The Charlie Kirk Show - Dr. Oz Condemns 'Medical Transition of Minors' with Dr. Mehet Oz and Thomas Klingenstein
Aired: 2022-09-14
Duration: 35:43


=== Race Against Fetterman (14:46) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey everybody, today the Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:00:02]  We have Dr. Oz.
[00:00:04]  I asked him about many different things, his race against Fetterman, and also how does he stand on transgender surgeries for children?
[00:00:12]  His answer made some news.
[00:00:14]  And then later in the program, what are Trump's virtues?
[00:00:17]  A viral conversation with Tom Klingenstein.
[00:00:20]  Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:23]  Get involved with Turning Point USA Today.
[00:00:26]  The work that TPUSA is doing, Turning Point USA, is amazing.
[00:00:30]  High school chapters, college chapters, all across the country.
[00:00:35]  What our students at Turning Point USA are doing is changing America.
[00:00:39]  If you want to support them and also get my newest book, my latest book, The College Scam, go to tpusa.com slash book and get the copy of The College Scam for $15.
[00:00:51]  As always, you can email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com, and support the Charlie Kirk Show at charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:58]  Buckle up, everybody, here we go.
[00:01:00]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:01:02]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
[00:01:04]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:01:08]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:01:11]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:01:12]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:13]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
[00:01:22]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:30]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:33]  Brought to you by Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage.
[00:01:36]  For personalized loan services, you can count on.
[00:01:38]  Go to andrewandtodd.com, the wonderfulandrewandtodd.com.
[00:01:46]  One of the strategies and tactics is to make it seem as if you don't matter.
[00:01:53]  And that is the opposite.
[00:01:54]  Every single one of you matter.
[00:01:56]  Your activism, your donations, your engagement, you keeping the pressure on, you watching this program.
[00:02:05]  You must be intentional to reject cynicism in every possible way.
[00:02:16]  There's an incredibly important Senate race happening in Pennsylvania against a very, very dangerous person, against John Fetterman.
[00:02:27]  And Dr. Oz is running as a Republican in Pennsylvania, and he joins us right now.
[00:02:32]  Dr. Oz, welcome to the program.
[00:02:34]  It's good to be with you.
[00:02:35]  Thanks for all you're doing.
[00:02:36]  You bet.
[00:02:36]  Thank you.
[00:02:37]  So tell us about yourself.
[00:02:38]  You're running one of the most critical Senate races right now in America against, as I said, one of the most dangerous people.
[00:02:44]  We'll get into Fetterman in a second.
[00:02:46]  But tell us about yourself and why you're running for office.
[00:02:49]  Well, Charlie, my father was an immigrant.
[00:02:51]  He grew up on a dirt floor, and he knew the only way out of that farming community was to get an education.
[00:02:58]  So that's what he got, a scholarship.
[00:03:00]  At the time, the United States government was very wisely looking for top graduates, in his case, from medical school, and they recruited him to come to this country.
[00:03:08]  And when he landed on these shores, he thought, this is unbelievable.
[00:03:11]  The American dream is real and uniquely real in the United States.
[00:03:16]  So he knew if he worked hard, if he served his fellow American, if he served America, he would become an American.
[00:03:22]  And that's the American dream that I grew up believing as well, which is why every single day of my life, I've worked as hard as I can.
[00:03:28]  I thought it was an obligation, but also a gift from this great country.
[00:03:30]  And I'm running in part to make sure that that American dream stays untarnished as it's passed from generation to generation.
[00:03:37]  But you and I both notice, and many listeners as well, and I am optimistic as you highlight.
[00:03:41]  Keep your head up because there's so much good going out there and so much awakening that's happening.
[00:03:46]  But there are members of the radical left fringe of the Democratic Party, it's not even most Democrats, who don't believe in the American dream.
[00:03:53]  And they have waged an all-out war on the fundamental assumptions that I always thought were the common beliefs of most Americans.
[00:04:01]  And that's the big battle that we're waging.
[00:04:03]  And the poster child for a lot of that far-left radical thinking is my opponent in this race, John Fetterman.
[00:04:09]  And we'll get to him in a second.
[00:04:10]  Yeah, I mean, Fetterman is so, he's such a fake, and it's so insulting.
[00:04:16]  You know, something that strikes me, and I want to compliment you for this, is, you know, when you go to central Pennsylvania, you know, you dress like a surgeon because you are who you are.
[00:04:24]  This guy is a phony.
[00:04:26]  He's a trust fund baby.
[00:04:28]  And he is a radical dressing in shorts and a sweatshirt and a hoodie.
[00:04:33]  Like, who do you think you are exactly?
[00:04:35]  Acting as if he just got off working in a steel mill, when in reality, he has no connection at all to the people in central Pennsylvania.
