Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin - A Conversation with #GamerGate and #NotYourShield (17⧸10⧸2014)

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Oct. 16, 2014 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin

04:46:39

A Conversation with #GamerGate and #NotYourShield (17⧸10⧸2014)

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	Hello, everyone.
	I thought we'd do just a bit of a kind of open house to talk to people from Gamergate who don't really have much of a voice.
	Because I've been worrying a bit that there have been a lot of people who maybe have something important to say, but by circumstance, they don't really get heard too well.
	So I thought that what I'd do is just allow people to come on for like 10 minutes or something, or for however long, you know, two minutes, however long they wanted, just to make a point or say something, or just say something nice to someone else.
	I don't know, for whatever reason, just what they would want to say to people in Gamergate, or just whatever they want, or not your shield, obviously.
	I assume it's included in when I say Gamergate.
	So yeah, have we got anyone who's actually wanting to come on yet?
	Yeah, I'm just about to drop one on.
	Who is it?
	It is Mr. Schultz that I just mentioned.
	I'm just going to DM him the link.
	Okay, look.
	I actually know this is a YouTuber called Sergeant Schultz Brigade.
	He's a small YouTuber.
	He's got about 400 followers, but he does very good videos and he always does them playing a game.
	He's playing a game over them.
	I don't know whether he narrates it afterwards and just uses that as a backdrop or whether he's actually narrating while he's playing.
	He could be either, to be honest.
	I have no idea.
	But he's a good bloke.
	I don't really know him, but he seems good from just, you know, his videos.
	And he's involved in teaching.
	And so you can imagine with what's going on in academia, this is all distressing him.
	And I know this because I had him on a stream the other day.
	So yeah, where is he?
	I've sent him the link.
	He hopefully should be coming.
	I'm just trying to organize.
	Can I just ask people not to completely spam?
	I will get to as many as I can get to because already the updates have come through quite a lot.
	Ah, okay.
	I'm glad I've got you here, to be honest, because I really, yeah, I couldn't have done this on my own.
	Thank you.
	It's okay.
	I'm going on chronological order.
	Cool.
	That's first come, first serve.
	That's the British way.
	If you wanted to be here, if you wanted to be on him first, you should have got here earlier.
	Hello.
	Are you there?
	Hello.
	Hello.
	How's it going, man?
	Oh, good.
	What's up?
	I actually got a good interesting thing.
	One of the teachers actually brought up Gamergate in the school.
	Really?
	What happened?
	Actually, what it was, it was one of the department heads, and it was associated.
	What school and where it was, or whatever you can tell us.
	Sorry.
	I would prefer for my own security because these are very rabid fanaticals.
	That's fine.
	Can you tell us at what state, perhaps?
	It's okay if you don't want to.
	Just to give people some context, that's all.
	But don't reveal anything you don't feel comfortable revealing, okay?
	Let's just say the highest gun capital murderer in the Union and probably the world.
	That narrows it down for anyone who knows gun control laws.
	I don't, so that means nothing to me.
	But yeah, so please tell us more about what happened in the school.
	Oh, the sociology department, well, they're more Marxists, but they brought it up and I was laughing because they first went off on a tangent and I was wearing a suit, so they actually thought I was a professor, so I was able to kind of not get my teeth kicked in by an administrator right away.
	But they were just talk they were talking about how the typical, oh, this is just misogyny.
	And I just started laughing.
	It's like, so it's misogyny.
	I got belligerent.
	I just had one of those days like, you know what?
	Fuck this crap.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I told him piss off, too, afterwards, but it was just.
	Well, don't get yourself in trouble over Gamergate because, you know, it was just, I just, he just looked at me because I was just, it was like one of those days, but he's like, oh, it's misogyny.
	And I'm just going back.
	He's like, says, where are you getting this misogyny from?
	And then it was at Huffington Post.
	Oh, God, yeah.
	Yeah, and I started laughing.
	He's like, well, do you play video games?
	Well, no, they're beneath me.
	They're childish.
	And I begin laughing because I point out Spec Ops align, which is the modern equivalent of Heart of Darkness.
	Or it has attempts through mechanics and story-wise.
	Really?
	What, Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness?
	Yeah, it took inspirations from them.
	That's very interesting.
	Oh, yeah.
	I recommend everyone reading Heart of Darkness.
	I wrote it a few years ago.
	No, I had to read it for a history course.
	It's not very long, is it?
	It's short, but it's impactful.
	And I pointed out, like, if this was childish, why would this game be kind of trying to shock you with violence, trying to make you hate violence, trying to bring up PTSD and legitimately getting your face that you send kids to war, you send people overseas to fight.
	You're fucking them up physically and mentally beyond belief.
	And he just looks at me like this, like this completely stunned.
	And what made it funny is I'm average height, but this guy was like a six-foot giant.
	And I just look at him, and I'm just laughing at him like, I just say, don't mess with gamers.
	We're smarter than you think.
	We're not this stupid little kids.
	We're not the fat basement dwelling troglodytes that you want to believe.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	He goes, you're a gamer?
	You can't be.
	And I look at him, why not?
	Well, well, well, well, he goes, well, you're not fat.
	I just look at him like, and I start laughing.
	Yeah, and I can bench up almost 200 pounds.
	What's your point?
	I love that.
	Is this conversation the actual conversation you had?
	Or am I.
	No, this is not hyperbole.
	This is the school I'm at is this is the actual conversation you had, and he was genuinely shocked that you were a gamer.
	Yes, these people are not really that swift that are against it.
	They're just they like talking points, but they don't go further into it.
	And legitimately, like after the guy left, we just got into this massive discussion about games and stuff like that.
	And many of them that are gamers just recently heard about Gamergate.
	And they said it was just because I think on the news that they made this big deal about it.
	And they're like, they said that they know of me in the school because they start laughing.
	It's like, they always see this guy just walking by, moving the class, and like everyone talks, oh, that's him.
	Like, wait, am I known in the school?
	He says, yeah, because you got tired and you just don't take shit anymore.
	That's awesome, man.
	That's really fucking awesome.
	Oh, yeah.
	It was great.
	Okay, that's a great story.
	I really enjoyed hearing that.
	And I'm very surprised that that was exactly as it was.
	I'm not doubting it.
	I'm just saying, wow, you know, I would have been more moderate than that.
	I had a really frustrating day.
	I ran into that woman who made that statement of there's only racism and sexism in America.
	And just she said another stupid one.
	I'm like, I just got a headache.
	I don't want to listen to this shit.
	Okay, man.
	Are there any other points you want to make?
	Can we?
	Actually, I was going to say, it was like, with a lot of the journalistic stuff, oh, there was an article.
	I think I tweeted it to you.
	I can't remember off the top of my head, mate.
	It was a Black Ops director saying he brainwashed people into buying the game.
	I don't recall seeing it, but if you could tweet it, can you I I follow you, I think, so if you can private message me, that'd be good, because that sounds very interesting.
	It won't let me direct message you.
	I can only tweet it to you.
	Doesn't it?
	Yeah, it's a text handle.
	What's your account number?
	Name thing.
	Let me see.
	I barely remember my account.
	It is.
	I follow you on Facebook.
	Oh, yeah.
	I'm trying to see Twitter.
	It's just at Schultz Brigade.
	Yeah, you're following me, but it's just I'm going to tweet it out just myself, but it's just.
	Okay.
	Well, yeah, okay, man.
	So is that.
	I'll look at that.
	I'll probably include that in a video at some point, to be honest.
	That sounds the sort of thing that requires study.
	Was there anything else?
	Actually, I was just going to say, I think it was like a lot of them.
	There was a couple articles.
	This was a while ago talking about.
	It seemed like being an honest gamer and doing actual critiques was not cost-effective.
	It's easier with clickbait.
	And I was laughing because there's several YouTubers.
	I think it was like they actually break down video games in a academic critical way.
	And many of them, I mean, some of them have brilliant stuff and they are some great and wonderful things to get a hold of and see.
	But I think a couple of them closed down their account, sadly.
	Really?
	Hmm.
	Okay.
	Right.
	I've got the next chap lined up.
	So.
	Do you mind?
	I should have mentioned it.
	After you guys have made your points, is alright if you just leave.
	So it's a one-at-time thing, so everyone can say exactly what they want.
	And there's no, you know, and then you carry on listening in the chat or however people want to.
	Gotcha.
	See you guys.
	Okay.
	Next guy, Justin Little.
	And just got his own little point to make.
	Just send in the link.
	And I'm just going to go back and find some more people.
	Okay, cool.
	I appreciate that everybody has not the spamming has stopped.
	That's good.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	That is good.
	Because I didn't know what the response would be like.
	So I didn't think.
	Sorry, guys.
	Sorry.
	Sorry, Cubs.
	Yeah, Gawker are digging their own fucking grave, aren't they?
	I mean, just the things their staff members and the other people are saying, it's insane.
	Hello, Justin.
	Hello, Am I. Can everybody hear me?
	I can hear you just fine.
	Well, I was hit with an analogy during Twitter conversation, and it was along the lines of if there is a town that has many restaurants that serve cheesecake,
	because cheesecake is popular, and I assume that they're using to substitute games, that there are some people who are coming in to say, oh, we don't like cheesecake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
	Can we propose an alternative?
	And that is what I believe that the anti-Gamergate people truly believe that they're fighting for.
	But in reality, this would be if people were coming in and ordering the restaurants to serve things other than cheesecake or to serve what they please because it doesn't apply to them or it doesn't suit them.
	I think it's worse than that.
	They're telling everyone else that they don't even like cheesecake anymore, aren't they?
	Yeah, yeah, I would say that.
	Or that, you know, eating cheesecake promotes unhealthy lifestyles and they need to stop immediately.
	Yeah, I think that's a really good analogy.
	I do believe that the anti-Gamergate people believe that they're fighting for a noble cause, but I think they've just been misled.
	I agree.
	Yeah.
	I know, I do agree with you.
	I think that they genuinely think that they're doing the right thing.
	Very few people genuinely try to do the wrong thing out of malice.
	I imagine that some probably don't believe it to the extent that others do, but I think the real Died in the Walls probably believe it.
	So yeah, I just wanted to chime in on that one.
	Is that the only thing you needed to say?
	Nope, that was it.
	I just wanted to sort of give some insight onto maybe why anti-Gamergate became such a big deal.
	Great.
	Thanks for coming on.
	No problem.
	Take care, man.
	You too.
	All right.
	I just didn't expect that one to be so brief, so just bear with me one second.
	That's right.
	Just people come on, say what they need to say.
	I do need people to add me rather than just tweet me.
	So I've got to go to the next one.
	Yeah, we've got to follow Kerbs.
	This isn't just a way of getting him more followers either.
	It's just much more.
	No, feel free to delete me afterwards.
	Yeah, I don't think he actually wants a lot of followers.
	He pisses me off.
	I have to do the talking.
	He's my Jonathan Macintosh, basically.
	Oh, thanks.
	Don't go full Macintosh, mate.
	I'm not.
	You use that.
	You own that.
	Wait, I fucking love that.
	He is just such a fruitcake.
	All right.
	Next one.
	I'm just sending the link in to a chat called Liam Crota, I think.
	Okay.
	Or Crota without the H.
	So he should be next on the list.
	Liam Crota.
	Okay.
	Oh, and the fourth guy sounds quite interesting as well.
	Well, we'll just wait for Liam to arrive.
	I'll see what the chat's asking.
	Someone asked, can they come on?
	Yeah, you can, of course.
	You need to follow at Curbs101 with a K and then DM him.
	And he'll send you the link to join.
	And just join in turn.
	And when you've made your point, if you don't mind leaving so other people can make their points, that would be great.
	He is terrible, but he's got an amazing set of tits.
	So, you know, someone just said Sargon, your secretary, is terrible.
	Is that nice?
	That is awful.
	I have got some fantastic man, babes.
	Gorka gave us Amma for a boycott.
	You should already be boycotting Gorka.
	Seriously, everyone probably should.
	Gorka is, oh, just, I don't know.
	I haven't even got a good analogy for them.
	They're that bad.
	Okay.
	I'm going to give people a chance to come on the stream.
	That's fine, but you have to be ready to do it.
	Yeah, yeah, sorry, I should have mentioned that.
	Yeah, it's okay.
	I don't want you to miss your slots, guys.
	Yeah, basically, if you can, yeah.
	Just uh yeah, sorry, I've just kind of lost my train of thought.
	Um because people were saying things in chat, and I've tried to pay attention.
	Um, yeah, if you can um be punctual and make sure that you're ready to go when you get the link.
	Um so tweet when you're ready to go.
	And you know, sorry, it's we're doing a queuing system, so you're all gonna have to abide by British law here.
	Um and you'll wait your turn.
	And if you're not ready when the queue is up, I'm afraid you lose your turn.
	You have to go back to the queue.
	Cues are harsh, but fair.
	Mr. Liam, you're playing it close, mate.
	Come on, Liam, get your act together.
	Gorka is like Hitler, but not in a good way.
	That is a surprisingly accurate assessment of Gorka, but not of Hitler.
	But no, Gorka are.
	They're like the opposite of Hitler.
	Gorka are like, they're just bait.
	Everything they do is bait.
	You know, you want to be just, oh my god, something's happened and it's amazing, or it's awful, or it's terrible.
	It's like, look, don't tell me how I fucking feel.
	Just tell me the information.
	I'll tell you how I fucking feel.
	All right.
	I'm going to have to move this on.
	Come on.
	So, yeah, Liam.
	Sorry, we're going to go for someone else, man.
	I don't want to be the one talking too much.
	I actually wanted to hear from everyone else.
	Oh, no, he's just arrived.
	Oh, he has just arrived.
	Hello.
	Hi, Liam.
	How's it going?
	Yeah, good.
	Thanks, you.
	Yeah, yeah, good.
	What would you like to say about Gamergate and Not Your Shield?
	Well, basically, just the general hypocrisy of some of these so-called journalists.
	I mean, in particular, I think you brought into discussion in one case where a reporter for the Independent newspaper, British newspaper, I believe, basically just came out and said, literally, just did not do the research on Gamergate.
	And I mean, it's kind of symptomatic of just reporting on Gamergate in general, and it's not on.
	These people are not doing their jobs.
	It's just us the professional journalists.
	I mean, I do reporting on football, stuff like that.
	And it's not the obviously not the same scale, but you've got amateur journalists out there who are actually doing the research on stuff.
	You've got sites like Niche Gamer, TechRaptor, who are actively reporting on Gamergate.
	And you get the impression sometimes maybe that, okay, sites like TechRaptor benefited a lot from Gamergate, and maybe there is a certain degree of bias in there.
	But then you look at sites like Kotaku and Polygon, who are big corporate entities who are outright slandering their customers and the consumer in general and readers.
	And it's not on.
	And this gentleman from the Independent, let me just load up this tweet, Fred, that had you involved.
	Let me just find it.
	Well, I think that just a quick point: that Kotaku is probably benefiting quite a lot from Gamergate in an indirect way through info and the solidification of control in the sort of social justice sphere, you know?
	I think I've solidified that.
	Yeah, I mean, I basically saw, I believe there was a tweet from Stephen Totillo.
	Basically, he said, oh, you know, guys, we've had such a great September and basically shoving it in the face of all of the Gamergate supporters and all of the Not Your Shield and just basically saying, well, you can see all this stuff that we've got, but it's not necessarily gamers who are coming to the site.
	All these, you know, SJ I don't like to use the term SJWs because it's it's.
	I think you're kind of putting that tag on you know, a certain, a certain type of person.
	It is pejorative, isn't it?
	Yeah yeah, I mean I I, I kind of struggle to, I don't want to say it, but the the thing is, you should, you shouldn't be.
	I personally personally, I believe in, you know social, social equality.
	I believe in equality of opportunity, but you're seeing stuff like I, you know spoken to people who have called me homophobic, you know, called me a woman hater, and these people don't know me.
	I haven't insulted anyone.
	I just don't understand.
	You know where this is, where this is coming from, where this these, you know the belittlement of individuals who support Gamergate.
	It's just not on.
	It's just it's totally against what these people are supposedly for and it needs to stop.
	And I've got this Twitter feed here where basically I can yeah yeah, I mean just so you know.
	So the gentleman oops, spoil my drink stop, stop.
	The press's woman, woman has been found in Gamergate.
	All their arguments are valid and then it's basically a case of he's been copied into.
	I believe you did a video with all of these, not your shield, the female supporters of Gamergate, and he's basically been proven wrong.
	And yeah this, this gentle, Tom Tom Mendelson of the not the Independent, is it?
	No, it's, can't remember the newspaper now, but he's basically been proven wrong and just outright goes and I mean it's, it's trolling.
	This is a professional journalist who's engaging in trolling against the consumer movement and he is, he's out, he's put on his Twitter feed.
	Basically, you know you've got people emailing his employer, but I he, he just does not understand the concept that the readership yeah that's yeah, he's someone from the Independent.
	What did he say exactly?
	Well, I've got this, I've got this one here.
	You're a feigned internet woman hater.
	You personally?
	No no, you are.
	Oh me oh, of course I am because, of course, if someone on the internet says it, it's true, but it's only about the people you dislike something like that.
	I had no idea I well no, I actually.
	I know that my critics probably call me a woman hater, but that's because I criticize women, but that's possible.
	I mean I I'm, I am vehement I, vehemently Anti-Sarkeesian I.
	I just the brand of feminism that she brings to the table is perverse, it's toxic.
	But you wouldn't able to discuss it with her because she's she, just she outright will not listen to any sort of contrary view.
	She doesn't address a criticism, does she?
	It's there is, it is just an echo chamber, it.
	You don't like to say it, but it just is.
	And you've got these, these journalists who uh, subscribe to it and I, it's a.
	It's a sad thing where like, I mean, I had a look at the Golden Joysticks or Golden Joystick Awards and she's nominated, I believe she was nominated last year for Personality of the Year and she was again this year, and it just the nomination description just basically say, oh well, this harassment that Anita's received and I'm not, I'm not advocating harassing people.
	No one is, we don't.
	So nobody is.
	That's the thing, and I, you know Total Whisker, came out and said it.
	Well, do I really need to come out and say I don't support harassment, yet he supports game again?
	It just doesn't make sense.
	We're gonna have to move along a little bit because you're a bit late coming in.
	I'm really sorry.
	Sorry about that.
	No, I do apologize, but no, keep up the good work and I do appreciate everything you do for Game Go and the movement.
	All right cheers, man.
	Thanks for coming.
	Thanks bye.
	I really hate having to shut.
	Yeah, I was quite enjoying that little conversation.
	I know this is, this is the problem, but it's also good to hear everyone speak.
	Yeah no no, that's the point we want to.
	We, we do want to make sure that we can get as many people on as possible.
	Mr. Jones, you are just getting a link now and Mr. Jones looks like he's got something kind of interesting to say.
	I haven't got time to read all of that.
	Okay, let's see.
	I just want to tell people that I may not have, I know, I may not be able to agree with you, and it's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I may need more time to think about what your position is, to really be sure.
	If I'm sure, if I'm with that position, I don't want to just say off the cuff yes, if I'm not sure, because someone will crucify me, crucify me for it.
	To be honest, they'll they'll assume that that was the only position I'm ever capable of taking on an issue and so I can't just, you know it it it, I it.
	There are, there will be some things that you'll be saying I'm sure that I'll agree with automatically, because I agree with that position.
	I've already thought it through.
	But if you say something new to me and I'm I haven't considered position on it, I might just say thanks for telling me.
	And it's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I need more time.
	Just just public service announcement there, sorry.
	Well, my other one is also, guys, you're sending me what you want to talk about, but I've got no way of sending you a link, so at the moment I am having to selective post pick, sorry.
	And also, some people's usernames aren't accepting DMs as well.
	So yeah, make make sure that you can.
	In fact, the best thing to be to do would be to yeah, follow Curbs and tweet, and then he'll follow you back and DM you or you know.
	If he can't, he'll let you know.
	I'm sure Carwin come on again.
	Yeah, who's that?
	Sorry, this is the next guy again taking okay bit of time.
	I know where's Goodfella.
	I know I was.
	I've actually been.
	I've been storing up a lot of sort of old this weekend stupid stuff, so I was thinking, you know, it's been a few weeks since I've done a podcast with Goodfella, so I really should get him on to do a podcast.
	I do love having Goodfella and he's such a solid guy.
	You know really good bloke Scottish Thatcher.
	Right, it's amazing.
	never thought I'd see one oh I love Margaret Thatcher there we go Hello, Carwin.
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	It's going all right, thanks.
	Yeah.
	You're quite quiet.
	Something I'm a thrill.
	What would you like to say?
	Yeah.
	Well, I was at this kind of conference/slash seminar kind of thing in North Wales last weekend.
	And it was really inspiring because I'm a club, but I just don't want to get included in this personally, but my name's out there right now.
	And I spoke to the developers that were speaking there.
	It was quite inspiring.
	It was great to hear from them.
	Tell a lot of good stories, but the only problem is they knew about the whole Gamergate thing, obviously, as everyone does.
	And it just pained me to realise that they didn't really look into what was really happening.
	And I didn't want to tell them because I didn't want to piss them off.
	I don't want to have a bad name before.
	Of course.
	And I don't want to name drop them either.
	No, of course.
	Exactly.
	Are you saying then that basically people aren't really aware in the development circles?
	Because I've spoken to a couple of AAA developers and the big ones seem fairly aware of what's going on.
	Yeah.
	What sort of signs are you going to do?
	Yeah, they were.
	One of them had worked.
	One of them works with Tale Tales.
	Worked on a lot of really good games.
	And then another one was a head of a studio.
	It was a director of a studio, I think.
	And she knew people like Lee Alexander.
	She had already met that person.
	This little group of people, apart from one guy, which I really liked.
	The only thing he made was flash games on the internet.
	It was massive.
	They got really rich by it.
	But rest of them were big names and they'd met all kinds of people.
	But the only people that they had met were people that were against the Game Gate, the journalists that would slander the gamers.
	And I was just finding it surprising that they were taking the side of the people that were slandering the very consumer base.
	So I just found it a bit offensive, I guess.
	It's the best refinance.
	Did you find that person to seem to have social justice leanings?
	Was that self-evident these sort of the buzzwords?
	I mean, were they just someone who was going along with it?
	Yes.
	No, no, no.
	I did hear the words sexism and women hate dropped.
	Right, okay.
	So they seem to have that kind of inclination.
	But I mean, maybe they just, that's just what they've been told by Leia Alexander.
	So.
	Well, yeah, maybe.
	Yeah.
	We should give them the benefit of the question.
	They were aware and they weren't interested in looking into it further, is what you're saying, yeah.
	Yeah, that's that's sort of the impression they gave off.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Have you got any other points?
	Have you got anything else you'd like to share with us?
	No, I just saw your announcement of the stream on the Twitter feed, so just wanted to say that.
	Great.
	Okay, well, thanks for coming on.
	Yeah, thanks for having me.
	Welcome.
	Take care.
	Excuse you.
	Okay.
	Just sending out the link now.
	I don't have a real name for this person.
	Well, handle, whatever they go from.
	So we got tired of your agenda.
	I think I've seen this person on Twitter at some point.
	I really did want to do this by the queuing system, but it's all gone to hell.
	So I am literally trying to get what I can.
	I thought Twitter would be a good way of doing this.
	I think it's the best way we can get, to be honest, to get the link out.
	Maybe if everyone tweeted it at me.
	Oh, no, that wouldn't help knowing what we're talking about.
	I'm talking shit.
	Don't listen to me.
	Okay.
	Right.
	I've got enough guests lined up at the moment, anyway.
	Yeah.
	Just everyone listening, you know, a lot of people aren't public speakers and stuff like that.
	So come on.
	You know, these are the people who are you guys.
	So, you know, treat them kindly.
	Is this shenanigans?
	Is that?
	Yep.
	Yes, sir.
	How can I help?
	What would you like to say?
	Well, first of all, hi.
	I wanted to kind of talk about the latest MSNBC, you know, CNN and HuffPost just complete hack jobs on this on Gamergate.
	It's a little mind-boggling how they claim to call themselves, you know, news media outlets and claim to call themselves journalists and stuff.
	And they look at one side of the issue, and that's all they present.
	And I don't know what the gentleman who ran the HuffPost live QA with the women of Gamergate.
	I don't know what his stance is.
	But every time he kept trying to bring it back to misogyny and that whole thing and how gamers hate women.
	And they kept trying to bring it back to no, it's just consumer revolution.
	We're just tired of being told that we're shitty people.
	Yeah, I think he's got rather left-leaning perspectives, but I don't think that makes him a bad person.
	I think he handled himself really well.
	If I recall correctly, he was doxed by anti-gamergate, which just goes to show you everything you need to know about that.
	If they're going to attack someone from the Huffington Post, there's an interesting Tumblr that has, I'm not going to go on Tumblr, oh God.
	But it has all the people of Gamergate and their various harassments and doxings.
	And it's funny how that shit never gets reported.
	Nobody cares.
	It's very disturbing, isn't it?
	Yeah, it's just double standards, double standards everywhere.
	Fuck me.
	Oh, man, I totally agree.
	It's unconscionable.
	I don't know how they are okay with it.
	They treat people as if they're not people and they don't deserve to have their side told.
	And it really, really bothers me.
	I think that's why we're all doing this, isn't it?
	Yeah, and just last point.
	And the other issue I have with that is, you know, they're like, oh, you know, Gamergate makes all these threats, yet we've had no, you know, concrete evidence that it is Gamergate.
	And then, you know, there's that quote that says, whatever has been proven without evidence can be refuted without evidence.
	Yeah.
	So.
	Absolutely.
	It really annoys me that this is being taken so seriously, especially as nothing has been shown apart from a single email that doesn't even reference Gamergate, does it?
	And even then, even if it did, it still wouldn't prove anything because anyone could have written that goddamn email and just written, yeah, this is coming from Gamergate, not your shield.
	You know, I'm the leader of Gamergate, or whatever they want to say.
	You know, anyone could say that.
	So, and Gamergate isn't, it's, you know, it's Spartacus's army.
	You know, which one is Spartacus?
	Well, they all are, so what are you going to do?
	Yeah, exactly.
	And then, you know, every time somebody's like, you know, so there was just a recent account, again, the Sarkeesian, a couple hours ago, and it went around the Gamergate hashtag.
	We're all like, ban this person.
	This guy is an asshole.
	Get him off.
	Yeah.
	And yet, you know, pro-gate, anti-Gamergate people are like, oh, Leigh Alexander are like, have those tweets where they're like, yeah, what's his address?
	And let's find him and let's spread this information around.
	Like, what?
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah.
	Oh, sorry.
	Yeah.
	I don't know who cut out there if it was me or you.
	Probably me.
	I'm the one with the bad internet connection.
	Could you repeat that?
