The Charlie Kirk Show - When Should Christians Rebel with Rob McCoy
Aired: 2020-07-26
Duration: 34:11


=== Special Sunday Message (02:10) ===

[00:00:00]  Thank you for listening to this Podcast 1 production.
[00:00:02]  Now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast 1, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
[00:00:08]  Hey, everybody.
[00:00:08]  Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, we have a special Sunday message with my pastor, Pastor Rob McCoy.
[00:00:13]  To Christians out there, but also, is your life lacking meaning?
[00:00:19]  Are you wondering why you should even continue on this experience called life?
[00:00:24]  We've got a lot of emails of people like that.
[00:00:25]  Well, I highly encourage you to listen to this podcast.
[00:00:29]  And I think you'll be able to derive a lot of benefit from it.
[00:00:31]  I want to thank those of you that help keep our podcast on the weekends advertiser free by going to charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:37]  It's charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:39]  Please become a monthly supporter at charliekirk.com slash support.
[00:00:43]  Email us your thoughts at freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:00:48]  And please consider getting involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.
[00:00:53]  Special Sunday message for you.
[00:00:55]  You're going to love it.
[00:00:56]  Pastor Rob McCoy is here.
[00:00:57]  Buckle up, everybody.
[00:00:58]  Here we go.
[00:01:00]  Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
[00:01:01]  Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
[00:01:03]  I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
[00:01:07]  Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
[00:01:10]  I want to thank Charlie.
[00:01:11]  He's an incredible guy.
[00:01:12]  His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
[00:01:21]  We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
[00:01:29]  That's why we are here.
[00:01:31]  Hey, everybody.
[00:01:32]  Welcome to this special episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, which will also be, let's say, simulcast on our live stream for Godspeak.
[00:01:39]  So let's say hi to everybody.
[00:01:41]  So this will be an episode on the Charlie Kirk Show and Godspeak live stream Godspeak.
[00:01:45]  Yeah, and exciting because we're getting a lot of folks tuning in.
[00:01:49]  And being in Phoenix, the chance was I wasn't going to be able to do this, but you made it possible and all the folks are stoked.
[00:01:55]  Every time you're on, readings go through the roof.
[00:01:57]  So thank you.
[00:01:58]  I don't know about that.
[00:02:00]  I'm a member of your church, technically.
[00:02:02]  You are.
[00:02:03]  So I finally found a church that fights.
[00:02:05]  So California, they're closing down again.
[00:02:08]  They are.
[00:02:09]  Gavin Newsom, give us the update.

=== Godspeak Live Stream (02:44) ===

[00:02:10]  So Governor Nussalini is now.
[00:02:15]  So he was saying that we couldn't sing and we could only have 100 people or 25%, which was whatever was left.
[00:02:23]  You could go to church, but you can't sing.
[00:02:24]  And you couldn't have more than 100 people.
[00:02:27]  And you had to wear masks and practice social distancing.
[00:02:30]  And so they work hard to do that.
[00:02:33]  And then he does the edict of saying for a minimum of three weeks, there will be no houses of worship permitted to meet inside.
[00:02:41]  Shut it all down.
[00:02:43]  And have you been obeying that command?
[00:02:46]  No.
[00:02:47]  You've been open fully.
[00:02:49]  Yep, fully open.
[00:02:50]  We didn't obey the social distancing.
[00:02:53]  Now, let me correct that.
[00:02:55]  As you know, we did Palm Sunday communion.
[00:02:58]  That was outrageously over the top.
[00:03:00]  Yeah.
[00:03:00]  So our sanctuary holds about 500 people.
[00:03:03]  We had 10 chairs.
[00:03:04]  And press came out, media as though we were killing everybody.
[00:03:08]  And it was cleaner than any other place in all of California.
[00:03:14]  And our point was, you've declared us non-essential, but you allow cannabis distributors and liquor stores and strip clubs in New York.
[00:03:22]  Although he doesn't have jurisdiction over that, it's just a nationwide democracy.
[00:03:27]  So we declared, especially in our Holy Week, that this was critical.
[00:03:30]  And communion is a sacrament to us.
[00:03:33]  So we practiced it.
[00:03:34]  We practiced CDC standards, social distancing.
[00:03:36]  We did everything necessary.
[00:03:37]  We didn't know the data on the virus, and we were following all protocols.
[00:03:42]  And it was the way we were, to the press's credit, they treated it fairly.
[00:03:47]  They showed that we were going all out.
[00:03:50]  And then when the governor did the social distancing mandate, we abided by that for one reason.
[00:03:57]  Our sheriff is a good guy, and they were having to send officers into Los Angeles because that's when the Black Lives Matter riots were occurring.
[00:04:05]  And so they were undermanned.
[00:04:07]  And the last thing they needed was all the folks calling in with complaints, wanting to send officers out to shut us down.
[00:04:12]  And I told the sheriff, I said, You don't have to worry about us.
[00:04:14]  We'll be following protocols.
