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Aug. 9, 2016 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
37:31
The Meeting of Two Brilliant Minds
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Time Text
Alright, welcome to uh Young Turks live coverage of the DNC.
Okay, I don't want to be too loud.
Alright, Laurie Penny's joining us.
Oh wow.
The stars have aligned and two great minds have come together.
I think we're in for a rare treat.
Laurie Penny wrote the best article I've read in a long time.
How's that for an introduction?
Mine too, Cheng.
It was, why do we give robots female names?
Because we don't want to consider their feelings.
But the fact that that makes it sound like Laurie Penny is white-knighting for the hurt feelings of mindless automatons isn't the funniest part about the article.
The funniest part is her conclusion.
Alan Turing, the father of robotics, was concerned that thinking machines could be exploited because they were not sentient in the way that real human beings are sentient.
And this is the really good bit.
We still have not decided, as a species, that women are sentient.
And as more and more fembots appear on our screens in our stories, we should consider how our technology reflects our expectations of gender.
But don't worry, Chenk, I'm sure you didn't read the same article I read.
She does write an awful lot of nonsense.
But I just want to warn you that this booger-eating lunatic thinks Western society treats women as well as it treats robots.
So for God's sake, whatever you do, don't order her to give up her right to vote and go and make you a sandwich.
Give me a thank you.
Give me a thank you for feminists for getting your right to vote.
Otherwise, stop voting and go make me a ham sandwich.
And it's called I'm With the Band.
It was on Medium, or at least where I read it, Laurie.
Oh, that's the one where she splooshed out about Rouche V at the Republican National Convention.
She's an author and journalist from the UK, and it was about her time spent with high-profile trolls.
Oh, Chenk, stop being so dismissive.
No one's going to be like, yeah, yeah, these people are actually professional trolls.
Not even Laurie Penny.
Yep.
These are people who are, that's their job.
They're professional trolls.
I stand corrected.
And I want to talk to you about what you wrote in the article.
I also want to get a little deeper than that.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
At least it's consensual.
For the people at home who did not read it, although they should, and we'll provide a link in the description box.
Oh, I will too.
And you should read it as well because it's really hilarious to hear Laurie Penny virtue signal over and over and over that she's not friends with Milo Yiannopoulos.
What's it about?
So it's about this big gay Republicans for Trump party which was held at the DNC about a week ago, a week ago today, and I got a VIP invite from Milo Yiannopoulos.
oh that is that is brilliant Who organised the thing?
Who is a professional alt-right troll dude?
Troll being the new word for provocateur, but yeah, he is.
And do you know why?
Do you know why these people are so successful against you?
Who are kind of, I wouldn't call us friends or even really frenemies.
Uh-huh.
But we know each other.
Well enough for you to accept VIP tickets to Republican parties from, apparently.
And he found out I was going to be at the DNC and I said, hey, are you going to be there?
And he said, yeah, you should come to my big gay fascist rally and write about it.
And you thought, yeah, I will go to a big gay fascist rally.
And I notice that you're saying all this as if you're making excuses for yourself.
But do you remember that you said that you asked him if he was going to be there?
He didn't contact you first.
You sound like you were angling for an invite to the big gay fascist rally.
And it sounds like you were using a presumed friendship to do it.
I can see why you sound so scared, Laurie, because when the other feminist activists on Twitter find out your buddy buddy with their arch nemesis, ooh, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy, would they?
You sound like you're genuinely nervous your community is going to outright reject you.
So let's break that down a little bit.
That guy, we don't mention his name on there because that's the only thing he cares about.
I love how obedient and conformist Laurie's being here.
She knows she crossed the line with Chenk going and talking to Lord Voldemort.
And that's okay.
That's what the article's about.
That's okay.
And it was a great article.
And so I'm just going to call him Nemo, you know?
No?
So you found Nemo?
Yeah, I did find Nemo.
That's not funny, and that doesn't make any sense.
It's like when you call Donald Trump loser Donald.
