The Charlie Kirk Show - Drugs, Demons, and Democrats with Mike Cernovich
Aired: 2022-07-01
Duration: 36:05


=== Spiritual Power of Never Giving Up (06:15) ===

[00:00:00]  Okay, everybody, today the Charlie Kirk show, Drugs, Demons, and Democrats, a conversation with Mike Cernovich.
[00:00:05]  We talk about Democrats and the chance of the midterms coming in November.
[00:00:08]  And we also talk about Mike Cernovich's encounter with Ayahuasca, which is a psychedelic.
[00:00:14]  I am by no means endorsing this.
[00:00:17]  In fact, I oppose it.
[00:00:18]  Ayahuasca is the closest thing to what the Bible would call to be pharmakia.
[00:00:22]  However, Mike's own telling of it is worth listening to because it actually has strengthened his belief in Christianity and validates the teachings of the Bible.
[00:00:31]  And if any of you are having questions of faith, listen to this.
[00:00:35]  There is a spiritual dimension.
[00:00:37]  So again, I just want to reinforce this.
[00:00:39]  I am not endorsing ayahuasca.
[00:00:41]  In fact, I think it's really bad for people to do.
[00:00:43]  It can mess you up.
[00:00:45]  It's because I know I would get a flood of emails from you guys if I did not properly do that.
[00:00:49]  Email me, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:51]  Subscribe to our podcast and get involved with Turning Point USA and come to our student action summit at tpusa.com slash SAS.
[00:00:59]  That is tpusa.com slash SAS.
[00:01:02]  Turning Point Action will be hosting Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis there.
[00:01:06]  And at our Turning Point USA event, Kaylee McEnany, Ted Cruz, Laura Ingram, Josh Hawley, Greg Gutfeld, Donald Trump Jr., Kim Guilfoyle, Kat Tim, Pete Hegseth, Byron Donalds, Ben Carson, Rick Scott, Lauren Boebert, Governor Kevin Stitt, Kat Kamack, Matt Gates, Jack Basobic, Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, Sean Foyt, Pastor Mark Burns, Pastor David Engelhart, and Pastor Samuel Duth.
[00:01:26]  Wow.
[00:01:28]  Tpusa.com.
[00:01:30]  Slash s a s.
[00:01:33]  You can always email me your thoughts, as always.
[00:01:34]  Freedom at Charliekirk.com.
[00:01:36]  That is freedom at Charliekirk.com.
[00:01:40]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:01:42]  Here we go.
[00:01:43]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:01:44]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
[00:01:47]  I want you to know.
[00:01:47]  We are lucky to have Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk's running the White House.
[00:01:52]  Folks, I want to thank Charlie.
[00:01:54]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:55]  His spirit, his love of this country.
[00:01:57]  He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:02:02]  Turning point.
[00:02:04]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:02:12]  That's why we are here, brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew And Todd at Sierra Pacific mortgage at Andrewandtodd.com.
[00:02:24]  What time is it?
[00:02:26]  In the conservative movement, I believe that is the most operative question we can ask, what time is it to help me unpack?
[00:02:33]  This is a very wise man, someone i've known for quite a while and I check his twitter feed often for how he is analyzing things.
[00:02:41]  Mike Cernovich.
[00:02:42]  Mike, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show.
[00:02:44]  My pleasure, man.
[00:02:45]  How are you good?
[00:02:46]  It's been a while.
[00:02:47]  So let me ask the question, what time is it and how should we?
[00:02:52]  How should, how should we respond to our leaders unable to answer that question?
[00:02:58]  Well, I mean, what time it is is the surprise.
[00:03:02]  You know, Ben Shapiro did a thing with Jeremy Boring Uh, with their at their UM event the other night where they said nobody thought Roe Versus Wade would ever be overturned.
[00:03:10]  I would have bet Anything, anything that it never would have been overturned.
[00:03:15]  And I don't mean that in a negative way, just predictively.
[00:03:18]  Nobody ever thought this would happen.
[00:03:20]  I went to law school 20 years ago.
[00:03:21]  The idea that Roe versus Wade was going to be overturned was always a pipe dream.
[00:03:26]  So I think when you think about these things, you always want to think about the spiritual lesson more so than the current event.
[00:03:33]  You always want to contextualize it.
[00:03:35]  And it just shows the power of people never giving up, right?
[00:03:40]  That really is the lesson that I took from this is, because if you'd asked me, hey, lead the charge against Roe versus Wade, I would say, well, I've, that's just not going to happen.
[00:03:48]  I got other things to do with my day.
[00:03:50]  It's just not going to happen.
[00:03:51]  No offense.
[00:03:52]  You know, all love for you, but just it is what it is.
[00:03:56]  And that's why you just, you can just never give up when you have the left certainly not giving up.
[00:04:01]  But I think that's the lesson here is you have to keep the pressure on people.
[00:04:05]  You have to be unrelenting.
[00:04:07]  You have to keep demanding that the judges, you know, the judicial appointments matter.
[00:04:12]  So that really is a lesson that you can't ever give up on anything in life.
[00:04:16]  Not that we didn't know this, but even I consider myself a relatively smart guy.
[00:04:20]  And I didn't think this would ever happen, this day would ever happen.
[00:04:23]  So score one for the people who never quit and kept doing the March for Lives every year, kept hounding their senators and Congress members to vote for the right people and to make sure this happened.
