Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - MAGA vs the Tech Bros

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Dec. 26, 2024 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

02:06:39

MAGA vs the Tech Bros

There has been a dialectical development. My painting/gaming channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDH9HgwG1xQ

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	Aha, finally, I'm live.
	Hello, chat.
	How has your Christmas been?
	My Christmas has been absolutely exhausting, and I'm thinking about essentially outsourcing it to Indian labor because I have so much to do that it's just so tiring.
	It's like having four kids, a wife, and of course, just loads of stuff that I'm busy doing.
	means that I just my Christmas is just non-stop doing stuff for other people.
	And then when I get some free time, I finally get something done.
	This was a project, the Noise Marine, was a project that I've had going on for about a month now.
	And I finally got him done.
	There's a video up on my little gaming channel that link in the description if you want to go watch it after this.
	Because honestly, it was a lot of work and I'm really proud of it.
	And I've been testing out a bunch of techniques that I hadn't previously tried.
	But anyway, let's get a chat.
	Let's get into the issues, because there have been there's been an interesting advance in the I mean, I hate to use the word dialectic in the.
	In the discourse on what we're calling the right, but it's not really just the right.
	It's a lot of people who are essentially exiled Democrats coming into the right-wing space and finding that people on the right have opinions that are not actually traditional Democrat opinions.
	And this means that they are bringing a series of unchallenged assumptions into the space and finding that they are becoming challenged on those assumptions and not knowing how to deal with that response, that new, I don't want to say vector of attack because that's not what's going on.
	They are asserting their democrat assumptions about the world.
	And this is an attack on the MAGA right.
	And the MAGA right has been responding to this.
	And the tech bros, who, again, were kind of putatively Democrat until very recently, are realizing, oh, there are people who have very different opinions on what it is to be a people and a person.
	And so I thought this was worth talking about.
	But yes, we are really doing this.
	And I want to be charitable to both sides, obviously, because I actually quite like both sides and I'm quite sympathetic to both sides.
	And yeah, my Christmas has been full of food.
	I don't know about you guys, but I've broken my diet.
	I've been on for about two weeks.
	I've been on a particular low-calorie diet.
	And of course, over Christmas, that didn't go well.
	And today, that didn't go well.
	But tomorrow, I'm back on it.
	Anyway, I want to be charitable to both sides because I'm actually very sympathetic to both sides.
	Because I was something of a tech bro in my younger years.
	And as I've grown older and gained more and more children, you definitely end up becoming more MAGA, as in more sort of traditional, conservative.
	And I think that the tech bros, one of the things they fail to understand about the MAGA types is that If we have a kind of blank slate classical liberal perspective in which everyone essentially just does as they want within the reasonable bounds of not interfering with other people, that is not sufficient for a civilization.
	That is not sufficient to make sure the civilization is healthy and prosperous and successful.
	There also has to be certain cultural guardrails in place.
	And this is what the argument that, well, I suppose James Lindsay and various others have been having about the woke right.
	Because it's obvious at this point that James Lindsay's war on the woke right is a war on dads.
	All of the people he's pointing at and screeching woke right on Twitter at are just dads, conservative dads, who are looking at the structures of the countries that they live in and saying, right, what do these need to be, how do these need to be changed in order to make sure that they end up creating a healthy world for my children to be raised in.
	Lindsay has no children, so this isn't a concern of his.
	His concern is for his liberty.
	But is his liberty really a threat?
	What's he stand to lose?
	And this is the issue with the woke right and categorizing it.
	I mean, I don't know if I'm woke right.
	I don't think I am, but maybe I am.
	I'm not adverse to the thing.
	But the point is, isn't that the point isn't labeling as much as who is correct in this?
	And this is really kind of what this is coming down to.
	The essence of MAGA is to have a traditional American society.
	And the tech bros, well, in a way, they're kind of anywhere globalists.
	And this is something that's become slightly an issue.
	So I thought we'd get into it.
	So on Christmas Day, you can see that people are tweeting.
	I was tweeting.
	Who doesn't tweet?
	Because I mean, like, I don't know about you guys, but I mostly use Twitter on the toilet.
	Or when I'm like watching a video or something and I'm bored.
	And I'll just tweet.
	So I don't tend to use Twitter when I'm actually doing something.
	But there are times during the day, even when you're spending the day with your family when you're on your own and you've got nothing to do other than scroll your phone.
	And so I guess everyone's on Twitter a little bit.
	But anyway, the question of are American jobs for American workers came up.
	As you see, Amjad here.
	Genuinely curious.
	Are there actual instances where qualified native-born Americans couldn't get jobs in tech because foreigners took them all?
	I'd be surprised if that's true because at any given point there are hundreds of thousands of unfilled jobs in tech.
	Now, there is obviously going to be a large turnover.
	But I also understand that a lot of tech companies have been downsizing recently.
	So who knows?
	But Elon says there is a permanent shortage of excellent engineering talent.
	It is the fundamental limiting factor in Silicon Valley.
	Now, this is probably true.
	And I'm sure if anyone knows, Elon Musk knows that he's going to always be looking for the highest level of talent wherever he can get it.
	And I don't doubt that he is thinking in small terms because the kind of level of talent that he's looking for is going to be a very, very narrow constituency of just human beings on the earth.
	And so that's probably true and is an issue.
	But that's not how the immigration policy of not only in the United States, but other places.
	So I don't know why my nose is itching.
	At the moment.
	Sorry.
	But that's, I don't have a cold.
	I don't know what's going on.
	But that's not going to be the that's not the way that the immigration systems that we have are operating.
	The immigration systems that we have are operating to facilitate mass immigration.
	And in Britain and America, I mean, in Britain last year, we had about 250,000 people from India alone.
	And America has something like 350,000 people from India alone.
	Now, America is much bigger than we are.
	And so this is a much more impactful issue for us.
	But it's obviously still an impactful issue for the Americans, which is why so many Americans are becoming very aware of this.
	Now, Ashley St. Clair here said, look, a majority of people from the skilled immigrant set vote overwhelmingly Democrat and against fundamental American values, which is a fair point.
	And Elon replies to this, saying, that is changing due to the increasingly anti-meritocratic nature of the Democratic Party.
	Right.
	So it's not that these people are coming into the United States and saying, you know what, I actually really like the United States.
	Maybe I'm going to change my position from being an open borders globalist.
	I'm going to become something of a parochial nativist.
	And it's completely possible for immigrants to be parochial nativists as well, by the way.
	I know lots of them, actually.
	But it begins with a love of the place that you've gone to.
	I always use the example of Greece.
	I personally just really like Greece.
	And if I ever moved to Greece, I would become a parochial nativist for the Greeks.
	I'd be yelling Turks out and stuff like this.
	Germans out too.
	There's nothing contradictory about that.
	It just shows that you have a love of the place and you want it to be preserved as it is.
	And so overwhelming a place with immigrants who have an instrumental view of what your country is for is actually not great.
	And so if the only reason they're voting Republican is because the Democrats are not meritocratic, well, that's not exactly what people usually view their country's purpose as being.
	And in fact, Wall Street Mav here replies saying the H-1B visa program is a disaster.
	It simply favors companies that can process legal paperwork.
	It has nothing to do with merit or talent.
	And that's going to be a similar situation to that which we have in the United Kingdom, where it's more about the government working hand in hand with big corporations in order to get masses of people into your country.
	Canada is a shocking example of this.
	I think the last I heard, a third of the population of Canada were immigrants, first-generation immigrants.
	And it's like, that is, that is wild, isn't it?
	That is genuinely insane.
	It's bad here.
	It's something like a sixth or something like that.
	But in Canada, a third.
	Crazy.
	Absolutely crazy.
	And again, these people aren't coming out of a love of the place.
	They're coming for instrumental reasons.
	And that's an issue.
	Because actually, I think our countries aren't just tools to advance the agendas of foreign immigrants, right?
	That's actually not what we're here for.
	We have our own privileges, destinies, teleologies, rights, should we say, to our own countries.
	And actually, if we center the immigrant experience of our countries as being the focus of our interpretation of our own countries, well, then we lose something in the process.
	Something is actually taken away from us.
	And it's very hard to get that thing back once it's been destroyed.
	So anyway, Mario points out, quoting Elon, that look, Silicon Valley's biggest limitation is its engineering talent shortage.
	The US semiconductor industry alone needs over 160,000 engineers by 2032 because of a $250 billion investments from various people.
	It's like, okay, well, then they should get training people, shouldn't they?
	They should get, I mean, that's a normal person would say, okay, great.
	Well, you're going to have to set up a bunch of courses to train Americans in order to do this.
	So 160,000 engineers.
	By 2032, I mean, you've got seven years.
	That doesn't sound too long, right?
	Surely you can train an engineer in seven years.
	So you just need to create a big educational system in order to do it.
	And if anyone can do it, I'm sure Elon could.
	So the demand for AI experts is skyrocketed.
	Elon's called for a talent war, calling the talent war the craziest ever.
	And I agree that there probably is a talent war, although I'm not that certain that there is.
	Like, it's a strange thing that we're going to come on to in a bit.
	But how many Indian immigrants does China take every year?
	And the answer, I think, is quite low, isn't it?
	So that's just a strange and interesting thing.
	And so anyway, Elon replies to this saying no.
	We needed more like double that number yesterday.
	So, okay.
	The number of people who are super talented engineers and super motivated in the USA is far too low.
	Think of it like a pro sports team.
	If you want your team to win the championship, you need to recruit top talent wherever they may be.
	That enables the whole team to win.
	Now, he's got a point here that having the ability to farm the most talented people from other countries is very useful.
	But notice his criteria here.
	The number of super talented engineers and super motivated, right, in the United States.
	So there may well be a bunch of talented engineers who are not super motivated.
	Well, why may they not be super motivated?
	Now, the answer that a lot of people may come to is, well, if you have lots of very talented white guys who like to program, who like to build things, who like doing autistic things with their hands, and they aren't systematically discriminated against because they are white guys, well, that might demotivate them.
	And it's not like we don't see plenty of this around.
	There are lots of like before and after pictures of companies, tech companies, gaming companies, whatever kind of companies, Silicon Valley companies, you know, social media companies, where you can see they've deliberately diversified their workforce.
	Now, that doesn't mean they have expanded their workforce, but that does mean the workforce has changed.
	Someone has been replaced.
	You see the autistic white male nerds, and then you see lots of diversity and women.
	And it's like, right, okay, well, the team size is roughly the same.
	How has this happened?
	And this has happened through an explicit program of affirmative action hiring.
	They are deliberately targeting some people because of their race and gender.
	And that means, of course, the other side of the cutting edge of that is discriminating against some people because of the race and gender.
	There's been an explicit program that the left has been using for years.
	It's just completely common.
	And it's only just now where they're starting to look at the general slowdown of productivity and innovation in their systems and saying, hmm, maybe all of this DEI hiring wasn't great.
	I mean, people are saying that Boeing is a good example of this.
	I'm not sure that's true, but I am worried when I get on a Boeing plane.
	Anyway, I am Yes, You Are No says.
	There are 330 million people in America.
	Surely there must be enough among them to build your ultimate team.
	Why would you not deny real Americans that opportunity by bringing foreigners here?
	And so, Elon responds to this, saying, Your understanding of the situation is upside down and backwards.
	Of course, my companies and I would prefer to hire Americans, and we do, as that is much easier than going through the incredibly painful and slow work visa process.
	However, there is a dire shortage of extremely talented and motivated engineers in America.
	This is not about handing out opportunities from some magical hat.
	You don't get it.
	This is blindingly obvious when looking at NBA teams, as the physical differences are so obvious to see.
	However, the mental differences between humans are far bigger than the physical differences, which is interesting, actually.
	But again, note the conjunction: extremely talented and motivated.
	It's like, okay, well, that's interesting because I do think there may be an issue with motivation here.
	But also, I mean, like, for example, if the top universities in the country actively discriminate against Asians and white people because they are otherwise disproportionately represented in these universities, you've got to wonder if that isn't affecting the motivation of otherwise talented people going into these fields, right?
	Requiring high-end educations so they can end up being in the pool of talent that Elon Musk is looking for.
	I would imagine it'd be very demotivating and it would be very frustrating.
	Elon continues and says, It comes down to this: Do you want America to win or do you want America to lose?
	If you force the world's best talent to play for the other side, America will lose.
	End of story.
	Now, this is where I find myself parting ways with Elon and his perspective because I don't think this is a zero-sum game.
	I don't think that China, which I assume is the main antagonist, I mean, Russia is not a tech antagonist when it comes to America.
