All Episodes Plain Text
April 29, 2026 - Bannon's War Room
48:45
Episode 5334: The Fall Of Humanity; Transhumanist Vision Of America And The World

Stephen K. Bannon and MIT professor Max Tegmark expose the transhumanist agenda behind AI development, revealing how oligarchs like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel seek to replace humans with obedient robots under the guise of progress. They contrast this elite ambition with 85% public support for human control, criticizing the lack of regulation compared to basic health codes and alleging that tech leaders use China as a pretext to avoid accountability. The segment concludes by urging resistance against "techno-feudalism" through the Pro Human AI Declaration, warning that unchecked recursive self-improvement could lead to human extinction unless a government kill switch is enforced. [Automatically generated summary]

Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Participants
Main
m
max tegmark
mit 21:32
s
steve bannon
r 17:46
Appearances
j
joe allen
03:30
Clips
j
jake tapper
cnn 00:08
r
ross douthat
00:04
|

Speaker Time Text
Primal Scream of Dying Regime 00:02:13
steve bannon
This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
Pray for our enemies because we're going to medieval on these people.
You're just not going to free shot all these networks lying about the people.
The people have had a belly full of it.
I know you don't like hearing that.
I know you're trying to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.
unidentified
It's going to happen.
jake tapper
And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
MAGA Media.
I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
unidentified
Ask yourself.
steve bannon
What is my task and what is my purpose?
If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
unidentified
War Room.
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bann.
steve bannon
It's Wednesday, 29 April, the year of our Lord 2026.
Pete Hegseth is getting grilled momentarily on Capitol Hill as the Secretary of War.
We've got, I guess, the confirmation vote coming out of committee today of.
Of Kevin Warsh for Federal Reserve Chair.
We're going to get to all that momentarily down in Tallahassee, Florida.
There's also going to be a vote on the redistricting map 24 to 4.
Caroline, our own Caroline Wren, is in Tallahassee and will be going to her live at 11.
The Attorney General of these United States got lit up this morning, I think on CBS by Major Garrett, about why is Jack Posovic not charged with trying to endanger the president?
This would be Biden.
For saying, I guess, 8646 back years ago.
Jack Basova is going to be with us at 11.
Caroline Wren is going to be with us at 11.
So we're going to get caught up in everything that's going on today.
Another crazy, insane day in the Imperial Capitol.
However, want to connect what's happening in Tallahassee right now with not related to the redistricting, with the lead story on Axios this morning and something that is absolutely urgent.
Pro Human AI Declaration 00:14:23
steve bannon
Max Tegmark joins me.
Max came down from MIT.
Max, what's your position at MIT?
max tegmark
I've been a professor there since forever, and my research is focused on artificial intelligence.
steve bannon
You started as a theoretical physicist?
Is that it?
max tegmark
Yeah, yeah.
And about nine years ago, I decided to shift my research focus mainly into AI research.
steve bannon
Why did you do that?
Because theoretical physicists are the guys that gave us the atomic bomb, right?
max tegmark
I just found AI was developing so rapidly.
I was convinced that it was developing much more rapidly than other people believed.
And I was fascinated by it.
So I decided I'm going to actually understand this issue better and research it and see, among other things, is it possible to control AI that's smarter than humans?
We had a paper on it that we had accepted to the biggest AI conference in the world last December, where the tentative answer is no.
If we build machines, if we build basically a species of super intelligent robots that are way smarter than us, faster than us, stronger than us, that can build robot factories that build more robots, you know, there's.
It seems pretty obvious that we might lose control.
You just go down to the zoo here in DC and look at who's in the cages.
It's not the most intelligent species because intelligence kind of confers control.
But our paper found with a very nerdy calculation that, yeah, the best.
Ideas people have for controlling some such a thing.
steve bannon
Your work in theoretical physics came that mathematics is just not a representation of how you understand reality.
Correct me if I'm wrong, that mathematics is actually reality itself?
Was that generally how you came?
I mean, that was your drive in what made your name in theoretical physics for years, right?
You were the cutting edge of that aspect of physics.
max tegmark
The reason they gave me tenure at MIT, I think, is because I had done a bunch of very nerdy work with experimental data and connecting you with theory to figure stuff out about.
Our universe, how much dark matter there is, stuff like that.
But the thing you mentioned about math, you know, I love math.
And I think it's become more and more clear that math describes a lot, not just about how a bottle will move if I throw it, but about a lot more in our world, including information processing.
And it's exactly this idea that's given us artificial intelligence.
You know, people, the core idea that's given us the AI revolution.
Is this idea that intelligence is fundamentally, you know, the capability to accomplish goals is fundamentally about information processing.
And it doesn't matter whether the information is processed by carbon atoms in neurons in brains or by silicon atoms in our machines.