	I missed that bit.
	Sorry.
	Oh, just, you know, how every time there seems to be some kind of account that comes up that, you know, rape threats, death threats, spawn threats, whatever.
	Gamergate seems to be like right the fuck on top of that.
	You know, within like 10 minutes of those things being posted, you know, people are like, all right, get this account shut down immediately.
	Yet they just let it run rampant and encourage it on their side.
	Well, I've actually got a suggestion.
	Well, not necessarily a suggestion, but an idea that I wanted to float.
	I'm glad you brought this up.
	And I just want to say this from a minute.
	A voice for men, and I'm not an MRA.
	I know that I get called MRA, but that's because I'm a humanist and I care about people, not genders.
	They actually, they're the sort of people who have obviously had a bit of a long-running beef with Anita Sarkeesian.
	And they were suggest, I think they've put up a $3,000 reward for whoever finds Anita Sarkeesian's threatener.
	So whoever it was that threatened Anita Sarkeesian, they would like to find them.
	And I think my internet is about to die.
	So I may disappear shortly.
	Last thing, Sargon, I don't know if you're, I'd love for somebody, you seem to be very, you know, level-headed and very rational above all else.
	When I'm not pissed off, I am.
	Except for sometimes you get a little heated, but you seem to be very rational.
	And I would love for one of the, you know, more one of the Gamergate people that has, you know, a lot of reach to bring in, you know, anti-Gamergate side and pro-Gamergate people and like, you know, one of these Google Hangouts and say, okay, let's talk about this.
	And, you know, if people get, you kind of like encourage rational discussion.
	And if people start, you know, you know, cussing and whatever, just be like, all right, shut up, get off the call.
	You know, you got to have some kind of heavy moderation.
	Just a thought, because, I mean, that's the only way this is ever really going to stop is if both sides kind of cool down a little bit and talk about things calmly and rationally.
	Just my two cents.
	Sargon has unfortunately dropped as his internet is basically tin cans and string.
	No problem.
	Have a good amen.
	No problem.
	Thanks, Shanellians.
	I'm going to get the next guy in.
	All right.
	Peace.
	Just while we're waiting for Sargon to come back, that was a really good idea, actually.
	Just shenanigans, just DM me that idea again, and I'll pass it on to Sargon.
	And I'm just waiting to push the send button as soon as Sargon returns.
	And I can't see the chat.
	Yeah, I still can't see the chat.
	So...
	It's all right.
	It's okay.
	Just send in the chat.
	I swear to God, guys, I am going to get a proper internet connection soon.
	I'm really sorry about this.
	Yeah, so sorry.
	I missed.
	Basically, he wants you to sort of moderate a debate between anti-GGAs and GGAs.
	Make it sort of like a level playing field.
	Yeah, I could do that.
	I think it's a good idea at some point.
	Yeah, yeah.
	In fact, on that note, I've got a message.
	Paul, come on, man.
	Don't touch the shit.
	You know not to engage with Jenny.
	She's made you look like an asshole.
	Like, she made me look like an asshole.
	Don't engage Pixie Jenny.
	Jenny Goodchild, she knows her shit.
	She will win.
	But she will be a dick and make herself look like a prick.
	So don't engage, guys.
	Seriously, just if Pixie Jenny tweets, you just fucking block her.
	She's not worth anyone's time.
	Sorry, who's the next person on?
	I've got Viperbane, who's apparently also known as GMS.
	Hey, Viperbane, how's it going?
	It's going good.
	Thanks for hosting a nice little get-together, I would say it is.
	Yeah, I just thought there are a lot of people who have certain people who've got really loud voices, which is fine, which is good.
	We need them, you know, but I think a lot of people aren't really getting their voices heard just because they're not people who spend that much time on the internet, you know.
	So it's like I thought it'd be useful.
	Yeah, what would you like to say to everyone?
	First and foremost, just to answer what you just said here is I tried for the first time ever my first Google Hangouts, and it's a bit daunting to do, try and handle technology and everything.
	But it was fairly easy to figure out.
	So everyone that's listening in, give it a go and just get talking.
	I mean, I got 10 people in to listen to the things I was renting about just recently, and then we discovered you went live.
	So we jumped over here instead.
	But what I wanted to talk about is I did see some reference to you being referred to the strategist or the strategic thinker of this.
	Yeah, but not in the leadership way.
	And I do agree with this because the things you've been talking about, especially when you were showing, I think it was two days ago when you did the I'll be tweeting this person, don't engage, don't do anything.
	Go ahead.
	No, no, no.
	Sorry, sorry, Karen.
	No, I thought it was kind of a brilliant thing.
	And looking back at all the things that you have done, you've said, you've been very good in the strategic way of thinking of how to handle this.
	Thanks.
	Just don't put me on the front lines because I make tactical errors in the heat of battle.
	Yeah, I can agree with that because I've heard your videos where you lose your temper a little bit.
	Yeah.
	It's Pixie Jenny, man.
	Don't engage with Pixie Jenny.
	Anyone else is reasonable, probably.
	I mean, they're going to be...
	And it's not even that Pixie Jenny's any different to any of the rest of it.
	It's that she's better than the rest of them.
	You know, Brianna Wu, they're all going to try the same thing, but they're not as good as she is.
	She's really good.
	Don't engage.
	But yeah, I just, if something seems tactically sound, I think if I tweet it as a suggestion, then people who see it will say, actually, no, that is a good idea.
	Or no, that's a bad idea.
	And I'll say, oh, that's why that's a bad idea.
	And I'll say, okay, yeah, probably don't do that, guys.
	Sorry, just to interrupt.
	Mads, no, we've got I've just sent you a message, you are in the run in on the next, well soonish.
	Okay.
	Okay, was there anything else you wanted to say, mate?
	No, I just wanted to say thank you for that and try to boost you up a little bit about it without putting you in the leadership spot, without putting you in anything there, because I think we still should remain leaderless and not give anyone a good target to paint out.
	And yeah, I lost my train of thought a little bit because I did mention something earlier.
	Oh, yeah, you said something about don't engage certain people and I agree.
	I brought that up earlier this morning that the usual people we engage that we see tweet the basic people we're hanging out now from everyone from Seth Rogen to Ian Miles for all the dumb stuff they do.
	They're pretty much just the minions that are the easily spotted targets, but you have the ones that are more vicious hiding still behind the scene.
	They haven't really come out yet, but when they do, they tend to really hurt stuff like what happened to Milo.
	Okay, I've got some advice actually, if anyone would like to hear it.
	There are a couple of key figures in the social justice movement who fulfill the same function I do.
	I would recommend not engaging them, but keeping tabs on them and mocking the shit out of them.
	Don't message them, but just take the piss out of them.
	Alex Lifshitz and Jonathan McIntosh are two of these people.
	I've seen them do it on Twitter because occasionally I look at their Twitter feeds if I want a good laugh.
	And I've seen them advising people, Liftschitz especially, giving tactical advice in public, like I do.
	McIntosh, I suspect, does it behind the scenes, but I'm absolutely convinced he does it behind the scenes.
	So just be aware of them, is I think if you see them say something to like Zoe Quinn, a piece of advice or something, just be aware, you know, tell other people, you know.
	So yeah, that was just all I wanted to say there.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, I'm going to just round off with something and I'm not taking credit for it, but I started doing social media a while back doing all these things when affiliate marketing was new.
	And I brought that to the attention of the Gamergate.
	I can't say that I was first, but I did bring out the video saying this is how money is being made of keeping you angry as a gamer or bullying you and pissing all over your hobby and telling people don't go to these websites because even if you have an ad block on,
	they have technology showing that there is a visit, there is an impact being registered on the server and they take these logs to their advertisers saying, look, we have 10 million impressions on our servers every month.
	Even if your ad isn't seen, we can still write a favorable article about you or some way to display it.
	So they do make the money that way.
	And ever since then, people started using archive and like these snapshots on internet.
	I think that is a good idea and I think people should continue doing that.
	So remember you're not protected by sitting behind ad blockers and whatnot because they still see that you're coming there and visiting their websites.
	Okay, cool.
	I think that's probably good advice.
	Right.
	Well that's all I had to say really.
	Thanks for coming on, I appreciate it.
	All right, cheers guys.
	Bye.
	And should have Lauren coming on next.
	Yep, no problem, Mads.
	I can see everything.
	I'm just focusing on trying to get as many people.
	People are still not following.
	People are just tweeting messages.
	Come on, guys.
	Help him out.
	You know, don't just tweet needlessly if possible, please.
	I tell you, the same sort of thing happened when I got the selfies for that video.
	I got a lot of notifications, which I'm not complaining about, but it was overwhelming, I won't lie.
	This isn't too bad.
	Unfortunately, I'm not going to get to everybody just because people are taking the time to come on, which I can understand getting into the stream and things like that.
	Okay, let's just go to the next person.
	And the thing is, it's not like the person can't come on afterwards, you know.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So if you're not ready to, you know, if you don't respond quickly, then we'll just go on to the next person.
	You know, you'll just go back in the queue a little bit, I guess.
	I'm not the one functionally operating it, so I don't know.
	But yeah, who's the next person, please?
	It's Lauren still.
	We're still waiting for Lauren.
	Come on, Lauren.
	Okay, I better look at the chat.
	Yeah, sorry, I can't monitor the chat and talk to people sensibly.
	So, yeah, guys, if you want to join, just you'll have to get in the queue.
	That's how queues work.
	Andrew Norton sagon, I need feminism because it's the only topic I can make videos on.
	Have you not seen my history videos?
	I'm actually disappointed in you.
	I work hard on those.
	And I take the piss out of the young Turks.
	And TEDx, but a lot of the time TEDx have feminists on, so I guess maybe I do need feminism for that.
	Hollywood Knights is definitely coming on at some point.
	Would like to come on and talk about logical shortcomings of Jonathan Macintosh.
	I think that that's the sort of thing we could do another stream because that's something I'd like to take some time over myself.
	If we can just have shorter Game of Gate points, that'd be great.
	But I think it's well understood at this point that Jonathan McIntosh is a fucking clown.
	Okay, Lauren, I've sent you the message.
	You still...
	Okay, let's grab the next person.
	All right.
	Alright, I'm going to send it to Mads.
	Mads is going to be coming on next.
	He wants to speak about the ludology.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Anything.
	It's just people.
	It's not necessarily talking about what I want to talk about.
	I want to talk about what you guys want to talk about.
	So if you just have something that you want people to hear, just come on and say it.
	We don't have to interact necessarily if you don't want to.
	You can just come on, say your peace, and then hop if you want.
	Come on, Mads.
	You were hassling to get on.
	Where are you now?
	I tell you what, Seth Rogan.
	Fuck's sake, man.
	I like Seth Rogan.
	Pineapple Express was an amazing film.
	Gutted.
	Why is he being a dick?
	He seemed like the sort of person who's probably not a dick.
	Alright, next person then.
	Sorry, guys.
	You've got to be ready to come on.
	Which is annoying.
	That's messing with my list.
	But still, let's go with the next guy, Mike in Durham.
	Yeah, okay.
	Not our Durham, I don't think.
	Oh, Mads has decided to join.
	Okay, hang on a second then, Mike.
	Are you there, Mads?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	How's it going?
	Oh, very well.
	Thank you.
	What did you want to say?
	Well, I wanted to say that, you know, digging through the diagram materials that you've been researching.
	I found it staggering.
	I think it was two thousand seven, I took a course at the University of Aarhus in Denmark on computer game studies.
	And what I encountered was probably the first text that forms the basis of what ludology is.
	I'm sure you're familiar with games.
	Right, except they decided to use the term specifically to mean in I guess you'd call it an academic direction.
	I'm not sure exactly, it's supposed to signify the study of games as games as opposed to as stories or something else.
	So it's like at least that's how it started.
	So there's like my favorite text from that period was it was by an author called Espen Arset.
	He's the principal researcher or investigator, whatever you call him, at the Center for Game Studies in Copenhagen.
	And he pretty much wrote the first ludology kind of text.
	So the reason why I bring it up is because what it basically lays out is a way to approach computer game studies.
	It's from 97, so that's before Diagra stuff that I was looking at was done, just for people who didn't know.
	Yes.
	So what's so interesting is he spends a great deal of time talking about the idea of academic colonialism.
	Like the idea that some academic from another branch of the humanities would come into the field of games and they would bring in their vernacular and their thinking and bring it to bear on the study of games and how wrong he feels that is.
	Wow, he was a prophet.
	What was this guy's name again?
	His name is.
	Hang on, Lauren.
	Hang on.
	Just wait there, I'll mute you for a minute.
	Can you tweet that at me, please?
	Because I'm never going to be able to Google that.
	Oh, yes, certainly.
	I have a mechanical keyboard, so it'll be after.
	Yeah, yeah, that's fine, that's fine.
	Okay, so so I mean, you know, you could you could like he spent apparently like six years writing this, so he must have started in ninety one or something.
	But it's it's like his PhD thesis that's called it's called Cybertext, the study of ergodic literature.
	You can Google Cybertext, I know that, and he'll pop up.
	Okay, so what's interesting is, of course, he approaches it from a very humanistic standpoint where even the idea of using language from other fields, like from cinematography or storytelling or literature, like even using the language would be too invasive.
	So he has the idea of constructing new terms for analyzing games.
	So to go from that point, that's the starting point of Lodology, to the point where in 2014 we hear somebody at Dikra who's apparently a professed lodologist talking about how to best influence the industry of computer games.
	I feel like that journey is important.
	I agree with you.
	I very much agree.
	That's a very, very good point.
	And I think that you I think you've probably done a lot of good by coming on and informing us of all this.
	I had no idea such a thing existed, and I'm very interested in reading that.
	There's actually something really interesting, which is at least I think it's interesting in the context of because what we see what we see Diagrat doing now is by any definition, you know, that is academic colonialism.
	They're trying to populate a medium with their ideas.
	They're openly Marxist.
	Everyone, I mean, have a look at Shira Chess's Twitter feed.
	She's just joking about the fact that she's so damn Marxist.
	look, we know you are I literally the next video I'm going to do on Dagger will be the last just so everyone knows And I'll show you exactly feminist academia.
	I mean, the Huffington Post guy said, you know, what's wrong with looking at it from a feminist or Marxist academic perspective?
	It's like, why is academia so damn Marxist?
	You know, hasn't that been discredited enough already?
	We know it doesn't work.
	Yeah.
	I, you know, I'm, I like science.
	Yeah, me too.
	You know, the, the, the.
	I like it in science.
	I like it to control the way the world operates.
	Sorry, yeah, go on.
	Yeah, and the idea that there's somebody sitting at a university trying to figure out how to influence an industry is so perpendicular to everything.
	I cannot like, or even if the people studying music were like, well, we really ought to get in touch with some music producers.
	We really got to get in touch because I really like, I don't know, I really like cold play.
	So I really feel like they should promote these guys and fuck everything else.
	Because that's not any good anyway.
	Yeah, I hate heavy rock, so don't promote that.
	In fact, we need to demonize that.
	Let's tell people it kills kids.
	This offends me as a gamer, but more so as an academic.
	No, no, I just want to stress I'm exactly the same.
	I'm offended for Western civilization at this point.
	At this point, the next one I'm going to show exactly how they are Marxist feminists.
	And I find it's obviously discredited.
	It doesn't work.
	And they're trying to subvert academia.
	And that should be where intellectual rigor takes place.
	Anyone asking to subvert the peer review system and change industrial logic.
	Oh, God.
	No, just no.
	Sorry.
	Sorry, I didn't mean to go off.
	Sorry, did I interrupt anything there?
	I'm really sorry.
	I shouldn't have done that.
	No, well, the last point was if it's okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	I'll make it brief.
	Okay, so there was actually a sort of precursor for this sort of colonialism.
	There was a debate between apparently two separate parties within game studies.
	One party called the Neratologists and one party called the Ludologists.
	With the Neratologists supposing that you could go in with existing literary theories and examine computer games that way.
	So you have this, and this is the ludological branch that has been infested, so to speak.
	It's the staunch people who were trying to keep out the existing influences who have been co-opted and turned around.
	That is what's gone on.
	So far as I can figure, anyway.
	I'm not in the field myself, but from everything I can see that you've uncovered here, that's how it is.
	That is how it appears to me as well.
	It's been co-opted.
	It's been willfully undermined and probably in exactly the way you describe sort of colonialists.
	There's no other better term for it, is there, really?
	No, I don't think so.
	And, you know, it's the, well, you know, you could also go with academic imperialism if you felt like it.
	They're certainly acting imperial these days, aren't they?
	But thanks a lot for coming on, man.
	I appreciate it.
	That's really interesting.
	And I apologize for triggering you.
	No, no, it's my fault.
	I should have known better.
	All right.
	Have a good one.
	Take care.
	Right.
	We've still got.
	Who's in the chat?
	Is it Lauren?
	Lauren is in the chat with her camp.
	Hello.
	Can you talk, Lauren?
	I think I may have a mute.
	How do I unmute?
	Yeah, I was muted.
	How are you doing?
	How are you doing?
	I'm good.
	How are you?
	Really good, thanks.
	What would you like to tell everyone?
	Well, I really just want to talk about how feminism is really the undercurrent of this whole thing and how just how poisonous it is.
	I mean, we wouldn't even be talking about this stuff if these people were not identifying as feminists.
	It would never have gotten into the mainstream media.
	You would never have seen these people on TV if they did not identify as feminists.
	And isn't it just a coincidence that all of them, Zoe, Anita, Brianna, they are all feminists and they're all raging cunts.
	There are feminists that aren't cunts, remember.
	There are.
	I think it's about third and second wave.
	Women who tend to identify as second wave are nice people.
	And then, yeah.
	Sorry, go on.
	Yeah, nicer, but you know, it's just really sad to see.
	And just the fact that, you know, all of the, as far as long as Gamergate has been going on, it took something to happen to it.
	Now, remember, men have gotten death threats too.
	Men have been harassed online too over this.
	But it's not until a woman complains about it, who's also a feminist, that it gets national or media attention like this.
	It is the culture, isn't it?
	They support people within the culture.
	Yeah, it is.
	And that's sad.
	But, you know, I think the interview with Jenny and Gemma and Georgie, that HuffPost interview was amazing.
	Me too.
	And I think it did a lot of good.
	I think it did a lot of good.
	And I think that more media outlets are starting to get that message and they want to hear from us.
	So, you know, I'm going to continue to go.
	Definitely recommend that the ladies of Gamergate and the transsexuals and whoever that's not a white male approach media outlets because they're bigots.
	As a white male, I can't do that.
	There's no point in me doing that because I'm just everything that they already think Gamergate is just because I happen to like games and be a gamer.
	So it's, I mean, it's unfair, but there's nothing I can do.
	So everyone needs you guys to come forward, basically.
	Yeah, well, you know, I'm surprised if there's not more of us.
	I mean, I know we're there, but I think so many women are just hesitant to step up and speak out.
	Maybe they don't think that they know enough or they don't think that, you know, their voice matters or that anything that they can say has already been said.
	But that's not true.
	You know, the more we stand up, even if we're repeating the same message, the more of us that step up and speak out, the better it will be for Gamergate.
	I totally agree.
	I completely agree.
	And it's a horrible thing to have to say, but we need non-white males to it's a horrible thing to have to d delineate like this.
	I really would rather just deal with people as individuals, but they force us to do this sort of thing, because otherwise people are just going to assume that we are the misogynist bigots that they are.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	It's complete projection, okay?
	It's totally projection.
	No one is saying, no one in Gamergate, well, not no one, because there are people who, you know, there's an asshole here and there everywhere, but the overall message of Gamergate has nothing to do with the color of your skin or your gender.
	It just doesn't.
	But that's literally all they point to.
	It's like as if the journalistic integrity is not even, it's not even in the room.
	It's not a consideration.
	Not at all.
	Not even for a moment.
	It's just truly amazing.
	I've never seen anything like this.
	Yeah, I mean, I think they should be ashamed, frankly, but what can you do?
	Is that all you needed to say?
	Yes, that is it.
	Thank you.
	Thanks for coming on.
	All right, no problem.
	Bye.
	Who's next, man?
	Hi, okay.
	A couple of things.
	There's no point if you add me and I don't get to you automatically, you know, and then you say you're doing something else, okay, you've got to have some time free for this, guys.
	I've got a lot of people queued.
	So, you know, if you want to speak, you've got to be waiting.
	Okay.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	I'm not losing sanity with this, but just when people message me saying the next guy actually is called the movement.
	He's hopefully coming on.
	But when people message me and then don't get back to me and say, oh, I'd love to this evening, you know.
	Oh, wait, Mike has just popped in.
	Mike was originally Canadian Mike.
	Is that correct?
	That is correct.
	Okay.
	You were a bit late, but we're still waiting for the movement, so feel free.
	That's right.
	How's it going, Mike?
	Oh, well, one of the things I remember me, both of you.
	Just looking at kind of how the last couple of days have played out, where we've looked at the Gamergate girls go out there having to respond to Brianna Wu jumping from network to network to network, conveying this very false narrative that's occurred.
	And it kind of struck me that as it's sitting right now, the narrative is predominantly being controlled by the anti-Gamergate people.
	And as a result, we're having a hard time as pro-Gamergate to look at them and say, hey, wait, hold on a second here.
	We're not a bunch of misogynists.
	We actually are far more diverse people.
	And to change that narrative means a lot of little steps here and there that are entirely achievable, as we've seen.
	One of the first things that I think we need to do to really kind of hammer home the point about what it's like in the female game industry is look at the graduation rates from computer science programs.
	I mean, for example, the American Association of University Women rated at 20.5% of all computer science degrees are awarded to women, whereas the Computer Research Association says 11.8% female.
	Well, that seems a little low considering 22% of women who are in the video games development industry or comprise of the video game development industry.
	So it kind of seems to match up a little more with the American Association of Women's stats.
	If 22% of computer grads are women, then 22% likely to be represented in the industry.
	Strangely enough, it all of a sudden falls into this meritocracy kind of thing.
	It's just like there's no mystery at all.
	I completely forgot about that.
	But what's struggling for us is we're being labeled this kind of ad hominit attack, and we have very little to disrupt it because they can co-opt this sense of threats.
	And that made me think about what the narrative currently is for them.
	And it's really simple.
	It's, as they say to us, are you just a bunch of white men over there?
	Well, yes, but you're also talking about a bunch of white men that are the editors in chiefs of all these different journalist outposts that we're trying to bring down.
	And they are continuing to perpetuate the story as women as victims, women who lack agency, women who don't have a chance in the industry by continuing to publish this platform of rape threats again and again.
	And of course, the fallback for us when we start seeing that is even if we're putting women out there, they're saying that we give them the advantage to turn that around and say, oh, it's internalized oppression or whatever else.
	So the brand in itself, the Gamergate brand, is kind of struggling in that regard, especially represented by Brianna Wu can go from CBS to CBC to NBC or whoever, sorry, CNN, and manage to tell her story, but there's no Gamergate follow-up.
	And then we see this absolute piece of spent toilet paper come out of the New York Times about Anita Sarkeesian just earlier today, I believe.
	I don't know if you guys had a chance to look over yet.
	I haven't seen that yet, but I can imagine exactly what it's like.
	I was told by someone that the New York Times actually wouldn't mind speaking to me.
	And I was given an email of someone, an email address, someone there to talk to.
	And I emailed it saying, hi, I hear you want to talk about Gamergate.
	And they've never got back to me.
	So there we go.
	I guess it depends who in the office gets to talk to which side first and then derail the other.
	But we see that.
	Look what happened with, geez, Jim was talking about it.
	Aaron went to somebody to talk about his story, and the guy completely misquoted him out of an email to make it sound like he kind of wants a movement to occur.
	And of course, a movement that's negative towards women to occur.
	And of course, that takes away from our chances to share our narrative, right?
	And so just some thoughts now to move on to.
	We know what the narrative is.
	It's just we need to, the Gamergate brand has to start coming up with better methods of conveying our image.
	I don't know if it was Jim, again, who came up with or came across the suggestion that we, as we did with the Fine Un Capitalists, create a small fund that allows us to access ad revenue towards, or to take our ad revenue and put it into marketing departments at different major newspapers or print sites to start putting out just Gamergate.
	We want these ethics.
	Well, I mean, I suppose that could be crowdfunded.
	It's no different than the Finding Capitalist was, right?
	Yeah, I guess I'm worried more about institutions developing and being co-opted.
	But I mean, that would be some time far in the future.
	I think what would actually be more useful at the moment, I'm not saying I don't think it's a bad idea, it's just that I'm worried about that idea.
	You know, it's an idea that has potential to really blow back in our faces, I think.
	Well, look at Rebel Jam.
	If you look at Rebel Jam in a vacuum, that's a great idea.
	Let's get a bunch of indie devs together, let's sit them down, let's see what they can produce, and let's reward the person who shows the best possible product.
	What's wrong with that?
	The problem is the people who end up judging the whole thing are the ones who are the actual corrupt ones.
	Which, again, you look, take a couple steps back to what the flashpoint was for this movement, is for the most part, people didn't care that Depression Quest was made by a woman.
	What they cared about was this woman used connections and was used by her connections to fund a huge amount of clickbait and to drive forward a project which was then being funded directly into someone's personal bank account.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, I think then basically people who aren't cishet white male scum, I think that basically what you guys should do is probably tweet or email, probably email would be better, just journalists at various newspapers.
	They're all contactable.
	They're all contactable.
	Go to the Times, go to big important ones, financial ones who want to talk about billion-dollar industries.
	Go anywhere, go where they haven't already gone and get in there first and say, hey, look, say Lauren would have been a, I'm sure, you know, if Lauren could email someone important, you know, that would be great because what are they going to do?
	Say that she's a misogynist.
	Yeah.
	But that's just it.
	That's a narrative that's already been put up against us that we have to fight.
	And the only way you can do that is we can get guys like Hot Wheels out there, get people like Lauren, get people like Gemma talking to these people up front and saying, hey, I'm Oliver.
	This is what I believe in.
	And you can't tell me that I'm racist because that I'm racing against black people because that would be really dumb to say.
	Yeah, exactly.
	They're immune from that ad hominem, which is showing me how to.
	Closing points here, so I don't take up someone else's time too much.
	I want to really emphasize Sargon's point that he made in his previous video about divide and conquer.
	And there's ways you can do this really easy.
	Twitter has a discover function.
	You can look up GamerGate, stop GamerGate, any type of other hashtag out there, and just look at what the conversations are.
	And if someone's saying something absolutely stupid, call them out on it with a civil, cool mind.
	And I think we can improve that method by someone developing some sort of repository or be active yourselves out there and go and look.
	Anytime someone tweets something out with an image on it that says we support women in gaming or this is the harassment that we see that we fight, anything like that, create your own repository so that when you're communicating with other people on Twitter, on Facebook, on Tumblr, what have you, let them know that this is what we believe in.