[00:04:16]  But then when the governor came out and quoted saying, God bless you to the Black Lives Matter protesters and empowered them and didn't enforce any of the rules for them, hundreds of thousands of people rioting.
[00:04:30]  That was it.
[00:04:30]  It was over.
[00:04:33]  You have no leg to stand on to shut the churches, but permit that.
[00:04:37]  Look, you're actually a fighter.
[00:04:39]  You actually stand and fight.
[00:04:41]  Amen.
[00:04:43]  The Apostle Paul says, stand fast, therefore, in the liberty for which Christ has set you free.
[00:04:47]  So some Christians that I communicate with, they say, I can't rebel against government because of Romans 13.

=== Romans 13 and Authority (15:25) ===

[00:04:55]  First, tell us what Romans 13 is.
[00:04:57]  Romans 13, unless you had another question.
[00:05:00]  And then just tell us why that is incorrectly applied to the United States of America.
[00:05:04]  Sure.
[00:05:04]  So Romans 13, we can read it in its entirety, but just from the top of my mind, you're to respect all positions of authority.
[00:05:11]  They're appointed by God.
[00:05:12]  And that is our calling.
[00:05:14]  The Apostle Paul writes that in Romans 13, that these authorities are appointed by God and we're to respect that.
[00:05:20]  And then it goes on to say that they don't carry the sword in vain.
[00:05:24]  They're ministers of justice to execute wrath on those who would do evil.
[00:05:27]  So they carry this authority.
[00:05:30]  And I read that just like any other pastor does, and I'm in full agreement with it.
[00:05:34]  But where the pastors in America don't realize, because we've abdicated our responsibility in the public square and we haven't embraced nor educated ourselves on the gift we've been given of a constitutional republic, when reading Romans 13, and it speaks of the authority, pastors don't realize that that authority is already outlined in the first three words of the preamble of the Constitution.
[00:05:54]  We the people, we the people, we the people are the authority in America.
[00:06:00]  And legislators govern by our consent.
[00:06:03]  Who was the authority when Paul wrote that?
[00:06:05]  Nero.
[00:06:06]  He was a less than desirable emperor.
[00:06:08]  Less than desirable emperor.
[00:06:10]  But however, the misunderstanding of that is they said Nero was burning Christians at the stake.
[00:06:16]  Well, he did later in his age.
[00:06:17]  Not at the moment.
[00:06:18]  Not when Paul wrote that.
[00:06:20]  He was very open to allowing Jews to once again obtain property.
[00:06:24]  Christians were permitted to assemble.
[00:06:26]  He had just stepped into office.
[00:06:27]  Christianity was kind of a fringe religion.
[00:06:30]  Exactly.
[00:06:31]  At the time.
[00:06:33]  These sort of religions, I shouldn't say traditions of Judaism were popping up, nothing close to Christianity eventually, but the Romans didn't take it that seriously at the writings of Paul's letter to the Romans.
[00:06:47]  And I believe he actually hadn't even visited Rome when he actually wrote the letter.
[00:06:50]  Yeah.
[00:06:51]  Well, no, Paul had, I don't think he had made it to Rome.
[00:06:54]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:06:55]  Yeah, he had been there.
[00:06:56]  So he couldn't even comprehensively have understood.
[00:07:00]  Thank you.
[00:07:02]  The weight of Roman rule there.
[00:07:05]  And Nero wasn't even the Nero that we know now, which fiddled when Rome burned.
[00:07:09]  And Paul, Paul appreciated his Roman citizenship and appealed by his Roman citizenship.
[00:07:14]  So he understood government.
[00:07:16]  But what's interesting is we have the Jews that three to five million of them end up in the wilderness.
[00:07:22]  They put the law in the center of their community.
[00:07:24]  400 years without 430 years after Abraham was saved by grace, which is outlined in Romans.
[00:07:30]  And he believed God was accredited him as righteousness.
[00:07:33]  430 years later, they give the law.
[00:07:34]  They put the law in the center of the community.
[00:07:36]  When Paul, excuse me, when Moses comes down Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments and Aaron and everybody is having a party and they've got rave music and it's bumping.
[00:07:43]  Golden calf, right?
[00:07:44]  Golden calf.
[00:07:44]  Golden calf.
[00:07:45]  Rave music.
[00:07:46]  Yeah.
[00:07:48]  Anyways, he comes down and sets them straight and brings this moral law, this moral knowledge, becomes the center of the community.
[00:07:55]  Stop doing that.
[00:07:56]  First five commandments, relationship with God, second five commandments, relationship with each other.
[00:08:00]  As they implement that in the culture, for 40 years, three to five million people lived together without a police force or standing army because they had moral knowledge.
[00:08:10]  That's the critical component.
[00:08:12]  And then Jethro says to Moses, you can't do all this.
[00:08:15]  So he appoints godly men who are not covetous, who fear the Lord, over thousands, hundreds, fifties, tens.
[00:08:20]  That's where you get federal, state, county, local government, representative form of government.
[00:08:24]  Are you trying to say that these ideas just didn't come out of that they're actually tried before?
