The Charlie Kirk Show - How Democrats Rigged a Presidential Election with Mollie Hemingway
Aired: 2021-10-15
Duration: 42:58


=== Uncovering the 2020 Election Rigged (03:41) ===

[00:00:00]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:00]  Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, Molly Hemingway from theFederalist.com, off of the book Rigged.
[00:00:05]  It's a phenomenal book.
[00:00:07]  Everyone should check out this book.
[00:00:10]  It explains the 2020 election better than anything I've seen published.
[00:00:14]  She talks about some themes that we've talked about in great detail on this program, including Zuckerberg's money, consent decrees, what happened in Georgia.
[00:00:23]  She's very informative and smart and fair, and she loves her country.
[00:00:29]  And so I think you're going to really enjoy this podcast.
[00:00:31]  It's one of my favorites we've done in quite some time, especially if you are trying to get to the bottom of what happened in the 2020 election.
[00:00:38]  This episode is for you.
[00:00:40]  Email us your thoughts, everybody, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:43]  Freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:45]  I love hearing from you.
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[00:00:48]  I don't respond to them all, but I read every single email.
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[00:01:17]  Francis from Monroe, Georgia.
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[00:01:20]  Michael from Bartlett, Illinois.
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[00:01:53]  So thank you for that.
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[00:02:25]  Check it out today.
[00:02:27]  Very important episode of Molly Hemingway, the great, the legendary, the strong, the creators, the brave, and the wise.
[00:02:32]  Buckle up.
[00:02:33]  Here we go.
[00:02:34]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:02:36]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
[00:02:38]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:02:41]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:02:44]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:02:46]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:02:46]  His spirit, his love of this country.
[00:02:48]  He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:02:54]  Turning point USA.
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[00:03:04]  That's why we are here.
[00:03:07]  Hey, everybody.
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=== The Coordinated Riots Strategy (09:00) ===

[00:03:41]  And you can't say that about many people.
[00:03:43]  Molly Hemingway, author of Rigged, How the Media, Big Tech, and Democrats have seized our elections.
[00:03:51]  And it's out right now.
[00:03:53]  Is that right, Molly?
[00:03:54]  Yeah, just came out and it's doing great.
[00:03:57]  Good.
[00:03:57]  Well, everyone, go buy a copy.
[00:03:59]  It is a number one bestseller in media, internet, and in politics.
[00:04:02]  A lot I want to get into, but Molly, you are now bucking the consensus.
[00:04:06]  You're not allowed to say the election was rigged because you're a threat to democracy.
[00:04:11]  How dare you?
[00:04:12]  That's actually partly why I wrote the book.
[00:04:15]  I was very frustrated by the idiotic way that people were talking about the election.
[00:04:20]  You weren't allowed to ask any questions.
[00:04:22]  And even before the election, I had felt that the media and tech environments were so corrupted and so brazen in their limiting of information that they were meddling with our election.
[00:04:35]  And that's actually something that international observers will say that an election can't be deemed to be free or fair if you're in a propaganda or censorship environment.
[00:04:45]  And that's what we're in.
[00:04:46]  I mean, we have big tech controlling so much of what we're allowed to talk about, what we're allowed to share, what we're allowed to think.
[00:04:52]  And I thought that was a really important part of the story.
[00:04:56]  That's where I was mostly interested.
[00:04:58]  But then, of course, people were also talking about all these changes to election law and how those changes had degraded the integrity of the election.
[00:05:07]  And the fact that nobody else wanted to look into that, I thought, well, I have to research this.
[00:05:12]  I have to report this.
[00:05:13]  And I was frankly shocked and stunned by what I found.
[00:05:16]  And so I'm really glad that I did write the book.
[00:05:18]  So walk us through just some of that.
[00:05:19]  Tea, some of it, not all of it, because we want people to go buy the book and find it themselves, but kind of walk through some of the things that you found in researching this, because this is one of the most under-researched topics in the history of news.
[00:05:30]  You have the entire news media just not just uninterested, but they're invested in making sure you don't talk about it.
[00:05:37]  Exactly right.
[00:05:38]  So one of the things that I think is very interesting is that the same Democratic operative who ran the Russia lie, that was the lie that Donald Trump stole the 2016 election by colluding with Russia.
[00:05:52]  His name is Mark Elias.
[00:05:54]  He was at Perkins Cooey, which is this big Democratic firm.
[00:05:57]  He recently left to start his own firm and make more money and have more power and control.
[00:06:04]  And he was the one that funneled the secretive Russia lie.
[00:06:07]  That was where Hillary Clinton paid for opposition research.
[00:06:10]  It was just inventions, lies, that Donald Trump was planning to steal the 2016 election and that he did steal the 2016 election.
[00:06:18]  They actually have kept it going this entire time.
[00:06:20]  His name is Mark Elias.
[00:06:21]  He's also the guy who ran the Democratic operation to change all voting laws leading up to the 2020 election.
[00:06:29]  And that meant different things in different states.
[00:06:30]  So that could be about watering down the integrity of mail-in balloting.
