The Charlie Kirk Show - How 'Wokeism' is Waking Up the Masses with Megyn Kelly
Aired: 2021-10-27
Duration: 41:52


=== Wokeism, CRT, and the Left (11:14) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:00]  This very special episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, Megan Kelly.
[00:00:04]  You heard that right.
[00:00:05]  We have a conversation about wokeism, CRT, New York schools, Me Too, the left, and so much more.
[00:00:11]  It's a fascinating conversation with someone who does not call herself a conservative.
[00:00:15]  I think you'll really enjoy this, especially if you have independent women in your life.
[00:00:20]  I think this episode is worth circulating and texting around.
[00:00:23]  Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:26]  If you want to support our show, you could do so at charliekirk.com/slash support.
[00:00:30]  That's charliekirk.com/slash/support.
[00:00:33]  Where if you guys want to help us hire more staff and remain strong, Suzanne from California, thank you for supporting our show.
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[00:00:41]  I want to thank Ryan from Florida, Jerome from Maryland.
[00:00:45]  I want to thank Carl from Montana.
[00:00:47]  I want to thank Greg from North Dakota.
[00:00:50]  And I want to thank Kathy from Iowa, charliekirk.com/slash support, for getting behind the work we are doing.
[00:00:56]  Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:00:57]  If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, come to America Fest, everybody, December 18th, December 19th, December 20, 21, tpusa.com/slash A-M-F-E-S-T TPUSA.com/slash amfest.
[00:01:09]  Check it out, everybody.
[00:01:10]  tpusa.com/slash amfest.
[00:01:12]  Megan Kelly is here.
[00:01:14]  Send this episode to your friends and make sure you're subscribed to the Charlie Kirk Show podcast.
[00:01:18]  Buckle up.
[00:01:19]  Here we go.
[00:01:20]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:01:22]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
[00:01:24]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:01:27]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:01:31]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:01:32]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:33]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:01:40]  Turning point USA.
[00:01:41]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:50]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:52]  Hey, everybody.
[00:01:53]  This episode is brought to you by my friends at ExpressVPN, expressvpn.com/slash Charlie.
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[00:02:19]  Hey, everybody.
[00:02:20]  Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:02:22]  With us today is someone I think you all know, a journalist and, of course, host of the Megan Kelly Show, Megan Kelly.
[00:02:28]  And I've been enjoying her podcast a lot.
[00:02:30]  So, everyone, go download it and subscribe.
[00:02:32]  Megan, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:02:34]  Hi, so happy to be here.
[00:02:36]  Thanks for having me.
[00:02:37]  So, I kind of want to start with some would call it an evolution from you being a political commentator to now kind of a cultural phenomenon and kind of a voice in the middle of sanity.
[00:02:48]  Talk a little bit about that because I think some of our audience is just getting reintroduced to Megan Kelly.
[00:02:53]  They saw you for years on TV, and I think this would be really helpful.
[00:02:57]  Well, it's funny because I feel like my career as more of a political commentator is in its infancy.
[00:03:04]  Because, you know, while I was out in Fox and I had been at ABC for a short stint before that, and then ultimately NBC, I was in more of a straight news journalist role.
[00:03:13]  And when I did the Kelly file, you know, primetime cable is at best a mix of journalism and some opinion.
[00:03:21]  Now, I think it's all opinion, right?
[00:03:22]  If you watch what's on cable right now in primetime, it's all opinion.
[00:03:24]  But I tried to hold the line so that I could continue doing things like presidential debates and so on.
[00:03:30]  You know, I didn't want to give up my role as a journalist there.
[00:03:32]  And now I'm kind of, I can, I don't know, more into a little bit more opinion giving than I'm used to.
[00:03:38]  And it's fun.
[00:03:39]  I like it.
[00:03:40]  You know, I can say what I want and I'm not under anybody's control, whether it's Fox or NBC, and it's liberating.
[00:03:47]  Well, and I think that's where a lot of Americans are too, where there's kind of this pressure to always kind of say things that people want you to say.
[00:03:55]  Can you talk kind of about how what you've learned in the last couple of years of kind of getting into this space of, you know, kind of some of the political orthodoxies out there of things you're not allowed to talk about?
[00:04:07]  For example, critical race theory or the trans issue.
[00:04:11]  I'm sure you get some backlash for even talking about these things.
[00:04:14]  Well, listen, I would say the one advantage to having been called all the worst names, you know, I've been called them all.
[00:04:21]  I mean, and, you know, you.
[00:04:22]  you sort of worry about that, right?
[00:04:24]  When you touch these dicey issues, whether it's the trans stuff or the race stuff.
[00:04:28]  And then to wake up one morning and see those names hurled at you on the front cover of every newspaper in the country, it's terrible to go through, but it's also quite liberating because the bad thing happened and you're fine.
[00:04:39]  You know, it's painful in the moment.
[00:04:41]  But then you look around, you're like, what's my world?
[00:04:43]  My world's my husband, my kids, my friends, my family.
[00:04:47]  I'm fine.
[00:04:48]  And now that the bad thing has happened, I feel totally free to talk about everything in exactly the way I want to because they've already fired that bullet at me and I'm still standing.
[00:04:59]  So it's, it's all, it's like the, um, it reminds me of the scene in Jerry McGuire where Kelly Preston's character looks at Tom Cruise and she's like, you can't hurt me, Jerry.
[00:05:08]  I'm too strong for you.
[00:05:09]  That's how I feel about the mainstream press.
[00:05:11]  That's me with the mainstream press.
[00:05:13]  Take your best shot.
[00:05:13]  Oh, wait, you already did and I'm fine.
[00:05:16]  You see, the only scene of that movie I hear quoted is show me the money.
[00:05:19]  And so it's very impressive that you got to watch it as a chick.
[00:05:23]  No, that's right.
[00:05:24]  You're totally right.
[00:05:26]  Which I never thought of some of the other wisdom in that movie.
