WarRoom Battleground EP 948: Isabel Vaughan-Spruce In Court For Illegally Praying In Public And Apocalypse Director Simón Delacre
Isabel Vaughan-Spruce faces legal persecution for silently praying near UK abortion centers under new 2024 buffer zone laws, despite prior acquittals and support from Catholic bishops and even some pro-choice allies. Her faith-driven activism, including the March for Life UK (Sept. 5) and 40 Days for Life (starting Ash Wednesday), contrasts with Simón Delacre’s Apocalypse of Saint John, a film linking global crises—Gaza/Israel, Ukraine/Russia, gender ideology—to biblical prophecy as signs of Christ’s return. Delacre’s work, inspired by Catholic scholarship, frames chaos as divine order, appealing to traditional evangelicals and Gen Z revivalists amid perceived apostasy in the Church. Both stories underscore faith’s resilience against state hostility and cultural upheaval. [Automatically generated summary]
Yeah, so obviously there's only a limit to what I can say about this situation because it is still current and I'm waiting to go to trial.
Just to be clear, I wasn't arrested this time.
I have been charged but not arrested.
So I've been arrested twice in the past, but this time I was just sent the charge.
And obviously I'm charged with breaching the national buffer zone around the abortion center.
And I was standing silently, as you've said, near the abortion centre, just praying in my head, not interacting with anyone, not attempting to interact with anyone, no posters, no leaflets, just simply standing and silently praying.
And that's what I'm going to have to go to court for and face trial over.
I was first arrested back in 2022.
That was when I was charged with breaching a local buffer zone.
It's a little bit complicated.
There's two different laws that are operating here.
The first one that I was accused of breaching was a kind of local ordinance called a PSPO, which is a public space protection order.
That's when the local police and the local council work together and they create like a buffer zone around the abortion centre where certain behavior is prohibited, like protesting and forms of protest connected to abortion might be prohibited.
Obviously, I wasn't protesting.
I actually never protest outside abortion centers.
I was just silently praying in that area.
And I was arrested.
I went to court in 2023 and was completely acquitted.
A few weeks later, I went and stood on exactly the same spot and did, if you can say, did exactly the same thing.
I was just thinking in my head while standing there.
I was re-arrested by six police officers who took me away in a police van.
They told me that my prayers were an offence.
And again, I was charged, but that charge was dropped after six months.
But even after that, police continued to come out, gave me tickets, told me I was going to be fined.
And eventually, I made a claim against the police for wrongful arrest and false imprisonment.
And I was awarded an out-of-court settlement.
But now that we have national buffer zones, which came in on October 31st, 2024, that's what I've actually been charged with breaching.
That then, the national buffer zone.
So around every abortion centre in the country now, there is a 150-metre radius where certain actions are prohibited.
But I should be clear, it's still a public street.
Members of the public are there.
Often these streets are residential streets where people live in.
So, you know, people are allowed in these zones.
It's not like some sort of area where only that's private property.
It's still a public street and the public are still allowed on them.
And I believe as a member of the public, just because I'm a Christian or a Catholic or hold pro-life beliefs, that I should still be allowed inside this zone.
I noticed at the magistrates' court, you did say that you were simply praying to yourself in interior and dialogue with God.
What would have happened?
That's very that's very much taking a position.
On the one hand, that is exactly what the law would appear to prohibit.
But on the other hand, as your lawyer has cited, that would go pretty cleanly against the European Convention on Human Rights and the freedom of religion, freedom to express religion.
That's going to be an interesting challenge.
But can I ask you, why did you say at the magistrates' court that you were praying?
Why did you simply say you're just standing there thinking to yourself?
So, under the national buffer zones, I'm the first person to be charged with silently praying.
But I'm sure you're aware, under the PSPOs, we have Adam Smith Connor, who has actually been criminalised now simply for silently praying near an abortion centre.
He was praying for his deceased son, who was aborted.
And he was actually convicted in court.
That was under the local buffer zones, as well as Livia Tessici Bolt, who was just holding a sign that said, Here to talk if you want inside the buffer zone.
And she was also convicted.
And that, again, that was under the local buffer zone.
So we've already seen that happen.
We've got Rose Docherty up in Scotland, who again, like myself, is awaiting trial.
