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Aug. 13, 2014 - Sargon of Akkad - Carl Benjamin
19:59
Feminist Arguments Rely on Fallacies
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I want to let Marianne jump on this one.
Go ahead, Marianne.
Yeah, I'd like to say as a feminist that I'm pretty darn happy, and I don't think I'm in the minority, and there are plenty of studies showing exactly the opposite.
This woman claims that women's happiness has actually been increasing in response to a count's claim of that it's actually declining.
The evidence supporting the claim that it's declining are things like are done by women's magazines.
They're done by people with a vested interest in women.
And they are finding that women are generally rating themselves as less happy than women of their mothers or grandmothers' generations rated themselves.
Now, her response is, well, we have studies that prove it is.
I can't help but think that these are probably compromised by confirmation bias.
As in, we didn't ask a thousand women, we asked a thousand feminists.
And a thousand feminists are obviously going to keep lying to themselves.
When you actually have couples, when you have men and women both, are happier when they actually have accepted the fact that there is no such thing as innate characteristics.
When they have accepted it.
You mean when they have actually managed to persuade themselves it must be true, because then your argument makes sense.
Despite all evidence to the contrary, and despite their entire life experience up until that point, dealing with both men and women.
No.
What you are proposing is for them to give in to your brainwashing.
You even say it, directly say it.
Once you have accepted our ludicrous premise, then the rest makes sense.
There is no such thing as women really want to do this and men really want to do this.
There are most certainly trends, though.
You can literally give a ten-year-old boy a Barbie doll and he will turn it into a gun or a sword or something else with which to fight with his friends.
And yet, girls don't tend to do that.
It would make perfect sense if there was a biological difference between the genders because of evolutionary factors.
It would not make sense if it was arbitrary, if it was just, well, we've got men and women and one of them is going to have to be the hunter gender, so we'll teach them to fight.
But it would make sense if one of them was naturally inclined that way.
I watched a documentary with Michael Hesseltine in it.
And it was about violence, specifically street violence and fighting.
And he'd never been involved in any kind of fight or physical violence before.
And he went and met some really, really rough guys somewhere in London.
And there was this one black guy who was just like, yeah, this is my drug.
You know, this is what I get off and I love to fight.
I absolutely love to fight.
And after doing a little bit of fighting himself, Michael Heseltine found that he was enjoying it too.
I've seen documentaries where they say, you know, it releases endorphins into the brain.
It does feel good.
And as a man, I can tell you there is a part of me that wants to fight.
You know, I don't, obviously, because I'm a giant pussy.
But there is a part of me that wants to do that.
I'd like to contrast this with my sister, who I've known for 30 years.
I know her very well.
And I don't think there's a single part of her that would enjoy a fight.
Not one.
Everything about a physical confrontation would be hellish to my sister.
And yet to me it sounds kind of appealing.
We were raised in the same household, a very egalitarian household.
There was absolutely no suggestion that one sex was better than another.
Our parents were very, very firm with we love you both equally, there's no difference, all that sort of thing.
And so, I mean, I look at how we were raised, and we were raised very much, you can do whatever you want.
My natural proclivity was to go towards He-Man, and hers was to go towards my little pony.
I mean, you know, it's just the way things are.
That's exactly the source of policing and control.
I'm not done yet yet, and so you can be aggressive on your own time, but there's no need to be a twat woman.
Okay, you can be a passive-aggressive time waster on your own time.
How's that?
But the idea here is that there's nothing about being tough or being aggressive or being successful that has at all related to being a male.
It has everything to do with trying to make sure that you can be a good person, be good for the rest of your family if you choose, if you're contributing something to society.
It's a really pernicious myth, this idea that there's something about being male that makes you either better equipped, better able, more likely to succeed or to do any of these things that we should value in our society.
This woman does not believe in the patriarchy then.
If men weren't naturally inclined to do these things, then why are they doing them?
I can only assume that because you are obviously fucking crazy, you think all men are evil, power-hungry psychopaths who want to abuse women whenever they get the opportunity.
And you are fighting the good fight to prevent that from happening.
Because it seems to me that that's exactly what the figures say when 20% of women, politicians are women, and 5% of CEOs are women.
You think, well, I mean, they can get there.
They can get to those positions.
They just don't.
So either there is a monolithic conspiracy at play here, or women's natural inclinations just lead them away from those fields.
It should be a fairly simple conversation: that if there are good things for people to do that improve everybody's lives, that make society better, less violent, more interesting, more creative, more fun, more sexy, those are things that we should be talking about that everybody can do.
And it's just a sign, as I was saying, of weakness and fear, and at least some kind of bigot of impotence to say, no, it has to be like this.
I demand that it stay like this, and all of you who are doing things that are different are messing with nature, and I really need you to stop.
That's a real sign of weakness.
This is equal parts ironic and terrifying.
The idea that this woman thinks that she can speak for everyone, that she can accurately represent everyone, I mean, anyone, let alone feminists, is beyond me.
But even if that were true, yes, it's a sign of weakness.
