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March 21, 2019 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
42:25
Enemy of the State ｜ Tommy Robinson Interview
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Time Text
Hi everyone, I'm having a sit-down chat with the enemy of the British state, Tommy Robinson.
How are you doing, Tommy?
I'm all right.
I'll probably have another YouTube strike after this.
I've got no doubt.
This is the demonetization of my channel in progress.
It's going to cost you a lot of money this way.
Ah, it is.
It is.
So, speaking of costing a lot of money, what happened with the Cambridge police?
Because as I understand it, you were suing the Cambridge Police for harassing you and forcibly escorting you out of the city while you had done nothing wrong.
And what happened is that the police agreed I'd done nothing wrong.
In fact, Bedfordshire Police were summoned.
When you go to football, you have the home support team, police force, which is Cambridgeshire, and then the away fans, which was Luton.
And they send their lead police officers whose job specifically is to act as intelligence officers for football hooligans.
So when Steve Mason, his name was, when he was summons to court, he stood on the dock and said, when they asked him about myself, they said he's no problem to us.
And did you see him that day?
Yes, I did.
Who did you see him with?
His children were in the pub with him, which the judge later went on to say that he must have been mistaken.
So he swore an oath that my children were with me, that he then saw me outside in the field with my children.
And then he told Cambridgeshire police that I was no problem and no risk and to be left.
And that I wanted to, I was leaving at 7pm anyway after the football.
It was Man United, Man City, Derby.
Cambridgeshire Police ignored his advice.
They ignored the advice of the landlady of the premises, who also went up to them and said, leave them alone.
They ignored that advice and they took it that I was a danger of intent violence, which then made it reasonable and necessary, that's the words, for them to remove me from the city.
So this was effectively an executive judgment on the part of the Cambridgeshire police in the face of advice from the Bedfordshire and the local establishment themselves.
And now I saw the video of what happened and I was quite disgusted, I have to say, by the fact that it seemed that you were being singled out for being who you were, frankly.
You know, it seemed that you, like you say, there were no complaints against you.
And it seems to have been an initiative on the part of the police, specifically to drum you out of the city.
Did you get me to react?
Yeah, I mean, I saw the video and they claimed that they deleted their footage of the event, didn't they?
The next day.
24 hours afterwards, they deleted their footage of the event.
Obviously, and also that they said when it went into court and Cambridgeshire Police, the reason why they said I wasn't targeted because of who I was was because the main officer said he had no idea who I was.
Well, that's a believable story.
Well, and he's policed multiple on dock.
How many English Defence League demonstrations have you policed over the years?
When I was leading the movement, he's policed them.
The first thing on his briefing would have been, this is Tommy Robinson.
But he had no idea who I was.
That's what he gave evidence to.
Even though, and do you know what he took his evidence for the reason he removed me from the city was because a drunk football fan told him Tommy Robinson, his imaginary friend, told him Tommy Robinson's going to cause trouble.
So although he didn't know who Tommy Robinson was, someone told him Tommy Robinson was going to cause trouble, not Mr. Yaxley Lennon or Mr. Lennon.
The whole thing was littered.
You've seen the video, yeah?
Three police officer statements said that I was drunk, disorderly, and continually swearing and abusing them.
It's not one swear word in my entire video.
The Luton police officer, when he was summons, again said he was not drinking alcohol for the record.
I have never drunk alcohol when I'm with my children.
I've never had a beer.
I'm not someone who goes anywhere and has a beer.
I only drink, I only drink to get drunk.
When you're out of the lads?
Yeah, when I'm out of that, I don't drink.
I'm not a social drinker.
I've never had a beer at home in my life.
Never.
So to be sitting there and have three officers trying to imply that I'm drunk, I'm the bad father.
On a video that I felt like more it was me that was being penalised than them.
And in fact, I've got to pay £38,000.
Well, yeah.
So what was the justification for them not having harassed you?
Because like I said, just watching your video, it really looks like they are.
Two separate occasions is the law for harassment.
Right.
So it's okay if they do it twice.
It's okay.
They have to do it the third time.
Right.
Two separate occasions.
That's the law.
So the law on that, the law that we argue mainly was obviously there was me and it was due to my physiological belief, my deep held belief, which she failed to agree.
And the fact that I was targeted.
And the fact that it wasn't reasonable and it wasn't necessary.
Now, there was no trouble.
There was no allegation of any trouble.
There was no problems.
So it wasn't necessary.
The football was finishing at 7 p.m., which is when I said, I'm leaving anyway.
They kept talking to him about you were with this group.
I was with two other dads and five children.
That's it.
It's a family day out.
So what they have agreed, what they've legalized, and essentially as a test case, is anywhere I go now, the police can come up to me, even when I'm with my children, and eject me from the entire sea.
And so you get the history of this.
In 2016, I was taken to court.
I was in France.
The police raided my home.