[00:06:35]  That could be expanding the period of time in which you vote so that you're not really sure how many people voted or when they have to get their ballots in by.
[00:06:43]  And he has this array of different groups that he works with, whether they're Democratic operatives or nonprofit, nonpartisan groups that are actually just kind of arms of the Democratic Party and he would have them file lawsuits.
[00:06:56]  And so it was just this like wide-ranging operation to weaken the integrity of the election system.
[00:07:02]  And because of COVID, you know, this is something that he'd been wanting to do for decades, but because of COVID, suddenly all these judges or other people were more amenable to it.
[00:07:12]  And what's important to also keep in mind about this part of it is that sometimes these changes were done legally and sometimes they were not done legally.
[00:07:19]  So you're supposed to make all changes like this go through the state legislature according to the Constitution and according to many state constitutions, but frequently they were done through other means.
[00:07:28]  Like you would sue a friendly Secretary of State and then that Secretary of State would settle and agree to whatever your demands were.
[00:07:36]  And you could just like with the with the signature of a pen, change election laws in the middle of the game in a way that was not designed to bolster confidence in the result.
[00:07:48]  He was the architect behind a lot of this.
[00:07:50]  And so I guess one question I have for you is how much of this was colluded and how much of was this just everyone hated Trump, like big tech in their corner, financiers in another corner.
[00:08:01]  Was there kind of, and there actually is an article from Time magazine shows there was a central planning apparatus, but did you find in your reporting there was kind of a mission control?
[00:08:10]  Was there a war room that was orchestrating this?
[00:08:13]  Yeah, that was actually just like you mentioned, already revealed in a Time magazine article that was written by Molly Ball, who's a reporter who has very good ties with Democrats.
[00:08:23]  She wrote the fawning biography of Nancy Pelosi, and she's sort of rewarded with inside information from Democrats who know that she will put it out there in the nicest, kindest way.
[00:08:34]  And so she already wrote that this was a highly coordinated operation at the highest levels, but it was basically the establishment all got together and it was all hands on deck.
[00:08:43]  We have to do whatever it takes to prevent Donald Trump from getting reelected.
[00:08:48]  And what's interesting about this is they did do whatever it took.
[00:08:51]  And it still came down to like 43,000 votes in three states that it would have, that would have changed it and made it a tie in the Electoral College.
[00:08:59]  It was so close that they came to failing.
[00:09:01]  And that was by doing everything from controlling when and where riots occurred to controlling algorithms by Facebook and Google and all the big tech companies that tried to censor and deplatform voices that challenge their liberal orthodoxy to actually,
[00:09:22]  which we haven't even talked about, Mark Zuckerberg, who is one of the world's wealthiest and most powerful men, financing the private takeover of government election offices and the media colluding with this to suppress stories that were that were bad for Biden, the media running Joe Biden's campaign.
[00:09:41]  I mean, he wasn't on the road.
[00:09:42]  It was the media who ran his campaign.
[00:09:45]  They invented stories about Donald Trump, such as the fake story that Russia was paying bounties to kill U.S. soldiers or the lie that Donald Trump had disparaged soldiers at Ayn Marn or the dead Marines and others buried at Ayn Marn in France.
[00:10:04]  Like they just made up stories and then they took real stories, like the stories about the Biden family business and how corrupt it is, and they just suppressed and buried them.
[00:10:12]  But yeah, it was all coordinated and they're they're kind of open and honest about it because they wanted to brag about it.
[00:10:17]  Yeah, and that article for Time magazine was stunning.
[00:10:20]  And I think they just kind of wanted to take a victory lap and say, hey, look how smart we were.
[00:10:24]  We had Zoom calls with labor and with activist groups.
[00:10:28]  And it literally says in the article, I'm paraphrasing, but it says, yeah, if we would have not got what we want, we would have been in the streets the next day.
[00:10:36]  And that one framing in that article was incredible.
[00:10:40]  Charlie, that was the part that I found most interesting.
[00:10:42]  I actually kind of already knew because I was already researching some of this that there had been this level of organization, but I thought it was all like what we're talking about, Mark Elias and funding and, you know, the kind of things that you expect political operatives to do.
[00:10:56]  When they admitted that they had the power to get people to riot or not riot, I was like, oh, so the summer of violence was all part of this as well.
[00:11:05]  And it makes sense.
[00:11:06]  Like that was a really smart strategy.
[00:11:08]  And I actually put a chapter of it in Rigged about the summer of violence where there was this lengthy insurrection against, you know, there was an attack on the White House.
[00:11:19]  This is back when attacking federal buildings and disrupting government was great, you know, and you had Kamala Harris like asking people to bail out rioters.
[00:11:27]  They attacked a federal courthouse for months on end, which, you know, again, why we would care about one article, Article I branch, but not Article II or Article III branches that are under attack, I don't understand.
[00:11:39]  I oppose all political violence.
[00:11:42]  But they, you know, they murdered their people killed in these riots.
[00:11:46]  There was the arson.
[00:11:47]  They were burning down precincts.