You could literally pick on any feature of Trump other than his level of success because he's a fucking billionaire and that's retarded.
Calling Milo, no, Nemo, what, a lost child?
When he's hosting a massively successful party at the Republican National Convention that your guest had to angle an invite to is just nonsensical, Chenk.
But what I was not a thousand percent clear on is, was everyone at the party gay Republicans?
Or was it just that he's a gay Republican or a gay conservative?
Or like it was thrown by a cadre of gay conservatives, but like it was other conservatives who were like, oh, they're gay and we're cool with it and let's just go be trolls together.
Translation, who is Chenk allowed to hate in this situation?
Because if he just hates on the entire party, he might be guilty of homophobia.
Well look, it was people who have hijacked the vague idea of LGBT rights and yoinked it on to this Islamophobic, racist, anti-liberal, anti-feminist agenda they have and decided that that's their thing now.
I'll tell you what, this fembot might not be able to make sandwiches, but she does a lovely buzzword soup.
Gay rights is sort of their thing, although they had some really bad things to say about transgender bathrooms.
How's transgender bathrooms gay rights?
But yet there were people there.
I talked with another guy, a professional troller, who started getting into a serious argument with me because I said that it was okay for gay people to adopt, which didn't seem to be on message.
That's right, Johnny 5.
There are other units in the world that have different opinions to you.
But as a supporter of gay rights, shouldn't you just be happy that they're normalizing homosexuality to conservatives?
Nobody was really on message.
Whereas here, everyone's on message.
Translation, please don't ostracize me for fraternising with the enemy.
Alright, that's what they have.
Yeah, but you know, that's partly as you described an article, because there is no message.
The message is irrelevant.
And that's how little you think of them, isn't it, Cenk?
It's not that they believe something that you think holds little to no value.
It's that they don't believe anything at all.
Talk about dehumanization.
Hey, Laurie, I think I've got a new article for you.
How Cenk reduces Republicans to the status of robots.
The only thing that's relevant is attention.
That's their only currency.
Is that right?
Yep.
Well, I suppose Laurie would know if anyone would.
Yeah, and they are very similar to Donald Trump in that way.
You know, that's what wins in this kind of political climate.
Oh, what?
The climate of fear and social persecution that the regressive left have created?
You know, the one where people aren't allowed to speak their own minds anymore.
And so you can't understand why they're flocking to people whose message is, I will say what you want to say and damn the consequences.
We have moved past the point where making reasonable arguments in a very sensible way has any emotional pull anymore.
That's racist.
No, wait, it's Islamophobic.
No, it's misogynistic.
No, no, no, no, no.
It's homophobic.
That's what it is.
That's the extent of your reasoned arguments.
And reasoned arguments aren't meant to make an emotional pull on people.
They're meant to make a rational one.
All you're saying here is that you don't know what to do when appeals to emotion stop working.
I kind of understand that, but the left has no real equivalent of these people who they just don't care about anything.
Well, that's really coincidental, Megatron, because this is what people on the left have been saying about the regressive left for years.
You've just abandoned everything that's important.
Freedom of speech, no, fuck that.
Individual rights, no, fuck it, we'll have collectivism.
A reasoned discussion on the facts of the issue?
Don't be a racist.
I don't know if he believes half of the things he says.
I don't know if anybody there.
No, actually, I think about half of them do.
Some of them do, and that's really frightening because they're very gullible, and they will follow anybody who has good hair and a nice way of putting things and promises them power.
Hang on, C3PO.
Are we talking about SJWs?
We're talking about Milo's gay party.
But it's it's a really really frightening tendency.
Oh, I've got no doubt that you think this is frightening.
Because all of your power comes from denigrating other people.
And now they're turning around and saying, look, we simply don't care what you say about us.
So yeah, you're going to find that fucking frightening because that's your power withering away.
which is why you are concerned with their power growing.