Rose was holding a poster in a buffer zone in Scotland that said, coercion is a crime, here to talk only if you want.
And she's having to go to court to defend that.
So, yeah, we're seeing a lot of Christians being taken to court, whether it's to do with their prayers or simply for offering to have a consensual conversation with people who might want to speak to them.
Yeah, I have to say, so I organise something called 40 Days for Life, which a lot of people might be familiar with in Birmingham.
So that's 40 days of prayer.
Obviously, at the moment, it's just outside the buffer zone.
We have a lot of priests who participate in that and have been really, really supportive and helpful towards myself.
So we have a rotor of priests, so that one priest goes every single day to pray as part of the 40 days for life.
So we feel really blessed here.
And as well, I have had bishops who've been very supportive towards me.
So I do feel that actually I've had a lot of support from the church and interestingly from people of very different beliefs as well.
So I've had a lot of people contacting me saying things like, I don't share your beliefs, but I think you should be able to pray.
Or, you know, I'm, I, well, they would describe themselves as being pro-choice.
That's not a term I would use, but they would call themselves pro-choice, but say, I still think that you should be able to, you know, silently pray on any public street you want.
So it's interesting to see how united actually people are in recognising that this is really an infringement on freedoms and is really serious discrimination.
I'm going to come back to you on that point in just a couple of moments.
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Isabel, tell me something about the reaction which you're just mentioning.
You said that the Catholic priests have been relatively supported.
I'd like to know whether any bishops themselves have come out and made a public affirmation of support to the stand that you're taking.
And I'd also like to hear something a bit about what you were saying that even people who don't agree with you on the pro-life agenda and to use the term would identify themselves as pro-choice,
that is a pro-abortion, even people in that camp will come out and say they actually think that the government is overstepping the bounds in a civil tolerant society by arresting you repeatedly and charging you for the simple false crime of standing in a public street and praying.
Tell me first about the bishop about the bishops because I do criticise on this show the bishops not only in the UK but in the United States quite a bit.
Have they reached out to you in private and have they made any affirmation of support publicly?
Yes, well, obviously anything private, I would think that's probably best that I keep private unless they've asked to be made public.
But the bishops of Scotland, for instance, they've made a public statement, a unified public statement about buffer zones, which can be found online, which I felt was a really good, strong statement.
And I know, as I say, bishops in England and Wales who've been very supportive.
Whether people have mentioned my name exactly, but I think a lot of them have really recognised the concerns there are about buffer zones and the infringement on freedoms.
So yeah, I do think on this issue that they are awake and they are concerned.
And I do feel like I've been supported by the church on this issue.
But I mean, with regards to what you were just sorry, carry on.
No, I was only going to just carry on to mention what you were just saying about, you know, support from people who've maybe had got different beliefs.
And that's not just here in England.
I've been really kind of overwhelmed by people in other countries who've got in contact.
And, you know, like I say, made a point of saying, well, they don't share my beliefs.
They do share my concerns.
And I think they're quite right to be concerned because if Christians are being discriminated now or, you know, or pro-lifers are being discriminated against at the moment, it could be anyone who falls foul of the popular ideology in the country.
And I think, you know, if we don't stand against it right from the start, then I think it, you know, it's certainly looking like it could get a lot worse.
What is there in your background that has given you the courage to publicly stand up and have the spiritual strength to challenge the system when so many of our fellow Catholics might agree with you in principle?
They might even agree in the idea that it's ridiculous and one should be able to pray outside an abortion clinic, but haven't actually made that step to do so.
How is it that you have found yourself in this position of, as we say, since they introduced the national buffer zones of being the first person to be charged under the present legislation, but also having repeatedly pushed up on the local council level?
What is it in your background that has given you this in terms of formation that has given you the strength to make this position?
Yeah, firstly, I wouldn't want it to look like I was speaking against other Catholics who are maybe doing different things.
I know some really good, strong Catholics and who've been very, very supportive to me.
But, you know, just speaking purely about myself and my own formation, I was brought up as a Catholic.
My dad's been dead for many years now, but I would like to credit him with helping to form me.
And as a Catholic, I believe he's still helping me from up there.
So yeah, I had a really strong Catholic father, which was a great guidance for me.