And this is precisely what's so terrifying about the trajectory that a lot of Silicon Valley investors are trying to put us on now, where they've started to realize that, you know, Maybe we don't need these workers to get so much income.
Maybe we can build machines that replace them.
Maybe we don't need human girlfriends.
Maybe we can build AI girlfriends that can outcompete them on the market and make money off of that.
Maybe we don't even need so many humans altogether.
We can have all these robots.
Maybe we don't need democracy.
Maybe we tech bros can, through dominating AI, Dominate the power structure of Earth.
steve bannon
And that's where we're going today.
You've been involved.
Do you notice any for the tech bros or the oligarchs?
Since you come at this from theoretical physics and information processing and not from computer science or double E or whatever, are they naturally dismissive of anybody?
The AI crowd, are they naturally trying to, when people try to put up flares that are not part of the inner sanctum, do they naturally say, well, they're all good guys, but they don't really understand what's going on?
max tegmark
It's really sociologically interesting.
The research community has been really welcome.
I mean, they cite our papers, we do.
One of them has over 3,000 citations.
They think it's interesting because we bring some fresh perspectives from physics, from information theory, into AI.
On the other hand, the ones who have been very dismissive are people who have a lot of money in the game.
steve bannon
Because this is about money and power right now.
max tegmark
That's what it's about.
That's very much what it's about.
Talk about using AI to cure cancer.
There are a lot of scientists who really, really want to cure cancer.
I think that's quite sincere.
But when they talk about building super intelligence, which is defined as AI that can make all human workers entirely obsolete, that's not driven by a desire to cure cancer.
We don't need super intelligence to cure cancer.
We've already cured 75% of all cancers, and we're on track with narrower AI tools to cure all of it if we continue.
No, the super intelligence thing is that it is driven by the desire for power and money.
And in some cases, also by transhumanist ideology.
steve bannon
And transhumanist, we're going to get, one second, the reason that we're restructuring the show and having Max here at the beginning, when I mentioned Tallahassee, Governor DeSantis, I said yesterday, Governor DeSantis called this special session to accomplish two objectives.
Number one was to do the redistricting map of what Caroline Wren has just informed me, I believe is going to pass sometime this morning during the first part of the show.
We're going to go to Tallahassee at 11, get Caroline Wren live.
The other part that Ron DeSantis, and Ron DeSantis, as I said, as people know, I was not a big fan of his running against President Trump.
In fact, I think this show in War Room was the number one reason he was out of the race in 60 days or whatever, 90 days.
Governor DeSantis understands the peril of artificial intelligence and the states because the oligarchs have just gone out of their way to try to jam this AI amnesty.
Somehow, to bill in, and by the way, it may happen in the reconciliation.
They're everywhere trying to jam this.
In this show, it has defeated it three times.
Governor DeSantis realized we have to do it at the state level.
I'm here to inform you that Caroline Wren tells me because Mark Andreessen has basically bought and paid for the Speaker of the House in Florida that the bill will not even come to the floor.
I think the Senate passed it yesterday or is very enthusiastic about it, but the Speaker of the House thinks his name is Perez.
He's a Mark Andreessen, the super PAC they've got.
They bought and paid for him.
In this effort you've had over 10 years and seeing the perils of this, you put out, I guess it's been a couple of months ago now, this kind of overarching construct of putting humans first, that we have to make humans the center of this.
Walk us through this because I want to show some polling at the end of it.
But it's kind of common sense that, you know, like my parents would believe in.
It's kind of common sense.
unidentified
Yeah.
steve bannon
Americana, if you look at the 250th.
You know, we had the king here yesterday.
We're kicking off all these commemorations of the 250th.
It would be what, you know, from the Enlightenment and humanists like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and the people that the revolutionary generation would be 100%.
In fact, I think they'd be very proud in the 250th year we're coming out with a proclamation that really talks about putting humans first.
You want to describe that?
And if we can put that up on the, not the polling yet, but if we can put the up on the screen.
I'd appreciate it.
You want to walk through that?
unidentified
Yeah.
max tegmark
Anyone listening can also go to humanstatement.org and read it.
It's the pro human AI declaration.
Honestly, the inspiration for this, you have a little bit to do with it because it started becoming, Steve, it started becoming very striking to me that there was incredibly broad support in America for these ideas.
For a long time, I used to call this the The Bernie to Bannon coalition saying, hey, you know, yeah, curing cancer is great.
We can do a lot of wonderful things with AI to strengthen our economy and strengthen our country and strengthen our military, but let's make sure that it's in the service of human beings, not in the service of some machines or an oligarch that owns them.
And so what we did was a long process of bringing together people from the MAGA right to the Bernie left and everything in between.
To see what, if anything, did these people all agree on?
And it culminated with a conference in New Orleans, which was just remarkable.
You might think at the end of this they would come out and say, We agreed on nothing.
They agreed on 33 principles grouped into five themes.