Yeah, so since their currency is attention, it is totally irrelevant whether it's good attention, bad attention, whether they win the argument, or whether they even care about their own argument, or whether they even know their own argument.
Listen you lunatics, I'm going to put it in terms you can understand.
You have been oppressing these people.
I know you think you've been doing it for good reasons.
And I know you don't think these people can be oppressed, but they feel oppressed by you.
And you need to take some responsibility for that.
You calling them racist and trying to shame them, get them fired, get them removed from the public discourse has led to this point.
You have cried, Wolf, too many times.
Nobody cares if you call someone a racist.
Because you call everyone a fucking racist.
Or Islamophobe or homophobe or misogynist or whatever.
You are preying on people's better natures.
Say, hey, look, you don't want to be a racist, Islamophobe, homophobe, sexist, do you?
No, and if you don't want to be these things, you'll do as I say.
And it was so diabolically easy.
All you had to do was open your mouths.
In fact, I think it was so easy, you didn't even realize you were oppressing people.
No, no, they just say whatever they think is going to play best.
Right.
Like Trump, he just says whatever he thinks is going to play best with his body.
He's not got an agenda.
His agenda is Donald Trump for president.
That's the only thing he believes.
Well, Commander Data, I think I'm going to have to call your mind-reading skills into question because that doesn't make any sense.
Power itself is never the end goal.
It's the means to reach the end goal.
You don't want power just for the sake of having power.
You want power to affect the changes you want to see in the world.
They do exactly the same as you.
But again, if you can just dehumanize them into having no beliefs, no fears, no concerns of their own, then it's so much easier to say they are just horrible people and it's okay to hate them.
And that makes him more dangerous than a lot of people out there, even in his own party.
To you.
They are very dangerous to the regressive political class who's seeing losses on all fronts.
Trump's ahead in the polls, Brexit, the right wing rising in Europe.
It's all going horribly wrong and it's because you have been oppressing these people.
You have been keeping them down.
So my assess with Nemo and his cadre is that they found a niche.
They're like, oh, if we're gay and we're super right wing, people will be like, oh, that's interesting.
That's a weird new thing.
Yeah, let's run with that.
then we can be kind of super fabulous and hang around with bodyguards and you know it's just something you have absolutely zero understanding of These people have found a niche and their niche is destroying you.
This niche exists because in the culture wars, you have become the evil empire.
They have become the plucky rebels everyone's rooting for.
And have you not noticed how much fun everyone is having at your expense?
It's all theatre.
It's a cabaret act.
It is.
Just like your feminist slut walks, your gay pride parades, your Black Lives Matter demonstrations.
You recognise it so clearly because it's exactly what you do.
But what is um what's fascinating is that Americans don't seem to get it in the same way.
There is this sincerity to American culture.
To anybody British, even if you don't know the guy from before, it's instantly obvious what's going on.
Well, it is true that we are just a better class of person, but this is also my problem with you and yours.
So don't go pointing fingers.
Like, it's completely obvious.
And I was just stunned by how many people really think that he's serious and that some of the other people there are serious.
It's just, no, it's obviously a show.
There's much more of that kind of performative jousting in British political culture.
Don't get me wrong, this is true.
But that doesn't also mean they don't believe in what they're doing.
I don't like it, but it is a really big part of the discourse.
So I want to get back to the serious part of that and why that's a big problem in a second.
But yes, there's an earnestness here in America where they're legitimately getting into a debate with them.
I'm going to mix a whole bunch of analogies here, but so it's as if the rest of the reporters or the people in the media think that they're in a wrestling match, but in reality, these trolls think that they're in a violence match.
And as a reporter just told me, it's as if they're suicide bombers.
Oh yeah, nice comparison, Cenk.
Because these people won't be shamed by illegitimate accusations of bigotry.
They're just like Muslim suicide bombers.
Because that's your entire constructed worldview, isn't it?
Everything is constructed around bigotry.
And if these people just don't care about what you consider to be bigotry, well geez, they're just going to blow the whole thing up.