[00:11:50]  And it was really important because of a multiple number of reasons.
[00:11:55]  Donald Trump was actually very effective in getting more black vote than most Republican candidates can.
[00:12:03]  And so they were fearful about it.
[00:12:05]  So they wanted to heighten race problems so that they could maybe keep that stranglehold on the black vote that the left has been able to have for decades.
[00:12:14]  They also just wanted unrest because it was kind of this difficult position for President Trump to be in.
[00:12:20]  He, in my opinion, should have done much more to quell the riots.
[00:12:23]  But when he did restore order right in front of the White House, not only did the media and the Democrats lose their ever-living minds, so did members of his own cabinet.
[00:12:35]  And so did Republican senators like Ben Sass and Mitt Romney.
[00:12:40]  They condemned him.

=== Restoring Order After Chaos (02:02) ===

[00:12:41]  And so he was working with very little help.
[00:12:45]  And I'm not excusing it because I still think it was his responsibility to restore order and provide leadership there.
[00:12:51]  But it was a brilliant strategy because he was not keeping things in order.
[00:12:55]  And he also was boxed in and prevented from keeping things in order.
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[00:14:31]  Yeah, Floyda Palooza that summer was completely orchestrated, which is someone who kind of deals in the activist space and knows what it takes to get people fired up about something, just how blunt they are.
[00:14:41]  They're like, yeah, flip a switch.

=== A Massive Partisan Takeover (15:37) ===

[00:14:43]  It's just whatever.
[00:14:44]  It's like, we'll send in the shock troops.
[00:14:46]  Like they work for us.
[00:14:48]  And I tried to, you know, to little success, tell people, you realize this is all artificial, right?
[00:14:53]  It's not like they have organizers probably on payroll, ready to go with, you know, texting lists and it's just kind of deploy it at will.
[00:15:01]  Again, the book is called Rigged.
[00:15:02]  I want to make sure I keep on plugging it, how the media, big tech, and Democrats seized our elections.
[00:15:08]  And so I want to get into kind of the mail and ballot piece of this.
[00:15:12]  You wrote this piece for Newsweek recently, and I think it's actually an essay from your book, if I'm not mistaken, right?
[00:15:21]  And I think so, yeah.
[00:15:22]  Yeah, you wrote here about how the change in the election laws themselves had a profound difference in actually the outcome.
[00:15:31]  And so talk a little bit about this because here's one of my complaints about how people talk about the election, which you've done a phenomenal job of doing the opposite, which is people get so focused on a certain thing, like machines or routers.
[00:15:44]  This is comprehensive, right?
[00:15:46]  There were so many different elements of this that all kind of worked in harmony together.
[00:15:50]  Please talk about the mail-in ballot aspect of this.
[00:15:53]  Well, and I dove in in Wisconsin for mail-in ballots because I find that state to be so fascinating.
[00:16:00]  Wisconsin's constitution says that everyone has the right to vote.
[00:16:03]  They also have the right not to vote, and that mail-in or absentee balloting, I think is how they put it, is a privilege.
[00:16:09]  So there are different standards by which they judge in person, election day voting, and absentee mail-in balloting.
[00:16:17]  And first off, before COVID or anything else, Wisconsin has a problem where they're not keeping their list as clean as they should.
[00:16:25]  So people move all the time.
[00:16:27]  Like a huge percentage of the population is constantly moving.
[00:16:30]  You might have had yourself like 18 different addresses and you register to vote at one and then you move to the next, but you're still on the old list.
[00:16:36]  And so states are supposed to clean up their lists with some regularity.
[00:16:40]  And Wisconsin had a quarter of a million voter registrations that they were supposed to remove from their list, but they didn't.
[00:16:47]  They actually lost a court battle about whether to do it or not, but they still didn't.
[00:16:51]  And then into this mix is COVID.
[00:16:53]  And the clerks of the two most Democratic counties in the state say, we have this special provision in Wisconsin where you can register to vote without showing an ID.
[00:17:05]  So usually you have to show an ID, but if you say you're indefinitely confined, then you don't have to show an ID.
[00:17:11]  So they tell people to do it because of COVID.
[00:17:13]  And I think they get like another quarter of a million people registering to vote without requiring them, without a requirement for showing ID.
[00:17:20]  Some of them may have shown ID, but they're not required to.
[00:17:23]  Just have like messy lists happening everywhere.
[00:17:26]  Then the Wisconsin governor tries to postpone the election.
[00:17:29]  It's a huge issue because this isn't just a primary battle.
[00:17:32]  It's actually a general election for them.
[00:17:34]  He fails at doing it.
[00:17:35]  They do it.
[00:17:37]  And the New York Times writes up that what the Democrats really wanted this to be was like a test case for mail-in balloting because mail-in balloting is their strategy for the 20 for the general 2020 election.
[00:17:46]  And they're pretty pleased with how it went and how they can manipulate the vote and get out the vote, you know, get out more votes using the mail-in balloting.
[00:17:54]  And it's also when Republicans and Democrats realize that there is a partisan divide in whether or not people will choose to do mail-in balloting.
