Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - Terminated ｜ Black Pigeon Speaks Interview

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June 19, 2019 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

45:35

Terminated ｜ Black Pigeon Speaks Interview

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	Hey folks, so in the wake of the recent takedown of his YouTube channel, I've actually been lucky enough to get an interview with a guy called Felix, who you might otherwise know as Black Pigeon Speaks.
	Felix, how you doing?
	I'm doing well, Carl.
	It's good to see you again.
	How are you doing, myself?
	Or how are you doing yourself, excuse me?
	I'm very well.
	So I want to start this conversation by talking about the impact that suddenly losing your YouTube channel had.
	Because as I'm away, you didn't have any community strikes or copyright strikes or anything like that.
	Nothing.
	So there was, I mean, as far as you were concerned, you were golden with YouTube.
	My channel was even monetized, unlike other people's.
	So yeah, absolutely gold as far as YouTube went.
	Yeah, and then suddenly just one day it was just gone.
	Boom.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	One day I just woke up and it wasn't actually me that found out.
	It's almost invariably always somebody telling you.
	I think, you know, whenever bad things happen on the internet, it's always somebody else telling you.
	And I went on to the channel and just saw it's been taken down.
	And there was in my inbox, there was something saying, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, community, you know, we need to keep people safe.
	And if you think it's a mistake, appeal here.
	And I appealed.
	And then 12 hours later, for absolutely no rhyme or reason, it came back.
	Because that's really interesting because it seems that it was the community backlash that did that.
	It would almost invariably be that because the community backlash was actually very, very large.
	And that's something I think that we can talk about later on in the interview is I think that this is maybe something that we as the larger YouTube creators should maybe create some kind of guild, if you will, where we can help smaller YouTubers that are basically encountering the same problems.
	Well there is actually a YouTube union run by a guy called Yoi Sprague, I think it is, the slingshot channel.
	It's got like 2 million subscribers.
	And he did this in the wake of the adpocalypse because why not?
	So I think that perhaps if we start contacting people like him who've already set up a kind of informal infrastructure to essentially be a kind of safety net for people like this, because there is simply no recourse.
	No, there's absolutely none.
	And the thing is, is the pendulum that we're looking at right now has become so skewed.
	You've basically got, if we're going to talk in terms of the UK where we're doing this interview, the positioning of the political center now would be the far left of the Labour Party with Maoists now being the left wing and anyone to the right of that are being Nazis.
	And this is the problem that you're having is you've got basically Maoists, for lack of a better.
	Well unironically, I mean the past Labour Day, May the 1st, John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor of the Labour Party shadow yeah well, the shadow chancellor shadow, it is shadow chancellor.
	Yeah, I thought it was, but then I had a sudden moment of self-doubt.
	But he, he appeared alongside a banner with Mao, Stalin and Lenin on.
	Okay, so none of this surprised me.
	I was at the.
	The Stop Cheeto Hitler, the Drumf, The Drumf Is Taking Over The UK.
	Protest at Trafalgar at the beginning of the month.
	And there were, alongside every European Union flag, there were probably four to five hammer and sickle flags.
	People wandering around with pictures of Stalin, Che Gabara, Mao, you know, all of the usual suspects.
	Yeah, yeah, and this is not an unusual thing either.
	At the previous Day for Freedom protests and other protests that happened between then and now, that I had personally been to, there would just be stalls with people just as you know, revolutionary communist stalls with all the worst characters in history, effectively, hammers and sickles handing out materials.
	Absolutely.
	I view that in the same way as if these were Nazi stalls.
	You know, if they had swastikas and they were handing out.
	Well, I mean, if you want to just take it in terms of numbers of people that were killed in the 20th century, the communists overtake absolutely everybody.
	You could probably throw everybody together and the communists still win in terms of absolute numbers.
	But it's still the sort of, I don't see much of a moral difference between Nazism and communism.
	Neither do I. You know, they're very, very similar in my mind.
	And then, you know, as like broad political philosophies, regardless of the fine distinctions between the sort of sub-categories.
	And then you've got the sort of liberals who are normally like the conservatives and the center right and the center left who should reject both of these groups just wholesale in my opinion.
	But we see communism proliferating all over the West.
	And I've got a lot of friends from Eastern Europe who say, this is quite terrifying to us because we looked at you as a beacon of freedom and progress.
	What are you doing?
	I mean, why do you think that's the problem?
	Well, if you think, if you actually take a look at that, and using your analogy of Eastern Europe, it's very true.
	It almost seems like communism has inoculated these people from what's happening in the Western world today in terms of the Eastern part of Europe.
	You look at it and they aren't buying any of this gibberish and any, and they're not being bamboozled by this absolute shit show dumpster fire of an ideological war that's happening in the West.
	If you take a look at what's happening, I think there's a lot of reasons you could go into and you could get metaphysical, you could get spiritual.
	I think parts of it could be related to the fact of the fall of religion.
	Since probably the 1960s, the number of people attending church is drastically reduced.
	It's incrementally every year reducing.
	And what you have to look at in any sort of social movement is what can it offer the individual.
	If you look at Christianity, Christianity or Islam or any sort of established religion, if you go back to the beginning of Christianity, it gave people a spiritual sense of belonging.
