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Feb. 19, 2020 - Clif High
38:38
interview with cliff choi out of hong kong about on ground situation there now - sun disease
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Time Text
Okay, there we go.
Good morning, everybody.
It's uh 7:54 a.m.
Civic Coast time on the um 19th of February.
I'm talking with uh Cliff Choi in um Hong Kong.
Uh he's a doctor of chiropractic, is that correct?
That's correct.
Yes.
And so I'll turn it over to you, Cliff, to provide your CV and uh and some and you can talk about how we can connect it and stuff.
So okay, great.
Uh so uh yes, I'm uh Dr. Chiropractic.
I also used to uh be uh uh paramedic.
I went through paramedic training in the US.
Of course, uh at that time we had the H1N1 virus go through the states, and uh, you know, basically I uh left the left the states and stuff like that.
Worked at a few hospitals, a government hospital in Shanghai.
This was what what year?
Uh this was about 2010.
Okay.
So I worked in uh government hospital, it was government uh Chinese hospital, and also uh tried to help start up some hospitals in Beijing and Guangzhou and uh Yunnan also.
But uh I moved to Hong Kong after uh uh failing in uh trying to get those hospitals started up, and uh of course I'm a Bitcoin guy because of you, and uh yeah, I mean, basically I've followed you since uh 98, I guess it was uh coast to coast or something.
Right, the very early ones, yeah.
Right, right.
So uh then I contacted you and we talked about Bitcoin stuff, trying to get some scripts going or something like that.
But uh in the way of the world, yeah.
That's right.
So so uh you're in Hong Kong now.
Uh what part of Hong Kong?
Uh on the island.
Oh, okay.
So right right in the middle.
Yeah, I was gonna say downtown essentially, yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And what are the conditions like?
Well, right now, everyone's seen the uh the toilet paper joke, right?
So uh course toilet paper sanity uh napkins, those are still around, but bleach and other sanitizing products are basically out.
Uh some people are uh hoarding them, and uh but uh really like it's a ghost town out here.
Uh of course, you know, we've had those protests and stuff like that, and uh, you know, uh I've seen and kind of predicted through your stuff that uh you know this place would uh empty out.
And we've seen a big exodus.
Uh a lot of the stores are closed.
Uh companies are all uh locked down basically, and uh and no no expectation, no discussion about uh future.
It's a ghost town, and uh you know, uh there's some other stats.
Uh I think there was about 200,000 uh visitors coming through Hong Kong, and maybe it's uh 3,000 now.
So it's really a ghost town.
I've uh I've never seen it like this, and so uh uh frankly, I if if things don't uh get going in a few months, I I don't think Hong Kong's gonna recover.
And and let's let's uh analyze that.
There's early in the morning performance.
I'm a little slow here, but um, so you say a few months.
How long how long do you actually think realistically from this point forward if nothing changes and it gradually gets worse?
What's the prognosis that in three months maybe a significant portion of the population will have left?
Uh well a lot of the expats are uh leaving right now.
Of course, we've had an exodus from the the protests and stuff like that, but uh but I I'm thinking by June we'll have uh just a maximum breakdown.
Uh the real estate starting to drop.
Um people are actually um protesting again about the uh uh the rental rates, of course, it's the highest in the world.
Uh people uh people are just uh working from home and stuff like that.
All the schools are closed down until about March, but I think that'll be extended till about June.
Right.
And these are like primary schools, secondary, university.
So far, uh reasonably vital services are still maintaining, still electricity, obviously internet.
Right, right.
Um, funny thing, like I was going to flush the toilet and I just flushed today.
And I think they turned the water off.
So you're gonna have to.
Or there might have been uh this is something I heard from Penelope Butcher the place, but it's a small, smaller town outside of uh Zhuangou where they said that the switch treatment plant lost electricity, or or no, the uh pumping station lost electricity, so everybody's water is shut down.
Yeah, well, it could be just my building or something, you know, and I could freak out, but uh yeah, we're we're we're in this like uh really surreal state, kind of like uh when I was in New York uh during 2001, everything was shut down from 14th street down, right?
And uh that's kind of what we're seeing here.
So it's like walking around in the zombie apocalypse without very many zombies on the street.
That's right.
Uh actually uh well when I talk to the kids, we talk we tell them that the drunk people are the zombies, but now you know there aren't very many zombies here.
Right, right.
Right.
Oh sounds but uh now what about um uh necessary supplies?
How are deliveries being handled?
