Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - Getting Wrecked with Dr RandomerCam

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June 23, 2015 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

02:01:33

Getting Wrecked with Dr RandomerCam

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	Hello shitlords.
	I'm here with Dr. Randomacam, who better known as Mike, is that correct?
	Cool.
	Just it's a lot shorter than Dr. RandomCam.
	But yeah, I'm streaming via Skype and various other streaming shit because we're going to try watching videos and see if we can pause them as we go along.
	So shall we try it?
	Everyone in the chat, do let me know how the volume is, because I have no fucking idea how this is going to go.
	Please welcome...
	Can you hear that?
	I need a Sarkeesian.
	You can't see anything.
	Well they're going to make me cry up here.
	Right.
	Can you guys hear the video in the stream?
	Hi.
	I'm Anita Sarkeesian.
	volume is too loud apparently um so i run an educational unfortunately i can't really change the audio that much because otherwise mike can't hear it so So it might just have to be a little bit loud.
	I'll turn it down a little bit for everyone.
	right okay that's great okay the video is too loud compared to our voices apparently so So when we were being in the test, he was like, no, no, it's way too quiet, way too quiet.
	Everyone's going to.
	It's going to be far too quiet for everyone.
	So, okay, glad that works.
	Right, okay.
	So how are you, Mike?
	And what are you drinking?
	Oh.
	Hang on.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Everyone's getting on my case because they can't hear you, and I know why they can't hear you.
	Because I'm trying to be cheap.
	Right, okay.
	Okay, I was trying to cheat the system.
	I bet everyone can hear you now.
	What did you just say?
	And let's see if everyone can hear you while you're here.
	It doesn't matter.
	I'm going on about the intricacies of being a drunk.
	They honeyjacked me in different sized bottles, like it's Alice in Wonderland or fucking something.
	And now I'm on the later bottle.
	If I do a video with that in my hand, you'll think my hands have shrunk slowly.
	It's complicated being a professional drunk, Sargon.
	I'm a professional drunk, when you think about it.
	Kind of, yeah.
	Okay, apparently you're quite quiet, so let me just fan you around.
	Should I refrain from saying witty things until I'm fully audible?
	Possibly.
	Not really.
	But I think, can everyone hear?
	I think everyone can hear you now.
	Yeah, I think they can hear you.
	They're talking about what you're drinking, so.
	Okay.
	I'm not seeing the stream in YouTube.
	Why is it here?
	Oh, there it is.
	Oh, fuck.
	You got my face on it, you dickhead.
	Why would you do that?
	Oh, no.
	God, that's a good looking face.
	Oh, okay.
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	I'm actually not drinking.
	I am eating.
	Eating, you say?
	Yes.
	Various brownie-shaped substances.
	Oh, I see.
	I see.
	Cool.
	Everyone's like, right, this is all good.
	Glad to hear it.
	That's fucking excellent.
	So, tell me about men's rights activism.
	You know what, right?
	It occurred to me that I actually, for the amount I get called a men's rights activist, I don't really know much about it, and I watch all your videos as well.
	As far as I'm aware, you guys want a very similar arrangement that the feminists want with like alimony and child support and division of labour with parenting.
	Like, you know, in the court cases, someone's divorced and the women aren't automatically given the kids.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	Well, basic, yes.
	And circumcision, do you want outlawed or it basically goes down to equality?
	I mean, if it's outlawed, we do it to women.
	We should probably outlaw if we do it to men.
	It's just very difficult to get this across when there are hordes of certain kinds of people who twist that argument into its exact opposite.
	See what I mean?
	It's much like, you know, you I dare to say, you guys advocate for journalistic ethics, and that doesn't mean you hate women either.
	Surprisingly enough, no, no, I don't believe anyone in Gamergate actually hates women.
	I've never met them.
	It's like you said in my last video.
	I don't know if you're part of Gamergate, but your understanding of it is absolutely superb.
	And I don't know if you're part of the men's rights movement, Sargon, but your understanding of it is absolutely superb.
	You know, I don't think it's all that good.
	I think it's...
	The thing is, right, I know that it's not about hating women.
	And this is the thing.
	The feminists are always saying things like, oh, men's rights activists want to oppress women.
	They want to put women back in the kitchen.
	All this sort of stuff.
	And it's just like, look, right, I can't believe that's true.
	You know, I'm sure that men's rights activists are all a bunch of, as someone in the chat is like, a bunch of dumb gay faggots and stuff.
	And I'm sure that's completely true.
	But I'm also sure that they're not trying to put women back in the kitchen or anything of the sort.
	I mean, I've just never seen an MRA say anything like that.
	So, you know.
	Yeah.
	So, yeah.
	Your stuff you think is true about them might be a little bit skewed away from reality as well.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I just, after Gamergate, you know, before Gamergate, I wasn't so bothered about it.
	But after GameGate, I kind of, I suppose I started feeling bad for MRAs because they I know what it's like to have everyone in the media shit on you.
	It's not pleasant, you know.
	Well, they were doing this before I even called myself an MRA.
	It's not like I started doing that because I wanted the media to shit on me.
	I thought, well, yeah, this is a verb, people.
	This refers to something that people do.
	And when I look at what I'm doing, it appears to be something that I do when I talk the things I talk.
	So you're essentially talking about me.
	And, you know, I could say that about other folks who talk about the same things I talk about.
	But I understand we're all fucked up with identity politics and all that.
	And nobody wants to have a noun attached to the.
	And trying to catch people into a group like that is exactly what the feminists do.
	So you can't do that.
	You know, this is why I don't go around saying, oh, do you believe in journalistic ethics?
	You're with Gamergate then.
	Oh, fuck off.
	Well, yeah, part of it is under yeah, is understanding what they want you to identify as and what they don't want you to identify as.
	And yeah, it w they appear to live in a society that insists that you be a feminist and and very much insists that you're not a men's rights activist.
	It's uh yeah.
	I mean I I I see now that one one of the ways that um I can spot feminism as being a supremacy movement is by the fact that they hate men's rights activists.
	But if you actually look at what feminists and MRAs are asking for, there is a lot of crossover there.
	An absolute you know, there's loads of crossover there, you know.
	I mean I've I've seen like Lacey Green go on about circumcision.
	I've seen plenty like Big Red going on about parental custody because it's part of patriarchy.
	You know that there's a lot of stuff that you guys are asking for that's exactly the same as what the feminists are asking for and yet they treat you like you are the devil.
	So you know I can only assume that they're doing it for power rather than for the actual cause.
	Yeah like I said I do you have a problem with human rights activists and the answer in the case of many feminists appears to be half yes half no.
	They don't like the half with the dicks.
	Well, that that's the thing, isn't it?
	If if they were, if they were women's rights advocates, then they would probably be big, be big fans of men's rights advocates.
	But they're not.
	They're feminists, which is clearly something different.
	And but I mean people in the chat say, you know, the foreskin isn't the same as clitoris, and no, it's not.
	You know it's not.
	I agree, but I mean, what's the real reason that we, you know, we do that, you know that's done, it's it, it.
	It doesn't seem to be very good.
	It's either religious, which is not a good reason, or it comes from what um Kellogg's isn't it?
	Wasn't he some sort of uh yeah, terrible Puritan?
	Well, he was one of many, who you know who, who who got into the game of stopping boys from masturbating, and that turned out to be quite a profitable and promiscuous game.
	It's certainly I I. For most of my life, I thought there was only one invention that was named after me, and it was, well, it wasn't named after me.
	It was, you know, the Stevenson fucking engine.
	Then I discovered one day that there's such a thing called the Stevenson spermatic truss.
	Stevenson's my name.
	Well um yeah okay, and there's a spermatic truss.
	There's all kinds of fucking devices they used to use to stop boys from masturbating.
	Yeah, it's amazing how much effort they put into it, isn't it uh?
	Someone in the chat said they were getting an echo.
	Is everyone getting an echo?
	Is it just that one guy?
	Um, but yeah so yeah, this.
	This is basically one of my main problems with uh, feminists and the way they treat Mras.
	I mean, I said I don't really care about, Mrs. I find I find a lot of them really boring.
	You're, you're one of the few that I actually enjoy watching the videos of, because you don't.
	I think that's largely just because i'm an artist who happens to identify as an MRA, you know yeah, because I mean there are probably people going, oh, fuck sake, I wish we weren't talking about MRAs.
	We're not going to be talking about MRAs very much.
	I it was just something I was always curious, Curious about because it was like, you know, I'm glad to hear this, Nerko.
	I was curious about, it's like, what, what, I don't know, what the hell do they, you know, what are their demands, you know, because it really doesn't seem like it's all that much that A, feminists should be holding you back from, and B, to achieve anyway.
	I mean, what, you know, what, what is it?
	Well, like, like, it all comes down to the identity politics.
	You're playing the identity politics game whether you like it or not.
	Your fate is subject to it.
	When the entire educational system and the entire media are telling you you should be a feminist because of made-up past, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't advocate for men's rights because of made-up present day and you shouldn't join Gamergate because of made-up future.
	You have to wonder, Sargon, why, you know, why are these people so insistent on these seemingly innocuous things?
	Why is it they don't like ethical journalism and men's human rights?
	And does it have anything to do with how much they insist on everyone being a feminist?
	Yes.
	It's not a fucking coincidence now, is it?
	Yeah, just in case anyone's missing the sarcasm, it's all power games and they know it.
	Yeah, one of the things I actually wanted to mention to MRAs is don't play their games.
	I see MRAs on Twitter and stuff like responding to feminist accusations about MRAs.
	If I were you guys, I wouldn't do that.
	I think that you guys probably shouldn't engage feminists whatsoever.
	What you should do is be creating petitions for governments for what you want.
	That's what you guys should be doing.
	And supporting people when they do that.
	Sorry?
	And supporting people when they do.
	Exactly, yeah.
	Because you'll be judged.
	I mean, you've lost the PR war, because let's be honest with ourselves.
	They are fantastic at talking feminists.
	They're amazing at it.
	They've got such incredible networking skills.
	But the things that they do are all, well, that, you know, it's all defamation of character.
	So if MRAs are just seen constantly, no matter what MRAs do, what you do, I'm creating a petition to end circumcision or whatever thing that you guys want to achieve.
	A, it'll get you closer to your goal if you're actually working towards it, I think.
	And B, when people come to see you, that's what they'll see.
	They won't see what the feminists are accusing.
	And it'll just make feminists appear to be even bigger liars than they already are, which will be an impressive feat because they are fucking gargantuan liars.
	Emma Sulkowitz.
	Honestly, I can't.
	Emma Sulkowitz pisses me off more than anything else, I swear.
	Fucking police are like, no, you're talking shit.
	Here's some chat logs saying you want him to fuck you in the ass.
	And then you're going to carry around this match to commit to the fact that he read you, are you?
	Really?
	Sorry, I just pissed off.
	I think she's advertising the fact that she was fucked, to be honest.
	Look, everyone, I fucked on this mattress.
	As long as I say rapely rape rape, that means I get to parade around campus.
	Talking about a sexual past.
	Exactly.
	I get to be the center of attention for spreading my fucking legs.
	That's what this is.
	And it's just, I mean, the dean of the university, when they were handing out the diplomas, he didn't shake her hand.
	He deliberately snubbed her.
	It's like fucking legend.
	Good for him, you know.
	True or not true, I'm not shaking your hand.
	Right decision.
	Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	Yeah, what were we talking about?
	Yeah, so that's just, I just wanted some advice to the MRAs, you know, because I personally, I consider myself like a militant egalitarian.
	So I don't feel that I could commit to a cause like that.
	But I don't think the MRAs are like the feminists.
	When I see you guys fictionalizing statistics and lying about things that happen to you and all this sort of thing, then, yeah, okay, fine.
	Then I'll consider you to be like the feminists, but until then, you know, I don't see you guys being like that.