[00:05:28]  I actually know the people, the family that was, that was based off of it.
[00:05:31]  That's a different story for a different time.
[00:05:33]  So talk, let's talk, let's get into some of the contentious issues.
[00:05:36]  Let's talk about the CRT battle.
[00:05:37]  You've decided to speak out about this, saying, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you've given some opinions about this, especially given your own family in New York City and kind of all the drama surrounding that.
[00:05:49]  Comment a little about where you think our country's at with this.
[00:05:51]  And do you consider kind of wokeism to be a threat to the American way of life?
[00:05:57]  Yes, I do.
[00:05:58]  I mean, I think it needs to be fought and we need all hands on deck because while their army is a lot smaller than our army, it's powerful.
[00:06:06]  And it may be small in number, but they have control of some key institutions, including the media, including academia, now sports and so on.
[00:06:15]  And so if we don't fight, they're only going to grow further and more powerful.
[00:06:20]  So now's the time.
[00:06:21]  And I get that it's scary, but I'm kind of done listening to how scary it is because this is an existential moment for our country, of our way of life.
[00:06:31]  And I just interviewed John McWhorter.
[00:06:32]  You know, he's a brilliant Columbia University professor.
[00:06:34]  He and Glenn Lowry, they speak sense when it comes to race and all this stuff that we've been listening to.
[00:06:40]  And McWhorter just said to me, and I quote, and it's in his new book, make no mistake, they are coming for your children.
[00:06:46]  That's exactly right.
[00:06:47]  Yes.
[00:06:48]  And so if you won't fight for yourself or risk your job or risk being called names for yourself, do it for your kids because CRT is incredibly racist and damaging.
[00:06:57]  And I view it as like, if we don't, we're going to create a whole next generation of racists.
[00:07:04]  If that's not worth fighting, I don't know what is.
[00:07:06]  Well, and what, but what's surprising is how few people are willing to talk about this.
[00:07:11]  You've been willing to talk about it, Barry Weiss and others, but it's almost like this dissident network of truth tellers.
[00:07:18]  And why do you think that is?
[00:07:19]  Are people afraid of kind of engaging this in conversation or they think, oh, we've been through these cultural battles before.
[00:07:25]  It's not a big deal.
[00:07:26]  Talk about the unprecedented nature of these ideas.
[00:07:28]  We haven't lived through anything like this, at least in the last couple of decades.
[00:07:32]  I think most people are, they don't have the advantage of having been called all the terrible names in the paper and all of our social media.
[00:07:39]  They're pre the names and they don't want it to happen.
[00:07:43]  And they still think that they can sort of hold on to their street cred with these people, with these magazines, what have you.
[00:07:51]  And other people's people are worried about jobs and that's real.
[00:07:54]  The name calling you got to get past because it's coming for you one way or another.
[00:07:57]  And, you know, unless you subscribe to all of the woke ideals, they're coming for you.
[00:08:02]  You can't put enough chips in the bag for them not to turn on you.
[00:08:05]  But I do think there are a few of us who just kind of don't care.
[00:08:08]  And it's some on the center left, some on the center right.
[00:08:12]  You know, I think people on the established right, for the most part, are good, sort of saying how they feel.
[00:08:17]  But there's a collection of us closer to the center that have had some love for the main from the mainstream media.
[00:08:22]  And I think those of us who have been have managed to sort of break free of those chains are important to this fight, right?
[00:08:30]  Because we're a little bit closer to the ones we need to get on our side and in our army.
[00:08:34]  Do you find yourself becoming more conservative the more you see this nonsense?
[00:08:41]  Has it changed your views at all, or has it just made you speak out against this nonsense more?
[00:08:46]  I mean, I don't know if I'm, I'm certainly more conservative than I was when I was in my young 20s for sure.
[00:08:53]  It's tough to say because I'm just not ideological.
[00:08:56]  I don't think of myself as a political person.
[00:08:58]  I'm more like the lawyer that wants the arguments on both sides.
[00:09:01]  And I know when I feel comfortable, you know, somebody's giving me enough evidence.
[00:09:03]  I'm like, all right, I'm good.
[00:09:05]  But I'm not somebody who can't listen to a liberal talk about why their ideas are better without feeling upset or anger.
[00:09:13]  You know what I mean?
[00:09:14]  Like, I still like the intellectual exercise.
[00:09:17]  It's like Frank McCourt wrote, it's like chewing rubies in your mouth when you get really smart people talking about their ideals, even if you don't agree with them.
[00:09:27]  So I guess overall, look, I would say on the ideological scale, one through 10, you know, one being like a far left liberal wokesters and 10 being, you know, far, far right.
[00:09:38]  I don't know.
[00:09:38]  I won't even say MAGA.
[00:09:39]  I'm just talking about like crazy, crazy far right.
[00:09:43]  I'd probably like a 6.5.
[00:09:46]  You know, I used to have some issues that I was more like a four on.
[00:09:50]  I don't know.
[00:09:50]  The social ground is shifting so quickly under my feet.
[00:09:53]  I don't know what the hell I am, Charlie, but I just, I'm a registered independent.
[00:09:57]  I think that sums me up.
[00:09:58]  And I'm not trying to label you.
[00:10:00]  I'm just interested in whether or not their campaign to destroy America's core ideas and ideals, right?
[00:10:07]  Is it bringing people more to the right, or is it just the way that we measure it, has it changed itself?
[00:10:12]  I'm just curious at that.
[00:10:14]  So I don't see it like that.
[00:10:14]  So the way I see it is they're sane and insane.
[00:10:17]  And this 10, 11% of wokesters are in the insane camp, and we're all against them.
[00:10:22]  And that's why I always remind my friends who are established right: don't cut our army in half.
[00:10:28]  Because, you know, I've been in New York City for the past 20 years.
[00:10:31]  All my friends are liberals.
[00:10:32]  I've got like one Republican friend of my girlfriend's.
[00:10:35]  They're with us.
