The Charlie Kirk Show - My Conversation with Michael Malice
Aired: 2022-08-20
Duration: 01:00:30


=== Support Our Research Team (02:19) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:00]  Today in the Charlie Kirk Show, super important episode.
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[00:01:00]  Action-packed episode, everybody.
[00:01:02]  Thank you for supporting us.
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[00:01:04]  And also get involved at TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com.
[00:01:08]  Can't forget that.
[00:01:09]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:01:10]  Here we go.
[00:01:11]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:01:13]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
[00:01:15]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:01:18]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:01:22]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:01:23]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:24]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
[00:01:32]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:41]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:44]  Good afternoon, Michael Malice here.
[00:01:46]  Let that be your welcome for the next hour.
[00:01:48]  We have with us a special guest, head of Turning Point USA, author of the new book, The College Scam, Charlie Kirk, king of the boomer cons.
[00:01:57]  Welcome to the show and thanks for taking the time.
[00:02:00]  Thanks.
[00:02:00]  Hey, we got plenty of students too.
[00:02:02]  I'm not just known for a relief factor, but I'll take the compliment.
[00:02:06]  Okay.
[00:02:07]  Before we get started talking about the book, because things have changed a lot since I was in college and nowadays and for the better in many ways and for the worse in many other ways, you were trending last week on Twitter.

