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Aug. 7, 2019 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
01:06:09
The World's Strongest Woman ｜ Zuby Interview
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Time Text
Hey folks, I'm having a chat with musician, podcast host, and women's deadlift champion Zuby.
Zubi, how you doing, man?
I'm good, man.
How are you?
Very well.
So you have become controversial for your opinions on things like feminism.
Okay.
What do you make of feminism?
We're jumping straight in.
We're jumping straight here.
Oh, boy.
Oh, gosh.
I guess it's one of those ones where the first thing you have to say is, what do you mean by feminism?
Because it's one of those terms that has a lot of different meanings to different people.
If you're talking about the original incarnation of it, as far as I know, which is we believe that women should have equal rights to men, should be able to pursue education and careers and be paid the same and everything like that.
Inherit property, all that.
On board 100 million percent.
I think everybody yeah I, I think everybody should have those rights, regardless of anything.
If you're talking about some of the aspects of the more modern day incarnations where there's a lot of demonization of men and essentially misandry, where there's a lot of just ranting and raving about the non-existent problems and just kind of problematizing everything and shrieking at the sky and just yeah, just being annoying basically, and And I'm not on board with that at all.
I think it's destructive.
I don't like the way that it's pitting this battle between men and women.
I don't like any form of identity politics.
So when anything starts leaning into that, I kind of throw up a red flag and say, wait, that's not a good thing.
I don't want women generally feeling animosity towards men.
And then you've kind of got this reactionary side on some parts of the men's red pill community or the men's rights community where it kind of becomes this reactionary sort of reverse feminism thing where you've got all these men who have this animosity in general as a group towards women.
And that's just not healthy for a society and for relationships or anything like that.
So I'm very critical to some of the aspects of it in that regard.
So I wouldn't, I do not call myself a feminist, although I guess if you were to go back several decades, then technically I would be one, just as probably everyone in the UK essentially.
So it seems that you're making the distinction between sort of more liberal sort of second wave feminism and intersectional feminism.
Because something I've noticed in just following feminism for a while is that the intersectional philosophy just steamrolled the entire movement.
And now the old sort of Jermaine Greer types, the old, you know, the man-hating types, feminists, they're completely sidelined.
They're a non-entity in the feminist movement now.
They're kind of despised in many ways.
And I find it really creepy that there's been a complete dislocation of the idea of a gender role and the biological essence that usually is taken to underpin it.
And this brings us into the wax her balls, you bigots.
Oh, gosh.
I know we're going straight to the hype stuff, but what do you make of this?
i think it's amazing that it's even a debate and a conversation with a lot of this stuff it just amazes i don't at this stage i don't want to say it shocks me because i know that anything is possible and yeah you know the current the current times we're living in yeah But it's like something out of the onion.
Is the onion still going?
Because it's getting a run from its money by some legitimate.
Where do they even go from here?
I completely agree.
I mean, how tenable do you think this is?
This has got to find a place where it stops eventually, doesn't it?
Well, it does because in a way, it's kind of good.
Because Feminism and some of these level of like crazy levels of trans activism, they're not compatible.
They directly cancel each other out.
can't be saying that there are distinct differences between men and women and therefore we need to support women in this regard or you know do dismantle this or do that or do that and then also be saying oh well either men and women are you've got people literally in the same the same person saying men and women are different but they're the same yeah and And there's no such thing as a man or a woman, and you can switch between them.
And you can be a man with a, and there's no difference between a male brain and a female brain, but a man can be born with a female brain.
All of these things cannot be true at once.
So it'll be interesting to sort of see how it all plays out and who wins, which of these ideologies kind of beats the other.
I don't know.
Yeah, I know.
Well, I totally agree.
And I'm very glad you point out these contradictions because I think they are stark and they're glaring.
They're just really glaring.
To the point where even The Guardian, the most left-wing paper in the country, put out an article, I think it was yesterday, where they were saying how the trans activists themselves are going too far, which I thought was quite shocking because The Guardian is normally completely on board with the intersectional agenda.
So as far as they can take it, and even they are saying, well, okay, maybe all of these cases aren't actually, you know, as we've diagnosed them.
But then we find ourselves in a real sort of quagmire where it's like, okay, what is real?
How do we reconcile any of these things?
And you've got voracious activists on either side who, honestly, I just feel kind of sorry for them because they look like they're trapped in some kind of prison where they're trapped in a certain set of axioms where it's like, no, this has to be true or else I'm not really a woman and everything I've been saying until this point is wrong and I look ridiculous.
And so it's kind of this fiction that everyone has to keep up, you know?
Remember his new clothes kind of thing.
Yeah.
I think the thing is as well with this goes for activists in any regard is that activists do not generally represent the population or the people that they claim to.
So you get a lot of people who just claim they're representing, okay, this person's claiming they're representing the trans community.
I don't think the trans community even exists because everybody's just an individual.
So when people say the trans community, someone like me is like, what do you even mean?
I don't even think there's a black community.
When people say the black community, I'm like, what does that even mean?
You might have a black community in like a high school or in some smaller place, but just generally, there's probably a billion plus black people around the world who don't have some connection to each other.
No, that's really interesting because I like the way that you make this distinction because I always view communities as being local.
So it's a thing you, you know, like a community in Richmond, from where we're recording this.
You know, there's a community in Richmond and you can move to it, become a part of it by virtue of location and think online community.
So you go to a particular message board or something.
But when they say that the black community, what they're essentially saying is every black person, aren't they?
By virtue of them being black.
That's normally what they, yeah, that's normally how it's understood.
But that doesn't.
But it's not real.
No, it's not real.
Is there a white community?
I don't think so.
I hope not.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
So there's a lot of, I posted something about this on Twitter just the other day that I don't, there's a lot of terminology that I don't use because to me, they're sort of linguistic tools and weapons to buy into certain frames and to accept certain axioms, which I don't personally accept.
So I don't use the term cis.
I will never use it, like CIS.
I won't use that term.
For anyone who doesn't know what cis means, it means that your gender aligns with the biological sex that you have.
So you're a male man rather than being a female man, which is apparently something we can do.
Yeah, so I don't use terms like that.
I don't use the term people of colour.
I detest it.
It's humanizing, isn't it?
Yeah, and it just means non-white.
I had a semi-viral tweet about this yesterday.
I said there's no need for this term unless either you're a Klan member or you're a radical leftist.
Like, why do you need a specific word that means everybody who's not white?
Yeah, as if you're all on the same team or something.
No, why?
I can't think of any situation where I need that.
It was interesting reading the replies because people were like, oh, well, what term do you suggest instead?
And I was like, you don't need one.
People.
It's not a group.
There's no...
Yeah.
Like, why is there this binary split?
Because you're still just, you're saying sort of, it almost implies white is kind of like the default.
Yeah, and why white?
Why not non-Chinese?
Yeah, what do you call people who aren't black?
Is there a word for that?
No.
What do you call people who aren't Asian?
Like, there's no...
We're exploring new frontiers and insects.
We're not going to make one, no.