	I hate to play the definition game, but obviously, by definition, the people doing petitions are the men's rights activists.
	Most of the people, you know, posting comments on my in favour of men's rights.
	Freely as I say I'm not a men's rights advocate, so I'm just here to comment on videos and say, hey, men's rights are important.
	That doesn't mean you get to call me a men's rights advocate and say whatever the fuck you like about men's rights advocates.
	No, no, I know, but I wasn't even talking about the videos really.
	I was really talking on Twitter and in the public sphere when you're having a direct conversation with someone and they're like, oh, men's rights do this.
	I seen Dean Esme doing this quite a lot.
	Like with the Mad Max thing.
	And I mean, I felt the need to do a video because they just wouldn't fucking shut up about it.
	It's just so amusing that anything PUAs say, anything MEGTAUS say, these whole identities go swooping over the media's head and they go, oh, it's just MRAs.
	Anything anyone who isn't a feminist says is an MRA.
	Sorry, Gone.
	No, to try to reintroduce the idea of an agency sync, which is something sort of person talked about.
	Like, you see two main agency syncs in everything journalism talks about, and it's men's rights advocates and Gamergate.
	Anything in the manner sphere gets agency synced into men's rights advocacy, and anything in the gaming sphere gets agency synced into Gamergate.
	Well, there's an awful lot of crossover.
	I mean, there's a huge amount of people who are like, oh, Gamergate's nothing but MRAs, you know.
	Sorry, guys, I didn't realize I was breathing heavily.
	It's everyone was saying, oh, you're really quiet.
	So I pulled the microphone quite close to my mouth because I couldn't be able to talk really loudly.
	But yeah, because that's as loud as it's going to go, I'm afraid.
	But yes, so yeah, I mean, there's a lot of crossover because they just like to, well, call everyone whatever their favourite fucking demon is.
	Although I think Gamergate has surpassed the MRAs in the gaming world.
	I think Gamergate is now the de facto antagonist.
	They haven't had a shooter yet.
	There were probably some people looking at that.
	Where's our Elliot Rogers, eh?
	Probably people looking at that racist kid thinking he must have played GTA or something.
	No, no, definitely a racist.
	Nothing we can do but race.
	This is actual racism, guys.
	Do you know what cracks me up about Elliot Rogers, man, is that again, I remember when it was happening, I was just like, the only thing really political that this guy has subscribed to is the Young Turks.
	So hmm.
	You know, maybe he's a progressive.
	Yeah, I alluded to this as slyly as I could in the two brief videos I did about the Young Turks.
	I'm determined not to go back there.
	I have this don't go back to the same turn twice raw.
	And I'm determined to keep it going when it comes to the Young Turks because, oh, god damn it.
	I just watched Ben's new video today and I can't even I haven't actually watched it yet.
	I love it.
	Yeah, he did a response to the Young Turks talking about this.
	Oh God, I never again.
	If I've seen someone do a response to the Young Turks, I'm just going to switch it off.
	My blood just fucking boils out of my ears.
	I can't stop myself sometimes.
	What a bunch of cunts!
	Oh my God!
	I can't stop myself sometimes because it's just...
	I mean, they're just so ideological.
	That's the problem.
	It's, you can see it happening.
	It's so weird when they've got their little echo chamber on the go and there's like three or four of them sat around going and and then, and then, Anna ends up being the voice of reason and it's just like, of all people, of all fucking people.
	You know yeah well yeah, you know, in the back of their minds, they know that's how the setup works.
	I don't know if they're that aware, I don't know.
	I don't know if they're that self-aware man, I don't, you know.
	You say oh, they know this, I don't know if they do.
	Well Chenk, even you know it's been known to come out in a minute.
	Yeah, I have a double standard.
	Yeah it's, it's.
	It's okay when women do it to men, but it's not okay when men are women.
	Yeah whatever, I have a double standard.
	Well okay Chenk, you're a bigot.
	Yeah you're, you're basically a fucking.
	I don't, I fuck.
	Whatever words there are for you Cenk, just go away.
	I'm not watching you ever again.
	You're appalling at communicating and you call yourself journalist.
	Goodbye forever launcher.
	I have to defend him now because when he does like his little journalistic expose where it's actually, where he's talking about something that he's not like you know um, emotionally invested in, like the fucking government.
	You know government corruption.
	He, he obviously doesn't like it, but he's not going to sit there and deny facts because he loves women or hates men or whatever you know, and so they're fine.
	You know, when he, when he does some government in expose or something, it's usually really well done and I really like it.
	When he starts talking about fucking identity politics or social issues, i'll just shut up Chank, just shut up.
	He's got this stupid bravado about him.
	That really does my head in.
	Yeah, you know, and it comes from being a fat guy.
	You know it comes from a fat guy.
	No, i'm telling you man, as a fat guy, I can tell you exactly where this is coming from.
	It comes from him being a fat guy and having to constantly justify that yes, he can get some pussy.
	That's well, you just pulled Sagon's Law on yourself.
	Oh mate, I know, I remember, that's how.
	I know, that's how what he was about to say.
	The same fucking goes for Bill, Or?
	I bet if I sat down and watched like 12 episodes of Bill O'reilly, maybe like one of them, i'd think, all right, maybe he's got a good point and I enjoy his bravado because he has a good point now, but that doesn't change the fact that the rest of the time he's talking he's talking absolute bollocks and his vitriol is for no reason other than forcing bollocks and it's not working at all.
	Yeah, I love something having the chat's like shit spot and I can identify as a fellow fat guy seriously fat guys, no man um, but uh, you know, you're exactly right.
	I'm sure that Bill O'rany is exactly the same.
	You know, it's just, he's not fat no, he's not, but he's really really fucking unlikable.
	So I can imagine, yeah exactly, let's do it like, yeah, he's a really unlikable dude, so he's got the same sort of problem.
	Basically, it's people who aren't really physically attractive enough to just, you know, have women falling at their feet that have this fucking issue.
	But uh, but it's.
	It's so cringeworthy when Chenkin and all the fucking betas are sat around like what, was it Ben Banaki or no no Ben, Something or other, and he's sat there going.
	I fucked my wife for ten years every night and stuff.
	It's like before we got married and they said, oh, shut up man, nobody gives a fuck about your fucking desperately trying to pretend that you don't have a tiny dick that barely works.
	You know, no one's interested about how much you fucked your wife before and no one believes you anyway, so fucking just get on with it.
	The man doth protest too much, or whatever exactly.
	Exactly they protest too much and it's cringeworthy.
	I'm just watching it like oh, you know just.
	And then they're like, yeah yeah, we're so.
	And then his fucking interview with Karen, Strong, Yes.
	I've been meaning to get around to do a fucking response video to that because, yeah, and loads of people have asked me.
	But just when he's like, Karen, you're getting hysterical.
	It's like, Chane, are you fucking serious?
	You know, she has been so calm, so collected, and she has her facts together, and you're like, get back in the kitchen.
	You fucking moron.
	So a bunch of people in the chat.
	Have you seen John Oliver's little clip of him?
	No, someone tweeted me that and said, do a response to this.
	I can't see it in my country.
	It's not available in my country.
	And I think that means if I do upload it, they'll go, oi, how did you get this?
	They will.
	They will.
	But I wonder if I can play it now.
	Shall we see?
	I did download it because those blocks, you know, they send you the link and I was blocked in this country.
	But you can still download it if you want.
	So okay, just to stress, I'm actually, you know, I'm completely fine with this, completely support this, just in case anyone is wondering in the future for whatever reason.
	You know, just fine, great.
	You know, does this really have to be news?
	You know, some women got some nasty words on the Twitter.
	It's awful.
	Just the worst in the world.
	You know, what now?
	I don't know.
	I mean, obviously the nasty words don't affect the men because of their muscles and their grey matter.
	Sorry, Sean Head just messaged.
	I tweeted at Jenny McDermott.
	The tweet is awesome.
	I strongly recommend everyone look at it.
	But everyone's like, oh, why are you talking to Jenny McDermott?
	And actually, I'm actually making a point.
	I'm glad that they're doing all this.
	Not because it's, you know, obviously nasty as shit for Thunderfoot, but this is the last time we ever really need to deal with the Mangina crew, I think.
	They clearly have nothing of any value to add to any conversation.
	And, you know, I think that this is the final nail in the coffin.
	I mean, she's literally just harassing him on Twitter about his dead father.
	I mean, you know, I'm sure Thunderfuck can take it because he's a fucking adult, but it's just the hypocrisy.
	You know, if this was, imagine if this was someone doing it to Jenny McDermott.
	You know, her dad was dying of cancer and it was like, oh, your dad fucking goes to her, pretend cancer.
	She'd be going fucking nuts.
	Oh, you know, victim, victim, victim.
	You know, and it's just.
	Well, perhaps she'd get Bewildered Ape to do it for her.
	Oh, yeah.
	I love how I love how he's such buddies with her.
	And it's like, wow.
	Did you see the video she did in response to me?
	And she just sat there licking his fucking ass.
	Of all the people you could grovel to to do your homework for you, you went with Bewildered fucking ape.
	Exactly.
	And now just.
	I was scraping the barrel.
	If anyone's not frail.
	An insult to the bacteria who survive on barrel scrapings.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	If anyone's not familiar, Bewildered Ape is really low, even for a social justice warrior or mangina.
	There was basically a bit of a civil war in the mangina sphere recently because Zenistrad, who I think is easily the most moral of the lot, you know, I don't agree with him and we might think each other are dicks, but he's not a bad guy.
	And, you know, Bewildered Ape, what did he say to Karen Strong?
	I can't remember, but I'm going to Google it.
	I'm just going to go because I want to be able to.
	It's something about coming around to her house and doing the things that John Oliver just described.
	I'm actually to do to a woman elsewhere.
	And obviously, Karen dealt with it like a champ, so it wasn't a story.
	Well, in fact, this is great.
	I can actually play the video that Zenistrad did.
	It's only a couple of minutes long.
	And yeah, there's a video that Zenistrad is.
	Zenistrad left a comment on Jenny McDowek's response video saying, How would Dr. Random again like it if someone accused him of being a rapist?
	What like if someone accused me of being in a hate group?
	Like if someone accused me of being of being fucking associated with violent people.
	Yeah, you could just completely fucking forget the thing you said that made me say the fucking response.
	But look, look, look, look at this, everyone.
	So this is Zenistrad's video where he's got Bewildered Ape tweeting Karen Stron or commenting on YouTube.
	Fuck you stupid bitch.
	I'm sorry, I'm just going to go back to that.
	Fuck you stupid bitch.
	After I'm done with Dr. Mason, I'm going to find where you live and do everything Dr. Mason's subscribers said they would do to any Sarkeesian.
	You want to be intellectual.
	Well, I doubt very much that any of Dr. Mason's subscribers actually said anything of the sort.
	And obviously Bewildered Ape isn't interested in proving it.
	Karen is not bothered.
	Serox kicks.
	Literally, there is no rustling in the Jimmies here.
	And she just mocks him back.
	And then he's like, what sort of woman are you?
	Just make sure you have a sandwich ready when I get there.
	Brilliant.
	But basically, if Karen Strom was a feminist, she'd be on MSNBC right now telling people how she was being threatened on Twitter or on YouTube.
	And yeah, and she's just like, you know, blah, blah, blah.
	I don't take you seriously.
	yeah and he's I mean he's bullshitting obviously you know no no one thinks that he's actually gonna do something but it's just and then you've got like whoa man totally unacceptable which I don't know who they were but just skip to Zenistrad's little thing So we guess.
	So, as you can see here, it seems as though Bewildered Ape has jumped the shark pretty badly.
	I actually kind of liked him.
	I liked his satire, but you know, this he was never really like this malicious about it.
	I felt kind of iffy about his open letter to Thunderfoot's employers, but like seeing him say this, this is just going to be the last.
