Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - The Utopianist #Plymouth
Aired: 2019-05-18
Duration: 08:49


=== Why Raise South African Culture? (03:06) ===

[00:00:01]  Right.
[00:00:01]  So, the people chanting, can we talk to you?
[00:00:04]  We'd like to know why you think we're racist.
[00:00:08]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:00:09]  It's because you, because you, hi.
[00:00:12]  How's it going?
[00:00:14]  Would you like a right?
[00:00:15]  So you have to hold it fairly close to your mouth.
[00:00:17]  Alright, thank you.
[00:00:17]  Right, what's your name, please?
[00:00:18]  My name's Claire.
[00:00:19]  Claire, can I show you how?
[00:00:20]  Thank you very much.
[00:00:20]  I have almost a British accent after being here for 13 years.
[00:00:24]  And are you from South Africa?
[00:00:25]  I should be applauded.
[00:00:27]  I'm from South Africa, yes.
[00:00:28]  Yes, I can tell by the accent.
[00:00:29]  Great.
[00:00:30]  Okay, would you like to talk to us about hate speech?
[00:00:33]  Hate speech?
[00:00:34]  Well, where I come from in our country, we have freedom of speech, but we respect that you can't harm or bully anybody by what you're saying.
[00:00:42]  It's quite shocking to come here and realise that you've used freedom of speech as a way to put other people down.
[00:00:48]  I don't.
[00:00:49]  Well, would you rather me put them down in a different way?
[00:00:52]  Well.
[00:00:55]  Do you think that some people don't deserve to be held to account for the way they act?
[00:00:58]  It's not about being held to account.
[00:00:59]  It's about being judged for where you come from or your contribution to the country that you're currently in.
[00:01:05]  Why is that unfair?
[00:01:07]  Because we're all just people.
[00:01:09]  Why are we trying to make sure that we're protecting ourselves from these people coming in?
[00:01:15]  Aren't you erasing their cultural distinctions when you say that?
[00:01:18]  There shouldn't be cultural distinctions.
[00:01:20]  That's what you're trying to do.
[00:01:21]  Why?
[00:01:22]  Because it doesn't work.
[00:01:24]  It doesn't work.
[00:01:24]  You will get people coming up against each other.
[00:01:27]  You're creating hatred.
[00:01:28]  No.
[00:01:29]  You're creating division.
[00:01:30]  No.
[00:01:30]  And nothing good comes out of that.
[00:01:32]  I think that people have a right to exist as they are.
[00:01:35]  I don't think that you've got any right to try and raise their cultures.
[00:01:38]  Why are you saying you're trying to raise my culture as a South African?
[00:01:42]  No, I think that you are trying to erase our culture.
[00:01:45]  When you say raise, are you saying I'm trying to destroy it?
[00:01:48]  E-raise.
[00:01:49]  I mean, you came here and said that there's no difference between people and we shouldn't have any cultural boundaries.
[00:01:55]  I think that's awful.
[00:01:56]  I think that's tyrannical and imperialist.
[00:01:58]  Well, my grandfather dropped me off in South Africa.
[00:02:01]  That's why I'm here.
[00:02:02]  My grandfather was British.
[00:02:03]  So I've managed after 13 years to get the visas, to get the passport.
[00:02:08]  I don't call myself British.
[00:02:09]  I'm just a person of this world.
[00:02:11]  I ended up in South Africa.
[00:02:12]  I ended up far away.
[00:02:14]  I happen to have come to this country, but I don't think we should be hull-bent on trying to keep our borders and trying to keep ourselves insular.
[00:02:23]  Oh, no, I don't agree we should be insular.
[00:02:24]  I don't think we need to be, but if I went to another country, if I went to South America or something, I turned up there and I said, right, you've got to erase your borders.
[00:02:31]  This culture is not allowed to be any different to any other culture.
[00:02:34]  You wouldn't be able to get there if they didn't want you there in the first place.
[00:02:37]  And that's what you're trying to say, is you're trying to stop people from freedom of movement.
[00:02:42]  Freedom of choice and where they want to be.
[00:02:44]  You have a door on the front of your house, right?
[00:02:46]  Yes.
[00:02:46]  So why can't I just go and live in your house?
[00:02:50]  Because people own property.

=== Part of British Society (05:56) ===

[00:02:52]  People own things.