	Use that repository to your advantage and share what you have.
	And try to encourage people that may not be completely on side of the movement, start with, I want ethics.
	Be vanilla about it.
	Be civil.
	And you can start changing the support base to people on your side who may not otherwise care or may even be leaning to the other side because they bought into the other side's narrative.
	If we change the narrative, we change the brand, and the brand is everything that we can use to actually come out ahead of this and meet our ultimate goal, which is change this industry, which is, I think, part one in the dominoes because we know why this industry is the way it is, and that's where we're really looking next.
	Great advice.
	Excellent.
	I totally agree with that advice.
	Everyone should get on that.
	Thanks for watching.
	Well, thanks again, guys.
	Do it again sometime soon.
	Cheers.
	Bye.
	No problem.
	I do have one little thing to say, just Sargon, based on how this is going, if it's okay.
	If we do this again, everyone I don't get round to automatically on the list, basically.
	So stay there.
	And if that's if we do it again, it's up to Sargon.
	Seems to be helping everyone.
	That's you know, seems like a good idea, doesn't it?
	I actually need to grab a cup of tea.
	So Cebris, do you want to do this one?
	Just ask.
	Could do if he's available.
	All right, fine.
	Hello, the movement.
	Are you there?
	Doo doo doo.
	Okay.
	Got silenced at the moment.
	This is awkward.
	I actually really do want to hear from oh, you are there, but I can't hear you.
	That's uh you're not muted, I don't think, unless Sargon muted you.
	I haven't muted anyone, hang on.
	No, he doesn't doesn't seem to be muted, as far as I can see.
	Sorry, I will be no pause.
	Oh, yep, you're on.
	Ericos, you hear me?
	I'm audible.
	Yep, you are audible, yep.
	How's it going?
	Not not too bad.
	Feel free to speak your mind if you've got any points that you want to put across that you don't think are being covered.
	Your perspective was quite interesting.
	Stay-at-home dad was it?
	Yes, a stay-at-home dad of three years now.
	Yeah, two boys.
	I find it ironic that a bunch of feminists are saying that I'm a misogynist while I'm over here cooking and cleaning and doing the things that the misogynists claim women should be doing.
	But that's not what I'm on here for.
	I'm on here for my kids and my nephew and all the other kid gamers out there, you know, like I guess what you would call noobs.
	Recently, my nephew and I were trying to play a game of league and we're on Skype and he starts talking to me about how he jumped on Twitter the other day and read a message of somebody saying that gamers are misogynists.
	And he's reading all these pretty much negative things about gaming and it's affecting him pretty negatively when it comes down to it.
	He feels that he might be getting bullied on Twitter soon if he says anything about playing games.
	My son is playing PlayStation 3 now.
	He's still too young to be playing too many games.
	But I'm worried that me and my wife are worried that one day my son will grow up, open up a website like Kotaku or Polygon and read something negative again about gamers.
	And this is something that people really haven't been talking about is what it's doing to the younger generation of gamers is this negativity that these people are bringing.
	Yeah, it's not really a warm place at the moment to introduce anybody to the wider sort of sphere.
	But you can still keep gaming in your own microcosm basically and just expose them to the good things.
	And then there are good websites out there that Gamergate has highlighted this, especially ones that were on the fringe that are now coming to the fore.
	There's not a a huge number of them and they are very specialized, like Silicon Era for sort of the Japanese type games.
	I understand entirely what your predicament is.
	I just I wouldn't be so bleak.
	Eventually, Gamergate will have to end at some point.
	And it's already building alternatives to the current media sources, basically.
	And that's what I think the internet allows us to do, basically, is to vote with our feet and go do something else.
	Or go be the sort of sort of change that you would like to see yourself.
	I mean, you could learn HTML and build a website yourself if you have the time.
	There are always these options basically to explore.
	I don't know if Sargon's back yet, but I mean.
	Yeah, I'm back, man.
	Do you want to feel the rest of this?
	Yeah, I can.
	Yeah, I think that voting with your feet is definitely a good idea.
	And I think building things is basically what has got gamers what we have now and what we stand to lose.
	You know, when have gamers ever been shy about building anything?
	You know, so it's you know, the modern communities, you know, have just enormous.
	You know, the amount of gamers who are devs, you know, it's incredible.
	So, yeah.
	Yeah, just you know, people who have got talent will rise.
	You know, just keep an eye out.
	And if you see something you like, share it.
	Make sure other people know.
	Because if people don't know, they can't go there.
	So, but yeah, stay positive.
	These people are liars.
	These people are slanderers.
	These people are thoroughly immoral.
	So, you know, I don't moralizer too much, but they are, you know.
	When I was younger, I felt like this was going to happen sooner or later, something like this.
	Just a few years ago, feminism pretty much invaded atheism and started breaking down the walls there and really getting their claws in.
	And I felt like this was a long time coming for two reasons.
	Not just because of feminism, but because of the corruption we do see.
	And we have seen that.
	Yeah, Atheism Plus.
	You know, those people.
	So it's been a long time coming, and the fact that it's happening now, I felt it was kind of late, to be honest.
	Gaming has always been a target for people like this, from Jack Thompson to Hillary Clinton.
	And when the time comes for my son to be able to jump on the internet on his own, I don't want him to see people telling him that he's misogynist or that his father is.
	I don't want to see somebody calling his hero misogynist.
	And the fact that Gamergates around is a good thing.
	It's a damn good thing.
	I think that it's going to happen because feminists exist, but I'm sure he'll grow up to be at least as level-headed as his father.
	So, you know, just teach him the right thing.
	It'll be all right.
	Thanks for having me on.
	Take care, man.
	No problem.
	I've sent the link to the amazing elitist who's going to be next, hopefully.
	When that's done, I'm just going to get feminism plus.
	What would feminism plus be?
	Someone in the comments, sorry, honestly.
	What would feminism plus be?
	Jesus.
	Right.
	I'm sorry if we've left him.
	Okay.
	I'm just going to potentially send this to another one.
	MA, I've sent you the link.
	You know, if you do come in, I mean, everyone's actually been really polite and muted themselves, which I thought was really great, you know, when they missed their slot.
	So, you know.
	Yeah, if you find yourself coming in, guys, yeah, just, yeah, like you say, just be polite.
	Hello.
	Could you hear me?
	Hello, I can hear you, Josh.
	How's it going?
	Oh, it's going good.
	It's like 2am.
	I know.
	I'm in Britain.
	What would you like to say to everyone?
	It's just about the recent threats to Anita and Zoe Quinn.
	Because I know Anita's conference at Utah University got cancelled recently due to bomb threats and she.
	She cancelled it.
	She can't stay.
	Okay.
	But it's like, I was watching an amazing atheist video earlier, Dipswador, and he was saying, like, Marilyn Manson used to get these kind of threats.
	What did Marlon Manson do?
	He walked up on stage and did exactly what he loved.
	And it's really weird to see Anita say these threats have happened to her and then completely just, you know what?
	I don't care about this movement enough to risk my life.
	obviously, misogyny isn't that important to me.
	And it's really weird how, like...
	Sorry, yeah, sorry, no, no.
	I thought I thought you made your point.
	Sorry.
	No, it's okay if you want to say something.
	Oh, I just think we all know the true caliber of Anita, really, don't we?
	Yeah.
	Honestly, I don't know who linked the video.
	I think it might have been Jim.
	But someone called up the Utah University about the police investigation that was going on around here.
	And the guy basically said, well, we haven't got any record of any threats or anything right now.
	Did he?
	That's interesting.
	I didn't know that.
	I'd be interested in hearing more about that.
	And if anyone finds out whether they actually did, if someone can follow it up, take it as a personal little mission of yours to find out.
	That'd be great.
	Because there's a lot going on.
	Right.
	Was there anything else?
	Oh, no, that was just it.
	Kraken.
	Thanks for coming on.
	Pleasure.
	Cheers, man.
	Sorry, I'm parched.
	I haven't actually had any of my tea yet.
	Because it's hot.
	I haven't had any Pepsi.
	I need some Pepsi.
	As soon as the next guy comes in, I'm going to go just grab a quick drink.
	Yeah, not a problem, man.
	But I am...
	Okay.
	Right.
	I'm going to bring somebody you already know in, just because I know they're waiting on the sidelines.
	Is it Pixie Jenny?
	No, I'm not ready for that shit again.
	Cerberus is not a fan of Pixie Jenny.
	I'm not a fan of shotgun questions.
	No, no, she's full of it.
	Don't engage.
	Okay.
	Because loads of people are in the queue, but not answering at the moment, it seems.
	And I'm just getting.
	I'm just going to answer some questions until again.
	Choice of tea is PG tips.
	There we are.
	I'm shilling now.
	No, I'm not shilling.
	They're not giving me any goddamn money.
	Ah, Tara.
	Hello.
	Good to hear from you again.
	I spoke to Tara the other day.
	Hello?
	I've actually tweeted at her a couple times encouraging her to read different blogs I've roast What, Pixie Jenny?
	Hello?
	Is it my internet or is it?
	No, you're still good, I think.
	Right.
	Can you hear us, Tara?
	Can you hear someone breathing?
	Is that you?
	That's not me.
	Oh, hello.
	Can you hear us?
	I can.
	Right.
	So, yeah, who was it you tweeted?
	Sorry?
	I've actually sent a few tweets to Pixie Jenny encouraging her to read different blog posts I've written about Gamergate or different things that I thought she would find interesting, because it's like I mean, I know she hates the Gamergate movement but at the same time, I'm just like, well, you know, you say you're an academic and you want to learn.
	Well, here's some viewpoints from the other side, and I'm always very civil with her and she's liked a few of my tweets and she hasn't been hostile towards me, so I harbor no ill will.
	I'm very surprised, so would you like to tell us a quick bit about yourself?
	Yeah my, my Twitter handle is Hidden Tranny, which itself has gotten a lot of controversy.
	I am a 28 year old trans woman.
	I've been out for eight years and I started in on Gamergate and NOT YOUR Shield from the very beginning of all this.
	It's very, very good to hear from you because again, we need people who aren't white men coming forward, and I think I think a lot of white men come forward because they've had this all before, so this sort of thing isn't new to them a lot of them.
	So we need other people who haven't really received this kind of abuse before to come forward to help us.
	Well, I mean, I'm I'm with a lot of the people who were speaking before about how this goes back to around 1994 with Joe Lieberman and Jack Thompson and all that stuff.
	It's like my mother was a part of the not I mean just in private at home, yelling at the television and yelling at me that I wasn't allowed to have Mortal Kombat 2 and video games are violent and I could only play.
	I mean, I did get to enjoy good video games like The Legend Of Zelda and DuckTales and Aladdin and Toy Story, and it's like I got to enjoy those kind of games.
	But no, until I, until I had a job when I was 16 and buying my own stuff.
	It's like I wasn't able to participate in a hobby as actively as I wanted to.
	I'm having to tell Adam Baldwin he's on a list.
	That's really weird.
	I'm sorry Adam, but you are gonna have to do it by British rules, you filthy colonial.
	I've asked, yeah, I can't show favoritism, man.
	Sorry dude, I feel like a dick.
	And now I feel like a dick.
	I've just said that to Adam fucking Baldwin.
	Well, if Adam is listening, I live in Los Angeles and I would be more than happy to have that cup of coffee with you.
	That would be awesome.
	But yeah um, thanks for coming on.
	I mean, it might be really helpful if you approach some news outlets to let them know how you feel about Gamergate and you tell us about how much you know quickly, because you've got a lot of experience.
	And there's something that you mentioned in a stream the other day that I think everyone should hear.
	Would you like to tell us about that?
	Like specifically, what experience, either not your shield or just my personal background with JWs and media?
	No no, no.
	The the, the legal and medical information, Legal and oh, as far as far as, like the trans stuff we were talking about, yeah, absolutely.
	I've yeah, please.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Um, so there's this outstanding issue of like the trans pl I call them trans plus community, and basically um they take heed with people like me because when it comes to like what Milo said about um transgender or transsexual being a mental illness, um in order to receive health insurance and health care for transgender care, you legally need to prove medical necessity.
	And a part of medical necessity is the DSM-5, which states that transsexualism is a mental illness.
	Now, that's only because right now there is no scientific evidence to prove if it's genetic, biological, but the symptoms present themselves in the psychosis, and that's why it has that diagnosis.
	And these people that you know take heed with me, and they're basically the ones you usually see on like internet aristocrats, Tumblrisms video, they don't think it's a mental illness, they don't think it's a disease.
	And the problem I have with them is by having that kind of rhetoric, you send a message to people out there like the TERFs, the trans-exclusionary radical feminists who want to remove transgender rights that medical designation and therefore we shouldn't receive any additional treatment via health insurance or in the healthcare industry.
	That is, I think, a really, really important thing that more people need to know about because I'm sure if there's one thing most people in GameGate are behind, it's not removing people's rights.
	Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt.
	It is really interesting.
	I got Tara in because a couple of people dropped, but they've started coming in again on the list.
	Tara, if it's all right, I'll probably want to actually have a one-on-one with you at some point, if you don't mind.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I'm always happy to come in and talk to anyone.
	I mean, I think that one of the things that's gotten out of hand is that with Gamergate, you see a lot of trans plus people attacking Gamergaters, and it paints this very narrow, very negative image of what trans people are actually like.
	And I'm glad to actually be able to stand forth and go, hey, my uncle worked at Atari when I was born.
	So it's like I've been a gamer since almost day one of my life.
	That's awesome, honestly.
	I'm really glad you've come on.
	I really am.
	And I really do want to talk to you in the future.
	Thanks again.
	Thank you.
	Have a good night.
	Cheers.
	Just before the next guest speaks, are you guys sure you want to forfeit your places to Mr. Baldwin?
	If he's willing to wait, he's willing to wait.
	You know, this whole stream was started just to get people who are marginalized, who are smaller, just to get their voices out.
	It's up to you guys.
	Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to just carry on for as long as I can stay awake.
	If you have to go server, I'll do it.
	It'll just be slower and more clumsy.
	Oh, no, I'm good.
	I'm wide awake again.
	I'm just saying to the guys in the chat who are trying to forfeit their place.
	Yeah, let us know.
	I mean, it's not like they can't come on afterwards.
	Okay.
	Adam's probably busy, so I can understand why people would.
	I just need one to make the call, you know?
	Well, no problem.
	Well, what I'll do is I'll give him the link after the next person here who's muted currently.
	Okay, yeah.
	Who's the Not Your Shield hashtag person?
	Yeah, hello guys.
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah, I can hear you.
	How's it going?
	Yes.
	Hi, yeah, it's going fine.
	Quick background for any of the watchers.
	This is the guy who runs the at Not Your Shield Twitter as in the Not Your Shield project Twitter.
	And I basically just came on to talk about a few things in general, which I'm sure everybody noticed in the past couple of weeks, especially with recent events.
	And it's like the problem I feel like we've reached right now, especially with this whole stop Gamergate thing, is we've hit this completely absurd ideological wall where it's not reason that's dictating action, it's fear.
	Like, the fear narrative is so strong that nobody wants to even consider Gamergate side because nobody wants to be a misogynist, and rightly so.
	Nobody wants to fear harassment.
	Nobody wants to fear doxing.
	They basically have sold the public this idea that if you so much as touch Gamergate, then instantly your life will be set on fire.
	And that's what's so disturbing.
	You could send them all the links, all the information you want.
	You can send them all the notch your shield stuff, which I've been doing, and then they'll just be like, pshh, but women were harassed.
	And I think that's the issue.
	We keep hitting this full stop, this dead end of, oh, but someone is harassed, therefore everything should stop.
	And I find that sad.
	I feel like, why in our society is that the dead end of everything?
	That somebody was harassed.
	I think it's the dirtiest tactic they could choose to employ.
	And it is.
	Wherever they go, they create a culture of fear because they are not above just ganging up and dogpiling.
	Frankly, I think they're bullies.
	And the quicker everyone stands up to them, the quicker they're going to fuck off.
	So I think everyone should seriously do that.
	And I'm talking to the AAA developers who I know don't like these people.
	Come out.
	You're not going to get abandoned by Gamergate.
	You're not going to get abandoned by the gamers, the people buying the games.
	And that's just what I wanted to say.
	I mean, that's definitely true.
	And I think that I just don't understand.
	How do these people not see that you're not helping women?
	You're scaring them.
	You're scaring the public in general just for the idea of supporting gamers.
	Every time an article runs saying that the sexism in the game industry, it's basically another signal to say, oh, if you're a woman, don't get into gaming or tech because your life will be ruined.
	And I think that's problematic.
	And I don't understand how many times we have to say that people on the pro-GG side have been doxed and threatened.
	I mean, recently on my tweets, I was saying something along the lines of, what, does the woman who is doxed and threatened have to be a friend of somebody for it to matter?
	Do they have to have an article written about them for it to exist?
	Because I think that's what's starting to happen.
	So much for that listen and believe crap, because apparently, unless we have an article written about them, unless they've made a game or something, they're not relevant enough to matter.
	And I think that's the really disgusting thing to me as the guy who's promoting Not Your Shield.
	That's actually why I'm doing this now.
	I want everyone to be heard.
	I really do.
	Because there are a lot of independent voices that need to be heard.
	So thanks for coming on.
	I appreciate that.
	Yeah, I mean, because I think what I'm trying to do recently, once I saw this happen, is more than ever, promote the Not Your Shield hashtag and promote the Not Your Shield We Are Gamers video because I feel that other than obviously the relevant people who boosted the video to where it is right now, it's over 63,000 views.
	But I feel like people still are ignoring it in general.
	It's like they just think, oh, it doesn't matter.
	Who cares?
	Did someone mention something like, oh, just because a woman supports your movement, it doesn't mean that you're right or whatever.
	I don't know, something along those lines.
	So I feel like this is a problem we're still having where it's like nobody wants to consider, oh, but women and minorities support it.
	Therefore, it might mean something.
	Okay, tweet it to me and I'll retweet it.
	And I recommend that everyone watch it.
	Yeah, I mean, because the thing is, when I first made the video, when it first started, I thought that if we give people this evidence, if we give people this evidence that Notcher Shield supports Gamergate, that women and minorities support Gamergate, then that would be fine.
	Because maybe I'm naive.
	Maybe I'm used to this whole internet thing.
	But I assume that when people were saying, oh, it's misogyny, oh, it's just white males, I thought they wanted proof of otherwise.
	So I gave them proof of otherwise, but then they still insisted that it's misogyny.
	And then I was like, what?
	I thought you wanted proof.
	I know why this occurs, right?
	This occurs because these people are propagandists.
	That's what they do.
	That's what they've studied.
	Look at Jonathan McIntosh's website.
	Is it Rebellious Pixels, I think?
	And if you look at his about section, it even says in there that Glenn Beck has called him a marvelous propagandist in some form of way.
	But they use the word propagandist, and his video was the best propaganda he'd ever seen, or something like that.
	These people are manipulative.
	So that's why.
	They know how to use propaganda.
	And everyone knows the power of propaganda.
	So would you say that this is just money and hits?
	That they're not actually trying to find any actual truth?
	Of course not.
	The opposition are not interested in the slightest.
	So just make sure everyone's aware.
	Whenever you use Game Gate, I try to use Not Your Shield because you guys need to hear it as well, and it helps boost the visibility of the thing, even if it's just by a little bit.
	Yeah, definitely.
	The Stream Chat's calling me naive.
	Yeah, I get it, guys.
	Sorry.
	No, no, no, no.
	It's alright, man, because everyone's going in on this with the best of intentions.
	And I think a lot of people assume that their opponents think like they do.
	I don't think these people think like we do at all.
	You know, we're used to giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I've found myself doing that, and it's always wrong.
	They're always as bad, or if not worse, than like as bad as I would have thought, you know, so and I hate to say it.
	I hate to say it, you know, because it sounds awful.
	I would hate for someone to say that about me, but god damn it, they keep proving wrong.
	You know, or they're not wrong.
	They keep proving my pessimism right.
	But yeah, sorry, I'm going off the morning.
	Yeah, that's all right.
	Because I think you mentioned Pixie Jenny or whatever.
	In fact, I think that at some point she said she was going to come on a stream with me and that never happened.
	Like I emailed her and everything.
	Don't do it.
	Don't do it.
	Oh, no, I'm glad I didn't, because after what happened with your stream, I was like, oh, this is a problem.
	Yeah, I'd rather me take the hit than anyone else take that hit because she's awful.
	Don't.
	Right.
	So, I mean, all I'm going to say is, because I don't want to hold up anyone, especially if Adam Baldwin's coming later on.
	All I'm going to say is to all the viewers, just to people in general, there's never been a better time to promote Not Your Shield.
	Like, we have to drive this point home.
	This isn't about the literally who's, and I'm just going to say their names.
	This isn't about Quinn Sarkeesian or now Wu.
	This isn't about misogyny or harassment.
	It's never been about that.
	It's about ethics.
	And we have to show that this is a grassroots movement with several people from around the world supporting it.
	If they don't get that, we have to make it clear.
	And eventually, when the media picks up on that, that whole narrative of sexism is going to crumble.
	And that's what we need to happen.
	Yeah, I agreed.
	Fully agreed.
	Thanks for coming on, man.
	Really appreciate it.
	Yeah, thanks for having me.
	Mr. Baldwin's ringing, but apparently he says no answer.
	Really?
	I'm just going to.
	I thought it was a link.
	It is a link.
	I'm just asking him which browser he's using.
	Well, I have to say this is the first time I've spoken to an honest to God celebrity.
	So I'm probably going to be a dick by accident.
	I'm going to try to steep it.
	I'm a bit nervous.
	Oh, that's if he gets in.
	It's all going to hell in a handbasket by the looks of it.
	Do you want me to.
	I've still got people that were in the queue.
	Yeah, get someone else in.
	And if Adam can get in, then he can just join in and we'll be fine.
	He can wait till the end like everyone else.
	Yeah, Tori Stitcraft, you have the link.
	Great.
	Hello.
	Oh, and this is a guy from earlier.
	This is a different one.
	Okay, sorry, who's this?
	Andrew?
	Hello.
	I think he's been having technical difficulties for quite some time.
	Technology just doesn't work.
	I don't know.
	No.
	I think it's just join the link, but no.
	Is there anyone else?
	I've just sent the link to a couple of people and so what I'll do is I'll just mute people who have kind of missed their turn and they can wait and then you know that's fine.
	I don't know what Adam's doing.
	He's quite slow to respond to PMs at the moment.
	Well done, Tori.
	I told you to make sure you'd installed the plug-ins, everybody.
	You know, it's amateur.
	Well, Google Hangouts is it is a pain.
	So I understand why everyone has a problem with it.
	I really do.
	It's a bloody pain.
	So yeah, make sure that it's all set up to go into a Google Hangout before.
	Sorry, guys.
	The Hangout app, it rang on Sargon's account, no answer.
	Did it?
	Oh, shit.
	Is there anything...
	Oh, um, can you...
	just click that unfortunately there I don't just like you can do invites by Google but I'm there are a lot of Adam Baldwin's like that the pictures are tiny and I can't see whose and Do you want me to try and see it?
	Yeah, is there a control panel where I can give you power to be able to embed?
	Oh, there is.
	There is a control room.
	See, I'm such an amateur.
	Sorry about this, guys.
	You're not the only one.
	I mean, I thought we had a good...
	Oh, we got another guest anyway.
	I'll try and work with Mr. Baldwin to sort this out.
	Is that Cale?
	Hello?
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	What would you like to say?
	Not bad.
	I just want to say that I'm actually a game design development student.
	And right now, all this stuff with Gamergeats, just pardon my language, but it's got me scared shitless right now that, you know, I'm going to get out of college and not be able to find a job.
	Right, okay.
	Why don't you think you'll be able to find a job?
	A lot of it has to do with seeing people from some of the bigger companies come out against GamerGate.
	For example, one of the ones I'm pretty sure...
	It's alright.
	Sorry.
	I'll mute that person for now.
	Sorry, okay.
	One of the people that I had seen come out against it was a PR executive for one of the more major AAA game developers.
	And I'm actually concerned that, you know, as coming out for Gamergate, saying, you know, I support women in gaming, I support transparency and ethics in games journalism, that pretty much they're going to end up seeing that and going, oh, well, you know, we see this movement as this, so, you know, we probably don't want to hire this guy.
	Well, I think, I mean, you've got studios.
	Warhorse are quite pro-Gamergate, aren't they?
	Yeah, they are.
	Yeah, they've been very pro-GameGate, which I have got absolutely nothing but respect for those guys, especially.
	Has everyone seen their game?
	It looks like an amazing version of Mountain Blade.
	Not that Mountain Blade isn't amazing, but it looks like a high-budget version of Mountain Blade.
	Oh, definitely.
	Yeah, and I'm very excited to get killed by trolls in it.
	So, yeah.
	I wonder what the modding of it is going to be like afterwards.
	It's going to be very interesting to see, isn't it?
	Oh, I fully agree with you.
	Because they're pro-Gamergate.
	Thanks for sharing that with us.
	I do appreciate it.
	Oh, no problem.
	Thanks for having me.
	No problem.
	Thanks.
	Thanks, guys.
	That's great.
	Cheers on.
	I'll unmute Sandrew.
	Actually, what?
	Why can't I unmute him?
	I think he's muted himself.
	Oh, Sandra, are you.
	Hello?
	Hello, Rick.
	Yeah.
	Oh.
	Hey, how's it going?
	Thanks.
	How are you?
	I'm doing good.
	Cool.
	What would you like to say?
	I'm kind of nervous right now, so.
	Don't be.
	Okay.
	I guess with the whole Gamergate scene, I would like to really find out some information of where the hell did white privilege come from because with the whole concept about it, I'm like, I'm a black guy, so I wouldn't really care about white privilege.
	But I talked to my parents about it, and they seem to completely agree with it.
	So I just want to get some information about that.
	Yeah, pretty much.
	Okay, I'm guessing it came from quite a long time ago.
	Because, I mean, you don't get it, as you said, right?
	I mean, if you don't get it, it's obviously something that's not really impacting your life, I guess.
	You know, I mean, I see.
	Are you in university or I'm actually in college right now?
	Right.
	So maybe it's something from a previous generation that people have just got sore, you know, maybe they're just sensitive about it or something.
	I don't know.
	I mean, I can't exactly remember where it came from.
	I'm sure I can find out there.
	Yeah, and then you got the people who are saying like gamers are just a bunch of white people who are living in their mom's basement.
	I actually live in the attic, not in the basement.
	But, you know, I'm still, I am living with my parents, but you know, that's what you got to do when you're in college.
	But it's just amazing how people are just like so, I want to say brainwashed in how the real world actually works.
	It's not like that at all.
	It's like fear, you know?
	It's like running rampant.
