The Charlie Kirk Show - Congressman Matt Gaetz vs. The DC Cartel
Aired: 2020-09-30
Duration: 46:09


=== Saving Our Beautiful Country (02:22) ===

[00:00:00]  Thank you for listening to this podcast one production.
[00:00:02]  Now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast One, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
[00:00:08]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:08]  Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, an exclusive conversation with my friend, Congressman Matt Gates.
[00:00:13]  He goes through how corrupt D.C. is.
[00:00:15]  He goes through the process of how many of our elected representatives are bought and paid for by transnational corporations.
[00:00:21]  Some pretty eye-opening stuff.
[00:00:22]  He's got a new book that you should check out.
[00:00:24]  Please consider supporting our program at charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:29]  If we have impacted your life in any way, please become a monthly supporter at charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:35]  We are doing two podcasts a day so that you have the news, information, insight that you need to be an informed citizen to help save our beautiful country at charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:46]  Email us your questions, freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:51]  Matt Gates is here, everybody.
[00:00:52]  Buckle up.
[00:00:53]  Here we go.
[00:00:55]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:00:56]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.
[00:00:59]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:01:02]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:01:05]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:01:06]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:07]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
[00:01:14]  Turning point USA.
[00:01:16]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:24]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:28]  Hey, everybody.
[00:01:29]  Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:01:31]  We are thrilled to be joined today by my friend and one of the only good guys in Congress, Congressman Matt Gates, author of the new book, Firebrand, Dispatches from the Front Lines of the MAGA Revolution.
[00:01:42]  Everyone, go pick up your copy.
[00:01:44]  Matt, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.
[00:01:46]  It's good to be back, Charlie.
[00:01:47]  I always get the best social media and engagement when I'm on the Charlie Kirk show because I get all the turning point influencers.
[00:01:54]  The influencer army that you've built online continues to amplify the America first message that we're both fighting for.
[00:02:01]  Well, thank you.
[00:02:02]  I deeply appreciate that.
[00:02:03]  And we've grown in the last couple of years, as have you in your presence and the following that you have grown so tremendously.
[00:02:13]  So, Matt, tell us about this book.
[00:02:14]  Tell us why you wrote it.
[00:02:16]  And also just kind of give us a little bit of an update from the front lines of the MAGA revolution.

=== The PAC Money Problem (15:50) ===

[00:02:22]  Well, I view the Trump movement as one that is not just built around a man, but that is built around a series of ideas.
[00:02:31]  And so really, you know, Firebrand is the book that folks ought to read right after they read the MAGA Doctrine because together, it really identifies the policies and the style that we need to ensure that this is an enduring movement.
[00:02:45]  It won't be enough for your generation and mine if we do all kind of great things during the Trump presidency, which I suspect will last an additional four years, and then we just go back to the Bushes or the Cheneys or the Romneys or the Kasichs.
[00:02:58]  I think that the populist enthusiasm that we see right now in the Republican Party is the result of things like standing against endless wars, standing against the big tech tyranny that is trying to stifle debate in our country, actively opposing the cancel culture, not just self-canceling, but getting out there and identifying circumstances where people have been treated unfairly and then actually un-canceling people so that folks can make a full contribution to society.
[00:03:27]  But the main thing I wanted to identify in the book is the culture of corruption in Washington, D.C. that is driven by money.
[00:03:35]  I am the only Republican congressman who does not take any PAC money.
[00:03:39]  And it is because after three and a half years in this place, it looks a whole lot more like prostitution than it does fundraising.
[00:03:46]  It is the exchange of money for favors and benefits.
[00:03:50]  And it is explicit.
[00:03:52]  They show up to these Washington fundraiser events, and I describe in the book how it happens.
[00:03:57]  And literally, they go around the table telling you how much money they've brought and what they expect from you, signing on to a letter, co-sponsoring a bill, voting for something or against something in a committee.
[00:04:08]  And like the first few times I went to these things, I was kind of wondering, like, is anyone here wearing a wire?
[00:04:12]  Because it felt like a straight-up shakedown.
[00:04:15]  The other thing is that committees are just bought and sold in Congress, and this is on both sides of the aisle.
[00:04:19]  Like, if you want to be on a certain committee, there's a certain amount of money that you are expected to provide to the political apparatus of your leadership.
[00:04:27]  And if you don't do that, you won't get those committees.
[00:04:29]  I had to pay $75,000 to get on the Armed Services Committee from my political fund to the Paul Ryan-managed political fund at that time.
[00:04:38]  And, you know, I figured, Charlie, if it was for sale, I didn't want to just pay once.
[00:04:42]  I paid twice, so I gave him $150,000.
[00:04:44]  That's how I also ended up on the Judiciary Committee, which is how most of the country knows about my work.
[00:04:50]  Well, Congressman, can you talk about, I mean, it's just hard for me to process that.
[00:04:55]  And first of all, you deserve to be completely applauded for your stance on that.
[00:04:59]  And as soon as you made that announcement at CPAC, I sent you enthusiastic text messages.
[00:05:04]  Guys said, this is exactly what is needed.
[00:05:06]  And quite honestly, Alexandria Kaiser-Cortez, Elon Omar, Rashida Talib, when they say they don't take PAC money, it's hard to do that.
[00:05:13]  Can you talk about how it's harder to raise money without kind of the corporate K-Street lobbyist revenue stream?
[00:05:21]  I mean, it's easier just to go to the corporate class and say, please give me the $2,800 minimum and max out to my leadership pack, and I'll do whatever you ask on these certain committees.
[00:05:31]  And what we have is this kind of fusion of the largest transnational companies that do not love our country and our government.