I'm thinking, what have I done?
I've come home from France.
Police come back to my house.
They come straight to my house.
They put me in court the next day.
The Home Office is in control of a unit called the Football Policing Unit.
Now, so it's governed by the Home Office.
It's not the police, it's separate.
It's a government body.
They took me to court and said that my presence, my presence could provoke reaction.
So because of this, they wanted me banned, not just from France, when the football was on.
And the reason they gave was France has a large Muslim population.
Because France has a lot of Muslims, I'm not allowed to go there.
Basically, that's what they're saying.
And then they, my entire, the entire Muslim community of Luton, the town centre, the train station.
And the Home Office, the head of this policing unit, stood on dock and said, well, who's brought this case against our client?
Because they're not allowed.
Bedfordshire Police.
Okay, so when we got Bedfordshire Police in the dock, and this was all played out in court, when we got Beverly Police in the dock, and said, does Mr. Lennon cause a risk?
And the officer said, since he had a football ban order, because I did have a footballer for swearing in 2012.
So since he's had that ban order, he's sits completely separately with his children in the family stand.
He's done everything he possibly could.
We have no worry of him at all anymore.
We're not bothered by him.
They said, okay, so does he need to be banned from town centre?
No.
Doesn't he be banned from the trade station?
No.
Why are we here?
You're Bedfordshire Police.
Why are we here?
This was put on our desk and we were forced to do it.
And he said that.
And as soon as he said that, the judge just said, and she let me out and she refused him.
But, and her summing up was this case is vague.
The evidence against him, me, by the police, was vague, KG and dishonest.
That cost me £7,000.
She awarded me costs.
The next week, they pulled the costs.
I didn't get the £7,000 back.
So I'm continually fighting these things where it's just to hit you in the pocket anyway.
So although I won, did a winner cost me £7,000.
This time, I knew I wouldn't win.
I knew no judge was going to win.
And do you know what?
This was due to be heard at Cambridge County Court and it was moved the day before to Peterborough.
And I'm sorry, but before this judge, I believe, who from the minute I walked in there, she knew what judgment she was giving.
No one in this country can watch that video that you watched and say that is proper policing and fair policing.
No, I totally agree.
And I mean, it's not the only video I've seen of the police.
I mean, I can only describe it as mistreating you.
One of the things that really bothers me is that the police are founded on, I think it was 10 principles.
The first five of which are essentially a commitment to the neutrality of the police and the institution itself.
And that should be their highest priority.
But we're increasingly seeing a politicization of the police with the sort of like radical left sort of pride flags and things like that.
These are all political statements.
And then I see videos of the police and how they talk to you.
And it's openly disrespectful.
You know, it's totally unprofessional.
And I think they only do it because it's you.
I don't think they talk that way to me.
And it's something that's been a concern of mine for a long time.
Do you know what?
I'd love to come out of here just completely gunning the police and Bedfordshire Police because I've had so many runnings with Bedfordshire Police.
But I couldn't speak highly enough in this case of the fact that police officers from Bedfordshire Police who don't like me actually went completely against the superiors and told the truth on oath.
Which I sat there and was just like, he actually said, do you know what he said?
When the judge said to him, but Mr. Lennon are angry, this is the bed's police officer.
If I was out with my children and police officers come up to me, if I'd committed no crime and done nothing wrong, and they forcibly ejected me from the city, I'd have got a lot more angry than he did.
And he sat there and I just thought, you know, you know what, I actually really respect him.
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
No matter what, because he's been my police officer in my town for years.
But I think that Bedfordshire, in fact, I know, because the next time I went to football after this incident, and my youngest daughter's never been to a football match again, because she got terrified that day.
Now, since then, the first time I went back, Bedfordshire police, all of them come up and apologise, said we're so gutted at what happened and it's so embarrassing for us.
In fact, on the footage we played out in court, one of the loon police officers says this is so embarrassing and walks off.
They didn't want to be part of it.
So there was a divide between Cambridge and so it's so it's orders from the higher ups is what you're saying.
Well in court, in court, they come through.
He said we've been told to remove him from the superior.
And then when we played that out in court, then the bloke who removed me said, no, it's actually, well, he might have told me to, but it's still my decision.
Just like I tell people go out and get 100 arrests today.
That's how he played it.
But yeah.
And then to throw me, anyone who watches that, for the judge to then hit me with £38,000 of costs, £20,000 to be paid in 14 days.
Blindly.
It's being paid.
The public have already met 50% of that.
I don't fear that that payment will be paid.
But I think all of it is to teach me a lesson and to sort of – and my costs were eight grand.
Yeah.
How can theirs be £40,000?
It's the same case.
I wouldn't be able to tell you, but you know that that's also going to be done as part of a chilling effect as well.
No one else can do it.
Yeah, any other activists watching you, they're better have 40 grand just lying around.