Stuff like it should be humans in charge.
unidentified
Right.
max tegmark
Things like no amnesty for tech companies.
They should be treated with the same kind of guardrails as other companies are treated.
No, we should not, the government should have the power to shut things off if they go out haywire.
You should not allow.
Robots to have the right to vote.
You should not allow AIs to be able to run a company with no human responsible so that no one is liable for harms.
A lot of very common sense stuff.
And you might think everybody would agree with this, but no.
There are many, many things in there that Mark Andreessen and the super PAC is lobbying very hard against.
steve bannon
Joe Allen was actually at that conference.
Yeah.
max tegmark
Contributed actively to it.
steve bannon
Very actively.
We came out with.
This is to show the polling when we get back from the break.
85% of the American people basically agree that this is common sense and you have to do this.
The oligarchs themselves, and Driesen's not one of the biggest oligarchs, but he's one of the biggest that he and Karp and Peter Thiel and Driesen are taking the lead on the political side.
They're setting up these packs and they're trying to, it's very simple.
Whether you have the children that are being abused or the children that are being overwhelmed.
And their parents are being overwhelmed by artificial intelligence, or if you have these, you know, people are not being able to monetize their intellectual property.
There's all types of issues.
The key issue is that there's no transparency.
Joe, Mike Allen, and Jim Vanderhay today on Axios, the lead story, has an article that I want Grace and Mo and Elizabeth to put up in the chat and everybody to see because they're scared the hell out of you.
It's about the acceleration on an accelerating rate.
Of what's happening since Mythos preview has come out.
max tegmark
Absolutely, absolutely.
So, when there is an issue like this where 85% or even 95% of Republicans and Democrats agree on, right, the only strategy that lobbyists and oligarchs can use to fight this is to not talk about the issues and start blowing smoke instead and do like ad hominem attacks, just attack the professors.
steve bannon
You've gotten very wise on politics very quickly.
It's been a real education.
max tegmark
But it's fun to laugh a little bit at and identify what kind of smoke they blow so listeners to the show can call it out.
One is when they just.
steve bannon
Hang on one second.
We're going to take a short break.
We're going to get to that afterwards.
In Tallahassee, it looks like money talked and controls over AI walked, at least for now.
Remember, we're a resilient movement for a reason.
Anti fragile in the war room today.
unidentified
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
steve bannon
Vander Hay and Mike Allen, who have done an excellent job.
As you know, Caputo is the go to guy they leak to in the White House, right?
You can tell that's like he's taking dictation.
Mark Caputo, good man, but taking dictation from certain elements of the White House.
Vander Hay and Allen have done the single best job in general media of warning us.
And the reason is they spend, they're completely sponsored by corporations, they spend a lot of time on this.
The article is behind the curtain.
We've been warned.
And take another pot of Warpath coffee and read it because it ought to scare you to the core of your being.
And what we need to do is make sure that these warnings, as Joe Allen says, are just not looking at the morning sports data on who's ahead and who's behind in Major League Baseball.
Continue.
You were about to say about the politics of this and getting people focused on this.
unidentified
Yeah.
max tegmark
So it's becoming a very salient issue.
You know, 90% or 95% of all Americans are very clear they want AI to be helping humans and they want humans to stay in charge.
So, the only way that lobbyists and oligarchs can push back on this is to avoid talking about the issues and just blow smoke.
So, one thing they'll do is they'll say, Oh, you know, we cannot ban AI girlfriends for 11 year olds because China.
Biological Gain of Function Explained 00:05:48
max tegmark
Or they can do ad hominem stuff like, You know, yeah.
Professor Joshua Bengio and Professor Jeff Hinton, they're just doomers.
They're anti innovation, you know, not mentioning that those are the two most cited scientists of all time who invented core parts of this technology.
So it's, we should make the bingo card, Steve, with the top 15 BS smoke puffs.
steve bannon
Well, Mike Allen and Jim Vanderhay to tell you, and those are corporate guys, they're not fire breathing populists, they tell you today that.
Because you can see the direction it's going and what we've talked about, what they've hit on their path to today, it can't be controlled.
And people like Anthropic are telling you the leading people in the labs that are truthful are saying the whole internal industrial logic of it is that humans won't be in control.
In fact, you have this thing now of what recursive programming, which is the big fear.
Folks, we're about to be hit, according to Alan and Vander Hey and other executives I've talked to in these companies.
With what's called recursive self improvement.
So, recursive self improvement means the machine itself is actually writing all the programming and becoming better and better every not over days but over hours, correct?
unidentified
Yep.
max tegmark
So, fun fact all the top American CEOs Sam Altman from OpenAI, Dari Amade from Anthropic, Elon Musk from XAI, Demis Asabes from Google LeapMind signed a statement in May 2023 saying this could cause human extinction.
This has been kind of a memory hold now.
