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Dec. 6, 2025 - Bannon's War Room
47:43
WarRoom Battleground EP 905: White House: EU faces “civilizational erasure” within 20 years
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b
ben harnwell
22:52
r
roberto fiore
12:19
v
vadim derksen
10:03
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jake tapper
00:12
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steve bannon
00:46
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War Room.
jake tapper
Here's your host, Stephen K. Vance.
ben harnwell
Friday, 5th of December, Anno Domini, 2025.
Hanwell here at the helm at Steve Bannon's war room.
Well, today is really where we're going to live up to our motto of signal, not noise.
Something very important happened with the administration overnight, and we're now going to have a special, a Friday night special breaking this down.
That is, the Trump administration has published a U.S. national security strategy in which it suggests that the EU, continental Europe, is facing within the next 20 years civilizational erasure.
And why I say this is signal, not noise, because sometimes it's easy to get distracted by talking about, oh, look at Trump, he's worrying, he's paying attention to the gilding in the Oval Office and all the rest of building a ballroom and all the rest of it.
And these things are certainly taking place and taking energy.
This, what has happened today, this will fundamentally, if the administration shows the discipline to follow through on what's outlined in this document, this will change the debate fundamentally, not only obviously in the United States, but also, especially perhaps here in continental Europe, which this report outlines is a key strategic partner to the United States.
That's why it's so important.
That's why President Trump has published this strategic sort of review.
Therefore, to break this down, my first guest today, someone I've known for nearly 20 years, a former member of the European Parliament.
I knew him when he was an MEP in Brussels.
Now he's a lowly parliamentary assistant.
We worked very closely together in promoting the values of Christian civilization in the political sphere.
Roberto Fiore.
Welcome on to the show.
Now, Roberto, as I mentioned, was it?
Hi, hi, Roberto.
Roberto is a former member of the European Parliament, as I was saying, leader of Forza Nova, which is, and I'll say this for our American audience, it's positioned to the right of the Fratelli d'Italia, the brothers of Italy, which is the party of the Prime Minister, Giorgia Maloney, of which we have a lot to say frequently on this show.
So I think that's a reasonable description of Forza Nova.
Roberto, welcome onto the show.
Now, I know that this report is breaking waves in Europe because we spoke about it earlier on today.
Tell me, what was your reaction to this document?
And then I'm going to break down a little bit what's actually in it and why it will be of interest to the war room audience.
roberto fiore
Well, I think that this document is particularly important.
It's very topical because it touches two essential points.
One is immigration and the other one is the demographic collapse.
These things you can put them together, but you can also isolate them as issues.
And the demographic issue is something that has not started today.
In 1997, when our movement started, we issued eight points.
One of the points was demography.
We already saw then the development of a sort of a culture, of philosophy, but especially of a policy that was really targeting family as something obsolete that had to be overcome and it shouldn't be anymore the central point of society.
And as a part of that, to have more children was seen as a disgrace.
There was no premium or help to the families to have more children, help to the mothers, to, for instance, if they wanted to stay at home and take care of them.
No, it was forbidden to talk about a salary to the mothers.
Now the demographic issue has exploded and it's becoming something that everyone talks about it.
We can just say, okay, we said it before, but we think that we should do something now.
And what the administration has done yesterday, last night, is of fundamental importance because it highlights three points.
One, the demographic collapse.
Two, the incredible push also in Italy, because in Italy we're having 350,000 immigrants regular coming from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Africa, which is ridiculous.
No one understands what's the logic of it, but 350,000 every year.
And the third issue is the diminishing of the freedom of people to speak about things.
We have two laws, Mancino laws and Sherba laws, that are just there to hit people who say something that the establishment doesn't like.
And these two laws are alive and well with the Maloney government.
So this is the issue.
The people are going towards the traditional ideas that also the administration has pushed yesterday, that Vance talked about when he was in Munich.
All these things are widely accepted by the normal people in Italy, but the establishment is deaf.
ben harnwell
Okay, let me stop you on that point there.
Because as I say, we've known one another nearly 20 years and you've been pushing these themes before they became mainstream, as it were.
Let's put it like that.
And I can say we've first-hand experienced the attempts to silence you when you were in the European Parliament because of your consistency on these things.