[00:05:38]  And that is fascist in nature.
[00:05:40]  I think we're actually flirting with fascism more than socialism, not because of President Trump, actually predated him, but it's a small select few of chosen companies that are allowed special access to the albatross of the government.
[00:05:53]  Can you talk about how hard it is to not get those, not raise money that way, and also why you think more Republicans should follow your example?
[00:06:03]  I think President Trump has created a dynamic in politics that doesn't prioritize money first.
[00:06:10]  If you look at all of politics before President Trump, you can almost say whoever has the most money is tremendously likely to win.
[00:06:17]  President Trump had less money than Hillary Clinton, but he won with message and with movement and inspiration.
[00:06:23]  And so I don't raise as much money as my colleagues.
[00:06:26]  I don't want to pretend as though I'm some fundraising giant.
[00:06:30]  In reality, I raise far less.
[00:06:31]  But I don't think the money is as important if you tell people what you believe and if you're clear and if you tell people the truth and if that is inspiring and motivating.
[00:06:40]  And so what I've learned is that if you're active and energetic on social media, if you go on television and tell people what you believe every night, if in the committee hearings you don't play by the stiff, stodgy rules of the dad ties and the old man cologne, but you bring a little enthusiasm to the endeavor, that people will actually vote for you and support you and they will not believe the normal, hokey, 30-second political advertising that a lot of this money fuels.
[00:07:08]  I mean, think about it, Charlie.
[00:07:09]  When people raise money in Washington, they pay one person to go get it from the pack checks.
[00:07:14]  They pay another person to deposit it and manage it.
[00:07:16]  They pay another person to create a television ad, and then they pay another person to actually place that television ad.
[00:07:22]  So I'm just trying to cut out all the middlemen.
[00:07:24]  I just go on television, I go on social media, I say what I believe, but it does result in less money.
[00:07:29]  But I think that if you buy the Trump theory of the case, that this is about a macro message, making our country great, putting our people first, being joyous about it.
[00:07:39]  I mean, gosh, like, you know, one thing I admire about you, Charlie, is that you could go in the lion's den and you got a smile on your face.
[00:07:45]  And you always kind of give me this half grin and say it's your inner peace.
[00:07:48]  But the reality is, you know, you're there for a purpose.
[00:07:52]  And that sense of purpose drives people.
[00:07:54]  It drives our president and it should drive more of our political leaders.
[00:07:58]  Like, we deserve in the greatest country in the world, politicians who are bold enough to make the tough choices and to define an agenda.
[00:08:06]  And then we need a media that is honest enough to objectively report it.
[00:08:10]  And instead, we get the perverse opposite.
[00:08:12]  We get a bunch of limp-wristed politicians who are just too afraid to take a stand on anything.
[00:08:18]  We see that particularly in the Senate.
[00:08:20]  And then we've got a media class that doesn't want to objectively report on what's happening.
[00:08:25]  They want to make the news.
[00:08:26]  They want to cause things to happen with advocacy journalism like you see at CNN and other places.
[00:08:31]  That's why I wrote the enemy of the people chapter in my book about the president's correct perceptions of the media today and the negative impact that so many of them have on our country.
[00:08:41]  The book is firebrand.
[00:08:42]  Everyone, go pick up a copy now.
[00:08:44]  So, Matt, can you also just build out how you think the Republican Party in the future needs to take no more lobbyist money, no more PAC money?
[00:08:52]  I've said this for quite some time: that whatever party demonstrates to working people that they no longer represent the biggest companies and the lobbying firms will be richly rewarded by the voters.
[00:09:03]  I tell people all the time, people say, Charlie, what's the number one issue in our country?
[00:09:07]  They say, is it health care?
[00:09:08]  Is it taxes?
[00:09:10]  Is it guns?
[00:09:10]  I say, all those things are really important.
[00:09:12]  But the bumbling frustration under all of them that fueled the populist rise of President Trump and the failed populist rise of Bernie Sanders, but still a pretty admirable rise, is that people felt as if their government was bought and paid for by the rich, few, and the well-connected.
[00:09:27]  And they're right.
[00:09:28]  I've seen the same sort of system that you describe.
[00:09:30]  And some of your colleagues in Congress are really good people, but they've been there so long and they just go through the motions and they take the PAC money and then they're actually handcuffed.
[00:09:40]  They're suffocated from saying the right things, from challenging the war machine, from saying we should break up big tech companies, from saying that we should close our borders because there's all these competing revenue flows and this favor exchange that really prevents them from doing the right thing.
[00:09:58]  I actually think Bernie Sanders, despite him being a Bolshevik and all these sorts of things, I think he got this part right, where he said that the campaign finance issue, and I think his policy prescription was awful, but the campaign finance issue is really one of the reasons why we still have a million people coming into our country every single year, why our tech companies act as pseudo-governments in our country, why we still are occupying like a failed empire halfway across the world.
[00:10:25]  It's because our leaders are bought and paid for by these transnational corporations.
[00:10:31]  Matt, can you tell us if any Republicans are following your example?
[00:10:35]  And if not, why?
[00:10:37]  I am the only Republican who's taken this view.
[00:10:40]  And you talk about Bernie and AOC.
[00:10:42]  They're socialists, Charlie, but at least they're sincere socialists.
[00:10:46]  They really believe the damaging things they're saying.
[00:10:49]  They don't say one thing because they are being funded by a particular entity or group.
[00:10:54]  It is honest and sincere.
[00:10:55]  And frankly, in our politics today, Cincerris is very attractive to the voters.
[00:10:59]  I think it's one of the reasons why President Trump being so visceral draws so many people to him.