Yeah, so a lot of these terms, I just don't use, I won't use any of these ridiculous fourth-wave feminism terms like mansplaining, man-spreading, man, toxic masculinity, any of those things.
I might use them ironically as a joke once in a while, but no, I'm just, I refuse to use that term.
You can't use it seriously, can you?
No, because then I'm buying into this person's frame and this person's, and it's like, no, I don't agree with the very basics of this thing.
And by using those terms, I'm now playing that person's game.
So this is not normally something I would point out, but because of the subject we're talking about, it seems relevant.
You're black.
I hate to break this to you, but that means you're oppressed by the white man.
And you're in a majority white country, so you're in real trouble.
You're in imminent danger, as far as the leftists have informed me.
But the reason I bring it up is because they are racial politicians.
They actually believe that racism is politicized and that people actually work in these ways.
How have you found the reaction to your resistance to identity politics?
Because, I mean, like you say, you've got this excellent understanding of it's the framing and the language they use that get you into this method of thought.
And so rejecting that out of hand, I mean, you must be treated like a heretic by a lot of them, right?
Well, not by anyone whose opinion I care about, to be honest.
Right?
I always joke that I can't get cancelled because I don't hang out with and associate with the type of people who cancel people, right?
You know, maybe if I did some horrible crime, which I'd never do or something.
Well, yeah.
But just based on my opinions or whatever.
Yeah.
But I mean, when you know, when you're online.
When you've got like a viral tweet that's going around, you must get a lot of leftists coming at you quite hard.
What sort of stuff do they say?
A lot of racial, a lot of racism.
Can you say that?
Both from black people and white people.
Can you give me any examples?
Oh, boy.
Uncle Tom, Kuhn, tap dancing for the white man, caping for white people, black, white supremacists.
I've been called a white supremacist.
I've been called a Nazi.
I've been called a far-right enabler.
I've been called some pretty foul stuff.
Are you sure we should have had an infeud with this guy?
He sounds terrible.
Yeah, like some, you know, I don't even like repeating.
I'm not someone who even swears.
Yeah, no, I don't even like repeating the things.
Or, you know, I've been called an N-word multiple times.
And it's, and it's, it's sad because people are locked into this matrix and they can't escape.
I've had people tell me that I'm not black, that I'm, that I'm no, that I'm not black anymore because I don't play along with some of this stuff.
And, you know, and it's, it's amazing to me.
I mean, yesterday, to give you an example, this one wasn't targeted at me, but it came into my replies.
And there was a white guy who tweeted that Kanye West is a disgrace to black music and black culture.
Oh, wow.
Okay, this is coming from like a white Spanish guy.
An amazingly wealthy husband and father, incredibly successful, world famous.
He's a disappointment to black people.
Yeah.
And this is coming from white.
And this is coming from a white guy.
Wow.
Right.
And then I called him out on it.
I was like, dude, who are you?
I'm like, what gives you the audacity?
Yeah, yeah, but like, I mean, to have, like, I don't play identity politics whatsoever, but the fact that like this white leftist guy can come out here and say Kanye West is a disgrace to black people.
And you're just like, bro, how can you, what's wrong with you?
Yeah.
So you get that kind of stuff.
So I get both from, you know, I get a lot of hate from leftists of any shade, to be honest with you.
Like, there's a lot of, especially black Americans, quite a lot of black.
I've got some who are like super, super supportive, like hardcore supportive.
But, you know, quite a lot of the, I think because the racial stuff there is more.
Are these like the Candace Owen types, the sort of fans of hers?
That support me.
Yeah, that support you.
Some of them are.
There's some crossover, but just people who, you know, are thinking.
Yeah.
Really?
People who aren't just locked into this monolithic thing, you know, and it's, I think in the UK, that's a bit less of an issue.
But I do have a large, most of my followers are in the States.
Right.
And so it's weird seeing some of the stuff, some of it is extremely racist and hateful.
That's the thing.
That's the thing that's weird.
These are people saying, they'll be going on all day about how Trump is racist and, you know, da da da, I'm anti-racism and Black Lives Matter and all this.
And then they'll find, you know, and not just myself, any black person who steps out of line in some of those things, those people become extremely, like, they've got a lot of hate in their heart.
Like, they've really got a lot of hate in their heart, some of them.
Yeah, I mean, for me, I'm not black, obviously, but like, whenever I see people accusing people of being race traitors, like Uncle Tom, you know, the white nationalists say that about me.
So I kind of know how it feels.
He's going to use the same rhetoric.
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, look, I don't see us as being two races that are at war.
And so, and that's how they feel.
must see it you know it's like oh and it's like god what an unhealthy way to view the world it's this It's the same thing.
You see it on the on the far.
I always say the far right and the far left, they're the same thing.
They're just batting for different teams.
Yeah, the way they do it is slightly different.
Yeah.
But it's the same thing.
There absolutely is like, you know, amongst some of these left-wing identitarians who get really into the intersectionality.
Like, to me, a lot of it is still another form of, it's like another form of white supremacy to some regard, right?
You're saying, oh, we're so privileged and we're so that we need to, you know, we need to.
I'm just like.
I'm characterizing all non-white people as if they're underneath white people as well.
Like we need a word for the people who are inferior to the white people.
It's like, I don't think that.
No, like my brain doesn't.
Yeah.
I wasn't raised that way.
I didn't grow up that way.
So, and it's sad because even as recent as six or seven years ago, this wasn't really a thing.
It accelerated quite quickly.
So if I think back to my childhood, my teenage years, my early 20s, I don't remember ever hearing about white privilege or male fragility or toxic masculinity or lots of these ideas that are now being mainstreamed and you're hearing politicians using them and stuff like that.
And to me, it's all just division.
It's divisive.
It creates animosity.
You're claiming you're trying to counter racism and counter sexism and all that, but you don't do that by obsessing over what skin color people have.
You don't do that by obsessing over people's gender and people's sexuality and all that.
It's like, look, I thought we moved beyond that.
Like, I'm the one who's, I don't consider myself a liberal, but I'm like, I'm the one who's actually being liberal here.
You know, you're, I'm not, I don't care.
Like, I'm not talking to you as.
It's not a judgment of someone's character, fundamentally.
That's what I would have always thought about these things.
Like, I don't know anything particular about you just because of your gender or skin colour.
I mean, you know, there are certain things maybe about the gender because there are specific social signifiers about that, but being black or being white aren't inherently communicatory.
Your skin is an organ.
It doesn't determine your thoughts and your beliefs.
Yeah, exactly.
So, and I find it the sort of subtle racism I experience the most, and I think is generally the most common nowadays, is actually this assumption that you know what people sort of believe or think based on their skin color.
That's the thing I get a lot.
So sometimes someone will almost try to win me over by saying certain things, right?
Whether that's hating on Trump or whether that's saying something like being pro-affirmative action or saying, yeah, it would be good if we got more people of color and this and that.
And I'm very opposed to affirmative action.
I don't hate Trump at all.
I would vote for him if I were American.
And I say that openly largely because I think his opponents are just awful.