[00:10:36]  They love what you're doing.
[00:10:38]  They love what I'm doing.
[00:10:39]  We don't need to exclude them from our army and fighting these insane lunatics.
[00:10:43]  We don't have to agree on taxes or abortion in order to fight that particular battle, which I agree is threatening our country.
[00:10:51]  So how do we do that then?
[00:10:52]  Because I'm probably doing the worst job of that.
[00:10:54]  How do we like not be excluding and like build kind of magnanimous relationships with Manhattanites?
[00:10:59]  I'm not, I'm not sure how to do that.
[00:11:01]  I don't think we need to demonize them.
[00:11:03]  You know, I think in order to get those folks to work with us, you know, we shouldn't be saying like every day the left does this, the left does all that, because some on the left are lunatics, but a lot are pretty cool and pretty reasonable and just whatever.

=== Stop Funding Your Enemies (03:11) ===

[00:11:15]  They don't make a lot of money.
[00:11:16]  So they like Democrats' tax policy, right?
[00:11:17]  They want to tax the rich.
[00:11:18]  I mean, I know these people.
[00:11:19]  I'm related to a lot of them.
[00:11:21]  They're not people who are working against us on the core things that we really care about.
[00:11:25]  Now, it's not somebody, you're not going to convince somebody who's pro-choice to join a pro-life army.
[00:11:31]  I get that.
[00:11:32]  But on this stuff, like getting out and protesting against CRT, against this crazy radical trans ideology, it's really damaging to children.
[00:11:39]  It's abusive to children.
[00:11:42]  Even on protesting a lot of the COVID bizarre mandates from masks to vaccines and children and so on, it's almost like you just agree to table all the other stuff.
[00:11:52]  You can fight those good fights on another day.
[00:11:54]  But right now, we have a really important fight we all need to get all hands on deck for.
[00:11:59]  And when we're fighting those battles, just don't talk about the other stuff.
[00:12:04]  It's back to school time, and you may be feeling the burden of college bills or private tuition school expenses.
[00:12:10]  With home equity at a all-time high and interest rates low, refinancing your house could be a great way to get some cash and pay out those bills.
[00:12:16]  But look, I'm going to cut it to you straight.
[00:12:18]  Stop using banks to refinance your home that hate you.
[00:12:21]  Every big bank hates you.
[00:12:22]  They hate your values.
[00:12:23]  They hate your worldview.
[00:12:24]  They want to take our guns away.
[00:12:26]  They fund Planned Parenthood.
[00:12:27]  Enough.
[00:12:27]  So let's go with the good guys.
[00:12:28]  I got two good friends.
[00:12:29]  These guys love the Lord.
[00:12:31]  They love their country.
[00:12:32]  They're really fun people.
[00:12:34]  They're down to earth.
[00:12:35]  It's Andrew Del Rey and Todd Avakian at andrewandTodd.com.
[00:12:40]  They are with Sierra Pacific Mortgage, people I know and trust with them, and you should too.
[00:12:44]  So it's super simple.
[00:12:45]  Anything you need for a home loan, anything at all, refinance, take out a loan.
[00:12:50]  Don't go to Chase.
[00:12:51]  Don't go to Wealth Fargo.
[00:12:52]  Definitely don't go to Goldman Sachs.
[00:12:54]  I don't think many people would because I don't think they have a retail operation.
[00:12:57]  Don't go to this brick and mortar nonsense of these people that are woke USA, wearing two masks, take your money and deposit it, charge you fees, and then say, oh, let's take out a loan.
[00:13:07]  By the way, the money we make is going to go fund the downfall of America.
[00:13:11]  Done with that.
[00:13:12]  Instead, just go to andrewandtodd.com.
[00:13:14]  Again, these are two patriots who love the Lord and they love their country.
[00:13:18]  Take 30 seconds to answer a couple questions.
[00:13:20]  That gives them the info they need and gives you value information often on the first call.
[00:13:25]  Andrew and Todd, they are not brokers.
[00:13:27]  They are bankers, which means they can handle your loan from start to finish.
[00:13:31]  So you always have someone in your corner.
[00:13:32]  Again, they're honest.
[00:13:34]  They are great people.
[00:13:36]  I've got to know them so well.
[00:13:37]  So take that first step towards getting the cash you need today.
[00:13:40]  Stop taking out loans from banks that hate you.
[00:13:44]  Go to andrewandtodd.com.
[00:13:46]  AndrewandTodd.com.
[00:13:47]  Call 888-888-1172.
[00:13:49]  That's 888-888-1172.
[00:13:52]  Go to andrewandtodd.com.
[00:13:54]  I'm about to use them for something at andrewandtodd.com.
[00:13:57]  They've been so easy to work with.
[00:14:00]  And you know what gives me some peace at night?
[00:14:02]  I know that when I use them, they love the Lord and they love the flag and they love the country.
[00:14:08]  It really makes me feel good about it.
[00:14:10]  AndrewandTodd.com.
[00:14:12]  Start supporting the good guys and stop taking out loans of people that hate you and hate your values.
[00:14:20]  And that's the essence of building a coalition, which I think is so sorely needed right now.

=== Parents React to Outrage (08:25) ===

[00:14:26]  Yeah, I'm not sure how I see it, which is kind of how, and you would know because you live there, what percentage of the people in Manhattan or New York actually support this stuff.
[00:14:36]  And maybe it's a very vocal minority, or maybe people are just voting passively for stuff they don't quite agree with.
[00:14:43]  But let's just focus on the trans issue.
[00:14:45]  You know, what you just said out loud is, you know, when I say that I get picketed and protested or whatever, you know, most people aren't even allowed to say that, you know, giving puety blockers to seven-year-olds is a bad thing, which it obviously is.
[00:15:00]  I'm just curious, just kind of in what you see, do you really believe that there is a majority of people that stand against it?
[00:15:06]  Because we're not always seeing that reflected in public policy.