	It gave them something that they could reach for.
	There was something tenable, but there was also something it offered.
	And it offered, I guess, eternal life for the meek and downtrodden.
	The thing about what we're living in right now, we're living in a spiritualess world.
	And I think human beings are generally hardwired toward some sort of spirituality.
	They do seem to search for meaning in something.
	Yeah, and Marxism and the way it works is it gives people a fundamental moral belief that they are right, they are good.
	And if you take a look at the way they even try and basically measure their speech, but also how they try to enact it in things like the Stop Cheeto Hitler at Trafalgar earlier.
	The thing is, is what they're doing is they are basically trying to recreate a value system and they're basically using socialism for it.
	So what you have is your blue checkmarked journalists.
	And I use that word very loosely.
	I mean, these people are Marxist activists.
	Did you see the Colette report tying many left-wing journalists to anti-fi?
	I actually did.
	I actually did.
	So these people would be the priests and the priestesses.
	The followers, like your rank and file anti-fa would be your alcoholites.
	People like you and I, we would be depending on how much they despise us.
	We could either be heretics or infidels.
	Oh, great.
	It depends.
	And hate speech is basically blasphemy.
	So what you have, if you actually asked me at a fundamental level, I think there's a crisis of spirituality that's engulfed the West with the loss of organized religion in the past 50 years.
	And I think socialism, because it's never been attempted in this part of the world and it was actually rejected very strongly up until the 1990s, what's happened is it's seeping in as a replacement for spirituality, if that makes sense.
	Yeah, I think one of the things that is lost, I mean, I'm an atheist and I've never been religious.
	So I don't hold any particular animus towards religion, but I just don't believe.
	But it's obvious, even to me as an outsider, that there is a drive towards looking for a stable moral position.
	And religion used to provide that.
	It used to be what God said and therefore.
	And it was very categorical.
	And it lasted for millennia.
	Exactly.
	And it's, yeah, you have your religious debates, but obviously, if you start from the premise that God exists and, then you are on pretty firm footing if you're looking for a social moral system.
	And I think that's essentially, I do agree with you.
	I completely agree.
	This sort of like the radical left, the priests of diversity and socialism.
	They really are, and you've got the sort of...
	And this is why there doesn't need to be internal consistency.
	This is the problem.
	This is the problem with anyone that doesn't subscribe to this sort of moral underpinning.
	Is the fact is that, let's say, people who would challenge this, it's almost like they're trying to win debates or get an A on their paper, whereas the other side have the religious fervor behind them.
	And I'm using the word religious fervor as a metaphor.
	They don't care whether they're right.
	They don't care whether they're wrong.
	Oh, yeah, exactly.
	It's exactly the same feeling.
	And this is why, you know, having these, let's have a debate and let's see who wins the debate.
	It's not going to help.
	Hang on a second.
	Now, I think you're wrong on that because I think that the debate itself isn't necessarily to persuade the person that you're debating.
	You're talking about the wider audience.
	It is the person watching.
	And I think that that is useful.
	I wasn't thinking in terms of YouTube and in terms- But you are right.
	On an individual level, you're not going to deconvert them, or at least it would take a long period of time.
	And this is why you can have these really odd parts to this, where you'll have, you know, the umbrella, where you'll have radical Islam teaming up with the LGBT community, where you'll have the radical TERFs that don't like the LGBT community, or at least parts of the T community, And then you'll have the radical Muslims that hate everybody in that group, but then you'll have, so it has this dynamic where you don't, you really don't need to have internal consistency within the ideology and they don't care.
	Yeah.
	And that's the whole point.
	The point is, as we were talking a little bit earlier off camera, and I think we talked about this a few of the other times we've met, is that people such as yourself or me, I would have said if in the 1990s somebody asked me my political persuasion, I said probably center left.
	But the problem is, as I said, the pendulum has swung so far that anyone to the right of Nancy Pelosi is literally Heinrich Himmler, you know, and you probably would be Hitler Jr.
	Well, at this point, I am considered one of Britain's leading Nazis.
	No, honestly, I am exaggerating that.
	Even people like Hope Not Hate understand that there is a marked difference between liberals like myself and actual collectivists.
	I hope not hate is a very, very difficult thing.
	But the thing is, no, no, they're very aware of what they're doing.
	Oh, yeah, they know exactly what we were talking about.
	They are people that don't care about the reality of the situation.
	It's funny because I was walking down Palm Mall the other day and I was told that their offices are just to the left in one of the most expensive squares in London.
	Now, you tell me that they're not going to try and look under the cushions for any boogeyman they can find to keep that sweet shape.
	Where does the money keep coming from?
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	To keep those sweet, to be able to have offices in literally the most expensive area in London, right off of Palm Hall.
	And if anyone's not aware of what Palm All is, just look it up on the internet.
	And you'll find that you have some kind of anti-hate organization that has offices in this place.
	And you're telling me they're not going to try and find any boogeyman, whether or not his positions are even relative to what they say they are.
	They're not going to be honest.
	Well, they are a crusading organization for their own particular ideology.
	And now that I've actually been told that their offices have moved to a less cushy part of the city, Euston, it really doesn't matter because they were still there.
	They're still in central London.