[00:18:03]  And Democrats have trust and confidence in the mail-in balloting process.
[00:18:08]  So they are pretty open to it.
[00:18:10]  Republicans are pretty hostile to it.
[00:18:13]  In some cases, like the RNC is polling people in different states.
[00:18:17]  It was like 80% of Georgians did not want to do mail-in balloting.
[00:18:22]  And so mail-in balloting becomes the Democratic strategy.
[00:18:26]  And this is important because of how it relates to what Mark Zuckerberg starts doing a couple months later, which is funding the private takeover of government election offices to massively expand mail-in balloting capabilities.
[00:18:41]  That's important because it has such a partisan effect.
[00:18:45]  He didn't just target his funding in a partisan manner, meaning he gave a lot of money to per capita to blue counties in swing states in order to achieve an outcome of actually swinging those states and he and he succeeded.
[00:18:58]  It's also just that mail-in balloting itself, like people left to their own devices, Republicans tend to vote in person on election day, maybe early.
[00:19:07]  Democrats are like, yeah, I have total confidence that every person involved in this like shady mail-in balloting process is going to treat my ballot with respect.
[00:19:15]  They might be right.
[00:19:16]  They might be right.
[00:19:16]  They might treat the Democrat ballots right.
[00:19:18]  So they might not be wrong.
[00:19:20]  But anyway, that's a different point.
[00:19:22]  And so talk, that's an important point because this kind of goes back to the central planning war room aspect of it, because Zuckerberg always denied that this was trying to have some sort of Democrat output.
[00:19:34]  This was all about trying to expand, you know, expand accessibility and it was about safety.
[00:19:40]  And we did an entire podcast on this where you just look at Georgia, nine out of 10, 25 out of 26 of the cities and counties where the money went to, the Federalists wrote this story and broke it.
[00:19:51]  And Phil Klein's been talking about this for a while, but we went through the entire Federalist piece kind of every paragraph by paragraph.
[00:19:57]  Phenomenal piece that shows that this was a massive partisan takeover.
[00:20:01]  But Molly, can you talk about how this was not just running ads?
[00:20:04]  This wasn't Zuckerberg running targeted ads.
[00:20:06]  This is something totally different.
[00:20:08]  So when people hear that Mark Zuckerberg spent $419 million to help Democrats win, they're like, well, it's a free country.
[00:20:14]  They gave more money.
[00:20:15]  Democrats had more money.
[00:20:16]  They want.
[00:20:17]  This is not campaign spending.
[00:20:20]  This is the governmental offices.
[00:20:23]  So what Mark Zuckerberg did is he gave money to two left-wing groups run by Obama operatives.
[00:20:28]  And then they funneled the money to these to these city and county election offices.
[00:20:33]  That money came with strings attached.
[00:20:35]  It mostly went to staffing.
[00:20:37]  These are the offices that handle voter registration, voting, ballot design, ballot counting, all of these, ballot harvesting, drop boxes.
[00:20:47]  And so by embedding into these offices in key blue cities, they were able to run the Democratic get out the vote operation from the government.
[00:20:58]  And that's what's so, you know, this is, this is like the one place that you're not supposed to have partisan politics engaged in.
[00:21:04]  We have the, we have the government handle elections precisely so that partisan partisans won't be able to manipulate the process.
[00:21:11]  And this is something that was like long, hard fought for in U.S. history.
[00:21:16]  And it would be like the New England Patriots hiring and training and paying the officiants at a game that they are playing against another team.
[00:21:28]  It's not, you know, doesn't necessarily mean that they're corrupt, but it certainly would not give you confidence in the results.
[00:21:34]  Yeah, but that I actually like the Patriots.
[00:21:36]  We have a lot of people that hate the Patriots.
[00:21:38]  I don't know.
[00:21:39]  Some people would call them cheaters.
[00:21:40]  Maybe the Astros would be a better example because we don't like them around here.
[00:21:43]  And so I like it.
[00:21:44]  Yeah.
[00:21:44]  The private takeover of elections is something that I was always told that Democrats hated.
[00:21:51]  That, I mean, could you, if the proverbial Koch brothers did this in 2014.
[00:21:58]  Yeah, it would be like having Karl Rove take Koch money to take like an army of college Republicans and put them into the system.
[00:22:07]  People would say, I feel like this isn't a good idea.
[00:22:10]  This isn't, this isn't how we should do it.
[00:22:11]  Or we don't want tech oligarchs controlling our elections.
[00:22:16]  And that's why actually a lot of states have already made it illegal.
[00:22:19]  I asked people in other states, like, why did you let this happen?
[00:22:23]  And first off, they were under the false impression that this was done for COVID relief and it was done in a bipartisan manner.
[00:22:29]  It wasn't.
[00:22:30]  I mean, they did give money to Republicans, but at such a small level relative to what they were giving, you know, Philadelphia would literally get $10 million and a Republican county would literally get 5,000.
[00:22:41]  I mean, the disparity was ridiculous.