[00:08:28]  Well, even the three branches of government come out of Isaiah.
[00:08:32]  God is our king, our lawgiver, and our judge, executive, legislative, judicial.
[00:08:36]  And the founders were godly Bible-believing men.
[00:08:39]  Absolutely.
[00:08:40]  And anyone who says otherwise hasn't done their homework.
[00:08:42]  Are Christians meant to be pacifists?
[00:08:45]  No.
[00:08:45]  Why?
[00:08:46]  We're contending.
[00:08:47]  Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, but a sword.
[00:08:50]  And peace isn't the absence of conflict or the absence of danger.
[00:08:54]  Peace is the presence of Christ in the midst of it.
[00:08:57]  So anyone who says that we're not supposed to rebel against authorities, I just have one question for pastors out there.
[00:09:03]  Was Rosa Parks supposed to get to the back of the bus?
[00:09:07]  Pausing for emphasis.
[00:09:10]  Answer that.
[00:09:11]  For all those out there who have your Black Lives Matter tiles, was Rosa Parks supposed to get to the back of the bus?
[00:09:15]  Yes or no?
[00:09:17]  They would probably say she did the right thing.
[00:09:19]  She did do the right thing.
[00:09:20]  Absolutely.
[00:09:21]  And so did Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King.
[00:09:22]  He did the right thing.
[00:09:23]  So did our founders.
[00:09:24]  They did the right thing.
[00:09:26]  Government was given by God in the Noahic covenant for the preservation of what is the Noah covenant.
[00:09:32]  Noahic covenant is where you see Noah and God speaks of capital punishment.
[00:09:36]  He goes through a list of these things.
[00:09:37]  It's the first time you have civil laws established with one of the patriarchs.
[00:09:42]  This was prior to Abraham.
[00:09:43]  Yeah, this was prior to Abraham.
[00:09:44]  He comes off the ark.
[00:09:45]  God lays it out.
[00:09:46]  So we start to operate in that capacity.
[00:09:49]  And God designs government.
[00:09:52]  He gives us the law.
[00:09:53]  And the law is simply how do we live together?
[00:09:56]  But now Christians have relegated the law because we're so we've caused the gospel to be truncated and myopic where we say, this is the purpose of the church.
[00:10:06]  I preach the gospel.
[00:10:07]  I preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
[00:10:10]  In Ephesians, you've been saved by grace through faith.
[00:10:12]  It's a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
[00:10:15]  If you believe in your heart, confess with your tongue, Jesus is Lord.
[00:10:17]  You will be saved to the glory of the Father.
[00:10:19]  So if you've done that, could you raise your hand?
[00:10:20]  God bless you.
[00:10:20]  I see your hand.
[00:10:21]  Boom, my job's done.
[00:10:23]  Now, he does say not make converts, but make disciples.
[00:10:25]  And then they go on to teach them, you know, different aspects of Christianity and justification, sanctification.
[00:10:32]  But the problem is, Christians don't know what to do with the law.
[00:10:35]  They say, bro, we're saved by grace.
[00:10:37]  We don't need the law.
[00:10:37]  The law is only there to show us we can't keep it so that we need grace.
[00:10:40]  No, no.
[00:10:42]  That's a part of it.
[00:10:43]  And the law doesn't save.
[00:10:44]  I agree.
[00:10:45]  I'm not arguing that.
[00:10:47]  But if Abraham believed God and it was accredited to him as righteousness, and the same thing applies in Ephesians chapter 2, why 430 years later would God give the law?
[00:10:57]  He gave the law so that we could live together.
[00:11:01]  How do we dwell together?
[00:11:02]  As Francis Schaefer in his book said, how then shall we now live?
[00:11:07]  And they lived together for 40 years without a police force or a standing army because they know you don't steal, you don't lie, you don't covet.
[00:11:14]  And they self-regulated, right?
[00:11:15]  And they self-regulate it.
[00:11:16]  So when someone comes to me and says, well, socialism is closer to the gospel than capitalism or a constitutional republic, I go, wait a minute.
[00:11:25]  Socialism is a violation of two of the Ten Commandments.
[00:11:27]  Thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not covet.
[00:11:30]  And that's right there in the Levitical law, in the Ten Commandments, the Decalogue.
[00:11:37]  So when God gives this law, he does it so we can dwell together.
[00:11:41]  And then Paul goes on to write in Galatians, and I love this because you are so gifted in applying this.
[00:11:48]  And I don't know that a lot of pastors across the country understand the role God's given you.
[00:11:54]  Galatians 3 points out, why then do we have the law?
[00:11:57]  And Paul eloquently says the law, Galatians 3, 20, I think it is, Paul eloquently says the law is a guardian, a school teacher, to point us to Christ and to keep us safe until faith comes.
[00:12:14]  And then when faith comes, you're no longer under the law.
[00:12:17]  You're governed by love, by grace.
[00:12:20]  You don't do it because you have to.
[00:12:21]  You do it because you want to.