[00:11:05]  But PAC money in Washington is a lot like meth.
[00:11:08]  Once you start taking it, you got to keep taking it.
[00:11:11]  And when they get new members of Congress here for the orientation process, it's just downright seductive.
[00:11:17]  I mean, I write about the scenes in my book when I first show up to Washington and the first dinner they take you to.
[00:11:22]  I mean, steaks that are worth more than my kidney would fetch on the black market, carafs of wine dancing around the table.
[00:11:29]  And, you know, Paul Ryan at the time stands up sort of as like the king before his lobbyist court.
[00:11:34]  And he told all of us who had newly arrived that the people really responsible for getting us elected were the donors and the lobbyists.
[00:11:42]  And you are told that if you just surrender your voting card to the special interests, that life will be pretty easy for you.
[00:11:50]  People will pay to have dinner with you.
[00:11:52]  People will pay to have drinks with you.
[00:11:54]  You'll get invited to all the cool embassy parties and cocktail circuits in Washington, D.C.
[00:12:00]  And if you're ever really in trouble, there'll be a big corporate-funded super PAC to come and kind of bail you out.
[00:12:06]  But I think that what I'm doing, fighting against that PAC-based system, is only possible because Donald Trump is president.
[00:12:14]  Because what happens is once people start taking PAC money, look, I mean, I'm here for confession, Charlie.
[00:12:19]  I took PAC money.
[00:12:20]  I catfished those PACs out of hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, my first term and a half.
[00:12:25]  And after I just felt sick and I thought, I just can't do this anymore.
[00:12:29]  And that's why I made a different decision to liberate myself from it.
[00:12:32]  But I understand my colleagues who they've taken hundreds of thousands, some millions from these PACs.
[00:12:37]  And then how do they turn around and say, well, this was a corrupt, bad system that I've been a part of?
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[00:14:02]  Matt, this is why nothing gets done, though.
[00:14:04]  This is why the people are so angry at the political class.
[00:14:08]  And what I love most about you is that you're actually living it out.
[00:14:11]  You're not just saying, oh, we need to stop taking PAC money through this bill.
[00:14:15]  You're actually doing it, and you should continue to demand all your colleagues.
[00:14:19]  And also, Matt, can you talk about how foreign countries are able to engage financially with lobbying firms on K Street?
[00:14:28]  The lobbying firms then take the money from those foreign countries, some of them being Islamic theocratic fascist dictatorships, and then they're able to directly contribute to candidates' campaign packs.
[00:14:39]  All it is is just a laundering scheme.
[00:14:41]  There's no, it's just a little bit off the top, right?
[00:14:43]  So for your trouble, how is it any different than that foreign government giving it directly to Congressman A?
[00:14:49]  And then we wonder why our country has not been the forefront of focus in Congress.
[00:14:56]  I mean, and you've probably seen this firsthand, Matt, where you're like, wait a second, you're a lobbyist and you represent what country?
[00:15:02]  Excuse me?
[00:15:03]  Like, yeah, you're a nice guy, and I guess we agree on college football, but you're engaged for $2 million a month from who?
[00:15:09]  Can you talk about that?
[00:15:11]  Sure, Charlie.
[00:15:12]  And, you know, the one thing we can say about all foreign countries, whether they're our friends or our enemies, is that ain't a one of them putting America first, right?
[00:15:19]  They're there to put their own countries first.
[00:15:21]  And you've exactly described the system.
[00:15:23]  We talk about the money laundering with the cartels.
[00:15:25]  There's more money laundering on K Street than any cartel ever dreamed of because these foreign companies, like you say, and by the way, the numbers you quote are not out of range.
[00:15:34]  One, two million dollars a month.
[00:15:37]  And then those lobbyists get to keep a good amount of that, but they're expected to deploy the rest of them to buy influence for their clients.
[00:15:45]  And you know what's really egregious?
[00:15:47]  A lot of those lobbyists who go to represent foreign countries are former members of Congress.
[00:15:52]  That's exactly right.
[00:15:53]  That's their favorite.
[00:15:53]  Their favorite thing to do is to go buy off former members of Congress.
[00:15:58]  So I talk about Senator David Vitter, a Republican, who, when he was in the Senate, fought hard against China, against their human rights abuses.
[00:16:07]  But then, when he was no longer a senator and he was able to become a lobbyist, and I think he was hurt in his race for governor because he got caught up in a prostitution scandal as the John.
[00:16:18]  But then he comes out and says, Oh, well, you know, now I think these Chinese companies should get special permission.
[00:16:24]  And he lobbied the Commerce Department to help them get their counterfeit products into the United States.
[00:16:28]  So it turns out Senator Vitter is a lot more dangerous as the trick than as the John, because as the trick, he's actually undermining America and working at the behest of people who hate us.
[00:16:40]  And like, by the way, it's never like the fire brands who end up going and working for these foreign governments.
[00:16:45]  It's always like the establishment types, like the people that you look at and say, oh, well, they were viewed as a good person, a committee chairman or a subcommittee chairman.
[00:16:54]  You know, it's not the people from the freedom caucus that go engage in that behavior.
[00:16:58]  They know who to pick off.
[00:16:59]  They know how.
[00:17:00]  And you know what effect that has?
[00:17:01]  If you're currently in Congress and the job you want after Congress is whoring out to some foreign country or some multinational corporation, you start behaving that way.
[00:17:11]  You start to show them your utility as their valet.
[00:17:14]  And, you know, I think that our politics too often has been dominated by this theory that one party is going to save you and the other party's out to get you.
[00:17:21]  The reality in D.C. too often is that both parties are partying on your dime.
[00:17:26]  That's exactly.