	Why aren't they out in the outer Hebrides?
	The internet still exists.
	They don't have much traction, which is interesting.
	They've got almost none.
	I've seen that.
	It's the connections that they have with people like the BBC that Tommy Robinson exposed.
	I mean, that to me is just unconscionable.
	But yeah, no, I think that the search for meaning and identity is the sort of key question of our time.
	And it really, I don't think we can bring back religiosity.
	I think that once belief in a religion seeps away, then it's very difficult to bring that back amongst people who have lost it.
	So what do you think?
	I would agree with that.
	The only thing I would do also is give you the counterexample of the country I live in right now, being that I am all of these things that Hope Not Hate says or the numerous people that were celebrating my deplatforming.
	I do live in a country that isn't in the Western world and I surround myself with non-Western people.
	And the thing is, is you can learn a lot being a foreigner in a place.
	I'm not an immigrant.
	I'm an expat.
	I'll probably be leaving Japan very soon, but I have learned a lot.
	And one of the things I've learned in Japan, and to sort of, I'm going off what you've just said, is that the Japanese, I have not really met very many religious people.
	And the ones that are religious are generally Christians.
	And there's very, very few of those.
	But what they have been able to do in their society is they've been able to synthesize the religious aspects of their culture within the culture itself where people enact the culture.
	They'll go to the temples.
	They'll pray to whatever, I mean, whether it's Buddha or the Shinto religion, which has, and it's actually one of the only countries I know that's been able to fuse two separate religious traditions within the same territory and not have them fight.
	So you can be a Shinto, a practitioner of Shinto, and you can be a Buddhist, and it doesn't matter.
	There's no problem with that.
	And they've been able to maintain all of the religious aspects of their culture without having to actually believe it.
	See, that's really interesting because that was actually a commentary on the English for a long time.
	That they aren't necessarily a very religious people, but they go through the rituals.
	They go through the motions of religion because it's been kind of bred into them that when you are that thing, you know.
	And it's very sort of a procedural understanding of religion, which seems to be what you're describing.
	You do the thing because it's culturally normal to do it.
	Even if you don't necessarily have a great wellspring of people.
	Absolutely.
	When the holidays come around, you celebrate them.
	When there's some sort of religious festival, you'll celebrate it.
	And these things, I think, can be maintained.
	And I think there should be an attempt to strengthen those sort of traditional aspects of culture because without having roots, I actually saw one of the cardinals going off the other day.
	It was actually an African cardinal in the Vatican talking about how he feared for Europe because Europe has forgotten itself.
	And without its roots, the tree dies and the tree being, he was, I guess, using the metaphor of the tree being Europe.
	And without knowing who you are, you're not going to be able to survive a long time into the future.
	And you can almost see a lot of that in cities like London here.
	People.
	And I know John Cleese got a lot of trouble for this, but it's literally not an English city, people.
	Yeah, I mean, just walk around it.
	Walk up Prade Street and tell me that that's an English town.
	It's Arabic signs.
	Yeah, it's Edgware Road.
	It's exactly the same.
	They're not.
	You go a lot of different places where I'm staying.
	It's interesting because I stay in a fairly nice neighborhood right now, but you walk about five, six blocks that way and it just turns into, I don't know, Mogadishu or something.
	So it's not an English city.
	And the thing is, though, is this city culturally now has become, I would say, indistinguishable from cities like Sydney, Toronto, New York.
	All of them have this globalized feature where it's all the same sort of chain stores, chain restaurants, and it's all this sort of like diversity is our strength, but we don't really know what makes it our strength.
	Well, yeah, that's never qualified.
	No, no, and it's also, it's also, if you actually have any opinion that it is actually not a strength, well, you're a heretic.
	You are blaspheming.
	You're on the outside now.
	We're the inclusive ones.
	You're not included.
	Yeah, and this is exactly what comes back to the idea of this sort of cult of diversity and the cult of inclusion is it doesn't include anyone that doesn't actually follow every single tenant of that.
	Like, for example, I've said numerous times in my videos that I think measured and controlled immigration that allows a population and a community to settle in a place and then thrive is actually a very good thing.
	The only thing is, is you're never going to have this is the thing I think that labels need to be changed.
	So conservative, well, what is a conservative?
	The only thing that happens in life is change.
	So the idea.
	Don't worry about it.
	Okay.
	So the idea is that with conserving something, you're just fighting against the inevitable change.
	And the thing is, is that what you should be looking more toward, and it's almost an issue of vocabulary, what you should be looking toward is some kind of some kind of political understanding or ideology that looks to maintain the best parts of a society while embracing change that is beneficial.
	And what we have now is we're like a roller coaster coming off the tracks on one way where anyone who says anything about, hold on, guys, we're coming up to a turn and we're probably going to derail.
	Hey, you be quiet, you evil person, and you don't have an opinion because these things aren't beneficial to society.
	I entirely take what you're saying here because this is a criticism I had of conservatives as well.
	It's not a positive statement of values.
	It's to say that whatever came before us is what we're going to preserve.
	And in this country, that means a kind of Blairite social order.
	Tony Blair's open borders, diversity agenda, all that, hate speech laws.
	All of that has been conserved by the Conservative Party in this country.