As a child, I know we had quite a big house that was up on the hills we lived.
And there was a local psychiatric hospital.
Well, it was more of a community where adults with severe psychiatric problems lived.
And it closed down and a lot of these people were sent to live out in the community.
And of course, they couldn't, you know, because they'd never lived out in society.
They'd always lived in this enclosed community.
And so my dad opened our home.
There were six of us children, but he opened our home to many of these people with severe mental health problems, bipolar or schizophrenia and things.
We were taught to call them the guests.
Some of them lived with us for weeks, some for years.
And I think it really taught me to value individuals for who they are rather than for what they can achieve or for their academic success.
And I think that was a real huge help in my upbringing.
And I hope that's kind of extended into my view of what pro-life really is, to really value each and every person for who they are, no matter what they may or may not achieve in life, just that value of being created in the image and likeness of God.
Did you ever think when you were younger that you would one day end up taking such a public position against the British state on this kind of issue?
Or did you sort of find yourself simply refusing to yield and refusing to bend?
And from the formation that you developed the faith that you had as a child growing up, that sort of kicked in and gave you the strength.
So actually, no, I'm not going to obey this.
I'm not going to do it.
I'm going to take a stand because it's the right thing to do without actually seeking, without deliberately saying, I'm going to make it, I'm going to find this issue and take a public stand.
Do you get what I'm saying here?
There are two ways here.
Did you say that you had, did you have the vocation?
Did you feel when you were younger that you're the sort of person who had a vocation to come and challenge the state on this kind of issue?
Or did it just sort of find you the issue and from inside you had the strength just to say, no, I'm not putting up on with this?
I guess firstly, I would say I'm not sure I describe myself as publicly challenging the state.
I just believe that I should be allowed to silently pray.
And I believe legally I am allowed to do that.
From when I was younger, my faith has always been of very much importance to me.
And I think my relationship with God has grown.
I believe that is something that isn't just something that affects certain aspects of my life or my private life.
My faith is everything to me.
I have a kind of a motto, if you like, that view every moment in the light of eternity.
And I think that kind of helps to guide my decisions.
That if I think, how will this decision look when I one day face to face with God, you know, over that table of, you know, on Judgment Day, what will the decisions I make look like then?
And I think that helps to kind of make me see the bigger picture of what's really important.
Obviously, like everyone else, I'm not saying I always get it right, but I think that's how I try and view things, you know, particularly maybe more critical decisions in my life.
And certainly that helps maybe guide me on the pro-life issue and issues maybe that might be considered to be slightly more challenging in today's society.
And if you could, because we're running up now to the very to the close of the show, I would really like to ask you what you meant by that and whether that's a teaching moment.
You said that you found that your faith has been deepened throughout the process of you showing your, I mean, I would say that you're showing witness to the kingdom of Jesus Christ, the superiority of the kingdom of Christ over the over the laws of men.
But what did you tell me just if you want to give me a minute or two about your actually that sensation of growing in faith, growing in intimacy with Christ because you have taken this position?
Yeah, again, just making it clear when I'm on the streets, I'm not necessarily making a public witness.
This is something I'm just privately thinking and my thoughts are turned towards God.
But yeah, I think in a way, you know, and many people before me have said that, haven't they?
That you know, with your faith, you can't stay stagnant.
You're either going backwards or you're going forwards.
And I think there's always that push to go forwards in your faith.
And a lot of the challenges and obstacles that come kind of help you recognize that you've got to keep pushing forward.
And they're always challenging you to get deeper and deeper.
And of course, that means sometimes that you might lose certain things in your life, whether, you know, whatever that might be, whether that's financially or acquaintances or prospects or whatever it might be for people.
But then you always gain so much more.
And that deepening of that relationship with God, for those who kind of experience that, they'll know that there's nothing that compares with that.
And in a way, the more that you abandon yourself to God, the more beautiful that that really does become.
Because, you know, in a way, then you feel you, well, you don't just feel you know that there's a certain detachment from other things.
And that is that is a real sense of freedom, you know.
And I guess this is what this whole thing is all about: about freedom, the freedom, you know, to be able to, in my case, silently pray.
And I think that freedom is really rooted in that abandonment to God.
Isabelle, I can only say what I said at the beginning of the show.