[00:15:09]  Is it just people are afraid to take it on?
[00:15:12]  I do believe.
[00:15:12]  I do believe that the majority is against it.
[00:15:14]  Absolutely.
[00:15:16]  And I think New York is tough to, it's tough to use as the benchmark.
[00:15:19]  It went 87% for Biden.
[00:15:21]  I mean, it is a far left city.
[00:15:24]  And I do think it's woke.
[00:15:26]  I do think there's a fair amount of people who aren't, right?
[00:15:29]  I mean, I know all my liberal friends aren't, but having just left the schools and understood who was on the school boards and driving policy, they weren't just left.
[00:15:37]  They were woke and thus had to be left.
[00:15:40]  But like I just visited my good girlfriends in the Midwest, Chicago and Detroit.
[00:15:45]  They're from.
[00:15:47]  100% not woke.
[00:15:49]  And my one gal is, she's 100% liberal, progressive.
[00:15:53]  You know, there's not a Democrat she hasn't voted for.
[00:15:55]  She hates Trump.
[00:15:57]  Not woke in the least, right?
[00:16:00]  So it's like they're out there, but they would never take the helm on an issue this divisive because they recognize where the media is and that there's no benefit for them to speak up publicly.
[00:16:12]  Well, I think that's one of the advantages of the school board movement is that it's one thing to see a cable news segment about, you know, wokeism and what it means or Christopher Rufo's take on wokeism.
[00:16:26]  Like, okay, yeah, I don't agree with that.
[00:16:28]  And then all of a sudden your five-year-old comes home and you're like, oh, yeah, by the way, the white kids go to this classroom and the black kids go to this classroom.
[00:16:35]  And the Bernie Sanders, you know, bumper sticker Prius driving, you know, liberal mom is like, wait a second, what?
[00:16:43]  Like that, and it's kind of all of a sudden, there's this, there's this confusion that sets in.
[00:16:50]  Can you talk about the educational piece?
[00:16:52]  Because I think that's actually what is moving people more than anything else, especially in that kind of demographic you describe.
[00:16:58]  I think you're exactly right.
[00:17:00]  And I think it's why we had the National School Board Association or National Association of School Boards write that letter and that we now know, thanks to parents defending education, a great group that's fighting against this nonsense, they subpoenaed or they FOIA'd the board members on the NASB because their stuff's not protected and it's publicly accessible.
[00:17:21]  Anyway, they got it.
[00:17:22]  And now we know they coordinated with the White House before they wrote that letter, before, right?
[00:17:26]  So the fix was in.
[00:17:28]  And then they wrote the letter and within a couple of days, Merrick Garland was like, yes, we got you.
[00:17:33]  FBI, we're going to sick them on parents.
[00:17:34]  Was that all because they felt altruistic and really thought this was wrong?
[00:17:38]  No, what nonsense.
[00:17:40]  They recognized how effective these parents are and how damaging these images are.
[00:17:46]  And the messaging, I mean, the parents who will not be silenced, who won't let go of the mics because they want America to hear what's happening.
[00:17:56]  God bless those parents.
[00:17:58]  In the same way you and I probably sat in our separate locations saying, right on.
[00:18:03]  They sat in their separate locations saying, oh my God, we've got to silence them.
[00:18:08]  Like we've got to do something about this.
[00:18:09]  This is, we're going to lose this fight.
[00:18:11]  That's why the White House wanted this to happen.
[00:18:14]  And when I, like, I experienced everything, I feel like almost the canary in the coal mine in this having come from New York City private schools, which are about as woke as they come.
[00:18:23]  I mean, truly, I've seen all the national stories.
[00:18:25]  I don't think there's a group more woke than the New York City private schools.
[00:18:30]  And I left because my husband and I did a year plus investigation, like, can we change it?
[00:18:35]  You know, like, do, can it, can we fight the battle and win it?
[00:18:39]  And really came to the conclusion that in New York, the answer was no.
[00:18:41]  Talked to people who are billionaires who had donated tens of millions to some of these schools whose views were completely dismissed.
[00:18:48]  No one cared.
[00:18:49]  You know, they were like, if you're not woke, piss off.
[00:18:52]  Don't care about your tens of millions.
[00:18:53]  You can take your library back.
[00:18:55]  So it didn't seem like the tide was going our way.
[00:18:58]  But the reason I spoke out about it after leaving is because I wanted to throw a lifeline to the parents who are still stuck there, unable to say anything because the tide is against them.
[00:19:06]  And they're all worried about little junior getting into Harvard or whatever.
[00:19:09]  And the instinct is to not be a squeaky wheel.
[00:19:12]  But I'll tell you, Charlie, you just to short form my one story.
[00:19:16]  At our school, the messaging that being circulated was literally, literally, they're quoting this so-called scholar saying, in every classroom where a white children, where a white child learns, there is a future killer cop.
[00:19:30]  I mean, that was the messaging that we need studies on white mothers and why they are indoctrinating their children in black death.
[00:19:39]  Okay.
[00:19:40]  I'm like, what?
[00:19:42]  I could go on the transgender education program that was forced on my third grade boy, who was only eight at the time, which we found out about at a parent-teacher meeting when one of our fellow parents, a dad, raised his hand and said, Why did my son come home and ask if it's true that he was taught in, he was taught in school and he wanted to know if it was true that he could take a pill to prevent puberty.
[00:20:03]  And then at age 18, he could have a surgery to cut off his penis and then he would be a woman.
[00:20:08]  We, I mean, we were all like, what?
[00:20:11]  Sure enough, it happened.
[00:20:13]  They didn't even try to deny it.
[00:20:15]  And their defense was, we take the discussion where the boys wanted to, oh, no, you know, you don't.
[00:20:20]  You do not.
[00:20:21]  If my kid comes in and says, mom's expecting another baby, not sure we want one.
[00:20:25]  What are our options?
[00:20:26]  Are you going to answer?
[00:20:27]  No, you are not.