They're at 40 grand and better have better CCTV than the evidence I had, which absolutely showed what happened.
So how can you have such a clear-cut, clear black and white case, but yet still lose by a judge?
It was gutting, to be honest.
It was gutting because I went home.
In fact, I played it.
Well, I don't know.
I'll splice it up.
I play my kids.
I went home and spoke to my kids and I recorded them and recorded their reaction.
So I left the phone on the side.
I said, kids, what happened today at Cambridge?
And if you, oh, I can send you it.
Maybe you can go.
Yeah, I'll kind of.
But you can hear the kids talking to him.
But we didn't do anything.
And it's not a good for me, it's a terrible message sent to my children.
That's what angered me more than anything.
Because my kids, and I do bring my kids up to respect the law and believe the police are the good guys.
Of course, even no matter what's gone on, I wouldn't stand and slack and slate the police in front of my children.
But then with this, it's pretty hard to not to.
So let's change tacks somewhat and talk about Mike Stookbury and hope not hate.
Because talk about public enemy number one.
They are obsessed with you.
They talk about you.
He wouldn't have a life if it wasn't for me.
He'd still be sitting on the dial after being fired from being a terrible history teacher.
Yes, he would.
So Mike Stugbury, for anyone who isn't aware, is a middle school teacher who teaches history or taught history and became famous for trying to ban banter in the classrooms.
And since then, he's been trying to ban banter from the entire institute.
I think he said the word banter was extreme or something.
Probably.
The word banter has to be stopped.
He probably, I can't remember the exact terminology he used.
You're aware of his history, like involved in violent demonstrations in his home country.
No, no, no, tell me.
No, so from my understanding, he was involved in violent demonstrations.
I believe he might have been arrested or had a case against the police or something when I was reading through.
And then obviously he's come to our country and he's continued.
And so I don't know if I watched in the House of Commons as anyway, this has happened at my house.
Basically on a Sunday afternoon, I'm on an aeroplane.
My wife gets a phone call saying Antifa.
Oh yeah, before we go any, yeah, so what what so leading leading up to this, what had happened is a semi-famous new atheist called Dick Coughlin had delivered a court summons, wasn't it, to your house and live streamed it via Facebook, which obviously is showing your address or at least the close area of your house.
No, they know they dox the road name, the door number, and the area.
Okay, so they know your address.
Yeah, of where my wife and children are, yeah.
Right.
And yeah, so Dick Coughlin decided to go and deliver this in person.
And so in response to this, you went to Mike Stookbury's house, didn't you?
Yeah.
Was that the wisest thing?
So basically, so on a Sunday afternoon, bearing in mind when you think of fear, on a Sunday afternoon, my children were playing on the drive, and my wife gets a phone call saying Antifa are coming to the house.
Members of Antifa on their way to the house.
My wife gets the kids in the house.
And let me tell you why she's more panicked than what most people would be.
I've got a video going out later where the police have come into my home twice now.
Once they've given her documentation, say she's going to be attacked with acid.
The second documentation they give, and I've recorded it, they name Antifa as an organization who are going to murder us.
They say they've armed themselves with weaponry, with guns.
So my wife's been told all of this.
I'm not in the country.
Then she gets a phone call saying six of them on their way to the house.
She's terrified.
She's locking herself in the house.
She rings the police.
The police come.
Now, there's been a big deal made on their part, but we didn't even go near his wife's house.
We didn't even go near her.
No, because the police were there, because my wife called them.
If they hadn't called them, you would have walked up live streaming my children's faces, my wife, who they are all fully aware is under a death threat and an Osmond warning from the government.
They're all fully aware of these dangers, but yet they chose to do it.
And Mike Stutchbury was one of the people who encouraged this and financed it.
Now, Mike Stutchbury, I've seen described as a journalist.
No, he's not a journalist.
But I've seen Tom Watson, I believe, or members of parliament standing up saying, Tommy Robinson has been intimidating journalists.
They leave out the entire previous part.
Now, you just have to go on Mike Stutchbury's Twitter.
He says, punched and punched and punched them.
He incites violence.
Well, yeah, and just for anyone who's not aware, Mike Stookbury's had a long history of inciting violence towards people he considers to be right-wing, far-right or Nazis, whoever is taking his ire, basically.
They're legitimate targets.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And he has not been shy about openly broadcasting this and his support for Antifa.
Oh, he says he supports Antifa.
He says he's Antifa.
So from my point of view, I've got Antifa.
Police, not some Mickey Mouse message.
The police have sat my family down and told me Antifa are planning to kill us.
I've then, so the history people don't know is that on Christmas Eve, the same people, Antifa, held flags outside of my family's home multiple times.
So I've had all these Osmond warnings, all these death threats to do with Antifa.
Then Antifa coming to the house.
Then I found out Mike Stutchbury sent them to the house.
And I'm looking at all this.