	Like, oh my God, there's white people around me.
	What should I do?
	Yeah, it's being oppressed.
	Help me.
	Yeah, no, it's crazy that it's come to this, isn't it?
	You could make the show up.
	No one would believe you.
	No one would believe this is happening.
	I just find it amazing how all this suddenly comes out of the woodworks.
	I believe on October the 14th, everybody was talking about how gamers are like a bunch of misogynists.
	Now, it's crazy.
	Like, where are these people coming from?
	Academia.
	It all comes from academia.
	They're a bunch of extremists, basically.
	Yes, Marxists.
	And I'm not kidding when I say they're Marxists.
	They write papers titled things like perspectives on family therapy praxis from a feminist neo-Marxist perspective or something.
	I've mangled that title, but that's basically what they're saying.
	And I'm not kidding, they are.
	And it's just, okay, that's, you know, I'm surprised they would be so brazen about it.
	I would have thought they'd want to hide that, but apparently not.
	And these are the sort of people who have invented white privilege.
	Yeah.
	And it's like, I didn't see the video of the XOXO fest, but it was like it was no, it was just a, it was just full white guys there.
	It was like, it was like no single black guy in there in the crowd.
	And yet they want to talk about how there's female oppression in games and all that stuff.
	And it's like, you guys are crazy.
	Notice how those white guys were the quite privileged ones as well.
	Exactly.
	Ironic, isn't it?
	That everything they do is projection.
	You know, I'm not a privileged white guy.
	That's crazy.
	Not that I'm saying that's a privilege, but you know what I mean.
	Yeah, yeah.
	But yeah, it's mad, isn't it?
	Yeah, and it's really crazy how these people, like with the Brianna Wu incident, like if you're getting harassed online, which is common with the internet, if you're getting harassed online, you don't make Kotaku do a news article about it so the harasser can know what you're doing.
	It's crazy.
	And then he goes ahead, goes on the news, and talk about it even more.
	And you're just setting yourself up.
	So these other people who claim that games are a bunch of misogynists use this as proof, and they're using you now.
	It's crazy.
	I recommend watching that Anita Sarkeesian's XOXO Fest video.
	It's easy to find if you just search for that on YouTube.
	And you can see exactly all of it.
	It's literally like everything that's wrong with this.
	She says things like, yeah, that's where Listen and Believe was one of the places that was said.
	Although it's an older meme than that.
	And just, you know, she says how it's a new culture coming into gaming.
	And then she mocks the idea that a lot of these threats are faked.
	And she says, you know, like, where's my feminist army that does this?
	Instead of everyone laughing, everyone cheers.
	And it's like, okay, I think you're missing the point, guys.
	You just made yourselves look like the damn feminist army.
	And I just found out what this, like, when I first appeared on Gamergate, I didn't know what SJW is.
	But looking at these comments, it's like, oh, these are what SJWs are all about.
	And people just need to realize that these are grown adults.
	These women are grown adults.
	They're perfectly capable of handling this stuff themselves.
	They don't need a white knight, but yet these people come out of the woodworks and say, you're a bunch of misogynists, and you're compared to ISIS, and now we're worse than Nazis.
	It's like, whoa, where is this coming from?
	They are mental, and I think that they do entirely talk about themselves.
	I don't think they're capable of talking about other people, actually.
	I'm sorry to come to that conclusion.
	Okay, I've just got to ask the chat something very briefly.
	If anybody knows anything about apps and Google Hangouts on phones, Adam Baldwin's calling in from a phone through an app.
	Shit.
	So if anybody wants to try and fix it in the chat, don't spam the chat.
	If you don't know, you know.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Just try and help me out here.
	I would like to get him on.
	I just don't know anything about the technical side of this.
	Do I add apps?
	Is there a phone app or something?
	I'm not sure how this works.
	Right, okay, yeah.
	I have no idea what I'm doing.
	So should we just Mason?
	Sorry.
	He's the next guest.
	Okay, Duck.
	Mason, are you there?
	Hello, Mason.
	Come in, Mason.
	Nope, hello?
	We're being told to tell Adam to download the Hangout app.
	Oh, apparently he has.
	He said, sorry, I tried.
	Stay happy, Warriors.
	No worries.
	I'm sure we can figure out another time if he's available.
	Yeah, if he's available another time.
	I mean, sad to hear, but what can you do?
	Well, maybe you can organize.
	Hello, we can hear you.
	How's it going?
	Hello?
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	What would you like to say?
	This is not.
	This is apparently not working for me.
	First time I'm doing Google Hangouts.
	I apologize.
	If it doesn't work, feel free to kick me off.
	I can hear you.
	I think everyone else can.
	Oh, there we go.
	I can hear you guys too now.
	That's excellent.
	Okay.
	Apparently, it didn't take me too long to figure that out.
	I'm not a complete retired.
	That's good.
	How's it going, mate?
	I'm doing pretty good, man.
	I'm doing pretty good.
	I've been watching everyone's videos for a while now.
	Kind of followed Gamergate back before the Exodus from 4chan, probably along with the rest of you guys.
	And it's just been kind of, well, a big pain in the ass, really.
	Yeah.
	What exactly are your thoughts on it?
	So I take probably maybe a somewhat of a different approach than everyone else has in regards to Gamergate.
	My focus really is kind of on the historical lens.
	So what kind of precipitates any action in the present from the past?
	And it's often that, especially in unique countries, there's a certain set of like, it's what's called a historical cyclicity.
	So it's something that happens over and over again, and it kind of falls out of trend and it falls back into trend.
	And that's something that's happening quite a lot in America.
	We have a very strong foundation of what's called Puritanism, so like puritanical values.
	There was a time, I'm sure you guys remember, when the word un-American or unpatriotic held a lot of weight.
	And there were these slanderous terms you could throw against somebody and peg to them.
	And if you use it against them, it could be used as such a strong pejorative that you wouldn't be able to come back in the eyes of many.
	And that's what happens now, especially in the case of misogyny, in the case of racism.
	These are words, it's kind of like Godwin's law for the 21st century, except instead of like Nazis and Hitler, it's feminism and patriarchy and misogyny.
	And these terms that are labeled against people just to use as a pejorative.
	They don't want to debate your argument.
	They don't want to conflict with your view.
	They just want to shut you up.
	Yeah, I completely agree.
	I think that's a really good point.
	And I think one of the things that people need to start looking out for is basically labels.
	They're very rarely that productive in interpersonal dialogue, especially if you're using them as a pejorative.
	So I think people should generally look out for that, but it's never going to happen, I doubt.
	But we can try.
	No, I agree.
	I mean, in general, I'm a university student, so just to make this make more sense.
	If I'm talking to people about feminism or any political or economic function or even biology or just whatever subject, and they ask, okay, what do you believe on X?
	The immediate question that people ought to be asking back is, well, what do you mean?
	What do I believe in X?
	What are your beliefs?
	Like, what are your independent beliefs on different topics, different values?
	What do you think is the right approach to X, Y, or Z?
	Not what is your branded ideology so I can slander against your entire ideology without thinking about it.
	That's a really lazy way of thinking.
	I think it was Aristotle who said originally, it is the hallmark of an educated mind that can entertain a thought without accepting it.
	And I think that's really important.
	It is.
	I think I've quoted that many a time because a lot of people say to me, oh, don't talk to that person or don't have that person on your podcast because they have a method of thinking that the other person doesn't like and they don't want me to be associated with it and tarnished by it.
	And I'm really not bothered about that.
	I'm pretty sure that the people who watch my videos and listen to me are well aware that I'm not like that.
	So I agree.
	And I think that more people should be aware of that axiom.
	I really am.
	It's a very good axiom.
	I mean, if you have presumptions in life, that is one of the few ones to live by that.
	And obviously, the absolute laws of logic are pretty good too, if you're a philosophical materialist.
	But something I wanted to do to connect what I was saying more towards Gamergate in general and maybe give some perspective on that is that there was a time in America where labeling somebody a communist or a Marxist was very powerful.
	There was obviously McCarthyism to where communists were grounded up and found and thrown in jail just for being communists.
	And what we're seeing now is really a resurgence in the exploration in academia at least.
	I've taken a few classes in regards to sociology and stuff and kind of the breeding grounds for this bullshit.
	And people are really now starting to look back at Marx with some kind of fresh light.
	And they're still very young.
	So they don't really have a historical context.
	All they're learning about is the philosophy.
	And while his philosophy is important and interesting in regards to, say, economics or his critiques of politics or economics, he, by and large, is utterly discredited.
	But he's treated as and brought up as and used as somebody of real intellectual heft.
	And the problem we're seeing with that is the resurgence of what some people here have called cultural Marxism.
	And it's true.
	It's like what we see in these media outlets is that, but they don't want equality of opportunity.
	They want equity.
	So they want equity.
	They want an equal result.
	They want their views represented regardless of who was against them.
	I mean, I could see these guys going on Stormfront and being like, all right, guys, I know you guys hate black people, but I need to hate some whities.
	Give me an equal part of this site.
	It's like, this type of stuff is crazy.
	I mean, I've actually read the Communist Manifesto, and it is compelling.
	I won't lie.
	It's a compelling thing to read, especially if you're not rich.
	I can understand why he thought it was going to take root in England, of all places.
	He thought that was where it was going to go, but it didn't.
	And the thing is, I think what he forgets is human nature.
	I haven't read it for a few years, so I'm quite hazy on it.
	But the overwhelming impression I came away from it was, yeah, it sounds nice, but people just aren't like that.
	And I don't think you can make them like that.
	So, yeah.
	Thanks for coming on, man.
	Thanks for making it.
	If I could read you one little line, I want to read this line.
	It's from Mandeville.
	I don't know if you guys know who he is.
	It's 17th, 18th century philosophy on, it's a criticism of virtue in economics.
	I'm an economics major, so I like to study Marx and that kind of stuff.
	I know a little bit about him.
	But he ends his little poem there, is his polymic piece, The Grumbling Hive of Knaves Turned Honest, in his critique of virtue and capitalism, saying how virtue can't really be, can't work in capitalism.
	People need to be able to express their own ideas independent of each other to be able to create competition and stuff.
	Anyway, he ends it with, Bear virtue can't make nations live.
	Splendor, they that would receive a golden age must be as free for acorns as for honesty.
	And that's saying, in order for us to even be able to eat, that is essential.
	Now go ahead and compare that to when 50 million people died under Mao.
	It's a bit idealistic, isn't it?
	It's not ideal.
	It's not just idealistic.
	What it requires is for you to close your mind, close your eyes, and have such a fervent belief in that which cannot be proven that you are willing to make every single sacrifice possible, even including the possibility of your family, your friends, anyone who you believe in and love dying to be able to see that dream realized.
	It is a fool's dream.
	It is a stupid dream.
	It is the mark, I would say, almost as opposite as Aristotle did, is the mark of an uneducated man.
	Yeah, I completely agree.
	I think that's a really, really valuable point.
	I really do.
	Thanks for coming on, man.
	No problem.
	I love you guys' show here.
	I hope you guys have a great show.
	Thank you for having me on, and I will continue to be watching your channel.
	Thank you for your voice.
	Thank you.
	No problem.
	See ya.
	Take care.
	Okay, I think the next person was Dorian, was it?
	Hello?
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	What would you like to say?
	Hey, first of all, sorry, for my accent.
	I'm not a native English speaker.
	That's fine.
	Don't have to apologize for your accent.
	And thanks for doing this, by the way, making us actually be heard.
	Did anyone do anything?
	What would you like to say?
	All right.
	So a few days ago, there was that article about Bayonetta being over-sexualized and the camera angles to her cleavage and between her legs and whatever.
	I'm just wondering why they're slut-shaming her.
	Why do they assume that because a woman is dressed like that, she's dressing like that just to be a sexual object for men?
	Because men are enjoying it.
	They're sex negative if men are enjoying it.
	All right.
	I see.
	By that logic, Anita Serkezin is doing kind of the same thing.
	She's implying that women dress like that just to get men's attention, right?
	You know, the slut walks.
	Weren't they exactly because of this?
	Weren't women saying, well, if we dress like this, doesn't mean it gives you the right to assume that I'm a slut.
	Yeah, you're absolutely right.
	They are abject hypocrites.
	All right.
	And my second.
	Oh, sorry.
	Just my second point is that Anita Serkezian's second point is that women don't need rescue.
	Why doesn't she look like this at the problem?
	A guy is going through life-threatening situations, risking everything, fighting monsters, doing everything in his power to save the woman he loves.
	I think it's because they can't empathize.
	I really do.
	Sorry, I'm not trying to diffuse your point.
	I think you've got some great point.
	I really do.
	I mean, I'm not saying I'm right, even.
	It's just the impression I get, you know.
	But yeah, you're right.
	Exactly.
	It cares nothing for the fact that someone obviously cares very greatly.
	And just to make a point, the one thing that pissed me off about the women as objects, you can tell because Mario is trying to rescue Peach, is that if someone stole my car, I wouldn't risk life and limb to get my car back.
	I would just write it off, you know, be like, well, I can find another car somehow in the world.
	But if you're gonna go all that way for a person, that kind of implies that they're not an object, doesn't it?
	Exactly.
	Yeah, thanks a lot for having me.
	Not a problem.
	No problem.
	Just to address the chat, yeah, it's not because we don't have, you know, a lot of women queued up already.
	It's just we're trying to handle the queue.
	And it was for the first like 30, 40 ads, it was blokes.
	So not our fault.
	It's the British queuing system.
	You're going to have to get used to it.
	It has gone a bit to hell, but I'm trying to keep up.
	Give us the benefit here, guys.
	I'm right.
	Queenie Martha, I think.
	Hello, Queenie.
	Are you there?
	Yeah.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	How are you guys doing?
	Very well, thanks.
	How are you?
	I'm good.
	I'm good.
	What would you like to say?
	Well, firstly off, I would like to thank you guys to invite me in.
	And second of all, I would like to thank everybody who's watching and know me and follow me on Twitter for all the support that I had ever since my threats.
	First of all, I would like to point out that it's not the first time that I receive a threat like that.
	And second of all, it's nothing nobody should be concerned of.
	No matter how many Kickstarters they could start, cartels are really expensive.
	So don't think cartels wouldn't go for someone just because of a Twitter hashtag.
	So just be reassured that I'm fine, I'm safe, and I will be okay.
	Yeah, you know, I've been getting, well, I haven't been getting because of Gamergate, but I recently got one because of Gamergate.
	Threat.
	I haven't got a threat in a while, to be honest.
	But this was, you know, that threat where I don't know if you saw it on Twitter or not, but it specified that for everybody who doesn't know, it said, you know, it said like my country, my state, my city, and the area of the city that I live in.
	So you were like partially doxxed, were you?
	Partially doxed.
	And then they would say, you know, they have my full address, and that they would, you know, release it or whatever, and, you know, that they will get the cartels against me.
	The cartels are a big deal in Mexico.
	There are a lot of organized crime that are horrible.
	They terrorize the whole country.
	So obviously a lot of people use them lightly to make this type of threat.
	So, you know, I got this threat because of my involvement with Gamergate, of being pro-Gamergate.
	And, you know, I feel like there's a lot to take from that situation.
	But what I want people to understand of the situation is not the safety matter because I don't see it as a real threat.
	I don't see my life being at risk.
	However, I want people to understand the hypocrisy of people of anti-GG, because every time that I see somebody even trying to threat another person from anti-GG, I see Gamergaters, you know, like troopers going and reporting the Twitter of these type of people, of these trolls, because they're basically trolls, all right?
	So, you know, that's a great thing, but you don't see the same thing going on from the other side.
	I didn't saw any type of support from anti-DG of saying that it's wrong or anything like that.
	I sent my case to the New York Times because they were asking for the harassment thing of gay girls who are gamers.
	I sent my case.
	I explained it.
	I haven't received any email back.
	I haven't received anything like that back.
	I don't see anybody trying to cover up the story from the other side who has been harassed.
	And this is not the first situation of harassment.
	Obviously, Boogie has gone through it as well.
	Other people that I've known of have been going through it as well.
	Situations maybe not of death threats, but doxing definitely has been happening.
	And we can notice how hypocritical this is of the lack of coverage from this side when the situations are done to us who shouldn't be happening anyways, regardless.
	This shouldn't be something that to take lightly, especially something like the cartels.
	At least in my country, that's a big deal.
	That's nothing to play with.
	And you're basically putting an organized crime group in the land like that against somebody because of a different ideology.
	That's ridiculous.
	But we see the hypocrisy there.
	We see that there's no coverage for that and whatnot.
	The only coverage that I've gotten has been from Gamergate people, people who are supporters, people who understand that this is wrong no matter if whatever the situation, no matter your ideology.
	Yeah, totally agree.
	I think just how dangerous the Mexican cartels are, they're very dangerous.
	They're not a dangerous person.
	Don't even get me started.
	Let me tell you something.
	Let's not get too because there are other people waiting.
	Sorry, it's not that I don't want to.
	No, it's okay.
	Yeah, but yeah, just they are very dangerous.
	And I just recommend just showing a lot of support, guys.
	And just try and get papers.
	You know, try and get the media involved because one person saying something, you know, unless they're a feminist or social justice warrior, apparently they don't get heard.
	But I think if a lot of people are saying the same thing, like with Huffington Post, they get heard.
	Especially when, and I hate to say it, it's a woman, because if you're a man, they don't care.
	So, you know, sorry.
	It's true.
	It's true.
	So, you know, it's probably going to take a collective voice in a way.
	So if anyone can help, that'd be great.
	Yeah, I think that denouncing this type of stuff and pushing this type of stuff to like a media outlet, it's always great because you get to, you know, you peer pressured basically the media into denouncing it, you know.
	And somebody here was talking about earlier, was talking about the not your shield tag.
	I 100% agree it should be used.
	I 100% agree that, you know, this is a hashtag that should revive and that should be still used.
	And, you know, just keep pushing, guys, because maybe, you know, these certain media outlets just want to have like this very specific situation so they fit to their narrative.
	But I'm sure we can find a media outlet that will help us get the truth out.
	You know, like the Huffington Post live stream with like the Gamerger Girls was amazing.
	Like these girls killed it in my opinion.
	I was like, damn, we have some strong women in this movement.
	We have some strong men in this movement as well.
	We should be like, notice that.
	We have amazing attributes to this moment.
	We know what we are about.
	So don't let anybody intimidate you.
	Don't let them play this.
	Yeah.
	I've just got a lot of people in the backlog.
	Sorry.
	I do appreciate it.
	Yeah, thank you for watching.
	Thank you for waiting as well.
	Thanks for your voice as well.
	Okay.
	Well, thank you.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	Right.
	Kenton Ronan, I think you're up next, weren't you, Mick?
	Yeah, it was me.
	Sorry for the wait there.
	Oh, it's fine.
	Crazy stream.
	I mean, interesting, isn't it?
	Yeah, Adam Baldwin.
	I know Queenie, I watch her YouTube videos, and Mads, who's a friend of mine.
	Wow, unfortunately, we couldn't get Adam, which is a real shame.
	I'd love to have.
	Oh, you didn't?
	I left him for however long.
	This technological problems of some sort.
	But I understand it, so I don't understand that.
	What would you want to say?
	I've been noticing something with the media, which is that it starts with Huffington Post, which, as Queenie was saying, we put the women out there and we end up winning, so to speak.
	But a lot of the media, like CDB or the Canadian site, that posted that ridiculous SJW meme out there, whatever it was, like bomb threats and rape threats, because they're wrong.
	People need to be told rape is wrong.
	They got so much backlash.
	I heard that Jenny and Jemon, I forget the third one.
	I think it's at least Jenny, but I think all three of them are going on getting interviewed right now.
	I think that they're being interviewed by other press outlets, which is good.
	Yeah, which it's really good.
	And it's really good because we're second.
	They're going to trash us.
	And basically, we have, you know, ironically, we're using women as a shield.
	But we get the last word, basically, is what's going on.
	And because of that, the truth is going to, like, a lot of people who see it are going to believe that as true because they make themselves look so good that I mean, Ricky, that guy Ricky is not an idiot.
	I mean, and he wasn't trying to be biased.
	And the reason he kept bringing up feminism and stuff is because interviewing people isn't easy.
	I mean, you have to prep for it.
	You've got to write your questions ahead of time.
	And I think the one thing he couldn't do was I don't think he expected them to turn it around on him like that.
	And he just, I don't think he was prepared to ask the questions that needed to be asked other than sexism and misogyny.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And I think that's because that's all he's heard.
	But, you know, honestly, from what I've seen on his Twitter, he definitely, if I had to guess, I would say he's like a silent pro-Gamergate type.
	Really?
	He kind of seemed to want GameGate to stop tweeting him after GameGate reached the front page of the Huffington Post.
	I assume that he's not.
	Well, both of the interviews that he's done, he just gets belittled and berated, and I feel bad for him.
	But that's not what I came to talk about entirely.
	I think that's going to happen everywhere.
	The Young Turks, Chink, talked about it.
	I haven't been watching the Young Turks anymore because, as you said, they've gone up.
	Progressivism has put its head up his ass at this point.
	And I do like Chenk, and I do like Adam, but I can't watch it.
	I can't.
	It's torture.
	It's just awful.
	But I did watch it because they were talking about Gamergate.
	And he said something that made me think they're going to go back to it.
	And Ching's going to give it a fair shake.
	And he's going to end up giving a pro-Gamergate or a neutral message.
	Really?
	Which was, it doesn't make any sense if you are for ethics and anti-threats.
	It doesn't make any sense for your movement to make threats at Anita.
	Cool.
	Oh, hi.
	Could you please mute yourself?
	It's alright.
	I'll move to that now.
	Okay, sorry.
	We're just doing things in order.
	Sorry.
	And, you know, tweet at these journalists and at these reporters because they will listen.
	I mean, Ching is older and he's a little out of touch at this point, in my opinion, when it comes to things like video games.
	I don't think he necessarily gets it.
	But I think if he saw there was a concern for it and he really looked into it, I think he would present the facts.
	And I think he would.
	And I think that's the case for a lot of people because they're going to get the views that way and they're going to get all this praise and going to sound great.
	I'm expecting if this thing gets a little bit louder that all these satire news like Jon Stewart, Colbert, Oliver, God, I'll hate Oliver's.
	I just know I will.
	And Bill Maher are going to talk about it.
	And I can already kind of picture what's going to go on.
	I know Bill Maher, I'm hoping Bill Maher will be with us.
	Colbert will probably be on the fence or with us.
	John Stewart and Oliver are just going to bash us.
	So I can already see that.
	But regardless, we've already won, in my opinion, because the thing that they don't understand, and I don't think they're going to understand it, is that we have a gamer mentality.
	We don't give up.
	We see game over and we just click continue.
	Yeah, I mean, on top of that, I'm hard-pressed to say that I would say a majority of people who are hardcore gamers and were at a younger age were probably bullied.
	I mean, I know I was for multiple reasons, not necessarily video games, but I was definitely a nerd.
	I'm queer, too, so there was that too.
	But for me, I use video games as an escape, like a form of escapism, and that was my way to help my depression.
	And I don't believe I'm the only one.
	And I don't believe that when it comes down to it, I'm never going to roll over.
	It could just be me, and I'll tweet the hashtag.
	That's the kind of person I am at this point.
	Man, I'm with you.
	I'm in this till the end.
	Seriously, I want these people to win.
	We wrap it up there.
	Yeah, there's two ways I see this going.
	And they're both we win.
	One is we win, but like the media just hands it to us.
	We still win because these sites, they're not going to survive.
	I mean, you know, they're going to go get jobs in another career field.
	That's it.
	You know, and it's going to be, and we're just going to have to do this again 10, 20 years down the road.
	I can see that being the case.
	They're another Jack Thompson.
	Yeah, we're going to have another one.
	Or Tsar.
	They'll just keep getting added to this list.
	Or the second one I see happening, and this is a bit more of an extreme.
	The media does end up taking our side to some respect.
	And Gamergate kind of evolves outside of video games and goes into a national discussion about these types of people, these cultural Marxism.
	I mean, I think it's awakened a lot of people to it.
	It definitely for me has.
	There is something lurking in academia, and it's coming to the surface now, and it's not pretty.
	I'm genuinely worried about it.
	Thanks for coming.
	Oh, it's terrifying.
	Yeah, thank you.
	Next up is Hollywood, who was in the line.
	Yeah, sorry for the long wait, guys.
	I really do apologize.
	Yeah, Hollywood Knights.
	Are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Hi, how's it going?
	Good, how are you?
	Really good, thanks.
	What would you like to say?
	Yeah, well, you know, I just wanted to talk a little bit about your favorite guy, Jonathan McIntosh, actually.
	Can we try to keep the points a little bit quicker?
	Sorry, it's just that there are people waiting.
	I hate that.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I'll try to keep this as quick as I can.
	You know, one of the things that intrigues me most about this whole debate is really just the intellectual kind of ideology behind the whole thing.
	I'd like to argue on that one.
	You know, he makes it impossible, however.
	So, I mean, just for instance, last weekend, it was just a tirade of various kinds of studies that he was claiming that, you know, games make us sexist, they make us violent, they make us aggressive.
	And yeah, I mean, you know, it's just very hard to have a conversation with any of these people.
	So, honestly, I mean, you just have to go out and do your own research, look at the studies they're quoting themselves.
	And that's something that I've done at this point.
	I'm thinking about making a video about it in the next few days, and I just want to do my part, you know.
	Well, glad to hear from you.
	Glad to have you on board.
	If you tweet me something, I'll retweet it for you so everyone can get it.
	Cool.
	Yeah, well, thanks so much for having me on.
	Yeah, no problem.
	Take it easy, man.
	Take care.
	Is the next one gearhead?
	The next one, I think, might be Zeke.
	I think Gearhead's been in a while.
	Gearhead, are you there?
	Yes, I am.
	Can you hear me?
	I can hear you just fine.
	How's it going?
	Fine, thanks.
	How are you, Sog?
	Really good, thanks.
	What would you like to say, mate?
	I brought it up with King of Poll just earlier on today.
	Psychologically, it's going to sound like a bit of an extreme example, but psychologically, looking at this, SJWs, which I don't like calling them that, but hey, SJWs, they function exactly the same as racists in the way that they use these.
	Bear with me.
	They use these psychological terms called schemas, which dictate how we act in social situations, right?
	And schemas rely on early information.
	So the information they receive first, say like from an EOSian and stuff like that, that's what they're going to resort to.
	And any information that comes later is going to be a lot harder for them to adjust to.
	And people don't like to adjust their schemas because it's inherently just nasty being proved wrong.
	So it explains exactly why you talk to one, say, like Pixie Jenny, and you just get fucking stonewalled.
	Like, nothing happens.
	You know, you can't progress in a debate.
	So that's pretty much just what I wanted to add to it.