[00:12:23]  But in society, laws are there, whether you like it or not.
[00:12:27]  You have to obey this.
[00:12:28]  But those laws point you to Christ.
[00:12:30]  As our founder said, the laws of nature and nature is God.
[00:12:32]  It doesn't matter if you're an agnostic or an atheist or a Christian.
[00:12:36]  You're still bound by the natural law of gravity.
[00:12:40]  There's an order to the universe.
[00:12:43]  And so our founders understood that.
[00:12:45]  They didn't force religion onto people, but they did declare that we are under a creator and there is an absolute natural and moral law that we are to abide by.
[00:12:55]  So when is it the right time or the wrong time for Christians to rebel against authority?
[00:13:01]  That's a good one.
[00:13:02]  So as our founder said, not by light or transient causes.
[00:13:06]  You don't just say, you know, I'm throwing off these restraints.
[00:13:09]  I don't want to pay taxes or I don't want to do this or I don't want to do that.
[00:13:12]  Understood.
[00:13:13]  It's real simple for me.
[00:13:15]  Anyone wants to get in the way of my relationship with God and stifle that in a constitutional republic that gives us the First Amendment, that is a constitutional protection, and I'll go through that more later.
[00:13:28]  You better have really good reason.
[00:13:29]  And for us as a church, we yielded to the requests of the governor during a pandemic, not knowing the full details of the virus itself or how tenacious it was.
[00:13:40]  And so we yielded willingly as a wife submits to her husband, not because she has to, but because she wants to and she willingly does.
[00:13:48]  That's what the church did in relation to the governor.
[00:13:50]  You can't force me to do that, but I'm willingly doing it for the sake of the community.
[00:13:55]  Now when we have the empirical data and we know that this virus has a 99.8% survival rate.
[00:14:02]  And it's probably going to go even in the better direction as more people just ask that.
[00:14:06]  In 45 and under, it's zero.
[00:14:08]  But of course, we just see all the skewed numbers.
[00:14:10]  And then you start getting censorship and they start messing with the data.
[00:14:14]  At that point, you realize this has nothing to do with the safety and the health of the community.
[00:14:19]  You are stifling religious freedom and you don't have that authority.
[00:14:24]  We're done now.
[00:14:24]  We're going back to what we've been given by those in authority, submitting to Romans 13 by our religious liberty, that nothing comes in the way of us worshiping God, period.
[00:14:37]  So if we were...
[00:14:40]  So how do you interpret Romans 13 if you live in China?
[00:14:43]  Yeah.
[00:14:45]  So in China, they're trying to stay alive.
[00:14:49]  And you do your best.
[00:14:52]  And it's one of those things that we rise and fall before.
[00:14:54]  You understand the example.
[00:14:55]  I do.
[00:14:55]  China, North Korea, Iran.
[00:14:57]  I got it.
[00:14:57]  You rise and fall before one master.
[00:14:59]  That's the Lord.
[00:15:00]  So when the Apostle Paul is contending with Rome and Rome has its literal knee on the neck of Christians and a third of the Roman Empire is slaves.
[00:15:10]  And just like the three to five million Jews who are enslaved in Egypt, they cry out because liberty is intrinsic in every human heart.
[00:15:16]  So the Apostle Paul declares in the book of Galatians, chapter 5, stand fast, therefore, in the liberty for which Christ has set you free.
[00:15:24]  He wrote that from prison.
[00:15:26]  He's still contending with government.
[00:15:28]  He would contend with the government on the island of Cyprus.
[00:15:31]  He would contend with the government in Rome.
[00:15:34]  He would contend with the government in Ephesus.
[00:15:36]  He was always contending for the liberty of mankind and the freedom for them to have an open, abiding relationship with the Lord.
[00:15:43]  Now, it's going to come at a cost.
[00:15:45]  Paul's imprisoned.
[00:15:46]  But the amazing thing about the early church, especially in Acts 5 and 6, is that when they were told to shut up and not preach the gospel and then threatened, and then after they were threatened, they were beaten.
[00:15:58]  And after they were beaten, they plotted to kill them.
[00:16:00]  And they ultimately stoned Stephen.
[00:16:01]  And Paul was the one who condoned it and held the cloaks and then went on to pursue to kill Christians.
[00:16:09]  They didn't waver.
[00:16:11]  Even under that threat, they went back and they said to God, look on their threats.
[00:16:16]  Don't silence them.
[00:16:18]  But God, give us a greater boldness to proclaim this truth because you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free.
[00:16:24]  It boils down to this, the Imago Day.
[00:16:26]  We're created in the image of God.
[00:16:28]  And laws are established, the wise restraints that make men free.
[00:16:32]  As we restrain towards evil, we have the ability to pursue excellence.
[00:16:36]  And we want us to experience the fullness for what God created us to enjoy.
[00:16:41]  And if we're subject to those things that enslave us, whether it's drugs or alcohol or sexual deviance or any of those things, a society grows great when it allows its citizens to have the freedom to pursue excellence.