[00:17:26]  And the parties aren't even that fun.
[00:17:28]  And so I, you know, and by the way, the new influence peddler in this game is big tech.
[00:17:33]  You know, we talk about telecom, the military-industrial complex, those are the institutional actors.
[00:17:39]  But big tech has multiple lobbyists for every member of Congress.
[00:17:43]  And their new thing that they do is they go and hire the spouses and family members of powerful members of Congress in exchange for influence.
[00:17:52]  I mean, Chuck Schumer's daughter works for Facebook.
[00:17:55]  You tell me how we're ever going to get a good regulation on Section 230, the Communication Decency Act, to liberate the free speech interests of Americans if you've got one of the most powerful people in the Congress having their family members work for the people that we're supposed to be holding accountable.

=== Fighting Big Tech Monopolies (09:02) ===

[00:18:13]  So let's talk about big tech.
[00:18:15]  You have been one of the leading voices against big tech.
[00:18:19]  I have found in the last couple years, there are two groups of people.
[00:18:23]  Actually, there's probably three groups of people in Republican circles on big tech.
[00:18:27]  There's those that are legitimately concerned, but they're purchased by big tech because they take money from Google Super PEC.
[00:18:34]  And so, again, you get to root causes, Matt.
[00:18:38]  You're not taking the money.
[00:18:39]  So you are free to be able to do what is the right thing for your constituents.
[00:18:43]  There's the second group of people that are not concerned at all, and they're also purchased by big tech.
[00:18:48]  And then there's the third group of people, and that's you, where you're not purchased by big tech and you actually want to do something about it.
[00:18:53]  But what's really interesting is that the Republicans use the same excuse.
[00:18:59]  We're for the free market.
[00:19:01]  Don't you understand?
[00:19:02]  We're for the free market.
[00:19:04]  And they say, we don't want to do any, you know, we want to have innovation, all this sort of stuff.
[00:19:07]  And what's really interesting is that all of the ecosystem that gives them the supposed white paper support is financed by big tech.
[00:19:18]  The biggest think tanks in Washington, D.C. receive seven-figure wires from these international pseudo-government Silicon Valley tyrannical companies.
[00:19:27]  And what's really funny is that these tech companies, they don't believe in Milton Friedman.
[00:19:32]  They don't believe in free markets.
[00:19:34]  They're doing nothing more than buying the ideological gateway so that they get untouched.
[00:19:42]  They just use it as an excuse.
[00:19:44]  And then they'll go to the left and they'll have a different approach, right?
[00:19:47]  They say, oh, you should support us because we're actually fighting for justice and we're fighting for BLM.
[00:19:52]  So they know how to appropriate their money.
[00:19:54]  So, Matt, I think it's long past time.
[00:19:56]  Section 230, Sherman Antitrust Act, break up the companies, tie them up in courts, make their life a living hell.
[00:20:03]  These companies are far too big.
[00:20:04]  They have lied to us.
[00:20:05]  They've said that they've made their products more addictive than tobacco.
[00:20:09]  We as conservatives should love liberty.
[00:20:11]  Love liberty.
[00:20:13]  And if a private company or a bureaucrat is infringing on our liberty, that should bother us.
[00:20:18]  What is the path forward of big tech?
[00:20:21]  Well, step one, beware of the false prophets on the Republican side who give lip service to the issue, but then actually don't want to do anything about it.
[00:20:30]  And then support those of us who are actually trying to do what you said and bring a multifaceted approach to this conflict.
[00:20:37]  Because if we just try one thing, if we just try legislating, we'll hit our head against the wall.
[00:20:41]  If we just try the Federal Elections Commission or the FCC, those are staggered terms, so it takes a while.
[00:20:46]  So my advice to the Trump administration, and I know you've given advice to the Trump administration on this too, is that we have to have a multi-pronged attack on those who would deprive us of the ability to freely communicate.
[00:20:57]  So you got folks like Josh Hawley, my good friend in the Senate, who is sincere about bringing that to bear.
[00:21:02]  But then on the other end of the spectrum, you have people like Ambassador Nikki Haley, someone who a lot of folks think is going to run for president in 2024.
[00:21:10]  And she's out there publicly giving a cat bath to big tech.
[00:21:14]  She tweets that, oh, you know, well, we shouldn't allow censorship of conservatives, but we can't possibly regulate big tech because that would put too many lawyers and bureaucrats in charge of things.
[00:21:24]  And that's even worse.
[00:21:25]  You know what?
[00:21:26]  That's BS.
[00:21:27]  That is the type of talk from somebody who is sucking up to big tech, not somebody who is actually fighting big tech and bringing the creativity to bear that it's going to take to try to create equity and just a platform that is neutral for people to be able to engage.
[00:21:44]  I will cite one thing.
[00:21:45]  Recently, there was a Breitbart story about this where even Facebook executives and content moderators are confessing, well, the reason we have to clamp down so hard on right-wing populism is because it is so popular.
[00:21:58]  Because nothing drives more engagement, particularly on Facebook, than people talking about the MAGA doctrine issue set.
[00:22:06]  You know, ending endless wars, ensuring that we re-domesticate manufacturing, that we become the party of working people.
[00:22:14]  And because that's so popular, they go out of their way to suppress it even more.
[00:22:18]  So I would say to those who are listening to this podcast and around the country and around the conservative movement, let's actually back the real fighters, people like Josh Hawley.
[00:22:28]  I would say Senator Ted Cruz would be on that list, myself, and let's also be aware of those like Nikki Haley, who would just as soon be a valet for big tech than a competent adversary.
[00:22:38]  I think there's three issues, and they're not exclusive when it comes to big tech.