[00:20:29]  Some things are not appropriate between a teacher and a student.
[00:20:32]  Never mind students as young as eight.
[00:20:34]  And I'm seeing all of this spread across America to the Midwest, to Iowa, you name it.
[00:20:41]  Yes.
[00:20:41]  And it's real.
[00:20:43]  Well, and, you know, Megan, I'm sensing from you, which I sense from others, like this righteous indignation, which is like, yeah, you're not going to do this to my kid.
[00:20:51]  And we'll pull out, we'll declare war on the school.
[00:20:54]  But can you talk about that?
[00:20:55]  Because so many of our listeners feel trapped.
[00:20:57]  They feel trapped in Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles.
[00:21:00]  What was the moment?
[00:21:01]  And can you just get more detailed into like what was the calculation of we're going to pull out or we're going to stay?
[00:21:08]  Because people are struggling and wrestling with that all the time.
[00:21:12]  I mean, I think once we realized we couldn't win, you know, the Sun Tzu art of war, right?
[00:21:17]  If outmatched, don't fight.
[00:21:19]  We didn't want to spin our wheels because every day was another day of abuse.
[00:21:24]  I mean, this is not victimless.
[00:21:28]  And day by day, while you can counter program as we had been with our kids, you can't let the messaging go on and the abuse go on day by day by day and not expect it to have some effect.
[00:21:40]  And, you know, we looked at our son, now he's 12.
[00:21:43]  At the time we pulled him, I guess he was 10.
[00:21:46]  His two best friends, one is brown, one is black, right?
[00:21:49]  It was an Indian kid and a black kid.
[00:21:50]  And we talked to their parents.
[00:21:52]  They were as outraged about it as we were.
[00:21:54]  They were taking three beautiful boys in the midst of a great friendship and driving wedges between them that didn't exist.
[00:21:59]  And you want to know how you really fight racism?
[00:22:01]  You expose your kids to all sorts of kids of different races and backgrounds.
[00:22:05]  And they just grow up understanding that difference is fine.
[00:22:08]  It doesn't need to be divisive.
[00:22:11]  And they don't even think about it.
[00:22:13]  You know, that beautiful sort of innocence they have as kids stays with them.
[00:22:16]  Nope, they were going exactly the opposite way.
[00:22:19]  So, I mean, when I saw that letter being circulated at the school that they wanted to be mandatory reading for the faculty about in every classroom where white children learn, I sent it to the superintendent of the school, the head of school, and said, the answer to racism is not more racism.
[00:22:36]  And he didn't care.
[00:22:38]  He wasn't bothered by it at all.
[00:22:40]  And that's when I knew we're out.
[00:22:41]  And Ibram X. Kendi has said that.
[00:22:43]  He said that the answer to segregation from yesterday is segregation today.
[00:22:48]  He has said that explicitly.

=== The Second Vote Controversy (08:08) ===

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[00:22:59]  Did you know that Airbnb gave $500,000 to the Marxist Black Lives Matter organization?
[00:23:05]  Your first vote is at the ballot box, but that isn't enough to defend our traditional Judeo-Christian values.
[00:23:11]  Left-wing corporations are subverting our democracy by taking money from conservative customers and giving it to radical organizations that support abortion, gun control, and critical race theory.
[00:23:22]  You have another vote, a second vote at the checkout line.
[00:23:25]  And that is where massively important organizations called Second Vote come in.
[00:23:30]  The courageous people at Second Vote are exposing corporations for how they spend your money.
[00:23:34]  Check out secondvote.com today.
[00:23:37]  Second Vote is developing incredible tools and engaging the smartest minds in the country to help inform Americans' purchasing decisions.
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[00:23:46]  Well, their work is arduous, complex, and exhaustive.
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[00:23:51]  Please support their work so we can defend our future from the woke Marxist mob.
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[00:24:01]  But if you use promo code Charlie, you get 50% off.
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[00:24:24]  So I need to ask you: what is your opinion now with the country in the condition that it's in?
[00:24:31]  I would say it's falling apart of Donald Trump and kind of his presidency and what he did.
[00:24:38]  Just the floor is yours.
[00:24:39]  What's your take on him and what he did?
[00:24:42]  You know, it's funny, Charlie, because the day before the election, was it the day before or the day of, I did a long podcast about Trump versus Biden and what the considerations were going in.
[00:24:53]  And obviously, I understand why, you know, Trump is criticizable, right?
[00:24:57]  I understand his weaknesses.
[00:24:58]  He's definitely a thin-skinned guy who picks petty fights and says stuff that, you know, you probably shouldn't say in polite company and all that.
[00:25:05]  And Biden, you know, for the most part, you know, he knows how to behave in front of the cameras.
[00:25:10]  I mean, he's drooling half the time, but he doesn't say the stuff that Trump said, right?
[00:25:14]  Probably cannot anymore.
[00:25:16]  He probably cannot form a sentence.
[00:25:19]  But what he's done has been so incredibly divisive, and the media won't cover it, right?
[00:25:23]  They have you believe that Donald Trump is the devil incarnate.
[00:25:26]  And they don't, they give Biden a complete pass on the most divisive policies like taking away due process from young men who get accused on college campuses.
[00:25:36]  He wants to go back to his old boss, Barack Obama's rules of you don't get a lawyer, you don't get the right to discovery, you don't get the right to cross-examine your accuser.
[00:25:43]  You get tried in a kangaroo court that's your so-called jury is full of victims' rights advocates.
[00:25:48]  The fix is in, and when you get kicked out of school and labeled a sex offender, there's virtually no right of appeal.
[00:25:53]  He's the racist remarks that Biden has made over and over and over, complete pass, not to mention his son, who's used the N-word repeatedly, we now know.
[00:26:02]  Whereas Donald Trump Jr., my God, if he ever had that.
[00:26:07]  The stuff that Biden has done with respect to trying to award in the school system, writings based on Kendi and D'Angelo and the 1619 project.
