Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - Transcending the Messiah

March 8, 2025 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

01:19:47

Transcending the Messiah

It's not enough to be box office, Nige. Get Islander #3 here: https://shop.lotuseaters.com/ It's not enough to be box office, Nige. Get Islander #3 here: https://shop.lotuseaters.com/

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	Gentlemen, I hope you're doing well.
	Hello chat.
	Good grief.
	This was something I could have done without on a Friday evening.
	All blowing up all over the bloody internet in just the most unnecessary ways.
	And so I thought what I would do with this stream is be honest.
	Try maybe to shed some light on what is happening.
	and perhaps offer a constructive path out of this.
	I don't think any of my advice will be followed.
	I don't think any of the observations that I'm making are going to be taken at all in any way, shape or form.
	And I think that's going to be to the deficit of the Reform Party and Nigel Farage.
	And just to be clear, I voted for them last time.
	I want to see them win.
	I want to see Britain be saved from Labour, the Tories, the Lib Dems, the Greens, the SNP, Blade Cymru, and the rest of them.
	I would love to see that.
	And it seems that Reform are the only game in town at the moment.
	So it makes you wonder why they seem to be so insistent on shooting themselves in the foot.
	I have no idea why they keep doing this.
	Like, none of this is necessary.
	And we have a really good living example of Donald Trump in the United States at the moment.
	That Farage is just failing to follow his example over and over and over.
	And so we'll get into this after we go through what has happened.
	And like I said, I don't doubt that I'm on a million blacklists with, which is fine.
	I don't need anything from them or anything.
	But I do want to see them succeed.
	And if it's going to come down to, well, everyone on earth can just let these four guys do it, then okay.
	But I do think you're creating a rod for your own back there.
	Wouldn't it just be much easier to let people help you?
	It's so bizarre that they're so against having anyone help them.
	And okay, well, you know, if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.
	So I guess I'll just document these things honestly and fairly comprehensively, I think, and I guess we'll see where the chips fall afterwards.
	Because again, I've been nothing but supportive, even when I've been critical.
	And it's not because I want to see them fail.
	It's because I think they're going to fail if they don't start taking what they're doing quite seriously.
	And accepting their position in the grand scheme of things, there's a deep strain of insecurity in reform, in Farage, and the people around him, as if they don't really believe they are what they claim to be and deserve to have what they actually seem to have.
	And I don't understand it.
	I really don't understand it.
	But like I said, we will get into it.
	My stream title is fantastic, as all of my stream titles are.
	Thank you, Trevor.
	Before we begin, though, of course, Islander 3 is still on sale.
	I think we're through around two-thirds of the stock that we have.
	So get it while it's still available.
	It's going to be available for about another two weeks, I think it is, or until the stock is gone.
	And then once it's gone, printed.
	This is a moment in time that we are documenting with the Islander magazine.
	And it's better to have something tangible, right?
	All of this could be taken away.
	This is just a digital thermal moment on the internet.
	But the magazine is real and they can't take that away from you.
	So link in the description.
	Anyway, so reform have had quite a few, in my opinion, massive PR blunders, right?
	With their own base, with their own supporters, with the people who they expect to vote for them.
	One of them was Richard Tice saying that he didn't want to have anything to do with that lot, referring to Tommy Robinson.
	This was just insufferable.
	We've been protesting in his name.
	What do you make of Tommy Robinson?
	Is he a good guy in your eyes?
	No, no.
	All of that lot, we have nothing to do with them.
	What, even the protesters who have got banners up saying two-tier care?
	You agree with them on the policing and justice thing?
	We agree with ourselves.
	I'm not aligning ourselves with Tommy Robinson's lot in any shape.
	That lot.
	It's too good for that lot.
	And that's fine.
	That's fine.
	You know what?
	I can understand it.
	In Britain, outside of Britain, Tommy Robinson is just a normal conservative figure, normal patriot.
	In Britain, he has been demonized for the best part of 20 years to the point where he is, I mean, just persona non grata, right?
	They treat him as if he is a herald of the end times.
	And so I can understand why Richard Tice is like, look, we're not politically anything to do with them.
	And every time Nigel Farage had Tommy Robinson brought up to him, he fumbled it.
	Frankly, he didn't have a good narrative on it.
	And that's a bizarre thing because you'd think the people around Nigel Farage would be like, right, no, you just need a good, snappy piece to just say, no, well, this is the case.
	And we understand that, you know, Tommy Robinson is being unfairly treated by the British state.
	And really, we think that Tommy Robinson's very existence is a failing of the establishment.
	And what we're going to do is make sure that the grooming gangs get justice and this is put to a stop.
	And then you can step past the question of Tommy Robinson.
	And suddenly you're on the attack.
	You're like, yeah, so the establishment of which you're a part, Mr. Media person, you were instrumental in making sure this was able to persist by calling everyone a racist, by demonizing Tommy Robinson, in fact, who is actually politically not that controversial.
	You can say, well, he's got a criminal history.
	Yeah, yeah, sure, he does.
	But politically, he's actually not terribly outside of the bounds of normalcy.
	The American conservatives just recognize him as one of their own.
	So you could easily have stepped over this, but Nigel kind of fumbled it.
	Every time he had to talk about Tommy, he'd just kind of stumble over, well, and he'd look defensive.
	And it got to the point where people were like, do you hate Tommy Robinson?
	He's like, no, I don't hate Tommy Robinson.
	I'm just leading a political party and he's an activist.
	Why do you keep asking if we're on the same team?
	Anyway, so last year, Ben Habib left Reform after being their former deputy leader.
	And his contention with reform was that, well, it wasn't structured in the right way.
	It wasn't structured democratically.
	And, you know, I just want to be clear.
	I'm actually not against the idea of a party that is not structured democratically.
	As I understand it, Nigel Farage took his inspiration for this from Geert Wilderss, who like essentially set up a one-man party that people could subscribe to, like with reform.
	And look how well Gert Vilders is doing now, right?
	So to have like executive control of the thing, I'm not necessarily against that.
	It's just that Nigel Farage keeps using the language of, oh, we're going to democratize.
	We're going to democratize.
	Okay, but I don't know.
	I think you could get away with not.
	You know, if you're Nigel Farage and in Nigel Farage's position, I think you could have got away with saying, no, I'm just in charge of the Reform Party and things are going to be how I say they're going to be.
	And if you don't like that, well, there's the door.
	But if you do, if you're fine with it, we're going to get this done.
	I'd have been okay with that.
	But Ben Habib's like, look, they're not democratizing.
	This is a real problem.
	And of course, because he had publicly counter-signaled Nigel, well, Ben Habib was out.
	And it was the way in which Nigel Farage dealt with it that I really found distasteful.
	Because there's one thing with Rupert Lowe being like, Rupert Lowe, Richard Tice being like, look, which has nothing to do with that lot.
	The kind of, you know, the bad taste in his mouth.
	But there's another thing where Nigel Farage was being very childish about it, frankly.
	And it's very peculiar because it's like, oh, why would you react that way?
	This is what he said.
	What would you say I have to ask you as well?
	You've got Andrew Jenkins in.
	One of the things that many GB news viewers have been in touch about is Ben Habib.
	What's happened there for anyone that's not followed that twist and turn?
	Yeah.
	Well, that was the real champagne moment of the day.
	I mean, it was a good day, but Ben Habib announcing he's not with us really was the absolute icing on the cake.
	Look, after the election, Ben didn't get elected.
	Other people did.
	And he and David Bull had been the deputy leaders under Richard Tice.
	And I said, Ben, David, I'm really sorry, but I want to make Richard Tice the deputy because he's in the House of Commons.
	He will literally deputize for me when he's there and I'm traveling around the country.
	And David Bull accepted that and is very much a part of the organisation.
	And poor old Ben felt bitter about it.
	And he's attacked me more in public than the Labour Party have.
	It's gone very bitter, very twisted.
	It's very sad.
	The fact that he's walked away, frankly, is a huge relief.
	And there was a bit where he, in a different interview, was like, started singing The Son has Got His Hat On, hip, hip, hip, array.
	It's like, right.
	That seems insecure, right?
	That seems petty and unnecessary.
	And if you are expecting to be what's essentially the leader of the British right, it feels like you should probably rise above things like that.
	That seems unnecessary.
	And I mean, Ben Habib tells a different story, obviously.
	Doesn't quite sound that way.
	He sounds like he was forced out.
	But then you've got, okay, well, I mean, don't be wrong.
	He's not raising an unfair point.
	The deputy leader probably should also be an MP if that option is available.
	So, you know, fine.
	But is it like that?
	Or is it that Ben Habib kept going on GB News and various other talk TV, various other TV stations, and doing a really good job?
	Everyone happened to notice that Ben Habib was very articulate and made the case very strongly and very well and very persuasively.
	And so Ben Habib started gaining a following of his own.
	And then suddenly, Ben Habib is out of the party.
	Right.
	That's interesting, isn't it?