[00:22:43]  But they said we didn't even know it was possible to take over our government election offices until it happened.
[00:22:49]  And so not only do people have to make sure that it doesn't, that that doesn't happen going forward, I think they need to be aware that Democrats are pretty entrepreneurial and savvy about understanding loopholes and exploits and make sure they're protecting what the plan is for the next election as well.
[00:23:06]  Well, and I will say, though, that every time Republicans try to be entrepreneurial, they get slammed by investigations and subpoenas.
[00:23:15]  And I don't want to get into much detail, but anytime I've been aware of groups that are like, yeah, this is what we'll do because there might be an opening here.
[00:23:24]  Immediately Washington Post comes or New York Times and it becomes, you know what I mean?
[00:23:29]  I do.
[00:23:30]  And I mean, I was thinking about it even when it came to detecting fraud.
[00:23:33]  So we all knew up until a year ago, everyone admitted, whether they were left or right, that mail-in balloting was rife with fraud.
[00:23:40]  I mean, that's why France banned it.
[00:23:41]  The New York Times and the Washington Post used to admit it.
[00:23:44]  It just gives you opportunities for fraud that you don't have with in-person voting.
[00:23:48]  And human nature being what it is, people of all persuasions try to commit, you know, try to try to manipulate things.
[00:23:54]  So you want to prevent the opportunities.
[00:23:56]  But when Republicans would actually detect problems, so for instance, Pennsylvania does not allow ballot harvesting.
[00:24:04]  You have to put your own ballot in the mail.
[00:24:06]  And they caught people putting in multiple ballots.
[00:24:09]  And when they did that, not only did the state AG, but the New York Times just lambasted the Trump campaign.
[00:24:15]  They're like, this is voter suppression.
[00:24:17]  If you have integrity in voting, that's voting suppression.
[00:24:20]  And so they did horrible coverage.
[00:24:22]  And it gets to the point where the Trump campaign is like, we can't even pursue this because we're getting destroyed.
[00:24:29]  And to have both the media and the supposed law enforcement people both colluding to prevent you from being able to detect fraud is a huge problem.
[00:24:39]  And it keeps on being a huge problem in Pennsylvania.
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[00:25:44]  So, Molly, one of my biggest issues is with Republicans.
[00:25:48]  And you kind of touched on this and I want to really focus on this because some of this was preventable and some of it was not.
[00:25:55]  And you can kind of, part of the part, it could have been preventable to restrain big tech years ago, but let's just say starting in January on January 1st, 2020 from Election Day, there was a lot of this could have been prevented.
[00:26:09]  And I met with the president in the summer of 2020 in the White House, and it was kind of during all of this question of Trump was tweeting about mail and ballots.
[00:26:17]  And I was there when he was getting calls from Republican governors, including Brian Kemp, saying, you've got to stop attacking mail-in ballots.
[00:26:23]  It's the most wonderful thing ever.
[00:26:25]  This is how we're going to win.
[00:26:26]  You're going to suppress our voters.
[00:26:28]  And not once did we get a special session from the Georgia state legislature or the Arizona legislature saying, hey, let's have a hearing and just kind of know what we're about to get into.
[00:26:37]  You know, we're expanding mail and balloting.
[00:26:39]  All this private money's coming in.
[00:26:42]  Why were Republicans caught so flat-footed?
[00:26:44]  Were they vacationing in the summer of 2020.
[00:26:46]  I mean, they have the constitutional authority to oversee the administration of these elections, and they just allowed unelected tech oligarchs just to purchase the election.
[00:26:55]  It was almost like they were all numb to what was happening.
[00:26:59]  And you see this repeated in states across the country.
[00:27:01]  I do want to say that there were that people should know that, in fact, a lot of this was fought.
[00:27:07]  And it was fought by the Trump campaign and it was fought by the RNC.
[00:27:11]  And frequently they were fighting. together against some of these changes and they had a ton of successes.
[00:27:16]  This could have been so much worse.
[00:27:18]  In fact, sometimes I wonder if all of those fake polls that said Biden was going to win by like 20 points, you know, when that you would hear it throughout the campaign, if they weren't designed to get people comfortable with the idea that such a thing could happen, because that's how much manipulation of the process was actually going on.
[00:27:36]  That's an interesting point.
[00:27:37]  It could have been worse.
[00:27:38]  The RNC and the Trump campaign both did take it seriously.
[00:27:42]  There's no question they didn't do enough.
[00:27:45]  There's no question that state legislatures didn't do enough.
[00:27:47]  In fact, in an infuriating way, they didn't do enough.
[00:27:50]  But then you also had situations where state legislatures weren't approving these changes and they would be brought in through this sue and settle approach.
[00:27:59]  And then courts that should have stopped it either just decided not to do anything or that too close to the election or there's nothing we can do.
[00:28:07]  You see this repeated at the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, the Wisconsin Supreme Court, all sorts of different, you know, in federal courts where courts don't like to get involved in elections and you can understand why, but by failing to bring integrity to the process and a clear understanding of the rules, they actually contributed to the disaster of people not having confidence in the results.
