Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - The Maori Protests

Nov. 19, 2024 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

01:31:57

The Maori Protests

I don't think we realise what they're protesting against. Liberalism debate: https://www.lotuseaters.com/premium-contemplations-147-or-debate-liberalism-21-10-23

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	Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
	Thank you for joining me on this Tuesday evening, where I'm going to talk about something that recently went pretty viral.
	Hello, chat.
	We're working with the Maori time zone now.
	Now, beginning, as we begin this, I just, I think that actually, with this, a lot of people saw something they weren't very familiar with.
	And I had the same exact response to start with.
	Didn't really understand the context of what was happening.
	And so it was like, oh, that's weird foreign nonsense.
	How embarrassing.
	And just, you know, carried on scrolling.
	But I think that if we actually look a little bit deeper under the surface, we can actually find some common ground with the Maori and find actually a bit of empathy for their position.
	And in fact, if the more you, the more I started looking into this, the more I realized that what these people were opposing were the international globalist liberal world order being imposed upon them when they didn't want it and in opposition to what they already had, which was a non-liberal settlement.
	So for anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, here's one of the Maori party people.
	I can't, so my pronunciations are going to be terrible all through this stream, by the way.
	FYI.
	I apologise in advance.
	I'm a long way from New Zealand, right?
	And I don't have a very firm grasp of domestic New Zealand politics.
	But I've gone through a bunch of treaties and I'm going to talk about things I think I can interpret.
	But if you're from New Zealand and I'm making a mistake, please do let me know.
	Because, like I said, I'm not an expert on this, but I've been looking into it.
	And I think there's something here that we're not quite grasping.
	But anyway, so to begin with, then, this is the bit that went viral.
	you can see why everyone was like the hell is going on so anyway people saw this and we're not massively impressed right they
	They were like, well, these people don't seem very civilized.
	I'm not wearing my tie today, I'm afraid, G-Man, that's true.
	I did actually wear it to the farmer's protest today, but my daughter slobbered on me, and so I had to change.
	But anyway, people looked at her face, looked at the way they're behaving, and we're like, okay, this isn't a very Anglo way of approaching politics.
	We actually usually have discourse and we engage with one another theoretically.
	Again, I think I'm very much overstating this because it's not really what happens.
	But there's a part in this, there's a part in a different one then, where it cuts to like the speaker and he rolls his eyes.
	And he's, oh, God, this again.
	And that I thought was a very interesting thing.
	I wish I could find the clip that the dude rolls his eyes at.
	But it's not in this one.
	But the sort of speaker or whoever it is rolls his eyes and they do their little hacker dance throughout the parliament and were generally a bit embarrassing, right, to watch.
	And so it's like, right, okay.
	But that's what foreigners do, right?
	That's what foreign peoples do.
	They do stuff that I don't understand.
	They look a bit embarrassing.
	And that's just what they're like, right?
	That's just the way they are.
	When in Rome, as it were, and this is in New Zealand, so okay, whatever.
	I actually wasn't too judgmental about it.
	And I don't have an instinctive dislike for the Maori or anything like that.
	Although a lot of people seem to adopt one because I saw a lot of people going, well, look at the Maori's history.
	Look at this, look at that.
	And I'm like, okay, but that's all we get from our fucking leftists, isn't it?
	Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	300 years ago, something happened.
	So?
	So what?
	You know, 300 years ago, X happened.
	Yeah, okay, brilliant.
	That's actually, I don't feel like making a moral condemnation of the people existing now because of something that happened in the past, unless they're still doing it now, which they might be, actually, I don't know.
	But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and suggest they're not.
	Basically, what I'm saying is the sort of historically negative narratives of people that I saw a lot of people on the right concocting to cast aspersions and look down on the Maori, I think are actually not the right thing to do.
	I think we can look down on whoever we want, but we don't need to frame foreign peoples as entirely bad.
	We don't need to just pour scorn and condescension.
	In fact, maybe this is the old British imperialist in me talking.
	In fact, generally, that doesn't work towards harmony between different groups of people.
	Actually, exacerbates it.
	And I have to admit, it was Americans who I saw doing this.
	Whereas, like I said, from a British perspective, okay, well, look, guys, we had an administered global empire.
	Yeah, they act weird, right?
	This is something, as Americans, you can have to understand.
	The foreigners act weird.
	That's just what they're like.
	Yes, you know, you're better than them in your mind.
	I agree.
	You don't need to feel insecure about it.
	It's totally fine, right?
	And so I understand that this has blown up into a massive protest.
	Now, the farmers' protest today probably had about 20,000 people.
	So actually, it wasn't that big, but it was still pretty damn big.
	Well, apparently, and that's in a country of 69, 75, something like that, million people.
	In New Zealand, they have 40,000 people protesting their parliament against a controversial bill which seeks to reinterpret the country's founding document.
	And we'll get onto that in a minute.
	So just to show you the scale of the depth, the size, the scope of the depth of feeling, right?
	No, no, dashing rogue.
	Dashing rogue, right?
	No.
	Ape men are those who prefer loincloths with the suits and they need a better coat.
	No, we aren't liberals.
	We aren't here to make them like us, right?
	We are as we are.
	We wear the suits.
	They wear the loincloths.
	That's totally fine.
	I'm not asking you to wear a loincloth.
	No one's asking you to wear a loincloth.
	But we aren't here to fix the world.
	We aren't here to make everyone live like us.
	This is what the liberal does.
	And actually, I think the problem with the modern world is liberalism.
	And I think we need to recognize that because that's the formatting, the global homogenization of the universe.
	Like, it is making everything the same.
	No, it's fine.
	These people are strange barbarians, right?
	They live in a weird way.
	That's fine.
	That's theirs.
	This is ours.
	And actually, the distinction between groups is a valuable and necessary thing.
	And it informs actually all of those.
	It resolves all of the issues that we're having with liberalism, which treats people as being interchangeable, universal, fungible things, where it presupposes that we were basically all the same before we entered into a society.
	That's not true.
	People are all different, in fact.
	And these differences aggregate in groups.
	And it makes sense to deal with group differences.
	And this is what 40,000 Maori arrived at their parliament to protest.
	They were actively protesting the liberal view of what a human is.
	Of course, they're not going to articulate it like this.
	But philosophically, this is what this boils down to.
	And I, like I said, I was doing some reading into this.
	I was like, oh, oh, oh, I think the Maori might be based.
	I realize that that's an unusual thing.
	Now, I appreciate that many people on our side, many, many of the sort of Anglos or people of European descent, have been browbeaten a lot by foreign cultures, by liberals, by progressives, by leftists, who are trying to suggest that foreign cultures are superior to our own.
	Now, just as a quick side, I think discussing things like cultural superiority and inferiority is actually not very helpful.
	Now, I'm not saying that it can't be done, but the problem is the metrics that you choose are basically culturally particular to yourself.
	So, it's very rare that someone will say, you know what, my culture sucks.
	Their culture is way better.
	And when you arrive at that position, you tend to look at yourself essentially as a rabid leftist with an out-group preference.
	It's totally normal for everyone to have an in-group preference, regardless of the superiority or inferiority of any group.
	And again, when you get into that kind of discussion, suddenly you're talking about objective metrics, which kind of miss the point of belonging to a group.
	You don't belong to a group because of its objective metrics, because the GDP of one country is higher, one group is higher than another group.
	That's not why you belong to them.
	You belong to them for moral and sentimental reasons that can't be measured, shouldn't be measured, aren't objective, are totally subjective to you.
	And you don't have to give up if a set of numbers is presented to you.
	These things are a part of the core of who you are and what you are.
	And it's wrong to try and get rid of them.
	They're good things that make you a human in the world.
	And again, the appeal to the kind of objective numerical standard just leads us into the universal managerial paradigm where these things can be managed.
	It's like, okay, but I don't want to be managed by some fucking faceless Eurocrat who's going to sit there and weigh up his numbers on a fucking spreadsheet.
	I don't want that.
	That's bad.
	That's evil.
	It's an inhuman way of behaving.
	And so it is actually interesting to see such a large proportion of the Maori community coming out to protest this.
	And it's weird to see people on the right not getting why they're protesting.
	So I thought what we'd do is go through it because I think there is something genuinely interesting and educational here that we can actually speak to.
	So this all begins with the Treaty of Waitangi.
	Now, like I said, my pronunciations are going to be terrible.
	This was, as I say, signed in 1840 on February in Auckland between a coalition of Maori chieftains, not all of them, but most of them, and the Imperial British government, or what would become the British government.
	And as you can see, the treaty is written twice.
	It's in English and it's in Maori.
	This is the one in Maori, which I'm just going to skip over because I don't real Maori.
	Again, dashing rogue, there is no such thing as better, but there is preferable, and it's right that you prefer your own culture as they prefer theirs.
	Again, when you fall into better, you are instantly on the trail to essentially commodifying your own culture, right?
	And you shouldn't be commodifying your culture.
	It belongs to you.
	It is a precious thing.
	It is not for commodification.
	It is something spiritual about yourself.
	You are totally entitled to prefer your culture over every other culture, and there's no reason that you shouldn't.