	And it's very frustrating because what I would rather they do is essentially identify as like a liberal party and say, well, look, it's not liberal to have hate speech laws.
	It's not liberal to just sell our nation out to the rest of the world.
	It's not liberal to abandon our national sovereignty.
	I 100% agree with you.
	And that's why I'm very, very vocal about saying, no, no, no, I don't care what the American left call their socialists, you know, or the American right call their socialist left.
	I am an English liberal.
	You know, I'm not a French liberal.
	I'm not like a, you know, I'm not a socialist, not a fascist.
	I've got a very particular set of values that I think are beneficial for our countries and we should advance that.
	I don't see why we're not.
	Well, I 100% agree with you.
	And that's what I was saying.
	There needs to be a change in vocabulary because, like I said, the one thing in this world that's always going to happen is change.
	But what you have to do is be able to navigate that change and be able to hold on to what was good, but then embrace the changes that are coming that are something that can be beneficial.
	Instead, what we have is this polarized, what's happening right now, and it comes back to things like what were happening to you on your bid to become an MEP.
	I watched some of this with people throwing milkshakes at you and people throwing fish at you and people cursing at you, calling you names.
	And the point is, is what you have is it's a drive towards censorship.
	And this is something I think is very important, is that censorship is the last bastion of a dying authority.
	And the reason people are dismayed and people are feeling bad about what's going on is they have this idea that through the censorship, you know, people that want freedom or want to have a certain set of moral understandings of the life we live, we're losing.
	We're actually not.
	This is proof positive that we're winning.
	And if we weren't winning, they wouldn't need to censor us.
	This is why, like, anyone who's on board with the sort of, and this is the thing, even talking about things, I'm getting censored now because I have problems with the way global finance works by fractional reserve banking while creating money out of nothing and then loaning it at interest.
	And then you say this, and then somehow I've been lombasted from Harvard University, the New York Times, a whole bunch of different outlets for having problems.
	And they say, well, this is just another way to be hateful.
	And literally, they come after you now for finance.
	So it's almost at the point where we're so polarized that having an opinion that's even what, again, what I would say 20 years ago was a centrist opinion is radicalized, whether it's on the left or the right.
	And the center is disappearing.
	Well, I totally agree.
	I mean, look at Bill Clinton describing building a wall in the 90s.
	This was something that the Democrat Party...
	Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were against gay marriage until they weren't.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Until about, what is it, 2015 or something like that, when it's something that just flipped.
	What they don't understand, though, is pursuing a course of action where you try to inflict and impose a set of moral standards on people that aren't ready for them.
	And then when that won't work, you try to censor.
	All you're doing is you're radicalizing the moderates.
	It's all that's happening.
	You're radicalizing moderates.
	And we're seeing this now, in fact.
	Did you see the latest attempted shooter in Dallas?
	Was this the transgender?
	No, this was a right-wing meme lord from the internet.
	He wasn't a photo himself, but he has lost track of the people.
	Yeah, no, no, no.
	Well, this is the thing.
	This is the third or fourth one since Christchurch, where it's a young man who's just not seeing an exit at the end of the tunnel, right?
	The end of the tunnel.
	And when he tries to speak about it, he's being shut down and radicalized, in my opinion.
	And when you tell people that you can't even speak about this issue, even if we disagree morally, you can't even speak about it, then all they've got as a recourse is violence.
	They've got nothing else.
	It's interesting.
	I think I've done a video on it, and I think maybe you and I talked about it one of the other times we've met.
	In China, there's actually an insult on the internet that they use toward each other called Baizua.
	And it means white left.
	It's like, man, you're acting like a white leftist.
	Where I live in Tokyo, when they see some of the crazier parts of social justice, and I go out to the pub and I chat with some of my Japanese friends, they're like, what is wrong with you people?
	Like, literally, have you lost all common sense?
	And the thing is, is places like Japan, probably from the end of the Second World War to about 2000, was a country that, like, for example, Eastern Europe, was a place in the world.
	And I would probably put Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong along those same lines, where they kind of thought that the West was the leading center in the world in terms of morality, of just all the different things and aspects, all of these sort of things.
	And now the thing is, even when you talk to people back, you know, probably in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, it would be a dream for anybody in Japan to get a green card and be able to move to the United States.
	Nobody wants to go there anymore.
	nobody's interested in going there and another thing about central americans are well Well, yeah, Central Americans are, but, you know, people in Hong Kong, people in Taiwan are like, yeah, you know what?
	I think I'm happy to stay where I am.
	And another thing about that is when you take a look at the United States, they also now, if you want to give up your American passport, you have to have an exit tax.
	Who needs to pay exit taxes on citizenship on a country that supposedly is the best in the world?
	Now, I'm not saying America's a bad place, and I don't want people to think I'm saying that.
	What I am saying is that we have lost our moral authority because literally we are a society that, for all intents and purposes from the outside, looks like it's gone stark raving mad.
	And one of the things I have, I think, that's unique is I, most of my time I spend outside of the Western world.
	I live in the Far East.
	And it gives me a little bit of a different lens.
	And the problem is sometimes I might be too blunt on certain topics.
	The thing is, is I'm not a person who's going to couch term, couch my words in terms that try not to offend you.
	Yeah.