	The Russians don't really produce high-tech electronics, they produce raw materials and then import the high-tech stuff.
	I assume he's talking about China looking to up their tech game.
	But are the Chinese snapping up these people, or are these people staying in India and wherever to make India great again?
	And that seems to be the question.
	Because I don't think if we don't import everyone Elon Musk wants from other countries, then they are necessarily playing for the other side.
	It could be that they are just on the sidelines and not actually in the game.
	And this also brings up more questions of what does it even mean for America to win and lose in this circumstance, right?
	So, do you want America to win?
	Okay, well, a lot of people don't feel represented by the England football team.
	If we're going to use teams, sports teams as a metaphor here, because I think most of them aren't actually English, a lot of them are from like Africa and wherever else.
	It's like, okay, so if the England team wins and the team is not representative of England, in what way has England actually won other than in a nominal entitled way?
	As in they have they bear the name of England, they wear the kit, but they're not English, they're just for some reason acting essentially like mercenaries to England.
	Is that a victory for England?
	Or and is that authentic?
	Is that something substantive?
	Is it something that the English can feel represented by?
	And in this case, you know, okay, if a team of like Asian and Indian and African scientists end up using American money and resources to put a man on Mars, do the American people feel yes, that's us?
	Or are they like, okay, well, the mercenaries won that under our name.
	But do the Americans feel emotionally attached to that?
	In the same way as when Neil Armstrong is on the moon, and I'm not a moon landing denier, FYI.
	That the Americans, you can tell they felt very emotionally attached to that because of the bonds of sentiment of their kinsmen.
	Is it the same thing?
	And I'm not sure that it is the same thing.
	I actually think there are questions there.
	Wall Street Mav comes back with, are the talented engineers working at Boeing that you can repurpose on more important projects of SpaceX?
	I've always thought that our engineering talent is being wasted at ULA and Boeing, or have you taken their best people?
	And Elon replies with, from get the mouse, the outcome of any given company is the vector sum of the people within it.
	Improve the alignment of the individual vectors and their amplitude and the outcome will improve accordingly.
	Humans can be thought of as hardware, inherent talent, and software, education, and training.
	Even if someone has a strong brain slash hardware, if their training software is bad, then that can be very hard to reverse.
	As the saying goes, it's hard to teach an old job new tricks.
	That said, talking in terms of specific companies, Boeing is on a much better track with the new CEO.
	The prior guy had no idea how airplanes or rockets worked.
	Just zero.
	Regarding space, Artemis architecture is extremely inefficient.
	It is a jobs maximizing program, not a results maximizing program.
	Something entirely new is needed.
	Right.
	Okay, well, fair.
	And I'm not going to in any way judge his ability to run a company because obviously the man is clearly brilliant at that.
	Elon Musk has got many haters, but I'm an admirer of his.
	And I very much appreciate everything that he is doing.
	I'm a huge supporter of the idea of the Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency.
	I can't wait for Elon to just start slicing off huge segments of the federal government.
	And I'm going to be pointing and saying, that's what they can do.
	We could do something here just like that.
	As if Malays, Argentina wasn't a good enough example already.
	But I'm kind of worried about viewing human beings in, again, this kind of purely instrumental position.
	Because, and I have to say, as a kind of, you know, ex-tech bro type myself, I understand that it's easy to fall into.
	It's easy to see humans as being tools to complete a job.
	And the job therefore becomes more important than the tools that are being used to make it.
	The tool becomes interchangeable.
	If a better tool comes along, then of course I'm taking the better tool to get the job done more effectively, more efficiently, and quicker.
	But I think that what we're doing here is actually dehumanizing people.
	This is not something that people signed up for.
	People didn't sign up to become merely cogs in a machine.
	And if they did, well, was that on the resume?
	Was that on the job application form?
	There is an issue when the country is essentially repurposed to a higher goal, rather than the internal goal of being a good place for the citizens of that country to live.
	Elon is, and I don't think he's doing this maliciously, obviously.
	I think it's a case of he operates in a very high-powered and high-pressure work environment every day.
	And so he has to think in these terms in order to be at the very top of his game.
	And Elon is at the very top of his game.
	And in many ways, this is incredibly admirable.
	But when it translates to, say, immigration policy, well, nobody asked for that.
	And actually using America or any other country as an instrument to serve an external goal rather than to make the policy serve the United States itself as a good place to live and not a launching pad to get humans to Mars.
	Because of course, Elon has made it very clear that he wants humans to be an interplanetary species.
	And I'm not in any way against that, by the way.
	I'm totally in favor of it.
	But there's a sense of urgency that Elon has that underpins this that I personally don't have.
	I don't think we're going to wipe ourselves out in the next hundred years or something.
	So I don't think we're in that much of a hurry to get to Mars.
	But when you approach the civilization itself with the expectation that it will fulfill some external goal, well, then you instrumentalize all of the people in it and you are willing to sacrifice some things in order to arrive at the goal that maybe ought not to be sacrificed.
	Anyway, so he carries on.
	And people responded to this.
	The no, we need double the number yesterday.
	With this guy at suspended1233 said, well, my son graduated with honors with electrical and computer engineering degrees in 2023.
	He cannot get an interview, let alone a job.
	Any white male he knew in college can't get jobs either.
	Many are currently working in data center jobs that don't require their education.
	And this ratioed Elon that lots of people pointed out.
	And then Foxford Comics points out, well, that account's gone.
	Yeah, it seems to be.
	That account just seems to have disappeared.
	Not even suspended.
	It just doesn't exist, which is weird.
	I don't know what's happened here.
	And lots of people were replying to this account.
	And now it's just gone.
	I don't know why, but I think this anecdote is speaking to a larger issue.
	I can't give you an example expressly from the United States, but in the United Kingdom, there have been lots of examples of how the structures and systems themselves are actively discriminating against straight white males.
	There was the example of, I think it was in Cheltenham, where there was a police officer who, well, a man who was trying to become a police officer, and he had the most perfect resume, the most perfect resume to become a police officer.
	And he was refused because he was a straight white male and successfully sued them and got hundreds of thousands of pounds because they refused to hire him because he was a straight white male.
	And then, of course, we had the Air Force leaks where the top brass of the Air Force were complaining that they wanted minority pilots as applicants.
	And all they were getting was, quote, these useless straight white males.
	Of course, they weren't useless as pilots.
	They would have been incredible as pilots, no doubt, you know, the best that we have.
	But they didn't fill diversity quotas.
	And that's just two examples from the UK.
	I imagine there have been plenty of these.
	If you go to a place that is much more openly woke, like Silicon Valley, I imagine it's way more prolific and way more difficult as a straight white male to get a job there because, of course, you are going to be discriminated against because of race and gender.
	And lots of people were pointing that out.
	I mean, our on here.
	It's not that America doesn't have the talent and we have to ship it in from overseas.
	It's that we specifically created a system to suppress that talent for the political gain of the left.
	That is a true statement.
	This is something that has happened.
	So anyway, suspended's account disappeared for some reason.
	But other people have been quoting this.
	And Zach here says, this is a skill issue.
	If you are hardworking, smart, motivated, and motivated, getting a job is easy.
	Even as a white male with a computer science degree, I'm a white male with a computer science degree.
	Just build stuff and show people.
	And Elon endorses this by just putting 100.
	Well, that might not be entirely true.
	And it may well be that your particular situation is not necessarily representative of lots of other people's situations.
	And, you know, when they start telling you, look, these things, this isn't working for us, maybe there's something to listen to there.
	Maybe it's worth paying attention to.
	I mean, you have this guy here who's like, look, I've got various experience.
	He says he's required, doesn't require a salary, lots of experience as a developer.
	Didn't even get a response when he offered to work at X.
	And Elon just says, well, we're just done.
	It's like, okay, okay.
	But come on.
	Like, we're not going to pretend that the systems are just neutral after they've been run by the left for like 15 years, are we?
	Like, we know they're not neutral.
	We know they're not staffed by neutral people.
	We know there is a will and intentionality in these systems.
	So let's not pretend, right?
	Let's not pretend that, oh, we just woke up today and, oh, everything seems fine.
	And therefore, just work hard and, you know, put your back into it.
	And everything would be great.
	It's like, but that's not how it is.
	And then things started getting a bit weird, right?
	So this all, I think, is this sort of surface-level discussion.
	And it's perfectly fine.
	This is a perfectly fine discussion, right?
	And I think this is an important issue to be raised.
	And this is what some will stigmatize as woke right, which is recognizing systemic injustices, which I think is what woke is really about.
	And, well, there are actual systemic injustices against straight white men because the left has controlled the institution for such a long time.
	They've been deliberately trying to suppress straight white men.
	And it's not like they are in any way shy about telling us this.
	They literally would come out and say, you're a fucking white male.
	Of course you shouldn't get the advantages because of the systematically discriminated against all you know minorities and women.
	And therefore they should get preferential treatment.
	And this has just been rolling on for years now.
	This has been going on for years.
	So it's totally honest that this is the case.
	It's obviously true that this is the case.
	I don't think we need to deny it.
	And so Vivek Ramaswamy posted this.
	And this was just a very strange take on the issue.
	Very, very strange, strange issue.
	Strange take on the issue.
	Vivek says, and again, I just want to be clear.
	I like all of the people that I'm talking about.
	In fact, everyone here, I think I've liked so far.
	He says, the reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born and first-generation engineers of native, quote-unquote, Americans isn't because of a nate American IQ deficit.
	Well, no one said that.
	A key part of it comes down to the C word, culture.
	Tough questions demand tough answers.
	And if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the truth.
	Our American culture has venerated mediocrity of excellence for way too long, at least since the 90s and likely longer.
	And that doesn't start in college.
	It starts young.
	That's interesting because I don't agree with that.
	I've had a lot of experience with Americans and American culture and they don't venerate mediocrity at all.
	In Britain, if you want to see what venerating mediocrity looks like, you come to my country.
	We venerate mediocrity.
	It's so deeply embedded in our language that we have all sorts of catchphrases for someone who thinks they're being clever because we think being clever is a problem.
	Americans celebrate accomplishment.
	They celebrate success.
	They celebrate making money.
	They celebrate achievements.
	And America is a very high achieving culture because of it.
	So for Vivek to come out and say this is very peculiar.
	I don't agree that that's the case.
	And I don't know why he'd be saying this.
	But he carries on and says, a culture that celebrates the prom queen of the math Olympiad champ or the jock of the valedictorian will not produce the best engineers.
	So right.
	You weren't the jock, were you?
	A culture that venerates Corey from Boy Meets World, or Zack and Slater over Screeched in Saved by the Bell, or Stefan over Steve Urkel in Family Matters, will not produce the best engineers.
	It's like, right.
	What culture venerates the nerd?
	I mean, I literally can't think of one.
	Like, none of the heroes in any culture story are the nerds, right?
	They're always their culture's version of the jock, right?
	The square-jawed hero who can actually defeat the enemy and overcome the problem and get the girl.
	That's probably not Vivek, right?
	Vivek's a very smart guy, but you can see that he empathizes far more with the screeches of the world than the Zach and Slaters.
	And that's an issue.
	Machiavelli had a particular way of conceiving of this.
	He broke society down into the lions, the foxes, and he didn't say the wolves, but I think this is where he's going with it.
	The foxes and the lions are different, right?
	They have different ways of approaching problems.
	The lions use force, and the foxes use cunning, and the wolves use pack tactics.
	And so the foxes and the wolves can team, the foxes and the lions can team up to defeat the wolves and not have, in theory, any problems.
	But this is Vivek saying the lions are the problem from the fox perspective.
	And that's interesting because the fox doesn't really have the mandate to rule.
	He actually doesn't have the kind of correct archetype to be in the highest position of authority and decision making.
	And if you look at, okay, well, let's have a think about the team that is about to take over America.
	Well, is Trump a lion or a fox?
	And the answer is, of course, he's a lion.
	Trump is prepared to take the executive actions and he's prepared to just stand there in the face of the enemy and not flinch.
	And we know this because he got shot.
	And we know what his response was after he was shot.
	Trump is 100% the lion archetype.
	But Vivek is showing us here that he is the fox archetype.
	And the fox archetype, frankly, doesn't have the steel in them like the lion does.
	They are clever.
	They avoid or diffuse problems rather than overcoming them physically.
	And that's why the lions are the ones that are in charge.
	And the foxes are usually their assistants.
	And so this starts taking on the aspect of a kind of subconscious cultural revolution where the foxes are trying to overthrow the lions.
	And that's not on, I think.
	And this starts to seem resentful, right?