=== Fighting Freedom on Campuses (14:49) ===

[00:02:19]  Hashtag Sue the View was trending.
[00:02:23]  Can you break down what they were accusing Turning Points USA of and why you chose to send a cease and assist letter?
[00:02:33]  Yeah, it was one of the weirdest stories I've ever lived through, to be honest with you.
[00:02:36]  So we have our big Turning Point USA Student Action Summit.
[00:02:39]  We had 5,000 conservative students from all across America attending.
[00:02:43]  And someone came to me and said, hey, Charlie, there's some Nazis outside.
[00:02:47]  What are you talking about?
[00:02:47]  There's Nazis outside.
[00:02:48]  They said, yeah, there's like, there's five or six people with masks on with, you know, swastikas.
[00:02:53]  And I said, well, get rid of them.
[00:02:54]  I said, this is probably either a Fed or a plant or something.
[00:02:57]  There's no way this is real.
[00:02:58]  It's like some sort of op.
[00:03:00]  And we couldn't get rid of them.
[00:03:01]  They're on public property.
[00:03:02]  Some of our Turning Point USA students go out there and start debating and like shouting at them, like, get away from here.
[00:03:07]  We have nothing.
[00:03:08]  We want nothing to do with this.
[00:03:09]  It's disgusting.
[00:03:10]  Like, how dare you fly a swastika, which I completely agree with, by the way.
[00:03:13]  It's just reprehensible.
[00:03:15]  And so then.
[00:03:17]  You completely agree with telling them to not fly it.
[00:03:20]  Yeah.
[00:03:20]  I mean, I completely agree with it.
[00:03:22]  Go ahead.
[00:03:22]  Sorry.
[00:03:24]  I agreed with them saying, get the heck off the property, right?
[00:03:27]  Obviously, they have a constitutional right to be there.
[00:03:29]  But if I'm renting out the convention center, I don't want a swastika outside of the convention center.
[00:03:35]  I don't want to be associated with that.
[00:03:36]  I think it's disgusting and reprehensible.
[00:03:38]  And so, yeah, anyway, so our security said we can't remove them, public property.
[00:03:42]  They're fully masked, the whole thing.
[00:03:44]  And then they leave.
[00:03:45]  And so then the media wrote up a story and we condemned, obviously, what happened immediately.
[00:03:49]  And the media said, okay, there are these Nazi protesters outside, which again, I will reinforce.
[00:03:54]  I believe we're Democrat operatives.
[00:03:56]  And I have plenty of reason to believe that.
[00:03:58]  Happy to dive into it if that's interesting.
[00:04:01]  But it's just the evidence is pointing in that direction.
[00:04:04]  In fact, we're dedicating a lot of resources to actually prove it in a variety of different technological ways.
[00:04:09]  But anyway, so we denounce it, we condemn it.
[00:04:11]  You know, there's a couple of media stories about it, and then it dies down.
[00:04:14]  And then the View decides to go do a whole segment on our event where Joy Behar started to say, well, you know, well, outside of the event, they had all this Nazi propaganda and all this.
[00:04:22]  And then Whoopee Goldberg says, Yeah, and they let them into the event.
[00:04:26]  Oh, and so that's that's slanderous, right?
[00:04:30]  And it's so transparently slanderous because, I mean, we, it's well known how we reacted to it.
[00:04:35]  You just have to look it up.
[00:04:36]  We condemned it with a press release, the whole thing.
[00:04:38]  And so then she comes after the break because obviously legal gotten her ear and they said, Whoopee, you can't say that.
[00:04:44]  And so then she says very sloppily, well, what I mean is that they were metaphorically with you.
[00:04:49]  They were amongst your midst, which again, it's like it's a slanderous apology, right?
[00:04:54]  And so then the next thing.
[00:04:56]  I got to ask, how is someone in your midst if they're in the periphery?
[00:04:59]  Well, the whole thing is so bizarre.
[00:05:01]  By the way, can I just state the obvious?
[00:05:03]  If Nazis are protesting me, am I doing something right?
[00:05:06]  Like, shouldn't that also be part of what they mentioned?
[00:05:10]  But of course not.
[00:05:11]  So then the next day, the third chapter in this multi-chapter thing, they had a woman by the name of Sarah Haynes.
[00:05:18]  So I'm sorry, we sent a cease and desist then over the evening, and then they decide to actually respond to our cease and desist because I think they realize that they might have been over some very trouble, you know, troubling legal footing, especially after Nicholas Sandman and Kyle Rittenhouse and some of these other major decisions.
[00:05:34]  And so then Sarah Haynes, I think that's her name.
[00:05:36]  She seems like a sweet woman.
[00:05:37]  I know nothing about her, her politics, but she had nothing to do with the previous commentary.
[00:05:41]  She reads this thing on air, but she says, okay, Turning Point USA would like us to do this.
[00:05:47]  We are acknowledging they had nothing to do with it.
[00:05:49]  It was actually pretty good.
[00:05:50]  And she said, for that, we apologize.
[00:05:52]  And I thought that was the end of it.
[00:05:53]  Okay, Whoopee's not going to say anything.
[00:05:55]  Then this morning it continues where then Whoopee Goldberg comes out and she says, All right, on Monday, I said that they were part of it.
[00:06:04]  And I hate when people misconstrue things that aren't true.
[00:06:07]  And so, my bad.
[00:06:09]  I'm sorry.
[00:06:11]  And so it's this kind of, we went from the view try to compare us to Nazis to kind of multiple apologies.
[00:06:17]  But I'll tell you this: it would not have happened if we did not respond with force.
[00:06:20]  If we did not respond with a cease and desist letter and threaten legal action, which we're still entertaining, by the way, none of this would have happened.
[00:06:27]  Yeah, I think what there's two things that happened in the last in the post-Trump years, which I'm curious to hear your thoughts about, which is before Trump, and still to some extent to this day, declaring someone to be a racist was enough to read them out of polite society.
[00:06:43]  And frankly, that's not incorrect.
[00:06:45]  If someone is advocating for things like slavery or segregation or like that, I think that's a non-starter for, I think, the vast majority of Americans of both political parties.
[00:06:55]  When Trump came in and they were calling him every name under the book, including literally Hitler, figuratively Hitler, and the Antichrist, that mechanism ceased to be effective, but they stopped using that tool.
[00:07:05]  They continues that to excuse me.
[00:07:07]  And now it's become a point where it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:07:10]  How for conservatives, I think, how have we let you for years just accuse us of advocating for genocide and just like, all right, you know, you're in the biggest talk show host.
[00:07:21]  You're on the Karen mothership to view.
[00:07:23]  We're just going to sit here and just be like, we disagree.
[00:07:27]  Disagreeing is like, you know, you could disagree about tax policy and so forth.
[00:07:30]  To accuse someone of advocating for an extermination of a race, I think is a whole other thing.
[00:07:36]  Yeah, totally.
[00:07:37]  Sorry.
[00:07:38]  Go ahead.
[00:07:38]  That was it.
[00:07:39]  Your thoughts, please.
[00:07:40]  No, I mean, first of all, just how dumb do you have to be to just not like, hold on a second?
[00:07:43]  If I'm going to say something on air, would a 5,000-person event with DeSantis and Trump really let Nazis in?
[00:07:48]  Like, come on.
[00:07:48]  I mean, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
[00:07:50]  That's actually how they view the world, though.
[00:07:52]  They're like, ooh, they must have let them in.
[00:07:54]  Like as if that there is not standards in the conservative movement between, I don't know, Nazis?
[00:08:00]  Like, hello?
[00:08:02]  I mean, you think that that would even be remotely tolerated?
[00:08:04]  But yes, I mean, they're, I call this the weaponized name calling.
[00:08:08]  They used to be able to get conservatives to go into a place of paralysis by just calling us racist, bigot, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic.
[00:08:16]  And that just doesn't really work anymore at all.
[00:08:19]  And now all of a sudden conservatives, thanks to Trump, in my personal opinion, have more of a backbone and are willing to fight and are willing to punch back twice as hard.
[00:08:28]  Were you surprised to see how quickly the view folded as opposed to doubling down?
[00:08:33]  Yes, shocked.
[00:08:35]  And I think the one reason is Nicholas Sandman and Kyle Rittenhouse, I think these legal departments are incredibly skittish.
[00:08:40]  And I think we don't know the numbers, but I think we're getting a little bit of indication that the payouts to Sandman were probably pretty sizable.
[00:08:50]  Because think about it.
[00:08:50]  This is very similar.
[00:08:52]  These are minors at an event.
[00:08:54]  Same way they smeared Nicholas Sandman, they smeared our students, right?
[00:08:58]  And so I don't think they did it out of just some sort of commitment to moral centeredness.
[00:09:02]  I think the legal department and ABC got on the phone and said, you're going to do this.
[00:09:05]  You're going to do it now.
[00:09:06]  Non-negotiable because we don't want to be in court, you know, having to contest the $200 million judgment.
[00:09:11]  Yeah, my understanding is there's different kinds of defamation.
[00:09:14]  There's defamation, which is based on actual malice, like they are intentionally lying, but there's also defamation of prima fascia, something fasci, but basically on its face, meaning I'm just accusing you of, you know, musting a child or so on and so forth.
[00:09:29]  It is incumbent upon me to be really sure that I've done my homework before I'm making such an accusation publicly, because it's something that is so defamatory that any reasonable person would look at your reputation in a worse regard.
[00:09:43]  So all it would take would be like one even quasi-reasonable jury to be like, okay, was this person, Whoopi Goldberg, negligent in terms of what she was saying?