	It's an interesting way to look at it, I think.
	Yeah, I think you're right.
	I agree.
	I totally agree.
	I think that these people do.
	If anyone's got internalized racism, it's the people at the XOXO Fest, surely.
	Definitely, yeah.
	But yeah.
	Thanks.
	Thanks.
	Oh, one final point.
	Fuck Alex Lifshitz.
	Fuck that guy.
	He is a moron, second only to that Macintosh guy who wants movies instead of games.
	Fucking hell.
	Anyway, thanks for all your work.
	I'll leave you.
	See you later.
	No problem.
	Glad to hear you.
	Thank you for that.
	Right, Zeke, you're up.
	When I can figure it out and get it working.
	Zeke, can you hear us?
	Hello?
	Hello?
	How's it going?
	Good.
	Thanks for doing this.
	This is something I think this movement needs to happen with regularity.
	It was actually Cerberus's idea.
	He was kind of bitching me that he was basically not being heard.
	And I was like, well, we could probably do something about that, you know?
	And then it occurred to me that everyone else was.
	It was just like a general thanks to everyone in the room, I guess.
	Yeah.
	Ironically, Curves is still not being heard.
	So, you know, screw it.
	No, I don't want.
	I want people.
	I want everyone here to be heard.
	I've shot my mouth off far too much.
	Sorry, go ahead, please.
	Yeah, I agree with the earlier caller that I'm very concerned about the effect these SJWs pushing their mentality online is going to have on the minds of young gamers and young boys in particular who are going to be blamed for things that they've never done and nobody they've known has ever done.
	And that is something I'm very concerned about.
	Yeah, it's all concerning, isn't it?
	It's just.
	Yeah, sorry.
	There's so many things to worry about.
	Yeah, I would really like to see more people on the game industry side of things come out.
	I feel like they've kind of been, for the most part, silent on this issue.
	And I feel like we're going to start to see people taking sides in the industry soon.
	I really think that's a good idea.
	But on a bigger scale.
	I think AAA devs are primed.
	I think a lot of them are definitely against social justice, invading where it's not really needed or welcome.
	Yeah, it's just a...
	It's almost sort of a...
	When you come into contact with these people, it's almost a losing battle out of the gate because there's no point in arguing with someone who's already decided you're not listening.
	You're not worth listening to.
	Yeah, exactly.
	They're bigots, frankly.
	They know that you're not with them and therefore they're against you.
	They've got an innate bigotry against people who are not on their side.
	Yeah.
	What can we do?
	I think there's actually a lot of potential.
	I was saying in the chat earlier, I think there's a lot of potential Gamergate supporters who are remaining neutral or remaining willfully remaining uninformed because they're afraid of backlash from some people that they know who might be SGWs.
	I feel like there's a lot of people caught in the middle that are just refusing to take sides here.
	Yeah, I agree.
	I agree.
	Were there any other points you wanted to make?
	No, I just leave some topics for other people.
	Great.
	Everybody needs to be heard.
	All right, thanks.
	Thanks a lot.
	Cheers.
	Okay.
	Yeah, Sarah, yeah.
	Sorry, I didn't mean to steal you thunder there, name.
	No, no.
	No, it's for God's sake.
	Just get on with it.
	I like winding you up.
	How are you?
	Hello.
	Oh, no.
	Sorry, I muted by accident.
	Hello.
	Can you hear us?
	Can we hear you?
	Can you hear me?
	Yes.
	Okay, awesome.
	All right.
	I don't know if you guys have had any women come up here and talk about this yet, but I'm going to kind of give my perspective of this whole thing as a woman.
	And frankly, I am offended at how Anita has responded to all of this.
	I mean, I understand no one likes to be threatened.
	I don't like being threatened.
	But, you know, you see women like Anna Kasparian and Shoe on Head and all these other women who get death threats, rape threats, and all that on a daily basis.
	And they ignore them.
	Because was someone threatening Shoe on Head?
	I'll kick their ass.
	Oh, I don't know.
	But, you know, I see nasty comments under all of their videos where they say things like, oh, you need to die in a hole, you stupid bitch, you know, stuff like that.
	And, you know, they all get that.
	And you know what?
	They deal with it.
	They metaphorically grow up hair.
	And, you know, Anita's main argument in her whole tropes versus women, damsel in distress thing, was women being disempowered.
	And, you know, when you give in to a threat like that, you disempower yourself.
	And that is why I am so upset about this.
	And she's disempowering herself and making, you know, women look bad and dragging Gamergate's name through the mud at the same time.
	So I'm just all around angry, you know?
	I think that's raised as well.
	You know, if you're a strong empowered woman, Anita, surely you just either block it and move on or face your criticism if it was actually criticism.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I think that's a great point.
	Thank you.
	And sorry, but that's why I'm not hiding my real name.
	I'm showing my face.
	You know, I'm not scared.
	I might get death threats.
	I might get rape threats, but you know what?
	It's a guy on a guy or girl.
	I don't want to say guy, that's me.
	A guy or girl online who is probably never going to see me, never going to know me.
	I'm not going to let them scare me.
	You know, it just seems really stupid to do that to me.
	Yeah, I totally agree.
	Don't give into it.
	You know, it's the fear that they use to win.
	Don't give into fear.
	It's the mind killer.
	You know, everyone knows it.
	People give into it.
	Thanks for making that point.
	It's a really good point.
	Really good.
	No problem.
	Thank you.
	Cheers.
	Right.
	Who was next?
	Kapathik, I think, was next.
	But can Zeke leave the chat just to make room for people to boot you, mate?
	Right, yeah.
	Kirpatik.
	I can you hear me?
	I can.
	How's it going?
	Yeah, you pretty good.
	Use me.
	Use one of my tweets in one of your videos.
	I forget what it was.
	It was the If I Were a Boy hashtag.
	Yeah, you were talking to Anita Sarkeesian, weren't you?
	I was just talking to whoever was in that hashtag, just being a shit, because I'm a huge shit poster.
	No, no, I think you were tweeting Anita Sarkeesian, weren't you?
	And you were making some good points or something.
	Was it anything?
	No, it was just If I Were a Boy because I can't remember the name, but over here in the States, there was a case where a lady pretty much drugged and raped an underage male, and she got pregnant, and then she sued him for not alimony, with child support.
	And the courts said, Yeah, dude, you have to pay for your child.
	And it's like, you know, you know, she raped an underage male, and you're seriously going to say pay her fucking money.
	So a female pedophile is getting paid money from the person she raped.
	Yeah.
	Bloody hell.
	Yeah.
	Bloody hell.
	This is the problem with legalism.
	Being excessively legalistic leads to these sort of circumstances.
	Use discretion, courts.
	God damn it.
	I mean, that's insane.
	That's the most horrible story.
	I mean, we're laughing because it's absurd.
	We're not laughing because of this poor guy.
	That's a fucking horrible situation to be in.
	But it sounds stupid, doesn't it?
	Oh, yeah.
	Sorry, yeah, sorry.
	I didn't mean to.
	That fucking.
	No, no, no worries.
	I was just.
	I mean, I was a cop with Gamergate right from the start and whatnot.
	And I mean, pretty much for the past few years, I never really went to a whole lot of the gaming sites because you can't spell ignorance without IGN and all the other good things, you know, just always word of mouth.
	Or, you know, when the actual print magazines are still around, I usually did that.
	You know, I picked up PSM or whatever was available at the time.
	And then just see how watching the last few years is like, what the hell is going on?
	You know, I grew up in the arcades in the 80s and 90s.
	And yeah, there weren't a lot of girls, but there are plenty of minorities.
	Everyone was there.
	Yeah.
	And you all gaming enthusiasts, wasn't it?
	Yeah, you all played.
	And we have the internet, whatnot, now.
	We didn't have that back then.
	You were literally six inches away from each other.
	And I'm not going to lie, yeah, fights happened.
	I pretty much had my first fight in an arcade.
	And as, you know, I understand, yeah, you want to be softer and gentler to kind of get new people in.
	But at the same time, whether it's the internet or online, you have to realize there are people there, but at the same time, not everyone is going to behave just because.
	And I mean, I'm not saying be a dick, but it's up to you to force other people to act to your way.
	Yeah.
	And I'm probably vocalizing myself badly, but I mean, you know, I'm saying don't be a dick, but at the same time, you have to have a certain level of grit, I guess, to kind of hang because, I mean, the way stuff happened, a lot of the older people were like, you know, I don't give a shit.
	You know, fight me in real life.
	I'll take you on right here.
	And everyone's like, what?
	And everyone's, you know, well, calm down.
	It's like, no, I'm not going to calm down.
	This is how we did it back then.
	It is, man.
	I was going to say, how old are you?
	I'm in my 30s.
	I'll sit in.
	I'll say.
	Me too.
	So I know exactly what you're talking about.
	I really, I was there, man, personally.
	Yeah, no, thanks, Carl.
	And I've actually wanted to, because I've followed you on Twitter and I've seen a bunch of tweets because you make good points.
	So thanks for coming on.
	I appreciate it.
	No problem.
	Last point.
	Buy bayoneted to piss off what's his name?
	I'm out.
	Bye.
	Right.
	Who's next?
	Eric Foreman, was it?
	Yeah.
	Eric, can you hear me?
	And can we hear you?
	Hello.
	Eric, are you there?
	Hello.
	Can you hear me?
	Can you hear me right now?
	Okay.
	Sorry about that.
	I guess it's not set correctly.
	That's all right.
	Anyway, I was actually going to bring up a point that was there was a girl who was on here the call before last who made a really good point about harassment.
	And I'm the one who's one of the people who recently got a harassment, a death threat, and a dox.
	And I did leave my house.
	I'm not there right now.
	But the point I was trying to make is she said something about both grow a pair and empowering, you know, how these threats empower people.
	And I completely, completely agree with her.
	But I think we're not actually fighting a battle of dignity, but rather a battle of media at this point.
	So I had a choice of just ignoring it and not posting it or for me to try to put this out there so people know that it happens on both sides And somehow try to get our voice out in that manner.
	So, I mean, I understand the grow-a-pair argument, and I definitely am not trying to let them get over on me.
	Good.
	Thanks for coming on and telling everyone.
	Sorry, Kyron.
	Anyway, I love your guys' show, by the way.
	So I'm just going to get off at this point.
	Okay, well, no, thanks a lot for coming on.
	I really appreciate it because it's important that voices like this are heard and that these tales are told because otherwise people just don't know about them.
	Well, I mean, no, I appreciate it.
	And like I said, it's not the main thing I wanted to say as well is beyond all of this, we have to keep things constructive and you have to keep things focused.
	We have to keep going for their pockets, the money of the people who are, you know, the social justice warriors are nothing but a punching bag and they can't win.
	They already have lost.
	We've won.
	The point is, at this point, I'm not trying to win.
	I already have Washington Post who's going to call me tomorrow, so I'm about to get on there at least, hopefully, unless I get done like the girl who was talking earlier.
	But yeah, I'm just trying to get as many wins out of it as possible because we've already won the main war.
	Yeah, we're pushing them back.
	It's very obvious.
	It's obviously pushing them back because of how much they've escalated it.
	They've really gone, this is where it hits the big time.
	And you're right.
	We've just got to get all the voices we can out that can just counter everything they say.
	Because one person is the living embodiment of everything that completely refutes everything they say in just a single person saying hello.
	So these people need to get out and say hello more often.
	It's just what's going to have to happen.
	So you guys are going to have to come forward and I'm sure that everyone's going to support you in that.
	I'm absolutely certain of it.
	Absolutely.
	I absolutely agree.
	I thank you guys for having me on.
	Not a problem.
	Thanks for coming on again.
	Thanks.
	Right.
	Tall black nerd.
	Hello.
	Can you hear me?
	Loud and clear.
	How's it going, mate?
	Sorry about that.
	Yeah.
	I just find this whole situation to be kind of hilarious in a sense where you have these people saying how we're all white with autonistic neckbeards and we're not diverse.
	And then we come out with a not your shield and their first response is to just go, oh, you guys are just a bunch of fucking sock puppets.
	You're not these, you're not all these people.
	You're not women.
	You're not gay guys.
	You're not trans.
	You're not blacks.
	You're not this.
	You're not that.
	And I'm just finding you guys are the ones saying that we are the bad ones.
	We're the ones who are harassing.
	Yet you can't even do us the courtesy of treating us like people.
	Like, they don't even attempt to treat us like human beings.
	We just become these shelves of ideas for them to fill us up with.
	I'm a black gamer, so I must need them to defend me.
	I must need someone to speak for me or talk for me.
	I'm like, that's fucking stupid.
	This is the same kind of tactics they used back when racism was big.
	I can't say racism isn't big now.
	But back when we were going through stuff like segregation, how they would demonize different ethnicities.
	They're doing the same exact things, but they're saying they're doing it for me.
	What kind of fucking shit is that?
	Yeah, I think it's crazy, man.
	And I'm glad you're here telling us and telling everyone who's going to watch this that they're full of shit.
	Yeah, they are, though.
	They completely are because not one person.
	I've watched all these streams.
	I watch your videos.
	I like your videos.
	I watched the Huff post thing and I was really proud of the fact that they had some Gamergator girls on there.
	But you look at the XLXL Fest, no social justice guy.
	They are projecting.
	They are what they say we are.
	They are all the straight cis white guys looking like hipsters from San Francisco.
	They're the ones who are all about homogeny and all that stuff.
	We're the diverse ones.
	And then they always want stuff like saying, oh, wow, your game maker doesn't have a leader.
	Hanaires doesn't have a leader.
	But I'm here like, where the hell is addressing?
	Is it Anita Sarkeesian?
	Is it Zoe Quinn?
	Is it Lee Alexandra?
	Is it Brianna Wu?
	Like, who are your leaders?
	You're saying we're using minorities as shields.
	You're using those women as shields.
	And I'm like, where is the honesty here?
	Where is the transparency?
	Why is it so hard for them to just be like, hey, here's one point.
	Here's another point.
	Let's meet someone in the middle.
	Like, I think GND had to freaking yell at HuffPost for them to put her on.
	But they weren't even going to even reach out to her.
	But they'll go talk to Brianna Wu, who says very contradictory things.
	They'll go talk to Anita Sarkeesian, who has, again, said contradictory things or has been caught in lies.
	They'll go talk to Zoe Quinn, who again has said contradictory things and caught in lies.
	But yet, we're the bad ones, we're the liars, and all that shit.
	I'm just tired of it.
	It's hilarious, too, though.
	It's really funny.
	Gold over there.
	Gold?
	Yeah.
	Hello?
	Oh, Sargon's multiplied.
	Oh.
	That's.
	I just wanted to ramble.
	Okay.
	He's dropped and rejoined.
	There you go.
	Okay.
	Sorry, I've got the world's worst estimate connection.
	I haven't really said anything that I haven't said before, I guess.
	I mean, I just wrote about this harassment stuff, too.
	I think they often conflate harassment with criticism.
	Like, very often, I see people getting criticized and they say it's harassment.
	And I'm like, I think we need a lesson on what harassment and criticism is because me talking about someone's work is not the same as me attacking a person.
	I didn't think Depression Press was very good.
	I don't like it.
	But that's not an attack on Zoe Quinn.
	But because I'm a man, she's a woman, it's automatically becomes this battle against the sexes.
	Yeah, it's the easiest tactic for them.
	It really is.
	It's just like if I were to say, oh, you disagree with me, you're racist.
	It's just like that.
	No matter what you say, no matter how valid your points are, it's going to be all muddled with the fact that I accuse you of racism, and now people are going to focus on why would you be accused of racism?
	And then not everything you say is going to be a tangent racism.
	And I don't have to provide any facts, I don't have to provide any sources to my claims.
	You're a racist.
	That's it.
	But now we replace racism with sexism and misogyny.
	So now they say you're a misogynist.
	That's it.
	Yeah, that's honestly, mate.
	You couldn't have put it any better.
	That's exactly what they do.
	Honestly, thanks for coming on, making that point.
	It's a really good one.
	Thanks very much, man.
	Thanks for having me.
	I'll be in the Washington Radium.
	I'll let someone else speak right now.
	Take care.
	Take care, man.
	Right, who was next?
	Sorry.
	It was Mustafa was it?
	I can't read the rest of it because it's back there.
	Yeah, Mustafa.
	Hello.
	Mustafa are you there?
	Hello, can you hear me?
	I can.
	How's it going?
	Yeah, yeah, really well, thanks.
	Really well.
	What would you like to say, Sir?
	Well, you know, nothing that I could whatever I'm going to say, like, I mean, it's been said over and over again.
	Before I say anything, I just want to thank you guys for being so articulate and calm in handling this whole situation.
	Like, I mean, there have been many internet controversies over the years, and there will continue to be many internet controversies over the most minor bullshit possible.
	But the way that you guys have handled this, especially in the way the media has almost ganged up together and sort of, you know, it could very quickly in the early days turned into a pissing match, a very long fucking pissing match.
	And I'm glad that you guys have been rational and it's frustrating to see that they are continuing to take the pissing match route instead of trying to counter our arguments.
	And they're just taking the stupidest route possible by making their opinions look stupid.
	And it's a really unfortunate position for them to take.
	And it's unfortunate that for us, the mainstream view for now, at least, I think, has been that Gamergate is a negative harassment campaign.
	And that's only because, only because the majority of these journalists and our friends was one of them.
	I mean, I was a friend of a couple of gaming journalists who had no qualifications in journalism whatsoever, managed to work, and it's still working for a number of large gaming publicists and magazines and whatnot.
	And the reason they got in was because they were chummy with their friends.
	It's all a huge degree of nepotism that goes on between these people.
	And it's just, it's unfortunate that people see the term 4chan and 8chan and whatever the hell.
	And it may as well be al-Qaeda, right?
	It may as well be al-Qaeda is funding a fucking children's charity or whatever.
	So they don't bother to fact check.
	Like for half of them, I was reading, what was it, the Guardian article recently, I think it's today, and they had this quote from the death thread or something from Anita.
	And, you know, he said it read exactly like something out of 8chan.
	And none of these people have obviously been into the threads, have been into any conversation or discussion with a pro-Gamergate person to see that every time harassment is taking place, everyone's derided it.
	No one has ever said, yes, we want to do this shit.
	We want to harass Anita.
	Let's call her an arsehole or whatever the hell over Twitter.
	No one has said that.
	And that's why these fucking journalists, man, they're so lazy.
	They don't bother to fact check.
	They don't bother to do anything.
	If my job was sitting in my arse all day typing bullshit into the fucking computer all day, I'd be fucking grand.
	I don't understand.
	It can't even be RCD.
	The most minor googling.
	It would take five minutes, not even five minutes, to go into a single thread.
	To even go on to a fucking Reddit and Reddit thread, look at the top rated and go taken action.
	Go into any of them.
	Just have a glance and say, can you see the fucking line that says, let's fucking harass Anita?
	There's nothing like that there.
	And that's what's so frustrating.
	You guys have all been so concise, so articulate in the way that you've handled this.
	But our opposition has just completely just shat all over it.
	And the unfortunate thing is that they have the media spotlight.
	The majority of them, they have their pals, they have their chums.
	And don't get me wrong, I don't mean to paint the opposition as being arsehoes, although some of them certainly are, don't get me wrong here.
	But they all have their opinions, and they're all very set in their opinions.
	And it's very easy to paint the opposite side as being complete huge dicks.
	I suppose I was doing that a minute ago, but to be fair, you know, you have to understand these people are in their friends and in their friend groups.
	I mean, they go drinking with one another.
	And it's a business contact as well.
	So if you lose business contact, if you say something that's out of line, then you're fucked.
	You're not going to get the fucking reviews or whatever the hell.
	It's a joke.
	It's just it is really unfortunate that We don't have like um we don't have the deserving opposition, I feel like you know, I've never seen such a coordinated and calm collective on the internet and a harassment campaign on a harassment, almost a harassment campaign, Jesus.
	Jesus Christ, what are you doing, man?
	I know, um, but I've never seen such a calm, like, campaign come together from like 4chan, from Reddit, from a whole load of other places.
	Like, five years ago, you would have said, like, oh, no, they're our souls.
	There is no way that would happen, is there?
	You know, no, and it's stranger than fiction, man.
	It is stranger than fiction, and it just seems like such a shame that we're not having a constructive argument with these people.
	We are with some cases, but unfortunately, it seems that the guys who are in charge of like writing, I mean, we had a good thing in the Offington Post the other day, but the guys in charge of like the Guardian and all these other ones, they've already made their mind up.
	They don't want an argument, they don't want anything like that.
	They just want a quick and easy article out the paper.
	Say, right, other harassment campaign, use are all our souls, Jesus, and then get on the next week.
	That kind of implies they've been pressured into doing it, doesn't it?
	But that's, I think there's something to talk about another time because we do have quite a few people waiting.
	I hate kicking people out because I'm actually really enjoying talking to everyone, but I've got loads of people to talk to.
	I didn't expect this to be so popular, to be honest.
	Not at all, man.
	Pleasure to come on here.
	I hope you keep up the good work, because you're speaking for all of us, not just one or two people, but thousands, if not a hundred thousand of us right here.
	Well, I'm just trying to speak for myself.
	I don't know what other people think, and that's why my comments are open.
	I learn a lot from my comments, and I like that.
	That's the thing: we're an echo chamber, but an open echo chamber, not like the other side.
	I think that means we're an echo chamber.
	I think that just means we're a forum.
	Well, yeah, that's what that's what I mean.
	I mean, an agreeing forum, but that allows discussion rather than just complete rambunky.
	You guys have got to talk.
	When this first started, everybody started following each other on Twitter.
	And we don't see that anymore.
	That actually came from 4chan from the V-boards.
	Everybody, you know, it was, and it grew like that.
	So start following each other.
	Start talking.
	Start spreading the ideas.
	Seriously.
	Yeah, just go through the Game Gate hashtag and follow some of the people in there.
	You'll meet people.
	It'd be interesting.
	Cool.
	Take care.
	Thanks for watching.
	Cheers.
	Right.
	Nicholas Goroff.
	Never heard of this guy before.
	I've had a hangout with Nicholas Goroff before.
	He's a journalist, independent journalist.
	Very took on.
	It went for a little while.
	It's good to talk to you again, Zargon.
	I've got to say, I think it may have been actually in that hangout in which I accused you of being a journalist and you kind of shied away saying, oh, no, no, no, no.
	I'm just a YouTuber.
	I've got to say, with the explosion of the way you've handled Gamergate, been reporting and investigating on such, that's, in my opinion, that's not really a label you can shirk away from anymore.
	I think you've earned your investigative journalist badge a couple times over now.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate that.
	I like to just call myself a polemicist.
	Yeah, I mean, that's a great term, too.
	But I mean, these days, I mean, you compare what's been going on to half the journalism out there, and it's just first-person bloggy diatribes anyway.
	Thank you.
	You want to make a point?
	Well, yeah, a couple of points.
	One, just from my political writing and observation experience, the evolution of Gamergate and the evolution of Not Your Shield as well has been just one of the most fascinating things I think I've seen in the course of my engagement in the political scene.
	It's, you know, I mean, a lot of people are worried about Gamergate becoming too political, and I can understand that.
	In a sense, it began political.
	Yeah, there's no shying away from that, I'm afraid.
	This was a political war that was brought into, you know, this was an invading force bringing their their, you know, their agenda into this otherwise non non-aggressive land.
	And now they're being not just now this land, you know, it's not just the residents of this community that are defend, you know, that are putting up a defense, but others are becoming allies who may have not even had the slightest inkling in gaming or really had cause to push back against this social justice nonsense.
	And while it does to a lot of people obviously look like a you know, just like a horrendous harassment mess or whatever they want to call it, this is starting conversations that have been in the making for a very long time about the nature of ideology, about the nature of zeitgeist mentalities and all this.
	And, you know, I mean, I'm so insanely hopeful watching this, especially with Not Your Shield.
	This is the first time in which the people who these social justice warriors have always presumed to speak for are stepping up and saying, no, I don't need you to speak for me.
	I can speak for myself.
	Thank you very much.
	And it's an interesting thing too, because I tweeted out the other day and it was a point that really struck me.
	I mean, how many free speech advocates have been created by this controversy?
	How many people have been sort of obligated by the nature of the opposition coming at them to step up and say, you don't have a right to tell me what I can say, nor what I should be able to hear or think?
	That's not your position.
	And in the debate, too, and this is striking to the second point, because I don't want to keep too many people in line here.
	But in regards to the nature of debate, the majority of the Gamergate side has remained calm and factual and objective.
	And they ask genuine questions of the opposition to which they responded with things like, oh, you need to educate yourself.
	You're privileged.
	Or, God forbid they're a minority of some kind or a woman or gay or something like that.
	It's, oh, you're clearly just a sock puppet.
	You can't possibly go against me.
	And one thing we have actually that's actually been started tonight, and something actually that was mentioned on Honey Badger Radio.
	A number of us have sort of gotten together to sort of try and put out a public call for Anita Sarkeesian to accept a public form debate against one of the Honey Badgers, ideally Karen Strawn.
	And there's even people even within Achan, they're saying, you know, let's put together a charity to raise money for this, and we'll put it towards a charity like the Fine Young Capitalists or something that actually advances women in gaming.
	And let's have that debate, because that's the one thing.
	They live within their little echo chamber.
	And if they really want their ideas and their notions and their assertions to have any sort of merit or validity, they need to be challenged.
	And I think really if we can push this debate enough, even if Femme Frequency and the whole lot of them refuse it or just ignore it, that right there is a stunning statement to the legions of people who, by way of these highly slanted mainstream media articles through MSNBC and The Guardian and all these others, when they actually get around to looking at this thing for what it really is,
	and they see that the folks on the Gamergate side and those with the Not Your Shield hashtag are speaking rationally, whereas it's just hyperbole and nonsense coming from the other side.
	And then they see there had been an open and honest challenge to a public debate that was either ignored or declined by the side which is so sure that it's right, that it will never stop talking.
	It'll say volumes.
	Can I just interrupt one second?
	Just to repeat the message, if you need to get on in the queue, you need to add me so I can DM you.
	That's it.
	I carry on.
	Great.
	I think that was everything, wasn't it, Nick?
	Yeah, that was it.
	I see the last thing blowing up.
	Yeah, no, I think, honestly, I don't think there's anything there I disagree with in the slightest.
	I completely agree.
	Yeah, and if anybody who wants to advance that message, the hashtag that's sort of been going out right now is tropes versus woman live.
	So let's see if we can get that trending and bring it.
	Just a lot of voices.
	They can't refuse everyone forever, can they?
	And if they do, what does that say about the courage of their convictions?
	Exactly.
	Great point.
	Good talking again, brother.
	Take care, man.
	Who's next, mate?
	I do believe, let me just highlight the name.
	It is either, I think it's Rach who's next, then Alan.