[00:04:35]  And it was a relentless campaign over many decades and a spiritual one as well.
[00:04:40]  So Mike, what do you have to say to some Republicans that are still kind of very focused on, let's just say, non-controversial issues, corporate taxes, regulatory reform?
[00:04:50]  Isn't a lesson post-Roe versus Wade being overturned?
[00:04:53]  Now's the time for us to think big, to go for the impossible.
[00:04:58]  I mean, the conventional orthodoxy is that you're right.
[00:05:00]  No one thought this was possible.
[00:05:02]  We've talked about that over the last, you know, over the last week in particular.
[00:05:06]  So where do we go from here?
[00:05:08]  What is the, what should the ethos of the conservative movement be then?
[00:05:12]  Well, the big movement here culturally is that the Christians within the conservative movement were always looked down upon by, you know, real Republicans.
[00:05:22]  They never really liked the Christians.
[00:05:23]  They tolerated them to win.
[00:05:25]  And Josh Holly had a profound observation because he understands this.
[00:05:29]  He's lived in both worlds, right?
[00:05:30]  He's gone to elite law schools.
[00:05:32]  He was, I believe, a Supreme Court clerk.
[00:05:34]  He's traveled in both of those worlds, right?
[00:05:36]  And he realized how looked down upon Christians are amongst all of these big business chamber of commerce, so-called conservatives.
[00:05:46]  So the lesson here is that the real Christians don't need the Chamber of Commerce people, right?
[00:05:51]  You have to make an adjustment now of who has the power.
[00:05:56]  And I say that not as a negative way to abuse power, but you have to look at who actually matters and who doesn't.
[00:06:02]  And these people who think that elections are about whether or not the marginal tax rate is going to be 18% or 15%, you're along to the ride with these other people.
[00:06:13]  You're not the ones dictating the agenda anymore.

=== Witness Protection and Epstein's Island (04:21) ===

[00:06:15]  So I think what you have to do here is you have to press the advantage hard and you have to remind these people: look, we did all this without you.
[00:06:22]  We all remember the 2016 election and the betrayal.
[00:06:26]  You were a big part of that.
[00:06:27]  Cernovich doesn't get the, I mean, you get the credit for me, but you were one of the top people online that really exposed Hillary.
[00:06:33]  Sorry, go ahead.
[00:06:35]  Well, thank you.
[00:06:35]  Yeah.
[00:06:36]  And that's still, that's the lesson here is you have to remind people now by you, I mean, people like you who are still in the game.
[00:06:42]  I'm not really, I'm, you know, focused on other things in my life right now.
[00:06:45]  I don't consider myself much of a relevant player, if at all, but folks like you and the kind of people who watch these shows, you have to go say, look, look, look, we're not the orphan here, the stepchild who's being abused by you anymore.
[00:07:01]  You're kind of on the ride with us.
[00:07:02]  You kind of have to do what we want to do.
[00:07:04]  And if you want your legislation to go forward, then here's what you have to do for us.
[00:07:08]  And that really has to be pressed and emphasized.
[00:07:11]  So I'm shifting gears a little bit.
[00:07:13]  So the Ghelaine Maxwell and Epstein case kind of has finally come to a close.
[00:07:19]  She gets 20 years in prison or something like that when R. Kelly gets 30 years in prison.
[00:07:24]  You've covered that entire, I don't want to call it industry, but that dark underbelly of humanity.
[00:07:31]  What's your reaction to the case?
[00:07:33]  What do you think was missing from it?
[00:07:34]  Help us fill in the pieces here.
[00:07:37]  Yeah, well, what's missing is that any lawyer will tell you this.
[00:07:41]  In any kind of case like this, Ghelane Maxwell would have got five years and she would have given up names, right?
[00:07:47]  The way that these cases ordinarily work is you have someone like her and you say, okay, you can expose 50 people, 100 people, a large number of people.
[00:07:56]  We'll give you five years, maybe give you witness protection.
[00:07:59]  That's the way it should have been done, right?
[00:08:00]  So think about it like this.
[00:08:01]  Sammy the Bull Gravano was put in witness protection program for his testimony in exchange to bring down John Gotti and other members of the mob.
[00:08:11]  Sammy the Bull had killed dozens of people.
[00:08:13]  Nobody knows for sure, but it was a large number of people.
[00:08:15]  So the government will take an actual murderer, someone who's murdered tens, hundreds of people, and say, look, we'll put you in witness protection, but you have to give up the names of everybody higher up in the food chain.
[00:08:27]  So that didn't happen with this case.
[00:08:29]  This case was a farce from day one.
[00:08:31]  It was a mop-up operation from day one, just the way Epstein was arrested and they didn't raid every property.
[00:08:38]  Remember that?
[00:08:39]  They only raided one property in New York, his New Mexico place.
[00:08:43]  That wasn't done until weeks later.
[00:08:45]  The St. James Island, that wasn't done until weeks later.
[00:08:48]  The Florida property wasn't done until weeks later until people could have gone there and gotten rid of any kind of incriminating evidence.
[00:08:54]  So this is a fundamental case of look for what didn't happen.
[00:08:58]  Look for the dog not barking.
[00:09:00]  And what didn't happen is Ghelaine should have been put in witness protection.