[00:09:53]  And is what she was saying the kind of thing that would harm the reputation of Turning Point as an organization.
[00:09:59]  And I think it would not be very hard to make the case for both of those things.
[00:10:04]  Yeah.
[00:10:04]  And some lawyers agree at that.
[00:10:06]  Some disagree.
[00:10:06]  We're in the shopping phase of kind of, I should say, it's discovery and searching phase.
[00:10:10]  Other lawyers say there's all these other thresholds you have to hit because a public figure and all this stuff.
[00:10:14]  But we're not, we are going into it with the intent to hold them accountable legally.
[00:10:20]  A lawyer is going to have to talk me out of it.
[00:10:22]  Again, this stuff gets immensely complicated because of New York Times v. Sullivan, the laws and the threshold to do that.
[00:10:28]  Again, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I, you know, I do have a desire to defend our students who are the real victims here, right?
[00:10:37]  I mean, you have a 16-year-old kid at our student action summit who then has to go home and be called a Nazi sympathizer by Whoopi Goldberg.
[00:10:45]  It's inexcusable.
[00:10:48]  This also speaks to what happened during the Glenn Youngkin campaign.
[00:10:52]  Yes.
[00:10:54]  It was admitted that there were members of the Bulwark who hired students to have the tiki torches that were marching.
[00:11:00]  I think he's a Lincoln project, but it's the same.
[00:11:02]  Same rough organized, well, same university.
[00:11:05]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:06]  But they had hired, admittedly, activists to dress up in the Charlottesville outfit, the khakis and the blue shirts.
[00:11:14]  They had the torches.
[00:11:16]  I think one of them was actually African-American, if I'm remembering correctly.
[00:11:19]  Yep, that's right.
[00:11:20]  That's to be a Nazi.
[00:11:22]  And well, look, it's just like, what's his name?
[00:11:24]  Could be the black face of white supremacy.
[00:11:25]  Yeah, Larry Elder.
[00:11:26]  Larry Elder.
[00:11:28]  And they were roundly condemned for this by many Democrats as well, saying that, you know, this is ridiculous and absurd.
[00:11:36]  What evidence do you have that you just alluded to earlier that these go ahead?
[00:11:42]  So first of all, they were all masked.
[00:11:43]  That's just part of it, right?
[00:11:44]  They didn't show their face at all.
[00:11:45]  Number two, if you look at the flags, which I'm happy to show your audience it, they look as if they came out of a package box.
[00:11:51]  They've never been flown before.
[00:11:52]  This is not some sort of like relic passed down of the Third Reich.
[00:11:55]  Like they just bought them, right?
[00:11:57]  The creases are still in the flags.
[00:11:58]  That's that's less powerful, but it's still powerful.
[00:12:00]  Number three, right before they showed up, there was a 200-person left-wing protest that just disappeared.
[00:12:06]  And then all of a sudden, these guys showed up within five minutes, like clockwork.
[00:12:10]  You could see it literally on the camera.
[00:12:11]  They all, the 200 go away, and then all of a sudden, these five new people kind of come center stage.
[00:12:16]  Number four, how outrageous some of the signs were.
[00:12:18]  I've never seen anything like that.
[00:12:20]  It was so over the top.
[00:12:21]  It was so incendiary.
[00:12:22]  It was so inflammatory.
[00:12:23]  It was so uncharacteristic of anything I've ever seen.
[00:12:25]  It looked as if someone was trying to create it for that sense.
[00:12:28]  Number five, the media could not care less who these people were.
[00:12:31]  It was super bizarre.
[00:12:32]  The media has done zero research into who these people are.
[00:12:36]  They're happy to cover it, but they didn't ask a question.
[00:12:38]  They didn't go up with a mic.
[00:12:40]  And number six, none of the left-wing protesters even went to go challenge them to try to pull down their masks.
[00:12:45]  You know, they're always being like, oh, yeah, go punch a Nazi.
[00:12:48]  Well, okay, there's an actual guy with the Nazi flag.
[00:12:49]  Why aren't you going up trying to pull down his mask and find out who that person is?
[00:12:52]  Instead, I don't know.
[00:12:53]  Taylor Lorenz is going after Libs of TikTok to find out that person's identity.
[00:12:57]  Or moms and dads are targeted to go for school board meetings, but you got a guy with a swastika and you don't even care about his identity.
[00:13:04]  Number seven, they were.
[00:13:06]  So I'll give you another one.
[00:13:07]  A student went up to him and asked this guy, Hey, why are you a Nazi?
[00:13:09]  He said, I'm a Nazi because a black person killed my brother.
[00:13:13]  And we have this on film, by the way.
[00:13:14]  And so then 30 minutes later, another person goes up, hey, why are you a Nazi?
[00:13:17]  Oh, because a black person killed my sister.
[00:13:20]  And so their stories are changing throughout.
[00:13:22]  It's 100% artificial.
[00:13:24]  Not to mention, you film them.
[00:13:26]  The way they're talking is if they're left-wing agitators.
[00:13:29]  They're not talking like true believers.
[00:13:30]  They're like, oh, you guys are so weak.
[00:13:32]  Like, oh, you conservatives are all the same.
[00:13:34]  As if they went back to kind of like muscle memory of left-wing activists.
[00:13:38]  And so we're using Greg Phillips, who helped produce 2000 Mules through cell phone ping technology.
[00:13:44]  We're going to be able to geolocate these cell phones, create a pattern of life, find out where they were the last 18 months.
[00:13:49]  We're putting a lot of money behind this.
[00:13:50]  And because we know where they were and how long they were there, and find out, you know, where their home would be, because you could see where they would spend their nights and their weekends and their idle time.
[00:13:59]  Find out if they ever went to Democrat organizing areas.
[00:14:02]  And if they had their cell phones with them, which they did, and they had them before, which is probable, then we should be able to create a pattern of life behind these people.
[00:14:10]  And so the media doesn't care about who the Nazis are, but I certainly do.
[00:14:14]  And let me just say one final thing, which is I've never, ever seen any, I think I reinforced this though.
[00:14:20]  It's so uncharacteristic for anything.
[00:14:21]  It's just such obviously an op, right?
[00:14:23]  And then the final thing.
[00:14:24]  Oh, yeah, the other thing.
[00:14:25]  One guy had a DeSantis country flag.
[00:14:27]  It's like, okay, so you have a Nazi flag next to the DeSantis country flag.
[00:14:31]  The guy that helped move the embassy to Jerusalem enforces BDS in Florida and has been accused of being too close to Israel by Democrat opponents.
[00:14:43]  That's who the Nazis decide.
[00:14:44]  No, and then immediately the Democrat Party comes out and goes a press release.
[00:14:48]  They do a press conference.
[00:14:50]  Ron DeSantis is close to Nazis.
[00:14:52]  It just felt like a complete and total, it felt like an op.
[00:14:55]  It seems like they don't have their history right because if they're prejudiced against black Americans, they should be in the Klan, not the Nazis.
[00:15:00]  So they can't even get their kind of hate groups correct.
[00:15:03]  You know, yes, that's right.
[00:15:04]  Let me play devil's advocate a little bit.
[00:15:06]  Okay.
[00:15:06]  One of the big arguments conservatives often have is that free speech is being censored on places like Twitter and other forms of social media.
[00:15:14]  Aren't you just engaging in what you decry by bringing in attorneys to censor Whoopi Goldberg's free speech?
[00:15:20]  What would you answer?
[00:15:20]  No, I don't think so.
[00:15:21]  It's about minors.
[00:15:22]  Look, minors is where you draw the line.
[00:15:24]  I mean, if you smear a minor, then I think that the gloves are off.
[00:15:29]  I mean, you smear a 15-year-old.
[00:15:31]  I mean, this kid doesn't even have, he can't vote yet.
[00:15:34]  And you're calling him a Nazi, right?
[00:15:36]  I mean, I'm all for free speech, free expression, but we have libel laws for a reason and slander laws for a reason.
[00:15:41]  And so, but again, I'm different.
[00:15:43]  If you attack Charlie Kirk personally, that threshold has to be very high.
[00:15:47]  I really couldn't care less.
[00:15:48]  I get attacked all the time.
[00:15:49]  Okay.
[00:15:50]  Just whatever.
[00:15:51]  But you go attack a 15-year-old that went into his or her savings to go to Tampa, Florida from Missouri or Kentucky, and they show up to every single speaker and they're super polite.
[00:15:59]  And now maybe for the rest of their life, they have to go to a job interview.
[00:16:02]  Maybe they want to become a lawyer, pass the bar exam, go in front of an ethics board.
[00:16:05]  And they say, well, I see here that you attended an event early on in your life and there were neo-Nazis out there that according to some reports, that's how they would do it.
[00:16:13]  They were invited in.
[00:16:15]  According to some reports, they were invited in.
[00:16:17]  Do you have sympathies for neo-Nazis?
[00:16:19]  And that is not an exaggeration.
[00:16:20]  It happens to our kids all the time.
[00:16:22]  And so, look, I'm a total advocate for free speech, obviously, but I'm not going to put up with our kids being slandered.
[00:16:29]  And the other thing is if they ever attained a position of prominence, the Wikipedia would say, you know, Jeff Smith, exactly right.
[00:16:36]  Who has historically associated with Nazi events, and you don't even need to Google the person like their resume is going in the trash.
[00:16:44]  That's exactly right.
[00:16:46]  Frequently.
[00:16:47]  So that's kind of, it's, I'm just, I'm a little surprised.
[00:16:52]  I think a lot of people in this country, and I want to hear your thoughts about are whether they're black pilled or white-pilled, they are black-pilled.
[00:16:58]  And I'm like, my argument is I don't think the enemy class is made up of impressive people.
[00:17:03]  And I think it's not really that hard to just get in their face, tell them no.