And I look at Dick Coughlin, the man that's come to where my babies are.
And I look at him.
He's an ex-crackhead, or he is a crackhead.
I go through his history of his comments.
I don't know if you read the message he put up.
No, no, no.
He put up saying about, he made comments about fucking my wife in her eye socket.
Sounds like Dick Coughlin, yeah.
He then said that my children were put for a meat grinder.
Yep.
And then my house was set on fire with my family whilst he violently masturbated.
Yeah, he is somewhat of an edgelord.
Okay, so he made this comment, but then at the end he said, and there's only a half truth in that.
So I'm reading someone making these comments about my children and about my wife.
And I'm looking at this and I go back through his history and I see him making the most racial comments, racist, extreme comments.
Anyone could imagine nothing like, it's like, we're a bit of a child.
Nothing that you say.
And I just think this is a radical extremist man who's been sent to live stream my family's home whilst I'm out of the country, which they knew.
Their comments, when you go through what they were saying, they knew I wasn't there.
So they've purposely gone to where my wife and children are to intimidate and cause fear, which they succeeded in.
So I sat at home the next day just thinking, I'm Mike Stutchbury.
I know where, I've known where he lives for a long time.
I've never gone near his house.
I've never caused him alarm or distress.
I've never tried to.
And at this point, I thought, do you know what it was?
It was at my children.
I got off the plane.
I had all these messages.
My phone going mad.
I had a message from my son saying, Dad, help, quick, you need to get home.
And I hang around about that.
Do you know what I'm even now thinking about?
So I'm sitting there and my kids are scared.
Scared.
They're having to move.
They're having to move out of their home.
Out of their bedrooms.
Out of where they go out of where they, what is their home?
And I'm thinking, it's because of this journalist who incites hate, who has then sent people to docks a family's home.
And then, and that's what, so then I just thought, I'm going to go and speak to him and see how he thinks it's acceptable.
And I went completely on my own.
Just so people know, when they come to my family's home, there were six of them.
Six of them with a pit bull dog.
They had a pit bull dog and they had balacars on.
Two of them had their faces covered.
I've got pictures of them with their faces covered.
So I think I went completely on my own, barefaced, and I knocked at his door to say, Mike, come on, mate, explain how you think this is acceptable.
Mike in this has played the victim.
Oh, completely.
Every mainstream journalist knows who they sent to my house, how they acted, what he says.
They've just completely ignored all of that and they've used it as a battering ram against me.
Essentially, I probably walked into it by going to the house.
I think you did.
I mean, you did give them exactly the kind of fodder that they need.
And we knew that they were going to be entirely one-sided and act as if Mike Studbury is a completely innocent boy and he did nothing wrong.
Yeah, and that's the complete opposite of the truth.
He is inciting violence on a regular basis on his Twitter feed.
And I just want to address the people calling him a journalist.
He is not a journalist.
He has written something like four opinion pieces for the Huffington Post and the Independent.
That does not a journalist make.
That's like a propagandist.
So let's go on to your deplatforming from Facebook and Instagram.
What happened leading up to that?
Were you given any warning or any signal or anything like that?
No.
So they say, I've read the news reports that I was warned a month before I was on the final warning.
Not that I'm aware of.
I've also, so I still don't know what they've removed me for.
Well, sorry to interject, but I actually, I know what they're claiming they removed you for, which I'm sure you've seen.
But for anyone who didn't know, there was a BBC article published where you had apparently incited violence on many occasions.
You had apparently told people who follow you to behead people who follow the Quran and various other kind of death threats like that.
Now, these were supposed to have been done months ago.
They could have made it believable, though.
Yeah, I don't find that.
I mean, I assume that, I mean, would you like to confirm or deny those allegations?
The maddest thing is the amount of journalists who follow me, the amount of people who pick for one bit of dirt, if I'd have made one comment like that, it would have been everywhere.
I'd be in prison.
Yeah, well, it's illegal.
And I'd never say it anyway.
I'd never say it, but head those who follow the Quran.
I'd never say it.
So I'd be in prison.
I haven't said it.
I have no idea what they're talking about.
And I have no idea what they're saying was the reason to remove my page.
In my view, and my eyes, we saw the post from Mohammed Shafiq, who's an Islamist, who's friends with Nick Clegg.
Yep.
Nick Clegg.
Who happens to be a big boy at Facebook?
Global Communications Director, I believe, at Facebook.
And it would come 24 hours after the Panadrama documentary.
Weird timing, this, isn't it?
And we've seen since this, even YouTube now, I think Panadrama on theirs had 1.6 million views.
And even on YouTube, Tom Watson and the Conservative Party, Labour and the Conservatives, are both lobbying hard.
So Labour deputy leader Tom Watson actually actively called for your censorship, didn't he?
From YouTube, despite the fact that YouTube obviously have said you've broken none of their rules.
Giving no evidence.