It's a real honor to have you on the show.
You probably don't think that you're offering heroic witness, but I think it's very fair for other people to say that about you if that's what they think.
And I absolutely do think that.
In the closing minute and a half, do you want to say a few words about the March for Life or 40 Days for Life or even the ADF that's providing the legal representation for you on these issues?
Well, we are living in very confusing times, very strange times, times of crisis, of great crisis.
And I believe people sense this and start thinking why things are happening, why everything seems to be so crazy with gender ideology, so much conflicts around the world.
We have the war in Gaza and Israel, the war, Ukraine, Russia, and there are much more conflicts, armed conflicts going around.
Not only that, but also the great confusion within the church, within Christianity, the great apostasy, I believe it's happening right now.
And that makes people think, what's going on?
Why so much chaos in life?
And people that turn to prophecies every time they hit a crisis like this.
And I thought it was very important to put out the good prophecy, the main prophecy in the Bible, that is Revelation, and give it, show it as it is in the Bible, described in the Bible, and also accompany it by an interpretation because Revelation is written mostly in symbols.
It's very symbolic.
When I first read it, I found it very confusing.
And that's when I started studying what it meant through great scholars and interpreters, mainly Catholic ones.
That's what I studied since I'm a Catholic, all of them deeply rooted in the fathers of the church, in the early fathers of the church.
And the idea was not only to show the visions of Revelation as they are, but also try to explain them.
Because if not, many times people only stay with the idea of fear and they think it's a scary book.
But if you see it with the right lens, you see that Revelation is actually a prophecy of the triumph of good over evil, of the second coming of Christ.
And it just gives to all these crises we are living today a new perspective.
It gives a perspective of hope.
That's the main goal of the movie and my main goal doing this film.
Why now?
I've been studying it for about 15 years.
The movie started to be produced five years ago.
And why now I think it's just Providence.
It already released in more than 20 countries across America with great success.
And why in America is just a matter of Providence.
As I was saying, this crisis is when you start studying the book of Revelation and all the prophecies, you find out that we are actually living the end times.
How long the end times are going to be, we don't know.
Jesus Christ Himself says that we cannot know the day or the hour, but he also says that we should be looking to the signs to know when the time is soon, when the time is near.
And that's what the movie does.
The movie takes the signs, tries to analyze them and explain them and contrast it with real life, actual life facts from our time, and try to discern if we are in fact living the end times.
That's quite an unusual way of seeing this because there's definitely an apostasy taking place in the Catholic Church right now that I think is undeniable, has been for quite a few decades.
And most people find the reality of looking at that apostasy, it harms their faith.
It makes belief more difficult when they're looking at an apostasy that's taking place right around them.
That's not the case then with you.
You're seeing the apostasy and you're actually finding that your faith is growing as you see that.
That's one of the things that led me to study Revelation.
I saw the church, the Catholic Church being infiltrated by modernism, by Freemasons.
And how can this be possible?
But when you go and study the prophecies and you see that all this was foretold, and not only was it foretold, but it was foretold with so many details.
It was foretold by Jesus Christ in Matthew 24.
It was foretold by the letters of Saint Paul.
And it is foretold in Revelation.
You have the false prophet, and you have all these signs that start to make sense on our reality.
That if you don't have the Bible, you don't have Revelation to turn to, it really just generates confusion and desperation.
So knowing the signs gives you this perspective I was talking about.
The second coming of Christ is close, and that for believers is a matter of comfort and hope and happiness in the midst of all this crisis.
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Back now to Simon de la Accra.
Simone, is that then one of the reasons why you actually made the film?
Because as a means of encouraging the brethren so that when they see this apostasy taking place, instead of becoming despondent, instead of becoming disillusioned, they actually think, hang on, this is all foretold.
And instead of their faith becoming under threat, it's actually strengthened.
That's the case for you and your studies of the book of Revelation.
And that's what you're trying to pass on to other people.
The harder things get, also that makes people rise and work harder.
Sanctity is stronger when things are more difficult.
If everything was easy, nothing is demanded from us.
Where's the merit, right?
So in this time of huge crisis, when one stands out and tries to be saint in the middle of all this apostasy, that gives a lot of merit.
And that is part of God's plan.
So studying Revelation, you see that all this chaos is not really chaos.