=== Media Conspiracy Theories Are True (07:28) ===

[00:17:09]  And they, you know, it's not just Whoopi Goldberg who has to be accountable.
[00:17:12]  You have the entire ABC network or whether the syndicate or whatever, you know, you have a whole infrastructure there.
[00:17:19]  And they do have to cover their ass because it looks really bad if this blows up that you have Whoopi Goldberg cavalierly referring to high school students or college students as Nazi sympathizers.
[00:17:31]  Yes.
[00:17:31]  I mean, so I do agree.
[00:17:33]  I think the power, I'm going to use that term enemy class.
[00:17:35]  I'm going to totally steal it from you, by the way.
[00:17:37]  So great.
[00:17:38]  I love that.
[00:17:39]  And I totally agree with it.
[00:17:40]  But yeah, I don't think they're very smart.
[00:17:42]  I don't think they're exceptionally hardworking.
[00:17:44]  I think their power is in their institutions.
[00:17:46]  Yes.
[00:17:47]  That's where I think the institutions have legitimate staying power.
[00:17:50]  The machinery, the funding, the customer base, the brands, those things are legitimately powerful.
[00:17:56]  The rest are just interchangeable parts.
[00:17:58]  The real power, I mean, the actual, the smart people are all becoming center-right conservatives or free thinkers like you or whatever, just not, you know, a miserable, unhappy leftist, right?
[00:18:08]  That you see this with Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi, and you see this with Dave Rubin, that if you have anything interesting to say, or Russell Brand, or even to a lesser extent, Bill Maher or Joe Rogan, you know, all those guys, they're smart enough and good enough to survive on their own.
[00:18:23]  They don't need the interchangeable parts of the machinery.
[00:18:25]  I mean, do you think if Whoopi Goldberg right now started a podcast and did a radio show like I did for three hours a day, do you think it would be a hit?
[00:18:31]  I don't.
[00:18:32]  I don't think people would want, if it wasn't outside of the seat she had on the view, and the Charlie, let me interrupt you.
[00:18:37]  She had a radio show a few years ago before the view and it was DOA.
[00:18:43]  So it proves my point.
[00:18:44]  Yeah.
[00:18:44]  So the point is that she needs distribution, right?
[00:18:47]  So 135 million homes ABC goes into or it's probably even more than that.
[00:18:50]  It's probably 145 million homes.
[00:18:52]  They probably get three to 4 million viewers a day on the view, probably less than that, but whatever.
[00:18:56]  The point is that's distribution.
[00:18:58]  It pays her bills.
[00:18:59]  She doesn't have to worry about getting out there.
[00:19:00]  You and I, if our content sucks, no one's going to turn into our radio show.
[00:19:04]  No one's going to tune into our podcast.
[00:19:06]  No one's going to tune into our YouTube.
[00:19:07]  You get the point, right?
[00:19:08]  But we're willing to bet on ourselves.
[00:19:09]  We're like, yeah, I don't need to go sit on the view and go repeat stupid stuff.
[00:19:12]  Like I can make arguments.
[00:19:14]  I can have good guests.
[00:19:15]  And so by definition, we as freedom lovers have to be more dissident in our thinking, which then we actually end up being better than the other side.
[00:19:23]  Well, I can counter you by saying that as someone whose podcast does suck, it is possible to have crappy content and still be.
[00:19:29]  No, you get good guests.
[00:19:30]  You had Alex Jones.
[00:19:31]  Give me a break.
[00:19:32]  That's a big deal.
[00:19:33]  Let's talk about Alex.
[00:19:34]  I did have him last week because when you were just talking about it being an op, which I think you've clearly made out the case why it's at least plausible or if not like that it's an op.
[00:19:44]  This is the kind of thing where I feel five years ago, if Charlie Kirk was saying, you know, these were kind of a planned op outside my event, you would be called a conspiracy theorist and read out of polite society, even in conservative circles.
[00:19:58]  Why do you think that that tide has changed so much that you could say this and pretty much no conservative is even going to question your accusation?
[00:20:07]  Yeah, look, I think the facts have shown us the last couple of years.
[00:20:10]  I mean, I think Alex is wildly entertaining, by the way.
[00:20:12]  I disagree with him on a lot of stuff.
[00:20:13]  His style, I think the Sandy Hook thing was super questionable.
[00:20:16]  If I ever talked to him, I'd love to ask him about it.
[00:20:17]  But he's been right about a lot.
[00:20:19]  And we're not allowed to say that out loud, by the way, that Alex Jones was right about a lot.
[00:20:23]  And whether it be a lot of this globalism stuff, the open border stuff, and he obviously has a very, you know, unique style, I guess you could say.
[00:20:30]  But there is something to be said, though, that what once was deemed to be a conspiracy theory is now deemed to be a mainstream accepted fact.
[00:20:39]  And whether it be Russian collusion, I mean, the one I used the most, right?
[00:20:43]  And Alex, to his credit, was on this as, let's just say, comically and as entertaining as possible, was the Epstein Island thing.
[00:20:51]  Yeah.
[00:20:52]  And I remember very clearly bringing up Epstein Island in a conversation in Palm Beach in 2014 and being told by people that's a conspiracy theory when literally three streets away, three streets away was Jeffrey Epstein's home doing the exact thing that I heard a rumor about.
[00:21:09]  And they're like, oh, that's a conspiracy theory.
[00:21:10]  It's not true.
[00:21:11]  Well, we now know it's true.
[00:21:12]  We just don't know to what extent it's true.
[00:21:14]  We probably do, but there's some gaps to be filled in that there was an island that was probably intelligence operation where underage girls were flown on private jets with world leaders from many different continents and governments to probably accumulate blackmail.
[00:21:27]  That's a very big deal.
[00:21:29]  And so when people say, well, Charlotte's a conspiracy theory, I'm like, you mean the same one where you told me that I was a racist because the virus came from a laboratory in Wuhan, China?
[00:21:37]  You mean the same conspiracy theory when you said that Hunter Biden's laptop was not actually his laptop in Rudy Giuliani's hands?
[00:21:44]  And so these things that they smear as conspiracy theories largely end up being true.
[00:21:51]  And so the reason I can't quite pinpoint, but I just don't care anymore.
[00:21:56]  I'm going to say what I think is true.
[00:21:58]  And if you call it that, no matter what, but you know what's been amazing is that this, I've been really forceful about it.
[00:22:03]  Greg Gutfeld has, Jesse Waters about this Nazi thing.
[00:22:06]  And the media hasn't really been like conspiracy theory outside a turning point event.
[00:22:10]  They're kind of, I think deep down they know it too.
[00:22:13]  Well, because again, the Lincoln Project people admitted it to a year ago.
[00:22:16]  Yes.
[00:22:17]  Epstein Island's a great example.
[00:22:19]  It went from conspiracy theory to conspiracy fact.
[00:22:22]  It's not disputable that powerful people were secretly working with Jeffrey Epstein in the service of things that in any country, civilized country on earth are not only grossly illegal, but considered morally depraved.
[00:22:37]  And a follower of mine had a tweet.
[00:22:39]  I apologize.
[00:22:40]  I don't remember his name.
[00:22:41]  And this is tongue-in-cheek, but he had said, Pizza ate, Pizzagate aged better than Russia Gate.
[00:22:46]  Now, there was nothing to the Pizzagate story, literally, but in terms of the premise that extremely powerful people are engaged in predation on young men and women.
[00:22:56]  I mean, Dennis Hastert was Speaker of the House and the man was a horrible sexual predator.
[00:23:02]  And the fact to me that the Democrats don't talk about Dennis Haster and what he did is very because that should be a huge weapon over the Republicans.
[00:23:12]  Oh, you guys are always talking about rumors.
[00:23:14]  You had Haster to speak of the House.
[00:23:16]  You know, you're hypocrites.
[00:23:17]  They don't say that.
[00:23:19]  But you know who Denny Hassert's best friend was was Dick Cheney.
[00:23:21]  Denny Hassert carried, oh, well, think about it.
[00:23:23]  He carried all the water.
[00:23:24]  He was Speaker of the House when Bush was from 2000 to 2006.
[00:23:28]  He whipped the votes for the Iraq war for Medicare Part D. I'm not accusing Cheney of being in the same activity, but Denny Hassert, again, I'm from Illinois.
[00:23:38]  I know him.
[00:23:38]  I met him.
[00:23:39]  I don't know him.
[00:23:40]  Met him, but I know his politics is that he was one of the most effective uniparty speaker of the houses ever as far as international war, big spending, you know, open borders, massive government programs.
[00:23:56]  So they find Donald Trump more reprehensible than Denny Hassert.
[00:24:01]  Think about that.
[00:24:02]  I always say that it's a fair assumption that when you're looking at a politician in Washington, that they either want to screw kids or kill them.
[00:24:09]  So it is fair that Dick Cheney did not want to have things like Dennis Hassert, but he certainly has the blood of many children in his hands.
[00:24:16]  And we also saw it with this administration as well, when a bunch of children were murdered in Afghanistan accidentally, and no one even got it accidentally, but no one even got a demotion or any kind of reprimand.
[00:24:27]  It's just really kind of insane to what a level the media lets people off the hook when it comes to the literal murder of children.