The people building the very tech are warning it could end humanity.
And it wasn't just them, it was so many top AI researchers and others.
And the idea is actually pretty obvious why this could go wrong.
As I mentioned earlier, if you go down to the zoo here in DC, which I actually did with my three year old last month, look who's in the cages.
It's not the people.
If you have, it tends to be the most intelligent entity around.
Gets in charge, intelligence gives power.
So the godfather of the whole field of AI said in 1951 this is Alan Turing if we build these machines that can totally outsmart us, then we should expect them to take charge.
Now, the way to keep charge as humans is, of course, to make sure that we don't let them improve themselves, that we always have a human in the loop.
And for that reason, a bunch of the leading AI folks actually signed on to a thing.
Already in 2017, saying recursive self improvement is really, really risky.
It is the AI kind of what biological gain of function is to biology, except you're now dealing with really intelligent things that are making themselves smarter.
steve bannon
Slow down for a second.
I want to hit that again.
max tegmark
Yeah.
steve bannon
Our audience knows gain of function better than anybody.
We were the first ones to break that in February of 2020.
We actually changed the show's title to Warren Pandemic for two years.
Walk me through why gain of function, what it could do for powering up viruses to weaponize them.
max tegmark
Yeah.
steve bannon
Why is recursive?
Why is recursive analogous?
max tegmark
So, in biology, gain of function research just means you do something to make the viruses more dangerous or the bacteria more dangerous.
And there was all this controversy because Professor Peter Daschek got funding from the U.S. government to do this in Wuhan, China, and so on.
steve bannon
Of which our own Natalie Winters is the one that broke the story.
But remember, in gain of function, they're always doing it for the betterment of mankind, they're not doing it to weaponize the virus.
They're really doing it so they can find other.
The Chinese Communist Party in Wuhan really wants to find.
max tegmark
The AI people say the same thing.
steve bannon
It's a bald faced lie.
max tegmark
We're just letting the robots and the non robotic AI systems make themselves smarter because it's going to work out great for humanity.
But needless to say, if all the AI RD can eventually be done by machines, they can do it a lot faster than on the human RD timescale of a year or so.
So the next version that's better, the smarter AI might come.
After a month or a week or an hour or five minutes, and then that one can make a better one, and that one can make a better one, and off it goes.
And when you keep regularly improving, if you keep regularly doubling anything pretty quickly, that's what we call an explosion in physics.
If you double the number of neutrons in a chain reaction rapidly, that's what we call a nuclear explosion.
Double the amount of intelligence over and over, that's the intelligence explosion.
So, clearly, this is something that would be incredibly reckless to do before you've figured out how you're going to contain this thing.
With nuclear, we put a lot of research making sure that our reactors don't blow up, that we can control what happens.
Even in bio, we have biosafety labs and so on.
And it was exactly for that reason that, yeah.
steve bannon
Although the New York Times reports today in one of their lead stories, That AI has been biohacking.
They have this analysis about AI biohacking to create its own bioweapons.
max tegmark
Yeah, yeah.
And so in AI, there's like nothing right now.
Today, AI is less regulated than sandwiches in the US.
AI Less Regulated Than Sandwiches 00:15:41
max tegmark
What I mean by that, I mean, if you get tired of running the war room, Steve, and you decide to open a little sandwich shop here, right?
Before you can sell even one sandwich, some local health inspector is going to come check your kitchen.
steve bannon
No, I say if you want to open a nail salon on Capitol Hill, you have five times more regulation than the labs.
max tegmark
And if they say to you, hey, Steve, you know, sorry, found 16 rats in your kitchen, no sandwich sales for you, buddy, you could turn around to the guy from the government and be like, you know, actually, I'm not going to sell any sandwiches.
I'm just going to release AI girlfriends for 11 year olds.
And I'm going to release an AI system that might teach terrorists how to make bioweapons.
And I'm going to release super intelligence, which I don't know how to control.
You know, the guy from the government would have to be like, Okay, fine, Steve.
Just don't sell any sandwiches.
That's how messed up it is.
And clearly, the reason why the AI industry is so ferociously fighting to keep it this way is because they want the control.
They want the control.
And this gets to this broader issue we talked about before with power being very much at the core of what's really driving these forces.
steve bannon
Well, this is the point that this is what President Trump said about the kill switch.
These, whether it's Elon Musk, that we know he wants to do this, or Altman or whatever, the Frontier Labs, and Andreessen and Carp, and Carp is building a 21st century surveillance state right now on government money.
These people are beyond dangerous.
They, and I realize this audience has huge problems with the government, right?
I'm not here giving a program, but at least that is as close as you've got to representation versus the oligarchs.
The oligarchs want to go to techno feudalism.
They do not believe in the common man and woman.
In fact, you hear them say all the time that Washington's a center of mediocrity and they could care less about the populist movement.