[00:09:03]  She should have given up all the names, and I'm sure she would have.
[00:09:06]  But after Epstein, of course, committed suicide, that wasn't really an option for her.
[00:09:11]  She saw what was going to happen.
[00:09:12]  And you would put her in witness protection.
[00:09:14]  You'd take down these powerful people.
[00:09:16]  Bill Clinton maybe would be up there.
[00:09:19]  And it didn't happen.
[00:09:21]  So that tells you it was a mop-up operation from the highest levels of the Department of Justice of the FBI.
[00:09:26]  It's frankly demoralizing and disgraceful.
[00:09:29]  How widespread is your speculation that that went?
[00:09:33]  I mean, we won't know for sure.
[00:09:34]  And answer me this question.
[00:09:36]  Why is it that the women that did the press conference afterwards, they said, this is not justice, she should die in prison.
[00:09:41]  Did anyone, and I'm not that in the weeds in this, did anyone ask those women who else was on the island?
[00:09:46]  I mean, that's a question that I haven't really seen flushed out.
[00:09:50]  Yeah, but there was deposition testimony where Virginia Roberts had said Bill Clinton had been to the island multiple times, and that came out.
[00:09:56]  Bill Clinton still gave a speech at the DNC.
[00:09:59]  I mean, my God, you get canceled for tweets these days.
[00:10:01]  But if you're in sworn testimony is being identified as a guest of Epstein's island, then you can go speak at the DNC the very next week and nothing really is going to happen.
[00:10:11]  So that I think Daryl, I mean, if I were them, would I be afraid?
[00:10:16]  Right.
[00:10:16]  I would.
[00:10:18]  Remember, killing Epstein or Epstein's suicide, depending.
[00:10:21]  We're on Rumble, so I guess we can.
[00:10:23]  You can do whatever you want.
[00:10:24]  We can talk with Kender here.
[00:10:25]  So killing Epstein wasn't about silencing Epstein.
[00:10:29]  It was saying, look, we can go into jail and kill him.
[00:10:33]  So you're going to run your mouth.
[00:10:35]  You're going to open your mouth up too much.

=== Inflation, Prices, and Political Failure (07:25) ===

[00:10:37]  Just take this money.
[00:10:38]  We'll have this pool of money from the Epstein estate.
[00:10:41]  Nobody, by the way, found out how he made his money, how he had $500 million.
[00:10:45]  Nobody knows who is his broker, all these things.
[00:10:49]  There's a paper trail for everything.
[00:10:51]  And right?
[00:10:52]  You can't buy and sell a stock without there being a paper trail.
[00:10:55]  So who is his prime broker?
[00:10:57]  Who was loaning him money?
[00:10:59]  Who is his market maker?
[00:11:01]  Right?
[00:11:02]  Nope, nope, no, no evidence there.
[00:11:04]  Nobody wants to know, but Steve Bannon, you know, they come after him because of a we build the wall thing in the SDNY, which nobody in New York was donating to that anyway.
[00:11:13]  So it's like, so wait a minute, if you're doing events, and Bannon was doing events because I've seen them, he was doing events.
[00:11:20]  And they're like, well, no, but you had a bank account in New York.
[00:11:23]  So therefore, that's jurisdiction for us to go after you for something in El Paso, Texas.
[00:11:28]  But we're not going to, SDNY isn't going to look into Epstein's brokerage's accounts and banks.
[00:11:33]  Or yeah, at a place in downtown Manhattan.
[00:11:38]  Look, inflation is out of control.
[00:11:40]  One area we see it more than ever is the grocery store.
[00:11:42]  Even though grocery prices feel like they've doubled, Good Ranchers' prices have stayed low and affordable.
[00:11:47]  Once you subscribe, it's locked in.
[00:11:48]  The price never goes up.
[00:11:49]  Your best price is locked in for life.
[00:11:51]  They sell 100% American meat and deliver it to your door for a great price.
[00:11:56]  Good Ranchers help solve your meat problem.
[00:11:58]  And the problem is 85% of the grass-fed beef in stores and online is imported.
[00:12:02]  Shop Good Ranchers for all your beef, chicken, and seafood needs.
[00:12:05]  Their pre-trimmed and pre-marinated chicken breasts are absolutely delicious.
[00:12:09]  I love Good Ranchers, and you guys should too.
[00:12:11]  Their animals are ethically raised and they're beautifully sourced.
[00:12:15]  They do the things the right way and it shows in every box.
[00:12:17]  Good Ranchers takes the guest work out of the meat aisle and grocery shopping.
[00:12:21]  Get a steakhouse quality at home with Good Ranchers.
[00:12:24]  Right now, go to goodranchers.com/slash Charlie and do it right now.
[00:12:29]  It's Good Ranchers, American meat delivered.
[00:12:31]  I love Good Ranchers.
[00:12:32]  When Good Ranchers get delivered to our home or to our office, it's something incredible.
[00:12:38]  If you don't buy the meat in your house, tell the person who does to check out Good Ranchers.
[00:12:43]  Support the Charlie Kirk Show, support America, goodranchers.com/slash Charlie.
[00:12:51]  So, Mike, something I always appreciate about your commentary is that you're equally critical of the right and the left because you're not really in the game, as you say.
