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April 30, 2019 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
09:54
#Gloucester Debates： Is God Real？
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Right, what's your name, sir?
Marcus, good to see you.
Oh, yeah, I've seen you four, yeah, that's right.
Yes, my friend, we are now friends again.
Oh, yeah, we're buddies.
So, yeah, last time I spoke to you about Christianity, so obviously I'm Christian, I believe in creation.
Whether it was seven days or seven million years or whatever, I don't know, but the metaphorical day, yeah.
Yeah, um, but uh, yeah, so I'd like to know what your philosophical, like, sort of attitude on life is, and uh, and do you believe that the universe was created from nothing?
Honestly, I don't know.
I honestly don't know.
I don't think that the religious conception of God is accurate.
I don't think that anyone who claims to have spoken to God or been divinely inspired is telling the truth.
I think they're probably on drugs or something.
No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not even trying to disrespect that position.
You know, I mean, who knows?
You know, I haven't done DMT, but Jamie, pull that up, you know what I mean?
But I just can't persuade myself that that's true.
And so I tend to be rather materialist in this regard, and so I think that evolution explains most of, if not all, of the things that we have around us.
Okay, what's the evidence for evolution?
The fact that things change over time.
Things do change over time, and species do adapt to their surroundings with mutations, but there hasn't been any evidence of one species changing into a completely separate other species.
That's generally because we don't live long enough to see it.
There was an example of an experiment where I haven't got the exact details to mind, but it was a kind of bacteria that they were experimenting on, and they had it in a solution with vitamin C in it or something like that.
And over something like 40,000 generations, the bacteria had modified itself, evolved, to utilize vitamin C in its whatever biological processes it had, which was a direct example of evolution in progress.
So we do actually have evidence for this.
I would call that macroevolution, personally.
Actually, I think that it'd be called microevolution.
I think macroevolution is the evidence of different species.
But the thing is, the question is, if you've got one change like that, then another change like that over another 40,000 generations, it's where you draw the line.
Because really what we see in each individual is a part of an evolution into a new species.
Each life form is a step on the process of evolution, I think.
Right, right.
Well, I mean, personally, I just don't see how all the people around us, all life animals, it has to be intelligent design.
The way that our bodily organs function and cooperate with each other is it's, well, they are.
Well, don't worry about them.
And if you look at flowers and plants, the Fibonacci sequence, it's all mathematical.
It's very, very precise, and it just makes sense.
It's not some sort of random conglomeration of, oh, look, I'm now mitochondria.
Oh, let's photosynthesize and then we'll put an arm here and go over there.
But the thing is, we actually have sort of examples down the evolutionary tree of, like, I mean, for example, there's a kind of flatworm that has a series of light-sensitive cells, and then they become a concave series of light-sensitive cells.
Then it ends up developing, then there is another species that has got a jelly that creates a kind of lens, and then you see the development into the eye, even though it's a remarkably complex organism.
But again, we're talking of the process of billions of years.
Right.
I think it's hard to understand the time scales that we're dealing with.
It's possible that those developments of each stage just are separate species in themselves and that they just seem to work even with the additional organs.
Then you've got the question of why would God create any species with an inferior eye?
Like, why would he do that?
Why would he find one species and give them a series of cells that are just barely sensitive to light?
Then why would he create like an eagle with the world's most advanced eye?
Why would he do that?
Well, survival of the fittest is necessary for our healthy ecosystem.
So, you know, you've got deer, which, you know, they're already running from prey, but then they feed on the mushrooms or like, well, you know, sorry.
Right, so they feed on herbs or grass, right?
They're like vegetarians, yeah.
So it's necessary because obviously plants are the original source of food.
Then you've got the not like prey, but the one before that, I can't remember.
Like, like animals, like, they're non-hostile, right?
Right, so you've got plants, herbivores, predators.
Yeah, yeah, the pyramid, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So it's necessary for a healthy ecosystem, and that's that we get, we, as humans, we get valuable resources like wool from sheep or good meat from cows, and then we can train wolves, use them to our advantage.