Do you see trucks moving or uh yeah?
I actually I took a picture of a FedEx the other day, and so I but I was expecting you know you know a package to get here, but uh I will have thinking more in the way of um bulk goods, uh food stores, uh that sort of thing.
Uh well, uh there's there's only like a few chains, so of course all the toilet papers out.
Um sometimes the eggs are out, a lot of things are sourced from China, so I think that'll start drying up pretty soon.
Right.
Um I've heard that there's been a huge reduction in um uh Chinese, I wouldn't you wouldn't call them uh uh mainland uh workers or transients that go through Hong Kong on a daily basis.
There used to be a considerable number, and now it's like essentially stopped.
That's right.
From Sen Jan, people are quarantined for 14 days before they can enter Hong Kong.
I see, okay, that's what's going on.
All right, I've got it.
Okay, yeah.
And yeah, 14 days, it turns out doesn't mean anything in the way of this.
That you know, there's people showing uh symptoms 42 days after the last time they could have been exposed.
Right, right.
I and I think those numbers are right, what you're saying, probably 20 days or something.
Yeah, uh course we we had our second death in Hong Kong, so uh I think uh the the numbers are 65 total cases.
So let's let's talk about the strangeness of this from my perspective, okay.
But what struck me instantly was that the the central Chinese uh government did not, and this is an area where you certainly declined to answer any question, okay.
Um so but but the question comes down to it.
Is my impression that this time was extremely atypical, that unlike anything else in the way of a potential pandemic, SARS, MERS, any of these other things that have come through, that the that the central Chinese government uh relation to those old ways seriously overreacted.
Now it seems that maybe that was not an overreaction, but initially it certainly looked like it to the point where that was glaring.
Did you guys feel it that way as well?
I I thought it was really suspicious because uh during uh the H1N1, we had N95 maths, uh we didn't suit up, so that looked really suspicious to me.
It just kind of seemed out of place for a normal flu.
And so uh, you know, some of my other friends, the their doctors, of course, uh, and then there's other expats.
Um basically they got word that uh all the flights are gonna be shut down from China, and so they they just decided to leave.
Yeah, we're seeing a great number of uh returning expats uh of Chinese ethnicity to the US, right?
It's actually gotten noticeable in my little berg out here because we had a brief transit of some of these people, which actually put uh brings us back to my area.
They've got 712 people under observation as of two days ago.
So that's a lot.
Yeah, yeah.
Now uh so um in general, I could characterize it as the Chinese government behaved atypically.
I would agree with that.
Okay, and so we can leave aside any sort of um uh suspicions or conspiracies or anything that might get anybody into trouble, but we could just discuss the curious nature that appears to be unfolding about this, right?
And that is from my perspective, again, we're seeing individuals become ill outside of Asia, but so far there's been no deaths that we've been able to locate of a non-Asian ethnicity person, even those who are dying outside of Asia are of Asian ethnicity or or Chinese that happen to be tourists somewhere else and dying there, right?
So it it begs an interesting question, don't you think?
Um yeah, from the research that I've seen, um this uh the genome is uh doesn't seem like it would be a natural thing, natural occurrence, yeah.
So is that the understanding?
I know that the things are shut down, and it's not like you're you're out there gossiping in the hallway with your neighbors, but is it your your sensation that or your your impression that that many people share your understanding of this?
Well, these are only people with uh medical knowledge, I would say.
Uh actually it was somebody uh from the US that's working on uh mapping this genome, and they said it was atypical.
So uh you know complacency, somebody said something about complacency, and really like that's what I'm saying.
Like people really aren't taking it too seriously because uh of course they they get their information from maybe in the mainstream or something like that.
Sure.
And they've had previous uh instances where they've been trained to see it ramp up and then die down rapidly.
So of course, of course.
Right.
So uh the words of the okay, the information I'm getting out of mainland, uh I'm talking with a couple of people from Chungo and there are several other areas where they're still able to send me pictures and so on from the internet, and that is that in spite of the claim to the contrary, maybe 90 plus percent of all state-owned enterprises are shut down, and that there's no traffic in subways, there's no traffic on the streets and stuff.
Is that the case in Hong Kong or people sheltering now, or they're just sort of doing business as usual?
It's more like a self-imposed exile, I would say, because uh uh yeah, I am getting the same reports in China.
Um, so but in some some of the smaller uh cities, people actually um they're not allowed to go out or they're allowed to go out only to the grocery store.