	Anyway, so when Rupert Lowe had the temerity to say, well, there are definitely problems with reform.
	We need to address them.
	Well, you can imagine that went down like a bag of spanners, right?
	So apparently Rupert Lowe had said that Nigel acts like a messiah and needs to learn how to delegate, which I think is probably not entirely inaccurate.
	And in an interview with Dan Mail, he said, we have to change from being a protest party led by the Messiah into being a properly structured party with a front bench, which we don't have.
	Now, this, I'm sure, I've got something in my eye.
	This, I'm sure you'll notice, echoes something I said in my Dear Mr. Farage video the other day, where I pointed out, look, you don't have names, right?
	There aren't any named actors inside reform who I would expect to be a thing, right?
	Now, other parties, UKIP's a good example of this.
	They have spokesmen for things.
	So if you don't have an elected representative who is like an MP, who is in a sort of shadow cabinet position, you elect to choose a spokesperson.
	So it's like, right, when the subject of the environment comes up and we need someone to explain our party's environmental policy, well, you get the media to just call up this chap who you've put as the spokesperson for the party, and they will say, yeah, this is what we're going to do.
	And so in the hypothetical event of the party forming a government, then that person would be expected to lead the department in question.
	But of course, reform don't have anything like that.
	We don't know who would form a government with Nigel Farage, because, I mean, up until this moment, he had five MPs.
	And again, that's great, but that's not enough to form a government, which, of course, we know.
	But there's not even anyone in waiting.
	Now, an obvious parallel here is Donald Trump with Tulsi Gabbard, RFK, and Kash Patel and a bunch of others, right?
	People who are not themselves elected politicians, or any more anyway, but are experts in their fields.
	well-known faces, people the public know and have a bead on.
	They've got a history and people know the measure of them to some degree.
	And so you can expect, right, if Trump wins this time, right, RFK is going to be in charge of health.
	Tulsi is going to be in charge of national security.
	Like, Kash Patel is going to be in the FBI, et cetera, et cetera.
	This makes your entire project seem a lot more strong, seem a lot more realistic, mature.
	It looks like you are ready for government if you have well-known talking heads who know the score and can articulate properly the message of the party on TV to normal people who just want to be, they just really want to feel reassured that the country is going to be in safe hands, right?
	This is why our politicians are so boring.
	This is why British politicians are so goddamn dull and honestly not very bright generally.
	If you look at most of the elected politicians, they're real morons.
	But what they have is an approved set of talking points.
	And they just trot them out very blandly and say, this is the party's position and therefore.
	So reform for some reason didn't have this, don't have this, aren't going to have this.
	And we are still left in the dark as to who we might actually expect in government making decisions.
	Were there to be an election call tomorrow and Nigel Frost storms a massive victory.
	So, I mean, why?
	Why is that the case?
	Because any good leader knows what you want to do is surround yourself with really talented people.
	You want to know that you've got clever, hardworking, loyal people who are close to you, who can be moved into positions as and when they're needed.
	And this will allow you to get things done.
	It makes your own base feel more secure.
	It makes it broader.
	Because remember, each of these people has a large following of their own.
	And so you've got a much larger coalition.
	You've got a lot more many hands making light work when it comes to political activism.
	And you've got more robustness in the structure.
	So, okay, something happens and say Richard Tice is like, oh, God, I need to go on TV and deal with Tommy.
	Can someone go do that for me?
	Someone else who's a bit more that way inclined and can take the question better than, say, Richard Tice could, could go in and fill in for him.
	But if you've only got five MPs, then actually it's quite difficult to drag those people in.
	And in fact, on the Tommy question, it was Rupert Lowe that basically smoothed all of this over because Rupert Lowe put out a very diplomatic statement saying, no, I recognize that Tommy Robinson has done good work on the Grooming Gangs.
	But of course, he's not a politician.
	No one's even said, can he join?
	You know, no one's, he hasn't asked.
	We haven't asked him to.
	This is just something that's been confected by the media and we appreciate what he's done.
	But he's not joining the party because he's not even asked.
	And we're going to get the job that he's been drawing attention to done.
	We're going to solve it.
	That was a great statement by Rupert Lowe.
	And if you have enough good people around you, you can pull them in to do these things.
	And you saw this all the time with Trump's team and his campaign moving into the last election.
	I would see Trump's men and women everywhere spreading the word, flooding the zone, as it were, putting all of this across and a giant chorus of vote for Trump, right?
	You don't have that with Nigel Frash.
	You don't have reform.
	And so Rupert Lowe is not wrong to say, well, look, it's still kind of a protest party, right?
	Because Nigel and Tice and Zia seem to think, oh, having local branches is what Rupert is talking about.
	That's not really what Rupert's talking about.
	What he's talking about is having a kind of, I suppose in wrestling, they'd call it a family of faces, you know, a solid cohort of people who are intelligent and can back each other up and can win the arguments in the public domain.
	That's what reform needs.
	If it's all down to Tice, Farage, Zia, and Lea Anderson, then that's a tiring job.
	And if you see Farage in recent interviews, he looks bloody tired.
	It's like, yeah, I'm not surprised.
	You're trying to carry all of this yourself.
	Like, you could get 10 times more media done if you just trust 10 people around you.
	But as it is at the moment, you don't.
	And so you've got a very narrow band of people who can actually go out and fight in Reform's corner.
	And they're not all doing a brilliant job, by the way, as Tice showed a minute ago.
	And Rupert Lowe was one of those ones who was actually doing a good job.
	And Rupert Lowe, like Ben Habib, was able to properly articulate the patriotic position that everyone thinks reform should have.
	And so they hear Rupert Lowe explaining the correct position from our perspective and say, right, okay, no, he's a good guy.
	And he seems, I mean, Rupert does seem to be a good guy.
	He gives away his salary to charity every month because he's independently wealthy and doesn't need it.
	So he gives it to charity.
	That seems like the mark of a good man to me.
	And I like that a lot, actually.
	And again, Ben Habib was very similar.
	Like, you know, businessman seems to be doing this for the need of it.
	Like, I got Ben Habib to write an article for Letterseys.com the other day.
	I was like, right, okay, how much do you want for it?
	He's oh, nothing.
	I'm doing it for the cause.
	I was like, okay, but I really do need to pay you something just for my own benefit.
	I want to, you know, I don't want to have an unpaid debt or anything.
	But the point being, these people do end up building their own following.
	Now, that's not a problem unless you're deeply insecure about your own position.
	And this is a recurring theme that comes through basically Nigel Farage's entire political life, but we'll get to that in a little bit.
	Anyway, going back to what Rupert Lowe here has said, and again, he's just not wrong about these things, right?
	He says, we have to change from being a protest party led by a Messiah into a properly structured party with a front bench, which we don't have.
	We need to start behaving as if we are leading and not merely protesting.
	Nigel is a messianic figure who's at the core of everything, but he has to learn to delegate.
	Not everything can go through one person.
	Right.
	That's not wrong, right?
	Everyone knows.
	And the defense, the primary defense of him from people like Anne Whitticomb, and again, we'll get onto these in a minute, has been, yeah, well, if it wasn't for Nigel, reform wouldn't have any seats at all.
	I agree.
	I agree with you.
	He began in the messianic figure mold, just as Rupert Lowe has said.
	But look at where you are now.
	25% of all the polls.
	Every goddamn poll, it's like 20 to 27% or something like that.
	Reform are the most popular political party in the country.
	The messianic figure is not enough for what you're about to move into.
	It is not enough for you to say, well, Nigel Farage has got to, let's assume Nigel Farage gets you to 50%, right?
	You win like 500 seats in the next election.
	Okay, now what?
	You're going to have 500 nobodies, 500 total unknowns who don't know politics because you've literally just had to drag someone in and be a seat filler for us here.
	We've checked your social media history.
	You've never used Facebook.
	Brilliant.
	You can go.
	Like, this person is not going to be an experienced political operator.
	And reform have not got anyone lined up because they keep salami slicing off those people who are even vaguely.
	And this is constructive criticism, right?
	This is constructive criticism.
	This isn't someone who's like, right, I'm going to try and destroy Nigel Farage today.
	I'm going to try and destroy reform.
	It's a reform MP giving you constructive criticism.
	Saying, look, guys, what we need to do is get from where we are to where we need to be in order to form a really effective government.
	And the response to this was absolutely abominable, just terrible.
	And another thing as well, Rupert has posted a lot about this on social media, obviously.
	And one of the things he said was, look, I was trying to get a dinner with Nigel Farage, sit down and explain all of this to him, but he just kept ignoring me.
	Wouldn't do it.
	It's like, how is it possible in a party with five MPs, all of them situated in the southeast, by the way?
	So it's not exactly far from the travel.
	How is it possible that one of the MPs can't actually get in contact with the party leader?
	Especially when it's on a strategizing meeting that he's looking for.
	It's like, Nigel, we need to talk about strategy.
	There are some things we've got to worry about if we want to really kick this to the next level.