[00:16:55]  But if they think that freedom is everyone having equal, then you have stifled the creativity of mankind.
[00:17:03]  And all of us are walking around as automatons, dressing the same, and it is just misery.
[00:17:10]  It divides wealth and divides happiness to the point where no one has any of it.
[00:17:15]  God never intended that.
[00:17:17]  Even capitalism is scriptural.
[00:17:20]  You've eloquently defended that in a profound way.
[00:17:23]  I think about what I don't.
[00:17:28]  Romans 13, I read a little bit differently.
[00:17:31]  And I also, I just come from the broader reading that Christ and Christians should not tolerate tyranny or the exploitation of the innocent in any form.
[00:17:45]  And so that's why I struggle at times with Romans 13 and any reading of it, because I just don't think the CCP is a legitimate government.
[00:17:51]  No, it's not.
[00:17:52]  And so I think it's perfectly Christian and acceptable to rebel against the CCP.
[00:17:57]  And with that.
[00:17:58]  And it might become in conflict with Romans 13, but it won't.
[00:18:02]  God is in the business of setting the captives free.
[00:18:05]  It will come at a cost.
[00:18:07]  So who am I to judge another man's servant?
[00:18:09]  If I look at my brother in China who has to choose the hills that they're going to die on, and they're meeting in churches that are underground, they're not meeting in those churches and underground because they're fearful and lack faith.
[00:18:22]  They are counting the cost to see, is the return on investment to live another day?
[00:18:27]  And every day they're having to make those choices and decisions.
[00:18:30]  I think, I mean, based on what Christ called us to do and the early church, I think there is, putting Romans 13 aside, a continual pattern of fighting for free expression, for liberty.
[00:18:45]  And also, as Bill Federer says, most important thing you can do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
[00:18:51]  The second most important thing is make sure you could do the first thing.
[00:18:54]  Right.
[00:18:54]  Protect the government that protects the preaching of that gospel.
[00:18:56]  So I don't think it is in the best interest of the kingdom or Christianity or for what is moral, what is good, and what is true to allow tyrants to rule.
[00:19:04]  Absolutely.
[00:19:05]  Anyone who wants to slay...
[00:19:06]  Reinhoffer would agree with that.
[00:19:07]  He would totally agree.
[00:19:09]  And try to put that into a Google and come up with an answer where you have an evangelical minister plotting to assassinate Hitler.
[00:19:18]  Hitler.
[00:19:18]  And he said it was perfectly consistent with the Bible.
[00:19:21]  But what he also said was, that's my calling.
[00:19:24]  I don't expect anyone to understand that.
[00:19:28]  But he labored over that because if he could put a wrench in the spokes of that machinery and stop the slaughter of what would ultimately be over 6 million Jews and countless others throughout the world, he would do it.
[00:19:42]  And God would commend that.
[00:19:44]  And this pacifist idea that we don't confront evil or stand in opposition to it is just not biblical.
[00:19:50]  I'm sorry.
[00:19:51]  So if it's okay, let's get into some theological questions.
[00:19:55]  We've never had a chance to do this on the podcast before.
[00:19:58]  Are you a Calvinist?
[00:19:59]  No.
[00:20:00]  So explain what a Calvinist is.
[00:20:03]  A Calvinist, a simple way to do it, although Calvinists would probably struggle over it, understanding.
[00:20:08]  And by the way, Calvinists are my brothers.
[00:20:10]  I love them.
[00:20:10]  Brothers and sisters.
[00:20:11]  I bring this up because I got recently.
[00:20:13]  I understand.
[00:20:14]  I get it too.
[00:20:16]  So there's an acronym called Tulip that gives you an idea of what Calvinism is.

=== Rejecting Limited Atonement (09:32) ===

[00:20:21]  T is total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and preservation of the saints.
[00:20:27]  And some people say I'm a four-point Calvinist.
[00:20:30]  Others say I'm a five-point Calvinist.
[00:20:32]  And in that succession.
[00:20:33]  In that succession.
[00:20:34]  So Calvin started, he had an attorney's mind.
[00:20:37]  He started with the idea that he's actually working backwards, preservation of the saints.
[00:20:41]  How do you get to that place of being preserved as a saint?
[00:20:45]  And so eternal life?
[00:20:46]  Or does he mean how do you become one of the redeemed?
[00:20:49]  Or the elect.
[00:20:50]  The elect.
[00:20:51]  So he works backwards.
[00:20:53]  He starts with a premise, this is preservation of the saints.
[00:20:56]  And so if we have total depravity, it has to begin, all of us are depraved.
[00:21:00]  There's none righteous, no, not one, for all have sinned, fallen short of the glory of God.
[00:21:03]  I'm in on that one.
[00:21:04]  Unconditional election.
[00:21:06]  God chooses whom he chooses.
[00:21:07]  Jacob I loved, Esau, I hated.
[00:21:09]  He can pick anyone he wants because we're all totally depraved.
[00:21:12]  Now, if he picks certain ones and doesn't pick others, then Jesus' death on the cross wasn't for all the world's sin, as it says in John 3:16, for God so loved the world that he was where I struggle.
