WarRoom Battleground EP 989: “Pope” Leo Is The Anti-Trump — So Catholics Will Need To Oppose Him In Order To Reverse The INVASION
Stephen K. Bannon, Frank Walker, and Jenny Holland argue that "Pope" Leo is an anti-Trump operative aligned with globalist enemies who opposes the existential war in Iran. They condemn US cardinals McElroy, Tobin, and Supic for defending this figure while accusing him of secular liberalism and failing to stop Iran's crackdown. Citing a deleted AI image of Trump as Jesus, they urge Catholics to oppose Leo's pacifism and support strong defense against theocratic aggression, framing the conflict as a spiritual battle requiring resistance to perceived Church corruption. [Automatically generated summary]
Hanwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room.
Well, we just heard in the two minutes of footage, the Cold Open, the throwdown, the feud between POTUS and the so-called Pope.
I'm going to devote the first full half of this show to discussing this and its implications.
Probably the most impactful thing on the relationship between the Catholic Church and.
A government, an administration, since we've been doing this show.
And I've got the two best analysts that I know of to help digest this, talk it through.
First, Frank Walker, ever present on Canon 212, really the trad Catholic response to Matt Drudge.
And Jenny Holland, who started off on this show as an agnostic, as an atheist, praying the rosary every day, and now a believer.
And I think that gives her a unique perspective too.
Frank, I'll start with you.
And I have to say that I'm glad that Pote has pushed back against Pope Leo on this, though I sort of feel that the precise comments that he used won't land with the primary audience that he was probably aiming for, which is Catholics who are open to what he is trying to do.
And I can say a bit more about that as we take the show forward.
But I'm very glad that he has pushed back.
And you can see the usual stick of increasingly political cardinals and indeed popes is they make political intervention.
And then when there's pushback, and it's not normally ever as strong as this, this is quite unprecedented in some ways, but when there's pushback, they say, we're not politicians.
We're just making an intervention on behalf of our.
Of our first principles.
And he even said, basically, after rolling the grenade in through the door and then running off, I don't want to debate with President Trump.
Well, I bet you don't, mate, because debate means analysis and questioning of assumptions.
And that's really what politics is about.
That's why a two party political system, either really in the UK or America, is so good at getting out both sides of the argument.
That might not be more than, they might not achieve anything more than that.
In terms of adding to the sum total of knowledge.
But at least we have the thesis and the antithesis, right?
People can look at that and decide which side lands with them.
So, and I will say what I think perhaps, if there's time, what I think perhaps President Trump might have considered in his response.
Because, and Jenny Holland's going to add something to this debate as well on the fact that there is a Catholic.
position in favour of this war in Iran.
But first of all, Frank, tell us basically, sketch out for us how this feud started.
I think fundamentally it started around Easter Sunday, right, with the Pope's remarks.
And then, of course, President Trump being President Trump, when there's an attack, he responds, and then the Pope responds, and then the President responds.
And we've been entertained by this Twitter feud, if I might call it that, on social media fundamentally.
Since then.
So bring us up to date with the latest exchange here between the Pope and the President.
It's been almost every single day Pope Leo will make an intervention against this war ever since it started back in February.
So, you know, from I know on Palm Sunday he did, he certainly used the Good Friday via crucis to make the same speech, always about war, always against war.
Always pacifist in his speech.
But I was surprised when Trump intervened because you remember the whole time that we had Francis, Francis was pretty direct occasionally.
He wasn't direct every single day like Leo is.
But he came to America and he said that Trump wasn't a Christian because of the way he handled illegal aliens.
But I mean, even back when Cardinal Supich was good, gave an award to Senator Dick Durbin for, even though he was a horrible pro.
Late term abortion guy.
Hope Leo defended him.
He said, You can't be pro life and be pro against illegal aliens or had this mistreatment of illegal aliens.
So he's been direct the entire time.
But what you mentioned, how there's this Twitter war.