[00:04:43]  And he wants to release a third of all criminals onto the streets.
[00:04:47]  In fact, I think we have a piece of tape here I want to play here of Fetterman saying that.
[00:04:53]  Let me see if I can find the tape here, if we could dig it up.
[00:04:56]  Fetterman saying, cut play 41.
[00:04:58]  Play cut 41.
[00:04:58]  We'll get your reaction, Dr. Oz.
[00:05:00]  My hope is there's a political will to abolish death by incarceration for second-degree murder here in Pennsylvania because it's a tragedy.
[00:05:09]  And that's my hope.
[00:05:12]  That's a tragedy.
[00:05:13]  What planet is he living on?
[00:05:15]  You know, he was asked if you could wave a wand and get whatever you wanted for the people of Pennsylvania and for the country, what would you wish?
[00:05:22]  And he wanted to get rid of life imprisonment.
[00:05:24]  And I'm thinking, there's a lot of big problems out there.
[00:05:27]  If I could fix any one thing, that would not be top of mind for me because it highlights what John Fetterman continues to portray, which is he cares more about the criminals than the innocent.
[00:05:38]  We have the highest, highest murder rates of our history in Philadelphia.
[00:05:43]  And John Fetterman is making comments that you just heard, once he released one-third of all prisoners.
[00:05:47]  He's actually argued with other parole board members over releasing convicted murderers who were in life or prison for a reason that the judge and the jury at the time thought was appropriate.
[00:05:57]  And when he gets them out, he's celebrating.
[00:05:59]  He hired a couple onto his campaign staff.
[00:06:01]  And I made the argument that I want my campaign staff to reflect the people and values of Pennsylvania.
[00:06:06]  I don't think that's middle of the road.
[00:06:08]  And those kinds of positions bother not just folks living in the, you know, in the city of Philadelphia, but the suburban areas, people wondering what's going on here.
[00:06:16]  What about us?
[00:06:17]  What about law-abiding citizens?
[00:06:18]  And it highlights a bigger issue, which is John Fetterman thinks he's above other people and above the law.
[00:06:24]  That's why he takes draconian positions, but he doesn't enforce them for himself.
[00:06:29]  I want everyone in our national audience to understand John Fetterman is more dangerous than Bernie Sanders.
[00:06:34]  He is a caricature that is right out of Hollywood, and they think so low of the average Pennsylvanian.
[00:06:42]  They think that if you just kind of dress as if you're some sort of middle American guy, he has no, like the tattoos and the shorts, it's all a fraud.
[00:06:50]  So, Dr. Oz, we need to get the MAGA base unified and consolidated.
[00:06:56]  And I say on this program quite often that I think Republicans at times go to D.C. and do one thing after saying another.
[00:07:03]  The base is very upset kind of broadly with that kind of pattern of behavior.
[00:07:09]  So many politicians talk a good game and then they just turn around.
[00:07:13]  Can you speak to that for a little bit and give confidence to especially Trump voters in Pennsylvania that you'll be a strong vote in the U.S. Senate?
[00:07:21]  Charlie, thank you for all along at least hearing my perspectives and giving me some really helpful advice along these lines.
[00:07:27]  Let's just go back to my motivation.
[00:07:29]  I had a talk show.
[00:07:31]  I'm a heart surgeon.
[00:07:32]  I had a great life, Charlie.
[00:07:34]  I mean, the reason I'm running for the United States Senate is because I'm so upset, so concerned over the fate of our nation.
[00:07:41]  And I articulated very clearly, and I have done it every single day of our campaign, why I'm running.
[00:07:46]  To protect our American family values, to make sure that our kids are where they need to be, both in educational values, but also the content that they're learning.
[00:07:55]  I have strong sentiments about the need for us to have safe city streets.
[00:07:58]  It's why the Paternal Order of Police have endorsed me.
[00:08:00]  I've expressed my positions on the Second Amendment.
[00:08:03]  I mean, go down the list.
[00:08:04]  These are not issues that I wandered into.
[00:08:06]  I've thought about them deeply my entire life.
[00:08:09]  I worked on them like most people.
[00:08:11]  You know, you improve yourself as you go along.
[00:08:13]  There is no point in me giving up the life that I had to run for office, to go to Washington, just so I can go along and get along.
[00:08:20]  I'm going there to make sure that the issues that I feel passionately about, my whole family as well, does, are going to be addressed and that our Pennsylvania values are reflected in Washington.
[00:08:29]  And I've already told everybody, there's no way I'm serving more than two terms.
[00:08:32]  I'll term limit myself.
[00:08:34]  My wife might be a what and done person.
[00:08:36]  We'll find out.