[00:28:27]  So sometimes backing away from, you know, the democratic process can actually lead to a greater disillusion of trust.
[00:28:35]  And you actually see the Supreme Court justices, Kavanaugh, Alito, and Thomas all say that, that failure to have done due diligence on some of these things.
[00:28:47]  You know, they would, a case would come up and they'd say, well, we don't, it's too soon to rule on it.
[00:28:53]  And then once the election had happened, they'd say, well, it's moot because the election is over.
[00:28:57]  You know, sometimes you actually just have to take up a case, let the chips fall where they may.
[00:29:02]  And, you know, I actually think a lot of these cases might not have actually gone in the Trump campaign's favor, but still having resolution would have been more ideal.
[00:29:11]  Well, and the opposition, they had the will and they saw the opening with the Fauci virus to change the way that we do elections forever.
[00:29:20]  So, Charlie, did you know about the consent decree that I was going to ask you about?
[00:29:25]  That was actually my next question.
[00:29:26]  Yeah.
[00:29:26]  How on earth did Brian Kemp sign a consent decree in private?
[00:29:29]  And most people didn't know about it until after.
[00:29:32]  Okay.
[00:29:32]  Well, I actually, I was going to ask about a different consent decision.
[00:29:35]  The RNC one that disallowed them from doing poll watching, right?
[00:29:38]  And let me just quickly talk about that one, which is they agreed to a consent decree in 1983 after they're accused of doing something wrong in a New Jersey gubernatorial election.
[00:29:48]  And it ends up lasting for almost 40 years that the Republican National Committee cannot do any election day work for literally nearly 40 years.
[00:29:58]  And so even though they finally get out of it in 2018, they sort of don't have the muscle memory to know what to do on Election Day.
[00:30:07]  And a bunch of people at the RNC actually were taking everything very seriously.
[00:30:11]  They were litigating all these issues, but they were still constrained by their own, you know, by having had 40 years with both arms tied behind their back.

=== The RNC Consent Decree (12:37) ===

[00:30:20]  Okay, different consent decree in Georgia.
[00:30:24]  It's not just, it's not just Raffensburger's fault there because it was actually his Secretary of State that signed that one in Georgia.
[00:30:32]  That's where Mark Elias comes in with one of his little groups and sues to change mail-in balloting guidelines.
[00:30:42]  And partly, I'm extremely critical of Georgia and the Secretary of State's office in the book.
[00:30:49]  But this is actually not the worst issue that they did, even though this was one of the bad issues that they handled.
[00:30:56]  They just kind of agree to what Mark Elias demands, but they did it in part because they'd already changed, the legislature had changed the law to expand mail-in balloting, and they felt that it wasn't too big of a deal.
[00:31:08]  Republican lawyers at the state and national level kind of signed off on this.
[00:31:12]  And they believed that if they went along to get along here, that it would give them a stronger footing when Elias came back and the Democrats came back and tried to expand election day ballot return for like another week or two.
[00:31:27]  And they kind of thought, well, if we show good faith here, then the courts won't force us to keep the balloting open for week after week.
[00:31:34]  But the much worse thing that the Georgians do, the Zuckerberg funding frequently comes in through friendly Democratic counties, right?
[00:31:42]  They give money.
[00:31:43]  You know, a Democratic county asks for a huge sum of money and they get it.
[00:31:46]  And there's some reason to believe they all knew exactly what was going on with it.
[00:31:50]  Georgia is the only case where like the Republican Secretary of State, they oversee this primary that's a total disaster in June and they get really negative coverage from the New York Times, which is like, who cares?
[00:32:02]  It wasn't really their fault.
[00:32:03]  It was the Democratic Fulton County commissioners who had done a bad job with managing the election.
[00:32:09]  But they took it very personally and they invite Zuckerberg money in so that they can expand and dramatically and do like, basically they bring in the money so that they can do Democratic get out the vote efforts from, again, the Secretary of State's office and these county offices.
[00:32:27]  And so they did it.
[00:32:29]  They basically ran it.
[00:32:30]  Raffensperger basically ran the Democratic get out the vote operation.
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[00:33:32]  I always focused on the consent decree, and you added some interesting context and put myself more in their shoes.
[00:33:37]  I still think it was a mistake, but you're right.
[00:33:39]  But you're trying to say that Raffensperger, because of a negative New York Times article, because of a poorly executed primary, they're like, you know what?
[00:33:46]  Let's try to get some private money into this whole opera.
[00:33:49]  Is that what you're saying?
[00:33:50]  Like, let's just do what Zuckerberg wants us to do?
[00:33:53]  Yeah.
[00:33:53]  So Fulton County was the place where people really did stand in line all day to vote in the primary.
[00:33:59]  By the way, if you listen or watch or read the media coverage of that primary, it sounds like the most unhinged people on the right after the election.
[00:34:09]  They're all like, they use Dominion voting systems and those are hackable and foreign adversaries.
[00:34:14]  You know, they're saying all this.
[00:34:15]  The New York Times and Politico sound just kind of like the Democratic senators.