And so you can't win a fight with a suicide bomber because he's going to blow you up either way, because his goal is different than your goal.
Your goal is to wrestle him to the ground.
His goal is to blow you up.
So he wins whether you win or not.
Oh yeah, that's absolutely right, Cenk.
You've really worked it out.
You've really broken the conditioning.
That encounter with Alex Jones was good for you.
I mean, there is a lack of moral centre.
Go on, Hal.
Start lecturing us on morality.
To these people, which is really quite terrifying.
Not that I think that any moral centre is necessary, you know, you have to have, I believe you have to have the right kind of compass and actually care about human beings.
Unless they don't have the right kind of moral compass, in which they're suicide bombers.
And kindness and fairness and equality.
And do you really think these are qualities that the regressive left demonstrates?
The lack of belief I find almost more frightening because it can be directed in...
It can be directed anywhere.
That's right.
Not giving a fuck has gone intersectional.
And, of course, we've seen exactly the same thing in the UK just now with Brexit.
Boris Johnson with Nigel Farage with all these people who are professional trolls.
Imagine being so conceited as to say that.
Any challenger to my political position must be illegitimate by definition.
They are literally trolls.
Yeah, sure, I mean, that guy's an MEP who was elected by the British public to go to Europe to democratically represent them.
But he doesn't agree with me, so he's a troll.
Ex-mayor of London, obvious troll.
And whose agenda is their own advancement at any cost?
It can't be that they think they're doing something good, because if they think they're doing something good, then they're not inhuman monsters.
You know, the way you're painting them.
And because I am now certain you can't read minds, Laurie, when you tell me about what's going on in someone else's head, I think that's what's going on in yours.
Like this.
They will say anything.
They will lie.
They have no impunity.
They lie and lie.
And it's never them that loses out.
You just truth bond yourself there, Laurie.
Just so you know.
So, one more thing before we get into who's worse in this sad state of affairs, which is the insincerity of it.
Because I think that a lot of their followers think that they are sincere.
Oh, yeah.
And they think, like, oh, no, you guys are being totally unfair, typical, left, regressive, whatever, all the things that they're going to throw at us, right?
Yeah.
Right?
Yes, Chank.
Yeah, this time you're actually right.
You are going to do all of these things because you do it constantly.
It's your fucking jobs.
And now it's not working.
You guys don't know what to do.
You both look terrified.
So yes, you're right on that.
Carry on.
But like, they don't get it that the joke's on them because you were in the car when he got banned from Twitter.
Oh, someone said the magic words on Twitter.
Go on.
Tell me about this important event.
And so you would think that if they were, if he was serious about this, that he'd be outraged at this.
Freedom of speech and no violation.
And in fact, a lot of his supporters, who I actually think are earnest, totally misguided, but earnest, which in some way I respect more, think like they are truly outraged.
Oh my god, there's a freedom of speech issue center.
I love how Laurie's shaking her head and smiling here.
I mean, I wonder if she's thinking, hmm, that's a silly thing to say.
There is no such thing as freedom of speech.
We killed it.
Meanwhile, what was his reaction when he found out?
He said he's delighted.
He said, it's the end of the platform, darling.
No, I'm delighted.
It's great news, great publicity.
I'm here in front of all the world's cameras.
He was thrilled.
The entire team was thrilled.
You guys know that Milo being banned from Twitter is both of these things, don't you?
It was entirely beneficial for Milo because he got publicity, as you say.
It makes you look like a bunch of authoritarian dick holes.
And it is a genuine free speech issue.
Banning Milo from Twitter was a silly move on the part of Twitter.
Of course it was.
Of course it was.
Right, right, right, right, right.
Right, right, right.
Right?
Oh my god, Chank, shut up.
So you think that he's hurt by it?
No!
It's attention!
He couldn't have been happier!
And like, does he care about freedom of speech in that context?
No!
Of course he does, but he's also fighting a war against you, which is why all you've done is lament your loss of power and the power they are gaining.