[00:08:37]  I've even turned back my salary.
[00:08:39]  I don't want to get paid.
[00:08:40]  I want to go to Washington and repay a debt that my family has.
[00:08:43]  I've done very well in life.
[00:08:44]  I feel blessed by this nation, but if it wasn't for the fertile soil of America, the seeds of our family would never have been able to take root.
[00:08:50]  And I'm going to make sure that we pay back that debt plus some to make sure our country is well taken care of.
[00:08:56]  I don't owe anything to anybody.
[00:08:58]  I can't be bought.
[00:08:59]  I fought some big battles, Charlie, as you know.
[00:09:01]  I've taken on big pharma, big tech, big agronomical companies, taking on the U.S. government.
[00:09:05]  I've got scars to prove it.
[00:09:06]  I got bashed around on my show because I took strong stances for what I thought was important.
[00:09:11]  And I'm not changing now just because I'm going to Washington.
[00:09:15]  Repay a debt your family owes.
[00:09:16]  That's well said.
[00:09:18]  So, so, Dr. Roz, I want to clear up one piece of confusion here.
[00:09:22]  And this is something that I've talked to you about.
[00:09:24]  And it's just in the spirit of trying to get people clarity, which is your position on medical procedures for children using medical mutilation more specifically with trans kids.
[00:09:36]  Let's put this issue to rest.
[00:09:37]  What is your position on this topic?
[00:09:40]  I'm not in favor of minors having these procedures.
[00:09:43]  On my show, which was, as you know, a network television show, for 13 years, the top show in the world on health.
[00:09:48]  You have to have people from all different perspectives come on.
[00:09:51]  But just because a guest talks about a topic doesn't mean that I agree with their position.
[00:09:55]  My job is to give voice, which is what I did.
[00:09:58]  But I've been pretty clear on this issue, and I've been strongly supportive of using science to drive our decisions.
[00:10:03]  Not the perversion of science, not the weaponization of science, but actually what does it say to us?
[00:10:10]  What does it advise for us to do?
[00:10:11]  In the case of transgender issues, it's very much, I believe, supportive of not telling five-year-olds on these topics.
[00:10:19]  Because why teach algebra to a five-year-old?
[00:10:21]  They're not going to get it.
[00:10:22]  I have similar feelings about energy policy, where we have literally told people the Green New Deal is based on science when it's not.
[00:10:29]  If you actually look at the details of it, there's zero chance they can achieve what they set out to do in the Green New Deal, and they definitely can't do it in the timeline allowed it.
[00:10:38]  And just one step further, the only way to get close to it right now is to sell America to China, which we're not doing.
[00:10:44]  So let's fix our problems.
[00:10:45]  Let's address the opportunities we have because we've got so much natural gas in Pennsylvania, for example, I can supply the whole country for 200 years.
[00:10:52]  Let's use clean sources of energy while we build up those green sources.
[00:10:56]  And that's, I think, the path forward.
[00:10:58]  It's not one that's harmful to the environment, quite the opposite.
[00:11:01]  If you look at what's happening in California, you get a better perspective.
[00:11:04]  And I'll give you one last example: COVID.
[00:11:06]  That really got me upset because as a physician, I knew this area well.
[00:11:09]  I recognized that we were being lied to.
[00:11:12]  Literally told, for example, that our kids should be sent home from schools because it's too dangerous to open the schools.
[00:11:17]  But other countries kept their schools open.
[00:11:19]  They didn't seem to have a problem.
[00:11:20]  They loved their kids.
[00:11:21]  So these are examples where we have taken science, manipulated it, weaponized it, and hurt the American people.
[00:11:27]  We have to stop that.
[00:11:28]  And as Republicans, we have to engage.
[00:11:30]  Because the most, to me anyway, clarifying vision of the Republican Party was given to me by my father when I was a young boy.
[00:11:37]  I asked him, are we Republicans or Democrats?
[00:11:39]  He's an immigrant, so he didn't have a party.
[00:11:41]  And he said, we're going to be Republicans.
[00:11:42]  So I said, why?
[00:11:44]  Said, because Republicans have better ideas.
[00:11:46]  Let's be the party of better ideas.
[00:11:48]  That's right.
[00:11:50]  The Senate will go the way of the Pennsylvania Senate race.
[00:11:53]  The race is tightening.
[00:11:54]  John Fetterman is raising money like crazy.
[00:11:57]  Let's play a piece of tape here, and then we'll get Dr. Oz's response, Play Cut 71.
[00:12:02]  We have a catastrophic bottleneck in our prisons of over 5,000 men and women condemned to die in prison.
[00:12:11]  And many of them, I believe, personally are deserving of a second chance.
[00:12:17]  Dr. Oz, your response.