Wolves are actually a great example of evolution, aren't they?
Because the human species has actually modified wolves to become dogs.
I wouldn't call that evolution.
Well, of course it is.
Well, how else could it be?
It's just taming a wolf and making it look different.
Yeah, but they're not the same, though, are they?
Like, wolves and dogs, I mean, can they interbreed?
I don't know whether my corgis can make puppies with a wolf.
I've never you could try it.
I think different breeds of dogs do interbreed.
So you could try it with a wolf.
I mean, it might try and eat it, but it would be bad luck for my corgis, wouldn't it?
But the thing is, the problem I have with where you're going with this is that you've got a whole set of other questions that are really difficult to answer.
I mean, you know, why do we have an appendix?
Why do we have like vestigial organs?
Okay, the appendix is necessary.
It maintains the muscle, like it keeps it sturdy.
The muscles around it keeps it sturdy.
Sure, we don't use it for eating grass or anything like that anymore.
But at one point in our history, we probably did, didn't we?
No, it was just there, and God's like, yeah, this supports the muscles, you know.
Why didn't God just make muscle that didn't need support?
Well, because like, well, we need the muscles that are around it, but there's just that bit in the middle that he's like, oh, I just have to fill a hole there, so I'll just put an appendix in there.
Why did he make a hole there in the first place?
He's God.
Well, he didn't make the hole.
It's just that it helps for our symmetry.
But that's an asymmetrical organ.
We've got, what, the appendix?
Yeah, yeah.
It's because of the asymmetrical organ.
There's not an appendix on the other side, is there?
Yeah, yeah, no, there's not.
No, no, so you've got, because you've got like the liver, which is somewhere, but you don't have the liver on the other side.
So you need something to balance it out.
Right, okay.
I guess maybe you do.
Yeah.
But then you get the question of evil.
Where does evil come from if God exists?
Why does he permit evil?
Okay, well, where does evil come from?
Well, it's possible that originally God wasn't exactly perfect and that there was...
God isn't perfect.
God...
No, God himself is perfect, but he was in a universe that wasn't perfect.
He made the universe.
True.
So it's really deep and complex, and I can't really explain it.
You're asking a 17-year-old kid to explain that to you, but listen, right?
Evil, it comes from Satan, it comes from sin because God, we're also part of God's universe, right?
We have our own flesh, our own mind, our own free will, and that's where evil comes from.
And we were persuaded and deceived by Satan.
Yeah, but cancer is not something created by the human mind, and yet that's something that God has put into the universe, surely.
But it's caused by cancer, it's caused by stress or you know, sin.
I don't think in many ways, the wages of sin is death.
Well, I think that's just religious dogma because I mean, like, cancer is mutated cells that form effectively like a new kind of new life that grows on the host organism.
So, I don't think that's necessarily caused by sin, it's just bad luck.
Well, call it bad luck, but sure, it can be bad luck.
Well, God tests us, you know.
So, if you lived a really bad life, you might get cancer.
Like, cancer could be caused by smoking, by eating unhealthily.
Listen, if you are constantly moving around, you will not get cancer.
Because, yes, cancer is caused by sitting down all day, playing video games and eating Doritos.
I don't think that's true.
Yes, it is.
I've known lots of people who have been active, people who've got cancer.
All right, okay, but maybe they were stressed out.
Well, I'm sure they were, but like, why did God allow this?
That's not a good God, isn't it?
Well, I doubt they were religious.
If they were religious, they would go to their pastor and he'd be, okay, I'll pray for that cancer and he'll heal it right there and then, or maybe in a few weeks.
I feel like I'm being trolled.
You're not being trolled.
Honestly, I have witnessed healing.
I have healed someone by praying for them with a fellow Christian.
Okay, well, like I said in the previous one, I'm not interested in taking people's religions away from them.
So, I'll thank you very much.
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