He gave no evidence, just lots of accusations of how I have to be removed.
And to be honest, for me, I was removed from Twitter.
I was removed from PayPal.
Both Twitter was for stating a fact, so no hate speech.
PayPal, no reason given.
Now with Facebook and Instagram, I look now and don't see how people don't understand where we're going here.
I'm being completely unpersoned.
Yes.
What's next?
My mobile phone contracts?
Your banking contracts?
My bank account.
No, it's coming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's already here.
I mean, Martina Marcota is a conservative goth performer and she had a Chase Manhattan bank account just shut down just on the grounds of being a conservative, an outspoken conservative, presumably.
They won't be happy until...
And what this is about is now all of these people can sit on these platforms, all these politicians, and before I would have retweeted a comment and said, and give the truth, I would have given my response.
They don't want me to have any avenue or any platform to even respond to their lies.
And they're very vocal about it.
I mean, it's actually MPs who are lobbying to get you de-platformed from Silicon Valley.
Yeah, so people can't say it's not political.
I don't know if you've seen the video.
It's expressly political.
Nasshah, have you seen the video of Freemasonshah, other Labour MPs?
They sat down with the CEO of YouTube and they're grilling him at me.
Grilling him about my videos and how I incite murder and terrorism.
No, I haven't been tried for any of these crimes.
I give my opinion and I've never broke the law.
I've never been arrested for any race, crime, hate crime.
You don't have any hate crime convictions?
Never even been arrested.
So you're actually a better boy than Count Dankular is.
Yes.
Extremist.
Yeah, that bloody.
Oh, he's abandoned that.
No, but seriously, so the evidence for deplatform from Facebook never materialized.
It was a bunch of allegations.
Well, make some screenshots of it.
Exactly.
And this is what I said.
Like the day it happened.
I was like, look, because they were accusing, they were alleging that this happened a month ago and they'd sent you warnings.
And I'm like, if, I mean, I followed your Facebook and social media, obviously, or I did.
And if, I mean, A, I never saw anything like that, but B, I know that if any single... I hate...
Exactly, exactly.
Hope not hating like your personal biographers at this point.
You know, they follow absolutely every single little thing you do.
If you'd posted anything that even hinted around that sort of subject, that would have been it.
It would have been everywhere.
It would have been worldwide news.
I've been arrested.
Exactly.
You would have been arrested.
Yeah, absolutely.
Rightfully so.
And so it just looks like a political hit.
And then you've got the MPs saying the whole world got told that.
Yeah.
And then you've got the MP saying we want his last big social media presence is taken off as well.
It's like, well, how can anyone interpret this other than in any way other than just open censorship by the US by the UK government?
Open censorship and complete fascism.
Yeah.
Complete, politically motivated fascism to remove people and dissident voices from all platforms.
And social media, people say it's a private company.
That's a bit more than that now.
It's part of everyday life for everyone.
I can't even look at what my kids are up to on Instagram.
Do you know what I mean?
Most people, what families do?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I can't.
And if you're saying I've done that on Facebook, what are you saying I've done on Instagram?
Yeah.
Well, this is another thing.
People are saying, well, Facebook owns Instagram, so there's no problem.
You know, they're allowed to take them off both platforms.
It's like, yeah, well, they're separate platforms with separate terms of service.
So exactly.
So they're WhatsApp as well.
Yeah, exactly.
It's just because you're a political inconvenience former.
That's how it seems.
It's an embarrassment for them.
Yeah.
And that's all very.
I actually believe it's dangerous, very dangerous.
There's 1.2 million people following me on Facebook.
I had the most engagement out of anyone in the country on a Facebook page.
Now, they're not just silencing me by doing that.
They're silencing.
I watched your video, good video, on the fact that anyone who's making a comment about me is being removed and being told to take it down and delete it.
Even just a picture of me.
That's some unbelievable level of censorship.
Well, I mean, since we're getting onto the subject of fascism and open fascism by our government and apparently New Zealand's government now, I mean, that is just, I can't even like Adolf Hitler has a massive platform on social media right now.
You know, you can buy his books from Amazon.
You can talk about all of Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, you know, Twitter.
It's everywhere.
Adolf Hitler is not hard to find.
Tommy Robinson is considered worse.
Well, Amazon bent my book.
Yeah.
And yet you've got Mein Kampf.
Yeah.
Do you know what that is?
Because they don't feel, you know, the Nazis, the real Nazis, the real white supremacists.
Any of the comments they're putting on Twitter, they're not bothered by them because they're not going to get a following.
Because no one's going to, when you've got someone, whether it be ourselves, when you've got someone who's genuinely moderate, I think, hold on, he's going to connect with people with this.
That's why they're the people that have to be silenced.
They know we're not extremists, but we're the people that might wake people up.
Well, that's why we've got the big audiences and people like Richard Spencer don't.
Because we're moderate.