[00:12:19]  My problem is when you say draconian things like, I'm going to get a third of the prisoners out, or I don't want to have life sentences anymore for convicted murders.
[00:12:30]  You're taking a lot of largesse.
[00:12:33]  You're claiming a lot of power that should be left to juries and judges.
[00:12:38]  That's why they put these people in jail.
[00:12:40]  I mean, one person that he's released was called the son of the devil.
[00:12:44]  He accused some of his people, the folks who would testify against him of being liars and then said he was going to kill them.
[00:12:52]  I mean, this is not a kind of person.
[00:12:53]  He let back out again.
[00:12:54]  He actually said he killed other people besides the person he was convicted of.
[00:12:58]  Now, the problem with John Fetterman is he doesn't deal with the ramifications of these cool statements he makes.
[00:13:03]  He tweets them out, 140 characters, and then he can't stand by and defend them, which is the reason why he's ducking the base.
[00:13:10]  Now, he might, because he claims he's healthy, might just be wisely staying away from me because he knows I'm going to ask you tough questions because that's what we do in campaigns.
[00:13:19]  But he also just might be sick, in which case he's been lying about that.
[00:13:22]  Either way, it's not democratic to avoid entering all questions.
[00:13:27]  And I'm going to make this clear for all listeners out there because you've got a big national audience.
[00:13:31]  This man has not answered a question on the campaign trail.
[00:13:34]  He hasn't campaigned much, by the way.
[00:13:36]  He's maybe spoken less than half an hour total the entire time since we've been in a general election, which has been a couple of months.
[00:13:42]  But he has not answered a single question from a voter.
[00:13:45]  He's not answered a question from the press on the campaign trail.
[00:13:47]  He's not answered a question from me.
[00:13:49]  All he does is bark out little comments, trolling comments that have no benefit to the people of Pennsylvania.
[00:13:56]  I keep asking him, defend those comments about the crime.
[00:13:59]  Defend your comments about why you want to legalize all drugs.
[00:14:03]  While we are in the middle of a fentanyl crisis, with Philadelphia being the hotspot, we have the biggest open-air drug market in the country.
[00:14:10]  And he wants to legalize all drugs, open the border, and let Fenton look across.
[00:14:14]  I mean, please, how does that work?
[00:14:15]  And it expands beyond crime and lawlessness.
[00:14:18]  And the reason that the fraternal order of police endorsed me unanimously was because he's been so toxic on these issues.
[00:14:25]  He undermines police at every level.
[00:14:27]  Besides being rude personally to them, he has been overwhelmingly against them on every issue.
[00:14:33]  When the cops run towards a crisis, he blames them no matter what happens.
[00:14:36]  Not surprisingly, the cops stop running towards the crisis after a while because no one's enforcing the law.
[00:14:42]  So talk just for a second here as our time comes to an end here, Doctor.

=== Defending Conservative Values (04:16) ===

[00:14:47]  Kind of the race as he's not campaigning.
[00:14:50]  He's not debating.
[00:14:51]  He's raising tons of money, though.
[00:14:54]  And you're being outspent, but the polls are tightening.
[00:14:57]  Talk about the national implications of this race.
[00:14:59]  You will protect the filibuster.
[00:15:01]  You're going to open up fracking and natural gas.
[00:15:04]  You're obviously a huge no-on-green New Deal.
[00:15:06]  You'll vote for good judges.
[00:15:07]  You'll do oversight of the IRS.
[00:15:10]  Doctor, what is that?
[00:15:12]  Yes, yes.
[00:15:13]  And I know that because we've talked about those things.
[00:15:16]  But talk about how Fetterman is the polar opposite.
[00:15:19]  He'll expand the IRS, Green New Deal.
[00:15:21]  He'll get rid of the filibuster.
[00:15:24]  It's beyond catastrophic, but he's raising tons of money.
[00:15:27]  He's kind of become the darling of Act Blue.
[00:15:30]  Talk about that, Dr. Oz.
[00:15:31]  Well, first, if you're as upset as everybody should be about the fact that the Democratic Party is trying to buy a Senate seat in Pennsylvania, please go to droz.com and support us.
[00:15:40]  We not only have pulled much tighter in the polls, we're going to win this race.
[00:15:44]  The momentum is unquestionably in our favor.
[00:15:46]  We even have liberal media attacking him from hiding, from dodging, from ducking from the debate issue because he can't defend his positions.
[00:15:53]  Even on taxes, where he has argued to increase massively the taxes on the middle-class working person, he personally 67 times didn't pay his taxes.
[00:16:03]  And now he's trying to excuse ACJ.
[00:16:05]  Oh, it steps through the cracks.