	You know, I'm sorry, but.
	Well, you don't have political correctness in the Far East.
	Not.
	Not at all.
	It doesn't exist.
	And that kind of rubs off on you.
	And the thing is, living in the Far East, I would say talking to people in the Far East, you really do start to realize how utterly absurd half of the things people are supposedly concerned with.
	And all of the sort of different ists and isms and how everyone is an iss or an ism so long as they don't believe in the most radical fringe of the Maoist left that supposedly is what you would consider, at least in terms of the mainstream media, as being the, you know, the moderate left.
	These are people aren't moderate, they're fanatics.
	They're activists, they're fanatics, and they're losing and they know they are.
	And this is why they're trying to be as censorious as they are.
	Yeah, I mean, there's no principle justification for censorship.
	You only do it because someone is threatening you and you have the power to do so.
	Absolutely.
	It's just about protection.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And especially when it comes to different ideas.
	So the video that I think threw my channel into the dustbin there for a while was one where I was critical of the current situation at Vox with our friend Carlos and the war against Stephen Crowder and these sort of aspects of the media not being legitimate, not being objective and not being partial, but being partisan and being activists.
	And the thing is, what I've noticed, anytime you start pointing the finger at the media, they get really, really upset for you pointing out their bias.
	They get really upset you pointing out their basically not even adhering to any kind of code of journalism at this point.
	I mean, things like The Guardian, I would say probably in the 1990s, I would have read, I would have realized that it had a left slant, but I could get in.
	It literally now is almost indistinguishable from the Huffington Post, Vox, and BuzzFeed.
	They are absolutely a partisan rag of clickbait.
	Look at their opinion section, and that gives you a barometer of the political wind inside The Guardian, like political zeitgeist inside The Guardian.
	And it's literal communists, socialists, and feminists and racial activists.
	That's the list.
	And then you get people saying, well, I hate neoliberalism because I'm a socialist.
	And it never used to be this far to the left.
	No, it's a noticeable shift.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Again, like I said, they've tried to move the center to the far left of the Labor Party.
	And for American viewers, that would be the far left of the Democratic Party.
	I even saw somebody in the United States that was giving a rundown of the different primary candidates for the Democratic Party coming up to 2020.
	And they were talking literally, they said Bernie Sanders was the moderate candidate.
	He was the, literally, I'm not kidding.
	He was the centrist candidate.
	Where Tulsi Gabbert, she's the psychotic right-wing fanatic.
	And they're literally talking about this in the Democratic Party primaries.
	And when you start seeing things like this, you have to understand that whatever the barometer of a society is, we are not living in normal, healthy times.
	There's something intrinsically wrong right now.
	And one of the things I would say, it's being fed by an overzealous media that is being propped up.
	I mean, I don't know if you saw Vice, which actually probably started off as a fairly interesting media outlet, but the thing has turned into anti-Fa with type.
	I mean, it is actually as far left as you can get, and it was dying.
	And George Shoros had to come in and save it with an injection of $250 million.
	I think he was part of a consortium of people that did.
	Disney as well, didn't they?
	Disney put money into it.
	Google's putting money into the young Turks.
	I mean, they're the preferred partners.
	I mean, you listen to the Young Turks, they are absolutely the large guy, Chunky.
	He's absolutely, and his screaming co-host, the angry one, the lady, they are as partisan, as toxic.
	On the pass side, though, at least they're openly partisan.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	They say it.
	Absolutely.
	But they are just as toxic as anything you would find on the far right.
	Oh, yeah.
	Right?
	And the thing is, is that people such as yourself and me, because we aren't on board with absolutely everything of the progressive agenda, you and I are basically considered.
	I mean, just looking at the whatever that means, you know what I mean?
	And the thing is, I don't even consider the Nazis really to be a very right-wing movement.
	So, you know, if right-wing is liberal, then the Nazis are definitely on the left.
	Well, they're socialist.
	Well, exactly, they are.
	And I love that this is going to, there's going to be a lot of angry responses from socialists going, no, we don't want to be associated with them.
	And it's like, well, they did operate a centralized economy with censorship and stabo.
	And they persecute their political opponents.
	All I'm saying is that you look really similar if you're a person.
	Well, take a look, think about this: right now, the only people that are trying to censor is the so-called left.
	They're the only ones trying to censor.
	I don't see anyone trying to censor them.
	The only thing I ever see is people such as yourself.
	Let's say it, let's have a conversation.
	Let's have a little bit of an introduction to ideas where they're just like, no, you be quiet.
	We're going to try to censor you as best we can.
	That's exactly it.
	And that is an assumption of infallibility, as if they have received wisdom from Lord Marx, who's come down and graced them with the labor theory of value, and that can't be questioned under any circumstance.
	And anyone who does is a devil.
	Again, the cult of Marxism and the whole religious undertones.
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	It is like received wisdom that they interpret it.
	And now we have scriptures we have to pour over.
	This is why when my channel was banned for the first 12 hours, there was just celebration on Reddit, on Twitter.
	There was these, you know, the usual suspects, you know, the basement dwelling sort of friends of ours, you know, these kinds of people.
	And, you know, they're all celebrating.
	You know, we finally, now who are we going after?
	Okay, we've got to now get Molyneux.