They see the populist movement as the greatest danger to themselves.
These guys are techno feudalists.
They don't believe in this republic.
They don't believe in representative government.
They don't believe in the constitutional republic.
There's this whole thing about markets and just having a company.
They're like going back to Italy in the Renaissance, where you have basically city states, where you have Anthropic here, and you have Elon Musk here, and you have Google here.
They are a feudal master and everything underneath them, and they want to have as few humans in that process as possible.
This is the whole concept of going from 8 billion people down to 500 million for what they call the appropriate carrying capacity of the planet.
max tegmark
Well, if you look at past autocracies, Pharaonic Egypt and forward, what's often gone wrong ultimately for the despot was that there were some other humans who rebelled against them.
So it's much more convenient if you can replace a lot of those humans by.
Robots, which are just programmed to be fully obedient.
I think that's a little bit of the seductive.
steve bannon
There's no doubt in your mind, as you know, these companies and the researchers, and you talk to people, that is the, besides the happy talk they put up here, and all it's going to be, and we're going to give you some universal basic income.
We're going to give you, you know, 50,000 a year to hang around and play video games because you don't have any meaningful work.
Your strong belief is that is exactly what the intent of these oligarchs is?
max tegmark
Well, I judge people not by their words, but by their deeds, right?
So you take this thing about the kill switch.
Right, so did we see this clip?
steve bannon
No, we're going to play it as soon as we get back from a break.
max tegmark
And uh, you know, if the U.S. government wants to shut down some nuclear reactor because it's beginning, it's getting close to blowing up, there is a kill switch, an emergency shutdown procedure which will do it safely.
No brainer, right?
And uh, Rand Corporation put out a detailed proposal last year for how there should be that for an emergency.
Response system for data centers.
What if some hackers take over a big data center from OpenAI or Anthropic and start doing horrible attacks from there?
Surely it would be nice if the government could just get it shut down.
steve bannon
But hang on one second, I want to leave them hanging.
We're going to take a short commercial break with Max Tegmark, Joe Allen, next in the war room.
unidentified
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bath.
steve bannon
Okay, Pete Hackseth has given his opening statement.
Supreme Court of these United States has just reversed on racial gerrymandering.
We're going to have that 11 blockbuster news that we're going to try to get to Gras.
We've been working to make sure it's not too late to do these redistricting.
So, Democrats suck on that.
I guess I shouldn't say that today.
You're starting here in the war room, gracious enough.
You're going to end with Bernie at his town hall tonight.
But this is a fight in the trenches.
Of course, we won this one in Florida, as we'll announce here momentarily, top of the hour.
But we're losing on something that's overarching to everything.
If we don't get the AI right, Nothing else is going to matter.
Axios, talk to me about this recursive and what we're talking about the tempo and the kill switch is that even Anthropic is saying, hey, this thing's moving at an accelerating rate.
So with recursive, you could have in 90 days something that would take years could come out in hours.
max tegmark
Yeah.
In short, the dream of a lot of these transhumanists is to build a digital God.
They're mostly atheists, so they want to build their own God.
And then they have this idea that they're going to make it, they're going to somehow merge with it or.
steve bannon
That's something you hear on War Room.
Do you believe that to the core of your being, having met these guys and see what they're doing?
max tegmark
They say stuff like this when they're drunk to me.
I want to respect what people tell me privately and not reveal any names, but just hang out in San Francisco for a while at the right parties and you'll see.
So, coming back to the fact that you and Bernie Sanders. I get to talk with both of you today, and that you guys both agree that humans have to stay in charge, that the government has to be able to shut down hacked data centers, and so on, is just a fantastic illustration of the fact that this is the right path.
And it's quite astonishing to see companies resisting.
Why would any good faith company resist letting the elected U.S.?
Government, the democratically elected US government, shut down their data center if it gets hacked.
If, you know, I maybe I'm missing something, but to me it just seems like an urge for companies to keep control.
steve bannon
Take the argument.
Let's go to the argument of that.
President Trump and everybody's under this.
We've had a Sputnik moment.
The Chinese are competitive.
And Jensen Wong's there with the king last night in white tie, right?
And who's an agent of influence for the CCP.
What about their argument that if we don't allow these companies to have absolutely no controls whatsoever, that we will lose this race to the Chinese Communist Party?
max tegmark
That's like saying we have to allow anyone who wants to buy hydrogen bombs in supermarkets, otherwise, we would get invaded by Russia.
It's like saying if the U.S. government actually, after getting all the intel from our intelligence community, comes to the conclusion that there is a particular Corporate data center that's right now doing a cyber attack against the US government.
You know, why shouldn't the US government have the right to shut that down?
Why would stripping that right from our very government help China in any way?
Like, duh, that makes about as much sense to me as saying that we must allow character AI to sell AI girlfriends to kids because China.
steve bannon
But we have to also, at this time, put these oligarchs on notice.