	And Nigel's like, I'm not answering that.
	You know, what is going on here?
	This is madness, right?
	So anyway, deeply symptomatic of a lot of things that are wrong with this party, frankly, and Nigel's leadership through the years.
	But anyway, he's right.
	They need to start behaving as if they were leading.
	Now, this is an interesting thing because having a hyper-charismatic single sort of speaker who acts as a kind of opposite totem or pole around which resistance can gather is a useful thing to have when you're beginning the attack or trying to build your forces against the current paradigm.
	It's a really useful thing to have.
	And yes, this means they do create a kind of cult of personality around themselves.
	And yes, this does mean that you get lots of people who are devoted to that person's mythos, right?
	The legend of that person.
	That's fine.
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	But at some point, that person who has now said, right, now I'm going to take on the mantle of leadership of the party and the movement.
	That person has to realize at some point it's not all about them.
	It is actually incumbent on them to transcend the position of being the messianic figure into someone who feels legitimate.
	Because if Nigel, God forbid, was like hit by a bus tomorrow or something, what they're saying with all of this is like, yeah, reform just collapses.
	Yeah, reform just collapses, just goes away because it's all built on Nigel.
	It's like, okay, but that's what Rupert is trying to address, right?
	Unless Nigel wants it to be all built on him.
	So he does absolutely everything forever, which, I mean, imagine how that's going to work when he gets to the government.
	The government in Britain is an irreducibly complex thing.
	And each institution of government is itself a large thing with tens of thousands of bureaucrats and civil servants running it.
	The idea that Nigel can just walk in and go, okay, I'm the prime minister.
	Things will happen now.
	No, no.
	You're going to end up like Trump in his first term.
	And it's kind of wild that you haven't learned from this.
	Trump wasn't prepared.
	You know the game because you've been in this game for a long time.
	You should be prepared.
	So you need effective hatchet men to be like, right, this guy's going to go in here, clean out the civil service.
	Any opposition, just fire them all.
	And rehire people who are good or on side to get the jobs done.
	I want lots of stuff done as soon as I get in.
	And Nigel has not done any of this.
	So anyway, this was Rupert Lowe's very reasonable criticisms, right?
	Very reasonable.
	It's true.
	And it's not a moral judgment against Nigel Farage.
	If anything, it's bigging him up.
	Yes, Nigel Farage was charismatic enough to become the Messiah figure of UKIP, the Brexit Party reform, right?
	Yes, and there are millions of people in the country who would like to see him as prime minister.
	Nobody doubts that.
	But you need to become the leader of the movement rather than just Nigel Farage with a glowing aura around him.
	Otherwise, you're going to get into the position you're going to fail.
	So this was not taken very well.
	Now, the day after, I think this was, yeah, this 7th.
	They must be reporting it late.
	So the Daily Mail one, I think, was on the 5th, and then this came out on the 6th.
	And so Richard Tice's wife is regularly on Talk TV and various other places.
	Her name's Isabel Oakshire.
	I don't think they're actually married, but they're in their 40s and they've been together for years.
	So they're married.
	But the point is, she's heavily involved with reform as well.
	And she had a response to Rupert Lowe.
	And in fact, hers was the first response, I think.
	And I found it completely insufferable.
	And I couldn't understand why someone would act like this.
	Let's have a listen.
	Really sweet, isn't it?
	Poor little Rupert.
	He's quite new at politics.
	He's really new in the House of Commons.
	And, you know, this is what happens to people who are amateurs at politics and they become MPs.
	And suddenly they think, yay, look at me.
	I think I could be prime minister.
	They all do it.
	Bless him.
	Nigel has been in this game for decades.
	He has devoted the best part of his life to the causes that he pursues.
	He has taken reform to its highest ever position where it is in real prospect of being part or even running the next government.
	So I think Rupert just maybe needs to take a little step back and realize that there are 650 MPs in parliament and each and every one of them thinks that they could one day be a party leader or a prime minister.
	Well, he's just been a guest on Harry Cole, my colleague, Harry Cole's show just before this, the drivetime show here on talk.
	And his popularity was confirmed as soon as he comes on.
	You know, our viewing figures just rock it.
	I just think that what Mr. Farage should do, Nigel.
	Right, so that's a very peculiar thing, isn't it?
	So first things first, Rupert Lowe did not say anything about becoming the prime minister.
	So she has purportedly read his mind and decided, right, what Rupert Lowe is trying to do here with his reasonable criticisms of what reform need to do to actually form the next government is actually his attempt to knock off Farage from his top spot.
	She's assumed that what he's trying to do is overthrow Nigel.
	And she appears to be really smug about this.
	Really condescending.
	She sounds a lot like Owen Jones, weirdly enough.
	Doesn't she?
	Like the same tone, the same sort of condescending attitude, the same smugness.
	Really bizarre.
	Because it's like, Isabel, this is one of the MPs of your party.
	You're not an MP.
	You know, you don't even bear your husband's name.
	This is a really weird approach.
	And everyone was really baffled as to why she would act this way.
	Why are you being so hostile?
	Why are you being so belittling?
	Like, Rupert Lowe is an accomplished man.
	He's a very successful and wealthy businessman.
	And he's very popular with the base because he is saying the right things and trying to do the right things.
	He's the only reform MP who's regularly writing to like the parliamentary commission or whatever, saying, why don't we have data on this?
	Are we keeping the data on that?
	Could we keep, could we collect the data on these other things?
	He's actually doing stuff.
	He's giving his salary to charity.
	And so you say, well, he's a bit politically naive, isn't he?
	Oh, yeah, I think he might be actually.
	I think that I don't think he was quite aware of whom he was dealing with, actually.
	But anyway, so Nigel Farage responded to this.
	And again, there was this bizarre kind of fragility because when someone acts like this, what they're actually trying to do is cover up for something that is in themselves, a failing in themselves, right?
	And Nigel Farage, again, reacted with a bizarre kind of fragility.
	And there was just, oh, why?
	I mean, why react to it at all?
	Right?
	You could always say, look, I don't think of myself the Messiah.
	I think of myself as the leader of a party who's looking to form the next government.
	And actually, I think Rupert's got some good points.
	We are transforming into something bigger and better that's going to be here to stay.
	So, yeah, no, I appreciate Rupert's points.
	But then I suppose you wouldn't have been, you know, beating on the door trying to get a meeting with him if it was possible to do these things in private.
	So if Farage was even going to listen.
	But let's listen to this.
	But there's a lot of text coming in today about your old mate and colleague, Rupert Lowe.
	Now, he, I'm sure you've read it, it popped up in a rival newspaper we're not going to mention that wasn't the sun this morning.
	And he said, it's too early to know whether Nigel will deliver the goods.
	He can do, but he's a fiercely independent individual.
	And it's been good so far, but he has messianic qualities.
	But will these distill into leadership?
	I don't know.
	We have to change from being a protest party led by the Messiah, which I think is you, but you are a very naughty boy, to being properly structured party with a front bench, which we don't have.
	We need to start behaving as if we are leading and not merely protesting.
	Again, that's not an insult.
	That's not a challenge.
	That is a request to Nigel Farage to live up to the potential that he is advertising in his charismatic presence.
	I just can't understand why they acted with such fragility.
	Again, I've got no better word.
	It's like they don't believe it themselves or something.
	Anyway, this was Nigel's response.
	It's a shot across your bows, though, isn't it?
	We are not a protest party in any way at all.
	That is utterly wrong.
	Utterly, completely wrong.
	We are an entirely positive party.
	Come to any reform event and the positivity, the energy, and perhaps you should come to one or two.
	I've been.
	I came to your one in Birmingham.
	There was fireworks.
	Well, look, do you know what?
	If I've got a following out there, that's a good thing.
	If I hadn't, we wouldn't have won any seats in Parliament at all on the 4th of July.
	Including Great Yarmouth, I presume you put it in.
	That's chance in hell, wouldn't they?
	Come on, be honest about it.
	Well, he's not a protest party, and he's on the front bench.
	Yeah.
	So what's he talking about?
	So why does he seem so fragile?
	Why does he seem so upset?
	It's like when someone presents him with Tommy Robinson, he gets very flustered, very defensive.
	Why does he feel like this is outside of his control?
	Why does he feel like he can't weather this very mild line of questioning that conceals a great deal of praise for him?
	Like to say, oh, well, yeah, you've got a massive following.
	And actually, it's not just enough to go out in front of the cameras, wave your hands, and have everyone cheer for you.
	That's actually not enough.
	And Rupert's like, okay, well, I'm trying to put that across.
	And Nigel's just like, no, I've got a big following.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	With only five people, you can't really have a shadow cabinet, can you?
	Well, you can put the whole shadow cabinet in a taxi, can't you?
	We've got a lot of development to do, but we're absolutely not a protest party.
	And do you know something?
	If you saw the level of development we've undergone in the last eight months, we've created a constitution for the party.
	We've changed the share ownership and structure of the party.
	We've set up 400 branches around the country.