	Because it's not like Vivek is some giant Chad jock who is like, you know what, I'm just starting to really empathize with the Steve Urkels of the world.
	Vivek was probably in that place.
	You know, maybe he was bullied at school or something.
	I don't know.
	But interestingly, again, this is the culture that he is, that he is attacking the sort of cultural substratum that produced all of the things that he would say is great about America.
	This is an old archetype in the United States.
	Goes back decades and decades and decades in their pop culture of the jocks bullying the nerds and the nerds having to figure out how to get around it.
	This is old.
	This isn't new.
	And this is the culture that put men on the moon.
	This is the culture that won the Cold War.
	This is not something that is a deficiency in American culture.
	This is actually the source of strength in American culture, the way to cultivate the lion aspect of it.
	And actually, I think it should be nurtured and thought well of.
	It's not that the foxes have anything wrong with them.
	Again, I'm a lot more inclined to sympathize with the foxes.
	But I think the foxes kind of need to know their place in the hierarchy.
	And it's second in command.
	It's not being in command.
	And what Vivek is asking for here is the lions to cede command to the foxes.
	And I don't think that's wise.
	And we'll see why that is in a minute, because it seems, and a lot of people are interpreting Vivek's post in this way, that there is a current of resentment underpinning this.
	And I think that's weird.
	And I don't think that's something that we should allow into the mainstream.
	Anyway, he says, he goes on and keeps making this cultural critique.
	He says, most normal American parents look skeptically at those kind of parents, as in parents who weren't allowed to didn't let their kids watch this.
	If you grew up aspiring to normalcy, normalcy is what you would achieve.
	Well, who aspires to normalcy?
	Like, most people are given normalcy, whether they understand it or not, because they're mostly normal.
	Now, close your eyes and visualize which families you know in the 90s or even now who raise their kids according to one model versus the other, be brutally honest.
	Well, this is a kind of aggressiveness that isn't normally present in people who belong in a culture because they don't feel like they have something to prove.
	And so the cream rises to the top on its own rather than being hyper-competitive.
	But as he says, normalcy doesn't cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent.
	And if we pretend like it does, we'll have our asses handed to us by China.
	But is China really in any danger of actually superseding the United States when it comes to technical innovation and capacity?
	I'm not sure that it is.
	America seems leagues ahead.
	I'm no tech expert, but America just seems leagues ahead.
	Whenever, like, it doesn't seem to be China innovating anything.
	It seems to be China copying America's innovations.
	So I personally don't view China as a very threatening entity in this way.
	And again, if that's the case, why isn't the talent moving to China?
	Like, I don't ever see someone who's like, right, okay, well, I moved to America.
	I became like, you know, parag, agrawal, but the Chinese are hiring me.
	So I'm going to go to China.
	When has that ever happened?
	When has China ever head-hunted American talent in that way?
	Like, I'm not saying it's never happened.
	I'm just saying I'm just not aware of it.
	So, I mean, maybe it is.
	Maybe I just don't know.
	Right.
	Feel free to correct me in the comments.
	He says this can be our Sputnik moment after we've awakened from a slumber.
	We can do it again.
	Trump's election hopefully marks the beginning of a golden new era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up.
	A culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy.
	Again, America is a very again, I'm just not seeing this.
	Americans love achievement.
	They love it.
	That's why Elon's so popular.
	So one of the reasons Elon's so popular.
	But anyway, a lot of people took this very, very poorly.
	I mean, Dave pointed this out.
	Well, he didn't sound like this when he was appealing to voters.
	How's that gone?
	He's always been a con man because there are people who think that Vivek is a bit of a used car salesman.
	And again, Vivek is arguing from his own perspective, right?
	His perspective as a nerdy but chatty first generation or maybe second generation immigrant to the United States.
	Someone who is an outsider to the mainstream culture who has to ingratiate themselves into it.
	And he had a very good patter when he was on the campaign trail with MAGA.
	And I like Vivek.
	But a lot of people are saying, well, look, this is kind of a mask off moment here, which, yeah, it kind of is.
	He's attacking the very nature of the traditional American society with his critique here.
	And it's like, okay, well, that's not something I expected because normally Vivek has been a defender of American society up until this point.
	Up until it didn't serve his interests, right?
	Up until it didn't look like he could get something else out and above it.
	And so that's interesting.
	And I don't want to be too cynical about this.
	And I'm sure that he's got a lot of backlash for this.
	And I'm sure that you can go away and think about this and say, okay, maybe I was wrong.
	But as Nick's pointed out, well, look, Trump hasn't even taken office and the tech bros have revealed their rabid hatred for Americans.
	It's like, okay, well, I think that's a bit strong.
	You know, I like Nicola, but I think that is a bit strong.
	But there is a condescension and derisiveness and dismissiveness to it that I think is worth talking about because the normal Americans are the ones who make all this happen, man.
	Like they're the ones upon whose back everything is carried.
	And this was the main complaint about the Democrats up until this point is that they are just literally shitting on the people who are holding everything they have up.
	And why are you doing this?
	Like these are good people.
	They are decent folks and there's no need for it.
	They haven't provoked this.
	These people didn't live up to the external goal that Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy and all the other tech bros have laid on America.
	They're just living their lives being good, virtuous, law-abiding, decent, hard-working, community-focused Americans.
	And Vivek Ramaswamy has come along and said, listen, you're shit.
	Get better.
	Girl, we're going to smash China.
	It's like, okay, just calm down.
	I'm not sure China is the great fate that you're pointing out.
	You're making it out to be.
	And I didn't ask for that.
	You were conscripting me into a war that I never declared and I didn't necessarily support.
	And I don't think this is Trump's opinion either.
	Because Trump has spoken against the H-1B visas in the past.
	In 2016, when he was debating against, I think it was the other Republicans.
	He was like, look, I'm a businessman.
	I know I benefit from these, but they're destroying the fabric of our country.
	And so these have to stop.
	The lion has the responsibility to its own pride.
	And the fox doesn't get it.
	The fox is clever and has goals of his own.
	Aaron had a great post here, right?
	I'm just going to read it because it really, really to the point, right?
	He says, Vivek claims that America venerates football players and prong queens of the math nerd.
	This is laughable.
	For decades, American entertainment and culture has denigrated the socially and physically successful, casting them out as bullies and looters, losers who wash out right after high school when the nerd triumphs.
	Now, this is a trope that has gone back for years, right?
	Think of back to the future.
	Think about the what happened to Biff?
	Now, Biff is the worst character in the world, evil, evil man.
	But Biff ends up as literally Marty's servant.
	And this is from the 80s.
	This is a movie from the fucking 80s.
	All through the 90s, all through the 2000s.
	Think of the Big Bang theory and stuff like this, right?
	These, these people, the nerd culture has been on the ascendancy.
	And so it's a very peculiar thing to say that America doesn't not worship, but validate high achievement, especially in academic sense.
	That's not true.
	That's just not true.
	He says, Johnson cheerleaders are the villains.
	It's been revenge on the nerds my entire life.
	And I say this as a nerd.
	Yeah.
	And I just want to, I just want to be clear.
	I say this as a nerd too, right?
	I do incredibly, again, go watch my video of me painting stuff or playing video games or doing whatever.
	You know, I used to pray on video games.
	Like, I'm a nerd, right?
	I am completely a nerd, but I am also a dad.
	And Aaron is also a dad.
	And when you were a dad, you realize you have to nurture the lion's side of you.
	The lion's job is to set the order, enforce the rules, and protect the pride.
	You have no choice as a dad to at least partially become the lion, even if naturally you're inclined to be the fox.
	As he says, I say this as a nerd, and this rings perfectly true to me too.
	And I say this as a nerd who's been forced into the lion role.
	Right.
	No, the nerds are wrong on this, and it's easy not to think about it if the only person you have to be responsible for is yourself.
	Because if you are like an, you know 130 Iq Anglo, as many of the people in the tech bro sphere are, whether you know physically or spiritually Anglo.
	And Vivek seems to be, you know, completely Americanized.
	You know, totally American.
	Obviously i'm not saying he didn't grow up in American culture, imbibe all of American culture's worldview and then carries it on.
	But he, they've got this particular world where it's like, look, we have a goal that we as adult men on our own are going to carry forth and that's just not on.
	Even though i'm not saying Vivek doesn't have kids or anything like that, but there's the mindset that he has and it needs to change to become a slightly more paternalistic, patriarchal mindset, dare I say.
	Anyway, he says we need less sleepovers and more math tutoring, i.e social development and health should take a backseat to academics.
	It would be great if American kids received any kind of real education, but the quality of the issue is quality, not just ours, put in.
	Ouron used to be a teacher, so i'm sure that he knows what he's talking about here and, if you doubt, go back find, find a sort of you know, 11 year old examination for 11 year olds from like 1890 or something right, the questions are so much more advanced than the questions that you would have to have done when you were at school.
	Right, there has been a decline in the quality of our education for reasons of inclusivity.
	Right in South Korea, the education employment condition is insane.
	Kids put every waking moment in studying and they're miserable.
	South Korea is so bad it has a lower birth rate than North Korea.
	This is an issue that uh Elon is constantly hammering on.
	It is dying.
	It might have a great tech sector for another decade, but if this continues it will cease to exist.
	So maybe, just maybe, the Us shouldn't emulate a nation based on social suicide.
	Great point.
	There are more things in life and the thing is as well like if you, if you emphasize certain things and become hell-bent on this one thing, you let other things wither and you fail to understand that everything is a mesh.
	It's a deeply incorporated mesh, and so you might have a bunch of very sallow faced, depressed.
	You know, anti-depressant popping, hyper nerds, are they?
	You don't know that this is actually going to produce the results you're looking for and even if it does, you're burning up a bunch of capital in other realms that has to be paid for, right you're?
	You're accruing a debt in other realms that has to come due at some point, and actually having a broader, more healthy culture and allowing those people who are brilliant at whatever they do to come forward and do what they do like we did in previous eras, by the way actually seems to have served us very well and put us civilizationally in the leading position in the world.
	We haven't had to worry about China.
	I don't think we need to alter the way that we've always done things, frankly.
	So then people started going.
	Well, this is a thing with the Indians, isn't it right?
	Because there are lots of Indians who see America in instrumental terms.
	Now, i'm not saying that's Vivek in particular, but There are definitely lots of Indian immigrants because again, Vivek was born and raised in the United States, so maybe not him.
	But there are definitely lots of immigrants and not just Indian immigrants, but Indian immigrants have become the focus of the discourse who view the United States in an instrumental manner.
	As in, they themselves can advance, get a job, get money, and also allow family members and friends, give them advice on how to come over and make money and advance their status in the world.
	Now, I'm not in any way, I don't blame these people for doing that.
	If you come from a poor society, a mostly poor society like India, and there is just this open door where they're saying, Yeah, no, we'll take hundreds of thousands of you every year.
	We will not only take you in, but we'll give you preferential treatment through DEI initiatives.
	Um, there's every reason for you to do that, right?
	The incentives are all lined up.
	Yeah, of course, you can do that.
	I'm not saying I wouldn't do that if I were an Indian, and it's the same in Britain.
	We're taking 250,000 a year.
	Why not?
	Why wouldn't you come?
	You know, oh, yeah, we've got all these anti-racist laws, we've got all these preferential hiring uh practices.
	Why would you not come?
	But there's every reason to come, and so it's not that you know, they're not bad people, they shouldn't be shunned or anything like that.
	And most of the Indians I know are lovely people.
	In fact, I don't know any Indians that aren't lovely people, but there is something to be said.
	Sorry, I'm just looking for a tweet that I forgot to pull up because I think this is one of those sort of important things.
	Here we go.
	There is something to be said when the CEOs of all of these American companies end up being immigrants, right?
	This wasn't done like out of malice, and I'm not in any way trying to cast aspersions on any of these CEOs.
	The CEO of Google is Indian, the CEO of Microsoft is Indian, the CEO of Adobe is Indian, the CEO of IBM is Indian, the CEO of Chanel is Indian, the CEO of FedEx is Indian, the CEO of Palo at Palo Alto is Indian, the CEO of Plex is Indian.
	Indians are high-skilled immigrants.
	Well, it's okay.
	Well, that's half a dozen.
	There are 250,000 a year, and I see lots of Indians who aren't CEOs going around, and they're not high-skilled, so why are they here if we're looking just high-skilled immigrants?
	But it takes on a different tone because it's like, right, okay, so is that how things are meant to be then?
	Are we just having all of the national companies, international companies, but companies that were founded in America or in Britain or wherever being run by Indians for whatever reason?