And like on the demographic point, by the way, your contribution to Italy's demography is well known.
I think you have like a whole tribe of children.
How many kids do you have?
11. 11.
So that's your single-handed contribution to reversing the demographic ties.
unidentified
I cannot do it on my own.
I cannot do it on my own.
ben harnwell
Of course not.
Of course not.
You always have Esmeralda at your side.
So you've been pushing these issues before they were popular.
What I want to ask you, Roberto, and I'm very grateful that you've come on the show today, is it was easy for the European establishment in Brussels and also in Italy, even from supposedly right-wing groupings like the Flatelli d'Italia to isolate you and say this guy is an extremist, he doesn't represent anyone.
In fact, you've just had your full mandate that you've been pushing for decades, pretty much word for word endorsed by the Trump administration.
How important is this going to be to you making these arguments here in Italy and with your allied, because you're also president of the Alliance for Peace and Freedom, which is the European networking of allied movements across continental Europe.
How important do you think this is going to be?
Because this is what the administration has published with this national security strategy is what we've been crying out for, really, since Trump descended the golden escalator in 2015, which is a serious concerted sort of extension of help for what we're trying to do here in Europe and a massive sign of credibility and authority for the arguments that we've been making, right?
roberto fiore
This is it.
What is coming from America?
It's something that was fairly unexpected.
Okay, we saw things happening, we followed what happened, what's happening with the MAGA movement and so on.
But a so-stark pronunciation, a so-stark statement to talk about erasure of civilization, to talk about an imminent collapse of civilization is something very, very important.
Because first things the administration can say, look, we have done what we had the duty to do.
Okay, that's the first point.
Now it's for the politician to say, well, this is rubbish, or it's to say, well, this is true, we've got to do something.
Now I am the first one that can say easily and with some ideas to surround the entire opinion, that we can still do something.
The first thing I would say is especially connected to the role of women.
If the women have children, it's important that states help them to take care of children.
We cannot have women having one child or child and a half, then to go to work and then to have a nanny or a nurse to come to help the children.
It doesn't make any sense.
We need to have proper wages for the women in order to give strength to the family.
That's the first thing.
The other thing I would do, we have got a lot of Italians who are, for instance, in Venezuela who cannot stand Maduro, who want to come back.
We have got 2,200,000 Italians.
Well, we should tell me, come back here, because if the gap between birth and death is, like today, 370,000 births and 770,000 deaths, look, it's a disaster.
It just counted the years until the collapse.
So we've got to do something immediate.
The thing we can do immediately is to welcome the Italians.
We've got 100 million Italians in the world to welcome the Italian backs and not to have flux of people coming from Pakistani or Pakistan or Bangladesh, countries that have got nothing to do with Italy, to come in 100,000 every year.
This is just crazy.
And this is something that has been told very clearly by the Trump administration today.
ben harnwell
Roberto, stay with us.
I'm going to have a quick word mention of some of the show's sponsors.
When we come back after that, I am going to ask you for your take on what we were discussing this morning, which is the full frontal assault.
As you were saying at the beginning, Roberto, you were saying about JD Vance's speech to the Munich Security Conference.
Those themes are taken front and center in this 33-page document.
And it really does illustrate the degree to which the European Union as an institution is the key threat on Europeans, civil liberties, such as free speech, and what have you.
Roberta, I'll ask you if you'll take on that point as well.
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Okay, let's get back now to Roberto Fiore.
So I just want to quote Roberto something that is cited in this US national security strategy, which is something these strategies are saying that an administration will typically produce one every mandate.
So here is something, here's an extract.
Larger issues facing Europe include activities of the European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and sovereignty, migration policies that are transforming the continent and creating strife, censorship of free speech and suppression of political opposition, cratering birth rates and the loss of national identities and self-confidence.
This is pretty word perfect.
And typically for Donald Trump, it's saying what a lot of people are thinking, but few have the courage to say.
You've had the courage to say this for many years and now you've found that your sort of voice crying out in the wilderness has now been amplified somewhat by having these very thoughts picked up by the most economically military, culturally powerful nation on the planet.
Tell me about this point here about the European Union and other transnational bodies that undermine political liberty and sovereignty.