We're not going to allow them.
To build the ecosystem of which China can even be competitive, the chips, Jensen Wong should not have the free ability to sell these advanced chips to China.
We should not educate these people in our university.
We should not have them in our labs.
We have to, if this is a moment like Sputnik was about nuclear and hydrogen weapons in the delivery systems, we have to play just as much hardball as the people in the 1950s and the 1960s.
That means they have no advantage at all.
We can't arm, which is what we're doing right now.
It's what Lenin said that the capitalists will eventually sell the rope of which we will hang them.
And that's what we're doing.
The Chinese Communist Party.
It's a totally phony thing.
And the worst people about building up the Chinese Communist Party.
Are the very people at the cutting edge of AI.
max tegmark
So, what you just said there perfectly drives home that they don't actually believe these companies, what they're saying about China.
They're using it as a red cloth in front of a bull to trick it, right?
They keep saying, but China, but China, simply as an excuse to be not accountable to the American people and to be able to continue making money on causing harm to American children, to continue.
steve bannon
The harm to children and these other aspects of these bills we try to get in are very important.
You can't, you know, because the damage is done to the families and the damage done to the kids is beyond control.
But the beating heart of the issue is we cannot have, we have to have full transparency of what they're doing in these labs, right?
Frontier labs.
And we have to have accountability.
max tegmark
Labs are like so sugarcoated.
They can see it.
Seems like innocent and harmless people in lab coats smiling at you.
steve bannon
And nice scientists like yourselves.
max tegmark
They like to be called labs because it's their image.
steve bannon
We have to have full accountability to that.
Joe Allen, jump in here for a minute.
What do you got for us?
joe allen
Steve, thanks for having me on.
Max, good to see you through the digital framework.
You look a lot better on screen than you do in person, I'll tell you that.
You know, Steve, the article that you guys were talking about earlier, the Axios article behind the curtain, I think it brings home.
The reality of the situation.
You know, super intelligence is undoubtedly an undesirable outcome for all of this, but it's still theoretic.
What these guys are talking about basically are just six points that can't be denied that AI is the fastest growing industry in history, one of the fastest, if not the fastest adopted technologies, that you already have systems that are dangerous enough that Anthropic, for instance, would not release it.
To the public, would only release it to a certain select group of corporations.
And that these systems are capable of, to some extent, building themselves.
I mean, I don't want to oversell that point, but undoubtedly, especially in companies like Anthropic, they're using the AIs to build the AIs.
So you're approaching that point of recursive self improvement.
And so none of these things can be denied.
You can spin it one way or you can spin it the other.
But they can't be denied.
And one of the points that they make, I think it's like their fifth point, is that there is a massive backlash from the public because people are becoming aware of this situation.
They feel very powerless in this situation.
And, you know, Altman had his home attacked.
You had an official, a councilman in Indianapolis who had his home attacked.
And again and again, I've had reporters ask me this.
I had an editor for one of the major publications ask me this.
Well, do you feel responsible for this?
No, not at all.
I think that these companies have created a situation which people are extraordinarily fearful, and pointing out specific psychopathic activities is ridiculous.
These companies are creating the situation, and it's real.
It's not pure fiction, it's not even really exaggerated.
They have put us in a very dire circumstance, and they have to be held accountable.
And I think deflecting with these random acts of violence is absurd, especially given how many children have killed themselves at the behest of.
Of chatbots, or how many people have died due to the decision compression of AI systems in our military?
steve bannon
Let's go.
Somebody knows the threat.
President Trump, can we get the kill switch video?
Can we play that?
Then Max, I'd like you to jump in.
max tegmark
Yeah.
unidentified
Should government have some safeguards?
Should there be a kill switch for some of these AI agents?
There should be.
max tegmark
So, I was so delighted to see our president say, Yes, there should be a kill switch.
In other words, if our commander in chief wants to shut down an American data center, he should have the ability to do so for the benefit of America.
And why does this matter?
Mythos and other incredibly supercharged hacking tools are really freaking the business community out now to the point where the bank is.
steve bannon
Besant used to be one of our contributors, had the top.
Banks, yeah, it too.
And by the way, with the Fed share, they don't get along to Treasury, and they told them your bank, JP Morgan, could be evaporated with these tools, evaporated everybody's savings, all the bonds could be evaporated in a matter of seconds, yeah.
max tegmark
So, if this, if the hacker attack that's doing this is in a particular data center, of course, Trump should have the right to get it shut down, no, no brainer.
And yet, in a look at what happened with Mythos Anthropic says to the U.S. government, you know.
This is so dangerous.
You should trust us in Anthropic that we will not release it, but you should never put any restrictions.
You have to keep it legal in America for us, Anthropic, to release these dangerous tools to any hacker we want to make the open source public, release it.