	Is there anything that we have to question there?
	Or do we just say, nope, this was just a neutral meritocracy and they arrived there purely by neutral meritocratic means?
	Because Indian culture is just more nepotistic than Western Anglo culture.
	We don't think it's a virtue to just hire cousins or brothers or sisters or friends, family members, right?
	We don't do that generally, unless it's for like a family-run business.
	We tend not to do that.
	But there are just so many stories, so many examples of people saying, Well, look, you know, I worked in tech and suddenly there was an Indian guy got hired and he was put in charge of hiring, and suddenly everyone's an Indian, right?
	There's no doubt that there's a much more nepotistic culture and a much less individualistic culture than the Anglo-West.
	And so there seems to be a kind of vulnerability in the Anglo-West to more patronage-based cultures than ours, right?
	So, I'm not saying any of these people are bad.
	I'm not saying they're incompetent, but they definitely have a different perspective on the world than we do, and we're allowing them to just be in charge of everything.
	It's like, okay, well, then things will change, won't they?
	You know, things will become noticeably more Indian-run than Western-run, because, as he says, as the Dr. Patel here says, these people are Indians.
	And like I said, I'm not saying that's good or bad.
	I'm saying there will be differences because things are different.
	And there is a kind of consciousness of this.
	Like, you remember when Rishi Sunak became the prime minister, unelected, obviously.
	He wasn't even elected within the Conservative Party.
	The Conservative Party chose Liz Truss, an English woman, and she was removed by the Bank of England.
	And Rishi Patel, who was previously a Goldman Sachs banker, was just parachuted in as the prime minister.
	India erupted in cheers.
	The Times of India, the first Indian prime minister.
	And it's like, okay, but Rishi Sunak was born and raised in Southampton.
	Oh, right.
	He's an Indian, right?
	Okay, because of his ethnicity.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So this was something that the Indians viewed as a very positive development.
	You know, we've colonized the mother country, you know, the central seat of empire.
	And it's like, okay, well, there's definitely something going on here.
	And there is definitely a kind of group consciousness among Indians.
	And is it worth discussing?
	Are we allowed to talk about this?
	Do you think they might have an effect?
	And again, I don't think Indians are bad people.
	All the Indians I know are really nice.
	And I know lots of Indians.
	So I'm not trying to, I don't want anyone coming away from this thinking that I personally don't like Indians.
	I actually do like Indians.
	I actually know lots of Indian parents.
	And they all seem pretty decent.
	I've never had a crossword with a single one.
	But there is something to be said there, right?
	And so anyway, then you start getting the more negative takes about the natives.
	So as a way of kind of post hoc justifying why all of these CEOs of these companies should be, and these are massive companies as well, it should be Indian.
	Then we start getting, well, you know, you're American because of the circumstance of your birth.
	Immigrants are American because of their intentional effort.
	Guess which one is more likely to love America?
	It's like, well, okay, but why is it that Rishi Sunak seemed more attached to India?
	Like, why is it that, what's her face?
	The Somali congresswoman, Ilhan Omar, called the president of Somalia our president.
	Like, there seems to always be that kind of anchor back in the mother country.
	And so Americans, their anchor is located in America.
	Whereas immigrants, especially ones who have come for instrumental reasons, not because they genuinely have a love of America, but because they see America as being something that can advance them career-wise and advance the prosperity of their family back home.
	Well, do they love America or are they just on the make?
	And again, I'm not, I'd do the same.
	I'd be on the make too.
	I think it's just worth thinking about.
	I don't think it's literally as cut and dried as, well, they tried to come to America, therefore they must love America.
	Because that would mean that the boat migrants who are crossing the English Channel right now, well, they put in the most effort to get into England.
	So are they the biggest English patriots?
	Are they the biggest lovers of England?
	Or are they here to literally extort us for money?
	Right.
	And the answer is, of course, they're extorting us for money.
	And Mario here points out, well, I mean, you know, immigrants are doing great.
	You know, non-white ethnic groups in America are actually doing brilliant, which at least puts lie to the question of America being a racist society.
	But it also starts to make someone question, well, is this just meritocracy at work?
	Or is it that these people are being the beneficiaries of affirmative action or nepotistic hiring practices or things like that?
	And, well, there's probably a bit of both at least, right?
	If we're going to be generous to both sides.
	And I do want to be generous to both sides.
	So Jack Sobic, I think, correctly points out, there's probably no shortage of American talent.
	Like, I personally know loads of talented Americans.
	You know, and I know Americans from all walks of life in America as well.
	And it's just genuinely shocking how many talented Americans there are.
	And so I think he's probably right that the system is designed to suppress American talent in the same way that the British system is designed to suppress British talent, which is why we see such an overrepresentation of immigrants in our public life.
	And our on, of course, again, the conservative dads, right?
	Notice it's the conservative dads who are like, look, I'm not buying the argument that India or any other foreign nation is an army of gifted engineers who can improve their home nation and help them win the global economy, but refuse to until they cross the US border and then magically activate.
	And the question, of course, raised there is, why wouldn't they be making their home countries great?
	If this was the case, why are their countries just not naturally out-competing our countries?
	And no one ever has an answer because it doesn't make sense that this would be the case of it, right?
	Does not make sense at all.
	But anyway, so Elon had also yesterday said, look, we need to fix the legal immigration process.
	Now, again, a lot of people took this badly because they assumed what this means is more people, right?
	Is it just more people that America needs?
	I'm not sure that it is.
	But anyway, especially when you get this kind of attitude, right?
	So this cash person claims to be an engineer at Twitter at X.
	And you get things like this.
	America wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Indian excellence.
	No one believes that.
	Like, the population of Indians in America has been effectively nil for hundreds of years until like yesterday when Indians started moving to America.
	Like, no one thinks that, right?
	No one, I mean, not even remotely true.
	And then his reply, shut the fuck up, white boy.
	What have you built?
	What have you invented?
	What has your father built?
	And his father before that, we'd be lucky to even get one child out of you do better.
	It's like, wow, that is a really racist and negative attitude that Cash has towards white Americans.
	That's concerning for the kind of people that Elon's hiring.
	I don't think he's a representative of Elon's personal opinion of white Americans either.
	It's very strange how cashier feels as if they are in...
	I mean, like, if I was working for a normal, any tech company, I would never post something so charged on social media because it feels like my supervisor would get an email or a bunch of email from people who were pissed off with me, and I would have to sit in a board meeting and explain why I was being a racist on Twitter.
	right?
	And at the very least, that would be an uncomfortable conversation.
	But at the worst, I would expect to be fired from that.
	But Cash obviously feels that there is no threat to his job here, right?
	He feels that this is an appropriate thing, appropriate kind of discourse to have.
	And that's really, really strange to me.
	Like, again, you would have to be in a situation where you felt racially privileged to be able to feel confident and secure enough to pour scorn on another person because of their race.
	That was always what the woke SJW types did.
	And it's weird to see it from the tech bro side because I thought they were against that kind of thing.
	Like, I wouldn't want to see a situation where, like, you know, straight white men were suddenly taking over tech and then pointing score and going, shut the fuck up, brown boy.
	Right?
	I wouldn't want to see that.
	I don't think that kind of discourse is appropriate at all.
	And I don't want to see it.
	Like, how is this not an SJW?
	Like, how is this not just some woke SJW in X?
	You know, Elon's like, I'm going to destroy the woke mind virus.
	But this person seems to be the woke mind virus.
	And, you know, Timpoo points out to another, because again, it wasn't just this one tweet.
	They kept going, if your race is so great, why am I out competing on every access that actually matters?
	Huh.
	Okay.
	Thankfully, evolution will take care of you in due time.
	Good luck to you and your children if you are capable of having any.
	What a horrible way to approach anyone.
	Why is this person so confident in their job and in their position that they can say, look, I think they do at some point point out that they're Indian as well.
	Why can they feel so confident and secure in their position?
	And so to the point where Timpool's like, holy shit, is this really an ex-employee?
	As far as I'm aware, Elon Musk hasn't commented on this.
	Might be worth at least looking at this guy, Elon.
	Like, I mean, I don't think he's a great representative of your company at all.
	And he is making a lot of people think, I mean, again, he's got it in his bio.
	So I don't know whether he is or isn't, but who knows?
	Anyway, yeah, so Jack Sobik keeps pointing out, look, we're losing people.
	We're losing to China.
	Let's import more H-1B bros, please.
	I know that China isn't doing that, but please, bro, we need more tech workers.
	It's like, yeah, I don't think China's doing that.
	So why do we need to do it, actually?
	Why aren't these people making India great again?
	Or Africa great again?
	Or wherever great again?
	Why is it that they only do it in the United States?
	And it's almost like they need the existing structures that someone else has built in order to climb the corporate ladder and take these over.
	So, okay, fine.
	And so you get very, very reasonable, very reasonable perspectives from like the Hodge twins here.
	This is one of my mum's favorite podcasts, by the way.
	And they just say, look, Americans should be hired and trained before any foreigner.
	I don't know how this is controversial.
	It's not, right?
	Unless you have like raging Indian supremacists and anti-white racists staffing the institutions.
	Then it does become controversial.
	And you're going to make it so that China's going to take over somehow.
	It's like, right.
	I'm not sure that's true.
	And I actually don't think that Americans should lack confidence, actually.
	Because again, it's not like I've been to America probably like, I don't know, eight, nine times now.
	I go to America all the time.
	And I've got loads and loads of American friends.
	And I've been around America.
	I've been to both the coasts.
	I've been to various states in the middle and in the north and the south.
	And everywhere I've gone, I've always been impressed with Americans and their self-confidence, right?
	They are confident people that can do things.
	There's no reason to think that foreign peoples are better than Americans, right?
	I'm not saying Americans are better than other people, but there's no reason the Americans should lack self-confidence in any way.
	No, you can do stuff.
	And it's good that you do stuff.
	And you should do stuff.
	And you don't need to privilege a bunch of foreigners over your own country.
	And it's not controversial in the slightest.
	It's totally normal.
	And you can feel perfectly secure in that.
	I really mean this, right?
	I literally to my American friends.
	Don't let them neg you.
	Because that's what this comes across as, right?
	This comes across as negging.
	Like this is like, this is like the pickup line bros where they're like, yeah, if you just make a woman feel bad enough about herself, she'll let you have sex with her.
	If you just make the Americans feel bad enough about themselves, they'll let you move to their fucking country.
	Right.
	That's what this is.
	This is the immigrant version of negging.
	And i'm telling you guys, you don't need to listen to them at all.
	You are just as you are, beautiful the way that you are.
	I really mean it like you.
	They need you, right.
	They, these people, they need you right.
	Engineer X.
	He required an American to build x, right.
	He required Americans to do all of these things, and now that he has worked his way up through these Dei processes, he's now shitting down on Americans.
	But he, he didn't build this in India, didn't build this in their home countries.
	They need you.
	You don't need them.
	You will do just fine on your own.
	I promise you Americans and I say this as again, a sincere and well-meaning friend, you know, and I really mean this, like I have always said, everyone keeps asking me I, so many Americans say, when are you moving to America, bro?
	And i'm like never.
	I'm never moving to Merit.
	It's not that I don't love America, it's not that I don't love Americans.
	I'm an Englishman, I want my sons to be Englishmen and therefore I have to raise them in England.
	This is, this is our land, right.
	And so I say this as someone who's got no designs on the United States whatsoever.
	I'm not, I don't want to move there, i'm not going to take anything.
	I'm looking at this as a, as an observer, an outside concern party, and saying, look, don't let these pricks neg you.
	You guys are pretty great and I like you a lot and I want you to do.
	Well, you do not have to take this right.
	You and I, I really mean this.
	You do not have to take this from them.
	You can tell them to shut the fuck up and go home and they'll be like, well don't, don't send me home.
	And there you go, the entire problem will be settled.
	They're not going to go home and make their own countries great.
	They, they need your greatness for their prosperity.
	And man, this is so weird.
	Right, this is so weird.
	Even someone like Nikki Haley was on the right side of the argument, as Pedro points out.
	It's like, how is Nikki Haley to the right of the DOE CREW?
	And I don't like.
	I don't like calling the DOZE CREW right, because I really support Elon's initiative of reducing the spending of federal government.
	Right, I really support it.
	I totally support it.
	So anyway, Nikki Haley even her was like there's nothing wrong with American workers or American culture.
	Oh yeah, that's true.
	I mean this, that's totally true.
	Americans you're a Protestant culture you work really hard.
	And I saw a tick tock video the other day from an immigrant who was like I was told Americans are really lazy.