It's not because I think he's perfect at all.
It's just that I'm like, they're just a mess.
See, I would love to support Tulsi Gabbard, but she's in the wrong party.
I think the Democrats are disgusting.
They've just gone off.
I can't stand them.
And I say that all the time.
And that's relatively new.
I mean, you know, I would have been an Obama voter in 2008, realistically.
2012, I don't know, maybe.
But then it's like after 2012, it's just, they've just got, they're just, they're just going nuts.
They are.
And Trump has just broken them.
They've all got TDS.
They can't.
No, really, that's the Trump derangement syndrome.
Anyone doesn't know?
The whole campaign has just been hate Trump, hate Trump, orange man, bad, orange, right?
There's no, it's like, what are you actually going to do for people?
Reparations.
That's something you're going to do.
Okay, we're going to give reparations.
We're going to cancel college debt.
We're going to give everyone a grand amount of people.
Open the borders.
We're going to care for illegal immigrants.
Maths.
Yeah, I know this is, yeah, this sounds nice.
Yeah, this sounds good.
But with whose money are you going to do all this?
Yours.
Welcome to the moral side, but you get to pay for everything.
You can't do all these things, though.
You've already got trillions and trillions.
I don't know.
It's awful.
It's ridiculous.
It's totally untenable.
And I can't believe the, I mean like, during one of the debates when they start speaking Spanish on the stage, I'm just like, what are you doing?
Yeah, what are you doing?
It's like one of them did it, and then they're like, oh, I speak French.
I speak Spanish too.
What do you know?
Raise up L-Virtue Signal.
Alienating everybody.
It's very strange.
It's like they're trying to pander to one, two percent at the expense of the other 98.
And this whole thing of just calling.
It's another thing I tweeted out.
It's like I said in 2016, their strategy was to call 50% of the population racist, and it didn't work.
So their new strategy is to call 80% of the population racist.
That's literally what they're doing.
It's like they're starting to target each other.
Right now, they're not calling Joe Biden racist.
Pelosi's a racist.
And I'm just, in a way, I'm kind of like, oh, you know, they say don't interrupt your enemies when they're making business.
In a way, I'm kind of like, thank you, carry on.
But it's just like...
What I love most about it, though, is that Donald Trump is just stoking this on Twitter.
I love it.
It's like he just knows how to puppeteer these people.
He really, really does.
It's amazing.
And they don't.
It's amazing when they play into it every time.
Yeah, they can't help themselves.
It's like a rag to a bull.
It's like, I don't care.
Literally.
It would be like doing that high, you know, that high five joke when you gave your hand away?
like doing it like a hundred times and the other person still hasn't realized you're going to move your hand away and they just keep it's like he'll just tweet something and it's like he'll he'll go distract him over there He'll be like signing policy with this hand while they're there worrying about the tweet.
And they just, it's amazing.
There's a media firestorm over like Ilhan Omar going home or something and he doesn't care.
And his supporters don't care and the public don't care.
So it's like what people don't care.
And yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
Looking forward to another four more years of Trump though, to be honest.
Yeah, it was needed.
I agree.
It was needed.
Like, I think it just tore a hole in the fabric of reality.
And it's shifted a lot of people's perspectives.
So many people, that 2016 was just an awakening.
Yeah.
And it just made them think, especially the people who were blindsided by it.
I was thinking 50-50.
50-50.
I remember early on.
I remember in 2015, I remember having conversations with family members.
They all thought I was kind of crazy when I was saying that.
I think before he won the Republican nomination, I was saying he's got a good chance of winning.
Really?
Because I follow a lot of people online and I follow, like I was following Mike Cernovich, who obviously was very prominent in that thing.
And I was telling people who are not stupid, people who are not just ignorant racist or whatever.
And I was seeing the pro-Trump arguments and support and stuff like that.
And I'd seen all this rise of identity politics and some of this stuff that was going on that maybe there was sort of mainstream crowd, nine to five, not really on YouTube and Twitter and all that.
It's not really affecting them yet.
But I was kind of seeing all that stuff bubbling.
And I was like, yeah, this guy might be the person who might just need to kind of just break, just batter, just the battering round to just break this whole thing down.
See, I didn't think it was its time yet.
I was wrong on both Trump and Brexit.
I didn't think they were going to happen.
I thought they were going to be very close, but I didn't think it'd be enough to just tip over the edge.
And I'm glad that I was wrong, frankly.
I'm glad I didn't put money on it, honestly.
If I'd put money, at the time I considered it, I think it was like 101 to 1 or something.
Yeah, yeah, because before he won the nomination because yeah, I was just thinking he's gone and then once he'd won it I was like, okay 50 50.
Yeah Media was saying 99-1.
I was like, nah, 50-50.
It's going to come down to it.
Yeah.
So I wasn't blindsided by it at all.
But the people who were, there's been two reactions.
Because it's kind of like, if you've got a worldview, then people always want to see things kind of conformable to what they are.
People want things to conform to their worldview.
Now you've got to fit Donald Trump into these.
Yeah, so it's like people had this worldview, the Democrats, lots of the liberals leftists in America, they had this worldview that, okay, America is a certain way, people are a certain way, Donald Trump is a certain thing and whatever.
So therefore, based on my worldview, it's impossible for him to win because they locked themselves into this little bubble and didn't associate with people outside of it and really know what's going on.
So in their worldview, the only way that it was...
So they decided that he was racist.
Yeah.
They decided this literally when he ran for president, not before.
Which is, I don't know, people have weird memories.
And so based on that, and they said, well, anyone who votes for him is racist.
So the only way that they could rationalize his victory was either he cheated, the whole Russian collusion thing.
Or everyone's a racist.
Or everyone's a racist, right?
And so, Or maybe I got something wrong in my worldview.
Those are the three things.
Now, that would be the rational thing to do.
Yes.
Say, I've made a miscalculation here because it doesn't appear that the country's massively racist.
I've clearly, but that's taken off the table, isn't it?
But what they've gotten is, oh, the country's even more racist than I previously thought.
Oh, gosh, even the black people are white super racists.
Even the Latinos are white supremacists.
That's what they've done.
How can you call a black person in a MAGA hat a white super?
Like, think of what you're saying.
Right?
It's like, think of what you're actually saying.
Do you know how ridiculous and offensive that actually is?
I mean, maybe white supremacy is diverse and inclusive.
They've been doing that.
They've definitely been doing their diversity push.
They certainly have.
People go on Twitter and people literally say this, oh, Asians.
You know, there was a woman even in the UK who, because it's happening now with Boris Johnson's cabinet, right?
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, well, I was going to go on to that.
Yeah, let's talk about Britain Trump.
Oh, God, yeah.
So, yeah, how do you feel about Boris Johnson?
Because for anyone who's not too familiar with British politics, Boris Johnson has been a popular public figure for quite some time.
He was the mayor of London twice.
He was a journalist for this, and he's an old Etonian.
So he comes from the sort of upper crust of British society.
But he's always had this kind of bumbling, sort of self-effacing personality that's always been quite charming to people.