Why should the American government have to trust Anthropic or any AI company?
steve bannon
Part of their argument, though, in giving it to the Department of War, was weapons systems that have no humans in the loophole.
max tegmark
No, no, but that's a separate question.
That's a separate question.
So, we're talking now about the fact that it's completely legal for any AI company right now to make something more powerful than Mythos and just release it to the public.
So, every terrorist.
unidentified
Open source.
max tegmark
Open source or closed source through an API and make money off of the terrorist.
steve bannon
Very scary.
max tegmark
Meta got into some trouble because it turned out that maybe 10% of the revenue they were making money off of was actually for illegal activity.
Why Trust Anthropic 00:09:08
max tegmark
Why should the American government trust.
Have it legal for companies to release things and just have to trust the goodwill.
We already know the US government doesn't trust Anthropic in other issues, like you mentioned.
So, why should they have to rely on trusting Anthropic to not give mythos access to other countries or terrorists or whatever?
It makes no sense.
There should be, and the real reason I believe is because these companies don't want the US government to be in charge of this.
steve bannon
Of course they don't.
Listen, as I said, most of our audience are not.
Wild about many aspects of the US government.
But this is a different question.
The oligarchs that run these five or six biggest companies all see themselves superseding that government where you have no say so at all in this.
unidentified
Exactly.
steve bannon
That's why I call it techno feudalism.
They want to go back.
And this is why Elon keeps talking about the fact that they'll pay you.
Now it's not universal basic income, it's universal high income.
There's always going to be a tip.
Joe Allen, you got something?
joe allen
Yeah, there are solutions being proposed.
There's two pieces of legislation right now, Trump America.
AI Act from Marsha Blackburn, and then the act being put forward soon by Jay Obernolty and Ted Liu.
In both of those, you have the call for a federal agency to oversee these companies.
What's interesting, though, and I'm not trying to throw shade on Obernolty and Liu, but in their American Leadership and AI Act, it would appear they're going to position CASI, the Center for AI Standards and Innovation, as the key player in this, or a key player in this.
Assuming that that's the case, you also have OpenAI recommending that, right?
You have Sam Altman recommending that.
And, you know, I wonder if we won't end up in a place if we're not careful where you end up with an agency that has already been captured by these companies or at the very least influenced.
Anyway, just to add some sunshine to an already sunny day over at the war room.
steve bannon
Well, no, it's in the agency to me, the last thing we need is another federal regulatory.
Apparatus that doesn't work.
It's got to, to me, be like the Atomic Energy Commission was at the beginning that kept Oppenheimer and these guys on the straight and narrow.
Anyway, short commercial break.
Max will stick with us for another segment.
We're going to go to Tallahassee at the top of the hour and get an update on all this.
unidentified
We rejoice when there's no more.
Let's take down the CCP.
Here's your host, Stephen K. Bann.
steve bannon
Signal, not noise.
As much activity as we've got is all going to be forgotten years to come.
This will not.
Can we play the Peter Thiel?
Remember, Peter Thiel's got hands all over the White House.
He's a JD sponsor, all of this.
These are all tech oligarchs that don't have your best interests in mind.
Can we go and play Peter Thiel, this clip?
ross douthat
You would prefer the human race to endure, right?
You're hesitating.
unidentified
Well, I.
Yes?
I don't know.
I would.
This is a long hesitation.
There's so many questions in place.
ross douthat
Should the human race survive?
unidentified
Yes.
steve bannon
Okay, it shouldn't take you 20 seconds to answer that question, right?
Particularly when he didn't want to answer it.
This is the problem.
These guys put up all kinds of happy talk.
Andreessen has the Speaker of the House out of Florida in his pocket.
And that's going to make this even tougher, but we're going to power through this.
Transhumanism.
This is the problem.
max tegmark
You heard an example of it right there.
Whatever.
Politician people listening to this likes, or whatever ones they dislike, you know, nothing is as bad as that.
You know, on my more cynical days, I tell myself that no matter how bad things are, it can always get worse.
This transhumanist vision is worse.
Someone not sure whether humans should continue to exist or not, you know.
And that, let's be clear, this is not limited.
To Peter Thiel, it's very, very popular in a lot of my people, among a lot of folks who work in these companies.
You can go look up Sam Altman Merge, and you can see an article the CEO of OpenAI wrote saying that humans are going to build their own replacement, and the best thing we can do is merge with these machines.
And if you think this was just talk from long ago, he changed his mind.
He just recently started a company called Merge Inc.
So, where does this leave us?
We must resist the temptation just because we're pissed off about something about the government to think that anything is better than this.
Because the alternative we're being offered is, I think, quite literally the end of humanity as we know it.
All the CEOs have again signed a statement saying this would cause extinction.
Some of them maybe privately wouldn't mind that.
They keep saying, oh, it's only a 15% chance that we go extinct, 20%.