[00:22:42]  It's the censorship issue, it's the monopolization issue, and it's the addiction issue.
[00:22:47]  And I think that all three of those must be handled.
[00:22:51]  And so some people say they focus on the addiction issue.
[00:22:55]  This is what that new movie, Social Dilemma, heavily focuses on.
[00:23:00]  I actually think they did a really good job.
[00:23:01]  I don't know if you've seen it or not yet, Matt.
[00:23:03]  I deleted Netflix after they became a pedophile channel, but I got somebody else's login and I saw it.
[00:23:11]  And it was very well done.
[00:23:12]  And it was probably the best 75% of a documentary I've ever seen criticizing any sort of company.
[00:23:18]  I mean, they really thought about how they did it.
[00:23:20]  The last 25% of the film was not really great, but they didn't talk about once in the entire film dissident voices, dissident voices, I put in quotes, you know, people like you and I that believe in our country being censored, being shut up, being demonetized, digital assassinations.
[00:23:37]  They didn't mention that at all.
[00:23:38]  And they mentioned very little, just a very simple question.
[00:23:43]  Why should Google be worth $1.3 trillion in their market cap?
[00:23:49]  I understand that they have a really great search capacity.
[00:23:51]  They might be laying some fiber down driverless cars.
[00:23:55]  But in the landscape of rewarding value, is computer processing and having a better algorithm really where we want all of the capital flows in our country to be rewarding?
[00:24:07]  And we've had a hardware crisis of innovation the last couple decades where planes go almost the same speed, cars go marginally faster, yet computers are 1 trillion percent more efficient.
[00:24:18]  And what I'm afraid that we're doing is that we are rewarding these companies with hard-earned middle-class dollars that are migrating from building physical infrastructure and much-needed hardware advancements to a small select people of, first of all, they all hate our country.
[00:24:34]  They've all been educated at the universities that do not share our worldview, and they have so much power and wealth.
[00:24:40]  Can you just talk about this just strictly from an economic monopolization standpoint?
[00:24:44]  Because we as conservatives, we just like run away.
[00:24:46]  Like, oh, no, no company can ever be too big.
[00:24:48]  I'm like, no, actually, it can be too big.
[00:24:50]  Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't blame any business person who wants to be a monopoly.
[00:24:56]  All businesses should strive to be a monopoly, but statesmen should strive to bust them up when they aren't serving the interests of our country.
[00:25:05]  And that's what's happening right now with big tech.
[00:25:07]  Monopolies aren't just bad for America.
[00:25:10]  Over time, they actually become bad for the monopoly as well, because as you described, innovation is eroded, costs go up, and there's a lethargy that results from that.
[00:25:21]  Look back, look at the last big breakup.
[00:25:23]  I mean, when Bell broke up, what was the result?
[00:25:26]  More innovation, lower cost, more consumer access.
[00:25:30]  And so I think that we can benefit from these actions.
[00:25:34]  It's interesting.
[00:25:34]  I don't mean to interrupt, Matt.
[00:25:35]  I really don't.
[00:25:35]  I had a corporate think tank-funded person come up to me the other day, and he gets lots of money from big tech, right?
[00:25:40]  Just the same sort of system with the Congress people, right?
[00:25:42]  Just completely bought and paid for.
[00:25:44]  He might as well just wear a Google Blazer, right?
[00:25:47]  And so he said, no, no, no.
[00:25:48]  When we broke up Google, Google, when we broke up Bell, it was the worst thing ever.
[00:25:52]  Eight patents a day that we were getting.
[00:25:54]  It's some ridiculous thing.
[00:25:55]  I said, what are you talking about?
[00:25:56]  So they're already trying to rewrite this idea that the breakups have been anti-innovation.
[00:26:02]  And so can you lean into that more though, Matt?
[00:26:05]  Well, yeah, I mean, look at the video capacity.
[00:26:07]  Look at the lower price.
[00:26:09]  Look at the extended options.
[00:26:11]  That didn't happen previously.
[00:26:12]  And if you look at the innovation over the telecommunications space, it's not linear, right?
[00:26:16]  It's been exponential recently.
[00:26:18]  And that's because people have been out there trying to beat one another, provide services that the other did not.
[00:26:23]  I mean, the reason there's an LG phone, the reason there's a Samsung phone is because first there was an iPhone.
[00:26:28]  And if folks just had one particular communications vehicle or communications provider or telecom provider, you would not have had that opportunity for different options, different features, and more Americans working in that sector.
[00:26:42]  So I think that there are very few people that would want to go back to the days of Bell.
[00:26:46]  I think most of us would doubt whether or not Bell would have produced us the smartphone and some of the things that a lot of Americans, frankly, enjoy right now.
[00:26:54]  But look, I mean, where I think that that person may be right when they speak to you is that we've got to do a better job telling the story to Americans about how this impacts their lives, right?
[00:27:05]  When this is just like an esoteric intellectual discussion where, you know, we talk about, you know, monopolies and the other side talks about markets, it can get lost on the average person.

=== Why We Need Smartphones (09:28) ===

[00:27:16]  And the reason, you know, we're currently losing that debate and we've got to do more, when you survey the average American, survey the American people and say, do you trust Amazon to do the right thing?
[00:27:26]  86% say yes.
[00:27:29]  When they ask, do you trust Congress to do the right thing?
[00:27:32]  9% say yes.
[00:27:34]  And so I think that there are those who would, I think, maybe surrender to the big tech tyranny, but that is not how we advance a country.
[00:27:43]  And that's why our leadership has to do more.
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[00:28:53]  The favorability of Amazon is probably as high as it is because they all get their packages sent to them on time and they see some sort of value created, unlike Congress.