[00:21:22]  And rightfully so.
[00:21:24]  So his death on the cross, the atoning death, was limited only to those he chose by unconditional election.
[00:21:33]  And limited atonement.
[00:21:35]  So how does he get them then to come to Christ if we're all sinners?
[00:21:39]  Irresistible grace.
[00:21:41]  He imputes that to us, so we're drawn to him.
[00:21:44]  So we have no choice in the matter.
[00:21:46]  He takes it completely out of man's hands and puts it into God's hands.
[00:21:49]  And I understand that because he's dealing with a church in Rome that was selling indulgences, and he just, he wanted to make purity of the gospel and put it in the sovereign hands of God.
[00:21:58]  Fair enough.
[00:22:00]  I'm not an Arminius.
[00:22:02]  I'm not a Calvinist.
[00:22:04]  I am what I consider myself to be a biblicist.
[00:22:06]  And I'm sure there's theologians out there far more educated that would obliterate me and put me in a category.
[00:22:12]  I'm a simple.
[00:22:13]  I don't like all these subcategories anyway.
[00:22:16]  And that's all right.
[00:22:16]  I know who I am, and I know what I do.
[00:22:19]  I don't believe in limited atonement.
[00:22:21]  I don't believe the scripture speaks to limited atonement.
[00:22:23]  I do believe God's completely sovereign.
[00:22:25]  And then the question is: how can God be sovereign and man have a choice?
[00:22:29]  I have no idea.
[00:22:30]  I don't know how to explain a God who's beyond space and time, who's omniscient, to a temporal mind.
[00:22:43]  I can't even explain the Trinity, how God can be one and be three and speak to himself and answer himself, but he's still one.
[00:22:49]  And he's three different persons, but he's one God.
[00:22:52]  I can't even give an earthly illustration for that.
[00:22:54]  But the scriptures speak to it.
[00:22:56]  And my life has testified to it.
[00:22:58]  And I've seen that God is relational and I love the Godhead.
[00:23:02]  So it's man's attempt to try to take a sovereign God, retain the sovereignty, and then thinking, well, how can man have a free will?
[00:23:11]  But yet God has given us the ability to choose.
[00:23:13]  Love is a choice.
[00:23:14]  So that's where I've come to a conclusion on that.
[00:23:18]  I went through the Calvinist phase.
[00:23:19]  I went through the Arminius phase.
[00:23:20]  What's Arminiast?
[00:23:21]  Arminian is this.
[00:23:23]  Not Armenia.
[00:23:24]  No, not Armenian.
[00:23:25]  One is a.
[00:23:27]  I had a pastor friend who was just a precious brother.
[00:23:30]  He said, Arminian is a superior theology, and he was also Armenian.
[00:23:33]  And he said, Armenian is a superior ethnicity.
[00:23:35]  That's funny.
[00:23:36]  Yeah, it was.
[00:23:37]  Don't tell the Turks.
[00:23:38]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:23:39]  Although there's some godly Turks out there that would, they love Armenians.
[00:23:44]  So Arminian is more of looking at the free will of man and it limits the sovereignty of God.
[00:23:51]  And those are the two camps.
[00:23:52]  I'm in the middle.
[00:23:54]  Got it.
[00:23:54]  Yeah.
[00:23:55]  So there's a growing, I think, frustration in the church now.
[00:24:00]  And a lot of Christians email me and email us at freedom at charliekirk.com to say, what do I do if my pastor is engaging in this nonsense, BLM Inc., the racial disunity?
[00:24:12]  What should they do?
[00:24:12]  Yeah, vote with your feet.
[00:24:14]  Leave.
[00:24:15]  Leave.
[00:24:16]  I would appeal.
[00:24:18]  I would be patient and long-suffering.
[00:24:20]  I would contend for the truth.
[00:24:23]  I would pray for him.
[00:24:25]  I would seek to inspire him.
[00:24:27]  I would educate him.
[00:24:30]  I would do all those things.
[00:24:33]  You brought up Calvinism, and I like this because it's a good illustration.
[00:24:38]  Calvary chapels are not Calvinist, but they love, Calvinists love our worship and they love our evangelistic approach.
[00:24:44]  We've had 10,000% growth since 1968.
[00:24:47]  We're all about evangelism.
[00:24:48]  Greg Laurie started with the Calvary Chapels.
[00:24:50]  I think he's now affiliated with the Baptists, but he would do the Harvest Crusades.
[00:24:56]  So we're all about evangelism.
[00:24:58]  Calvinists, there's really, you can't go up and say to somebody as a real true five-point Calvinist, you can't say God loves you because that's not true.
[00:25:06]  You may not be one of the chosen.
[00:25:08]  And by the way, when the scripture says in Romans, Jacob I loved, Esau I hated, that was written in Romans.
[00:25:13]  That was after Jacob and Esau died.
[00:25:15]  And the Bible says it's appointed once for man to die, then judgment.