Exactly.
I mean, like, if you look at Richard Spencer, he's been interviewed by The Guardian, Vice, all the major sort of left-wing outlets.
They all had him on, you know, to interview him, to talk about what he believes.
They won't have you on to talk about what you believe.
None of them.
You know, even like Nick Frat, I see all these.
So as my right to reply, if you're all going to sit and talk about me, just have me on.
What's the problem?
Yeah.
Why wouldn't you just have me on?
If you're going to base some whole shows, when I listen to some entire shows, the entirety of your radio show or your broadcasting show is to talk about me.
But not to you.
Why don't you just sit me there and let me have my opportunity to tell you what my views are rather than you tell the world what my views are and how much and how extreme I am?
Well, I mean, this is the thing because, I mean, weren't you arrested in 2013 for punching a Nazi?
20.
Actually, I'll say it was 2011.
Was it 2011?
Was it?
2011, Sarate.
Yeah, tell me.
English Defence League.
Yeah.
We had the nationalist organisation.
It attracted the unwanted as well.
Of course.
Now, we told the police continually, don't want them here, don't want them here, don't want them here.
Stop them coming in.
Yeah.
They didn't.
I then made a judgment, which this was my hot-headed judgment, which I do many times.
I made a judgment.
And in fact, it's quite funny because we had this lad called Tom Costello who was filming the channel for a documentary called Proud and Prejudice.
It was the first time he'd come and met me.
And I always on a wind-up.
So I'd got a bottle of vodka and I'd filled it with water.
And when I come to meet him outside the coach, I come out of the shop, I open up the bottle of vodka, I licked it, which was water, I threw the bottle and I said, now I'm ready for the demo.
And all the lads stand there and he's standing there just thinking, who is this lunatic?
Who is this lunatic?
And only about a year later, I told him, remember that bottle of water?
I said, yeah, I said, it was water.
He said, oh, but, and then we've gone to the demo.
And he said, what's going to happen today?
I said, today we call it on.
Yeah.
And I got on stage and he watched a speech and I hold up a seat lad's hand and I say, this is the English Defence League.
Yeah.
This.
We don't care about the colour of your skin.
Now, there's people within this crowd, which I'm fully aware of because I've been following you.
You've set your own little splinter groups up within our movement and you have a completely different agenda to us.
So I'm now going to call you out.
And I started listing their names.
I said, show yourself.
Show yourself.
And one of the men I was looking for was a lad called Alan Smith.
And I've come off the stage and then I've done that and I've noticed loads of them coming towards us.
And I've come off the stage and just flattened him.
I stuck the head.
But he had a combat 18.
Essentially, I was leader of the street protest movement.
We had tried everything else.
And I don't want to stand with them people.
I never will.
And then when I come back to the coaches, they were waiting with corkscrews and bottles.
And there was a massive fight.
And this little, he was an anarchist, the cameraman for Channel 4.
When he got on the bus, we all got on blood all over us.
We'd just been, and he just said, I can't believe it.
And I said, well, he goes, you're fighting the far right.
I said, yeah.
And he just said, my friends are not going to believe this.
And when I looked up, he was actually quite an active far-left movement activist.
And he lived in a house with seven people and there was two gay people.
And it was just this London living house.
And he said, they're never going to believe this.
I said, no, because you just think.
And do you know the media told everyone?
English Defence League fight each other.
No, English Defence League was kicking out the far right.
And do you know what?
It actually worked.
So after that day, I said, I have things to do as a leader.
And at that moment, I'd done it.
And a lot of people thought it was the wrong thing and it was violent.
And I said, we need to challenge these people.
They need to know they're not welcome with us.
And it worked.
From that point on, you see these groups.
So whenever you hear these, you heard that you had the English Defence League, then you had the Northeast Infidels, the Northwest Infidels, the Southeast Alliance.
Each one of these groups were people that I kicked out.
And if it had to be physically kicked down to say, you're not coming in on.
And the reason why I do that is because my upbringing and where I'm from and many of the people I love are black.
And I would never be able to walk around my hometown with my head held up if I ever tolerated any white pride bullshit or any of their agendas.
So I've took, and when I say, I say to the these anti-racist, I've done more to take on racism and extremism than any of them.
I've burned their Nazi flags.
I've made a video.
I remember I come out and I called it on with blood and honour.
I called it on with blood and honour.
I'm not Nick the Nazi from Germany.
I called it on with him.
I've called it on with all of them.
You were punching Nazis before it was cool.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
Because, I mean, if Mike Stugbury must be a big fan of your early work.
They've all got their own agenda.
Yeah.
But they'll never talk about that.
No.
They'll never talk about it.
You know the media.
So Lee Rigby gets killed.
I'm giving my speech to 10,000 people in Newcastle at the height of any tensions.
They never, first thing I said is, there's 600 Muslims serving in the British Armed Forces.
