Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - Explaining Steve Shives to The Thinking Atheist

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Dec. 10, 2015 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

11:05

Explaining Steve Shives to The Thinking Atheist

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	So if you've been paying attention to anything that's been happening in the atheist community on YouTube recently, you may have seen an interview with Steve Shives on a channel called The Thinking Atheist.
	This interview was not well received, and the chap who runs the channel, who I presume was interviewing Steve, a guy called Seth, posted this in the comments section.
	Seth seems reasonably surprised at the reaction this interview has had.
	And he seems to have had a noticeable number of people unsubscribed from his channel because of this interview.
	It seems that Seth really doesn't know why people are so angry that he interviewed Steve Shives, and honestly, I don't blame him.
	He says, I don't have time to watch the huge quantity of content on the pages of those I Cross Paths with.
	But while I knew he was controversial, I also thought it would be an interesting exchange.
	It does genuinely appear that he doesn't really know why people are angry at Steve Shives, but I do think I can explain the issue adequately.
	Honestly, I think people's biggest problem with Steve isn't necessarily that he is parroting feminist dogma.
	It's more about his attitude regarding it, especially when he's challenged on it.
	He becomes hostile and aggressive, condescending and inflammatory in regards to people who simply disagree with feminism's ideological assertions, dismissing discord as men's rights or claiming that they are part of the he-man-woman haters club.
	And when he is met with an understandable backlash, he claims the people he has offended are right-wing misogynists and openly declares his contempt for evidence, reason, discussion, or other people's opinions.
	Drop this hypersensitive defensiveness and either grow up and learn to accept the fact that we live in a society where there is gender inequality and where it disadvantages women and that that is a problem that needs to be addressed or toddle off to the men's rights movement subreddits and bitch and moan with the other guys who are upset at the unfair divorce settlement or because they never get to see their kids or because the girl they like won't go out with them.
	Steve is bafflingly angry at the people who have been wronged in the ways he has just described.
	I'm not surprised someone would complain about an unfair divorce settlement.
	And as a father, I am really not surprised that someone would be very upset that they were prevented from seeing their own children.
	And I am also not surprised that given the fatherlessness of modern families in the Western world, that young men aren't getting any tuition from their fathers that they aren't allowed to see in order to help them figure out exactly how they should be talking to women.
	But instead of being even vaguely empathetic to these self-evidently real concerns, Steve reacts like this.
	There's a place for you.
	It's called the Men's Rights Movement.
	It's a little bubble of misogyny on the internet that you can go and be with your own, put in your application for membership in the vaunted He-Man Women Haters Club, and just be happier over there.
	That's my suggestion to you.
	If you look at a sign like that, or if you look at the term feminism, and you just can't understand why it refers specifically to women.
	Go there.
	Go there.
	They want you.
	They will accept you.
	Personally, I have no use for you.
	The men's rights movement isn't about gender equality.
	It's about tipping the inequality even more in the favor of men.
	So fuck it.
	These are absolutely unreasonable reactions to the things he's talking about.
	And it's this reactionary and frankly preachy attitude that has made him the laughing stock of the YouTube atheist community.
	He has absolutely no self-awareness on the subject.
	There is clearly an emotional issue underpinning Steve's flat refusal to discuss the ideas he's proselytizing.
	Ideas he approaches with a complete dearth of skepticism, and when confronted with the mildest criticism, he simply blocks whoever presented it.
	Religious oppression of women can be easy to spot.
	Churches have rules banning women from certain roles, imposing rigid standards of dress and conduct, establishing gender-segregated worship services, and so on.
	Oppression of women in the YouTube atheist community is not nearly so formal.
	Steve has become so entrenched in radical feminist dogma that he actually believes that women in the YouTube atheist community are being oppressed on a par with organized religion.
	This ideological bias is killing Steve's channel, and it's distinguishing those who are skeptics from those who are simply not religious.
	And there are people who are genuinely disappointed in Steve.
	I can't tell you the number of times someone has said to me in my comment sections, I used to love Steve's An Atheist Read series, but he just accepts feminist dogma without questioning it, and he blocked me.