[00:26:15]  Are you kidding me?
[00:26:16]  Right?
[00:26:17]  I mean, I could go on that helping only the black farmers and not the white farmers, even though the socioeconomic disparity between the two of them might favor the black farmer.
[00:26:26]  Doesn't matter.
[00:26:26]  It's all about skin color, right?
[00:26:28]  The vaccine mandates now after saying he would never do it and now forcing it.
[00:26:33]  And by the way, over the objection of many in the black community for whom he claims to care so much, right?
[00:26:40]  Allowing this CRT to make its way into our school agendas, dividing kids by the skin color over which they have no control.
[00:26:46]  It's insanely divisive.
[00:26:49]  And that's why the day he was, he won and went out there and said, it's all about unity now.
[00:26:56]  I mocked it.
[00:26:57]  I mocked it openly on social media.
[00:26:59]  And, you know, everybody was like, she's defending Trump.
[00:27:02]  And he's like, you know what?
[00:27:02]  He doesn't want unity.
[00:27:03]  He just wants submission.
[00:27:05]  He wants you to unify behind his agenda, which is incredibly divisive.
[00:27:10]  Why would anybody do that?
[00:27:11]  Because we are talking about the destruction of fundamental principles that we've agreed to live by for many, many years-from due process to free speech to equal protection, all of which he wants to throw out the window.
[00:27:24]  Yes.
[00:27:24]  So I don't, you know, I get that Donald Trump says not nice things.
[00:27:29]  And, you know, people understandably think he's thin-skinned.
[00:27:32]  That's okay.
[00:27:34]  Everybody has flaws.
[00:27:36]  I could make the case all day long that this president is far more divisive than the last.
[00:27:40]  Yeah, and destructive.
[00:27:42]  So, I want to pick up on one of those things you mentioned, which is one of the fruits of the Enlightenment, which is equal protection and the presumption of innocence.
[00:27:50]  You know, kind of talk about Me Too, where I'm not saying you were part of that movement, but there was definitely some would characterize, you know, part of kind of what you went through and how it was kind of cataloged.
[00:28:02]  Where did Me Too go wrong?
[00:28:04]  Do you think it's gone too far?
[00:28:06]  Because now it's being put into policy where people are losing their potential legal protections on college campuses.
[00:28:12]  And this doesn't get as much coverage now, but this is an element of the kind of woke world, which is if you're a man, you're bad, and you don't get any sort of rights.
[00:28:22]  Please talk about that.
[00:28:24]  It's deeply problematic.
[00:28:26]  You know, if you watch that movie Bombshell, which tried to capture Ailes's, I did watch the movie.
[00:28:32]  Yeah.
[00:28:32]  Oh, you did?
[00:28:33]  Okay.
[00:28:33]  So you'll see that the woman playing me kept saying, I'm not a feminist, right?
[00:28:38]  But I sort of pulled myself, pulled, I was pulled into this sort of Me Too moment.
[00:28:43]  And I, and that's true.
[00:28:44]  And the reason I've never called myself a feminist is because I do think feminism is associated with hatred of men.
[00:28:51]  It's also, it connotes a certain position on various social platforms that I may or may not have.
[00:28:56]  I haven't, I don't talk about those issues as a journalist, but I'm certainly not signing on to those publicly.
[00:29:01]  And I just find it very, very divisive.
[00:29:05]  You know, as the mother of two young boys and the mother of a young girl, I don't feel the need to prioritize one over the other.
[00:29:12]  I don't think my daughter's empowerment should come at the expense of my sons.
[00:29:16]  And so I did have conflicting feelings about sort of being held up as this, I don't know, folks model for the Me Too movement.
[00:29:25]  I don't know what you'd say.
[00:29:26]  It was something I was dragged into, I don't know, sort of not against my will, but just not exactly of my own choosing.
[00:29:34]  But when faced with a question of what Roger Ailes was, you know, and whether I was going to tell my story or not, there was no question in my mind what the right thing to do was.
[00:29:44]  The Me Too movement, I want to start with this.
[00:29:48]  It has done a lot of good.
[00:29:50]  And I know that because, given my role, I get letters from young women all the time, like thanking me they were in an abusive situation and now they've gotten out of it, right?
[00:29:59]  So it's one of those things where you can't just bash it all together.
[00:30:04]  So, and I, those things bring tears to my eyes when I find out how women have gotten out of abusive situations with bad bosses and so on.
[00:30:11]  However, it's been weaponized.
[00:30:14]  It's lost credibility, all credibility.
[00:30:16]  I mean, virtually all.
[00:30:18]  Thanks to things like Kavanaugh.
[00:30:21]  That was really the watershed moment in the Me Too movement that killed it.
[00:30:24]  It was totally weaponized against him.
[00:30:26]  None of those claims held water.
[00:30:29]  The whole thing got driven by an insane lunatic lawyer, Michael Avenatti, who started alleging gang rape with absolutely no support.
[00:30:36]  By the way, NBC was fine going to air with those allegations, but held on for months, not reporting on Harvey Weinstein because they allegedly didn't have the story.
[00:30:44]  Oh, okay.
[00:30:45]  All right.
[00:30:46]  And I think now, especially when there's a politician involved or somebody who's political in any way, the movement has zero credibility.
[00:30:53]  Look at Time's Up.
[00:30:54]  Look at Time's Up.
[00:30:54]  The entire board had to resign because that organization cared more about access to power than actually protecting any women.

=== Me Too Movement Lost Credibility (02:10) ===

[00:31:00]  So I think to the extent it's given young women the idea that they don't have to take it, that no is an available option to them when their boss tries to paw them or condition advancement on sexual favors.
[00:31:12]  It did good.
[00:31:13]  It did some good.
[00:31:15]  But that's in no way an endorsement of the whole thing because it's gone too far and it's become weaponized to take out, you know, either political people or people who are just unpopular, who you might not like, right?
[00:31:25]  Like some, maybe some guy who did nothing.