[00:16:06]  The issue for the Democratic Party is they're trying to manufacture a candidate.
[00:16:11]  They know he's a fraud.
[00:16:11]  They don't like him.
[00:16:12]  They didn't want him to be their candidate.
[00:16:13]  They're shocked that he won the primary.
[00:16:15]  But they're trying to protect him because he doesn't go out in the campaign trail.
[00:16:19]  He can't defend his actions and he's a bad candidate.
[00:16:22]  So they're going to, and they have been.
[00:16:24]  It's like selling cereal box.
[00:16:26]  You know, they're just creating this fictional character they're saying is a perfect Democratic candidate.
[00:16:31]  But to your point, he's the darling of the left media.
[00:16:34]  So they protect him at every turn.
[00:16:36]  And when I attack him, they try to respond for him.
[00:16:39]  That doesn't work in democracy.
[00:16:40]  Yeah, well, the people of Hess are being too smart for that.
[00:16:42]  That's right.
[00:16:43]  Just keep the pressure on.
[00:16:44]  This has become a national race.
[00:16:46]  I just want to reiterate this for our audience.
[00:16:48]  If Fetterman wins, you're going to have a much taller Bernie Sanders, and he'll be senator for as long.
[00:16:53]  He's not going to serve a day.
[00:16:54]  He's a spoiled, rich brat.
[00:16:57]  And Dr. Oz is putting the pressure on him.
[00:17:00]  It's very important Pennsylvania race.
[00:17:02]  Dr. Oz, keep campaigning hard.
[00:17:04]  We're behind you and keep the pressure on John.
[00:17:06]  Thanks, my friend.
[00:17:06]  God bless you for the support.
[00:17:07]  Thank you.
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[00:18:14]  He has, like it or not, defined the politics of our age.
[00:18:22]  In 2016 and 2020, he was the political leader most fit to lead in our warlike circumstances.
[00:18:34]  Trump inspired a movement.
[00:18:37]  If properly deployed, this movement might challenge the woke comm and, God willing, save the country.
[00:18:47]  Republicans, however, should not forget that it is his support and the spirit they embrace that have become the life force of the Republican Party.

=== Trump's Movement and Virtues (09:22) ===

[00:19:03]  Among the talked about alternatives to Trump, I have not yet seen anyone who possesses or even fully understands Trump's virtue, nor have I seen anyone with his backbone and fortitude.
[00:19:20]  One does not appreciate the strength of relentless gale force winds until one is in the eye of the storm.
[00:19:31]  That there is a speech that I have had emailed me and texted to me more so than anything else in recent memory.
[00:19:40]  It's Tom Klingenstein who argues about Trump's virtues.
[00:19:48]  And he's the chair of the wonderful Claremont Institute, which I benefited from tremendously.
[00:19:54]  In fact, I have another seminar I'm going to be doing with them in January.
[00:19:58]  And he joins us right now.
[00:19:59]  Tom, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:20:01]  Well, thank you for having me.
[00:20:03]  So what are Trump's virtues?
[00:20:05]  I'm told by the activist media and academia, he's nothing but an irritant and the worst stain on American politics.
[00:20:13]  What are Trump's virtues?
[00:20:15]  You know, before I answer that, you know, your viewers might be interested to learn that he called me last night.
[00:20:21]  He doesn't know me from Adam.
[00:20:23]  He read my speech.
[00:20:25]  He said he read it twice.
[00:20:27]  And he said it in a way that made you think, gee, maybe he doesn't read things twice.
[00:20:33]  But obviously he liked this one.
[00:20:36]  I asked him at some point, what were the two or three things he'd do differently were he elected?
[00:20:43]  And he had a good answer, I think.
[00:20:45]  It was people, people, people.
[00:20:49]  He knew that he had been ill-served.
[00:20:52]  He was asking the wrong people, he said, for personnel advice.
[00:20:56]  And this time, he'd do it differently.
[00:20:59]  Now, as to his virtues, I was at a dinner party not long ago, and you know, the people next to me, Republicans, didn't think he had any virtues.
[00:21:11]  He made America the center of political things.
[00:21:16]  He laid bare the divide in this country.
[00:21:20]  The press says that he caused a divide.
[00:21:23]  No, he revealed a divide.
[00:21:25]  He showed us that we're in a war.
[00:21:27]  He smoked rats out of hiding.
[00:21:30]  He showed us just how corrupt the press and the intelligence agencies are.
[00:21:36]  He's courageous.
[00:21:37]  He's independent.
[00:21:38]  He's fearless.
[00:21:40]  He loves America unreservedly.
[00:21:43]  And at this moment, when we suffer from self-loathing, when our young kids are taught to hate their country, unreserved patriotism is critical.