	Yeah, some are embryonic.
	And right now, within 10 yards of me, we are working hard to get 1,500 vetted candidates into the field for the English local elections on the 1st of April.
	So why is Rupert Lowe going public with these comments?
	There's not something better to be had behind closed doors.
	Well, perhaps he wants to be prime minister.
	Most people in politics do.
	Well, there we go.
	Rupert Lowe's trying to knock off Nigel Farage.
	That's in his mind as well.
	Rupert Lowe wasn't saying, look, if the party is going to succeed, you need to become something greater than you already are, Nige.
	No, you're just trying to take me out, aren't you, Rupert?
	That's what Nigel thinks.
	That's what Isabel Okashot thinks.
	It's this weird paranoia that seems to grip the reform top brass, which is very weird because I don't think that anyone thought that.
	I didn't take from anything Rupert Lowe has said that I'm going to try and take out Nigel Farage.
	Now, I wonder if he's paranoid because of his little contradiction, his argument with Elon Musk about what had to happen.
	And Elon Musk praised Rupert Lowe and said, no, Nigel Farage isn't the guy.
	Maybe that's made him paranoid with Rupert Lowe.
	I really don't see any reason to think otherwise, frankly.
	But anyway, then, so that was the sixth.
	And so it was just like, okay, well, this was a petty spat.
	Meant nothing, really, in the grand scheme of things.
	Maybe Niger listen.
	And actually, maybe he would think about, oh, yeah, well, actually, we do need to have like, you know, spokesperson for these.
	So they've got public figures for these sort of things.
	So we can fill a government with various different people.
	That would actually be a good idea.
	No, instead, they decided to kick Rupert Lowe out on allegations of bullying both Zia Youssef and apparently two unnamed women who are staff members.
	It's like, oh, okay, that's interesting.
	That explains the smug, doesn't it?
	Explains the smug.
	She knew, I think, that this was coming the day before.
	And so the next day, you're a political amateur, Rupert.
	That's a good point, Isabel.
	Good point.
	But anyway, so they regret to feel obligated to disclose that the party received complaints from two female employees about serious bullying in the offices of Rupert Lowe.
	One worked in his parliamentary office, the other in his constituency office.
	Now, I personally find this hard to believe, and we'll get onto why in a minute.
	But evidence was provided to us of workplace bullying, targeting female staff who raised concerns, evidence of derogatory and discriminatory remarks made about women, including a reference to a perceived disability.
	This is sounding a bit woke, to be honest, isn't it?
	We feel we have a duty of care to all of our staff, whether employed directly or indirectly.
	We have appointed an independent king's counsel, so that's basically a lawyer, to conduct an investigation into the veracities of these complaints.
	Today, Mr. Lowe has yet to cooperate with the investigation.
	In addition to these, Mr. Lowe has at least two occasions made threats of physical violence against our party chairman, who is Zia Youssef.
	And this matter is with the police.
	So, yeah, they've reported them to the police.
	Now, this is signed by Lee Anderson and Zia Youssef, the chief whip and the chairman.
	It's like, wow, okay, that's really interesting.
	So, not only did these two know about these allegations, and it's just coincidental.
	Obviously, it's not coincidental that they drop it afterwards.
	It seems that Isabel Oakshot also knew if the smirk on her face is anything to go by.
	And I'm not going to suggest for a second that Farage didn't already know.
	So, okay, this is interesting because these complaints were made three months ago.
	So, what they did is they got these complaints, quote unquote, sat on them for when it was politically convenient because they saw Rupert Lowe's rising star, they saw his popularity, and people have been predicting this for a long time now.
	It's only a matter of time until Farage throws him fully under the bus because Farage feels threatened by him.
	And here we are.
	When it was convenient, because Rupert Lowe had done a daily mail interview and said, Yeah, I think we need to get away from messianic politics a bit.
	Probably need to professionalize a protest party.
	We want to form government.
	Bam, straight under the bus.
	This quickly.
	It's like, wow, okay, that's report to the police.
	Like, how bad do they think this makes reform look, right?
	I mean, it's James McMurdo went to jail for beating his girlfriend 20 years ago or something.
	And the media never stopped giving them a hard time about it.
	They never stopped giving them a hard time.
	They're constantly, constantly going on about it.
	And now it's like, right, so that's now two-fifths of the party that is now in trouble with the law.
	So when Richard Tyson's like, well, we don't want that Tommy Robinson guy.
	He's got a criminal record.
	Well, so the two-fifths of your party doesn't actually seem to be, you know, you seem to be contributing to this.
	Like, this is a series of headlines that shouldn't have happened, didn't need to happen, but are definitely souring the public perspective on the reform brand itself.
	This was really, really silly, just to be clear.
	This headline should never have happened.
	Reform UK, refer MP Rupert Lowe to police.
	Are you mental?
	This was an abominable choice to take.
	Like, if you had to do this, right, three months later for some reason, do it at least a couple of weeks later.
	Like, Isabel looks up being like, oh, Rupert Lowe, he's a naive political amateur.
	Well, so you guys, frankly.
	You are naive political amateurs if you think this was smart to do the day after he was critical.
	Like, you are.
	This is really silly.
	And again, I'm saying this as a piece of advice to you.
	Be more serious.
	This was bad, right?
	This is just terrible.
	Anyway, so Rupert Lowe was then also accused of manhandling a labor minister called what was his name?
	He's a really small little guy.
	I can't remember the guy's name.
	Why can't I say it?
	His name is out there.
	I can't remember what it is now.
	For some reason, GB News is broken.
	But anyway, a Labour minister claims that Rupert Lowe manhandled him.
	Now, Rupert Lowe, don't get me wrong, I'm sure is an absolute Chad, but he's also 67.
	So I feel that these sort of allegations of physical bullying are probably slightly suspect.
	Not to say that, again, Rupert isn't in fine health or an absolute strapping example of a man or anything, but like he is 67.
	I feel that maybe him physically beating Labour Party members in the House of Commons, probably not that likely.
	Also, why would a Labour minister wait three months before making this allegation?
	What would be in it for them to wait?
	Why wouldn't they make the allegation the day it happened, allegedly?
	Why would they wait?
	Why would they say no?
	They'd be like, oh, wait, wait, wait, Farage is thrown low under the bus.
	Great.
	Let me slap out my allegation as well.
	I'm a bit sus on that, right?
	And I find that that's not entirely convincing.
	And I can't help but feel that given everything else that's happening, it seems there's a great deal of shenanigans going on.
	And actually, Rupert appears to be the person who's acting honestly, right?
	And this seems to be getting him thrown under the bus.
	Anyway, Lee Anderson, the party whip, put out a statement saying, at Reform UK, we have the monumental task on our hands to save the country.
	There's a huge amount of pressure on Nigel and our team.
	Notice how Nigel being the messiah, singled out, to deliver for the British public.
	I did not come into politics for personal gain, and like my colleagues, I stepped forward because I wanted to help save my country.
	Joining reform is the best thing I've ever done in politics, and this is our last chance to turn things around in the country.
	But politics is a team game, and we must work as a team.
	Then why are you backstabbing one of the five MPs that you had?
	Now only four.
	Why would you backstab people like this?
	Just take the criticism.
	Like you could have parlayed this into a wind of change.
	Say, yeah, no, we are like transcending what we were and becoming that kind of full-bore broad tent party like Donald Trump had done in America.
	That you could have done that.
	Instead, you all battened down the hatches, brought up the drawbridges, and were like, no, even you're out now, Rupert Lowe, for daring to criticize Nigel Farage and the structure of the party itself.
	Just like Ben Habib, just like whoever's next.
	In fact, just like, I mean, my guys didn't even criticize you, but Dan Tubbs and Bo Dade both got deselected from reform for quoting from the reform manifesto because the media was like, oh, look at this guy.
	He's saying he'll do what reforms say they'll do.
	And Tice was like, right, you're out.
	You know, but we didn't bear a grudge.
	We were like, okay, well, you're a pussy.
	You know, hope not hate or upset.
	And Richard Tice has got to bend the knee.
	I was definitely going to try and do this more diplomatically, but it's really annoying me, frankly, at this point.
	Anyway, I'm trying to be diplomatic.
	But they've burned up so much goddamn goodwill.
	It's difficult to muster it.
	Anyway, he says, politics is a team game.
	We must work as a team.
	I was the first ever Reform UK MP.
	And my first, that's because you're defective from the Tories.
	Well, they got kicked out of the Tories.
	And my first loyalty will always be to my country.
	I have a great deal of respect for Rupert Lowe and as a cheap whip.
	I've bent over backwards to be fair with him since he entered Parliament.
	But his unwillingness to cooperate in investigation to his behavior has meant that we can't function effectively while he's an MP, a reform MP.
	It's like, well, the thing is, Rupert said that's not true.
	And I've tried to do everything they've, you know, he says all of this is untrue and is the opposite of what he feels that has happened, right?
	But anyway, he says, look, there's far too much at stake.