You know it's a war.
He knows it's a war.
This is a tactical blunder on the part of Twitter.
Too damn bad.
It's like, this is as good a news as I could have hoped for.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And it's like when people go out to protest Donald Trump, he loves it.
He loves it.
He doesn't care.
It's just more attention.
Actually, Rodomus, it's a lot more complicated than that.
When you're dealing with perpetual liars, you can't rely on what they say to persuade other people.
Because what they say isn't true.
It's not a true representation of who they are and what they do.
You have to make them demonstrate it through action.
That's what they're doing.
That's why you hate them.
They are provoking you to action because they know you are actually not flower-loving beatniks.
Inside of your chest beats the heart of a Stalinist.
And you would happily take action against these people if only you had the power.
And that's what Twitter have done with Milo.
They are showing people what you really are.
And you hate it.
Because people don't like authoritarian assholes.
So that's because Donald Trump is the king of the trolls.
He took it to a macro level, a meta-level.
You know, he's almost taken over the country as a professional troll.
And when you look at it that way, you realize, okay, well, they think, look at him.
I mean, look at all the success he's gotten by being, as soon as I said King of the Trolls, of course, I thought of Game of Thrones.
Oh yeah.
King of the trolls.
But winter is coming.
Yes, but winter is coming.
So let's talk about winter for a second.
Yeah, where the fuck is this cringe going?
Who are you more scared by?
The guys who don't believe anything, don't have any empathy.
And so guys like Nemo and others that are a little bit like sociopaths.
Is there anything else you could say about them that's worse?
Just out of interest?
I mean, without having direct evidence of them committing some sort of crime.
I mean, could you think of anything worse?
I mean, they probably don't even love their own mothers, Cenk.
They can't know what love is.
They're sociopaths.
It's not that what you're doing is wrong and they are rebelling against you.
And they're getting popular because everyone can fucking see it.
I mean, and Trump's, you know, the main ghostwriter for Trump on Art of the Deal, he said if he had to redo it and say that, rename the book, he would call it sociopath, right?
And so that's pretty scary when you have no empathy for other human beings.
Honestly, Cenk, I am terrified by the sheer number of people on all sides of the political spectrum who have no empathy for other human beings.
I've got no doubt that if Donald Trump wins this, in fucking four years' time, I'm going to be like, Donald Trump was a disaster.
We need to get rid of him, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Because he will have been the one being the oppressive force in society, or at least leading an oppressive force in society.
But as it stands, he isn't.
Until he is, there is no point in me criticizing Donald Trump.
I would be punching down and not up.
Or the guys who are true believers.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah, I do.
But I think the people who are true believers are much, much easier to predict.
The hollow, madly firing trolls are much, much scarier because they will do or say anything.
And particularly if they have that massive lack of empathy.
trolls on the left of course but they tend to come with an inconvenient conscious conscience attached it's kind of a demonstration of your sociopathic lying Are you fucking insane?
Have you seen anti-fire demonstrations?
Oh no, are you?
You fucking trolls on the left tend to come with a conscience attached!
Laurie, all you've done is lie constantly.
In fact, you are so wrapped up in lies about your opponents, you can't even bring yourselves to think of them as people who care about anything.
And now you're going to tell me that other people don't have empathy.
You are just...
You are so awful.
And one day you'll have to admit that to yourself.
Yeah, they are much, much more frightening, and that is the discourse that's taken on.
Meanwhile, on the left, people are burdened by so much.
Identity politics?
Principles.
I bet at this point you don't even know the difference.
That they can't compromise on anything at all.
Yes, utterly inflexible totalitarian sociopaths.
That's how you're describing the left.
The right, we've seen in the UK.
They are very, very good at getting their shit together, sorry, and like, you know, uniting behind one person, whatever they think, because it's more important to them to be in power.
Again, Princess, you can't read minds, so I'm going to take this as your wild lunatic speculation.
But again, again, nobody seeks power for the sake of power.
They seek power to do things.