And now he's our prime minister.
And what's your opinion on that?
I knew he was going to be.
Yeah?
Yeah.
That was obvious.
I thought it was obvious when, I don't know, they started with 12 or 15 people.
I said, just give it to Boris.
He's obviously going to win.
I don't actually know a lot about his views in politics, to be honest with you.
Right, okay.
No, I know who he is.
he's he's he's quite you know economically liberal and socially liberal actually he's he's not um i mean when dominic rob said i'm not a feminist he was one of the ones that came out and said no i am a feminist but okay without specifying he meant sort of like liberal second wave feminism But yeah, so he's quite liberal on a lot of things, and he's not some sort of hard-right radical.
It certainly does strike me as that.
Well, exactly.
I mean, did you watch his speeches, the sort of like first two or three speeches he gave?
You know the weirdest thing?
I don't follow politics a lot.
Really?
No.
I'm very interested in it at like a high level.
But if someone, if it gets into the nitty gritty of it, I don't really, there's a lot of stuff I don't know.
Yeah, well, what was interesting about his initial speeches, they were quite in, they were quite high-level.
They were quite conceptual, you know, because he was essentially talking about Britain as a country that stopped winning, you know, the managed decline of the last 20 years.
And he said, no, we can actually turn this around and be positive and go forward.
And it was rather uplifting, actually, in many ways.
And I think that the left just were not prepared for this.
And so you could see him just in parliament calling out Labour, the entire Labour bench, as being a bunch of sort of like nagging, whining.
They're very negative people.
They are.
Very negative people.
And he called it out, and it was really refreshing.
It was a real breath of fresh air.
It's a big reason why I don't like Corbyn, because he's just so negative.
Yeah, what does he say?
Every time I see or hear something from him, it's just negativity.
It's demonized.
It's Orange Man bad, or it's Boris Manbad, or it's Tories are horrible.
I don't know.
I just don't get any.
I feel like the side who's having more fun tends to win.
Yeah.
And the Labour type seem to hate the world they're in.
Yeah, yeah.
I want to hang out with the people who are having fun and the people who can make jokes and the people who don't have to speech police each other 24-7.
And right now, that party's happening more on the right side of the spectrum, to be honest.
It's like, okay, cool.
I can just talk and have this conversation.
And I'm not, oh, gosh, if I say the wrong word or if I don't phrase this thing correctly or whatever, I'm going to get chastised.
I saw lots of your interviews recently when you were doing, running for an MEP, right?
Yeah, that was great.
And it was just, it got tiresome, even from my perspective.
And they're just, you know, oh, six years ago, you tweeted this.
So it's just like they're constantly trying to, it's like, look, just like, you can ask the question, but get over it.
And once someone has acknowledged something or apologized for something, you can move on.
It's this whole thing of going back to stuff people said in 2010.
Well, this is what I hate about the Andrew Neil Ben Shapiro interview, where Ben Shapiro stormed off.
Everyone's like, oh, there we go, Ben.
You know, you lost.
But he's like, you bring up tweets from 2012.
That's inappropriate.
They both look bad.
Yeah, I thought so too.
They both thought that.
I don't think, I mean, considering he was there to talk about his book.
Yeah.
It's like it didn't even get a mention.
I didn't even know that until you mentioned it.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like now I'm thinking, wait, that was the purpose of the interview.
And so obviously Ben didn't do his research and he acknowledged that.
He dealt with that well.
He immediately put that out there.
Look, I messed up.
I didn't do it right.
I broke my own rules.
Yeah, fair enough, man.
Take it on the chin.
I respect Ben Shapiro a lot.
And then, yeah, it just, yeah, neither side.
Well, I found it interesting that the leftists were suddenly cheering Andrew Neal.
Because normally they hate him.
Normally they're like, oh, he's an evil conservative.
It's like now he's beaten Ben Shapiro.
He's great.
Where do you see everything going?
I mean, do you think we're actually going to get Brexit?
Oh, gosh.
Don't they kind of have to?
Well, I would think so.
It's October, end of October deadline.
And it can't be extended again.
Well, I mean, they probably could if they wanted to, but I don't think that they're going to try.
Yeah.
So, I mean, like, all Boris has to do is just wait out the clock, really, at this point.
Yeah, if that's the situation, then I guess they kind of have to.
I don't know what's going to...
I'm just bored of it.
Yeah, honestly.
I'm very much just like, look, just do something, like, just make this thing happen and make this go away.
Get on with it.
Yeah, this might be a controversial opinion, but I think that the UK would be okay either way.
I don't think that...
Such a radical opinion.
Seriously, but people are so emotionally invested.
Look, there's the fear-mongering on both sides, right?
The Brexiteers are saying, look, if we stay in the EU, all this terrible stuff is, you know, I think if we stay in the EU, it's just going to business issue of usual.
It's going to continue carrying on.
If the UK leaves the EU, I believe in Britain.
I believe that Britain is a good country, great people, very strong.
Punches way above its weight, considering how tight it is.
I can see why you don't vote Labour, I'll tell you that.
There's still like positivistic outlets.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think it might be a little turbulent for a while, realistically.
There might be some economic hit in the short term, like just being honest.
But in the long term, I don't think that the UK is going to end up in squalid hearing, oh, there's going to be breadlines.
Yeah, there's going to be the price of apples is going to triple and nobody will be able to go on holiday and we won't be able to import cheese.
I don't think so.
I think they'll work out some deal with France so that they can get cheese.
Yeah, I just don't feel they believe it either.
Like these sort of doom-mongering scenarios, I think that this is all for them kind of a performance piece.
And I think they're aware of that as well.
So when they're doom and glooming, I think it's essentially a virtue signal to other people on Twitter so they can all go, oh yeah, yeah, we think that's going to happen.
I mean, we're meant to be in World War III right now, man.
We're three years into Trump's presidency.
I remember, you know, and nobody's moved to Canada either.
I'm waiting.
Go, go to Canada.
Notice how they're moving.
Notice how they want to go to the whiter country rather than the browner country.
No one's about fleeing to Mexico.
Oh, God.
That's really racist, isn't it?
When you think about it.
Oh, God.
Honestly, the fear-mongering.
The thing with me is, I think one thing that seems to separate me from a lot of people is I have a long memory.
Oh, right, yeah.
You know, so I remember stuff that happened in the past, and I kind of used that to think about what's going on in the future.
So there have been so many things that people fear monger around.
Like to crazy, whether you're talking about the world blowing up in the year 2000 or you're talking about acid rain.
Remember, I do, I do.
Remember acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer that was going to kill us all by 2010.
I remember all this stuff.
My father was telling me how in the 70s the fear wasn't global warming, it was global cooling.
And that we'd be a ball of ice floating around in South Africa.
Global cooling, global warming, hole in the ozone layer, climate change.
Climate change is all encompassing because then no matter what happens, they've got it covered.
And yeah, of course, the climate changes.
We know that.
What are the exact causes of it and how much each factor contributes?
I don't know.
I am not the expert.
But people fear monger about a lot of things.