[00:12:58]  But I'm going to ask you to kind of help make sense of something for me that I can't quite understand.
[00:13:03]  What is the Democrat strategy heading into the midterms?
[00:13:06]  Let's just, you know, no bias.
[00:13:08]  What are they thinking?
[00:13:09]  What are their internal strategy sessions?
[00:13:11]  Help me understand this.
[00:13:13]  Well, they're having their own neo-Bolshevik civil war where the purges are happening within the party.
[00:13:20]  That's exactly they're afraid of their own far left flank than they are of winning the elections.
[00:13:26]  And that's a very big mistake that they're making right now is they're allowing themselves to be pulled to the far left and they're looking at really disastrous outcomes for the midterm election.
[00:13:37]  Whereas, because the issues, if you look at it, I'll text you this.
[00:13:40]  It was interesting.
[00:13:41]  There's a guy, I follow a lot of, as you, as you know, wide variety accounts.
[00:13:45]  I follow a lot of just what I call like normie, politically adjacent people, because I think that's the best way to get your finger on the pulse.
[00:13:52]  Is okay, here's a guy who 90% of his stuff isn't political, and then occasionally a political thing will come up.
[00:13:58]  And he did a poll saying, you know, what issue matters most to you right now?
[00:14:02]  And he listed guns, abortion, inflation, and gas prices.
[00:14:06]  And, you know, inflation and gas prices were the number two things.
[00:14:10]  Now, for us, we're like, well, that's obvious, but we don't ever want to suffer from confirmation bias, right?
[00:14:15]  We don't want to just think, well, you know, Mike Cernovitch says that this matters most of all.
[00:14:19]  Well, sure, but I could be up my own in my own silo, right?
[00:14:23]  We always want to see what people are, take the temperature of other people.
[00:14:26]  And it should be nothing but inflation should be talked about.
[00:14:30]  It should be nothing but gas prices should be talked about if you're a Democrat.
[00:14:33]  But they can't do that because their far left is in a full revolt over, you know, Roe versus Wade.
[00:14:40]  The protests were actually totally subdued.
[00:14:42]  Everything that we were told was going to happen didn't really happen.
[00:14:45]  There was Antifa got to play.
[00:14:47]  They use every protest as an opportunity to commit crimes, but these protests were mild.
[00:14:52]  They're pretty much over at this point.
[00:14:55]  So if I were advising Democrats, they wouldn't listen to me.
[00:14:59]  I would say you people are being destroyed by your feral far left-wing lunatics.
[00:15:04]  And that's a huge mistake going into the midterm elections.
[00:15:07]  And they're even trying to, you know, CNN is trying to badger Senema and Manchin to do in the filibuster, thinking, wait, so you want to abolish the filibuster right before the most consequential midterm election since 2010 when Republicans are about to take control.
[00:15:24]  Didn't you learn anything from Harry Reid abolishing the filibuster?
[00:15:29]  What are you people doing, right?
[00:15:31]  So that's where I'm looking at it is right.
[00:15:33]  Remember, Napoleon, when the enemy's making a mistake, don't interrupt them.
[00:15:37]  So I'm very much just, you guys keep making your mistakes.
[00:15:41]  I'm going to watch it.
[00:15:42]  I think this is foolhardy what you're doing, but it's not my job to help Democrats.
[00:15:46]  Yeah, I think that's smart.
[00:15:47]  Do you think there's anything to the point where the seat of the equivalent benefit for them will be they can now have a reason and excuse to get rid of Biden to put him out to pasture?
[00:15:56]  Right.
[00:15:57]  It doesn't seem like anyone is attaching to Biden right now.
[00:16:00]  Seems like Gavin Newsom is more likely to be the nominee, in my own personal opinion, than Joe Biden.
[00:16:06]  What's your thoughts on that?
[00:16:08]  Yeah, I don't think anybody thought he'd be around in 2024.
[00:16:12]  The no cards, for example, it's been elder abuse.
[00:16:16]  That's what I've called it since almost the first year of his presidency.
[00:16:19]  If you look at that note card, I thought it was fake.
[00:16:21]  I thought it was a meme.
[00:16:22]  You here, you here.
[00:16:24]  Well, they're doing that to humiliate him and making sure that people are getting pictures of those cards, right?
[00:16:28]  They're setting him up for failure.
[00:16:30]  And they have been.
[00:16:31]  They set up Camela for failure right away.
[00:16:33]  Pesobic had done great reporting on that, where getting the inside scoop of how they're giving her the impossible challenges.
[00:16:39]  Oh, go to the border, Camela.
[00:16:41]  Go to the border and solve that problem.
[00:16:43]  Good job in giving her all the terrible things.
[00:16:46]  And they're setting Biden up too.
[00:16:47]  It'll be Newsome in 2024.
[00:16:48]  I think that's no, nobody's going to beat Newsom.
[00:16:51]  He survived a recall.
[00:16:53]  He's got charisma.
[00:16:54]  He's good looking.
[00:16:55]  He goes for, he's got everything Democrats want, which is no substance, but he's good looking and charming.
[00:17:00]  So we're going to vote for him.
[00:17:01]  And he can raise a ton of money.
[00:17:03]  Yeah.
[00:17:03]  Ton of money.
[00:17:04]  He's a radical far-left-wing activist.
[00:17:06]  He's in with Pelosi.