=== Universities vs Conservative Circles (08:52) ===

[00:24:37]  Yeah, I mean, I could, I could go many different directions in that way.
[00:24:40]  But yeah, look, to kind of your broader point, and I just want our audience to feel, you know, encouraged in this and also to draw, I think, a necessary framework is that a lot of the things the media says are conspiracy theories is true.
[00:24:51]  With that being said, I get plenty of garbage emails, and there's plenty of things that people believe that are not true.
[00:24:56]  Okay.
[00:24:56]  So you have to be smart, be prudent.
[00:24:58]  You know, I vet my stories.
[00:25:00]  I mean, for example, I keep on getting these emails.
[00:25:02]  Charlie, Donald Trump's going to be president on September 1st.
[00:25:04]  No, he's not.
[00:25:05]  Okay.
[00:25:05]  He's not coming back with the military.
[00:25:07]  It's just not going to happen.
[00:25:08]  Okay.
[00:25:09]  And when I said that once, I got some angry emails like, you don't know.
[00:25:12]  Trust the plan.
[00:25:12]  I'm like, just get off the message boards.
[00:25:14]  Like, go stare at a tree, please.
[00:25:15]  Like, smash your phone.
[00:25:16]  It'd make you a happier person.
[00:25:18]  So I just want to be very clear.
[00:25:19]  Conspiracy theories can be true that are found on the internet, but that doesn't mean they are all true, right?
[00:25:25]  So use prudence, use practical judgment, and some wisdom.
[00:25:27]  But when the media goes really hard against one, that's when you know you're over the target.
[00:25:32]  Let's talk about your new book because I have made the case.
[00:25:34]  Like I, when I was in, I went to Bucknell and I was a business major because I understood and I was right that the most important thing you're going to get out of university is a credential.
[00:25:46]  If I had that business degree, that that would be opening much more doors for me than if I was, let's suppose, interested in psychology.
[00:25:51]  I could go to the school library, learn about psychology, read textbooks, so on and so forth on my own.
[00:25:56]  But that credential is what's going to open the door for me.
[00:25:59]  Your book, and again, I'm a lot older than you.
[00:26:02]  Your book is saying that this is something that is falling away and that college is increasingly a scam.
[00:26:08]  Can you break down the premise?
[00:26:10]  Because you didn't go to college and you're very successful.
[00:26:12]  I did not.
[00:26:13]  Well, thank you.
[00:26:13]  And so, yeah, the book's called The College Scam, and people can find it at college scam.com.
[00:26:17]  So it's been about a decade of living this theme out, not going to college, as you mentioned.
[00:26:21]  It's three years of work went into this book.
[00:26:23]  A lot of research has 35 pages of footnotes at the end of the book because I knew we were going to come under criticism because this is an industry that you cannot touch.
[00:26:31]  If you want to talk about the untouchable industries, it's the war machine, the pharmaceutical industrial complex, the media regime, colleges.
[00:26:38]  That's kind of like top four as far as the institutions that we must just obey no matter what.
[00:26:44]  So I thought to myself, most Americans actually don't agree with my premise, which is that college is a scam, at least most upper middle class Americans.
[00:26:52]  So the best way to write the book is to write it as if I'm trying to persuade people.
[00:26:57]  And so what is the most proven high-stakes game of persuasion?
[00:27:02]  The courtroom.
[00:27:03]  You think about it, right?
[00:27:04]  A prosecutor try to convince 12 normal people that this guy needs to go spend time behind bars or this woman needs to spend time behind bars.
[00:27:10]  So I write the book as if I'm a prosecutor.
[00:27:12]  I believe I've developed these facts over a long period of time and you are the jury.
[00:27:15]  So I have a 10-count indictment in the book.
[00:27:17]  Very factual, every single one.
[00:27:18]  Every single one's different.
[00:27:20]  And to go one after the other after the other, 10 counts.
[00:27:22]  I believe college is guilty on all, if you will, college, the industry.
[00:27:26]  And it's everything from how expensive they are to how radically intolerant they are to the ridiculous finances of these universities, how they literally lie to the federal government to get more money.
[00:27:37]  And while you go further into debt, so I can go any way you want with that, but the book is not written like a traditional political book that people are peddling.
[00:27:44]  And I'm not saying that I wrote the typical political book, right, a couple of years ago, MAGA Doctrine.
[00:27:49]  That was written a little bit for persuasion, but mostly for clarity for Trump supporters that didn't quite understand all the ideas.
[00:27:56]  This is not written for that.
[00:27:57]  This is for persuasion.
[00:27:58]  This is, you're going to start the book and you probably disagree, and I might be able to change your mind by the end of the book.
[00:28:04]  And so it took a lot of work.
[00:28:04]  That's the hardest type of book to write, in my opinion.
[00:28:07]  One of the things that I disagree with conservatives the most, and I don't know your position on this, and I'm curious to hear it, is this idea that is very common in conservative circles that the universities have gotten bad, but back in the day, they were more open-minded places for exchange of ideas.
[00:28:22]  And I sit there and wonder, I'm like, they've been taken over by, at the very least, like social democrats since like the 1910s.
[00:28:30]  At what point do you think?
[00:28:31]  And, you know, when I was in college, my economics professor, she was a Marxist feminist.
[00:28:37]  She was a great professor at this.
[00:28:38]  She was fair, but she made the claim in her textbook that because the laws of economics were discovered by men or maybe males, they are inherently sexist and have to be rediscovered by women.
[00:28:50]  I don't know what supply and demand has to do with chromosomes or genitals, but I'm sure she has a Marxist argument.
[00:28:56]  What is your view about universities?
[00:28:58]  Do you think this is something that they've recently become radicalized or this is something for a long time?
[00:29:02]  I mean, I think they've gotten worse.
[00:29:04]  I will say that.
[00:29:05]  Here's the argument I make in the book.
[00:29:06]  They've always been bad.
[00:29:07]  They've only become bigger and more emboldened.
[00:29:09]  Right.
[00:29:10]  And so they were radical in the 1950s.
[00:29:12]  Just read William F. Buckley's Godman in Yale.
[00:29:14]  He was complaining about it.
[00:29:15]  But I'll be honest, the stuff he's complaining about pales in comparison to the garbage at Yale today.
[00:29:20]  They have gotten worse.
[00:29:20]  And I could say that as someone who's done this for 10 years, it's worse today than it was in 2014.
[00:29:26]  It's worse today than it was in 2018.
[00:29:28]  But the reference point is really important where I think some conservatives think back to the 60s and 70s, where they're like, yeah, going to campus was so much fun back then.
[00:29:38]  They were actually liberal back then.
[00:29:39]  They weren't the students themselves were really liberal, meaning they were doing a lot of drugs and they were anti-Vietnam War and it's free love.
[00:29:45]  And they became more conservative, but they still kind of think of their university as that's the place where I discovered myself when I did psychedelics on Saturday night listening to John Lennon.
[00:29:55]  Okay, great, terrific.
[00:29:56]  You know, they're not that anymore.
[00:29:59]  And I wouldn't actually look as affectionately back on that as some people do.
[00:30:02]  The point is this.
[00:30:03]  The point is that they've always been, since the Frankfurt School mostly took over, right, in the 1940s and 50s, Herbert Marcuse, they've been infiltrated, right?
[00:30:12]  They've been infiltrated from the top down, from Foucault to Derrida to Derek Bell to Angela Davis.
[00:30:18]  We talk about all of it in the book.
[00:30:19]  But there is a difference, though, and it is the illiberalism.
[00:30:22]  This is something that I think conservatives get partially right, is they say, well, the university used to be this wonderful place for free speech and free ideas.
[00:30:28]  Not anymore.
[00:30:30]  Sort of, right?
[00:30:31]  They were far left-wing ideas.
[00:30:32]  They were always Marxist in nature, but they did have some commitment to liberalism, but they didn't believe in liberalism, small L liberalism, because they actually believed in it.
[00:30:42]  They looked at it as a utility.
[00:30:44]  You see, liberalism for them is always a bridge to fascism or towards totalitarianism.
[00:30:50]  It's let us speak right now until we outnumber you, and then we're going to close off the right to speak.
[00:30:56]  And it's never, it was never speech for the right of speech or for the sake of speech, of which is a beautiful thing.
[00:31:01]  It's we need to be able to talk because the power structures aren't us yet.
[00:31:05]  But once we get into the power structures, then we're going to turn off the lights on speech.
[00:31:09]  And that's where a lot of conservatives were, I think, hoodwinked.
[00:31:13]  There's that great, great quote by Herbert, by Frank Herbert in Dune, where he says, When I'm weaker than you, I ask for freedom.
[00:31:20]  When I'm weaker than you, I ask for freedom because that is according to your principles.
[00:31:23]  When I'm stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
[00:31:26]  That's beautiful.
[00:31:28]  I missed that.
[00:31:30]  That's exactly what you were referring to: that free speech is a utility in order to get them to have this kind of sense of hegemony.
[00:31:37]  And once they have it, they're going to shut the door behind them and make sure there's no amount of speech left.
[00:31:43]  Let's also talk about the financial burden.
[00:31:46]  There's no more privileged group of people in America than a college graduate.
[00:31:51]  It's the best guarantee that you're going to have economic security, that you're going to have capability for a job, that you're going to have advancement in society.
[00:31:59]  And yet, there's talk by Joe Biden and the Republican and the Democrats, excuse me, and some Republicans to have debt relief and have, and which is effectively be the poorest of Americans, the least privileged, are subsidizing the upward mobility of the most privileged.
[00:32:13]  I'm guessing this is something you're not in favor of.
[00:32:16]  Oh, I'm totally against it.
[00:32:17]  Yeah, I would just challenge one thing.
[00:32:19]  It's not as much of a guarantee to an entrance as you might think.
[00:32:22]  I mean, for example, 40% of kids that graduate from college will end up getting a job that doesn't require a college degree, right?
[00:32:30]  And so there is some truth to what you're saying.
[00:32:34]  And I'll take it from this standpoint.
[00:32:36]  Let's just kind of isolate a particular group of people, which actually they end up having the biggest debt loads.
[00:32:41]  How about the Northeastern schools in particular, right?
[00:32:44]  So Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth.
[00:32:48]  Why should a carpenter in Ohio have to go pay for the debt of some gender studies major that went to Dartmouth?
[00:32:57]  Like, okay, you decided to go to Dartmouth to go study North African lesbian poetry.
[00:33:02]  Figure out how to pay it.
[00:33:04]  Okay.
[00:33:04]  Don't go ask the welders in Florida to have to go chip in for that.
[00:33:08]  So I'm totally against debt forgiveness from a moral standpoint, from a pragmatic standpoint, but also it, I think it deteriorates and is an insult to the kids that paid their way through college, that took AP classes, that were financially prudent, that went to community college first.
[00:33:25]  It's such an injustice, regardless of what they do towards that topic.