Because this is obviously a theme that you have some personal experience in combating.
roberto fiore
Vice President Vance said something very important about the attack to freedoms in the United Kingdom, the fact that anti-abortionist activists were taken into prison for having prayed outside, for having silently prayed outside abortion clinics.
Okay, this is something that obviously hit the imagination of many people.
People can't believe it.
But it's something happening.
And the two issues that are particularly relevant for the establishment that is trying to erase freedom are immigration and abortion.
In Italy has been particularly strong, the attack on the freedom to speak about immigration.
Because to say something about the flow of immigrants, to say something about the fact that the nature of the Italian people is changing, to say the fact that, for instance, in certain areas there is an arrogant group of people who actually make their own laws and push the Italian away from crucial areas near the stations or doing things like that, arrogant and violent.
To say these things, to denounce these things, you risk to have a case, to go to prison or to be sentenced.
Don't forget that in Italy, you have a system, basically you have an entire generation of magistrates or prosecutors that come from the extreme left and they are particularly concentrating in reducing the freedom of normal people, and especially of nationalists and patriots who actually believe that everyone should say what he thinks,
and the soul of the people, the freedom of the people in speaking the truth, or what they think is the truth, is essential to respect the freedom.
So Vance's speech in Munich and the declaration today of the administration are extremely relevant for us to fight this sort of Orwellian establishment that is taking over all over Western Europe.
ben harnwell
Roberto, we have about five minutes left of this And there is something I I really must ask you.
Let me quote again from this strategic review.
It says America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote this revival of spirit and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed gives cause for great optimism.
Now I want to inject a word of caution here because whilst there is definitely a patriotic sort of revival taking place, a nationalist revival taking place, what is also taking place on the back of that is a lot of performative theatrics from centre-right politicians who aren't even centre-right, their globalist uni party, pretending to be right-wing and centre-right, or even nationalist when they're not remotely.
It's just they're saying the words.
We know we see this every day here in Italy.
They say the words, but there's zero action behind that.
And I would obviously urge the Trump administration as it rolls through and following through on this agenda to be extremely cautious when it's talking about European allies because not everyone who schleps over to the White House is an ally of President Trump or his agenda.
There are two things in this report I think that make that absolutely clear and that's the relationship with Russia and the war in Ukraine.
And I know I think pretty much Fort Sanrova is probably the only political party on the right that has a coherent view on both of these.
Would you just sort of, to our American, a largely American audience, Roberto, would you just say what your view is regarding to what Fort Sanrova's view is with regards to the war in Ukraine, which you've maintained right from the beginning, and also the appropriate relationship that Italy and all Western countries like the UK and America as well should try to pursue with Russia?
roberto fiore
Since the beginning, we have taken a very clear line.
There should be no war, no brothers' wars, because those people are brothers, Ukrainians and Russians.
You could argue that Ukrainians are Russian.
You say no, maybe they are not Russia, but they're still they're brothers.
And that war has been engineered in certain circles in Europe and I'm afraid to say into the Biden circle.
The administration and the Secretary of State before at the time of Biden Nulan had very much to do with the beginning of the war in that area.
We think that Russia plays a prominent role.
Russia is not anymore a Marxist country.
Russia is a Christian Orthodox and nationalist country that should be part of Europe.
This is the essential point.
It's a very simple change of how can I say change of actors.
Europe can be strong again with Russia that not just European Russia.
I wouldn't define or wouldn't divide Russia into Asiatic and European.
We should consider Russia until the bearing the bearing point near near you, near Alaska.
So Europe has to be part of the same continent of Russia and Ukraine.
So this is the starting point.
There is no point in buying a huge amount of weapons to have an escalation in towards a war.
There is no point in having that.
We should have a policy of peace to have Christianity Christendom, I would say more than that.
Christendom at the center of the policy, which is something that has been avoided since 1945.
Since 1945, the establishment has going towards a sort of liberal position that undermines tradition, family, God, and so on.
Now there is a revival of these points, and the end of the road is going to be a Christian Europe that starts from Portugal and ends up to Alaska, obviously, not including Alaska, but until that point.
So, this is the major change that is taking place.
And it seems to me that the American administration is taking the point and is actually destroying in this way the sort of liberal, how can I say, the liberal fortress that had New York at its center, that had the sort of liberal Americanism at its center.