[00:17:08]  So for me, my biggest fear right now, and I think it's shared by a lot of people, is here's what Republicans, here's what the Republican leadership is going to say.
[00:17:18]  They're going to say, Cernovich, you know, here you are telling us that the Democrats need to focus on inflation and the Democrats need to focus on gas prices.
[00:17:27]  So then when we take the majority, how come you're going to tell us to investigate Garland for terrorizing people?
[00:17:33]  How come you're going to tell us to reform the FBI?
[00:17:35]  Is it your whole message here?
[00:17:37]  The Democrats need to focus on economic issues.
[00:17:40]  And my response, because I always think about what are people going to argue, you know, like what would be the strongest argument against my point of view?
[00:17:47]  And my answer to that is: if you don't reform the FBI when you have the opportunity, there's not going to be any 2024 election because they're just going to keep indicting politics.
[00:17:58]  They're going to make everybody terrified to work for Republican.
[00:18:01]  Look what they're doing to lawyers, Jeffrey Clark.

=== Plant Medicine and Deceptive Experiences (05:00) ===

[00:18:03]  So they're just scalping people one by one.
[00:18:05]  So you don't have, you don't have anybody, right?
[00:18:09]  You won't have anybody in 2024.
[00:18:13]  Look, as you know, our friend Mike Lindell has amazing passion and especially has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life.
[00:18:20]  He didn't stop by simply creating the best pillow.
[00:18:22]  Now, Mike has done it again by introducing My Slippers.
[00:18:26]  For unlimited time, you'll save $90 on a pair of MySlippers.
[00:18:29]  This blowout sale of the year won't last, so order now.
[00:18:31]  Mike has taken over two years to develop this.
[00:18:33]  The MySlippers are designed to wear indoors out all day long, made with MyPillow foam and impact gel to help prevent fatigue, made with quality leather suede.
[00:18:42]  Call 800-875-0425 or click on promo code Kirk or mypillow.com.
[00:18:48]  Click on the radio listener square and use promo code Kirk.
[00:18:50]  This offer will not last long.
[00:18:52]  So, order now with promo code Kirk at mypillow.com, promo code Kirk at mypillow.com.
[00:18:59]  So, Mike, I don't know how long we want to spend on this, but I'm just curious.
[00:19:03]  And I'm by no means endorsing this.
[00:19:05]  In fact, I have seen some horror stories about it, which is ayahuasca.
[00:19:11]  I might be mispronouncing it, but you did it.
[00:19:14]  You talk favorably about it with your experience.
[00:19:17]  Walk our audience through that.
[00:19:19]  Yeah, and I'm in the same position where I definitely don't endorse it, especially, you know, don't want to seem like I'm encouraging a Christian audience to look into this stuff.
[00:19:29]  But for me, it was, you know, an exploration that began maybe 15 years ago.
[00:19:35]  And the experiences that I've had, and, you know, subject to the caveat that a lot of people will say this is a deceptive experience and that you have to be careful with what you see.
[00:19:46]  And that's where some of the bad stories come from, because you do encounter a lot of both sides, right?
[00:19:54]  Everybody talks about the plus side, but then people don't really talk about the deception that people are opening to it, that they're susceptible to.
[00:20:02]  But for me, it certainly opened up my eyes to true knowledge that there is a spiritual world and we are going to be held into account.
[00:20:13]  And I don't want to proselyte any particular religion, but we're going to be accountable for what we do.
[00:20:19]  And what we do here that could be perfectly legal, could be perfectly ethical within the confines of the American system and American values might not be seen that way on the other end.
[00:20:33]  And we're definitely held to a higher standard, I think, than I ever thought.
[00:20:36]  So it's given me a lot of those realizations and it's given me a lot of just deeper psychological insight into what I really valued, what I was afraid of losing.
[00:20:49]  Things that I thought I was afraid of losing are not necessarily what I was really afraid of losing.
[00:20:55]  So it really forces you to confront yourself and what you've been running from and what you've been hiding from.
[00:21:01]  So just so our audience knows, Ayuasuka is a plant-based psychedelic.
[00:21:05]  That's probably the best way to describe it.
[00:21:08]  It's usually indigenous near the Amazon basin.
[00:21:10]  And just to give the Christian disclaimer, it is what I believe is described in the New Testament as pharmakia.
[00:21:16]  So not endorsing it.
[00:21:17]  But I'm interested, Mike, where did you go to do it?
[00:21:20]  And tell us just kind of intimately of your experience through it, because your conclusion of there being a spiritual dimension, I think, is actually rather fruitful, especially for some of the secular humanists that I'm always fighting against.
[00:21:32]  Yeah, that's what's interesting.
[00:21:33]  And I said the same thing when I talked with Alex about it is a New Testament view would consider it sorcery or pharmakea would consider it a grave sin.
[00:21:43]  And that's why I definitely would not want to lead anyone astray in terms of what they would think.
[00:21:48]  So to be clear, I'm certainly not advocating for other people.
[00:21:50]  I'm just explaining what I've done and what I encountered.
[00:21:54]  And yeah, some people call it a plant medicine.
[00:21:57]  A lot of veterans have begun using it.
[00:22:00]  A lot of people with PTSD, a lot of people who have maybe had alcohol problems, opioids.