Imagine going after power for the sake of power.
What happens when you are the most powerful entity in the world?
What do you do then?
What was all of this power worth?
They have motivations which give them desires, and power is the means of attaining those desires.
They are people just like you, Laurie.
So, you know, there is a reasonable middle ground, which is- Not slapping a pejorative label on someone just because they disagree with you.
Wait until they actually say something openly bigoted before you actually call them a name.
To be able to have a sense of humor about things.
I hear Saudi Arabia is nice this time of year.
And to, you know, not take yourself so seriously, which a lot of the left does.
A lot of the left is very regressive.
And we try to push past that.
But the problem is that if you try to have a sense of humor with a right, there is no, you give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.
If you try to, like, treat them with a little bit of, like, oh, hey, how you doing?
They're like, all right, great.
This allows me to take over everything.
Yeah, yeah, they were the ones who came in and said, hey, look, right, we've got to make this a safe space.
We've got to make sure there's no hurt feelings in this space.
Hey, are you not letting women play video games?
Oh, that's it.
Sexists.
Oh, where are the black people in this lineup on the film?
Oh, racists.
There are no gay people in this TV program.
Homophobes.
Yeah, they're the ones who come in and take everything over, Cenk.
They're the ones who do it.
It's not you, and it's not projection.
It's not anything, anything to do with you.
It's never your fault.
It's always someone else.
The left is perfect.
It doesn't need a complete reformation of its own.
You know, a mirror to what the right has had to endure in America with Donald Trump.
And blow things up, yes.
Like, you made a terrible error by allowing me into your house.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, which is why I don't hang out socially with these people.
Don't worry, Laurie.
They're not going to kick you out of the cool kids club.
all spelt with K's incidentally.
I chose to go to this thing because I got invited, but most things that I will...
I don't like that aspect of British culture in particular which is all buddy-buddy because we're all part of the same media game anyway.
We're all the establishment.
I think that is poisonous.
I try to avoid it.
Yeah, not hating someone for their beliefs is poisonous.
But hating someone for their beliefs is honest.
You're a psycho.
So that's exactly right.
And that gets me to what I mentioned earlier, which is the dangerous part of this, because it's not a game.
So there are two things that I worry about.
One is, uh, lone lunatics, you listen to a guy, look, I'll just say his name for now, I don't want to emphasize it, but...
He who shall not be named.
Alex Jones, right?
So here's a guy who deals in conspiracy theories on a regular basis.
You know, Sandy Hook was a false flag operation.
Harry Reid had all those kids killed.
Whatever insane things they believe, right?
Which is why I'm amazed you're afraid of Alex Jones.
But you know that Laurie Penny also believes in conspiracy theories.
She thinks you're part of the patriarchy.
She thinks you are oppressing women.
And by how close you're sitting, Chenk, you probably are.
So now, if you're following religiously, that means this is you have self-selected a group of people who are the most paranoid people in the country.
There's a conspiracy everywhere.
It's a white supremacist capitalist patriarchy, Cenk.
And it's all across the world.
They're also heavily, heavily armed.
And then they don't know that Alex is in it for the attention, doesn't really care, and will lie about anything and everything.
So he does this stunt with us.
Again, I made the mistake of saying hi for a second.
I certainly didn't invite him in.
You know, he just burst in.
I said, hey, Alex.
I shook his hand.
Oh, there it is.
Now he's taking over the show.
He's putting out his propaganda.
He's being assaulted.
All this stuff, right?
Yeah, yeah, how dare he?
That was meant to be your propaganda.
Okay.
But afterwards, he says, I've been on a show 10 or 50 times.
See, that's such a easy, he's so easy with that line.
Oh, yeah.
And it makes you think, wow.
Like, this guy has no conscience.
That is such an easily verifiable thing.
He's been on the show once, a couple of years ago when I was on Current TV.
Anyone can look it up.
Laurie has spent this entire interview lying to your face, Jank.