	I just.
	He has not just jumped the shark here.
	He has, to paraphrase the skeptical heretic, he has gotten in the tank and fucked him.
	And this is just going to be my last word.
	The shark is in the other fucking pool.
	You all jumped him a long time ago.
	Anyone who's supporting him or enabling him or subscribed to him, I recommend that you just stop following him because this is not the sort of thing that we should be encouraging.
	See, now that is a perfectly rational and mature way of dealing with it.
	You know, he saw someone on his own team doing something that was morally acceptable to him, and he called it out like a man, frankly.
	And this is why I like Zenistrad so much more than any of the other ones.
	You know, good on him.
	You know, I mock him maybe sometimes, and I don't agree with what he says most of the time.
	But that takes strength of character, you know, especially as everyone knows what the fucking feminist mob is like.
	It takes strength of character to eat each other.
	As we've discovered, they will eat each other at a moment's notice.
	It's only a matter of time.
	Exactly.
	But the thing is, if you know that's what they're going to do, it takes strength of character to then stand up and go, well, you know, you're still fucking wrong because, you know, sending messages, you know, horrible threatening messages to women, full stop is bad.
	It doesn't matter whether they're feminist or not.
	So at least Zenstraub has stood up for his principles there.
	It's one way to poke your head out of the mire, I suppose.
	Another way is to, you know, speak up when it happens to men.
	Maybe one day that'll happen.
	Yeah, but I mean, at least he's not being, you know, a hypocrite.
	You know, that's.
	He's got a shred of self-awareness.
	Absolutely.
	Which is a lot more than most of them.
	Exactly.
	That's the point.
	I put some head and shoulders above almost all of them, especially like Bewildered Ape and Jenny McDermott, proving that they are the complete they are the bottom of the shit pile on Twitter.
	So, you know, yeah, it's just one of those things, isn't it?
	I like to think of Bewilders Ape as like the what's his name? The Ray Comfort of the Menjana crew.
	It's got that same Kiwi advice, which I can't quite do.
	Yeah, yeah, it's some crazy shit, isn't it?
	So, Saya, did you find anything interesting or funny to go through?
	No, I don't prepare for shit.
	Well, I can see that now.
	Just much like I treat the accent overlords.
	I just come in and go, apparently you guys want to talk to me.
	I don't know why, but here I am.
	I've been meaning to go on there.
	I'm really shit.
	I've fucking just always really busy.
	And so I say to Skeptical, yeah, yeah, man, I'll definitely come on.
	And then I don't end up coming on.
	And I'm just fucking sake, sorry.
	You know, something comes up or something like that.
	It's just.
	Yeah, one of you's always got something going on with the kids.
	All of you have got kids now.
	I don't know what you're on playing now.
	Yeah.
	Fuck it.
	Dumpster man, come talk to me.
	What are you on player?
	Yeah, so sorry, chat, I do have Windows 8.
	It came with the machine.
	I'm too lazy to reinstall shit.
	Jesus.
	You're talking like I'm not lazy as shit.
	Okay.
	Do you know who Mike Buchanan is?
	Yeah, he was the guy who was on the.
	He did that video that Linux taking over the asylum.
	Anyway, he ran on a Mentor's platform in some borough, didn't he?
	Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine he won.
	No, he came last.
	Yeah, I can believe it.
	Not that I don't like him.
	I find him very interesting because he's got terrible presence.
	He's not convincing.
	Not that I don't find him convincing.
	His facts appear to be correct as far as I can tell.
	I had a look up of the fact that he was quoting from the government.
	He does appear to have no idea how to play the PR game.
	No, not.
	He stutters a lot and sort of.
	And calling his tries to get the facts out, not realising that these people aren't interested in facts, Mike.
	Yeah, not even slightly.
	And calling his party Justice for Men and Boys and the Women Who Love Me.
	It's like, well, I don't think that you've done it from a place of bad intent, but nobody's voting for that.
	I'm sorry, nobody is voting for that ever.
	But, you know, the fact that nobody's voting for it at least demonstrates something.
	Well, yeah, but I think it demonstrates his lack of knowledge of public relations a lot more.
	It's much like when Nick Redding ran on the patriarchy party for his particular ward in Edmonton.
	Yeah, he did.
	It it was a joke.
	It was obviously a joke.
	Yeah, he he ran on saying all the thing we're the patriarchy and given that everyone believes in us, we're going to subjugate women and body bar.
	And he got like a hundred and something votes in his ward.
	Even though it was obviously a satire, some people in that ward had a sense of humour.
	And that's roughly the same amount of votes that Mark Buchanan got, doing it seriously.
	Actually, well, you know, not the patriarchy thing, but saying, can we please have a little bit of compassion for men and boys?
	And he got the same fucking response.
	But the thing is, I think that he got the same response, not solely because people, you know, society is weighted against men.
	And I believe it is, you know, in a lot of ways.
	I think that his problem is definitely PR.
	And he strikes me very much as a researcher.
	I'm sure he's a fantastic researcher.
	I'm sure he knows the subject very well, but he needs to hire someone younger and more charismatic than himself.
	And I'm certainly not suggesting myself before anyone says it.
	Well, I know that's how it works, but the very idea that you would have to do that sort of undermines the whole idea of putting a charismatic character in charge of the whole thing.
	That's where it starts to go wrong, isn't it?
	No, not really, not really.
	No, no, no.
	Thing is, I mean, I think it's sort of one of the an immutable law of human beings.
	You're never really going to get them all to be suddenly calm and rational and listen to someone who is.
	And I say this with love, Mike, duller's dishwasher.
	I like what he does.
	I think he does it quite well.
	But he's wasting his time in a lot of ways, I think.
	And it's something you can do on better.
	You know, there are men's rights activists on YouTube who make very amusing videos and occasionally have hangouts with me who would be a lot better at delivering this information than Mike Buchanan is.
	And I say that with love.
	But anyway.
	It's sort of.
	The only people who sort of even have the mindset to think outside of this box almost necessarily have to be sort of awkward enough to not have the stuff necessary to argue with these people.
	See what I mean?
	Sorry, I actually was slightly distracted there.
	What was that?
	Well, we're dealing with institutionalised cluster B here.
	People who just project their every intention onto the people they hate.
	And the only people who are into men's rights tend to be the opposite of that.
	The people who can overlook all the emotional reactions and look at the statistics.
	And those people tend to be sort of rhetorically boring people.
	So it's difficult to get anyone who's flamboyant enough to get through to our opponents while also having the facts on their side.
	And if you swing too far in either direction, you'll lose everyone.
	We're on a knife edge.
	We really are on a knife edge.
	And there's pretty much no one who could do it by themselves.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But I don't know.
	The thing is, I mean, I don't think it's quite as hopeless as it sounds.
	I think the manosphere is growing.
	The number of men who aren't necessarily men's rights activists but are just kind of pissed off with the way things are going.
	I think it's definitely growing.
	And I think feminism has red-pilled a lot of men about, you know, and I never use the phrase red pill.
	And so is Gamergate, by the way.
	I think Gamergate's growing.
	And it's possible that they're growing into each other in a sort of three-dimensional Venn diagram here.
	A lot of people started agreeing with Gamergate, and people started saying, What are you a men's rights advocate?
	And they went, What the fuck's a men's rights advocate?
	I just have a Gamergate.
	I went, Oh, that's a men's rights advocate.
	Okay, I guess I'm one of those too.
	And the same thing's happening in the opposite direction.
	It's like, okay, you people seem to really hate Gamergate and men's rights activists.
	I wonder why.
	Let's look into this.
	Let's look into the data behind this.
	Oh, I see.
	It's because you're fucking evil.
	For me, it's the constant lies.
	It's the constant lies from feminists to I just I mean universities are more safe than the surrounding cities that they reside in.
	Yeah, yeah, I went to university in Hull.
	Hull, my friend.
	Yes.
	You would not believe how different the university is from the city that's surrounded.
	Yeah, there was a I had a study, I remember the numbers, I can't remember where the study was, though.
	But it was something like, I don't know, 0.07% in the city and then 0.063% in the university or something.
	And it's just like, right, okay, so they're phenomenally safe.
	You know, I mean, they're just safer than I mean, I can't believe that they can persuade people there is a rape culture in universities.
	They have incredible powers of persuasion.
	They do.
	They absolutely do.
	I mean, you know, they use like the very tiny, the very small examples of like lads on a night out with a dirty chant.
	They have the media on their side.
	It's not like, you know, people go into university as a blank slate.
	They've been watching the BBC for most of their lives.
	But not only that, they do then communication courses and whatnot and become the media.
	And yeah, don't they?
	So they're very cunning that way.
	Well, you know, their hive mind is very cunning.
	Termites aren't very cunning.
	But, you know, I can't remember if I was saying to the other day, it scares me that they don't need to conspire.
	I would feel much safer if they actually had to conspire to get their job done.
	But all they have to do is say something that everyone agrees that they should agree on, and then they all agree on that thing, whether it's correct or true or likely or even possible.
	That's what I mean by that.
	The path of least resistance sort of leads to chaos in a bit of way.
	It leads to whatever people have been doing.
	And if there's a slight change in that, then the majority will keep going with it.
	There was a slight change a few millennia ago, and we've been snowballing from that ever since.
	It's just seemed normal with each passing generation.
	Yeah.
	I suppose, since we're talking about all these sort of things, did you see what's his name, Koretsky's post?
	Koretsky?
	Oh, the Society of Professional Journalists, the chappie who was going to, he's going to host a, I don't know, some sort of meeting or debate or something between Gamergates and anti-Gamergate.
	And for some reason, instead of inviting journalists to talk about corruption in games journalism at the Society of Professional Journalists, they invited an East Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, and he made a post talking almost exclusively about Zoe Quinn and harassment.
	The first fucking paragraph is talking about Zoe Quinn and harassment.
	It's just like, what are you fucking, what are you doing?
	What the fuck are you doing?
	Arthur Chu is the first line.
	Are you serious?
	Arthur fucking Chu.
	I mean, just literally, you know, Deep Freeze has got like, I mean, I don't know how many entries it's got, but it's got fucking loads of fucking entries.
	It's all categorized.
	You know, all the ethical violations are there.
	They are obvious to see.
	You know, fucking collusion, nepotism, cronyism even.
	You know, and then just how without fucking other examples.
	And it's, are you going to tell us that there aren't problems?
	I mean, this is the joke, isn't it?
	It's, you know, game journalism, it's so, it's always been corrupt.
	And this is what everyone's saying.
	it's finally reached a critical mass where it's got to the point where it's like look everyone's just sick of it and these people and that's the thing right these people weren't just so brazenly taking advantage it probably wouldn't be a problem they probably if they were just humble you know none of this would be happening I think Well, it's because I'm going to tell you last question again.
	It's not like this is the first area they've invaded.
	They did this with broadcast media.
	They do it with fucking print media.
	And they all just eventually bent over and said, okay, we'll realign everything we need to do for women and we'll carry on saying that we're realigning it for men because you say so.
	And this is really the first time they've done this and people have gone, well, hang on.
	We're not interested in that.
	Because we do things.
	This is, like you say, a media in which we're interested in participating, rather than just sitting back and watching what's going on.
	Yeah, it's interesting.
	I'm going to have to go for a urination right now.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Sorry, because of all the alcohol jerky.
	I trust you will be able to speak to these 1,500 people for roughly 60 seconds.
	I'm going to go now.
	So, how's it going, chat?
	Who else is drunk?
	And can you believe that Game of Thrones, eh?
	Who wants some spoilers?
	Seriously, though, fucking Jon Snow, really?
	He was like the last good guy.
	I thought he was going to survive.
	Pissgate.
	So, yeah, I'm kind of not angry at Koretsky or anything like that, but he seems to want to be sensationalizing this.
	And I think that's really not doing a very good service because the people who care are paying attention.