They're doing a hell of a lot more for this country than I am or any of you standing here.
If you go out and abuse a Muslim woman right now, you're an absolute coward.
You attack a mosque, you're a moron.
They never would, what they'll pick a little 10 seconds of a video from three 10 years ago, 12 years ago, and they'll portray this image, which I said, that's not how it is.
That's not how it's been.
No, I believe you.
And so coming on to the Christchurch massacre, now I saw the journalists, I can't remember which outlet they were from, but they were asking you whether you felt that you were in some way implicated in that.
And I mean, I thought your response was pretty sound.
Did he mention you?
He wrote a 38-page manifesto.
It's the same with, look, it's the same with Darren Osborne.
Darren Osborne tells everyone why he'd done it.
He tells everyone why Target, that day he was trying to go for the Al-Quds march, a terrorist march where they raved terrorist banners.
Sadiq Khan, just part and parcel of living in a big city.
Frustrations have been allowed to build up.
Now, when you, and I've said, you can go back to before Darren Osborne, before any of these attacks from the far right, I remember standing saying, in five years' time, you will have English suicide bombs.
Because what you're doing is when we give people an answer, which is the democratic process, you're angry, vote here.
You don't even want them to have that.
You have a platform, a healthy center for debate to discuss these issues, which are real concerns, real fears from real people that they're seeing in their everyday life.
I mean, we're talking about terrorism here and grooming gangs.
Terrorists, rape sisters.
Of course, these are real fears.
You need to be able to talk about them.
They want to take that ability.
But as I said, people who follow me, 1.2 million people on Facebook, will now be sitting there thinking, well, hold on.
Where do I discuss this?
We can't discuss...
Who's talking for me?
Well, he's gone.
So he's not speaking to me now.
He's gone.
And the censorship on all these levels, it's dangerous.
The more you remove these things, because then you get people, when we're trying to convince people, do you know after Levik B's death, I had a contact with someone from the Home Office where I offered to do a TV appeal to tell people not to do anything stupid.
Not to do anything stupid, not to react violently.
That these problems can be solved.
They're taking all those ways away.
They are, I say we talk about radicalising factors.
You're radicalising.
The left, the far left, the politicians trying to silence debate, all of those people are radicalising.
And they will, you see a monster, whether it be in Darren Osborne or whether it be in Brevik or whether it now be in, I don't even know this dude's name, whether it even be in the New Zealand attack, yeah.
Those men have all told you why they've done it.
Each one of them has given a detailed reason why they've done it.
You ignore that.
You ignore that.
So yeah, the increased censorship on social media, I mean, I consider that to be fascist behaviour.
And it seems that the shooter in Christchurch is basically turning New Zealand fascist.
Like there was a young lad who's facing 14 years in jail for sharing the stream or sharing memes.
They've blocked dissenter 4chan and attempted to get personal details from Kiwi Farms, all this sort of thing.
And the government is going in some sort of full lockdown mode about even discussing this.
I mean, many of them think you can use circumstances like this to get rid of opposition.
Many of them, I don't know about the situation in New Zealand, but that's what they're doing here.
That's what they're doing here.
Get rid of him, silence him, take that, enforce this law, take more freedoms away from them.
Taking guns?
I mean, like, this whole thing is just going to change New Zealand's gun laws.
You see what he said?
And that's exactly what he wanted.
He wanted it.
Exactly.
He wanted them to take the guns.
He wants them to take the guns in America.
He wants to cause the vibe between left and right.
He wants censorship.
Because he knows that censorship drives people underground.
Censorship makes people angry.
Censorship is a radicalising factor.
And you can bet your life now that there's a lot of people who have been watching what's happening, even with myself.
And it's radicalising.
It's not me radicalising them.
And another thing is that everyone thinks it's the sort of like internet meme culture that's caused this.
It's like, no, it hasn't caused this.
The guy was very clear in his manifesto.
He was radicalised by visiting France and watching the result of mass immigration in France.
That was what radicalised him.
He's very anxious.
Probably, I don't know, he says that he was there for the election in France.
40,000 Twitter accounts were deleted that supported Le Pen.
Yeah, Le Pen herself is facing criminal prosecution for talking about ISIS.
For sharing ISIS propaganda and saying, look, this is what they're saying.
He saw no, he saw, he says at the point of going to France, that's when he saw no peaceful solution.
That's why he become violent at that time.
Now, what I worry at is there's a hell of a lot of people.
When you read his manifesto, well, there's millions of people that think how he thinks without the violence, that agree and say that's logical, that's logical, that's logical, all of these, all of these things that are happening across Europe that he's seeing, everyone else is seeing.
When you take away the solution, well, I mean, his proposals, his solution, the accelerationist agenda to effectively cause the West to fall in civil war.
Obviously, that's a terrible thing to do, right?
But that doesn't mean the things he's seeing aren't valid, because that's the main problem that I have.