	Right, okay.
	You there, Rach.
	Hi.
	Hi, how's it going?
	I can hear you.
	I'm doing good.
	How are you?
	Really well, thanks.
	What do you want to talk about?
	Well, I was just listening to the tall black nerd talking about Not Your Shield and how they, you know, they really don't have an argument against it.
	You know, women come up and they speak and say, hey, look, you know, you don't speak for me, et cetera, et cetera.
	I've unfortunately been on Tumblr for years and they've been dealing with social justice warriors since.
	And an argument that they have presented me with is the idea of internalized misogyny.
	What did they say about it?
	Basically, they're saying that internalized misogyny is, for those who don't know, is the belief that since you live in a society that deems women as less than men, then you are inherently misogynist yourself, whether you're a woman or not.
	And the same goes for internalized racism, etc.
	And that's in and of itself really very sexist.
	It's unfalsifiable as well, isn't it?
	You can't ever not have internalized misogyny if you happen to agree with the power paradigm that they're talking against.
	You know, there's no way of fighting it.
	There's nothing, you can never be wrong.
	Yeah.
	And to me, what they're saying is, you either agree with them or you agree with us, which says women, well, to me, it's saying women aren't smart enough to make their own decisions.
	It's you agree with us or you agree with them.
	Yeah, you don't know any, you don't know as much as them because they've got lots of interesting buzzwords and have done their gender studies degrees.
	Oh, yeah.
	Everyone knows how well that holds up.
	They're brilliant.
	They're going to probably cause the end of Western civilization.
	Oh, yeah.
	And it's just, that's just a big annoyance and something that has not been brought up to them.
	It's just that, you know, that belief is sexist of itself.
	And it's, frankly, as me being a woman, I find it very insulting not to play the victim card here.
	No, no, it's an insulting thing that they're doing.
	It really is.
	Yeah.
	I just wanted to point that out.
	Just, you know, be aware when you use Not Your Shield, those arguments will pop up.
	The internalized misogyny, internalized racism, etc., etc.
	Yeah, that's a really good point.
	Really good for people to know as well.
	Thanks for making that point.
	It's really good.
	Yes, thank you for having everyone on here.
	This is a great idea.
	It was Cerberus' idea, not mine.
	Great idea, man.
	Augustine, man.
	Augustine.
	Cool.
	Thanks for coming on.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Okay, Alan, will you next?
	Hold on.
	Can you hear me?
	Tess?
	Tess?
	I can hear you.
	Okay, hey, thanks for having me on.
	Not a problem.
	All right, I just want to take a moment to explain critical thinking, logic, and when you get into these kind of debates with other individuals and kind of sidestep gamer gate right now and not your shield.
	If you're going to report, defend, or speak on Gamergate, make sure you're well informed.
	Take the time to write out your thoughts and don't give into emotions.
	Nothing is wrong with creating dialogue, but make wise choices with whom you engage unless you find yourself being tripped up by logical fallacies and bombarded in shotgun tactics, especially if you don't have a strong grasp of logic and recognizing those fallacies.
	Pro-Gamergators need to pay attention more to the counter-arguments and always be wary of those who share your biases and interests.
	Seek out controversy and not just those who you agree with, admire, or who support your biases.
	Don't let your points on transparency, journalistic integrity, ethics, and consumer bashing be diverted by smokescreens and red herrings.
	Right now, what's going on on those who are anti-Gamergate and who are putting in counter-arguments against, who are pro-Gamergate or perhaps neutral, are demagoguing.
	They're otherizing.
	They're demonizing.
	And what's, I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought there.
	Not at all.
	Carry on, please.
	And they're hate-mongering.
	We all know this, but this is what they do.
	And they don't have to be crude with their words.
	They can sound very polite and they can sound very intellectual and be very articulate.
	And you wouldn't know otherwise unless you can recognize these fallacies.
	So people really have to pay attention.
	Take a moment to recognize these things.
	If you have to take a minute and say, hey, you know, I'm really confused right now.
	Can I think about this?
	And if they try to hurry you, that's another fallacy.
	Don't let smoke screens get up.
	When you try to talk about things, don't let them go into misogyny.
	That's not what Gamergate's about.
	The moment they bring up misogyny, that is a smokescreen.
	Tell them to stop, get back on point, or you're done with the conversation.
	And also, when you're the speaker, you need to be able to prove your points.
	It's called a proof surrogate.
	And people like Brianna Wu, Anita Sarkeesian, and Zoe Quinn are going to throw these up all the time.
	Studies show.
	People say, well, you better be able to show me citation then.
	Or you're blowing smoke up my ass.
	This is a bunch of sunshine.
	And we're not idiots.
	Point in case.
	Anita Sarkeesian, viewing media that frames women as objects or sexual playthings profoundly impacts how real-life women are perceived and treated in the world around us.
	Her argument without regret, sexism in media causes sexism in life.
	That's a slippery slope fallacy.
	You better be able to explain A, B, C, D, E, and F, not A and then D.
	Yeah, totally agree.
	Seriously, guys, these are really, really good points.
	That's what I just wanted to say.
	When you go into these debates, please come prepared because these people are going to trip you up with fallacies.
	It's tactics, and they're going to do it on purpose.
	Yeah.
	And if they're not doing it on purpose, their logical reasoning needs to be pointed out.
	I mean, even I make fallacies, and I'm an undergraduate in college.
	I'm a military veteran of six years.
	I make mistakes.
	We all do.
	We're all fallible.
	It doesn't make you wrong.
	Yeah, it's...
	No, no, no, you're right.
	It's, you know, mistakes...
	An error is only a mistake when you fail to correct it.
	Yeah, and recognize this.
	Be like, hey, you know what?
	I was wrong.
	In the case with Pixie, you need a good moderator, Sargon.
	Your moderator needs to be able to recognize these faculty.
	Now, whoever was your moderator, I'm not bashing you, man.
	No.
	But that's just the reality of it.
	Your moderator has to recognize fallacies, and he has to be like, nope, I'm not going to let you go into a slippery self.
	I'm not going to let you be ad hominem.
	We didn't have a moderator.
	I thought she was there for a conversation like this.
	So I wasn't arguing with people.
	I was just talking to them.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	That's my assumption.
	No, no, don't worry.
	I actually, I actually, secretly, I would like to talk to her again because now I know exactly what I'm looking for.
	Don't touch the poet.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, like I want to show you.
	I'm sorry.
	Can I make this one last point?
	It's about demagoguery, and I'm going to show you how people can use demagoguery against you.
	This is Joseph Gobbles, a Nazi with a PhD, and this is what he says to his people about the Jews.
	When Mr. Bramsing or Mr. Not Rich, names of everyday Germans, feel pity for an old woman wearing the Jewish star, they should also remember that a distant nephew of this old woman by the name of Nathan Kaufman sits in New York and has prepared a plan by which all Germans under the age of 60 will be sterilized.
	They should recall that a son of her distant uncle is a warmonger named Burich or Margenthau or Untermeyer, who stands behind Mr. Roosevelt, driving him to war and that if they succeed, a fine but ignorant US soldier may one day shoot dead the only son of Mr. Bramsing or Mr. Not Rich, the Germans mentioned in the beginning.
	It will be for the benefit of the jury to which this old woman also belongs, no matter how fragile and pitiful she may seem.
	Does everyone see what he just did there?
	No.
	Otherized, he demonized and he hate monger.
	He's saying that these Jews are trying to create a virus that will sterilize all Germans.
	And he did it politely.
	He did it intellectually and he articulated.
	But the main points he did, he otherized, he demonized and he spread it hate mongery.
	And he didn't have to do it with cussing.
	He didn't have to use ad hominem and he didn't make any fallacies.
	Really, really good point.
	Thanks for that.
	Yeah, that's all I wanted to say.
	Thank you for having me on.
	No, no, seriously, thank you for coming on.
	That was really, really articulate.
	Thanks.
	Take care, man.
	You too.
	Who was next, mate?
	I think it was.
	Let me just check.
	It was.
	Oh, it's really tiny.
	There's so many names.
	Right.
	I think it was Callan next on the end.
	Okay.
	Callan, are you there?
	Hey, can you hear me?
	I can.
	How's it going?
	I'm good, thank you.
	Yes.
	Okay, so I'm Gamergate, obviously, and not your shield, which is quite annoying, coming from someone who's worked in government and business.
	When I was very young, I worked in a factory with 90% men.
	And this is the first time I've had to use my gender to get what I say taken seriously.
	Gender has never been an issue for me before.
	Oh, wow, that's a really great point.
	Yeah.
	The other thing that I was going to say was: obviously, there's a discussion in Gamergate to be had about whether or not there needs to be a conversation about how women are portrayed in games.
	And in my opinion, there doesn't really need to be that conversation.
	But I'm aware that opinions differ and that there are people who seem inclined to talk about it.
	So let's have a conversation.
	But what's going on right now is that it's not a conversation, it's a monologue.
	And it's a monologue that's being permitted to continue because of the sort of cronyism we're complaining about in Gamergate.
	It's not feasible that nobody in the gaming media or the mainstream media has an opposing opinion to Anita Sarkesian.
	So it's valid to ask why haven't we seen that anywhere in the media?
	And if your opinion can't stand up to any opposition or debate ever, then it's not worth the paper that your boyfriend writes it on.
	I think it's a very fine point.
	Very fine point.
	Another thing as well, I think thinking of the media, it's quite easy for us to feel a bit piled on at the moment.
	But when you think about the types of media that are running the different stories, the anti-Gamergate stories are being run on sites like Jazzabout and Cracked, and then the more neutral or pro-Gamergate articles are being run on sites like Forbes or Reason.
	And I think that's a very good thing.
	And I think that's a better thing than we perceive right now, because the lasting impression will be that the more the better sites then, the more accurate fact-based sites.
	Yeah, the more unbiased sites are covering us in positive or neutral light, and that's good.
	I personally can't wait for the next Reason instalment because the comments on that first Reason article about Gamergate were gold.
	There were a couple of SJWs in there attempting to debate, and they were obviously not used to debating with people who have a lot of experience with debating.
	And they just got ripped apart, and that was hilarious from a personal perspective.
	Well, I thoroughly recommend Reason.com then.
	Yeah.
	The other thing as well was just a point that I've thought about often in the past.
	These people who talk about games making us violent or making us sexist, they seem to truly believe that media has the power to brainwash people and that makes them scary, you know, because if they can be brainwashed into being violent or into being sexist by media, by their own logic, then we need to fear them because they will become whatever they watch or whatever they read.
	I think they have become whatever they've watched and read.
	I think they've become their gender studies degrees.
	I think they've become their communication studies degrees.
	And I'm sure that there are going to be subsets of that that literally deal in propaganda.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I'm absolutely certain of it.
	I studied propaganda a little bit and the amount of it that they use is already ridiculous and it's just going to get worse.
	I just had one more thing to say and that was about Depression Quest, which is probably going to be quite controversial if I was talking to a different audience, I guess.
	But Depression Quest, if it should be reviewed as anything, should be reviewed as fiction.
	And as a writer, I feel compelled to say that as fiction, it's a poorly written, self-indulgent shit.
	Oh, yes.
	That's it, really.
	Thanks for having me on.
	No problem.
	Thanks very much.
	No worries.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	Who's next, mate?
	One second.
	Maybe I'm getting the order as best as I can.
	I know that Outcast Cry.
	Sorry, I think he was waiting a bloody long time.
	I'm missing the key.
	Sorry if we mix the order up a little bit here, guys.
	It's the first time we've tried this.
	Cyborg, are you there?
	Outcast cyborg.
	Yeah, can you guys hear me?
	Loud and clear.
	All righty.
	I just want to make a few good points about what Callum said with the media, where they are becoming the very propaganda that they spew.
	And it's quite dangerous because many people are not informed.
	They don't look and read the actual thing.
	They just believe whatever they see on the T V and they just say, oh, well, I'm just going to believe that because I don't have time for this or everything this media source says is correct and they're infallible or just any, they believe their own propaganda.
	And then I worry that if this spews over into the mainstream media, those who are uninformed or are not part of the gaming culture will actually start to believe this bullshit.
	And then they will go along with it.
	And then, of course, cultural Marxism.
	I do worry that that will actually become a prominent figure in international affairs.
	I find them terrifying too, man, to be honest.
	I think we should be very diligent and inform people and show them the facts.
	If they start to make this a big deal, we should inform the public who is not aware of what's going on and make sure that we don't let the mainstream media derail the subject like these people have.
	Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
	And I just want to make a point here as well, if I may.
	I thoroughly recommend watching them on Twitter, the loud voices, the important people in their movement.
	And when they say something crazy, screencap it and send it to someone normal who has no idea what's going on as a laugh.
	You know, send it some like, man, look at this crazy shit.
	I found this on the internet.
	Isn't this some crazy shit?
	You know?
	Like with Jonathan McIntosh or Bob Chipman's progressive master race comments.
	If you haven't seen them, seriously ask someone.
	They're just hilarious.
	He literally sounds like he's talking about some sort of Untermensch gamergaters and ubermensch progressives.
	It's crazy.
	But yeah, sorry, that was just the point I wanted to make.
	Yeah, I mean, they're trying to basically do everything they can, regardless of their means, whether it's the most extreme or the most subtle, to come with a, to make perfect equality, which is not really possible.
	We're not capable of being perfectly equal.
	We can try, and we can try to make equality of opportunity, but I don't think we can achieve the equality of outcome like they are trying to reach.
	And I fear that they will destroy many of the things that we have in this world if they are able to convince people.
	And then we will essentially go back to a time when propaganda was the main driver and education wasn't really available to people.
	And that all those who speak out against it are essentially outcasted.
	And then you have everyone who's misinformed.
	I totally agree.
	I really, really, really think that that is happening.
	At least that's what they're trying to do.
	And again, it speaks to a larger cultural context.
	So it's worrying.
	But yeah.
	And that's all I basically had to say.
	Thanks very much for coming on.
	Thank you.
	I'm going to go for cyborg Dev there because I think I may have picked the wrong person in the wrong order.
	So just in case it was my mistake there.
	Sorry.
	Cyborg Dev, do you want to tell us?
	Yeah, actually, Julie was waiting before me.
	I actually know Judy.
	She's actually one of my patrons.
	So sorry, Julie, you're going to have to wait.
	Transparency, goddammit.
	Yeah, so what did you want to say?
	Yeah, well, I was the anonymous dev on with you the other day.
	I mainly wanted to address the link I saw Bob Chipman shared claiming that the ESA is anti-Gamergate.
	I don't know if you guys have talked about this yet.
	I haven't heard about that at all, actually.
	It's actually not true.
	He shared an article that was from one of if it was from Eurogamer, I believe, claiming that the ESA, which is the lobbying organization for companies, including Electronic Arts, who I mentioned at great length before, came out against Gamergate in light of the death threats and assault threats against women like Brianna Wu and Anita Sarkeesian.
	The Individual who was quoted, the woman spokesperson for the ESA is quoted as saying, There's no place in the video game community for threats, threats and violence, violence and harassment are wrong, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	There is no mention of Gamergate.
	And I tried finding where this article came from.
	And apparently it's from the politics and business section of GamesIndustry.biz, which is an affiliate of Rock, Paper, Shotgun and these other sites.
	It's written by their editor-in-chief, James Brightman.
	And it claims that she made these statements after they had emailed her asking about this.
	And it doesn't actually show any mention of Gamergate or Antique Gamergate.
	It doesn't make any mention of what the actual question to her was, because it could have been something as simple as, oh, well, what do you think about harassment in the gaming community?
	And now you have these affiliate sites of Rock, Paper, Shotgun, like Eurogamer and GamesIndustry.biz slanting it in the language of the article, but not in the language of the individual being quoted, as though it's anti-Gamergate.
	And then at the very end of that article on GamesIndustry.biz, it says, update.
	It's worth noting, the New York Times put a story about the attacks on feminist video game critics like Anita Sarkeesian on its front page.
	To me, as a critical thinker and reader, as well as someone who's in the industry and knows how much people in the industry itself do not like the anti-Gamergate side, that leads me to believe that, number one, this is obviously an affiliate of Rock, Paper, Shotgun, and this information is being slanted a certain way, and that number two, that they were the ones who reached out to the New York Times,
	and sort of letting you know with a little nudge of the elbow.
	And we know from past experience with these people that there is money under the table.
	And so when Bob Chipman comes out and says, we have the ESA's support, be wary of that and remember to vet your sources and to sort of look up where certain information is coming from and also how it's worded, because these articles are being written in an extremely misleading way.
	Furthermore, the same article writes, U.S. Video Game Trade Association speaks out against the growing number of harassment cases in the industry.
	And down below it says there's a link to the Brianna Wu situation in a section called Games Industry.
	And she writes, and I quote, there is literally a war in this industry on women.
	That's a direct Brianna Wu quote.
	The problem is, and like we got into this discussion of it last time, people don't necessarily understand how the industry works.
	But when people say the industry, or at least when we say the industry, from within the industry, we're talking about AAA games devs.
	The independent game scene, game development scene, is called independent game development because it is independent of the industry.
	So when you ask questions like, oh, what does this have to do with, or how does this impact women in the industry?
	The answer is it doesn't.
	This is a completely inclusive thing.
	And people like Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn, they weren't even working for companies from within the indie scene, you know, developers.
	When I hear game dev, I'm thinking an actual company, not an individual.
	So just to clarify then, so when they say the industry, what they're talking about is the indie dev scene.
	Well, that's what they say.
	But when people read these articles in places like the New York Times and the way it's worded, people don't understand that distinction.
	I don't recall if I said this before, but it's like your average person doesn't know the difference between something that a concept artist in the entertainment industry would do in a stick figure.
	And some freelancers experience that on a regular basis with clients.
	But the industry, it winds up generating talk about the industry at large when you have people like Software Association speaking up about this.
	It's not like we're hearing about Laurel Austin or Katya Barikina from Blizzard speaking up about their experiences.
	And it should also go mentioned that women actually have privileged access to getting into the industry, assuming that they have a professional portfolio for their work.
	If your work is of professional quality, if you're a woman, you actually get preferential job placement over a man with the same skills.
	And there are reasons for that.
	I'm actually going to be on a stream talking about this more tomorrow with Oliver Campbell.
	I don't want to spend too much time here because I know people are waiting.
	But that's something important that should be mentioned.
	And I think the language that these articles are using, the way, you know, and that sort of goes back to the earlier point about the ESA remarks.
	Look very closely at how things were worded because it will reveal a little bit more as to whether or not these sources are honorable.
	I'd also say, I don't know, Sargon, are you going to talk later about those articles they sent you?
	Honestly, mate, I think you might have to resend me them because I've been a bit swamped.
	Sorry, I have to do everything in sequential order, and I've got dozens of things to go through, and I don't know when I'm going to get the time to do any of them.
	And I know there's a lot of things.
	Long story short, for people listening, I sent Sargon a snapshot of something from Wikipedia listing articles that state that this is more specific to the anti-pornography movement, but applies to the portrayal of women in games and misogyny.
	And it found that over since the 70s, there's been a strong correlation between the rise in sort of explicit portrayals of women in media and a dramatic decrease in sex-related crime.
	The notion that, oh, well, the portrayal of women in games is going to lead to the rise of rapists around the corner is, you know, there are studies that show that this is ridiculous and that it's actually not violence.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And yeah, that's basically all I wanted to say.
	I'm going to be talking.
	Oh, there's one last thing just before I go.
	There are actually very good reasons for why a lot of game dev people in the AAAs aren't speaking up and aren't going public.
	And there are actually numerous different reasons.
	It's not like you can pin it on one thing.
	But if you guys have any more in-depth questions about that, because I don't want to take up Sargon's time too much, I will be on Oliver Campbell's stream.
	I think it's a whole group podcast.
	Great.
	Everyone should get on that.
	Definitely.
	I'm more of a fan of smaller affairs myself because I tend to talk.
	If you have any, if you want to do a one-on-one thing with me with more questions, I'd be more likely to.
	Yeah, what was your Twitter handle again?
	I don't use Twitter.
	I've been trying to contact through Skype.
	What was your name on Skype, if you don't mind?
	Have you got me on Skype?
	I don't want to say publicly.
	I'll notice.
	Sorry, Donald.
	Thanks, mate.
	Thanks.
	I'm the least organized person on earth.
	Sorry, I shouldn't have asked you to tell me your Twitter handle online.
	That was stupid.
	But thanks for coming on, man, and we will definitely talk in future.
	Sure.
	All right.
	Thanks for having me.
	No problem.
	Take care.
	Right.
	Well, I suppose it's Julie's time now, then.
	Go on.
	Hello, can you hear me?
	Hello.
	She has to say ultramarines aren't gay.
	She doesn't.
	Ultramarines are gay.
	Oh, you.
	More like ultramarines.
	Sorry, guys.
	Sorry.
	In jokes are only funny for the people having them.
	Julie, you're there.
	Can you actually hear me?
	Julie, are you going to help there?
	She's probably fallen asleep.
	Okay, now can you hear me?
	Stevenson Park has been waiting for quite some time.
	So I think if Julie isn't ready, then maybe we should go to him for now.
	Her mic's working.
	Maybe you can't hear.
	Oh.
	Is it?
	I can't hear it.
	Can you hear me now?
	Oh.
	Sorry, Jamie.
	I don't know what's going on.
	She can hear.
	No, we can't hear you because you haven't said Ultramarin's a bass yet.
	For those people who don't play Warhammer 40,000, ultramarines are the gayest Space Marine chat.
	For all of you that don't know anything about Warhammer 40,000, what the fuck's wrong with you?
	Right, it's weird how everyone else can hear it.
	Hang on, I'm just going to see if I can mess with the settings.
	Have you muted?
	No, but okay, try talking now, Julie.
	Yeah, can you hear me now?
	Yes, I can, finally.
	How's it going?
	Yeah, it's pretty good.
	So I actually wanted to talk about a couple of things here.
	I actually noticed that maybe Gamergate isn't out in major news outlet, at least not in the Anglosphere, but it's definitely out in the international scene, such as actually large newspapers in France, like mainstream newspapers, and even in Germany, are also publishing about Gamergate and the campaign of harassment, as we all know it's getting cold.
	Oh, well, the pro-social justice warrior reporting.
	Yeah.
	And the thing is that it's being reported in large news outlets like Lumonde or Der Spiegel in Germany.
	And that's like, I guess it's like the Daily Mail in the UK or something.
	I don't know.
	Der Spiegel had quite a good reputation.
	Yes, exactly.
	And that's also the same thing with Le Monde.
	Le Monde is the most read newspaper in France.
	And they have a, you know, they have a reputation for neutrality.
	And then a couple of days ago, I actually saw an article that was saying that Gamergate is a campaign of harassment against Zoe Quinn.
	My God, really?
	And so I actually ended up having relatives, French relatives, actually talking to me about it and asking me, so I read about this thing in the newspaper in the morning, in the Sunday morning newspaper, and I was just wondering, like I saw you talk about this, so I'm just wondering what is this all about?
	They say that it's about misogyny, but clearly you don't seem to be a self-hating woman.
	So can you please explain this to me?
	Yes, I actually had my grandfather ask me this.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Jesus Christ.
	So that's why it's I'm thinking that's a huge problem.
	At least it's going to be a huge problem, especially in countries in which we don't really talk about Gamergate or there's you know there's no there's not enough pro Gamergate blogs or pages or anything.
	So people just in certain countries like for instance France, Germany, they ended up with having only one view of the story.
	Well in the Anglosphere is actually more likely for them to have both views because there's still blogs and pages and certain news outlets that actually talk about Gamergate in a positive way.
	Well I am very disappointed in Der Spiegel.
	I'm very shocked actually.
	I mean is it is it are they hit pieces?
	Are they slanderous or are they just misinformed?
	Not only misinformed but they do say that it they do say that Gamergate is a camp it's it's a hate campaign of harassment, doxing, threatening against women in the industry.
	Right, so it's actually a smear piece.
	Yes, these are actually smear pieces and I actually see I I heard that Der Spiegel actually published three of those on the on the on the whole con on the whole Gamergate thing.
	I just happened to just fall on two of them but another person also said there was a third one.
	I didn't verify that yet.
	Christ.
	Well if I I would recommend people finding links to these articles and then tweeting them at Der Spiegel and the French one asking what the hell?
	How could you do this?
	This is so misinformed and biased that it ruins your reputation.
	It does because these newspapers are seen as politically neutral in Europe.
	They're seen as centrist sort of quite neutral and quality reporting.
	Yeah, that's why I'm shocked.
	I keep up with the sort of things that Der Spiegel especially do because they're known for being almost like against the system sometimes when it's inconvenient for the system.
	They'll do it and that shocks me.
	Yeah, guys, I mean don't don't harass individuals but find their like company Twitter account and just just send them a bunch of tweets you know Jesus Der Spiegel what's going on and be like Reuters coming out against it you know Jesus.
	Sorry I'm quite shocked by that.
	I guess I am turning into a journalist.
	I think it's personally quite shocking.
	I mean you know Gamergate was barely a thing on Twitter when I actually saw an article about it on the Le Monde and I've I found that really shocking because a slanderous article obviously.
	You know it was it was not even out of the quincy phase.
	I mean we weren't out of the phase and they were already running an article about that.
	So some social justice warrior works there and has wrangled editors would be like, well yeah yeah okay you cover that, you know, you cover that, you cover that without really looking into it too much themselves.
	So I can see them bullshitting it and getting it into the papers.
	That's the worst thing with most of the journalism nowadays is that they just see somebody else posting something about it and they're just gonna you know just gonna take that content and just spew it up again.
	Just exactly the same idea.
	It's like they keep copying each other off.
	Like they don't even bother to look beyond whatever's happening.
	They just keep you know they don't do their job, they don't research.
	Most of them, they just copy paste.
	Well almost.
	They may as well, haven't they?
	They may as well.
	Yeah, that's that thanks for telling us all that.
	I mean that's damn important information.
	I had no idea.
	Yeah, that's so that's pretty much almost what I wanted to say.
	And well I also wanted to say, you know, concerning not your shields I you know, I've never as a woman, I've never received as much vitriol hate than I did now.
	Really?
	Yes, this is the first time people are genuinely targeting me because I happen to be a woman that did not fit their narrative.
	They are everything they claim that we are, aren't they?
	Yes, exactly.
	Like they last time, I mean, the first time around, they sent me my address, like they said that we have your address, and then they wrote it.
	The second time around, they say that it's hanging around.
	And the only thing I ever did was to post in favor of Gamergate.
	That's it.
	And I know a lot of other women also having exactly the same problem where they're getting targeted.
	You know, like these so-called minorities they claim to defend are getting actively targeted because they don't fit the narrative.
	Contact the paper, dude.
	Seriously, contact the paper.
	You know, it's the way a totalitarian state would think.