Literally in 2016, when Trump became the president, they said there's going to be a civil war, war is going to break out with North Korea.
He's got his finger on the nuclear button.
He's got, you know, this is going to happen.
That's going to happen.
He's going to deport all the Muslims.
He's going to, you know, and you've got people still trying to use crazy rhetoric talking about there's concentration camps on the border and there's this.
And you're just like, stop.
Stop.
And a lot of the stuff, it's also the fact that, you know, I remember Obama's presidency.
I remember the previous presidencies.
And a lot of the stuff you're now complaining about also happened under Obama, right?
Trump didn't start this.
They'll post up photos of conditions at the border from 2012 under Obama's.
And it's like, that's from 2012 or 2014.
And it's the same.
And you didn't care then.
So just have some kind of consistency here.
Perspective as well.
It's not like Trump isn't a dictator.
He's actually, there are lots of checks and balances.
That's the point of the system.
Okay, so you lived in Saudi Arabia for, what was it, 17 years or 19 years?
19 years.
And you mentioned fear mongering.
So I figure now's a good time to bring up Islam.
What do you make of the sort of public consciousness of Islam in the UK?
Because there seem to be two narratives, and I don't think I believe either one.
It's either Islam is entirely good and has never done anything wrong or all bad things come from Islam.
What do you make of it, as someone who must have more experience directly?
Yeah, sure.
I realize it's quite a big question today on the table there.
Yeah, it is.
I think the first thing I'd say would be to address those two views that you said.
You don't really agree with either of them.
I agree that I think both of them are quite incorrect and naive and ignorant.
I think one of them is naive.
I think the other one is more ignorant.
As in, I think it's bizarre when you've got, again, a lot of people primarily on the left who are oddly embracing Islam whilst also trying to embrace the LGBT people and not seeing the huge clash.
I mean, again, this is another thing you're starting to see coming to a head.
I don't know if it was in those schools, it was in Birmingham.
And again, that was something like, obviously that was going to happen.
You know what I mean?
Like, to anyone who's just logical, it's like, well, of course that was going to happen.
Why are you embracing Islam?
Yeah, yeah, I know.
So that's strange to me.
Because, look, there's a difference between it's important, I think, to separate religions from people as well.
So you're separating the ideas from people.
Oftentimes if someone is critical of some aspects of Islam specifically, people will take that as firstly people will say, oh, that's racist.
Like Islam is not a race.
Islam is a religion.
So if someone is critical of Christianity, that's not them being racist to Christians.
If someone is critical of Hinduism or Jainism or whatever, that's not a bigoted, racist thing.
So it's important to separate the Muslim people from Islam itself.
The reality is, as someone who's grown up in an Islamic, totally Islamic country, in a theocracy where there's no divide between church and state or the mosque and state, and people live under Sharia law, essentially, it's very obvious to me just how the level of naivety amongst certain people who are just saying like, okay, there's no incompatibility whatsoever and these things are fine.
I'm pro-feminism, I'm pro-LGBT and I'm pro-Islam.
And you're kind of like, how are you putting these things all together?
Have you really thought about how these things can fit together?
In terms of people, I mean, this goes for any religion, really, is as long as people are tolerant in the true sense in both directions and people aren't trying to force their ideology and ideas on others, then I do believe that a lot of things can be compatible, right?
So I think I guess what you could call a moderated version of Islam is, or, you know, a moderate Muslim obviously can be fine and be fine in the UK or the USA or whatever.
If it's someone who's much more hardline and doesn't have that laissez-faire sort of attitude, as in live and that live, and they want to impose their laws and their will and their beliefs on everybody else, then you're naturally going to get a clash.
That's not unique to Islam.
I mean, realistically, in the current time, given the state of each religion, as far as I can see, that's the one that poses the biggest issue in some of those regards.
But that could come from super fundamentalist Christians.
It could come from super fundamentalist Jews.
It could come from any of those people, and it has done in the past.
Oh, yeah, I mean, if we were to go back 20 years, when you were saying earlier about how it's the right that are having fun now and telling jokes, 20 years ago, it wasn't.
That was the leftist.
And I remember that well.
You know, again, as a hip-hop artist, as someone who's into entertainment and stuff like that, I remember when people were picketing Eminem and trying to ban his music and Marilyn Manson.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was a fan of Marilyn Manson.
certain video games i remember when mortal kombat came out and some of these other games and they had dungeons and dragons yeah there was there was a lot of a lot of stuff um I'm very much, you know, I'm very libertarian in a lot of regards.
My general view is like, you know, I'm a Christian and my general view on is if I say I can't do something because it's against my religion, someone else says that, that's fine.
If I say you can't do that because it's against my religion, then that's crossing the line.
So I think as long as people stay in that first category and don't go into the second and start trying to impose values and beliefs on other people based on their holy book, which another person may not believe, then as long as it stays at that level, it's fine.
Once you cross over, then you're going to end up with all sorts of problems.
And it's this level of interference that we're seeing as the problem in Birmingham, aren't we?
Because the Muslim community there kind of just want to be left be Muslim.
But the LGBT, I don't want to call them, I mean, they're activists, but it is almost like a religion in a way.
And they're saying, no, you have to do this.
And they're saying, well, no, that's conflict with our values.
And, you know, you were saying how, you know, why are they getting in bed together?
I've been thinking about this a lot.
And I think that the sort of like Muslim hardliners, a lot of the theocratic understanding that they have is based on the identity of Muslim.
And so I think that's why the left has picked up Islam as the sort of religion of choice that they'll support because it's a very strong identity and they play identity politics.
I mean, you know, within Islam, you've got the identity of Muslim being separated from the identity of the kuffar and the Dinnis and the La La Have to pay the jizya and all that.
Also, that it's a non-white religion.
That's definitely how they see it as well.
And they see Christianity as a white religion.
I think they see a lot of people see Christians.
You know, when you get these Westerners who don't really like the West, I think they think of Christianity alongside all these other, you know, they lump them all together.
Imperialism, Christianity.
It's a white religion to them.
Yeah, they think they often kind of group all these things together, you know?
So this was the colonizer's religion sort of thing.
Although, on a global perspective, that's not really true, but...
Well, most Christians aren't white.
Yeah, I know.
I know, but that's how they.
But because they're local in white, majority white countries, they view it that that's the case.
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I think that the reason the intersectional left picked it up is because Islam, I think, has got the same kind of worldview with regards to the identity of Muslim, however you interpret that, you know.
And I think that's why they've picked it up.
But it's honestly, I'm loving watching them fall apart with this alliance now.
It's like, gone, where are you going to go?
We warned you.
It's inevitable.
It's inevitable.
I mean, so I feel like I've talked about one side of the equation.
So to address the other side, which is where people are, I believe, overly fearful of it.
And, you know, you get the people who are like extremely anti-Islam and that can easily cross over into anti-Muslim and whatnot.
And I think that's equally, that's equally ignorant.
And it's not rooted in a place of understanding and tolerance and kindness and whatnot.