[00:34:20]  If you ever watch those hearings where they're like getting very conspiratorial about voting machines, that's right.
[00:34:24]  Amy Clobotar and Colin Lee.
[00:34:26]  And they used to sound like that.
[00:34:27]  And they used to not be in power.
[00:34:28]  That's right.
[00:34:29]  Yes.
[00:34:29]  Right.
[00:34:31]  But that election goes so poorly that they think if we could help Democrats do their mail-in balloting, then we won't have long lines on election day.
[00:34:41]  And what they're not realizing is what they're saying, what they're saying is if we could run the Democratic get out the vote operation from within our offices, and they targeted the funding in areas where they were expecting people to be amenable to mail-in balloting, which means they were targeting these like high population Democratic areas.
[00:35:01]  And so they bring in the money and then they use the money to like do social media ads and radio ads targeting Democratic voting populations to help them maximize their vote numbers.
[00:35:13]  These are the types of things that private campaigns like Republican and Democratic campaigns spend a lot of money on.
[00:35:19]  They work really hard to get the information to know who to target and how to get out the vote.
[00:35:23]  And that's okay.
[00:35:24]  Like it's a free country and people can use them, you know, can use private funds to do that.
[00:35:28]  This was using private funds in the governmental office in a partisan fashion.
[00:35:33]  And usually when people did it, they were Democrat.
[00:35:36]  In George's case, they were Republican and didn't really.
[00:35:39]  And I just want to also point out, it's not just Raffensperger, but his chief of staff, who's named Jordan Fuchs, I think.
[00:35:45]  What is that name?
[00:35:45]  And that weird like private contractor guy that kept on going on television.
[00:35:49]  What was that guy's name?
[00:35:50]  Connor.
[00:35:51]  I totally forgot.
[00:35:52]  Do you know what I'm saying?
[00:35:52]  He'd like go on CNN and give like criticism of Republican.
[00:35:55]  Yeah, he had some German name, not Raffensperger.
[00:35:58]  I'll think of it.
[00:35:58]  It was like, I don't know.
[00:35:59]  It was like the weirdest guy.
[00:36:01]  I'll think of it.
[00:36:02]  If I had in front of me, if I was like a multiple choice test, but you know who I'm talking about?
[00:36:05]  It's like some weird subcontractor who kept on showing up on TV.
[00:36:09]  What's funny is it would always have his title as if he were a guy.
[00:36:13]  Gabriel Sterling.
[00:36:15]  Yeah.
[00:36:15]  Gabe Sterling.
[00:36:16]  Gabe Sterling.
[00:36:17]  And he was, he kind of got, I think he got, I'd heard he'd gotten more money by being a contractor than by being an employee.
[00:36:23]  But this is the same office that then leaks phone calls right on the eve of an election as sort of like this vindictive measure to go after President Trump.
[00:36:32]  They also, I don't know if they were too stupid or if they were too ill-informed to understand what the Trump campaign was asking for in some of those calls.
[00:36:41]  So in order to get a new election going forward in Georgia, courts have kind of said, you don't have to show how people would have voted if there are questionable ballots.
[00:36:52]  You just have to show that there are enough questionable ballots.
[00:36:54]  And one of the things the Trump campaign figures out is that there are in fact a ton of illegal votes in Georgia.
[00:37:00]  They don't know who they would have gone for, but there are people who should have been voting in one place who were voting in another.
[00:37:05]  And that disenfranchises, of course, legal voters who do follow the law about where you should vote.
[00:37:11]  And Trump says something on the call like, I don't need you to agree that we have 150,000 of them.
[00:37:16]  I just need you to find like 11,000 of them, which there were that many.
[00:37:22]  And that gets leaked as if he's asking for them to find illegal votes.
[00:37:26]  And it was, it was a like a somewhat complicated issue, but not that complicated.
[00:37:30]  And the Secretary of State's office is the one leaking that.
[00:37:33]  Sorry.
[00:37:34]  They cherry-picked the call.
[00:37:35]  They misreported the call, right?
[00:37:37]  Well, there was also that other call that that office was alleged to have leaked in which they, well, it wasn't audio they leaked because when the audio came out, it turned out that what they claimed had happened on that other call hadn't actually happened.
[00:37:50]  And that had been so explosive that it ended up, I think, in impeachment paperwork.
[00:37:54]  And that office could really use some competency that is not there right now.
[00:37:59]  So I first want to just reiterate the book title, Rigged.
[00:38:03]  Everyone should go buy a copy.
[00:38:05]  I want to thank you for writing it because you have a ton of respect and this issue is trying to be kind of swept under the rug by the ruling class in the Republican Party.
[00:38:15]  And you have enough respect where you're going to be able to, I think, make this a consensus issue amongst the educated people.
[00:38:24]  And do you want to comment on that before I get into the question?
[00:38:27]  Yeah.
[00:38:27]  Yeah, just I think it's important that people understand that this isn't just about what happened in 2020.
[00:38:32]  This is about all elections going forward.