[00:31:27]  But there are some women who are opportunists and misuse it.
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[00:32:07]  The American Institute of Non-Destructive Testing provides 93% job placement, and graduates enjoy a starting wage of about $50,000 a year.
[00:32:17]  You can earn $60,000, $70,000 or even $80,000 yearly within a couple years as a technician.
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[00:32:51]  Check it out, everybody.
[00:32:52]  Trainingndt.com.
[00:32:54]  Check it out.
[00:32:55]  It's a wonderful program, trainingndt.com.
[00:33:01]  So we have a lot of young women that listen to this podcast.
[00:33:04]  Can you speak to how that balance needs to be articulated and how we have to strike that balance?

=== Journalism Instincts Over Loyalty (08:41) ===

[00:33:10]  Because sometimes I'm afraid that women have an expectation that if they go into workplace, it's there and they must find it.
[00:33:18]  They must root it out and become an activist before ever experiencing anything.
[00:33:23]  And so can you talk about in your own personal experience and how you say you obviously don't want it to become an anti-man movement, which it has, unfortunately, but also that it's a legitimate thing and some men are awful pigs like Harvey Weinstein and that people have a right to speak out.
[00:33:38]  How do we strike that balance without tearing down our entire society?
[00:33:42]  I wish we could do that.
[00:33:44]  I think women need to remember, you know, in general, lighten up is a good piece of advice for life.
[00:33:50]  Just lighten up.
[00:33:52]  People are complicated.
[00:33:53]  Men are complicated.
[00:33:55]  Men and women and their relationship is complicated, especially in the workplace setting.
[00:33:59]  And men don't stop being men just because they find themselves in the office.
[00:34:02]  You know, they've been chasing us for thousands of years and we like it.
[00:34:06]  We like it.
[00:34:07]  Now, that doesn't mean you should ignore power dynamics, especially as a guy in the office setting, right?
[00:34:15]  If the man is in the position of power or the woman, but who's ever in the position of power, it's very fraught with peril to chase somebody who's beneath you.
[00:34:21]  That's the Matt Lauer situation, right?
[00:34:23]  Where women said yes, even though they didn't want to say yes, they were afraid of him.
[00:34:27]  Not all of them.
[00:34:28]  I'm just saying I know some.
[00:34:29]  They're afraid of him.
[00:34:30]  And as the guy, you just never know, you know, you just never know.
[00:34:33]  And that's just not a smart move.
[00:34:36]  But I think, let me take you back to one of the reasons I got into journalism.
[00:34:39]  A woman named Ricky Kleeman was a badass prosecutor in Boston for many, many years.
[00:34:44]  She's married now to Bill Bratton, the guy who cleaned up New York under Giuliani.
[00:34:47]  Then he went out and was chief police in LA and so on.
[00:34:50]  And she, before she met Bill Bratton, was his kick-ass prosecutor.
[00:34:55]  She went to court one day in Boston.
[00:34:57]  She wrote about this in her book.
[00:34:59]  And the judge was like, oh, Ms. Kleeman, you're late to court.
[00:35:02]  Oh, I'm so sorry, Your Honor.
[00:35:04]  He's like, you know how you can make it up to me?
[00:35:06]  She's in front of a whole courtroom.
[00:35:08]  Why don't you do a pirouette in front of this bench?
[00:35:12]  Now, she writes about how she thought to herself, okay, I could stick it to this guy right now, like totally inappropriate judge.
[00:35:18]  Who do you think you're talking to?
[00:35:21]  Or I could play ball.
[00:35:23]  And you know what she did?
[00:35:24]  She went up on one toe.
[00:35:27]  She put her arms out.
[00:35:28]  She spun around as beautifully and perfectly as she could.
[00:35:32]  And she took a deep bow with a big smile and completely won that judge over.
[00:35:39]  I can make all the arguments about how it was a sexist moment and blah, blah, blah.
[00:35:43]  You know what?
[00:35:43]  She did the right thing.
[00:35:44]  Women should realize not everything has to become a federal case.
[00:35:49]  Some people say dumbass things.
[00:35:50]  They're sexist.
[00:35:51]  Sometimes they're racist.
[00:35:53]  Whatever.
[00:35:54]  People are complicated and no one has it all figured out and people will misstep.
[00:35:59]  And I don't want to live in a world where nobody missteps.
[00:36:02]  So laugh at them, laugh at yourself, laugh at this crazy life.
[00:36:07]  Don't take anything or anyone too seriously, least of all yourself.
[00:36:11]  But when you realize you are in actual trouble, you know, when you, that's sort of how it went with me and ails.
[00:36:16]  You know, he made baudy remarks.
[00:36:19]  He was like, he crossed lines.
[00:36:20]  You're talking about my bras and my breasts.
[00:36:22]  And I'm like, okay, this is not good.
[00:36:24]  But I laughed and laughed and laughed it off.
[00:36:26]  But then when he grabbed me and tried to shove his tongue down my throat three times in the office setting, and then when I wouldn't do it, asked me when my contract was up.
[00:36:32]  I knew we'd crossed a new line.
[00:36:34]  Even then, I didn't file a lawsuit, but I hired a lawyer.
[00:36:38]  I made a record of it.
[00:36:39]  I told the supervisor.
[00:36:40]  I started reaching out to other women, right?
[00:36:42]  So it's like, you got to go by instinct.
[00:36:44]  And I do think grace, forgiveness, understanding humanity is a big part of the process before you get to red line.
[00:36:53]  Let's go.
[00:36:55]  And what you're talking about is nuance, which is definitely missing in our country and in our society where there's just an overgeneralization to try to indict people just because you think they might kind of fit a certain archetype.
[00:37:07]  Talk a little bit about in our closing here about your podcast, what you're trying to do with it, some of the guests you've been having on.
[00:37:14]  I kind of like how you're not allowing people to pinpoint you.
[00:37:16]  You're saying some things that people would deem very conservative and then some things that people would deem liberal.