	Koretsky, that's the important thing.
	It's the people who this is going to influence are paying attention.
	And I can't imagine for a second if Gamergate gets a hearing at the Society of Professional Journalists, game developers and publishers and whatnot will not watch it.
	They will watch it, even if they don't talk about it.
	They'll still watch it.
	They'll still find out what happens there.
	You know, and then inviting non-journalists.
	Why?
	Why would you be doing that?
	You know, I think it's self-evident that Gamergate is in the right on this circumstance on the subject.
	And so this is, I genuinely think this is why they're desperately trying to constantly shift the subject, shift the topic of conversation onto anything else onto ground that they're familiar with.
	Oh, harassment against women.
	They know all about that.
	They talk about it non-fucking stop.
	And now I can hear you.
	Sorry, are you back, eh?
	Yes.
	I probably should have muted my microphone while I was disappearing for weird.
	Hi, how's it going?
	Why they're desperately trying to...
	Oh, yeah, yeah, good.
	Um, uh...
	Yeah, so I was just going off on a bit of a bit of an intoxicated rant.
	Good, good, good, good.
	Yeah, but just, I don't know.
	I just.
	Koreski seems to be being a bit sensationalist.
	And it's not necessary.
	The people who are going to pay attention are paying attention.
	Those who aren't.
	You're not going to get people in who aren't interested in Gamergate at this point, you know?
	I suppose it sort of extends to what ever Gamergate means.
	Like I say, in a way, gaming is the last sphere for social justice to invade, or for some precursor or other of social justice to invade.
	And maybe once we finally fight back against it, it's going to ripple back throughout all the other industries that have already been invaded.
	It's going to undo the invasion.
	Well, let's see.
	So maybe what we call Gamergate now is going to be the wave that undoes all the other shit.
	It's very possible that Gamergate will never end.
	And then it's going to set off something of a quite spectacular movement.
	I don't think it will in the video game industry.
	But I do think that there should be something else.
	Because the thing is, if you keep Gamergate very much laser-focused on the subject at hand and very much laser-focused on its winning card, they can't defeat ethics-engaged journalism.
	There's no counterpoints to it.
	There's no one who can be like, well, I don't agree with you.
	You're against ethical journalism.
	We don't need an ethics policy.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Do you remember the Enlightenment, darling?
	Yeah, exactly.
	As soon as you go to a place like the Society of Professional Journalists, Gamergate people will literally be quoting their code of ethics and saying that Steve Totilla did this, Nathan Grayson did that.
	These violate your own ethics.
	So if you're going to tell us they're not being unethical, you don't stand up to your own fucking code.
	And so, you know, you can't lose.
	You can't fucking lose.
	This is such an amazingly powerful weapon.
	And it's like, oh, let's make it about feminism.
	No, that's identity politics and shit and ideology.
	And they have a much better grasp of this sort of subject than you.
	You know, there's no point.
	We have an amazing battleground in ethics and journalism.
	This is like fucking Hannibal at Trebia.
	You know, it's like we could sit on top of the mountain and hide ourselves in the hills and wait for the Romans to walk past the lake.
	Or we could go stand next to them in the lake.
	Let's keep where we are.
	It makes so much more sense.
	It's like sending in some kind of sort of vascular die into the situation called we demand ethics and journalism and let's see which parts of the vascular system will light up.
	And feminism seems to light up and says, no, we demand that we don't need ethical journalism.
	We want journalism that is not necessarily ethical.
	And we go, okay, okay, we may have found the problem here, as Voltaire said.
	If you want to know who rules you, find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
	It's interesting, isn't it?
	They're the ones who are colluding.
	I mean, like with the Playfulest Political, where you've got Adrian Shaw just desperately saying to Silverstring and I can't remember who else is there off the top of my head.
	Literally, what can we do to get feminism into gaming?
	I mean, they're not doing it on merit.
	They're not making feminist games that people are buying for its innate qualities.
	So they're having to push the agenda in through the back door and through collusion.
	You know, it's like, well, you know, no wonder these people would be pro-corruption.
	They need corruption to get where they're going because they're not getting there any other way.
	Yeah, and the antidote to that appears to be ethical journalism.
	Exactly.
	So when you say this is what we want, they're going to try to fight against it using the most effective dare I say threat narrative they can think of.
	And that turns out to be you're all a bunch of misogynists.
	And now we all have to look at the situation of our society and say, why is that the most effective?
	If they start saying, oh, you're a bunch of misogynists, and then you go, yeah, well, we're also anti-feminism, you know, and then you start making the fight on an anti-feminist, and that just reinforces what they're saying in the minds of third-party observers.
	You know, they don't know that you're not a misogynist, especially if you start doing our phones.
	I'm not saying you are, don't get me wrong.
	But if you just stay keeping on ethics and journalism, then to any outsider, it makes them look ridiculous.
	Yeah, well, I say that the majority of the public aren't aware of what the cause of this anti-ethical anti-journalism is.
	Yeah.
	I don't know how long we have to maintain this balance or whereabouts on the tightrope we have to put the balance in order to slowly get the general public aware that these people are liars.
	Yeah, it's it's yeah, and they're doing it to push an ideology.
	It's you know, it's that they are corrupt people and they're prepared to be corrupt to advance their ideology.
	But like you said, to stop them, all you need to do is demand ethical journalism and then they can't do what they were doing.
	It's literally the answer.
	You don't need to attack feminism, Milo.
	And the same goes for men's rights.
	If you support men's rights, they will go completely fucking batch it.
	Well, of course they will be feminists.
	This is what they can't handle.
	If men have human rights and journalists have to be ethical, then their house of cards falls down.
	You know, these we haven't discovered the entire jigsaw puzzle, and we probably never will.
	We've lost most of the pieces.
	But these are the corner pieces.
	They don't like men having human rights, and they don't like journalists having to be ethical.
	Which all points backward in history to something very fucking dark.
	The opposite of what feminists are saying it is.
	You all get me.
	But this is the point, though.
	You know, just stay the course, guys, because we're doing so fucking well.
	You know.
	But yeah, so I was going to watch.
	I've been meaning to do like a video response to five more stupid things about the men's rights movement because I've not been called an MRA enough by the feminists yet.
	But seriously, I watched it and it's just Steve being a cock the whole way through.
	He's just such a dumbass, an absolute dumbass.
	So, you know, I thought, should we go through it?
	Yeah.
	One more time, Sharia.
	Oh, God.
	You've probably been through it already, haven't you?
	The five more, yeah.
	I mean, you bumped the video.
	You gave it the song.
	I probably did.
	I did watch it.
	I was just, I've got a lot, and I'm stoned.
	You know, I can't remember what I've liked.
	I'm looking forward to the Puritans go.
	Oh, my God.
	Look at it.
	He said he was stoned, saying, Oh my god, really?
	All of a sudden, I don't agree with anti-prohibition.
	Exactly.
	These are the people who we should arrest for eating herbs.
	Exactly.
	But seriously, kids, don't smoke.
	Eat.
	It's so much better.
	Why are you smoking for that?
	I've been.
	No, don't smoke.
	It's bad for you.
	You know, it's fucking.
	Smoking tobacco is bad for you because it's carcinogenic.
	There's reason to believe that whatever marijuana does to you actually attacks cancer sex.
	But I won't get into that because I'll probably embarrass myself.
	Maybe.
	I'm not convinced.
	But.
	Okay.
	Go on, Steve.
	Hey.
	So I recently held a poll with my Patreon patrons to choose which previous five stupid things topics.
	Sorry.
	You left that.
	I remember that comment.
	Yeah.
	That's probably what I heard.
	Yeah, I'm such a child.
	I should revisit.
	And first place was a tie.
	I covered the first half of the tie in the previous video in the series.
	So let's close this gimmick down with the second half of the first place tie.
	Here are the.
	I'm glad you're aware of the gimmicks, Steve.
	About the men's rights movement.
	Selective acceptance.
	Men's rights activists don't typically exist.
	Oh, there's Steve's amazing Photoshop.
	Hold on, Steve.
	Yes, yes, you were very good to point that out.
	Yes, that's very, very classy, Steve.
	He does have me blocked on Twitter.
	I didn't check, by the way.
	I saw the TLDS video and laughed along.
	And yeah, a couple of people said, hey, look, have you checked?
	And I'm like, no, I still haven't checked.
	I don't care.
	I will never care whether or not I'm blocked by Stu Shows and I will never check.
	So there's your answer.
	Someone in the chat is like, how bald do you think he is under that hat?
	And I can tell you he's quite bald under the hat.
	I actually watched another video of his where he's answering questions and he takes off his hat.
	And he's like, I've still got hair and he does have a tiny patch on the top of his head.
	You know, I shamed him enough for.
	I did think you're just trying to get laid thing more often than I feasibly should.
	So I'm done with taking the piss out of stuff like that.
	And I try not to take the piss out of people for their appearances.
	So fuck you for being bold cunt anyway.
	It doesn't matter, Steve.
	Yeah, you massy little shit.
	Throwing women.
	But there are exceptions.
	For example, women who agree with them that feminism is at best unnecessary and at worst oppressive and misandrist.
	Well, at least that is an accurate representation of their opinions.
	You know, I mean, you can say it like that if you want, mate, but it kind of is like that, isn't it?
	This whole video is dripping with Sargon's Law.
	Like every point.
	No, you know what?
	That's it.
	Women who reject feminism are highly favoured by MRAs.
	They're held up as evidence that theirs is a legitimate ideology based on facts and reasonable assumptions, not a hate movement based on projection, fears of inadequacy, and unhinged misogyny.
	Misogyny is, I mean, misogyny probably true.
	But I mean, that is a perfect description of feminism, isn't it?
	Including the misogyny, by the way.
	Feminism is basically unhinged misogyny.
	It severely unhinges misogyny.
	The hinge has broken off and fallen four feet in a different direction.
	I fucking love it.
	I fucking love that.
	Oh, women are just objects.
	It's like, really, who says that?
	I've never heard a man say that.
	And by the way, my response to this was along the lines of your saying non-feminists are ideological.
	And A couple of people coming to say, no, he's saying MRAs are an apology for.
	And my response to that is he's saying women are held up by MRAs as evidence that they're ideal.
	They're not held up, Steve.
	Like fucking prize pheasants that have been shot.
	They hold themselves up.
	Yeah, they are MRAs.
	It wasn't men who created women against feminism.
	Yes.
	Steve, women, you have to understand, Steve.
	Women are people, and even women you don't like are people.
	And they have their own agency, and they can do things for themselves.
	And you can tell in this section that he actually completely avoids any conclusion that women themselves can be MRAs.
	Yeah, exactly.
	As if this is somehow working against their interests or something.
	Yeah.
	You know, this is.
	It's just wonderful, Steve.
	Tell me more how women need assistance in society.
	Heath for sheeming.
	Women can't get along on their own.
	So, you know, just tell me more, feminists, about just how inferior women are.
	Anyway, if people are hating women so much, why are they feeling?
	I like to think he tried to do that laugh in more than one take.
	That laugh wasn't adorable enough.
	I'll do a different laugh.
	I'll tell you what.
	Oh, yeah.
	They'll love that.
	They'll love me for doing that laugh with the MRAs.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Look how condescending I am.
	I tell you, I'm glad we chose Steve Shives. To agree with them.
	Funny how that same logic doesn't seem to apply to men who support feminism.
	Atomic headdress!
	Jesus, Steve.
	Have you seen men who support feminism?
	Looking at these pictures, just so interesting.
	I mean, who's rating higher on the relative attractiveness to the other sex scale?
	You know?
	Dishonest denial.
	One of the most interesting phenomena surrounding the men's rights movement is how many men will strenuously deny having any association with it, even while parroting its talking points.
	Hey, that's probably me.
	Yep, that is you.
	I can't believe I am.
	You just.
	I'm not allowed to just have an opinion on an individual issue.