On both sides, it's like I can understand where they're coming from to a degree, but it's very much, like I said, it's very much separating certain ideas from people.
So if someone's got certain ideas that are going to cause a problem, right?
You've got someone who's like a super fundamentalist.
Yeah, that's, you know, I think everybody can agree that, okay, that's a problem.
If it's someone who even has ideas and beliefs that you may personally, even strongly, vehemently, disagree with, again, as long as they're not forcing that on other people, then you may think they're a bigot, you may think they're sexist, you may think they're whatever.
But as long as they're not imposing that on you in a way that affects you in any way, then tolerance is very, people forget that tolerance is a two-way street.
People are really starting, and it's you have to, you get people to say, oh, you shouldn't be tolerant of intolerance, but it's like, well, who defines what?
I grew up in Saudi Arabia.
What people consider hate speech there, what people consider blasphemy, what people consider acceptable and unacceptable.
You won't want to play by them.
A lot of those people, I'm not, you wouldn't want to play by those rules.
So who's setting them?
You're not the grand moral arbiter of the world who can say that, okay, this is acceptable, that is not.
No one can draw those lines perfectly.
It's the same thing when people ask, I know you're a, how did they describe you, free speech extremist?
Yes.
Guilty as shot.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's the same thing like that, right?
If someone's like, oh, well, what about hate speech?
And it's like, well, who is the person who determines what is acceptable and what is not?
Because it's different to different people.
I don't swear.
I'm offended by, so I, like, weirdly, I don't really mind profanity in music, but I don't actually like profanity in conversations.
If I'm talking to someone in that constantly swearing, like, I'm not going to, you know, but I don't really like it.
I don't like people using, I'm a Christian.
I don't really like people using God's name in vain.
I don't really like people using Jesus' name in vain.
But I'm not going to, you know, and I may let them know.
If it's someone I know, I'll be like, I'd appreciate it if you didn't keep doing that, you know.
But I'm not trying to have them arrested yet.
I'm not trying to have them arrested for using a certain word.
So it's a different thing.
See, I find all this really interesting because the thing with Islam, I find that the most vociferous opponents take the most extreme version to be Islam, actual Israel.
Regardless of what most Muslims actually do.
And the worst part is, all the time it's our government that encourages that.
You know, they'll try and protect people from, like, for example, Boris Johnson calls Muslim women in abundance letterboxes.
It's an offensive joke, but they always ignore the fact that in the column in which he wrote that, he was defending their right to wear those things, saying, no, they should be able to dress as they want, but I'm going to be free to criticize it.
And the sort of the tolerant politically correct crowd came out and castigated him for supporting their right to wear it because he did it in the wrong way.
It's wild.
A lot of those people don't have any principles.
They really, the principles and standards are what gets me slightly closer to my goal in a given moment.
There's no, very little consistency.
It's just not, that's the problem.
With me, I try to have certain principles and be consistent.
It doesn't matter who the person is.
I mean, when you've been seeing some of these social media deplatformings and stuff like that, right?
I've publicly said with a lot of these, even people I vehemently disagree with on certain issues.
I'm like, no, they shouldn't be kicked off.
They shouldn't be deplatformed.
They shouldn't be censored because, you know, unless they say something criminal or they incite violence or they're terrorists or something, then you've got to let people, you've just got to let people speak.
And to me, that's my principal period.
So it could be some far-left activist who wants to have their genitalia waxed.
As long as they're not, as long as they don't cross criminal lines, let them talk, let them do their activism.
I don't agree with them.
Well, yeah, but if they get kicked off, where am I?
Who am I going to get signed?
I need these people to mark.
Yeah.
And that's the thing that people don't get.
So someone will get deplatformed and you'll say, oh, no, that's, and they're like, oh, are you defending so-and-so?
And it's like, no, I'm defending the principle.
People who don't have principles don't understand that, right?
It's the same thing that you're getting when you've got people who are claiming to be anti-racist and then going on about how awful white people are or how awful white men are or whatever.
And it's like, you don't have any consistent principles.
Okay, no, no, no, we've redefined the concept of racism.
It's just, it boggles my brain.
It's kind of painful for me because I'm just like, you have some, you be consistent.
If you're against racism, be against racism.
And we all should be.
Like, just be consistent here.
And I've had that before.
So I've had times when I've, say, on Twitter, I've publicly defended white people.
Wow.
Right?
Either generally or an individual person.
And then I get attacked for saying, oh, you're obviously a black white supremacist or you're caping for white people.
Yeah, that's the term.
You're the same term, isn't it?
Yeah, you're capping as in like a superhero.
You're coming in to cape for them or you're trying to.
And it's just like, no, like, I don't care who the Zuby, defender of white people.
It is.
I'm like, I will defend anyone who's being wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
It doesn't matter, right?
It can be a black lesbian.
It can be a straight white male.
I don't care.
Just treat people fairly and decently and don't demonize them based on these random immutable characteristics.
It's not, I was like, it's not hard.
It's not hard.
So I understand you're a rapper, but I know nothing about rap music or the rap community or the internal politics of it.
So would you like to tell me how your music's being received?
Because I understand you have name-dropped Jordan Peterson in one of your songs.
I have.
That's quickly become one of my best-known lyrics.
Oh, really?
So that's on my song Perseverance, which is off my latest album of the same name.
So the lyric was, it's always hard for me to remember my lyrics unless I'm properly rapping.
It was, you're always talking evil in your raps, and I'm trying to put my meanings on the map.
I gave you 12 rules for life and kept my room clean.
I'm the Jordan Peterson of rap.
Bucko.
I had to throw the bucko in at the end.
Yeah, so I am a fan of Jordan Peterson.
I followed his work from, I want to say early 2016, quite before he became this figure in the way that he has.
But in terms of my music, firstly, my music is apolitical.
My music is not.
It's never been political.
It's not.
I think as I get back to writing, I'm going to drop more social commentary in there because it seems like people...
That's an expressly political statement.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which one?
The Jordan Peterson one.
It shouldn't be, but it is now.
Maybe it is.
By the way, they define the political landscape.
When you say something like that, they react to that.
Like it's a political statement.
Everything is made political.
My deadlift tweet was interpreted politically.
I mean, that had nothing to do with politics, but people took that as a political thing.
So in terms of music, I mean, my music's always been well received by a lot of people.
My real message in my music is actually about personal responsibility, self-empowerment.
You know, I'm independent.
I've released five albums and three EPs completely independently, never been signed to a label, never had a manager, never had an agent.
All my career, I've built up myself.
So I'm very much about if you've got a dream, chase it.
Whether you want to start a YouTube channel or a business or be a musician or whatever, go out there, chase your dream, do it.
You'll have, you know, difficulties and challenges, but overcome them and keep persevering.
That's why I called my album Perseverance.
Right.
Because it's just, you know, keep going.
So that's the overall message I put out there.
And so a lot of people tell me my music motivates them.
They find it inspirational.
And that's really what I'm about.
I don't care if I don't care about the politics of my listeners.
I don't stand on stage and make huge political.
You don't denounce Jeremy Corbyn on the stage.