Yes, because men have allowed this to happen.
You are the ones who are convinced that men are ruling the world with an iron fist, and yet you're gaining all this ground to the point where you're making this particular man, and I'm sure many other like him, really feel like you're attacking them personally.
That's the problem.
You are actually going after this guy personally, and you're doing it under the guise of everyone thinks this, when it's not, it's just the feminists that think this.
There is a complete lack of empathy for this guy's position.
And the thing is, I'll probably cut it out because it will make this video inordinately long if I leave his argument in, but I'll put a link in the description.
This guy does try to empathize with her points.
He says, you know, if you guys want to do something, then do it.
Just don't demonize me.
That's all he's asking for.
And she will not concede this.
He is wrong because he is a masculine man.
What a prick in her eyes.
And this is why she becomes wrong.
You know, on the face of it, the things she says sound reasonable.
Yeah, we should.
But we should do things that can benefit everyone.
But what she's trying to do doesn't benefit everyone.
It doesn't benefit him.
He is part of everyone.
He's a person.
She's talking about people.
It doesn't benefit him, so she's wrong.
Something that really annoys me is that yes, it is a sign of weakness and fear.
So don't attack that person.
So don't you don't need to defeat this person.
He's worried.
He is afraid.
He is afraid because he is being demonized.
What he is is a bad thing, according to you, the persecutor.
Don't keep going on.
That makes you look bad, woman.
Makes you the dickhead here.
He, people are going to sympathize a lot more with him than they are with you.
On to that and wrap us out.
Well, I do think it's interesting because Gavin is in fact presenting what's wrong with masculinity right now.
It's this insistence that things have to be a certain way.
What does his evidence for that?
He's not saying anything, you fucking idiot.
Oh, Gavin, take it out.
This is what masculinity looks like.
No, it's not.
This is what a victim looks like.
And you are what an abuser looks like.
This is the point.
You can't even be magnanimous in victory.
You have to be such a colossal dickhead about it.
And this guy was correct.
He wasn't insisting anything other than there does appear, from the evidence that we have, to be natural inclinations.
That's all he was saying.
And all he was really saying was, I'm not bad just because I'm masculine.
That's all the essence of his argument was.
This is exactly what it looks like.
Now, why is Gavin so scared?
Why is he so frightened of the fact that some women don't want to have kids?
Some women do.
Some men want to take care of their kids.
Some men don't.
That is an intellectually dishonest straw man, and you fucking know it, you bitch.
He is not afraid of that.
He is completely in favour of that.
But what he is afraid of is bitches like you who are going after him for what he is.
As if him being born and raised a masculine man is bad.
It's just another label.
You can say it about being gay for fuck's sake.
Do you understand?
Persecuting anyone for how they naturally are is a bad thing.
Nothing should be frightening about that.
The only thing people need to be scared of is people like Gavin.
Or totalitarian feminists who have no idea where their actions are going to lead them.
Who are simply imposing their way and saying it has to be this way and pretending to be concerned about people's happiness.
If people are truly happy doing something, if it really is in their instincts, no amount of culture is going to change that.
It's not as though you stop being hungry because society tells you not to.
This is a false analogy.
For fuck's sake, woman, your argument is filled with logical fallacies.
Hunger isn't part of a culture.
It's a biological drive for food.
It's not cultural.
There is no choice but to eat.
It's an essential function like going to the toilet or sleeping.
These are not cultural traits that you can choose not to do.
So the fact of the matter is, if our society is getting more equal, men are doing things that they didn't do before.
Women are doing things that they didn't do before.
And we're getting healthier and happier as a society.
There is nobody who should really be criticizing that.
Is this woman delusional?
What society does she live in where everyone's getting healthier and happier?
I don't see any evidence of that.
I see people getting more fractious and upset and miserable.
The suicide rates are skyrocketing.
You know, this...
I don't see any evidence for this being a happy society, so...
So you're wrong.
Again, you've assumed something that isn't true.
Yeah, whether you agree or disagree with that guy, you have to admit, he's a massive douche.
No, I don't, and no, he wasn't.
And also, when I was reading about him earlier, one of the things said that he was like the godfather of hipsterdom.
Oh, that makes me hate you even more, you pathetic loser.
I'd like to hear your view on what this guy is.
If the benchmark of that other dude coming on and defending his points makes him a pathetic loser.
But alright, so let's break this down in a couple quick ways here.
When it comes to feminism, here's the thing.
Feminism totally makes sense if you define it in a way that says women should have the same opportunities as men.
Right?
So in other words, the pay gap, for example, this is the perfect go-to example of sexism where I think it's rather indisputable that women make 77 cents to a man's dollar for the exact same work.
Oh, fuck.
Jesus fucking Christ.
This guy's an idiot.
I didn't realize.
Everyone who has half a brain cell has gone and looked up that U.S. Department of Labor study where they say, in aggregate, when you total up all of the working men and all of the working women, the women are earning less than the men.
It is illegal to pay people based on their gender.
And it is illogical.