	And they're entitled to the same thing.
	And that's actually something that we used to respect.
	In the pre-liberal order, we used to understand that, and that is what this treaty is about.
	So, we get to the English translation.
	Sure, sure, I'm not saying they represent all Maori or anything like that.
	They're only like six percent of the vote or something like that, but this treaty is a kind of foundational text for the Maori community in New Zealand as a whole, even if it isn't actually in law.
	It's got the sort of symbolic position of the Magna Carta in England, actually.
	But anyway, but look at the way, look at the framing of this when it was signed in 1840, right?
	So, Her Majesty Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom of Great Britain Island, regarding with her royal favour the native chiefs and tribes of New Zealand, and anxious to protect their just rights and property and secure that to them the enjoyment of peace and good order, has deemed it necessary,
	in consequence of the great number of Her Majesty's subjects who have already settled in New Zealand and the rapid extension of emigration from both Europe and Australia, which is still in progress to constitute an appoint a functionary properly authorized to treat with the Aborigines of New Zealand for the recognition of Her Majesty's sovereign authority over the whole or any part of those islands.
	Right, so you can see what we're dealing with.
	We are not dealing with the relation between the individual and the state.
	That is the core premise of liberalism.
	That the individual's relation to the state is what we discuss.
	And each individual has essentially no real relation to one another, except a negative one, which is we have a set of a suite of rights as individuals, and those rights are negotiated with the state.
	And the state enforces the boundaries between us using these right claims.
	That's not what's happening here.
	What's happening here is we have a sovereign of a people, a great people, in fact, the greatest people at the time.
	And she's dealing through her representatives with tribes, with groups of people.
	So it's not individual rights claims that are being made.
	It's group rights claims.
	Now, group rights claims are something that liberalism simply isn't equipped to deal with.
	It can't deal with them.
	It doesn't really recognize them.
	And eventually, even if temporarily it brings them in to try and equalize minority claims against the majority, which is what we see all the time with identity politics, eventually these will be whittled away until group recognition eventually only becomes individual recognition.
	You're very familiar with woke politics, how it uses group identifiers in order to try and create different hierarchies of privilege.
	That is true, but that's a temporary waystation on the goal, on the journey towards the goal of absolute atomization.
	And that's one way that they break down previous group claims is to split it into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller group claims until it arrives at, and this is what intersectionality is for.
	Again, identifying the myriad tiny core groups.
	So like if I'm a disabled lesbian Latina of color who is a dwarf, right?
	That's a really small constituency.
	We're almost at the atomized individual there.
	There isn't, I mean, there are lots of other things you could, but from a practical political perspective, there's not much else that I need to very to identify a very narrow constituency.
	So breaking away chunks of a group until eventually we are at, theoretically, absolute individual rights.
	So individuals atomized completely from one another with no reliance, no connection to one another, but have a relationship essentially only with the state.
	That's the end goal of liberalism.
	And that's not what is represented here.
	What is represented here is a relationship between the chiefs and tribes of New Zealand, who have signed this treaty, and Her Majesty the Queen of the United Kingdom, and, of course, her peoples.
	So this is very interesting.
	And so it's quite a short treaty.
	Sorry about that.
	So it's quite a short treaty.
	There are three articles.
	The first one just says, well, look, Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of sovereignty which the said Confederation or individual chiefs exercise may be supposed to exercise or possess over their respective territories and the sole sovereigns thereof.
	So basically she's saying, look, I guarantee that you control whatever tribal lands that you have.
	The Article II is that she guarantees the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their lands, estates and forests and fisheries and etc.
	So they'll have their property and that's not going to be messed with unless they sell it to the crown or between the respective proprietors and persons appointed by her majesty to treat with them.
	So interesting.
	And again, calm down about the Maori, right?
	You are not getting what they're doing here, right?
	But trust me, you will by the end of it.
	But yeah, the hacker is super cringe.
	But that's okay.
	Foreign peoples do strange foreign things, right?
	Just got to understand.
	Article III.
	In consideration thereof, Her Majesty the Queen of England extends to the natives her royal protection and imparts them the rights and privileges of British subjects.
	So again, these are not universal human rights.
	There are people with rights and privileges that the British crown is obligated to uphold using her empire, her law, and her military.
	And there are foreigners.
	There are people outside of this dominion of grace.
	So we have group of people, group of people.
	We have an arrangement, a settlement that creates a connection between them, which is this treaty, which defines the terms of their arrangement.
	And the fact that the Maori are protesting in favor of this suggests that it was quite a good settlement for them.
	No, Jim, I'm not using liberal incorrectly.
	You're using incorrectly.
	I can get onto it later.
	But trust me, I know of what I speak.
	I'm using liberal in the philosophical term.
	And from the philosophical perspective, America is the quintessentially liberal nation.
	Whereas Britain kind of is and kind of isn't.
	It's always had a very strange relationship with liberalism.
	But I'll get into that in the time.
	Sorry, I keep coughing.
	Liberalism did come from England.
	So anyway, right.
	As you can see there, what we have is a non-liberal worldview being presented.
	We have a very traditional old world perspective where groups have rights that are particular to that group.
	These are not universal human rights.
	And back then, they would have known themselves to have had the rights of Englishmen.
	Again, a parochial right, rights that belong to the English, based on their tribal heritage, the things that they have inherited from their deep past and from their ancestors that they now possess in the present.
	And this is a great honor, actually, for the Maori to have these rights extended as subjects of the British crown to the Maori.
	Because these are really, these are the rights that people are trying to capture in liberalism.
	But these are parochial and ethnic rights, and they can be extended as a privilege to other peoples and rescinded if necessary.
	So these are diplomatic in many ways.
	And there's also the translation of the Maori text, which is not the same as the English text, interestingly.
	As I understand it, there are lots of debates over the differences, and I don't really want to get over those, because I don't understand them properly.
	But again, this is a lot more simple, and you can see how it's a lot less loyally.
	The chiefs of the Confederation, all the chiefs who have not joined the Confederation, give absolutely to the Queen of England forever the complete governance over their land.
	That's what they agreed to.
	This is the English translation of their treaty.
	That's what they signed up for.
	No, you're going to govern us, and you're going to make sure that we're protected.
	Again, the Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the sub-tribes, and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages, and their treasures.
	So what we have, you're going to make sure we keep.
	And that's a pretty good settlement, actually, because, you know, fairly technologically backwards people turn up, get their asses handed to them by the regulars, and guys with guns, right?
	Modern, technologically advanced people, this is a great settlement for them.
	Okay, yeah, look, we're not going to beat them.
	We can't sail to Britain and defeat them in a war.
	We don't have battleships.
	But what we could do, turns out they're quite reasonable, actually, and decent folk.
	And so we can have a settlement with them.
	Yeah, okay, we give them control of everything, but they're going to protect what we've got because they're obsessed with property rights.
	And we happen to like our property, right?
	And so the third one is, of course, that the concerning the government of the Queen will protect all the ordinary people in New Zealand, give them the same rights and dues of citizenship as the people of England.
	This is a tremendous step up from where they were before, right?
	They didn't have this before the English turned up.
	They didn't have the rights of Englishmen, but we, through the grace of the Empire, bestow this upon them.
	And so you can find explanations of this on the New Zealand website and the government website.
	And it's quite interesting because, like, this is a really great thing that we're extending to them.
	But, sorry, this is a really great thing that we're extending to them.
	And it's something that they are appealing to.
	But as they say, look, this is not part of domestic New Zealand law.
	In the same way, the Magna Carta isn't part of now domestic British law, right?
	This is a, again, almost sort of spiritual thing that we're appealing to.
	It's like the principles of this, why this was being done.
	And what this was, is exclusive.
	This is exclusively between the British and the Maori.
	And we are extending to you the rights of Englishmen in your land in exchange for peaceable governance over it.
	And this is how, again, this is just one of the ways that the British Empire was able to cover a quarter of the globe with something like 130,000 men in their army.
	The Romans didn't manage it.
	The Romans had a much smaller empire with about four times the number of legionaries because we were actually very good at governance.
	And this is how you make it so it's just not worth the time to revolt.
	And so it was this post by the National Conservative that got me thinking about this because, okay, what are they actually protesting against?
	Well, it was in opposition to a bill by the Libertarian Party that declares all races have equal rights in New Zealand.
	Okay.
	Well, think of that from a Maori perspective.
	They're like, look, we are the first people in these islands.
	There was another island that had a sort of splinter group called the Moriori, who the Maori ended up genociding.
	But they weren't on the original New Zealand islands.
	So the Maori do appear to be the first human inhabitants of New Zealand, as far as I'm aware.
	So it is completely fair.
	And they've been there for 700 years.
	So it is completely fair to call them indigenous.
	In the same way that I think the English are indigenous to England, the Maori are indigenous to New Zealand.
	And so think about it from their perspective.
	All races in New Zealand have equal rights.
	No, that was never part of the deal.
	Why are you bringing other people into this?
	We had a deal between the English and the Maori.
	And the deal was, yes, you'll have your settlements, you'll govern the island, but you'll make sure that we get what's ours.
