:06]  You might be able to guess who this is, which is we must be very careful when it comes to blurring the distinctions between the kingdom of God and any nation or party on earth.
[00:26:16]  The one is perfect and pure-headed by God.
[00:26:18]  All other kingdoms and nations and organizations and parties and movements are flawed and mixed at best.
[00:26:23]  Continues by saying the following.
[00:26:26]  This means as God's people living in the world, we're called to set a standard of morality and equity, which is weird.
[00:26:31]  I can't believe equity would be used.
[00:26:32]  That's not a biblical term.
[00:26:34]  In compassion and kindness and justice.
[00:26:37]  Finally, saying, are we better known for our devotion to Jesus or for our political affiliation?
[00:26:42]  Have we set the cross infinitely higher than the flag?
[00:26:45]  Do we look more like our Lord or our political leaders?
[00:26:48]  Are we living our lives here in the light of eternity than bringing those eternal realities to bear to this world?
[00:26:53]  Are we more passionate about the Bible than we are about party platforms?
[00:26:56]  Eric.
[00:26:58]  That's a load of nonsense.
[00:27:00]  I don't know who wrote that, but I will tell you this.
[00:27:02]  You can say what is true.
[00:27:05]  And whoever wrote that, what they're saying is true.
[00:27:08]  But to say it in the context of where we are now in America makes it absolute nonsense.
[00:27:14]  When you say, if somebody is, you know, shooting bullets at your head and you say, listen, we need to get in the word of God.
[00:27:21]  Let's pray.
[00:27:23]  Anybody with a brain says, what are you talking about?
[00:27:25]  Like they're shooting bullets at your head.
[00:27:26]  One of them just missed you.
[00:27:28]  Do you understand where you are?
[00:27:29]  Do you understand what is happening?
[00:27:31]  So when you say, let us pray, hard to argue with that.
[00:27:33]  But right now, you're going to be shot in the head.
[00:27:36]  That girl across the street is about to be raped.
[00:27:39]  You want to go have a quiet time or do you want to save her from being raped?
[00:27:43]  The idea that we only have to do one thing and that we're not called to do whatever we can do is sophistry, Charlie.
[00:27:53]  This is sophistry.
[00:27:54]  And the voices that are promoting those views, I know they have no idea what they're doing.
[00:28:00]  They think they're doing God's will.
[00:28:02]  But Bonhoeffer faced precisely the same thing.
[00:28:05]  In his day, good pastors said exactly these things.
[00:28:10]  They couldn't discern the times.
[00:28:11]  Why did Bonhoeffer discern the times?
[00:28:14]  Why did some understand what is happening and know we need to act against the evil?
[00:28:19]  And why did others say, but that's political?
[00:28:22]  Romans 13 says clearly we're supposed to obey the governing authorities as though that's all the Bible has to say.
[00:28:29]  It's the first century.
[00:28:30]  Let me say this.
[00:28:31]  Who are the governing authorities today?
[00:28:32]  We the people.
[00:28:33]  I think it's we the people.
[00:28:34]  Well, that's what the documents are.
[00:28:35]  Think of that.
[00:28:36]  We are the sovereign.
[00:28:36]  Think of that idea.
[00:28:38]  And we are the sovereign.
[00:28:40]  That's right.
[00:28:41]  We are the sovereign in the country.
[00:28:42]  That's very important.
[00:28:44]  Well, look, people who are saying things like what you just read, this is the reason it becomes diabolical is because a lot of people would say, well, yeah, that sounds right.
[00:28:54]  Well, yeah, on one level, it's right.
[00:28:56]  But Satan quotes scripture to Jesus.
[00:29:00]  So is what he's saying true?
[00:29:03]  We have to be a little bit discerning here.
[00:29:05]  You can say things that are true in a spirit of falsehood.
[00:29:10]  You can use good ideas to deceive people.
[00:29:15]  And so people are getting on the bandwagon that I shouldn't get political.
[00:29:19]  I just want to say God is going to judge us for our silence when we see what is happening.
[00:29:24]  And again, the idea is you set up a straw man and you say that there are these people that all they care about, you know, they're chest-banging MAGA maniacs.
[00:29:32]  They've made an idol of politics.
[00:29:34]  As a Christian, I'm not interested in making an idol of politics.
[00:29:37]  As much as I love Donald Trump or anybody who's being brave, I don't make an idol of them.
[00:29:43]  I worship Jesus, but it doesn't mean that I sometimes don't need to be political or don't need to oppose evil.
[00:29:52]  There are times when politics become so clear.
[00:29:55]  We didn't used to be in this world, you know, in the 1980s or whatever, but we're living in a time when not to be somewhat political tells you everything.
[00:30:02]  What would the ideal action points be then for a pastor or a church?
[00:30:08]  We never actually asked for this guy's answer to this guy's question.
[00:30:11]  Said, okay, our church is biblically based, but we don't talk about current events.
[00:30:14]  What does it look like?
[00:30:15]  What does success look like?
[00:30:16]  What pastors can we point to that are doing this right?
[00:30:18]  Obviously, Rob McCoy, David Engelhart, Jack Hibbs, Pastor Juergen, Angel and Luke Barnett, you know, Steve Smotherman off the top of my head.
[00:30:26]  This brings me to the title of one of the chapters in this book, Letter to the American Church.