	It's you, it's Tilde, it's just everyone who said, hey, you're talking bollocks.
	Everyone who disagrees with this is an MRA.
	Because it just works like that when you're an identity politician.
	I said this in a comment in your stream you did with I'm a Sketch and Shoe.
	There are two particular phrases, right?
	But if you say either of these phrases to an SJW, that SJW would consider it a win for them, and they will make you keep saying it over and over again until you die.
	Phrase number one, I'm sorry.
	Phrase number two, I am not an MRA.
	When you say I am not an MRA, you are basically saying, I'm very sorry for advocating for men's rights.
	I won't do it again.
	Okay?
	It's exactly the same thing as when Joss Wheaton says, I'm sorry, and they go, oh, are you?
	Yeah, that's interesting.
	Are you sorry enough?
	Yeah, that's why you keep getting frustrated.
	When they keep saying you're an MRA, and you keep saying, no, I'm not an MRA.
	The only way out of this game, Sargon, is to say, I am an MRA.
	Now what are you going to do?
	Sorry, I'm sorry to put it like that.
	Say it once.
	See what their reaction is.
	And then stroll the fuck away.
	And they go, oh, I've said it.
	I've fucking said it.
	I understand what you're saying.
	But the thing is, the thing is I'm not.
	I mean, and that it's not that that's the thing is what my issue really is, is that he is unable to accept that people may have an individual stance on an individual issue, which is what I try to do.
	And yes, some of the chats like Steve Shars looks rapey now.
	Yeah, he does.
	He really fucking does.
	But that's the thing.
	I'm sure if you took any pause face of me, I'd look rapey, so I'm not going to judge him for that.
	No, you look kind of goofy, maybe, but not rapey.
	But yeah, seriously, Steve, if I take an individual stance on an individual issue, I'm not that bothered about circumcision.
	I mean, it's not mandatory, so I'm not personally bothered about it.
	So that would be an issue of men's rights activism that I'm certainly wouldn't be campaigning for.
	It's not something that really comes up for me.
	I'm not going to say that, oh, well, the men's rights activists shouldn't do that.
	I don't really care either way.
	But so this is what I mean.
	On that individual issue, I'm not bothered.
	On a lot of the other ones, I think I would probably come on the side of men's rights activism.
	But again, it's the individual issue at the time, given as many facts as I can assemble to produce as accurate a picture of what's actually going on as possible.
	It refers to an action at the end of the day, in the way that feminism does not.
	There's no getting around that he is a faction as well.
	I know, but if you say it would be quite nice if I could see my son in the event of a divorce and someone says, well, are you an MRA?
	And you have to say no.
	I'm afraid I'm not.
	I don't care enough about that course to talk about it.
	Yeah, I can see why that would be very, very annoying.
	But this thing is not that I want to join a club or anything like that.
	But on a lot of the individual issues, I agree because I just try to agree on individual issues.
	And I just try to take a fairly balanced perspective.
	We don't have the opposing artillery in a way.
	If someone advocates for men's rights in any way whatsoever, then someone can say, oh, well, that means you're a men's rights advocate, so fuck you.
	Well, that's the issue.
	And if someone advocates for women's rights in any way, it's not as if anyone's going to say, oh, well, you're a women's rights advocate, so fuck you.
	It's unthinkable that anyone would say that.
	Well, that is the issue.
	I mean, if, you know, I would, if, you know, there was a petition going around, like, you know, change the law so men had as much chance of getting custody of their children as women, I would sign that.
	You know, I think a lot of other people would sign it.
	And not because of labels or anything like that, just because it's as a human, you know, as a human who believes egalitarianism is the best way to treat people, you know, that is why I would do it.
	wouldn't be for any other ideological reasons you know, it would be But you already understand that that piece of paper can't exist, right?
	And the reason.
	And the reason it can't exist is because this is a very complicated issue that needs to be solved with, well, frankly, Sargon, the kind of thing that you and I both do.
	Yeah.
	But yeah, I agree.
	It's probably not going to get solved.
	No, it will it might.
	It might, you know, as long as we keep doing what we're confident that we're capable of doing and we don't get sucked into identity politics.
	Carry on advocating for men's rights.
	Right.
	And if people say, what are you a men's rights advocate?
	It doesn't matter what your answer is.
	It doesn't.
	If someone is not going to isn't is interested in not listening to what I'm saying, they're going to call me an MRA anyway.
	And they already do, you know, so it's fine.
	But I rather than you know, I may be advocating for the rights of men rather than for men's rights, because I think men's rights sounds like an organisation.
	It sounds like activism.
	I'm sure it doesn't sound like, but met rights of men and men's rights are exactly the same thing.
	Of course they are.
	Exactly.
	Of course they are, but language matters.
	And no, it really does.
	People pick up on it and say the rights of men is not an organization.
	There's never going to be an organisation called the Rights of Men Group.
	It sounds silly.
	You're going for this sort of abstract.
	The Women's Institute exists.
	It's existed for a long time.
	It originated in Canada, interestingly enough.
	Yeah, but I don't think you know what I mean, though.
	You know what I mean?
	And so I think it would be, you know, I think there's a definition that should be made there.
	Frankly, for you guys to be able to move forward, you know, like you're saying, it's, you know, the MRA thing, it's a big deal.
	So if you're- You keep saying you guys.
	Well, because you guys are a sort of group.
	I'm yeah, there's very few people I'm affiliated with apart from the honey badges.
	And we're just asking.
	And who are they affiliated with?
	Whoever will watch us.
	They're not.
	This is why I see them a lot.
	There's so many people in this so-called manosphere, which, you know, in this context it sounds like Gamergate calling each other you guys as though we're as though we're after different things and we're really not, you know, no, I know, I know, but this is why there needs to be a different term because the honey badges are as an established and self-identified men's rights activism.
	And Gamergaters.
	And Gamergaters, of course.
	And Gamergaters, not saying that they don't support Gamergate.
	But that's the thing.
	You know, a lot of different people support Gamergate.
	You know.
	So, yeah, it's not a label that defines a group necessarily.
	Or if it does, it's in the same way sort of Britain defines a group of four separate nations.
	So it's you know, so I mean, you are a distinctive group, at least I think in everyone else's mind.
	And so I think rather than saying, you know, what are you, you know, we're arguing for men's rights activism or men's rights.
	If you say the rights of men, then you sound like you're not part of a group.
	And, you know, you could be not part of your group, but still support the cause that you're currently espousing.
	That's why I like to say I'm a men's rights advocate and a women's rights advocate.
	Yeah.
	Because that, by any logical measure, counts as equality.
	But try saying that and see what people say.
	I mean, there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that I'm a women's rights advocate, of course.
	But there is doubt in your mind that you're a men's rights advocate.
	No, no, no, no.
	But it's the fact that it's a term that's become used for a group that I can't use.
	I'm more than happy to advocate for the rights of men in the same way that I'd advocate for the rights of women.
	In Iran or Saudi Arabia, I would definitely be advocating for the rights of women over the rights of men in those countries because they seem to have it objectively worse.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	We can talk about that perhaps on a later stream.
	Maybe, maybe they don't.
	I don't know I'm just saying from what I see you know I would have been happy to but it's again it depends on context and situation so So it's not like if we were saying that it really annoys me that people so often talk about the Middle East is always the opposite of the rights.
	I know, I know.
	It's really not.
	The men are fucked over just as much.
	I know they are.
	I mean, I was going to say, you know, if there was a particularly high suicide rate in Saudi Arabia, then, you know, and it was caused by whatever reason, I would be advocating for the people.
	Well, yeah, good luck finding any stats on Saudi Arabia.
	I would imagine the male suicide rates are higher there as well.
	Yeah, I would as well.
	But this was just my point.
	It was a hypothetical.
	But yeah, just, you know, it depends the subject.
	It depends what the facts of the situation are.
	And there's nothing wrong with advocating for a person's rights.
	But the problem is groups.
	And it's the same with feminism.
	It's the same with, and I hate to say it, men's rights activism.
	So don't get so hung up on that, man.
	Well, people can advocate for women's rights and say, I'm not a feminist.
	People can advocate for men's rights and say, I'm not a old shit.
	Do you see the problem?
	No, no, I see the problem that you see.
	But you've got to remember.
	But you can't even advocate for men's rights without people assuming you're in a cult.
	Whereas you can advocate for women's rights and say you're in a cult, and people will assume you're not in a cult.
	I personally don't assume it's a cult.
	No, but most people do.
	So we need to work on educating people at least.
	Just because you advocate for babies not being mutilated doesn't mean you're in a cult.
	Well, I don't see why anyone would think you're in a cult.
	Well, yes, you do.
	You know exactly.
	You know exactly why people think that's a good idea.
	I know the feminists have been, you know, running around and saying all kinds of things, but I mean, like, by watching, that's the thing.
	I mean, by certain groups, by watching their actions, you can see how the feminists have constructed that narrative.
	But when it comes to men's rights activists as groups, I look at you guys from the outside, and you just seem like a group of people who care about each other and want to do the right thing as they see it.
	Again, it's not like it's a factless position.
	Like I say, I see it as an action more than a group.
	It's an action that perhaps stains certain groups in a sort of spidery formation that bleeds out into other groups.
	There are certain PUAs who will advocate for men's rights.
	There are certain MGTOWs who will advocate for men's rights.
	There are certain feminists who advocate for men's rights.
	It's not just a block.
	It's a spidery block.
	Maybe Gamergate is more like Europe, and men's rights activists are more like Britain, and the individual groups inside the men's rights activists movement are like the constituent nations of Britain, then.
	Because people see MRAs as being distinct.
	I know I do.
	Yeah, but they don't see women's rights activists as being distinct.
	From feminists, no.
	No, there's your problem.
	Yeah, that's not a problem.
	They are equivalent terms, but they are not seen as equivalent.
	They are.
	But this is the propaganda war of the feminists that they've won very successfully.
	So that's at least the first hurdle we need to address.
	We need to do away with these arguments saying men's rights activism is the same as feminism.
	No, meninism is the same as men's activism.
	Men's rights activism is the same as women's rights activism.
	I don't care that you people all think that men have all the power.
	We get our dicks mutilated and we get enslaved and we get in prison for no reason.
	Fuck.
	The prison sentences is something really important.
	I know most of you people don't understand this, but it's true anyway.
	Yeah, women get 60%.
	What is it?
	Men get 63% longer prison sentences or something than women?
	Yeah, it takes an extraordinarily long time to explain all of this to the people who have grown up with the BBC.
	Unlike the fucking wage gap, it's actually with like-for-like crimes.
	It's actually for the equivalent same fucking judgment.
	Yeah, and like I say, to today's generation, it takes a long time to explain it to them.
	But if we stick at this by the time we have the next generation, and maybe the next generation after that won't need it to be explained for quite as long.
	Maybe sixty years from now we'll have a generation of people who finally understand, yes, it's a dynamic system.
	It's not just men fucking women over forever for no reason.
	That is well, yeah, I mean, I think the victim narratives are very much which care remote, Steve, because a bunch of people are like, get his fucking rapy.
	It's a good face there, Steve.
	And really, who can blame them?
	The men's rights movement is so toxic, so obviously fuelled by bigotry and male insecurity.
	God, he could just be talking about feminism, couldn't he?
	Yeah.
	He sounds like he's describing Twitter feminism.
	That even people who agree with everything MRAs typically say don't want to be taken for one.
	I'm all for women's rights, but I'm not a feminist, quote, and he's in, you know, quote, like any fucking celebrity these days.
	They're like the Spice girls.
	We're women's rights advocates, not feminists.
	It's like, fucking hell.
	It was so hard trying to respond to this point without pissing off all of the you guys who don't identify as men's advocates.
	It just cracks me up how he literally could be describing feminism.
	He really could.
	He's describing himself.
	If you're a guy who's harder to be able to do it.