	We will keep our territory.
	We will keep our national identity.
	We'll keep our sovereignty in our own internal affairs.
	And this will be a good and settled arrangement that's lasted for over 150 years.
	Why would we not, why would we want to change that?
	That's obviously something the Maori have been getting along with very well for quite some time.
	I'm sure it's not been perfect, but it's obviously been good enough if they're going to go on a mass protest in favour of it compared to modern progressive liberalism.
	Oh, all races should have equal rights in New Zealand.
	Why?
	Why should these other groups who arrived yesterday have the same rights as the indigenous Maori in New Zealand?
	I mean, you cannot make the same argument for foreigners in Europe.
	Why should someone who's just arrived in Germany or France or England have the same rights and entitlements as the native Germans, French and English?
	Like, it only makes sense through an extreme liberal lens, which I hate to tell people, but libertarianism is one of those lenses that views people only as the atomized individual on their own, not part of a group.
	However, the Maori have a more realistic view of what a human being is, and that is that a human being is a part of a group.
	All human beings are born into groups.
	They're raised in groups, and they are never separate from these groups.
	And when they are separated from these groups, we go to great lengths to get them back.
	If some guy was stranded on an island, we would go and save him.
	We do not actually live as humans in isolation.
	And so the Maori's perspective on this is, no, we, as Maori, have an ethnic privilege based in the treaty that was signed when the British colonized New Zealand that we assented to and you assented to, and now you want to change the terms so other groups get what we got.
	Why the hell would we agree to that?
	And that's a great question.
	Why would they agree to that?
	Why are we agreeing to that?
	Why am I giving up my rights as an Englishman to some Polish guy who gets off the boat or some German guy or some Pakistani or Indian or whoever?
	Why am I giving up my rights and privileges or making them the same as theirs?
	Why are we doing this?
	It doesn't make any sense unless you understand that it's purely liberal ideology that is working here.
	It is not what's best for anyone.
	It is not what's good for you.
	And it's not what's good for the Maori, but it is what's good for the California leftist who wants to sit there and go, well, I mean, all people are all the same and all have equal rights.
	No, no, no.
	You're wrong about everything.
	You're wrong about everything.
	The very nature of rights is entirely contestable, frankly.
	And when you want to delve into your mythology that tells you where you get your rights from, it's very easy to pick that apart.
	Oh, really?
	People exist in the state of nature, did they?
	And they had natural rights, do they?
	Do they?
	It was bollocks when it was first enunciated.
	It's even more bollocks now, since the archaeology has come back and it's proven that it's complete horseshit.
	It never happened.
	It could never happen.
	And yet, all of our modern liberal assumptions on reality are based on this total fiction.
	Whereas the Maori understand themselves to have 700 years ago come across the sea, landed and settled in this place, made it their own, and then a giant invading power came along and they lost a war to them and made an appropriate and righteous settlement with this people, with these people as Maori, with the British.
	And this is totally worth keeping to them.
	And so this is the basics of this bill.
	Most of it is pretty much the same.
	They do still recognize and respect the rights the Maori have.
	However, if those rights differ from the rights of everyone, the subclause one only applies if those rights are agreed in the settlement of the historic treaty claim.
	Okay, fair enough.
	But the next one, everyone is equal before the law.
	Everyone is entitled without discrimination to equal protection and benefit of the law and the enjoyment of the same fundamental human rights.
	Again, the Maori understandably see this as a kind of reduction of their privilege as the first people of New Zealand, which was part of the reason that they gave their assent to British government.
	And so I'm actually completely, I completely understand why they're protesting this.
	Like what they're protesting is the liberal homogenization of the world.
	Yeah, no, I'm against that too.
	I think that people do live in groups, and I think that actually it's fine for them to live as they live, and I'm going to live as we live.
	And we should have an accord.
	We should have a relationship rather than have some bureaucratic manager impose a singular standard on us all that we all have to live by.
	Totally fine.
	And this is something that, again, you can find so many examples of this.
	This mindset, right?
	Because that's what we're talking about here.
	We're talking about a mindset.
	Charles Napier has a great quote.
	When the British had conquered India, the Indians were like, okay, I can't remember the name of the custom.
	The Indians are like, well, you know, the husband's died.
	The wife's going to have to be burnt on a pyre now.
	And Napier has got a great, great quote.
	He's like, oh, be it so.
	This burning of widows is your custom.
	Prepare the funeral pyre.
	But my nation also has a custom.
	When men burn women alive, we hang them and confiscate their property.
	My carpenter's shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all the concerned when the widow is consumed.
	Let us all act according to national customs.
	That is what that is, is saying, no, look, we are the powerful nation.
	We have our customs.
	You have your customs.
	And we will respect your customs and you're going to hang for them because they violate our customs.
	Maybe we can come to an accord on this.
	There was probably a quote about the Maori eating people that some New Zealand Britisher had with them as well, right?
	But you can see, again, it's two different.
	We're not talking about the relationship of the individual to the state.
	What we're talking about, or the individual to law, what we're talking about is how groups of people who are different are recognized and recognize one another's differences and get along.
	And again, this wasn't ancient history.
	This is the 19th century.
	This is 150 years ago.
	This is not something that is beyond the bounds of modern thought.
	These were the people who were inventing the modern world.
	And just to be clear, the Maori are not in favour of mass immigration for this very reason.
	Because why would they be?
	Why would they want loads of foreign people, again, not from Britain, not even from Europe, from countries all around the world to come and infringe on their personal group relationship with the British?
	Why would they want that?
	What do they get out of that?
	How does that benefit them?
	And of course, it doesn't.
	And so there are loads of articles about this where they this is from 2017.
	And the opinion, there's a particular bit in this I want us to read.
	The opinion in general is that, well, yeah, the Maori are against immigration, but like, you know, as I say here, immigration means something really different for Indigenous peoples who have been subject to colonization than it does for the dominant group.
	Okay, that's great.
	So I would say that the English working class as an Indigenous people, the Welsh as an Indigenous people, their experience of immigration actually means something similar to the Maori experience of immigration then.
	We are in a similar position, and I actually understand.
	Maori have experienced demographic swamping.
	Yeah, actually, as an Englishman, so have I. I've just come back from London.
	I actually know exactly what they're talking about.
	That's what colonization was.
	Yeah, I agree.
	If you look at the state of Luton or Birmingham or Leicester or London, we were dominated and disempowered.
	Yep, that's definitely how it feels.
	That's definitely how it feels.
	Now, you can say, well, look at that.
	The door swings both ways.
	Maybe this is what you get for what your ancestors did.
	Maybe that's the case.
	But that's not to say that we have to deal with that.
	We have to put up with that.
	The Maori haven't.
	And actually, maybe this is a good example of why we shouldn't put up with it, actually.
	So for Indigenous peoples generally, the experience of immigration has been different.
	I agree.
	Again, if what we would discover, if what we were dealing with is an experience like the United States or Canada, and even then, I don't know if it's entirely different, but we would agree, right?
	So if you had a giant continent that was essentially mostly empty with scattered native tribes that you were, you know, coming to settlements with or clearing off a land, okay, fair enough, things are different.
	I'm not saying it's good or bad.
	It's just not the same situation.
	But New Zealand is about the same size as Britain.
	It's not a giant place.
	And if you've been there for 700 years and then suddenly a bunch of people are turning up and demographically swamping you, oh, I really, I feel, I feel it, right?
	I totally feel it.
	I feel what that's like because we're going through that right now.
	And so the Maori are actually giving us an example of how one argues against that in an old world perspective rather than from a modern liberal perspective.
	And so this is very interesting, actually.
	And again, why wouldn't they be anti-immigration?
	What benefit does it bring to them to bring in foreign peoples who don't have the same relationship they have with the British, but will compete for a similar relationship, which will diminish the prestige of the Maori in their own homeland?
	Why would we want this?
	And again, we can say something similar because England is probably the last country that's properly occupied by the British Empire.
	England doesn't have a national parliament.
	England doesn't have a kind of national consciousness.
	It seems that the English are just not heard by the remnant imperial apparatus.
	And so as an Englishman, I'm kind of looking with a bit of envy at what the Maori are able to push to the fore here and say, no, we don't want our land swamped with foreigners.
	You were bad enough, but at least we got a decent settlement with you.
	And we were happy with that for 150, 170 years, whatever it is.
	No, no, no, I don't want millions of people from India or China or Africa or wherever coming to my home.
	I don't want that.
	And yeah, no, I think there's something to this.
	And so polls have for years now shown that Maori dislike Asian immigrants more than any other group of New Zealanders.
	Asians are blamed for taking jobs from Maori.
	Again, is this ringing any bells to the working class people of the Western world?
	Just out of interest.
	Anyone who works in tech or tech support, anyone working, I used to work in tech support, you know, and those jobs are gone, aren't they?
	They've been outsourced to India.
	Anyone hearing any of this?
	They're unhappy that they're driving the Maori to Australia.
	That's interesting, isn't it?
	So the Maori are like, no, I'm just going to have to leave.
	Why?
	Why the hell should the Maori feel like they have to leave New Zealand?