	We've got to get Sargon.
	We've got to get Dave Cullen.
	We've got to get these people.
	Now these are our next targets, like one down.
	And they don't really understand that all you're doing by doing this is, as we said again, you're driving moderates into extremism.
	The thing is, is that you shouldn't celebrate anybody's voice being taken from them.
	Because the thing is, so long as they're not calling for the elimination of an entire people or yelling fire in a theater, if you will.
	But this is where we're at.
	We're at where people who believe themselves to be, through the cult of Marxism, infallible in their.
	And the thing is, is people such as you and me, we are people that challenge that.
	And therefore, we are, in their minds, evil.
	Can I give you an example?
	Evil.
	So when I was doing the Southwest tour, we went to Tottenham and I spoke to, you know, one of the sort of like mid-20s hippie leftist types, a chap.
	And he was, I mean, I had literally just had a debate with a woman about what fascism was because they're obsessed with fascism.
	And nobody can actually ever define it properly.
	She was a history teacher.
	She literally.
	And he was just sat there going, well, I think you don't actually want free speech.
	I don't think you'd platform a woman.
	I think that you'd censor all these people.
	And I'm just at the point, A, I've just platformed a woman, but B, all you're doing is giving me an example of what you would do.
	You know, you're saying that I am just like you.
	Well, I'm not.
	I'm the complete opposite.
	I genuinely do believe in platforming these ideas.
	So A, I can enjoy listening to them and considering them.
	And, you know, there might be some truth to something and some truth to another thing.
	And then I can, you know, interpret that into my own worldview.
	But I don't want to take it away because I have no authority to take away their voice.
	And this is the thing.
	What authority do people, and you talk to anyone from the United States, is that Silicon Valley doesn't represent America.
	Oh, God.
	It is its bubble unto itself.
	And they have now taken it upon themselves to be the arbiters of what people should and should not be allowed to speak, what people should and should not be allowed to think, and more importantly, what people should and should not be allowed to exercise in the world they live in.
	And they have a power and they've taken it upon themselves that they should never have because they are not people.
	Nobody is an arbiter to say, well, now, I guess the question would be, who would you allow to censor you?
	Exactly.
	And that's always the best question.
	Who would you trust to censor you?
	I should be my own editor in that regard, should I not?
	I should be the one deciding what I can and can't say.
	And as soon as you ask them that, it reveals the, frankly, immoral nature of their own position.
	Do you realize that even the concept of freedom of speech is now considered a partisan issue where you'll have oh, yeah, absolutely.
	When you talk about freedom of speech, you'll have people come.
	Well, yeah, that's just a right-wing, that's a fascist issue.
	Unbelievable.
	This is a fascist, Nazi issue.
	You know, talking about freedom.
	That's what those fascists want to.
	Those fascists, they want to have people be able to say what they want.
	Those Nazis are, you know, they're really pushing us to let them speak something and they want everyone to be allowed to speak.
	This just can't be allowed.
	Typical fascism.
	Yeah, typical fascism.
	And it is.
	They believe literally it's a partisan issue at this point.
	And that is where we are.
	Yeah, it is.
	And this is why I think people such as yourself are very important in the pushback against this sort of thing.
	Because as I said, with the nature of all the censorship that's going on right now, this isn't a position of strength that they're coming from.
	It's actually a position of weakness.
	And they're losing and they know it.
	Well, this is why I didn't hesitate to put up a video in support of you getting your channel back.
	Because there are a lot of people who say, well, what about the political differences you might have?
	And it's like, well, what about them?
	At the end of the day, at the end of the day, if you're a YouTube content creator with a large channel and audience, it doesn't really matter what your beliefs are.
	You're in the same boat as all of the other ones.
	And when the Scythe comes along, we don't know who it's going to get.
	But it's, I mean, there were lots of leftist channels who got de-platformed and demonetized in this latest wave that Carlos Marzer started against Stephen Crowder.
	And it's like, history channels and things like this.
	And again, it's just unjust.
	It's just unjust.
	It's funny too, because the thing is, is what people will say are my political beliefs or my positions are absolutely not.
	What you have right now is, again, anyone having a different opinion is painted as a comical villain with, you know, he's a mustache-twirling, evil person that's out to eat babies.
	And they feed off of it.
	And this is the same thing, as I told you, is I had this one article.
	It wasn't an article.
	It was a dissertation at Harvard Kennedy School of Business written by the former communications director of the Bernie Sanders 2016 campaign.
	The guy didn't have a job, got a fellowship there, basically spent four months writing a paper about me, didn't contact me once.
	And it was just a bunch of his own assertions and his own beliefs.
	And then the problem was, and the main one was that I was very critical of the current system of finance with fractional reserve banking.
	But this gets picked up by then the New York Times and it gets, you know, spread that this guy is X, Y, and Z.
	And then it gets picked up by the young Turks, X, Y, and Z.
	And it just flows downstream.
	And then by the time it gets to all of these sort of activist social justice warriors, they have absolutely no idea what I actually do say.
	What they're doing is they're feeding at the trough of lies that are spread by these political activists, again, portraying themselves as journalists.
	And I don't want to have to keep bringing up my Southwest talk, but honestly, this is why I did it, because that's exactly what happened to me.