And when you look at the trad Catholic press or the faithful Catholic press, I think it is faithful Catholic press, they are almost 100% against Trump.
In fact, they're targeting Trump directly and they're kid gloves with Pope Leo.
And that's the kind of thing that I think has really gotten Trump where he had to respond.
Now, this kind of a thing of Pope Leo, when he showed up a year ago, everybody was so excited about his manner.
And I was thinking, well, he's a gentle manner.
That's better than Francis.
But you can see it here.
How effective he is at doing what, like you said, I'm just preaching the gospel, man.
This is just the gospel.
And if you see the three cardinals on 60 Minutes, Cardinal Tobin, he says it doesn't really matter.
He wouldn't say anything about it if it wasn't important.
It must be important because he's speaking of God.
And that means all the political enemies, like you said, on the right, they're all evil and they have the church behind them.
This trick started back in Latin America.
You know, 40 years ago or so, there's a saint now that was the same kind of guy as Pope Leo, Francis's Saint Oscar Romero, who told the soldiers to lay down their arms against the communists in battle.
He did the same thing, except for in that small microcosm of what we have all over the world now today.
So, what you have is an operative, you know, David Axelrod, Obama's number one guy, was in the Vatican, and Leo put off the whole meeting with the Olympians for a half an hour so that he could meet with him and strategize.
This is the Obama Pope.
He's selected, just like Francis was, he's selected to be a political operative, not what a Pope would do.
Cardinal Tobin says whatever he says, it's important, but that's because it doesn't really matter whether it's Catholic or not.
The things that Leo says are not Catholic, which JD Vance has made very clear just lately.
If he were a Catholic Pope, he would not be doing political battle with Trump.
He would recognize that so much of what is part of Christianity is protected by the right.
What he's creating, he's giving us back the globalist enemies of Christ through this political, very effective, I think, political thing.
I don't know where Trump's going to go because his message was very strong, just like his message before the peace ceasefire a week ago.
But I do think he has some method to his madness.
And the fact that he's now singled out Leo for an adversary.
I don't think that necessarily people say, well, that's bad for Trump.
I don't think it necessarily will be because Trump is persistent and he may have some effect down the line.
Okay, so much in what you've said that I'd like to respond to.
I'll pick the first thing, though, and that's the response of Trad Inc., or even Catholic Inc., more generally, which has been appalling in one sense.
But like everything appalling, there is a silver lining on this particular cloud.
And that's this, right?
You cannot, and this is the point I would like the Warring Posse.
To draw from this feud, you cannot challenge a religious figure, a pseudo religious figure, on politics while still giving him or still recognizing that he has moral authority.
It won't work.
We'll talk about this a little later on the show, but you see this from Phoney Maloney.
And not only Phoney Maloney in Italy, also Matteo Salvini, her deputy prime minister.
They're separate parties.
But they both came out and said that you shouldn't really be, President Trump shouldn't really be attacking the Pope.
Given that, and this is why I would pick on some of the words that President Trump used in his response.
And I repeat, if you're just joining us now in the last 20 seconds, I am delighted President Trump has responded and pushed back with force.
I just think some of what he said was a little unfocused and allowed people.
To the easier way out of the veneer of obedience and sentimental respect for the institutional Catholic Church, where it's not appropriate here.
And people need to take a stand.
And this is the silver lining now.
This feud really is going to be a stumbling block, Toskandolon in Greek.
And you can look at that stumbling block and either, as in the New Testament, as in how St. Paul used it.
And trip over it and stumble on it, or you can find that a rock of your faith.
And what I mean by that is President Trump is pushing back against Pope Leo, also on the immigration front, hence the weak on crime accusation.
And we are each Catholics in public life basically now being invited to take a position because the invasion is an existential threat.
To all of these countries in the West, and as we'll talk about later on in the show, Frank, the 60 Minutes this is the preview, the 60 Minutes puff piece on the three probably arguably most important US cardinals.