	Lacking the migrants lack understanding of the Treaty of Watangi and competing for cultural funding.
	Why the hell should they?
	Why is it that, again, I mean, do I think that a single migrant that arrives in England every single day, if you ask them, assuming they can speak English, what's the Magna Carta, do I think a single one of these would be like, oh, yeah, no, well, that actually was a treaty of the Barons drawn up by the Treaty between the Barons and King John, drawn up at Runnymede in 1215 to enunciate a certain level of rights that the baronage that then parlayed into rights for all Englishmen throughout the centuries.
	I mean, they're not going to know any of that.
	And the Maori have got the same problem with the Treaty of Watangi.
	So, no, no, no, this is a relationship between the Maori and the British state.
	Who the hell are you and why are you here?
	You know?
	So they say the diversity of New Zealand is beginning to undermine the investment we have in biculturalism.
	That's right.
	Multiculturalism is now a bunch of other groups popping up who see the group rights that the Maori have and say, well, why don't we have group rights?
	And all the libertarians can do is say, well, no, you've all got individual rights, which satisfies bloody nobody.
	And so, like I said, they don't like them because of competition for the labor market, competition for cultural resources.
	Why are you introducing a bunch of foreign competitors into our society, say the Maori?
	And that's a reasonable question.
	Why are they doing this?
	And I know that this is a right-wing issue.
	I know there's a very, and I know this makes the Maori full-on far right, just to be clear, because the Guardian are writing articles going, well, hang on a second, Maori.
	New Zealand's migrant boom is good news for us, Maori.
	It empowers us.
	Well, that's clearly not what most of the Maori protesting think, is it?
	I suspect this is a vanishingly small minority of Maori that do think, oh, it's great that we have a bunch of foreigners here to compete for the resources and jobs that we were getting.
	What a brilliant thing to happen.
	No, obviously this is a bad thing, but at least they admit that it's happening now.
	There's always a Guardian article, right?
	There's always a Guardian article.
	They're like, yeah, this bad thing that we were denying that was happening until now, well, it is happening and it's a good thing.
	If you want to know what the good thing for you is, just look at whatever the Guardian's taking on it is and just go for the opposite.
	Just go for the polar opposite.
	That's the thing that's in your interest.
	Anyway, so various Maori doctors are saying things like, look, immigration has been used to strategically disempower the Maori.
	Again, apply that to Europe.
	Has immigration been used to strategically disempower German people, French people, Italians, Spanish people, British people?
	It's been used to disempower Americans, Canadians, Australians.
	Yes.
	Yes, that's what the global order is doing.
	The global liberal order is bringing in people to disempower the native group that have a group sense of consciousness by applying a set of quote-unquote individual rights to people who customarily never had them.
	This is, it's, again, completely clear as crystal to these people, and they're not wrong.
	And so the Maori were like, well, hang on a second.
	Why are we standing for this?
	And this Maori party, again, this doesn't represent all Maori or anything like this.
	They've only got like six seats in the parliament or something like that.
	But that's not nothing.
	But this Maori party have had to apologise for essentially their far-right rhetoric.
	And as you can see, they got completely cuckolded by the left on this.
	So they say, I can't pronounce this, but the party leaves no one behind.
	We do not stand for xenophobia and racism in any form.
	Okay, what's the treaty based on?
	The treaty is based on the group dynamics between the Maori and the British.
	Ultimately, a liberal will say that's racism.
	We wholeheartedly apologise to our migrant and refugee Wahanu for allowing harmful narratives on our website.
	Thank you for holding us to account.
	Should not take him this long.
	Oh man, that's actually sad to see, isn't it?
	This native indigenous group is standing up themselves saying, no, we matter as the people that we are, a people.
	And they had to take this off their website, which of course you can look up through the Wayback Machine.
	But basically, the argument that they were making is they were saying, well, hang on, we get, again, they call it Indigenous first.
	Indigenous first.
	Britain first, France first, Germany first, America first.
	Well, Maori first for the Maori, obviously.
	Israel first for the Israelis, obviously.
	But not if you're a liberal.
	Not if you're a left-winger.
	Not if you're a globalist who believes that fundamentally all people are basically the same.
	And they had to bend the knee on that one.
	Well, I don't agree.
	I think they should have stood up for it, actually.
	And of course, they're getting the full-on immigration experience that the rest of us are getting.
	Obviously, the global order needs just manpower, bodies, labor, and it doesn't care where it gets it from.
	It doesn't care if it ruins the prospects of the Maori.
	Like they don't care if they ruin the prospects of the English working class.
	They don't care.
	They don't see you as a group with a history temporally situated on a continuum that has itself dignity and value, sentimental worth.
	They don't see any of that.
	What they see are numbers on spreadsheets and they just want to move one block to another.
	And it doesn't matter to them what they destroy.
	It doesn't matter that we are currently watching England being murdered by this globo-homo policy, this policy of mass immigration.
	It doesn't matter that the culture of these places is being destroyed.
	And I don't hold any resentment against the Maori.
	I don't want their culture to be obliterated.
	Just like I don't want our culture to be obliterated.
	Or the culture of Israel or Gaza or Palestine, whatever it is, or anywhere.
	I don't want to see cultures obliterated by the muck world that intends on formatting the entire human race into one universal, interchangeable type.
	I think that's a negative future.
	I don't think that's good.
	I mean, imagine how boring tourism is going to be when every country is basically the same.
	It's going to be atrocious.
	And there's a, just to end, this is, well, not quite to end, but there's a blog post here from, again, from a few years ago.
	I don't know who this person is, Michael Reddell.
	But you can tell that he wants to be a progressive, but has to admit that, as he gives some quotes from reports, many Maori are concerned about immigration, seeing it as a threat to their unique position of the first people to settle New Zealand.
	They're less favourable towards immigration.
	They're more likely to want immigration reduced.
	They're also less likely to think immigration is good for the economy.
	They're more likely to see immigration as a threat.
	And this finding is, of course, controls for age, religion, marriage, states, homeownership, blah, blah, blah.
	So this is clearly a concern for New Zealand.
	We're Maori and the Treaty of Watangi occupy a special cultural and constitutional role in society and national identity.
	Again, as an Englishman, I'm very sympathetic to this.
	Why doesn't the Magna Carta occupy a special cultural and constitutional role in our society?
	Why aren't we advancing this in the same way that the Maori are?
	And remember, during the COVID lockdowns, there were about half a dozen people who were essentially arrested and had their businesses confiscated.
	Because they were yelling, no, the Magna Carta means I get to open my business.
	And you don't get to tell me to shut it just because you're afraid of something.
	Like there were people standing on that box.
	And for some reason, the British, the English in particular, were just like, well, you know, I mean, the government's telling me to stay at home.
	I'm just going to stay at home.
	It's like, no, I actually agree with that.
	I think that that's the inheritance that we have.
	And we should be proud of it and we should stand on it.
	It's good.
	It's a decent thing.
	Like, so anyway, so this, um, this all comes down to understanding liberalism as an abstract ideology separate from a political tradition.
	And we had a massive debate about this on Lotus Eaters, which I've linked in the description.
	If you would like to understand this in more depth, do go and watch that because this will help explain the actual, the ideological building blocks that liberalism begins with and moves forward into and why when it interfaces with the community, it acts just like a universal acid.
	It dissolves things.
	It gets rid of particular cultures.
	Parochial, decent traditions all die under the acid of liberalism.
	Like I said, I realize there are a lot of people who just don't understand when I say liberalism in the philosophical sense.
	I'm not just talking about leftists, right?
	I'm talking about our conservatives.
	I'm talking about the rhinos.
	And in some ways, the MAGA types are in some ways classically liberal, but there's a lot to be said there, especially as liberalism is the tradition of America.
	So I don't want to go into a whole thing on it.
	But Americans, don't worry.
	I'm not essentially not talking about you.
	But I'm talking to you.
	And I'm talking to a lot of other people who I think on some fundamental level do understand what I'm saying here.
	And hopefully will be receptive to it.
	I don't think the Maori are the villains here, even if they are cringe.
	But of course they're cringe.
	Look, they're foreigners.
	They do foreign, strange, foreign things.
	When I go to France, I'm like, God, the French are cringe.
	When I go to Germany, I think, God, the Germans are cringe.
	Of course, when we see the Maori doing their thing, we're like, God, they're cringe too.
	Let me get the super chats up and I'll go through those.
	I realize this is a bit of a left field thing as well.
	Like, this is a bit of the, where the hell does this come from?
	But like I said, I was going through it and it's just like it's not as simple as it looks.
	And a lot of people are essentially framing the Maori as like I saw this, I saw this thing here, right?
	Your universe has no meaning to them.
	They'll try not to understand.
	They'll be tired.
	They'll be cold.
	They'll fight with your beautiful door.
	To most of the newcomers, to most of the foreign peoples, this quote from Camp of the Saints would be correct, right?
	So to the foreigners who have actually arrived on boats or arrived on the planes, who don't give a damn about our cultural heritage, our cultural history, that would make sense.
	However, in this case, that doesn't make sense because the Maori are specifically appealing to our cultural history and heritage because they themselves aren't immigrants.