[00:37:21]  I think these labels all are kind of meaningless.
[00:37:23]  Like, are you sane or insane?
[00:37:24]  I think is a perfect framing.
[00:37:25]  But talk about what you're working on now: the podcast, the guests you're having on, the work you're trying to get them.
[00:37:32]  I mean, I would say it's sort of, you know, Megan Kelly, nobody's sycophant.
[00:37:37]  You know, I'm really not tribal in my approach to the news, and I never have been.
[00:37:43]  I think that's why I did well on Fox, because people knew they could come to me for the straight skinny, but that they weren't going to be getting, you know, a liberal in conservatives clothing, right?
[00:37:54]  Like that was never me either.
[00:37:56]  And that's kind of what I'm trying to do here.
[00:37:58]  Just be honest about the news, no matter what it is.
[00:38:01]  I don't have blind loyalty to either party.
[00:38:04]  If somebody behaves like an ass, I'm fine calling them out on it.
[00:38:07]  I tend to not get personal in my attacks.
[00:38:11]  Though if somebody really earns it, they'll get it.
[00:38:14]  Hi, Don Lemon.
[00:38:15]  Hi, looking at you.
[00:38:18]  And I just think it's sort of maybe it's me unleashed, right?
[00:38:21]  At Fox, you kind of understood there was only so far you could go if it was a Republican in trouble.
[00:38:26]  And at NBC, it was, of course, you know, originally I thought I wasn't going to be doing politics there, but the amount of editorial control they tried to exercise over everything was just insufferable and always in one direction.
[00:38:37]  And so now I'm just free.
[00:38:39]  And I think people understand I'm more fair and balanced at heart than your average journalist.
[00:38:43]  We've been having on everybody.
[00:38:44]  I mean, like Glenn and John McWhorter are two great examples, Glenn Lowry and John McWhorter.
[00:38:49]  But we also had on Ryan Holiday, this guy on, he's a stoic.
[00:38:51]  He's on, he talks about stoicism.
[00:38:53]  I had on The Wolf of Wall Street the other day, Jordan Belfort, fascinating X-rated discussion about his life, really interesting stuff.
[00:39:00]  Last year, I had on a cast of Willy Wonka, my favorite movie.
[00:39:03]  I mean, he's like, it's so random, right?
[00:39:05]  But, you know, everybody from true MAGA country, we put on Julie Kelly to talk about what's being done to those January 6th protesters and how messed up that is, to more, you know, liberal people like we had on James Carvel, right?
[00:39:19]  Like across the spectrum, I will say, I don't interview the woke.
[00:39:23]  I'm more in the John McWhorter camp of it's not worth your time.
[00:39:27]  So they don't really have an invitation to come on and it wouldn't go anyway because I don't, I don't like what they're doing.
[00:39:33]  That's super interesting.
[00:39:34]  Is it time just to like say, it's not even worth our time?
[00:39:37]  Like, we're not even going to engage that.
[00:39:39]  Because that's a tell me why.
[00:39:41]  Cause that's pastime.
[00:39:43]  It's a waste of your time.
[00:39:44]  They're not convertible.
[00:39:46]  They're not honest brokers.
[00:39:48]  They're not proceeding in good faith in this discussion.
[00:39:50]  And it's just not winnable.
[00:39:52]  So we have to more forge on without them.
[00:39:54]  They're no good to us.
[00:39:54]  Let's forge on without them.
[00:39:55]  Let's show up our own army.
[00:39:57]  Let's encourage our own people to speak up.
[00:39:59]  And that's the rest of the 90% of the country, right?
[00:40:01]  To speak up, to find their courage, to understand, God forbid you get fired.
[00:40:04]  There's going to be a safe landing spot.
[00:40:06]  You're going to wind up in a better place than you probably began.
[00:40:09]  And if you really know that that's not possible for you, then try to support those who can.
[00:40:14]  And above all, don't join the outrage mob.
[00:40:17]  You might not feel comfortable speaking out against them against them, but don't join them for the love of God.
[00:40:22]  Do not like their tweets on Twitter.
[00:40:24]  Do not signal support for them in any way.
[00:40:27]  They are evil and they must be destroyed.
[00:40:30]  Well, I completely agree with that.
[00:40:32]  Everybody, subscribe to Megan Kelly's show.
[00:40:34]  Super interesting to actually have someone who doesn't wear a partisan jersey say things that are true.
[00:40:40]  I want to make sure that everyone knows that you have a serious XM show, airs on Triumph from 12 to 2, Monday through Friday.
[00:40:47]  I think I'm getting this right.
[00:40:48]  And your podcast, make sure you subscribe.
[00:40:51]  Megan, we have to have you back on.
[00:40:52]  I have so many more questions, but I just want to just encourage you, please keep on speaking out.
[00:40:57]  There are so many people in the political middle that will listen to you a lot more than me.
[00:41:01]  Trust me.
[00:41:02]  And that is something that's important and it's necessary if we want to keep our country.
[00:41:06]  Well, thank you for saying that.
[00:41:08]  And I have to say, I'm a big fan of yours and I listen to you a lot because I love intake from smart people, whether I agree or not.
[00:41:15]  And I agree in a lot of it.
[00:41:17]  I learned from you.
[00:41:18]  I mean, I thought one of your arguments on the life issue was probably the best I'd heard anybody make the case.
[00:41:24]  It was really impressive.
[00:41:25]  So thanks for having me on.
[00:41:26]  And I'd love to have you back on my show one of these days.
[00:41:29]  Come on over to my neighborhood.
[00:41:30]  Thank you, Megan.
[00:41:31]  I appreciate it.
[00:41:31]  Talk to you soon.
[00:41:32]  Thanks so much.
[00:41:35]  Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
[00:41:37]  Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:41:39]  And if you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, you can do so at tpusa.com.
[00:41:43]  God bless you guys.
[00:41:44]  Speak to you soon.
[00:41:47]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.