Every all of the you know, other restaurants and stuff like that, the social things are shut down.
How far does that see that here?
Yeah, how far does that extend into China?
Because the official word in China that it's uh Hu Bei, and that's it, basically.
Right, right.
No, this is uh this is coming from like Shanghai, Guangzhou.
Uh I haven't heard too much from Beijing.
Uh I've been trying to contact some of the uh doctors that I uh used to work with, but uh uh you know, a lot of a lot of the expats actually got trapped uh during this uh the flight shutdown, um, either inside the country or outside of the country.
So some of them can't get back in, some of them can't get out.
You know, a lot of people are kind of running out of money.
So um yeah, it's uh very curious.
Yeah, I was just gonna say just that exact that statement.
It's a very curious way uh to cause uh predictable social upset.
So the the in my way of thinking, The um the people in charge, the powers that be know something that is so shocking to them that they think that these measures are the lesser of two evils.
Right.
That would that would seem to be the case from for um uh coming out anyway from the information we're getting.
Uh there's uh tons of denial, there's all kinds of information about um uh mobile crematoria and all of these sorts of things that indicate a very much higher death rate.
There's an official, there was one official in uh one of the hospitals in Wuhan who admitted that anybody who didn't actually pass two out of four tests to have the virus, even if they died, they weren't officially dead of the virus, and so they might be listed as pneumonia and so on.
Um yeah, I uh you know, working uh in hospitals and the government hospitals, uh I'd like to say they could take care of it, but uh frankly, um I think this is gonna be over a lot of people's heads.
And uh you know, they're trying to contain it, but I think um there's there's a lot of uh I'd say misinformation.
Um course if it were uh uh as bad as some people think it was gonna be, um, yes, it's totally out of control.
Right.
So in that sense, um it is not contained.
I mean, we have to acknowledge that to some degree it's not.
Right.
It's not a full-blown let it go everywhere and see who survives kind of a situation, but the ability to contain is is becoming unraveled.
The further we go.
We're seeing I've seen um a bunch of videos of people essentially defying uh uh central party authority as it's expressed on the ground in their confrontation with police and so forth, and it's getting um to the point where irritation and anger is gonna take over rationality, uh on both both sides, right?
We've seen oh it's I've I've seen it up close.
I mean, uh uh, you know, afically after you've lived in China and kind of uh met the locals and the expats and you know, some of the the uh authority there, um, you know, a lot of them um I would say uh are very nationalistic, and so the party, if you're not in the one party, then you're not on the team.
And if you're not on the team, um you know they'll make other plans for you.
So uh yeah, it's a very uh uh I would say bad situation uh politically, yeah.
Politically inside China, there's this is a mass disruption that they don't uh will they be in your opinion?
Will the central party be able to recover from this if it extends a couple of more months?
Uh well actually I was thinking maybe by June we'll have maximum chaos.
So um, you know, after that it could be uh every man for himself.
Right.
Anybody's guess as to how it works out.
Yeah.
Uh you know, I've been talking about that since uh 2011.
You know, I frankly didn't want to come to Hong Kong because you know I kind of know how things work, and if you're not on the team, you know, universe puts us where we need to be, unfortunately.
You know, so uh you know, so I'm with you on there.
I wouldn't necessarily want to choose a whole lot of places, but universe would certainly plop us there.
Uh so it seems like the situation relative to well, now what about the um okay?
So there was the period of protests, and there was tension that developed between the uh protesting groups and authority in Hong Kong, and that extended tension between the authority and Hong Kong and the authorities in the mainland that had to sort of control or supervise it.
And like yeah, I mean, I I would agree with that.
I mean, because uh, you know, there's been such a large push here.
I mean, two million people on the street is you know large percentage of uh Hong Kong.
Um but uh I think the the timing of this virus is kind of interesting, yeah.
Yeah, is Is the tension still there though that you're aware between the uh Hong Kong management and the Chinese management, or is Hong Kong pretty much falling in line with what mainland wants?
Well, I as far as the as far as the virus.
Um yeah, I mean everybody's kind of sticking with the uh program and uh but uh you know the the doctors in Hong Kong went on strike, and so I mean that that group stepped up and put more pressure on on the uh CEO.
So there's tension on all sides, really.
And is uh is your expectation now that you will uh face a situation where uh the virus is running through Hong Kong the way that it seems to be in other areas of China.
Do you do you uh figure that's headed your way?
Uh yeah.
Uh okay.
You know, the uh I I tried to uh push antiviral mask back in 2017.