[00:22:05]  And there's a whole new school of that opening up where you have ibogaine is what a lot of people, veterans use, especially Navy SEALs.
[00:22:13]  There's a whole program for that.
[00:22:14]  There's nonprofits devoted to that.
[00:22:16]  There are other people have found different plant substances, and it's a really complicated subject spiritually, but the process itself is really quite strange.
[00:22:27]  And I'll try to explain it as best I can.
[00:22:29]  So, you know, you're, in my case, it was in South Africa and you're, you know, you're given like this little cup.
[00:22:36]  It's like, imagine you brew a double shot of espresso and you leave that out for two days and then it bottoms up.
[00:22:43]  It's the most disgusting thing that I've ever drank in my life.
[00:22:48]  And you take the shot and then you just sit there and immediately think, What did I just do?
[00:22:53]  I think this is maybe I just made a huge mistake, but by then it's a little too late.
[00:22:59]  And you're just sitting, you're just sitting there, and then they call it blasting off.

=== Transformational Aspects and Warnings (13:01) ===

[00:23:03]  The next thing you know, you are in a dimension that one feels more familiar and more real than this world.
[00:23:11]  That's why it's strange when it's called a hallucinogen, because wherever the spirit world is, is where we came from.
[00:23:20]  And the spirit world is more real than this world.
[00:23:22]  This world starts to feel like the hallucination because we're, because the spiritual being, once the soul is roaming free, you realize, okay, we are really a soul and we overemphasize the body maybe too much.
[00:23:35]  We overemphasize this world maybe a little too much.
[00:23:37]  So you feel like a lot of people say, like, you feel like you're home.
[00:23:40]  You feel like you're where you're where it kind of like all began.
[00:23:45]  And then you alternate through different situations.
[00:23:48]  So, for example, I went through an experience where I was, it could be very beautiful for a moment, right?
[00:23:55]  I was in a very beautiful situation where I was looking at something that I thought was important in my life.
[00:24:03]  And then as you're going through this, because again, it feels more real than this world, things start to be taken from you.
[00:24:09]  So, for example, like, you know, I have a podcast or books or whatever the case is, and I think this is really what I value.
[00:24:15]  And then you wake up and you're a new person and you don't have any of those things.
[00:24:20]  And you kind of shrug your shoulder, like, oh, okay, that never really bothered me before.
[00:24:23]  But then you think about, oh man, like my parents are really poor.
[00:24:27]  Like, what was that like?
[00:24:28]  I, you know, I grew up poor and I was really, as a kid, I felt like that was a tough situation for me as a kid.
[00:24:33]  And then I thought about what it was like for my parents to be poor.
[00:24:36]  And I started crying, right?
[00:24:38]  Like, oh my, because your heart's fully open.
[00:24:40]  And I think, wow, all this time I thought it was tough for me being a poor kid growing up, but I had tons of love.
[00:24:46]  My dad didn't smoke.
[00:24:48]  You know, no drinking, no domestic abuse maybe that other people have had in homes where people drank.
[00:24:55]  And I thought, wow, what a, how hard must it have been for my dad to just work in factories to try to support a family and knowing he had all this pressure on him to raise a family?
[00:25:06]  And how is he going to get by?
[00:25:08]  And how great was it that my parents were able to do what they did with what they didn't have?
[00:25:12]  So all this time, I was thinking about me and how I grew up.
[00:25:15]  And then I realized it's like it like rips open your heart and you feel this empathy for everyone who sacrificed for us, right?
[00:25:23]  They gave up for us.
[00:25:24]  So everything you think that was a challenge for you was nothing compared to what your parents went through.
[00:25:29]  So my heart was completely opened in a way to the struggle that other people had.
[00:25:35]  And it happens in such a deeply emotional way that you're just, you just lay there, you're just crying, right?
[00:25:42]  I remember just like crying, like, oh my God, I'm like crying.
[00:25:45]  And it feels good to cry because the heart was opened up because the heart becomes very hardened.
[00:25:51]  Because to live in this world, you have to be a hard person.
[00:25:53]  Or so I thought, right?
[00:25:54]  So a lot of views I had, oh, you know, real men don't cry.
[00:25:58]  To live in this world, you have to be a hard ass.
[00:26:00]  You have to, you know, do what you got to do.
[00:26:02]  You got to be blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.
[00:26:05]  And maybe to maybe to some degree, you do have to live in this world and find a way to make it, but it really is about the heart.
[00:26:11]  It's about the love you have with other people.
[00:26:13]  It's about the human connection that you have.
[00:26:15]  It's about the divine nature.
[00:26:17]  It's about the soul.
[00:26:19]  And I re-shifted a lot of priorities in my life and focused more on the loving aspect and the heart aspect of life.
[00:26:28]  And then I started exploring the religion after that, because before that, I was thinking, oh, come on, man.
[00:26:34]  I just never had the, I went to church growing up, you know, with the home churches.
[00:26:38]  I grew very religious, but I never had that sense, right?
[00:26:44]  Because I think some of us don't, just like you see, you hear.
[00:26:46]  I never had that sense.
[00:26:48]  And that opened my world up to a belief in God and then into other spiritual explorations and finding out that a lot of what's taught or what was taught to me was a very harsh version of Christianity.
[00:27:01]  And that, you know, true Christianity is breathing into the heart.