Well, this is not anymore the case.
America has changed, and Europe has to follow very quickly.
Otherwise, we are going to go to self-destruction.
ben harnwell
Roberto, I'm very, very delighted that you've come on to the show today.
And now that the administration is leading the way on this point, and I particularly look, this is one of the most important documents I've seen come out of either the Trump administrations.
And what is so key about it is, even when talking about the decline in the European Union, it's this strategy here is identifying the cultural aspects as being more important than the economic aspects, which is absolutely spot on.
unidentified
And this is going to give a great help.
ben harnwell
This is going to give a great help, Roberto.
I think it's a cultural revolution, a correction, a cultural correction.
In the meantime, Roberto, before we get to bring you back on the show, where do people go in social media to learn more about Fortune Nova and the Alliance for Peace and Freedom and keep up with your activities on the Italian political scene, which I can't compliment more highly enough?
roberto fiore
Well, I have to say that Mr. Zuckenberg and others have sort of erased us from the social community.
We haven't got, we can't have any more.
This is part of the infringement of our liberties.
We haven't got any more Facebook.
It's prohibited to us.
We have got very little in terms of social.
We got Telegram, we got Instagram, we got for Fahrenheit, we got more presence because it's not called Fortsanova.
But the situation is basically the address you have been given before, which is Fahrenheit, which is our journal, online journal, which is continually following what is happening in America quite closely.
And Telegram and Instagram for regards for Sanova.
ben harnwell
That's Telegram Forza, Noova, FN and Roberto Fiore underscore FN.
I'm going to get those out on social media as well.
Roberto, thanks for coming on the show.
Very grateful for your time.
We'll catch up again with you soon.
Folks, we'll be back in two minutes after this short break.
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ben harnwell
Welcome back.
Well, my guest for the second half of this show is Vadim Dirksen, who's the senior editor of Junger Freiheit, a newspaper very much in the AFD Ambit.
And we've had Vadim on the show before, and we wanted to talk to him.
We wanted to bring him back on and talk to him about these protests that have broken out in Germany just a couple of days ago.
Before we do that, Vadim, I'd like to ask you for your take on this strategic report that came out from the US administration overnight, indicating that Europe is 20 years away from civilizational erasure.
This is obviously something that the AFD have also been saying.
But give me your take on this.
Will the fact that the administration has pushed out this document, which is something we desperately wanted to see from them, from the administration on this side of the Atlantic, the fact that they've taken this theme and pushed this out, do you think is this going to help what we're doing here in continental Europe?
vadim derksen
Absolutely.
I hope this is actually a wake-up call for the politicians who are in charge right now in Germany.
I hope it's going to help the right-wing parties in Europe, particularly, to push the agenda towards a more right and conservative politic agenda in Germany and all the other countries in Europe.
We see a massive decline in birth rates in the, let's say, in the original population in Germany.
We have a massive migration crisis still going on, which is basically replacing the majority population here in Germany.
And we need to stop that.
We need to get a right, maybe a wake-up call even from the US president here in Europe.
ben harnwell
And it's very much, obviously, President Trump is putting his name to this, but it's very much, I think, a reiteration of the themes that Vice President JD Vance issued in the Munich Security Conference, which really shocked, I think, the European Union as an institution, that the administration, the US administration, was actually going to be concentrating on this.
And this strategic document has very much institutionalized now those concerns.
And I think, you know, I can't thank as someone who's been pushing this on this side of the Atlantic.
I cannot thank the administration more for than what they've done pushing out this document.
It is one of the most important things I've seen.
vadim derksen
Basically, I think that the old politician elite in Europe, the old elite, is not used to these harsh words, which are now taking place from the US administration, as you mentioned, also JD bands and so on.
They're not used to these stark words used against them.
And I hope that will shake them up and move to some changes in the politics.
Well, we see a decline of the old parties in the last polls, also in Germany.
AFD is building up a bigger gap between the ruling party of the CDU, of Mertz.
So the people are fed up with the empty words, empty promises they see here constantly and Lies, like lies, not just empty promises, but they lie their people into their face.
Um, and this is something what needs to end because we have a big issue.