Uh you know, basically it's got uh a zinc ion layer sprayed on there, and so that's a 99.9% uh uh protection layer.
Of course, it it basically kills the virus on contact.
Right.
So I was pushing that back in 2017.
Of course, I was visiting hospitals trying to push them up to the mainland too.
Um but uh you know the the government hospitals, I don't want I saw I don't think they'll be able to handle uh mass incident or MCI, what we call it, mass casualty incident.
So um if it does get out of hand here, um then uh you know basically this everyone's gonna be stuck, I think.
Right.
In that case, you personally wouldn't necessarily even seek uh health care in a hospital if you assume they're gonna be overwhelmed and and infection central.
No, that's that would be a risk too, you know.
You know, uh but uh you know these uh there's a few other docs that I that I know here.
Of course, I'm trying to um get a consensus, but uh you know not a lot of ducks are uh I guess uh conspiracy oriented uh yeah I don't I well I guess they're busy, right?
You know, yeah, there you go.
They're just busy fellows, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So uh but yeah, I I think I'm gonna go down to uh Bangkok, one of my uh my uncles he he had a zinc oxide plant, and so basically I'm gonna see if I can try to get some of those masks made.
Uh basically I tried to certain I'm certain you would find people more receptive now.
Oh, of course.
Of course, we've got uh probably I've had orders up to about 200 million masks, so yeah.
I don't think uh actually I uh the original manufacturer had them made in China, and so they're out.
Right, right.
No, and so many things we're starting to see some of the um I actually had personal experience with a chunk of equipment, uh fairly heavy-duty uh equipment for uh my sewage system here not coming from China, and that was basically the only sole source for it.
Right, right.
So you know it's impacting the planet, although albeit nowhere near the impact in China itself, right?
Yeah, so well one uh question here about your your foreknowledge of this, okay.
So you were sitting in Hong Kong.
Were you aware in October that the uh military Olympics or or uh military exercises were going on in uh Wuhan?
No, uh we were pretty much occupied by the uh protests and gotcha.
Okay, so until so your first Understanding that the um uh virus was um out and about in the mainland came when I was uh well I I was back in the States, so we came back sometime in January, and then I guess it was uh the middle of January when I started uh hearing about this.
Of course, then I checked your old reports, and it was 2016 when you called it.
Right.
So then I did research and yeah, and so your your contact with the doctors, their impression of the um uh those who are paying attention, I understand many will not, they'll just be involved in the day-to-day.
Um are there uh what I'm basically uh trying to ask in a in a polite fashion is um how aware are other doctors of the unusual nature of the virus, and do they consider this something to ponder over?
Um, I don't think they've seen the papers yet.
Um it's an information flow.
It is an information flow, of course.
Uh you know, there's a lot of good information on PubMed.
That's where I've been getting most of uh the like genetic stuff, the genome stuff.
And uh I think once they look at it, then um and it gets peer reviewed, of course, everybody will be on board, right?
Right.
So after that, then everybody will be on the bandwagon, right?
Right.
So let's uh back over to um social political uh kind of things.
In your uh wanderings through the Chinese medical infrastructure in 2017 and and thereabouts, and you met these people, and I'm just asked after a basic impression.
Uh what's your impression of their reaction to um after this is over, things sort of die down a bit, everybody starts recovering.
What would happen if they came to understand that the virus was perhaps not natural?
Would it influence their political understanding of where they relate to their party in the in the country?
Oh, yeah.
I well it I'd have to speak for myself, but I think that um there would be a uh a collapse, let's say in the belief system.
Right.
Uh I mean, we're pretty close, perhaps anyway.
Yeah, I and frankly, like I think there's a lot of um discontent with how it was dealt with right now.
I mean, just uh I mean transparency is is kind of like a way of life now, you know.
Of course, right?
We're blockchain guys, and uh well, we're actually watching the failure as you pointed out actually.
That's a very astute point.
In the in a lot of the West, we're moving in towards transparency, and even in China, they're moving in towards transparency, but we're actually observing the failure of them reversing that that direction right now.
They they reverse to go non-transparent, and it's just breaking down everywhere.
I didn't think about it that way, but that's true.
Yeah, right.
Well, I mean this uh uh Hong Kong has uh a lot of bright people, and of course, you know the Hong Kong has woken up, and I think the the news has leaked into China, and I think they're waking up too.
And the repercussions will be probably worse in China if uh things my way of thinking would last a number of years.