	They are saying, no, we want what Queen Victoria promised us, which is the rights of Englishmen in our homeland.
	They actually do understand that our universe has meaning.
	It has provided them with security for 150 years.
	And they're objecting to you trying to take it away.
	Now, I'm not trying to call out this guy.
	I like this guy.
	Pretty much all the people I'm contradicting here are people on Twitter that I like, right?
	So I hope I don't want to come across as condescending or aggressive or anything like that.
	I'm not trying to certain drama.
	But I think that we're looking at this wrong because we thought, oh, because a lot of people think, oh, these are just immigrants.
	No, they're not immigrants.
	Actually, they're appealing to an imperial way of life rather than a social contract way of life.
	And I think actually it'd be better to live in an imperial manner rather than a social contract manner because actually things worked quite well until we became social contract liberals.
	And actually, I think we should abandon being social contract liberals and go back to understanding that different groups are different.
	And we can have relationships between the groups that work well for the groups themselves.
	And when we try and break those relationships, the groups will come out and protest in mass numbers and say, no, you're not breaking this.
	We're having this.
	And we're going to keep it.
	And I think that's great, actually.
	I think there's something really useful and something to it.
	But anyway, let me have a quick drink and I'll go through your comments.
	Thank you for the pound, Agnes.
	Revenge Society says, Would you ever leave England in the UK?
	Looks pretty grim over there.
	No, no, like with the Maori.
	I don't.
	This is where my ancestors are from.
	My ancestors are from Wessex.
	Apart from the Welsh ones, so from Wales, but I don't live in Wales.
	My English ancestry is from Wessex, and I'd like to stay here.
	Thank you.
	Things are pretty grim at the moment, right?
	Things are genuinely quite grim.
	I am genuinely worried that the law will just come for me because I've said something non-liberal on the internet.
	But I don't think I should be forced to adopt a philosophy if I don't agree with it.
	And I don't agree.
	And it was after going and getting a degree in philosophy and one of the main things, basically a degree in philosophy is a study of the liberal canon.
	After realizing that the liberal canon's bollocks, and I don't think it's correct in any way, I'm going to stick to my guns on this.
	I think there are other ways of conceiving of ourselves.
	And being a part of a situated people is a perfectly normal, natural, rational way of doing it.
	And this is what the Maori are arguing for as well.
	And so I find myself not in disagreement with them, actually.
	But G-Man, yeah, where's my tie?
	Yeah, I did wear the tie to the farmers protest today, right?
	It was insanely cold.
	You can't really see because I'm wearing a big coat.
	And my daughter slobbered on me when I got home because she's still got a reddy nose.
	So I had to change.
	But I'm wearing my nice Islander t-shirt.
	So almost as good.
	Almost as good.
	Your boy Fargoth says, be careful here.
	Many leftists oppose lib globalization like the Zapatistas.
	They're not our friends.
	That's true, but the Maori aren't communists.
	The Maori, again, at least these protesters, they're appealing to imperialism.
	So these aren't what I would call leftists.
	In fact, I think that by the standards of Western discourse, especially judging on what their opinion on immigration is, the Maori are far right.
	I think that's what the left would argue is that the Maori are really far right, actually.
	And we need to think about that.
	We need to engage with that because we need allies, frankly.
	And these people seem to agree with us basically on all the premises of what they're arguing for.
	They're all our premises as well.
	So let's not alienate them unnecessarily.
	Even if, again, we look at them and go, oh, there's foreign people doing foreign things.
	That's weird.
	Yeah, we don't have to do those things.
	We don't have to even like or respect those things.
	But I don't know if we need to attack them.
	Pirate Skeleton says, this is what happens when the special needs children get angry and have to share their toys.
	No, you don't understand their culture.
	And that's totally fine.
	You're not obligated to.
	You don't have to.
	You don't have to respect it.
	But this is very much the same.
	Again, like there, I've read so many books on England from foreigners now who essentially say the same thing about us for various different reasons.
	And I've come to understand that it's just people from different groups, different cultures just don't really understand each other.
	Just not, at least not until they spent a long time in each other's presence, right?
	They just don't really understand each other.
	But remember, when she's doing her little thing here, right?
	You know what?
	Everyone around, like the white European guy who's rolling his eyes, you know what they're not doing?
	It's cowering in fear, right?
	No one's exploding.
	No one's getting stabbed.
	You might find it cringe, fine.
	Of course, find it cringe.
	But it's understood what they're doing because there's a relationship existing there.
	It's not Lindsay Hoyle in the parliament ashen-faced and saying, look, I just don't want any more of you to die.
	It's not that.
	So this is not something we need to be contemptuous of, even if on a personal level, it's like, oh, that's cringe.
	So honestly, I don't think we need to go down that road.
	Little AOTR, which I think that's what they call New Zealand, isn't it?
	Says, I'm mixed Maori and British ancestry and I agree that the treaty principles need to be addressed.
	The way that we're established in the 70s is bullshit.
	I don't like the non-local lens being used.
	Well, like I said, I'm not an expert on this, and I don't know what the dispensation in the 70s was.
	So you have to forgive me on that one.
	Feel free to leave me a comment to let me know what you think and what they are or where I can go to read more.
	Because like I said, I don't really know that much about it.
	But I spent the last couple of days just reading about the treaties and reading various articles.
	And this is what I found.
	And what I found is people who are objecting to the liberal order.
	That's what they're arguing against here, as far as I can tell.
	Kosher Squid says, the fate of the Maori would be the fate of the native Britons if they let the Liberal win.
	Well, the Maori are the ones who are actually agreeing that that would be the case if they don't get out and make a change.
	And 40,000 of them out on the street.
	I mean, that's almost as big as the United Kingdom rally, which again is basically the same thing, right?
	It's basically the same thing.
	It's just we, of course, express it in a culturally different way, naturally.
	But again, the imperialist in me is just like, yeah, well, that's fine.
	I mean, that's just the way they are, right?
	Torgo says, look at you, 900,000 subscribers.
	Good on you.
	Well, I did have more back in the day, but YouTube whacked my channel.
	But I managed to get it working again, which is nice.
	Janet says, the Maori party don't represent all Maori.
	There are racial supremacists who don't want apartheid.
	The extreme left, well, in a way, in a way.
	But I agree, you know, I know they don't represent all Maori or anything like that, but to get so many people on that to sort of leverage that, you can see there's something that's going in their direction.
	I understand they're increasing their proportional vote share every time.
	And what they're arguing for isn't liberal.
	So I think it's an interesting thing, even if they don't represent all Maori.
	It's an interesting thing to identify what the far right of the Maori are arguing for.
	Because I think, you know, we should think about these things.
	No, Jesus Fried Christ, the Maori belong in New Zealand.
	That's where they belong.
	That's their homeland.
	They've got a particular kind of philosophy that is, I can't remember the name of it now, but I was reading about this about a year ago.
	I was doing my dissertation, actually.
	Because what it is, is a philosophy and a locale.
	And so it's a philosophy that's particular to New Zealand itself and the Maori and their time and the continuum of having been there.
	I can't remember the name of it, but again, it's interesting.
	It's not for me because I'm an Englishman, but like, it's for them.
	Not a band account says, free the Maori.
	New Zealand cannot keep them in change.
	Well, I'm, again, I'm for the far right of the Maori rising up and enforcing this.
	Pirate Skeleton says, I see the point you're getting at.
	As cringe as it looks to outsiders, it'd be nice if the Brits also stood up for their own national identity.
	Well, that's honestly, that's what the United Kingdom rallies are about.
	It's about arguing for our national identity as a tribal people that can incorporate and have relationships with other peoples, right?
	Because, I mean, at the United Kingdom rallies, there are people complaining, well, look, what are these Sikhs doing there?
	What are these Africans doing there?
	It's like, they're people who respect us as the people that we used to be.
	In the way the Maori are appealing.
	Hey, why aren't you being the British imperialists who are guaranteeing our relationship?
	Well, that's what those people are there for as well.
	Like, they want a relationship with the English.
	And they support who we are.
	And they want us to do well in our own homeland.
	And the thing is, if I went to any other country and I got politically engaged, that's exactly my position.
	I'd be like, yeah, damn right Greece for the Greeks.
	You know, damn right Italy for the Italians.
	Damn right fucking Somalia for the Somalis.
	If I were going there, obviously I'm not.
	I'm in England.
	But it's a totally normal thing, I think.
	And I think it's completely correct.
	Punkle says, hey, Sagan, just wanted to express my long appreciation for your content.
	Well, thank you very much.
	Followed you since early mid-2016.
	You're a huge impact in my self-exploration and political exploration.
	I came to a very similar conclusion in politics, some earlier, some later.
	I like to describe it as decentralized traditionalism.
	It has been comforting and greatly enjoyable to experience it with you.
	Bless.
	Thank you.
	And that's really good.
	On Twitter, I call myself a postmodern traditionalist.
	The postmodern bit really pertaining to simply, this isn't everyone's narrative, this is our narrative.
	This is my narrative, our shared collective narrative as the English, and then moving outwards as the British, and then as Europeans, and then as citizens of the world.