	So, yeah, no, absolutely.
	Being called an MRA when you're not one, there's a real easy fix.
	Just stop being such a sexist crybaby.
	There you go, Sargon.
	You know that living, you know, that rent that you pay.
	You have to stop doing that immediately.
	And sit yourself down in a shop doorway and beg for special brew.
	I just love that I'm automatically a sexist crybaby.
	There's just is there any chance that I might be addressing ideologies rather than people or just you know don't worry, faith, we'll carry on.
	It's fine.
	I just hate women, man.
	You know, I just can't stand my own mum.
	I'm increasingly convinced that the only answer is yes, I'm an MRA and what of it?
	Fuck you.
	I'm going to keep doing my shit.
	I'm not becoming an MRA.
	I didn't say because I'll just say that sentence and see if that gets you more harassment or less.
	Because in my experience, I guess you're less.
	If you just say, yeah, I'm an MRA, what of it?
	They stop bothering you.
	They go.
	I can't make you say I'm not an MRA over and over again until I die.
	Now they have to go, oh, shit, you accept the identity that I won't let you accept.
	Now what do I do?
	I think that they honestly, whenever they hear me talk, I think that's all they hear anyway.
	I think they are convinced that I'm an MRA.
	In their minds, there's no doubt of it.
	So they treat me as if I was just saying directly to them, I am an MRA.
	Exactly.
	So they will smoke screen everything you say with this with this guy.
	This guy's opinions don't matter because he's an MRA.
	And they doubly don't matter because he won't admit he's an MRA.
	If you just lift that smokescreen, they'll think, oh, shit, he's actually an MRA.
	Now I have to listen to what he has to say, and now I have to pretend he doesn't exist.
	I'm happy to agree that men have rights that they need.
	When you get all these fucking articles saying all these MRAs are decades, they always point to fucking Paul Elen.
	They don't point to Payne 666 or me or Karen.
	They point to the fucking agency thing.
	The one guy that everyone hates.
	They don't point to Bain, the guy, the liquid-based guy who's actually supplying factual.
	Yeah, Bain is really good at Bain's fucking legend.
	And they don't point to me, the guy who's persuading people in an entertaining way to think of these things.
	No, they point to the one guy who everyone hates.
	Because if we point to the people that people like, then that might sway people in a different direction.
	It's just fucking obvious that they're not interested in harassment of critics.
	The men's rights movement is reactionary by its very nature.
	It lashes out.
	How could it be reactionary by its very fucking nature?
	How well everything is everything political is reactionary by nature.
	I mean, think about it.
	Because once upon a time, there was no politics.
	There was just nature.
	Now there's politics.
	No, no, I don't buy that, right?
	I mean, for us, I mean, what he's saying is that by saying reactionary, what he's saying is that you're arguing against the changes to sort of the trad con society that people, that feminists are constantly remembering or misremembering from about 50 years ago.
	You know, the society that none of us ever lived in and wouldn't know how to operate in if we fucking went back to it anyway.
	You know, like he's saying that you're reactionary to go back to a time when circumcision was illegal and men got custody of the children as much as women.
	There's never been a time like that, Steve.
	You know, they're not being reactionary against anything.
	You know, they're actually quite progressive like you.
	I mean, what, you know, it would be reactionary to want to be against men's rights, you know, as far as I can tell.
	And women and feminists in particular.
	On a daily basis, feminist writers and activists are deluged with hate mail and death threats from outraged men.
	Some, like Lindy West or Anita Sarkeesian, are arguably better known for being victims of misogynist harassment than for their actual work.
	Please give me your reaction, Sargon.
	Man, I am just like my hair's been blown back with the nonsense that's coming out of Steve Sha.
	Yes, Steve, that is, believe it or not, Steve, what you have identified then is exactly everyone's problem with these people.
	Particularly, we'll talk about any psychisons.
	I don't really know who the other person is.
	Neither are I.
	We literally, yeah, and so you have just done exactly what you're complaining about.
	I don't know anything about this other woman, but the only thing I know about her is that she's a fucking victim.
	Because that's all you've told me about her, Steve.
	Yes, Steve, that is the problem.
	That's the problem.
	Their work is so poor that being a victim is the way that they become successful, Steve.
	Do you see the issue?
	Do you see?
	No, you don't see.
	Others have been driven from the public sphere altogether, which is understandable, but is also a terrible shame.
	What?
	It's understandable that people drive them from the public sphere.
	How bad were they?
	Sounds like they were like lynching niggas or something.
	What the fuck?
	What the fuck are you talking about, Steve?
	It still feels like he's saying, yeah, you should probably fuck off, ladies.
	It's understandable that you can't handle this.
	It's just for the men, isn't it?
	He's just one sort of chank irrationality away from telling them to get back in the kitchen, isn't it?
	Way further gone than Chenk, I think.
	Really, I think so.
	Chenk got really emotional about it, though.
	It was really funny.
	I mean, why are you telling a woman to get in the kitchen, Chenk?
	You're a progressive, you dumbass.
	I still at least get the sense that Chenk is coming from a place of, you know, at least wanting to do this for the benefit of women.
	There's no point anywhere in Steve's response where I think I look at his face and think, oh, you're doing this for the love.
	I just think there's nothing in there except fucking people over.
	It's just this pinched up little fucking progent face.
	Just not even trying.
	Oh, angry, are we?
	Unable to intelligently answer their critics, they attempt to intimidate them into silence.
	And when that doesn't work, when they are unable to overwhelm feminists with the sheer force of abuse, they resort to other equally vapid tactics.
	Like a railness of distraction.
	Many MRAs engage in a sort of troll guerrilla warfare, infiltrating the comment sections of articles and videos that deal with how dare you go and talk to people about the issues.
	Infiltrate a public comment section.
	How dare you?
	You fucking awful MRAs.
	When feminists do it to anyone else, it's freedom of speech.
	Look at anyone.
	Look at this earnest motherfucking face as well.
	Look at it.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, Steve, we believe you.
	Yeah, I mean, there was a little fucking sign-up thing, and they're like, are you an MRA?
	Tick yes if you want to be blocked.
	And every MRA was just like, no, no, I'm not.
	This will show you.
	Women's issues, posting responses designed to paralyze discussion with irrelevant bickering.
	Sorry, are you saying critical theory?
	Because that sounds a lot like what critical theory is.
	I mean, I actually have a fucking thing here, Steve.
	In fact, I've got a perfect thing.
	Hang on.
	Literally, just let me get the thing.
	Right, here we go.
	It's something I'm going to do a video on, in fact.
	Right, Steve?
	I want you to pay attention.
	I'm not going to show everyone because I want to save it for the video.
	It's called Tool, Interrupting Microaggressions.
	And it's from the university.
	And microaggression example and theme.
	For example, alien in one's own land to a Latino American.
	Where are you from?
	Then the third-party intervention example is, I'm curious, what makes you ask that?
	Classic critical fucking theory.
	Absolutely classic.
	Designed to just completely pile drive any kind of conversation right there and then.
	Now we're not talking about the subject of what the initial interrogation was about.
	Now we're talking about the person doing the interrogating.
	further progress is going to be made it's a fucking that is exactly what feminists do Steve You projecting motherfucker.
	Demands that feminists identify legal rights available to men but not to women.
	That is what we call a reasonable question, Steve.
	I don't...
	That mine still boggles that he got from A to B just like that.
	Like, legal rights is irrelevant bickering.
	Like, it can't have taken many.
	You don't have to go many generations back into the past, Steve.
	Before saying legal rights is irrelevant bickering.
	Before every feminist in the world will tell you how fucking dare you say legal rights is irrelevant bickering.
	And yet you could just come straight out with it.
	Fuck legal rights.
	What are you talking about, Steve?
	What exactly are you fucking talking about that is so important?
	If it's more important than legal fucking rights, Stephen.
	I can't even imagine what he thinks is more important than legal rights.
	I'm just gonna s sit here going forever.
	Yeah, I'm not even I'm not even angry.
	I'm not even angry.
	It's just like I just I just just baffling.
	He's just baffling.
	It's like the last puzzle in the book, isn't it?
	The last puzzle in the crossword book.
	Of course it's hard.
	It's supposed to be hard.
	Or common.
	There's also the ever-popular appeal to bigger problems, in which the MRA will express his dismay that feminists aren't more concerned with the plight of women in developing countries or the Muslim world.
	He recently uploaded a video, right?
	He joined in with this.
	There's some kind of shelter in London for men's interests that recently got its funding cut.
	And he'd do a video saying, oh, this shelter in London had its funding cut, and none of the MRAs have said anything about it.
	And I.
	And basically, Steve, you need to say it's it's not like he gives a shit about those men.
	He just thinks that feminists should be more pissed off about it.
	See what I'm saying, Steve?
	That when you do the thing that you accuse us of doing, in your if you were in our position, you would say, fuck you for derailing the conversation to something different.
	I'm too drunk to fucking articulate.
	What a cunt you are, Steve.
	But you keep doing the thing you accuse us of doing.
	It's all I'm saying.
	This is what I'm saying.
	This is Sargon's law, man.
	An ideologue is making a character judgment about you.
	That's always going to be true about themselves.
	They can't seem to fucking help it.
	And the thing that crashed with us, I just had a fucking point I was going to make.
	Shit, what was it?
	Steve, your fucking face.
	I got stuck looking at your face thinking, why could anyone's face look that way?
	Oh, shit, I can't remember.
	Women in developing countries.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	appeal to bigger problems.
	Is that really...
	I don't think that's necessarily a fallacy, Steve.
	I think what you find that is, is people saying, look, man, like, that's not really a very big problem.
	While the biggest problem over here are women going, they're men man spreading on my trains, police please arrest them.
	And while there are bigger problems elsewhere that people could be spending their limited time on, Steve, they're not going to waste it on the fucking manspreading, you moron.
	The Muslim world.
	It's not that he gives a shit about those women.
	He just thinks that feminists should learn more about them and leave sexist American assholes like him alone.
	Every time I bring up circumcision to an echo chamber of feminists, what do you suppose the first fucking reaction is?
	Oh, fucking cry.
	The appeal to bigger problems.
	What about the women in the fucking Muslim world and developing nations where they get their labyrinth?
	Imagine women's parts being cut off.
	But let's go and invade the countries who are cutting women's parts off.
	Because fuck the countries who are cutting men's parts off.
	We're doing it right.
	And then it's always followed by, you know, why don't you cry about it?
	And it's just like, well, that's not very mature.
	You wanted a mature conversation and you want people to take personal concerns seriously.
	That means you have to take other people's personal concerns seriously.
	Because otherwise they're under no obligation to take yours seriously.
	You entitled motherfuckers.
	And I've still never encountered this argument, but one day I bet you anything I'm going to encounter it.
	Like the argument, okay, so babies may have their junk mutilated, but that's not men's rights, is it?
	That's babies' rights.
	I've never heard that, but that's no, one day I'm gonna hear it, and then I'm gonna, okay, so fuck the rights of fucking girls.
	Yeah, I can't imagine.
	I mean, well, I say I can't imagine saying that, but of course they're gonna fucking say that.
	There's literally no depth to which they won't plummet.
	So, yeah.
	Just another argument we keep getting is: well, if we make it illegal, if it makes circumcision illegal, then people are going to keep doing it, but underground in sort of illegitimate operations.
	And then I say, well, that's already happening with Muslim girls.
	You know, it's told that they get sent away to an uncle in Bradford to get an operation done.
	And if this operation was legal, then they would get it done in surgical circumstances, legally, with everything above board.
	And maybe it would be a bit less dangerous.
	But that's not going to happen now, is it?
	Because if someone mutilates a girl's genitals, it's against the law.
	It's grievous bodily harmony.
	They have to go to jail.
	But if someone does it to a boy, then it's absolutely fucking fine.
	On the plus side, Paul is on your side.