[00:29:02]  And Amazon generally does what they say they're going to do.
[00:29:05]  What they don't understand, though, is how Amazon has created a multi-dimensional economic empire that has no interest in middle-class workers in domesticating manufacturing, in allowing free and equal voices.
[00:29:22]  And Amazon Web Services is basically taking over the entire cloud computing landscape.
[00:29:29]  And Amazon's just one of the examples.
[00:29:31]  I think that we cannot become too broad in our indictment of big tech.
[00:29:35]  I think you need to find an enemy, isolate it, personalize it, polarize it, and defeat it.
[00:29:40]  I didn't come up with that.
[00:29:41]  Sawinsky did, but actually it works.
[00:29:44]  And I think rule number eight of Saelinski's rules for radicals is keep the pressure on.
[00:29:48]  I think we have to make Google the only one.
[00:29:50]  I think that if you get too broad...
[00:29:52]  One of the most dangerous.
[00:29:53]  So can you talk about that?
[00:29:54]  I think from a strategic standpoint, we make a mistake when we say big tech.
[00:29:58]  I do it too.
[00:29:58]  I think we have to find one company.
[00:30:02]  And then what will happen is the other companies will actually join you in that critique and criticism.
[00:30:07]  And in some ways, you can actually disrupt the landscape.
[00:30:10]  I think Google is more dangerous than all the other tech companies combined.
[00:30:13]  You might not agree with me on that, but based on what I've seen.
[00:30:16]  So please tell us what your thoughts on that.
[00:30:18]  So the reason what you've described, the reason that's hard is because when we see Twitter labeling the president, shadow banning myself, Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes, when we see Facebook taking content about coronavirus offline just because the Facebook moderators have determined that you shouldn't be able to decide the truth or falsity of that statement, it enrages us.
[00:30:40]  And we want to point to that and say this is wrong.
[00:30:41]  We have to fix it.
[00:30:42]  But Google is the biggest problem because it is the aggregator, essentially, the publisher, the distributor of most of the content that is consumed based on their dominance in search.
[00:30:53]  And so they can define who Charlie Kirk or Matt Gates are based on the first page of our Google search results.
[00:31:01]  Because if someone meets you, they're interested in your ideas.
[00:31:03]  Likely one of the first things they're going to do is Google you.
[00:31:05]  And so, you know, you could have the most glowing reviews, the best things written about you from widely distributed publications that millions of people have seen, but they'll go find that like tiny little left-wing magazine from nowhere, Illinois, and then say, aha, like this is the number one thing that people have to read about Charlie Kirk, and it is a distorted view.
[00:31:28]  It's why when we had all of the major big tech, the big four tech CEOs before the House Antitrust Subcommittee in Judiciary, I spent most of my time questioning Sundar Pachai, the CEO of the United States.
[00:31:39]  You did a great job, buddy.
[00:31:41]  Well, thank you.
[00:31:42]  One scene, one image that I just found was particularly noteworthy.
[00:31:45]  After Donald Trump wins the 2016 election, they all have a meeting in Sundar's office, the senior leadership of Google.
[00:31:52]  And the main topic of the meeting is what did we do wrong to allow Donald Trump to win?
[00:31:59]  And what can we do next time to ensure that he doesn't?
[00:32:02]  And why that's revealing is because it shows the low view that they have of democracy and the American people.
[00:32:08]  They don't think that this is a country where the people should get to vote and choose their leaders.
[00:32:13]  They think that they are the social, intellectual, technical elite, and that the people should only see what they want them to see and that they should really be making the decisions.
[00:32:22]  And so if the people disagree with their big tech overlords, that's not democracy working.
[00:32:27]  That's the overlords not using enough of their power.
[00:32:30]  And so now, you know, they're doing it a lot more.
[00:32:33]  Frankly, one of the things that still worries me about 2020, though I do think the president's going to win, is that we caught him by surprise in 2016.
[00:32:40]  I mean, they really didn't think Trump could win.
[00:32:42]  And so a lot of ways we were able to mobilize that silent majority, and we shocked the world.
[00:32:48]  I think it'll be less shocking when Donald Trump wins in 2020 because it'll be the second time, but it'll be facing far more substantial headwinds because I think they're putting their thumb on the scale a lot more.
[00:32:59]  I agree with that in part.
[00:33:01]  The part I'm not sure of is whether or not we'll surprise them or not.
[00:33:05]  They still seem incredibly confident they're going to win right now.
[00:33:08]  And so I don't know.
[00:33:09]  Maybe I'm wrong.
[00:33:10]  And so I think that when we talk about big tech, Apple can't be excluded from the conversation because they are very dangerous, the Apple News, App Store, and all of that.
[00:33:20]  My advice and my suggestion to people is you have to find a singular target or else they're all going to band together.
[00:33:25]  And the combined force of Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Google, I think is too big.
[00:33:31]  They actually are more solvent.
[00:33:32]  They're more powerful and they're better funded than our own government.
[00:33:36]  But if you find one, no, they are.
[00:33:38]  And they have more data.
[00:33:39]  But can they benefit out of that?
[00:33:41]  They're like fish in a school, right?
[00:33:42]  If you don't target one, sort of the school of fish can be disoriented.
[00:33:46]  That's right.
[00:33:46]  And so DAF, G-A-A-F, Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, their combined power, if they all realize that they're allies, not adversaries, I'm afraid that's what's going to happen if we don't single out the target, is that they will create their own kind of advocacy group.
[00:34:03]  They'll combine their best practices and they'll work in a collusion mindset.
[00:34:07]  I think that one thing we have to do is isolate one and turn them against each other.