	The media would take something out of context or just fabricate something sometimes, and then they'd spread it.
	And then eventually I would end up dealing with activists.
	I'd say, what did I say?
	When did I say it?
	Why did I say it?
	And they'd just fall.
	It doesn't matter.
	They didn't know.
	And they don't care.
	That's the whole point.
	No, they just went away angry because they realized that they couldn't actually pin me down on something.
	Absolutely.
	No, and then that's exactly the same thing.
	I mean, I have a hundred different circumstances and instances where I'll say something, but there's an entire argument behind it.
	And it'll be a part of it, but it won't be some sort of argument that's based on this one thing without any sort of context.
	But that doesn't matter.
	It really doesn't matter.
	And I think we're kind of flogging a dead horse at this in the sense that I think a lot of people now are starting to understand.
	Like, for example, when they try to censor me or they try to censor you.
	And, you know, one of the things I should say on your channel, I want to say thank you to you.
	I want to say thank you to all the other people, Paul Watson, all the other people that kind of helped me out in this, is the idea that we as content creators, but also as the viewers, we're becoming more aware of the nature of the beast that's trying to contain the ideas that you're trying to spread.
	And I think what it's doing is, is it's making, every time they censor people such as myself or you, it makes people more immune again and again and again to the, I would call it that the trickery of the legacy media.
	And I think people are really, every time, so for example, like the things that you say are eminently reasonable for the most part, I would say.
	And I would say I probably would say the same thing about myself.
	But the thing is, is every time people like you and I are censored, what happens is people become more aware of this trickery and they become immune to it in the future.
	And not only that, I noticed that when you got your channel back, you'd gain something like 30,000 subscribers.
	It's like 45,000.
	45, was it now?
	Yeah.
	See, now that, again, like, if they were seeking to silence you, they seem to have done a fairly poor job.
	Yeah, yeah, they've catapulted me up too.
	I think I'm just behind you now on BitChute now.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	I've gained something like, I don't know, 10,000 on Twitter.
	I'm glad that you brought up BitChute because let's talk about alternative media.
	Alternative platforms, non-Silicon Valley platforms.
	Because I've, because of the scythe that's been coming along, I mean, you know, even people like Stephen Crowder, who's the most orthodox conservative.
	I mean, doesn't he even bleep swear words?
	Yes, he does.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, and so, you know, when Carlos Maz is like, well, lispy queers of the world unite, and Stephen Crowder gets demonetized, then you've got to look at it and go, okay, Silicon Valley isn't actually a safe place for any kind of conversations.
	it's safe for orthodoxy it's safe for people who are going to play the victim and and sort of suckle up to them and say well look you know i'm i mean and as if anyone believes carlos maz has actually been hurt by anything Oh, absolutely.
	He's actually loving the attention.
	He's loving it.
	Yeah, he is.
	Absolutely.
	He's loving it.
	So what non-Silicon Valley platforms would you recommend?
	I would recommend definitely BitChute.
	I would recommend Gab, even though the thing is, it's funny because anytime there's a non-Silicon Valley platform, what they try to do is demonize it.
	So when Gab came around and they said, look, we're not going to be censorious in what you do.
	I mean, I guess, obviously, the things, you know, if it's child pornography or wanton, yeah, that's legal.
	Wanton violence of, you know, like cartel murders or something, of course.
	Illegal stuff.
	But they're not going to censor you on your political opinions, I think, is a very good thing and it's a necessary thing and something we need to have.
	And this is so I would say, I'll get to my point later, but I would say, Gab, I would say try to get away from Chrome and you can do that with Firefox.
	You can do it with Brave.
	Yeah, Brave.
	I've made a video on this.
	If anybody's interested, it is in my catalog.
	I have an entire video.
	I think it's called De Google Fying Yourself.
	Okay, well, what I'll do is I'll leave a link to your channel in the description, but I'll use that video so people can see.
	Yeah, I've got a whole list of things people can use to get away from Silicon Valley.
	So, you know, rather than go over it another time, maybe watch that video.
	The other thing I was going to get at with things like Gab, things like BitChute, these platforms need to be supported in the sense that it can't only be about political content.
	For example, as I understand it, most young people go to YouTube now just to watch like music videos or maybe a tutorial on something.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	But I mean, their personal stuff, I think they're probably putting up on, I don't know, TikTok or they're putting up on, I don't know, do people use Facebook anymore?
	I don't know.
	The boomers do.
	Yeah, the boomers.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I got kicked off Facebook a long time ago.
	I have a page for my channel, but my personal one, what is interesting, it was like an eight-year-old account.
	And then once I made my black pigeon page and I got about 50,000 subscribers on there, they said, well, you know what?
	We need to have some government ID to prove who you are.
	You know, you just have to send us your passport or your driver's license or one of these pieces of ID.
	And then we will unlock your personal account.
	I haven't had that yet.
	You're lucky.
	Yeah.
	Well, I'm on a list as well with Facebook.
	Oh, I know.
	I saw that.
	You're on a hate list.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	For neutrally representing one of the Proud Boys.
	Yeah.
	I am in favor of the Proud Boy.
	You're on a hate list.
	I saw that.
	Yeah.
	No, but the point is, I think where we're going right now, these alternate platforms can only grow.