If this lockdown lasted even into June, repercussions might go on for two, three years afterwards.
Oh, yeah.
June is uh where I think things will just collapse.
I mean, if if they don't recover it by June, then you know, the supply chains when they break down, then everything else breaks down.
Uh when I uh when I went through the war college with my father in the 60s, one of the key elements that I recall from the biological warfare training was the uh inbuilt assumption that no social order could withstand a bioweapon and that all um organized government would collapse about six months from the first lockdown.
So your your timing is almost six six months, yeah.
I would place it actually around either June 2nd to uh June 27th, depending on whether we take the naval college being the first place lockdown or the actual town of Wuhan.
Right, right.
So, yeah, I'm going to try to go to Thailand, get some masks or, you know, manufacture masks, try to get some traction or something.
But I think, like, this is, if the numbers that they're reporting aren't correct, this is going to get wildly out of hand.
Just wildfire, like you said.
Right.
And it's a terrible situation for everyone.
And even now, even at this level, for both China and the rest of the world, I mean, this is just terrifically horrific.
It is horrific.
Yeah, this is a horror for people.
You know, the WHO actually ranked China at 144 out of 191 countries.
So I think the Western world will be able to contain it.
But, you know, when you're ranked, you know, on the bottom half of the scale, there's, you know, there's going to be some problems.
Well, the United States is 37.
37.
So we're not like number one or anything.
So our healthcare system, should that come to, I did some calculations.
Right, right.
Admittedly, I based these calculations on reported ethnicities in various different parts of the U.S. And I made the assumption in my calculations that it would be first would be people of Asian extraction and ethnicity that would suffer the virus.
And that I just stopped it right there.
And I made the assumption that nobody else was going going to get ill except for Asians.
All right this is not accurate thinking this was just for the purpose of illustration and even then within the United States our healthcare system breaks down if we have to treat even a quarter of all the Asian population our hospitals cannot cannot cope.
Right right and then we don't have the supplies I mean we've got issues of the disinfectants and masks and stuff not being available here and there's gouging now starting to show up on the industrial supplier side I expected that to take a little bit longer.
Yeah no I I totally agree with you I mean definitely once a supply chain breaks down we're talking maybe a maybe if they're saying it's an R2 right but if the supply chain breaks down we're talking R5.
uh and see okay let's define that for people okay so uh r0 is how they so an r2 is if i get sick i infect two people and r5 is if i get sick i infect five people right we've got a weird situation here where i'm actually seeing r25 being reported holy crap in from people that now this admittedly was a doctor that i can't validate but he did send me his
certificate from the chinese party that certified him as being able to practice at this hospital okay i have yet to translate it but i translated it enough to know that he is a doctor was official from a hospital it was in 2018 that he was granted this right and he's saying that that um now he he lives in and i won't talk about where he's at okay because he's in he's a han chinese but he's living in an area that is mostly not han chinese right he's saying that the ethnic han
chinese he's seeing a lot of them in the hospital but but so far the local population that is more um uh rural and uh and uh uh herdsman kind of people are not showing up in the in the the volume and he actually is saying that that he thinks it's an R25 in the population that he's dealing with in his situation and it and it's he's basically losing his mind over it.
Right no I could not could not consider that.
Yeah I saw that paper on the ace two uh entry point and uh actually there there was another study that said uh basically it's guangzhou area, Southern Chinese, Southern Han, and also Tokyo, Japan has has the ace too.
So maybe there's some genetic uh family relationship there, you know, relation.
But anyway, uh, genetically, uh, those are the two highest populations that'll be affected.
So Hong Kong's, you know, right to be having problems.
Are you um are you able to do things like uh have you investigated the chaga mushroom and these kind of things?
I've looked around, I've looked around, but uh, you know, I kind of stay at home.
Gotcha, gotcha, sure, sure.
I understand.
Right.
Yeah.
But uh yeah, I I will be kind of doing some recon later.
Of course, I I have that mess, so I feel a lot better.
Right.
Uh I've got goggles.
Right.
Uh uh also, by the way, another uh I've heard uh local, perhaps more accessible version uh for you would be Taiwano fungus, uh that that unique fungus grown in Taiwan and exported as a tonic, usually in liquid form with alcohol, would be perfectly fine.
Okay, I'll look that up too.
Yeah, because it's also touted as being an HIV protease inhibit.
Uh that appears to be a weakness that might be engineered into this.
I saw that paper too, and uh, you know, when that first came out, it basically got shut down.