The vanishing factors.
Absolutely.
But there are so many people who are saying, well, there are no consequences to mass immigration.
This hasn't changed anything.
What are you so worried about?
It's like, look, all of the statistics he was citing are just uncontroversial.
You know, they're uncontroversial statistics.
I mean, the left often, when they think they're in a safe place to do it, they'll crow about the wonderful increased immigration to the West and how it's going to change us forever and things like that.
So, well, you can't expect there to be no pushback.
And when you take out moderate voices from saying, look, there are real consequences to all of this immigration, then you end up with the only option being radical accelerationism.
You take free speech away, which is what you're in the process of doing, which is actually what you've done.
You take free speech away, the only solution to leave people is.
There's nothing else.
There's nothing else.
There's no other option.
So I'm seriously, I said when I saw I heard of another attack the other day, every time there's going to be one, there's going to be more and more.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And essentially, that's everything we've been trying to stop.
Yes.
But then somehow they'll use it to beat us down.
Well, it's somehow going to be our fault because we've got a commitment to the democratic process and to free speech.
And look, when this happened, I went to an event the next day and people were talking about, should I be saying that?
Should you say that?
Should you talk openly and honestly about Islam in the wake of what's just happened?
Yes.
Yeah.
Of course I should.
I'm not encouraging violence against anyone.
And no matter what happens anywhere, it's not going to deter me from stating the facts and the worries and the fears of the reality that our country is going to find itself in.
Everything I say and do is to prevent the situation that he was trying to provoke becoming a reality when I've got three children growing up in this country.
Yeah, I mean, like, people have got to remember that when someone goes on a violent massacre like this, it's us that end up getting punished as if we haven't been openly saying, please do not commit violence because it hurts us.
You know, we want to.
And it doesn't just get punished.
Like, basically, what I believe they're doing, what I believe the media have been participating in, is building me up as the next Adolf Hitler, which is complete miles away from who I am.
But just like Pim 14 or just like a situation in Holland years ago, someone will think they're doing something good by killing me.
And by doxing my address at the same time as doing all of this, which was a far-left organisation called Resisting Hate, working with an Islamic lawyer, giving out my address to the entire country to tell, basically telling people here's where he is, come and get him.
And I think it's only a matter of time before someone does.
Honestly, if someone were to attack you and murder you, Mike Stugbury would be crowing about it on Twitter.
He'd be pleased with that.
Oh, I know.
Yeah, I know, I know.
No, not just Mike Stuggbury.
Oh, the whole gang of them.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think some of our political club, I think, Tom Watson would be cheering.
They would.
Yeah.
They would.
It's fucking awful.
And that's built on a.
What they build that on is on lies.
Sometimes I meet people and when I sort of sit and talk to them, they're just like, you're not how I expected you to be.
I said, well, in what sense?
I expected you to be a lot rougher.
Yeah, kind of a bit, actually.
I did.
I was when I was younger.
Yeah.
Wow.
We weren't when they were younger.
So where do you reckon this is all going?
What do you think the end result of all this is?
End result Islamic dominance.
Really?
Where they're taking it.
Well, I mean, the New Zealand Prime Minister has been enjoying her headscarf a lot recently, hasn't she?
May as well as fully converted.
They're taking us down a path where they're removing all dissident voices, whether you like it or not, whether it be Alex Jones, whether it be me, whether it be Milo.
The thing that I find unbelievable, I've committed no crime.
I've broke no law.
I've had no arrest.
I've been removed from PayPal, from Twitter, from Facebook, from Instagram.
There's now a campaign orchestrated and organized to have me removed from YouTube.
I will be removed from society completely for speaking openly and honestly about Islam and the effects it has on this country.
That's it.
If I'd incited, if I'd caused hatred, I'd have been arrested and tried for it.
We have strict laws already that govern this country that prohibit people from inciting violence or inciting hatred.
So I clearly haven't done any breached any of those laws.
You can't take reality, truth, facts as hate speech in order to get your way of what you want and see a country the way you want it and then just silence all opposition to it.
So unfortunately, I think that when people see we can't vote our way out of this because they're closing that down, as you've just said, UKIP shared something.
It's been removed from Facebook.
Look at this.
I actually, so yeah, while recording this, we were just informed that someone was sharing a UKIP video in which we discussed Tommy.
In fact, Facebook gave that person a three-day ban from the platform for sharing that, which there we go.
I just think that it's worrying more than anything.
The whole situation, when you look around with Brexit, especially, you're going to, at the end of censoring everyone, taking away their voices, telling everyone they're not allowed to say this, you can't do that.
You're an extremist, you're a racist.
Oh, and by the way, you don't have democracy.
It's not good.
It's not good.
You know, it's where's that going to go?
I don't know how much you think the public will take.
And somehow I'll be blamed.
Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Cheers, man.
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