	And I got here and like the, you know the average, the all the all my American comrades colleagues, get up at like six in the morning and then go for a run and get their breakfast ready and then they're at the desk by eight o'clock and they work until six o'clock and blah blah, blah.
	And he's like, oh my god, they work a lot.
	Yeah yeah, we do not.
	You, i'm not an American, But, like, the northwestern European cultures validate themselves through hard work, right?
	We think collectively that if we work hard, put food on the table, and have money in the bank, then we are good, virtuous people.
	That's what we think virtue is, right?
	That is the cultural norm for the English-speaking world, right?
	All that's that's what we think.
	That's a background assumption in our mind.
	So, we just do work all the hours God sends.
	I mean, I'm on my holiday working right now, right?
	This is, you know, I could just be sat around doing nothing, getting drunk, but I'm not.
	I'm instead working on something because I think this is important.
	This is my job.
	And I just feel compelled to work as lots and lots of other people do.
	And this is a great, great question.
	Sorry, I'm talking for ages and my throat's scratchy now.
	Yeah, don't get me wrong.
	I'm not trying to in any way redeem Nikki Haley, by the way.
	Nikki, the neocon Haley.
	I'm not in any way.
	But as Pedro points out, this is bizarre.
	You know, Nikki Haley is flanking the tech bros from the right.
	That's a weird thing.
	You know, from the more patriotic angle of American workers are good and there's nothing wrong with them.
	Like, we should be investing and prioritizing in America's not foreign workers.
	Don't give them the open goals like this, right?
	Don't give Nikki Haley the open goal because she's just trying to get in so she can do evil things elsewhere.
	But this person asks, I don't know any of these counts, by the way.
	These are just parts of the discourse that I found interesting.
	Someone explains to me why the Indian government and broader political class isn't panicking over getting their elite human capital brain-drained, ensuring they have no shot at being globally competitive with their major next-door geopolitical and economic rival.
	As in India and China, I mean, they always have like border skirmishes or dance-offs or whatever they have on like the Himalayan border.
	Like they, there's tension between India and China.
	They don't really like each other.
	They're both similarly sized countries and economies.
	And so there's why is India not like, why are all our best and brightest going overseas?
	Like, why is this the case?
	Aren't we worried about that?
	And the thing is, the Indians do not seem to be worried about that.
	They cheer when like Rishi Senek becomes Prime Minister of Great Britain.
	It's like, but if Rishi Senek is so good, why don't you want him to be the Prime Minister of India?
	Like, why wouldn't you want him?
	No, come back so we can vote for you.
	So you can fix our country in the way you fix Britain.
	Said no one ever because Rishi Senek was shit.
	Like, he wasn't good.
	And so it was just like, why aren't you bothered by this?
	This is a real concern.
	I just, it's a very strange thing that nobody seems to be addressing.
	Anyway, so after this blew up, and this all blew up today, Elon took it fairly well because a lot of the people were pushing back, but not in a way that I think is necessarily hostile to him, although some were, admittedly.
	But Elon says, well, legal immigration is a hot-button topic.
	I kind of stepped on this button.
	It's like, yeah, because Elon's world is very different to the world of the people who are being affected by the H-1B visas, right?
	Elon gets to handpick the people who live around him, basically.
	He gets to live wherever he wants because he is the richest man, not only in the world now, but probably in all of human history.
	What's he worth?
	400 billion now or something like that?
	It's like Elon is worth an unbelievable amount of money.
	He has the power and the wealth to like he could buy a town if he wanted.
	He'd just buy a town and make sure the only people who could live in it would be the people he could handpick.
	He probably does do this.
	I don't know.
	But he has the freedom to do any of these things.
	Whereas most people don't have anything like that.
	And in fact, find their communities changing, inundated with H-1B visa immigrants who are not high-skilled, who are not people who are big fans of America necessarily, but are just here to get what they can get while they can get it.
	And so this is a hot-button immigration topic that Elon was, I guess, kind of blind to, right?
	He's looking down his road and he doesn't see all of this.
	And then suddenly these people crowd stood in front of going, no, this is bad.
	He's just like, oh, why is this bad?
	Donald Trump gets it a lot better than Elon does.
	And of course, he's like, well, look, if they're attention-seeking trolls, don't respond because that's when they win.
	But it's like, no, the thing is, Elon, these weren't people trolling you.
	These were people with genuine concerns.
	Again, if you look at the people I've been citing in this, Distributist, Auron, Jack Pesobieg, people, Timpool, these are conservative dads, mate.
	These are all conservative dads.
	I'm a conservative dad.
	Like, the conservative dads are trying to get through on this issue and say, look, if it was just like, you know, Indian like nuclear physicists or something, whatever it is, you know, and top quality engineers, then that would be one thing.
	But it's clearly not.
	It's clearly not just that.
	There's not 250,000 of them a year coming across to you and then 250 or 350,000, then 250,000 coming here.
	And if there was, surely the Indians would be like, well, hang on a second.
	What the fuck are you doing?
	They're our people.
	Why are you draining these people from our countries?
	And so he puts out this clarification, which is, I think, helpful.
	And actually, while the MAGA folks do have a good point in, well, even then, these things should be for Americans.
	This is a you can, I think, be slightly softer on this issue if you are inclined to be without losing your country.
	Even though I think a lot of people will say, no, I'm just going to still be hardline and rigid on this because that's an easy thing to do when it's just you talking on the internet.
	He says, I'm referring to bringing in via legal immigration the top 0.1% of engineering talent as being essential for America to keep winning.
	This is like bringing the jockeys or Wembies of the world to your whole team, mostly Americans win the NBA.
	I follow the NBA, so I don't know anything about these people.
	Thinking of America as a pro-sports theme that has been winning for a long time, wants to keep winning is the right mental construct.
	It's like, yeah, kind of.
	But again, I think the more three-dimensional view that the conservative dads have is also an important one because it's not just about the victories that the American NBA or the American engineering team can rack up.
	There are also substantive issues under the surface that need to be addressed.
	And again, these are outside of Elon's world.
	And so I can completely understand why he doesn't see them.
	But I think that a lot of people are seeing them.
	And actually, they're quite important.
	So I appreciate you, chat, explaining the NBA to me.
	But I'm going to be honest, I don't care about the NBA.
	It doesn't matter.
	But anyway, so chat, what do you think?
	What do you think?
	These have been my thoughts on this.
	And I'm speaking from this perspective as a conservative dad.
	So this, you know, from a lot of other conservative dads seems to be the case.
	But that's the point.
	Your country isn't the sports team.
	It's your country.
	There's a much more rich perspective on what the country is that is more important.
	Think it is important to win, obviously, but I think America is winning.
	And I think that actually having a more having a more well, how to describe it, like a richer substratum out of which brilliance can grow is better than the sort of you know, it feels like this is kind of like a sort of Maoist version of tilling the fields, right?
	Mao's like, okay, look, I want you to plant the seeds deeper.
	I want you to plant them closer together, and for the first couple of years, you get a bumper harvest, right?
	And the farmer's like, yeah, but this isn't going to work because you're draining the soil of the essential nutrients that it's going to require.
	And so, okay, we're getting bump harvest now, but the next harvest is going to be a famine and we're going to go hungry and millions will die, which is precisely what happened.
	And of course, Mao didn't listen.
	So he's like, no, I want the bump harvest now.
	It's like, okay, but you're burning up the future for the gains of the present.
	And it feels that that's what Elon is doing with this perspective.
	Like, you've got seven years.
	Open an engineering school.
	If anyone's got the money to do this, you definitely do.
	Set the standards as high as you want, right?
	Like, literally starting the Elon Musk School for High Tech Engineering.
	There's got to be a nice acronym that Elon can find appealing that he can use.
	And then just put the applications to get on it.
	Just insanely high.
	So you're like, look, look, you can apply.
	You just have to be an insane brainiac to be able to apply.
	But what we're going to do is essentially everyone who goes to this gets a scholarship.
	So you pass all these tests.
	We'll pay for you to go to this school.
	And then we will give you a job being the most brilliant.
	So you can guarantee that he has curated the top talent in the United States, given them a path to succeed, and got them to the end of it.
	And so they're going to be, obviously, where else are they going to want to go?
	It's like, no, obviously, I want a high-paying job with Elon Musk at SpaceX or Tesla or whatever it is.
	I went through his courses.
	Why wouldn't I want to be there?
	And so Elon will have done the thing that he wanted, as well as satisfied the sentimental requirements and the sort of thick requirements of being the sort of noblisse oblige requirements of the businessmen that the businessmen of America used to have.
	Again, the old Henry Ford quote comes back, doesn't it?
	It's like, why do you pay your staff $5 an hour or $5 a day or whatever it was to build your cars?
	And he says, well, because I want them to buy them.
	Enriching your own people actually does help you out in the long run.
	Anyway, let's go to the Super Chats.
	I'll get to that in a minute, Redactor, because that's an interesting point.
	Because Trump seems to have a foot in both camps.
	That's the problem.
	Right, where am I?
	Dashing Rogue says, the H1B visa needs to go.
	It's being abused by India for socio-religious reasons, caste.
	Also, James Lindsay is Gnostic because he won't define his terms.
	James Lindsay is just on a very, he's in a fragile and diminishing place, right?
	It's like a person who's standing on top of an outcropping, watching the walls, the floor falling away under him.
	And he's on an ever-narrowing position.
	I'm just certain that if he commits hard enough to standing in that place, then the floor will stop dropping out underneath him.
	It's too late.
	It's far too late.
	But yeah, the H1B visas definitely need to go.
	It's the same here.
	We've got to stop having mass immigration, right?
	Duke says, Dev is a commie.
	I don't know what's going on with Dev.
	Sorry.
	Paul Anthony for CHF20.
	I don't even know what that is, but thank you very much, man.
	I really appreciate it.
	Boga Slava points out that despite disagreement, the right is still polite to him, which is interesting, isn't it?
	Like, I haven't seen anyone on the right being mean to Elon, which is nice.
	I mean, I don't think we should be mean to each other on the internet anyway.
	And I definitely try not to be mean to anyone, actually.
	If you look through my Twitter feed, I'm nice to people.
	I really try to be nice to people.
	Even if I'm telling them I don't respect their intelligence or their learning, I'm still not just insulting them.
	And I think it's important not to just insult people.
	Matthew says, I was a tech bro.
	It was all libertarian when I started in the industry.
	I still work in tech, but I'm fully signed up to the MAGRA agenda.
	I want my son to grow up in a society where he can be happy.
	Yeah.
	Again, the dads.
	It's the conservative dads.
	Like, who among us, when we were young men who didn't have responsibilities and people relying upon us for their very futures, who among us didn't have that kind of atomized libertarian perspective of, I don't care.
	I, you know, what difference does it make if society crumbles?
	I know I will be fine because I am an intelligent and successful and hard-working person, right?
	And that's a normal and understandable position to have.
	But as soon as you have other people depending on you, you realize, oh, wait, actually, the nature of society does matter.
	And it's not just about me.
	It's actually about other people now.
	And I would like my sons and daughters to do well as well.
	And they're not necessarily going to have the same disposition as I do.
	So maybe there are other dimensions to the world that really matter.
	But Matthew, I totally with you.
	I've had the same arc, the totally same arc.
	Imperial says, just finished listening up to the iHypocrite Christmas stream.
	They actually had quite a few good things to say about you on the dissent right.
	Oh, that's very kind of them.
	I don't consider myself to be on the dissident right, but like they make a bunch of criticisms that are important that have to be heard.
	And I mean, to be honest with you, you know, there are important criticisms that come from the left as well that have to be heard.
	The question is what we do with them, right?
	And so I think that we should essentially...
	One of the problems that online movements have is they attract people who are filled with resentment.
	Now, I'm not saying like the dissident right is filled with resentment, but there are some people on the dissident right that are, and the left is overwhelmingly resentful.
	And I don't think we should base any kind of society or any kind of moral decision-making we do on a foundation that is fundamentally informed by resentment.
	However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to these people.
	It doesn't mean we shouldn't take on board any of the critiques that they make because they may be valid.
	And if they're not valid, fine, just ignore it.
	But they may well be valid.
	And so this is something we should be paying attention to.
	To render yourself blind to an opposing critique is a very, very ignorant thing to do and sets you up for a failure.
	You know, if someone's attacking one of your weaknesses, well, why are they able to attack a weakness of yours?
	You should bolster that.
	You should buttress it so it turns into a strength and not a weakness.
	But I mean, I like iHypocrites' Twitter feed.
	And I haven't watched this stream, but it's nice they have nice things to say about me.