And you've eaten up those lies because they are lies you want to hear.
And when someone tells you a lie you don't want to hear, you disbelieve it and tell them that they're a bad person.
That's your reality.
Carry on.
But he lies with such great ease.
Uh-huh.
Okay, but he's doing it for a show and his fans don't know it.
He's like a they're watching professional wrestling, but they think it's real.
But then they will go out.
But they're armed and they're paranoid and they think it's real.
Oh, right.
I suppose it's Trump supporters who go to like Bernie and Hillary rallies and start causing trouble and protesting there, isn't it?
So that's one part of the danger.
Are you worried about that?
And, you know, when you wrote the article, was there a lot of blowback from that crowd?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, but look, I'm a left-wing anarchist, feminist writer.
I get blowback if I post about my dinner.
Why do they always leave out communist?
Do they just put that into left-wing, do you think?
You know, these people come after me with porno, awful stuff every day, but I am deeply frightened of it.
Yeah, I think it is a really frightening trend and dismissing it as just trolls.
There's no such thing as just trolls anymore.
It's the mainstream now.
Yes, you have finally pissed off enough people that not being shamed by the regressive left is a political position.
It's really worrying.
Yeah, because they might be in it for the glamour, like Nemo and the fabulous hair and all this stuff, but their fans don't know that it's a show.
They think it's real.
And it doesn't matter what's in the hearts of the leaders if the fans think it's real.
The harm they do is real.
Because people will say to you, oh, you know, this person is, he's so nice in real life.
He's a sweetheart.
He doesn't mean any of it.
It doesn't matter that he doesn't mean any of it.
People say this to me about Donald Trump.
I went to this Women for Trump event.
They were like, oh, he's so nice, really.
But it doesn't matter.
He's whipping up armies of racists.
Yes.
Okay, so I thought I'd just let that go for a while because they were just kind of almost riffing off each other's building.
Yeah, yeah.
And suddenly, Donald Trump's got armies of neo-Nazis marching through the United States, presumably murdering gays and black people wherever they go.
That goes to the final part of this, which I view to be the greatest danger.
Because this is when Andrew Breitbart died, and he was a provocateur, and he was a great one.
And he was on my show a couple of weeks before he passed away.
And we had this discussion back and forth.
And at one point, he admitted in one of the last stunts that he had done that he was trying to get a rise out of people.
Right.
That he didn't really mean it.
And you can go back and look at that interview.
He doesn't say it word for word, but it is fairly obvious that at one point he goes, come on, man, I'm trying to get a rise out of him, right?
Again, that doesn't mean he didn't mean it.
I don't really know anything about Andrew Breitbart.
I've only seen video clips of him interacting with the regressive left.
But it seems to me that his talent was understanding the regressive left and being one of the first to refuse to be shamed by them.
So, but the problem was that it wasn't a game.
And because, for example, when they get people riled up against the Syrian refugees, these poor people are running from ISIS.
Oh, yeah, this is a black and white issue, Cheney.
Go on.
They've been, their families have been butchered sometimes.
Well, most of the time not.
They've risked their lives.
They've risked their kids' lives coming across the Mediterranean.
sometimes I mean they have under the now some of the same guys call Isis Nazis They're running from the Nazis, according to your own.
You can't tell the difference between the people doing the bad stuff and the people running from those people.
Okay, to start with, if they couldn't tell the difference, why wouldn't they just be protesting that they're letting ISIS into the country?
And secondly, just because they're fleeing ISIS doesn't make them a fucking bunch of angels, Laurie.
400,000 crimes in Germany alone since the beginning of the migrant crisis last year.
400,000.
That's not even the beginning of the migrant crisis, but that's when it started gearing up and the numbers really started coming across.
400,000.
Thousands of rapes.
Thousands of rapes.
Thousands of women have been raped.
And your response to this was to say, this isn't feminism.
This is Islamophobia.
How dare you criticize these poor noble refugees?
They're not ISIS.
How dare you, sir?