	And by not taking decisive action, we'd risk losing everything we'd built up.
	I bear no malice towards Rupert.
	And to remove the whip was a deeply painful thing to do, but delivering for our country must come first.
	No man is bigger than our party.
	Well, I don't think that's what Rupert was saying.
	And actually, you've kind of already said there is a man that's bigger than the party.
	There's the man, there's the party, right?
	So don't give me that, Lee.
	Everyone can see through this, to be honest, Lee.
	And I'm just kind of tired of these games.
	I think everyone's tired of these games as well.
	Because again, it looks like Rupert just got absolutely stabbed in the back with a bunch of false and defamatory allegations.
	Like, Rupert is not acting as if he's guilty, right?
	He's acting as if he's not guilty.
	And he seems to be absolutely taking it to you.
	And the thing is, Richard Lee Anderson himself has had to apologise to the House of Commons for being in breach of Parliament's bullying and harassment policy.
	So you'd think he'd know how it feels.
	Because I'm sure that wasn't true either.
	But anyway, Rupert says, look, the lawyer that has been assigned to me has been instructed, as instructed by Reform, has advised me to say, quote, the party was precipitous to state that these allegations had been made without also saying that the party has commissioned an independent investigation and the investigation has not yet gotten away to look into all the evidence and evaluate its veracity.
	That tells you everything you need to know.
	So they hadn't done any of the necessary groundwork in order to do the thing that they've done.
	And so now they're probably legally liable.
	Rupert appears to be taking legal advice.
	It's entirely possible he can sue them for the things they have said about him, the allegations they're making about him.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I don't know what it is.
	Maybe Rupert Lowe went in there like an absolute bull in a China shop and was just lamping Labour MPs left, right, and center, you know, swearing misogynistically at women non-stop, right?
	Maybe that's the case.
	Or maybe the smirking Isabel Oakshop gave the game away.
	And the fact that all of this is happening and Rupert's just like, Jesus, I didn't see any of this coming.
	Maybe that's it as well.
	Anyway, so Nigel finally put out a statement on Rupert Lowe.
	And he says, if the last general election has taught us anything, it's the public does not like political parties that engage in constant fight infighting.
	The never-ending civil war that came to define the Conservative government resulted in a loveless, though large Labour majority that Britain has settled with today, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	Right.
	Now, thanks to one of our MPs, Rupert Lowe, unloading a barrage of criticisms against our operation and its main actors.
	That sense of unity has been dented.
	It's like, oh, this didn't come out of nowhere, did it?
	And look at the framing: a barrage of criticisms.
	Well, I mean, they were reasonable criticisms that many other people had made, myself included, because, and we're people who want, like, as if as if Rupert Lowe doesn't want to see reform win, right?
	Obviously, he wants to see them win.
	If you're in one position and you need to get to another position, and something is necessary to get to that other position, and you're not doing it, you're constantly banging into a goddamn wall.
	It's like, look, okay, you need to get a ladder to climb over it.
	And they're like, look at these barracks of criticisms against our position.
	It's like, no, that's not what that is.
	Right?
	Criticism is a constructive thing if you don't actually just react in the most horrified way.
	Anyway, he says, what people may not have realized, however, is in that time he had also managed to fall out with his parliamentary colleagues in one way or another.
	We did our best to keep a lid on things, but in the end, containment strategies invariably fail.
	One clear example was of the type of difficulty I have in mind occurred in the Chamber of the House of Commons.
	It was the parliamentary debate of the year.
	Mr. Lowe represents great Yamathas, Mike Kane, the transport minister, that's the guy.
	And he says how he crossed the floor, and this is where the sergeant-at-arms had to step in.
	Again, I don't know what the deal with that is.
	We don't know.
	This is just an allegation.
	Maybe 67-year-old Rupert Lowe was over there strangling Mike Kane because he saw the red rose just like ah, went mad.
	Who knows, right?
	But this is what he's saying is, oh, this is a pattern of behavior from Mr. Lowe.
	Too many outbursts of him, too much inappropriate language to the despair of our chief whip, Lee Anderson.
	Okay.
	This is the first we're hearing of it, but yeah, okay.
	Mike Lowe, Mike Lowe, Mike, what's his name?
	He's such an unmemorable guy.
	I can't remember his goddamn name.
	I can't find his name, Mike Kane.
	Decided to sit on it for months out of dignity.
	I don't know.
	What would be the point?
	But anyway, so basically, he just goes on and throws him under the bus, right?
	So he just completely throws him under the bus.
	And it's like, right.
	Okay.
	So that's fine.
	Nice.
	Right.
	We get it.
	We get it.
	Even your own MPs are not allowed to raise a criticism of Nigel Farage and the Holy Reform Party.
	Right?
	You guys have done everything 100% correctly.
	No mistakes whatsoever.
	There's nothing you can do better.
	And so any criticism of you is just off limits.
	Understood.
	Understood.
	Now, lots of other people have noticed that, well, there have been tensions, but has it gone the way that you think?
	I mean, you've got Tim Montgomery, who's the founder of Conservative Home, ended up affecting to reform recently.
	And he's noticed that, you know, there are definitely tensions between Farage and Rupert Lowe.
	Well, I mean, if you've seen Rupert Lowe in interviews, he's quite a congenial man, right?
	He seems pretty agreeable, actually, in many ways.
	Is Farage?
	We'll get onto that in a bit.
	Anyway, so one thing that happened is that lots of people started coming out and giving Rupert Lowe character endorsements, as in they as character witnesses.
	You've got Clarissa who says, Look, I've known Rupert Lowe for 45 years, worked for him years ago, the only girl in the office.
	He's an old school, consummate gentleman, courteous, clever, driven, humorous, humane, patriot, and idealist, a family man with a happy, close family.
	He's found his vocation as an MP.
	You almost are lucky to have him.
	Don't believe the vicious manufactured nonsense from Reform for a split second.
	You also had Matt Letizier come out, which I saw briefly before I started the stream, where he said, look, Rupert Lowe owned Southampton FC while he was a player there.
	And if Rupert Lowe was up there beating people up, that would be dramatically out of character from what he saw when he was in Southampton.
	One thing you don't see is people giving Nigel Farage character references, right?
	No one actually comes out and says, oh, Nigel's character is great.
	In fact, you can go easily go through Nigel's history and find lots of people who do not have very nice things to say about him.
	Now, I didn't want to bring this up.
	I don't want to bring all of this up, but like Reform are going on a, and Farage and Reform are going on a non-stop character assassination for Rupert Lowe, where it doesn't seem warranted.
	And it seems that actually, if anyone's got questionable character, well, lots of people have said it's you, Nige.
	And when I was in UKIP, I met lots and lots of people who had worked with Nigel for 25 plus years, and they all confirmed all of this.
	Like, they all said Nigel Farage is a bit of a diva, frankly.
	Now, there's nothing wrong, actually, with being a bit of a diva, right?
	You are the box office, you are the drawer, you are the messianic, charismatic front man.
	That's fine.
	That's okay.
	It's useful, in fact, many times to bring lots of people on side to get them to go to a certain destination, right?
	That's fine.
	But you have to learn, if you don't personally want to deal with the plebs yourself, then you have to delegate.
	You have to get someone who's good at dealing with people.
	If Nigel Farage is not a coalition builder, which he's clearly not, and that's fine, get someone who is, right?
	Get someone who is.
	And we'll get on to who he got to be his coalition builder in a minute.
	But anyway, as UKIP economic spokesman, again, look, UKIP had one.
	So if UKIP had won a massive victory, who's Chancellor of the Exchequer?
	Well, you would have expected Patrick O'Flynn.
	Now, I don't know anything about Patrick O'Flynn.
	Maybe he's an expert economist or something.
	So at least he could have gone on TV and explained why Britain's an economic woes and what could be done to fix it, right?
	So the public have a familiar face, a reliable figure, someone who could potentially fill the role and sensibly fill the role.
	Anyway, he says that, no, Farage was a snarling, thin-skinned, and aggressive man.
	Well, yeah, we are seeing a lot of that, actually, aren't we?
	We are seeing a lot of snarling, thin-skinned aggressiveness towards his own MPs who he has character assassinated, reported to the police, and thrown under the bus.
	Right.
	Great.
	That's just, that's just brilliant.
	Anyway, so Tim Montgomery again from Conservative Home.
	They've been going after Ben Habib for quite some time.
	Because Ben Habib has been like, look, you said you're going to democracy.
	There are problems with the party.
	This needs to be addressed before.
	And, well, now you have another one.
	So it's not just Ben Habib.
	It's now also Rupert Lowe.
	So you've got these kind of ultra-Farage loyalists.
	And then you've got people who signed on, not necessarily as equals, but as respected partners in the enterprise, right?
	So you've got people like Tim Montgomery who will say literally this, right?
	Your failure to recognize Nigel's almost unique potency in British politics is sad, wrong, and damaging.
	So Tim Montgomery is just coming out here and saying, no, Nigel is the Messiah.