	I try to be nice to everyone.
	I try to at least extend a level of respect to people.
	Merry Christmas to you too, Generico.
	Thomas says, woke right is bestowed upon actual right-wingers by newcomers libs as to gatekeep the intellectual territory from right-wing ideals as opposed to liberalism.
	Yeah, and the irony is that liberalism is the original woke movement.
	Like, if woke is identifying systemic power and inequalities and injustices, well, that was precisely what liberalism was designed to do, which is why it leans so heavily on the concept of equality.
	It wants people to be born equal, so there is no justification for social inequalities and systemic hierarchies, social hierarchies.
	And so to be like, oh, they're the work right.
	It's like, well, that's liberalism.
	Like, the right hand of the left is liberalism.
	Ariel says, pre-stream chat highlights.
	Carlin's on black time and must turn his anglica.
	Oh, man.
	Yeah, I was a bit late.
	Look, I remain committed to my Protestant work ethic.
	Thank you very much.
	Silver says, how many works make great videos about this?
	They want H.
	Oh, how many works makes great videos about this?
	They want H-1B visa workers who are already trained and can't shoe around, shop around for better payoff conditions.
	Yeah, and the thing is, as well, right?
	One thing that the NHS has revealed to us is not all degrees are created equal, right?
	So high skilled is a euphemism for has a qualification, right?
	Okay, fine.
	There are lots of people with qualifications.
	However, there are lots of countries that do not have the same scruples that the Western English-speaking world has when it comes to handing out degrees.
	The concept of a bribe is an alien concept in the Anglo world, right?
	It's genuinely alien.
	Like, can you imagine?
	You get pulled over for speeding and you're like, okay, officer, how much?
	Can you even fucking imagine?
	He'd be like, what the hell do you mean?
	Of course, I'm not going to take a bribe, probably.
	Or, you know, you go to your professor and say, okay, well, how much to just give me the degree?
	And, you know, sign it off and then I'll be out of your hair.
	You know, like, I'm sure the average professor would be horrified, horrified to even be proposed to have a bribe.
	But bribery in other countries is totally normal.
	I remember an old boss of mine used to install computers in Africa somewhere.
	And he was telling me about how the police pulled him over and he just had to bribe him for like 10 quid or something to let him go.
	And I was just like, Jesus Christ.
	That's how they run their country.
	He's like, yeah, yeah, it was totally normal.
	I was like, oh, God.
	You know, I just think it's an awful thing.
	And we don't realize how normalized bribery is in other countries.
	And so, like, in Britain, we had a thing about Nigerian nurses.
	Oh, look, we've got so many qualified Nigerian nurses.
	It turns out a lot of them just weren't qualified.
	They were just lying.
	Either they lied about their qualification or they bought their qualification, as in they bribed someone to get it, or they had one of their family members do the exams for them.
	And so they themselves don't have the knowledge that the qualification would imply that they have.
	And so it's like, okay, well, you know, high skilled isn't just a universal category of good, right?
	There are lots of other things underneath it.
	The forced meme follows on that position, actually, saying H-1B visa applicants are just new age indentured servants.
	No new immigration means precisely just that.
	They'd sooner import an indentured class of workers and actually improve a lot of the native inhabitants.
	Well, this is a lot easier.
	V made a video the other day talking about this, saying, well, look, lots of people from Romania move to other countries.
	And they come back and explain to him that, look, basically all the farm workers, like they hire people who speak Romanian or Bulgarian or something like that and don't have English speakers there.
	And so it essentially becomes a kind of indentured servitude where they, you know, they'll set up like a block of flats or accommodation and take that out of their paychecks and stuff like this.
	And so essentially they're kind of trapped in as an underclass of foreign immigrant labor working, picking fruit in the fields.
	And it's like, yeah, you couldn't do that to a native because we know what our rights are.
	We speak English.
	We'd be able to approach the authorities and say, hey, I'm essentially being kept as a slave here.
	But if you're some Bulgarian fucking immigrant who's just come over and you're just like, okay, I can't speak the language.
	I've got nowhere to go.
	I don't know anyone.
	I don't know how the laws work.
	I don't know that this is even illegal.
	What do you do?
	You know?
	And it's like, and you would just bust in, you know, in the same sort of way as the H-1B visa applicants are.
	So it's just, you know, it's not nearly as cut and dried as the narrative would have you believe, I think.
	Silver Kamara again says, Similar story, but the CEO of KPMG, I don't know who that is offhand, wrote an article about how the country needs more accountants after he laid off 4% of the company's workers.
	And you know what's interesting?
	I believe that tech has been downsizing a lot recently.
	So is there an excess of workers?
	I don't know.
	Is there an excess of jobs?
	I don't know.
	Joe says, well, a short-term view.
	He thinks importing talent is winning.
	Whereas every normal person knows it to be symptomatic of losing.
	Yeah, that's a great point.
	Why are you not producing the talent?
	How is it that India or Africa, wherever, China can be viewed as more of a fertile recruiting ground than the United States itself when it comes to talent?
	It's crazy.
	It's crazy.
	Vivid Spoon says, can you please set Tim straight on the definition of woke?
	He doesn't seem to get it.
	He might listen to you.
	I don't know what his definition of woke is, actually.
	But I'm happy to put him straight on it.
	Again, I don't know how he defines woke, but Not So Good says, Coming from a Jeet, can you guys stop importing elite human capital?
	Brackets, Jeets.
	I didn't come to Britain for Britain to be flooded with them.
	Well, this is another thing, right?
	So you get people who come to a place because they love the place.
	Like, if I moved to Greece, assuming I count as elite human capital, I would learn Greek.
	I would do what I could to integrate.
	I would pay my taxes.
	I would work hard.
	I would engage in whatever cultural festivals they had, right?
	If then they brought in loads of English working class who were just lazing around doing the manual jobs and setting up loads of pubs.
	And so I'm walking down, you know, a high street in Athens or a Greek town or something.
	And it's just English pubs and chippies.
	I'm like, look, this isn't why I came here.
	This is not why I came here.
	Why have these people been allowed to come here?
	I'd be in not so good's position here, right?
	Phil that remains says, I'm late, but James Lindsay has kids.
	Oh, hey, Phil, good to see you.
	James Lindsay really needs to start thinking like he has kids then, doesn't he?
	If he has kids, he needs to really start thinking about what it means to be a father rather than what it means to be James Lindsay.
	Silver again says, This is why I don't think the economy will get better under Trump because issues with the economy and how Wall Street runs things ultimately hasn't changed since 2008 and politicians can't fix it.
	It's a bit of a larger subject that I didn't want to get into in this.
	Adam Smith says, put an Indian in management and they'll only hire other Indians.
	In Australia, they're setting up fake colleges to exploit education visas so they can recruit more Indian workers.
	Yeah, this is something that there is so much anecdotal evidence about.
	There are loads.
	you know what's really funny go to reddit You find posts like this.
	Why are there so many Indian immigrants now?
	And of course, they have to like edit it.
	Come on, Reddit.
	Slow piece of shit.
	I never use Reddit, by the way.
	Oh.
	Okay, I don't know why that was bad.
	Right, but uh, okay, but like, why is Canada letting me more Indians?
	Why are there so many Indian immigrants now?
	Why are there so many Indians?
	You know, don't even have an explanation for Indians, like it like, and a lot of them.
	I was looking at this the other day, these people like it's look, I'm not asking to be racist, I'm just genuinely curious, you know, blah, blah, blah.
	And it's like, okay, yeah, there are lots of, and again, you can find posts about this anywhere where it's like, look, I work in tech.
	We hired an Indian guy, he hired a bunch of other Indians, and now everyone in there is Indian, and I'm expected to do all the work.
	It's like, look, I'm not in tech.
	I can't say yes or no.
	I'm just seeing a lot of these testimonies.
	And I don't think that every single one of these people is lying.
	I think that maybe they're telling us a real experience that they have had, and maybe it's worth addressing that.
	AC says, is Elon censoring people that go outside that go against this autistic worldview?
	You know, I don't want to say that he's censoring anyone.
	I don't know that the account was censored, but it was mysteriously removed.
	Again, not even suspended.
	I'm not saying Elon said maybe the guy didn't like the amount of backlash he was getting or the amount of attention he was getting and deleted his accounts to be safe or something.
	There are other examples.
	There are other explanations.
	I don't know.
	I'm not saying that's the case.
	But Trey says, America is a home, not an economic zone.
	And that's the most important way to look at this.
	The country is your home.
	It is where you live.
	It is not just an economic unit.
	It is more than that.
	It is emotional.
	It is romantic.
	It is sentimental.
	It is the place where you should feel safe, where you should feel that you belong.
	And that's something completely different to whether you are simply a temporary worker on the make.
	Horace says immigration is the one issue we cannot cuck on.
	Completely agree.
	It's the most important issue.
	It's the one thing we can't really recover from.
	If I'm to draw a line in the sand on any issue, it is this.
	And honestly, I agree with that.
	And I think it's interesting how the MAGA chuds, I love the word chud.
	I don't mean it derogatorily.
	The MAGA types made Elon bend a little on it, right?
	He was like, oh no, I just want the 0.1% top immigration.
	So he's gone from we need safe and legal immigration and I'm for lots more immigration.
	So oh no, I'm just for the 0.1.
	So Horace and good on the MAGA guys on Twitter and X and various other places being like, no, we're not having this.
	We want less immigration because you are completely right.
	It's the one issue we can't cuck on.
	I totally agree.
	Anyone who is patriotic towards their countries, we have to be realistic about just the sheer number of people who have come here to America, to the United Kingdom, to France, to Germany in the past 10 years.
	It just has to stop.
	In fact, as the last Russian here says, it seems these people aren't thinking in civilizational terms, not looking ahead by multiple generations.
	I expected better from Elon.
	Well, I did too, but you've got to remember he does have a very high-pressure job where he's got a thing to look at.
	He's got a job to do.
	He's got a series of commitments.
	And he is thinking as a technical person, how can I fill these commitments?
	He's just, I just need all of these things in line.
	I can understand how he gets to this point.
	But I think it is important, as Horace points out, that we just can't back down on this.
	Like this, it doesn't matter how you get categorized.
	It doesn't matter what they're called.
	We just have to be able to make a claim to sovereignty to our own countries, right?
	That has to be it.
	And Horace again says we need to defeat the pro-immigration right.
	Business interests cannot supersede the needs of the people.
	The conflict was always inevitable.
	I agree.
	I completely agree.
	And I think that in this battle, that side has won out, right?
	Again, Elon backed away from his position.
	He didn't just keep doubling down on it.
	So I do think that the more nativist perspective has won out here.
	He didn't back away completely, and he hasn't come over to this side.
	But he has definitely accepted that there is a lot of pushback on this.
	And he was like, okay, I just want the very tippy top of the excellent engineers, which I personally would be willing to compromise on.
	I personally, okay, fair enough, that's fine.
	Now we can stop the H1 visas.
	We can stop mass immigration into England.
	We can stop these things.
	And yeah, you can have your like, because it'll literally be a couple of hundred at most autistic engineers from around the rest of the world that come over to work on Elon's projects.
	Okay, whatever.
	You know, I'm not, it's not great, but it could be a lot worse, right?
	But on the plus side, I think that the anti-immigration right did win this argument or this conflict.
	Ace says they are completely misunderstanding.
	This is a culture war, not an economic one.
	Yet another example of foreign elites not understanding the concerns of ordinary native peoples.
	And that's interesting because as much as I love Elon, he does have the position and perspective of an immigrant, right?
	Like he's obviously very pro-America, but he is not originally an American.
	And so, you know, it's again, I'm not saying that's bad or anything like that.
	There's something wrong with Elon or anything like that.
	But you've got to remember these will inform his worldviews.
	He doesn't have deep roots in the United States.
	Even if he does have a genuine love of the United States, which I do think that he has, still not the same as having those deep roots that go into the ground.
	Silver Fox, Silver Kamara, sorry, says, to be honest, I think you're looking too much into this.
	I think it's not about fox and lion.
	They genuinely want dependent workers.
	You don't have to train.
	Yeah, maybe.
	But the arguments that Vivek was making were fox arguments against Trump's lion arguments of, no, even though I benefit from this, it has to end.
	Fate of Morality says, I'd be a lion if I said I was unhappy you were streaming.
	Welcome back, you foxy animal.
	Thank you very much.
	Easy says, as an American engineer, I can say that the schools don't teach how hiring works.
	No one explains that the person reviewing the applications is weighing the risks of hiring someone with no prior experience.
	The first job is the hardest.