[00:27:06]  It's learning to love.
[00:27:07]  It's learning to have more empathy for people.
[00:27:09]  And it maybe isn't necessarily what I thought it was.
[00:27:12]  Yeah, that's that's fascinating.
[00:27:13]  It's well, good description there.
[00:27:16]  And I just want, you know, to reinforce this, that you had a favorable experience and takeaway.
[00:27:24]  I actually think that's the minority.
[00:27:26]  I've met people where it really messed them up, but there is a transformational aspect to it, which is, you know, why the scriptures warn against kind of pharmakea and going into those dimensions.
[00:27:35]  But I do want to ask you, though, Mike, you know, you're in this fight for quite some time, and now you know certain that there is a spiritual dimension, which I completely and totally agree.
[00:27:44]  How do you think that spiritual dimension manifests itself in politics or in culture, if at all?
[00:27:49]  Well, once your eyes have been opened a little bit, or in my case, you know, my eyes have been open a little bit, you see things.
[00:27:56]  You learn the number one thing I learned intellectually is that the timeline the demons are on is not on the timeline that we're on.
[00:28:04]  Demons have your whole life.
[00:28:05]  Because I had a demon, you know, visit me and offered me all this temptation.
[00:28:10]  In the ayahuasca or just generally?
[00:28:12]  On ayahuasca.
[00:28:13]  Yeah.
[00:28:14]  And I was offered all these temptations and I thought, no, I don't want any of this.
[00:28:19]  And I expected the demon to like lash out at me.
[00:28:22]  And the demon said, that's okay.
[00:28:26]  We have your whole life to get you.
[00:28:29]  And that was the most terrifying thing I'd ever heard in my life.
[00:28:33]  I expected to battle demons, wrestle.
[00:28:36]  No, they just said, oh, it's okay.
[00:28:38]  We didn't get you this time.
[00:28:39]  We got your whole life, man.
[00:28:41]  And I thought they are on a different timeline than we are.
[00:28:43]  And then, of course, as I was reading more of the Orthodoxy and the church fathers, they, you know, they say, well, because I was raised in the church where you talked about demons, but not in the way that I found a lot of the Orthodox church fathers talk about, where they say, well, of course, demons, they've lived for tens of thousands of years.
[00:29:02]  And you think you're as smart as a human, but you have nothing compared to them.
[00:29:06]  And then, of course, angels are another story themselves.
[00:29:09]  So for me, I realized that it's a struggle, you know, every day.
[00:29:16]  They're after you every day.
[00:29:17]  I'd read the screw tape letters too, but this hit me in an emotional way.
[00:29:21]  Screw tape letters, I think, is the best way to conceptualize by the way.
[00:29:25]  Phenomenal.
[00:29:26]  By C.S. Lewis.
[00:29:27]  Yeah, that's the best way to intellectualize it, which is, oh, you and your, you know, you and your friends are quibbling about money or quibbling about business or quibbling about ego.
[00:29:36]  Well, a lot of that's just demons whispering things into other people's ears.
[00:29:39]  Well, but Charlie doesn't do enough for you, or this person doesn't do enough for you, Charlie.
[00:29:44]  And you start to buy into that.
[00:29:46]  And that's how they get you.
[00:29:47]  It's not always they come in and terrify you, right?
[00:29:50]  That was the usual view: they come and they scare you, but that won't work for a lot of people because some people think, oh, if you're going to attack me that way, I'm going to fight back.
[00:29:58]  So they do it much more subtly, much more elegantly, and they are on a completely different timeline than we are on.
[00:30:04]  And they have, like, like I said, you know, I have my whole, they have my whole life, your whole life to get you in some way.
[00:30:11]  So you have to be vigilant all the time.
[00:30:12]  And then, of course, politically, that's why they're also on a different thing.
[00:30:16]  They're trying to tear down this country using whatever opportunity they have.
[00:30:20]  Maybe it doesn't work today, but they know, oh, there'll be another George Floyd incident, and then they'll use that to push, and there'll be another incident.
[00:30:27]  They'll use that to push.
[00:30:28]  They're playing the long game.
[00:30:29]  I want to just reinforce this.
[00:30:30]  I believe we're in a spiritual battle and in a spiritual war that is manifest in the physical.
[00:30:35]  And there's many different ways to go about realizing and recognizing it.
[00:30:39]  But the recognition of that is so incredibly important that this is all just kind of a temporal material reality.
[00:30:48]  And there is a deeper game playing here.
[00:30:50]  There's a deeper existence.
[00:30:52]  And the secular humanists, that, by the way, there are some people on the right that are secular humanists, but they're mostly on the left.
[00:30:59]  They just look at flesh and blood.
[00:31:02]  But our battle is not against flesh and bone or flesh and blood.
[00:31:05]  It's a lot deeper than that.
[00:31:06]  There's a spiritual dimension.
[00:31:08]  And you better believe there's some darkness out there.
[00:31:11]  You could see it cascading over the land.
[00:31:13]  We must bring light to the people.
[00:31:15]  Spiritual dimension manifests itself politically.
[00:31:17]  You could argue the great reset and all this are trying to control.
[00:31:21]  What are the, in your opinion, Mike, what are the kind of characteristics politically that would be probably most embraced by, let's just say, dark, dark spiritual forces?