[00:21:57]  There's one other thing that's important that people don't talk about very much, and that is his absence of white guilt.
[00:22:05]  White guilt is killing us.
[00:22:08]  White guilt is behind affirmative action and what I call outcome equality.
[00:22:16]  And he doesn't have it.
[00:22:18]  Unfortunately, most of the Republicans still have a certain amount of white guilt.
[00:22:25]  And that makes them, and that makes it difficult for them to defeat the America is racist narrative.
[00:22:34]  Where does white guilt come from?
[00:22:35]  And why does Trump reject it?
[00:22:37]  He's from New York.
[00:22:38]  I thought that's in the water there.
[00:22:40]  You know, God knows.
[00:22:42]  Why is Trump, you know, who he is?
[00:22:45]  You know, I don't know.
[00:22:47]  Partly, you know, if you come from New York, you come from a very diverse environment, right?
[00:22:54]  In a way, you're more likely to be colorblind.
[00:22:56]  You've grown up with black Americans, et cetera.
[00:23:01]  No, that's so true.
[00:23:02]  I could say from my own personal experience, I went to a high school that was 53% Hispanic subversive Chicago.
[00:23:07]  I never thought about race very much, and it certainly didn't compel me towards some sort of reparation, affirmative action type driving argument.
[00:23:15]  And I tell you something else.
[00:23:17]  You know, Trump grew up in a time when we thought colorblindness was a virtue.
[00:23:24]  And he's learned that, I think.
[00:23:27]  Now, you talk about courage.
[00:23:29]  Why do you find him to be courageous?
[00:23:34]  Well, you know, he's very comfortable in his own skin.
[00:23:37]  I mean, you know as well as anybody just how much courage it took to stand up against four or five years of unmitigated abuse.
[00:23:50]  You know, people talk about Ron DeSantis, and I like Ron DeSantis as a possible Republican nominee, but we don't know exactly how he would stand up until really he's in the eye of the storm.
[00:24:05]  But I think a lot of it comes down to he's just comfortable who he is, and that allows for courage and independence, as I say.
[00:24:14]  He knows who he is.
[00:24:16]  Now, for a lot of the Republican establishment, they look at nothing but the vices and not the virtues.
[00:24:21]  In fact, I mean, you were just talking about a Republican event where donors say, I can't stand his tone.
[00:24:27]  I don't like the tweets.
[00:24:29]  He's got an ego.
[00:24:30]  He's self-righteous.
[00:24:31]  He cuts corners and all of this.
[00:24:33]  How do you balance any potential criticism with the virtues?
[00:24:37]  The great people that we honor, Abraham Lincoln and Churchill, they also had vices as well.
[00:24:42]  How are we supposed to balance that in how we judge what politician we want to put into office to run the regime?
[00:24:51]  Or maybe another example of somebody that we overlooked his vitups, and that's General Grant, who Lincoln picked because at that moment, he needed one person to fight.
[00:25:05]  Nobody else was willing to fight.
[00:25:07]  And Lincoln didn't care if he was a drunkard.
[00:25:10]  And it was rumored that, you know, Grant had other sort of loose morals, but he was the man for the moment.
[00:25:19]  So I think, you know, most of his vices, I don't really care about.
[00:25:24]  It's one thing if I'm looking for somebody to have dinner with, but it's very different if you want somebody to run a country at just in this moment.
[00:25:36]  As I say, he has virtues that other people don't have.
[00:25:40]  You know, if everybody was like Trump or everybody had his courage and all the rest of it, well, then his vices would matter.
[00:25:46]  But I don't care at all that he's narcissistic.
[00:25:49]  And by the way, having, you know, speaking to a lot of politicians, I don't know that Trump is any more narcissistic than your typical politician.
[00:25:59]  He may expose it more.
[00:26:01]  So in any case, I think the vices are not particularly substantial.
[00:26:06]  Again, because I'm not inviting him to my house.
[00:26:09]  I don't care about almost all the vices.
[00:26:13]  And some of what he does, you know, I really disapprove of, but it doesn't matter at this moment.
[00:26:20]  And that's the message I would want to deliver to your audience and other people who do, I mean, really hate the guy.
[00:26:27]  Well, the choice is Trump or Biden.
[00:26:30]  I don't, you know, I don't care how much you hate the guy.
[00:26:33]  Yeah, but a lot of people don't look at it that way.
[00:26:35]  They say he's not a nice person.
[00:26:37]  He isn't, you know, I want to have someone I can have a beer with.
[00:26:41]  Why should we view politics differently than that?
[00:26:43]  I mean, mean tweets and all of that.
[00:26:44]  Obviously, it's the prudent question versus kind of the personality question, but Americans don't view things that way, but they should.