	Genuinely sort of like Berkey and concentric circles.
	And I think that is correct.
	I really think that is the correct way of looking at the world.
	And that's what these Maori are arguing for.
	That's what they are saying.
	They're saying, no, look, this is who we are.
	And this works outwards.
	And I think that they aren't as left-wing maybe as it might appear.
	I think a lot of these native groups just get kind of sucked into the left wing because the left are like, oh, minority group.
	We can wield you against the majority group as a weapon.
	So we'll gib, gib, gib, gib, gib, gib, gib.
	And don't just hate Whitey.
	Just hate Whitey.
	And we'll bring all the Browns together.
	And then the Maori are like, well, hang on a second.
	We have a specific treaty that doesn't say anything about those people.
	And rightfully so, right?
	Rightfully.
	So I don't know if they're as left-wing as you think.
	I think they were just arguing their own parochial ethnic interests.
	So something to think about.
	Thank you, Weighted Normal.
	No comment.
	Charlie says, say what we want about the Maori and New Zealand as a whole.
	They've produced some of the finest rugby players the world's ever seen.
	I don't follow rugby.
	I don't watch sports.
	I like doing sports, but I don't watch sports.
	So, Dashing Rogue, what am I talking about?
	Using culture as such a loose term.
	Might be as a leftist based on how fast and loose you are in the terms.
	I'm not using culture as a loose term at all.
	Culture is the character of the activities of a particular group of people, right?
	So the culture of the Maori have is kind of weird and cringe to us.
	But then maybe from their perspective, the culture we have of sitting around and working hard and things like this is cringe to them, right?
	So I'm being quite specific about those.
	Semtiu Ibisis says, anti-globo homo is borderless and inclusive.
	No, no, that's what global homogenization is.
	A borderless, 100% inclusive world where there is no particular rooted culture that excludes other people from its culture.
	Whereas the Maori, at least they are doing that.
	And so, in a way, they're a persistent point of resistance to this sort of global homo culture.
	But don't worry, Jim.
	Like I said, go and watch the debate, in fact, linked in the bottom if you want to understand more about how I'm using the term liberal.
	Because I am using it in the philosophical sense rather than the colloquial, vulgar political sense, right?
	YouTube bias says, if you talk about South Korea feminists, again, remember, women get parking spaces, period, leave, and not forced by law to join the army for a year like men.
	I didn't know that.
	Again, I only briefly touched on the South Korea feminists, but I could tell there's a massive rabbit hole here.
	Like, oh my God.
	Like, I did wonder why South Korean men were so radicalized towards the right.
	And if you just look at just again, just it's like a feminist dictatorship has taken over.
	And it's like, okay, well, why wouldn't I become a radical right-winger compared to that?
	Like, it's genuinely a kind of mental thing, isn't it?
	Brazier says, as someone who lived in New Zealand, I'm envious how strongly Maori support their native culture.
	I wish that for my fellow Englishmen.
	Yeah, again, this is why Clarkson's Farm is such an interesting thing.
	Because Jeremy Clarkson's like, no, I'm going to have everything in my restaurant or my pub made in Britain.
	Like, that's a level of nativism we just don't see anywhere else.
	I can't remember what he couldn't get made.
	There's one thing that he lamented that he couldn't get.
	Lemons or something.
	I can't remember what it was.
	I don't know if lemons grow in Britain, actually.
	They might, I don't know.
	But there was one thing that he couldn't get grown in Britain, and he lamented the fact that something in the pub couldn't be grown on the farm or in Britain.
	And that's there's nothing wrong with that.
	It's totally normal to have a preference for one's own culture.
	It's just, again, I shouldn't have to say that, but that's where we are.
	The guns thinger says, America isn't supposed to have liberalism.
	Our paradigm was Jeffersonianism or Hamiltonianism.
	The current left-right paradigm is an insert.
	Well, it's a much longer discussion.
	Because, I mean, Jeffersonianism and Hamiltonianism, I imagine, depending on how you're defining those, I suppose, they're going to look a lot like classical Lockean liberalism.
	But the thing is, the problem with liberalism as an ideology is that it's something that can be detached from a particular time and place.
	Whereas liberalism, the practice, is the tradition of the United States as an English-speaking country, as an English country, in the same way as the practice of the English.
	So we are slightly hamstrung by the fact that we have trouble resisting the things that the good things that liberalism promises because we do want those things.
	We want those things in a situated tradition rather than abstractly defined and given to us by bureaucrats, basically.
	Weighted normal says, it's not good to have two classes of citizens.
	Well, the thing is, it seems to be a bit of a fiction that we can only have one class of citizen.
	It seems that there's no good example anywhere of there being a country that has only one class of citizen.
	And so essentially what we're doing is lying to ourselves.
	Whereas the Maori are being quite honest and saying, well, we are one class and you are the other class.
	Oh God, there's another blake flying here.
	Where do these keep coming from?
	And why do they want to hang around me?
	We are one class, you're another class, and we can have a settlement between us.
	That is something that works.
	That is something that makes sense.
	That is something that isn't a lie, right?
	Whereas to say, well, I mean, we want a single class of citizenship for everyone, A, that's exactly what liberalism is offering.
	That is the liberal dream.
	Even if it's part of our political traditions.
	But also, it just doesn't seem to be true.
	I just don't see anywhere where that's been manifested.
	So I think we need to think about that more.
	You know what I mean?
	Harry says, foreigners did not invade and butcher the natives of Europe like the Anglers did to the people of the Maori, unless you consider falafel a weapon of mass destruction and also a nice Iranian beard.
	I don't think my beard's Iranian.
	I'm not Iranian.
	But, well, I mean, we didn't massacre them.
	You know, we didn't exterminate them or anything.
	We defeated them in wars and we conquered them.
	And also, I'm not entirely sure that you can say that foreigners did not invade and butcher the natives of Europe like the Anglers did to the Maori.
	I don't know, man.
	I don't know.
	I think there's various arguments on both sides to be made there, aren't there?
	The professional novice says, this ignores the reality of the ground of the gradual encroachment of implicit favoritism of the Maori by the state and law over all other Kiwis.
	Well, that's because the Anglo-British stock of the Kiwis are atomized individuals now.
	And so, yeah, they can't have advocacy groups of their own.
	So the only advocacy group is the Maori.
	And if you've got a bunch of leftists, subverters, who are like, yeah, I want to destroy the hegemonic power of the dominant native majority or the dominant Anglo-majority, then yeah, you're going to see them having all of this encroachment and favoritism.
	But it's because essentially, liberalism's broken the treaty.
	Like, that's the problem.
	And we need to have a conversation about it.
	Weighted normal says your entire argument is the definition of racism.
	Well, that's interesting because there are many definitions of racism.
	But if belonging to a group is what racism essentially and eventually dissolves down into, then a liberal will probably make that argument, yeah.
	But then you've got to ask yourself, okay, what's the opposite of racism?
	What's not racism?
	And the answer will be pretending that people don't come from groups.
	Pretending that people are just isolated individuals wandering in the wilderness who, for some reason, chose to form a state and therefore.
	And so essentially, if that's the only choice, to be part of a group or to be not part of a group, to be racist or to be not racist, no one is not racist and they're all lying to themselves, essentially, is what we come down to.
	So again, these are concepts that we really need to, A, hammer out proper definitions for.
	Because, I mean, I don't think that anyone on the left would argue that that is racism.
	They would argue that prejudice is racism, plus power is racism.
	And I don't think I'm suggesting prejudice or hatred or, you know, I'm not suggesting there should be ill feelings between groups of people or anything like that.
	And in fact, I think that a proper settlement with different groups prevents resentment from building up.
	It shows respect to those groups.
	So I'm not sure they would argue that is racism.
	But again, it depends what you define racism as and where you go with racism.
	Bloodbased says the Japanese should give their land back to the native Ainu.
	Long conversation I'm not going to get into.
	Ramdingle for five New Zealand dollars.
	I'm getting a lot of New Zealand dollars from this one.
	I should have expected it.
	I didn't really think about it.
	It says very true.
	The protest slogan was something foreign, which translates to honor the treaty.
	Again, this is actually a very right-wing perspective.
	This is something that actually, if we think about it, it confirms us as a group of people with a group identity.
	Because that's the thing that liberalism is trying to take away, our group identities.
	And actually, I think our group identities are good and valuable and important and put us in the place that we belong.
	And so when they say honor the treaty, what they're saying is be the thing you were supposed to be.
	And actually, I feel like kind of being the thing I'm supposed to be, actually.
	I actually think that's a good thing.
	I do think there's some noble that there's something noble and honorable and uplifting about being the thing that we ought to be rather than degenerating into merely an individual kuma who's constantly gooning on the bloody internet.
	I mean, like, Christ on a bike, I'd rather some kind of responsibility to live up to.
	And if that means looking back through the past of what Englishmen of the past have done and saying, yeah, no, I need to start accomplishing things in the way they did.
	Okay, I accept it.
	I think that's a good deal, actually.
	It actually gives me and my sons something to look up to.