[00:38:35]  And you can't just accept rigged elections.
[00:38:37]  You can't just accept like, oh, I guess we live in a place where people can completely pollute the process by which we elect people and there's nothing we can do about it.
[00:38:47]  Democracy depends not on the consent of the winners, but on the losers.
[00:38:51]  And so you have to have systems in place where people can trust results and they can deal with, you know, with the results, whatever they may be.
[00:38:58]  And you can't have a really messy system and have a democratic aspect to our government continue.
[00:39:05]  Yes.
[00:39:05]  And so that is really kind of where I want to close out this conversation because I always try to be solution oriented, but you can only really be solution oriented if you know the problem, which we've gone through it.
[00:39:14]  And we haven't even gone through all of it, by the way.
[00:39:16]  We're just coming to surface.
[00:39:17]  What can we do to make sure 2022 and 24 is not rigged?
[00:39:23]  Okay.
[00:39:23]  So first off, I would say don't care at all about the media and what they say about it because these are the same people who said 2016 was stolen by Donald Trump and now you can't talk about 2020.
[00:39:33]  Like just ignore them.
[00:39:34]  They don't matter.
[00:39:35]  But I would say people at the state level do need to understand what their laws are.
[00:39:39]  First and foremost, ban the private funding of government election offices.
[00:39:43]  That is a no-brainer and nobody can defend that.
[00:39:46]  Two, another issue that is actually very popular across the political spectrum is to ensure that you have voter ID.
[00:39:52]  A voter ID tied to either mail-in ballot or voting in person is very important.
[00:39:58]  Also, just clarifying the process.
[00:40:01]  Sort of one of the big problems that is out there is just not an agreement on what the rules are.
[00:40:06]  And so you'll see Democratic counties sort of saying, we don't really know what the rules are, so we'll flout them.
[00:40:11]  And you have Republicans who tend to be very like rule-oriented, following the strict letter of the law.
[00:40:16]  The more you can clarify what the law is and how it should be practiced is best.
[00:40:21]  And that's just going to depend on which state it is.
[00:40:23]  But more than anything, just like be involved, be careful.
[00:40:27]  Make sure you have proper oversight and make sure that the oversight is in place before the ballots are separated from the envelopes or before, you know, once they're separated, there's basically nothing you can do.
[00:40:37]  So make sure all the systems are in place at the front end.
[00:40:40]  Well, I just want to reiterate what you said, though.
[00:40:42]  First of all, not caring about the media is important.
[00:40:44]  They're going to say you're a threat to democracy and all this.
[00:40:46]  It's a bunch of nonsense.
[00:40:47]  And it's so, it's such a sad kind of indictment of where our country is because it's the opposite, honestly, because the ones that are a threat to democracy are the multi-billionaire oligarchs that no one voted for that just can come in and swoop and purchase the elections.
[00:41:01]  And let me just kind of close with this.
[00:41:03]  With the people you're talking to, the smart people in DC, you know, the important people, are you starting to see a consensus being built that this thing really was an election unlike anything we've ever seen?
[00:41:15]  Or are you like, hey, we got to add more fuel to the fire?
[00:41:18]  What are you seeing when it comes to this?
[00:41:19]  Honestly, I never talked to anyone who didn't admit that this was a total mess in 2020.
[00:41:25]  They all actually understood it and they all are working on it.
[00:41:28]  I think they could really improve how they talk about it.
[00:41:31]  And that goes for everybody, really understanding exactly what the issues are and clarifying and leading the way because it is an existential threat for people if we don't, if we can't have secure elections.
[00:41:42]  But I do want to give one thing, which is throughout our history, we have fought over these things.
[00:41:46]  We want to make, we want to make sure that people who should be voting are voting if they choose to vote and making sure that there isn't cheating.
[00:41:54]  We really have had ongoing issues since before we even were a country.
[00:41:59]  So it's not the end of the world that we're dealing with this.
[00:42:01]  It just requires active participation from concerned citizens.
[00:42:05]  And in a way, I'm more excited about where people are now that people are totally aware of how important it is to care about voting lists and ballot processes.
[00:42:15]  Like people are much more informed now than they were two years ago.
[00:42:18]  And I bet they wish they were this informed two years ago.
[00:42:21]  And that's a huge thing going forward.
[00:42:23]  I agree.
[00:42:24]  And this is the number one issue amongst the conservative base.
[00:42:27]  The book is rigged.
[00:42:29]  Everyone go get it right now.
[00:42:30]  Molly Hemingway from thefederalist.com, one of my favorite websites.
[00:42:33]  Very smart people over there.
[00:42:34]  Molly, thank you so much for joining us and great job with the book.
[00:42:38]  Thank you, Charlie.
[00:42:39]  All right, talk to you soon.
[00:42:40]  Thank you.
[00:42:43]  Thank you so much for listening, everybody.
[00:42:45]  Email us your thoughts.
[00:42:46]  Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.
[00:42:48]  God bless you guys.
[00:42:49]  Thank you for listening.
[00:42:50]  Talk to you soon.
[00:42:54]  For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.