	His almost unique potency.
	Okay.
	Jesus Christ, man.
	You know, I mean, don't be wrong.
	I think he's a great orator as well.
	And, you know, when he's on TV, I find him likable.
	Calm down.
	Like, you know, he isn't actually a Messiah, Tim.
	But this is the kind of person that Nigel Farage is now surrounded by.
	People who can only speak praise to him in the most unflattering of ways, frankly.
	I mean, you get, you know, Lick Spittles like Nicholas Lissack here, who their entire Twitter feed is just a cavalcade of embarrassing posts.
	I mean, look at this.
	I'm standing firm with Reform UK.
	Our mission is clear to deliver a patriotic government by 2029.
	And we will.
	There's a tough road ahead, but together we can make Britain great again.
	I have complete faith in Nigel Farage and our incredible political family.
	It's like, look, man, there are legitimate criticisms to be had about Nigel Farage, as anyone else, right?
	To put out this one-sided, just embarrassingly brown-nosing, again, just Lick Spittle is the only way I can think to describe it.
	It's just an embarrassing thing, right?
	It's cringe to watch.
	And everyone looks at it and thinks, right, so you are just, I mean, this is very much the Thomas Soule position, right?
	This is very much the Thomas Soul, the old Thomas Soule quote.
	If you want to help people, you tell them what they don't want to hear.
	If you want to help yourself, you tell them what they do want to hear.
	And so what's which is Tim Montgomery and Nicholas Lissack here?
	Which side have they chosen?
	Well, they haven't chosen the help them.
	They've chosen the help themselves side.
	It's like, that's very interesting.
	Because on the other side, you've got the, I want to help other people, Ben Habib and Rupert Lowe, right?
	These are the two camps that have distinguished themselves in reform.
	And I don't really like the Lick Spittles.
	I'm very tired of these kind of servile worm tongue type people.
	I really don't like them.
	Anyway, so a lot of people are saying, well, what's Zia Yousaf's role in this?
	Because of course he was signed off on the letter, throwing him under the bus.
	And Zia Youssef is claiming that he was bullied by Rupert Lowe, which, I mean, embarrassing for an adult man to say, but okay, interesting.
	So Zia Youssef, probably like 39, 40 years old, got bullied by a retiree.
	And this is something that people have questioned, because of course, remember, Zia Youssef just bought his way to the chairman of the party.
	Nigel Farage met him, was somehow bowled over by him, gave Nigel Farage a £200,000 donation.
	Suddenly Zia Yousuf is the chairman of the party.
	And suddenly, he's starting to just cut out people.
	A good example of this is Gwen Towler.
	Now, Gwain Towler, I met him when he was in UKIP.
	Really, really nice chap.
	Really loyal chap.
	Really, the kind of loyalty you just can't buy, actually.
	And when he got chucked out of reform from being their press officer, again, Gwene, an absolute veteran of this, knows exactly how to deal with the media.
	But Zia Youssef gets rid of him anyway.
	Why would you do that?
	Why would you get rid of a man who's clearly an asset to Nigel Farage and reform?
	What would be the purpose unless you were consolidating power internally, making sure there was no dissent against the current order in order to make sure Nigel Farage can never be replaced?
	Now, I don't think Nigel Farage should be replaced.
	I don't think there's any possibility of Nigel Farage being replaced.
	Because remember, Nigel Farage does have the legend in the mind of the common person.
	He is Nigel Farage.
	He's Mr. Brexit.
	He's the orator.
	He goes out there and leads the charge.
	That's fine.
	That's totally fine.
	No one wants to replace Nigel Farage.
	No one even said anything about it.
	Like, Rupert Lowe didn't say anything about it.
	Ben Habib didn't say anything about it.
	But the first thing, well, they all think they want to be prime minister.
	No, actually, I think a lot of people don't want to be prime minister because actually being prime minister looks like a really crap job, right?
	It looks really difficult.
	It looks really unthankful, thankless.
	It looks like, I mean, I've seen lots of prime ministers doing it.
	I didn't fancy the job for myself.
	You know what I mean?
	It doesn't look fun.
	But anyway, so it looks like Zee Yousaf is the man who's salami slicing off those old or maybe not, you know, cult-like aspects of reform that aren't just paying non-stop fealty to Farage, which is brilliant.
	I mean, Ben Habib thinks that this is the case and thinks that Nigel Farage should sack Zia Youssef because he suspects that the claims against Rupert Lowe are entirely trumped up, which I suspect as well.
	And Rupert Lowe said basically the same thing.
	And Nigel Farrell needs to take back control of reform and sack Zia Youssef.
	But the thing is, I'm not prepared to concede that this isn't exactly what Nigel Farage told him to do.
	I think he did tell him to do all this.
	I think he said, make sure that none of them can essentially unseat me from this.
	Because I remember him praising Gert Vilders and the way that his party was structured.
	And like I said at the beginning, I don't even have a problem with that.
	I would actually kind of, I'm kind of sick of this bizarre insecurity in Nigel Farage, his team, and reform, where they can't take any criticism whatsoever.
	So, I mean, I said to Richard Tice, look, Richard, stop taking advice from hope, not hate.
	Not only are they communists doing everything they can to destroy you, no one respects their position.
	No one respects their ideology.
	No one respects their reporting.
	Everyone knows that they are just a subversive partisan outlet that are trying to destroy us.
	Why listen to them at all?
	And Richard Tice blocked me for that.
	It was like, oh, okay.
	And I'm blocked to this day.
	It's like, oh, okay, Richard, whatever.
	He used to follow me.
	But now I'm blocked.
	So it's like, okay, great.
	Well, don't worry about it then.
	You know, again, the incredible fragility, these people.
	But what they've done is the complete opposite of Donald Trump, right?
	And we'll end by talking about some Donald Trump's technique, right?
	This is nine years ago.
	So in 2016 at the Republican primaries, where Donald Trump is absolutely chewing out Marco Rubio, right?
	He is just little Marco.
	I can't do the impression, but you know what I mean?
	Like, he was just absolutely, and they were going hammer and tongs.
	I was like, okay, it's a primary debate.
	That's kind of what you expect, right?
	So what happened to Marco Rubio?
	I suppose he was thrown under the bus and never seen from again.
	No, he's currently the Secretary of State for Donald Trump, actually, because actually Donald Trump is able to build coalitions.
	He's able to himself accept that he has transcended the need to be the messianic figure.
	Because, of course, Trump began as the messianic figure, right?
	He fought relentlessly through the Republican primaries, annihilated every single one of the old Republicans and took control of the party.
	And because he was so on brand, on message, consistent, he became the unquestioned heart of the Republican Party.
	He is the king of the Republican Party and everyone knows it.
	Okay, that's great.
	So what can Donald Trump do now he feels secure in his position?
	Well, he can create a very broad tent.
	Don't need just hardcore party loyalists, right?
	You can have a much broader range of people, some of whom will be critical, some of whom will be like insane sycophants.
	But you can have this massive movement that all accept that all accept you're the guy in charge and no one is trying to overthrow Donald Trump.
	And when Ron DeSantis ran in 2020, man, that was not good, was it?
	That went badly for Ron DeSantis.
	And I say this as someone who is a deep sympathizer of what Ron Desantis has done in Florida and is personally friends with many of his advisors and campaign staff, right?
	Like, these are good guys, and they just moved at the wrong time.
	And I did tell them at the time, like, look, now's not the time.
	This is still Trump's story.
	You guys have got to let it go.
	They didn't.
	And Ron DeSantis got a bloodied nose out of it, right?
	So not good.
	That's what would happen to anyone who would challenge Farage if Farage didn't have this bizarre ivory tower mentality that was just no.
	We're trying to save the country.
	It's like, well, who's we in this?
	Right.
	So, okay.
	No, it's now the four reform MPs are trying to save the country.
	Like, right.
	Okay.
	And do you want to talk about, do you want to talk about any, talk to any friendly media?
	No.
	Do you want to have friendly activists working for you?
	No.
	Do you want to have us help your branches or anything like that?
	No.
	We don't want anything to do with any of you lot.
	Okay.
	There are millions of us and we vote.
	Who do you think you're appealing to?
	Like, don't know.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, I guess we'll just stand back and let you do it then.
	Go on, get on with it.
	We're going to be watching him very, very judgmental and critical now because you've made enemies of us because you've treated us like fucking shit.
	And no one understands why.
	No one understands why you keep treating people like shit because it doesn't make any sense.
	It seems that you're afraid.
	And the first thing Farage and Isabel Oakshot jumped to is, oh, he's trying to become prime minister, meaning he's trying to overthrow Farage.
	No.
	Everyone accepts that Nigel Farage is the legitimate king of reform.
	Everyone accepts that Nigel Farage is the guy in charge of the party.
	We're all happy to stand behind you on this, like all of the Republicans do now with Trump and say, no, Trump is the guy, and we're all 100% on his agenda to fix the country.
	We'd say that for Farage.