The Pope, as that 60 Minutes segment makes clear, the Pope is now assuming the mantle of the global leader.
of the resistance, the pro-invasion resistance to President Trump and what President Trump is trying to do.
That's why we as Catholics need to take a stand.
You cannot, it is impossible, and Italy is a perfect example of this.
You cannot play nicey-nicey in the television cameras and say, oh, it's the Pope's untouchable.
He's like the Queen Mother, you can't attack the Pope.
You can't do that and at the same time fight hard against the political program.
That person is heading up won't work.
And that's why Italy's awash with the invasion right now, because Italian politicians have been weak in confronting the Catholic Church.
And so, Frank, I think that's the good thing, the beauty about the present situation, and how you see all these people who've been, they're being smoked out now.
Whether that was POTUS's. Intention or not, probably not.
But the fact that he decided he was going to push back against the Pope, all the hacks in Trad Inc. now are being smoked out.
And you can see the performative nature of their public positions in all its own glory, right?
Against Trump and against Catholics that recognize that Pope Leo is not Catholic.
He's not doing his job.
In fact, it's so sad.
Ever since Francis, the idea of you can't have a Catholic Pope.
Remember, we had Benedict step down during the Obama administration, and we had two popes.
Benedict even dressed like a Pope.
So you had un Catholic Pope and you had Catholic Pope.
This is not a normal situation.
So now you have all the cardinals that he made, and then you have Leo, and nobody.
In the entire world, the entire media, the entire Catholic intelligentsia will address it.
It's left only to Trump and today, JD Vance.
And it's good because, and it's not going to be good for the Leo church because just like in Latin America, they're going to hurt from this battle.
But the Catholics have abandoned the job and they've left it just to Trump to point out that Leo is not a Catholic.
And Tom Holman, you know, and today, JD Vance says, you know, I pay attention to, I'm careful about public policy.
I wish the Pope would be careful about.
Catholicism.
When he says something, it should be Catholic.
And everybody in the world can agree with that if they're faithful.
And so I agree with you.
This battle needs to happen.
It's too bad.
It's come this far.
And a powerful person like Trump needs to recognize that something has undermined the Catholic Church.
This Catholic Spring, this Axelrod and Obama in the Vatican, that thing needs to be corrected because the church has obviously lost the power and support that it had.
And you need to have the support of power, otherwise, you're going to be corrupted.
There's a corruption in the church that needs to be addressed by powerful people.
You said something at the beginning there, which is fantastic.
I'm going to come back to it just after a quick shout out to Birch Gold.
And then we'll be over to Jenny, who's going to sketch out the Catholic position on the war.
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Frank Walker, you just said something that made my glittering, cynical, beady eyes stare like a snake looking at a hungry snake looking at a fat mouse just waddling in front of him.
We should be making a list now on this.
We should be making a list of all the Trad Inc. attacks against protest.
Just as Laura Loomer, God bless her, said about six weeks ago, two months ago, she was keeping a book open of everyone in MAGA who wasn't supporting Israel.
Well, I think that everybody has missed the meaning of that tweet.
And then the tweet is not to be sacrilegious.
It's like he was tweeting back his image of Pope Leo, a guy who uses his holier than thou persona, because in Leo's case, it is sort of a persona because he doesn't teach Catholic things.
A holier than thou persona to say, I'm off limits.
You can't criticize me.
I think that was Trump's message.
He was saying, I'm going to be like Leo.
Look at me.
I'm being religious.
As if that the things that he does don't have any kind of moral value.
I mean, that was his message, but he deleted it, of course, because it was, you know, because people took it the wrong way as sacrilegious, but really it was, he didn't actually look like Jesus in the picture.
I think he probably deleted it because people around him are Catholic.
And that basically means, when I mean, say, people in public life who are Catholic, the people who will always crumple at the first sign of resistance, probably said to him, This is too scandalous, too blasphemous, you better put it down.
There was nothing in that.