No, I don't.
No, no, no.
No, I don't denounce Corbyn.
I don't big up Boris.
I just rap.
I don't think everything needs to be politicized.
Actually, music has always been a little bit political or very political, depending on the artist.
But it's good to have some things that are not politicized, at least not all the time.
So people are getting tired of having all their sports politicized and all the art politicized.
And you go to a play and they're making anti-Trump statements in the play.
It's like, look, I just came to see some theater.
I'm not trying to get into this.
I wanted to watch football.
I didn't want to hear what you think about the prime minister.
So what sort of, I think the way they would frame it is saying, well, social politics is political as well, which is what you're commenting on with Jordan Peterson.
So you are being political from our point of view.
What sort of pushback do you get from within the rap community?
Do you ever get other artists denouncing you?
Because, I mean, I guess they'd call you a conservative, wouldn't they?
Yeah, I don't mind being called a conservative.
Certainly not, certainly these days.
If that's what sane means.
Don't call me a leftist.
If conservatism means sanity, then okay, cool.
I'm conservative.
I don't mind.
To be honest, it's been, I'm not so plugged into a community per se.
Like, I've always kind of done my own thing.
So, I know a bunch of other rappers, I know other musicians and everything.
And generally, with people I'm cool with, it's cool.
I mean, I haven't sort of come out of the closet in terms of my politics per se.
I'm not someone whose politics have vastly changed at all in the past 15 years.
I've changed my view on two big topics, and that's it in the past sort of 10 years.
Abortion and drugs.
Oh, right.
Okay, where did you stand, and where do you stand now?
I was kind of pro-choice by default, and I'm very staunchly pro-life now.
And I used to think that most drugs, including weed, should be illegal.
And I've shifted to thinking, no, most of them should be illegal.
Not because I like drugs.
I've never taken one.
No judgment here.
Yeah, no, I've never even smoked weed, never smoked a cigarette.
I don't even drink.
So not for my own sake, but just looking at the facts.
This is what happens when you grow up in Saudi Arabia, isn't it?
Conclusion.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So those are the two things I've shifted on.
But kind of besides that, in terms of, say, fiscal ideas or like taxation and stuff like that, I've moved more libertarian.
I've moved more from, okay, government should do this and that to government should do.
Yeah, government should leave me alone.
Yeah, government should do a few things and do them well and not be in our pockets in our lives and in our bedrooms and all that kind of stuff too much.
So yeah, I mean, in terms of the music world, it's been weird.
It's kind of hard to say.
See, I'm surprised that you haven't had a lot of kickback on the fact that you mocked feminism.
Because a lot of music, the sort of like the mainstream entertainment world, not just music, comedy, filmmaking, music, all these sort of things, they've kind of been taken over by the hardcore leftist.
Dude, the amount of messages, on track, but slightly off track, the amount of messages and DMs I get from people, especially now as my profile has grown, who are silently supporting me and saying, dude, I want to say everything you're saying, but I can't because I've Hollywood actors, like bigger musicians than I am, sports players, people on TV, people on the radio.
I've had so many people, especially since the viral deadlift tweet, I've had so many people be like, dude, like keep doing what you're doing because I want to say something, but I'd lose my job, or I'm worried about this, or I'm worried about that.
So many messages.
And it's both encouraging and discouraging.
Yeah.
It's encouraging in a way because it's like, OK.
It's changing the scope of the problem.
Yeah, it's like I'm speaking up for a lot of people, but it's also like, man, this thing runs a lot deeper than I thought it did.
Like, this is crazy.
I mean, you can't express any kind of conservative view in Hollywood or in certain parts of the entertainment industry without worrying about people, people.
Your actual job.
Yeah, and that's ridiculous.
That's not tolerance.
That's not diversity.
I was supportive of the sort of Gamergate event that happened in 2014.
And that was, I mean, it's been portrayed in all sorts of different ways.
But really, what it was, was a libertarian kickback to the authoritarianism of identity politics.
Because it had invaded the gaming industry a lot quicker than in other industries.
And I suppose that gamers generally had the sort of leave me alone to play my video games ethos.
And so it was just a sort of collective cry of get away from us.
We're sick of talking about what you're interested in talking about.
And it was the same kind of thing then.
I had so many people from big game studios, you know, like, and like the people within the studio itself who made up the studio, you know, the sort of artists, coders, designers, emailing me a message saying, look, don't say anything in public, but I love the fact that you're giving these people hell.
You know, I love the fact that every day I come in and they're upset by a video you've put out.
And it's like, and I know that I've got a friend called The Quartering, he does the same with like the magically gathering industry.
And he gets the same thing where they're like, you know, he'll put a video out.
And, you know, this was back when his channel was quite small as well.
But he'd put a video out.
And at the head offices, they'd be freaking out about this video.
Yeah, yeah, very.
And it's very interesting how there's a lot of sympathy within the institutions for people who are like not part of the leftist club.
No.
You know, and yet they're too afraid to speak out.
But it's one of those things that if everyone just spoke out at once, then we need to organize a day.
We need to put a day on the calendar and be like, look, everybody who is afraid of who's been walking on eggshells for the past 10 years on this day, everyone is just going to speak out and international fuck feminism day.
I'm not even specifically just talking about.
I wasn't even specifically talking about feminism even.
But just a lot of these ideas, you know, lots of this identity politics and all its different horrible variations.
Look, this is what I believe.
These are my thoughts.
It's what I believe.
And, you know, I think some of it is a personality trait.
I mean, it's interesting that you've got people such as yourself who are willing to put their head above the parapet.
And, you know, I mean, you're, as far as I know about your story, you were anyway, or still are, like a normal guy.
I think of myself as a.
You didn't have some sort of super power or position.
It was like, okay, I'm going to start a YouTube channel and I'm going to start talking about some of this stuff.
And it's grown and it's grown and reached millions and millions and millions of people.
And it's like anyone can do that thing on their own scale.
The thing with me, I mean, just in terms of my personality, I'm someone who's just, I'm very strong-willed and I hate cowardice.
I really despise cowardice.
If I'm in a room with 99 people, assuming they're not going to physically attack me, and they all believe one thing and I genuinely believe another thing, I'll voice my opinion.
I'll stand by it.
Yeah, well, I will stand by and I'll be happy to explain it.
If you want to challenge me, I'm like, look, I'm happy to have the discussion.
I'm always happy to have discussions with people.
I enjoy talking to people who disagree with me when they want to, you know?
Bringing them to the table.
Yeah, exactly.
If they want to, I'm like, cool, I'm happy to talk.
Oh, Zubi, why do you believe that?
Okay, let me explain.
Why did you shift your view on that?
Yeah, let me explain.
No problem.
And, oh, gosh, I've lost my train of thought.
Well, let me pick up something you said there, because I very much agree with the sort of do-it-yourself attitude, the sort of self-empowerment attitude.
And that's how I've ended up where I am.
I've just been like, well, I'm going to bullheadishly just do what I want.
And if it offends a bunch of people, well, then that's their problem, isn't it?