	Well, whatever.
	I just saw something in the chat.
	It's like, oh, Ive, go get your dick cut like a good guy.
	And it's like, that's a good point.
	You know, it's not like they're in favour of fucking getting circumcised, is it?
	So, yeah, the neo-Nazis are with you guys.
	Sorry.
	I didn't need to help them or you.
	Can't, Steve, what have you got?
	Still, this isn't the worst thing about the men's rights movement.
	When it comes to that, it's hard to get more disgusting and inexcusable than dick cheese.
	Yeah, you know that this isn't going to be half as bad as he's making out, is it?
	I really can't remember what it is, but I rape family.
	It's going to be something that's just not true.
	And yeah, I've paused on the best fucking faces of Steve Shadows.
	Rape apology.
	Fucking Steve, Steve, no one, no one, no one anywhere ever is committing rape apology, except for when, you know, women do it.
	Yep, that's that's what I went with.
	You know, the obvious response is to say, oh, we don't do that.
	But I thought I'd go with, fuck you, you do that.
	Yeah.
	So some of the chats like lefty poll is always wrong.
	It's like, yeah, it is the mirror image of Poll.
	Sorry.
	Men's rights activists attempt to minimise or dismiss concerns about rape in a variety of ways.
	Ignore.
	Well, when it doesn't happen, it doesn't need to be talked about.
	Or should we worry about the mattress carrying girls some more, Steve?
	The existence of acquaintance and spousal rapes blaming rape victims for being promiscuous or dressing too provocatively, spreading fear and paranoia about a not no, he's about to say spreading fear and paranoia about a non-existent epidemic.
	He's about to say epidemic about something other than rape allegations.
	I love, oh, Jesus Christ, everything about this is just literally back to front as well.
	I mean, that's, yeah, this is to be honest, Sargon, this is why I decided once and for all that I'm not going to shy away from the label men's rights advocacy.
	I know.
	Because if I learned this shit and I started saying to people I know, like, hey, did you know there are certain things that men are backing as well?
	And if I got the response in general, oh, that's, yeah, I see what you're saying.
	That's kind of true.
	I would have walked away, Sargon, going, okay, this problem will probably fix itself.
	But the reaction I got, Sargon, was not that.
	It was fuck you and your family.
	You've done something wrong.
	Fuck you and everyone like you who probably fucked up.
	You should take responsibility for your own decisions because it's so.
	This is why I went, okay.
	It's not just a few people on the internet.
	It's many people I know.
	Mostly hippies.
	Mostly fucking pseudo-Buddhists.
	Who think they're geniuses when it comes to compassion?
	And when you bring this up, they go, no, fuck you.
	Fuck everyone with a penis.
	They don't deserve compassion.
	Hashtag Q9, yeah.
	And they carry on saying this like they're fucking beacons of compassion.
	I think, well, okay, this is clearly a huge problem.
	Because, you know, people who think they're the most compassionate people in the world are the least compassionate people in the world.
	It's just, why don't you care?
	Why don't you fucking care?
	You know, the feminists really are the least compassionate people in the world, though.
	I mean, you know, the whole male tears thing.
	Can you even imagine being like just, I don't know, just like, oh, these people are complaining at you.
	Even the fucking Nazis.
	Even the Nazis didn't do Jewish tears.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And they were wiping them out.
	You know what I mean?
	What the fuck's sort of contempt?
	Do you like it?
	This is what happens if you have the equivalent of that if half the population happens to be Jewish.
	It's what you have to do with Jim College.
	Yeah.
	Half the population happens to be black.
	How do you work that?
	Well, this is how you work that.
	Yeah, you've got a lot to learn, everyone.
	And generally acting as though making rape an easier crime for men to get away with is their primary goal.
	Fucking hell, Steve.
	Right.
	Presuming guilt is the worst, probably the worst thing you can do to a person when it comes to justice.
	It's the opposite of justice.
	It's just the very nature of it is just fundamental.
	It's a universal wrong.
	I mean, Hammurabi's first three laws deal with the presumption of innocence.
	It's so fucking important that false claims aren't filed in any kind of law.
	It's the foundation of law.
	It's the first thing that comes up.
	It's how justice is established, Steve.
	And you're complaining that people are complaining that it's being rolled back in favour of feminism.
	You are such a thunderous cunt, Steve.
	You really are.
	I just.
	This is like my fucking trigger, man.
	I hate the presumption of guilt.
	It just undermines everything.
	Absolutely everything.
	If you are going to be the sort of society that presumes guilt, then you're the sort of society that burns witches.
	You know, fuck.
	Just oh, fuck off.
	Which it is.
	This is not a civil rights movement as it claims to be.
	This is a hate group.
	And, you know, I've, you know, I've accused feminism of being a hate group, but it's only within the context of a video response to someone who was displaying quite evidently hateful beliefs.
	People like Shives do it, just declaring men's rights advocates to be hateful people without a single fucking example of a men's rights advocate for being hateful.
	Not even Paul fucking Ela.
	He just sits there in front of a screen screen saying, all men's rights advocates are hateful.
	Like, no examples, no nothing.
	Just all of them.
	Fuck them.
	It's insane, isn't it?
	The balls of it.
	And just.
	If you were just playing this back with just big red screeching at someone, or that fucking.
	You know, the Canadian University one was saying, you're scum.
	You're scum.
	And you can tell she's enjoying it.
	And it's like, fucking hell.
	Steve, you know, I've seen MRAs look kind of sad and cry, you know, but I've never actually seen them, you know, yell your scum at feminists at universities and whatnot.
	Populated by resentful failures too weak to carry their own baggage.
	I carried my own baggage to fucking Calgary and back!
	No, no, no, bitch!
	That's feminism.
	That's feminism.
	Yeah, I know I've done that, but already, yeah.
	Everything, everything he's saying is just a playful female.
	For some of the most pathetic human beings known to me who can't carry her own baggage without bewildered fucking ape carrying her baggage from them.
	Literally, he's just like the most pathetic human beings known to me.
	It's like, well, did they get PTSD from Twitter, Steve?
	Are you serious?
	Are you.
	Their only redeeming quality is that there's so much damn fun to smack around.
	Shit.
	He's very definitely talking about feminism.
	Just fitting, since most of them seem to think that's all women are good for.
	Perfect.
	Thanks, Steve.
	The hardest part is only picking five.
	Catch you next time.
	You picked ten, though, didn't you?
	Yes, Steve.
	Well, that was absolutely magical.
	I'd like to thank Steve Shives for joining us.
	He's not an atheist.
	I'm quite confident in saying you, sir, are not a fucking atheist.
	Oh, God, no.
	God, no.
	He's.
	I really want to do the first one.
	I can't remember what his points in the first one were.
	Well, yeah, I just kind of nailed it.
	It was over two years ago, and I was someone who doesn't need an identifier.
	And then Tilde did a couple of weeks ago.
	Much of the same points.
	Honestly, I think I did as well at some point.
	But it's just.
	Yeah, but I didn't because I saw so many other people nail it.
	And then, like a month ago, he comes out with a new one.
	And I just with my hands outstretched thinking, oh, thank you, God, for this offering.
	Ah, good old Steve Shives.
	He doesn't fail to disappoint.
	And then Tilde.
	What do we have?
	What?
	So what?
	Is that the end of it?
	No?
	What?
	I don't think so.
	I keep looking at the screen on the YouTube stream.
	It's 30 seconds behind.
	Yeah.
	No, no, I just like to minimise the thing.
	But yeah, so he amuses me greatly.
	And I'm kind of disappointed that he's got me blocked, actually, because I would absolutely have a live stream with Steve Shives.
	And I wouldn't insult him.
	I just ask him questions about his beliefs.
	And, you know, that would be amusing in itself.
	I'm reluctant to do a live stream with anyone.
	I'm quite good at being nice to people in real time.
	I'm quite good at being nasty to people if I have quite a long time to figure out in advance how to be nasty to them in the nicest possible way.
	It's very different, isn't it?
	If I was pitted against a feminist in a live debate, I wouldn't do very well at all, and I'd rather avoid it.
	I think I've learned lessons that mean I probably do a lot better than I would have done a year ago, for example.
	Yeah.
	But yeah, there's there are quite a few of them I would love to talk to these days.
	Quite a few.
	Did you?
	Oh, fucking hell.
	Okay, right.
	I've got a video for everyone that you're going to love.
	Dr. Ruth is the 87-year-old sex columnist who, for the past several decades, has been dispensing mostly common sense and scientifically accurate sex advice until this week, when she went on record as saying that she believes that the holy book, the Talmud, has guided her to believe that sounds like the record Watson.
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay.
	and i'll see if i can fix your view so you can see it oh let's use well hey Men by their very nature are uncontrolled.
	Yeah, sorry.
	Triggered.
	Right, so what was she saying?
	I wasn't listening to any of her until this week, when she went on record as saying that she believes that the holy book, the Talmud, has guided her to believe that men, by their very nature, are uncontrollable animals.
	And, of course, because of that, women should never, ever, ever be naked in the same room as them, lest they be raped.
	Okay, I actually know what happened.
	Someone sent me it on Twitter because it was really Twitter drama, obviously.
	But basically, what had happened is that this Dr. Ruth woman had said something like, if you don't want to have sex, don't be naked in bed with a man.
	Which I think is really reasonable advice.
	I'm not even suggesting rape either.
	I'm just suggesting persuasion.
	If you don't want to have sex with a bear, try and not be naked in bed with a bear.
	Exactly.
	I'm not saying men are bears.
	I'm saying animals are animals.
	I'm just saying that, you know, when two people are in bed and one of them's naked and the other one wants to have sex with the naked one, both people end up naked.
	And stuff.
	You know, it's just, you know, it's just wise if you don't want to have sex and it's not something you want to happen.
	I'm sort of saying if you're a bear, right, don't climb naked into bed with a man.
	Had you all thought of that as the thing I was saying?
	No, you hadn't.
	Thank you.
	Fucking to quote Myers.
	Ruth says that she's very worried about the idea of a man and a woman laying in bed together when the woman changes her mind and decides that she would rather not have penis and vagina sex.
	Now, obviously, this isn't a rare viewpoint.
	We hear this.
	Did you have something else in mind?
	It's okay if it's anal, what?
	All the time.
	But Dr. Ruth is an extreme.
	Extremely intelligent and well-educated woman.
	But apparently, in this circumstance, she's decided to abandon her many years of education and instead rely upon a holy book.
	Usually the reaction to this sort of comment.
	I think she's probably just relying on common sense.
	She's probably just like, you know, just don't.
	It's just easier to not have sex if you're not naked.
	Is for most people to defend women, which is a very good reaction because this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to victim blaming.
	Blaming women usually for their own rapes instead of placing the blame on the rapist.
	I can't watch her face and not feel like she's just being the judgiest twat in the world.
	She's just like Steve Shives.
	You can't pause her and not have a really hilarious face to look at.
	The other angle, though, is how incredibly dehuman.
	Look at that judge.
	You're doing something wrong.
	For fuck's sake.
	humanizing this is for men as a woman I oh yeah she's really concerned isn't she You know, very convinced.
	Yeah, you're so bothered.
	It's so dehumanizing for men.
	Shut up.
	I would be so angry if someone was going around saying that men can never be naked in the same room as a woman without the fear that she might anally fist him.
	Yeah, but no, it's not that it's actually not the fear of being anly fisted that's the problem.
	It's he's trying to be you know he's trying to be more sort of conservative perhaps in that way.
	And so it's not that she's going to do it without his consent, it's that he will consent to it.
	She'll persuade him, yeah, you know, let me aimly fist you.
	And, you know, he may give in, and that's what he's annoyed about.
	That's what he doesn't want to happen.
	Well, imagine a man sort of slowly inching up to you with a mobile phone to his face, saying, I'm going to aimily fist you.