	Yeah.
	The way they act.
	It's like Stalin 1934 again.
	Yeah.
	It's complete repression, isn't it?
	It's crazy.
	Okay.
	We need to move on, unfortunately.
	Sorry.
	No problem.
	Thanks for coming on, Dave.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	Okay, who's next?
	I'm not sure if it's Stevenson, Samuel, or Lemming.
	It's one of those three.
	If they want to have a fight, you know, I'll just get away with Steve.
	I'll play to you, but it was Steve.
	It was Steve.
	Okay, Steve.
	Stevenson, do you want to can you hear me?
	I can.
	How's it going?
	A little tired.
	Yeah, I was just going to just make a quick comment.
	I'm a little bit on a neutral side, I guess you could say, but of course I'm always going to lean towards the Gamergate side just because of the shit I see on the other side, which is pathetic.
	But I guess the one thing I don't like seeing from at least the Gamergate side would be the dogpiling.
	I mean, I know everyone wants a certain YouTuber or journalist to be on our side and everything, and I do too, but I don't think you should force it out of them.
	Just if they want to stay back, stay away from it, let them stay away.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	I think with companies it's different because they're companies and they have consumers and customers.
	News outlets, the same thing.
	But individuals, I tried to ask people not to do that myself as well.
	Because I did talk with a certain journalist through DMs, and I guess he said he pretty much wanted to stay away from it just because he saw the crap going on.
	But he was right about to jump in when the whole Brianna Wu thing happened.
	Just because I guess he mentioned that he was friends with her or whatever.
	And the first thing I told him was, don't get involved.
	Just stay out of it, do not get involved because, you know, it's, and I told them, something you don't know is that both sides are getting doxxed, you know.
	It's just not her getting threats.
	And I had to mention that to him.
	And he pretty much said, okay, that's the reason why I'm staying out because I don't want to get involved in this.
	But I'm just glad normally dogpiled him.
	He made one comment just saying that there's other writers out there who could write about it.
	There's some good voices out there.
	If he wants to say anything, he'll just say it in Twitter, pretty much.
	Yeah, I think that's a really great point.
	What I tried to stress is that basically when I'm on Twitter and I see someone, just any individual, it doesn't matter who they are sort of thing, having a conversation with someone about Gamergate or making statements about Gamergate.
	If someone has already followed it up, then I'm quite confident that they know what they're doing and they can fight for the Gamergate cause because that's what they obviously know what points they want to make.
	And so they've got on it.
	So you can just move on to the next one.
	I say have faith in the other Gamer Gators, man.
	You know, everyone, you know, because everyone's, look at the stream.
	Everyone's got such good damn points, you know?
	So I think, yeah, we don't need to dogpile because any individual seems to be capable of destroying all of their arguments.
	Yeah.
	So yeah.
	That's funny.
	I'm just reading someone saying friends with literally Wu.
	Yes.
	The funny thing is I didn't know anything about her until this whole doxing thing happened.
	Then someone posted a screenshot of her just pretty much talking shit to Stephanie Ann.
	I think she's the one who created Good Gamers.
	And I was like, no, she's the one who started goodgamers.us.
	And I remember reading that, I was like, oh, yeah, now I remember her.
	I don't know what the fuck her problem was at the time.
	She's just talking a lot of shit to her just for starting a website, an alternate website, which I don't know why people would just attack her just because she wanted to start an alternate website for other people to go to, since all these other sites are pure shit.
	Isn't that what the free market's about?
	Yes.
	I mean, I'm no economist, so you know.
	But yeah, thanks for making the point, man.
	Thanks.
	And one last thing is who actually does the GitHub stuff?
	I don't know.
	I don't know much about GitHub.
	Or whatever, whoever made that long document, I guess.
	Someone decided to post the amount of money I donated to the Financial Capitalist for some reason.
	I was like, oh, shh.
	$750.
	Hey, that's good.
	That's the generous man.
	That's nothing to be ashamed of.
	That's something to be pointed out.
	No, it's just funny because I was trying to rush it pretty much because it was close to hitting their goal.
	And I was like, fuck it.
	Just hit their mark and I'll be done with it.
	I forgot to hit the anonymous button and then I just went on with it.
	Then I looked at the little, I guess it's good now.
	And it was like, oh, hero of video.
	And I was like, what the fuck?
	That's the thing.
	You've got to put your money where your mouth is.
	If you've got the means, then, you know.
	I'm feeling broke now, but.
	Well, yeah.
	8750 is a heroic effort, man.
	I tell you, I wish I could donate 750 to anything.
	Okay, some of the people are looking bored on the camera.
	Sorry, yeah.
	Thanks for making the point.
	I'm done, though.
	Thanks.
	Cool.
	Take an extra.
	You too.
	I think the next one was Samuel, wasn't it?
	Samuel Mattcalft.
	Yeah.
	Hi, Samuel.
	You're there.
	Hi.
	Sorry about the late mate.
	How's it going?
	That was funny.
	Yeah, it's good.
	I'm in Britain.
	I'm in Scottish, so at the same time.
	What do you do at 4 in the morning, man?
	You maniac.
	Alien isolation, and I can't get any sleep.
	How is it?
	No, no, we can't go into it.
	Sorry.
	What did you want to say, man?
	What did you want to say?
	Well, this thing happened where, well, there was a few things I wanted to say, but basically, I decided to have this conversation with Pixie Janney.
	And Oh, Jesus.
	Why did you touch the poo?
	I intentionally went there because I'm like, I know it's going to end in a certain way.
	And I just want to see if I can continue keeping logical.
	And I kept on trying to tell her, like, okay, because I think she for some reason thinks that she's neutral, even though she's not.
	I kept on trying to show her that via a mission of the subjects of Gamergate and only focusing on like three people in Gamergate, she is effectively contributing to anti-Gamergate.
	And eventually she just told me to go fuck off.
	Are you saying you out-trolled Pixie Jenny?
	Yeah.
	I think you might actually be the hero that Gamergate needs.
	I didn't realize it before.
	And I wasn't aware that I was on block.
	And then immediately afterwards, just like after I'm like a look on block, I'm like, oh, there I am.
	Oh, I can't even get on that for shit.
	Well, I applaud you, Samuel.
	That's fucking amazing.
	But yeah, anyway, thanks, man.
	Is there anything else just that interest?
	Yeah, there was basically the, you know, the whole BBC World News crap.
	Yeah, I was looking at it, and, you know, it's amazing how the fallacy was put in place.
	I was listening to this guy, you know, and, you know, I can't remember the names, but so the guy says about how funding people's Patreons is conflict of interest.
	And then the woman analogizes that to a theater ticket.
	And I was like, you know, I don't even see where the...
	Maybe if you consistently enjoyed their work and it didn't matter, you know, if they were a musician, say, and you just wanted to get...
	I mean, the thing is, it's not the worst thing.
	I mean, I'm not saying this because I have a Patreon.
	I'm saying this because, you know, it's generally not the worst thing if they wanted to do that, because it is like a monthly stipend.
	But the problem is it's too much.
	You know, they all do it all the time.
	And it is the genuine conflicts of interest that is a problem.
	You know, I don't care if Rami Ismaili or whatever, the Van Beer guy, gives some stupid San Francisco art student who produces hand-drawn comics that are crap or something.
	I don't care if he gives her $5 a month to keep producing comics.
	I really don't.
	That's not a problem.
	Because neither side's profiting there.
	Well, they are, obviously, but you know what I mean?
	There's no conflict of interest.
	He happens to like that comic.
	He has money.
	She needs money.
	He wants to do his part to keep her making those comics.
	Great.
	That's great.
	But the Zoe Quinn thing, yeah, no.
	Way too far.
	Way too far.
	I was using, I like to make this kind of, I don't know, this thing that I've got with a couple of friends of mine.
	We call it the weaponized autism.
	That's it.
	I tell you, I've got to stop.
	I personally can't do that because someone with autism always goes, look, man, I've got autism, and I'm not one of these dicks.
	And I'm like, man, that sucks because I've just fucking lumped you guys in.
	You're in with those dicks.
	And you're obviously not one of those dicks because you're talking to me like a person, you know.
	So I feel bad when I use it.
	It's a funny word because they've made it a funny word.
	But people actually have autism.
	It's not a fucking funny word.
	And it's just like, oh, damn it.
	It would be so funny if it didn't hurt people on our side.
	You know what I mean?
	The thing is, the funny thing about having autism is you inherently don't understand.
	So you just kind of like, why are people getting offended?
	Anyway, thanks for coming on.
	I appreciate it.
	All right.
	Did enjoy hearing about Pixie Jenny seeing her come up and take care, man.
	Who was next, mate?
	It was Lemming, finally.
	She might have died of boredom.
	Lemming, I'm really sorry.
	I regularly sit on eight-hour train rides.
	It'd be hard to bore me to death, but I don't know if I can follow that up.
	I don't know if I can.
	I don't think anyone can.
	I don't think you need to.
	No, I think he needs to be my internet boyfriend.
	I put that in the chat.
	Do you want to be my internet boyfriend, Sam?
	I don't know.
	Are you just smiling?
	I really want Sam to be my internet boyfriend, actually.
	We can fight.
	I go to the gym.
	I'm like 5'2 and weigh 100 pounds.
	You're gonna win.
	No, no, I'd lose that.
	I'd lose that.
	Wait, I probably win because, well, you're a guy, and that would be misogynist of you to fight me.
	What did you want to say?
	Well, I am at, I'm currently a gaming student at a very well-known gaming school in America, somewhere very close to where Zo Quinn thing is.
	I don't know her lair is located.
	And I just kind of want to just give you guys this, like, it is the atmosphere up here, like, the other guys that I live with, like, I literally live in a house with about 20 gamer guys whose futures this Gamergate is affecting.
	And they are too scared to talk about it.
	Like, because Zoquin is so close, because, you know, just people that agree with her are literally in this school.
	People that, you know, say, like, I specifically remember one of my friends who is a close friend, that is how close I am to Zoe Quinn.
	Literally, one degree of separation.
	He knows her, and he became not my friend because I told him I don't really agree with her or anti-Gamergate.
	And he called me a misogynist.
	Because I guess my boobs and vagina are fake.
	And you just hate them.
	They're not fake.
	You just hate them.
	And yourself.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And every other one.
	So you've got soggy knees.
	Yeah, I got, you gave me my soggy knees.
	I'm sorry to hear it.
	Yeah, it's okay.
	I've got a fan on them right now.
	Anyways.
	What's your Twitter handle?
	Because I guess maybe some people might want to talk to you about stuff.
	I'm at Lemmingbot, just like lemming the little things that jump off cliffs and bot like robot.
	It's just, I am on here because, number one, I don't like being misrepresented as, you know, as a poor, pitiful woman that can't, that just can't do it.
	That has to, you know, have other people defend her and have a group of feminists that want equality, defend me, because I don't need that.
	None of the other girls here need that.
	To be totally honest, I'm going to stick with my gamer guys because I was actually stalked for a time.
	And I had pretty much a personal army following me around, all white male gamers.
	Were they good guys, basically?
	They were wonderful.
	Like these guys, you know, when I was younger, I was bullied by a lot of guys that weren't gamers.
	And as soon as I started interacting with the gaming culture, you know, about halfway through high school, I immediately found my place.
	Like, I was never bullied again.
	And since gaming has given that to me, I feel like I have to give that back by risking myself, risking perhaps even my future by speaking out against this to defend these people and this culture that has done so much for me.
	Thanks.
	I think that everyone really, really appreciates it.
	I really do.
	Noble, I appreciate both of you guys being articulate, being kind of like the face of Gamergate, being polite and never losing your cool, really.
	Ah, shit, I lose my cool all the time.
	Well, it is a controlled meltdown, like a controlled explosion.
	That's true.
	You detonate your anger by robot.
	Basically, I do kind of sometimes.
	But thanks for coming on.
	I think everyone really appreciates you sharing all this.
	Yeah, well, I appreciate what you guys do.
	Just a little bit of positivity.
	Everybody on here is beautiful, and don't stop standing up for what you believe in.
	Thanks.
	Thank you very much.
	Just before we go.
	I say yes.
	Thanks.
	Oh, look at that.
	Take it.
	Take it, Sargon.
	He's my boyfriend.
	Okay, I can see the field.
	You've won this one.
	You know Twitter handle, man, so you know, speak to you both there.
	All right.
	I'll see you guys later.
	I hope that the rest of the stream goes well.
	I'm certainly going to be watching.
	Take care.
	See you, Samuel, you dog.
	Sorry, who was next?
	Who were we missing?
	Right, we're literally into I don't know what the hell's going on.
	I think Ian's been there for a while, so Ian, are you there?
	I'm just going to go in order of people in the chat.
	Sorry, guys, I don't know what I'll try and sort it out.
	I mean, there was a massive batch of people, so Ian, do you want to go if you want?
	And do you mind fielding this one?
	I need to get to the toilet and get another one.
	Yeah, no problem.
	I don't know if you can hear me.
	Are you there, man?
	Is Ian out there?
	I can hear you.
	Ian's there.
	It's kind of dark.
	Can you hear me now?
	if you guys are falling asleep.
	Okay.
	No?
	Okay.
	I'm just going to move over to Richard.
	If you're there, Richard, because I can see you're alive.
	Oh, hello, can you hear me now?
	Can you hear me?
	Hello.
	Oh, wait.
	Okay.
	All right, okay.
	I can see both of you are alive, but nobody's saying anything.
	I can't hear Ian.
	I don't know what's going on.
	Can you hear me?
	That's really strange.
	Can you hear me?
	I'm just going to check.
	Can you hear me?
	No, you can't.
	I don't know if Sargon's done anything because he has the main control at the moment.
	Oh, well, this is depressing.
	Well, if you guys I don't know if YouTube can hear as well.
	I'm just going to check it out.
	Can anyone be hurt or what?
	Yeah, okay, I can look at the chat.
	That's great.
	I can't do anything about it if I can't hear them.
	That's cool.
	Everyone's been really good so far with like waiting, so um and being in an orderly queue.
	Really do appreciate that.
	Um I don't know if it's to do with Sargon's connection.
	Everyone can just hang fire.
	I'm sorry about the technical delays or issues.
	Yeah, I can read the chat.
	Thank you.
	I love this.
	OK. OK.
	Sargon, are you there?
	Oh, that's good, Ian.
	Sargon, you mean Sargon?
	Ooh, snap, let me just try something out.
	Can you try talking now?
	Hello?
	Hi.
	I can hear him.
	I still can't hear it and I'm watching it live.
	Hello?
	Hi, I'm going to have a mic off.
	Okay.
	This is weird.
	I can hear the YouTube.
	What is he saying?
	Other people can hear me?
	Yep.
	Apparently.
	don't mind me being who what's going on guys I Sargon, it all went to hell.
	I can't hear them.
	Now I can hear them.
	Sargon, I think you were transmitting or something over them.
	Have you got access to the control panel?
	No.
	No, I couldn't hear any of it.
	Okay.
	For some reason, a bunch of them in the control panel.
	Okay, Ian's um up, I think.
	Hello?
	Hello?
	How's it going?
	Sargon!
	Hello.
	Hi.
	How's it going?
	Good.
	What did you want to say?
	Um, I think they covered most of the other things.
	I guess I'm not so much a um optimistic when it comes to uh Gamergate as a, you know, kind of like as we've seen with like major newscasters just running smear campaigns, and that's what it's really been from the start.
	Ever since Anita popped in, it was smears against games.
	And I honestly have to say it's not so much a war, but you know, it's a really hard battle to you know, try to get people to get past the smear campaigns to actually look into it.
	You know?
	Yeah, it's a war of attrition at this point, I'm afraid, guys.
	We're just gonna have to keep finding a good fight because they can't lie forever.
	They're too bad at it.
	They're magnificent in the short run, and then they're terrible in the long run.
	So just got to stick with it.
	And I know this will probably get me a lot of hate, but I honestly think between Zoe, Anita, and what's her name, Brana Wu, there seems to be this really weird competition.
	I don't want to put it like that, but it really seems like this weird competition to see who's the most harassed because I don't know if any of you follow Zoe, but I sometimes read up on her tweets and Alex's tweets, and it seems that apparently on Han, there was a doxing of her or just listing public information.
	And this was just after the Anita Sarkeesian Utah death threat or massacre.
	So I don't know really what's going on between them, but for some reason, I just suspect that they are either competing against each other for this attention or really using it as a kind of stepping stone to get themselves more popularity and doing it together.
	Smear Gamergate.
	And that's the only thing, I guess, the one trick they keep pulling out is just running smear campaigns.
	It's repeated smear campaigns.
	Like everything that is anti-Gamergate is usually an isolated insulin or tweet.
	And it's just a smear campaign for another couple hundred words.
	Yeah, I think that's the problem that they're going to run into, though, is that people will start just seeing it as a smear campaign.
	You can't smear people forever until people start asking you why you're so one-sided in what you're doing.
	I think.
	I hope so, anyway.
	Sorry for rambling.
	That's okay.
	Is there anything else?
	Last thing I want to say is this was at Wendy's off my meeting listening to Thunderfoot's video about Anita's massacre.
	Oh, yeah, I haven't seen that yet.
	It's a good watch.
	I think he outdid himself, and he's probably going to get banned from Twitter again.
	He is the master of the entire fight against progressivism at this point, isn't he?
	Right.
	I think I don't mean to say it quite like that.
	It's extremists that are probably.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	I honestly just have to say it's very.
	I feel like they're starting to back themselves into a wall because let's say Anita herself or her army sent that threat to her or whatever.
	It was just someone she knew.
	If that's the case, you know, I believe you, FBI is very thorough when it comes to these kinds of things with tracking down threats online, even if it's proxied as much as you can be or anonymous as much as you want.
	They're really going to a back corner.
	Like, as for Zoe, she's not trying to, you know, making up that whole story about Wizard Chan harassing her when it was just this one user.
	And it just, to me, it just seems just so suspicious that they are all trying to play the victim, and that's the only card they really have.
	Yeah, literally, is there any weapon?
	Yeah.
	They don't have any facts, logical reasons.
	Well, it's like, I feel like gaming has always been the natural enemy of feminism in that kind of sense.
	Because feminism has always like on Tumblr Bogs with the amazing atheists.
	I watched some of them, and they've, in a couple of them, there was a number of feminists that blamed, you know, misogyny, you know, as a part of gaming.
	I just didn't know the extent that it was already in gaming, that we had a lot of radicals.
	That's all I wanted to say is that there seems to be something going on with these threats that they're just happening too soon.
	They really are.
	I'm not, I mean, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
	I can't say that it is, but it wouldn't shock me if that were the case.
	Thanks a lot for coming on, man.
	All right, you're welcome.
	Thanks.
	We're just going to keep it a bit brief now.
	And those are the last kind of entries that I've just added to the chat that sent the message.
	It's half four in the morning here, so it's getting a bit late, I'm afraid.
	But I'm sure we can do another one of these in the future if everyone's interested.
	But we'll finish with the people who are in here already.
	So who is next, mate?
	I think by Eric was the next one, I think.
	Eric Julin, you there, mate?
	Hello.
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	Ah, yeah, hello.
	I think the blue guy who was with J knows wasn't he next?
	Yeah.
	Oh, well, you're talking now.
	We'll sorry.
	Hi.
	Sorry about any background noise.
	It's probably the last episode or something.
	But I just thought you might want to hear what Franz Meura, not Myra, has to say about this.
	Yeah, I do.
	I'm not bothering you.
	I'm afraid, sorry.
	Yeah, well, I'm Finnish, so I know exactly how it's performing.
	Thanks for letting everyone know, because I'm terrible.
	Yeah, it doesn't matter.
	I understand it.
	It's a weird letter.
	It doesn't look like it.
	It looks like an A, but it's not.
	Anyway.
	So it kind of talks.
	This article is kind of written in a weird way, but I'm translating this off the cuff, so forgive me, but female game developers and the press are scheming to take away their gaming culture and replace it with feminist game development.
	Feminist game researchers have been supporting this wrong development.
	So essentially, he's saying that that's what we think, apparently.
	Later here.
	Let's see.
	I think there's something else here, too.
	Oh yeah, and apparently he thinks it's a vocal minority, obviously.
	Of course.
	Yeah.
	Also, there was this other thing I just thought the article's name was kind of funny.
	It was the fancy the prophetic How do I translate this?
	The prophetic mother's tit suckers, so people who suck their mother's tits apparently Gamergate Mommy's voice strike again this time threatening with school shootings.
	Yay.
	Yeah, that's professional, completely.
	Totally.
	Thank checked, I can tell.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Also, another scare sort of slightly scary thing that happened to me.
	Well, yesterday for me.
	Yeah, yes, we did.
	Anyway, um, there was, um, I got a follow and I was like, what?
	Who the hell is this?
	And I check it, and it's like the guy was like a fucking forensics psychologist or something.
	So I was like, what?
	And I look at his feed and he's like, he's tweeting about Gamergate and saying like, these homicidal people, blah, blah, blah.
	I'm like, oh, oh shit.
	I just blocked the guy.
	I wasn't sure what to do, but like.
	I think screencap what he's saying and then tweet it.
	Yeah, I screencapped it.
	I have it on like Twitter.
	Yeah, tweet that shit on like hashtag, man, because I did, but I sort of did it kind of hastily, so I think we got lost in the ether, but whatever.
	Yeah, but it's out there, that's the thing.
	If you needed to find it, you probably could, right?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's out there.
	Yeah, cool.
	I didn't have anything to screen cap it with at the time, but I got my laptop.
	Thanks a lot for letting us know, man, because that's some crazy shit.
	Yeah, that was like, oh, oh, well, I'm in Finland, so I'm probably safe, but yeah.
	Jeez.
	It's quite close to Sweden, I don't know.
	Well, yeah, Sweden get Sweden does influence a lot of shit here, and it's fucking crazy.
	I hate that shit.
	Yeah, I can bet.
	Anyway, thanks a lot for coming on, man.
	Yeah, no problem.
	Cool.
	Take care.
	Yeah, see you.
	Who's next?
	People that have been long in the channel, I think.
	I'll just go down.
	Janice, are you there?
	You're very quiet.
	Hang on, I'll try and turn you up a bit.
	Are you there?
	Hello?
	Hello, I can hear you.
	I hope everyone else can.
	Okay, that's all right.
	Well, hey.
	Something just went pink.
	A couple of things.
	First of all, Ber Merida, I didn't actually mean to say you've got to put me on immediately.
	I just meant to say I'm standing bay.
	Just in case that was a bit aggressive of me.
	It wasn't a chance to be.
	Oh, don't worry.
	I've had all sorts of shit in the chat.
	Then Shargon, I fucking love you.
	In case you're still watching, Dan, hello.
	And then what I'm actually here for.
	First of all, have you noticed the thing about Cromacho on Twitter earlier today?
	Oh, well, yeah, I think it was.
	I follow the guy.
	He was a subscriber of mine a while ago, I think, and ended up following him when I first joined Twitter.
	What what's happened?
	I don't know what's happened.
	Well, he made a few tweets and basically it sounded like I don't want to live like this anymore, buy and then silence.
	And it was quite ambiguous, really, and wasn't entirely certain if that was actually just a real script from Twitter or a real script from life, you know.
	And I'm sure it's just a rage quit from Twitter.
	That is indeed it was, but that is not the point.
	The point is that because of the ambiguity, basically for about half an hour, all that came down, my fear here on the tweet deck was could someone please check up on him because all of Gamergate basically was sincerely concerned about the guy and that is extraordinarily heartwarming.
	That's good.
	That's really nice to hear.
	I didn't know any of that happened.
	Yeah, I like the guy.
	I favorite a lot of his tweets because I agree with what he's saying.
	He seems like a special logo, right?
	Yeah, he seems like a really sound guy.
	I don't I've never actually had a proper conversation with him, but he seems really nice and he knows his stuff.
	I see him debating with them and he never gets anywhere, but that's because he's using good arguments.
	Which is their hallmark.
	I mean God, that's awful, isn't it?
	But that's so true.
	Basically in the end his wife made a tweet that yeah I'm here, he's alright, he's safe and sound.
	He's just pissed off probably.
	Yeah it looks like it.
	Yeah yeah well I hope he comes back because I like the guy.
	And then one other thing and then I'm basically gone.
	I used to work at a place I'm not gonna name it but it was Parcel Fools and wage gap did exist there.
	The pay was shit but it was equal for everyone which is actually bullshit because any way you put it the men did maybe twice as much work as the women for exactly the same money because of the way the task was split.
	So this is opportunity not this is not equality of opportunity is equality of outcome.
	Personally I think that's bollocks but at the same time because the the peers already shied I really can't bring myself to complain about it and I don't work that there anymore anyway.
	Yeah.
	Well thanks for thanks for pointing that out.
	Have a good one mate.
	Take care.
	Thanks very much man.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	Who's next?
	We'll just go down the list.
	Diogo C, are you there mate?
	Hello.
	Hi I'm here.
	How's it going?
	Hi Sagun.
	Hi everyone.
	Well I just want to keep this short as possible about the Brazilian game journalist that's been accused of sending those threats against Sarkeesian.
	The guy is not a game journalist.
	He had a blog I think that was just celebrity gossip.
	Which was kind of funny because when I went in the first post I saw was about the Fappening and I was expecting Gamergate to be blamed for that as well.
	Yeah.
	I had Jen for Lawrence's pictures there.
	I didn't see it.
	But just saying there's a complete blackout in the Brazilian gaming media.
	There's no mention of this.
	I found one article which was basically a copy paste from another like five things you need to know about Gamergate and it was just the basic slandering.
	So there's a blackout.
	I suspect that's intentional because Brazilians do not like any kind of censorship.
	Censorship is a really bad word for here because we lived under a military regime where everything that didn't please the government was called subversive and people were exiled and tortured and killed because of this.
	So censorship is really is really a bad word here.
	Second thing, I see a lot of people on the Gamergate being accused of being against inclusion in games.
	And I don't think that's the case for most people, but I suspect that this whole thing we see, because when you have a minority in your game, right, you're bound to receive all sorts of criticism.
	If it is represented, it's not about being represented, but being represented in the right way.
	And what is seen as the right way does not necessarily make for a good story, because what makes a good story good is conflict, right?
	Like the Far Cry, was it?
	The blonde-haired sort of Anderson Cooper lookalike.
	Exactly. That's exactly the kind of...
	Looks amazing.
	I'm a big fan of sort of not, I wouldn't say tropes, but characters.
	Just the image oozes character.
	You have to know more.
	You know what I mean?
	It's amazing.
	I can't believe they were criticizing it.
	It's one of the best portrayals of any sort of alternative lifestyle that I've ever seen.
	I think it's amazing.
	Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
	I was just so impressed by it.
	Yeah.
	Well, I suspect that this was intentional in a way.