[00:02:52]  This is not even a, that is a really silly analogy.
[00:02:55]  No, it's not at all.
[00:02:57]  Not at all.
[00:02:58]  How embarrassing are you to bring up your own family?
[00:03:00]  If we didn't have social services, if we didn't have the NHS, then maybe I'd be inclined to agree with you.
[00:03:05]  But unfortunately, we are a society in this country.
[00:03:07]  We have to, and I contribute as an immigrant.
[00:03:10]  And no one's here.
[00:03:11]  I am currently working in the NHS for six months on a placement for free.
[00:03:14]  I get no money.
[00:03:16]  And I'm not saying that I'm doing that because I'm part of British society.
[00:03:20]  I'm saying I'm doing that because I'm a human being.
[00:03:22]  What's wrong with being a human being as part of British society?
[00:03:26]  Sorry?
[00:03:26]  What's wrong with being a human being?
[00:03:28]  Nothing, I love Britain.
[00:03:29]  I love Britain and I love what we're doing.
[00:03:31]  Why are you trying to erase society?
[00:03:32]  I feel like by delaying to betray all these negative things that you're trying to put out there, why would you want to change this?
[00:03:39]  Look at it.
[00:03:39]  Look at what we've got.
[00:03:40]  I would like it to exist as it is, but the European Union will not allow that to happen because it has all this time till now.
[00:03:46]  This existed before the European Union.
[00:03:49]  Fine.
[00:03:49]  And while it's absolutely.
[00:03:53]  The European Union is the threat to Britain at the moment.
[00:03:56]  Do you understand that they actually have freedom of movement as part of the European Union's mandate?
[00:04:00]  Yes, I'd love to work in France or something.
[00:04:03]  Fantastic.
[00:04:04]  Why do you?
[00:04:04]  Because that will soon be taken away from me.
[00:04:06]  We won't have the right to work in European countries.
[00:04:08]  Well, maybe you can ask them and they'll say yes.
[00:04:11]  Not after we've left, not after we've left.
[00:04:13]  Why?
[00:04:14]  Because we're not allowing them to come here.
[00:04:17]  Why would someone give that up?
[00:04:18]  London is the second largest French city.
[00:04:20]  They will still be able to come here.
[00:04:22]  If they have a certain level of education and a certain criteria of employment.
[00:04:27]  It really depends.
[00:04:28]  I mean, we can set whatever rules for people coming in we like.
[00:04:31]  Absolutely, and so can they.
[00:04:32]  But right now we belong to a system where everybody sets the rules together.
[00:04:36]  Surely.
[00:04:36]  That's because we're betraying ourselves by not leaving.
[00:04:39]  I just find your word betrayal, even the word sounds negative, doesn't it?
[00:04:44]  Well, it is negative, that's why.
[00:04:47]  Life isn't all sunshine and roses.
[00:04:49]  It is.
[00:04:50]  No, it's not.
[00:04:51]  You can choose that, or you can choose to be.
[00:04:53]  There are thousands of young girls being raped in the north.
[00:04:56]  Don't bring gangs.
[00:04:57]  No, you don't want to talk about it because it's happening.
[00:04:59]  It's real.
[00:05:00]  It's happening.
[00:05:01]  Life is not all sunshine and roses.
[00:05:03]  You have to understand that.
[00:05:05]  This kind of idealistic nonsense won't last.
[00:05:08]  And trust me, what comes after me will be way worse.
[00:05:13]  Okay, so what people do when they want to make sure that they can get a shock factor is they come up with something so horrible and nasty.
[00:05:20]  Something that's happening.
[00:05:21]  That's potentially happening.
[00:05:23]  And they use that as a problem.
[00:05:24]  40 people have been arrested in the last two months.
[00:05:26]  And they use fine, fine.
[00:05:29]  But they use that as propaganda to make sure that they are following.
[00:05:32]  What's happening is propaganda.
[00:05:33]  Yeah, but that has got, why?
[00:05:34]  How has that got anything to do with Brexit?
[00:05:36]  Do you believe that those people from India are part of Europe?
[00:05:39]  I don't think they're from India.
[00:05:40]  Or Pakistan.
[00:05:41]  What do you mean?
[00:05:42]  Do I think they're a part of it?
[00:05:43]  They live in Britain.