[00:25:17]  Paul could write that, but it wasn't declared in the Old Testament.
[00:25:24]  So the idea to be able to say to someone, God loves you, you can't say that as a Calvinist.
[00:25:28]  So it makes it difficult for evangelism and Calvinism.
[00:25:32]  It's kind of heady.
[00:25:33]  It's a hard sell.
[00:25:36]  It's difficult.
[00:25:37]  It's like being a Republican.
[00:25:40]  It requires logic.
[00:25:42]  So they'll come to our church and I'll say, look, if you're Calvinist, I'm thrilled you're here.
[00:25:47]  But we're not.
[00:25:49]  And we're not interested in being Calvinists.
[00:25:52]  But worship, enjoy it.
[00:25:54]  Know that we're going to teach the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book.
[00:25:58]  Stay with us.
[00:25:59]  But I'm not interested in dividing the church.
[00:26:02]  You know what we're about.
[00:26:04]  And they, oh, praise the Lord, brother, we're not going to do that.
[00:26:06]  Every single time I've had an issue, not every single time.
[00:26:08]  There's some Calvinists out there.
[00:26:10]  They keep to their word.
[00:26:12]  But inevitably, over the 20-plus years of ministry, that's been a struggle.
[00:26:16]  And I say that because folks who bring in this Trojan horse and then they want to go with their agenda.
[00:26:28]  And that's troublesome because that's what we're facing right now in the church.
[00:26:34]  I don't want the people that are confronting their pastor to drive an agenda with a pastor who already has a direction.
[00:26:41]  Either agree to disagree and remain with him and endeavor to keep the union of the spirit in the bond of peace or quietly leave and go start something else.
[00:26:50]  Yes.
[00:26:51]  Because that pastor may not be a fighter, may not be called to that capacity, but the bride of Christ, the church is a multifaceted diamond.
[00:27:04]  And we all have a different facet on that.
[00:27:06]  Yeah, I'm a fighter.
[00:27:07]  That's my facet.
[00:27:10]  But don't divide the bride.
[00:27:14]  Don't attack the church.
[00:27:15]  Now, granted, if it's heretical, granted, like in the book of Acts where you have Ananias and Sapphira, you need to point out those who are deceptive.
[00:27:27]  You have to mark those who cause division and have nothing to do with them, the scripture says.
[00:27:31]  So that's important in a church.
[00:27:34]  And then if Satan can't attack the church from the outside, he tries to infiltrate it with deception on the inside.
[00:27:40]  And if he can't do that, he tries to divide the church.
[00:27:42]  And he does that, as you see in Acts chapter 6, with the Hellenists and the Hebrews contending over the lack of care for the Hellenistic widows.
[00:27:52]  And in that case, you know, God creates race.
[00:27:58]  He also creates ethnicity.
[00:28:00]  And when they decided and they prayed to resolve this issue, the first thing they looked for were godly men who rightly divided the word of truth, who were filled with the spirit of the Lord.
[00:28:14]  And you would think that's all that's necessary because we don't want to look at the color of the skin, but the content of the character.
[00:28:18]  Well, they also looked at the color of the skin because they appointed the men who oversaw the distribution to the widows.
[00:28:27]  They were all Hellenists.
[00:28:28]  They all had Greek names.
[00:28:31]  These Hebrews yielded to the Hellenists.
[00:28:34]  It's to a man's benefit to overlook an offense if it's within your ability to serve someone, do it.
[00:28:39]  And they did that.
[00:28:41]  So there's mending that's required, but the enemy is going to try to divide us by the color of our skin and our socioeconomic status.
[00:28:48]  It's the Hegelian dialectic where you divide and conquer.
[00:28:52]  The church must endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
[00:28:55]  Long answer, but I'll close it with this.
[00:29:00]  If you're in a church and you have appealed to your pastor and you've found resistance and no yielding, and he has made it abundantly clear that he is not yielding, you quietly leave and vote with your feet.
[00:29:19]  Don't attack him on your way out.
[00:29:21]  Don't dump on them on the way out.
[00:29:23]  Leave.
[00:29:26]  And when you leave, go to serve.
[00:29:29]  But endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
[00:29:32]  Does that help?
[00:29:33]  Very much.
[00:29:33]  So in closing, there's a lot of young people that listen to this podcast that email me and they say, Charlie, I'm a Christian.
[00:29:38]  Thanks to what you're talking about.
[00:29:41]  Amen.
[00:29:41]  You bless so many people, Charlie.
[00:29:42]  It's awesome.
[00:29:43]  It is.
[00:29:43]  So there's new listeners all the time that listen.
[00:29:46]  In some episodes, they come back and forth.
[00:29:48]  There's some people that are saying, Charlie, I'm losing meaning in my life all this.

=== Awakening Young People (03:29) ===

[00:29:54]  Can you help just talk about why should people become a Christian?
[00:29:59]  Why should anyone become a Christian?
[00:30:00]  Amen.
[00:30:01]  Because there's probably one human being listening to this right now that needs to hear this.