Right, right.
So but it got removed, and then there was actual pressure put on the fellow that that uh put that out.
You can contact him and he won't say much, but he will say, Yeah, they came and stomped on.
Okay, okay.
No, I however, however, I heard it was confirmed out of Russia as well.
Well, I I'm hearing from Boston that uh, you know, this is not a natural thing.
Right.
So well, okay, and so uh given medical knowledge, would you say it's an uh at least a wise precaution to assume that that might be a vulnerability, that it's not natural, and therefore there may be inhibitors that could could boost your immune system.
So in other words, if it's not natural, it would have to have been engineered by humans, and they may have screwed up and made it weak in an area they had not anticipated.
That's that's sort of my thinking, right?
No, actually, I heard I heard a report out of Japan, maybe, but they are using the HIV antivirals to treat it.
Right, and with effect, I've also heard that out of the early days.
That's weird, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Even in Thailand, too.
So that's weird.
And so my thinking then, as soon as I heard that, and then I uh talked to my friend in um uh in Wuhan, or by email, you know, and uh and he said that uh none of his patients thinking chaga had come down with it.
I went and looked up Chaga, saw the HIV link and went, uh-huh.
Right, right.
No, that's that's excellent.
That's uh and actually uh two of his patients did come down with it, but was extremely mild, only lasted three days, nipples regular kind of flu, and there was nothing, not even an appreciable fever.
Right, right.
No, I I heard that uh of course from you guys, and uh I'm definitely gonna have to do some research, but I think you're you're on to something.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh I've got a limit, unfortunately, on my Zoom this morning.
But but let's uh anything else you care to hear to get out.
I've got a few minutes here, so anything else you need to say about this?
Uh observations, real thoughts.
Well, of course, uh here's here's a weird contrast.
We we have this happening.
25% of the of Hong Kong is finance.
There's a lot of uh the crypto companies here.
Of course, I work for like an OTC and you know the Bitcoin Association, and uh but like uh I think what we're gonna see also just uh flip the script, but we're gonna see the crypto companies survive here in Hong Kong, and then everything else just fall apart.
Of course, uh you know, things were falling apart with the protests, and this just totally decimated the tourists and everything.
So things are in a sense though, that actually may have been um certain saving grades.
I mean, it in during that period of time the protests were terrible, but it did shut down travel, which might have led to a bigger bloom in Hong Kong.
Right, right, possibly, possibly.
You know, old Taoist, you always look for the good, right?
Yeah, some people some people call me uh a cynic, but uh no, I'm I'm a positive person, right?
But right sometimes you get bad, you know, the the logic just doesn't make sense.
So but you gotta stick to the science, right?
And say in basically what's going on with it all.
Yeah.
So um uh anything we can do to assist.
I mean, is there I mean I know that things are in lockdown and it's chaos for months and months, uh, but but anything you can think that that might ease conditions anywhere that could be done by people on the outside.
Um put me on the spot, I understand.
Yeah, I well I th I think the information, the knowledge will protect you.
Um the information needs to get out, and uh and also I mean I hate to I hate to say it this way, and I don't want to get the video pulled or anything, but let me state that if I had uh been born um actually uh my Chinese uncle used to say it a particular way.
Okay, if I had been lucky enough to have been born Chinese, yeah, I would be very, very, very personally focused on my health because it would seem that Chinese at this moment in time are not so lucky, right?
Oh yeah.
So and so I'd be very focused on that and and exploring alternative ways boosting my immune system.
Right, right.
Terrible thing if uh if you're a Viking and they engineered a uh anti-viking disease, then um, you know, it's not like the Italians are gonna be able to help you because it simply won't affect them.
And so if you're a Viking, then you gotta do Viking things to uh to deal with it because it's on you at that point, and then recriminations and you know, all of the other stuff in the far future once we're through it all.
Right.
No, definitely it's uh the knowledge is gonna protect, and you know, you've you've been uh putting out some good information, and you know, I uh I'm really uh proud for you that you've been.
Well, very much, you know, like I say, I'm just an old ball guy doing what I can, you know.
Okay, we we all gotta stick together, you know.
It's it's us humans all on this big lifeboat together.
So yeah, no doubt.
Well, thank you very much for your time.
I'm gonna ask um uh uh Dajia How and Sh.
Okay.
Okay, I'll keep you posted.
Yes, yes, please do.
Thank you very much.
All right, thanks, Cliff.
Thank you.
All right, bye now.
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