	They can only grow.
	There's nowhere else.
	So I'm thinking, like, honestly, like in the near future, you might have something like D Live or whatever for streams.
	Like people don't necessarily need to go to all one place to get this stuff.
	I mean, I don't know, like you said, anyone who uses Facebook except boomers at this point.
	Just normies.
	Yeah.
	Like, I don't know anyone who does.
	The problem is, Facebook does have 2 billion users still.
	Yeah.
	And so the problem is we do need to reach the normies.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	I'm saying, like, in terms of like, for example, I have my page and I update it all the time.
	Well, actually, I don't.
	It's an admin that updates it.
	So if you send me a message and I don't answer it in about six months, it's not my fault.
	I apologize.
	I just don't have access.
	I'm the same on that regard.
	Yeah, I don't have any access to any of that.
	But yeah, I think the problem that we're facing right now is a matter of absolute urgency of our society and our civilization.
	Because if you can't have free and open conversations about the things that are pertinent in a society, the only recourse people will have is, as you said, radicalization.
	And this sort of movement is pushing people further and further and further to the edges.
	And I don't think that this is a healthy outcome that anybody wants.
	And I also don't think that there's ever going to be a way, maybe in a country like the UK that doesn't have any firearms rights, but there is absolutely.
	We actually do.
	We've got something like half a million legally owned guns in the country.
	But they're never going to be able to push a socialist agenda in the United States.
	And if you do try, it's just going to create social chaos.
	And I would warn these Marxist and these basement antifa characters.
	And that's an interesting thing because I did see a study on people arrested for political violence in Germany, and 92% of them were living with you.
	And I think a third of them were unemployed as well.
	Yeah, keyboard LARPers, aren't they?
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's like.
	Wouldn't it be great if we had a communist revolution?
	Well, go ahead then.
	Yeah, you know.
	Yeah.
	So I don't think the thing is, is these sorts of people, they kind of disappear once they have to get a job and pay taxes.
	So this is the thing.
	So I don't, I think that these people are delusional in any sense that we're ever going to have a Marxist socialist state in a place like the UK or the United States for that matter.
	So they're barking up the wrong tree and they're never all they're going to keep doing is they're going to radicalize the other side to a point where it will end in a situation that nobody wants.
	Well, my fear is we'll go down the route with South America where we'll use democracy democracy to eventually essentially destroy the economies of the countries that they are in control of by trying to bring socialism in.
	Then when that fails, they'll say, well, that wasn't real socialism, as in it wasn't, it wasn't completed.
	Venezuela 2.0.
	Exactly.
	And then they'll say, well, that's nothing to do with us.
	Well, because the revolution never ends.
	Exactly.
	I have a friend of mine.
	He lives in Tokyo.
	His name's Joe.
	And he was telling me he's an older guy.
	He lives, well, older than us.
	He's not that old, but he's old enough to have gone to school in the Soviet Union for one year at university.
	And he was telling me, this would be back in the 1980s, I guess, during perestroika.
	And he told me that he went and was talking to these people in this in, I think he was staying in Leningrad, which is now St. Petersburg.
	And he asked them, so like, how do you guys like your Soviet country?
	Or sorry, your communist country?
	They're like, well, no, no, hold on.
	The revolution hasn't ended.
	He's like, what do you mean the revolution hasn't ended?
	Didn't it end like after the First World War?
	No, no.
	The revolution could go on for a thousand years, maybe 2,000.
	We don't know.
	We're not ever really going to be sure when we've actually reached the pure utopian socialism and communism that we're after.
	And I think this is something very instructive of the same sort of mindset that we're dealing with.
	Whereas, you know, you can just pick, like you just said, South America.
	You can pick example after example after example after example after example, but hold on, it wasn't, it wasn't implemented correctly.
	We're gonna do it right this way and then, when it crashes and burns oh, but it wasn't implemented correctly, we just have to tweak this, that or the other thing.
	Yeah, and this is literally the kinds of people that you're dealing with when you try and explain to them.
	Hold on, oh yeah, take a look at Venezuela.
	As far as I understand, they went into this, this city, fucking zoo in Caracas, I think oh yeah, and they ate all of the animals in the zoo because there was nothing left to eat.
	And this I could be wrong on this it's, something that somebody yeah no no no, I saw that that's, that's true.
	And you, you can see, just like um uh, I can't even remember the name of the currency they use there now, but just the, the currency lining the streets because it's just worthless.
	Yeah absolutely, they've just ruined their country and it's, and now it's a dictatorship, and the terrorists, and hopefully they won't start the death camps that are So readily and such a fixture of these sorts of societies, you know.
	I mean, well, it depends how bad it gets, doesn't it?
	Yeah, it does, you know, and who's going to be the one is marked as the dissident, the one who's needed for censorship, the one who is the blasphemer.
	So, yeah, it's there's again, there's so many correlations between that and a lot of the things we've talked about today.
	Right, okay, well, I think we can call it there.
	So, it's good to see you again.
	You too.
	Yeah, you too.
	Thanks for having me.
	And hopefully, we survive to see another few months on YouTube.
	The two of us.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Yeah, thanks very much for having me coming.
	Anytime, though.
	All right.

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