	That the idea for them was to shut down any representation they seen and then come to save the day.
	Now we're going to show you how to properly do things.
	Basically, shaming and pastoring developers to not even try so they can come and save the day and draw the line in the sand and you're there and I'm here.
	This whole sort of thing.
	And I guess that's pretty much it.
	If we have the time, I'd like to tell a personal story.
	Go ahead.
	I was part of a guild that we for a time kind of was struggling with the decision of basically banning women from joining.
	And I was against it and I conducted a kind of an experiment.
	As soon as a woman would enter the guild, I said people, leave her alone.
	Let her find her own place in the guild.
	Let her grow and basically earn her space.
	Don't go adding her on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter.
	And those who really have that kind of problematic behavior wanting attention will leave.
	And those who don't will just stay and it worked wonders.
	I mean, there are issues that need to be approached and dealt with, but not from a holier-than-down perspective.
	We have to go and see the cases and kind of have this conciliatory attitude towards these things and not turn everything into a gender war.
	I agree.
	Meritocracy.
	Pretty much.
	That's all we want.
	That's all.
	That's all I think anyone wants, isn't it, really?
	A fair shot.
	If they can earn it, then give them it.
	Sorry, Con.
	One of the things that was on that first Brianna Woods video that kind of sent shivers down my spine was when she said that the solution for the inequality of the women on the tech industry, when she was going on about, it was quite brief, but it really caught my attention when she said that the hiring practices of the tech industry are unfair towards women.
	And I would very much like for her to elaborate more on that because I'll gladly add that to my list of complaints.
	Because if that's really the case, then it's something that we should look into it.
	But when she said that the solution had to come top-down, what does she mean?
	And I know exactly what she means.
	It's basically firehops.
	Yeah, that's the top-down solution.
	That's what a top-down solution is.
	It's basically enforced quotas, a gender quota or racial quotas, not in case of scholarships.
	I think scholarships are great because you still have to work for it.
	A scholarship is just an opportunity.
	But we're actually talking about hiring quotas.
	That's a whole different story.
	Yeah, totally agree.
	And it's just the wrong approach to take.
	If you're going to do anything, don't start with an authoritarian mindset thinking, right?
	I'll dictate to the plebs.
	I'm a pleb.
	I don't like being dictated to.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	I just hate it.
	I can't stand it.
	But thanks a lot for coming on.
	I really appreciate it.
	Thanks, guys.
	Bye.
	Take care, man.
	Right, Richard Vundo.
	Sorry, I think you probably missed it.
	Hello, can you hear me?
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah, I think you've been waiting for ages, haven't you, man?
	Sorry.
	Oh, can you hear me?
	Hello?
	Yeah, I can hear you.
	How's it going?
	Oh, perfect.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	I'm okay.
	First, I'll keep this quick because you haven't got a lot of time.
	You need to sleep.
	It's 4 a.m. in the morning where you are.
	I'd like to say it first.
	What you're doing is really great.
	I think movements like this need a voice such as big as yours to influence other people to get on to speak up.
	Because all we need to do is just conversate with the different people that need to know about Gamergate and what it brings about.
	And why I like you also is that you have this one ideal that I like, which is independent thinking.
	I feel like everybody should retain information, analyze it, then make a decision based on that.
	I mean, that's the whole point of independent thinking.
	Yeah, forming an opinion based on how you're analyzing the data.
	This is why I don't get this idea that people will be able to judge me just because of my hobby.
	I was also a fan of rap music, but it doesn't mean that I went to Chicago shooting up houses because I heard two songs of like a cheap peep album.
	You know, it doesn't make any sense.
	Sweeping generalizations to me are the most ineffective way because the problem set is just too big.
	And being from a software development perspective, you hear people say, oh, well, Ubisoft can't put a female character.
	I mean, they have all the money.
	And to this day, all the money because the amount of resources that go into creating one character are heavy.
	If they had to go back into their software development cycle to create another female lead, they'll be up on time modeling, rigging.
	I had an idea for Anita Sarkeesian.
	If you want more female representation, approach the company, raise your own money, and say we want this type of character.
	And if I'm not mistaken, the fine young capitalists did something similar.
	Why didn't you go to them?
	You know, it's because it's because they don't have any logic.
	They don't have any points.
	So what did they do?
	They insult us.
	It's like high school.
	It's like kindergarten, actually.
	Hey, Jenny, please don't do that.
	Oh, no, you are a pucker head.
	You know, it's basically like that.
	Because people cannot argue.
	I mean, I've been called ISIS sexist M-R-A.
	MRA one, the MRA one was funny.
	You know, when you go up to neo-feminism, sorry for being so loud.
	No, neo-feminism pisses me off.
	You know what we should do?
	Neo-feminism pisses me off.
	You know what we should do?
	We should send this video to the news agencies.
	You should.
	You should.
	Because if I could continue my point about neo-feminism.
	Please, yeah, please.
	I would like feminism to be equal rights.
	Equal rights, men and women.
	But neo-feminism states: no, we want females to have the advantage while men are at a disadvantage because we hate them.
	If I went to every group stating that white people are evil, I wouldn't spend a day in Canada.
	Doesn't make any sense.
	Sweeping generalizations are effective.
	The problem set is just too big for you to make a sweeping generalization.
	And to base a whole, you know why they use this gaming culture?
	It's because I think it's a slippery slope argument, my perspective.
	I mean, because you go from, all right, this is a person that we are seeing.
	He likes games, so he's part of the gaming culture.
	But culture doesn't work in that way.
	Culture is dynamic.
	Culture is based on how many things have influenced you in your lifetime.
	Many things in the gaming world might influence you, but it doesn't mean that gamers are in a collective, this dangerous hive mind to just hate women.
	I remember when I was in Zambia.
	I'm ranting, aren't I?
	Sorry.
	I remember when I was in Zambia, we had this thing that said gamers are racist.
	And I was like, oh, why do you say that?
	Oh, it's because I played Call of Duty.
	And there was this whole paper about that.
	And I'm like, wait, wait a second.
	You mean the same game, man?
	The same games where I can pick anybody I want with any skin tone and play the person that I want to hate inclusion.
	Are these the same games that you're talking about?
	Let's go even a step further.
	Statistically, black people love fighting games.
	Statistically.
	And if you look at fighting games, they're the most racially diverse group of the most racially diverse cast you've ever seen in your life.
	Are we talking like Street Fighter?
	Street Fighter was so racially diverse.
	It was worldwide.
	But the funny thing is that, oh, it was.
	It was.
	You had to go to different contexts.
	But you know the funny thing about that?
	You know the funny thing about that?
	Listen, Street Fighter came out on an old superness system, supernessness arcade type of system.
	Now, for that type of system to be graphically impressive, you need to do a lot of work.
	So there's this character that comes out.
	His name is Barog.
	He's got gloves.
	He's a bit darker.
	And he's got pink lips.
	And everybody says, well, you guys just made him like that because you're racist.
	And I'm like, no, wait, have you seen the hardware that they're working with?
	This is in an embedded environment.
	What else could they do?
	At times you have to excite some of the fiction, but it doesn't mean that what they're going for is being racist or anything like that.
	So before I talk your mouth off, I mean, talk your ear off.
	Sorry, going.
	And I went on a rant.
	Sorry.
	I usually go on rants.
	And before I go, I just have to apologize for bringing up color sometimes because I feel like it's the most effective way I can have this cultural relativism.
	I mean, these people want me to join their gamers are bad just because they're feeling oppressed.
	I'm like, all right, let's take it this way.
	You're feeling oppressed.
	And you're a 25-year-old rich woman posting things on Tumblr.
	And I'm a third-world African citizen who came to Canada and who's still assimilating to the culture.
	And you should be able to speak for me.
	I know that's a logical fallacy, but that's the same fallacy they're going for.
	And I don't really subscribe to that type of thinking.
	I'm independent thinking.
	You get facts.
	I was neutral when I came to GammaGate.
	I was like, all right, let me first gauge what is happening.
	And I said, well, there's definitely something going on.
	And when I was reading it, I wasn't like, oh, Zoe, Zoe is a bitch.
	No, I didn't say that.
	Zoe was a net issue by that time.
	Zoe just said that issues going on in journalism, and I want the audience to talk about it.
	And one more last point before I leave.
	I am so sorry.
	I saw one person said, gamers can't, I mean, gamers can't be based on gamers have to be based on social commentary, but I definitely disagree with that because if we go into movies, I know what type of movies address social commentary and I know what type of movies don't.
	And I'll judge them based on that way.
	If I go to the help, if I'm reviewing the help, that movie about the black slave, I'll say, well, the help effectively communicated social commentary based on the slavery that were happening.
	But if I go into expandables and said, well, not enough feminism ideologies, I'm losing my mind.
	That's nonsensical.
	That's asinine.
	So if I go into a game, there are games that address social commentary everywhere, but they get ignored because they want to go to the big publishers and say, oh, we want you to come to our agenda.
	And the reason why they're doing this is because social justice is in right now.
	It's the popular thing to do right now.
	Social justice is the popular thing to do right now.
	It eliminates free thinking at all.
	Yeah, it really does.
	It eliminates free thinking at all.
	That's why I'm doing all this.
	It's dangerous, honestly.
	I really do complain about it.
	And the level, the level that.
	Sorry, God.
	I'm sorry, Richard.
	Sorry.
	We're going to have to remind us for this.
	Yeah, we're going to have to move on.
	It's okay.
	I'm so sorry for me enjoying your rap usually, to be honest.
	I was in jail.
	Yeah, it just hit five o'clock.
	Thank you.
	All right, you guys have a good one.
	Thank you for having me.
	Take care, Richard.
	Have a good one.
	Sorry for spamming your feet.
	No, no, don't.
	Honestly, don't apologise.
	You made some really great points, and I really enjoyed listening to them as well.
	Take care.
	Have a good one.
	Bye.
	Right, wet paint.
	Hello, can you hear us?
	Hello.
	Wet paint.
	No, can't hear wet paint.
	I'll just go on to Ryo Girl quickly.
	Hello, Ryo Girl, are you there?
	Hello, can you hear me?
	I can hear you.
	How are you?
	Oh, good.
	Thanks.
	It's like midnight here, so I'll be brief.
	Let's see.
	I'm 22 years old.
	About to finish up college with a geology degree.
	And the reason I'm bringing this up is because it's a STEM and there's not as many women in most STEM fields as there should be.
	And that comes from women's choices, which brings up the things like Aeneas Akeevi and Brianna Wu keeps talking about, is that they want women to be there, but they just don't want to.
	As much as I talk to different girls in school, trying to convince them to go to different STEMs, not just into geology, but just into physics, chemistry, which desperately needs people.
	They just need bodies anyway, regardless of gender.
	And they don't want to do it.
	They tell me that it's too hard.
	It's boring.
	I'd rather write.
	I'd rather be radical to English maging or sociology or become a psychiatrist or a child psychiatrist.
	And I'm thinking that people like Brianna Wu has this really big disconnect between what women's choices are.
	I completely agree.
	And this is why they say I'm a misogynist, because I say, listen, right?
	You can argue for these things all you want, but I think the number of women doing the things that they have now, the 22% of video game developers, however many geologists, I think that's probably the right number because they're completely free to make the choice to go and do those things and they're choosing not to.
	And the ones that are doing them have chosen to do it because they want to be doing it.
	And I think, like you say, they just need bodies, so to get anyone in is great.
	So the number of women doing it, like you say, it's personal choice, like a lot of these things.
	This is a free society in action, what we're seeing here.
	Yeah, most definitely.
	I can really agree to that.
	But I really wish that they actually would see that.
	And the media that does not cover that, that is really upsetting to me because as a person who is in these fields, you are overlooking that simple fact because you don't want to admit that.
	Because to be honest, I mean, what's the other choice other than to say, what?
	Mandate that women go into these fields?
	Force them to?
	I mean, I don't see them doing that.
	Well, I've actually made this joke as in.
	You're going to have to get a feminist Gestapo that's going to have to round up women and press gang them into these careers.
	There's actually an easy way to get them in.
	Well, I mean, why do they have to be in?
	If they don't want to be, I don't want to force anyone to do something they don't want to.
	Well, you don't have to force anyone.
	It's that all they're doing is telling women that all these fields, they're just going to get bullied or harassed and no one wants them.
	Instead of putting like there's women in these fields and in game development and like they're all obscure.
	No one knows their names.
	Because instead of trying to put them in the public eye so that girls have role models they might aspire to, they just want to complain about it and make girls scared about it.
	Yeah, Gwen.
	That's definitely what it is.
	Gwen, I know you want to talk and I know it's late.
	So if you do want to speak again, we'll definitely revisit this another time because you were talking about tabletop, I heard, and other things.
	Is that everything you wanted to say, Ryogo?
	No, just one more thing about in terms of Gamergate.
	Okay, I was trying to remember my thought.
	This is not for me.
	I'm very pro.
	I was here from the very beginning back when it was called the Quinn Conspiracy.
	So this is coming from other people who I know, my other friends who I know for many years.
	We play games together.
	And they don't like this.
	Majority of them, I think they represent a lot of gamers.
	They feel they just want both of us, both anti-Gamergate and pro-Gamergate, just to shut up at this point.
	And I'm thinking, are we really losing a PR battle when it comes to gamers itself?
	I mean, it feels like we're in a fight between the anti-Gamergate people, these extreme feminists, but in reality, we're being held back by a bunch of people that are saying, please don't fight these people.
	Just ignore them and walk away.
	Yeah, I guess just explain to them exactly how they're affecting the industry and just show people some of the crazy out there shit that they're saying.
	Oh, no, they do know all this.
	I mean, they do own, we joke about it constantly.
	I mean, we all say Tumblr is a joke to, you know, but they really just don't want to engage.
	I mean, I don't know if it's partially they just want to be asleep and just play the video games and just shut everything out and thinking that's going to be okay.
	I just don't know how to.
	I guess they must be.
	And unfortunately, I don't think that's an option anymore.
	So, yeah, I really didn't think that's an option.
	Oh, yeah, one more thing.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	Just one more thing.
	How can you think we can talk to other people outside Gamergate?
	Like, I've been trying to talk to my father, who's like, he's 70 years old, but he kind of gets this.
	But I'm talking about more people like my aunt, who's slightly feminist.
	How do we engage people off of Twitter?
	Right, again, that's a good question.
	I'm not sure I've got an answer for that right now.
	But I'll think about it.
	And if I come up with any ideas, I'll let everyone know.
	All right, thank you.
	Sorry, I can't answer that at the moment.
	I honestly don't know right now.
	Sorry.
	Maybe somebody else can.
	Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.
	It's a question out in the public dialogue, isn't it?
	So, you know, we need people to talk.
	I'm not the source of all the answers or anything.
	So, yeah.
	Thanks for having me.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	Who was next?
	You there?
	Sorry, I've got you.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I've gotten my thing fixed.
	So sorry about that.
	That's okay.
	Yes.
	First of all, it's great to talk to you.
	Totally awesome, one of my YouTube heroes.
	So you're on your path to become your own incredible Thunderfoot.
	Anyway, what I wanted to talk about, I've been following this entire Gamergate fiasco since the start around when Monday and Matt's YouTube video was flagged.
	And I just, just by involving myself and engaging in some ways, I was able to help out in many ways.
	I think in like I was one of the first people to catalog the actual list of news articles that came out on August 28th.
	Oh, were you?
	Were you a redditor poster?
	No, I wasn't one of the Redditors.
	I was just like, I'd heard some people talking about, like, I think I'd heard Mundane Matt mention that he'd seen a few and he'd heard someone else say that they'd seen like five go up on that day.
	And so that I became really suspicious.
	And so I started looking around and ended up doing a search and cataloging all of these articles and who they referenced and where they referenced to and like the time stamps of when these things came out and specific quotes.
	And then I fed that back into 4chan, just like posting it until some other people recognized that this was going on.
	Now, anyway, the reason why I mentioned this is because I'm not a clever man.
	I have trouble with communicating.
	I have ideas, but getting them out is a real challenge for me.
	And I would normally consider that my contribution to Gamergate would be inconsequential.
	But in doing that, I was able to actually spark something, I feel, and that carried on towards something that is constantly referred back to now, which fills me with all sorts of happiness and pride.
	But the reason I mention this is just because it's so important that if you, and this is to all the people listening to the stream, if you think that you don't have that much that you can contribute, do it anyway, because you have no idea how much you could actually move something forward or help other people with their own idea that's sort of in sitting half-baked in their own mental oven, right?
	Yeah, that's a great point, actually.
	That's basically how I end up forming all of my arguments, is that I'll have an idea for an argument triggered by a small thing, and then four or five more small things later, I've got the completed thing.
	That's a really great point.
	Even if you've just got a small point, just make it, you know, because it'll trigger someone else to have a thought.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I've been trying to do videos, and I feel that they're just too small, because it's like, okay, well, they said my point, but that only took like 30 seconds.
	How the hell do I expand on this?
	And I don't really want to crap up YouTube with a ton of tiny, tiny videos.
	But I don't know, it's just...
	Anyway, yeah, that's pretty much what I wanted to say.
	Maybe it's a good thing.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	But thanks for coming on.
	I appreciate that.
	Yeah, no problem.
	Thanks, man.
	Take care, man.
	Right, John Kelly, sorry for the weight.
	It's okay.
	I just wanted to say first off, Sargon, thank you for everything you do.
	You're an inspiration to me personally because with this Gamergate issue, I believe that it's really important in the long run.
	And a lot of this stuff has made me more politically awoken to a lot of things that I just kind of was apathetic towards.
	Anyway, I do have a question.
	Building on what Wet Paint said about doing small things to move forward, one thing that I want to do in this movement is try to showcase a lot of logical fallacies the anti-GG side has brought to the table.
	Problem is, there's so many of them that I can't tackle them all at once.
	And, well, I can't tackle one without tackling them all in some of these cases.
	What would you think is the best way to go about doing this?
	I think for most people in Gamergate, the trick is one step at a time.
	Just, you know, don't worry about what anyone else is doing so much as, and don't really worry about what anyone else says.
	One of the things the Digra thing, just Google Sargon Digra, and you'll probably run into a bunch of blog posts of people saying, oh, there's no connection to Digra.
	It's tenuous at best.
	There's nothing going on there.
	And it's just like, no, it's coming from idiots, you know.
	And I was so angry about it because I was just like, you guys, you just haven't done any research.
	I know you haven't because I have, and I can see the connection, and you guys haven't.
	And I'm not trying to get at those guys, obviously.
	It's just, you know, if you don't know, why don't you just stay silent?
	But conversely, if you do know something, speak up.
	You've got to speak up if you know something.
	No matter how people might respond to it, you're going to have to take the hit because if it's important information, it really does seem important to you from what you already know.
	It'll probably seem important to other people.
	And it might fit into, it might be a piece of the puzzle that someone else is missing.
	So you've got to say it.
	Just small things.
	So even if it's just, if you did a fallacy a day or something, if you saw a tweet that was a fallacy and you screen capped it and tweeted it out, this is this fallacy because of this, this, and this, 140-character pithy thing, that would be amazing, I think.
	Yeah.
	I plan on broadcasting the articles on Twitter.
	I do criticize myself because the article I have is short, but after what he said and what you said, I think it might work.
	It might need some more sources to it.
	That's the only problem, but I think I can easily get those.
	If you want to, like, the current article I have right now is on, what was it?
	Sorry, it's just there's so many of them.
	Hold on.
	Shifting the goalposts, because that's the biggest issue at the moment, especially with the mainstream media, where instead of talking about ethics and game journalism, ship the conversation over to harassment.
	And they're both valid issues.
	It's just that you can't conflate to the two.
	Otherwise, you play both ends against the middle.
	It just doesn't work.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, no, that's true.
	That's true.
	That's true.
	But yeah, I don't know too much.
	I'm a bit tired, to be honest, mate.
	That's all right.
	That's all right.
	So yeah, I don't really have anything to add to that.
	Okay, well, thank you for having me on then.
	Not a problem.
	I'm sorry, I'm not more alert.
	It's getting on.
	No, no, it's understandable.
	You had like 100 people wanting to get on, and it's amazing that you did have so many people on as it is.
	It's been wonderful, actually.
	It's been really interesting to hear everyone's perspectives.
	Because a lot of people have got a small amount of information and they've got nowhere to show it.
	And I thought this was a good idea, so I did it.
	But I thought it was Cerberus's idea, but I thought it was a good one.
	And usually his ideas are terrible, so...
	Just making sure you weren't asleep.
	Thanks a lot for that.
	Yeah, I met Cerberus on one of Robin's streams yesterday, actually.
	He's a great guy.
	Yeah, he is.
	He is.
	Oh, thanks, man.
	He is.
	I researched with Cerberus, and he's amazing at it.
	A lot of this wouldn't have been possible without him.
	Okay, then.
	I did have another question, but actually one of the other persons in the room.
	Oh, sorry?
	One of the other persons in the room has already asked it, and I liked your response to it, so it's done.
	Okay, great.
	Take care, man.
	You too.
	Bye.
	And finally, Gwen, sorry for the long wait, but you get to have the last word.
	Well, the topic I want to discuss is very big, so this probably isn't the time or the place for it yet.
	And that's talk about a lot of the stuff that's been going on but not mentioned in Tabletop.
	There's been actually one article related to Gamergate going after Tabletop, and I've been talking about that everywhere.
	So it's a big topic, so you heard in the grapevine that tabletop players want their own Gamergate to happen.
	Yeah, basically, there's been a lot of stuff, especially in RPGNet, which is one of the big hubs, and it's a pretty big topic to really get into, so I think,
	considering everyone's kind of fatigued, I'll just say one thing, and that's one of, it isn't up yet, but one of my sites that I'm really looking forward to as an alternate to the current game's journalism structure is Spells Fired.
	I don't know if you've heard about it, but it's a very interesting project.
	Everyone should probably go check out Spellspire, was that?
	Spells Fired, yeah.
	Spells Fired.
	You should probably get them on maybe next time and just get them to talk a little bit.
	It's a very unique project that I think would be a good solution to the game's journalism.
	Yeah, get them to give me a shout and I'll talk to them and see what they're all about.
	Okay.
	I will.
	Tabletop players.
	Are tabletops games?
	Do they come under Gamergate?
	Is it social justice involved in invading a gaming space?
	Yes, they've been invading our gaming space.
	Yeah, because I mean, I'm a huge 40K fan, and I used to play 40K when I was 12, and I stopped when I was about 28 because I was poor.
	So it's not for any lack of love that I don't play 40K, and I still fucking love it.
	So I don't see, I personally don't see any reason that tabletop gamers couldn't use Gamergate, but it's not for me to say.
	So I think it's something that should be in the public dialogue that everyone should be talking about.
	Because, frankly, if these people are being, and I hate to say this, but oppressed by the social justice warriors in what is quite possibly one of my favorite mediums ever, then let's help those guys out as well.
	There's no reason they can't be joining in on this.
	Gwen, Gwen, which systems in Tabletop?
	Just very quickly.
	That they're attacking or just my favorites.
	No, they're attacking.
	They're going after actually everything they possibly can.
	One of the more notorious things they've done recently in RPGNet is there was this thread in Numeria.
	The new one by Monty Cook.
	And there's this one monster called the something wife.
	I'm a little bit tired, but it's a monster that takes the form of females.
	And everyone's going, oh, that's sexist.
	And the co-founder, one of the co-people, sorry, I'm really tired.
	Basically, she got on and like one of the top people working with Monty Cook on this made the monster and she got on the thread and she said, I made this.
	I'm a woman.
	I made this.
	This is a monster.
	It's not actually a woman.
	It just takes the form of women.
	This isn't sexist.
	But people still got banned for the discussion.
	They just can't separate fantasy from reality, can they?
	No, and there's really drives me crazy.
	Oh, and there's so much more I could probably go into a little bit at a time, but yeah, it's been.
	I'm sure I'll cover the tabletop thing because, I mean, I don't have the luxury of time and money to play it anymore, but it's something that I would be very concerned about.
	You know, a battlefield being lost to the social justice warriors in this war on multiple fronts.
	Traditional gamers and tabletop gamers are gamers too.
	Yeah, and I've been painting, I've been painting elves for the last five, sorry, 30 minutes.
	Yeah, what's interesting is that I've Kirbs is an amazing speed painter, apparently.
	And I've been trying to get him to get a camera to video himself speed painting to use it as a tutorial for other people because he's amazing at it.
	And he won't do it.
	I don't know why.
	And now I've put him on the spot.
	Yeah, not doing it.
	Not yet.
	There's helpful things there.
	You should do it.
	But anyway, thanks a lot for coming on, Gwen.
	Really appreciate it.
	And the tabletop thing is something I definitely think.
	Okay.
	I think he's dropped.
	It's okay.
	But I'd love to cover it with you guys.
	We can discuss it on Twitter or your chosen instant messenger and maybe do something about it at some point.
	Yeah, thank you for bringing it to our attention there as well.
	You're welcome.
	Okay.
	I'm just going to close up everything.
	Well, I can't close up everything.
	I've got to wait for Sargon.
	I think, unless I have control panel access.
	Oh, no.
	I can't.
	So we're on dead air time at the moment.
	I just want to thank everybody actually for coming out and doing this.
	And I really think after listening to everybody, we could actually send this to the media outlets because the wide-ranging spectrum of people that are concerned, you know, we need to.
	These people that have spoken tonight, they need to have a voice in the media as well.
	Not just here.
	And that's my opinion.
	Thank you, and good night.
	Good night, Gwen.
	Have a good night.
	Yep, drop the mic.
	No.
	Unfortunately, I've got work in three hours and I've been doing these streams for the last three nights.
	Of course, mate.
	Of course, my bloody connection had to go at the very end.
	I know.
	All right.
	But yeah, thanks, man.
	Thanks for staying up all night.
	I really appreciate it.
	I've been doing this without you.
	Seriously, there's no way I could have done this on my own.
	Really appreciate it, man.
	It's okay.
	Just sign it off.
	You know, I think you can.
	Cool.
	Okay, well, thanks.
	Big thanks to everyone who came on.
	I really, really appreciate it.
	And if you can hear stuff in the background, it's because I'm next to some reason.
	Five in the morning is when all the boy races come out.
	But yeah, thanks to everyone.
	I really, really appreciate it.
	It's been really, really interesting as well.
	I was expecting a lot of good points, but I wasn't expecting quite so many good points.
	And it's really, really great to see the diversity.
	And I hate to have to mention it.
	It's something I don't care about.
	But they care so much.
	And look at the sort of people that were coming on the stream.
	The social justice warriors, everything that they say about us is actually true about them.
	So just that's all you need to say, I think.
	And anyone can see it.
	I know it's terrible, but that is true.
	Anyway, thanks a lot for joining us, and I'm sure we'll do this again.

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