	As a woman, you'd probably say, okay, that's an interesting proposition.
	Why are you holding a phone to your face?
	But as a woman, if you approach a man saying, I'm going to aimly fist you, and you have a phone to your face, and perhaps you lean your finger to the number 999, or perhaps 911 if you're in America.
	Then that man will immediately understand what you're saying.
	He's saying, either I'm going to only fist you or you're going to a jail cell tonight, motherfucker.
	That is power, bitch.
	That is powerful.
	Or forcing him to put his penis in her vagina.
	It's ridiculous because women are not insane, uncontrollable animals who are completely at the whim of their desires.
	And you know what?
	It turns.
	Turns out, according to the science, neither are this why they're going to call me.
	You hate women, oh, fuck off.
	Men.
	There's been no scientific evidence to suggest that rape happens because men just in general become overwhelmed with their own desire and are forced to take it out on the nearest woman.
	There have been a lot.
	You know what, right?
	I bet there are a lot of rapes that are caused by that.
	I bet there are a lot of rapes.
	I mean, I don't know the stats because I always hear feminists say, well, it's about power.
	They want to dominate.
	It's about power.
	It's like, you know what?
	Is it always, though?
	I mean, I don't know, but it just strikes me it's unlikely to always be one thing.
	It might be, but you don't assume that a desire for power is caused by already having power.
	A desire to exert power and dominate someone may come from a lack of power in the first place.
	Maybe.
	A lot of really interesting studies on how people think when they are sexually aroused.
	One in particular, Dan Ariele's Heat of the Moment, is one of my favourite studies because it involved having men masturbate and then rate how attracted they were to certain people, things, and ideas.
	And when you came up as a thing, they were like, pass.
	I look at the internet a lot and I wank a lot.
	And occasionally those things come together.
	Occasionally I'll have just finished a wank and then I'll go back to my normal YouTube thing and I'll look at Rebecca Watson's face and I'll think, wow, you look like 12% uglier than you would have done if I hadn't just wanked.
	And that's about it.
	What Arielli found was that when men were in the process of masturbating, they were much more likely to say that they were sexually attracted to things that they found off-putting when they were not masturbating.
	While they're in the process of masturbating, they said this.
	But that just doesn't exist.
	To be honest, darling, I. Hang on.
	I'll just be with you in a second.
	Well, what I personally find attractive, it hang on.
	Hey, but does doesn't this actually contradict what she's saying?
	I mean, it's it sounds like it contradicts what she's saying, but you know, men's judgment is impaired.
	Men are prone to make silly decisions or, you know, bad decisions or different decisions while they're having while they're, you know, feeling aroused.
	And so, you know, maybe the the judgment impairment might come to rape, which would be an outlet to release the arousal that they've got.
	I mean, it doesn't strike me as particularly unlikely that a good deal of rapes are due to sexual excitement.
	Would you judge a man's general reaction by what's going on in his brain when there's serotonin and dopamine flushing through it?
	Like, yeah, if a man had just taken three heads of acid, would you say, well, okay, what's going on in his brain now is normal.
	And if you, you know, measure what's going on in a man's brain while he's wanking, do you suppose that's normal?
	Exactly.
	That's not the same thing.
	It's serotonin and dopamine.
	It's not normal.
	Exactly.
	And I can see that leading to behaviours that aren't necessarily normal as well.
	Not that I'm trying to justify anything here, but it's just, I just don't buy the whole, it's always power.
	I just don't buy it.
	And they said that they were more likely to be interested in immoral behaviours that might lead to having more sex.
	So rape.
	They might be more likely to rape when they're sexually excited.
	So if you're in bed with a naked woman and you were previously having sex and you said stop, it might be sensible to get dressed.
	Is what you're saying, Rebecca.
	It's an interesting study, but it's worth bearing in mind that it was only done on 35 male students who were self-reporting.
	Although admittedly, the self-reporting was done in a very entertaining manner since it involved a special program on a laptop that was covered in plastic before given to the students to take home and conduct the study.
	Okay, well, we won't change any laws on it then, you know, but for like a kind of this kind of small disagreement and oh god, look at her face.
	You know, just for the sake of argument, you know, and we don't have anything better.
	You know, if we mean, maybe we could commission a larger study for guys wanking.
	You know, thousands of guys wanking and being asked their opinions on things and how likely they are to rape something.
	And if it turns out that the likelihood of them wanting to rape something goes up when they're wanking, then maybe some rapes are caused by sexual arousal.
	Maybe it's not just a power trip, and maybe that's the feminist opinion of why they would wank because it's fucking projection.
	Because everything about feminism is a fucking power game.
	Because for a woman to wank, they need to imagine someone here.
	A rapist raping them.
	It has to be a power trip.
	For a guy to wank, he just needs to have a dick.
	He has to move it up and down periodically for a few minutes.
	Which is a really great euphemism to use in general.
	Also, the study was about what they were thinking about and not their actual behaviours.
	And as we can tell from millions of really weird... We know what their actual behaviours were.
	I'm going to need to go for another piss.
	That's how flaccid I am, right now.
	Okay, carry on.
	I come confident you can do this.
	I appreciate your confidence in me.
	Porn channels.
	Our desires don't always or even often match up to our actual behaviours.
	Meanwhile, all of the studies that do look at men's actual behavior when they rape show that it's not at all like them just turning into an animal due to sexual desire.
	Go on then, keep cherry-picking, Rebecca.
	Instead, a lot of rapes are actually premeditated, and they don't happen in the heat of the moment.
	Yeah, but what you're describing, Rebecca, I think, is the sort of Jeffrey Dharma-style person who's the sociopath who's like, yes, I'm going to rape that person because I want to rape that person.
	You're not thinking of like horny college students who end up going too far when in the heat of the moment.
	You know, you're completely discounting that by saying, well, this study was only done with 35 men.
	Yeah, well, they're still men.
	And I think that what you're talking about, Rebecca, is essentially an almost universal male characteristic.
	You know, it's like, oh, yeah, but we only found out if 35 men had cock and balls.
	But, you know, we can't apply this whole, we can't apply this whole fucking study to the whole human race.
	It's like, well, maybe not.
	But maybe, maybe it is a constant.
	And again, I'm not justifying anything with this.
	I'm just saying I don't think it's all about power.
	So the idea that men are animals that can't control their desires isn't one that comes from science.
	It's one that comes from things like religion.
	It comes from the fucking balls, Rebecca.
	For fuck's sake.
	Does anyone remember that the lady who dressed up as a man?
	I can't remember her name now, which is a shame.
	I did the thing a few videos ago, and she's like, you know, for men, it's a very physical thing.
	It's like, well, there we go.
	You know, she at least has some idea of it.
	As Dr. Ruth shows.
	So I really hope that Dr. Ruth maybe takes a few classes on sexual psychology, a few refresher courses so she knows.
	I'll tell you, man, for all the advantages that Honey Jack gives me in terms of not giving me hangovers, it makes up for it in urinal traffic.
	See, that's another good thing about Wanda.
	But I love how you can't take a good picture of Rebecca Watson.
	She's a lot like me.
	You just can't take a good picture of them.
	Look, this is a problem I encounter all the time in editing my videos.
	I encounter as many of my own paws faces as I do other people's.
	And in many ways, you're right not to do myself.
	Yeah.
	Because pause faces are always bizarre.
	You know, I often wonder, would I have more or less subscribers if I didn't show my face?
	Like you and like TLD.
	I have no idea.
	Maybe not showing your face actually adds an extra layer of empathy.
	Mystique.
	If you happen to be a man.
	People don't like knowing that you're a man.
	I don't know, man.
	I really like that you show your face in your videos because you use that to comedic effect.
	Just giving a look at some points is funny enough, you know.
	Yeah.
	We don't see enough of sort of men reacting to women.
	Yeah, yeah, because some of them is really funny.
	It's just ridiculous sometimes.
	But yeah, I don't know, man, but I like that you have your face in your videos because you're good at making me laugh with your face.
	That's hopefully not as awful as it sounds to me.
	I'd rather can fill a niche in one way or another.
	Fill your niche any day.
	Yes, go back to Watson.
	Well, I think we've... ... knows what the current thinking is regarding actual human behavior, because really, I know she's 87...
	Oh, bitch, you're the one who's complaining about a guy asking out for coffee in an elevator.
	Do not talk to me about actual human beings.
	When it didn't even fucking happen.
	Yeah, exactly.
	When it didn't even fucking happen.
	You get so few propositions that you have to make one up and then complain it.
	But even if it happened, exactly as you said, it's the least intimidating or threatening thing in the world.
	You know, would you like to come back and morrow for coffee?
	No, thank you.
	Okay.
	Just like, yeah, Samadon Daddy used to paint things that he used to see in his sleep.
	Weird fucking faces floating over landscapes held up on crutches.
	But he just painted it and paintings have said, look, it's not real.
	Rebecca Watson takes the thing she sees in her fucking subconscious and rather than paint it with any technicality on a canvas, just paints it onto reality and goes, look, look, there's art in my cunt.
	You need to give me money.
	Fuck you.
	It's just the worst.
	Anyway, it's coming on one here and we've been going almost three hours.
	So I think I'm going to go flake.
	We have.
	Okay.
	But no, thanks a lot for joining, man.
	It's been really cool.
	I don't often get wrecked and just talk shit.
	And I'm glad that I could get the video watching thing working so we can all watch videos.
	I'll do this again in the future now that I know it works.
	But yeah, so that's awesome.
	Yeah, thanks a lot for joining, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	It's been really cool.
	No problem.
	I'm always here.
	Well, not usually on Mondays, actually.
	It's desperate luck that the one day I have a Monday off work.
	The king of a card calls me.
	Well, I just thought, fuck it.
	Would it be fun, wouldn't it?
	Yeah, like I say, anytime you won't, we sat there on Mondays or Fridays.
	Actually, fuck it, whenever you want.
	You're bigger than these people, so I'm going.
	Mate, don't do that.
	Numbers cover something.
	It's Skeptor and Goodfellow, isn't it?
	Yeah, you should come on.
	I will.
	When you're not dealing with your baby, I know babies are important, but those guys have babies as well.
	And they can find a cupboard to shove them into, so why can't you?
	No, well, it's the things, it's more that they just happen to be asking at the wrong time.
	So I've just moved house and I've got a lot going on.
	And it's just I've just been really, really fucking busy.
	And so, you know, it's just been stuff has come up and I've had fuck all sleep or something.
	And, you know, it's just been bad timing.
	It's not, it really isn't that I don't want to go on there because I do want to go on.
	I like Goodfellow and Skeptor a lot.
	So, you know, it's not.
	It's like with the comments and messages situation, it reaches a point where you can't possibly respond to all the things you have to respond.
	It's like when people become vets because they love animals and they spend their entire career killing animals with these and then people like you and me like do this because we want to reach people and get through to them and extend some empathy to them.
	And then we spend most of every day ignoring comments because we don't have time.
	Yeah, I get a lot of comments that I just favourite and have to carry on with because I've got comments, man.
	It's not that I don't want to answer them stuff.
	And I get people emailing and go, I'll take exception for something you said.
	And then recently some guys been like, oh, see, I know you've only replied to one of my five emails and it was the antagonistic one.
	I was like, man, it's not, I don't want to talk to you.
	It's just that it was the quickest one to respond to.
	And, you know, I had other things.
	Sorry, it's not as easy as it sounds.
	I know it sounds stupid, but it's like, you know, you get a lot of people talking to you.
	And I like talking to my fans, my audience, and stuff.
	I really like it.
	But it's just.
	I think people forget that I'm just one man, you know?
	And it's uh yeah.
	No one goes into this thinking they'll get this message probably.
	Well, some people do, but they're generally narcissists.
	And they're not gonna talk to you anyway.
	Yeah, I d I didn't think so, man.
	I I guess I'm just making excuses myself now really.
	But um yeah.

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