[00:26:54]  I call Donald Trump the bodyguard of Western civilization.
[00:26:57]  When you hire a bodyguard, you're not exactly interested in his tweet history.
[00:27:01]  You want someone that's going to protect your family against what might be coming near and dear.
[00:27:05]  We're in a moment where the stakes are very, very high.
[00:27:09]  Talk a little bit about how people usually focus more on things that don't matter than actually things that do matter.
[00:27:16]  You know, we're a very moral country, I think.
[00:27:19]  And we don't necessarily think in terms of realpolitik.
[00:27:24]  We don't necessarily think in terms of prudence, right?
[00:27:28]  It's sometimes prudent to favor the in man.
[00:27:34]  And that's an understanding of prudence that I think Americans don't have.
[00:27:39]  And when they look at historical figures, Lincoln Churchill, you know, they see things that they've said that seem objectionable without understanding that they were prudent necessities.
[00:27:53]  Right?
[00:27:53]  When Lincoln said that he didn't want social equality for black Americans, he didn't believe it, but he had to say it.
[00:28:02]  And I think that's not a politics that we Americans are very comfortable with.
[00:28:08]  Do you think some of the action from the Department of Justice and these other government agencies in response?
[00:28:14]  Because deep down, the people that are smart on the left understand how big of a threat he is.
[00:28:19]  And actually, what you would call his virtues, they would say those are his threats to their power.

=== Historical Prudence vs Backlash (02:51) ===

[00:28:25]  I think exactly right.
[00:28:27]  I mean, I think, you know, I don't have any, you know, profound thoughts on this other than they're out to get him.
[00:28:32]  The question is how far they go.
[00:28:35]  At some point, there's a backlash.
[00:28:39]  I think they're smart enough to avoid it, but I don't know.
[00:28:42]  But I think your point, they fear him.
[00:28:45]  They wouldn't bother to deal with him if they didn't fear him.
[00:28:48]  They fear him and they ought to fear him because he's a threat to their way of life.
[00:28:53]  Then what is the proper response then to their seeming over-politicization of everything?
[00:28:59]  How do we respond to that?
[00:29:00]  How would, if you were giving Trump advice or wisdom or counsel, how should he respond?
[00:29:06]  Well, give me an example.
[00:29:07]  Well, I mean, they raid his home.
[00:29:08]  They're seemingly going to potentially indict him on all these different things.
[00:29:12]  He's under five different investigations.
[00:29:13]  You have all this different stuff going on.
[00:29:15]  Let's say they do indictment, indict him.
[00:29:18]  How would Trump possibly respond?
[00:29:21]  Well, he's got to defend himself.
[00:29:22]  He's got to do exactly what he's doing now, using this as an example of government overreach.
[00:29:31]  I mean, this is what he's good at, it seems to me, is calling attention to these kinds of abuses.
[00:29:37]  But I don't know what else he can do.
[00:29:40]  Potentially run for office.
[00:29:42]  We shall see.
[00:29:43]  Right.
[00:29:44]  Yes, I think, you know, I mean, you don't have any doubt that he's going to run for office.
[00:29:51]  I asked him, and he gave his standard speech or standard response was: you're going to like my answer.
[00:30:00]  And then he asked me, Should I announce before or after the midterms?
[00:30:06]  I said, you know, that's your department.
[00:30:08]  I don't know about that.
[00:30:09]  But there can't be any doubt, can there?
[00:30:12]  I have been asked the same question as well.
[00:30:15]  Amazing speech.
[00:30:16]  It is.
[00:30:17]  And also, winning the Cold Civil War is also another great speech as well.
[00:30:20]  But Trump's Virtues by Tom Klingenstein is just terrific.
[00:30:27]  Uncle Tom 2 is an eye-opening documentary everyone in America should see.
[00:30:31]  Charlie Kirk here.
[00:30:32]  Uncle Tom 2 offers a compelling and brave analysis of the true history of Black America.
[00:30:37]  It talks about the cultural shift from prosperity, integrity, and faith to its current perceived state of anger, discontent, and victimhood.
[00:30:46]  Uncle Tom 2 offers historical footage, photos, correspondence, and data to reveal the genuine strides of black America in the 20th century, the deliberate Marxist strategy to create racial tension and replace God with government, the NAACP's sinister agenda, the truth behind Black Lives Matter, and more.
[00:31:03]  Don't miss Uncle Tom 2 from executive producer Larry Elder and director Justin Malone.
[00:31:08]  With Brandon Tatum, Vodie Bockham, and Chad O'Jackson, watch the movie on demand and buy the DVD now at SalemNow.com.
[00:31:14]  That's salemnow.com.

=== Questioning Systemic Racism (04:27) ===

[00:31:16]  Check it out.