=== Debt Forgiveness Is An Insult (10:22) ===

[00:33:29]  One of the things that I am heartened by, and you're going to have your finger on the pulse of the kids much more than I will.
[00:33:35]  I'm here in Austin and I was driving around recently with a friend of mine and on the GPS or the MapQuest, excuse me, it said Temple of Dr. Ron Paul.
[00:33:43]  And I'm like, I don't know what this is.
[00:33:44]  And I stopped by and it was Young Americans for Liberty, which is a kind of a, I guess, I don't know if you guys are rivals or however system.
[00:33:51]  They're more libertarian than I am.
[00:33:52]  I'm more conservative, but they're great.
[00:33:53]  They're terrific.
[00:33:55]  And it turned out to be, and the kids just blew me away.
[00:33:58]  They had their heads screwed on so straight.
[00:34:00]  They understood the nature of what they're up against.
[00:34:03]  They had tactics that were very effective at holding people accountable.
[00:34:07]  Back in the day, you would have things like Reagan saying, oh, the problem with our liberal friends is that they believe things that are just not true.
[00:34:13]  But that seems to give this idea that the universities should be given the benefit of doubt, that they don't know what they're doing, that they're just, you know, it's just a difference of opinion.
[00:34:22]  Whereas as opposed to having this kind of malevolent intent, have cultural control.
[00:34:28]  Are the conservative students now becoming more aware of what they're up against as opposed to this kind of sense of we could be like Reagan and Tip O'Neill and just get together and disagree and then have a drink after?
[00:34:40]  Yeah, I think they are.
[00:34:41]  And they're becoming hardened because everything's become political.
[00:34:43]  They become radicalized in a good way where they realize the intentions of the opposition, like you said, are malevolent.
[00:34:49]  They're dealing with an insidious force, a cancerous force.
[00:34:53]  And look, regardless if you're a libertarian or conservative or a moderate or whatever, that matters less to me.
[00:34:59]  What matters more, and obviously I'm very conservative in nature and become less libertarian over the years, but what matters more to me is, do you know who you're fighting?
[00:35:06]  That's what really matters to me, right?
[00:35:08]  So for example, if I had a libertarian, and I know you're an anarchist, which I find to be really kind of fun, I love listening to you on that stuff, which is, you know, a libertarian says, okay, I want, you know, drugs and all this stuff, or I want less gun laws.
[00:35:22]  I'm like, great, that's something I can work with you on, okay?
[00:35:24]  Terrific.
[00:35:25]  Or they say, you know, I want open borders, and then that's silly.
[00:35:28]  Or they'll say something like, I think we should never have lockdowns again.
[00:35:31]  I totally agree with that.
[00:35:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:35:33]  And so there's these partnerships and these synergies that can happen.
[00:35:36]  But what we both agree on is we're dealing with a very, very dark opposition.
[00:35:42]  Like they do not want what's best.
[00:35:44]  They want a form of, I believe, technocratic controlled serfdom where they're in charge and we're not.
[00:35:50]  And it really is the question of whether or not we're going to fight for liberty.
[00:35:53]  It really is that simple.
[00:35:54]  Why do you think that so many, you know, because everyone who's young is an idiot.
[00:35:59]  You know, you're 17, you don't know anything.
[00:36:01]  No one who's 17 knows anything.
[00:36:02]  And everyone who gets to be 21 looks back at 17.
[00:36:05]  You're like, why do I think I knew anything?
[00:36:07]  I was an idiot.
[00:36:07]  Oh, yeah.
[00:36:08]  Some of my political views when I was 20.
[00:36:11]  How is it that the kids are so have their are so red-pilled and are so aware now as opposed to being much more naive maybe a few decades ago in Europe?
[00:36:21]  Yeah, I mean, Aristotle had a great quote.
[00:36:23]  I'm paraphrasing that pressure makes the man, which is they're in these highly combustible environments early on where at 18 years old, they're asked by a professor, who here's a Republican?
[00:36:32]  They're like, oh, yeah, me.
[00:36:33]  And then they get singled out and they get bullied.
[00:36:35]  Like, wait, what?
[00:36:36]  I mean, that does one of two things.
[00:36:37]  That either makes you weaker or makes you stronger.
[00:36:39]  And for our kids, at turning point, you'll say, it makes our kids very strong.
[00:36:43]  They lose friends, they get bullied, they get socially isolated.
[00:36:46]  So if you were to kind of, this is, I totally agree with your enemy class kind of diagnosis, which is if you were going to try to create a group of people that was going to win in the future, would you want the people that have had their teeth kicked in from when they're 18 and they have bruises and broken bones to show for it and they have the muscle to be able to get through it?
[00:37:06]  Or do you want the people that retreat to the hills every time they hear something they don't like?
[00:37:11]  Forget the numbers.
[00:37:12]  Our side, in the great words of Nassim Taleb, we're anti-fragile.
[00:37:16]  We get stronger the more they come after us.
[00:37:19]  And so I think there's a lot of reasons for that.
[00:37:22]  But regardless of their ideology, their attitude is what gives me hope.
[00:37:26]  And that's why I said libertarian conservative, whatever.
[00:37:28]  I think you'll get more conservatives you get older.
[00:37:30]  It doesn't really matter to me.
[00:37:31]  Just keep reading and keep listening and keep pursuing truth.
[00:37:33]  Is your attitude one where you know who you're up against?
[00:37:37]  Back in the day, especially in the post-World War II era, the GI Bill, going to college, you know, the first person in my family to go to college.
[00:37:44]  This is a huge like upper middle class, middle class bourgeois aspiration.
[00:37:48]  Like my daughter, my son's the first one to go to college.
[00:37:50]  This is a big deal.
[00:37:51]  Now it seems, but the thing is, in more recent years, your daughter goes to college as a, you know, Nubile Young co-ed.
[00:37:58]  She comes back at Thanksgiving as an unrecognizable swamp wall risk.
[00:38:00]  That's exactly right.
[00:38:01]  It seems to be an understanding that, wait a minute, this kind of, I'm going to use the word broadly, American dream of like, my kid's going to be the first one to go to college.
[00:38:10]  All of a sudden, it seems that parents are increasingly aware that this isn't the bill of goods that maybe that had happened back in the day.
[00:38:17]  Do you, given your contacts with kids and parents, is my perception accurate that this is decreasingly the case to be an inspirational thing?
[00:38:26]  Slightly.
[00:38:27]  College enrollment went down by 660,000 people last year.
[00:38:30]  I'm probably the only person on the planet that goes to the Department of Education website almost every day, waiting for them to refresh the statistics because I care so every day.
[00:38:39]  I'm like, come on.
[00:38:40]  And people like, they act like, when's the next, I don't know, Gucci purse going to drop?
[00:38:44]  I'm like, when's the college dropout numbers going to be posted?
[00:38:49]  And they've delayed them by a couple of months.
[00:38:50]  I wonder why, because I think they're going to be really bad.
[00:38:53]  If they go down by seven figures, I will be so happy.
[00:38:55]  And a stated goal of this book is to try to decrease college enrollment.
[00:38:58]  I make no question about it.
[00:39:00]  In fact, I do not believe America can continue in any semblance of a free country unless we decline college enrollment by half quickly.
[00:39:08]  There is no path forward, regardless of your political ideology, regardless of your opinion on certain views.
[00:39:13]  There is no path forward, period.
[00:39:15]  Unless you want to go live in a very dystopian country, which I completely wholeheartedly reject.
[00:39:21]  Cannot keep on sending your most prized possession to get filled with bad ideas, saddled with debt, with very little career prospects, and act as if everything's going to be fine.
[00:39:29]  One of the things that's happened in recent years, like the biggest argument in terms of having a college degree is, you know, how are you going to get hired?
[00:39:37]  It's become easier and easier, exponentially so, for young people to set up something in Shopify, something in Etsy, to set up a website.
[00:39:44]  When you set up a website, no one knows that you're a high school kid or college or college age kid behind the computer and you could be a young entrepreneur.
[00:39:51]  After four years, you know, one person could have a degree, another person could be like, I've built this startup or this website and I'm generating five figures a month.
[00:40:00]  If I were hiring someone, I would much rather hire that young go-getter who started his own site than someone who's just been in the classroom.
[00:40:07]  And I think as that increases, it's really going to be difficult for colleges to make the case.
[00:40:12]  You should lose four years of getting job experience, four years of earning a salary at the cost of getting a piece of paper and then tens of thousands of dollars every year.
[00:40:22]  And you don't have literally any experience at the end of the day.
[00:40:24]  Is that something that you see is also a big threat to the university system?
[00:40:28]  Yeah, it is the threat.
[00:40:29]  And it is the number one argument I receive.
[00:40:31]  And honestly, it's the best argument that I receive.
[00:40:33]  And I debunk it in the book rather comprehensively, which is, Charlie, I need the piece of paper elsewhere.
[00:40:39]  I'm never going to be able to get a job.
[00:40:40]  Okay.
[00:40:41]  So that's not totally true.
[00:40:42]  It's true in some technical fields.
[00:40:44]  I fully admit it.
[00:40:45]  Nursing, lawyer, doctor, hard not to go to college.
[00:40:48]  It just really is, right?
[00:40:49]  But for example, though, the vast majority of people that go will be studying business or they study entrepreneurship.
[00:40:55]  I just, out of all the degrees that you study entrepreneurship, it's the silliest thing.
[00:41:00]  How do you study entrepreneurship?
[00:41:01]  You do entrepreneurship.
[00:41:03]  Okay.
[00:41:03]  I mean, this is, it's an overly academic experiment.
[00:41:06]  Get into the weeds, start a business, you'll learn along the way.
[00:41:09]  Or they study gender studies or humanities or sociology, which is the leading field of study across America.
[00:41:16]  You could wipe all that out.
[00:41:17]  That's a complete disaster, completely irrelevant almost all the way through.
[00:41:21]  And so what's going to be required on both sides, required for kids not to go out of a leap of faith.
[00:41:25]  And then employers have to start hiring kids that didn't go to college that are willing to work and learn whatever your company needs along the way.
[00:41:33]  I believe, and I write about this in the book, college actually makes you lazier.
[00:41:36]  I think it decreases work ethic, not increases it.
[00:41:39]  I think it decreases social skills.
[00:41:41]  I think it decreases aspiration just as a general organizing principle.
[00:41:46]  How does it do that?
[00:41:47]  I would love to hear you expound on that.
[00:41:49]  Well, lazier, I mean, it's easier than ever to just coast and get C's because you can blend in class sizes.
[00:41:54]  They're 300 to 400 person per class.
[00:41:57]  So you could just blend in and barely do your work.
[00:42:00]  The professors are overworked.
[00:42:02]  And so they don't want to have to flunk you out unnecessarily.
[00:42:06]  There's incredible amount of cheating culture that happens in college that no one wants to talk about.
[00:42:11]  That is a huge thing.
[00:42:12]  We talk about it in the book of pay for essays or people taking tests.
[00:42:16]  And so it's hard to get straight A's in college.
[00:42:19]  It is not hard just to kind of coast by and get D's and C's.
[00:42:23]  And you know this by the amount of idle time college kids have.
[00:42:26]  They'll go to class for three or four hours a day.
[00:42:29]  That's it at most.
[00:42:31]  And you think they're spending the rest of their time studying?
[00:42:33]  Not so much.
[00:42:34]  I mean, it is a glamorized recreational vacation, judged by just the build outs that you see at some of these universities.
[00:42:41]  Lazy rivers, bars on every corner.
[00:42:44]  It's fine.
[00:42:44]  I don't have no against, I'm not against people having a good time, but that's a super expensive proposition to just kind of have a good time to just go socialize with friends.
[00:42:52]  And that's the other argument people make is like, well, I meet a lot of people when I'm at college and it's good for networking.
[00:42:58]  Let me tell you right now, it's better for you to network people that have already graduated from college than people that are going to graduate from college.
[00:43:03]  Okay.
[00:43:04]  So which would you prefer?
[00:43:05]  People that have made it or people that are going to make it?
[00:43:07]  And by the way, most colleges you go to, unless you go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, they're probably going to end up bums.
[00:43:12]  I'm sorry.
[00:43:12]  It's just the way it is.
[00:43:13]  Okay.
[00:43:13]  It's just like, well, yeah, I go to, you know, Western North Dakota State and I'm meeting a lot of people for my future.
[00:43:20]  Cool, man.
[00:43:20]  I'm sure they're all going to end up being, you know, running the FBI one day.
[00:43:25]  All right.
[00:43:26]  Let's be honest.
[00:43:27]  And so, yeah, I could go through the lazier thing.
[00:43:29]  I think it lowers aspiration because the culture of college is to make you feel as if what you do does not matter.
[00:43:36]  It's evangelistic nihilism.
[00:43:38]  It's in every corner of the university.
[00:43:40]  From the books they read to the ideas that are permeated.
[00:43:43]  The vast consensus on college campuses is only pleasure matters, period.
[00:43:48]  Not the pursuit of truth or goodness or beauty, the study of the Western canon.

=== How College Ideas Go Viral (03:29) ===

[00:43:52]  They removed all of that.
[00:43:53]  And I could say this as a subject matter expert because I visit so many of these campuses and I talk to so many of them.
[00:43:58]  Going to Berkeley, I literally set up a card table at Berkeley and I spent an hour, hour and a half there talking to students, and their cynicism and their nihilism is depressing.
[00:44:09]  No wonder why this is the most depressed, suicidal, alcohol-addicted, and Medicated generation in history.
[00:44:14]  And that's the other thing is that we have more kids killing themselves than ever before, more kids doing hard drugs, more kids getting, you know, addicted to alcohol, more kids on antidepressants, and we have more kids graduating from college up until last year.
[00:44:26]  It declined a little bit down.
[00:44:28]  We also have the least married generation in history.
[00:44:31]  We have a fertility crisis where it's going down dramatically.
[00:44:34]  It's harder than ever to buy a home.
[00:44:36]  Many of this college thing isn't working too well.
[00:44:39]  And so you have all of these environmental factors.
[00:44:41]  I'm not blaming college for all of it, but it certainly isn't helping.
[00:44:44]  Since we've had the mass infusion of people going to college, which is baby boomers' kids, right?
[00:44:48]  Baby boomers kids going to college kind of from 2005 till today, 2022, that 17-year window where college enrollment almost doubled over the course of 10 years, almost like 45% increase.
[00:44:59]  America has become a less free, less happy, less joyful, more suicidal, more depressed nation.
[00:45:05]  One of the things that you really excel at is crafting a tweet that is perfectly targeted to conservatives to go viral.
[00:45:12]  So can you share with us your trick to writing the perfect Charlie Kirk tweet?
[00:45:17]  Oh, boy.
[00:45:18]  You have to know the right emoji to use.
[00:45:22]  Huh?
[00:45:22]  Retweet if you agree.
[00:45:24]  Oh, no, that was that.
[00:45:25]  Hey, I was the pioneer of that.
[00:45:28]  Look, early on, and I don't, no one's actually ever asked me about this.
[00:45:32]  So I love Twitter.
[00:45:34]  I was, I used to love Twitter.
[00:45:35]  It's an awful place now.
[00:45:36]  I actually deleted it from my phone and I have somebody else run it.
[00:45:39]  But I got my first Twitter account in 2011 and I studied the platform.
[00:45:43]  I studied it like a gamer would study Halo or whatever the kids play nowadays, right?
[00:45:47]  Like I studied what goes viral.
[00:45:49]  I'll bet Kirk, what are kids play nowadays?
[00:45:51]  I don't know, Pokemon.
[00:45:52]  I don't know.
[00:45:53]  I'm not a video game guy.
[00:45:54]  I think it's a waste of time.
[00:45:56]  But so I studied Twitter and I was like, what goes viral?
[00:45:59]  What goes, you know, so around like 12 and 13, I would really kind of get into this and I realized that Twitter was changing its algorithm and almost becomes kind of an extension of you where you kind of realize the pattern.
[00:46:09]  And so I did this for year after year after year, starting with no followers, unverified.
[00:46:13]  And during the kind of the top of the Trump years, you know, we ended up having the third most engaged Twitter account on the planet.
[00:46:19]  I mean, I was averaging 145,000 retweets a day at our heyday, which is a lot, right?
[00:46:26]  Not to mention all the likes and favorites and all of that.
[00:46:28]  It's just astronomical numbers.
[00:46:30]  And so, yeah, it's the perfect way to craft a tweet.
[00:46:32]  Say things that are true, that get people's attention, and don't be afraid to ask people to retweet.
[00:46:37]  Yeah, okay.
[00:46:39]  Why do you find that hard?
[00:46:40]  Why do you think Twitter has, you just said it's kind of become a bit of a cesspool or whatever the term that's awful.
[00:46:45]  Why do you think how's it gotten worse?
[00:46:47]  They kick off people that I want to hear from, Donald Trump being one of them, and they banned me and they banned James Lindsey.
[00:46:55]  What do you mean?
[00:46:55]  What happened there?
[00:46:56]  For a while, and then we figured it out.
[00:46:58]  It was all about Levine.
[00:47:01]  I get so many of these notices from them.
[00:47:02]  It was about Admiral Levine or whatever his name is, who thinks he's a woman or whatever.
[00:47:07]  The whole thing is so messed up.
[00:47:08]  So then, the, yeah, but not to mention, it's just tweets don't go as viral as they used to because they're shadow banning all of us, which has now been revealed in CDC documents that if you dare to question the vaccine, of which I do, they come after you and they shadow ban you.