	If Farage would just stop slapping us in the face and telling us to fuck off, we would happily support him.
	But no, okay, you're carrying all of this yourself, Nigel.
	This is why you look so tired.
	This is why you're so stressed out.
	This is why you're so embattled.
	You have no champions who are prepared to go out and fight on your behalf for your cause.
	You have exiled them all.
	You've thrown them all under the bus.
	You've treated them all like shit.
	You've told everyone that they're all bad people.
	And it's like, okay, but you understand even like, this is why when Richard Tyson is like, no, no, we don't agree with Tommy.
	We agree with ourselves.
	And the news anchors are like, what does that mean?
	You both agree on this same thing because what he believes is a reflection of what you believe and does make people infer a connection, even if it's just ideological.
	And this does call into question like character and beliefs and politics.
	If you can't own any of this, then you're going to find it a very, very lonely journey.
	And when you are, when you win, and I think that you still could, you know, I don't think this is going to be a massive dent in their polls or anything.
	What I think is going to happen is that you're going to find yourself with fucking idiots around you.
	Absolute lick spittles like Lissack and Tim Montgomery and all the others.
	Like people who are just not competent, right?
	People who are just not only are they not competent, they got to where they are by brown nosing.
	And this means that when something goes horribly wrong, they won't tell you.
	They're not going to be like, oh, Nige, you've screwed up here, mate.
	By the way, you've really screwed this up.
	You need to do this, this, and this, or else things are going to go south.
	They're not going to do that.
	They're going to be like, oh, no, I think that's the right thing to do.
	Whatever you've said, yeah, that's the right thing to do.
	It'll just be you surrounded by yes men.
	That doesn't exactly speak to the great character of a great leader, right?
	Like great leaders are not normally surrounded by yes men.
	Actually, they're normally surrounded by people who can give them an honest opinion on what's going on without expecting to be thrown under the goddamn bus.
	That's how great leaders really succeed.
	But anyway, I've probably burned enough bridges there.
	So go and buy Islander.
	It's excellent.
	Really, really good.
	People are already getting their copies.
	So the delivery has been sorted out.
	And remember, this will only be on sale for now.
	So get it while you can.
	Like I said, I really didn't have to do this stream.
	Really didn't want to have to talk about this.
	Like, I just, I just want Nigel to move into the mold of the Universal King, basically.
	Become the leader that we actually need.
	So we can just get behind you and say, yep, no, Nigel.
	So then say, Nigel said this.
	What do you think about it?
	Yeah, no, I agree with him.
	And for these reasons, this is why he's right.
	So we can constantly back him up.
	But he seems to be insisting on saying, no, I don't want anyone coming anywhere near me.
	It's going to be me and my servile yes men who are going to come and do this.
	And that's it.
	It's like, okay, well, good luck, man.
	You know, you're on your own then.
	I'm, you know, I don't see why I should help you.
	And that's assuming that you don't do something I find personally offensive at this point and become just an active campaigner against you.
	You know, like that's what's going to happen.
	There are now people, like with Boris, right?
	Boris used to be really popular.
	Boris Wave happened, betrayed the entire country.
	Now we all actively campaign against Boris.
	I don't want to actively campaign against Farage.
	I wanted Farage to win, but like, you know, goddamn, man.
	Anyway, let's go through some super chats.
	Lyle says, you know, 10 years ago when the Brexit reform happened, shit was at least looking good for Britain.
	Now it looks like everyone but the UK is going to start unscrewing themselves.
	Yeah, I know.
	Well, that's the Conservatives' fault.
	Not like the Labour would have done any better.
	And this is another thing as well.
	Like, Nigel, for some reason on the Brexit thing, Nigel's always like, well, Brexit was a success.
	It's like, well, it could have been a success, but you should just be like the Conservatives ruined it.
	We're still free.
	And we could fix this anytime we want.
	But until we get a reform government, that's not going to happen.
	Possible pilot deviation says, I ordered two copies of Islander 3, one for reading, one for collecting.
	I'm a bit bizarre that way.
	Love your work.
	Dear's full.
	No, no, I do understand actually.
	I'm quite rough with books.
	I read aggressively.
	I don't even realize I'm doing it.
	And I'll bend the pages to in you know, so I can the light doesn't shine on them or whatever, you know, however it is.
	I end up ruining the spines of things and end up, you know, I'll make notes on it if I want to make notes on it.
	So I actually completely understand keeping a pristine copy that you don't read in order not to ruin the copy you actually do.
	Dr. Big Sey says, I'm American and I don't get the Tommy hate.
	Yeah, I know.
	You haven't been subjected to nearly 20 years of non-stop anti-Tommy propaganda, which the average person has been.
	And so, you know, there we go.
	Happy Cursed Plague Docs says, I think this event would be a good roundtable talk on the Lotus Cases, to be honest, to get everyone's take on the event.
	Yeah, we're going to do something, no doubt.
	Matt says, I think Lowe might come on the podcast now he's been fired.
	Well, I did actually ask him before he'd been fired and couldn't.
	But I don't know.
	I don't want to, you know, I'm not putting any pressure on anyone or anything like that.
	Apart from Nigel Farage, just because, right, again, this is just a quick thing.
	Nige might be thinking, oh my God, right, okay, well, that's that bridge burned.
	That can never, no, no.
	Like, you know, Marco, little Marco Rubio is now Trump's Secretary of State.
	The bridges are never burned.
	All you have to do is just charm people a little.
	Just come on and say, look, I actually really value what you've done.
	And I would like it if you would come and help me in the future.
	And, you know, I want you to, you know, I will take any criticism you have on board.
	And that's it.
	You know, like, you don't have to act on it.
	People just have to feel heard.
	And actually, I mean, don't get wrong.
	On Rupert Lowe's criticism, you do want to act on for your best interests, in the best interest of reform that you want to act on this.
	But you, all of these bridges are completely unburnable.
	Like any point, Farage can be like, you know what?
	I shouldn't have kept everyone out.
	I don't know why I was.
	I don't know why I was carrying all this myself.
	I'd like everyone's help.
	And everyone would rush to help.
	Because there are literally dozens and dozens of really high-quality, like right-wingers in the non-establishment right-wing space.
	You see them all the time.
	You see them on GB News.
	You see them on podcasts.
	You see them doing, you know, as advisors and things like that.
	There are loads and loads of great people.
	And I know loads of them.
	And none of them are working with reform.
	Like, none of them work with reform.
	Like, you know, like spads and things like this.
	Like, none of them work in reform.
	It's like, why?
	Like, there are really clever, experienced, decent, hard-working, loyal people.
	And Nigel has tapped none of them up.
	And it's like, okay, I can't even imagine why.
	You know, but anyway, here we are.
	Brown Cow says, Farage is just a Tory.
	The insane idea that the Bank of Values GDP above all will save the nation is insane.
	If he could have it his way, we would be South Korea, no immigrants, but working as serfs.
	You know, I don't think that's entirely charitable.
	I wouldn't, I wouldn't go that far.
	But, I mean, he is a Thatcherite, right?
	He is a Thatcherite.
	But I don't think he's as I don't.
	I mean, when he was first joined UKIP, he asked for Enoch Powell's endorsement.
	So, you know, I don't know how Thatcherite is at the bottom, but like, again, I don't want to, I don't want to guess.
	It doesn't really matter.
	You know, what matters is that Farage is in the position now to win it all.
	So I wish he would just do the things needed to win it, like, and to actually succeed when he wins.
	Because the thing is, I think he probably will still win.
	I don't think there's going to be a huge polling drop or anything.
	Although maybe it is.
	You know, maybe like, you know, this shit show ends up knocking a few points off their polling or something.
	Who knows?
	But I don't think that's the case.
	I think what it is is that when he gets into government, he just won't know what he's doing and he won't have any support.
	Won't have any clever, competent, useful, loyal people to get the job done.
	And so he will just sit there and waste five years of our time, retire, and that'll just be another, like, like Boris with his 380 majority, there'll be another wasted opportunity to save the country from destruction.
	Right?
	That's what.
	And I'm so tired of us wasting these opportunities.
	I mean, they'll talk the talk.
	But well, you know, all of these things are too important.
	We've got to think of the future of the country.
	It's like, and why are you bickering and throwing Rupert Lowe under the bus over mild criticism in the Daily Mail?
	If you'd literally not responded to it, nothing would have happened.
	Next day, nothing would have happened.
	Next day after that, nothing would have happened.
	A week after that, everyone would have forgotten about it.
	People are like, did Rupert Lowe say that?
	Wow, I didn't know that.
	Five years down the line, you know.
	But if you'd not responded, nothing would have happened.
	But now you're in a shit show of your own making.
	And you could literally have just taken it on the chin and be like, yeah, that's a good point.
	We're going to work on that.
	Thanks to Rupert.
	Much appreciated.
	Vitaly says, Hi, Carly's still talking to Sitchin Adam these days.
	I haven't spoken in ages, actually.
	I might give him a DM.