As I say, I wouldn't have posted it, but I wouldn't have taken it down.
And I'm absolutely not going to parade my virtue signaling Catholic persona on social media, criticizing the president for having published it.
There was no actual, and it just shows you how little of Christian iconography half of the people promoting themselves on social media as Catholics understand.
There was nothing in there, nothing in there whatsoever identifiable or recognizable as Christ like in the way that the AI had conjured up the president.
Absolutely nothing, not the vestments, not the little.
Ball of light in the hand.
There's no paintings.
We've had Western classical art since the Renaissance, about 600, 700 years.
Not a single painting am I familiar with in that period of Catholic Christian iconography has ever depicted our Lord and Savior in that fashion.
It was just an AI conjuring.
Anyway, Jenny Holland, you did want to say something on this segment about the Catholic position in favour of the war.
There has finally been a public statement or public think piece on the justification for the war according to Catholic doctrine.
And it appeared in the free press, which cynics might say is convenient because I'm surmising that the free press, being very pro Israel, is also pro the Iran war.
But nonetheless, putting that aside, I've been wondering for quite a while now, not Just with the war in Iran, but in general, where is the sort of more muscular, less squishy liberal version of Catholicism and Christianity generally, in fact?
Because I mean, I'm and I am far from the expert on this, but I seem to remember growing up that there was this idea that you could go to war and it still be a just cause in terms of the faith.
And so it's a priest by the name of Gerald Murray.
Who is a father in a parish in Manhattan?
And he writes that Iran meets the criteria for a just war, which is defense, essentially, defending your own people and your own flock.
And he attributes this going all the way back to St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.
And he quotes from the Catechism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
And I'll read what that says.
It teaches that governments have the right to engage in, quote, legitimate defense by military force in response to aggression that is lasting, grave, and certain when all other means of putting an end to it have been shown to be impractical andor ineffective.
Now, I understand that there is a big debate raging among MAGA and other people as to whether Iran meets that criteria, but there is a legitimate argument to say that it does.
And I find it interesting that this argument is being put forth by some priest from Manhattan.
And not from the Pope himself.
I also would like to ask you guys or the audience Has Pope Leo condemned the Iranian government, now defunct, for the crackdown on its own people that left tens of thousands of Iranian citizens slaughtered?
And as far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, he really hasn't come out and spoken about how terrible war is in that regard.
Again, Iran is a theocracy.
And I do not, I am not a proponent of holy war in any circumstance.
But as the head of the Catholic Church and the billions of Catholics across the world, you would think that Leo might be a little bit more circumspect and not have this sort of liberal knee jerk reaction.
And he would have some understanding of these forces that are at play where a Christian, you know, Christian, Nation, the Christian West, is involved in a battle with a theocracy.
Now, I just find it very strange that that has not passed his lips.
I don't find it that strange because I understand the reality on the ground, but I note it, shall we say.
Well, I am not a neocon, but I am a flexible pragmatist.
And I do not have the same sort of deep qualms about the war in Iran, although I have qualms about war generally that many MAGA people do, primarily because I don't see Iran as the same as Iraq.
And I just think it's a different argument and it's a different situation.
I did note your, you know, the, The priest who wrote this piece, I'm not sure if you're more familiar with him than I am, but I want to reiterate I have been searching the internet and wondering why we don't hear more,
even if you detach it from the Iran specifics, why don't we hear more from the Catholic hierarchy about a robust defense of Western values and Western people and the safety of Western people?
I mean, this is something.
That we talk about all the time in regards to immigration and other moral issues.
It's like the foundations of the church, which when I was a kid, I perceived perhaps wrongly as being conservative, as in conserve your identity and conserve your nation.
Where has that gone?
And it has not come from Pope Leo, as you rightly point out.
It has come from Trump, as profane as he may be, but it does seem to be presented by this Father Murray.
Okay, so on to Father Murray's point, here's what I will say.
And I'll say it just openly that I'm against everything that the US has done from the 28th of February onwards, I'm pretty much against.