[00:05:44]  Okay, so who are the rapists that you're talking of?
[00:05:47]  Are you saying they're British?
[00:05:48]  Pakistani Muslims.
[00:05:49]  Pakistani descent.
[00:05:50]  Are these people part of Europe?
[00:05:52]  Well, unfortunately, at the moment, yes.
[00:05:54]  So how are you, by leaving Europe, what is that even, how can you make that association?
[00:05:59]  I didn't say that they were the same thing.
[00:06:00]  You're arguing against the idea of borders anyway.
[00:06:03]  So why wouldn't we want to be able to control?
[00:06:07]  You can control borders being part of Europe if you want to make borders between us and India a little bit tighter.
[00:06:13]  Who do I vote for to do that?
[00:06:14]  Well, quite frankly, this should be beyond politics because when you start bringing rape into it, that's not a political, that's not a political weapon that you should be using.
[00:06:22]  Well, I'm sorry, it's something that's happening, and I'm not going to deny it.
[00:06:25]  Well, it's you should join victim support or something.
[00:06:28]  That's a totally different agenda.
[00:06:29]  Or I could address people who would literally like to ignore them and sweep it under the rope because it's inconvenient for their vision of a perfect world.
[00:06:35]  We're never going to achieve a perfect world, but we might give a good world.
[00:06:38]  I just still think you've completely fallen on your face with that link between Europe and rape.
[00:06:42]  I'm sorry.
[00:06:43]  I didn't say Europe was responsible for it.
[00:06:45]  Whatever it is that you're trying to link up with it, I just think that's what I'm saying.
[00:06:47]  I'm trying to address your utopian worldview.
[00:06:50]  You have a utopian worldview that will never work.
[00:06:54]  You admit you have a utopian worldview.
[00:06:55]  Yes.
[00:06:56]  Okay, but that's silly.
[00:06:58]  You know what?
[00:06:59]  If in reality we can all be happier and live a life where we just do the right thing, that's all it is.
[00:07:06]  It's a bit of a danger.
[00:07:07]  That's what I'm advocating for.
[00:07:09]  You think the right thing is to create hatred.
[00:07:11]  I don't agree that I'm creating hatred.
[00:07:16]  It's everywhere.
[00:07:17]  It's in signage.
[00:07:18]  It's in the way you're talking.
[00:07:20]  It's in the way you're talking about them and us.
[00:07:22]  You're basically trying to divide and conquer between the conquer.
[00:07:26]  Yes.
[00:07:27]  Like you said, Britain was part of this for thousands of years.
[00:07:30]  You know, that conquering attitude.
[00:07:32]  How is that a conqueror that's not afraid of the people who are not?
[00:07:33]  I don't believe British people are like that.
[00:07:35]  I know lots of British people that don't want to remain in that insular political world that you're not going to be able to do that.
[00:07:41]  But they lost.
[00:07:43]  Well, yes, they did.
[00:07:45]  So they deal with it.
[00:07:45]  Based on the information that they had at that time.
[00:07:47]  So they can deal with it if we respect democracy at all.
[00:07:50]  Yes, but it's democracy is quite a beautiful word.
[00:07:54]  You don't want to turn that into hatred and start talking about race.
[00:07:56]  I don't agree that what you think is hatred is hatred.
[00:07:59]  Right.
[00:07:59]  You just hate it.
[00:08:00]  I think it's dealing with reality.
[00:08:02]  And I think that your utopian worldview prevents you from dealing with reality.
[00:08:05]  I'm sorry.
[00:08:06]  It's the reality that you're creating that people don't even.
[00:08:11]  Your reality in the future is going to be worse, though, than what it is now.
[00:08:14]  Unless we take action now.
[00:08:16]  No, we continue like we have been.
[00:08:18]  Britain's a beautiful place.
[00:08:20]  What you're trying to do is you're trying to cut off ties with imports, etc., which might in the end cost us more.
[00:08:26]  That's not true.
[00:08:28]  The living conditions of people here are going to suffer.
[00:08:31]  That's okay.
[00:08:32]  They accept the price.
[00:08:33]  They accept the price.
[00:08:34]  You are happy to pay more for your supermarket shop.
[00:08:41]  There are more important things than money.
[00:08:44]  There are more important things than money.
[00:08:46]  But thank you very much.
[00:08:48]  Thank you very much.