	Steve has been on YouTube for long enough for details of his personal life to become apparent just through his channel.
	And it seems that there really is a logical explanation for his hyper-ideological position and his flat refusal to accept that there may be flaws with feminism that people need to discuss.
	Of the two series, I prefer Angel to Buffy.
	Do you think that's because I'm a sexist?
	Whether I intend to be sexist or not.
	Do you think there's like sexism involved there?
	Yeah, and you know why?
	Because Angel is about a guy.
	And you identify as a guy, I'm sure, with a male main character.
	And all the women, well, there's one, Cordelia.
	Well, there's Fred.
	There's Fred, but she didn't come till later.
	That's true.
	But for the first, what, like four seasons?
	For the first two seasons.
	It was just Cordelia, you know, who is ditzy.
	And she's hot.
	I mean, she's really attractive.
	I mean, who doesn't like to look at Cordelia and her low-cut shirts?
	I mean, I'm a woman, I can say that.
	And Fred is just generally smart, and she's cute, too.
	And that's another thing.
	You know, you can be a strong woman, but only if you're physically very aggressive.
	At the same time, you can be very vulnerable and defer to the other usually male characters in the room.
	And I think that happens a lot on Angel.
	I think you are secretly sexist, and you probably won't put this in the video, but...
	Well, no, I mean, I wouldn't...
	Take a look at your bookshelf.
	Take a look at your music.
	My music collection.
	I always give you crap about that because it's true.
	I mean, I didn't ask you because I wanted to deny that I have sexist attitudes.
	I know that I do, but I do admit it, so therefore.
	And since I admit it, it's okay.
	Come on.
	After seeing that interaction, can anyone honestly say that looks like a healthy relationship?
	Where his wife is such a radical feminist, she thinks he is a sexist because he prefers Angel over Buffy and because of his music and book collection.
	And this is something that she goes on about to him all the time to the point where he looks like he's being held hostage.
	He isn't smiling when he's talking to her.
	He's trying to placate her.
	He doesn't want to have to go through this again.
	You can tell.
	Just look at his body language.
	Look how his eyes dart around.
	He looks defensive and nervous and he looks afraid of being persecuted because he happens to like Angel over Buffy or whatever again.
	It's petty.
	It's absolutely trivial and I think this is the reason Steve is emotionally committed to feminism.
	If he's not, he's just going to get chewed out again by his wife.
	It's never going to end for him.
	So he wants you to understand that he has to be a feminist.
	He has no choice.
	I think that this is why, despite listing perfectly reasonable arguments from men's rights activists, this is why Steve cannot bear to discuss feminism with anyone.
	He has to make himself believe it.
	And not just for a bit of peace and quiet at home, but because I think he's going to be given another guilt trip.
	He doesn't want to feel guilty.
	I don't think Steve's a bad guy.
	I really don't.
	I just think the pressure he's being put under at home by his radical feminist wife is making him one.
	Ideologies like feminism are a poison to what is supposed to be the rational, free-thinking, open-minded community on YouTube.
	Instead of being open to discussion in the marketplace of ideas, Steve and other YouTube atheist feminists have utterly closed themselves off from discussion.
	Instead of attempting to engage with arguments on their merits, they have instead repeatedly avoided the issue.
	If not by using ad hominem attacks on the people they are supposed to be having the discussion with, by outright insulting them.
	And they're doing this to avoid answering the questions that are being posed at them.
	To avoid being held to account for their self-evidently flawed arguments.
	It's easy to be angry with Steve.
	He acts like such an asshole that he does deserve it.
	But personally, at this point, I just feel sorry for him.
	I feel sorry for the situation that he's in.
	I feel sorry for him being judged so harshly on the music he listens to, on the books he likes to read, the authors of the books that he likes to read.
	Because I'm sure that most of them are white men.
	So I hope this goes some way to explaining just why Steve is such an unpopular figure.
	It's the bed he has made and now he is going to have to lie in it.
	But the thing is, Steve, if you're ever listening to this, you can solve all this in an instant.
	You could apologise for the way you've treated people.
	You could apologise for insulting them, you could apologise for belittling them.
	And people like myself would turn around and apologise in return for the way that we have reciprocated this behavior.
	But if you continue to insist that people are bad people just because they are not feminists and they don't agree with your ideological position and they have The temerity to challenge you on it, I really don't see how anything is going to get Better for you.

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