Here's what I will say.
However, in the debate, I think the.
And I thank you, Jenny, for coming on and making the pitch.
Here's how I think you can synthesize your position, and it needs to be made absolutely on this.
There is a tradition in the Catholic Church called just war theory, and it is open.
And I would say the application of those principles is a prudential issue that belongs to Catholics, Christians, all men and women of goodwill to decide for themselves. in the recesses of their own hearts,
informed by their conscience, and that conscience informed absolutely, I would hope, by the fullness of the teaching of the church through the ages on how to apply those principles to a specific case.
And I would have suggested an intelligent thing for any Christian to do would be to say that, as a Christian, that there are principles of just war.
And it belongs to each individual to work out for themselves in prayer whether any present situation satisfies those principles.
That's not what the Pope has done.
He's done his pseudo platitudes, his pseudo papal platitudes on peace, founded on the shoulders of international law, as he said explicitly in the Cold Open at the beginning of the show.
And that's what I find most offensive because if you really want, especially if you are Catholic, but not necessarily any Christian, believing Christian, if you want authentic peace in the world, then the only way to bring that about is via the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ Himself.
That's how you're going to have true Christian peace.
And that involves converting peoples, especially peoples who have different concepts of God.
And of course, it requires you to say that one culture.
Might be better than another, it requires you to say that one set of truth beliefs might be more true than another, and that's something that the modernists, the relativists who are modernists who are running the Catholic Church into the ground, will never do because fundamentally they don't believe not in Christianity, they believe in secular peace,
and that's what I found most offensive about the Pope putting on the vestments of religion.
Saying that he believes he's here to promote peace and the gospel, and he quotes the Beatitudes, but there's no reference of Christ in there.
In fact, we saw in an amazing juxtaposition provided to us by divine providence itself, we see pictures of the so called Pope going to the mosque in Algeria, taking his shoes off, bowing his head silent in prayer, saying it's a fit place of worship.
Let me just close off because I'm not sure if I was cut off before.
But you're right.
I mean, that is my point.
We are in agreement on that point that what Pope Leo says are liberal platitudes, modernist, secular liberal platitudes, and not Catholic teaching or doctrine.
And like we spoke about last week, I would prefer to see the full fat version.
If you're going to have it, have the full fat version.
And nor have I heard him say anything condemning the Iranian.
Regime now defunct for slaughtering its own citizens en masse several months ago.
So, yeah, I mean, I think on that point, Ben, we are definitely in agreement.
Now, you mentioned the phony Maloney, as you call her.
Yeah, so Phony Maloney, as you call her, and again, we will disagree on this because I am partial to her with caveats.
She has come out and said in defense of the Pope and called Trump's remarks unacceptable.
And anyone surprised by this is a bit like being surprised that a bear does number two in the woods.
They are Italians.
They are going to defend the Pope.
I feel like this is not really a newsworthy or like a particularly controversial take for her to have.
I remain a.
Defender of Maloney because I do think that although policy and effective governance, and maybe she's fallen down in those regards and in ways, I do think that robust and in your face messaging is still incredibly important.
And she has maintained that on issues that are very dear to me, including things like surrogacy and transing of minors.
So, I'm willing to give her some grace because also she is the head of the Italian government, which is like being a snake handler of like many bags of snakes.
I don't think there's a more complex country in Europe to rule over.
And I'm quite impressed by her public performance.
So, you know, while I understand that she is not 100% true blue, or I suppose red it would be, on her dealings with various issues, and she's fallen down in a few places, I will go to my grave.
Something of a fangirl of her because I think her PR is extremely strong.
And I don't think that's a shallow thing.
I think that's a very important thing.
It would be better if it was backed up by all of the policies.
I did another shout out, and then we're going to come to Frank and just quickly discuss the 60 minutes thing, because that is also quite indicative of what's going on.
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Denver, if you would kindly play the.