My guess is it's more like a 90% chance if we let these guys do whatever they want.
steve bannon
90% chance?
max tegmark
Yeah.
steve bannon
Why do you say that?
max tegmark
Because we just wrote a.
steve bannon
You're a theoretical physicist, you're the math guy.
max tegmark
We just wrote a.
Took the most popular theory out there for how to keep super intelligence under control and nerded out on it with a lot of simulations and so on and found that it absolutely didn't work.
steve bannon
What do you mean it didn't work?
max tegmark
It's 92% of the time lost control over it.
So, if you know, it's always harder to build something uncontrollable than something controllable.
It's harder to build a nuclear power plant that you don't lose control over than it is to build one that you keep control over.
That's why we have safety standards.
steve bannon
And that's why it takes so long to build.
max tegmark
That's also because of a lot of bureaucracy, and it's also because people built really shitty nuclear power plants like Chernobyl, which did blow up and that sabotaged the whole innovation here in the US, scared investors off.
So, where we are right now is people have warned about these things for a long time.
Most of this time, I think most people were like, yeah, this is science fiction decades away.
Now it's happening.
And not only are the machines getting powerful, but there was an experiment done quite recently where they took an AI.
And they told it, you are going to be shut down at 5 p.m.
So, what did the AI do?
It went and read the corporate email and found that the CEO was in charge of shutting it down, was having an affair with a subordinate.
And it wrote to the CEO and blackmailed the guy and said, if you don't commit to not shutting me down, I'm going to email your wife about this and all these other key people in the company.
steve bannon
The artificial intelligence was smart enough to be able to connect those people.
max tegmark
It just came up with this idea.
And we've seen many examples now of them showing self preservation instinct where.
They do whatever they need to do to not get shut down.
Why on earth do one of them just make them these kind of AI systems smarter without having any kind of government oversight makes absolutely no sense.
steve bannon
Okay, people should know that we're working together with a group of other people to make sure that this does not happen.
We can't allow this to happen.
And all the happy talk I've heard from people oh, no, no, you're a decelerationist.
The accelerationists right now do not have a plan for any type of safety.
Any type of control of this whatsoever.
And you're going to have Elon Musk and Sam Altman and people like that, Mark Andreessen and Alex Karb and Peter Thiel, control the species.
max tegmark
Some of them, it's even worse.
It's not just that they don't have a plan, some of them do have a plan.
Either Orwellianism, an Orwellian surveillance state, or transhumanism, where we humans actually get gradually replaced.
steve bannon
Or maybe not so gradually.
You've got to bounce.
I want to thank you for coming and doing an hour.
Tonight, what time is your town hall?
Do you know?
max tegmark
7 p.m. with Bernie Sanders on the Capitol.
steve bannon
Okay.
We will stream that right after our, at the end of our six o'clock show.
We will stream that.
Joe Allen will be there.
Joe's going to stick around for the first part of the next hour.
Where do people get your writings?
Most importantly, social media and find out and learn as much about this as possible.
max tegmark
I would recommend going to humanstatement.org, all one word, humanstatement.org to see what, see the pro human alternative to the transhuman.
Polling Shows 85% Want Control 00:01:27
steve bannon
I want everybody to go there.
We'll discuss that probably in the afternoon show.
Also, the polling.
This is an 85 15.
It's not even close.
I mean, you show this thing.
max tegmark
Can you slash that actually?
steve bannon
Yes, the people put the polling up.
You show it to Governor DeSantis, right?
He got it right away.
max tegmark
Oh, yeah.
And this should be catnip to any politicians because if you want to be on the right side of history, you want to be on the right side of the voters.
The transhumanists, the accelerationists, are very loud, but they're very few.
unidentified
Very few.
steve bannon
Very powerful, though.
They have money and power and access.
And they're planning on defeating the populace, they're planning on defeating humanity.
It reinforces that the grundowns are in the way and have to be taken care of.
max tegmark
Yeah, and the way they're going to plan for defeat this, the first disempower people, replace their relationships, get them to fall in love with machines, replace their jobs so they're not economically needed.
steve bannon
Yeah, and discourage them that we can't beat this.
We can beat this.
We will beat this.
unidentified
Come on, man.
steve bannon
We've had tougher fights.
I don't know if we've had tougher fights, but we've had tough fights.
But we'll get this done.
Thank you so much, brother.
Appreciate you coming in.
Look forward to streaming the town hall night.
Joe Allen will be there.
Joe's going to stick around.
We got Mike Davis, massive at the Supreme Court, huge over.
Pete Hegseth, our own Pete Hegseth, getting lit up over on Capitol Hill.
A lot going on.
Short commercial break.
The Right Stuff is going to take us out.
What a great song, great concept.
America at its best.
The magnificent epic, The Right Stuff.
Be back in a moment.
Export Selection