[00:31:35]  Yeah, the attack on the children is primarily what you learn.
[00:31:38]  You learn this, especially when you, you know, you have children of your own.
[00:31:42]  Like, let's say you're persecuted politically.
[00:31:45]  Jeffrey Clark's being persecuted politically.
[00:31:47]  A number of people are being persecuted politically.
[00:31:50]  You, as an adult, it will be terrible, but you have your faith and you understand and you can conceptualize what's happening.
[00:31:56]  Well, of course, the demons are attacking me.
[00:31:59]  Of course, the demons are attacking Jeffrey Clark.
[00:32:01]  Of course.
[00:32:02]  So it doesn't feel good to be persecuted, or in some cases, Christians will eventually be tortured again, as they were in Roman Coliseum days.
[00:32:09]  But you at least have a way to understand it.
[00:32:12]  Whereas a child, they remain innocent.
[00:32:14]  They don't have knowledge of good and evil.
[00:32:15]  All they know is raw pain and all they know is raw trauma.
[00:32:19]  And that's why, as part of the less religious practices, they want to torment the children, right?
[00:32:25]  Because tormenting an adult, you don't get as much squeeze, right?
[00:32:31]  You're like, if you torment me, torment you.
[00:32:33]  You can laugh and say, ha, ha, ha, we're getting a little bit out of it.
[00:32:36]  But deep down, they know that that'll make a lot of people turn to faith more.
[00:32:40]  That'll bring more people to understand what's happening in the world.
[00:32:43]  But when they target children, they're targeting someone again without the knowledge of good and evil.
[00:32:47]  And it's pure torture for children.
[00:32:50]  And that's why the religion of the left, and it is religion, is to torment children, to abort babies, to take children who are confused because they're going through puberty.
[00:33:00]  I mean, everybody, I mean, if you think about the less war on children with the gender reassignment stuff, I had really bad acne when I was a teenager.
[00:33:08]  I didn't enjoy being a teenager.
[00:33:10]  I like being an old man.
[00:33:11]  If you say, hey, Mike, you want to go back and be 15?
[00:33:13]  I'll be 15 and go through puberty and have pimples all over my face and be confused about the world.
[00:33:20]  No, are you kidding me?
[00:33:21]  I'm glad to be an old man.
[00:33:23]  It's nice.
[00:33:23]  I have a sense of self.
[00:33:24]  I have a sense of identity.
[00:33:26]  I know that when I'm attacked, there's a reason for the attacks.
[00:33:28]  I'm able to conceptualize what is happening to me and put it within a framework of spirituality and even of a secular mindset work, right?
[00:33:38]  So that's why they target the children because they don't have this kind of framework.
[00:33:42]  So they get pure, the demons get more joy out of tormenting children than out of tormenting adults.
[00:33:48]  So you have behind you Saint Michael, if I'm not mistaken, Michael the archangel.
[00:33:53]  What is your current metaphysical belief structure post encountering the spiritual domain?
[00:34:00]  I would just say that everything that I've read is consistent with the truth of Christianity in terms of the spiritual realm, in terms of explain.
[00:34:10]  And I don't say I'm Christian because then people say, well, you tweeted this thing and I don't want anybody to put me as an example of anything, right?
[00:34:17]  I'm just telling you that if you venture into the spirit world, you will believe in the Bible because you realize it's the best explanation of what's happening on a spiritual dimension.
[00:34:29]  And then when you actually read the early church fathers, they'll be like, oh, yeah, of course, Cerno, like idiot.
[00:34:34]  Like we wrote about this stuff.
[00:34:36]  We wrote about the desert fathers being tempted AD 50.
[00:34:40]  So I've been reading about the desert fathers and a lot of what they've experienced.
[00:34:44]  So I would encourage people to definitely read the early church fathers.
[00:34:47]  It adds a lot of depth.
[00:34:49]  So that's it.
[00:34:50]  So you're not a Christian yet, but you believe in the truth of Christianity from a spiritual perspective.
[00:34:56]  Is that fair to say?
[00:34:58]  Yeah, it's fair to say if I were Christian, it's not something that I would want to put out necessarily because that could lead people because I'm not saying that I live a perfect life and I don't want to you don't have to to be a Christian.
[00:35:09]  So just yeah, but I don't I don't want to send people on a bad path, right?
[00:35:13]  That's why when we talk about this, we're being so careful in how we say it is.
[00:35:16]  I don't want to cause anyone else to stumble, but the Christian explanation of the world certainly is the one that makes the most sense.
[00:35:24]  Of existence, for sure.
[00:35:26]  That was so interesting.
[00:35:27]  Thank you, Mike.
[00:35:27]  And thanks for your honesty and openness and your candor.
[00:35:30]  That's not easy to talk about, but I certainly learned a lot and awesome commentary.
[00:35:35]  We went from Democrat midterm strategy to Epstein to ayahuasca to demons.
[00:35:41]  Actually, it all kind of fits.
[00:35:42]  It's all connected, brother.
[00:35:43]  I was going to say, now that I think about it, it's all one topic.
[00:35:47]  Thank you so much, Mike.
[00:35:48]  Awesome as always.
[00:35:49]  Thanks.
[00:35:53]  Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
[00:35:54]  Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:35:57]  Thanks so much for listening.
[00:35:58]  God bless.
[00:36:01]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.