One minute clip from 60 Minutes to set Frank Walker up.
He started in January with a speech criticizing U.S. military action in Venezuela.
After that, the Vatican's ambassador in the U.S. was called to the Pentagon for a meeting, which two church officials described to 60 Minutes as unpleasant and contentious.
Since our visit, the Pope's tone has sharpened.
This past week, he issued a rare condemnation.
Of President Trump's threat to destroy Iranian civilization.
The Pope called it, truly unacceptable.
He also took the unusual step of issuing a call to action.
The Holy Father usually avoids calling out President Trump by name or any member of his administration.
But in a Palm Sunday homily, He appeared to reference the religious language Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who is Christian but not Catholic, often uses to frame the war.
Frank Walker, when I was a kid, I was told the most solemn form of instruction from the pontifical office was called a papal bull.
These days, I think papal bull is whatever a pope, inverted commas, will say in front of the telecameras and the old globalist slop.
Tell us now, because this is a theme that has run right through today's show, and it's setting up, in certain ways, ironic as they are, we are in a spiritual battle, but not in the way.
That people would necessarily expect it to be.
My impression of this 60 Minutes coronation crowning is that it's fake Pope Leo who's being crowned by the mainstream media as the leader, as I was saying earlier, of the globalist pro invasion resistance against POTUS.
And I think that's the setting up of this 60 Minutes program to do that, having the three cardinals, McElroy, Tobin and who was the third one?
Supic, three most senior US cardinals, to push so hard the invasion agenda.
I'm glad we have the opportunity just to say this, and that's exactly what the 60 Minutes program was doing because it illustrates the need why President Trump needed to take a firm position in opposition.
Well, that clip is just shocking that the Pope would actually tell Trump that his comments are unacceptable and tell people to call their congressmen and attack Hexa for reading the Bible and misquote the Bible to say that Jesus won't listen to you when you're pro war, his pacifism.
I think it's just, you know, and ordering to do a ceasefire, that is a strategic something that the military decides.
The Pope doesn't tell you that you have to do a ceasefire, that all your wars are always bad.
In fact, I think that what he's doing is making sure they always attack the Trump administration and any military, no matter whatsoever.
So that's why they've chosen that pacifism.
That reference to the contentious Pentagon meeting that they have in there, that's a lie that's not corroborated, that was shot down by the Vatican itself, that was invented by Chris Hale, who's an operative from the Obama administration, another connection to the Obama administration.
This meeting of the three cardinals, these are the three worst possible cardinals and also the most powerful ones in the American church.
Soup, it's the one from Chicago because the Chicago machine is Leo's thing, but that's why they're there.
And, you know, I mean, Cardinal McCarrick, one of the most, the greatest perverts of all time, he hand selected these three cardinals and they each touch on different things.
McElroy says that the war is unjust, but every time somebody confronts them, like you were talking about, Jenny, confronts someone, how was the war unjust?
They change the subject.
They don't really have any actual reason.
They have to misquote the Bible.
He says, well, it might be war after war after war.
He chose the war himself.
And Cardinal Supich just talks about the advertising from the military.
He says, it's disgusting to use war for entertainment.
And then Cardinal Tobin at the end, making his month, he's all about the illegals, more about the illegals.
They're making them have to lie about their identity.
I mean, why do they have to lie about their identity?
So the fact that they're even bringing this illegals up, which is not the topic that the church is on at the moment, shows you how much they're angry about the money, that money situation that they're losing on illegals.
That's why they had to come up with that 60 minutes piece there.
But it's just, you know, and they talk about what we've talked about here a lot the big growth.
In uh, and and uh, and Catholics, new Catholics, adult Catholics, and they admit they have no idea why they don't know why they think it's like we're a crisis of authority.
Well, I wonder how that happened.
They just want you to follow Leo, and they said they're doing a study to try to figure out why in the world are there more Catholics, and really, it's really not that many more than since the virus, it's not setting a huge record, it's not that many more.