Our industry is going down, we have high energy prices, we have a crisis in the country where the people are very depressed, and we need to change that.
ben harnwell
Yeah, um, I think one of the consequences of this strategic review is that it's going to be much more difficult for the German state to suppress the AFD as it tried to do with the AFD's youth wing.
Uh, and that's the point, you know, let's use that now as an opportunity to move on to that.
Um, so what happened in Gießen just a few days ago was that demonstrators, as the new revived, resurrected youth wing of the AFD was being launched, the left had organized these protests which blocked, I think, 16 points of entry, 16 streets to the conference venue, where they were expecting some 50,000 AFD youth to join.
Vadim, by the way, by the way, shutting down a city like that by blocking the 16 main archeries.
And as far as I'm concerned, that is something that a loose alliance called Resist would not be able to do by itself.
I would suggest, though I don't have hard evidence for it, that the German state, the intelligence services, were infiltrating and assisting in the shutdown.
Before you take off on that point, let's just look at some of the views of what was happening, and I'll come back and check your reaction.
unidentified
Thousands of demonstrators gathered in the German city of Gießen to protest against the launch of a new youth organization of the far-right Alternative for Germany party, also known as the AFD.
Groups of protesters blocked or tried to block roads in and around the city, delaying the arrival of many delegates to the convention center.
As a result, the event had to be postponed by a few hours.
ben harnwell
So tell me, Vadim, was this something that was loosely organized by an association of the left political groups, or do you think it was more centrally coordinated?
vadim derksen
Let me get you the whole picture of that first.
The last time we had a demonstration of this magnitude was perhaps at the party conference of the AFD in Stuttgart 10 years ago.
And the protests actually have declined in the recent years.
They peaked maybe in the protests surrounding the so-called Potsdam secret meeting just under three years ago.
But this time we witnessed a perfectly organized protest or action.
There was massive mobilization.
Bus troops were paid from all major cities in Germany.
Students groups have been calling for people to join in WhatsApp groups for weeks.
They themselves announced up to 50,000 demonstrators.
In the end, there were only 25,000, but they were all even more motivated to prevent the founding Congress of the AFD's youth organization.
On site, the protests was organized in such a way that all the routes, as you mentioned before, to the hall were blocked.
This was done through sit-in blockades, barricades made of tree trunks or torn-out street signs.
I was there, I was witnessing it, how it worked, and I was wondering why even these tree trunks were placed there prior a few days, maybe a few weeks.
We were told they were just placed there a few weeks on strategic points of the roads.
As we, as journalists, we were well informed about the location of the next blockade through the Antifa telegram groups.
So they were organized in Telegram groups.
And as a result, we arrived even before the police to these blocks.
This also shows that the police were completely overwhelmed by the protests, although they actually expected more people to come.
So one question which rises now is: was there not enough police?
Or was it maybe planned to give it a loose and let the people protect it?
ben harnwell
Vadim, just very quickly, what do you mean by that?
That they expected more people to come.
You mean they expected more counter-protesters to try to shoot what you're doing now?
Yes, right?
vadim derksen
Because the protesters, they said that they expect about 50,000 people to arrive in Gießen.
In the end, the police counted about 25,000.
We had like the protest groups, they can be divided into different camps, let's say.
The ordinary left-wing students or some union members or groups such as grandmas against the right.
And this is the so-called middle-class section.
They were predominantly white and affluent middle class.
Then there were this hard violent core who used violence at the slightest protest against it.
So they were mostly completely masked with backlobovers and distinctive colors like purple or black, so they could quickly identify each other.
And as soon as there was some riots going on or they identified someone from the AFD, they just surrounded him, beat him up, or just pushed him out of the group or whatever, like this.
ben harnwell
Yeah.
I'm going to come back to you in two minutes.
I'm going to come back to you in two minutes, Vadim, and ask you about the Bundestag deputy Janine Wiesla from the left, saying that the AFD is not a normal party and what is intended by that kind of criticism.
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Back now to Vadim Dirksen.
Vadim, we've got about five minutes left of the show.
Just tell me if you wouldn't mind about this, what this left-wing member of parliament, Janina Wissle, said.
When she's saying that the AFD is not a normal party and therefore justifying the suppression of AFD youth to be able to get together and have a Congress, what is she really signaling by that?
Is it not the case that she's joining in with certain calls that German intelligence and the German state and the courts should suppress the AFD totally?