[00:31:16]  Salemnow.com.
[00:31:22]  Bonnie said, Charlie, I just love this guest.
[00:31:25]  I've had the same argument about Trump, but he articulates it better than me.
[00:31:28]  Tom is amazing.
[00:31:29]  Have him on again, please.
[00:31:31]  Question your Trump's virtues.
[00:31:32]  Charlie, I think Trump's virtues are he loves the United States of America.
[00:31:35]  It drives nearly everything he's done politically.
[00:31:37]  If you can find out what motivates a man, you could pretty good idea of a character.
[00:31:41]  That's very true.
[00:31:43]  You've been reading your classics.
[00:31:44]  Also, he's smart, thoughtful, bold, and unafraid.
[00:31:46]  He's a great speaker and motivator, and he embraces technology.
[00:31:49]  That's off the top of my head.
[00:31:50]  There are probably more.
[00:31:51]  Dawn, emailed us, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:31:53]  She's a loyal listener.
[00:31:54]  Thank you.
[00:31:55]  He's very honest.
[00:31:56]  And I will say another thing that I deeply respect about him.
[00:31:59]  He works.
[00:32:00]  I'll tell you what.
[00:32:01]  The guy puts in the hours.
[00:32:03]  Remember, they used to attack Donald Trump for golfing too much and for going on vacation.
[00:32:09]  And now Joe Biden, I think, has been on vacation a majority of his entire presidency.
[00:32:15]  Someone said here, freedom at charliekirk.com, Charlie, Tom should be in the next cabinet of Trump 2.0.
[00:32:22]  Hard to disagree.
[00:32:24]  Tom, let me ask you: you've talked about a cold civil war, and we talked about that the last time you were on the show.
[00:32:29]  Did this Cold Civil War just get hot with all of the raids, the indictments, the subpoenas, or are we still in that cold portion?
[00:32:37]  I think it's still cold.
[00:32:39]  Maybe it's closer to hot.
[00:32:41]  And it may be, if you're cynical, that part of the rationale for the raid was to incite the right, right?
[00:32:50]  The left, when I'm calling the woke comms, are looking for reasons to oppress, particularly white males, right?
[00:32:59]  The whole argument is America is systemically racist, about to be overrun by white supremacists.
[00:33:07]  And if the right were to take to the street, that would help confirm the woke comm narrative.
[00:33:15]  I don't think we're there yet, but I think we're getting closer.
[00:33:19]  Why is it that people?
[00:33:22]  Let me rephrase that.
[00:33:22]  So you talk about the war on white men.
[00:33:26]  Why is there fixation on white men so much?
[00:33:29]  And why we're not even allowed to talk about this out loud, but obviously we're comfortable doing so.
[00:33:33]  Why are they so focused on that?
[00:33:34]  The woke comms.
[00:33:37]  Well, because their whole thesis, they need to find a scapegoat.
[00:33:43]  They need to find some group that explains why black Americans are not performing as well in many areas of human life.
[00:33:55]  They need a scapegoat.
[00:33:57]  Totalitarian regimes always need a scapegoat.
[00:34:02]  They vilify the scapegoat and then terrorize it.
[00:34:07]  And, you know, white males serve that purpose today.
[00:34:11]  Unfortunately, I think you're right.
[00:34:13]  So let me close by saying this: which is outside of Trump running, what can an everyday person do to counter this totalitarian regime, to feel empowered and to do something meaningful?
[00:34:28]  What's the most important, kind of most operative action they can take?
[00:34:34]  They have to resist it.
[00:34:35]  When they're called a racist, they have to stand up to it.
[00:34:41]  You know, some people don't want to work, let's say, for Trump's new social media platform because they feel that they're blacklisted.
[00:34:49]  Well, that's the kind of thing that they have to do.
[00:34:53]  They can't, as Solson Eatson said, live by lies.
[00:34:58]  So, in their small ways, and they're small ways, but they're important ways.
[00:35:02]  They have to stand up to what they believe.
[00:35:05]  They cannot accept this narrative that America is systemically racist.
[00:35:11]  When they hear it, they have to rebut it.
[00:35:13]  And they have to be willing, and it's not easy, to withstand the charge of racism.
[00:35:20]  Well said.
[00:35:20]  Tom Klingenstein, we are going to post your stuff on charliekirk.com.
[00:35:25]  Trump's virtues and also winning the Cold Civil War.
[00:35:27]  I hope to meet you sometime soon.
[00:35:29]  Thank you so much.
[00:35:30]  Charlie, thank you very much.
[00:35:31]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:35:33]  Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:35:35]  Thanks so much for listening.
[00:35:37]  God bless.
[00:35:39]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.