It's part of our plan, that God Is God of history and that everything is leading up to the second coming to the final victory?
So that way you getting encouraged.
I, for example, my mother was a pro-life activist here in Argentina all her life, and she always took us to the marches for life and everything here.
And everything seems so backwards because we got defeat after defeat in the fight for life.
And that is really discouraging.
But when you see that all this apostasy, not only of the church, but also of the nations, if you think that Argentina and most nations in Europe were Christian and today Christianity is being withdrawn from societies in all those nations, those nations became apostatates also.
And that's a sign of the close triumph of good over evil.
So that gives you hope and invites you to fight stronger, even though it may seem you're losing.
One of the interesting dynamics about this show, about the war room, is that pretty much all of the Catholics involved in it-Steve Bannon, myself, Jack Pisovic, we're all traditional Catholics.
And yet, most of a huge proportion of the audience, the war audience, are Bible-believing evangelicals.
And it's interesting to see the synthesis that's taking place right now between traditional Catholicism and conservative, biblically based evangelicalism.
Tell me something about the film that you've made.
You say that your formation is Catholic, and that's where you went to the church fathers as the source of inspiration for the film.
But tell me something about how evangelicals will react to this film and why they might be interested to come and see it.
Well, I think that Revelation has been for a long time in the hands of evangelicals.
For some reason, the church neglected preaching the second coming last centuries.
I don't know why that is, probably because of the apostasy.
But evangelicals, they never cease to preach the second coming.
They know and they understand that the second coming is close.
I think it's core in their preaching.
And they'll find that this movie is all about that, is trying to make inside the Catholic Church what they have been doing for years, just preach the second coming and announce it to everyone who wants to hear about it.
Just finally, with regards to America right now, there is somewhat of a revival that's taking place, not just in America, we're seeing it in the UK as well.
And on our Wednesday show, we're pointing out across continental Europe signs of this.
There seems to be a double movement taking place, specifically within the Catholic Church, but not exclusively.
Huge numbers of people are peeling away from the church in huge numbers.
It's like a ratio of perhaps one to 100, 1 to 1,000, because for every thousand people, every thousand persons who are leaving, one person is coming in.
But I want to say something about that one person who's coming in because this is really very interesting.
And that's what I mean when I say there's a double movement going on.
The guys, a lot of young men, a lot of 20-year-old men, and not just in the Catholic Church, also in the evangelical communities as well, are coming to the church for the first time.
Now, they're looking at Christianity for the first time.
Part of this is to do with social media and what's been happening over recent years.
Part of it's to do with the Trump resurgency, the Trump presidency.
Part of it's to do with the brutal assassination and public martyrdom of Charlie Kirk.
But these trends are coming together and there is a revival taking place.
How do you think?
Just give me, because we're coming up to the end of the show in a couple of moments.
Just tell me how, and I'm sure you've noticed this revival taking place as well.
Again, it's young 20-year-old guys, Generation Z.
And these people are on fire with the faith.
They are absolutely superb.
These are the kids that will have, say, sort of crusader icons on their social media avatars.
Tell me what they can sort of draw out from your film as they make their journey towards ever deeper faith with Jesus Christ.
Well, the movie tries to transmit the message through the study of the prophecies.
The message that God will not ask us an account of our victories, but he will ask us an account of our scarves.
So it's an invitation to fight the good fight.
I think they find it very encouraging, this movie, to that mean, to fight the good fight.
And also they will learn a lot about the history of everything, of Christianity from the first coming to the second coming, since the movie deals with the prophecy that is more historical, that leads, that is, in the words of St. Augustine, says that the prophecy of Revelation embraces all the time from the first coming of Christ to the second coming.
And this movie will help them see in that timeline from the first coming to the second coming where we are standing.
And since we are in the war room, one of the main aspects of war is knowing where you're standing in the face of your enemy to be able to give the battle.
So that's what the movie provides.
It gives you a perspective of where we are standing now related to the history of salvation and also invites you to fight and prepare for the prepare.
One invites one to prepare the kingdom of God and be waiting for the second coming, for the return of the king.
So Christ is king, and that's how we should live.
And that's how we should try to work to make our nations Christ-centered, recognizing that Christ is king and the king is returning.