[00:30:05]  Amen.
[00:30:07]  So in California, we're contending with a loss of liberty in a way I've never experienced in 55 years on this earth.
[00:30:15]  The churches seem to be the last to awaken to the need to defend liberty.
[00:30:20]  The ones who are defending the liberty are the surfers and the skateboarders because they're losing their beaches and their skate parks.
[00:30:26]  They're not churchgoers.
[00:30:28]  And I would even venture to say they're not even conservative in their political beliefs.
[00:30:33]  But they've lost liberty.
[00:30:36]  And now they start to want to know what is liberty and why do I have these freedoms?
[00:30:40]  And these questions start to arise for their generation and hope for the future.
[00:30:44]  What's it all about?
[00:30:45]  And these enormous questions arise.
[00:30:49]  And I love this.
[00:30:50]  Abraham Lincoln never professed membership to a church and we don't have any evidence that he was ever baptized.
[00:30:57]  And his dying words in Ford's Theater on April 14th, 1865, the last words he ever spoke confirmed by the curator of the Lincoln Library.
[00:31:08]  And Mary Todd Lincoln herself, he leans into her and he says, I long to, when this is all over, the Civil War, I want to walk with you in the footsteps of our Savior in Jerusalem.
[00:31:15]  And then John Wilkes Booth shot him.
[00:31:18]  This backwoods, Kentucky boy who had never had a formal education, had been drinking from the streams of liberty his whole life and longed to come to its source.
[00:31:27]  And for those young people out there, you've been awakened to liberty.
[00:31:31]  And the reason why you have this hunger in your heart is because liberty is not man's idea.
[00:31:36]  It's God's idea.
[00:31:37]  And he's awakened you.
[00:31:39]  And Charlie, you, of all the people, you hate compliments.
[00:31:43]  And that's because there's humility.
[00:31:44]  And it's not a false humility.
[00:31:46]  But you got to endure it right now.
[00:31:50]  You have awakened and been used as an instrument of the Lord to awaken these young folks to this gift of liberty, to give them a hope in a generation that has been stifled and has been told that the world's going to end any minute now.
[00:32:07]  It's an awful existence.
[00:32:08]  It's an awful existence.
[00:32:10]  And you've laid out principles that have awakened them and caused them to hunger.
[00:32:14]  And now, like Abraham Lincoln, they want to come to the source.
[00:32:17]  And I say to those folks out there, come.
[00:32:20]  Jesus says, come to me, all you are burdened and heavy laden.
[00:32:23]  I'll give you rest.
[00:32:24]  My yoke is easy.
[00:32:25]  My burden is light.
[00:32:26]  He takes away fear and he gives you faith and he gives you a hope that this life is passing, but you're contending for ideals that will live long after you're off this earth.
[00:32:39]  And what awaits you is what you've always longed for.
[00:32:44]  The fulfillment of what God designed you to be, created in his image, with this ability to flourish with all the unique giftings you've had.
[00:32:54]  It is a calling, Charlie, that God has used for you to awaken these young people.
[00:32:58]  And I want to tell them you're on the right path.
[00:33:01]  And any way I can help with that, I'm here.
[00:33:03]  Well, it's the most important thing a human being can do.
[00:33:06]  Amen.
[00:33:07]  It's awesome.
[00:33:07]  Be reconciled to your Creator.
[00:33:08]  You're on this earth.
[00:33:09]  Point A, which is birth, to point B, which is death.
[00:33:11]  On the tombstone, there's a dash.
[00:33:13]  That's your life.
[00:33:13]  And you're here for one reason, to be reconciled to God.
[00:33:16]  Amen.
[00:33:17]  And he's ready to reconcile you.
[00:33:18]  He loves you.
[00:33:19]  Well, everyone can subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show by typing in Charlie Kirk Show to your podcast provider.

=== Reconciled to Your Creator (00:47) ===

[00:33:23]  Hit subscribe.
[00:33:24]  Any other final thoughts?
[00:33:25]  Rob underscore McCoy underscore is my thing at Instagram.
[00:33:29]  Instead, Instagram.
[00:33:30]  Yeah.
[00:33:30]  And every time, Charlie, I had like 300 followers.
[00:33:32]  Is that right?
[00:33:32]  Yeah, now I'm like approaching 3,000 overnight.
[00:33:35]  I think we had something to do with that.
[00:33:37]  You think?
[00:33:38]  I'm such not a social media guy, but if I can help with any way with any of those folks out there, I keep dabs on the Instagram.
[00:33:45]  Yeah.
[00:33:45]  Thanks, Rob.
[00:33:46]  God bless.
[00:33:46]  God bless you too, Charlie.
[00:33:54]  Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
[00:33:56]  Again, please support our program at CharlieKirk.com slash support.
[00:33:59]  CharlieKirk.com slash support.
[00:34:01]  Email us your thoughts at freedom at charliekirk.com.
[00:34:04]  Get involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.
[00:34:09]  Thank you guys so much for listening.
[00:34:10]  God bless.