But I very much respect that kind of attitude because I don't know, I just can't imagine being dependent on someone else, emotionally, morally, intellectually, anything like that.
I would find it very uncomfortable.
And I would feel the need to break out of the.
I'd find that oppressive.
I think it's a personality trait.
I really think it's just, you know, I mean, because you're an entrepreneur, really.
It's an entrepreneurial mindset.
As in, you don't want to be.
I don't want to be someone else's creature.
Yeah.
Especially not forever.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't want to be 50 years old and be asking for asking another man for permission to go on holiday.
Imagine.
I don't say that as a diss to anybody with a nine-to-five or whatever, but it's just like, no, I don't see that's not for me.
That's not for me.
That's not my path.
That would anger me.
That would annoy me.
I'd be every day, I'd be frustrated and whatnot.
You know, I used to be, I used to work in the corporate world.
I used to work in London.
Yeah, you know, suit and tie job.
And I kind of felt a bit like a caged lion.
Oh, man, I want to go out there and do my music and tour and be creative.
And those are all these other things.
I'm happy to live and die by those decisions.
Exactly.
I'll take that risk.
I'm confident enough that I can overcome whatever I come across.
And I appreciate that that's not for everyone.
It's a risky life and it's scary.
You're actually like on the edge of something and you're constantly moving.
And a lot of people want security, but I'm just not one of those guys.
I want some excitement.
I also think with security, it's like, well, security for how long?
Yeah.
Right?
Because something can be a something can be a good thing.
It's like lying.
In the short term, lying could be a good strategy.
Say, I don't know, someone's in a relationship.
It doesn't even have to be a romantic one or just a pro.
Someone can, you can get away with lying for a while and it might be to your benefit to lie for a little while, but how long can you go for?
And it's the same thing with not speaking out.
If you have an opinion that you, or a view or something that you're just repressing, or a part of you that completely, you're just, I don't know, to use a weird analogy, I imagine it might be what it's like for like homosexual people who are in the closet.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Because in it probably, it's like, okay, they might think, okay, in the short term.
Imagine if you get trapped into a marriage or something.
Yeah, it's better.
They think in the short term, oh, it's better to not bring this out there.
I don't want to upset people.
I don't want to lose opportunities or whatever, especially in the past when, you know, or even in other countries where there's still genuinely a lot of homophobia.
But it's like, I'd imagine for that person, it's like a daily burden that they're there carrying.
And it must be nice for them to, you know, then, okay, cool.
It's like, this is who I am and accept it or don't.
And, you know, maybe, again, I think society's made big strides in that regard, but certainly in the Western world now, like, most people are saying, it doesn't matter if people are, you know, liberal, conservative.
People still have this idea that conservatives are like super unfair.
It's like, most people are just like, yeah, okay, cool, whatever.
Like, it doesn't.
I just want to be left to my own devices.
Cool.
Like, do your thing.
Are you harming anybody?
No?
Are you killing anybody?
No?
Are you making the world a worse?
No?
Okay.
I agree.
So it's.
It seems like the ideal method of operating a society is.
And I suppose this brings us to the lady in the cub who was berating the gay pride protesters.
Oh, I saw people talking about it, but I haven't seen the video.
She, honestly, the worst part about it was the cringy way.
She said that God said it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
I'm like, that's a weird cross-cultural pollination from the American right to the Islamists right, I guess.
But it was, I mean, you know, she was just berating them, saying, shame on you for being gay.
And I mean, they didn't seem that bothered, but now the police are trying to find her because there's a hate crime.
Yeah.
And it's like.
Yeah, I'm.
Just how she looks like a letterbox.
Yeah, I kind of disagree with like both things there.
I disagree with the, assuming it was that she wasn't, you know, attacking or assaulting the guy or whatever.
I haven't seen the video.
Then I don't think that's a police thing.
But I also don't agree, obviously, with her position on that.
Like I said, I'm very live and let live.
There are plenty of things in society that I don't, you know, homosexuality, I don't care.
But there are a lot of things that people do or whatever, actions people make, behaviors people do that I don't personally approve of or think is great nor ideal.
There might be things I do which other people don't think are ideal or whatever.
But it's like, well, that's the world.
I can control myself.
I can police myself.
I can try to be the best person that I can be.
I can try to be kind to everybody, treat everybody.
You don't have a plan for other people.
That's the difference.
No, I mean, if someone's in a bad situation or someone's messing up their own life and they genuinely want help or advice or whatever, if someone is, yeah, you know, I've been going to the gym for 17 years.
I've recently written my first fitness book.
If someone is overweight and they want advice and they want to make their life better, but I'm like, yeah, like that.
Okay, I feel personally attacked now.
Oh, true.
Trigger warning.
Yeah, I know.
If someone was in that, but then it's like, yeah, like if you want my advice, I'll help you.
I'm not going to go, I'm not going to run around the street finding bad people.
You know, like, it's like, no, man, live it, live it, let it, live, man.
If you want advice and you genuinely want the help, and you're like, oh, dude, how do I want to get into the gym?
How do I train?
I'm like, yeah, come on, I'll show you.
Come with me to the gym.
I'll show you how to do this stuff, right?
But yeah, I don't know.
It's funny because what's really interesting is that I, for a long time, I thought that my worldview and my mindset was normal, shall I say?
And it's only in the past a year or two that I've realized how unique and different it is in some regards.
You know, when I'm just seeing all these people responding to what I'm doing, just DM, DM, DM, dude, what you're doing is amazing.
Like, everything's easy.
And I'm kind of like, I think I'm just being like reasonable and trying to be somewhat objective and not insanely biased.
I totally agree, but I think the impression I got from the people who said the same sort of things to me was that they're trapped in a particular culture where that's the total opposite of what we think.
And that there are prescriptive rules regarding how you speak to each other, how you dress, how you act, and things like this.
And I feel kind of bad for them.
When I was getting these messages from these game developers, I was just like, man, you guys sound like you're trapped in some sort of concentration camp, where they're literally sitting up against the fence going, yeah, go and run free.
And I'm like, okay, but like, what am I doing?
But this was the impression I was getting from them.
It's like, oh, Christ, okay.
But anyway, yeah.
Yeah, no, it is strange, especially because we live in such a free country, you know, whether in the UK, US, Canada, whatever, but people are still.
I think there's a kind of person that wants to be unfree and they want to impose that on other people.
There was a hidden tribes report done that showed that about 8% of the population are the insufferable progressive activists that you're talking about on Twitter.
And I think they're the sort of, you know, in a different era, they would have been Bible-thumping Christians, you know, 100 years ago.
And these are the sort of people who are afraid of the future.
I think that's what it is.
Right, Zuby, this has been a really interesting conversation, man.
And where can people find you if they want to follow you?
Yeah, sure.
So I'm on Facebook, Twitter.
Twitter's the best.
YouTube and Instagram at ZubiMusic, Z-U-B-Y Music.
My website is zubymusic.com.
And if you want to get any music merchandise or my e-book, it's available at teamzuby.com.
Great.
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