	Yeah, this is always, and this is, this has always been a problem.
	Like, you know, you go to university, you get a bunch of qualifications, and then they're like, okay, but what experience do you have doing the job?
	It's like, well, none, I'm literally just out of university.
	I'm looking for this job to get the experience to be able to get a job.
	And they're like, no, come back when you've got experience.
	And it is a vicious circle that's very hard to break.
	And it's not fun.
	Sorry, I'm fiddling autistically with a thing that holds miniatures.
	Just because, gotta do something with your hands, right?
	The Engaged View says, if Peter Zahan is to believe China is heading towards a demographic collapse that may be unrecoverable, I shudder to think what happened if this is true.
	Well, I mean, China is suffering from massive demographic issues.
	Again, the population collapse issue is not a Western problem.
	It is a worldwide problem.
	It's only Africa that's not having a population collapse.
	And I would suggest it's because Africa has a lot less familiarity with birth control, right?
	I really think that's probably the case.
	Don't worry, Dream Cream, no problem.
	The Dashing Rogue says, yeah, India's culture is not superior in one way or another.
	Well, again, I've had these conversations about cultural superiority.
	I actually really don't like them because it implies there's a metric by which if our cultures could be found to be insufficient for whatever external requirement someone would place on us, then it would be justified to get rid of our cultures.
	And so, no, I don't agree that there is a condition under which, if satisfied, our culture could be justified in getting rid of.
	So, I don't like to do that kind of cultural analysis with other cultures.
	I think the question is, is one culture or another preferable to us as we are situated subjective beings in our own countries?
	And the answer for me is personally, no.
	I don't have any interest in that culture.
	I don't really want SIT proliferating or any other culture proliferating in my country.
	I have a preference for my country's culture.
	I think that should be the primary culture in my country.
	And I'm sure that Americans feel the very same way about American culture in America, which is totally normal and fine.
	And we therefore don't have to worry about like metrics to rank cultures because there's no good comes from this.
	I'm happy for the Indians to be Indian, for the Africans to be African, for the Chinese to be Chinese, for the Europeans to be European, and even the French to be the French.
	I'm happy for them to do it over there so I can get out of the chippy, get myself battered cotton chips.
	Easy says, that's me, American engineer working for a Chinese EV battery manufacturer.
	They copy Western innovation and import engineers teach the locals.
	Exactly my point, right?
	Am I not completely on the money with this?
	Like, this is why the Chinese have loads of spies in American universities sending stuff back to China, right?
	The Chinese are not innovating.
	They're stealing all of your tech.
	And because America is such an open society, because Britain is such an open society, that we have loads of Chinese spies operating on.
	There's a Chinese spy in Westminster right now.
	And it was the subject of a scandal just for Christmas, but nothing's happened.
	They're still there.
	And it's just like, okay, well, just, all right, alleged Chinese spies wandering around Westminster.
	No one's going to do anything about it.
	Enjoy your Christmas.
	It's like, okay.
	But anyway, this keeps happening in American universities where Chinese spies go there as students, steal loads of stuff, and send it back to China, and then they get prosecuted.
	That happens all the time.
	Dr. Squirrel Boy says, I have heard and agreed with your critics on liberalism, but as an American, I have to ask, do you think America is doomed because it is found on British liberal values?
	Well, no, England is the place of British liberal values.
	The problem is the distinction between the ideology and the worldview, right?
	Americans are normally, as they, you know, the Anglo-culture they are, it's a part of their worldview.
	So you don't, the ideology has a cultural sort of body in which it lives that naturally limits how far it goes.
	When you take the ideology out of its cultural substrate and then impose it on something else, the limits disappear, right?
	And this is why you get the French Revolution.
	This is why you get the Russian Revolution.
	This is why you get the Chinese Revolution.
	This is why you get millions dead in these cases.
	Like when the culture, when the texture of the traditional society doesn't contain the ideology, the ideology breaks free and does crazy things.
	So no, America isn't doomed.
	Nothing's doomed.
	That's the thing.
	The West, the problem the West has is it's taking the ideology from the foreign places and allowing it to gestate in here rather than addressing it at the root.
	And it's like, okay, but we don't need ideology.
	We know how to live as the people.
	Like all liberalism is, as the ideology distilled from the tradition, right?
	All it is, is foreigners trying to be English, right?
	That's what they want.
	I want individual rights.
	I want limited government.
	I want private property protection.
	It's like, oh, you want to be English, right?
	That's what you're asking for.
	I want what the English have.
	I want the rights of Englishmen.
	And then you start getting theory, right?
	Okay, you've got that from John Locke, where he abstracts it to the rights of men.
	And they'll go, oh, yeah, yeah.
	And then you start getting Frenchmen think about it, then Germans think about it, and then it snowballs into some bullshit that it was never meant to be in the beginning.
	We don't need to worry about ideology.
	We can ignore ideology entirely and say, no, we as Englishmen and the descendants of Englishmen, the inheritors of the English common tradition, we don't need to listen to any ideology because we already know how to live as Englishmen because we can't help but do it.
	So don't worry, we're not doomed.
	You're not doomed.
	Nobody's fucking doomed.
	All we have to do is just not listen to these fucking lunatics.
	AC says, how is it morally right to treat the rest of the world as a surf class to prop us up?
	Yeah, well, that's another question because this is essentially a form of neo-imperialism.
	We have a right to conscript the manpower of foreign cultures and bring them to our own because we can incentivize them far better than their own countries can.
	I mean, someone who is playing a more fair game would say, well, I don't think I have a right to the brilliant people of India or Africa or China or wherever.
	I actually don't have a right to those people.
	And I should be working on making Americans better rather than stealing their good people.
	And we have this problem with the NHS.
	Like, if the Nigerian doctors and nurses are so great, doesn't Nigeria need them?
	You know, we end up being kind of parasitic on these countries.
	And actually, I don't really want to live in a parasitic civilization.
	I don't think we should be a parasitic civilization, AC, as you say.
	Like, I don't think that's morally right.
	And so we need to change our thinking.
	Nick says, Vivek has demonstrated that he's the American version of Rishi Sinek.
	Basically, yeah.
	Cowboy Curtis says, it's time to reject Vivek and embrace Dagoth and the Sixth House.
	Only Dagoth Ur will drive the Mongrel dogs from the Empire of Morrowind.
	You know, I haven't played the original Morrowind.
	I think that's what it's from.
	Or Morrowind.
	I haven't played it, so I don't get the reference.
	But again, I don't want to reject Vivek.
	I don't think he's a bad guy.
	Although he does come across a little bit slimy with this sort of weird turn to attack traditional American culture.
	There's no need for it.
	There's no need for it whatsoever.
	I'm going to skip over a bunch of comments about the Vivek stuff just to get to it.
	The Big Bang theory is nerd caricature.
	It mocks nerds.
	Well, it doesn't.
	It centers the nerds.
	It is playful towards them, but it also makes them the main characters of the story of the life that it tells.
	And that's all well and good, but that doesn't make the jocks stupid.
	That doesn't make them bad.
	And that's often how they're rendered, either stupid or bad in Big Bad Theory, Big Bang Theory.
	And I know, because I had to watch loads of it.
	I had housemates back in the day who were huge fans.
	And I never liked it, man.
	Never liked it.
	But I've seen dozens of episodes.
	I don't know, hundreds probably of episodes of this.
	Lance says, I'm a biomedical engineer.
	They want to hire people who will work 70 hours a week.
	I'm 100% UA and I can't afford a house or anything.
	Americans will work hard, then get a real life out of their hard work.
	That's the theory, anyway.
	But you start getting undercut there, don't you?
	Milo says, anyone who's worked in corporate America for the last few years knows how it works.
	As soon as an Indian is in leadership, that's all they hire and soon their entire company is magically all Indians.
	And again, the nepotistic nature of other cultures is something that we really need to accept is real, right?
	So there are good studies.
	There are good studies.
	One book that I would strongly recommend is Alan McFarlane's The Origins of English Individualism.
	Superb book.
	Absolutely superb.
	Because in it, he goes, he goes through an exhaustive study and points out that English culture has been based around the nuclear family for at least 800 years, as in the extended family, hasn't really had much of a say in English culture.
	And of course, so when the English end up colonizing Canada, America, New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa, well, they take their culture with them.
	Right now.
	That's in contrast to much of the most of the rest of the world.
	The Scandinavians are quite similar and the Dutch are quite similar, and so is northwestern Germany, but the rest of the world just isn't like that.
	The rest of the world is more clannish, more familial.
	So if you look at, like the Italians, the Mediterraneans generally, the Spanish, the Greeks the, the Italians, the Portuguese, you know north Africa and it's all much bigger extended families where you've got a lot more social obligation right to your family members, and this is the same in India, it's the same in China, it's the same well, anywhere really.
	And so these things have an effect on the social life of the country when they're introduced to it.
	If we're not prepared to understand how these things work well, we get what we deserve, don't we right?
	It's like we, we should be conscious of this.
	It is true, and it's not in any way prejudicial.
	It's not a judgment.
	I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they definitely operate in different ways and we should be aware of that.
	Uh I, i'm gonna, i'm gonna avoid some of the.
	If there are derogatory comments, I want to avoid them.
	I want to be nice.
	Uh, because I am nice, um uh Ray says I don't think it should be, I don't think they should take in more immigrants, but there have been people that have been in the country for over 10 years and have not yet received a green card, pr due to arbitrary quotas.
	Yeah, and this is another thing, isn't it like?
	There's we.
	It's easy to say immigrants equals bad or not good, or get rid of or don't want, but there are.
	There are, like a, you know, a small number of immigrants that are not harmful, will not substantively change the demographic makeup of a country, and have demonstrated a commitment of loyalty.
	Right, they've demonstrated through labor, through working, like if someone you know serves in the military or something for 10 years or 20 years or whatever, then yeah okay, I think that person, we can accept those, because I mean, that person is not going to represent most of the immigration into the country.
	And if the immigration was only made up of people who are willing to perform a life of service well, then it wouldn't be very much at all, would it, you know?
	And so we could reward those people who deserve rewarding and reject those people who don't deserve rewarding.
	But but things have gone far too far at this point, it seems, and we need to actually be able to make a proper distinction like this, um yeah Americans, Brits and other western Euros are compelled to pretend they don't care if they're surrounded by very hostile racial outsiders who are only there to extract resources.
	Very grim, This isn't genuinely legitimate complaint.
	And it's not just white Americans either, like you say.
	People like the Hodge twins, black Americans have still got the same issue, right?
	Like, black Americans are just as American as white Americans.
	I hate to tell people.
	And they are also outsiders to this.
	Like, don't be fooled with the way that the left are like, oh, it's people of color.
	No, you know, a lot of black Americans don't fall into that category in the minds of the immigrants who are now taking over the jobs and things.
	You know, they just get, they get lumped in as American.
	Sad Wings Raging says, my medium rare steak just got more delicious.
	Well, you know, I'm going to have my medium well.
	And I don't care what people on Twitter say about it.
	I enjoy mine as how old mine is.
	Oh, hash says, correction, cash is Canadian and Jewish.
	Again, if you're Canadian at all, you're fully gay.
	That's what I said, right?
	Well, like, immigrant, right?
	Didn't even realize.
	And again, why would someone have that attitude?
	You know, I realize a lot of people say, well, it's because they're a Jewish immigrant.
	I don't know if that's the case.
	I think that it's because there's a system of incentives around them.
	But I don't want to get into that.
	Crucify me later.
	Motocross says, which group of Americans is of the greatest loyalty and dedication to America?
	Well, I'd say it's the one group of people who do not hyphenate their American identity with an ethnicity.
	I think that is perfect.
	You know, put a pin in that, slap that everywhere.
	In fact, I might tweet that out.
	That is, that is just perfect.
	I couldn't have put it better.
	Couldn't have put that better at all.
	Give me a second.
	I'm just actually going to tweet this out because it is, I think, too perfect, not to.
	if i can get this working uh oh my nose fell off
	Uses China to fear monger Europeans into accepting millions of people who polluted in all sorts of ways in the entire subcontinent.
	No, just no.
	Well, again, like, I'm not passing judgment on Indians.
	Like I said, I've met lots of Indian people who are very nice.
	And, you know, there are lots of middle-class, polite Indians who are very nice.
	And I don't want to stigmatize them.
	I don't want to feel that they're not welcome or something like that.
	But on a personal level, but on a systemic level, things have gone far too far.
	And we really need to be able to talk about it.
	Sagi says, ask American women between 35 and 18 what her plan for children is and she will look at you like you're a slaver.