[00:34:10]  I could be wrong.
[00:34:11]  That's a strategic point for you and I later.
[00:34:14]  Well, and I think that's true domestically.
[00:34:17]  But I also want to take a moment, Charlie, to talk about the way that foreign tech is impacting our security.
[00:34:23]  And I know you and I have both discussed this TikTok issue with the president.
[00:34:27]  I think we might have been the first ones to talk to him about what TikTok was.
[00:34:30]  I don't know that our young at heart, but still boomer in age president was a big TikTok guy before his time in public life.
[00:34:39]  But, you know, to me, a bad deal is worse than no deal.
[00:34:45]  Just kicking them out with no deal would be better than a bad deal that allows TikTok to continue to grow and serve China's strategic interests.
[00:34:53]  But I don't think we should stop there.
[00:34:55]  I think we should ban TikTok.
[00:34:56]  I think we should ban DJI drones, which are the Chinese drones that fly in our skies, often by our own law enforcement around our critical infrastructure.
[00:35:04]  That, by the way, our own Department of Homeland Security says is feeding stuff right back to the Chinese Communist Party.
[00:35:10]  And then also BGI genomics.
[00:35:12]  The Chinese are taking major positions in these companies that look at our ancestry and our DNA.
[00:35:19]  And certainly following the China virus, the last thing I want to see is the American genome or the genomes of any population of Americans sequenced and then isolated for vulnerability for the Chinese.
[00:35:32]  And so I think we need a far broader approach.
[00:35:34]  TikTok's a good start, but I wouldn't end there.
[00:35:40]  Look, you're probably listening.
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=== Winning Florida Again (09:24) ===

[00:36:45]  Kind of on that kind of foreign policy point, can you talk about ending the endless wars?
[00:36:49]  This is one of the things I am most supportive of in your commentary and your advocacy.
[00:36:56]  And when you publish writings or tweets, I'm so thrilled to see Republicans take a stand against the war machine.
[00:37:03]  You and I are not too dissimilar in age.
[00:37:07]  One of my earliest memories was 9-11 when I was in second grade seeing that happen.
[00:37:13]  From that point forward, I've known nothing but a nation at war.
[00:37:17]  And quite honestly, misdirected, misguided, endless nation building, not even war.
[00:37:23]  The U.S. military is the best at killing our enemies and breaking stuff.
[00:37:27]  We are not good at bringing Western values to theocratic Islamic dictatorships when they don't even want us there while we have our own suffering citizenry, bridges that can't be built, roads that can't be reconstructed, kids that cannot read, families that are falling apart.
[00:37:45]  And yet I have to be lectured by the Republicans in Congress that we need to have another 10-year extension so that we can make the Kandahar Valley a little bit safer.
[00:37:55]  Quite honestly, I am growing impatient with the war machine dominance on the Republican side.
[00:38:00]  Matt, what is your take?
[00:38:02]  Why do you believe that you believe on this?
[00:38:04]  And how can people, you know, basically help with it?
[00:38:07]  Yeah, I don't think we're radical to say that we should rebuild America before we rebuild Kandahar.
[00:38:12]  And we've got Republicans like Liz Cheney who've been in favor of like 10 out of the last three wars and who would like to start like four more of them before lunchtime tomorrow.
[00:38:22]  And I stand as a counterbalance to that.
[00:38:25]  And it's not that there aren't bullies in the world.
[00:38:28]  We're not Pollyanna.
[00:38:29]  We understand that there are bullies.
[00:38:31]  I think President Trump knows how to deal with a bully.
[00:38:34]  You punch him right in the nose and you give them a second thought before they ever mess with you again.
[00:38:39]  That's why the president was right to take out Soleimani.
[00:38:41]  It's why he was right to take the leader of al-Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula off the battlefield.
[00:38:47]  Yes, the whole deal.
[00:38:49]  But the prior generation of leadership from Obama, Bush, that whole crowd, they thought that the way to deal with a bully was to move into their house for 20 years, trying to realign their worldview.
[00:39:03]  And you're right, our generation has grown very weary of these endless wars.
[00:39:07]  And by the way, they have not just cost us a tremendous amount in treasure.
[00:39:12]  They have not cost us just amount.
[00:39:14]  And the most precious thing we have is the blood of our bravest patriots who wear the uniform.
[00:39:19]  It has also caused America to lose focus.
[00:39:21]  You know, while China has been building islands and skyscrapers and aircraft carriers and artificial intelligence and quantum computing capabilities, we've been out trying to build democracies with blood and sand and Arab militias together.
[00:39:40]  And it has been like trading the same villages back and forth in Afghanistan for 19 years, hoping that somehow that's going to result in a more stable country.
[00:39:52]  Afghanistan is not a stable country.
[00:39:54]  And you know what?
[00:39:55]  Those neocons who think that like we can just go to wherever Istan and set up America have too low of a view of what America is.
[00:40:05]  You know, this is not just a place or an idea or even a constitution.
[00:40:09]  We are a culture.
[00:40:10]  We are a people.
[00:40:11]  I think we are the most special country that has ever existed in all of human history.
[00:40:16]  And I don't much feel like apologizing for it.
[00:40:19]  And Americanism is not just something we can export willy-nilly.
[00:40:24]  You know, if people want freedom like Americans did, they're going to have to fight for it and die for it and bleed for it.
[00:40:31]  They're going to have to lose some of their fellow countrymen over it.
[00:40:33]  And they're going to have to tell stories about those heroes for generations so that no one can ever take that special freedom away.
[00:40:41]  And there's a parallel to what we see going on in America, Charlie, because the folks who do want to take America away, that's exactly what they're targeting.