	And I think that's way better than the alternative.
	Can you imagine being someone like Destiny?
	You know, be a man.
	You know, goddamn it, man.
	Just like, because destiny is what is produced when you strip away all of these group identifiers and the nobility that belongs to them and they bestow upon you when you achieve them or aspire to them.
	That's what you end up with is someone like Destiny.
	Raymond says, not to get off topic, how was the farmers protest?
	It was really good.
	We'll cover it on the podcast tomorrow, so I'll talk about it tomorrow.
	But it's very good, by the way.
	It was very nice.
	Although cold and wet.
	I can't believe it's fucking snowing.
	Ramdingle says, yeah, the Maori have always been anti-immigration.
	Mass immigration means more competition.
	They've never had a say on our immigration policy, which floods our country with new arrivals.
	Yeah, and this has been a complaint that they've had for many years.
	And rightly so.
	Again, I'm totally sympathetic to the Maori when they're like, you know what, I don't want mass immigration.
	And again, it's not very left-wing, is it?
	Matthew says, how colonies work about integration into English?
	Well, this is it.
	You have treaties.
	I mean, we did the same sort of thing with Uganda, which is interesting.
	And like various other areas.
	Like, we had lots of settlements in India and stuff like this.
	Like, this is just how the British Empire worked.
	It wasn't an empire of equality, right?
	The British were in charge.
	They ran things, and they ran things well so that all of the people, the subjects of the crown, were actually quite happy with the settlements they had.
	And in this case, they're arguing for the settlement.
	Like, listen, imperialists, get back to work.
	Get back to what you were 150 years ago, or else.
	It's like, or else what?
	What are you going to threaten us with?
	They're basically demanding reform the empire, damn it.
	And it's like, okay, I'm listening.
	I'm up for it.
	Cog Bjorn says, hey, Sargon, if you go back to 2014, 2015, what would you tell yourself?
	Bit of years since GameGate, always nice to meet a veteran.
	Glad to finally send support after these years.
	Well, thank you so much for the $50, man.
	I really appreciate that.
	Sorry, give me a second because I think my chat's crashed, which is very annoying.
	So I like seeing the chat.
	Oh, God, the chat has crashed.
	There we go.
	What would I tell myself?
	I mean, there are so many things, man.
	Like, okay, why is my chat doing this?
	Give me a second.
	God, if it better not crash.
	Okay, what would I sorry, chat?
	I can't see you now because for some reason my browser is having a moment.
	I don't know why my browser is having a moment.
	It won't even refresh.
	God.
	okay so what would i tell myself um invest in bitcoin One of the things I never did was invest in Bitcoin, which is very disappointing in retrospect, isn't it?
	God, I wish I had.
	But on a personal level, I guess, like every man, I was nervous about getting married.
	But my married life has been very good.
	I'm very happy.
	So don't be worried about being married.
	You'll be very happy.
	Don't be worried about having kids.
	You'll be very happy with kids, even though sometimes they're stressful.
	It's not perfect, blah, blah, blah.
	I just want to caveat that because there are lots of people like, oh, well, having kids is difficult.
	Yeah, yeah, everything in the world's difficult.
	Okay, anything good worth having is difficult.
	But there's so many good things that come out of it.
	Like, I got back from the protest today, and my two, well, the three older ones were all at school.
	And so it's just me, my wife, and my two-year-old.
	And it was just such a wonderful little afternoon.
	You know, I was, you know, just playing with her, just throwing her around and tickling her.
	And she's having a great time.
	She's like, oh, Daddy, she doesn't speak properly, but she's like, eh, shoving something in my face that she wants me to play with her.
	It's just like, this is, you don't understand until you're living it just how great this is.
	So don't worry about it.
	Don't sweat it.
	You'll be fine.
	Don't make jokes about Jess Phillips.
	Just don't.
	I probably wouldn't do that if I had the foresight that I would have.
	No, don't bother.
	It's not, you know, like, it's not the world's biggest deal.
	It's just not really worth the effort.
	You know, it's just a lot of hassle came from it.
	And definitely don't make the joke twice, which is what got me demonetized.
	I just don't.
	Don't do that.
	I wouldn't say don't run for office again.
	That was fine.
	I was totally fine with that.
	That was entertaining and enjoyable.
	Just don't make the joke.
	Because you're going to get in trouble.
	Basically.
	Get the education sooner.
	I didn't start my degree in philosophy until I think it was 2018.
	2019.
	2019, I think it was.
	I wish I'd done it sooner.
	I just wish I'd become better educated earlier in my career.
	Because, like, yeah, my old stuff makes me cringe, obviously.
	But that's about it.
	I guess there are personality conflicts that I could warn myself about, but I think it's probably important to go through those and experience those.
	Yeah, again, you know, you can't not do them and grow as a person.
	And it's, you know, these are the things that just put my mind at ease, I think.
	Generica says, the marriage at least have a sense of themselves as a people.
	The English and the British diaspora in the colonies do not.
	Precisely the point.
	Exactly the problem, in fact, that we're having is that we don't see ourselves.
	Right, I finally managed to get the live chat working.
	I think.
	I think.
	Right, okay, kind of.
	It's not working now.
	I don't know what's going on in the browser.
	All right, there we go.
	Oh, Russian, have I not made you a mod?
	Okay, if I can get the browser working, I don't know what's going on with it.
	It shouldn't be a problem.
	Like, if I can get the browser working, I'm trying to make you a mod.
	I can put you on timeout.
	I don't know if that's going to work.
	I've either hidden you on the channel or added you as a moderator.
	So if I've hidden you, I'm really sorry, Russian.
	Nearly there.
	Again, I don't know why my browser is acting in such a bizarre way.
	It's just really laggy for some reason.
	I think I've done it though.
	Right, yes.
	The Eli Vlongford says, hello, any advice to an Irishman with non-political misses disturbed by the comeback kid in the US?
	She only has access to the Kool-Aid.
	Yeah, I think my advice would be basically I would point out that the media's a bit deranged when it comes to Trump.
	I would, you know, try and be a bit nonchalant.
	Be like, yeah, I'm not really sure they're reporting all of this fairly.
	And I mean, just point down, you know, how good were things back in 2018, 2019?
	Like, economically, world stability.
	And what's interesting is that Trump governs in the same way that the sort of imperial monarch governs.
	Like, Trump was like, no, I'm going to have personal relationships with Kim Jong-un, with Vladimir Putin, with all of these people.
	And they're going to know their place in the hierarchy.
	And this is why, as soon as Trump came back, like I talked about in the other screen, as soon as Trump, right, I'm back at the top of the hierarchy.
	Everyone's like, fall into line and go, oh, yeah, no, I know exactly what I'm supposed to be.
	And when the hierarchy is broken, then people don't, and they start acting out.
	And it's the same in a household, it's the same at a national level.
	And this is what the Maori are arguing for.
	They're like, no, you belong at the top of that hierarchy.
	So fucking sort it out and make sure these people don't get what's ours.
	And again, I don't think it's an unreasonable request.
	Courtney says, easy one for you to relate to, Carl.
	Farage tables a bill to end two-tier policing, half of Birmingham, then marches to London, protest to retain it.
	Yeah, that's basically it.
	But I wouldn't say that the Maori have been keeping the New Zealanders under their thumb, which I think is fair.
	Sorry, let me refresh this quickly.
	I say quickly, but man, for some reason, nothing's quick.
	Yeah, no, I appreciate, Marshall, that the protesters don't represent most Maori or anything like that.
	But if we look at the thing that the Maori protesters are protesting for, they basically come across as far right, which I think is interesting.
	And I understand that on most things, they're going to seem leftist, right?
	I can't read that way to normal.
	But I honestly think that's because the right has just not been able to understand what's being argued for and have a narrative in place that is more appealing than the left-wing narrative, right?
	And I think it's this kind of conversation that we need to have to be able to make them left-leftist.
	Because I don't think they're in natural leftist.
	They're doing is they're viewing leftism as the philosophy of, well, we're going to get our privileges.
	You're not going to give us our privileges because you're, you're the, you know the right.
	The liberal libertarians are going to be like yeah, we're going to give everyone exactly the same rights, as is Anglo-tradition.
	It's like yeah, kind of, but also they're not expecting that right.
	And the right could that, the traditional right, the imperial right, could have an answer for that.
	That is more appealing than leftism, and so it's.
	It's what we need to figure out is how to engage with people like that.
	Um, convincing reality says none of this is unexpected.
	It's emblematic of the demonization of peoples who assert their inherent right to belong to a place and for that place to belong to them in primacy.
	Yeah, I think there's a there's a real.
	There's a real question of this in the face of multiculturalism, mass immigration.
	I mean, the ancient Athenian perspective on this was just that only Athenians were able to vote and hold office in Athens.
	Foreigners could live there, but they were called Metics, and so they're just politically disenfranchised.
	So you know, you couldn't hold office and you couldn't vote.
	You could work, you could earn money, you could own property, but you couldn't engage in the political process as an Athenian, because the polity was for Athenians and not foreigners which, if you think about, is that unreasonable.
	Like, if I move to another country, do I expect to be entitled to engage in their political process?