=== Legalization Made Cartels Stronger (03:27) ===

[00:47:21]  And so, it's just not fun anymore either.
[00:47:23]  Twitter used to be a legitimately fun place where I would send out one of those tweets and be like, oh, a New York Times reporter is going to tweet back at me.
[00:47:29]  Like, yes, it's like the only way I could communicate with people I absolutely hate.
[00:47:33]  And because I don't have their phone numbers, right?
[00:47:35]  And you could do it in front of millions of other people.
[00:47:37]  Like, oh, yes, this degenerate from the Huffington Post decided to tweet at me.
[00:47:40]  I must be doing something right.
[00:47:42]  And that's just not that fun anymore.
[00:47:43]  Now it's like, you're a Nazi, you're a scum.
[00:47:44]  It's like, okay, whatever.
[00:47:45]  And I think that Twitter has just decreased in its potency and its relevancy.
[00:47:51]  And so I don't know.
[00:47:52]  I passively use Twitter now.
[00:47:53]  I dedicate a lot more time to other platforms.
[00:47:56]  You said earlier that you have become more conservative and less as you've gotten older in your old age.
[00:48:03]  How have you become?
[00:48:05]  Can you give me a few examples or one even?
[00:48:06]  Yeah, I mean, I'll give you one.
[00:48:08]  And I mean, you're probably going to totally disagree.
[00:48:09]  And that's fine.
[00:48:10]  Is that I used to be super libertarian on weed, right?
[00:48:14]  And like, oh, yeah, do whatever you want.
[00:48:15]  And I'm the exact opposite now.
[00:48:17]  I think it, I've seen it destroy people's lives, like actually destroy people's lives.
[00:48:22]  I've seen it create remarkably violent tendencies.
[00:48:25]  Now, I'm not trying to judge if some of your audience does it.
[00:48:27]  That's not my point.
[00:48:28]  My point is: should we go out of our way to evangelistically legalize a substance when we already have substance abuse widespread?
[00:48:34]  That's the question.
[00:48:34]  I understand the alcohol contradiction argument.
[00:48:36]  I can address that.
[00:48:37]  But I, for example, I live in Scottsdale.
[00:48:39]  They're building a marijuana dispensary five minutes from my home.
[00:48:42]  I do not want the people that go to marijuana dispensaries at 1 a.m. near my home.
[00:48:46]  I don't.
[00:48:46]  And local government, I don't want you near me, period.
[00:48:49]  And so I've seen it in Denver.
[00:48:51]  I've seen it in my home of Chicago.
[00:48:52]  I've seen it in Vegas.
[00:48:54]  I think it creates a sloppiness to the society.
[00:48:56]  And by the way, I'll just be very honest, I hate the smell of it.
[00:48:59]  And I also have seen it personally just completely and totally obliterate people's personal ambitions.
[00:49:06]  And I think the stereotype that it is a gateway drug is kind of true.
[00:49:09]  So that's just one way.
[00:49:11]  A second one.
[00:49:11]  I'm not even that though, because one of the issues that I think you and I would very much agree on is the problem with drug cartels, right?
[00:49:18]  Oh, I totally agree, but it hasn't made them weaker.
[00:49:20]  It's made them stronger since we've legalized.
[00:49:22]  Especially OLA cartel is stronger than ever since we've legalized weed.
[00:49:25]  So you, so is it in your opinion that if marijuana were nationwide, nation, excuse me, nationwide made in something equivalent to like what is a substance, a schedule, whatever, drug, that this would be, would hurt the cartels?
[00:49:40]  I don't, maybe.
[00:49:42]  I mean, I think that, look, my, my view actually ends up being more moderate, which is it doesn't need to be overly enforced.
[00:49:47]  I just don't think we should have dispensaries in every corner.
[00:49:49]  Like I get it if some kid does dope, I suppose, but it is the culture of weed that comes in that just drives me crazy.
[00:49:57]  But I guess just to counter the argument, the cartels were weaker when we used to actually enforce these laws.
[00:50:02]  The cartels are stronger than ever, period.
[00:50:04]  They're richer than ever.
[00:50:05]  They have more arms than ever.
[00:50:06]  They're more sophisticated than ever.
[00:50:08]  And one of the promises that I used to believe in from a lot of libertarians is legalize weed and the cartels are going to be able to do whatever they want to do.
[00:50:15]  They won't be able to do what they want to do.
[00:50:16]  They get shut down.
[00:50:17]  That's just not true.
[00:50:18]  It just isn't.
[00:50:19]  It was a total lie.
[00:50:20]  I could say I live in Arizona.
[00:50:21]  The cartels are stronger than ever.
[00:50:22]  Another thing that I've become less libertarian on is the legal issue of immigration.
[00:50:28]  I used to be, yeah, okay, if you want to come here and work.
[00:50:31]  I totally didn't quite understand the complications of assimilation and kind of cultural influences and all that.
[00:50:37]  And I'll be honest, just kind of more generally about libertarianism.
[00:50:40]  And I don't mean this as an accusation or any of your listeners or all that.
[00:50:43]  I think some parts of libertarianism are far too focused on abstractions, like way too focused on it.