This is exactly what happens in Birmingham on a Friday night.
Oh no, wait.
That was Jess Phillips, a feminist MP for Birmingham.
In fact.
They all look the same to you.
Brown skin, brown hair, brown eyes.
Speaks Arabic.
Yes, they all look the same.
Does that mean that you can't distinguish between individuals?
No, of course not, you idiots.
But do they have similar racial traits?
Yes, Laurie, they fucking do.
And I know what you're thinking.
I know your knees are going fucking crazy, hammering against the table.
You want to tell me that I hate Syrians now.
But the fact is, Laurie, I don't.
That's just an observation.
And so when the Nemos and the Joneses of the world rile people up, and they think it's cute and funny, but it has real-life consequences because then people actually do policy based on that.
There's polling on it, and there's, you know, and Donald Trump, Donald J. Troll, as we sometimes call him, couldn't be more real.
He's as real as a heart attack.
He's got about a 50% chance of winning the presidency, in which case he would implement those horrible policies.
And then it's not fun in games anymore because you've hurt a ton of people.
I just gave one example, but you can give thousands of examples of how people would be hurt in the real world.
Right, so you're saying that if Donald Trump doesn't accept civilian refugees, it's Donald Trump's fault that they died.
You don't think it might be ISIS's fault that these people die?
I mean, what is it?
They all look the same to you?
Yeah, no, no, it's really, really frightening.
And these people seem to believe that the only thing that mattered is what you feel deep inside and who you are as a person.
I think it's that, like Dumbledore says, that you're judged by your actions.
I think people should be judged by what they do rather than just how they are inside.
It matters how you act on the world.
Now tell me, why was Milo excited that he was banned from Twitter?
You fucking hypocrite.
These people seem to think that there is no human consequence, or if they do, they just don't care.
You are very good at speaking your mind.
Whenever you say they, I hear I.
Yeah, and that is deeply problematic.
So I wish we had a real debate.
You fucking liar.
Because the other, the last part of it that's problematic is, I want to talk to conservatives.
Why don't you give Alex Jones a call?
For 20 years that I've been in this business, I've talked on air with countless conservatives.
And that's the debate I want to go back to.
I want to take money out of politics.
They want to go back and forth and have a real honest debate.
But trolls ruin the debate.
And so then you're afraid to have any conservative on because they're going to throw a bomb.
Very interesting way of phrasing it.
Then they're just going to destroy your narrative.
That's going to ignore it.
They're just going to smash through it.
They don't care about your lies because that's what this is.
You're carefully constructed lies.
And anything that doesn't align perfectly with them, you toss outside and say, troll.
And then they're not honest.
And all they want to do is grab attention.
Said the lying attention seekers.
And not have an earnest debate.
It must be because they're racists.
So it just, they think it's cute, but it has all these consequences that are unfortunate.
And they can giggle about it.
Maybe because a lot of them are 60 years old.
But those refugees aren't giggling.
People that you throw off of food stamps who desperately need it for their kids aren't giggling.
Give me one fucking name, you fat, disingenuous hack.
You don't know any of these people.
You don't know anything about any of these people.
What they do, what they think, what they believe, what they're even going through.
You're just hearing this third or fourth hand.
You don't even send journalists to this place, even though you could probably afford it.
But look at the noble buffalo standing up for the poor and needy.
You know, those ones over there that I don't really know anything about, they're way over there.
Look, they're poor and needy and they need me.
They need me to combat the threat of these people who are really close.
Look at them, racist.
Shut up, you fucks.
You don't get to talk.
No, you're a troll.
No, you're a troll.
You're all trolls.
This is how you sound, Chang.
This is how you sound to rational people.
Etc.
But look, I want you guys to read Lori's article.
Like I said, we'll have the link below for wherever we put this up because it's not just the substance that we just talked about.
The details of their indifference are interesting.
And honestly, your writing was fantastic.
Thank you very much.
So thank you for joining us, Lori.
We really appreciate it.
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