Is that not the scope?
And is that not fascist?
vadim derksen
Well, this is the point.
Do you know what the left party is in Germany?
The left party, which she's a member of, it is the successor party of the SED party, which ruled in the GDR.
These are communists.
And this party now sits in the parliament on the far left side.
And they are the ones who cooperate with the CDU and Mertz.
Like today, today they even helped to get pass a law with the help of the left party.
Mertz made this law pass.
And imagine just how the political compass in the country has shifted to the left.
Mertz is more willing to work with the GDR party than with the AFD, which actually consists of former CDU members.
And of course, for this kind of leftist communist party member, the AFD is not a normal party.
We know that.
And from the history, they are used to put their political opponents into prison, even to kill them.
So no wonder she's talking as she's talking right now.
ben harnwell
This is really why at this time, the US national security strategy is so important, right?
Because Mertz might be trying to work with the German state, with the German judiciary to suppress the AFD, which is what they were trying to do, right?
Up until recently.
They were trying to suppress totally one of the largest political parties in Germany.
Do you think now that this national security strategy indicates to the German state exactly that the US administration is watching what's going on and dropping the situation about NATO, the future of NATO there, which the strategy does do, to try to let the German state not go too far in these total terms?
Absolutely, absolutely against the AFD.
vadim derksen
Absolutely.
You're right.
We have a country in a situation which is dangerous for the allies at this point.
I would say on many levels, we have security problems as a member of the NATO.
We have not a strong army because we have such a war against our military inside of our country.
Then we have a mass impact on German citizenship or we give it out to migrants which came into the country maybe a few years ago and we are throwing away the German citizenship, which is one of the strongest in the world.
If you have the German citizenship, you can travel in one of the most countries without any visa.
So this is also a security issue for all the partner countries where we can travel visa-free as and also to the United States.
So this is an actual threat to the international community, which is Germany part of the Western community.
And we have to be thankful to Trump and the administration that they are pointing on these issues and bringing them up.
I hope this is going to change as quickly as possible.
And we have a shift back to the normal, not to the right, but to the normal.
That's what the people think is normal should be, again, the policy of this country.
ben harnwell
Just in the final two minutes of the show, could you give me 60 seconds and just explain very quickly what the issue was with the AFD youth wing?
Why the switch of parties?
What that was about?
vadim derksen
Why they had to reorganize the youth?
The problem is the youth was organized as a separate organization.
It was not connected to the party itself.
So you could become easily a member of the youth organization, but not being a youth member, being a member of the party.
That means the party itself could not control which people, what people, what kind of people would enter the youth organization, but still the youth organization had influence on the party.
And this is something messed up.
So now what they changed is that every youth member of or the member of the youth organization has to be member of the party.
And there's a big control.
The problem is our rules regarding the parties.
Not everyone can enter the, it's easy to get into the party, but it's very hard to get someone who is extreme out of the party by law.
So you have to be very careful to see what kind of people you bring in in order to make sure that they don't cause any problems.
If they're too extremist and so on, or maybe even from the government, let's say Fed, if there's somebody, you cannot get them easily out.
ben harnwell
That's the thing.
I'm glad you've outlined that because I've read different explanations in the press and I just wanted to hear it from you what the issue was.
Fadim Dirksen, thanks as always for coming on the show.
Senior editor of Junger Freiheit, where can people go on the internet to keep up with the superb work that you're publishing out there?
vadim derksen
JungerFreiheit.de.
This is our website and you find me on socials like X at RealDirksen.
Yeah, that's it.
ben harnwell
That's perfect.
And the internet is obviously, you can follow those articles.
Click on the translation button on your browser and just follow everything.
Very few Western or English-speaking journals are going to explain to you exactly how things are.
Vadim Dirksen, very grateful as always that you came on to the show to explain what these protests were all about.
We'll catch up again with you soon.
Um, folks, that it that's the end of the show.
All we have time for today.
We'll be back, uh, I'll be back on Wednesday, God willing, with our Christian roundup back on Friday for the in-depth interview.
That uh leads me to thank Will and his superb team, as always, in Denver, Real America's Voice, and of course, Vittorio Franke, who's helping behind the scenes put this show together.
Thanks to you both very much indeed.
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