If you could pay a woman to do exactly the same work to exactly the same standard as a man and pay them 25% less, why would you ever hire a fucking man?
But it's not like corporations are legally bound to make profit for their shareholders or anything, is it?
Oh, wait, yes, that is exactly the purpose of corporations.
So if there was a way of cutting their staff expenditures by 25%, do you think they wouldn't take it?
No, there'd be a lot of patriarchal backslapping going, no, oh boy, we'll fire the women.
We'll pay them less.
I mean, it is such a fucking ludicrous thing at this point.
It is stupid.
It is.
It's wildly misinformed.
So yeah, you're right.
It's not up for debate.
You're wrong.
I'm actually loathing how much I have to just be flat note, that's wrong.
And therefore, anything you're basing off of it is also wrong.
It's pissing me off.
I want to be able to say, you know, no, he's got a point here, he's got a point there, and they just fucking don't.
Which is not okay.
That's just absurd and pathetic and stupid, and we should do something and change that immediately, right?
All right, dipshit.
Why don't you send a letter to your Congress saying, hey, I want men and women to get paid the same amount for the same job.
And they'll send you a letter back citing the law saying, yes, we passed that in 1972 or whenever it was passed.
And you'll be sat there, but I don't understand.
The feminists are telling me that's not true.
And they'll reply back saying, look, man, it's the law.
What more could we possibly do about it?
We are the fucking lawmakers.
So if you're talking about fighting that, I will be on the front lines of that battle.
And if it means that I'm a feminist by definition, then call me a feminist.
I don't care.
Right?
Or when it comes to job discrimination, how oftentimes women don't get a fair shake when it comes to getting a job in a male-dominated society, more unemployment there, or whatever the case is, and they don't have the same opportunities.
I get it, and I'm leading that battle, and I agree with it.
Even though we saw in a previous video, I can't remember which one now, that new corporate hires are something like 57% or 52% women.
So they're getting more jobs than men.
They're just knocking it off before they reach CEO, like most people.
So, yeah, I would agree with you, but that's we already have that.
We've gone for an egalitarian society.
That's the point.
But the only area where feminism loses me is the radical feminism.
And I always think of a story that we covered on the show, I believe it came out of France or Germany, where there was a Barbie playhouse that somebody decided they were going to make.
It was going to be their business.
And, you know, little girls or little boys, if they wanted to, can go there and they see, oh my God, all the different Barbie exhibits and yada yada.
It's a real-life Barbie playhouse, right?
And feminists in that area protested the opening of it and tried to get it shut down.
And they said, no, no, no, you are trying to mold the minds and indoctrinate these girls that they have to act a certain way.
To which I respond, no, sometimes a little girl wants to play with the Barbie no matter what direction you want to push them in.
It is what it is.
We shouldn't ban Barbie because you think it's indoctrination.
And the irony is the actual indoctrination is when the radical feminist tells little girls, beat off your feminism, beat it off you with a stick, right?
Beat off probably wasn't the best term to use.
Beat away your feminism.
Don't, you know, if you actually feel like a feminine, like that's your identity is feminine, you shouldn't.
Everybody should be masculine-like.
That's where feminism loses me, and that's where it gets kind of radical.
And there are such things as radical feminists.
But the idea is to pick the right battles and, you know, fight the right things.
And then, of course, I agree with feminism.
And I think anybody who disagrees with it in that respect would be wrong.
Yeah, I sat through that stupid ramble, so you had to as well.
I love it.
He knows he's been conditioned.
He's like, no, you know, when it's saying things that are obviously fucking stupid, I can't agree with it.
But otherwise, I can agree with it.
It's like, well, why don't we just skip it and go, you know, just go for something that just has the common sense in it.
It doesn't have to be feminism.
We can just have egalitarianism or something like that.
Something that's not ludicrous and obviously man-hating.
Just something that's fairly neutral.
Just everyone, just chill, get along, do what you want, as long as you're not bothering someone else.
You know, everyone will be happy with that.
And the final point here, look, there are biological differences between men and women.
So, for example, men have more testosterone, women have more estrogen.
Obviously, we have different genitals, right?
Like, these things are obvious, right?
But outside of that, there's really no difference.
That's the reality of it.
And so, for outside of the two major contributing factors to masculinity and femininity, there's really no difference.
There's absolutely none.
I mean, you know, outside of the fact that, you know, my car has wheels, outside of the fact that my car has an engine, but my bike doesn't, there's really no difference.
No difference at all.
You know, despite the fact that, you know, they're both completely separate and the very nature of the engine or lack of changes the form and function of the item in question.
No difference at all.
No difference.
They're both still vehicles.
For people to say, women naturally want to do X.
No, they don't.
You made that up.
And by the way, you can see it throughout nature that that's not true.
So in certain, with certain types of animals, the women are the dominant ones.
And the men are the passive ones and the ones that stay home and nurture the kids, yada yada.
And it varies throughout the animal kingdom.
We're talking about human beings, you fool.
women do seem to have, on average, a natural tendency towards different things to men.
That's just the way the world is.
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