[00:30:31]  The title is of the chapter is the idol of evangelism.
[00:30:37]  There are people who are so focused on the idea of evangelism that they have been silenced on anything that might conceivably push someone away.
[00:30:50]  And I say this because there's a great irony, Charlie.
[00:30:53]  If you're worried about losing people by bringing up important issues, like if you're against the slave trade or you're against Nazis, you know, butchering Jews or you're against the unborn being ripped apart, you say, well, we don't want to talk about these unpleasant things.
[00:31:09]  We're just going to preach the gospel.
[00:31:11]  Ironically, the people who are doing that in those churches, the numbers are fading.
[00:31:17]  People are saying, things are too crazy for me to waste a couple of hours on Sunday morning listening to nothing.
[00:31:23]  I need answers.
[00:31:24]  My children are being challenged in school with insane ideas.
[00:31:29]  I'm being challenged everywhere I look.
[00:31:31]  I have family members suffering.
[00:31:33]  I want somebody who's bold and courageous.
[00:31:36]  And those pastors who are being bold and courageous, who are not afraid to talk about something that might be called political or any of these controversial issues, those churches are increasing in number.
[00:31:49]  And there are tons of non-believers, just patriots, good people, who are saying that kind of church, that's what I've been looking for all my life.
[00:31:56]  I've been disgusted with the Namby-Pamby, religious, effeminate kind of Christianity that I'm a guy and I'm trying to live my life.
[00:32:04]  They tend to be attracted to the churches that you just mentioned, all those pastors.
[00:32:10]  And I find this very ironic because it is precisely because a lot of these pastors are afraid of losing people that they've silenced themselves on these issues.
[00:32:19]  And so part of what I'm trying to do is to help people understand that this idea of preaching the gospel or evangelism, there's more to being a Christian than that.
[00:32:28]  We are supposed to be a voice for the voiceless.
[00:32:31]  We're supposed to speak the truth.
[00:32:32]  You're doing God's will when you speak the truth.
[00:32:36]  And I just don't think people have the theological background.
[00:32:40]  They've gotten confused.
[00:32:41]  They're listening to clichés like the one that you just read out of that book.
[00:32:45]  And they're just being told, oh, yeah, if I say anything political, I'm making an idol of politics.
[00:32:51]  And that's bad.
[00:32:53]  We've got to think a little bit more deeply than that.
[00:32:55]  Those who've dared to do that have seen their numbers explode.
[00:32:58]  And you want to talk about evangelism?
[00:33:00]  People are finding faith in those churches.

=== Avoiding Total Disaster (02:20) ===

[00:33:03]  That's what I find fascinating: the irony of this whole thing.
[00:33:07]  Yeah, they're finding faith in amazing and record numbers.
[00:33:10]  The book is the letter to the American Church.
[00:33:12]  Eric, anything on the book?
[00:33:13]  We haven't yet had a chance to talk about how people can find it.
[00:33:17]  Kind of closing thoughts here.
[00:33:18]  Well, I really want to say, I mean, first of all, I hope everybody will just go to my website and you can find everything there.
[00:33:24]  You can sign up for my newsletter because I'm doing all kinds of interviews on these subjects, ericmetaxis.com, ericmetaxis.com.
[00:33:30]  But really, what it boils down to is that I believe God is giving us an opportunity to avoid total disaster.
[00:33:40]  This is to the church, right?
[00:33:42]  That if the church will be vocal, we will avoid the horrors that we deserve for our silence.
[00:33:48]  But if we don't, I say this prophetically because I have done the math, I have looked at the numbers.
[00:33:55]  We are going to lose our liberty.
[00:33:57]  Those who are preaching in churches will lose the ability to preach even their little gospel that they are willing to talk about now because they're not able to speak about because they don't dare speak about these other things.
[00:34:11]  Even that will be taken away from them.
[00:34:13]  And that this is all sound and biblical.
[00:34:17]  Otherwise, I wouldn't say this is not political.
[00:34:19]  This is just truth.
[00:34:21]  And when you're talking about truth, it's attractive to people.
[00:34:24]  And we're living in a nation right now where there has never, never, never been more of a hunger for truth and courage.
[00:34:30]  And if the church will show it, people will flock to the church by God's grace.
[00:34:34]  Letter to the American church, Eric Metaxas, honored as always.
[00:34:38]  I finally learned who you were before the show.
[00:34:40]  I said, who is this guy?
[00:34:41]  Why is he on earth?
[00:34:42]  He really impressed me.
[00:34:43]  He's got his act together, this guy.
[00:34:45]  I'll tell you what, buy a couple of his books, maybe go and hear him speak.
[00:34:49]  We'll keep him around.
[00:34:51]  But all kidding aside, I'll tell you right now, Eric is one of the most courageous people on the planet.
[00:34:55]  When you are in the foxhole, you want Metaxas next to you, not Andy Stanley, not Rick Warren.
[00:35:01]  You want Eric Metaxas.
[00:35:02]  I mean that very sincerely.
[00:35:04]  Thank you, my friend.
[00:35:05]  Talk to you soon, Eric.
[00:35:06]  God bless.
[00:35:10]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:35:11]  Email me your thoughts as always.
[00:35:12]  Freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:35:14]  Thanks so much for listening.
[00:35:15]  God bless.
[00:35:20]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.