=== Libertarianism Too Focused On Abstractions (09:42) ===

[00:50:48]  Like I've read all the books, okay?
[00:50:50]  I read Rothbard, I read Mises, I read Bastiat, I read Friedman, I read Rand.
[00:50:55]  I mean, I could quote a lot of it.
[00:50:56]  I understand it deeply.
[00:50:58]  And then I realize that a lot of it is just very idealistic, built for academic arguments.
[00:51:04]  It could be helpful and instructive at times, but it's not, it's not, I don't believe it's a governing principle or a way to live your life at all.
[00:51:11]  But you, I mean, you don't think this country was like the founding fathers were basically libertarian in their principles?
[00:51:17]  No, of course not.
[00:51:19]  No way.
[00:51:19]  No, I mean, like, look, Thomas Jefferson was talking against sodomy laws in Virginia, in favor of sodomy laws in Virginia.
[00:51:27]  That's not libertarian.
[00:51:28]  Like they had state-run religions.
[00:51:31]  Like, that's not libertarian.
[00:51:32]  The national government might have been libertarian.
[00:51:34]  And I'll be very clear: like, I would love to live in a country where everyone, like, it was live and let live.
[00:51:39]  And I think that's idealistically nice, but there's one gun on the table, right?
[00:51:44]  And so there's three ways this ends up.
[00:51:46]  We can all live in a free society where we all treat each other well.
[00:51:48]  That's not going to happen.
[00:51:49]  Okay.
[00:51:50]  Or they have the gun or we have the gun.
[00:51:53]  It's that simple.
[00:51:55]  I wish it wasn't.
[00:51:56]  I mean, there's a fourth option, which is this idea that's been bubbling up of national divorce.
[00:52:02]  The concept being that the two are completely irreconcilable, and that even if there's any kind of victory in terms of some kind of conservative Republican landslide, it is, you know, the pendulum is only going to swing for a short period of time and eventually it's going to revert to the left and it's going to just be this kind of interminable war against one group of people versus another group of people.
[00:52:24]  Whereas if there were two guns, one group can do as they well please, the other group goes as they well please, and everyone will be happier ever after.
[00:52:31]  We don't really, I mean, we complain about, you know, the policies in Canada, but no one really cares to the extent that they care about the policies less than most of Chicago or New York.
[00:52:42]  Yeah, sort of.
[00:52:43]  I mean, I've talked about national divorce.
[00:52:48]  I'm sure you've seen some pretty messy divorces.
[00:52:50]  So who gets the military?
[00:52:52]  Like, I mean, there's some pretty serious questions.
[00:52:55]  How do you break what states together and for what purposes?
[00:52:58]  What I think you're striking at, though, is something I can agree with libertarians on a lot, which is a revival of self-government and local government, which I think needs to be the necessary step and kind of the restoration of what a republic actually is, not this overly federalized system.
[00:53:13]  But I'm afraid that this idea of a national divorce would be way messier than people realize.
[00:53:17]  So at least in the short term, in the immediate, I'm going to keep on fighting for my fellow countrymen.
[00:53:22]  But I mean, whether it's in New York City or whether it's in Chicago or San Francisco or LA, but I'm also realistic that I don't want to live in a country with most people that live in San Francisco and they don't want to live in a country with me.
[00:53:32]  That's probably unsustainable.
[00:53:35]  So the best way is that can we take over enough positions of power to try to mediate some form of a detente where it's like, you guys keep on stepping out of line.
[00:53:44]  You better stay in your corner and we'll stay in ours.
[00:53:47]  That's the only practical solution.
[00:53:49]  Otherwise, I'm afraid what comes next.
[00:53:50]  But I mean, detente is the Gerald Ford Henry Kissinger approach.
[00:53:54]  And then Ronald Reagan, before he was president, said, let me give you my strategy for the Cold War.
[00:53:58]  We win, they lose.
[00:54:00]  That's right.
[00:54:00]  But I'm saying the détente comes after we win.
[00:54:03]  Well, I mean, the detente means stalemate.
[00:54:06]  That means like, how is it a détente if they're it's not a détente?
[00:54:09]  Well, because I mean, you're not going to get rid of the LGBT activists in San Francisco, right?
[00:54:13]  You're just going to make it so they have no power.
[00:54:15]  Like, no, you're not able to go after children.
[00:54:17]  You're not able to go into the schools.
[00:54:19]  You're not able to go into curriculum, right?
[00:54:21]  And so if the national project is going to continue, then somebody has to win, right?
[00:54:26]  And I believe still that to my core that 60 to 70% of Americans think what's going on is insane.
[00:54:32]  That, yes, we want borders.
[00:54:34]  We want to have our liberties protected, that our children should be off limits, and that the psychos that run the country from Malibu and Manhattan can and should be completely put into a permanent political minority.
[00:54:45]  Don't you think that the lockdowns and quarantining demonstrated that in fact 60 to 70% of Americans were perfectly happy to sacrifice their liberties if the people on the televisions told them that this is something that needs to happen?
[00:55:00]  That's a very good point, but it didn't last because we did our job and we were out there and educating and talking and then the tide turned.
[00:55:09]  Now lockdowns are super unpopular, right?
[00:55:11]  And mass mandates aren't popular.
[00:55:13]  What you're striking at is something that I find very hard to disagree with, which is what is actually the raw material I'm dealing with?
[00:55:20]  Am I dealing with a liberty-loving, freedom-loving population?
[00:55:23]  I want to believe that.
[00:55:25]  I do.
[00:55:26]  Maybe we're slow to the truth in our country, or maybe I'm woefully idealistic and I'm actually living in a country that wants a totalitarian government.
[00:55:36]  I'm going to reject that.
[00:55:37]  And in fact, I believe I have to.
[00:55:38]  I think it's a moral obligation to the nation that we're inheritors of this beautiful, this beautiful country.
[00:55:44]  But yeah, I will say this, though, that versus other countries, we have a lot of fight left in us.
[00:55:50]  We really do.
[00:55:51]  And I think we're just starting to see Americans start to fight back.
[00:55:54]  I really do.
[00:55:55]  And I think self-government is on the rise.
[00:55:56]  People are starting to ask questions of how can I sustain myself?
[00:55:59]  How can I be able to feed my family, you know, navigate the waterways, navigate the highways outside of government control.
[00:56:08]  So, but it's a hard, it's a difficult point to counter.
[00:56:11]  One of the things I am most heartened by is how so many people, regular people, not necessarily public figures, although that has changed a little bit with people like Carrie Lake in Arizona and Governor Sanders and others, is how many people are willing to go up to corporate journalists who are on the street or trying to get interviews and be antagonistic toward them.
[00:56:34]  Yes.
[00:56:34]  Call them out on their BS, as opposed to years where Republicans and conservatives would be yelling at, let's suppose, Pelosi or Obama or Biden, whereas the New York Times and all these other, the Washington Post could be safe in their offices lobbing bombs and no one's coming near them.
[00:56:51]  Is this something that you also see as a white pill in terms of saving?
[00:56:56]  Oh, I totally agree.
[00:56:57]  It's such a good point.
[00:56:58]  I mean, it's just regular people challenging tyrants gives me hope.
[00:57:02]  And I just want to reinforce this, that let me take your premise from the final previous question.
[00:57:06]  60 to 70% of Americans don't love freedom.
[00:57:09]  Well, it only takes a small group of liberty lovers, though, to light fires of liberty in every corner.
[00:57:13]  It's Samuel Adams' favorite, you know, famous quote, to eventually people will start to catch on.
[00:57:17]  All it takes is a person here and there to go confront Gavin Newsom when he's in Napa Valley.
[00:57:21]  Hey, why are you here?
[00:57:22]  What's going on?
[00:57:23]  You get Botox recently?
[00:57:24]  Like, you look kind of weird.
[00:57:25]  Like, are you going to French laundry again?
[00:57:27]  Like, that kind of citizen journalism, what we call the rise of the citizen at Turning Point USA, rise of the citizen, gives me great, great hope.
[00:57:34]  And I will say, though, that you're dealing also with something that can constantly change.
[00:57:40]  And so it's incumbent on us, those of us that have platforms, to make arguments and to know the pie can increase.
[00:57:45]  And that even though not everyone is with us now, more people can be with us.
[00:57:49]  And so the untold story, or I should say the unexpected benefit of COVID was a lot of people realizing how corrupt and deceitful and treacherous, not just our government, though.
[00:58:02]  Pfizer is, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Facebook.
[00:58:06]  It's the power structures in general, not just the CDC, the FDA, and the federal government.
[00:58:12]  And so, look, the fact that regular everyday people are rising up to challenge authority, it's probably one of our best hopes.
[00:58:19]  One of my biggest, we're almost out.
[00:58:21]  One of my biggest criticisms of President Trump is how he left the January 6th people who were his biggest supporters in some ways out to dry.
[00:58:29]  He has not really spoken out in favor of them or done much to defend them.
[00:58:33]  What is your take on that position?
[00:58:35]  Yeah, I don't know.
[00:58:35]  He's talked a fair amount.
[00:58:37]  I don't know about that.
[00:58:37]  Are you talking about the political prisoners in DC?
[00:58:40]  Yeah.
[00:58:41]  I mean, some people have said, you know, that they would like to see more action there.
[00:58:47]  I mean, I'll say this.
[00:58:48]  The nonviolent ones, yes.
[00:58:50]  Some of them are being charged for some pretty serious stuff.
[00:58:52]  However, regardless of that, zero of them should be in solitary confinement.
[00:58:56]  Zero of them should be political prisoners.
[00:58:59]  And all of them should be treated like anyone else in a different political stripe that did what they did.
[00:59:02]  So I just want to be very clear.
[00:59:03]  I condemn the violence.
[00:59:04]  And there's some guys that were banging police officers over the head.
[00:59:07]  Not good at all.
[00:59:08]  But I've spoken out against it.
[00:59:10]  I mean, political prisoners, and you know this very well, you talk about on your program.
[00:59:14]  That is a sign of a totalitarian government more than anything else.
[00:59:17]  I'm rereading a phenomenal book, Darkness at Noon, by Arthur Kessler.
[00:59:22]  Yeah, it's fabulous, all about political prison.
[00:59:24]  The whole book's about political prisoners.
[00:59:25]  And it just says in such vivid detail, it's like, wow, this is what's happened to the January 6th defendants.
[00:59:30]  It doesn't matter what you've done.
[00:59:31]  It doesn't matter your history.
[00:59:32]  They're going to try to find a fact pattern, even if they have to create it to put you in prison.
[00:59:38]  Charlie, we're running out of time.
[00:59:39]  What has been your favorite part of this interview?
[00:59:43]  I love being asked about the libertarian thing.
[00:59:45]  I love it.
[00:59:45]  I mean, I wish I had more time because the thing is, I mean, no one can kind of like out-libertarian the literature with me.
[00:59:52]  So I get all of it, right?
[00:59:54]  And so I have to come back on and we should talk about it.
[00:59:56]  And you could have a libertarian on because at a deep level, I have such respect for some of the beauty of the arguments.
[01:00:02]  I really do.
[01:00:02]  Von Mises was a legitimately brilliant person, right?
[01:00:06]  Rothbard made some unbelievable points.
[01:00:08]  Same with Friedman and Soul and all these guys.
[01:00:10]  So anyway, I just enjoy talking about that because it was a big part of my life.
[01:00:14]  You are welcome.
[01:00:18]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[01:00:19]  Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[01:00:22]  Thanks so much.
[01:00:23]  Talk to you soon.
[01:00:26]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.