	Imagine if Trump did this with Vance.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
	Vitaly says, also, I like the letters he's doing, but what happened to the regular book clubs, Rumble Streams, and Waffs?
	Feels like it's just lads out now.
	Yeah, sorry.
	We're working on a series of documentaries at the moment.
	So rather than producing like, you know, regular, lower quality work, we're going to work for this year.
	We're going to be publishing less frequent but much higher quality stuff.
	Although we are going to still do book clubs and stuff and the roundtables.
	We will definitely do a roundtable next week.
	Duke says, treat the Muslims how the Romans treat the Christians.
	Okay.
	Gans.
	I mean, remember, the Christians defeated the Romans.
	So, I don't know if that's the best suggestion.
	Ganson Jack says, Nigel Farage is a great campaigner and figurehead, but piss poor when it's life policy.
	He doesn't understand how to handle a victory.
	And that's kind of the position we're in, right?
	It's kind of the position we're in.
	He's still in campaign mode, worrying about fending off challenges to his leadership.
	But there are no challenges to his leadership.
	No one's trying to take over Nigel Spots.
	Everyone accepts Nigel's the guy in charge.
	So, Nigel, we would like you to transcend into that universal archetype that Trump moved into.
	No, I'm the king of the right, and you're all going to follow me, and you've all got a place in my movement.
	That's what Trump did.
	I mean, Trump had like the social media influencers, he had like, you know, like the mixed martial artist guys, you know, he had everything.
	He went on Joe Rogan, you know, like he basically was saying when he goes on these things, when he goes to like, you know, the mixed martial art competitions with Dana White, like what he's saying is, I anoint you.
	I accept you, I anoint you into our movement with that.
	And Farage doesn't do anything.
	Farage goes on Sky News or the BBC or something like that.
	Question time.
	He's like, then why aren't you anointing everyone in Britain as your man?
	Like, this is what he's doing when he goes on.
	He's like dubbing them his knight.
	You know, who'll then go out and fight in his cause when like Trump goes on Alex Jones in 2016 or whatever.
	That's what he's doing.
	And Alex Jones has been a hardcore Trump partisan ever since.
	Like, Nigel Farage just doesn't understand how the game works somehow.
	Anyway, Lord of the Nerd says, if a man is more important than the constituency, then the man does not have a constituency.
	He has servants.
	True.
	Rick says, Hi, Carl.
	Just want to say hi.
	Been watching since 2015.
	Made me a wiser man through the years.
	Love the Lotus Eaters.
	Thanks.
	Keep it up.
	And shout out to V. Oh, thank you very much.
	Very kind.
	Lord of the Nerd says, Farage is a vampire that sucks both the life's blood and soul out of any right-wing figure he can do to sustain his position as a vampire overlord.
	I think that's putting it too strongly, but he's definitely stepped on a lot of people on his way up, and lots and lots of people are resentful of him at this point.
	And that's very upsetting, frankly.
	And there's no need for it either.
	No need for it.
	Spinner Pete says, Hi, Carl.
	My Caroo Media passed on.
	I looked up the chat with him and it's gone.
	Please upload again.
	I don't have a copy of it, I'm afraid, and I didn't know he passed on.
	Sorry to hear that.
	I really enjoyed his videos.
	So I'm afraid he'll be on BitChute or something like that.
	So you'll have to find it there.
	Insane Hippie says, Farage is nothing but controlled opposition.
	Yeah, I'm sick of the term controller position.
	I'm just tired of hearing the word.
	No, Farage is afraid and insecure for his position as a leader of reform for some reason.
	I don't know why.
	No one contests that Nigel's the guy in charge.
	I don't know why he's insecure about any of this.
	There's no reason for it at all.
	And no one's trying to unhorse him.
	That's the thing.
	Sagey says, comes across a man who wants all the control and sounds speed and direction, but doesn't have the spine to commit.
	Now that he's got everything ready.
	It's not only that, like, he just seems to think he's going to be able to get yes men to do the things that need to be done.
	It's like, no, they're going to have to contradict you at some point.
	They're going to have to come out and give you contradictory information.
	And you're going to have to accept that.
	You're going to have to accept criticism.
	And this is just what being a leader is.
	This is just what being a person in charge is.
	And I know this from my own business.
	You know, you have to accept criticism.
	Fred says, if you don't buy Islander, you're vegan.
	That's true, actually.
	Scientifically proven.
	Ori says, into the trash reform UK goes.
	Times for the Return British Party with Bo Carl Lowe, etc.
	Manhandling the Strength Lacklings.
	Yeah, I don't.
	Now isn't the time.
	Farage is sucking up the energy.
	Let him screw it up.
	It's basically going to be the only thing we can do for now.
	It's just too much work and too much too much watering down of the right-wing vote because the right-wing vote is not the majority of the country, remember the left have been in control of the schools for decades, and I don't think it'll just be another labor landslide if we undermine reform, frankly, if we try and compete directly against reform.
	I think the best thing we can do is try and provide honest criticism with the intention of improving reform so the reform can get a majority and actually govern effectively.
	Russian says, I'm in the pub with a bunch of Lotuses fans and we're totally not preparing for the upcoming David Betz war situation.
	They all say hi.
	Well, hey to you guys too.
	Matthew says Enon was right about Farage, not a leader.
	Weak happy curse play doctor says this event was so funny.
	Even the Green Party and the left-wing parties are telling Nigel to delegate power to his MPs and stop hoarding it.
	I haven't actually seen that, but you can imagine the field day they're having with this.
	You know, there is not going to be a party of the lotus eaters either, based ape.
	Cameron says, I think a worm tongue is whispering into Nigel's ear.
	The thing is, Nigel's always been this way.
	That's the thing.
	He's always been this way.
	Niotsu says, I think Trump's ever able to make coalitions because he can lead a group of people to run his businesses.
	Whereas I think Nigel lacks that experience.
	Yeah, Nigel has been for like 30 years now just a kind of a media figure, right?
	And like the party leader.
	He's not actually had to run businesses.
	So I'm not surprised that he doesn't have experience of this.
	He should definitely, like, Rupert Lowe and Ben Habi both are businessmen.
	They both understand how this works.
	It's not just, I'm the D leader and you do as I say, or else, right?
	That's not how these things work.
	And if Farage doesn't understand that, that's quite frustrating.
	And why, frankly, Farage should have been Prime Minister a decade ago.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, he should have been Prime Minister after the Brexit vote.
	Anyway, quit making plans for Nigel.
	Well, you know, I wish Nigel would make plans for Nigel.
	Dream says, if Nigel Farage gets voted in, it won't be because he's the best choice.
	Instead, the left person insults the other side instead of convincing them.
	Well, I mean, again, I would be happy with Prime Minister Farage.
	I think it'd be a satisfying end to his story.
	I don't think he'll do damage.
	I think things will improve, even if it's only marginally, right?
	So I do want to see Prime Minister Farage better than any conservative or Labour guard.
	You know, it's got to be.
	It's got to be.
	And having him break the two-party stranglehold would be a really nice thing to do.
	But there's no reason that he has to essentially look like he's about to screw it up.
	Mog of War says, I don't understand how people don't understand the Tommy hate.
	It's the same as Trump derangement syndrome.
	He's a hate figure.
	Yeah, it's completely that.
	It's completely that.
	Mutley says, let's tiptoe around the elephant in the room.
	Ah, well, yes, let's do that.
	Mr. Personality says, raid the arch cast.
	Fish is butchering.
	The fish is butchering Greek and needs help with the pronunciation.
	I don't know what's happening.
	I'm doing this.
	So I haven't been paying attention.
	Dream says, Nigel Farage isn't the best of the country.
	If he's elected, it would be the fault of Labour and Conservatives due to them being awful, actually, speaking for the working class instead of themselves.
	Yes, it will.
	It's obviously true.
	Chief Slinging Beef says, Last year, I chatted.
	I meant you were the first person to ever super chat on YouTube in 2016.
	We both ended up pretty much in the same place.
	I'm a former libertarian, asked you about gun laws versus UK.
	Oh, well, nice to hear from you again, man.
	Thank you for the super chat.
	Much appreciated.
	Right.
	I think I'm just going to reload it.
	See where we are.
	I think it's telling me that's the last of it.
	So, thank you, everyone, for joining me.
	Again, I wanted to be more diplomatic, but my god, it's just been so frustrating dealing with this.
	Like, it's just non-stop.
	I mean, we're going to be talking about Monday, obviously.
	There's going to be more to talk about by then, obviously.
	And, like, we've got Ben Abe, who's going to Zoom call in and have a chat with us about this as well.
	It's very frustrating.
	It's just very, very frustrating to have to deal with all of this.
	And there's no reason for it, right?
	This is a completely unforced error.
	There's no reason this is necessary.
	And this doesn't help.
	I really don't think this helps.
	And essentially, what Farage is saying is that I don't need the right-wing activist class of people in the UK.
	It's like, okay, well, that's very confident.

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