[00:40:49]  They're targeting our heroes and those who fought and those who engaged in the spirit of revolution that created an American identity.
[00:40:55]  And so, look, I think we should always be the friend of freedom around the world.
[00:41:00]  I think the biggest threat to freedom is not like Russia.
[00:41:03]  I mean, it's China, right?
[00:41:04]  I mean, these boomers are trying to tell us that like we have to chase, wander around in the deserts of the Middle East and we have to go post up on Russia.
[00:41:11]  Russia's two biggest exports are oil and models.
[00:41:15]  And America has plenty of both.
[00:41:18]  Look around your house.
[00:41:19]  How much stuff was made in Russia?
[00:41:21]  Like not a whole lot of it, right?
[00:41:22]  It was made in China.
[00:41:23]  And I think that that's why positioning away from the trillions of dollars lost in these endless wars, the countless lives, precious lives that we've lost in the Middle East, transitioning away from that to a focused, determined effort to beat China for the 21st century, that is what ensures America's continued greatness for generations to come.
[00:41:47]  Well, Matt, I think you're articulating where the Republican Party needs to go in the future.
[00:41:50]  And President Trump has just opened up the space for this conversation.
[00:41:53]  And quite honestly, we're about a month from election day.
[00:41:57]  It's hard to say, but there will be a time, and President Trump has said it, where he won't be president.
[00:42:02]  And there will be an ideological vacuum.
[00:42:05]  Some say it might be a civil war in the Republican Party where the corporate types are going to try to take over again.
[00:42:10]  And they're going to try to tell us another six countries we have to invade.
[00:42:13]  They're going to try to tell us that we have to keep the social media tech oligarchs permanently powerful.
[00:42:18]  They're going to try to tell us to stop talking about the issues of life and social conservative values.
[00:42:25]  They're going to try to tell us that we need to have open borders.
[00:42:27]  And I think you are leading the charge also on the political corruption angle.
[00:42:32]  So, Matt, the final question I have here is, can you just give us some insight into the election?
[00:42:36]  You represent Florida.
[00:42:37]  I'm also a Florida resident.
[00:42:39]  I came to Florida for a reason.
[00:42:40]  0% income tax, a great governor, people like you that love their country.
[00:42:45]  Is Trump going to win Florida?
[00:42:46]  Is Trump going to win the presidency?
[00:42:47]  What are you seeing?
[00:42:48]  What are you hearing?
[00:42:49]  Give us your insight.
[00:42:51]  The president's looking real good in Florida.
[00:42:53]  Charlie, about 1,100 people every day move to our state.
[00:42:57]  We're real glad you're one of them.
[00:42:58]  We're proud to count you a fellow Florida man, if you will.
[00:43:02]  That's right.
[00:43:02]  But that's not by accident.
[00:43:04]  It's because in Florida, we've essentially had one party rule for a generation in our government.
[00:43:09]  From Jeb Bush's time till now, there hasn't been a Democrat governor.
[00:43:13]  There hasn't been a Democrat majority in either House.
[00:43:16]  And so it's a perfect experiment to show what happens when you cut taxes, have a strong education system, the right-sized environmental regulations.
[00:43:24]  People actually want to be there and they want to bring their ideas and their capital and their love for our country.
[00:43:30]  And so I think that that immigration into Florida for people who want to see that type of worldview play out in their government has helped the president.
[00:43:41]  I actually predict, you know, the president won Florida by about 130,000 votes in 2016.
[00:43:45]  I think he will win Florida by more than that now.
[00:43:48]  Another county to watch on election night, Miami-Dade County.
[00:43:52]  Usually this is a huge reservoir of votes for Democrats, but what we're starting to see is that these Hispanics, many of whom are not more than a generation or two removed from like real socialism, not like hacky sack, drum circle socialism, but like no bread and no medicine socialism in the old country.
[00:44:10]  They're not signing up for the Biden-Harris woketopia.
[00:44:14]  They're not signing up for the policies of Portland and San Francisco to be metastasized around the country.
[00:44:20]  President Trump will do better with Hispanics, I think, than any Republican even since George W. Bush.
[00:44:28]  George W. Bush did very well with Hispanics.
[00:44:30]  I think Trump could do even better.
[00:44:32]  And I think it's because they're voting against the woketopia.
[00:44:36]  I think that is very well put.
[00:44:37]  And boy, do we need to win Florida.
[00:44:40]  The book is Firebrand.
[00:44:41]  Everyone, pick up a copy.
[00:44:42]  Matt is one of the good guys.
[00:44:43]  I don't say that very often.
[00:44:45]  We talk about all the things that we're against on our show very much, and we talk about things that we're for, but it's good to see someone fighting for the right things, not taking the corporate money, not taking the lobbyist money.
[00:44:54]  And if everyone's listening to this, they should just take a pause and say, why is my congressman taking money from lobbyists?
[00:45:00]  That's a good question to ask them.
[00:45:02]  And use Matt Gates as the example that they don't have to.
[00:45:06]  Ending the wars, holding these tech giants accountable, believing in our country, defending the American history and culture, as you mentioned.
[00:45:16]  And I think articulating a vision for the party.
[00:45:18]  Very well put, Matt.
[00:45:19]  Firebrand, check it out right now.
[00:45:22]  Let's make it a bestseller.
[00:45:23]  Thanks so much, Matt, for joining.
[00:45:25]  Thank you, Charlie.
[00:45:26]  See you soon.
[00:45:29]  What a great conversation that was with Matt Gates.
[00:45:32]  Please email us your questions: freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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[00:46:07]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:46:09]  God bless.