	No, I think it'd be weird.
	And if they were like well, obviously you can't run for office because you're not, you know, Indian or something, i'd be like okay yeah fair, fair enough, i'm in India or wherever I am.
	Um, that that makes sense.
	Like it actually doesn't make sense that foreigners can come over and just suddenly be like yes, i'm going to run for for president or prime minister or whatever, and get elected.
	Why?
	Why would that be allowed?
	I mean, in America, you have to at least be born in American, and America is the quintessential liberal country and they still have this.
	Yeah, but you don't want people who aren't born here becoming the president right, just fyi.
	Um Mark says, in between the Maori and the mass immigrants are the European European Spians dependents, who've been there for centuries.
	Where do their rights fit?
	Well, the Europeans were the ones enforcing the rights, right?
	So ultimately uh, sovereign is he who makes the, who decides the exception?
	Uh, as Carl Schmidt put it, so the Europeans are the sovereigns, as the treaty says, and they just guarantee the rights of the Maori again, as the treaty says.
	So when you're the guys in charge, that's not really a question that you need to ask.
	Uh Makes Sonic Great.
	Again says, we're five years and one percent of America still wears face napkins.
	Uh, do they, do they?
	I never see any masks around here, which is good.
	um matthew says you're wrong on the situation now we want additional rights over the english slash the crown the all people is already accepted by the crown it isn't about that okay well i'm i'm happy to concede that i might be Wrong.
	Like I said, I'm reading remote news reports, but as the as laid out in the treaty, it doesn't seem.
	I mean, obviously, they're arguing for their own parochial ethnic privileges, right?
	I'm not suggesting they're arguing for equal rights or anything like that.
	I appreciate they are asking for more rights than other people, but that shouldn't be off the table, right?
	We should be able to actually think about that because that was what was essentially promised to them in the Imperial Treaty before the liberalization of the British Empire.
	And we should be able to think about that.
	We should be able to discuss that.
	So, again, I'm not arguing that they're for equal rights or for, you know, they are arguing for privileges because they're an Indigenous people to New Zealand.
	And I think there's something to that, actually.
	And in the era of mass immigration, maybe we should be listening to that.
	I mean, like, they've got a point, don't they?
	Maybe they have a point.
	Mr. Twisted Frenzy says, My Islander magazine finally came today when I got home from work.
	It was worth the wait.
	Well, I'm so glad you appreciate it.
	I'm really sorry about the delay.
	There was just an issue with the bloody delivery company.
	And so I don't know what it was.
	Basically, we managed to get it finally sorted.
	I think it was their end, though.
	It wasn't our end.
	So, again, many apologies, but I'm really glad you got it.
	I'm really glad you're happy with it.
	Dan Lopez, what's the biggest change of opinion that I've had?
	Oh, it's definitely from being a liberal to not being a liberal.
	Definitely.
	I just liberalism doesn't work.
	And what it does, what it does do to work, is basically evil.
	It's the destroyer of nations, and I don't like it.
	I like being what I am.
	Way to normal.
	I appreciate that they're partnered with the far left New Zealand.
	Of course, they are.
	But look at the situation in Britain, right?
	The Islamists and the radical communists are partnered together in the Green Party, right?
	That doesn't make the Islamists left-wing.
	What that makes them is convenient patsies.
	Well, essentially, like, it's an alliance of convenience, right?
	The Islamists are not going to start being like, yeah, so now that we've the Green Liberalist Alliance, Islamist Alliance has taken over and conquered Britain.
	Now we're going to start putting in gendered, you know, all-gender bathrooms.
	They're not going to do that, right?
	They're doing it as political, out of political convenience because the Greens see them as like a precious little minority group, the communists, that they can wield against the majority, but they're out for their own.
	And that's fine.
	We can deal with people who are out for their own.
	And there's no reason that we should be seeding these allies when we could offer something similar that we used to offer and give them the thing that they're looking for in order for us to be the thing that we used to be.
	I know it's a again, it sounds strange, but I'm pretty sure there's a way here.
	I'm pretty sure there's a way forward.
	And like I said, Lydia, I know they're allied with the left.
	Again, these always are.
	Because the left caught them.
	And the right could, in a traditional manner, do the same.
	Threadnought.
	Yeah, I know.
	Well, I don't use Twitch that much because I got my pondering channel remonetized.
	And it just pays better than Twitch.
	And I'm more familiar with YouTube.
	And I like being able to do videos for it as well as live streams.
	The narrative about the Maori, I don't think is completely true.
	I think the Moriori are...
	Sorry, Sinecue says the Maori are immigrants to use in just like everyone else.
	They came and literally ate the people here before the Maori.
	I think that's a bit extreme, but the Moriori were only on one particular island.
	They weren't on the main island, as I understand it, making the Maori the first people of New Zealand.
	But even if that were the case, it was 700 years ago.
	And the Maori of now are not the Maori of 700 years ago.
	You know, all cultures change over time.
	And the Maori themselves have developed a culture that is particular to New Zealand.
	It's not like not the same as the other Polynesians, although, of course, there's historic similarities.
	So I don't think we should try and discredit them like that, because essentially that's how the left discredit us.
	They'll say, well, no, the Anglo-Saxons come from Denmark and Northern Germany and Frisia.
	It's like, okay, maybe they did, but the English come from England.
	The Skyrim is for the Nords, kind of is the argument.
	Yeah.
	Sick Pixel says, just thought that you should know, Australia has mandatory attendance for its elections, not mandatory voting.
	You have a right not to vote, but you have to participate.
	Okay, that's a good point.
	Fine distinction.
	Yeah, I'm sure you can spoil your ballot or whatever you do.
	But I'm not against this, actually.
	I'm not against mandatory participation, then, should we say?
	Because, I mean, after all, if you're a citizen, you pay taxes, maybe you should be voting.
	Anyway, I'm just thinking about it, right?
	Sorry, it says, the Christianization of the Maori gave them the understanding that so that they knew the same sovereignty of the crown requested was the same word for the use of the summit of God.
	Retrospective reanalysis for a two-tier society.
	And Jan says, the Maori tried to find their ancestral culture like the Native Americans do, just like the rest of us lost people in search of meaning.
	Well, this is the problem with the globalization of the world.
	Like, this, it's, it genuinely sets us adrift, and it's a real problem.
	And I think this is the defining question of our time.
	It's not just identity, although identity is a key issue of it.
	It's identity and situation, you know, situatedness that I think is important.
	And none of it's liberal.
	Like, the liberals have no idea what you're talking about.
	You're not a thing.
	You're not a situated thing.
	You don't belong to anywhere.
	You're a free radical who's just roving around and colliding with stuff.
	And I think that's a terrible psyche, psychic perspective to have on yourself.
	The West has stopped apologizing.
	Absolutely.
	And in a way, that's on of the treaty is them saying stop apologizing.
	But again, it really seems that way.
	I'm going to have to head off in a minute because I've got to go to work tomorrow.
	But most of the comments that are left seem to just be basically what I've already said.
	So I don't want to just keep going over the same things.
	But I appreciate people sending things in.
	Do you plan to do an interview or a live stream with What If Alt Hist or John Doyle?
	yeah i like both um roger and john they're both the the there are some uh young lads zoomers who have clearly got they're clearly very sharp and are not effeminate mexicans And they're a couple of good lads.
	So I would love to do an interview or live stream with them at some point.
	But anyway, right, I'm going to have to end it here, folks.
	So again, if you think I'm totally wrong, I might be, right?
	I might totally be wrong.
	And I'm happy to go.
	Yep, fair enough.
	There was more to it than I understood.
	And like I said, I didn't say that I understood everything or anything like that.
	But I think that there is something to what I've identified here, right?
	I think there is something to what I've identified here.
	I'm probably skipping over a lot of nuances because I'm not an expert on domestic New Zealand politics.
	But from what I've seen and what I've researched and what I've read about the treaties and stuff like that, it definitely seems that they're appealing to something out of the old world that has been destroyed by the new.
	So like I said, leave me a comment and explain to me what I don't understand.
	But again, I wouldn't bet that they are actually as left-wing as you think.
	I would suggest that they have been browbeaten into it by very advanced leftist memetic weaponry.
	But actually, maybe they could become more based with a bit of right-wing memetic weaponry, right?
	Anyway, so I look forward to reading the comments on this one.
	This is going to be fascinating.
	Thank you for joining me, folks.
	I hope this was interesting and informative in a way.
	But again, I'm here to learn as much as anyone else, right?
	So I think it's important to have the discussion, though, because reconceptualizing us as a people, I think, is something that has to happen.
	And that means reconceptualizing our relationships to not only our land, not only the government, but also other peoples around us.
	Because I think a lot of the people we brought in to live with us conceptualize themselves as peoples in the old world sense of the term, like the Maori are doing with the treaty.
	So I think it's really worth us having a think about that as well.
	Anyway, thanks for joining us, folks.
	I'll see you on the podcast The Load Seaters tomorrow, where I will be talking about the farmer protests.
	And they were good, Germany, by the way.
	They were good stuff.
	And I'll see you then.

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