	How do you plan to be part of the future when women can't want to have babies?
	Yeah, the feminist psyop on women has been fucking incredible, actually.
	In the worst kind of ways, in the darkest possible ways.
	It's been so thoroughly effective.
	It's genuinely concerning, isn't it?
	Cool dude says, we have to deal with truck drivers at work coming to our loading docks to take truckloads.
	The Indian drivers are the worst.
	They're completely rude to us and leave their trash and even their excrement in our loading bay.
	Again, we are literally indiscriminately bringing people across.
	That's the problem.
	And we've got to stop being indiscriminate.
	This is what it has to be.
	It's what it has to be.
	Sorry, I'm just refreshing.
	Thank you, Ajan.
	Buzinski says, there is a line in the book, Starship Troopers, where Rico is talking to his dad and his dad says something, I want to be a man and serve, not to be a consumer.
	That is important, Bozinski.
	You are absolutely right to highlight that.
	That is important.
	Adam Unfriended, oh no, says, Carl, it's not Adam Friended.
	I don't know what kind of immigrants you've talked to.
	My Afghan parents, family, and immigrant friends from places like India or China will tell you they can't go back because the game was rigged from the start.
	I'd be interested in knowing more.
	AC says, I want to leave something to my son, not just some random page mercenary.
	Yeah, and again, it's it is important that we have a cultural understanding of what the future is going to look like in our countries.
	Stephen says, my grandfather built space shuttles.
	My father ruined himself in the rice fields of Vietnam.
	Both types deserve priority in the US.
	Yeah.
	Again, the Hodge twins have just got it exactly right.
	It's not controversial to say that Americans should be the priority in America.
	That's not a controversial statement.
	And anyone who tells you it is, is trying to get one over on you.
	Emperor Creatine says the H-1B problem is certainly high on the priority list.
	We need to restore the laws and powers against illegal immigration first.
	We'll make it to enforce against visas later.
	Well, I mean, I don't see why these can't really be done concurrently, to be honest.
	I mean, Trump should surely be able to just repeal the legislation that enables the H-1B problem and also close the borders and deport the illegals.
	Redacted Brainwave says, I think Elon and Vivek revealed not only their true beliefs, but also Trump's own agenda.
	Maskoff moment.
	Devin Stack is right.
	That's my view.
	I don't actually know what Devon's opinion on this is.
	I don't know if Trump's agenda is that.
	The MAGA movement has a streak of nativism in it that people like James Lindsay and Vivek are trying to excise and turn it into merely globalist liberalism, right?
	But it's not globalist liberalism.
	The MA movement at its core is sort of spiritually, traditionally American, right?
	And so because it's traditionally spiritually American, it seems liberal, right?
	It's got a bunch of liberal priors, but it's not itself ideological and it's not itself something that seeks to legislate for foreign countries, right?
	The MAGA movement is parochial to America.
	And honestly, it's the sort of thing that's best expressed by Steve Bannon.
	He's a very good avatar of the MAGA movement.
	They're not hateful or anything like that.
	They just justly think that the American experience of the world is their own and should be put first in American civic life.
	And I think Trump does feel that in a way.
	But I think that, you know, he's a 78-year-old boomer and doesn't articulate it in the way that it needs to be articulated.
	And I'd be careful about the sort of James Lindsays who want to just turn it into doctrinaire universal liberalism because it's not.
	It is a deeply parochial movement.
	Will says, I don't want to hear any justifications why companies should hire outside the country from people in government.
	Yeah, I mean, that's a great point.
	They're obviously going to be saying it for the convenience of the people who fund them, right?
	It's like, think of the amount of shares Nancy Pelosi owns in various companies.
	And it's like, yeah, well, if we get a bunch of foreign workers who are cheap, you get more money out of the dividends at the end of the year.
	It's like, yeah, I know.
	I know that Nancy Pelosi wants this.
	I know that various other Republican congressmen want this.
	I don't want to hear from the exactly.
	I don't want to hear their problem, right?
	I don't want the easiest solution that makes you more money.
	I want to fix the fucking country.
	And therefore, no foreign workers.
	There are plenty of people in America.
	Get on with it.
	Skinner for $50.
	Thank you, sir.
	Says, Howdy, Carl, I appreciate you working.
	I agree with what you said.
	I'm a Marine veteran currently working on an electrical engineering degree.
	It's pretty depressing looking for a job currently, which is one of the reasons I'm planning on moving to Japan.
	Man, fucking terrible, isn't it?
	My God, you've got literally straight white man's like, yeah, I'm experienced, highly qualified.
	Got to move to Japan to get somewhere in life.
	Jericho says, James, I nicely don't respect your intelligence base, Carl.
	No, no, no.
	I don't want to come across like I don't respect James Lindsay's intelligence.
	He is an intelligent man.
	His problem is he's a mathematician and not a philosopher.
	And so he is attempting to categorize things that actually don't neatly fit into categories.
	And he doesn't have the kind of mind that allows him to see the difference.
	And he's too emotionally immature to be able to actually interrogate that and grow and develop into someone who could do that.
	And he thinks that he can arrest the process of dialectics, which is hilarious.
	He can't, obviously.
	He can't stop that from happening.
	And this is why the outcropping of Rockies On is just slowly and slowly getting smaller and smaller as everyone else continues changing and experiencing the world.
	And James Lindsay commits harder to the original point that he's on.
	Adam again says, also, Carl, it'd take a thousand years to replicate US systems, and most immigrants are smarter than the average American who goes to school for tech or high-level jobs.
	I don't know if that's necessarily true.
	No, it doesn't take a thousand years to replicate the systems, obviously.
	It's how you got them.
	But I don't know if the immigrants are smarter than the average American.
	I'd be surprised if that were the case, to be honest.
	The gym says, I'm thinking of modelling a major MPC in my 40k tabletop RPG after you.
	Thinking ship, captain, planetary governor, or inquisitor.
	Got a preference?
	I quite like the idea of being an inquisitor.
	That sounds fun.
	I think I'd be quite a good inquisitor if I was given the mandate.
	The Donut King says, You think your king or heir will ever support his native-born subjects?
	No, I fucking don't.
	Like, the king's speech, I haven't even watched it, but I've seen the response to it.
	I don't, there was no point watching King Charles's speech.
	Apparently, it is a woke speech that talks about the Southport riots and how everyone involved in them was bad.
	And I saw a bunch of leftists personally, oh my god, they've just discovered the Gammons have just discovered that King Charles is woke.
	It's like, no, he haven't.
	He's always been fucking woke.
	Joe says, become a fortress.
	In a fortress, the weaknesses are designed to fail until at the end you stand weakened and tired for the very strength you'd hope to avoid.
	Yeah, Machiavelli's right about fortresses.
	Don't think that they will save you.
	They won't.
	If you don't have the love of your people, then you've already lost.
	Kim says, time for a Christmas present.
	Well, thank you very much, Kim.
	Thank you for your great work.
	We do appreciate it.
	Well, thank you very much.
	I really appreciate the support.
	Silver says, it's actually legal under American law for a company working abroad to bribe a low-level government official to grease the wheels to get it done fast.
	That's how normal bribery is in foreign countries.
	Again, I just, I can't imagine it.
	I can't imagine.
	I would be embarrassed.
	Like, if I got arrested for something, you know, like they call me and I was like, oh, we've got a non-crime hate incident.
	I'll be like, all right, how much to take it off my record?
	They'd be like, what?
	Oh, God.
	Shit, I'm probably in trouble now.
	Probably in worse trouble than I was for getting a non-crime hate incident.
	You know, like, I just instantly crumble and be totally embarrassed about it.
	I can't even imagine.
	Can't remember.
	This is again, like there, most of the world doesn't think this way, right?
	They don't think this way.
	Omega says, I've been an Akkadian since 2015.
	I tried a few times to send you an email about a few things.
	Either way, keep up the good work, long time fam.
	Well, thank you very much.
	And I may well, I probably have read the emails.
	It's just that I don't have very much time to reply to everyone because I've got a lot going on.
	Like, I tweet fairly regularly, but even then, if you look, my number of tweets a day is not very high because I'm actually not very online and I'm often doing other things.
	Again, follow the link in the description to see what I've that painting took me 25 hours, man.
	And that was over the course of a month.
	So, as you can see, I don't get much time.
	Emperor Creatine says, FYI, even with the degradation of the education system here in the US, the top school in India is the University of Mumbai, which is roughly on par with local community colleges.
	Highly educated, right?
	Well, that's the problem.
	That's the problem.
	GB away for 1,000 ARS.
	I don't know what that is, but it's come up in red, so I'm guessing that's a lot.
	So, thank you very much.
	Overspecialization produces gaps in the craftsmanship area, so to speak.
	Yeah, well, this is the problem with that lots of scientists have, right?
	They're very, very special.
	And James Lindsay, in fact, has this problem.
	I don't mean to keep bringing up James Lindsay, it's just that he's been in my mentors today, like spurking and embarrassing himself, to be honest.
	And it's one of those things where it's like you are too specialized in one thing to understand your deficiencies in the other things.
	And this is a complete, a total problem that lots of people have, and very intelligent people have.
	So, thank you, Philip.
	Good to hear from Northern Ireland.
	Frederick says, when the country needs young people to fight, it will for it.
	Good luck convincing them when the country has disinherited them for cheap labor.
	But also, no, no, but what's worse is you actually end up in a kind of Roman Republican position, right?
	Where the army becomes loyal to the general, who's then going to fight for benefits for his soldiers after they finish campaigning, rather than the army fighting for the state and the political structure that they expect to get that reward out of.
	And so, you actually get lots of disinherited young men.
	If they join the army, well, then you've got a problem, right?
	And this is something that Smedley Butler brought up in the 20s.
	He was saying, look, war's a racket.
	And apparently, there was a plot of businessmen who asked him to raise half a million men and march on Washington.
	And he said, No, I'm not going to do that.
	And it may not have been possible in the 20s for him to have done it either.
	Because, of course, the people may have bought into the system and be like, no, we're not going to march on Washington.
	What are you talking about?
	That's crazy.
	But if there are half a million men who don't buy into the system, they go off and fight a war, they come back, and they're like, Okay, why am I destitute in the country I've just been defending?
	Well, maybe a Smedley Butler of the 2020s onwards, maybe he's got a different opinion, right?
	Maybe he's not as civically minded as the original.
	So it's there are lots of other concerns that come from it.
	Gavatron says, As an Indian who was born and raised in the West, many like myself are excluded from the nepotism only because I only speak English.
	Excuse me.
	It's definitely a cultural divide.
	That's interesting.
	That's interesting.
	So you have been like nativized here and you get discriminated against by Indian immigrants, do you?
	Carson says, Before Sanctuary State was a thing in California, I knew franchise owners who abused the legals in their businesses and would have two dozen of them living in a three-bed, two bath.
	It's absurd what's allowed in this country.
	Oh, that happens here.
	That absolutely happens here.
	It's crazy.
	I'm not showing my feet.
	You don't want to see my feet anyway.
	Jesus Christ.
	America should take standouts.
	That means scientists, engineers who have produced unique contributions are not rank and file engineers.
	We want paperclip style to import elites.
	Yeah, exactly, right?
	Like, literally, okay, take Einstein, but there are so few fucking Einsteins.
	There's no question of, like, demographic displacement or anything like that.
	This is never going to happen.
	That's not an issue at all.
	I hate to do this, but my voice is going.
	And it's also 12th phase, so I need to go to bed.
	So thank you so much for the rest of the super chats that I'm not going to get to, but I'm literally losing my voice.
	But basically, I think we've covered the majority of the issue.
	I think that my position at least is clear.
	I'm glad that the sort of nativists won the argument on this.
	Because the thing is, the tech bros, I do understand their position.
	And they're not bad people.
	They're not ill-meaning people or anything like that.
	But they are wrong on this issue.
	And they're not thinking broadly and deeply enough about it.
	They're too narrowly focused on one particular subject, which is not great.
	But I don't want to have a go at them or anything like that.
	Because again, there are lots of them I do genuinely respect as individuals.
	I mean, Elon's accomplishments are genuinely phenomenal.
	Like, the things he has managed to do.
	The fucking space thing, catching the thing the other day.
	It's like, wow, I actually got to see something incredible happen for the first time in a long time.
	So I don't want to suggest that I'm, you know, make sound that I'm in any way a disrespecter of Elon's side.
	I'm absolutely not.
	I'm a fan of a lot of the stuff he does.
	But I do think he's wrong on this issue.
	And I think I've explained why.
	So anyway, I'll leave that there.

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